There’s no denying that on some level, travel is political. I mean, definitionally, politics relates to the government, public affairs, and control of a country or group, or the systems and rules by which people live together in society. So while I try to leave politics out of my travel reviews, laws and norms around the world absolutely impact everyone’s experience when traveling.
I’m gay, and married, and even have two kids, so people will sometimes have comments or questions about how that impacts my travels, where I choose to go, and what I elect to disclose. So I’d like to talk about that a bit in this post, and then I’d be curious to hear how others approach this.
In this post:
A few travel disclaimers to start
Before I get too deep into sharing my approach when it comes to traveling and being gay, let me acknowledge a few things:
- I recognize I’m incredibly fortunate to live in a country where I can (for the most part) live my life freely, and I’m also blessed to have a supportive family, and to be financially independent; even in the United States, plenty of people don’t have accepting families, and might not be able to support themselves financially, leading to some bad situations
- There’s a big difference between being a visitor somewhere and trying to live one’s life somewhere, so I’m not suggesting “well I didn’t have any problems in X country, and therefore no one will”
- I’m just sharing my experiences and beliefs, which I’ve come to after endless travel over the years, and for that matter, I evolve on some topics over time; of course others may have different experiences, and I’m not saying these opinions will apply everywhere in the world
- In the comments section I’d love to hear how others approach these complex issues, though I ask that everyone be respectful; we can all share our beliefs without putting other people down
With that out of the way, let me share my general philosophy.
It’s important to be out and unapologetic
Any gay person knows that coming out can be complicated — that starts with coming out to yourself and accepting who you are. The older I’ve gotten, the less sheepish and more unapologetic I’ve become about being gay. What people think about me being gay isn’t something I’m going to lose any sleep over — that’s their problem, not mine. That includes when traveling to countries that might on the surface be less accepting of gay travelers.
I’ll take it a step further in saying that I think it’s my duty to come out whenever I can. The goal isn’t to make people uncomfortable or shame them into acceptance, but rather to build a bridge, and normalize people of different backgrounds as much as possible. We all have preconceived notions about certain groups of people, and the way to get over those is to show people that our similarities outnumber our differences.
Now, let me add a caveat there. While I think it’s important to be out and unapologetic, personally my sexuality doesn’t define my identity or who I am as a person. I don’t say that in a self-loathing way, but instead, my preference is to highlight similarities rather than differences.
I’d rather not be thought of as a “gay couple” or “gay family” or whatever. I’d like to think we’re just a couple, or family, or whatever. That just reflects my general beliefs system in life, that I think there are so many more similarities than differences between us, and I don’t feel the need to point out “hey, I’m different” or “I’m special.” There’s nothing wrong with people who take a different approach, but that’s just me.
Coming out is a never-ending, complicated process
When you travel as a gay couple in many parts of the world, it’s normal for people to just assume that you’re friends, brothers, colleagues, etc. I get it, that doesn’t bother me, and I’m not offended in the slightest. I’m never going to be upset at anyone for making that assumption, because, well, I’d spend a lot of time being upset, and that doesn’t benefit anyone.
That being said, when I feel it’s safe and helpful to do so, I try to subtly avoid that and correct misconceptions. Let me give some examples:
- If I’m in contact with a hotel in advance, I’ll make it clear that I’m traveling with my husband, so that they’re clear on what the relationship is, and that booking a room with one bed isn’t a mistake; whether or not they process that correctly is a different story
- If I’m in a setting where it’s safe to do so (in my travels that’s a vast majority of places), and I’m referring to Ford in any context, I refer to him as what he is, which is my husband
- If someone refers to him as my friend, I’m typically not going to correct them right away, because I don’t think it helps to make anyone feel like they offended me (and I’m not offended, for that matter); that being said, if I interact with the same person multiple times, I might say “oh I’m just waiting on my husband, he should be here shortly,” or something, so that hopefully they get the hint
It’s also important to acknowledge that context matters:
- If I’m in a taxi in Moscow at 10PM and the driver is trying to get us to go to a strip club, we’re not going to correct him and tell him we’re gay (note: I’m not going to Moscow now, but this did happen when we visited many years back)
- Generally speaking I feel much more comfortable being openly gay when staying at a major international chain hotel, because they have global standards around acceptance and inclusivity; if I were (theoretically) at a small guest house in a very conservative country, it would of course be a totally different story
- Sometimes I’m just not in the mood to come out (because it’s exhausting), or the setting isn’t right; several years back I wrote about my experience getting a massage in Singapore, and the lady asked if I had kids, and when I said I didn’t, she asked “why not?” and said that after the massage I’d “be nice and relaxed and can make babies soon,” and I don’t really feel like that’s the time to come out (we did have kids in the end, but it wasn’t due to being nice and relaxed!)
There’s value in interactions at all levels
Even at a chain hotel, I think there’s potentially huge value in the individual interactions you can have with people. Perceptions don’t change overnight, but rather it’s a slow process. For example, take Dubai, which has workers from all over the globe.
The workers you interact with may be from countries that aren’t accepting of gays. But if you can be yourself around them, and they realize you’re not that different than others, I think there’s value in that, and that over time will lead to a shift in mindsets.
Peoples’ perceptions don’t shift because they take a one hour training course about inclusivity when they started their job. They shift through firsthand experiences.
Similarly, I’ve had people in countries that aren’t particularly accepting come out to me, and say how they could never come out to their family, etc. But it’s nice to be able to hear them out and be supportive.
Just as I hope people become more accepting of my community through firsthand experience, I similarly have evolved my perceptions of groups due to firsthand interactions. Maybe we have a negative perception of a certain country, only to find out that the people are actually very different than we were expecting.
Laws in different countries can be tough to rationalize
People often say “I’ll never travel to [insert country] because of the laws they have against gays.” That’s totally fair, and I get it. You’re not wrong, and in many cases the laws are very problematic.
But for countries like Bahrain, Oman, Qatar, the UAE, etc., I have absolutely no qualms being myself. If someone wants to generally boycott these countries because of the laws, I respect that (and I’ve also covered my thoughts on ethics of flying Gulf carriers). But I also think there’s some nuance to understand:
- Admittedly a lot of these countries have a lot of laws that aren’t actually enforced, and this goes way beyond being gay; this includes laws around public displays of affection, laws around unmarried people staying in the rooms, laws around sex, etc.
- For example, until 2020 it was technically illegal for unmarried people to share a hotel room in the UAE; yet how many tens of millions of unmarried couples visited the UAE over time, shared a hotel room, and had no issues?
- Essentially many Middle Eastern countries operate on a system of unenforced laws, which is a problem, but that also goes way beyond laws involving same sex relationships
- I have an endless number of gay friends who live in countries that are thought of as being anti-gay, yet they choose to live there, and have a positive view on things; it would be rich for me to come in and tell them how they should feel about their own lives and decisions
- My philosophy is that if you’re respectful to locals, including following local customs, then they’ll be respectful back to you
I also think it’s important to recognize when countries are making progress, even if they’re not as far along as other countries, or as far along as many of us would like them to be. I think we often forget that many countries in the Middle East have official religions, and are only a few decades old.
Yes, it’s the year 2026 for all of us, but there’s a difference between a country that has been around for hundreds of years and claims to not be guided by a particular religion, and a country that has been around for a few decades and is based on religious law.
As I also recently wrote about, there’s often nuance to this stuff that’s missing. Laws are generally in reference to sexual activity, rather than in reference to “being gay,” or whatever. Speaking of the complexity of laws, you can even run into trouble in countries with things having nothing to do with sexuality. I’ve basically been banned from Egypt for criticizing the airport in a blog post, so…
How does traveling with kids factor into this?
I do have to admit that my approach is a little different based on whether I’m traveling alone, traveling with Ford, or we’re traveling as a family, with one or both of our kids. As you’d expect, the travel experiences I’m willing to consider differ with each set of circumstances.
When I’m traveling alone, I have almost no limits to where I’m willing to go. When I’m traveling with Ford, I try to pick places where we’ll at least both feel relatively comfortable. Meanwhile if we’re traveling as a family, I try to have a really high standard in that regard.
Admittedly our older son is four years old and younger son is one year old, so we don’t have that much experience yet. But so far our travels have primarily been limited to the European Union, Mexico, and Caribbean, along with domestic travel.
The first two are generally pretty gay friendly in that regard (especially on the tourism front), while the Caribbean can be a bit trickier. Our only Caribbean trip was with our older son when he was a baby, and that went well. Admittedly you sometimes get a look or two, but everyone was nice enough, so I can’t really complain.
I’m still figuring out the limits of what I’d feel comfortable with, but that’s the experience we’ve had up until now.
Bottom line
I often get questions about my approach to traveling to countries that (on the surface) aren’t particularly accepting of gay travelers. Hopefully the above is a useful rundown of the approach that I take.
Personally I think it’s important to try to be “out” whenever you safely can, and for that matter, I just don’t have interest in traveling to destinations where I have to hide who I am. There’s admittedly a balance here, since local customs have to be respected as well. But those aren’t always as black and white as people might assume.
Again, I don’t claim that my approach is right, as I think there are lots of reasonable perspectives to have on this. I do think it’s important to disagree respectfully, though.
I’m curious how those in the OMAAT community approach this issue, if relevant?
I think being gay does not necessarily mean being part of the LGBTQ+ community. Honestly, I find most people do not care for other people's sexual orientation, no need to keep bring it up every time
If you're gay you're indeed part of at the very least the gay community. It's a community based on a common trait, which in this case is sexuality, and the shared challenges and opportunities that brings. Now, of course, you can shun some parts of gay world. Don't like Kylie or Drag Race? Fair enough - don't listen or watch. You're still part of the wider community. I think when people say they're gay but...
If you're gay you're indeed part of at the very least the gay community. It's a community based on a common trait, which in this case is sexuality, and the shared challenges and opportunities that brings. Now, of course, you can shun some parts of gay world. Don't like Kylie or Drag Race? Fair enough - don't listen or watch. You're still part of the wider community. I think when people say they're gay but not part of the community they're projecting onto the wider "community" what they don't like about being gay and I'm not sure that's reasonable or healthy to be honest.
Thank you so much for the article. I so agree with most of it. My husband and I travel a lot, this year every month to different countries, mostly in Europe but we have also been several times to different parts of the US, Canada, Thailand, Australia etc. We have been together for almost 30 years and always book king-size beds. I make the travel plans and I try to choose countries where the LGBTI+...
Thank you so much for the article. I so agree with most of it. My husband and I travel a lot, this year every month to different countries, mostly in Europe but we have also been several times to different parts of the US, Canada, Thailand, Australia etc. We have been together for almost 30 years and always book king-size beds. I make the travel plans and I try to choose countries where the LGBTI+ rights are respected. I know that we are very privileged because we are relatively well-off and we are white. We don’t hold hands or do PDA in our daily lives at home so we are not doing so in not so gay friendly countries either. But travelling as a gay couple is not always easy and straight forward, not even for us. For example, I was negatively surprised in June this year when visiting Vienna for the first time. We were asked “Are you brothers?” several times at a local market in the middle of the city. With the well-recognised tone. And then loudly insulted when we did not buy anything from that stall. And how many times have we heard “is he your partner” in the US? Through our travels I have learned to book accommodation in well-known hotels (with a top tier membership), especially if in a country we have not visited before. Yes, definitively more boring than staying in smaller local hotels, but usually hassle free and that’s what we need during the holidays. Our working life is stressful enough, no need to search for it during our holidays. We both work in a multinational organisation and have lots of colleagues (and friends) with various nationalities, religions, skin colours, languages etc. Some of them are members of the LGBTI+ community, others not. I do not want special rights or treatment because we are a gay couple, we just want to be considered a couple. Getting a king-size bed is actually a big deal for me and I do get very demanding at the hotel reception if it is not the case. However, this is extremely rare. But all in all, politics and gay rights play a big role in our holiday planning. Still strongly hesitating whether to go to Morocco with (straight) friends next year, but maybe if I can choose the well-known hotel chain? And my pink dollars will never be spent in the US either, Canada it is and will be for us since two years already. I just loved visiting the US and flew to NYC/California every year, but no more, enough is enough. Montreal/Vancouver/Toronto have replaced the US for us, loving the languages too.
First of all, I want to thank you. I’m proud to read this. I’m proud that you wrote it. I am a gay man in my 40s. I have a daughter and a partner and over the years I’ve had very similar experiences to you and your family. I’ve travelled to over 200 countries and almost been to all but have a few more to go on the UN list that I haven’t touched. Without...
First of all, I want to thank you. I’m proud to read this. I’m proud that you wrote it. I am a gay man in my 40s. I have a daughter and a partner and over the years I’ve had very similar experiences to you and your family. I’ve travelled to over 200 countries and almost been to all but have a few more to go on the UN list that I haven’t touched. Without a doubt I believe in being myself as authentically as I can and while I’m respectful of other countries and their laws & I try not to misrepresent myself wherever I might be.
I think the biggest thing that when someone asks me about who I am and my family of course I tell them I have a daughter. Usually people’s next question is where is your wife? I politely say my husband or partner is at home and my daughter lives with her two mommies…Usually most people go quiet after that and don’t know what to say and having a modern family in today’s world is not easy to explain even to people in the United States where I currently reside for 1 more month. I’ve chosen to leave for many reasons but that is a discussion for another time.
I think most people when I tell them about myself and who I am are very curious and have questions how that works. I believe the universal way of communication is smiling and telling them the truth. I have a similar hope in that the more exposure to our community, the better worldwide. Bringing an understanding and love to everyone as a human.
But thank you again for writing this. It really made me smile. I appreciate you and your blogs. Continue to write as I’m not only a travel enthusiast but certainly an aviation enthusiast. With love! B
I most disappointed that Ben didn’t walk around Cairo airport for 3 hours holding Ford’s hand.
Thank you for writing about this. My experience (although without children) has been very similar. My husband and I have almost always had very positive experiences, no matter where we travel, being true self. I do feel that we need to be honest about being a maried gay couple as that is what changes people's opinions, one at a time.
My husband and I live in Maine and have transited but not traveled to the Gulf/Middle East, but have had multiple visits to Africa, Asia, Europe, Oceana, South and North America. Never an issue for us except crossing the border from Canada back home to Maine a decade ago. The agent clearly had a problem with us being a couple. We had one suitcase between us for the long weekend in PEI. We were separated,...
My husband and I live in Maine and have transited but not traveled to the Gulf/Middle East, but have had multiple visits to Africa, Asia, Europe, Oceana, South and North America. Never an issue for us except crossing the border from Canada back home to Maine a decade ago. The agent clearly had a problem with us being a couple. We had one suitcase between us for the long weekend in PEI. We were separated, the car torn apart, and were generally disrespected. Of course, I wrote letters. The final determination? All policies and procedures were followed to the letter. Ok, then. I'm sure there are risks in other parts of the world, but my worst 'gay' travel experience was in my own back yard.
I am always amazed at people who say they won't go to a certain place because of their laws or beliefs like you not going is going to change it and like everywhere should have the Western system. Isn't that what travel is supposed to be? You're supposed to see and experience different prospectives. Sure, I would not go to a war zone now but many places have varying levels of local laws and local culture.
While I agree with most of what Ben says, I have to admit that as a much older gay married gay man, my perspective on what is okay to say or do, or how people will react, is based on quite a different history of experiences. Even in liberal cities in the US, gay acceptance in the 60s, 70s, and 80s was never a given, and being on your guard at all times was a...
While I agree with most of what Ben says, I have to admit that as a much older gay married gay man, my perspective on what is okay to say or do, or how people will react, is based on quite a different history of experiences. Even in liberal cities in the US, gay acceptance in the 60s, 70s, and 80s was never a given, and being on your guard at all times was a requirement. The AIDS epidemic did nothing to reduce the us/them divide. Things "seem" better now, but I'm still cautious.
What did have a profound effect on me was working most of my career with a large, well-known international health organization. It had offices in every major city in the world, but especially in Asia, Africa, and Latin America. I got to travel and spend time with colleagues with very different backgrounds, religions, and core beliefs from mine. I got to experience that "you're not very different from us" aha moment again and again. And as a manager with staff based in these countries, I was judged more by the quality of the work we did - helping and saving lives - than by any bias against gay people. My staff knew my husband's name, what he did for work, how long we had been a couple, etc., and even after I retired, many of these relationships have continued. For that reason, I do feel very lucky.
Travel like everyone else. So what. Simple.
Great post, Ben.
Separately, It's amazing how much I find myself specifically looking for your articles when I'm googling something. "AF Flying blue mileage cancel policy omaat". Thank you for such a comprehensive website that I trust.
I so appreciate your insights and travel blog. Thanks for letting us so deeply into your world.
This post is another reason I love your website -- the way you allow us into your every day...
Great post, Ben.
Separately, It's amazing how much I find myself specifically looking for your articles when I'm googling something. "AF Flying blue mileage cancel policy omaat". Thank you for such a comprehensive website that I trust.
I so appreciate your insights and travel blog. Thanks for letting us so deeply into your world.
This post is another reason I love your website -- the way you allow us into your every day life to translate various issues.
Thanks for being awesome.
Ben, Thanks for this thoughtful post. Posts like these are one of the reasons I love your site.
My partner of many years is significantly younger than me. Like by a lot. He is naturally very masculine, I'm in the middle of that spectrum LOL. We have traveled throughout Latin America, Europe including Moscow and North America. It's always interesting to see how other people react to an inter-generational relationship. We hear the "must be father and son" frequently and depending on the person making that (inoffensive to be sure) comment, we may...
My partner of many years is significantly younger than me. Like by a lot. He is naturally very masculine, I'm in the middle of that spectrum LOL. We have traveled throughout Latin America, Europe including Moscow and North America. It's always interesting to see how other people react to an inter-generational relationship. We hear the "must be father and son" frequently and depending on the person making that (inoffensive to be sure) comment, we may or may not correct that impression.
I agree with Ben that traveling for LGBT folks has its charms as well as concerns but never have we ever had a bad experience...except in our home state of Florida.
Just curious, what's the age gap, asking for a friend
So.. you ended up at a strip club in Moscow?
Ben
You disappoint me. You can find time to post five responses to comments concerning pop up priotity pass lounges but, at least thus far, you have engaged in no dialogue on this subject (which I commend you for bringing up in the first place).
wow... you came here looking to start a fight in the comment section about a deeply personal issue to Ben. Then are surprised when he stated what he believes but doesn't feel compelled to start arguing with what you wrote below.
Ben never spoke about whether LGBT rights are progressing or regressing in the US. YOU brought that up as a means to pick a weird fight when it wasn't the point of the post.
...wow... you came here looking to start a fight in the comment section about a deeply personal issue to Ben. Then are surprised when he stated what he believes but doesn't feel compelled to start arguing with what you wrote below.
Ben never spoke about whether LGBT rights are progressing or regressing in the US. YOU brought that up as a means to pick a weird fight when it wasn't the point of the post.
I agree with you. The glass of LGBT rights in the US is not "Full". But you seem to choose to focus on how half empty the glass is vs Ben's brief mention of the half full life experience he and his family enjoy in Miami and... why he brought that up in the first place -- International travel -- not USA LGBT rights.
I truly DOUBT Ben would disagree with you that there's a young gay kid in... ECP... or DAB that can't live his life at his parents' baptist church or at school.
But dude... going off on Ben because of that one statement? Then a follow up about how he's not responding to your off-topic misdirection?
Sometimes you need to take a step back and realize there's more work to do but that we don't need to focus on the negative on every post. There's time for that. You'll break your brain if this is how you react to every article of this bent.
Max
I have rarely seen such a over reaction to a posting. I started out saying that I agreed and appreciated many of the points raised in his posting. I then said that I believed he was understatimg the legal, political and social threats that the LGBTQ community faces. I then stated that while I did not believe it was his intention to do so, I believe he was not recognizing that those without...
Max
I have rarely seen such a over reaction to a posting. I started out saying that I agreed and appreciated many of the points raised in his posting. I then said that I believed he was understatimg the legal, political and social threats that the LGBTQ community faces. I then stated that while I did not believe it was his intention to do so, I believe he was not recognizing that those without power and mresources (like him, myself) cannot always protect themselves against the forces of hate and bigotry. I would suggest you reread the original post by Ben where he stated that he could mostly live freely as a gay man. I was simply pointing out that that is not true for untold number of LGBTQ+ people in this nation.
I must have missed your appintment as the gatekeeper of what comments are "off-topic." My last post, probably poorly worded, was that I was disappointed that Ben would not want to engage in what was a respectful disagreement.
Perhaps you might take your own advice and not respond in such a judgmental manner.
Max
It was never my intention to "attack" or "go off" on Ben (or you for that matter). I can summarize my motivation in one sentence: An impressive summary of the international conditions for gay tarvellers (which Ben provided) should not be predicated on an inaccurate assesment of gay rights in the United States.
Good post.
I think you highlighted well that it’s much easier traveling solo than it is traveling as a gay couple or family. A gay couple traveling stands out. No matter how much you think you may blend in, you stand out.
Wow this article really brings it home for me. I am gay, have a husband/partner of 30+ years, and we raised two sons...just like Lucky, but a few decades older :)
One important difference though is that the members of my family are not all Caucasian, which has added another layer of potential discrimination. In my experience, race-- not sexual orientation-- has played a bigger role in the travel difficulties we have experienced. For...
Wow this article really brings it home for me. I am gay, have a husband/partner of 30+ years, and we raised two sons...just like Lucky, but a few decades older :)
One important difference though is that the members of my family are not all Caucasian, which has added another layer of potential discrimination. In my experience, race-- not sexual orientation-- has played a bigger role in the travel difficulties we have experienced. For example, on one trip to Austria, AirBnB owners refused to honour our bookings once they laid eyes on us, and multiple restaurants in Austria refused to serve us.
We are fairly low-key travellers, we generally behave ourselves and do not make a big fuss. That being said, we have found that if we respect others, they will respect us (aside from, as mentioned above, Austria). We have been all over the world, including some amazing places in Europe and SE Asia and, despite several of them being "conservative" or Muslim-majority, we have never had any issues.
I agree with Ben's take that one of the best ways to open people's minds is to simply be yourselves. My husband and I are, I think, obviously a couple, but we refrain from acting like kings or queens or Karens or clowns.
My husband and twins and I were in London a couple of years ago staying at a top rate hotel. We were unmistakably a family.
Our waiter (who was there for breakfast each morning) asked where my “brother” was (as he was sleeping in). I think he knew well that it was my husband - but he was trying to be polite.
I gently corrected “he is my husband.”
Not sure if the waiter knew what to do with that.
@Ben, I hope you are not considering travel to Russia anytime soon. War is the obvious reason, but anti-gay laws and rhetoric have also been turned up a lot since the last time you've been there.
As far as "respecting local customs" in parts of the Middle East, I don't think "respect" is the right word when the local custom is to murder gay family members to protect the family "honor". At least I...
@Ben, I hope you are not considering travel to Russia anytime soon. War is the obvious reason, but anti-gay laws and rhetoric have also been turned up a lot since the last time you've been there.
As far as "respecting local customs" in parts of the Middle East, I don't think "respect" is the right word when the local custom is to murder gay family members to protect the family "honor". At least I hope that what you really do is "not draw attention" to yourself, rather than "respect" it.
Agreed that Russia is no-go for now (and probably for a while). However, Ben did literally say: "(note: I’m not going to Moscow now, but this did happen when we visited many years back)"
Sorry, I wasn't clear enough. War is the obvious reason not to go now. But even if/when the war ends, Russia will remain a no-go place for gay families, especially with kids. This very post is a crime under Russian law - public normalization of same-sex relationships is banned. Even following the "respected local custom" of bribing various officials might not help in this case.
I personally would be a bit more cautious about “unenforced” laws. Sure, in most circumstances, these laws aren’t pro-actively applied, but the authorities have laws they can pursue you on, should they decide they want to for whatever reason.
Well I agree with a lot of things Ben has written.
Mostly about being yourself and that it is the other guy‘s problem if he has a problem.
But Ben as you rightly said, you are no longer welcome in Cairo. Remember the story of a guy who got into serious legal trouble about a review?
These are countries that basically give you no rights. Free speech? Fair legal process? So if you step...
Well I agree with a lot of things Ben has written.
Mostly about being yourself and that it is the other guy‘s problem if he has a problem.
But Ben as you rightly said, you are no longer welcome in Cairo. Remember the story of a guy who got into serious legal trouble about a review?
These are countries that basically give you no rights. Free speech? Fair legal process? So if you step on the toes of the wrong person all those anti gay laws will suddenly pop up.
As you said your choice in the end but traveling to countries which still have the whip as a legal punishment and writing honest reviews….
tough choice.
I think you're discounting the likelihood that the massage helped you get those kids :D
Curious to get your or others perspective on traveling to countries as a family where adoption / surrogacy is illegal for same-sex couples (i.e. Italy). Morally, is it fair to travel somewhere that local representation is not afforded the same rights you are? Or in a country where same-sex marriage is not legal, would you reconsider visiting in the unfortunate event a hospital stay is required for one of your children and one or both...
Curious to get your or others perspective on traveling to countries as a family where adoption / surrogacy is illegal for same-sex couples (i.e. Italy). Morally, is it fair to travel somewhere that local representation is not afforded the same rights you are? Or in a country where same-sex marriage is not legal, would you reconsider visiting in the unfortunate event a hospital stay is required for one of your children and one or both of you would not be afforded visitation rights as they would not recognize one of the parents as a legal guardian?
Surrogacy is illegal (or restricted to altruistic surrogacy, i.e., non-commercial) in many countries, including almost all Western European countries. (A German politician resigned recently after he and his husband had a child through a California surrogate, even though his party has expressed a clear moral stand against surrogacy.) According to Wikipedia, only some US states (not predictable from red/blueness) and some former Soviet block countries explicitly allow surrogacy. The countries having no legal regulation of...
Surrogacy is illegal (or restricted to altruistic surrogacy, i.e., non-commercial) in many countries, including almost all Western European countries. (A German politician resigned recently after he and his husband had a child through a California surrogate, even though his party has expressed a clear moral stand against surrogacy.) According to Wikipedia, only some US states (not predictable from red/blueness) and some former Soviet block countries explicitly allow surrogacy. The countries having no legal regulation of surrogacy include Iran and most South American countries. So surrogacy does not pattern clearly with LBGT rights. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surrogacy_laws_by_country
This does not answer Gordon's question about surrogacy, of course.
You should be OK in many countries. If you got sick in Taiwan, for example, where surrogacy is illegal, you would have visitation rights and both parents would be recognized.
Really sad how you only stay in chains and a small guest house is only (theoretically)
Ben
There is much wisdom in your observations and I thank you for them. However, I must take exception to your statement, "I recognize I’m incredibly fortunate to live in a country where I can (for the most part) live my life freely..." The fact is that the LGBTQ+ community still faces substantial (and increasing) discrimination and intolerance. Major threats to the LGBTQ+ community iinclude legislative restrictions on healthcare and civil rights, rising physical...
Ben
There is much wisdom in your observations and I thank you for them. However, I must take exception to your statement, "I recognize I’m incredibly fortunate to live in a country where I can (for the most part) live my life freely..." The fact is that the LGBTQ+ community still faces substantial (and increasing) discrimination and intolerance. Major threats to the LGBTQ+ community iinclude legislative restrictions on healthcare and civil rights, rising physical and online hate incidents, severe mental health and suicide risks driven by social stigma, and widespread discrimination in public spaces, schools, and workplaces. You (and I) are fortunate enough to have the economic and social resources to sunstantially protect ourselves but we must recognize that many LGBTQ+ individuals are not so fortunate and are NOT live their lifes freely and exposed to the vicissitues of the current policies and attitudes in the United States. I know you did not mean to but I think you are minimizing the worsening state of rights for many in the LGBTQ+ community.
Oh come on. As a gay guy in the US I think that YOU are minimizing how good we have it. I live in Texas. Being gay has no negative impact on my life. Zero. I keep waiting for this oppression to kick in while I’m hanging out with my boyfriend at the gay bars here in Dallas but it never seems to come.
BigT3x
Organizations like GLAAD place Texas among the states with the highest numbers of anti-LGBTQ+ hate events, including physical assaults, vandalism, and mass shooting threats. At the same time, the Texas legislature has passed numerous anti-LGBTQ+ laws: targeting the LGBTQ+ community, focusing heavily on public education, legal definitions of sex, medical records, and public facilities. Do not judge the state from the confines of Oak Lawn and Uptown.
Dallas is hardly representative of Texas. The situation in Hill Country, Odessa, or Abilene is probably a bit more instructive. I live in the DC suburbs of northern Virginia, but an hour west of here in the Shenandoah Valley, attitudes are significantly more regressive.
Repression also isn’t always police raiding gay bars. Kids with troglodyte parents, schools with no safeguards or safe spaces, and overly influential religious leaders spewing hate all contribute to an...
Dallas is hardly representative of Texas. The situation in Hill Country, Odessa, or Abilene is probably a bit more instructive. I live in the DC suburbs of northern Virginia, but an hour west of here in the Shenandoah Valley, attitudes are significantly more regressive.
Repression also isn’t always police raiding gay bars. Kids with troglodyte parents, schools with no safeguards or safe spaces, and overly influential religious leaders spewing hate all contribute to an environment that makes coming out fraught for many.
I’m glad you feel safe in Texas. But your experience, while worth celebrating considering how far Dallas has come, doesn’t erase or make better the situation for too many in the States.
I would be far more concerned about the risk of being a victim of a hate crime in NYC than anywhere in Texas. It's not even close. Don't pretend perceived politics has any bearing on reality.
Mike
This from this from Houston Public Media: : National tracking lists California, New York, and Texas as the top three states for anti-LGBTQ+ extremist and hate incidents. In a comprehensive multi-month tracking study, New York documented 35 major incidents compared to Texas's 30.
Texas, unfortunately, is far more than Oak Lawn, Cedar Springs, and Uptown.
@BigT3x, nobody is saying that everybody is oppressed at all times but cannot deny the historically systematic discrimination and continued homophobia and instances of violence that occur every so often in different parts of the country, not to mention the barrage of anti-gay laws passed so far this decade alone. Just because you have been fine that does not mean it's a non-issue, amiright?
imho in travel it's more important than ever to exercise reasonable judgment and discretion, which is the opposite of having black-and-white, hard-and-fast rules. context matters, degrees matter, trade-offs are important considerations. in general, authoritarian countries, or countries that are actively engaged in campaigns of organized discrimination against vulnerable communities are default-downweighted in my travel priorities, but that's not the same as saying i won't travel there if there's a good reason to do it. for...
imho in travel it's more important than ever to exercise reasonable judgment and discretion, which is the opposite of having black-and-white, hard-and-fast rules. context matters, degrees matter, trade-offs are important considerations. in general, authoritarian countries, or countries that are actively engaged in campaigns of organized discrimination against vulnerable communities are default-downweighted in my travel priorities, but that's not the same as saying i won't travel there if there's a good reason to do it. for that matter, i'm visiting a friend in vietnam right now -- but absent that friendship, i'd probably be in taiwan or something instead.
Having just returned from the "Stans" there was no problems at all, and everyone just kept going about their daily life. Of course my partner and I were conservative regarding interaction etc. But the locals were so friendly and hospitable, regardless of who and what we are.
One factor I wonder about, god forbid, is situations where medical care is necessary. In countries with anti-gay laws, I would be concerned that marital or parental rights might not be respected or more complicated with regards to making medical decisions, hospital visitations, etc.
Those are good points.
Oh my, I never even thought about that!
@Ben, I think it's important to acknowledge that your socioeconomic background, race, dual citizenship, etc., afford you privileges that many other LGBTQ travelers might not have. Your travel blogger status also helps (but it might actually be a hindrance in some cases, especially in one particular airport/instance...). You're absolutely right that coming out is a never-ending process, and people have to choose carefully about the circumstances to do so while traveling.
In any case,...
@Ben, I think it's important to acknowledge that your socioeconomic background, race, dual citizenship, etc., afford you privileges that many other LGBTQ travelers might not have. Your travel blogger status also helps (but it might actually be a hindrance in some cases, especially in one particular airport/instance...). You're absolutely right that coming out is a never-ending process, and people have to choose carefully about the circumstances to do so while traveling.
In any case, I think your approach works for you and your family, which is great, but others may need to be more mindful and particular about their travel decisions/destinations (like @Udo mentions) to ensure their own safety.
I think that it's worth noting that these kinds of regressive laws are often targeting locals instead of tourists, and especially not tourists from wealthy countries. It's awesome that you can be and are proudly out, but locals are also discreet for a reason. That said, I think that you are having a positive impact with your interactions, so don't stop being you!
"If I’m in contact with a hotel in advance, I’ll make it clear that I’m traveling with my husband, so that they’re clear on what the relationship is, and that booking a room with one bed isn’t a mistake; whether or not they process that correctly is a different story"
Aren't you making it more difficult than it really is? I have been married to my wife for over 25 years and don't remember ever...
"If I’m in contact with a hotel in advance, I’ll make it clear that I’m traveling with my husband, so that they’re clear on what the relationship is, and that booking a room with one bed isn’t a mistake; whether or not they process that correctly is a different story"
Aren't you making it more difficult than it really is? I have been married to my wife for over 25 years and don't remember ever having to tell a hotel I was traveling with my wife or even giving her name of gender at the time of the reservation. I book a room for 2 and that is all I need. Many times I travel with one of my sons and I try to book a room with 2 beds but sometimes that is not available. I then book a room for 2, no need to explain I am traveling with my son. I haven't done that in the ME but anywhere in the US, South America, Asia, Europe, I was never asked who was staying in the room with me.
Yeah, maybe not necessary, but several times I've walked up to the desk to check in for a hotel and when they pull up that we have a king bed for two guys, they ask if we want two queens instead.
That was exactly my point. I don't see the need to tell anything in advance as the worst case scenario is what you just described above and all you have to say at the time of the reservation is that you still want one bed. I usually have a problem giving too much information when it is not really needed. Sometimes it opens up an opportunity for questions that are not relevant to the stay....
That was exactly my point. I don't see the need to tell anything in advance as the worst case scenario is what you just described above and all you have to say at the time of the reservation is that you still want one bed. I usually have a problem giving too much information when it is not really needed. Sometimes it opens up an opportunity for questions that are not relevant to the stay. I need a room for 2 and I chose 1 bed. I think that is enough for a hotel reservation. The only time I share more is if for example when I booked 2 rooms and needed them to be next to each other (had kids) or needed a room with a connecting door.
LOL .. Are you sure the check-in staff wasn't being snarky with referring to the ' queen " beds option ? .... Sorry, couldn't resist ... at least I got a chuckle out of your comment, although not for your intention.... :)
I don't take Ben's approach, but I think what you're missing is just how often when it's two men checking into a hotel, the front desk will assume you're not a couple and proactively give you a room with two beds even when that's not what you booked. My sense is this doesn't happen to straight couples. Being upfront about your status can avoid this issue later.
When we are dating or married and it was just us, we go without care if that country is gay friendly or not. We flew Qatar airlines without hesitation. we would never flaunt our gayness, we dont hold hands or PDA in not so gay friendly countries. When we visited Kenya and Egypt, despite our obvious matching rings on our fingers, we get questions on what we are, coworker or friends? are you guys married...
When we are dating or married and it was just us, we go without care if that country is gay friendly or not. We flew Qatar airlines without hesitation. we would never flaunt our gayness, we dont hold hands or PDA in not so gay friendly countries. When we visited Kenya and Egypt, despite our obvious matching rings on our fingers, we get questions on what we are, coworker or friends? are you guys married (to girls i assume) which we would simply say yes just not point to each other. We didn't feel offended nor the need to be out at all. We just say we are best friends if asked, which in reality we are..
it is only 22months ago that we had our son, we only been to NL, Indonesia, Singapore, Japan and Chile so far. I like to think it is more of choosing a child-friendly destinations to visit rather than gay-friendly ones, but then we would avoid gulf airlines now, so maybe we are subconsciously scared to put our family in potentially awkward/difficult situations.. So yes, our philosophy and approach in travels has definitely changed since we had him. But gay or not, I would think this is the case for any new family with a young child though?
“oh I’m just waiting on my husband”…I bet your entire hidden purpose for this article was just to tell Ford he is always too slow. Lol, just kidding
Straight middle aged white guy here & I appreciated this. My sis in law recently came out late in life with her friend, who is now her fiancé. I'm the unofficial family travel planner, so this helps me get some perspective on how to help approach their travels or even a family trip.
Is this the same 'Mike P' who comments at VFTW? If so, and even if not, just wanna say that's cool, Mike. You seem like a good brother-in-law and (I'd say, very much 'official') family travel planner. Safe travels!
Hi Ben, I agree, from personal experience, with most of what you are saying. My disagreement remains on Middle Eastern places. The hedge you deploy is ‘be respectful of local customs’, but these are applied arbitrarily in those places, and that’s what makes them dangerous. There’s no natural justice for someone identified as gay in Qatar. Look at reports from Human Rights Watch for a reality check vs anecdotes of gay travellers who managed to escape unscathed.