New KLM 777 Business Class: Good, But Not Amazing

New KLM 777 Business Class: Good, But Not Amazing

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Hello from Johannesburg! I just flew KLM’s new Boeing 777-300ER business class on the 10 hour daytime flight from Amsterdam to Johannesburg. While I’ll have a full trip report soon, in this installment I wanted to share my initial thoughts.

I was looking forward to this flight, given that KLM has been retrofitting its Boeing 777s with new business class seats featuring doors. I hadn’t flown a KLM 777 in quite some time, so I was curious what the experience was like. For what it’s worth, I redeemed Delta SkyMiles for this ticket, as the program had the best pricing (SkyMiles are still great for partner awards not touching the United States).

So, how was the KLM 777 business class experience? It was good(ish). It’s interesting to see how Air France-KLM is progressing. While Air France is moving upmarket, KLM seems to have more modest aspirations. Let me explain.

KLM’s 777 business class seats are good

KLM’s new Boeing 777 business class seats are produced by JAMCO, and they’re an updated version of the carrier’s Boeing 787-10 business class seats, with doors and some other improvements. These are reverse herringbone seats, in a 1-2-1 configuration.

KLM Boeing 777 business class cabin
KLM Boeing 777 business class cabin

This is a solid product, as the seats have storage compartments, plenty of charging (USB-A, USB-C, AC, and wireless), and high definition entertainment monitors. It’s a significant improvement over KLM’s previous business class seats.

KLM Boeing 777 business class seat
KLM Boeing 777 business class seat door
KLM Boeing 777 business class seat monitor

The entertainment selection was excellent, with hundreds of movies and TV shows. While there was Wi-Fi, it was nearly unusable. I’m not sure if that was an issue with the aircraft, or just that speeds are slower over much of Africa.

It’s kind of frustrating that the airline sells both “stream” and “surf” passes (with the former being more expensive). So I purchased the more expensive pass, but it probably took about a minute to load a single email.

KLM 777 Wi-Fi pricing

Looking at Air France-KLM, I must admit that I prefer Air France’s new Airbus A350-900 and Boeing 777-300ER cabins. Not only are they more elegant, but they have better tech (including bluetooth audio), and the bulkhead seats are also among the best in the world.

So I’d say these new seats are an incremental improvement over the carrier’s 787 reverse herringbone seats, though a significant improvement over the 2-2-2 configuration that was previously on KLM’s 777s.

KLM’s business class service was very good

A real highlight of this flight was the service. The ladies working business class were friendly and professional. A special shoutout to the senior purser, who was stellar. It was so nice to see how engaging and energetic she was with passengers from start to finish.

For example, there were two older Italian couples seated in the section across from me, and they were so happy with her service that one of the guys wanted to hug her at the end of the flight.

She had such a good sense of humor as well. The hugging Italian gentleman above called her when his entertainment system started showing everything in Arabic (clearly he pushed the wrong button). Of course she helped him, but she also said “what, you don’t speak Arabic? Then you have 10 hours to learn!”

I like how quirky of an airline KLM is

Another thing I enjoy about flying with KLM is how many little Dutch elements there are to the service. For example, it’s so cute how business class passengers are given little ceramic Dutch houses.

KLM Dutch houses

I love how there’s even wallpaper in the bathrooms with these houses, and a tulip.

KLM Boeing 777 business class lavatory

I also think it’s adorable how coffee is served with little stroopwafel cookies.

KLM business class coffee & stroopwafel

KLM’s business class food was tasty but a problem

Okay, so while the food on this flight tasted pretty good, the meal service was quite problematic. Remember how just last week, KLM announced how it was reducing food waste by using artificial intelligence? The idea is that the airline doesn’t load too much food, so that there’s no waste.

Well, I’ll tell you what that seems to look like in practice — they didn’t load enough meals for all business class passengers! The crew explained that the flight would have had to take a 90 minute delay in order to have meals catered correctly. I appreciate the crew working with what they have, since obviously this wasn’t their fault.

Let me just clarify that there was no aircraft swap here, and this was a flight departing the carrier’s only hub. You’d think they could cater a flight correctly, no? And if they suddenly had an unexpected number of business class passengers, you’d think they’d have a way to make sure that those who booked a week or more in advance would get a business class meal, no?

So the meal service was different than indicated on the menu, and my main course with the second service was actually a premium economy meal. It’s not exactly a good look to promote how you’re avoiding waste, and then you serve a business class passenger a premium economy meal.

What was the food actually like? I started off the first meal with the carrier’s signature cocktail, “The Very High Fashioned.” This hit the spot, and was served with the choice of nuts or cheese.

KLM business class drink & nuts

Due to there not being enough business class meals, my appetizer with the main meal was actually what was supposed to be the main course for the pre-arrival meal, which was a delicious kohoko salad with chili prawns, haricot verts, banana chips, and frisée lettuce. There was no side salad, but instead I was served the dessert that was supposed to come with the pre-landing meal, in addition to the standard dessert later on. Hmmm…

KLM business class appetizer

For my main course, I had the phenomenal “tasting of delicacies,” as it was described, consisting of chicken with sweet basil, chu-chee cod, mixed vegetables, and jasmine rice. What a tasty and beautifully presented dish.

KLM business class main course

Then there was a small dessert plate, though I’m not sure what exactly it was, since the menu didn’t describe it correctly.

KLM business class dessert

For the pre-landing meal, I basically got a nicely plated premium economy meal. The main course included smoked salmon, crab, and a potato salad. It was served in a sturdy plastic container. The dessert was also from premium economy, though was served in the business class dessert bowl. The only thing actually intended for the business class service was the side of a Thai red vegetable curry. To KLM’s credit, this was incredibly good for a premium economy dish, at least…

KLM business class pre-landing meal

I hope my experience was just an isolated incident. When KLM brags about how it’s not wasting any food and shares statistics on how food waste is being reduced, hopefully the airline also takes into consideration business class passengers eating meals designed for other cabins when this system goes wrong.

Aside from my specific issue, while KLM’s food quality is great, there’s something about the whole service that feels like they’re cutting corners. For example, the cutlery set for the entire meal has a single fork and knife, the airline doesn’t have espressos (only drip coffee), and for everything on the menu there’s an “or” (meaning you have to select dessert or cheese, etc.)

Bottom line

I’m happy I had the chance to fly KLM’s new 777 business class, as it’s a massive improvement over the carrier’s previous 777 business class, and also a nice incremental improvement over the carrier’s 787 business class.

The service on this flight was friendly, and I also like how there are some fun elements to the KLM passenger experience, like the Dutch houses.

While I feel like Air France is aspiring to be the best carrier in Europe, it seems like KLM is more trying to be a good, middle of the pack European airline. Ultimately that’s logical — the airline faces a lot of challenges with what’s going on at Schiphol, and Amsterdam also isn’t the most premium market in the world. KLM doesn’t have to offer the world’s best business class, and that’s totally fine.

Meal service and Wi-Fi snafus aside, KLM offers an all-around pleasant experience, with a nice lounge in Amsterdam, tasty food, and some classic Dutch touches. I wouldn’t hesitate to fly with KLM again, and I’d certainly prefer it over anything currently offered by Lufthansa or SWISS. However, I also wouldn’t necessarily seek out this product.

What’s your take on KLM’s 777 business class?

Conversations (58)
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  1. Neil Callahan Guest

    I flew both the update 777 business class and the old business class. I prefer the old business class, the newer made me feel locked in an you seat lower in the new one, to compact. Food on a plane is not interesting to me, so no comment. KLM service on the flight with the newer business class was actually poor, arrogant and not friendly at all. The flight with the older seats ,was perfect...

    I flew both the update 777 business class and the old business class. I prefer the old business class, the newer made me feel locked in an you seat lower in the new one, to compact. Food on a plane is not interesting to me, so no comment. KLM service on the flight with the newer business class was actually poor, arrogant and not friendly at all. The flight with the older seats ,was perfect , like it was many years ago. I just want a good seat, good entertainment, and most of all a top crew.

  2. Neil Callahan Guest

    I flew both the update 777 business class and the old business class. I prefer the old business class, the newer made me feel locked in an you seat lower in the new one, to compact. Food on a plane is not interesting to me, so no comment. KLM service on the flight with the newer business class was actually poor, arrogant and not friendly at all. The flight with the older seats ,was perfect...

    I flew both the update 777 business class and the old business class. I prefer the old business class, the newer made me feel locked in an you seat lower in the new one, to compact. Food on a plane is not interesting to me, so no comment. KLM service on the flight with the newer business class was actually poor, arrogant and not friendly at all. The flight with the older seats ,was perfect , like it was many years ago. I actually was surprised how friendly the team were, helpful, interested. I just want a good seat, good entertainment, and most of all a top crew.

  3. Anthony White Guest

    Food on KLM business class seems to be a small selection of tapas as main course and is usually very poor

  4. Andy Diamond

    I generally like KLM, but their „green food policy“ on steroids is just abysmal. Another example is that they abolished salad dressing on shorthaul flights to save some weight … oh boy, we are talking about 10 grams per business class pax!

    1. Ryan Guest

      They also had a month last year where they only swerved vegetarian food. Not what someone paying thousands of dollars for a business class ticket wants or expects…. And it wasn’t pasta but several weird “beyond-meat” type dishes.

  5. Flieger Guest

    If you grew up in Central Europe, this would be logical to you. The Dutch are protestants of a special sort, many of which are calvinists. They despise luxury beyond a certain point and you show off how you´re not too indulging into luxury. The French are Catholics and luxury is in their cultural DNA. I read your report and I commend your sharp observation, but this is culturally predestined.

  6. Ramon Ymalay Guest

    So Ben, it sounds like the bulkheads here are not like the AF bulkhead with the huge ottoman. My family and I are scheduled to be in a 777-300ER this summer from AMs-ORD and it says “World Business class” in the seat selection with 35 biz class seats. Will this be the new seat? I didn’t see in your review where you stayed number of seats. If the bulkhead is different I will take the bulkhead row. If not I will stick with row 2x

    1. Louis-Martin Guest

      35 seats in 1-2-1 is the new seat.
      34 seats in 2-2-2 is the old seat.

      I’m in the same situation, as long as there is no airplane swap.

  7. Jake Guest

    Take the 90 minutes delay. Absolutely unacceptable service.

  8. Julia Guest

    Would the impression and future review have been a bit better had there not been issues with the catering?

  9. Kevin Guest

    At least the adjusted the catering for the pre-arrival meal in general. We flew in January and got the hamburger, which is nice but not a full meal. I complaint about the lack of a proper second meal service on a 12h flight. We also landed at 22:30 so not a real time to go eat somewhere.

  10. Louis-Martin Guest

    Are the bulkhead seats (like 1A and 2k) in the new KLM 777 similar to the bulkhead seats in the new AF 777 (ottoman with lots of foot space) or are they the same as every other row?

  11. FrozenKiwi Guest

    @ben I recently flew this AMS-LAX on a retrofitted 777 and had issues with the Wi-Fi as well. I requested a refund as when it worked it was almost too slow to load emails and then it just stopped working at a few points. I was very quickly offered a refund. (Funny enough, with the fluctuation in currency exchange I made a few cents profit ). On the outbound I had a 781 and the...

    @ben I recently flew this AMS-LAX on a retrofitted 777 and had issues with the Wi-Fi as well. I requested a refund as when it worked it was almost too slow to load emails and then it just stopped working at a few points. I was very quickly offered a refund. (Funny enough, with the fluctuation in currency exchange I made a few cents profit ). On the outbound I had a 781 and the seat would magically start moving itself the entire flight unless it was fully up right. I would be sleeping and then it would start moving back to a recline or from eating to sleep. It was so bizarre and the FA couldn’t figure it out as nothing was being pressed.

    I agree about your description of AF vs KL. I really enjoy KL J and think they’re nice and fun and I really feel the personality of the airline, but I’m always feeling they’re slightly missing the mark in a lot of areas. I definitely feel like I’m getting a little more upscale / thoughtful product and service with AF.

  12. Pete Guest

    Nice lounge in Amsterdam? The KLM lounge is very poor for a major hub lounge, with very limited food and not enough space most of the time.

    1. Fonzi Guest

      You must talk about shengen one. The non shengen is quite large.

    2. Ryan Guest

      The non Schengen one is still packed all the time and it can be hard to find a seat in morning hours. Irrespective of crowds, the lounge is just so-so in my mind. The food has been the same boring selection for years. KLM clearly aiming for “average” and whatever is good enough rather than looking to surprise or delight passengers.

      Both lounges also have a major mice problem, FYI.

  13. Rupert Guest

    Seats and service sound ok.
    If Catering was really about avoiding food waste and not purely cost cutting, they'd cater sufficient business class meals, risk being short on premium/eco meals and use the extra business meals in premium eco, in case the algorithm was wrong...
    I'd say this is cost cutting, with a side of sustainability marketing...

  14. Frog Guest

    KLM (along with Schiphol) has really gone downhill since the pandemic. Average hard product in J and poor food / wine. At least they have improved the inflight entertainment. At one point they only had about 8-10 movies to choose from, which were all universally terrible. AF is a far better airline and is a pleasure to fly.

  15. NRglobal Guest

    KLM from Schipol to Dubai in the new business class 777 cabin. I found the seat rather hard and the sliding door does not add much privacy. The meal service took about 4 hours to complete which was painfully slow.

    Cabin crew were friendly and somewhat helpful but had all visibly been doing this job for a long time so were not as eager to please as less experienced crew members often are.

    No...

    KLM from Schipol to Dubai in the new business class 777 cabin. I found the seat rather hard and the sliding door does not add much privacy. The meal service took about 4 hours to complete which was painfully slow.

    Cabin crew were friendly and somewhat helpful but had all visibly been doing this job for a long time so were not as eager to please as less experienced crew members often are.

    No comparison between the chic Air France business class experience and dear old KLM, if ever you have the choice.

  16. Dave Guest

    It is worth noting that KLM may not have many planes with the new layout. We travelled from AMS to Cape Town in January. The flight down was on a new configuration 777 as scheduled, but they changed equipment a few days before our return flight, and we had a 787 with a 2-2-2 configuration in business. The interesting thing is when we asked a pair of flight attendants about what happened to the expected...

    It is worth noting that KLM may not have many planes with the new layout. We travelled from AMS to Cape Town in January. The flight down was on a new configuration 777 as scheduled, but they changed equipment a few days before our return flight, and we had a 787 with a 2-2-2 configuration in business. The interesting thing is when we asked a pair of flight attendants about what happened to the expected 1-2-1 layout, they both denied that KLM had any planes with a 1-2-1 layout. One of them later realized that I must be referring to the "new" cabin and said that there are very few of them. Apparently so, given that they thought I was making it up.

    Biggest takeaway from both flight experiences is the deliberately hot temperature in the cabin. Maybe this is well known, but as we hadn't flown KLM long-haul before, we were surprised and annoyed at how hot the cabin was. Made it very difficult to sleep, on flights where passengers are obviously expecting to sleep. (especially with a 0:30 am departure on the return leg.) When asked the flight attendants made clear that the 23 C/74 F temperature was deliberate, and saved them from any complaints about it being too cold! Sorry, but if you're going to keep it that hot, I'm flying someone else next time.

    1. Anonymous Guest

      KLM does not (and never has had) 787s flying with 2-2-2, you must have been switched to an old config 777. However, almost their entire 777-300ER fleet is now fitted with the new cabin, but their 777-200ER fleet refit has not started yet. There are no plans for their A330s to get the new cabins as of now...so yes, quite a few planes still fly in 2-2-2.

    2. NK3 Gold

      KLM does not have 787s with a 2-2-2 layout. If you were swapped to a 2-2-2 layout, you were either on a 777 with the old configuration, or an older A330. From the latest info I could find, 10 of 16 777-300ER planes have been modified, and 0 of 15 777-200s. There are still 11 A330s with 2-2-2 layout. With 23 787s total, that means 33 of KLMs planes have 1-2-1, and 32 have 2-2-2.

      ...

      KLM does not have 787s with a 2-2-2 layout. If you were swapped to a 2-2-2 layout, you were either on a 777 with the old configuration, or an older A330. From the latest info I could find, 10 of 16 777-300ER planes have been modified, and 0 of 15 777-200s. There are still 11 A330s with 2-2-2 layout. With 23 787s total, that means 33 of KLMs planes have 1-2-1, and 32 have 2-2-2.

      I too have had a plane swap from CPT-AMS (787 to old 777), it does not seem rare. And the planes are hot, I always bring a USB fan.

    3. David Guest

      Interesting, thanks. I'll admit I relied on what the flight attendant told me, and didn't actually check. It was really late, so maybe I misheard, or maybe they are even more unfamiliar with their fleet than I realized.

    4. InternationalTraveler Gold

      Maybe I am the minority here but I don’t like to freeze on airplanes. 23C sounds very comfortable. For those who are hot, you can always take off your sweater.

      I don’t miss air nozzles either - if the plane has them, my first action is to close them.

      I rather feel some airlines are keeping the cabin cold to save on heating costs.

    5. N1120A Guest

      Letting the airplane get hot is cheaper than cooling. Anyone who understands aircraft pressurization systems understands this.

      Also, hot planes suck. Wear a sweater if you are cold.

  17. Howard Guest

    Their mini shoe-sized salt and pepper holders are gone too! What a shame.

  18. Euro Gold

    KLM is the sort of airline that is not known for its outright luxuriousness or aspirational qualities but because of its convenience, efficiency, and practicality, especially when it comes to its network and connecting through AMS. There's a certain style and quirkiness to the airline that make me want to try them again, especially in either this product or their reverse herringbone products, having tried their non-all-aisle access products previously. I find their food hit-or-miss,...

    KLM is the sort of airline that is not known for its outright luxuriousness or aspirational qualities but because of its convenience, efficiency, and practicality, especially when it comes to its network and connecting through AMS. There's a certain style and quirkiness to the airline that make me want to try them again, especially in either this product or their reverse herringbone products, having tried their non-all-aisle access products previously. I find their food hit-or-miss, however, and also oftentimes not very aesthetically pleasing. And I had the same packaged cookie on KLM about 5 years ago on one of their short-haul economy flights, lol.

  19. dee Guest

    Not a fan of KLM...AF is overall a better product and experience.

  20. John Guest

    If you won’t seek out KLM then surely that doesn’t leave many European carriers that you would seek out in international business class? Do you think you could even fill a Top 10 list for European business class? I agree AF are trying to be more premium, I just won’t fly them because of their patchy safety record.

  21. claude depardieu Guest

    LOLZ @ all the comments suggesting a dumb reward ticket should get compensation from KLM.

  22. AmeriTurk Guest

    I go out of my way to fly KLM over Delta, simply because the crew is so much more pleasant than what you get with Delta. The hard product isn’t great compared to Delta or AirFrance, but the food always seems to be decent in business class and service is in another league compared to Delta. I flew KLM from ATL-AMS a couple weeks ago and the purser wrote a note thanking me for my...

    I go out of my way to fly KLM over Delta, simply because the crew is so much more pleasant than what you get with Delta. The hard product isn’t great compared to Delta or AirFrance, but the food always seems to be decent in business class and service is in another league compared to Delta. I flew KLM from ATL-AMS a couple weeks ago and the purser wrote a note thanking me for my loyalty, even though I’m a member of SkyMiles instead of Flying Blue, and even let me choose two Delft Blue houses! Very refreshing compared to the nasty attitudes I usually experience from Delta’s FA’s.

    1. jedipenguin Guest

      Delta needs to get rid of any FA that is over the age of 40. Let the youngsters take over.

    2. Antonio Guest

      Uh like in Logan's run scifi book. We can make biscuits with the oldies...

  23. D3Kingg Guest

    I can’t believe Ben is in Jozzy ! Joberg has been on my radar for a while. I want to fly LHR OR Tambo on BA a380. I still flew more miles than Ben this week. Iah lax hnd lax hnd Iah. I feel sick. Good night everyone.

  24. Andrew from Yucatan Guest

    Ben,

    Can you please show photos of the menus, bedding, the seat in bed configuration and the amenity kit.
    Thanks

  25. AdrienH Guest

    Well I started the year on New Year’s Day by being upgraded to business class on ARN-AMS as the flight was full/overnooked in economy.
    Now on Europe flights it doesn’t mean much as it’s just an empty middle seat on a 737 and a boxed meal except that … we got upgraded at the gate … no business class meal had been loaded so we got the packed economy cheese sandwich
    Obviously it...

    Well I started the year on New Year’s Day by being upgraded to business class on ARN-AMS as the flight was full/overnooked in economy.
    Now on Europe flights it doesn’t mean much as it’s just an empty middle seat on a 737 and a boxed meal except that … we got upgraded at the gate … no business class meal had been loaded so we got the packed economy cheese sandwich
    Obviously it was a free upgrade so could say “nothing to complain about” but it just adds on to their Dutch always cheap approach. Food waste is sad indeed but I think it’s just an excuse to save a few bucks.
    Now on a trip to Japan on a so called business class light fare … with a friend with no status … well he would not get lounge access if he wasn’t flying with me (Platinum who can bring a guest) while they let AMEX platinum holders in … go figure.
    As you write Lucky, KLM just aims at being average

    1. Ben Guest

      Light fares don't get lounge access, but Amex cards don't either (assuming you're talking about KL lounge).

  26. Syd Guest

    I only flew KLM on three occasions - each time long-haul and in business - but each time I got mixed feelings, although must've been my expectations issue. Netherlands are a fascinating country with amazing culture and history, and every time headed for boarding, I couldn't help but expect a JAL/ANA level of service/cultural detail. And each time I left feeling that I had an OK business class flight, and the blue houses are really...

    I only flew KLM on three occasions - each time long-haul and in business - but each time I got mixed feelings, although must've been my expectations issue. Netherlands are a fascinating country with amazing culture and history, and every time headed for boarding, I couldn't help but expect a JAL/ANA level of service/cultural detail. And each time I left feeling that I had an OK business class flight, and the blue houses are really cute, and nothing more.

    I flew old 2-2-2 seats, but they didn't bother me. What I found underwhelming was the food (just passable), service (good, but each time you can tell that it's trained, not sincere), and just overall lack of knowing I'm flying that uniquely blue plane that always stood out to me when I was a little kid looking out the airport windows.

    IMHO KLM could be and should be in JAL/ANA league, but its merely an AF shadow.

  27. JK Guest

    I'd be curious to know what meals the 12+ crew consumed on this flight in light of the catering issues. Did they opt for P/E meals as well in order to accomodate J class pax?

    1. Icarus Guest

      Crew meals are entirely separate.

  28. Ryan Guest

    The food and wine in WBC hasn’t been great these past few years. Despite the botched meal service and weird mix of dishes, what you received seems to be better than the norm. The wines are universally terrible on KLM and all seem to average less than $10 in the supermarket.

    Overall I like KLM and the quirks you call out, but the food and wine are very lacking. Ultimately I think this is a...

    The food and wine in WBC hasn’t been great these past few years. Despite the botched meal service and weird mix of dishes, what you received seems to be better than the norm. The wines are universally terrible on KLM and all seem to average less than $10 in the supermarket.

    Overall I like KLM and the quirks you call out, but the food and wine are very lacking. Ultimately I think this is a reflection of Dutch culture. Airlines like AF serve great food and wine with pride and as a reflection of their food and wine culture. KLM seems to only care about serving whatever is “good enough”, and that’s exactly how many Dutch people approach life in general.

    1. BradStPete Diamond

      My partner is Dutch and I would absolutely agree with your assesment. We have stopped flying KL for the most part in favor of DL. Its not "bad" but the quirks have become tiresome.

  29. Alexandre Guest

    Thank you very much for this detailed review.

    As a French wine connoisseur and great Champagne lover, I consider the KLM wine list as literally "disgusting". They typically serve almost the same Economy Class wines as Gulf/Asian Carriers do.

    I'm quite new in this blog yet and I definitely appreciate when you rate/underscore the wines or bubbles poured onboard. No need to be a specialist but I think relevantly shows how a carrier considers...

    Thank you very much for this detailed review.

    As a French wine connoisseur and great Champagne lover, I consider the KLM wine list as literally "disgusting". They typically serve almost the same Economy Class wines as Gulf/Asian Carriers do.

    I'm quite new in this blog yet and I definitely appreciate when you rate/underscore the wines or bubbles poured onboard. No need to be a specialist but I think relevantly shows how a carrier considers its Premium Pax.

    Regarding food, I wonder if KLM is a Dutch carrier or an Asian/Indonesian/Thai one ; as if typical tasty Dutch food were not existing or enough proudly highlighted.

    1. Jeffrey Guest

      Why do you feel the need to drag Asian carriers and Asian food into your criticism? Tell me which of the offerings are Indonesian? You really don't know what you're talking about... now THAT's disgusting!

    2. Ryan Guest

      KLM is always trumpeting the fact that their meals are created by Jonnie de Boer, who is a famous chef owning probably the most exclusive 3-star Michelin restaurant in the Netherlands. In my experience the meals always feel weird and cheap, and like a big thick soup of sauces that mix all the ingredients together…

      Regarding wine, Delta is serving chateneuf de pape these days and even United is serving whispering angel rose. KLM seems...

      KLM is always trumpeting the fact that their meals are created by Jonnie de Boer, who is a famous chef owning probably the most exclusive 3-star Michelin restaurant in the Netherlands. In my experience the meals always feel weird and cheap, and like a big thick soup of sauces that mix all the ingredients together…

      Regarding wine, Delta is serving chateneuf de pape these days and even United is serving whispering angel rose. KLM seems to be serving the latest Chilean reds from the Albert Hein bonus days.

  30. jetset Diamond

    Their algorithmic approach to meal catering sounds as if they were pitched a product by a consultant or other vendor and went along with it, without considering the implications and of course the vendor hasn't considered the real world issues of actually running an airline... At a minimum you have to set the tolerance that you under deliver food essentially to 0 but I'm guessing if you did that the cost savings would be minimal...

    Their algorithmic approach to meal catering sounds as if they were pitched a product by a consultant or other vendor and went along with it, without considering the implications and of course the vendor hasn't considered the real world issues of actually running an airline... At a minimum you have to set the tolerance that you under deliver food essentially to 0 but I'm guessing if you did that the cost savings would be minimal (or you have a bad model).

    On an unrelated note - why are airlines installing wireless charging? I realize it solves issues around cable standards changing but it's not a good solution for charging. The speeds are incredibly slow, your phone gets very hot, and with normal flight movement it's hard to keep the phone positioned properly. I used it on a United flight recently with their latest domestic First seats and I think I maybe gained 4% charge on a 2 hour flight...

    1. NK3 Gold

      I would definitely prefer the wireless charging. It is less of an issue with cables, but more with the outlet. I routinely encounter outlets on planes that are nonfunctional, or only functional if you have the charger at a very specific angle (and it will move and stop charging within 30 seconds). On my Delta flight on Tuesday, I had my phone plugged in the whole time, and somehow I lost charge during the flight...

  31. 02nz Guest

    Still looks light-years ahead of Lufthansa business class.

  32. NK3 Gold

    Ugh, I wish they had gone with modified versions of the Safran Cirrus seats that they have on the 787-9 rather than the JAMCO ones they started installing on the 787-10. I have definitely had issues with "ghost movements" on these seats, with the seat randomly moving. I think part of the problem is the angled silver ledge just behind the tray table. It is an area where many people will naturally rest their arm....

    Ugh, I wish they had gone with modified versions of the Safran Cirrus seats that they have on the 787-9 rather than the JAMCO ones they started installing on the 787-10. I have definitely had issues with "ghost movements" on these seats, with the seat randomly moving. I think part of the problem is the angled silver ledge just behind the tray table. It is an area where many people will naturally rest their arm. However, just below this is a single recline button. I have found that if you rest too firmly on the ledge (or push down on it), it will activate the seat recline, even if you do not push the button itself. Also, the silver ledge has some sort of sticker coating or weird paint that comes off easily, to reveal white plastic underneath. It is a product that does not age well.

  33. Ken Guest

    How the heck does AI predict less food waste? How about loading all business class meals and if there are passengers sleeping or declining to eat, those meals could go to PE elite passengers. Then repeat for the PE passengers who are passing on the meal service onward to Y passengers.

  34. Miguel Guest

    Like you said, the meal fiasco was not the crew's fault and it sounds like they did the best they could do. But this is definitely not acceptable on any level. If you got a PE meal, then what did those in PE receive, an economy meal? Did some economy passengers have to go hungry as a result? Really looking forward to hearing how KLM compensates you for this. If it were me and I...

    Like you said, the meal fiasco was not the crew's fault and it sounds like they did the best they could do. But this is definitely not acceptable on any level. If you got a PE meal, then what did those in PE receive, an economy meal? Did some economy passengers have to go hungry as a result? Really looking forward to hearing how KLM compensates you for this. If it were me and I had paid cash, then the bare minimum would be a cash refund of the fare difference between business and PE. And I would demand that KLM go well above and beyond the bare minimum.

    1. Rico Gold

      Miguel,

      The fare difference between PE and J is $2200 o/w. And you are going to "demand KLM go well above and beyond" that!??! Good luck with that.

    2. Chris Guest

      Here's what the Dutch response to that would be in English: "Sorry, that is not possible."

      Nor should it be. Compensation in the form of a fare difference between classes over a few missing meal elements? Come on.

      I'd be disappointed too, but demanding hundreds or even thousands of dollars would and should be met with the hilarious indifference demanding it would deserve, especially in the Netherlands.

  35. Mark Guest

    Maybe the AI is predicting that toilets might not work so reducing meals might be a good way to handle it.

  36. Andrew Guest

    Business passengers should be compensated for that. Part of what you are paying for long-haul service is superior meals as advertised.

    1. Icarus Guest

      The Dutch, unlike the French, aren’t known for their cuisine. This looks quite normal.

  37. Cy Guest

    Were you offered any compensation for the meal issue? It’s unacceptable to pay business class prices and get premium economy goods

  38. Mike Guest

    Just wondering... Should KLM be able to get away with it?
    If they sell a stream voucher that is not fit for purpose, at a minimum, they should reimburse you for it.
    If they were unable to provide the Business Class meal experience they paid for, at a minimum I think they should offer some compensation.
    I'm not suggesting taking this to court or anything silly, but I cannot imagine any other business getting away with this.

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Rupert Guest

Seats and service sound ok. If Catering was really about avoiding food waste and not purely cost cutting, they'd cater sufficient business class meals, risk being short on premium/eco meals and use the extra business meals in premium eco, in case the algorithm was wrong... I'd say this is cost cutting, with a side of sustainability marketing...

1
Chris Guest

Here's what the Dutch response to that would be in English: "Sorry, that is not possible." Nor should it be. Compensation in the form of a fare difference between classes over a few missing meal elements? Come on. I'd be disappointed too, but demanding hundreds or even thousands of dollars would and should be met with the hilarious indifference demanding it would deserve, especially in the Netherlands.

1
Jeffrey Guest

Why do you feel the need to drag Asian carriers and Asian food into your criticism? Tell me which of the offerings are Indonesian? You really don't know what you're talking about... now THAT's disgusting!

1
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