Air France-KLM sure is sharing lots of details about its premium cabin innovation this week. We’ve learned about Air France’s new business class with doors (coming this summer) and Air France’s new first class suite (coming in late 2023 or early 2024), and now we’ve learned the details of KLM’s new business class (this was first rumored a few weeks back, but we now have a picture of what to expect).
In this post:
KLM plans Boeing 777 cabin refreshes
The Boeing 777 is the backbone of KLM’s long haul fleet, as the carrier has 31 of these planes, including 15 Boeing 777-200ERs and 16 Boeing 777-300ERs. Given the long haul routes that this airplane operates, the 777s have a rather outdated premium product. KLM has Collins Aerospace Diamond seats, which are in a 2-2-2 configuration. While they’re fully flat, they’re about as tight as fully flat seats get.
The good news is that this should soon be changing. As of 2023, KLM will begin installing a new Boeing 777 business class product that features direct aisle access and privacy doors at each seat.
This coincides with KLM’s plans to introduce premium economy on both the Boeing 777 and Boeing 787, since KLM didn’t previously have this product (unlike Air France, and unlike transatlantic joint venture partner Delta).
For context, KLM’s 777s are an average of roughly 12 years old. These planes still have plenty of life left in them, so cabin refreshes seem appropriate.
KLM’s new Boeing 777 business class seats
In a presentation this week, KLM has revealed the first renderings of its planned refreshed 777 cabins.
It could appear that KLM’s new Boeing 777 business class product will be reverse herringbone seats with doors. The seats look almost identical to KLM’s Boeing 787-9 business class, which are Safran Cirrus seats, as you’ll find on many airlines.
This means that all 787s and 777s will feature reverse herringbone seats, with the main difference being that the 777 seats have doors.
It’s interesting how KLM even chose different business class seats between the 787-9 and 787-10. KLM’s 787-10s have the JAMCO Venture seat in business class. At first glance this might look almost identical to the 787-9 product, but there are some differences.
Bottom line
KLM plans to introduce a new Boeing 777 business class product, which will be installed as of 2023. These new seats will make KLM’s business class much more competitive on the 777 for years to come, which is needed given the long routes these planes operate. The new seats will be in a reverse herringbone configuration, featuring both direct aisle access and a door.
What do you make of KLM’s new Boeing 777 business class?
Great article, there’s only one mistake which is that the first picture in the article is a picture of the business class onboard the a330 instead of the 777.
Good god the pop up’s are annoying
KLM should retire noisy 777, with much quieter A350. Flown last year in business class with KLM on 777 and with Air France on A350, and the difference in terms of noise was very different. Direct aisle access is nowaday also a must in business class.
You must have a serious problem with doors… It’s a fixation… Maybe you should travel 3 round-the-world trips inside a Business seat with doors without the option to open them to end this… seek profissional help!
So Ben should ignore any Airline seat updates that include doors? Maybe train reviews are more your thing...
My post will most probably be removed as I recommend using an ad blocker and I'm surprised more posters don't also do the same. I know Ben relies on adverts to fund this great site, but if you can't read his comments because of numerous intrusive pop up adverts, what is the point?
Another problem is the banner/menu bar that stays on top instead of scrolling away like a proper webpage. I had to activate Sticky Ducky plugin to get rid of it
Third issue i have are the lazy loading images. It's pretty annoying to read an article if it takes couple of seconds to display each image. All images should be loaded with the page, or at least preloaded before coming to view.
The picture actually shows similar but much tighter seats found on the A330’s currently. The 777 seats are wider and actually I don’t mind them, on night flights I always select on of the middle 2 seats so as not to disturb / be disturbed when needing to visit the lavatory. They are long and well cushioned. The seats on the 787-10s are a bit better than on the 787-9, as the latter feel a bit tighter.
Doors! I love doors. No love for the pop-ups though.
so. many. pop-ups.
the video is the worst though
The pop-up lower banner is irritating...and so is the auto play video that I've never viewed -- it's a shame you bought into whatever the site designer was selling. Site is unwieldy and often unreadable.
Having to clear out so many pop ups on every article is getting infurriating.
Agree with lufty747 and many others post today about the popups. They are incredibly annoying!! I appreciate that these popups increase OMAAT revenue but there must be a better way to do this without negatively affecting the reader experience.
Agree with lufty747 and many others post today about the popups. They are incredibly annoying!! I appreciate that these popups increase OMAAT revenue but there must be a better way to do this without negatively affecting the reader experience.
Please remove the pop ups.. as other readers are saying, it significantly degrades the reading experience.
It helps with clicks from the non regular readers and sadly that is what drives business not loyal daily readers so i would imagine they are here to stay and will only get worse.
I'm certainly not an environmentalist but i have to say that doors on J are a complete waste of weight and fuel.
Are the doors really so important to you? Most people don't choose a flight for comfort, food, or the services.
Their 787 seats are by JAMCO, so if they’re going to buy from the same manufacturer, it’ll be the “Quest for Elegance” seats (mouthful, eh?) which bear much similarities with the Vantage XL.
Or they’ll just use the B/E Super Diamond seats. The KLM person said they’ll be wider than the seats on the 787.
They could get the Recaro CL6720 or a configuration of Adient Ascent if they’re going for density. In any case, it’ll be announced in May, so that’s exciting
This pop-up on the bottom is extremely annoying.
Use Brave browser instead of Chrome/Safari/... It automatically blocks 99% of unwanted stuff like adverts.
Soooo agree with the pop up. P l e a s e get rid of them. They are very annoying as I've said before.
True my fat finger always opens up the adverts
It's 2022 guys! If you still haven't heard about Brave browser with integrated adblocking or uBlock origin + uMatrix as add-on for Chrome, you are missing out big time!
They would need to revamp whole product - soft/hard and culture. Business food is really terrible, quality shockingly poor (cafeteriaesque), Asian choices to South America - go figure?? Overcrowded lounges and brutally unfriendly and direct staff can make it very uncomfortable and annoying to get any service and subpar food….Heineken foam on tap not a good enough selling point. I have avoided the 777 as best I can and “pack a lunch/dinner” for 787’s. I...
They would need to revamp whole product - soft/hard and culture. Business food is really terrible, quality shockingly poor (cafeteriaesque), Asian choices to South America - go figure?? Overcrowded lounges and brutally unfriendly and direct staff can make it very uncomfortable and annoying to get any service and subpar food….Heineken foam on tap not a good enough selling point. I have avoided the 777 as best I can and “pack a lunch/dinner” for 787’s. I suspect the cult following will be happy with news of new seats as many flights full through pandemic and the Dutch houses distributed at flight end as weirdly popular as ever (FYI enough gin for a single G n T perhaps, so nothing to write home about)
I actually like their 777 seats, the cushioning is much nicer than the reverse herringbone on their 787. I’ve even changed a 787 flight to fly on their 777 instead…
Anyways, booking and flying KLM fully knowing the seat to expect and receiving nice delft blue house always leave me a pretty happy camper
Meanwhile Lufthansa is still a year away from introducing a product that is already outdated and of which 5 year old renderings are all that exists.
Lufthansa's custom seat has a big advantage over all other seats that are off-the-shelve: It is tailored for regularly tall Europeans, and not for midget-Asians.
It will be the only Business Class seat that fits a person above 1.80m and above shoe size EU40 well.
And it has a good balance between privacy and openness: More privacy than open seats, more openness than claustrophobic prison cell seats with doors.
Racist much?
"midget-Asians"? Travellers like you would be yet another reason to avoid Lufthansa.
That's good. I had a choice between AF and KL for a trip to Europe in the Fall and was surprised that KLM had 2-2-2 business class. Made the choice we easy though.
Oddly enough, I still like the outdated 777 seats, and I like that they don't have PE on those planes. Makes check-in upgrades cheap ($550 from economy for a 13-hour flight? yes please)
I wish they would do something with the A330 biz seats.
The seats (& the planes) will reportedly be retired by 2025 (though that is dependent on getting the 787s they ordered, so that timeline could change).
However, since none of us get to choose what kind of seats that KLM puts in their planes. We all will have to use whatever lovely seat design that KLM chooses. We have no vote on this so why suggest what type that KLM seats are best?
Not true. A survey is sent out to a number of frequent travellers.
Doors have to be the most overrated gimic ever. You lose any sense of space premium cabins are supposed to give you in the first place.
Agreed. Unless the suite is enclosed floor to ceiling like the new Emirates F cabin or as large as Singapore's suites, I don't entirely see the point...just feels like a flying coffin.
The wonderful thing about doors is they open and close. No ones forcing you to fly with the door closed.
I get what you're saying, but, as someone who prefers not having doors, the issue is, that door takes up valuable space. Usually they end up having to shave a half inch off the seat, or something else in order to incorporate that door. Whether I leave it open or closed, it doesn't change the fact that the rest of the seat has been compromised to make way for a door within the same footprint....
I get what you're saying, but, as someone who prefers not having doors, the issue is, that door takes up valuable space. Usually they end up having to shave a half inch off the seat, or something else in order to incorporate that door. Whether I leave it open or closed, it doesn't change the fact that the rest of the seat has been compromised to make way for a door within the same footprint. That's my big beef with doors.
In contrast, I have no problem with AF's first class having curtains (not that I've flown them). Because adding curtains doesn't require shaving space from some other part of the seat.
I like CX's Business and First class seat. Even without a door, it still feels cozy and private. I also like AF's current First seat; I'd prefer a curtain to a door.
And they rip out valuable overhead bin space in order to make the confinement less obvious...go figure
thumbs up, Cedric,
exactly thinking the same. It seems that the only important point nowadays is SUITES WITH DOORS. No matter whether you are squeezed into small space. You cannot move and turn........but wow we have doors!!
I still like the current KLM 777 business configuration very much. Spacious while sleeping. The cabin gives you a very nice sense of space and of course perfect when travelling with a partner. But even with a...
thumbs up, Cedric,
exactly thinking the same. It seems that the only important point nowadays is SUITES WITH DOORS. No matter whether you are squeezed into small space. You cannot move and turn........but wow we have doors!!
I still like the current KLM 777 business configuration very much. Spacious while sleeping. The cabin gives you a very nice sense of space and of course perfect when travelling with a partner. But even with a stranger by your side, not a big problem. Direct aisle access, yes if you need to leave your seat every 15 minutes you should choose aisle seat. Otherwise it is really not a big deal to step over your neighbour once during the night.
Martin
These popups in the bottom of the article make it nearly impossible to read these anymore, on my iPhone the pop up blocks a significant portion of the text and when I try to close it it just opens the article. I would suggest removing them they’ve really degraded my experience on this website since you started using them
Thank you! I’m about to throw in the towel on this site after more than a decade because of pop ups.
I use an adblocker
Completely agree!
Use Brave browser both on iPhone and computer. It blocks out 99% of unwanted stuff.
Hey lufty try using the brave browser. It makes browsing much less obnoxious
Agree. Pop ups like these force users to use ad-blockers, or abandon the site.
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The picture that you have uploaded claiming to be KLM's 777 business class seat is actually the one they put on their A330s. The 777 business class seat looks slightly different- see the pics in your Singapore-Bali review.
I... if we're going for product consistency and high density (since KLM focuses more on transfer passengers), why not use the product that Air France put on their A350s. I think that product was chosen for the...
The picture that you have uploaded claiming to be KLM's 777 business class seat is actually the one they put on their A330s. The 777 business class seat looks slightly different- see the pics in your Singapore-Bali review.
I... if we're going for product consistency and high density (since KLM focuses more on transfer passengers), why not use the product that Air France put on their A350s. I think that product was chosen for the fact you could cram more seats onto the plane since they were going to be destined for Joon? I see this to be a bit more likely than some form of reverse herringbone product with door.
And u could fit those with doors too as advertised by the manufacturer