Delta Loyalty: It’s Just Not Worth It Anymore

Delta Loyalty: It’s Just Not Worth It Anymore

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Recently, Delta Air Lines announced major changes for loyal customers, impacting both the SkyMiles loyalty program and Sky Club access. These changes have really struck a nerve with many frequent flyers, with an amount of passion and anger that I don’t recall seeing from other program changes in the past.

I’ve been putting a lot of thought into these changes, but haven’t exactly been sure what to conclude. Is this a smart way for Delta to increase its revenue from credit cards? Will these changes backfire?

In this post I wanted to share my take as best I can. Separately, I wrote a post questioning whether Delta is as premium of an airline as it claims, which I’d suggest checking out before reading this post, since I’d consider that to be a related topic.

The motivation for Delta’s loyalty changes are clear

Let’s start with Delta’s very obvious motivation here. Delta’s loyalty program and lounge access changes seem entirely focused on getting people to spend more on American Express credit cards.

The “big three” US carriers generate a large percentage of their profits from their loyalty programs, and particularly from their lucrative credit card partnerships. Earlier this year, Delta’s SVP of Loyalty said that Delta expects to earn $6.5 billion from its Amex credit card agreement in 2023, and hopes to grow that by roughly 50%, to $10 billion per year, by 2028.

With these loyalty changes, Delta is letting people fully spend their way to elite status, and the airline is requiring a minimum annual spending amount to receive unlimited Sky Club access.

Delta isn’t the first airline to make elite status achievable exclusively through credit card spending, as we’ve seen American do the same with its Loyalty Points system. While I don’t necessarily love the system for myself, I’ve gone on record as saying that this is brilliant, and makes sense from the carrier’s perspective.

What’s different is how much Delta is asking for here. For example, Delta requires you to spend $350K-700K on a premium co-branded credit card to earn top-tier SkyMiles Diamond status, while American requires you to spend $200K on any co-branded credit card to earn top-tier AAdvantage Executive Platinum status. And I’d argue that there’s way more value to spending on an American credit card, from the value of AAdvantage values, to the perks of oneworld Emerald status.

Delta wants people to spend more on credit cards, and that’s fair enough

I’m not sure if these changes will backfire or not

People have all kinds of different takes as to the impact that these loyalty changes will have on Delta’s bottom line. You have some people who act as if Delta will go into Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection from these changes, and you have some people who think these changes will get Delta right to its $10 billion annual Amex goal.

To me there are two interesting elements to this:

  • How will these changes impact Delta’s co-brand card revenue
  • How will these changes impact the loyalty that SkyMiles members show to the airline

On the surface, I think it’s smart that Delta is creating an unlimited incentive to spend money on its premium co-branded cards. Previously you were capped in terms of the value you’d get toward elite status with co-branded credit card spending, though with the new system, the more you spend, the more Medallion Qualifying Dollars (MQDs) you earn.

I’m sure this will be popular with some wealthy people who spend hundreds of thousands (or millions) per year on credit cards, and they figure they fly Delta often anyway, so they might as well earn status.

However, these changes also have the potential to decrease credit card spending among many:

  • Under the old system, every SkyMiles elite member had an incentive to spend at least $25K on a co-branded credit card, to get a waiver of the annual MQD requirement; that won’t exist in the same way going forward
  • Many people may just not find it worthwhile to go for status anymore, and may give up on spending on co-branded credit cards

I suspect that Delta will see a significant increase in those spending hundreds of thousands per year on credit cards, and a significant decrease in those spending tens of thousands per year.

When it comes to loyalty more broadly, there are a few things that stand out to me most:

  • Delta is kind of throwing your typical management consultant to the curb here; these are people who don’t necessarily spend $75K+ per year on their credit card, but who fly consistently, with reasonably high fares, and have control over the airline they can fly
  • I think Delta’s premium reputation among many is due to a halo effect from every trip essentially coming with lounge access thanks to the Amex Platinum, and that will be changing going forward
  • With these changes, Delta is largely incentivizing people not to be loyal to the airline; for example, I probably fly Delta a handful of times per year, so I’ll get lounge access with my Amex Platinum in the same way as before, but if I were more loyal, I wouldn’t get lounge access consistently, which creates a strange incentive
Delta is almost incentivizing people not to be loyal

Being loyal to Delta is no longer logical

One of the goals of a loyalty program is to make people act irrationally, and choose that business over a competitor even if it’s not always the best option. Airline loyalty programs are incredibly powerful marketing machines that have historically accomplished exactly that.

But I think airlines are getting to the point where they’re at risk of killing the golden goose. They’re trying to maximize passenger revenue while also maximizing loyalty revenue. What this means is that airlines want more from their loyal members while offering them less. Is there a point at which passengers say “no more?”

Specific to Delta SkyMiles, let’s just consider a few factors:

  • Delta has gotten really good at monetizing its premium cabins, and the airline is selling 74% of its premium seats on domestic flights (that number was 14% in 2011); that leaves very few first class and extra legroom seats to upgrade to, and that’s one of the main things that makes people chase status
  • Delta has gutted the SkyMiles program to the point that there are no longer many outsized redemption, and each mile basically gets you a cent toward a Delta purchase
  • Delta is actively punishing its elite members; for example, SkyTeam Elite Plus members get access to SkyTeam lounges when traveling internationally, while Delta explicitly bans its own SkyTeam Elite Plus members from using lounges on these itineraries, unless they’re in premium economy
  • Delta increasing offers elite-like perks just for holding onto a co-branded credit card with no spending requirement, from priority boarding, to a free checked bag, and more, so the question has to be what the incremental value is of going for status over just having a card

I’ve written often about the best cards for everyday spending. There’s a direct opportunity cost to every dollar spent on a Delta credit card, since most purchases earn just one mile per dollar spent, which I value at a return of just over 1%.

Is Delta just relying on people not at all being savvy to keep using Delta credit cards for their spending? Are they hoping that people feel warm and fuzzy about the brand, and that’s enough? Delta has done a great job positioning itself as a loved airline, in an industry where companies historically aren’t loved. How much value can the airline cut from loyal flyers before they get smarter?

Let’s just use some numbers for a second. With the new program:

  • Earning Delta SkyMiles Gold status will require $120K-240K in spending (in addition to a premium card’s annual fee), and for that you’re getting the occasional last minute space available upgrade to extra legroom economy seating, and a first class upgrade every once in a blue moon
  • Earning Delta SkyMiles Diamond status will require $350K-700K in spending (in addition to a premium card’s annual fee), and for that you might get an upgrade some percentage of the time, and… what else, really?

Could someone please do the math for me as to how they’d be better off spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on a card getting a subpar return, rather than just getting a 2% cash back card (or something along those lines) and then spending that cash back to purchase the seat that they wanted in the first place?

Delta claims that these changes are being made because the airline is “committed to preserving the exclusivity and experience you anticipate and deserve.” I’m curious what exactly that exclusivity and experience is? Sharing the Sky Club with people who fly the airline less, rather than more? Not being in the company of as many others when you miss an upgrade?

Is Delta asking too much of SkyMiles members?

Bottom line

Delta is making major changes to its SkyMiles loyalty program and Sky Club access, and this is all intended to increase credit card spending on co-branded cards. I see where Delta is coming from, but I think the airline has gone a step too far in terms of what it’s asking from its customers.

The airline is offering loyal flyers less than ever before, all while asking them to show their loyalty more than ever before. I think in some ways Delta will be happy with the consumer response from these changes, while in other ways it won’t.

I’m very curious to see how this situation evolves. Will Delta stick to its plan? Could we see the thresholds changed, or could we see some significant promotions that make status easier to keep?

What’s your take — what’s the value in being loyal to Delta anymore? What do you think these loyalty changes will do to Delta’s bottom line?

Conversations (180)
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  1. sellmymiles Guest

    Delta’s loyalty program changes seem to shift more towards high-spenders, which may alienate many long-time loyalists. It’ll be interesting to see how this impacts their customer base long term. check - https://www.sellmymiles.com/ in case you want more refrence to this article

  2. Jamie Guest

    I’ve had Diamond status for the past couple of years from spending on my Delta Reserve Business AMEX. I was in Delta’s new MSP Sky Club on the G concourse for the first time on 9/22. While most of their lounges are mediocre at best. This new lounge is a truly upscale airport experience.

    I think one thing people haven’t considered is that Delta has been slowly upgrading the status experience with significant upgrades to...

    I’ve had Diamond status for the past couple of years from spending on my Delta Reserve Business AMEX. I was in Delta’s new MSP Sky Club on the G concourse for the first time on 9/22. While most of their lounges are mediocre at best. This new lounge is a truly upscale airport experience.

    I think one thing people haven’t considered is that Delta has been slowly upgrading the status experience with significant upgrades to their lounges, including celebrity chef curated menus, higher end beverages, far more comfortable seating, and just wait for the new Dreamliners to arrive. The status you earn this year will carry you through 2024, which will give Delta a little over a year to complete even more lounge and seating upgrades. I think Delta is giving you a heads up that these significant upgrades cost a lot of money and you are not going to get access to them for your current spending level.

    Now the part that most of you aren’t going to like to hear… I will reach Diamond status under the new MQD program by using my card for most business expenses. Standing in line for the lounge after spending $350,000+ on my AMEX because Delta lets everyone who has $250 a year for the Platinum AMEX is beyond irksome. Then when you finally get into the lounge there is nowhere to sit, food messes everywhere, all of the electrical outlets are being used, lines for the bathrooms… In other words, it’s not an elite experience. It’s a $250/yr card membership fee experience. Frankly, I’d rather sit in the food court near the gates.

    I am glad that Delta is upgrading the experience and has plans to charge the appropriate amount for it.

    1. No Longer Delta Loyal Guest

      The key issue here if half the people change their behavior and fly/spend less on Delta, the bottom line will be hurt. I've been a Diamond high credit card spender, lower flyer who has been overly loyal to Delta. With these changes, that behavior doesn't make sense. Instead of spending $250,000 on the Delta Reserve Card, I will move it to a card that provides strong return on with transferrable currency. At the end of...

      The key issue here if half the people change their behavior and fly/spend less on Delta, the bottom line will be hurt. I've been a Diamond high credit card spender, lower flyer who has been overly loyal to Delta. With these changes, that behavior doesn't make sense. Instead of spending $250,000 on the Delta Reserve Card, I will move it to a card that provides strong return on with transferrable currency. At the end of the day, Delta will lose a limited number of flights from me (as I'm low value there to start) and $250k of credit card spend, thus making the goal of moving from $6.5 billion to $10 billion of spend that much tougher. As you dig into the changes, it is hard to see who will benefit from these changes, meaning some people won't change behavior, but many people will move to another airline or exit the game, leading to lower revenue for Delta at the end of the day.

  3. Clay W Cone Guest

    We have been loyal Delta frequent fliers for more than 30 years (my wife is a Million Miler). These new rules will make it impossible for us to achieve any kind of meaningful status, thus no ability for upgrades and/or lounge access. Since this is the only reason I use An AMEX card for my business, I will likely cancel the card and search for a more attractive offer (and NOT fly Delta exclusively).

  4. Ben Guest

    Which average person has that much personal credit card spend per year? 120+ sounds insane…

  5. Mike Lee Guest

    Delta says they want the lounges to be less crowded and not too many people having status because when everyone is elite then no one is elite. But why is the lounge crowded in the first place? They raked in tons of revenue by selling credit card benefits to consumers and miles as well. Now that they made money they want to be creative and find a different way to milk the consumers. I think...

    Delta says they want the lounges to be less crowded and not too many people having status because when everyone is elite then no one is elite. But why is the lounge crowded in the first place? They raked in tons of revenue by selling credit card benefits to consumers and miles as well. Now that they made money they want to be creative and find a different way to milk the consumers. I think they were too greedy this time and thought average consumer wouldn't notice or mind. Flying delta 20-30 segments including international a year and spend a lot on reserve card. Live in Atlanta and have only 15,000 MQM to go toward million miler status and you know what? After a week of consideration and comparing, I am giving up delta status (almost platinum for next year and 3-4 more flights to million miler status) for good and change my loyalty to American Air. Adios Delta.

  6. Susan Fabian Guest

    Their lounges aren't even very good. I prefer American's lounges. I am not going to use my card anymore.

  7. r wells Guest

    After 20+ years and 2.5 million miles together, Delta asks me to give up the benefits I have desperately needed for frequent travel. Then, it asks me to get less while calling the change an improvement. Cuz I'm just a stupid passenger who is too dumb to do any math & see that I'm being demoted back to where I was decades ago. Delta, you're putting liptick on a very fat pig. Good luck with...

    After 20+ years and 2.5 million miles together, Delta asks me to give up the benefits I have desperately needed for frequent travel. Then, it asks me to get less while calling the change an improvement. Cuz I'm just a stupid passenger who is too dumb to do any math & see that I'm being demoted back to where I was decades ago. Delta, you're putting liptick on a very fat pig. Good luck with that because any elite with any sense is shopping their status to another airline. You've clearly shown that I am a piece of dirt to you and our decades together meant nothing. Delta is just a big, fat, greedy pig.

  8. CarterML New Member

    Delta has sent a clear message that my level of business (Platinum Medallion) doesn't warrant the type of incentives to keep me there. I'm based in Atlanta, GA--a main hub--so the Delta co-branded AmEx cards (and my loyalty) made sense, but no longer. I'll be making a switch to non-Delta cobranded cards and broadening my airline choices by year's end.

  9. grmayes New Member

    Loyalty means nothing anymore, to Delta, Marriott, Hilton, etc. Name the corporation.
    So, I am Platinum through 2024 and will be planning my escape from Delta jail during that time. I will no longer renew my Delta AMEX Reserve Card when it is due and spend that money elsewhere on a better travel card. I have choices of airlines when I travel and frankly, I appreciate Delta "cutting me loose" to choose without "loyalty...

    Loyalty means nothing anymore, to Delta, Marriott, Hilton, etc. Name the corporation.
    So, I am Platinum through 2024 and will be planning my escape from Delta jail during that time. I will no longer renew my Delta AMEX Reserve Card when it is due and spend that money elsewhere on a better travel card. I have choices of airlines when I travel and frankly, I appreciate Delta "cutting me loose" to choose without "loyalty guilt". I feel bad for the Delta Sky Club employees who will certainly see a major decrease in their "tip" money. Yes, the clubs were crowded, but the club employees were making a killing. Even though I have unlimited access at the moment, I rarely go to the clubs anymore. I don't mind the crowding so much as I do the "daycare" atmosphere in most of the clubs. Too many out-of-control kids, the feeding frenzy of already overfed adults, and too many barking dogs.

  10. Ivan X Gold

    Nothing is worth it anymore. Let's give up.

  11. No Guest

    This all misses the point. Airlines want to make as much revenue as possible, and not incentivize people to get top status (which costs delta money) by getting as many miles as possible for as little money as possible. Delta doesn’t care about mileage runners loyalty.

    This change makes it way easier for deltas most profitable customers to get status faster. This is folks who buy the most expensive tickets…. Rich folks flying first/biz class...

    This all misses the point. Airlines want to make as much revenue as possible, and not incentivize people to get top status (which costs delta money) by getting as many miles as possible for as little money as possible. Delta doesn’t care about mileage runners loyalty.

    This change makes it way easier for deltas most profitable customers to get status faster. This is folks who buy the most expensive tickets…. Rich folks flying first/biz class and business folks buying tickets on popular routes at peak times.

  12. Greg Guest

    I’m a Diamond and all the changes are enough for me to say ‘It’s been a decent relationship but time for a divorce’. The spending requirements don’t make sense if I’m understanding them correctly. I think Delta must think they’re so premium that people fly them over private. Good luck and hope it works because it would take an incredible amount of groveling for me to extend my loyalty back to Delta.

    1. Tom Guest

      In same situation and I agree with you. Delta is slightly better than the other 2 major US carriers for domestic flights but they are definitely not a premium airline. You can get much better experience at a lower price if you are willing to do a one stop connection using international airlines for overseas travel.

  13. T. Magee Guest

    A couple of commenters have referenced status being out of reach for the “middle class.” And one could interpret this as the broader hollowing out of this demographic on American society, while the 1% get richer.

    Before you jump on me and say “only high spenders matter to Delta…” remember the other key strategic objectives they are trying to achieve. .
    1) they want to adjust to the “new reality” of less corporate travel....

    A couple of commenters have referenced status being out of reach for the “middle class.” And one could interpret this as the broader hollowing out of this demographic on American society, while the 1% get richer.

    Before you jump on me and say “only high spenders matter to Delta…” remember the other key strategic objectives they are trying to achieve. .
    1) they want to adjust to the “new reality” of less corporate travel. Meaning more individual leisure travel and SMB. They are competing with the Big Front Seat for this crowd. Why would the occasional traveler get on the hamster wheel with no chance of getting meaningful status?
    2) they want more spending on Amex cards. Yet the cards have no benefits and the currency is worthless. Anyone who does a basic google search will read many articles saying this.
    3) while there are certainly high rollers and they will always get tue highest level of service, the bulk of their revenue is still going to come from the “long tail.” What incentive do these people have to stay in the Delta ecosystem.

    You can go on about Delta’s previous performance and yes, they have been very successful. That does not mean they are incapable of making a strategic mistake. They may well have enough market power to make these changes with no impact to the airline side of the business. But they don’t have market power in the credit card business. And that’s what makes them profitable. That is their strategic error, in my opinion.

  14. Brianair Guest

    My take is that Ben >>> Tim.

  15. Chris Proctor Guest

    I wrote Delta with no response. Not that it was needed. I will still preferentially fly Delta as long as costs are similar. But I will now check all other options as well. In other words, they lost me loyalty.

  16. Jessica Lawson Guest

    I understand them trying to make access to the lounge more exclusive. They want to create a country club atmosphere. I would be mad too if I paid a lot of money and they were overcrowded and ran out of items like red wine. However the skymiles status system i always considered a loyalty program. Under the new system someone who flys 2 flights a year to Europe in Deltaone will have more status than...

    I understand them trying to make access to the lounge more exclusive. They want to create a country club atmosphere. I would be mad too if I paid a lot of money and they were overcrowded and ran out of items like red wine. However the skymiles status system i always considered a loyalty program. Under the new system someone who flys 2 flights a year to Europe in Deltaone will have more status than someone like me who takes 2 trips a month for work. While they probably won’t loose many travelers in their big hubs someone like myself who doesn’t live in a hub will probably look at other options. Why should I continue to fly Delta when 75% of my flights have to be connections. Why continue to fly delta when American I can get to 10 destinations direct and I will be able to earn status with a them. Also it I loose status the companies I work for will probably cease to pay Deltas slightly higher fares since the lack of baggage fees will no longer offset that cost. I remained loyal to Delta for 7 years since moving away from a hub, but they are now giving me a reason not too. They don’t seem to know what loyalty is, it’s choosing the brand even when it’s not the most convenient or cheapest option because you know they value your business. Delta is saying that they don’t value my business because I don’t have $100k+ to spend on credit cards and flights.

  17. Drpff Guest

    I certainly won’t be loyal any more. When I worked as an educator I took a trip overseas every summer, the only time I had for a trip. I always chose Delta. In retirement I travel anytime I want , but funds are limited. I still have chosen Delta. I don’t see the point anymore. Rewards are really not very good. They don’t seem to appreciate flyers like me. I’ve even helped them by switching...

    I certainly won’t be loyal any more. When I worked as an educator I took a trip overseas every summer, the only time I had for a trip. I always chose Delta. In retirement I travel anytime I want , but funds are limited. I still have chosen Delta. I don’t see the point anymore. Rewards are really not very good. They don’t seem to appreciate flyers like me. I’ve even helped them by switching seats so families could sit together. Never have I been offered extra miles as a thank you. It seems to me that Delta is out for the passenger with unlimited funds. Next year I will look at other options.

  18. Lee Guest

    Consider all of the (stuff) that Marriott has pulled with respect to Bonvoy. Everyone complained. Everyone was leaving. But, today, Marriott is going strong. Unless revenue and earnings are adversely affected, they (Marriott, Delta, all of them) are going to keep chipping away. And, all the complaints will be for naught.

    1. Eskimo Guest

      You are right, but under the wrong assumptions.

      Marriott's customer are the hotel owners not the guests.
      Delta's customer are now corporate contracts not the flyers.

      Will the guests complaints be for naught, possibly. Especially from the company's perspective.
      Did I spend fewer nights at Marriott and much more with Hilton, IHG or Hyatt. That's already few hundred nights of yes and counting.

      I'm not trying to start a crusade against Delta (or...

      You are right, but under the wrong assumptions.

      Marriott's customer are the hotel owners not the guests.
      Delta's customer are now corporate contracts not the flyers.

      Will the guests complaints be for naught, possibly. Especially from the company's perspective.
      Did I spend fewer nights at Marriott and much more with Hilton, IHG or Hyatt. That's already few hundred nights of yes and counting.

      I'm not trying to start a crusade against Delta (or for Delta like Timmy here). I'm just merely looking after myself.

    2. Andrew Diamond

      I agree. That's why I don't fly Delta, and why I don't stay in Marriott properties. The only way to really vote is with your wallet.

      It is worth noting: most people do not think about it as much as readers of this blog. I knew a guy (former inlaw) who spent 6 months living in a Marriott property and didn't once think about whether that was the right value choice for him. Most people exist on auto-pilot...

  19. Ann Guest

    I’m a delta platinum and make it every year. Under the new rules I will be lucky to get silver. So no longer will I book delta if another carrier offers a better fare.

  20. JC Guest

    Odd framing. Guy not loyal to Delta writes article about not being loyal to Delta. Also acting like you only get MQDs for CC spending is way off. You don’t have to spend 120k on a Reserve card to make Gold, LOL.

  21. PCT Member

    A retired friend, who splits her time between Atlanta and (Knoxville) left for Europe yesterday in business class (paid). This is her third trip this year, and despite being a loyal Delta flyer has made all three trips on United/star alliance. The difference in fare between Delta and United simply was too much for her to pay, regardless of whether she could afford it or not. She now enjoys connecting through IAD and spending time...

    A retired friend, who splits her time between Atlanta and (Knoxville) left for Europe yesterday in business class (paid). This is her third trip this year, and despite being a loyal Delta flyer has made all three trips on United/star alliance. The difference in fare between Delta and United simply was too much for her to pay, regardless of whether she could afford it or not. She now enjoys connecting through IAD and spending time having a preflight meal in and uncrowded Polaris lounge. No doubt just one of many travelers “changing” their behavior as a result of DL’s antics! Only time will tell……

    1. Tim Dunn Diamond

      you just explained beautifully why Delta does not need to incentive people with high loyalty awards - because people pay more for its services than they do on other airlines.

      If you read financial statements, you would know that Delta gets higher revenue per seat mile across the Atlantic (and elsewhere) than United does.

    2. PCT Member

      You can spin this anyway you like. I have ZERO interest in debating you! Perhaps my initial post was not clear enough as I dictated it in less than a minute before heading out on a 2 hour hike. She pays $$$ for her tickets and now feels DL no longer is worth any sort of premium. She chooses to spend her money on UA and apparently is much happier with the service they provide...

      You can spin this anyway you like. I have ZERO interest in debating you! Perhaps my initial post was not clear enough as I dictated it in less than a minute before heading out on a 2 hour hike. She pays $$$ for her tickets and now feels DL no longer is worth any sort of premium. She chooses to spend her money on UA and apparently is much happier with the service they provide for much less! Pretty sure she could care less how much more profitable DL is. Also pretty sure she could care less what DL thinks of her and the lost business……

    3. Ivan X Gold

      So, does anyone like you? Because you just like to tell people why their feelings are wrong.

  22. Pierre Diamond

    A Status Mach offer by AA and United targeted to present Delta elites is an opportunity that these airlines will probably miss.

    1. Tom Guest

      Alaska saw the opportunity and they started offering status match

  23. Rick Guest

    I’m a business exec who spends a couple hundred thousand a year on a pair of Delta Reserve cards, flies 20 to 30 segments a year, and purchases F the vast majority of those flights. As a result I’ve been Platinum or Diamond the past six years.

    I too have been thinking through this since announced, and have arrived at the same conclusion as Ben. What’s the point?

    To me, the value of CC spend...

    I’m a business exec who spends a couple hundred thousand a year on a pair of Delta Reserve cards, flies 20 to 30 segments a year, and purchases F the vast majority of those flights. As a result I’ve been Platinum or Diamond the past six years.

    I too have been thinking through this since announced, and have arrived at the same conclusion as Ben. What’s the point?

    To me, the value of CC spend was the customer service during IROPS, premium Econ seats when I didn’t want to buy F, access to Skyclubs for my family and I, and the Choice Benefits. I also had a goal of reaching the Million Miler. I was always giving up value on Skymiles vs other CC, but now the value difference between AA CC spend and DL CC spend is just too much. Combine that with expanding reduced Skyclub access and an inability to hit Million Miler, and I’m done with Skymiles.

    I’ll still pay for Delta flights when competitive on price, but my irrational loyalty is gone, as is my CC spend.

    Considering the amount I spend on Delta CC per year is only a fraction of my overall CC spend, it seems to me that Delta really missed the mark, as I’m exactly the type of customer they appear to be targeting.

  24. Glen Guest

    Wish Delta/Amex added at least a 2x bonus on dining/hotels etc to incentivize spending on the Reserve card, as it currently is the WORST card to put spend on, even for Delta purchases. Even with 2x bonus categories it would still an inferior earn rate to other cards, but it might at least be enough to keep me from cancelling or downgrading.

  25. Tim Dunn Diamond

    The comments here are decidedly different than they were just a week ago in previous articles. There are more and more people that are beginning to realize what is actually happening and that the whole thing isn't about them.

    Many people forget that Delta was the airline that brought an end to travel agent commissions as they existed at the time. Delta was much smaller, got far less of its revenue from the internet than...

    The comments here are decidedly different than they were just a week ago in previous articles. There are more and more people that are beginning to realize what is actually happening and that the whole thing isn't about them.

    Many people forget that Delta was the airline that brought an end to travel agent commissions as they existed at the time. Delta was much smaller, got far less of its revenue from the internet than it does now but made an earth-shattering announcement to end travel agent commissions. Anyone that followed the travel industry then knows the backklash was huge. People predicted Delta's demise.
    In reality, Delta has grown to become the largest airline by revenue in the world - even if burns a whole lot less jet fuel than competitors to generate that revenue - and has the most valuable loyalty airline program in the world and perhaps of all types of loyalty programs.

    Delta did not invent the airline loyalty program but it has most certainly perfected it from a revenue standpoint to the airline.

    When industries consolidate to a certain point, there is no need to continue to incentivize behavior as loyalty programs do. The grocery industry in the US is controlled by about 4 large players; there is very little in generosity in any consumer products and essentially staples. Utilities which are generally monopolies have no reason to offer loyalty programs - or if they exist, they are there largely for cosmetic purposes.

    Delta has managed to build a network and develop its product to the point that people choose Delta for its network and product. Generous loyalty programs simply are not necessary any more as incentives to get people to fly Delta.

    People who fly Delta and spend lots of money on Amex or Delta will still receive elite benefits but those that used the Amex ecosystem to get them to elite levels are the ones that will be left out.

    But in a consolidated industry, they will try to run elsewhere to get the benefits they no longer have from Delta only to find other airlines esp. American and United, will put up the ladder on generous elite benefits.

    This day was coming. The fact that Delta weathered covid, is stronger relative to the industry now than it has ever been, while competitors are looking for ways to cut costs - including to pay for the costly labor deals which Delta rolled out and the industry matched - makes the time ripe for a wholesale rework of airline loyalty programs.

    And Delta led the charge.

    1. Eskimo Guest

      I wish I knew what Tim was smoking.

      The comments are the same as last week. This is OMAAT riding the wave (more traffic, more $$$) and keep posting what the readers wants to hear. The public execution of Delta.

      And please, the fact that Delta weathered Covid is partly because $5.4 billion from our taxes.

      Now go enjoy your $78 burger.

    2. digital_notmad Diamond

      lol the one (1) guy in this thread who agreed with tim has subsequently walked it back

    3. Tim Dunn Diamond

      you do realize that AA received more money than DL because it was related to the number of employees each airline had?

    4. John Guest

      Delta is addressing a problem it needs to fix: elite status is too easy to earn in its program and it sold far too much SkyClub access to Amex. This has resulted in the inability to consistently deliver the marketed benefits of elite status and in swamped SkyClubs, and those are very negative for the brand. AA and UA have the same problem and they will soon follow Delta’s lead and make similar program changes....

      Delta is addressing a problem it needs to fix: elite status is too easy to earn in its program and it sold far too much SkyClub access to Amex. This has resulted in the inability to consistently deliver the marketed benefits of elite status and in swamped SkyClubs, and those are very negative for the brand. AA and UA have the same problem and they will soon follow Delta’s lead and make similar program changes. They always do. So I agree with you that Delta has a good chance of weathering the blow back of these changes, simply because everyone else will soon do the same thing.

      I would respectfully disagree with your position that loyalty programs are less relevant in a consolidated industry. While they were originally designed to drive purchasing decisions, they influence customer behavior in a lot of ways. The US domestic flyer tolerates a subpar product that has gotten very expensive. While I think many of us would agree with you that Delta offers the best domestic product, many of us would also push back that the veneer is thin and the differences aren’t that great. The changes to elite status and lounge access are going to make that veneer even thinner for a big chunk of the customer base.

      As they surrender what has been an effective and important tool in broadly managing customer behavior, the big 3 will have to decide if they’re going to make the product better, make the product cheaper, or do nothing and get regulated into doing both.

    5. Ivan X Gold

      @John, the lounge problem is unique to Delta, because of Amex Platinum access. That's a popular card. Lounge access cards and memberships are not nearly as popular on AA and UA, and I never have to wait in line to get into a UA Club at EWR, LAX, or anywhere else.

      UA was first among the legacy US carriers, regrettably, to make status earning based on airline (and, to a lesser extent, credit card) spend....

      @John, the lounge problem is unique to Delta, because of Amex Platinum access. That's a popular card. Lounge access cards and memberships are not nearly as popular on AA and UA, and I never have to wait in line to get into a UA Club at EWR, LAX, or anywhere else.

      UA was first among the legacy US carriers, regrettably, to make status earning based on airline (and, to a lesser extent, credit card) spend. So, who is following whom again?

      You are probably correct, though, that in a market where there is little competition, the competitors tend to have the same offerings, making it likely that Delta will weather the storm.

    6. cairns Guest

      Give it up Tim. And go collect your check from Delta.

  26. Julia Guest

    Just curious, for those of you in the US, if not Delta, what airline would you recommend for Sky Team status if living in the US?

    1. Ralph4878 Guest

      There isn't one. Delta used to be partners with Alaska, but that went out the window when it became clear that Alaska was going to join an alliance and it wasn't going to be SkyTeam. As much as I love SkyTeam members (like DL, AF, KL, KE, and VN), it is getting much harder to be loyal to SkyTeam now that I am based in the USA...between the pricing of F or J to now these changes at Delta, I am thinking it's time to cozy up to United...

    2. Jim Lovejoy Guest

      That would depend on how many international trips you take and where.
      If you only travel domestically there is no competition. If you fly internationally either Virgin Atlantic or Flying Blue (Air France/KLM) might work. If you fly south to Mexico or Central or South America Aeromexico might work.
      If your international trips are to Asia it looks like elite status is difficult to earn.

      One thing to keep in mind is that...

      That would depend on how many international trips you take and where.
      If you only travel domestically there is no competition. If you fly internationally either Virgin Atlantic or Flying Blue (Air France/KLM) might work. If you fly south to Mexico or Central or South America Aeromexico might work.
      If your international trips are to Asia it looks like elite status is difficult to earn.

      One thing to keep in mind is that the best Sky Team status you'll earn is elite plus which is only equivalent to Delta Gold.

      If you're not captive in a Delta hub you might be better off earning status in another alliance.

  27. MPorter Guest

    This is just more of the same. Delta has been looking to maximize revenue at the expense of its loyal flyers. Think about the last 12-15 years: 1. Much lower redemption value of your miles. 2. Much harder upgrades 3. prioritize upgrade based on cost of a leg vs the overall ticket. Think about spending $1,000 domestically for a trip from a non-hub, getting an upgrade to First Class for the 325 mile leg then...

    This is just more of the same. Delta has been looking to maximize revenue at the expense of its loyal flyers. Think about the last 12-15 years: 1. Much lower redemption value of your miles. 2. Much harder upgrades 3. prioritize upgrade based on cost of a leg vs the overall ticket. Think about spending $1,000 domestically for a trip from a non-hub, getting an upgrade to First Class for the 325 mile leg then getting no upgrade to Comfort Plus or First while sitting in a middle seat for the 2,000 mile flight.

    Airlines do no value their customers and provide little actual incentive to be loyal. I finally realized the game and fly the shortest route from my new city.

  28. cz Guest

    I think you are right about the idea that people should still fly Delta (when they see a fit) but stop being loyal. And I'd argue that this is exactly Delta's purpose -- if you cannot win your competitors over the loyalty program (we all agree that Delta is the underdog on this respect), then kill it, and better, kill it for all.

    If everyone buys your point, Ben, (which I do), then I...

    I think you are right about the idea that people should still fly Delta (when they see a fit) but stop being loyal. And I'd argue that this is exactly Delta's purpose -- if you cannot win your competitors over the loyalty program (we all agree that Delta is the underdog on this respect), then kill it, and better, kill it for all.

    If everyone buys your point, Ben, (which I do), then I can see that nearly 100% of the premium cabin seats will be purchased in cash. If so, why would Delta or anyone care about customers' "loyalty"? Airlines ain't making money through coach seats anyways.

  29. Frog Guest

    Interesting to see how loyalty programs of European airlines now deliver more value now than those of US airlines. Not that the European loyalty programs are anything to get excited about but at least they still incentivise loyalty.

    With AF-KLM on a points-based status scheme and the Lufthansa group going that way from next year it can actually still make sense to do milage (or status points) runs in Europe.

  30. Markj Guest

    Having an Amex Black Card which has a $5000 annual fee but comes with Delta Platinum Status (at least for now) seems like a bargain compared to having to earn 18,000 MQD's to maintain status.

    I think everything hinges on what happens to Delta Amex spend. If it goes down then I think you will see Delta incentivize card spend towards status just like American Airlines.

    I actually think the bigger issue is restricting Sky...

    Having an Amex Black Card which has a $5000 annual fee but comes with Delta Platinum Status (at least for now) seems like a bargain compared to having to earn 18,000 MQD's to maintain status.

    I think everything hinges on what happens to Delta Amex spend. If it goes down then I think you will see Delta incentivize card spend towards status just like American Airlines.

    I actually think the bigger issue is restricting Sky Club access. I think most flyers would view a Delta lounge experience and a Comfort Plus seat as a fine travel experience domestically. If anything I could see Delta backtracking on the club access restrictions or offer elites holding an Amex card a cheap Sky Club membership.

  31. LK Guest

    I don't get it, people spending hundreds of thousands on their credit card could probably afford to just pay for F or J. Or put that spend on the Amex Biz Plat and get 5x on flights or use Amex points for flights. Etc.

  32. Andrea Cannon Guest

    For context : I’ve been Diamond medallion since 2016. Travel has decreased for me since Covid but still 100+ segments a year. (Used to be 200+)

    Loyalty programs are incredible for companies when they can motivate people to change behaviors. Like increasing the MQD from $15k (last year) to $20k (this year) for Diamond. I knew that if I made sure I didn’t fly any other airline I would hit $20k so that’s what I...

    For context : I’ve been Diamond medallion since 2016. Travel has decreased for me since Covid but still 100+ segments a year. (Used to be 200+)

    Loyalty programs are incredible for companies when they can motivate people to change behaviors. Like increasing the MQD from $15k (last year) to $20k (this year) for Diamond. I knew that if I made sure I didn’t fly any other airline I would hit $20k so that’s what I did. And I’m actually on track for probably $22k or so.

    I also spent $25-35k every year on my various delta Amex cards to make sure I got the earlier boost to platinum.

    However this change is disincentivizing me because I know it’s not possible to hit Diamond (that $30k Spend would only get me $3000 MQDs if done on my reserve) so my husband and I plan to both drop our delta platinum cards. And I plan to just fly what makes sense, which quite frequently will still be Delta as I’m based out of SLC. BUT I’m not going out of my way to do it with canceling our delta platinum cards that’s two less annual fees and ~$70k less spend on co-branded cards from us.

    Marriott did something similar (albeit still way less). They changed Ambassador dollar spend to $23k from $20k. $20k was a stretch but I’ve made it before and I would have tried again if it was $20k. But now since I can’t hit that I’m trying out Hyatt and just settling with my lifetime status at Marriott.

    1. Mantis Guest

      You're exactly right. Delta erred in moving away from incentivizing decisions/behavior (the inputs to revenue) and just went straight to incentivizing outcomes (revenue). The problem is that many high revenue customers are going to spend on Delta no matter what, maybe they are hub captive, maybe they don't make their travel decisions, etc., so you're not influencing decisions by rewarding them, they were going to spend anyway. Loyalty programs were effective because they influenced decisions...

      You're exactly right. Delta erred in moving away from incentivizing decisions/behavior (the inputs to revenue) and just went straight to incentivizing outcomes (revenue). The problem is that many high revenue customers are going to spend on Delta no matter what, maybe they are hub captive, maybe they don't make their travel decisions, etc., so you're not influencing decisions by rewarding them, they were going to spend anyway. Loyalty programs were effective because they influenced decisions for almost every type of customer, not just the high spenders.

  33. Felipe Guest

    Yep, I thought it over, and cancelled my platinum Delta card this week. No way I can reasonably reach status anymore, and more importantly, the status isn’t really worth nearly as much anymore. Sad, but seems to be the way they are looking long term, and loyalty doesn’t seem to be appreciated, makes it easier than ever to just ignore the carrier and seek out the price and preferred cabin.

  34. Paul Gold

    I agree, the changes take Delta out of the picture for me.

  35. William Guest

    Clearly an example of tactics above strategy. Earning status through credit cards has nothing to do with loyalty.
    In the rest of the world status is simply earned almost completely through 'ass in seat' only.
    It would make sense to get back to the basics and stick to it.
    I'm top tier on Skyteam and *A. The main benefit for me, and reason to maintain status is just to have that little...

    Clearly an example of tactics above strategy. Earning status through credit cards has nothing to do with loyalty.
    In the rest of the world status is simply earned almost completely through 'ass in seat' only.
    It would make sense to get back to the basics and stick to it.
    I'm top tier on Skyteam and *A. The main benefit for me, and reason to maintain status is just to have that little priority when things go wrong and assistance of customer service is needed.
    I learned from the mistake of not having priority while stuck in VIE on a missed connection due to the airlines fault and found myself in line with 800 others, while Gold members had a separate counter to get assisted.

    1. Flying@MSP New Member

      I think we need to stop using the words "loyalty" and "Delta" in the same sentence. Maybe we are better off referring to SkyMiles as a "revenue generation rebate" program. You give them money through certain spend channels, and when you reach certain thresholds you get a rebate in the form of redeemable "points" which is an alternative currency for SkyTeam, the possibility of upgrades, and SC membership. This will be a pure transactional relationship...

      I think we need to stop using the words "loyalty" and "Delta" in the same sentence. Maybe we are better off referring to SkyMiles as a "revenue generation rebate" program. You give them money through certain spend channels, and when you reach certain thresholds you get a rebate in the form of redeemable "points" which is an alternative currency for SkyTeam, the possibility of upgrades, and SC membership. This will be a pure transactional relationship and loyalty will be completely irrelevant.

  36. James Guest

    I will be status matching on to Alaska next year. I live in Hawaii and my domestic travel is all west coast. With Alaska I get access to lower first class fares, more leg room, more comfortable seats, free lounge access for Hawaii flights in first class, pre select meals ( Delta doesn’t from LIH) meals on china and not a box for dinner and finally internet that works trans-pacific. I stopped flying Delta internationally...

    I will be status matching on to Alaska next year. I live in Hawaii and my domestic travel is all west coast. With Alaska I get access to lower first class fares, more leg room, more comfortable seats, free lounge access for Hawaii flights in first class, pre select meals ( Delta doesn’t from LIH) meals on china and not a box for dinner and finally internet that works trans-pacific. I stopped flying Delta internationally in 2014 and domestically in October. I only purchase first class tickets. Delta’s the premium airline?

  37. Joseph Guest

    AI will be the thing that makes loyalty logical again. You will be able to ask what the loyalty would be for your situation and then there will be a custom plan for you. Want to be Diamond with an Atlanta home base? 2 Billion Sky whatevers. Want to be Executive Platinum with an Atlanta home base? 75,000 loyalty points.

  38. Bob Wade Guest

    I have an American Express Delta platinum card. I am a platinum Delta status member, and 1 million miler. I have been loyal with Delta since the early 90s. It appears that Delta no longer desires my loyalty. I will be dropping my American Express Delta card and switching airlines. This is very disappointing.

  39. Gary Bates Guest

    Goodbye Delta at last. Loyalty is a one-way street with them, and has been for several years now. I'll be ditching my overpriced Reserve card at the end of the year. Worst miles redemption in the industry also. Delta sucks!

  40. Brian Guest

    Like AA, you will get skymile bonus credit for rental cars and hotels booked through their website. Its all about monetization. The truth is airlines dont make money flying and selling seats.

  41. Darin Guest

    So... who won?

    My MSP based SVP flies paid business and should clear the new MQD for Diamond no problem. I don’t think this alters her travel plans much either way. She will not give DL more or less of her flying than she does already.

    My middle-class family of four friends in PDX who held gold/plat and spent $25k+ a year on their mid-tier DL credit card (blindly) have decided to stop using their...

    So... who won?

    My MSP based SVP flies paid business and should clear the new MQD for Diamond no problem. I don’t think this alters her travel plans much either way. She will not give DL more or less of her flying than she does already.

    My middle-class family of four friends in PDX who held gold/plat and spent $25k+ a year on their mid-tier DL credit card (blindly) have decided to stop using their DL credit cards entirely (as of now), transition to transferable currency cards, and will choose best airline per itinerary with a lingering memory of DL leaving a bad taste in their mouths.

    I had already decided to stop flying DL pre announcement unless there is a considerable route advantage (LAX-ATL) because I can get better perks on UA as a MM, and don’t have to pay an up charge for E+ like I did as a Gold on DL. As an Amex Plat card holder, I am still trying to figure out the path forward but I have until 2025, so no change.

    So who are the winners?

    1. Eskimo Guest

      Tim Dunn wins.
      This week is like a wet dream for him.

      And the award goes to.....
      Everything Everywhere Delta All at Once.

  42. Ghostrider5408 Guest

    WOW "digital-Nomad must be a lurker, anyone that a real road warrior will tell you DL FF Program has been a demising return for many years, I have been a member since the early 70's fast forward today it's all about credit card spend. When the airlines hypothecated their programs the CC companies knew they had them. I have always felt that if you totally eliminated FF programs and passed that cost on to the...

    WOW "digital-Nomad must be a lurker, anyone that a real road warrior will tell you DL FF Program has been a demising return for many years, I have been a member since the early 70's fast forward today it's all about credit card spend. When the airlines hypothecated their programs the CC companies knew they had them. I have always felt that if you totally eliminated FF programs and passed that cost on to the customer how much less it would cost to fly. I started flying then there was no real program, eastern by invitation only provided a free up grade program those days we traveled with a book of blank tickets walked up to the desk and wrote them out. Back to point Delta is not that all mighty never fail carrier.

    1. TravelinWilly Diamond

      “I have been a member since the early 70's…”

      No, you haven’t.

  43. Lee Guest

    Everyone is categorizing Delta's changes as negative. Fine. But, all that will matter to Delta is what it reports on its 10-Qs and 10-Ks over the next year or so. So, unless and until revenues and earnings are adversely affected, don't expect Delta's management to have some epiphany.

  44. Steve Hunter Guest

    My main objection with your analysis is that it is Sims they are not buying any actual tickets on your card. The tickets count dollar for dollar.

  45. Brad in St. Pete Guest

    Ah the handringing and gnashing of Medallion teeth. I have not been a frequent traveler in some time. I do very much remember the days when airlines competed on service. Imagine ! I had Gold status with Continental OnePass and some sort of Medallion (briefly) with Delta. I dearly miss Continental and I go out of my way to fly Delta. Why ? I will never have status...but I appreciate a consistently good product and...

    Ah the handringing and gnashing of Medallion teeth. I have not been a frequent traveler in some time. I do very much remember the days when airlines competed on service. Imagine ! I had Gold status with Continental OnePass and some sort of Medallion (briefly) with Delta. I dearly miss Continental and I go out of my way to fly Delta. Why ? I will never have status...but I appreciate a consistently good product and Delta has never let me down. I actually pay CASH for First and PE. Its liberating to know that I will never be Medallion again.

  46. LLoyd Guest

    Agree with a few of the comments made. It is not so much what happened, rather it is how it happened.!!
    Have made the decision to use all of my miles remaining on Delta and then move on. I like and need an airline that I can work with and has, at least some of my interests at heart

  47. Leo Dubino Guest

    You're leaving out how they torpedoed lounge access. 10 times a year for delta reserve, 6 for amex platinum. This is also a huge factor for a lot of people, including me (I have an Amex Plat, live in NYC). Notwithstanding the ludicrous threshold changes for "elite" status, I'm outraged at the severe restricted access to lounges

    My personal prediction is that spend on delta credit cards will lessen by 20%-30%. Only a moron would...

    You're leaving out how they torpedoed lounge access. 10 times a year for delta reserve, 6 for amex platinum. This is also a huge factor for a lot of people, including me (I have an Amex Plat, live in NYC). Notwithstanding the ludicrous threshold changes for "elite" status, I'm outraged at the severe restricted access to lounges

    My personal prediction is that spend on delta credit cards will lessen by 20%-30%. Only a moron would try for elite status on a Delta cc at this point. You could get so much more spreading spend on a litany of other cards/combos

    1. Brian Guest

      I can see Amex offering a new top tier Delta CC with unlimted lounge access and a $1000 a year fee. The lounges are overcrowded now, and the price needs to go up to cut the number down.

  48. jak Member

    This article could use a proofread. There are multiple grammatical errors which make it difficult to understand the specific points being made without being reread several times.

  49. 305 Guest

    Biggest mistake on Delta's part was the way they chose to do the math. AA with the "loyalty points" system comes across way better. "Points" are much more "fun" and less serious than calling it all dollars, especially when $1 doesn't necessarily count as $1 (credit card spend).

  50. 9volt Diamond

    The new program essentially eliminates the middle class from reaching Platinum or Diamond status (the two statuses which would mean the most to them).

    If you have the ability to attain $35k MQD (closer to $45k in actual dollars), then you're most likely buying domestic F or international J. There's no way you're reaching $35k MQD flying main cabin.

    Which then posits the question, why would someone in that scenario even need status? They're already...

    The new program essentially eliminates the middle class from reaching Platinum or Diamond status (the two statuses which would mean the most to them).

    If you have the ability to attain $35k MQD (closer to $45k in actual dollars), then you're most likely buying domestic F or international J. There's no way you're reaching $35k MQD flying main cabin.

    Which then posits the question, why would someone in that scenario even need status? They're already flying up front, they're getting priority boarding, free checked bags, and lounge access on international fares.

    It just doesn't compute.

    1. Jerry Wheen Gold

      It looks like the "middle class" such as relatively high yield business travelers only being provided coach tickets by their employers are affected the most.

      What's the point of loyalty if it's hard, if not impossible, to reach meaningful status? All the more when status offers less and less?

      I know many, and have been one, who accepted longer overlays, extra connections... to make status. And benefit from status on board and on the ground....

      It looks like the "middle class" such as relatively high yield business travelers only being provided coach tickets by their employers are affected the most.

      What's the point of loyalty if it's hard, if not impossible, to reach meaningful status? All the more when status offers less and less?

      I know many, and have been one, who accepted longer overlays, extra connections... to make status. And benefit from status on board and on the ground. Now that hardly makes sense any more.

    2. Alex Guest

      Especially since the company will pay for checked bags anyway. The only incentive is seat upgrades, and they basically don't exist anymore.

    3. Bob Guest

      Irony is that people with Diamond are not even middle class. With OPM, even some poor sad sack of a $50k a year with no vacation time salesman may be a Diamond with bossman's money

  51. TravelinWilly Diamond

    I think Delta’s premium reputation among many is due to a halo effect from every trip essentially coming with lounge access thanks to the Amex Platinum, and that will be changing going forward

    Four years ago you were quite the DL fanboy:

    https://onemileatatime.com/delta-air-lines-better/

    It's interesting how airlines manage to change the dynamics in their relationships with customers, often for the worse.

  52. Andy Guest

    As someone who most frequently flies American, oscillating between Gold and Platinum status, and has always been bewildered by how much people love Delta, my biggest fear is the knock on effect to other airlines. With the fallout from this (people looking away from Delta for the first time in decades) and how far Delta has pushed the boundaries in terms of spending I am almost certain we will see AA up their own thresholds...

    As someone who most frequently flies American, oscillating between Gold and Platinum status, and has always been bewildered by how much people love Delta, my biggest fear is the knock on effect to other airlines. With the fallout from this (people looking away from Delta for the first time in decades) and how far Delta has pushed the boundaries in terms of spending I am almost certain we will see AA up their own thresholds significantly for 2025 - and I'm sure United must be 5 minutes away from introducing their own copy of Loyalty Points as well.

    To Ben's point if and when this happens at least it will be freeing to cut up all my airline credit cards and focus purely on % cash returns, even if that mean the fun/gamified element of the points world is gone.

  53. BCF Guest

    The strangest to me is the lounge access changes on the premium Delta card. Unless you can spend huge money, it totally neuters the card. Personally, I spend nothing now on my Amex gold unless it has an Amex offer involved. Now that I have left Seattle where Delta was my backup, not sure it makes sense to even keep the card for the boarding and bag check perks. But yes I have completely dumped Delta at this point.

  54. D3Kingg Guest

    Good riddance and good for Delta. If you want to fly first class then purchase a full fare ticket. You are only valuable to them if you purchase high priced fares.

    Some credit card miles and points guru out there cheated the system and brought these changes forth anyways.

  55. Howard Guest

    I could not agree more. First they gutted the global upgrade certificates and now they sell the premium seats for less and less. So for me as a diamond and million miler to get an upgrade is almost impossible. The good thing coming out of this is now I realize that chasing status is purely an emotional decision. A smart Airlines would have made the changes not as radical so we would still be addicted to the drug of having status.

  56. George Romey Guest

    My sense is this is where the entire industry is headed. As far as that road warrior consultant. Remember he/she is booking flights either through central travel agency (via a ghost card) or on a corporate cc. Few companies allow consultants to book travel out of pocket. And a mid level consultant isn't going to have $20K a month to put on a credit card, exception might be a heavy mortgage payment charged on the...

    My sense is this is where the entire industry is headed. As far as that road warrior consultant. Remember he/she is booking flights either through central travel agency (via a ghost card) or on a corporate cc. Few companies allow consultants to book travel out of pocket. And a mid level consultant isn't going to have $20K a month to put on a credit card, exception might be a heavy mortgage payment charged on the card.

    Why? Because airlines don't think that road warrior traveling 48 weeks a year spending $500-$700 on flights (obviously International consultants would spend more but those tend to be much smaller in numbers) is worth giving boundless free upgrades and other perks too. The game has changed.

    It's why more and more (I travel heavy but all personal) I either am paying for first when reasonable or paying the upgrade fee (AA).

  57. Henry Guest

    The ultimate strategy that will lead to a business to fail is to assume your customers are fool while in writing AI algorithms, you assume them are smart and logical. Who is going to spend on your card while your business class costs 400k points and others, the most costs 200k and with way better values of only 70k. The stupidity assumes customers have no brains and will spend all their points in buying toilet...

    The ultimate strategy that will lead to a business to fail is to assume your customers are fool while in writing AI algorithms, you assume them are smart and logical. Who is going to spend on your card while your business class costs 400k points and others, the most costs 200k and with way better values of only 70k. The stupidity assumes customers have no brains and will spend all their points in buying toilet paper like about 10 years ago, the fact is we all get educated on not to spend your points on toilet paper by social medias and chatGPT. Good luck with smart feeling business like Delta, looking forward to the bankruptcy.

  58. stogieguy7 Diamond

    I would fall into that category of "management/consultant" who flies a lot, decides with whom he flies, but does NOT spend $75k/year on any card. And never will. For me, there's no sense in considering loyalty to DL. I am gold on UA, but if they did the same as DL, I'd go free agent. The perks are nice, but not worth that kind of spend. And the idea of purely revenue-based points earning is...

    I would fall into that category of "management/consultant" who flies a lot, decides with whom he flies, but does NOT spend $75k/year on any card. And never will. For me, there's no sense in considering loyalty to DL. I am gold on UA, but if they did the same as DL, I'd go free agent. The perks are nice, but not worth that kind of spend. And the idea of purely revenue-based points earning is a big middle finger to frequent travelers who fly for personal enjoyment/need and to many (many) business travelers who are still expected to book the best deal within company-set parameters. I see why DL did it, but for the first time in FF history, I see this as a change that will result in fewer people collecting SkyPesos than before.

  59. Never In Doubt Guest

    Given that Tim Dunn’s job is effectively going to every aviation /points /miles blog to tell people how great Delta is, it must have been a brutal week for him.

    Please keep him in your thoughts and prayers.

  60. Dempseyzdad Diamond

    The mileage question remains to be seen...but my problem is with the lounge access capped at 10 visits per year with the AMEX Reserve card. *WHY* would I want to pay the hefty fee, which equals out to about $50 a visit, while trying to fly DL as much as possible to achieve status, but not be allowed in the lounge after 10 visits are up? Am I reading it wrong?

    1. Anthony Diamond

      This - IMO - is the main mistake/misjudgment here. There needs to be a card product that provides unlimited Skyclub access. Maybe they introduce a new card

    2. AD Diamond

      @Anthony, no, there doesn't. I, for one, would happily go back to days were the Crown Room (the former name of the sky club) was a quiet oasis with no food, no crowds and a free bar with limited choices and you paid for membership. Is food an improvement? Definitely, until you're standing in line outside the club and searching for a seat.

      I'll be thrilled to buy a membership again if it's an oasis again.

  61. Nate Meyer Guest

    Feels like this is a bigger issue for Amex Platinum than DL to some extent. That's a big benefit that is just disappearing, and most of the other benefits can be gotten from other cards.

    For DL, if you are truly a frequent DL Business traveler and willing to pay (or your employer is willing to pay) rack rate on flights, you'll hit status more or less on flights alone.

    This screws over mileage runners...

    Feels like this is a bigger issue for Amex Platinum than DL to some extent. That's a big benefit that is just disappearing, and most of the other benefits can be gotten from other cards.

    For DL, if you are truly a frequent DL Business traveler and willing to pay (or your employer is willing to pay) rack rate on flights, you'll hit status more or less on flights alone.

    This screws over mileage runners or folks trying to play the points game without dropping obscene amounts of $$$, but that seems like a small piece of the pie.

    1. Brian Guest

      Never understand the “always delta” people. Delta has done a good job brainwashing people into thinking they run a better and more reliable airline. But the statistics show otherwise. To all of the “elites” hope you enjoy your “upgrades” to comfort + lol. And remember you’re paying more to fly delta because, well I’m not really sure.

    2. Gray Guest

      Oh, I'm under no impression that Delta is "well run". It's just usually the "right amount of poorly run" for my purposes.

    3. jedipenguin Guest

      United is a better run carrier by leaps and bounds over Delta. Long live the Tulip

    4. BCF Guest

      I don’t think so. The platinum Amex still has a market for folks who want a premium card and fly Delta sometimes. As others point out the crazy one to me is the top Delta card changes. Most road warriors won’t spend enough but can easily hit 100 flights in a year. That card is now mostly useless for them. And beyond a few crazy spenders, I don’t know who the target audience is now.

  62. tipsyinmadras Diamond

    Part of why people are so angry is that Delta delivered the message extremely poorly by not acknowledging the negative impact upfront and instead try to spin it as an improvement - don't spit in my face and tell me it's raining

    This article in AdWeek hits the nail on the head:
    https://www.adweek.com/brand-marketing/delta-delivered-bad-news-and-did-it-poorly/

  63. JetSetFly Guest

    People who can spend 300k and up per year on their delta credit card likely already buy F tickets. They don’t need status. People who need status are the ones who can barely make status. Delta is very good at calculating where that threshold is. I don’t fly Delta often. I’m not hub captive. I fly whomever have the best priced F ticket and best schedule for me. I feel for those road warriors who...

    People who can spend 300k and up per year on their delta credit card likely already buy F tickets. They don’t need status. People who need status are the ones who can barely make status. Delta is very good at calculating where that threshold is. I don’t fly Delta often. I’m not hub captive. I fly whomever have the best priced F ticket and best schedule for me. I feel for those road warriors who are on company dime and sit in economy and now barely have access to a delta lounge in between flights. I suspect Delta will see no changed for those hub captive. For those who live around big cities like NY, LA, and SF, Delta will loose out on loyal customers.

    1. Miles Guest

      300k on a personal card, yes.
      300k on a business card? No.

      Plenty of small businesses spend six figures on expenses but their owners may not be that kind of wealthy.

      These people aren’t flying F all the time.

      Given that Delta has introduced restrictions on personal signup bonuses but not business ones, AND has increased signup bonuses on business cards… I think they may be targeting this group.

  64. IrishAlan Diamond

    In truth does any US carrier deserve loyalty anymore? Even as a CLT hub hostage where a whopping 90% of flights are operated by AA, I’m only willing to be so loyal.

  65. Gray Guest

    Lucky,
    As the guy who teased you over not being brutal enough last week, the one thing I'd say is that Gold, Platinum, and Diamond status all come with some ancillary benefits (e.g. blank-check free SDC within paid F from Gold on up, plus Choice Benefits at Plat/Diamond) and I wouldn't just zero those out.

    But otherwise I agree with you across the board here - I'm starting to plot out a "party switch"...

    Lucky,
    As the guy who teased you over not being brutal enough last week, the one thing I'd say is that Gold, Platinum, and Diamond status all come with some ancillary benefits (e.g. blank-check free SDC within paid F from Gold on up, plus Choice Benefits at Plat/Diamond) and I wouldn't just zero those out.

    But otherwise I agree with you across the board here - I'm starting to plot out a "party switch" to AA/BA (likely taking advantage of the Instant Status Match alongside getting one of their CCs - a friend who is an FA has a referral for the Barclays card, and I'll probably get the Citi one right after that and pocket the bonuses while charging along for status (no pun intended).

  66. Baron Guest

    I truly wonder who can afford the high high cost of top status solely on credit card spend. If they're going to spend hundreds of thousands on a credit card, will obtaining Delta status be worth it? I just don't know where all these wealthy people are who care so little about effectively using their credit cards, that is to say, there have to be more rewarding credit cards than to just obtain Delta's top...

    I truly wonder who can afford the high high cost of top status solely on credit card spend. If they're going to spend hundreds of thousands on a credit card, will obtaining Delta status be worth it? I just don't know where all these wealthy people are who care so little about effectively using their credit cards, that is to say, there have to be more rewarding credit cards than to just obtain Delta's top status. Based on how I see the same passenger behavior in all AMEX Centurion lounges (mad dashes for food and alcohol, eating and drinking as much as possible), I think people who pay the annual fee for that card (a paltry $695 per year), are on par with the customers Delta supposedly serves. I don't see that crowd spending hundreds of thousands on their Delta cards if they have them. Let's not forget that Delta's top status is unlikely to equal complimentary upgrades. If 1st class load factor is 74%, before these changes, what's it going to be when people have to buy high cost tickets?

    1. Anthony Diamond

      The “earning status solely on credit card spending” thing is really a travel blogger phenomenon. Most people earn status primarily through paid tickets (card spending is usually just supplementary)

    2. Jack Guest

      I wouldn't be so sure. I know lots of business owners who push hundreds of thousands of credit card spending a year through airline cards to get points, and if they can get status out of it that's even better.

      It may or may not be a majority of people, but it's far from a "travel blogger phenomenon".

    3. TranceXplant Member

      Jack,

      There's definitely some truth to this. The question is why would someone continue to do so now with this particular airline? Delta points are practically worthless compared to other loyalty currencies and status will require far more spend pushing than elsewhere. Wouldn't an AA card (same system, much lower thresholds) or just a regular Amex make more sense for most of these business owners?

    4. Joe Guest

      I don't think so. I think the high spend is the province of the small business owner.

  67. NK3 Gold

    As a longtime Delta loyalist/apologist, I definitely agree it's just not worth it anymore. I'm currently Diamond, will hit 1 MM next month, but actually decided at the beginning of this year it was not worth hitting Diamond again (when they changed from 15k to 20k MQDs).

    I think part of the problem here is they may have waited too long to do this. They moved the goalpost several times before, while simultaneously cutting...

    As a longtime Delta loyalist/apologist, I definitely agree it's just not worth it anymore. I'm currently Diamond, will hit 1 MM next month, but actually decided at the beginning of this year it was not worth hitting Diamond again (when they changed from 15k to 20k MQDs).

    I think part of the problem here is they may have waited too long to do this. They moved the goalpost several times before, while simultaneously cutting benefits to make status less valuable. I have also seen a steep drop in service, with a rather high number of negative events, and none of the "delight and surprise" moments. I used to fly Delta when it was not the fastest or most convenient, because at least it was pleasant. While I have had ok experiences recently, nothing has really stood out to make me loyal. And combine this with a loyalty program that feels more and more transactional, as a consumer I will be more transactional.

    Earlier this year I thought Delta would still be my preferred airline, even if I was not Diamond. Now I think I will still fly them, but only when the cost & timing are best.

  68. Tim Dunn Diamond

    Ben, who makes a living hawking credit cards and points, along with a whole lot of other people that are making money talking about Delta's moves miss is that Delta has built its network and improved its product to the point that it does not need to buy loyalty as it did before and other airlines have been doing.

    God Save the Points got it. I have said it over and over that Delta is...

    Ben, who makes a living hawking credit cards and points, along with a whole lot of other people that are making money talking about Delta's moves miss is that Delta has built its network and improved its product to the point that it does not need to buy loyalty as it did before and other airlines have been doing.

    God Save the Points got it. I have said it over and over that Delta is running the best BUSINESS and has the greatest access to premium revenue. Business travel is first and foremost about network, schedule and product. Delta has nailed it better than any other US airline.

    The reality is that there are PLENTY Of people that still meet the new elite standards and also thresholds; they just don't happen to be the ones moaning on the internet.

    and the sad thing is that people that incessantly say how dumb Delta has been w/ their SkyMiles changes will never admit they were wrong when Delta's financial results continue to show increasing revenue including for Skymiles.

    If Delta blows it, it won't be a secret. But I can guarantee you that a whole lot of people, Ben and Gary included, will never admit they were wrong.

    1. digital_notmad Diamond

      Friend, when Delta blows it, you'll be back here waxing poetic about how "at least Delta had the gusto to try something new, they're always #innovating and will adjust to this, just watch!" etc. etc.

      Delta cannot fail, it can only be failed by its lowly (ex) customers!

    2. Khatl Diamond

      Totally agree. I really dislike Delta as a passenger and flyer in how it rewards my loyalty. But, as a shareholder, I've been loving it.

    3. Khatl Diamond

      I'll take back the totally agree :-). I agree that Delta is running a great business.

      There are tons of regular business travelers who most definitely will be demoted in status come the end of 2024 by the new thresholds and elite standards, even when their travel remains the same. I assume Delta must have crunched the numbers (as they know existing spend) to know the impact at each status level.

      How those...

      I'll take back the totally agree :-). I agree that Delta is running a great business.

      There are tons of regular business travelers who most definitely will be demoted in status come the end of 2024 by the new thresholds and elite standards, even when their travel remains the same. I assume Delta must have crunched the numbers (as they know existing spend) to know the impact at each status level.

      How those customers react when their status downgrades, and how Delta manages that if customer's reaction is severe, remains an open question.

    4. Santos Guest

      "But, as a shareholder, I've been loving it."

      Oof. Airline stocks? The worst of the cyclicals? I hope you're flexing some serious options trading if you expect to see good returns from DAL.

    5. MaxPower Diamond

      "If Delta blows it, it won't be a secret. But I can guarantee you that a whole lot of people, Ben and Gary included, will never admit they were wrong."

      Have you ever? lol

    6. ll5777779 Member

      Tim, I think people on the forums don't typically engage with you on the "business strategy" arguments you make, so let me try to make a good faith attempt at doing so here

      Delta, on the consumer / leisure / SMB side of things, has created what is very factually a compelling loyalty flywheel - open a co-branded credit card and get shortcuts to fly more comfortably (SC access and complimentary upgrades via easier paths...

      Tim, I think people on the forums don't typically engage with you on the "business strategy" arguments you make, so let me try to make a good faith attempt at doing so here

      Delta, on the consumer / leisure / SMB side of things, has created what is very factually a compelling loyalty flywheel - open a co-branded credit card and get shortcuts to fly more comfortably (SC access and complimentary upgrades via easier paths to medallion status) and rewarded more (earn extra miles, 15% discount on award bookings). I don't have the stats on hand, but I would imagine the population of engaged DL co-branded cardholders is by far the largest of the US3, and ofc DL management itself has highlighted its strength as a component of its growth

      It strikes me, then, that a critical risk of this devaluation, even beyond the first order of effect of increasing cancellations and depressing short-to-medium term new cardholder acquisition (due to the intense negative press), is this: how many cardholders / medallion members are you losing who are paying the premium to fly DL because they have bought into the DL CC ecosystem and expect that engagement to be rewarded with rich benefits?

      Put another way - what is DL's pricing power between (1) Medallion members (2) CC cardholder populations without medallion status (3) the general public ("free agents") and (4) customers loyal to other airlines? I imagine it falls as you move from (1) to (2) to (3) to (4). If it's true that DL's pricing power is primarily due to the strength of its product, then even a decrease in the populations of (1) and (2) would not severely impact its pricing power overall, and it can make up the difference with (3) and (4). But if it's true that DL's pricing power is concentrated on its ability to monetize (1) and (2) relative to its peers, then these changes will end up being pretty bad. I obviously don't have the granular DL data to do this analysis - but if you have any publicly available data that might tell us the answer one way or another (as opposed to trusting DL management's bet as an implicit endorsement), that would be helpful!

      And as noted above, DL's co-branded business is the largest of the US3 - and the reverse edge to this is that DL's business is MOST sensitive to the performance of its credit cards, and its passenger population is probably disproportionately made up of co-branded cardholders. The program has clearly been a powerful driver of DL's top-line growth. To hobble this growth lever to such a degree - I mean it's ballsy!

    7. BenjaminGuttery Diamond

      ll5777779: Great Job laying out some coherent points to counter the Prophet Tim Dunn. I highly doubt he has the data You've asked for though. He seems to only parrot the DL Shareholder talking points.

    8. Tim Dunn Diamond

      Outstanding well articulated points.

      The simple answer is that Delta has a revenue premium based on transportation revenues which contained with their growing share in top premium markets makes this a lot lower risk than slot of people believe.
      The data is available

    9. DL Marketing Premium Guest

      If the data is available, then provide it. Because you constantly hawk data without actually providing any of it.

      The last 4 quarters (2023Q3-2023Q2 inclusive) as reported by USDOT shows the following.

      DL trailing UA in profitability over the Pacific in the last 4 consecutive quarters.

      DL trailing AA in profitability in the Latin market the last 4 consecutive quarters. DL also trailed UA in 3 consecutive quarters.

      DL and UA being the top in...

      If the data is available, then provide it. Because you constantly hawk data without actually providing any of it.

      The last 4 quarters (2023Q3-2023Q2 inclusive) as reported by USDOT shows the following.

      DL trailing UA in profitability over the Pacific in the last 4 consecutive quarters.

      DL trailing AA in profitability in the Latin market the last 4 consecutive quarters. DL also trailed UA in 3 consecutive quarters.

      DL and UA being the top in the Atlantic for two quarters each.

      DL led the domestic market and systemwide for two quarters while trailing AA or UA in the remaining two.

      Prior to COVID, DL dominated in all quarters and all regions with the exception of Latin America.

      DL spent around 4 BILLION dollars buying ownership stakes in various airlines: Air France-KLM, Virgin Atlantic, Aeromexico, LATAM, Korean Air, and China Eastern. Then spent around 2 billion dollars trying to salvage its position after COVID wiped out equity. Now DL has LESS ownership stakes in nearly every one of the above airlines.

      Now they’re gutting both the SkyMiles and their cobranded credit cards without providing any additional benefits. And their expectation is higher engagement and more spending on credit cards..? Should we also remove profit sharing from frontline employees and give it only to the pilots to incentivize the remaining labor groups to work harder?

      The constant blunders as of late such as Tom Brady and what WheelsUp did to DPJ but the spin to employees and shareholders as if it’s somehow a win is exhausting.

    10. Nick Guest

      The spin is absurd, and Tim spins so hard he's probably get paid by DL, and Tim isn't even his real name.

      DL cannot simultaneously celebrate the fact that DL credit card swipes accounted for 1% of U.S. GDP in 2022, and suggest they intend to increase this share, and then expect to accomplish this goal by dis-incentivizing CC utilization. It's absurd and absolutely arrogant. As a BIZ-school professor, I expect to be teaching this...

      The spin is absurd, and Tim spins so hard he's probably get paid by DL, and Tim isn't even his real name.

      DL cannot simultaneously celebrate the fact that DL credit card swipes accounted for 1% of U.S. GDP in 2022, and suggest they intend to increase this share, and then expect to accomplish this goal by dis-incentivizing CC utilization. It's absurd and absolutely arrogant. As a BIZ-school professor, I expect to be teaching this as a case study some day --- a lesson in taking your customers for granted.

    11. Tim Dunn Diamond

      It is not a surprise that Delta's profitability fell during the pandemic while United's was high because it did not retire aircraft.

      The whole point of DL's growth now - which is as high or higher than UA - is because DL is regaining the efficiencies but w/ better costs.

      Go back 10 years or at least 3 years pre-covid when noise and a consistent playing field was present.

      or go forward for the next...

      It is not a surprise that Delta's profitability fell during the pandemic while United's was high because it did not retire aircraft.

      The whole point of DL's growth now - which is as high or higher than UA - is because DL is regaining the efficiencies but w/ better costs.

      Go back 10 years or at least 3 years pre-covid when noise and a consistent playing field was present.

      or go forward for the next 3 years - when earnings are released.

      Delta has long been the most profitable airline in the world and will be again including across the Atlantic and Pacific.

      United moves volumes.

      American might be more profitable on a long term basis than United and certainly to Latin America. AA is much larger than DL or UA in Latin America so their profit in absolute dollars will be larger

    12. DL Marketing Premium Guest

      Except DL received several new aircraft during the last 4 quarters to replace more than enough of the retired aircraft. Other than the 18 777s, what other major aircraft retirements gave DL a structural disadvantage to compete internationally?

      AA retired the ENTIRETY of their 757, 767, and A330 which created a huge structural disadvantage yet faired well. UA retired none of its wide bodies which caused huge fuel and maintanence disadvantages and also faired...

      Except DL received several new aircraft during the last 4 quarters to replace more than enough of the retired aircraft. Other than the 18 777s, what other major aircraft retirements gave DL a structural disadvantage to compete internationally?

      AA retired the ENTIRETY of their 757, 767, and A330 which created a huge structural disadvantage yet faired well. UA retired none of its wide bodies which caused huge fuel and maintanence disadvantages and also faired well.

      It’s hilarious how DL has all these advantages: unprecented market share in their top markets, AMEX, refinery and fuel advantage, MRO, several new aircraft, brand recognition, multiple airline ownership stakes. Yet DL is still neck and neck or trailing the rest of the legacies.

      Relying on past data and future data to argue the present when present data is readily available is a fools errand. Perhaps DL should rebrand as an LCC if they have the mentality of past success becoming future realities.

      AA and UA are closing the profitability gap with DL and that is the reality. Whether or not you accept it or go on yet another mental episode to distort that reality is up to you.

    13. Mark Guest

      Where’s that data you seem to have difficulty supplying?

  69. Donna Diamond

    Their high end cobranded cards will surely take a hit. The low end card giving free checked bags and boarding priority may be stable but I can imagine why anyone would purchase flights on those cards or spend on anything. If you travel a lot for business have a choice who you fly and are not tied to corporate accounts, there is no reason to fly Delta.

    1. Brian Guest

      Most of us dont have a choice to fly if we want non stop service and live in a hub. If you live in CLT or DFW, you fly AA, ATL and MSP you fly DL, EWR or HOU then UL. No one if going to elect stops repeatedly on another carrier to avoid a specific legacy airline.

  70. Dave Guest

    No premium airline serves canned wine in first class

  71. Mark Guest

    I'm one of those insanely loyal Delta people who truly felt blindsided and betrayed by the recent changes. The shock has begun to wear off but now comes the real question of strategy/changes. I truly value SkyClub access when I fly but I refuse to just spend $75k on a reserve card - with 1 mile per dollar and a horrific 10:1 earning rate. To me Delta really insulted their customers with this. I can...

    I'm one of those insanely loyal Delta people who truly felt blindsided and betrayed by the recent changes. The shock has begun to wear off but now comes the real question of strategy/changes. I truly value SkyClub access when I fly but I refuse to just spend $75k on a reserve card - with 1 mile per dollar and a horrific 10:1 earning rate. To me Delta really insulted their customers with this. I can hit $75k - and am thinking of just putting in on my Amex plat (which i know is still not a great earning rate) but at least allows me to transfer to other programs, any thoughts? I truly believe Delta will limit SkyClub memberships even further - perhaps just eliminiating the option to buy membership altogether.

    1. EB Guest

      Amex plat isn’t good for pints. Use the gold for restaurants and grocery and get a card that has 2 points on every dollar spent for the rest. Turn that 75k points in to 300k points per year.

  72. polarbear Gold

    Well written.
    I was one of those who could maintain gold (and plat post-covid) with some effort (like overpaying $100-$150 on TATL leisure trips to take Skyteam flight) and making sure my domestic work travel is on DL. And a minimum of $25k on Amex, of course. Sometimes 50k - if I needed a boost.
    I did enjoy better soft treatment (and I do believe one gains a lot here).
    There is...

    Well written.
    I was one of those who could maintain gold (and plat post-covid) with some effort (like overpaying $100-$150 on TATL leisure trips to take Skyteam flight) and making sure my domestic work travel is on DL. And a minimum of $25k on Amex, of course. Sometimes 50k - if I needed a boost.
    I did enjoy better soft treatment (and I do believe one gains a lot here).
    There is no way I can get past silver in the new reality. And I am non-DL hub captive.
    NOw it is time to see if DL will miss me on those TATL flights - or will be relieved that their premium line phone agents do not have to spend time doing creative rebookings for me because schedule one of my future legs was moved by an hour.
    I will miss Delta for sure...

  73. Justin Guest

    My take is the strategy is reward those who fly the most ($35k in flights isn’t that uncommon these days for international business travelers), while also giving a path to spend to Diamond for high spenders. For those who spend high (flights or cards) probably buying first anyways, so the value is in the service. With fewer diamonds, service improves.

    Will it work and not backfire, not sure. But I see a logic to it. If everyone is top tier, no one is.

  74. John Guest

    American's partner program is nothing to be excited over lately. Qantas mileage space in business class for two is like finding a unicorn. JAL used to be decent but has all but disappeared lately. Etihad used to be pretty easy to find from NY or ORD but evaporated until you hit London. If it wasn't for Qatar award seats I'd head over to United instead.

    1. Andrew Guest

      Eitihad is an underrated partner of AA. Flying between BKK and TLV in business for 40,000 miles.

  75. Anthony Diamond

    This is a light travel year for me - I will do about 25 segments on Delta and maybe get to $15K to $16K in MQD. This will get me to Platinum (largely because I didn't do an annual TATL business trip this year - I am scheduled for one or two next year). I spent about $35K on Delta Cards. If I have the same exact travel pattern and card spend pattern next year...

    This is a light travel year for me - I will do about 25 segments on Delta and maybe get to $15K to $16K in MQD. This will get me to Platinum (largely because I didn't do an annual TATL business trip this year - I am scheduled for one or two next year). I spent about $35K on Delta Cards. If I have the same exact travel pattern and card spend pattern next year - I will still be Platinum in the new program. Given the cards I hold and club access with Delta One, I think all of my club visits will also be covered. So basically no change in my status, spend patterns, or club access in the new program. The issue is the huge jump from Platinum to Diamond.

  76. JP Guest

    I for one did not mind Delta moving to a revenue based model. When I was a consultant, I would regularly spend 30-40K+ on Delta but barely make Gold status as I was flying short haul, expensive, non-1st class flights. It never made sense to me where I spending $900 - $1,200 from DTW - LGA in coach and not getting premium benefits. I've retired from that gig but the thought made sense - reward...

    I for one did not mind Delta moving to a revenue based model. When I was a consultant, I would regularly spend 30-40K+ on Delta but barely make Gold status as I was flying short haul, expensive, non-1st class flights. It never made sense to me where I spending $900 - $1,200 from DTW - LGA in coach and not getting premium benefits. I've retired from that gig but the thought made sense - reward those that bring in the most revenue or profit (i.e., not the mileage runners).

    With that said, that was under the condition that 1) Delta kept the amount to Diamond at a reasonable level 2) card spend was accrued at a reasonable level 3) Elite status meant something (upgrades, perks) 4) Miles are useful

    The problem is the way that Delta implemented this and their current business. First class is 80% paid now so upgrades are few and far between ever for Diamonds, having the Reserve card and only having a 1/10 per dollar accrual is a slap in the face, the rest of Elite perks are lower priority / less useful with the exception of Platinum and above getting free comfort seats, and redemption rates are somewhat reasonable. To top it all off with the Skyclub now being limited on a $600 a year card is insulting. I love(d) Delta and was a huge proponent but being loyal to them once my Platinum status goes away now as a casual flyer is over. I'm canceling my reserve card as the value was barely there before and now seems outright silly to keep it (the 15% skymiles discount is nice). I'm hub captive and will try and fly Delta when I can point-to-point but when I'm going somewhere with a connection - free agent. There is a Delta premium and if I'm not given the status or small perks for being loyal, then why be loyal? Times are tight and my family is larger. Having a $75-150 difference in ticket prices now x4 is a huge hurdle to overcome with nothing coming back my way.

    This will not implode Delta's business but it will certainly start to nip at the margins in good times and really hurt during the bad times.

  77. TravelMD Guest

    Ben - do you think there are any changes to choice benefits Delta could make that could temper some of the outrage we are seeing? I wonder if the delay between announcing Skymiles program changes vs choice benefit changes was intentional on their part to allow them gauge customer response and activate more vs less generous choice benefits (eg GUCs return to being able to clear economy directly into D1). Based on their steady devaluation...

    Ben - do you think there are any changes to choice benefits Delta could make that could temper some of the outrage we are seeing? I wonder if the delay between announcing Skymiles program changes vs choice benefit changes was intentional on their part to allow them gauge customer response and activate more vs less generous choice benefits (eg GUCs return to being able to clear economy directly into D1). Based on their steady devaluation of the skymiles program, I suspect this is wishful thinking on my part.

    1. Ben Schlappig OMAAT

      @ TravelMD -- I'm very curious to see what Delta comes up with on the Choice Benefits front. I actually think Delta thought its new program wouldn't be horribly received, and is probably quite surprised now. I wouldn't be surprised if Delta introduces more generous Choice Benefits than initially planned.

    2. AD Diamond

      @Ben, I hope you're right. As you've pointed out, the biggest thing status used to provide was upgrades. And, as DL (and all the carriers) sell more F seats, fewer upgrades are available. I do believe that reducing the number elites at each tier may help them provide better service -- and maybe even the occasional upgrade for Diamonds -- the value of the program is really questionable for elites right now - even during...

      @Ben, I hope you're right. As you've pointed out, the biggest thing status used to provide was upgrades. And, as DL (and all the carriers) sell more F seats, fewer upgrades are available. I do believe that reducing the number elites at each tier may help them provide better service -- and maybe even the occasional upgrade for Diamonds -- the value of the program is really questionable for elites right now - even during irrops. This year I struggled to see value in my Diamond choice benefits -- and the same is true for my AA LP rewards. But at least I get upgrades there.

      So, what is the program going to give elites now?

      As someone who is well compensated and is lucky enough to have my employer buy premium class, I'll actually qualify without effort whereas in the old program I had to work to get the seat miles in -- and spent $30K/year on my DL Reserve to pick up 15K MQMs. Or, if I had a big expense, I'd do $60k. But $75K on the card for lounge access? If I'm going to do that, I'd do it on the Amex Plat.

      Next year my reserve spend will be pretty much zero. And I think that will be true for many. I think I'll keep the card for the 15% off award flights, as that has been very lucrative for me -- using my skymiles for good redemptions on domestic flights.

      But I digress. Hoping to see DL do something for the elites that stay.

    3. No Longer Delta Loyal Guest

      The Delta Platinum AmEx provides the same 15% off on redemptions and a free companion ticket for a fraction the annual fee.

  78. John Guest

    I am also having a hard time wrapping my head around these changes. But my gut feeling is the same:
    "But I think airlines are getting to the point where they’re at risk of killing the golden goose"

    To an extent, they are cashing out loyalty/goodwill they've earned with customers in the past. So the risk is that that stash of past loyalty/trust/goodwill or whatever you want to call it will eventually be depleted.

    ...

    I am also having a hard time wrapping my head around these changes. But my gut feeling is the same:
    "But I think airlines are getting to the point where they’re at risk of killing the golden goose"

    To an extent, they are cashing out loyalty/goodwill they've earned with customers in the past. So the risk is that that stash of past loyalty/trust/goodwill or whatever you want to call it will eventually be depleted.

    I don't think this is the only thing going on. They are still giving something back to customers as well. DL staff often takes very nice care of Platinums (and Diamonds, even tnough I don't have personal experience).

    But overall, they're demanding more without giving back more.

    There must be a breaking point somewhere where they've gone too far. It's really hard to tell where that is, though. As an anology, look at the "enhancements" in economy which were able to withstand market heat. Those went waaay further than anyone would have predicted 20 or even just 10 years ago.

    1. John Guest

      I've thought this as well and wonder if they've decided the golden goose isn't so golden anymore with less business travel post-COVID.

    2. Brian Guest

      I typically spend around 3 to 5 million a year on credit cards. No, this doesn't mean I'm wealthy. I own a roofing company and pay for my materials through my supplier on credit cards. My loyalty is to Delta because I think they are the best airline. With these changes to the program, I'm still going to fly Delta. I just have to figure out how to navigate my spending with my cards. Ben,...

      I typically spend around 3 to 5 million a year on credit cards. No, this doesn't mean I'm wealthy. I own a roofing company and pay for my materials through my supplier on credit cards. My loyalty is to Delta because I think they are the best airline. With these changes to the program, I'm still going to fly Delta. I just have to figure out how to navigate my spending with my cards. Ben, I haven't read where it takes 750K in spend to get unlimited lounge access. My question to Ben is how would you navigate your credit card spend with spending a few million to earn those precious credit card dollars. I have a choice of a small rebate to pay via check with my supplier, but the points end up better as I don't get 1099'd on miles like I can on a rebate that comes via check that I have to account for at the end of the year. I have a Chase Ink and a Capital One Spark and with those I can buy things through Amazon for "free" using points and get 2 or 2.5%. So all of those points help me run my business with buying office stuff and getting free hotels and buying bonus things for employees and subcontractors. But, I usually spend 250K on the Delta Reseve before using the other cards. What is the best strategy if I'm going to remain with Delta and my business model uses a very high credit card spend? I'm surely in the same boat as a lot of small business owners that use very high credit card spend as a part of their business so this question hopefully helps others too.

  79. Ivan X Gold

    It should be said that, for the sake of completeness, that you can also spend your way to pubic top tier status on United, though they certainly make it hard, and it still requires a little bit of flying.

    Every $12,000 spent in a calendar year earns you 500 PQP, and you earn 1K when you earn 24,000 PQP and 4 PQF (actual flown segments on UA metal) in a calendar year. So, $576,000 spent...

    It should be said that, for the sake of completeness, that you can also spend your way to pubic top tier status on United, though they certainly make it hard, and it still requires a little bit of flying.

    Every $12,000 spent in a calendar year earns you 500 PQP, and you earn 1K when you earn 24,000 PQP and 4 PQF (actual flown segments on UA metal) in a calendar year. So, $576,000 spent on United cards, plus four UA metal segments, will get you to 1K.

    But, here's where they really haven't made it a business plan like Delta or American have: you'd need several premium United cards, acquired over a period of time, because the cards themselves are capped in their annual PQP earnings: 6,000 for the Quest, 8,000 for the Club Infinite, 1,000 for all paid others (both personal and small business), and 0 for no annual fee cards.

    I think the most cost effective option would be four Quest cards ($250 annually, but effectively $125 after automatically applied annual United travel credit). But, because Chase won't approve new applications for a card you're already holding, and because they only allow product changes from another card in the same family, the only way to get multiples of the same card is to product change from another United card. And, because (as far as I know) Chase won't product change a card in its first year, that means having to acquire other United personal cards, hold them for a year, and then change them to Quest cards.

    So, the quickest way to get four Quest cards would be to open all four Chase United personal cards (Gateway, Explorer, Quest, Club Infinite), staggered of course since you can't apply for them all at once, and then product change the non-Quest cards to Quests at the start of their second year. The cheapest way would be to get Gateway cards, one year at a time, temporarily changing them to Explorer when applying for a new one, then changing them back (Chase will prorate the annual Explorer fee) once the new Gateway card is obtained.

    And, of course, you'd need to track each Quest card to ensure that you switch to the next one once you've hit 6,000 PQP.

    I'm not saying anyone would *want* to do this, but someone *could*. You'd have to really, really, really want 1K.

  80. Bgriff Guest

    BTW, some of those management consultants will continue to get in because the Corporate Amex Platinum will continue to offer unlimited Sky Club access, just as it continues to offer Centurion guesting privileges, presumably because corporate card holders in theory don't have discretion over whether they spend $75K on their cards. I know some firms -- mine is one of them -- give you the option to pay to upgrade your corporate Amex to Platinum...

    BTW, some of those management consultants will continue to get in because the Corporate Amex Platinum will continue to offer unlimited Sky Club access, just as it continues to offer Centurion guesting privileges, presumably because corporate card holders in theory don't have discretion over whether they spend $75K on their cards. I know some firms -- mine is one of them -- give you the option to pay to upgrade your corporate Amex to Platinum out of pocket, which may be worthwhile for some, though it sucks for those who work for small businesses or otherwise don't get a corporate Amex, and doesn't offer an easy/cheap way to bring a spouse to the club with you.

  81. StevenS Guest

    Not sure I see much left in this game. Looking at going to Paris with my wife next September. On United, I am seeing Business Class for just under 500,000 per person round trip - one million friggin miles! For years I knew I could count on getting RT Business to Europe for 125,000 pp. How many years would most of us have to save points for one lousy trip! Sold my dental practice 5...

    Not sure I see much left in this game. Looking at going to Paris with my wife next September. On United, I am seeing Business Class for just under 500,000 per person round trip - one million friggin miles! For years I knew I could count on getting RT Business to Europe for 125,000 pp. How many years would most of us have to save points for one lousy trip! Sold my dental practice 5 years ago so no longer manufacture points, but back in the day, NEVER would have amassed that many. It's Lucy with the football now. And we're spoiled traveling up front!

    1. tda1986 Diamond

      Transferable points is the name of the game. I've booked three business class trips for 2-3 passengers in the past two years using Avianca or Flying Blue miles. Cost per passenger was roughly 135k round trip--even less when you consider the 15% transfer bonus I got with LifeMiles for one trip. Of course, availability is still challenging. If I had known in advance which airlines would have availability to my destinations during my travel windows,...

      Transferable points is the name of the game. I've booked three business class trips for 2-3 passengers in the past two years using Avianca or Flying Blue miles. Cost per passenger was roughly 135k round trip--even less when you consider the 15% transfer bonus I got with LifeMiles for one trip. Of course, availability is still challenging. If I had known in advance which airlines would have availability to my destinations during my travel windows, I could've done much better on transfer bonuses, but I didn't want to do any speculative transfers with uncertain availability.

    2. Ivan X Gold

      That’s not even as bad as it gets on United award tickets now. They’re not up at Delta levels, and there are still a few deals here and there if you’re date flexible, but for most tickets, they’re up in FU territory.

      I get it, though — people are flying like crazy post-lockdown, and the airlines think they can get people to give them cash for those seats. So rather than give away extra inventory...

      That’s not even as bad as it gets on United award tickets now. They’re not up at Delta levels, and there are still a few deals here and there if you’re date flexible, but for most tickets, they’re up in FU territory.

      I get it, though — people are flying like crazy post-lockdown, and the airlines think they can get people to give them cash for those seats. So rather than give away extra inventory to make their loyal travelers happy, they see those customers as potentially taking cash out of their pocket. It’s in their interest, unfortunately, to find the sweet spot where they can offer their customers the least while keeping them from spending cash on competitors. If they step over the line, or people stop spending as much cash on plane tickets so they’ve got empty seats around, then we may see award prices come back down. Or maybe they’ll just lower the cash prices if they think they can get away with keeping award prices high without losing loyalty.

      Also, I’m not complaining, but signup bonuses on credit cards are way higher than they used to be, so, it’s a form of inflation due to increased currency supply. Unfortunately, earning from spending hasn’t increased, so normal use of a credit card to earn miles is far from what is used to be.

  82. Anthony Diamond

    As one of the resident Delta flyers (along with Tim), I have to respond...

    First - I find these comments misleading / wrong

    "Earning Delta SkyMiles Gold status will require $120K-240K in spending...Earning Delta SkyMiles Diamond status will require $350K-700K in spending..,"
    Why are you ignoring the main way you earn status - paid flights? For me - earning Platinum (which is where I will likely end up in the new program, down...

    As one of the resident Delta flyers (along with Tim), I have to respond...

    First - I find these comments misleading / wrong

    "Earning Delta SkyMiles Gold status will require $120K-240K in spending...Earning Delta SkyMiles Diamond status will require $350K-700K in spending..,"
    Why are you ignoring the main way you earn status - paid flights? For me - earning Platinum (which is where I will likely end up in the new program, down from Diamond) will require about $12,000 to $15,000 in plane tickets, combined with $30,000 to $75,000 or so in credit card spending.
    I would argue a Platinum level flyer *should* be spending into the tens of thousands of dollars on tickets on a major US airline. Think about it - premium transcons cost $2K to $4K, premium TATL or TPAC flights cost $5,000 to $10,000. Your average business traveler who flies domestic economy short run trips, plus a few business class international trips, should be able to get Platinum in the new Delta program. Diamond will be for those true road warriors, big card spenders, etc. I have no issue with that. But when you ignore the paid flights component of status (and ignore stuff like the Delta hotels and car rentals), you are being misleading or dishonest.

    Second - there is no reason to be *loyal" to any program. I fly Delta the most, but I am taking an American Airlines transon in J next week because it fits best with my schedule (I will finally check out the new BA/AA JFK lounges). However, you can choose to fly one airline, or book one chain, more than others. Until Delta actually does stuff like degrade the SkyClubs, or degrade service, or degrade their NYC schedule, I will continue to fly Delta - because it is the most convenient out of NYC and it remains the most pleasant for domestic flying.

    1. Eskimo Guest

      "there is no reason to be *loyal" to any program."

      Isn't that the against the whole idea of a loyalty program, to be "loyal"?

    2. Anthony Diamond

      I've never understood stuff like mattress runs, mileage runs, staying in worse hotels to earn status, etc. I never did any of that.

    3. DLPTATL Guest

      The less valuable loyalty programs have become the more I've started viewing them as rebate programs.

    4. dx Guest

      Your last point is the big one for me too- if it's Delta vs. JetBlue or American in NYC's East Side, there's only one winner in that contest. Newark/United isn't easy enough to get to in my case either.

    5. Ben Schlappig OMAAT

      @ Anthony -- My point isn't that no one should fly Delta. Of course you should fly Delta if the airline is best for your needs. My point is simply that most people shouldn't go out of their way to earn elite status with Delta.

      And my intent isn't to be misleading. When I've talked about American's Loyalty Points system in the past, I've also broken it down by how easily you can earn status...

      @ Anthony -- My point isn't that no one should fly Delta. Of course you should fly Delta if the airline is best for your needs. My point is simply that most people shouldn't go out of their way to earn elite status with Delta.

      And my intent isn't to be misleading. When I've talked about American's Loyalty Points system in the past, I've also broken it down by how easily you can earn status based on spending. If you want to phrase it differently, we can just say that Delta is increasing requirements for Platinum by 50% and for Diamond by 75%. All while offering... seemingly nothing extra?

      I'm curious, if I may ask, since I think it's interesting to hear from someone who is sticking to Delta. Roughly what percent of your travel is in a paid premium cabin? When you book economy with Delta, what percent of the time are you (roughly) currently upgraded as a Diamond?

    6. Anthony Diamond

      I’ve tried to post this multiple times, so apologies if a lot of these posts come through…

      About 1/3 of my flying is paid premium cabin business travel. The policy is that flights over 2,000 miles are business class (some companies set this at 1,500). So that means SFO, LAX, LAS, PHX, HNL, SEA, PDX, SLC, SAN, etc are all business class flights from NYC. You add in Europe, Asia, etc, it can add up...

      I’ve tried to post this multiple times, so apologies if a lot of these posts come through…

      About 1/3 of my flying is paid premium cabin business travel. The policy is that flights over 2,000 miles are business class (some companies set this at 1,500). So that means SFO, LAX, LAS, PHX, HNL, SEA, PDX, SLC, SAN, etc are all business class flights from NYC. You add in Europe, Asia, etc, it can add up for many people. For work I am in California three to four times a year, Europe generally once or twice a year, and the other cities randomly. I know many colleagues and friends that travel a lot more than me with similar percentages

      I think I am at about 40-50% upgrade percentage on domestic flights. Flights to South Florida are very tough but stuff like ORD, ATL, MSP, BNA, etc are common. I will sometimes spring for domestic F on personal flights, especially when the Mrs flies with me

    7. Minus Guest

      Your intent may not be to be misleading but...it is misleading.

      The post says (without any caveats), "Earning Delta SkyMiles Gold status will require $120K-240K in spending" and "Earning Delta SkyMiles Diamond status will require $350K-700K in spending" which is only true if you never once fly Delta, which makes no sense given that you are trying to earn status on the airline.

    8. AD Diamond

      @Ben - As a Diamond 1MM I was last upgraded BOS-CLE on a Thursday afternoon in August. On Tuesday I was upgraded DFW-DCA on AA. Most of my work travel is paid premium, but I do elect to save money on "shorter" flights - hence being on the upgrade list on DFW-DCA.

      However, for DCA-ATL I gave up on upgrades a year ago and use my miles to buy F for all of my...

      @Ben - As a Diamond 1MM I was last upgraded BOS-CLE on a Thursday afternoon in August. On Tuesday I was upgraded DFW-DCA on AA. Most of my work travel is paid premium, but I do elect to save money on "shorter" flights - hence being on the upgrade list on DFW-DCA.

      However, for DCA-ATL I gave up on upgrades a year ago and use my miles to buy F for all of my personal travel. On my trip to ATL last weekend there were 85 people on the upgrade list. So, that's a long version of, Diamond upgrades are so rare that they've driven me to become part of the problem and make upgrades hard for everyone else by paying for F. Before I gave up, I'd say I was being upgraded 1 time in 10 on short hauls.

      Now, I will point out that my partner's company has a corporate contract with DL (mine doesn't) and she gets upgraded probably 80% of the time flying out of ATL, mostly on shorter hauls throughout the south. She also likes to fly very early in the morning and I know that helps her.

      I do think travel patterns matter and the corporate contract is pretty high up the upgrade criteria.

  83. DLPTATL Diamond

    The other valuable perks that came with Platinum and Diamond status (beyond the occasional upgrades that were becoming increasingly infrequent) were the regional and global upgrade certificates; however, Delta has been devaluing these the past several years without any announcement about "enhancements." They've been converted to $s behind the scenes so that a flight from ATL:SLC requires a "global" upgrade certificate. Delta has a bizarre sense of geography for an airline... I've been Plat/Diamond longer...

    The other valuable perks that came with Platinum and Diamond status (beyond the occasional upgrades that were becoming increasingly infrequent) were the regional and global upgrade certificates; however, Delta has been devaluing these the past several years without any announcement about "enhancements." They've been converted to $s behind the scenes so that a flight from ATL:SLC requires a "global" upgrade certificate. Delta has a bizarre sense of geography for an airline... I've been Plat/Diamond longer than I care to remember, but I'm now officially a free agent. Just booked an AA ticket for next month, felt sort of liberating, until I experience the IROPs and have a FA tell me something isn't their job (like my last flight on UA).

    1. niji248 Guest

      I've had two irrops with Delta two weeks in a row on the outbound, which just led me to cancel the trips altogether (both international business class tickets for leisure). Checking the stats on Delta, their on time performance isn't all that great. The most annoying thing about Delta now is that with schedule change, you'd still have to be in the same fare class, like Z for Z, they won't even give you a...

      I've had two irrops with Delta two weeks in a row on the outbound, which just led me to cancel the trips altogether (both international business class tickets for leisure). Checking the stats on Delta, their on time performance isn't all that great. The most annoying thing about Delta now is that with schedule change, you'd still have to be in the same fare class, like Z for Z, they won't even give you a seat in fare "I" even with a 3+ hour schedule change. Being AA EP, I find their phone agents to be helpful and accommodating almost always, and some even went out of their way extra ten miles to help. Delta's Diamond line agents are pleasant, but they seem to be mostly new hires who aren't knowledgeable

  84. AJ Guest

    Any reasonable professional earning $200k to $500k hasn’t been loyal to an airline in years. The golden goose was slaughtered long ago. Long gone are the days of mileage running for status and Hyatt FFN (two nights in Dallas for one in Paris-Vendôme).

    The amount of mental energy that goes into arbitraging anything here is too much relative to value to be derived. No point. Go take that energy and earn a few extra bucks to buy your seats.

    1. Ben Schlappig OMAAT

      @ AJ -- Agreed, from a consumer perspective the best days are behind us in terms of the value of loyalty (though I think not in terms of the overall value we can get from miles & points). However, from the perspective of airlines, their revenue from their loyalty programs has increased over time, so the golden goose hasn't been killed for them, in my opinion.

  85. Trevor_G Member

    In the last few years I got status with both airlines (Alaska MVP Gold) and hotels (Accor Diamond), in addition to what my Amex Platinum gets me. My biggest takeaways from the last few years are: paying for business or first is way easier than chasing status and hoping for an upgrade; I'd be ok with losing airline status but not hotel status; and Marriott status is essentially pointless.

    On a related note, my boss...

    In the last few years I got status with both airlines (Alaska MVP Gold) and hotels (Accor Diamond), in addition to what my Amex Platinum gets me. My biggest takeaways from the last few years are: paying for business or first is way easier than chasing status and hoping for an upgrade; I'd be ok with losing airline status but not hotel status; and Marriott status is essentially pointless.

    On a related note, my boss is a Delta Diamond and we probably get upgrades about the same percentage of the time.

    1. Jerry Wheen Gold

      Having stayed at seven Marriott family hotels in the US the last two weeks I agree that status is not worth a lot - though late checkout and a nicer room in three of those seven cases did carry some value.

      Often in Asia and Middle East, and sometimes in Europe, Marriott status is worth more. Quite a bit more in some cases.

  86. Vinod Guest

    And this matters, why?

    1. Ben Schlappig OMAAT

      @ Vinod -- Is this... directed at the post generally? Because if it is, and you don't see why it matters, then maybe you accidentally clicked on the wrong blog?

  87. adam Guest

    I you are the type of person putting 700K on a card - are you not flying D1 anyway? I'm trying to understand why someone at that level GAF about some loyalty program. For me, I regret the Delta chase now. Wished I'd put more in to my hotel loyalty instead.

    1. Ben Schlappig OMAAT

      @ adam -- Totally fair, but I think it's important to keep in mind that there are a lot of people who spend a LOT on credit cards but aren't necessarily loaded. Rather they just have fairly low margin businesses where they have to buy a lot of supplies. Also, keep in mind people aren't necessarily rational when deciding how to allocate their credit card spending. There's definitely not a lot of upside for many,...

      @ adam -- Totally fair, but I think it's important to keep in mind that there are a lot of people who spend a LOT on credit cards but aren't necessarily loaded. Rather they just have fairly low margin businesses where they have to buy a lot of supplies. Also, keep in mind people aren't necessarily rational when deciding how to allocate their credit card spending. There's definitely not a lot of upside for many, but there's still appeal to having status with an airline.

      At American, we're seeing a bunch of people spend $200K per year on a co-branded credit card to earn Executive Platinum, only to not actually use it a whole lot.

    2. Richard_ Member

      700k gets you 14k on a 2% cash back card. Hard to see how status is worth that.

    3. Greg Guest

      Yes the opportunity cost is important to consider, though should factor in the value of the Delta miles vs the cash or other alternative. Delta miles are minimum worth 1% toward Delta flights as cash. So vs a 2% cash back the difference is at most 1%, which in your example is $7k - still a lot.

      But if someone is spending $350k via Reserve, then it's down to $3.5k plus annual fee difference,...

      Yes the opportunity cost is important to consider, though should factor in the value of the Delta miles vs the cash or other alternative. Delta miles are minimum worth 1% toward Delta flights as cash. So vs a 2% cash back the difference is at most 1%, which in your example is $7k - still a lot.

      But if someone is spending $350k via Reserve, then it's down to $3.5k plus annual fee difference, and most likely that person has at least $5-$10k of airfare spending there, so more likely closer to $250k. That gets to $2500 forgone. Not insignificant, but...in the realm that some can rationalize.

    4. PM1 Gold

      Exactly. My businesses spend $250-300k a year on credit cards. Delta used to get $25k of that but won't from January 1, 2024.

    5. John Guest

      I’m one of those that spend a lot on AA but don’t use my status much. The biggest reason for me is that my daughter lives in DC and I can get some outsized value on award flights from NE Ohio. 15-17k rt on a $ 350-400 ticket. At least AA still has some sweet spots ( even though they may not be sexy ). Delta has no sweet spots anymore save for an occasional sale.

  88. Eskimo Guest

    C'mon OMAAT, don't you think we should give Tim Dunn a break?

    Forget it, he's probably begging for round 2.

  89. shoeguy Guest

    Totally agree. Delta was my back up carrier, and now it no longer will be. They will come crawling back to the customers they've alienated when they start posting losses again after the fog and folly of believing the future of profit is cemented in a massive TATL schedule to leisure destinations, wears off.

  90. NSS Guest

    I live in NYC and LGA is easier for me than EWR. I've been DL Diamond or Platinum every year for many years. I never really got upgraded, so I just buy the seat I want. The cards got me into the club. Status was always a question because buying First or D1, having Clear, etc. I never really got much from it. Thinking I cancel the Reserve and pay for a club membership. It's...

    I live in NYC and LGA is easier for me than EWR. I've been DL Diamond or Platinum every year for many years. I never really got upgraded, so I just buy the seat I want. The cards got me into the club. Status was always a question because buying First or D1, having Clear, etc. I never really got much from it. Thinking I cancel the Reserve and pay for a club membership. It's almost an even trade and then I don't have to worry about counting visits. And I can look at other airlines when it makes sense, like B6 or HA. Spending 350K on a card isn't an option for me anyway.

  91. Jonathan Guest

    "I suspect that Delta will see a significant increase in those spending hundreds of thousands per year on credit cards,"

    I disagree on this, but only because I think anyone who HAS this capital is already spending it. Who is going to suddenly shift tens of thousands, or hundreds of thousands, of dollars to a Delta card that they were already spending elsewhere? It's not really more rewarding for them, especially because I imagine the...

    "I suspect that Delta will see a significant increase in those spending hundreds of thousands per year on credit cards,"

    I disagree on this, but only because I think anyone who HAS this capital is already spending it. Who is going to suddenly shift tens of thousands, or hundreds of thousands, of dollars to a Delta card that they were already spending elsewhere? It's not really more rewarding for them, especially because I imagine the people WITH these funds are regularly buying first anyway.

    1. Ben Schlappig OMAAT

      @ Jonathan -- It's possible that I'm wrong, but up until now you've been able to earn at most 60K MQMs from any one credit card, so unless you were willing to get multiple cards (which most people aren't willing to do), you couldn't actually get a higher tier status primarily through credit card spending. I do think some people might not have considered this kind of spend in the past due to the hoops...

      @ Jonathan -- It's possible that I'm wrong, but up until now you've been able to earn at most 60K MQMs from any one credit card, so unless you were willing to get multiple cards (which most people aren't willing to do), you couldn't actually get a higher tier status primarily through credit card spending. I do think some people might not have considered this kind of spend in the past due to the hoops you had to jump through, while with the new program, it's really straightforward. "Oh, I can just use this card for everything and earn Delta Diamond? Done!"

      Like I said, we'll see how things go... :-)

    2. No Longer Delta Loyal Guest

      With the Delta Reserve and Delta Platinum and $250k of spend you hit the waiver and earned 80,000 MQMs. With year-to-year carryover and a few flights, you were Diamond. Now you would need $350k of spend. However, even as a Diamond upgrades have become less common; GUC only upgrade to Premium Economy; you can't bring guests into the SC as a Choice Benefit; etc.

  92. digital_notmad Diamond

    100% agree. Good analysis.

  93. BenjaminGuttery Diamond

    Tim Dunn is a False Prophet. #Deltaggeddon

  94. FNT Delta Diamond Guest

    All the travel bloggers should stop promoting and linking to Delta credit cards. That may actually have a meaningful impact.

    1. Ben Schlappig OMAAT

      @ FNT Delta Diamond -- I see where you're coming from.

      First of all, I didn't post about the recent Delta limited time offers because the timing felt off, given these changes.

      But let me actually just counter your point, because I'm not sure I agree with your conclusion. I don't think the goal should ever be to punish an airline, but rather consumers should decide based on their own situation what's best for...

      @ FNT Delta Diamond -- I see where you're coming from.

      First of all, I didn't post about the recent Delta limited time offers because the timing felt off, given these changes.

      But let me actually just counter your point, because I'm not sure I agree with your conclusion. I don't think the goal should ever be to punish an airline, but rather consumers should decide based on their own situation what's best for them.

      Just because you shouldn't get a card and spend $700K on it doesn't mean you shouldn't get it at all. Maybe someone decides that rather than going for Delta status, they should instead get a card that offers elite-like perks. And people should also at least consider some of the great welcome offers available, with a realistic understanding of what they can do with those miles.

    2. DWT Guest

      I’ve definitely been feeling mixed because I just got the DL Amex Platinum Business over the summer- intent was to do a status match this fall, get DL status for 2024, and then make DL my secondary airline and maybe qualify for Silver every year. Clearly, that’s not going to happen anymore. But I did get 90k as a sign up bonus, which after the $250 AF and taking into account the Amex 15% off, value the SUB around $900 so that’s not bad

    3. KP Guest

      Agree with Ben. I'd happily sign up a Delta card for an elevated welcome bonus any day along with the ability to get 15% off award redemptions, but not going to spend anything on the card once that spend is met. Rinse and repeat.

    4. FNT Delta Diamond Guest

      Most of the blogs make their money on credit card signup referrals. I don't think you can ethically write that spending a couple hundred thousand dollars on a Delta credit card or being loyal to Delta is worth it and then days or weeks later promote Delta credit cards.

      At the very minimum, every article highlighting a Delta credit card promotion with a referral link that makes you money should have a prominent disclaimer that...

      Most of the blogs make their money on credit card signup referrals. I don't think you can ethically write that spending a couple hundred thousand dollars on a Delta credit card or being loyal to Delta is worth it and then days or weeks later promote Delta credit cards.

      At the very minimum, every article highlighting a Delta credit card promotion with a referral link that makes you money should have a prominent disclaimer that Delta loyalty and Delta credit card spend isn't worth it.

      You can't assume that a reader a few weeks or months down the line will have the institutional knowledge to make an informed decision.

    5. Ivan X Gold

      @FNT Delta Diamond, I get your bitterness at this moment, but I don’t think it’s the blog’s job to make complicated consumer decisions for people, or even to write entirely without bias.

      For what are effectively promotional posts, Ben is pretty fair and will state pros and cons, as well as plainly state what a card offers. Sure, he can be hyperbolic about the value of a SUB, but they’re never bad deals for a...

      @FNT Delta Diamond, I get your bitterness at this moment, but I don’t think it’s the blog’s job to make complicated consumer decisions for people, or even to write entirely without bias.

      For what are effectively promotional posts, Ben is pretty fair and will state pros and cons, as well as plainly state what a card offers. Sure, he can be hyperbolic about the value of a SUB, but they’re never bad deals for a consumer on those grounds alone. And you don’t know what he’ll say when he writes about future Delta card offers.

      But, not only that, the cards offer more than simply status and miles earning, each with its own combo of perks and benefits. So the idea of completely excluding articles about Delta cards because their loyalty program is no longer rewarding enough might even deprive someone of info they might want.

      Maybe I’m just projecting because I’m going through my own five stages of MileagePlus grief, but you sound as though you want Ben to punish Delta for what they’ve done; I don’t think that’s warranted.

    6. BenjaminGuttery Diamond

      FNT Delta Diamond: Your wrong. Chasing statues through spend and other methods, and getting benefits from a CC are completely different things. Ben has been very upfront about what he writes. Many times he openly corrects, admit fault, and puts his own foot in mouth so to speak. I get being upset with Delta/Amex. Believe me, I have a similar frustration with AA & CITI st the moment. But Ben and & his blog are...

      FNT Delta Diamond: Your wrong. Chasing statues through spend and other methods, and getting benefits from a CC are completely different things. Ben has been very upfront about what he writes. Many times he openly corrects, admit fault, and puts his own foot in mouth so to speak. I get being upset with Delta/Amex. Believe me, I have a similar frustration with AA & CITI st the moment. But Ben and & his blog are hardly at fault and his sign-ups for them is not even a drop in the bucket. More like a drop in an Olympic size pool.

    7. PM1 Gold

      Agree with you Ben. I don't think we should conflate Delta's status announcement (which is going to stop me from chasing Delta status in 2024) and the value of their credit cards, especially the signup bonuses.

    8. Greg Guest

      Props for not posting the new Delta offer promos. Also sends a message to them.

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9volt Diamond

The new program essentially eliminates the middle class from reaching Platinum or Diamond status (the two statuses which would mean the most to them). If you have the ability to attain $35k MQD (closer to $45k in actual dollars), then you're most likely buying domestic F or international J. There's no way you're reaching $35k MQD flying main cabin. Which then posits the question, why would someone in that scenario even need status? They're already flying up front, they're getting priority boarding, free checked bags, and lounge access on international fares. It just doesn't compute.

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Never In Doubt Guest

Given that Tim Dunn’s job is effectively going to every aviation /points /miles blog to tell people how great Delta is, it must have been a brutal week for him. Please keep him in your thoughts and prayers.

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digital_notmad Diamond

Friend, when Delta blows it, you'll be back here waxing poetic about how "at least Delta had the gusto to try something new, they're always #innovating and will adjust to this, just watch!" etc. etc. Delta cannot fail, it can only be failed by its lowly (ex) customers!

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