Sorry Anti-Maskers, Delta Air Lines Is Onto You

Filed Under: Delta

Delta Air Lines has just taken a major step towards making it harder for anti-maskers to fly with the airline.

Airlines have a face mask enforcement problem

At this point all major US airlines require passengers to wear face masks when flying. In general face mask usage on planes is much more consistent than virtually anywhere on the ground. However, there are two major issues:

  • Passengers don’t have to wear a face mask when eating or drinking, and some people really take their time with this
  • The much bigger issue is that airlines have a face mask exception for those who have a disability or medical reason for why they can’t wear a mask

If someone has a medical reason for why they can’t wear a mask, that’s fine (though they really should avoid flying as much as possible, since they’re putting others at risk). However, as you’d expect, we’ve also seen several stories of passengers faking a medical condition in order to “exercise their freedoms.”

Airlines are understandably in a tough spot, since a gate agent or flight attendant isn’t qualified to assess someone’s medical condition, and that also sounds like a lawsuit waiting to happen.

Fortunately Delta has come up with a crafty solution, as bringing a copy of the Constitution and a “face mask exempt card” that you printed at home will no longer do the trick…

How Delta is improving face mask enforcement

Delta Air Lines has made changes to its face mask policy, and I love the way the Atlanta-based airline went about this. First of all, Delta states::

“Customers with health conditions or disabilities that explicitly prevent the wearing of a face covering or mask are strongly encouraged to reconsider travel”

But this is where it gets good. Those passengers who do have a condition should show up at the airport early to complete a “Clearance-to-Fly” process prior to departure, which could take over an hour. This process will include a virtual consultation with a healthcare professional, who will consider your circumstances, and could make exceptions on a case-by-case basis.

Any passenger found to be making false claims about a disability or health conditions in order to obtain an exemption may have travel privileges on all Delta flights suspended for as long as the airline is requiring passengers to wear face masks.

As a Delta spokesperson explains:

“Medical research tells us that wearing a mask is one of the most effective ways to reduce the COVID-19 infection rate. That’s why Delta remains committed to requiring customers and employees to wear a mask or face covering as a consistent layer of protection across all Delta touchpoints. We encourage customers who are prevented from wearing a mask due to a health condition to reconsider travel. If they decide to travel, they will be welcome to fly upon completing a virtual consultation prior to departure at the airport to ensure everyone’s safety, because nothing is more important.”

Bottom line

For the most part airlines have done a better job with mask usage than just about any other industry, in my experience.

While it’s fortunately only a very small minority of travelers who are refusing to wear face masks, it’s nice to see that Delta is taking a step towards combatting this.

Those who feel they have a medical condition that prevents them from wearing a mask should expect to have a virtual consultation with a healthcare professional at the airport, and that process could take over an hour.

Hopefully other airlines introduce similar policies…

(Tip of the hat to Paddle Your Own Kanoo)

Comments
  1. Nice move by Delta. So because of my severe and legit medical condition I will need to be punished by an additional hour of screening every time I fly with Delta. I’m sure during this process I’ll have to share the details of my condition with Delta employees and maybe even with nearby passengers. Awesome.

  2. Just wear a mask. It’s not THAT big of an inconvenience. Don’t wear it for yourself, wear it for the strangers around you that may be, or know someone that may be, more susceptible to illness.

  3. “though they really should avoid flying as much as possible, since they’re putting others at risk”

    All Americans should avoid flying and travelling full stop. Your country has failed disastrously in containing this virus. Yet you see to think you are entitled to travel as you please and in Lucky’s case, go overseas.

  4. What medical condition is it that these folks are claiming as the reason they can’t wear a mask. I have emphysema and I wear a mask and I don’t have a mild case of emphysema either.

  5. Totally agree with @Jetiquette & @Carry!
    Just ware a mask if you wanna fly! If you have any reason to not ware one just stay at home! I still don’t understand those morons who have any problem to follow rules. Unfortunately this is a universal problem, not only in the US.

  6. Companies have to say that there are always exceptions but there really is no medical condition that absolutely forbids mask wearing.

    Even severe respiratory issues like mentioned above with emphysema can utilize a mask.

    So this is a great way for those COVidiots not to be able to hide behind HIPAA and avoid wearing masks. Sorry DaninMCI!

  7. As a constitutional attorney, I can tell you that my office will have a field day with this. ADA compliance lawsuits have brought us literally millions! The silly thing is, people like Lucky are cheering the airlines on for making decisions like this which will directly result in increased expenses for the airlines… leading to increased costs for consumers in the end.

  8. @pete thanks for shaming me over my medical condition. Do you hate on people in wheelchairs or with walkers also? I assume you hate folks who early board the plane as well. Ever passed out from an asthma attack or heart ailment? This sort of thought process is why this is an ADA issue. I’m avoiding flying right now as much as possible but many can’t drive to cancer treatments across the country or travel for urgent needs.

  9. “Nice move by Delta. So because of my severe and legit medical condition I will need to be punished by an additional hour of screening every time I fly with Delta.”

    So there are two possibilities here:

    1) You’re too sick and frail from this “severe and legit medical condition” to safely be packed into a closed space for several hours with strangers, in which case you shouldn’t be flying

    2) You are healthy enough to wear a mask

    I have said for a while that “mask exemption” is going to be the new “support animal” scam for the entitled and obstinate on planes. We will see more people like this poster and the woman who refused to wear a mask in a Starbucks because she had uterine fibroids.

  10. It’s the new emotional support Anyone Karen and Kevin can print off these exemption cards and claim they have a “ condition “
    If you don’t want to wear one then as they said , reconsider. Charter a gulfstream or drive a car cross county if you can

    It’s the same going into a store. Don’t want to wear a mask then do your business online

  11. @ DaninMCI — Question for you… how would you like to see airlines discourage people from faking medical issues in order to not wear masks? Surely you recognize that in general people should be wearing masks as much as possible, and you don’t want to be grouped in with those who are faking medical conditions for political reasons.

  12. @DanInMCI: I’m curious to know what type of ailment would be hindered by the person wearing a thin bandana folded in half while being completely sedentary. That barely does anything to airflow compared to wearing nothing at all.

    If blaming anyone for this, blame the idiots who falsely claim a medical need for a mask because they feel it’s an affront on their rights to wear one. If the tiny, tiny fraction of a percent of people who legitimately need to go without a mask were the only ones doing it, Delta wouldn’t need to institute this policy.

  13. Another solution would be to provide face shields for those who claim they can’t wear masks. There is no valid argument that would support not being able to wear a shield. I’d like to see them come up with an excuse for that!

  14. While I strongly believe in mask wearing to protect other people, there are legitimate conditions that may preclude wearing of a mask such as PTSD (can cause panic attacks) or certain severe hearing impairments (the mask interferes with the hearing aid due to echo bounce). Please wear a mask if you are able, but please do not automatically assume someone should be shamed.

  15. @DaninMCI, don’t worry, you won’t have to disclose your condition in public. According to Delta,
    “….The evaluation will be done in private with STAT-MD, Delta’s partner for in-flight emergency consultations, which is based at the University of Pittsburgh Medical Center…”. And if you’re approved, they will inform the crew onboard that you have a legit medical condition, and you won’t be bothered about the mask aboard either.

  16. Idk why you make such a fuss about it there in the states. Here in EU, the maskless countries were the best ones in slowing down covid infections (Denmark, Norway, Iceland, Switzerland, Finland)

    Also my Sweden did very well, according to national head epidemiologist, almost 40% of Stockholm’s population already got infected – we still have just 5000 deaths nationwide in total, our hospitals never got full. Moreover, we will have no second wave, as large sections of our society are already immune.

  17. I’ll split the baby: If Delta wants to impose this as a one-off (that is, “You come in once, we have a virtual consultation, and then we append a permanent note to your SkyPesos account and you get an additional slip from us to go with your Boarding Pass going forward”) I think that is not entirely unreasonable (and I expect that “May take up to one hour” is Delta being overly cautious…a lot of cases are gonna be pretty open-and-shut and take perhaps fifteen minutes, but the risk of a queue is always there). They *might* run into ADA issues (along the lines of the “extra time down the jetbridge” abusers over at WN/”Jetbridge Jesus” folks) but…IANAL but this seems reasonable.

    On the other hand, I suspect that requiring someone who has been approved for a chronic condition (whatever that might be) to show up early every time they fly is likely to run into an ADA complaint. I know they’re trying to be aggressive with discouraging folks from using/abusing this, but I don’t think someone with a relevant condition being forced to show up for a “consultation” on both legs of a round-trip is a reasonable burden.

    I think the bigger question would be why they’re not arranging for these consultations to be done by reservation in advance (and producing a letter that would be cross-referenced with the name(s) of the traveler(s))? To the extent that this is likely to skew towards an older travel crowd, I can see there being some real issues come fall with the snowbird crowd.

  18. I know someone who was raped and her rapist put a mask on her. She is medically exempt per her psychologist.

  19. Have a medical condition that prevents you to wear a mask or need to travel with an animal to feel comfortable inside a metal tube at 30k ft? STAY HOME!!!!!! As simple as that.

  20. Interesting as some flight attendants on YouTube are saying that they are medically exempt from wearing a mask and tell those who complain that they should mind their own business. Not sure why they are allowed to be working a flight knowing that they are putting not only passengers at risk but also their fellow employees. Good for Delta.

  21. @DaninMcI
    I’m not shaming you for your asthma, I’m shaming you if you think your “special” asthma exempts you from following rules that people with more severe respiratory conditions have no issues following.

    I don’t shame people in walkers or wheelchairs; I do shame them if they take advantage of the situation when they don’t need to be using walkers or wheelchairs.

    If you feel so strongly then undergo a HIPAA-compliant medical consultation.
    Surely you have nothing to hide…

  22. Hi.
    So I will go out on a limb and tell you that I flew recently and my HCP has issues with me wearing a mask for my cross country flight the entire time. I am pregnant and have a very hard time catching my breathe on a normal circumstance. I wore my mask on/off the plane, to get up and go to the restroom on the plane and sat in between members of my family (who wore masks) in the middle seat. I wore my mask for as much of the time as I could. I had a drs note that was signed and dated explaining this.
    I was not being a “Karen” and I am
    Not an anti-masker.

    My question is how will the Delta Drs have time to get everyone’s medical background and information to make executive decisions for someone’s actual medical health.. and further would they go against my actual Dr who wrote the note.

    I’m not planning on flying anymore as my state recently became a hot zone and it’s just not safe for me at this time but curious on the process.

  23. Isn’t the requirement to fasten your seatbelt before take-off and landing a similar infringement of ones constitutional rights? What about traffic rules? A STOP sign, or even worse a red light does seriously limit my personal liberty … There are hundreds of rules and regulations that govern our everyday live ( and some make very limited sense) – why don’t they trigger the same response in people?

  24. “There are no known medical conditions aside from a severe skin condition [like a very severe burn that needs medical attention] on your face that would prevent a person from wearing this type of mask,” David Kaufman, MD, pulmonologist and director of the medical ICU at Tisch Hospital, tells Health. “If you can wear a scarf to keep your face warm in the winter, you can wear a mask to prevent the spread of disease.”

    https://www.health.com/condition/infectious-diseases/coronavirus/can-you-be-medically-exempt-from-wearing-a-face-mask

    If this is wrong, can someone please provide examples of medical conditions that would preclude wearing the sort of mask required on planes?

    The CDC cites only three groups of people who should not wear masks:

    1. Children younger than 2 years old
    2. Anyone who has trouble breathing
    3. Anyone who is unconscious, incapacitated, or otherwise unable to remove the cloth face covering without assistance.

    If you fall into categories 2 and 3 you probably should not confined to metal tube 30,000 feet in the air for several hours anyway.

  25. You can tell Ron Perkins is lying up above. He claims to be a “constitutional attorney” and then expresses his anticipation for enforcing the ADA.

    ADA suits proceed under a statutory cause of action. They do not implicate the Constitution at all.

    Only the most fly-by-night attorneys are going to bring ADA suits against this policy. Rob isn’t even that, though…just an angry internet commenter dressing up his anger in fake expertise.

  26. @DaninMCI – Looks like you’re in the minority here. People using wheelchairs and walkers aren’t doing anything to potentially kill the people sitting next to them.

  27. Bravo Delta! I am glad that they continue to take COVID seriously and step up where our government has failed us. I’m an ATL based Platinum medallion that is glad to see Delta providing a path forward to protect people who have to travel and the people who come into contact with those travelers later on. If I need to travel, it will be with Delta.

  28. I don’t like wearing a mask but I do so when asked when I fly or enter a retail establishment because it is asked of me.

    However, pseudoscience is not the new religion. There are no set of scientific studies that conclusively show the efficacy of wearing a mask to prevent or slow virus transmission and some of the masks that many wear are particularly porous. Yet, there is also no conclusive evidence that mask wearing is deleterious.

    Furthermore, there are valid physical/emotional reasons why some may not be able to comply with such a rule. I would think that it would be inconvenient but relatively easy for these individuals to procure a letter from their physician or psychologist attesting to this. For Delta to insist upon a person arriving early at an airport so as to mandate a meeting with a health professional not of a patient’s choosing is problematic. I’m not an attorney, but I see problems with the ADA as noted above by a poster who apparently is an attorney.

    In addition, does a mask requirement when flying comply with State and Federal Constitutions? I’ll leave those arguments for constitutional attorneys and scholars, but I think there are legitimate issues and questions to be raised. I’d like to think that this still matters as opposed to mob rule based upon what makes one feel good or feel safe.

  29. I have asthma and wear masks. In fact triple layer masks can be quite effective during pollen season or when mowing the lawn or dusting to prevent asthma flare ups. I also sleep with a mask when in a hotel with a moldy air conditioning system. Those of us with breathing difficulties (asthma has resulted in 3 ICU visits) can wear masks.

  30. 2 bottles of water filled at the airport and a bag of trail mix brought along and placed on the tray will last me a transcon easily to take off the mask for almost the entire time. Very happy to use the rules to my advantage.

    Flying is awesome now because all of the whining Karens are sitting at home, hope that they stay there.

  31. These people who feel as though they are being victimized by having to wear a mask are unbelievably self-absorbed.

    Masks are to protect others. Is your need to travel is so critical that you can rationalize potentially exposing hundreds of people? If so, then get tested and quarantine yourself up to the departure of your flight.

    Don’t pose yourself as the victim here. Wake up and see what’s going on around you!

  32. @Ben L. – Not only that, but Ron Perkins would be a terribly ineffective advocate for his clients if he thinks the ADA governs air travel. It does not; only the Air Carrier Access Act applies.

  33. The CDC cites only three groups of people who should not wear masks:

    1. Children younger than 2 years old
    2. Anyone who has trouble breathing
    3. Anyone who is unconscious, incapacitated, or otherwise unable to remove the cloth face covering without assistance.

    If you fall into category 2, you probably should not be confined to a metal tube 30,000 in the air for hours a long way from emergency medical treatment. If you fall into category 3, you should not be flying for fairly obvious reasons. If you fall into category 1, you are probably not reading these comments anyway so I will refrain from comment.

  34. So I used to do ADA compliance at my old job. The definition is actually worded, “anything condition that impairs a critical life function.” Which can be anything you define it to be, and you are not required to disclose your condition to anyone. Also, the entity or airline in question, must, yes, must accommodate your condition, no questions asked. It’s insanity.

  35. @KevinS – I disagree. If someone refuses to wear a mask while flying because it simply makes them uncomfortable they are at least behaving like they fall in category number 1. 😉

  36. @DaninMCI
    I didn’t see how Pete shamed on you his original message. Btw, I was stopping for take out in the Grapevine yesterday and a lady was telling someone she has one final chemo to go and she was wearing an N95 mask (probably issued by the hospital). If you are undergoing cancer treatment first I wishes you speedy recovery and I surely hope that you are wearing N95 mask whenever you are outside because of the impaired immunity system.

  37. We are totally anonymous here unless we choose not to be. I have asked on numerous other boards I read for someone who claims to be unable to wear a mask to tell what medical condition they might have that precludes that and not one person has replied. My relative has severe asthma and wears a mask.

    I saw up thread that someone said an acquaintance was raped and has a note from a psychologist. Psychologists are not medical doctors and while I feel horrible for that person, I’d think s/he needs to see a medical doctor for that exemption. Just having the ability to use the Dr. abbreviation does not mean one went to medical school.

    Can anyone (anonymously again) tell me what medical condition makes them unable to wear a mask? Thank you.

  38. Ahhh yes, a another day and another exciting post on the new blog – “One Mask at a Time.” :).

  39. @Johan – Idk why you make such a fuss about it there in the states.

    Are you willfully ignorant to what is happening here? In case you haven’t noticed, we aren’t Sweden. We have about a quarter of all covid cases and deaths in the world and 4% of the population. We are at looking at more than double our peak daily cases in April. Also here in the US, the Northeastern states are the ones most frequently wearing masks and they are doing the best. Brazil has adopted Sweden’s strategy and they are probably the only country doing worse than us.

    Also FYI, herd immunity only occurs around 90% meaning you have PLENTY more people to get infected. Also your 5600 deaths equates to a mortality rate around 30 percent higher than that of the United States adjusting for population size, which is also the 5th highest in the world. Denmark, Finland and Norway have left you out of border reopening because of your lackadaisical policies. But you didn’t mention any of that.

    Honestly, not enough fuss is being made.

  40. @DaninMCI, you don’t have a medical condition that keeps you from wearing a mask, you just think you do.

    Thank you Delta for finally protecting sane people.

  41. Amazingly while miniscule minority is arguing about cons of using mask thousands are dying and placed in referigerated yrucks ..I think these anti makers are probably anti vaxxars, climate change deniers but believers when it comes to hydroxychloroquin. Fortunately America thrives inspite of them.

  42. @Ron, we have now ruled out at least 2 careers that you don’t have, lawyer and physician. We may as well throw scientist in there, too. So what IS your real job? According to the best evidence we have (and the scads of other countries not having the problems that the US HAS), masks are the simplest, most effective way to prevent the spread. Why is this such an issue? Americans are determined to kill themselves to prove how anti science they are! Too many loonies there!

  43. @Johan “Also my Sweden did very well, according to national head epidemiologist, almost 40% of Stockholm’s population already got infected – we still have just 5000 deaths nationwide in total, our hospitals never got full. Moreover, we will have no second wave, as large sections of our society are already immune.”

    This is wrong on almost every level. You’re either a spokesman for Stefan Lofven or hoping no one will bother to challenge your fictitious claims here.

    Facts:

    – Sweden’s mortality rate per capita is higher than the US
    – “Large sections of your society” are not immune. Stockholm, with the greatest prevalence, has around 10% of its population testing positive for antibodies. However, even this antibody response diminishes dramatically 3 months post-infection
    – The reason ICUs never filled is that the hospitals decided to let elderly people with coronavirus die in regular hospital beds. They assumed before the fact that transferring them to a higher level of care was pointless.
    – Comparing yourself to the rest of Scandinavia is laughable. Sweden has by far handled the outbreak the worst. Norway and Denmark and the rest didn’t need to require masks, because masks are a way of mitigating risk in a country that has not contained the virus. Those other countries did the right thing, shut down, and contained the virus. Masks are damage control when you don’t do the epidemiological hard work on the front end, ending up where the US and Sweden are now.

  44. So great to see the leadership coming out of Washington to keep Americans safe!

    Oh, … wait ….

  45. @caren throatt,

    Sure, I can answer that for you. Approximately two decades ago I was diagnosed with cyanide poisoning that was caused by my job at a manufacturing plant. I have had lung issues since that time and have had many issues with hypoxemia that were brought on by the lung damage that always has my blood oxygen levels just below what is medically acceptable. This can cause me to faint or worst case scenario, cause organ damage and death.

    I carry medicine and an emergency inhaler, but forcing me to wear a mask in a lower oxygen environment like an aircraft flying at 35000ft for more than a few minutes is a risk to me. My doctor has provided a letter stating that I am medically advised not to wear any type of face covering that would risk lowering my blood oxygen content further.

    As for the case of “stay home you sick a-hole”, I travel as little as possible but, just as everyone else, there are reasons important enough to get on a plane and fly across the country. I’m responsible for my own health and safety and I take a risk assessment every time I leave the house – You cannot depend on the Government, the airlines, or in my case, former employer to take care of you – that’s YOUR job, YOU decide when to go, if you need a mask, if you should stop at the ATM and pickup some cash, if you should grab lunch after the security checkpoint, etc. Why on earth would you give those decisions to some politician, corporate VP or Bureaucrat.

  46. I flew this week on JetBlue and didn’t have a face mask on even for a second. That included both airports. Nobody made any comment. No doubt it helped that I flew in Mint. I have zero interest in validating obsessions of people in the midst of a mass psychosis.

  47. I’m absolutely blown away that humans are able to be 1/100th as shitty as DaninMCI. But to be that shitty AND pretend to be the victim is literally breaking through all previous rock bottoms of being an absolute garbage member of our society.

  48. “I have zero interest in validating obsessions of people in the midst of a mass psychosis.”

    “I’m an absolute rock bottom piece of garbage”.

    There, fixed your typos!

  49. @Kevin

    Great, then you shouldn’t really mind arriving at the airport a little early for the airline to give you the all clear for flying without a mask.

  50. @kevin: Our doctor either has no idea how respiratory physiology works or is just giving you a note to shut you up/get you to leave his/her office/just wants your insurance money/has an agenda besides healthcare.

    I am a physician. Unless you are wearing a mask with a large reservoir for exhaled air to accumulate in, there is no difference in the air you inhale with or wihout a face covering. If you wear a realtively tight-fitting mask that doesn’t allow exhaled air to accumulate (such as the commercially available washable ones), the oxygen concentration won’t change. Essentially, all exhaled air will be “gone” and replaced with new ambient air.

    See, all ends well! You can wear a protective (for others) mask after all!

  51. @ Stephen V – Actually, sir, I am a physician and have been for decades.

    There are anti-maskers who complain of liberty infringement and virtuous mask wearers who espouse moral superiority. I don’t fall into either category.

    Yet, I continue to maintain that there is not set of studies that conclusively proves the effectiveness of wearing a face mask in preventing a viral infection or significantly limiting its spread. If you can site these scientific studies – not news articles or proclamations by bloggers, politicians, or talking heads on cable news channels – please cite with links and I’ll be more than happy to read and educate myself.

    While you’re at it, please cite the in vivo studies that show the effectiveness or social distancing at 6 feet … rather than 5 feet or 7 feet, etc. Thank you.

  52. @grrizzly Glad to see you are using your advanced medical training to judge whether or not the scientific consensus of mask-wearing is true! I’m happy such freedom fighters such as yourself exist. Fight on, brother.

  53. @Ron

    I have not seen a study that shows the discomfort of wearing a mask outweighs the real life correlation between mask policies and infection rates.

    Completely idiotic to ask for studies that take years to get published in the middle of a pandemic, when there is well-established correlation between mask wearing and lower infection rates in real life, and little down side to wearing it.

  54. @Ron – Speaking as a physician myself, I’m dubious that any physician would ask for a study that “conclusively proves” something, when every physician knows our knowledge is provisional and all studies have inherent limitations. Cite me the study that “conclusively proves” patients with TB need to be placed in negative pressure isolation.

    As for the jibe about 6 feet vs. 5 or 7… well, first of all, a physician would also know that such a study is not “in vivo” but epidemiological by the very nature of the question. Your quip is akin to looking at JNC 8 BP goals and saying “OK, so why 140/90 and not 137/88?”

    Finally, with your undoubtedly limited free time as a healthcare provider in the middle of a pandemic (assuming you’re not an elective proceduralist like a plastic surgeon), why are you wasting so much of it concocting reasons not to follow a broadly-recommended health and safety measure?

    This is the most bizarre part of this discussion on social media. In any given day I choose to not wear thousands upon thousands of various clothes or accessories. I have never once gone on Facebook to post an extended screed as to why. Why so much effort to justify something you don’t do?

  55. Wait…so we have one Ron pretending to be a “Constitutional attorney” and one Ron pretending to be a physician. Both of which have been outted as being neither. This should be a good comment threat.

    Also, wear your masks folks.

  56. Because Ron is a physician but not a scientist. Some physicians dont think as scientists do, they just think.

  57. Its a shame that this issue was politicized and now a loud mouth minority claims special constitutional rights on public transportation. The newly minted experts also claim that there is no proof when most medical experts say the mask prevent disease. They don’t have a leg to stand on, legally or scientifically. Can they board the airplane in the nude? (“we have a constitutional right to not wear clothing”). In my opinion, the airlines should make these folks bring a doctor’s slip to check-in as their not wearing a mask may effect the health of the other passengers on the plane. If you want to make a political statement, drive without your mask. The sad part is because of this recklessness, the USA now is banned from flying to Europe

  58. Funny,I don’t ever recall such heartburn with the no shoes no shirt no service policy. The very people bitching about masks and their right to control their physical well being are the same one’s claiming the government can mandate abortion restrictions. Hypocrisy at its best.

  59. “You cannot depend on the Government, the airlines … to take care of you – that’s YOUR job, YOU decide when to go, if you need a mask, if you should stop at the ATM and pickup some cash, if you should grab lunch after the security checkpoint, etc. Why on earth would you give those decisions to some politician, corporate VP or Bureaucrat.”

    @Kevin. This is one of the dumbest arguments I’ve heard yet. Wearing a mask is primarily to protect others, not you. By your logic above, it should be your decision whether you go through a metal detector at the airport, it should be your decision whether you wear a seat belt on take off, it should be your decision if you want to stand up during landing. Our society is full of safety rules to protect others, mandated by the Government and by corporations like the airlines. The mask mandate is exactly the same. Wearing a mask protects others. It is not your right to put others at risk. Your argument is nonsense.

  60. Fake attorneys and people with fake medical conditions. And there are plenty of scientific studies showing how PPE can hinder the spread of diseases. It’s why your surgeon suits up. It’s why we have sneeze guards at the salad bar. And come on… if you’re the kind of person who lacks the common sense that applies to PPE in a global pandemic, you not the kind of person who could understand any of these studies in the first place.

    In any case, thanks for not wearing a mask. Like most folks, I’m just going to assume you’re a disease carrying moron.

  61. Well, my general point is that supposition is not evidence and that one should not disparage others with whom you disagree without evidence to back up your assertion. A little tolerance goes a long way. Seems in short supply these days.

    Assuming something is not the same as proving something.

    Saying something over and over again and saying it loudly does not make something truth. I refer you to Goebbels… Blindly following proclamations without questioning is not a good look.

  62. What medical condition prevents you from wearing a mask? You can’t visit a doctor without one

  63. I wear the stupid mask if required but it’s false to say that someone with a medical excuse is putting others at risk and should not travel. Someone with severe asthma, my brother, is putting himself at risk not others, if he chooses to fly. And that’s their choice. He doesn’t have a communicable disease but simply has trouble breathing with masks. So, let’s be fair with the finger wagging please.

  64. Noted on the ADA/ACAA mixup (since the ADA gets most of the attention [usually for all the wrong reasons], I think the ACAA ends up gets buried under it). Like I was saying earlier, this isn’t so much a question of Delta requiring X absent a condition…it is that Delta has, per the presentation above, arguably bent over backwards to make compliance onerous.

    As to the “shouldn’t fly” bit, the complaint I would offer there is that aside from driving (which may present its own issues), there are plenty of places where there’s no other way to get from A to B. In some cases, driving isn’t even an option (hello, Hawaii)…and over on the train front, the genius running Amtrak is trying to cut service on almost all overnight routes to 3x/week. So while there are people who shouldn’t be flying, due to a bad confluence of policies we really haven’t given them much choice. At least on an overnight train, a traveler could bottle themselves up in their room and have minimal contact with other people. But even /that/ isn’t necessarily viable in plenty of cases as-is (often due to reliability).

    It still isn’t clear to me where Delta will be if you have a doctor giving a diagnosis/explanation on this (either for a physical reason [the industrial cyanide poisoning case above is an example of something that isn’t likely to render the person in question as an invalid but it does present certain issues] or a mental one [another example above]) and Delta still refuses to transport. My guess is that they lose the case(s) in question on the basis of the current situation (requiring a day-of-travel “consultation” that can take over an hour); the only saving grace for them might be that the security-clearing time recommendations from before are likely mostly moot, so you can probably “find” a good chunk of time to deal with that. So they may have some cover there.

    With all of this being said, I think Delta may have made a judgment, not even irrationally, that they’ll get more business by taking a hard line on this and paying out to the government from losing a few cases than doing nothing.

  65. ((Please disregard the first version of my post if you pass one through on moderation. Sorry, because I didn’t make the login stick I thought it had vanished due to an IT gremlin.))

  66. If he has asthma he is in a very high risk group and shouldn’t be traveling or going out in the first place. And there are alternatives to masks, such as face shields.

    It’s insane how a bunch of grown ass adults will shit their pants when asked to take a very simple precaution. Grow a pair already.

  67. @Dan
    I think the issue is that the requirement isn’t “Face mask, or face shield or something else if you can’t wear a mask”, it’s “Face mask or bust”.

  68. Good move by Delta. People need to grow up. To the person talking about their asthma, I too have it and that’s WHY I wear a mask and why others need to too. I’m higher risk and everyone should be assuming that strangers they come into contact with is infected.

  69. @Ben you are right. It is very hard for Delta to weed out those claiming fake medical conditions as a way to avoid wearing masks. I think the comments so far demonstrate the hate for anyone with a disability to precludes them from wearing a mask for long periods. Frankly, I’m surprised at the ignorance and hate that I’ve read in the comments on this issue. I wear masks for as long as possible and avoid air travel (I’m sure many of the commentators above will be pleased but disappointed that they won’t be able to shame me at the airport). I wear a mask going into stores for short periods that I can control. I’m not anti-mask it is a real blood oxygen level issue for me. There is a reason why this sort of medical issue is covered by the ADA. At the end of the day, I just don’t see where Delta should have the right to require this. I don’t see them require doctor checks of people requesting wheelchairs or other special conditions but I guess that could be coming?

  70. The question for the Ron guy that claims to be a physician is why do dentists, surgeons, and other medical personnel wear masks and gloves in their practice. I always thought it was primarily because they didn’t want patients to transmit anything to them and, to a much lesser extent, vice versa. If you don’t want to wear a mask just stay home and you can do as you please there.

  71. Is it just me, or is Lucky fixated on masks? Yes, they help but they’re no miracle cure. They’re still allowing passengers from known hotspots to fly. I’m staying far away from those places, and I do not want them to come to my country, masked or not. To use an expression millennials might not understand: patience is a virtue.

  72. ADA covers things that happen at the airport before boarding the aircraft, e.g., checking in. Airports (in many cities) and airlines are insisting one wear a mask at that point.

    ACA covers transport, i.e., on-board the aircraft.

    Both apply to airlines at different point of the travel experience.

    Neither allows an airline to insist on disclosure of the medical reason why the person cannot comply. Full stop.

    It is foolish to expect others to protect you, particularly since there is no real evidence that masks work anyway. Everyone in Wuhan was already wearing mask prior to the outbreak and they were the epicenter of the pandemic. States that have had severe mask restrictions are still seeing a spike.

    You want to protect yourself? Stay home, wash your hands, and don’t touch your face. If you have to go out, wear a face shield. You are then protecting yourself.

  73. @Ron

    You are grasping at straws. Putting on a mask is a minor inconvenience, and if turns out not to help then so be it. But if masks do help (and actual real life stats indicate that it does), then not wearing a mask is a life or death situation. The consequence of the two are so different it’s completely disingenuous to present it as a matter of choice.

  74. Why are people mentioning the ADA when it comes to air travel at all? The ADA doesn’t govern commercial air travel. The ACAA covers it. Furthermore, the airline has no legal right to ask what a passenger’s disability is, but… a physician does. That’s what Delta has done. They’ve left that decision up to physicians. No legal issue there at all. Also, the US Constitution regulates the government. It provides no individual protections, rights or benefits of any kind, directly to individuals or corporations.

  75. OMG this is a great move by Delta. I hope other airlines follow suit. Especially since 99% of the people claiming they can’t wear facemasks for medical reasons are simply full of it. The fact they took this step makes me more likely to book Delta if I had to travel at the current time.

  76. “Everyone in Wuhan was already wearing mask prior to the outbreak and they were the epicenter of the pandemic.” This is probably the stupidest statement I have seen on the internet all day. Like everyone in Wuhan was walking around wearing a mask prior to the virus. Clearly a statement from someone who has never been to Wuhan or China.

  77. Shapewithoutform said: “ All Americans should avoid flying and travelling full stop. Your country has failed disastrously in containing this virus. Yet you see to think you are entitled to travel as you please and in Lucky’s case, go overseas.”.

    Why are you posting this silliness on a travel blog site? Why are you even here?

  78. Incidentally while the ACAA governs air travel the ADA also require business to adopt procedures such as mask requirements of all customer to protect those with disabilities to be able to shop in retail establishments so that they are not discriminated against.

  79. Lol let the lawyers have a field day. If you have a condition that precludes you from wearing a mask, you’re probably in a high risk category for COVID complications. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

    Wear the damn mask!

  80. For those who claim constitution issue with masks, wondering why they put on seat belts, stop at stop signs, wear helmets, have drivers license. Isn’t all that the government’s making you do something? Thanks Delta. Mask it or casket?

  81. Delta owns the plane, you just rent the seat your in, they are responsible for you while you are own their plane, it is their rules so follow it and please teach people how to wear a mask properly. I am tired of seeing people wear their mask around their chin.

  82. @Ron (and others claiming there is no “proven” benefit): Others have said it, but I will express again… Everything done in medicine is based on risk/cost vs benefit. The cost/risk of wearing a mask vs the societal benefit makes it wise to apply and enforce it. As others have said, you don’t need a randomized trial for everything in medicine. Application of respiratory germ theory and community medicine principles justify the wearing of masks. For the record, I don’t pretend that our comments won’t prevent you from talking/thinking like an idiot, it’s to convince the others who are reading and willing to think critically that you are an idiot. If you refuse to wear a mask because of your ignorance, but 100 other people do once after reading your ignorance, I’ll be a happy man.

  83. As @cmorgan has indicated, I’m not sure why people actively read a travel blog and then complain about reading travel-related issues. Thank you, @Lucky and staff, for providing a perspective and your experience while traveling. It’s why I and many others are here.

    I think Ricky Gervais said it best… “People can choose to read my tweet and then take that personally… That’s like going into a town square, seeing a notice on a noticeboard saying “Guitar Lessons”, and you go…”BUT I DON’T WANT F****** GUITAR LESSONS!”

  84. It still amazes me this has become a political or a constitutional issue. This is basic science, although I know that many Americans are increasingly rejecting science, which is depressing.

    This is not an issue of personal freedom, because you are protecting others, not just yourself, by wearing a mask. Rejecting a mask directly implies harm to the community, and that was never a “freedom” granted by the constitution.

    For the very tiny minority of people with legitimate medical reasons to avoid this, they should have no problem establishing this through Delta’s process. However I would also question why someone with such a sever condition feels the need to travel by air right now.

    Wear a mask, or stay at home!

  85. Honestly, if you can’t wear a mask, what are you going to do if the cabin looses pressurization? Well done Delta.

  86. How many dead in the USA how many have tested positive – let’s look at the rest of the world – Americans !!!!! Damn

  87. @DaninMCI
    “I think the comments so far demonstrate the hate for anyone with a disability to precludes them from wearing a mask for long periods. Frankly, I’m surprised at the ignorance and hate that I’ve read in the comments on this issue.”
    Everyone here is hating on the fakers using legit medical exemption to be selfish… NO ONE here has said anything remotely hateful against people with legitimate health issues. If you feel attacked, it’s in your own head.

    “I’m not anti-mask it is a real blood oxygen level issue for me.”
    No, it is not. It is 100% proven that cloth masks have ZERO effect on blood oxygen levels. 100%. Just breathe normally, and stop lying on the internet for attention.

  88. While I’m unaware of any conditions that would truly preclude someone from wearing a mask, there probably are some, but they are rare and effect a small minority of the population. For those people’s sake, the rest of us should be wearing masks to curb spread. This is no different than the few people who actually have a medical reason that makes them unable to get a vaccine – they need to rely on everyone else getting one to protect them. And for all those that still believe there’s no evidence of the benefits to wearing masks I suggest you take the time to read this case study published by the CDC yesterday.

    https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6928e2.htm

    No it’s not conclusive evidence – not sure who made that inane comment above – but it’s damn convincing and indicates mask wearing is probably worth giving a shot so we might actually get back to some level of normalcy in the foreseeable future which is something I have to imagine we all want.

  89. Too many comments already, but I do want to add my bit.

    I have high cholesterol and heart issues, and wearing a mask is extremely uncomfortable for me. I feel extremely out of breath. When wearing the masks, which would actually do something, like an N95, I feel suffocated and nauseous. I can manage with fabric masks or a pocket square turned into a face covering, but even then I get feelings of nausea, especially walking through stations and airports.

    I wear one because its the rules, but, I doubt a piece of fabric that is allowing air through, is not letting the virus through! Nowhere I know specifies that it has to be a medical grade mask.

    What’s the point of all this?

    – Lockdowns do not kill the virus, people can’t stay home forever, that’s why lockdowns are being lifted. Delaying things to not burden medical facilities is total fallacy, here in the UK the government has paid people’s wages for 6 months! They have paid business billions. They have cut billions in taxes. That money invested into medical facilities would certainly address any capacity issues.

    – Masks let air through, the virus is small enough to get into the mask.

    – Masks, when taken off, are put on surfaces, and make it even more likely to put the virus right into your face!

    – This other maddening pseudoscience practice of putting takeaways on the floor, rather than handing them to people. For goodness sake, the floor is always the dirtiest place, shoes can carry absolutely millions of viruses very rapidly. Both parties should wash hands, and face away from each other, but hand it to the person!!

    Many have their own opinions, lockdowns and mask are suppressants at best, pseudoscience in my opinion.

    Things that work:

    – Medication & Vaccines that address the disease.

    – Mass antiviral cleaning of all areas.

    – Not being a complete moron, and going close to people when its really not required. Shockingly, people seem to think masks work, but those same people have no issue coming close, taking in your face etc. They clearly don’t understand that a virus is smaller than a gap in a weave! The number of times I’ve crossed the road, or waited on a corner whilst some idiot thinks its ok to walk inches away from me is innumerable.

  90. I will be traveling from the Philippines to New Orleans, Louisiana. This is a 25-27 hr trip, plus 3 hrs in Manila airport before departure. Does this mean
    I will be required to wear a mask for 30 hours?

  91. It’s a shame that discrimination is being allowed. I do not have covid. I also don’t need to wear a mask. I also have issues wearing the mask. I wear one for work. The build up in snot, the frequent use of my inhaler after working again is horrible. I went from using my inhaler maybe once a month now a twice daily thing.

    So these people shaming and discriminating the healthy uninfected for emotional security is hella insulting.

  92. Putting aside the public health merit of the policy (and the somewhat politicized debate in the comments above), DL’s policy likely violates the Air Carrier Access Act:

    First, the ACAA regulations are clear that a carrier may not require a passenger to provide a medical certificate documenting a disability, except in limited circumstances not applicable here:

    “14 CFR § 382.23 May carriers require a passenger with a disability to provide a medical certificate?
    (a) Except as provided in this section, you must not require a passenger with a disability to have a medical certificate as a condition for being provided transportation…“

    Second, the ACAA regulations also prohibit airlines from requiring passengers who need disability accommodations to provide advance notice of the need for accommodation (again subject to certain exceptions not relevant here:

    “14 CFR § 382.27 May a carrier require a passenger with a disability to provide advance notice in order to obtain certain specific services in connection with a flight?
    (a) Except as provided in paragraph (b) of this section and § 382.133(e)(4) and (5) and (f)(5) and (6), as a carrier you must not require a passenger with a disability to provide advance notice in order to obtain services or accommodations required by this part…”

    In this regard, the ACAA is largely indistinguishable from the ADA. Assuming the policy is (and is implemented) as described in the post, the legal analysis would be the same as if a supermarket required a customer to have a virtual medical certification before entering without a mask. That would clearly violate the ADA.

    Does this create the risk for abuse? Of course. But it also ensures that those with actual disabilities are not singled out for unequal treatment.

  93. @Johan

    Your numbers are quite misleading. The PER CAPITA number of COVID-19 cases in Sweden is actually higher than the US. Additionally, the case fatality rate in Sweden is over 7%. Again, this number is higher than the US. You assert that Sweden will have some sort of herd immunity, preventing a second wave of cases. Yet, there is NO scientific evidence to support this.

    Please do some research before speaking.

  94. @Johan

    ‘Just 5000 people dead’ in a country of 10 million people? At that rate, it means US would have 165K dead at our current population of 331M. Funny that you seem to think that’s a win for Sweden’s herd immunity effort even when your politicians think they have failed

  95. The ADA requires “reasonable accommodations” that doesn’t pose an “undue hardship” on the business and its employees. Not “any accommodation you think you’re entitled to”. There are exceptions in the ADA where accommodations do not have to be provided if they’ll put the safety of employees and customers at risk. This is why stores and other private businesses can ban people who can’t wear a mask. Curbside pickup or an employee offering to shop for them can be considered a reasonable accommodation. But being expected to expose their employees to a virus during a pandemic could be considered an “undue hardship” and then they are exempt from providing an accommodation.

  96. Wow . To all you that condem people with medical or mental health issues be thankful for the blessed life you have lived. I am a honorably discharged combat veteran that was injured and I cannot wear a mask. For all you big mouths out their preaching about masks why don’t you spend some time fighting for those rights that myself and other soldiers have fought for so you can criticize and make us feel like we are making our problems up. As an American I have rights if I want to fly I am entitled to fly if I need to be medically screened then I will,so all you be careful how you treat others because you live in the land of the free and not in some third world country where you opinions would mean death. If anyone needs further medical documentation from me please email me and i will gladly share my injuries and experiences with you so you can further stand on your soap box and criticize people [email protected]

  97. DANMCI, I don’t think wheelchairs or walkers can do harm to others. But even if your medical exemption to wearing a mask is legit, should that give you the right to endanger the health of everyone else on that plane?

    I’m sure you can team up with Ron Perkins. He seems eager to jump on the sue everybody else bandwagon. Can’t wait for that pay day eh Ron?

    If the pilot has a medical condition that disqualifies him from flying the plane for safety reasons, maybe he can cry discrimination and still operate the plane regardless of endangering the passenger’s lives. Ron, you can jump on that one too, lol.

  98. Newsworthy information drenched in snarky junior high school “gotcha nanny nannny boo boo’ drivel. The fact is the ‘experts’ have been and are all over the place re ‘the science’. As it relates to the virus, quite inconsistent. Is it surprising some people respond inconsistently? Most comply following the path of least resistance but regardless of snarky media bullies, many many people doubt the official narrative.

  99. @Bill:

    Yes, I’ve been to China, Bill, and yes, they have long worn masks due to rampant pollution. Seems you have never been. And I know how to discuss an issue like a mature adult, a skill you clearly haven’t learned yet.

  100. Here we go again the Sensational Battle Of The Mask. The Self Righteous Soapbox Masked Yammers call for the expulsion of the Deplorable members of Society that would dare step foot into their Self Righteous Personal area Unmasked while the Constitutionally Free Unmasked People are screaming Civil Rights as Loudly as possible ……….But in total reality those Paper and Cloth strips everyone furiously cling to like protective armor against a dangerous bug after a few uncomfortable hours at overcrowded airports and uncomfortable flights are usless unless you are personally carrying or airlines are supplying additional fresh packaged mask for your safety. Society as a whole will don the mask and and head out thinking to themselves they are great little citizens but in truth the largest part of masked and Unmasked prople are totally either ignorant of the rules and guidelines of effective face coverings or they are educated of the C.D.C., as well as the W.H.O. and mutual other well qualified Medical Professionals and chose to ignore what they’ve heard or read and gamble that that Super Mask they’ve proudly placed upon their faces (and this goes for all the Airlines, the Airports, and the Enforcement personnel, Management working long hard full time or Part time shifts with the single customized or not mask also). You see the Guidelines pointedly inform you as to how your face covering only works. So if you at any time for whatever reason lift or remove your “mask” it then for all protective purposes becomes basicly unless. If the “mask” becomes wet or damp from whatever reason it becomes basically useless. There are a few more ways to maintain the chosen face covering while you travel. So before you self appoint yourselves being the good person or the bad person in this Pandemic Mask Saga educate yourself. Removing that single “mask” to eat, to drink, to apply makeup, to smoke, to get a refreshing breath of Unmasked fresh but possible Infectious air along with numerous other reasons just placed you into the argumentative Unmasked group rather you were seen or unseen by others.

  101. Here in Melbourne masks are being MANDATED for ALL people outside their own homes, from midnight Wednesday, on pain of a $200 fine.

    There’s one word for the anti-mask brigade – morons. If you fall for the conspiracy theories, you’re a moron. I’m tired of being nice about this, it makes no difference, so I’m going to be an ass about it – wear a mask, or you’re a total moron.

  102. I’m a hospitalist in Philadelphia. I take care of adults admitted to the hospital. When a pt has covid 19 and needs to be transported out of their room to go for a test or procedure it is our hospital’s policy that they must wear a mask. In my experience, no patients have had any serious medical issues wearing the mask, this includes patients with end stage copd, heart failure, lung cancer and asthma. I can see how maybe someone who is severely claustrophobic or has uncontrolled anxiety may have issues, but when flying on a plane I think it would be best to treat the anxiety instead of forgoing the mask.

  103. Do all you anti-maskers wear seatbelts? Or is that the federal government being too invasive with your civil liberties?

  104. Please help me understand. Why people claim not wearing a mask unconstitutional. When wearing a mask is to protect others, while they dont claimed unconstitutional to be force to wear a seatbelt?

  105. Way to goDelta. For those with legitimate health issues, I am sorry that you will have to go through a virtual consultation and face the inconvenience. I am fed up with people who genuinely believe that they are more important than others. I see it all the time with emotional support pets. My husband and I could qualify for that exemption but choose not to call attention to ourselves so we just pay the money each way for our dogs and make them stay in a carrier. I feel that so many people want to get attention in this me, me,me world.
    I hope the other airlines follow suit.

  106. Let’s have the “freedom fighters” of anti-maskers, those who claim it violates their civil liberties, is unconstitutional, and that the government should stay out of our lives so we can make our own decisions, consider and answer this:

    Did you send back your stimulus check? Because why should the government get involved in your financial affairs?

    Are you pro-choice on abortion? Because why should the government make that decision for you? My body/my choice, right?

    You are obviously in favor of same sex marriage, right? Because why should the government tell you who you can or cannot marry?

    You would also be in favor of LGBTQ rights, correct? Because why should the government decide some people are more equal than others?

    I would bet that many “freedom fighters” are really only interested in freedom and civil liberties when it is convenient for them and are not really serious about freedom for all.

  107. I’m a flight attendant. I had a psgr. Who had cardboard on a stick, and of course a doctor’s note. She was sitting in my exit row. I asked if she had a real mask. No I don’t have to, was her response I have a doctor’s note. Okay, I need you to sit here instead, pointing to a different seat . ( not an exit row ) . As a FA I am not allowed to ask what your medical issue is nor is a doctor allowed to tell me. HIPPA RULES. WITH this in mind don’t ask to sit in my Exit Row I need to think of everyone’s safety including my own. I have to stay in my lane. Doctors may be allowed to write notes but they are Not certified flight attendants,and I can remove you from my exit row.

  108. If the routes you need to fly have other options, just research flights with other carriers. I am willing to pay for a higher priced ticket w Delta and accommodate their guidelines for my additional safety. When flying, I also (recently) wore eye protection in addition to wearing my mask on a Delta flight. Droplets (of any kind) in the air supply easily enter your system through your permeable eyes. I work in health care with elders in a skilled nursing setting. I am taking every precaution on their behalf – and everyone in my midst. I have a number of friends who have severe asthma and they are purposely wearing masks because of their condition and the fact that C-19 attacks the lungs in a deadly way. One of these friends works in my health care setting. My brother-in-law is an ICU Charge Nurse and has been caring for C-19 patients, many of whom survive but then face chronic conditions caused be C-19.

  109. Please stick to the scripe….Wear. a mask,when flying aboard the aircraft….Listen this is for a reason and not a season…Adult up people…Please abide by Delta’s policy’s take your flight,arrive at your destination ….Enjoy your travel…You are not flying for a year or a month…So mask up..board your flight…buckle up….and prepare for take up…Remember DELTA IS READY” ONLY WHEN YOU ARE!! HAVE A SAFE FLIGHT!

  110. HIPPA does not rule! Google “who has to abide by HIPPA” It stand for Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act and has a very narrow scope. Any business outside of that scope can ask, and make decisions based on someone’s unwillingness to share that information.
    And under the ADA any business can refuse service to someone who does not comply with wearing a face mask when their presence could create a serious health and safety issue.
    Under the ADA businesses are required to make a reasonable accommodation. In the case of an airline cabin a reasonable accommodation to protect the other passengers and flight crew is not possible. Unless you want to get strapped to the wing.
    WEAR THE MASK or don’t fly.

  111. Willy you are no better than a karen. You are one if the reasons I seldom fly. Now i refuse to fly until there is a vaccination available. I hope the bathrooms re so busy on your next flight that you pee yourself.. or choke on your trail mix. Grow up.

  112. @Aaron (7/19 1:08am) —

    The ADA and ACAA require only reasonable accommodation, but no airline would win the argument that allowing someone with a medical condition to fly without a mask is not a reasonable accommodation. There is almost no burden on the airline.

    The better argument would be that flying without a mask presents a direct threat to health and safety (which is an exception to the reasonable accommodation requirement). But that is a very high standard to meet generally. And even harder here because there is only a direct threat if the passenger is actually sick. You cannot (legally) assume that a passenger is sick.

  113. I have never seen such stupidity in my whole life. I have medical conditions and because of that, I MUST wear a mask. I cannot get sick. I will not survive. I don’t know what issue a person can have that will cause more harm to not wear a mask and potentially get sick, versus wearing one. Another thing, abiding by the constitution of the US means following the LAW! The law states:wear a mask!!! I did not know Americans were so inconsiderate of each other AND lack basic comprehension.

  114. Can you site what medical research says that masks are the best way to fight COVID19? I would like to read them.

  115. @Karey Williams – cite. The typo sort of ruins your “I’m smarter than everyone else here” vibe.

  116. I am a flight attendant who has just been grounded for two weeks because I was exposed to Corona. Hopefully the masks were protecting me and everyone else.
    For those that don’t wear masks in air you could be taking someone’s job and health from them.
    Now what do I do for the next two weeks?

  117. @Ifyfar. Agreed!

    I work in a Cancer Center( chemo and radiation therapy patients) and everyone wears a mask.
    Reconsider travel or going to any establishment ( Amazon, Walmart etc delivers) if you do not want to wear a mask. It is not that difficult to follow rules.

  118. I’ll post this here, since people have trouble getting tested. Don’t wait in a line.
    Go to pixel.labcorp.com. Put in your insurance info and Labcorp will overnight a Covid 19 test.
    They include a return overnight package. It takes 5 minutes to swab yourself and re-package. Fedex will pick it up and return it next day.
    I did this last week and results were 3 days after they received it.

    I have Anthem Blue Cross which requires Quest Diagnostics but they are paying for Labcorp tests.
    If you want to pay cash its $119.

  119. @Karey Williams – don’t be a bloody idiot.

    UNTIL there is a vaccine, and UNLESS nobody ever leaves their house save for food stock-ups (which is not realistic at this point), masks are LITERALLY the least we can do that HELPS out your fellow citizens.

    Read the article from that not-exactly-liberal rag the WSJ I just posted to educate yourself.

  120. Never ceases to amaze me how ignorant the US population is. It’s time that we accept that this virus passed the point of being contained or controlled long ago. We are all going to be exposed, EVERYONE. What is the point of continuing to alienate your customers for NOTHING. Masks, six foot distancing, and all these other irritating placebos they have put in place do little or nothing to protect anyone. All they do is provide false hope to the ignorant masses and irritate those with enough intelligence to see through them. The bigger problem is giving fake hope to someone who may be at higher risk! It’s time to wake up and use what little brain power you have left folks. I know it takes effort, but get off your mental derriere and bother to think critically about these things. Those of us with the mental capacity and the willingness to see the truth in all this should not have to deal with the consequences of your stupidity or lack of willingness to use the brain you have.

  121. @Ryan Waldron: then by definition, delaying our inevitable exposure to coronavirus for as long as possible, by using masks and enforcing social distancing, gives us more time to develop vaccines and/or other treatments will lead to more lives being saved.

    Also, you seem overly preoccupied with your own superior intelligence.

  122. “@Flight Attendant says:
    HIPPA = Health Information Patient Privacy Act. For individuals who may not know .”

    Well, then. For those who desire to be misinformed, they can certainly rely on a flight attendant for health insurance information.

    It stands for “Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act”

    In your next job, I’m hoping it’s not handling my HIPPA records.

    But don’t worry, you’re not even close to providing important incorrect info.

    A friend of mine who is a flight attendant insists the Bill and Melinda Gates foundation wants to use the covid pandemic to implant everyone with some manner of device that does something I cant fathom–and has a patent number that starts with 666 of course– or my former vet , who has uncontrolled type I diabetes (getting readings of 400 for those who understand what that means) and refuses to wear a mask because she’s certain she understands constitutional law better than a real lawyer and “You have to die from something”

    I guess one does have to die from something ,but I’ll try not to die from her talking to me without a mask from 3 feet away . At least I was wearing a 3m N95.

    Sorry for the tangential comments but when I throw in the girl working at Subway who is certain 5G is causing chest tightness and Covid symptoms , and is certain of this because her boyfriend is in the military and the Army is revealing all the secret stuff to their PFC’s so they can pass it along to their gf’s, I’m not at all confident in the future of our economy.

    BTW, Had a fun time questioning the Subway girl, then decided I didn’t want the sandwich.

  123. @Robert Snethlage:
    What to do for the next 2 weeks?
    Have you tried trading Low priced stocks on Robinhood?
    Maybe options because they are cheaper?
    I need to make money off more people , so I offer that as a suggestion as I’ll be selling to you.

  124. California has had stringent mask requirements for weeks.

    California just reported it highest daily infection rate.

  125. @Marci “Nailed it”

    @Johan – I’d have to say my Sweden has done a pretty poor job. It sounded good on paper and Lofven and Tegnell are still now defending their strategy. But both from an economic and health perspective, they haven’t come close to their modeling. Norway/Denmark/Finland have succeeded, with very early lockdowns.

    And at least mask wearing doesn’t seem to be a political issue in the EU as it is in the US.

    Hopefully Sweden can produce some studies on the transmission rate among elementary school children (and the infection rate amongst their teachers). Would be useful to see the data for re-opening schools in the US in the autumn.

  126. For those that believe that everything fits into a neat little box, or because they don’t have issues so no one should; I have breathing issues and can’t wear a mask. I wore one when in went into a store that required it and within 10 minutes, it got really hard to breathe, I got light-headed, and a headache. I went outside and took the mask off and was ok in a minute or two. I have had this condition for several years and have flown many times without issue. Before someone says that being so vulnerable I should stay home, how about you just stay the hell away from me if I’m out and about?

  127. After reading through all these comments, I can’t help but wonder as @Edgar did above:

    What will those medically exempt from wearing masks, anti-maskers, Karens, Kevins, etc., do if the cabin loses pressure? Will they not put on a mask even then?

  128. @1kbard:

    So is your contention that wearing masks causes more Covid spread?
    I think you’re saying it doesn’t help.

    Have all the healthcare workers been bamboozled into wearing masks at hospitals when they really aren’t necessary?
    Logic: Correlation does not equal causation.

    I’ll give you a break here. The fact is neither you nor I will ever know more than what we read, see, hear, or experience. Unless you’re an epidemiologist, that is.

  129. I’ll settle this for you all right now.
    First, let me say that I’m a constitutional doctor scientist with a specialty in suing for rights.
    I’ve done hundreds of hours of research on this subject and I can tell that wearing a mask is very dangerous. Carbon monoxide will build up and you will die if you ever had asthma as a child.
    I can provide dozens of YouTube links for evidence if anyone wants to know more.

  130. It’s long been both right and obligation for the airline to verify that a passenger appeared to be healthy enough to fly. It doesn’t take much searching to find the stories of ‘I was denied boarding because the airline was worried I had norovirus when the truth was I was puking because I was hung over from a drunken bender’ that have been going on for like forever.

  131. @Karey Williams
    “Can you site what medical research says that masks are the best way to fight COVID19? I would like to read them.”

    People have already posted links on this page with reporting on the growing evidence that wearing masks helps reduce the spread of this virus.

    The problem is that the people who are anti mask don’t really care about evidence. They don’t care that the CDC, the WHO, pretty much all leading scientists, politicians(of both parties) and epidemiologists are strongly recommending mask usage.

    They just have decided that they are smarter and know better than the experts. And yet all too often they cannot even spell simple words like”cite” correctly.

  132. The way forward for the #NoMask weirdos…

    Insist it’s an emotional support mask and has to sit on the seat next to you, not on your face.

  133. From @K4: “I have high cholesterol and heart issues, and wearing a mask is extremely uncomfortable for me. I feel extremely out of breath. When wearing the masks, which would actually do something, like an N95, I feel suffocated and nauseous. I can manage with fabric masks or a pocket square turned into a face covering, but even then I get feelings of nausea, especially walking through stations and airports.”

    Your symptoms indicate an anxiety over wearing a mask. That is not a physiologic problem, but a psychological one that you can overcome. The solution would come (should you seek a solution) by wearing a mask in a comfortable situation (for instance, at rest in your home) for increasing periods of time to acclimate yourself. First, for just a few minutes, then a little longer until you can comfortably wear it for hours at a time.

    “I wear one because its the rules, but, I doubt a piece of fabric that is allowing air through, is not letting the virus through!”

    This is probably the most common misunderstanding among people who are genuinely trying to understand why masking is considered to be effective (as opposed to the “I-know-my-rights-no-no-can-tell-me-what-to-do” neanderthals who make it into an issue for other reasons. Pssst… I’m telling you that you can’t put your gun to your head and pull the trigger. You aren’t allowed. I forbid it.)

    The standard mask is not intended to block any viruses at all. You are right, the virus particles are too small. The mask is intended to block exhaled/coughed/sneezed droplets that CARRY the virus fom exiting your mouth. It is not to protect you when you are wearing the mask, it is to protect others from your virus-carrying droplets. (Which is also why it isn’t a personal choice for you to wear a mask and “risk my own health”, it’s to keep YOU from spreading virus to others. God knows, you’re probably at HIGHEST risk for carrying the virus thanks to your risk-taking behaviors, so we need protection from YOU).

    The same goes for the coming vaccine. It should be mandatory…. not to protect ME who will take the vaccine and will be immune to your spreading the disease, but to those people who can’t get the vaccine (immunocompromised, too young, etc).

  134. @C Hopkins:
    “ Wow . To all you that condem people with medical or mental health issues be thankful for the blessed life you have lived. I am a honorably discharged combat veteran that was injured and I cannot wear a mask. For all you big mouths out their preaching about masks why don’t you spend some time fighting for those rights that myself and other soldiers have fought for so you can criticize and make us feel like we are making our problems up. As an American I have rights if I want to fly I am entitled to fly if I need to be medically screened then I will,so all you be careful how you treat others because you live in the land of the free and not in some third world country where you opinions would mean death. If anyone needs further medical documentation from me please email me and i will gladly share my injuries and experiences with you so you can further stand on your soap box and criticize people.”

    Where to begin with this hot wind bag of anger and loathing? I haven’t heard/read anyone condemn someone because of a health issue. I WILL, however, call out people who refuse (based on bogus logic or pride) to participate in public health measures. I’m sorry that you were injured, it seems it has greatly affected you. But I’m sure you are capable of wearing a face covering to prevent your rage-spewed droplets from leaving your mouth. But you choose not to. By the way, I did serve in the military as well, for 13 years. It certainly taught me about self sacrifice for the good of others. Taking antiviral precautions are a small sacrifice for a big benefit for society. So suck it up, soldier and do your part. And despite what you feel entitled to, there is no “right” for you to be able to fly; even as a self-described American, the most entitled breed of human out there. Hopefully you won’t fly, but if you do, enjoy your screening. And no crying when you don’t get your way because the screening didn’t fulfill your erroneous assumption that you get to make up your own rules.

  135. @RK

    I think those idiots also like to cite the “experts flip-flop” as a reason for why they don’t listen to the experts. They probably don’t understand the scientific concept of revising your thesis based on new data, and somehow believe being stubborn and close-minded is a virtue.

  136. Oh, I am so disappointed that I wasn’t the first one to be able to dunk on “Ron” the “constitutional attorney” discussing a federal statutory cause of action that doesn’t apply to air carriers’ passengers in any event.

    Tell me more, “Ron.”

  137. @Sean
    “I have breathing issues and can’t wear a mask…Before someone says that being so vulnerable I should stay home, how about you just stay the hell away from me if I’m out and about?”

    Kinda hard to stay away from you on a plane. Nobody has a problem with those who cannot wear a mask for genuine medical reasons. The problem is that many of the people with medical reasons always seem to be anti mask to begin with, and their “medical condition” seems to conveniently suit their political anti mask position.

    Hopefully you are 100% pro mask and understand that the science is now heavily pointing towards mask usage being effective at reducing the spread of this virus, but simply cannot wear one for medical reasons. I hope you won’t prove my point above by saying otherwise.

    As for having to prove your medical condition before flying, as someone with a medical condition that affects your breathing, I am sure you would not dream of flying right now during a pandemic where getting a respiratory virus may prove fatal to you. But if you did have to fly for some reason, I am sure you would completely support Delta’s efforts to ensure as many people as possible are wearing masks so that the risk to you is reduced.

  138. @RK So well put. Anyone with a truly debilitating respiratory condition should be at the forefront of demanding everyone mask up and social distance, because their lives literally depend on it.

    @Sean If you think your obstructive sleep apnea/Pickwickian syndrome gives you “breathing issues” now, wait until your bronchi are covered in mucus and their capillaries full of blood clots from COVID-19.

  139. @Marci Kesserich No, I am just constantly in awe as to the lack there of in the population in general. It seems common sense, logic and actually bothering to think things through instead of blindly taking them from an ever biased and unethical media has pretty much gone by the way side.

  140. I have severe asthma, I am waiting for a lung transplant because I have COPD ( Chronic obstructive pulmonary disease), I have Cystic Fibrosis, and actually I am a bit claustrophobic. I wear a mask everywhere I go. Sure some masks are more difficult to wear, but there are some that are much easier to breath in. I can not imagine what medical condition makes someone unable to wear a mask unless perhaps they have lips that set on fire unexpectedly. I almost fell of my chair laughing at the fellow who claimed he was being shamed for his inability to wear a mask. You are not being asked to wear a duck tape mask.

  141. @Ryan Waldron: So, and I’ll use your own words here… you are “constantly” in awe as to the lack of intelligence in the “population in general.” So you are “constantly” thinking about how unintelligent the “ignorant masses” are, relative to yourself, who you describe as someone “with the mental capacity and the willingness to see the truth in this.”

    As I said, you are overly preoccupied with your ostensibly superior intelligence, and yet any information contrary to what your superior intelligence tells you is biased.

    Do you see your problem here?

  142. @Ross says — how about instead of YouTube links you provide links to peer reviewed studies in reputable medical journals to back your bogus claims?

  143. Lucky, please shut off the comments for this thread. It’s too divisive of a topic between selfish people versus altruist pursuits for a greater good for the society. Just shut it down.

  144. @KK Nothing constructive to add, so your answer is to “Shut off the comments”? If debate bothers you, just don’t read the thread and let others discuss.

  145. @Marci Kesserich Yes, I do see “my” problem here, just please stop confusing it with “your” problem. I have already explained it to you twice. Here it is one last time.

    For the third time, my problem here is people not being bothered to think about anything. Unfortunately, that now means that they are bringing up the first generation who are not even capable of thinking critically, because their parents and teachers have the ability….but they can’t be bothered.

    Stop all this overly dramatic reality TV social media noise that you are bombarded with constantly and want to live in your life by. Actually turn on your brain and take a few pieces of reliable information (IE: not random blogger guy, or some politically biased financially motivated media outlet) and think about it.

    If you take a $0.15 paper mask (Which now costs you $9.00 in some places), put it on, and see how much of the air you breathe actually goes through the improperly made tissue paper between you and the rest of the world. You will immediately find that 90% of the air you breathe comes in a clear open path all the way around your face.

    Now, if you were to be put in a room capable of seating 50 people, all at least 6 feet a part, 90% of them wearing these worthless masks that 90% of the public use over and over again for days. Do you think that if one of those people had the virus, coughed in that room for 10 minutes that everyone else would be miraculously protected by $0.15 worth of paper that is not even filtering their breath?

    Proper masks (Which most people can not get or afford if they could) and social distancing are good tools that only work if EVERYONE practices them 100% of the time. If you think that this is achievable in a society of people who can not be bothered to think any farther than their own very narrow misinformed view that is handed to them verbatim…..I feel you are sorrily mistaken.

    I am not anti-mask/social distancing/. I am anti-laziness, anti-selfishness, pro-caring about people other than yourself, pro-thinking about society as a whole once in a while. Unfortunately, I have also seen a very broad slice of the world in the past 10 years, and I don’t see selfishness declining, or people starting to care more about their neighborhod, county, city, state, region, country, world, species….I see people giving up the skills they need to be able to make informed decisions in a democracy, and in their own personal lives for the sake of a cell phone or a TV full of the most tantalizing, easy to consume, inaccurate, misleading, financially motivated misinformation the human race has ever created in our history.

    COVID-19 is here to stay, people’s laziness will ensure that everyone will have their go. There is no magic pill to fix the larger problems in society that prevent us from stopping a virus like COVID-19 despite being perfectly capable of doing so. I just think that we should address the root of the problem, not tell everyone if they wear one piece of a Halloween surgeon’s costume and stand a bit farther apart that they are safe. Doing so does nothing more than to irritate people a little more in a very tense and unsure time where people should be willing to sacrifice for the greater good, but sadly are not. It also gives people a false sense of security making everyone increase their own, and everyone else’s risk of infection.

    That clear things up for you?

  146. @Ryan Waldron:

    While you claim to be “thinking”, the problem is that you have reached a completely wrong conclusion, likely because you have no idea what you are talking about. Allow me to set you straight…

    “If you take a $0.15 paper mask (Which now costs you $9.00 in some places), put it on, and see how much of the air you breathe actually goes through the improperly made tissue paper between you and the rest of the world. You will immediately find that 90% of the air you breathe comes in a clear open path all the way around your face.”

    The proposed masks for the public aren’t designed to stop the actual virus. At all. That’s not the idea. The idea is to stop the droplets carrying the virus. Using your example, place a mask on your face and hold a mirror several inches away and cough or sneeze. Note that the mirror is clean. Do the same without a mask. You will likely see droplets on the mirror. Even if you don’t see droplets with the naked eye, there are droplet too small to easily identify with the naked eye but are too big to fit through the mask. THAT is the idea to prevent the mask wearer from exposing others around them to their droplets. Yes, even with a 15 cent mask.

    You: “Now, if you were to be put in a room capable of seating 50 people, all at least 6 feet a part, 90% of them wearing these worthless masks that 90% of the public use over and over again for days. Do you think that if one of those people had the virus, coughed in that room for 10 minutes that everyone else would be miraculously protected by $0.15 worth of paper that is not even filtering their breath?”

    Again, the concept is to filter/stop the droplets, not their “breath”. And it would work at stopping those droplets.

    You: “ Proper masks (Which most people can not get or afford if they could) and social distancing are good tools that only work if EVERYONE practices them 100% of the time. If you think that this is achievable in a society of people who can not be bothered to think any farther than their own very narrow misinformed view that is handed to them verbatim…..I feel you are sorrily mistaken.l

    Again, you are plainly wrong. Having 50% of the population wear masks will significantly reduce transmission and is likely making the difference currently. 90% would virtually stop the spread. I know you don’t think so, but people should believe the experts in the field rather than some “I thought about it for a while, so I’m an expert” people like you.

    You: “ I am not anti-mask/social distancing/. I am anti-laziness, anti-selfishness, pro-caring about people other than yourself, pro-thinking about society as a whole once in a while. ”

    This is the most blatantly false statement in your entire error-filled screed. Why in the world would someone who meets this description object to such a miniscule self-sacrifice of wearing a mask if it even had a CHANCE of helping? In order to help society. It would be so much more honest to say that even though it’s helpful to wear a mask, I don’t feel like it. You are not only wrong in your conclusions trying to prop up your rationale for resistance, but you also claim to be altruistic and concerned for others.

    As always, I am not trying to change your mind, you are a lost cause. But I won’t let you spew your misinformation and poor understanding of the problem (or the solution) without being challenged. This way, for those who want logical, informed rationale, they have heard the true theory of stopping spread.

  147. @Stephen in Vegas Go watch some schlieren video of a sneeze or a cough. That tissue paper mask is not stopping much of anything, droplets or bare virus particles alike. For your information I have an MD, an APRN, and an RN in my immediate family, I am pretty well informed on the medical front. In a medical setting if they want to stop droplets from passing they use a solid plastic face shield and a positive pressure room, not 15 cents worth of Chinese tissue paper.

    Go read the most basic information on fluid dynamics, the air will take the path of least resistance carrying any aerosol with it. Your mirror doesn’t fog up because all the moisture in the air you are breathing is redirected away from the mirror by your inadequate mask. Lay your face side on to the mirror and breathe. Oh wow, look at all that condensation from the air that is going right around your play mask, as it does every time you think it is protecting you!.

    Any mask that does not seal tightly to your face and provide proper filtration of the air is pretty much useless, fluids are sneaky like that. The amount of aerosol particles that would be trapped by surface tension are minimal, especially when most people wear those paper masks day after day when they are meant to be worn for a single event and then discarded for a new one.

    As you completely missed my rational, let me explain it again. Wearing the right masks is a good thing, problem is there is NO WAY that you are going to get everyone or even 50% of the people in the world to wear proper masks that would help. Focus on the real problem, don’t create placebo solutions to make you feel all warm in fuzzy inside that do nothing but make the problem worse by giving false hope of protection.

  148. @Ryan Waldron

    Why is that the people who are against masks often complain that people “are not thinking” but then when they start to explain why they know better than everyone else, it turns out they don’t even have a basic understanding of why masks are being recommended.

    Then they say things like they have a doctor and nurse in their family which I guess to them means they must know more than the WHO, the CDC and all leading scientists and epidemiologists i.e. experts who are strongly recommending masks.

    And finally they start using terms like fluid dynamics in an attempt to make themselves look smart when they have ready shown that they clearly don’t even have a basic grasp of science.

  149. @Rk Still not sure why you can’t grasp this….I completely understand why masks are recommended, to help stop the spread of a virus. What I am repeatedly saying and you folks just don’t seem to grasp is that the masks that the minority of the population are wearing are not effective at stopping anything. The other majority of the population are to selfish to bother in the first place. On top of all of that, nobody can snap their fingers and give everyone on the planet a mask that is capable of stopping the spread of the virus. There is no money for anyone in that so it is not going to happen. I’m sorry, but this forum does not allow me to write it out in crayon with the Rs backwards for you to better understand.

    The problem here is people’s selfishness, stupidity, laziness, greed and ignorance. If it weren’t for those things, we would not be in this situation in the first place. So work on stopping the real issues, and stop tanking the economy, irritating people, and giving out false hope when it does the exact opposite of protecting people.

    The sooner that everyone accepts that we CAN NOT stop this virus because that ship has sailed down the river of human ignorance already, the better off we will all be. YOU, I , and everyone else are going to get exposed to this virus weather you wear a mask or not, weather you are dumb enough to think that a sneeze can not spread more than 6 feet or not. The greater problem is that after this virus works it’s way through the population, people are still going to be self centered, greedy, simple minded and unwilling to sacrifice anything for a greater good. Will we survive the next crisis with this mentality at large in society?

  150. @Ryan Waldron
    “weather you are dumb enough”

    Why are the people against masks and against science always talking about how smart they are and how stupid the majority are. Yet almost always their level of intelligence becomes clear when they cannot even spell simple words.

    Maybe you have a PHD in epidemiology or biology and are an expert in your field. Or maybe you have no background in science, have not even been to college and are just talking nonsense. Think about this and “whether” it might just be better that you trust the experts.

  151. @Rk or is it RK? Should we be shallow and pick on the fact that you can’t figure out your own initials like a spoiled little three year old or should we have an informed debate about the topic at hand.

    You keep bashing on science and about how great it is when you agree with it, but about how it is so horrible that I use it to support a counter point of view.

    Science is based on empirical evidence backing up a well formed hypothesis. My hypothesis is that a tissue paper mask does nothing at all to protect you against someone else with a respiratory virus. I have already described a simple experiment that you can do at home with a cheap mask and a mirror. Try it, and then tell me that the mask provides meaningful protection with all of your breath going around the mask.

    For the last time as I am tired of trying to explain clear simple points to you and you just not getting it. The point is not the mask and weather it works. The point is people are too self centered to bother or are to ignorant to realize that the mask they are using just exposes them to more risk every time they wear it for protection. The point is that unless EVERYONE contributes to stopping this, it will never happen. Because of that fact, it will never happen so accept that and work towards what will really help.

    Stop believing everything you are told on your phone or TV verbatim and think for yourself for a change. I know it requires effort on your part and is not as fun to the ignorant as disagreeing for the drama in it…..but it is what society needs if it is to better it’s self as a whole.

  152. Oh @Ryan…
    1) the masks aren’t designed to block 100% of every bit of inhaled/exhaled air or droplets. They are designed to REDUCE the aerosolization. If it works to reduce 50% (I’ll be extremely generous to your argument) of droplets, it still cuts down on droplet aerosolization.
    2) I’m not sure where you buy your masks, but I have never seen a “tissue paper mask”. But boy, that sure sounds much scarier!
    3) Unfortunately, I have only 1 medical professional in my family, an MD. Fortunately, it’s me. By the way, in all 6 of the hospitals that I go to in Las Vegas, we use PAPR’s in the COVID patient’s rooms. Just FYI.

    You: “ My hypothesis is that a tissue paper mask does nothing at all to protect you against someone else with a respiratory virus.”
    Your hypothesis is factually wrong. It REDUCES, not eliminates. But it doesn’t “do nothing”.

    I’m curious, do you wear any mask when you go out or are you part of the problem that you think you identify that people are “too selfish” to do something that makes a difference?

    Lastly, collectively, we can all make a difference by taking precautions, including wearing masks, even if not every human in the country or on the planet contributes… even if Ryan Waldron has jumbled it in his brain differently.

    Thank you to those solving the problem; begrudgingly, we may even protect the Ryan’s of the world.

  153. @Ryan

    “Science is based on empirical evidence backing up a well formed hypothesis. My hypothesis is that a tissue paper mask does nothing at all to protect you against someone else with a respiratory virus.”

    That’s fine. All I ask is that you tell me what level of scientific background or expertise you have that makes you feel confident that your hypothesis stands up against practically ALL the scientific experts on this. If you had cancer and 50 cancer specialists told you you needed a certain type of treatment, and then some random guy with no medical background said “no they’re wrong, I have a hypothesis”, would you really listen to the last guy? That is essentially what you are doing.

    This has nothing to do with TV or phones. I don’t care what the media says on this. This is to do what the scientific experts are telling us, based on real and growing evidence.

    https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/06/417906/still-confused-about-masks-heres-science-behind-how-face-masks-prevent

  154. @Stephen in Vegas

    Look at the cheap Chinese masks being sold to the public for 10 times the normal price in every corner store. They are essentially a few layers of tissue paper.

    They have absolutely no way of sealing to the face to block aerosolized droplets from escaping around the sides of the mask, so they are worthless. This is what the majority of the people that bother to wear a mask use. They also use them over and over again for days on end, dispite the fact that they are single use.

    You proved my point, at a hospital they use a positive pressure full face respirator. Why is it they use those instead of a mask consisting of a few layers of tissue paper? Because they DON’T WORK.

    For your information I stay home most of the time, when I do occasionally go out to get provisions for myself and the family, I wear an N95 respirator.

    @Rk Give up before you hurt yourself there man. Who the hell is talking about cancer here? As I have told you many times now….wake up and think critically for yourself and stop blindly following society off the cliff they are all wandering blindly towards.

    It is also just so amazing how all you supposed doctors and other assorted sheep can’t bother to use your real name on your posts. Why hide? What are you afraid of…..someone going to call you out on your complete BS if they knew who you really are?

  155. @Ryan Waldron:
    “Why hide?”

    Because of unreasonable, unstable whack jobs like you. “Provisions…” Yikes, that speaks volumes. You don’t believe nationally recognized, or even internationally recognized experts in their field because you’ve “thought about it and it doesn’t make sense” to you, so clearly someone like me who is “just” a board certified physician won’t make any difference to you.

    You: “ at a hospital they use a positive pressure full face respirator. Why is it they use those instead of a mask consisting of a few layers of tissue paper?“

    Answer: Because the different masks are intended for two different purposes! Are you really that thick skulled? (“Why do them have all dese tools in toolbox? Ryan only need hammer….”)

    And finally… the “sheep” accusation comes out! You know why the sheep move in a pack, right? So the wolf only gets one of them, thereby minimizing the risk. So baaaaaaaaa!!! We could make use of that idea by LIMITING exposure and risk. Now let me hear you bray/heehaw like the animal you are!

  156. @Ryan
    “Give up before you hurt yourself there man. Who the hell is talking about cancer here? As I have told you many times now….wake up and think critically for yourself and stop blindly following society off the cliff they are all wandering blindly towards.”

    You just dodged my analogy, I assume because you have no comeback. You can look up what an analogy is.

    But you’re right, I am just hurting myself here and wasting my time. You cannot even spell the word “whether”, nor do you understand what an analogy is so there is really no hope for anything fruitful to come out of further discussion.

  157. @Stephen in Vegas All I can say to that is I am glad you are not my doctor, and that I feel sorry for those you do treat if that is the level of maturity you bring to your practice.

    @Rk No, I dismissed your analogy as it is not relevant to my point. I have said time and time again, that wearing a mask is a perfectly good way of preventing the transmission of a respiratory infection IF:

    *You wear a mask that actually filters the air you breathe, which most the general public are wearing don’t.
    *Everyone wears an effective mask (Which most of the world does not have ready access to) whenever they are in contact with others outside their household.

    I have also reiterated that the consequences of continuing to insist to the population that wearing an ineffective mask or standing 6 feet away from someone is safe is that you will create a false sense of security. This will cause people not to stay home, to go out and spread the disease, or increase their exposure to it in the wild.

    I have never once said that the doctors, virologists, etc that have suggested wearing a mask “can increase safety” are wrong. But I think that you will find that they have access to proper PPE and therefor far more effective masks than are available to the general public. They also do not take one cheap disposable mask and wear it for days on end further reducing it’s effectiveness all the while believing it makes them perfectly safe from COVID-19 or any other disease.

    The problem here is the mindset of the people in the world today, and it is a FAR bigger problem than COVID-19 will ever be. When did we have to start telling people over the age of 6 that they should:

    *Cover their mouth when they sneeze, cough, yawn.
    *Wash their hands after the above, going to the bathroom, touching something that is contaminated.
    *To stay home and isolate yourself if you are sick, not just take the subway to work/school because you don’t feel like it and expose 900 other people.

    If people had done the above things that previous generations do on instinct, we wouldn’t be in this mess.

    Why is this so hard for you to grasp?

  158. @Stephen in Vegas: Wow, 50%, that’s like half as effective as it should be! That’s like a crap shoot where everyone is still going to get it in the end!

    Amazingly, they still don’t address the issue of what type of mask they used for the study, I can bet you it wasn’t the worn out old cheap worthless ones that most of the public use. They also fail to address that whatever the government mandate, a lot of people will be ignorant and selfish enough to just ignore it.

    They also clearly state that social distancing is worthless (Which anyone with more than 4 brain cells could figure out with simple logic) and that the whole point was not to stop the spread of the virus, but to slow it to allow medical services to prepare.

    So….that basically confirms every point I have been making since the first post. Masks are at best 50% effective (Worthless really), social distancing is complete crap, and that in the end we will all be exposed anyways. Just as I have been saying all along.

    Thanks Stephen for finally calming down and coming around to see the reality of the situation.

  159. Oh gosh. Too many comments to even read them all.

    I am AA ExPlat but would lean to Delta at this point due to… mask policy. AA and Alaska are getting better. Masks, even poor masks, make a difference. Better masks are better of course. So a HUGE portion of us will choose what airline or if to fly (me and my partner included) based on airlines doing the wise thing and requiring masks (and thus at least verifying any medical excuses).

    So, please, relax and wear a mask (slept in a KN95 overnight HNL to SEA in late June–not so hard).

  160. I love the ignorance, it’s fascinating. People who fancy themselves intellectuals who are knowledgeable on all medical conditions. My 18 year old son has to have a major surgery cross country, so we aren’t going on vacation. I have trigeminal neuralgia so was doing some research when I can across this ‘article’. Maybe one day you all can take a turn experiencing it and let’s see how quick you are to put a mask around your ears and across your face. Oh and update all you mask warriors- CDC said today it’s likely spread by aerosol spray. Guess what does nothing to prevent that? Good luck!

Leave a Reply

If you'd like to participate in the discussion, please adhere to our commenting guidelines. Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *