I don’t think there’s anything terribly surprising here, but this is the first time I recall an airline executive explicitly making a statement like this. It also raises the question of whether we should expect a similar policy industry-wide.
In this post:
Qantas will require vaccine for international travel
In an interview with Australian TV show “A Current Affair,” Qantas CEO Alan Joyce made some interesting comments. Specifically, Joyce said that Qantas will require that passengers show proof of having received a coronavirus vaccine to travel internationally with the airline.
Here’s what he said:
“We are looking at changing our terms & conditions to say for international travelers that we will ask people to have a vaccination before they can get on the aircraft. Whether you need that domestically, we’ll have to see what happens with COVID-19 and the market, but certainly for international visitors coming out and people leaving the country, we think that’s a necessity.”
I was expecting this policy from Qantas
Australia has been one of the most aggressive countries in the world when it comes to restricting international travel. The country has closed its borders to foreigners, and those who are eligible to enter the country have to quarantine for 14 days (and we’re not talking about self-quarantine).
Given the country’s strict guidelines, Qantas has basically had no option but to shut down its international network completely. The airline has parked all of its A380s for the next several years, and has parked its 787s for at least the next year.
Qantas’ A380s won’t fly for several years
Executives at the airline figure that it’s not even worth trying to operate international flights until there’s a vaccine. While we knew the airline planned on waiting for a vaccine before restarting most international flights, up until now it wasn’t explicitly stated that the airline would require a vaccine for travel.
In other words, could a vaccine have been part of a larger strategy, where passengers could be vaccinated, get tested extensively, or quarantine? It appears a vaccine will be the only option for international travel on Qantas.
So yeah, I don’t find this to be terribly surprising, when you consider the conservative approach that Australia has taken. This also matches up with a plan presented by the government a few weeks back, which would require visitors from overseas to be vaccinated prior to travel.
Qantas will require all international travelers to be vaccinated
Will other airlines have similar requirements?
For a long time we talked about how in order for travel to recover, testing needs to become more readily available and affordable. While some countries have done well with this when it comes to travel (look at Germany, for example, which offers free testing to arriving passengers), others haven’t (like the US, which has no testing requirement at all, and the UK, which has a mandatory 14-day quarantine, with no testing option to skip it).
With a vaccine potentially right around the corner, it seems like at this point our best bet is to think that a vaccine will be the solution to making travel more accessible.
Of course there’s still a lot of uncertainty here, and this creates its own set of challenges, including the logistics of proving that you’ve been vaccinated:
- When will the vaccine be readily available in different parts of the world?
- Which specific vaccines will different airlines and countries allow?
- Since vaccines aren’t 100% effective, will some countries require a coronavirus test in addition to proof of vaccination?
- What will be considered acceptable proof of having been vaccinated, since most documents can be forged? Will this somehow have to be embedded into a passport, and if so, does this require passports to be reissued?
- Would a policy like this worth for Gulf carriers, which largely serve countries where a vaccine may not be readily available in the coming months or even years?
My guess is that for the countries that have erred on the side of caution during the pandemic, a vaccine will absolutely be needed for travel. Whether that will be a condition of flying with a particular airline, or a condition of entering a particular country, remains to be seen.
Will other airlines require passengers to be vaccinated?
Bottom line
While a vaccine could start to be available in the next few weeks, Qantas has no plans to start international flights until a vaccine is available on a widespread basis. The airline will also require proof of vaccination in order to travel internationally. Only time will tell if this is a policy we’ll see across the industry, or if Qantas will be in the minority.
One thing is for sure — specific airline requirements aside, being vaccinated will make international travel much easier.
How do you think we’ll see requirements for travel play out in light of a potential vaccine?
For God sake, if you want to travel & the requirement is to get a vaccination before you are allowed to board an airline or a cruse ship, follow the requirements or stay at home.
The requirements have nothing to do with human rights but the airlines duty of care to it’s staff & passengers.
Go into a Covid ward in any hospital & see what happens to (some people) who decide it is within their rights to not be vaccinated.
robbo, you mean like the US government banned anyone HIV positive from entering the USA for years?
Well, I won’t be travelling anywhere then. And many more like me. The companies not allowing people travelling without a vaccine can go bust .
Such a gross violation of the human rights . Disgusting
I know many that will flat out refuse this, and avoid travel to Australia.
I do understand that airlines are desperately trying to fill the void of solution-oriented travel policies instead of restrictions, and trying to make passengers feel more comfortable at the same time. However, this is a matter of public health and should therefore be decided at national government level. Vaccination could be made mandatory in general, mandatory in order to enter a country or even mandatory in certain situations or occupations. But every private business making...
I do understand that airlines are desperately trying to fill the void of solution-oriented travel policies instead of restrictions, and trying to make passengers feel more comfortable at the same time. However, this is a matter of public health and should therefore be decided at national government level. Vaccination could be made mandatory in general, mandatory in order to enter a country or even mandatory in certain situations or occupations. But every private business making their own rules? No way.
@JoMomma - It may surprise you to know that Qantas isn't the only airline that flies to Australia. This means that if Qantas does apply this restriction, you and all your germs can fly another airline.
@Tom - I believe any business can apply restrictions to customers without it being illegal. Airlines in the US won't let you bring a gun into the cabin of a plane even though they are legal to carry. For...
@JoMomma - It may surprise you to know that Qantas isn't the only airline that flies to Australia. This means that if Qantas does apply this restriction, you and all your germs can fly another airline.
@Tom - I believe any business can apply restrictions to customers without it being illegal. Airlines in the US won't let you bring a gun into the cabin of a plane even though they are legal to carry. For me it seems the same. Of course, I could be very wrong as I am not a solicitor... legal opinion from someone qualified please?
@Jan G: "asymptotic" is a mathematical term: https://www.thefreedictionary.com/asymptotic
I believe the word you were looking for was "asymptomatic." Cheers.
Aren't a lot of you vaccine Stalinistas that want vaccinate the world the same people who were anti-vaccine a few weeks ago when Biden was saying he wouldn't trust it? And Mikeh, yes the world has gone insane. You can tell what most people's opinions will be by just turning on the mainstream news. Whatever they are saying will be what the majority of people will then be thinking.
@MDA: At least here in Europe have only purchased limited quantities of each vaccine. If several/all different vaccines become available, there might be enough for larger parts of the population. But certainly the first ones becoming available will not allow vaccinating wider groups.
So if I have my official government-issued Vacci-port document, and my government-issued Passport document, and my government-issued Visa document, and my government-issued Global-Entry document, and my government-issued Fast-Trak document, does that mean I will be able to travel again?.........
The vaccine has been rushed to market and there is no way they've gone through the usual safety protocols. Now certainly an argument can be made of why that was necessary. But I have no doubt that side effects are going to be discovered and/or the vaccine won't be effective with certain people. Possibly over time as they make adjustments to the vaccine those things are going to go away.
I know there is no...
The vaccine has been rushed to market and there is no way they've gone through the usual safety protocols. Now certainly an argument can be made of why that was necessary. But I have no doubt that side effects are going to be discovered and/or the vaccine won't be effective with certain people. Possibly over time as they make adjustments to the vaccine those things are going to go away.
I know there is no way in hell I'm allowing that crap to be shot in my arm. I won't fly on QF or go to Australia. I'd like to think the US (and possibly Europe) there'd be too much opposition to a force vaccine, specifically for a vaccine rushed to market without time to adequately vet, but given how our citizens have become dumb sheep I wouldn't count on it.
I understand the concerns with regard to a vaccine which has circumvented the usual lengthy trials mandated by governmental health authorities but as someone who has lived through the Melbournian lockdown and celebrated the resulting 25 double doughnut days, I applaud the stance taken by QF. Alan Joyce did comment that other international airlines have indicated that a vaccine will be required for travel and that some form of digital passport would be the standard;...
I understand the concerns with regard to a vaccine which has circumvented the usual lengthy trials mandated by governmental health authorities but as someone who has lived through the Melbournian lockdown and celebrated the resulting 25 double doughnut days, I applaud the stance taken by QF. Alan Joyce did comment that other international airlines have indicated that a vaccine will be required for travel and that some form of digital passport would be the standard; and I would be surprised if sophisticated international travellers baulked at these conditions.
Next you know QF will be asking Homosexuals to show they are not infected with Aids
@Andy where did you read only people over 65 will get the vaccine. Australia is planning on vaccinating everyone who wants it PLUS Australia has purchased enough to vaccinate our Pacific Island neighbours who would struggle to pay for it or co-ordinate it. Obviously it will take time.
BTW - I'll say it again - Alan Joyce will most likely do what The Australian government requires them to do. He is not going to randomly...
@Andy where did you read only people over 65 will get the vaccine. Australia is planning on vaccinating everyone who wants it PLUS Australia has purchased enough to vaccinate our Pacific Island neighbours who would struggle to pay for it or co-ordinate it. Obviously it will take time.
BTW - I'll say it again - Alan Joyce will most likely do what The Australian government requires them to do. He is not going to randomly decided people must be vaccinated. All that aside I work for a US MNC based out of Melbourne. I am not in the office at the moment but when we do return to work you are required to wear a mask. This is a global directive and has been since sometime in Q2. The company provides you with masks.
Lastly someone mentioned the number of new cases in Australia - that number includes returned travellers in hotel quarantine. There was only 1 local case in SA which is part of a contained outbreak.
I'm old enough to have had (and still have) my yellow vaccination booklet with multiple endorsements for smallpox, cholera and typhoid vaccinations, one for yellow fever and a whole lot for others including hep a and b and tetanus. In many of my travels I had to have those vaccinations, and they had various levels of currency required, three or ten years or whatever. I guess I'll be digging it out of my filing cabinet....
I'm old enough to have had (and still have) my yellow vaccination booklet with multiple endorsements for smallpox, cholera and typhoid vaccinations, one for yellow fever and a whole lot for others including hep a and b and tetanus. In many of my travels I had to have those vaccinations, and they had various levels of currency required, three or ten years or whatever. I guess I'll be digging it out of my filing cabinet. This is nothing new, and shouldn't be hard to manage. Can certificates be forged? No doubt they can, but like vaccinations themselves, the number that are will be small, and like vaccinations a 95-99% real compliance rate will serve the intended purpose. To the 'but my rights' crew, private companies can impose conditions on using their services, and governments can impose conditions on crossing their borders, even for their own citizens, and as others have said, what Alan Joyce says may not matter because national governments may impose this requirement anyway. Already had covid? As far as I know there were no exemptions for smallpox, cholera or typhoid when those vaccinations were required, so I don't see exemptions for CoviD-19 being countenanced.
A word of caution, Alan Joyce musing on what the Qantas policy might be is the first time anyone in the industry or in a government has had anything to say about mandating vaccination for any reason. This has a long way to go before anyone actually implements such a requirement.
Given the fact that most governments around the world have decided that only people over 65 plus health care worker will get the vaccine, this will limit the potential market of Qantas dramatically.
Alan Joyce's opinion is likely irrelevant in any case. The Australian government, along with the governments of many, if not all, of QF's international destinations (esp. NZ, Singapore, HK) are extremely likely to mandate passengers to show proof of vaccination before they're allowed on board. That would apply for all airlines entering the country, not just QF.
The real issue is how this will be implemented. What proof will be needed and how to...
Alan Joyce's opinion is likely irrelevant in any case. The Australian government, along with the governments of many, if not all, of QF's international destinations (esp. NZ, Singapore, HK) are extremely likely to mandate passengers to show proof of vaccination before they're allowed on board. That would apply for all airlines entering the country, not just QF.
The real issue is how this will be implemented. What proof will be needed and how to prevent forgeries. Hopefully a global standard can be reached to simplify the process for travellers, maybe managed by the WHO and/or IATA.
So if I am forced to take a vaccine to be able to fly for work again, will the liability fall with my employer or with the airline if I develop some nasty side-effects?
Since when does the CEO of an airline that has a non-existent international network dictate global travel patterns?
I will prefer to listen to the advice of health experts or at the very least the CEO of a company that actually has international operations of some sort of scale.
Alan was also speaking on ACA, which is gutter journalism in Australia.
Seriously some of these comments are laughable. If you don't want to vaccinate, that's your choice, but don't expect other countries to let you in if a vaccination is something they will require. And no that's not a human rights violation. What are new daily cases up to in the US? Nearly 200k? In Australia, they had 15 new cases in the last 24 hours.
It's early days yet, but Qantas probably won't implement this...
Seriously some of these comments are laughable. If you don't want to vaccinate, that's your choice, but don't expect other countries to let you in if a vaccination is something they will require. And no that's not a human rights violation. What are new daily cases up to in the US? Nearly 200k? In Australia, they had 15 new cases in the last 24 hours.
It's early days yet, but Qantas probably won't implement this without the government requiring it, so it won't be a Qantas thing, every airline that wants to fly to Australia will have to do the same.
Covid vaccine “skeptics”. You have a right to voice your concerns/be a dumbass. You do not have a right to international travel. Don’t like it? Charter your own private flight.
Do you really think Australia cares that infested American “objectors” can’t visit their country?
100% in for this, a hard requirement is probably the easiest way to actually implement.
Not everyone who doesn't want these fast-tracked shits mandatory is an “anti-vaxxer”. For a lot of thinks vaccinating makes sense, but for the masses this virus isn't dangerous. Personaly it took me about 3 days altogether to get through it - yet you would want me to get vaccinated, right? Hard pass. Even for the elderly/ill people I'd suggest waiting for the facelift ;)
There was a time you had a vaccination booklet (International Certificates of Vaccination) issued by the World Health Organisation (WHO) if you travelled internationally.
I'm guessing that the WHO and its agencies could revive this authority in the digital age to combat fraud and eliminate forgery attempts.
Of course the US would need to re-join the WHO, but President Biden has that on his to-do list already.
I'm just happy the anti-vaxxers won't be able to fly. :P
For this coronavirus vaccine, I saw this requirement coming a mile away! It does not matter what country your passport says, or what country you are flying to. It will be the norm moving forward. Whenever, you travel abroad, you are ultimately subject to the laws of the country where you physically are.
While you may be in limbo while in the airplane flying, I see Qantas having every right to demand this (particularly...
For this coronavirus vaccine, I saw this requirement coming a mile away! It does not matter what country your passport says, or what country you are flying to. It will be the norm moving forward. Whenever, you travel abroad, you are ultimately subject to the laws of the country where you physically are.
While you may be in limbo while in the airplane flying, I see Qantas having every right to demand this (particularly if Australia's government mandates it). They have to comply with the regulations set forth by the plane's destination. The same why you need a visa in your passport (yes, there are countries that have this requirement--even Americans), or some other travel authorization. Even Europe is ultimately rolling out another travel authorization that you need to have. These are regardless of what passport you have, when you travel. In the end, it does not matter whose plane it is, if there is a requirement at your destination, you have no choice.
I may not be an Australia, and I do not have have any plans for Australia soon. However, I see many other countries (and airlines) mandating this. I have a standing visa for Vietnam in my US Passport, and I have to comply with all of their rules (probably will need something similar). The same is true for India. I happen to travel to two different countries where a visa is required for Americans (my passport alone is not enough).
My questions or concerns regarding something like this are:
1) How current does the vaccination need to be
2) What kind of documents are needed to show this? WHO Yellow Card?
3) The US Passport does not have biometrics, so what is exactly required?
4) How to prevent forgeries? (something that Vietnam and India both grapple with)
5) What about people who were volunteers for the original experimental FDA Phase III Trial vaccine? What do they get? How would they document (unless they have to renew)?
Perhaps, because I have travelled a lot in the developing world, and am the son of medical doctors, I participated in the Moderna COVID-19 FDA Phase III Trial. I have family scattered all over the globe, and the USA.
I just want to be able to get on an airplane, and not have to worry about some stupid thing like this (even when flying from Arizona to see my parents in Illinois, or traveling with my wife from Arizona to Vietnam to see her parents). Right now this 14 days quarantine makes everything a NO-GO for me.
I see the vaccine, and related, as the least of all evils, as long as I can fly on a plane. I do not want some stupid "bug" like coronavirus keeping me from seeing family.
BTW, I also travel for business, and while teleconferencing does work 70-80% of the time, it is that 20-30% that can only be done by face-to-face discussions. Particularly in Asia (culture thing), and definitely when doing Process Audits for ISO and QA.
Yellow fever vaccinations are not required for the elderly as they present more harm than the possibility of getting the disease. Certain individuals are seriously allergic to some of the ingredients used in vaccine manufacture and people with certain immune dysfunction also cannot get vaccines for good medical reasons so there will have to be exemptions.
You would also expect that if the overwhelming majority of people are vaccinated that the need for other precautions...
Yellow fever vaccinations are not required for the elderly as they present more harm than the possibility of getting the disease. Certain individuals are seriously allergic to some of the ingredients used in vaccine manufacture and people with certain immune dysfunction also cannot get vaccines for good medical reasons so there will have to be exemptions.
You would also expect that if the overwhelming majority of people are vaccinated that the need for other precautions eg masks should not be needed.
Every pandemic in history has eventually ended but of course this does not mean that there won't be epidemic outbreaks periodically which is a different thing.
I am an endocrinologist, not an epidemiologist or infectious disease specialist but worry that a vaccine brought out this quickly may still prove to produce some serious untoward effects. Everyone is very confident but it took years before drugs like thalidomide, practolol, refecoxib and others were shown to be able to produce very serious side effects.
I really don't understand you anti-vaccine guys out there, in a frequent travel forum. Given the case numbers in every single country of the world, how do you think you would EVER travel again without being vaccinated?
I am sure all relevant countries will require proof for immigration, as will airlines, train lines, bus services, restaurants, bars, soccer games, rock concerts and so on.
So why don't you just stay home in your own lockdown,...
I really don't understand you anti-vaccine guys out there, in a frequent travel forum. Given the case numbers in every single country of the world, how do you think you would EVER travel again without being vaccinated?
I am sure all relevant countries will require proof for immigration, as will airlines, train lines, bus services, restaurants, bars, soccer games, rock concerts and so on.
So why don't you just stay home in your own lockdown, cook your own microwave food, while I can travel the world again and enjoy life as it used to be?
I would like to see electronic linkage of vaccination data to passport data. Australia requires ETA or you don't get on flight to Australia. For U.S. passport holders it would be nice to have linkage. Alternatively, vaccination providers could provide documents for submission for an ID card similar to Nexus or linkage to something like a Global Entry database.
I won’t get a vaccine that I don’t need. I got the virus, I was asymptotic, so I don’t need a vaccine, specially a vaccine that we don’t know a lot about it, we have to wait at least 1 year after people get vaccinated to see if they have any bad reactions. So I really hope Quantas go bankrupt! I see it coming , countries are going to ask for the freaking vaccine to let you in, also stadiums, arenas, concerts etc etc etc Human Rights Violation
Cedric, Cedric, Cedric,
What kind of work do you do? I'm going to guess that critical thinking isn't required in your line of work. Or if it is, you haven't had a promotion...ever. Let's take your short but forgettable post.
You are 100% for something that you can't even figure out how it will actually work. Smart. That's clear thinking.
Then you say if you don't want to get the vaccine then stay home....
Cedric, Cedric, Cedric,
What kind of work do you do? I'm going to guess that critical thinking isn't required in your line of work. Or if it is, you haven't had a promotion...ever. Let's take your short but forgettable post.
You are 100% for something that you can't even figure out how it will actually work. Smart. That's clear thinking.
Then you say if you don't want to get the vaccine then stay home. But when other people say if you don't want to get sick right now, stay your ass home, and let people like me travel without a mask and see what happens, you say No to us. Hypocritical, huh?
Pro Tip: Don't ever show this post to a future employer or they won't even have to do a pre-hiring cognition test before politely yet quickly rejecting your application.
Cruise lines should require this as well.
To repeat , he only says “consider”. All companies may consider. It’s a private company. With regards to fraud , no one can comment since they don’t know the documents required.
It’s hypothetical.
If all trump supporters and anti-vaxxers stay at home , the world will get a better place.
@David
Well...it's a coronavirus, is it not? 4 of those are associated with the common cold - those never go away despite flu shots. Yes, I am labeling a flu vaccine as a flu shot. They have been shown not to work in obese or elderly. Look it up. Is an mRNA vaccine different? Yes, diff technology. It's also UNPROVEN. Also unproven through a full FLU / WINTER season.
You have no idea of...
@David
Well...it's a coronavirus, is it not? 4 of those are associated with the common cold - those never go away despite flu shots. Yes, I am labeling a flu vaccine as a flu shot. They have been shown not to work in obese or elderly. Look it up. Is an mRNA vaccine different? Yes, diff technology. It's also UNPROVEN. Also unproven through a full FLU / WINTER season.
You have no idea of my background, but since you're already attacking me...that says something about you. And I provide a medical link and you shoot it down/minimize it based on what? Are u employed at a biotech firm? Holding lots of stock in some related company?
...well even the Biontech guy lowered expectations from the 90% in an interview later.
@Brad
As far as I know there have only been press releases and news stories. No actual detailed results published. You got em' - post it! And again...there is some trickery going on here...results measured before DEC-MAR. Which is when flu really goes up.
Cart before the horse here...
Here:
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/weeklyarchives2020-2021/images/ILI46_small.gif
Avg rise in week 46 - Mid-November. There's a reason Moderna/Pfizer (And now Oxford) were so eager to put out press releases /statements so early...
Maybe it will work forever. 1 or 2 shots, and done. I'll eat my words. ;-)
Hope springs eternal..... focus on immune system health....
Tom says "How much s this even legal?"
Simple. Like any organization they have the right to decide who does and who doesn't get onto their aircraft.
@quasimodo - have you read the results from the Covid tests? Your evidence isn't really helpful
Great! Make sure all science denying Trumptards get an extra large gauge needle right up their arses, or else no travel for you! Haha.
It will be Goverments who require it and yes it will be a new Biometric Passport. Domestic flights where the Virus is still prevelant then testing, masks will still be used etc.. The death of comprehension of the English language is a great tragedy most of the answers to the questions are in the article.
@quasimodo
Did you just call the COVID mRNA based vaccines a flu shot?
If you have no expertise in medicine please stop spreading fake news, and linking a .news domain doesn't make you any more credible.
@Greg
Probably further testing from an approved clinic to verify that you are, in fact, vaccinated. Also, your "random local village" is unlikely to be able to transport and store these vaccines, which require -20 or -70 degree Celsius storage temperatures. These vaccines are likely to be administered through large, centralized vaccination points. If you can't get to them, then I don't see how you can get to an airport to travel internationally.
A flu "vaccine" DOES NOT equal MMR, Yellow Fever, Typhoid vaccines...those are pretty much guaranteed to give you multi-year, if not decades immunity.
A flu shot...not even 1 year. A flu VACCINE is not a typical VACCINE. They don't work well in elderly or obese.
Look up CDC Flu Vaccine Effectivity. It's been going down. Here:
https://i.redd.it/7pt8b3u9to061.png
Mutations...
https://www.thailandmedical.news/news/experts-warn-that-once-vaccines-and-antibodies-are-used-frequently-in-a-population,-more-antibody-resistant-sars-cov-2-virus-strains-would-emerge
This whole mandatory aspect of a FLU SHOT needs to go away - travel or anything...
A flu "vaccine" DOES NOT equal MMR, Yellow Fever, Typhoid vaccines...those are pretty much guaranteed to give you multi-year, if not decades immunity.
A flu shot...not even 1 year. A flu VACCINE is not a typical VACCINE. They don't work well in elderly or obese.
Look up CDC Flu Vaccine Effectivity. It's been going down. Here:
https://i.redd.it/7pt8b3u9to061.png
Mutations...
https://www.thailandmedical.news/news/experts-warn-that-once-vaccines-and-antibodies-are-used-frequently-in-a-population,-more-antibody-resistant-sars-cov-2-virus-strains-would-emerge
This whole mandatory aspect of a FLU SHOT needs to go away - travel or anything else.
@JBR
Well, my opposition to the vaccine is based on safety given the rapid development and basically no long term human trials. But I could always postpone my trip to Australia and astrophotography in the outback. A shame too, I hear the renovated Observatory Hotel is Sydney is quite nice since I last visited.
David: I support your right you to be free to get vaccinated against a virus with over 99% survival rate - others do the same against the flu. On the other hand demanding your fear to be pleased by everone else is the closest thing to far-left and far-right ideas you claim to reject.
I wonder why Qantas is so sure that vaccines will be both safe and effective. All we know so far is that there is a correlation between having been vaccinated and a lower likelihood of contacting COVID in the first few months after vaccination, and that very few adverse effects have been reported in the first few months after vaccination. No long term studies are available, and all is based on rushed emergency trials. This...
I wonder why Qantas is so sure that vaccines will be both safe and effective. All we know so far is that there is a correlation between having been vaccinated and a lower likelihood of contacting COVID in the first few months after vaccination, and that very few adverse effects have been reported in the first few months after vaccination. No long term studies are available, and all is based on rushed emergency trials. This is a conspiracy theorist's nightmare come true.
As someone said above, this is no different to some countries mandating the yellow fever vaccine. Alan Joyce will end up following the rules the Australian government imposes. We are being told it is months away as it takes time to produce. Well done to ScoMo and co for also funding vaccinations for out pacific island friends.
If I'm a citizen of Kenya or Uzbekistan or Barbados, how exactly will Qantas be able to accept my "proof" from the random local village that I got the vaccine, which most likely I got by handing the local clinic doctor $50.
This idea is DOA as soon as they try to implement it globally due to obvious fraud concerns.
If Australia wants to require a vaccine to enter their country, they obviously have every right too. I Image most of the people in this thread who are complaining about this upcoming policy of requiring a vaccine before entry into Australia most likely wouldn't be visiting the country anyways, and are probably more likely to be buying a $300 Carnival ticket to cruise around the Gulf of Mexico for a few days and drink endless...
If Australia wants to require a vaccine to enter their country, they obviously have every right too. I Image most of the people in this thread who are complaining about this upcoming policy of requiring a vaccine before entry into Australia most likely wouldn't be visiting the country anyways, and are probably more likely to be buying a $300 Carnival ticket to cruise around the Gulf of Mexico for a few days and drink endless crappy Bud Lights when they can travel internationally again
Not to be pessimistic .... We can't even agree on measure systems (metric, imperial -UK? Chinees ? US?) and now they all will agree on the type and timing of vaccination?
I'm assuming this will be like yellow fever where you get the yellow card thing?
I find it absolutely hilarious that the anti-masking, COVID denying crowd was telling everyone to "stay home forever" if you're scared, but now they are forced to either get vaccinated or they likely can't enter a bunch of countries. Karma is sweet.
Also vaccines don't need to be 100% effective to stop a pandemic. They just need to reduce the Basic Reproduction Number to less than 1, and a 95% vaccine is more than capable...
I find it absolutely hilarious that the anti-masking, COVID denying crowd was telling everyone to "stay home forever" if you're scared, but now they are forced to either get vaccinated or they likely can't enter a bunch of countries. Karma is sweet.
Also vaccines don't need to be 100% effective to stop a pandemic. They just need to reduce the Basic Reproduction Number to less than 1, and a 95% vaccine is more than capable of doing that. That's what herd immunity means, and also why smallpox has been eradicated, despite the vaccine being 95% effective as well (and smallpox is even slightly more contagious than COVID 19).
I could see there being some sort of national registry as to who has gotten the vaccine. Then that could be cross referenced with your permission to you passport number/known traveler info so the airline knows at check in if you got the vaccine. A country like Australia that requires an eVisa could also be given that with the applicant's permission. What I kind of doubt is that anyone working on vaccine distribution has thought that far ahead.
The question becomes what to do with the millions who had CoVID-19. Why make them get a vaccine? That would be requiring completely unnecessary treatment/risk while delaying vaccines for those who need it (since they will be in short supply for at least a year).
I think this is a smarter option than pre-flight testing, which is cumbersome, difficult to carry out at levels of meaningful traffic, and not always entirely accurate. The problem with the QF policy is that it is premature and assumes the vaccines will work and will be broadly embraced. However, I would suspect the entire global industry will require COVID19 vaccinations assuming they prove to be safe, as a requirement for boarding a plane. If...
I think this is a smarter option than pre-flight testing, which is cumbersome, difficult to carry out at levels of meaningful traffic, and not always entirely accurate. The problem with the QF policy is that it is premature and assumes the vaccines will work and will be broadly embraced. However, I would suspect the entire global industry will require COVID19 vaccinations assuming they prove to be safe, as a requirement for boarding a plane. If we get to that point, and the anti-vaxxers remain steadfast in their refusal, then they can drive to Australia.
Well I guess no one's traveling to Australia for another 3-5 years at least. Why would anyone want to get vaccinated now when there's no telling about its side effects. Do you want to be the guinea pig? It takes years to learn and study the true effects of a vaccine.
@p, yes, most likely you will not be able to travel for a while. I assume that very medication that is preventing you from getting vaccinated , also makes you more susceptible to infections. Once the virus is under control, rules will likely change
Here is the WHO Certificate format:
https://www.who.int/ihr/ports_airports/icvp/en/
No thanks, while I am not anti-vax, I don't trust the vaccine coming out so soon and not having side effects.
In the 1960's and 70's it was quite common to prove to the airline you had vaccinations for international travel. WHO provided a yellow passport insert for that purpose. I think they still exist.
I think this should be up to individual governments. And in most of the world it will be - airlines are not going to lose business over this, when for example in Europe we're talking about maybe 50-70% of population that wants to get vaccinated.
I also wonder how will they deal with people who have the natural imunity. I had Covid recently, I'm extremely unlikely to get the virus again in next few months...
I think this should be up to individual governments. And in most of the world it will be - airlines are not going to lose business over this, when for example in Europe we're talking about maybe 50-70% of population that wants to get vaccinated.
I also wonder how will they deal with people who have the natural imunity. I had Covid recently, I'm extremely unlikely to get the virus again in next few months (it's not impossible, but the level of protection should be much better than with the vaccine). Will the society motivate me to get vaccinated ASAP, using a dose that would otherwise go to to someone who actually needs the protection?
100% for this. If you don't want the vaccine. Stay home. Thought I'm not sure how you prove that you had the vacine... when I get a flu shot they just give me a very easily forgeable document...
Makes perfect sense. I expect many countries will require vaccination to enter and there will be some sort of a government issued certificate confirming one's vaccination. The UK is already talking about a "COVID passport".
While it doesn't surprise me, given that current timelines here for the USA indicate "mass" vaccinations won't be ready/done until early (Q1) of 2022, it would be a shame for the airlines to require this any time prior to Q1 2022, IMO.
It's the mark of the Beast. LOL
How is this even legal? I can’t think of any private company issuing its own healthcare regulation... All existing restrictions to travel (yellow fever, etc.) are and should remain government-based.
My hope for the USA is that the government will help create some sort of vaccine passport/document that certifies someone has been vaccinated. In turn, I hope large businesses in the USA and transportation companies will require that customers are vaccinated. Think companies like Walmart, Krogers, all the airlines, Amtrak, All sport teams etc. requiring that all customers/travelers/fans attending games etc. have to be vaccinated.
Certainly the US government can't compel anyone to get...
My hope for the USA is that the government will help create some sort of vaccine passport/document that certifies someone has been vaccinated. In turn, I hope large businesses in the USA and transportation companies will require that customers are vaccinated. Think companies like Walmart, Krogers, all the airlines, Amtrak, All sport teams etc. requiring that all customers/travelers/fans attending games etc. have to be vaccinated.
Certainly the US government can't compel anyone to get vaccinated so I hope that private businesses in the USA will do their part in incentivizing the public to get vaccinated as quickly as possible.
Although admittedly I think once the Vaccine is approved for use and non-trial patients start getting vaccinated and everyone can see that its pretty safe, most of the US population will want to get vaccinated.
Not too surprising, and good that they're doing this now.
Likely, we are going to see countries require proof of vaccination at immigration anyway (maybe we'll get similar cards like those used for yellow fever vaccines). It's in the best interest of heavily international airlines, like Qantas, to implement these requirements to not only limit transmissions on-board but also make sure passengers aren't stuck in limbo when they land and need proof of vaccination...
Not too surprising, and good that they're doing this now.
Likely, we are going to see countries require proof of vaccination at immigration anyway (maybe we'll get similar cards like those used for yellow fever vaccines). It's in the best interest of heavily international airlines, like Qantas, to implement these requirements to not only limit transmissions on-board but also make sure passengers aren't stuck in limbo when they land and need proof of vaccination when they arrive.
I'm sure once US airlines implement similar measures, I am sure we won't see pushback or complaints...lol jk
IF this is followed through...guess I won't be flying Qantas. Fiji? Are they going to demand a renewal shot every year? The lunacy.
Here's what happens...people get vaccine...for some...they do just fine - and they would have done fine w/o it. For others - immunity fades / mutations / ADE...they get sick/die. Everyone (for the most part) who is already susceptible or going to be...will eventually succumb.
All the vaccine results are coming at...
IF this is followed through...guess I won't be flying Qantas. Fiji? Are they going to demand a renewal shot every year? The lunacy.
Here's what happens...people get vaccine...for some...they do just fine - and they would have done fine w/o it. For others - immunity fades / mutations / ADE...they get sick/die. Everyone (for the most part) who is already susceptible or going to be...will eventually succumb.
All the vaccine results are coming at mid-Fall. BEFORE flu season really bites DEC-MARCH in Northern Hemisphere. Sleight of hand trick so to speak by vaccine makers/big pharma.
Nobody has realized this yet...they prob know. Which is why they have been so eager to announce before DEC-MAR. Or in Moderna/Pfizer's case - early Nov (w/ results from late Oct?)
Big market for phony vaccination certificates
He didn’t say they will , he said it’s under consideration
Presently I am sure management of most airlines are being asked the same question
Their response will only be “ we may consider it “
Furthermore if a government requires it , the airline can refuse boarding of you don’t have any proof
I have absolutely no problems with this policy. There are several countries where I have to prove I have been vaccinated for yellow fever, and this is no different.
Bohooo.
Beg for more Government Support. Sometimes I feel airlines just don’t want to operate and prefer just to get government aid. (this policy is neither realistic nor executable).
Will they specify which vaccines are “acceptable”?
Will there be a standard for authentication of vaccination documents?
Will the policy apply on codeshare flights?
Does this mean Qantas simply hibernates till a vaccine is widely used?
Very Smart. The ME3...
Bohooo.
Beg for more Government Support. Sometimes I feel airlines just don’t want to operate and prefer just to get government aid. (this policy is neither realistic nor executable).
Will they specify which vaccines are “acceptable”?
Will there be a standard for authentication of vaccination documents?
Will the policy apply on codeshare flights?
Does this mean Qantas simply hibernates till a vaccine is widely used?
Very Smart. The ME3 will take over the Australian market until Qantas wakes up and that’s okay. Just don’t complain about competition later on.