American Airlines is the US airline that I fly most, given that I live in Miami. I’ll be the first to admit that I sometimes give American Airlines a hard time, though that doesn’t mean I think the airline is terrible. While there are a lot of areas where American can improve, there are also areas where the airline does well.
In the spirit of positive reinforcement, in this post I wanted to share 11 things that I think American Airlines does well. In separate posts, I’m taking an updated look at the things that Delta Air Lines and United Airlines do well, as well as my least favorite things about the “big three” US carriers.
In no particular order, below is what I like about American Airlines…
In this post:
AAdvantage Loyalty Points system
Nowadays American AAdvantage elite status is based on the Loyalty Points concept. As I’ve explained, this program is absolutely brilliant, even if it doesn’t work great for me. You can earn elite status entirely through credit card spending, if you’d like, and can also qualify for Loyalty Point Rewards that way.
While I think there’s less value to having elite status than in the past (given how tough upgrades are to come by), I’d argue that among the “big three” US carriers, AAdvantage status is the combination of easiest to earn and most valuable.
International lounge access
American Airlines offers excellent Flagship Lounges in Chicago, Dallas, Los Angeles, and Miami, along with the Greenwich Lounge New York (the same concept, but a joint venture with British Airways). These are the best easily accessible international airline lounges offered by any US airline.
In line with oneworld lounge access policies, these lounges can be accessed by oneworld Sapphire and Emerald members traveling internationally, as well as all oneworld first and business class passengers. As a point of comparison:
- Delta Sky Clubs are superior for domestic lounges, but Delta doesn’t yet have any special international lounges (that should change as of the summer of 2024), and for that matter Sky Clubs have serious crowding issues
- United Polaris Lounges are superior to Flagship Lounges, but are only accessible by international business class passengers, and no elite status will get you into those lounges
So there’s something to be said for American having very nice lounges that are also easily accessible.
oneworld Emerald status
It’s not that American deserves full credit for this, since it’s more about the alliance than American. However, oneworld Emerald status is my favorite alliance status that exists, and I love the lounges it gets me access to. From the Cathay Pacific First Lounge Hong Kong, to the Japan Airlines First Lounge Tokyo, to the Qantas First Lounge Los Angeles, I pinch myself every time I get to use one of these lounges when not flying first class.
Other alliances don’t have an elite tier that can compete. While Star Alliance Gold status is useful as well, it’s not nearly as valuable.
Flagship First Dining
American offers amazing Flagship First Dining facilities in Dallas and Miami, along with the Chelsea Lounge New York (which is the same concept, but a joint venture with British Airways). These are private, gorgeous spaces with a la carte dining. The food and service are generally quite good, but more than anything, I just appreciate how tranquil these facilities are. These are among the best lounge spaces you’ll find in the United States.
Flagship First Dining is open to “premium” first class customers, traveling either on Boeing 777-300ERs or Airbus A321Ts. Now, it’s anyone’s guess what the future holds for these facilities, given that American is expected to eliminate international first class within the next year or so. I suspect American will maintain these facilities, but just switch up access requirements, but who knows. In the meantime, I’ll continue to enjoy them when I have access.
International business class seats
While not particularly flashy, I’d say that on balance American has the best and most consistent international business class seats of the “big three” US airlines. American’s wide body fleet consists exclusively of Boeing 777s and Boeing 787s, and all of those planes have fully flat beds with direct aisle access.
To compare this to Delta and United:
- Delta’s most common wide body aircraft is the Boeing 767, and those have a not-great business class product, with extremely narrow seats and many with outdated interiors; Delta also has ex-LATAM Airbus A350s, which don’t even have direct aisle access in business class
- United has now completed its Polaris business class retrofit project, so you’ll find Polaris seats on all 787s and 767s, and on most 777s; however, the airline also flies 757s on long haul flights, and some 777s don’t have Polaris seats (they’re used primarily for domestic flights)
American is the only one of the “big three” US airlines where you’re guaranteed direct aisle access in business class when on a long haul, international flight. And while American’s long haul network might not impress, that’s at least a nice guarantee.
High speed Wi-Fi
American has a great overall Wi-Fi offering in terms of quality, but no in terms of price. The airline has Viasat Wi-Fi on a vast majority of its narrow body aircraft, which is among the best you’ll find in the industry.
Now, this isn’t quite the competitive advantage it used to be. At this point, Delta offers free Wi-Fi for all SkyMiles members on most routes. That’s definitely going to have more appeal to more people. However, with the number of people using Delta’s Wi-Fi (since it’s free), I do find speeds to be a bit better on American.
So if you value being able to stay productive and appreciate solid Wi-Fi speeds, I think American remains the best with inflight Wi-Fi. Certainly both American and Delta beat United by a long shot in this regard.
Citi AAdvantage Executive Card
The Citi® / AAdvantage® Executive World Elite Mastercard® (review) is my favorite airline co-brand credit card. Unfortunately this card isn’t as generous as it used to be, but there’s still a lot of value to having it. The card has a $595 annual fee, and offers all kinds of great perks.
For one, the card comes with an Admirals Club membership for the primary cardmember. On top of that, you can add up to three authorized users to the card for a total of $175, and they each receive Admirals Club access as well. In other words, you can get authorized users Admirals Club access for an average of under $60 each. If you fly American frequently, I find that this is quite easy to justify.
Valuable partner award tickets
Among the “big three” US airlines, American AAdvantage is the only program that offers some industry-leading partner award redemption values. To be clear, I’m not suggesting that all AAdvantage awards are an amazing value, but American has some real sweet spots.
In particular, being able to fly from the United States to the Middle East, India, Africa, etc., on Qatar Airways and Etihad Airways, is an amazing value. These awards cost 70,000-75,000 miles one-way in business class, and you won’t find a better value for these kinds of awards through other programs.
Award availability can be tough to come by, though there are plenty of people who have success redeeming AAdvantage miles for great value. American at least intends to offer good value on partner awards.
Meanwhile to compare that to other programs:
- Delta SkyMiles really offers little value for partner redemptions when originating in the United States, not to mention partner award availability is limited
- While United MileagePlus has some okay partner award redemption values, you’ll almost always get a better deal through Air Canada Aeroplan or Avianca LifeMiles
Wide body planes on domestic flights
More so than at Delta and United, American operates a good number of internationally configured planes on domestic flights. This means that you can score a flat bed even in markets that aren’t typically considered “premium” markets.
For example, I live in Miami, and it’s common to see American flying wide body aircraft to just about all hubs from here. Being able to get flat beds on routes like this is pretty awesome.
Transcon product & upgrades
In terms of the overall value to frequent flyers, American has the best transcon product of the “big three” US airlines. American flies specially configured Airbus A321Ts with just 102 seats, including three classes of service. Generally speaking:
- Upgrades are reasonably easy, since you have 30 premium seats and only 72 economy seats
- Business class passengers get access to the American Flagship Lounge Los Angeles and Greenwich Lounge New York, while first class passengers get access to the Chelsea Lounge New York (meanwhile at United, premium transcon passengers don’t get Polaris Lounge access, and Delta doesn’t yet have premium international lounges)
- Elite members are eligible for complimentary upgrades on these routes at their normal upgrade window, unlike at Delta and United (at United they’re not eligible at all, while at Delta they’re only eligible day of departure)
Admittedly American is expected to reconfigure these planes within the next year, and also eliminate first class on transcontinental routes (and instead offer business class as the highest cabin). However, these planes should be replaced by jets with an even better product (possibly Airbus A321XLRs).
Improved operational reliability
American has made massive improvements when it comes to operational reliability in the past couple of years. Historically, the biggest issue with being an American frequent flyer was just how unreliable the airline was, in ways that largely seemed avoidable.
American has emerged from the pandemic much more reliable than it was before. Now, I wouldn’t say this is a competitive advantage compared to Delta and United, but rather I think Delta’s operational lead has largely been eliminated. While it might not be all that exciting to step on an American plane, at least you know you’ll get where you’re going in a timely fashion… usually.
Bottom line
While American Airlines has its fair share of weaknesses, the airline also does many things well. The airline has solid operational performance, a competitive long haul business class product, a good frequent flyer program, an impressive array of lounges, and high speed Wi-Fi.
I’m curious to hear what OMAAT readers think — what do you think American Airlines does well?
Can you imagine if they invested in their employees like Delta does? American could be a true contender in the industry. For now, they are cemented in the idea of being the nicest US low cost carrier.
New leadership is needed to revert them to their glory days.
I prefer flying DL but since I’m a points and miles junkie, AA is the only choice. I also seem to get domestic upgrades about 80 percent of the time as a platinum pro, flying mostly between LGA or BDL and DCA.
I enjoy a lie flat seat on a 12+ hr flight. I’m not looking for anything luxurious . American gives me those opportunities to upgrade. The one world lounges are really enjoyable.
Thank you for this series of articles, "X things that ABC does well" -- I love it. Keep it up!
The loyalty point system is what I like the most. I no longer have to worry about falling just short of a goal for the next status tier because there are so many ways to easily make up the necessary points. And I do a lot of regional flights to small airports, and those routes have seemed to have a good chance of first class upgrades clearing.
I've noticed in my travels that AA flyers are a cut below DL and UA flyers in socioeconomic class. I'm of course over-generalizing and there are surely respectable, high-end professionals who fly or even prefer to fly AA.
But if you look at where AA's fortress hubs are -- Dallas, Charlotte, Philly -- these are all second- or third-class cities at best. Who lives in these cities? People who couldn't make it in their careers...
I've noticed in my travels that AA flyers are a cut below DL and UA flyers in socioeconomic class. I'm of course over-generalizing and there are surely respectable, high-end professionals who fly or even prefer to fly AA.
But if you look at where AA's fortress hubs are -- Dallas, Charlotte, Philly -- these are all second- or third-class cities at best. Who lives in these cities? People who couldn't make it in their careers to live/work in top markets like New York or San Francisco. Everybody I know in these top markets prefers to fly DL or UA.
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yoloswag420 Guest
April 11, 2024, 1:56 pm
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BradStPete Diamond
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Stuart R Guest
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4 more repliesI mean the South and midwest have smaller economies than in the Northeast and West Coast. It's just the reality.
And it 100% has to do with the local governments and economies, they made political, social, and economic decisions that dissuade high earners from moving in. The truth is though, those are also some of the most profitable hubs for them. The super-fortresses are the money makers. That's why even UA's top airport is DEN,...
I mean the South and midwest have smaller economies than in the Northeast and West Coast. It's just the reality.
And it 100% has to do with the local governments and economies, they made political, social, and economic decisions that dissuade high earners from moving in. The truth is though, those are also some of the most profitable hubs for them. The super-fortresses are the money makers. That's why even UA's top airport is DEN, AA's is DFW, and DL's is ATL. Three of what you would call second or third class cities. CLT has the 2nd highest average airfare in the entire US due to its nature of being an AA fortress.
the comment also represents an elite arrogance that the coasts and northern tier are more advanced. In fact, more Americans are leaving those areas for the south.
And the large NE and west coast plus northern tier cities represent less than 25% of the US population. The US is not only more concentrated in mid-sized and smaller metros but also in the south.
DL, UA and WN all have large operations in the...
the comment also represents an elite arrogance that the coasts and northern tier are more advanced. In fact, more Americans are leaving those areas for the south.
And the large NE and west coast plus northern tier cities represent less than 25% of the US population. The US is not only more concentrated in mid-sized and smaller metros but also in the south.
DL, UA and WN all have large operations in the south with UA the smallest "southern airline" but each have clientele differences with DL and UA's southern clientele more alike than AA or WN's.
Passenger differences are explained more by the level of service offered than where airlines fly. Higher levels of service leads to higher fares. AA has lower levels of service and gets a different clientele; that has nothing to do with the region of the country
Biglaw V10 Parter, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
Gosh, what a thing to even think, much less say. For the record, I personally live in (and love) a second tier city: St. Petersburg, Florida. Have a Master or Science Nursing Degree and have been a corporate travel Manager for 2 of the largest accounting and professional services firms in the world. Oh and I fly Delta.
Back under your rock.
I wasn't gonna comment but holy smokes this line
"But if you look at where AA's fortress hubs are -- Dallas, Charlotte, Philly -- these are all second- or third-class cities at best. Who lives in these cities? People who couldn't make it in their careers to live/work in top markets like New York or San Francisco. Everybody I know in these top markets prefers to fly DL or UA."
What in the ever...
I wasn't gonna comment but holy smokes this line
"But if you look at where AA's fortress hubs are -- Dallas, Charlotte, Philly -- these are all second- or third-class cities at best. Who lives in these cities? People who couldn't make it in their careers to live/work in top markets like New York or San Francisco. Everybody I know in these top markets prefers to fly DL or UA."
What in the ever living world do you live on. How far out of touch are you. Personally I do not want to live and work in NYC or San Fran. I am happy living over in Charlotte or the Houston area or South Florida.
There's a glaring problem on all AA mainline flights even if the service does not suck. Obnoxious and boisterous credit card pitching which Delta and United have found a way to do more discreetly. Many of the AA inflight pitches are factually inaccurate which I'm surprised our consumer protection bureaus let AA get away with.
I'm surprised you managed to come up with 11 things AA does well. AA sucks hard because a significant minority of its frontline workforce is downright hostile to customers. This hostility can take the form of extreme indifference -- I got a call that my first class paid seat was being downgraded to economy, and not a lick of apology, the attitude was "this is how it is and you are going to suck it...
I'm surprised you managed to come up with 11 things AA does well. AA sucks hard because a significant minority of its frontline workforce is downright hostile to customers. This hostility can take the form of extreme indifference -- I got a call that my first class paid seat was being downgraded to economy, and not a lick of apology, the attitude was "this is how it is and you are going to suck it up." Hostility can also take the form of overt yelling at customers as if the airline is US prisoner transport and not paid travel. I specify US prisoners because in more civilized countries the prisoners are treated like human beings.
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BeachBoy Guest
April 11, 2024, 5:18 pm
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David Guest
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1 more reply1000% agree with this post.
AA is my absolute last choice because at best their service is apathetic, but more commonly it is hostile and unpleasant. I hardly fly AA, but each time I still manage to get the bad apples that I'm beginning to wonder if it's just a minority of frontline employees. I actually find flying Spirit more enjoyable (although that may have something to do with having low expectations).
Just booked...
1000% agree with this post.
AA is my absolute last choice because at best their service is apathetic, but more commonly it is hostile and unpleasant. I hardly fly AA, but each time I still manage to get the bad apples that I'm beginning to wonder if it's just a minority of frontline employees. I actually find flying Spirit more enjoyable (although that may have something to do with having low expectations).
Just booked a ticket on DL that was $500 more than AA was asking because it's just not worth paying money to be treated like a "prisoner" even in first class.
I think this is a reflection of how their managers are towards them. Take care of your employees and your employees take care of your customers.
It’s not the customers fault but maybe reach out to management and demand better working conditions for employees.
Good stuff. Missing a couple of your own points - you value AA at 1.5 cents/mile and Delta/United at 1.1. Being worth 36% more is very noteworthy, and this doesn't just apply to award partners. There is huge value for shorthaul redemptions as well, especially on close-in ticketing, first class, and connecting itineraries (because yes I know there may be an avios play for direct)
Operationally I don't see AA vastly improving. I fly AA 2-4 times a week and at least half my flights are late. It does seem there's far fewer maintenance delays which used to be a nightmare in the days of A300s, 762s and MD80s. One thing I find is that when you find a good agent or AC staff they're really, really good. Ditto for FAs.
Don't think there's world of difference between the...
Operationally I don't see AA vastly improving. I fly AA 2-4 times a week and at least half my flights are late. It does seem there's far fewer maintenance delays which used to be a nightmare in the days of A300s, 762s and MD80s. One thing I find is that when you find a good agent or AC staff they're really, really good. Ditto for FAs.
Don't think there's world of difference between the US3, in particular for the coach flyer that isn't going to a lounge or sitting in a widebody business class seats.
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Tim Dunn New Member
April 11, 2024, 1:57 pm
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Mark Guest
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Tim Dunn New Member
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2 more replieson good weather days, the big 4 have very similar operations and the customer service for domestic coach is pretty comparable.
But life isn't always good weather days. Brian Sumers over at the Airline Observer notes that DL's operational performance is coming back stronger and DL execs discussed it on their earnings call yesterday. DL simply does incrementally better during good weather - partly because it operates such a high percentage of flights in...
on good weather days, the big 4 have very similar operations and the customer service for domestic coach is pretty comparable.
But life isn't always good weather days. Brian Sumers over at the Airline Observer notes that DL's operational performance is coming back stronger and DL execs discussed it on their earnings call yesterday. DL simply does incrementally better during good weather - partly because it operates such a high percentage of flights in its core hubs so it can create the best schedules for itself - but also because it does a better job during bad weather and that is easily confirmable. The wheels simply fall off of WN when weather hits, AA has to cancel and delay much higher percentages of flights than DL or UA in bad weather (which could be related to its hubs) while UA is not willing to schedule like DL because it is costly - and so UA's performance always trails DL's.
And, as was noted above, DL people are simply friendlier or at least not near as confrontational. Airlines sell a service and it is the people that make a difference. WN has historically had very good people skills but their operation has drained so many of their people down. AA simply lacks in passenger service, doesn't seem to care or be willing to fix it, and that leads to a further loss of high value customers which forces the spiral further downward.
"and so UA's performance always trails DL'S."
Simply not factual or true. Like much of the BS you write on here, you offer NOTHING to back up your "facts." This is very easy to check. Delta's performance is SLIGHTLY better. And it tends to be seasonal. Again, I'm looking at the on time numbers right in front of me. Domestic flights.
Mark,
you REALLY should look at data and not your incessant need to argue so you can try to convince others to NOT accept the facts you don't want to believe.
The DOT just released on-time data for January 2024: DL #1 followed by Allegiant, WN, NK AND THEN UA - 5.4 points behind DL.
Let's not even get into cancellations which the DOT accurately notes were influenced by the MAX 9 grounding...
Mark,
you REALLY should look at data and not your incessant need to argue so you can try to convince others to NOT accept the facts you don't want to believe.
The DOT just released on-time data for January 2024: DL #1 followed by Allegiant, WN, NK AND THEN UA - 5.4 points behind DL.
Let's not even get into cancellations which the DOT accurately notes were influenced by the MAX 9 grounding - but 7% of UA's flights were cxld and 11% of AS' flights.
and for 2023, DL was #1 at 83.5% followed by AS, then AA, THEN UA behind 3.5% points behind DL.
for 2023 cancellations, DL was at 1.22% while UA was at 1.70% just above F9 and B6
DL is better than UA in every metric the DOT measures including baggage and wheelchair handling, invol oversales, consumer complaints
The DOT ONLY reports on-time for domestic flights.
so, tell us again, what data are you looking at that contradicts the facts that you can't accept? The DOT certainly disagrees w/ you - but let's face it that Scott Kirby has been happy to tell the DOT and FAA they don't know what they are doing - which is certainly part of why UA is in the middle of a safety audit that IS limiting UA's growth.
WHAT AA DOES NOT DO is release transcon premium cabin award inventory to partners. (Other than the occasional oh-dark-thirty flight.)
Can you please, please, PLEASE do this series for the ME3? Not everything is rosy when it comes to EK 777s, QR A330s or EY narrowbodies: this will go a long way in dispelling a lot of customer perceptions, and show that the ME3 are not some exalted Greek gods but mere airlines, though among the best ones. (And probably another such comparison for SQ and Northeast Asian airlines, for good measure.)
And yes, do...
Can you please, please, PLEASE do this series for the ME3? Not everything is rosy when it comes to EK 777s, QR A330s or EY narrowbodies: this will go a long way in dispelling a lot of customer perceptions, and show that the ME3 are not some exalted Greek gods but mere airlines, though among the best ones. (And probably another such comparison for SQ and Northeast Asian airlines, for good measure.)
And yes, do NOT forget to mention that QR may have the best onboard product but is the worst in human-rights affairs, though there has been undeniably some progress.
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ME4th Guest
April 11, 2024, 11:05 am
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JP Guest
April 12, 2024, 10:20 am
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1 more replyYou mean that ME3 who stoled thousands of US jobs and keeps doing it on daily basis by offering much better hard and soft product and ordering Boeing aircrafts?
@ME4th
You're talking nonsense. If you're concerned about the US jobs decreasing, then why is ordering Boeing, an American planemaker, planes a bad thing?
this is a much more balanced and accurate article than yesterday's article about UA - and most notably, you acknowledge that you live in an AA hub and so fly them the most - and have loyalty on them which shifts your loyalty even outside of MIA.
As for strengths, AA really does do a good job of standardization of their cabins esp. on their widebodies but their weakness is their onboard service.
The...
this is a much more balanced and accurate article than yesterday's article about UA - and most notably, you acknowledge that you live in an AA hub and so fly them the most - and have loyalty on them which shifts your loyalty even outside of MIA.
As for strengths, AA really does do a good job of standardization of their cabins esp. on their widebodies but their weakness is their onboard service.
The same can be said about their premium int'l lounges; they are nice but AA hasn't figured out how to use them to shift share in competitive markets esp. in NYC and LAX where they are in worse shape than they were five years ago.
And, yes, not only are the A321Ts going away but so is int'l first class which was a differentiator on some LHR and GRU routes esp.
and while AA has business class product consistency, they got there by eliminating a huge amount of aircraft - including the 767 and A330 - and have not replaced them.
And while there remains this fixation with measuring inches of space in business class, the majority of customers don't fly that way and the 767 and the A330-either for DL or UA - is more spacious in coach than the 777 or 787 is for AA or UA.
and the 767 is NOT DL's largest international fleet - the A330 is. And the 767 is not a single fleet at DL but rather two fleets - the 767-300ER and 767-400 which have different business class products.
and when you consider that a dozen or more 767-300ERs fly domestic transcon routes and another half dozen fly Hawaii routes, DL actually flies less than 20 767-300ERs on international routes, some of which fly to S. America (such as to BOG) which are less than 8 hours and to cities where other airlines offer no widebody service.
and it is worth noting that Cranky has a very good article today about AA's deteriorating revenue situation including in large competitive coastal markets. many of the attributes you cite are premium-passenger focused and yet AA, for reasons which CF and AA execs can't or won't explain, continues to see a deterioration of revenue.
and CF accurately notes that DL just said in its earnings call yesterday (the first US carrier to report 1st quarter financials) that they are seeing a near-return to pre-covid business revenue which stands in contrast to what AA is seeing.
AA's real challenge is that they are becoming less and less relevant in major markets while also not yet demonstrating an advantage with their southern US hub strategy.
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9 more repliesWeird take, when this is less balanced than yesterdays.
A lot of terrible takes. International business class seats is where AA is the weakest, not the strongest. They have the most dated product among all of the US carriers.
AA's wifi is better because it costs money, so less people use it? That is not because AA does something "well".
AA doesn't actually fly that many wide-bodies domestically because it has the least amount of...
Weird take, when this is less balanced than yesterdays.
A lot of terrible takes. International business class seats is where AA is the weakest, not the strongest. They have the most dated product among all of the US carriers.
AA's wifi is better because it costs money, so less people use it? That is not because AA does something "well".
AA doesn't actually fly that many wide-bodies domestically because it has the least amount of wide-bodies of the big 3 carriers and it's only because Ben lives in Miami.
AA has announced doors for business class which UA has not done; DL has suites on about 1/3 of its widebodies (A330NEOs and original delivery A350s). While a door doesn't make or break any ranking, it is a quantifiable metric just as much as measuring inches in business class.
And whatever gains AA has in business class because the 787 and 777 are wider than other aircraft is offset by a tighter coach configuration....
AA has announced doors for business class which UA has not done; DL has suites on about 1/3 of its widebodies (A330NEOs and original delivery A350s). While a door doesn't make or break any ranking, it is a quantifiable metric just as much as measuring inches in business class.
And whatever gains AA has in business class because the 787 and 777 are wider than other aircraft is offset by a tighter coach configuration. Balanced perspective matters.
And AA' and B6s Wifi product presumably is stable where it will be while DL's is still significantly evolving and improving. UA's is much further behind but is presumably shooting for DL's product than AA's
and, yes, AA's use of domestic widebodies is skewed by the double overnights to S. America which leaves "time" to use them domestically. UA uses the most domestic widebodies but many are the high density 777As -which are just older generation versions of the ex-Latam A350s. The difference is that the ex-Latam A350s will be reconfigured.
To piggyback on your comments, AA's network planning has seemed unfocused, inconsistent, and (importantly) unreliable. Having been a CK for years, it was this unreliability that forced me to abandon AA for all but my transcon business. Separately, if Alaska's no-partner-tier-status-on-award-tickets policy becomes the norm and lounge access is denied, AA tier status becomes worthless . . . and how might that play on AA's revenues.
I think you are right on, Lee. and the AA-AS relationship will change because it was not one of equals. AS was providing more benefits than AS' loyal customers could gain from AA.
the root of the issue is that AA has subcontracted out so much of its domestic network - not just to AS and B6 but also to regional carriers. A higher percentage of AA flights are now on regional jets than...
I think you are right on, Lee. and the AA-AS relationship will change because it was not one of equals. AS was providing more benefits than AS' loyal customers could gain from AA.
the root of the issue is that AA has subcontracted out so much of its domestic network - not just to AS and B6 but also to regional carriers. A higher percentage of AA flights are now on regional jets than for UA. While regional carriers sometimes are better than mainline flights and personnel, there is a lack of consistency because no company can control everything on another airline.
Interesting take since AA actually does fully own and control a far greater percentage of its regional network via the Wholly Owned regionals than delta or United. If your thought process is played out logically, this is actually a significantly bigger issue for United and Delta since they control far less in their regional network than AA.
Are you suggesting delta has worse consistency due to lack of regional control than AA?
To...
Interesting take since AA actually does fully own and control a far greater percentage of its regional network via the Wholly Owned regionals than delta or United. If your thought process is played out logically, this is actually a significantly bigger issue for United and Delta since they control far less in their regional network than AA.
Are you suggesting delta has worse consistency due to lack of regional control than AA?
To say nothing of the enormous amount of flying delta “subcontracts” via their JVs where delta also no longer has any controlling share of any of those partners.
Max,
your conclusions are illogical and unsupported by facts
There can and should be greater control of the product on mainline than on regional or contracted carriers. Mainline carriers do a better job of customer service than their regional carriers.
Neither DL or UA contract mainline services to any other airlines as AA does.
DL operates the lowest percentage of its network on regional jets. Ownership of the regional airlines has...
Max,
your conclusions are illogical and unsupported by facts
There can and should be greater control of the product on mainline than on regional or contracted carriers. Mainline carriers do a better job of customer service than their regional carriers.
Neither DL or UA contract mainline services to any other airlines as AA does.
DL operates the lowest percentage of its network on regional jets. Ownership of the regional airlines has nothing to do with the quality of service.
And DL flies more mainline domestic RPMs than any other airline; WN operates more mainline flights.
Nice backpedal. Let’s be clear. AA doesn’t contract out mainline flying. That implies a Block Hour contract model like the regionals utilize. AA does have partnerships and codeshares with other carriers where the aa network isn’t as strong just like delta does with international carriers like WestJet or like AM where Ed Bastian called MEX their texas hub. There is no contract governing Alaska’s flying for AA. You’re trying desperately to backpedal using flawed logic...
Nice backpedal. Let’s be clear. AA doesn’t contract out mainline flying. That implies a Block Hour contract model like the regionals utilize. AA does have partnerships and codeshares with other carriers where the aa network isn’t as strong just like delta does with international carriers like WestJet or like AM where Ed Bastian called MEX their texas hub. There is no contract governing Alaska’s flying for AA. You’re trying desperately to backpedal using flawed logic you tried to create.
But you’re the one who said control was the issue and AA controls their network to a much greater percent extent than delta or United via AA’s mainline flying and fully owned regional carriers. Delta controls far less of their own airline since they only have endeavor vs the three AA regionals.
Nice backpedal attempt though on your own attempt at making a delta “control” comment.
“and the 767 is NOT DL's largest international fleet - the A330 is.”
Well said, Tim. I have never understood why people here focus so heavily on the 767…. Delta’s done a great job with its A330 fleet, including slowly updating to the Neo fleet. Just within the past year, SEA-LHR has upgraded to the 900neo. Progress is being made.
Delta now has more A330NEOs than original build A350-900s.
The A330NEO exists at DL because DL did not see the value of trying to have a single new generation widebody while AA and UA do. The 339 has low acquisition costs - estimated at below $90 million compared to at best $125 million for 787s and has very similar economics as the 787 on flights up to about 12 hours where the 787 has...
Delta now has more A330NEOs than original build A350-900s.
The A330NEO exists at DL because DL did not see the value of trying to have a single new generation widebody while AA and UA do. The 339 has low acquisition costs - estimated at below $90 million compared to at best $125 million for 787s and has very similar economics as the 787 on flights up to about 12 hours where the 787 has an advantage.
The A350 is simply more capable the 787 and that will become more and more apparent in the coming years as DL gets dozens of the most capable A350s. AA and UA will have to take more and more seats off of their 787s in order to try to keep up with the A350's range.
The A330 is not as wide as the 787 but is more than wide enough to provide a very competitive business class product which right now is superior to AA and UA's 787 products. and the 330 has the widest coach seats in the US carrier fleet.
And when DL finishes its current A330NEO order and the ex-Latam A350s are reconfigured, the A330NEO will very likely shift more and more to the eastern US and S. America and away from SLC and LAX. LAX-HND is going to switch to the A350 and SLC to AMS and CDG are also supposed to because the A350 has better performance in the summer heat and altitude when those flights leave. SLC-LHR leaves later so is less impacted.
your point again notes accurately that DL uses its fleet where they work best. The 339 is very competitive from a product and finance perspective and will increasingly displace 767-300ERs across the Atlantic.
you can call it "not contracting out" if you want, MAX but the AA-AS agreement IS about AA not serving a part of the country because AA could buy seats on AS. And they tried to do it with B6. It is simple for anyone to understand.
there is ample data to show that mainline only flights result in higher customer satisfaction scores and more consistency. It is amazing that you harp on consistency expect...
you can call it "not contracting out" if you want, MAX but the AA-AS agreement IS about AA not serving a part of the country because AA could buy seats on AS. And they tried to do it with B6. It is simple for anyone to understand.
there is ample data to show that mainline only flights result in higher customer satisfaction scores and more consistency. It is amazing that you harp on consistency expect when it doesn't exist on AA - and you get it wrong in the contexts it is used.
Some American domestic lounges are way better than Delta lounges e.g., for me, DCA's American lounge beats all Delta lounges in Atlanta - the seating is better, the decor is fantastic and the food and drink is at least equivalent. Plus, way emptier than skyclubs
Hey Lucky,
This comment raised my eyebrows: “ More so than at Delta and United, American operates a good number of internationally configured planes on domestic flights. ”
I don’t believe aa flies more widebodies domestically vs UA or Delta? A lot of that, I’d imagine, has to do with the lack of ancient 767s, but still….
Seems the statement was truer pre pandemic though…
Cranky did some work on this in...
Hey Lucky,
This comment raised my eyebrows: “ More so than at Delta and United, American operates a good number of internationally configured planes on domestic flights. ”
I don’t believe aa flies more widebodies domestically vs UA or Delta? A lot of that, I’d imagine, has to do with the lack of ancient 767s, but still….
Seems the statement was truer pre pandemic though…
Cranky did some work on this in a recent article: https://crankyflier.com/2023/12/14/american-has-a-lot-fewer-widebodies-than-it-used-to-and-it-recently-postponed-getting-more/
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yoloswag420 Guest
April 11, 2024, 11:20 am
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MaxPower Diamond
April 11, 2024, 11:33 am
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yoloswag420 Guest
April 11, 2024, 12:20 pm
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MaxPower Diamond
April 11, 2024, 12:28 pm
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yoloswag420 Guest
April 11, 2024, 12:44 pm
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Tim Dunn New Member
April 11, 2024, 2:11 pm
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5 more repliesThis wouldn't be the first time he's gotten facts wrong. It's the new normal tbh.
This article is completely error-ridden, bad info about widebodies, lounge access. AA's Wifi is better because it's not free.
The United article was much better, you can tell he's scraping the bottom of the barrel for content w/ this one.
Agree to disagree.
I agree with Lucky about business class seats. It’s consistently the best. United’s Polaris product is nice but it was also designed specifically to not lose any J density when it replaced IPTE and the space in the seat shows that. Delta has no consistency and frankly doesn’t seem to care about it anymore. The coffin seat product delta insists upon using is fine but the most dated, by far, even...
Agree to disagree.
I agree with Lucky about business class seats. It’s consistently the best. United’s Polaris product is nice but it was also designed specifically to not lose any J density when it replaced IPTE and the space in the seat shows that. Delta has no consistency and frankly doesn’t seem to care about it anymore. The coffin seat product delta insists upon using is fine but the most dated, by far, even if you put a door on it.
And AA’s WiFi is not free but it is the best among the US3, for now.
You can stream content on every mainline plane AA flies, widebodies included. Certainly can’t say that about United or Delta, if your plane even has WiFi at Delta, another conscious choice delta made (or it works over the ocean).
Lots of great things about each carrier but I don’t really disagree with Lucky on his AA highlights
Delta's seat is literally one of the most popular seats out there though? The Vantage XL seat is used by so many airlines. I would hardly call it dated. If you agree with him so much, Ben himself says it's one of the world's best seats.
Ben is not god to me. I don’t agree with him on everything.
And no. The coffin seat is not generally regarded as one of the most popular out there lol.
You're making sweeping statements w/o using facts. My point about popularity stems from the # of airlines who use this seat, which is a very large amount. It's one of the most commonly used generic seats out there.
While that doesn't inherently equate it being liked by consumers, surely that many airlines aren't just installing a hated product onto their aircrafts?
It sounds like to me, you have a personal bias against these seats, which...
You're making sweeping statements w/o using facts. My point about popularity stems from the # of airlines who use this seat, which is a very large amount. It's one of the most commonly used generic seats out there.
While that doesn't inherently equate it being liked by consumers, surely that many airlines aren't just installing a hated product onto their aircrafts?
It sounds like to me, you have a personal bias against these seats, which is valid. But that doesn't mean these seats are dated or broadly unpopular.
well, yes, Max is biased but he is, like Ben, makes faulty assumptions.
Having a consistent premium cabin product only matters if an airline can get more revenue from it. There are very few airlines that can so they don't try in part because it is impossible logistically to keep 100+ widebodies among multiple models consistent.
and the 767 was never designed to accommodate the premium cabin seats that airlines now use. the 767 was...
well, yes, Max is biased but he is, like Ben, makes faulty assumptions.
Having a consistent premium cabin product only matters if an airline can get more revenue from it. There are very few airlines that can so they don't try in part because it is impossible logistically to keep 100+ widebodies among multiple models consistent.
and the 767 was never designed to accommodate the premium cabin seats that airlines now use. the 767 was designed to cut domestic widebody costs and to open new markets - which AA, DL and UA all did.
Airbus came along with the A330 and made a bigger aircraft that is larger and has better economics and performance and that spelled the end of the 767. Airbus did the same thing with the A321 vs the B737 and the A350 vs the B787.
AA failed to update its 767s during its bankruptcy and for the 10 years after and they became very unreliable so got rid of them.
DL continued to update its 767s but knew they could not offer a product ocmparable to larger aircraft; they know the 767-300ER is their lowest rated international widebody for premium passengers. DL uses the 767-300ERs on leisure-heavy TATL routes and on transcons and to Latin America and Hawaii where other airlines use narrowbodies.
UA destroyed the economics of the 767-300ER by making it just 3 abreast in business class; there simply aren't enough seats on the plane in order to make money at today's high labor costs with augmented crews (3 pilots). DL and UA get very comparable fares around the world in most markets but DL made $300 million more in profit in the first 3 quarters of 2023 - $900 million compared to UA's $600 million. When there is that big of a difference, you have to look at costs - and UA's international costs are higher than DL's because of fuel and fleet efficiency as well as labor efficiency. The 757 and 767-300ER for UA does not have enough seats and the A321XLR will have the exact same problem for both AA and UA on 8+ hour flights.
and I would still bet that DL will put the 767-300ER off of international routes before UA does; DL is starting to retire 767-300ERs this year. UA just sunk a bunch of money in the 30 plus year old 767 that was damaged while landing at IAH. They will push every aircraft as long as they can which means the economics and performance of their international fleet will trail DL's and the amenities will trail AA's.
"Business class passengers get access to the American Flagship Lounge Los Angeles and Soho Lounge New York"
Above is incorrect. J passengers on premium transcontinental routes only have access to Greenwich, not Soho. I'm not sure if elites can go to Soho when traveling on transcons.
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digital_notmad Diamond
April 11, 2024, 9:53 am
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ATP Guest
April 11, 2024, 11:12 am
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1 more replyYes, this is indeed incorrect. Elites cannot go to Soho on transcons (only exception being CK, which also has access to Chelsea), and further, oneworld Sapphire status only gets you access to Greenwich internationally, not Soho - Greenwich is the Flagship Lounge equivalent. Soho is effectively a oneworld First Class lounge for elite access rule purposes.
Correct, these lounges are designed to be a direct complement to the lounges in London T5 to provide consistency for BA customers on this frequented route:
Concorde Room -> Chelsea
Galleries First -> Soho
Galleries Club -> Greenwich
For years I always thought that potential upgrades on the premium transcons was what set AA apart for me (due to UA not having them, and them being relatively easier on AA vs DL), but that has now changed. AA is very aggressively selling upgrades on these routes now. As an AA elite myself, I find myself just buying the upgrades now if the price is right-- and I have been offered upgrades for as low as in the $200s one way.
Overall I like American, but two things that are just annoying right now:
1) Still no posting of loyalty points for card accounts that closed in March/ earned in March. I have had accounts start to close in April and have received loyalty points for those, but not for the March closes... and for my spending last month, that's a lot of points!!
2) Annoyed right now that Qatar Airways has opened up...
Overall I like American, but two things that are just annoying right now:
1) Still no posting of loyalty points for card accounts that closed in March/ earned in March. I have had accounts start to close in April and have received loyalty points for those, but not for the March closes... and for my spending last month, that's a lot of points!!
2) Annoyed right now that Qatar Airways has opened up Q Suite/ Business availability for next February and March for avios based programs but NOT for Aadvantage. I hope that there is an ability at some point to use my Aadvantage miles for those trips I would like to take next March.
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jak Member
April 11, 2024, 9:31 am
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Jason Guest
April 11, 2024, 9:33 am
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1 more replyI called AA about this last week and was told to talk to Citi. They live-transferred me and when I talked to Citi I was told that the loyalty points earned on card spend from 3/1 through March statement were supposed to post in April. This according to an internal email the agent I spoke with said she was sent. So you're indicating your April statement closed and you got points for that statement but...
I called AA about this last week and was told to talk to Citi. They live-transferred me and when I talked to Citi I was told that the loyalty points earned on card spend from 3/1 through March statement were supposed to post in April. This according to an internal email the agent I spoke with said she was sent. So you're indicating your April statement closed and you got points for that statement but not from 3/1 through March statement close? That's annoying... I thought what she was telling was suspect since miles posted for that timeframe, it was only points which did not.
Yes - I have a few AA cards, one of which closes early in the month. It closed on March 10 and then on April 10. I received my Loyalty points for the April 10 closure, but not for the March 10 closure yet.
I have two more AA cards that close in April, but for both of them I have NOT seen the loyalty points post yet for their respective March closures. It's really annoying.
I hope my son doesn't comment here raging again smh
It’s only a matter of time before he starts rambling on in everyone else’s comments telling them that they’re wrong. Delta should have been the first article since they’re the worlds only perfect airline.