United is really going into crisis control mode today, following a very bad couple of days (and I guess a very bad couple of weeks, given the previous leggings incident). This morning Good Morning America ran an interview with United’s CEO, Oscar Munoz. There’s no denying his tone changed drastically, as he took responsibility for what happened, saying (after a long pause) that the passenger had no fault in what happened. I suspect United’s PR people were thrilled to hear him say that, while United’s lawyers probably weren’t.
As of the time of the interview, Oscar said that they hadn’t yet been able to get in touch with the passenger, and that the first thing they wanted to do was apologize. If I had to guess, I’d say that Dr. Dao’s lawyer will be getting in touch with United, rather than the other way around. 😉
United is now taking their apology to the next level, and extending it to the other passengers on the flight. USA Today is reporting that United will be refunding the fares of all passengers on United 3411 on Sunday, April 9, or as they explain it “compensation for the cost of their tickets.” In practice I’m not sure what that will look like, since most passengers were probably connecting from elsewhere. Hopefully it’s a full refund, rather than a partial refund for just that segment, which would seem like a very cheap way to handle this PR stunt.
I’m still not sure of what to make of United’s apology, and specifically, Oscar’s apology. Up until this incident he has been a very well liked guy, and for good reason. It’s not often you have an airline CEO who is loved by employees (given the “us” vs. “them” mentality in the airline industry), yet Oscar is the exception.
While I think he said most of the right things in the last interview, there’s still one thing I take issue with. He was asked why he didn’t initially communicate the “shame” he claims that he immediately felt when watching the video, as it took United two days to issue a real apology. He blamed the lack of a response on him wanting to first get all the facts surrounding the circumstances, which is why he used the term “re-accommodated,” etc., rather than issuing an apology. But is that really believable?
In that initial statement he called the passenger “disruptive and belligerent,” and said the facts are evolving around why the passenger defied the Chicago Police the way he did. So it’s one thing if his initial statement reflected the lack of facts in the case. However, the opposite was the case, as he drew lots of conclusions, even after the airline already had a good amount of time to investigate. So it’s hard to believe there’s any sincerity to this apology. JoJo’s song, “Too Little Too Late,” comes to mind.
I’ll be very curious to see how this all plays out, in particular with Dr. Dao. Though something tells me this matter will be settled with him privately out of court…
What do you guys think — is there anything United can do to fix this mess?
This has been a quickly-moving story with myriad updates. The full coverage of the United incident from the One Mile at a Time team is as follows:
- Crazy Video: Passenger Forcibly Dragged Off United Flight
- What United Really Screwed Up With Their Latest Viral Incident
- The Horrible Video I Hadn’t Seen Of The Guy Being Dragged Off A United Flight….
- Why United’s Incident Is A Much Bigger Deal Than You May Think
- Pathetic: United’s CEO Makes The Denied Boarding Fiasco Even Worse
- What Are Your Rights If You Get Bumped From A Flight?
- United’s Removal Of Passengers May Not Have Been Legal
- The Root Cause Of United’s Denied Boarding Fiasco
- Wow: Emirates Throw Major (But Fair) Shade At United In New Video
- FINALLY: United’s CEO Issues A Real Apology For What Happened
- I’m Sorry: My Initial Reaction To The United Situation Was Wrong
- Fascinating: Good Morning America Interviews United’s CEO
- United Is Refunding The Fares Of All Passengers On Flight 3411
Forgot to mention: I'm surprised United flight personnel didn't tell fliers to stop filming or even grab their phones and smash them.
Stunt is right. And I notice that United hasn't lowered their fares at all. With such publicity, they are going to have to do something to entice people to fly them again.
Eric Rasmussen- They could not "shoot him dead" because the Chicago Aviation Police are unarmed... In fact they can be arrested by the Chicago Police Department for even wearing a gun holster without a gun. The Aviation cops in this have a big problem... The pregnant woman with a 2.5 year old kid behind Mr. Dao. They should have temporarily asked her to go further back in the plane before the deplaned Mr. Dao. Also...
Eric Rasmussen- They could not "shoot him dead" because the Chicago Aviation Police are unarmed... In fact they can be arrested by the Chicago Police Department for even wearing a gun holster without a gun. The Aviation cops in this have a big problem... The pregnant woman with a 2.5 year old kid behind Mr. Dao. They should have temporarily asked her to go further back in the plane before the deplaned Mr. Dao. Also Mr. Dao's past will not be admissible in a Civil Court because he is not on trial... It may come up in deposition but that's tricky for United because if this gets into a deposition hearing they can ask any question... however this deposition would probably be heavily leaked and badgering Mr. Dao about his homosexual trysts will only enrage public opinion further against United. The police did not ask Mr. Dao his age or if had any medical conditions. They don't have to... but they should have... because once they knew he was a Senior they could have asked the crew to select a different passenger. True the Captain is in charge but they also have a responsibility to show restraint. Ultimately it doesn't matter who is right about this or that rule or regulation. United is in deep trouble because of the image of a man, face bleeding, being dragged like a garbage bag. And it's "Viral" from multiple angles. The airline didn't make their top offer of $1,350 plus hotel accommodations. That is a BIG PROBLEM for United. Those two things by themselves are a noose around United's proverbial neck. Munoz has admitted publicly this shouldn't have happened... Eric... It's over... United is in a death spiral and if they have a parachute it is very small and full of holes... My prediction... they will be bought out and absorbed by a competitor within five years.
After the press conference with Mr. Dao's attorney they are going to file. Here's the thing... if you get one of the best attorneys in the country you are going to file... That doesn't of course mean that this will see a courtroom and a jury. It probably will be settled out of court... but there is going to be a lawsuit filed in court... Although depositions are supposed to be confidential this one will...
After the press conference with Mr. Dao's attorney they are going to file. Here's the thing... if you get one of the best attorneys in the country you are going to file... That doesn't of course mean that this will see a courtroom and a jury. It probably will be settled out of court... but there is going to be a lawsuit filed in court... Although depositions are supposed to be confidential this one will be heavily leaked and that alone would be devastating to United. But it is clear that Mr. Dao's representation wants a full on discovery phase and he will get that. Will United recover from this... No... If this doesn't destroy them it will take them a decade or more to get past this... And it's because of the videos... images are powerful... This is the opposite of how J&J handled the tampering situation way back in the day... I worked as a contractor at McNeil Consumer Products when there were still people there who could remember the Helicopters landing from Corporate. That is still the Gold Standard in Crisis Management... YOUR FIRST WORDS ARE YOUR MOST IMPORTANT ONES AND THE ONLY ONES MOST PEOPLE WILL REMEMBER AND THEY SET THE TONE FOR YOUR RECOVERY OR LACK THEREOF.
Here is why untied doesn't like leggings; there's nothing to grab on to when you get dragged off of the aircraft
Take a look at my notes at http://rasmusen.org/papers/united.pdf . I may not have everything right, but I go much much deeper into the law and the economics than any other document I've seen. I welcome comments and corrections.
Prof. Eric Rasmusen, Indiana University
Below post goes more in depth, but here's quick summary.
1. There is multiple Dr. David Dao, so stop with the smear campaign unless you know this person. Wait for them to make a statement.
2. This was not a overbooked situation. Airline had no legal right to remove him.
3. This was not Chicago Cops, but airport cops. The one in question has history of misconduct.
4. Dr. Dao's injuries...
Below post goes more in depth, but here's quick summary.
1. There is multiple Dr. David Dao, so stop with the smear campaign unless you know this person. Wait for them to make a statement.
2. This was not a overbooked situation. Airline had no legal right to remove him.
3. This was not Chicago Cops, but airport cops. The one in question has history of misconduct.
4. Dr. Dao's injuries are very severe, and not trivial. There is no short amount to clear concussions, so there will be a huge lawsuit.
5. Race has everything to do with this problem. Picking 4 Asians out of full plane going to Kentucky.
http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2017/04/united-passenger-removal-reporting-management-fail.html
JoJo is the best thing about this post.
There have been quite a few comments regarding the practice of airline overbooking. It seems that in this case there was no overbooking in this incident. The pax that showed up were UA crew on official business who needed to get to Louisville. UA did not sell the same seat twice. I'm assuming the FAs were following UA procedure regarding compensation for being bumped which needs to be revised. More compensation could have been offered...
There have been quite a few comments regarding the practice of airline overbooking. It seems that in this case there was no overbooking in this incident. The pax that showed up were UA crew on official business who needed to get to Louisville. UA did not sell the same seat twice. I'm assuming the FAs were following UA procedure regarding compensation for being bumped which needs to be revised. More compensation could have been offered (it's an auction after all, and everyone has his price). Instead, it will cost UA millions instead of thousands.
I accidentally posted under my real name and would like to use a pseudonym and different email address. Please let me repost it and do not publish ti until I do.
A, every time I read an opinion such as yours I repost on every forum what I wrote, this situation has NOTHING to do with the passenger feeling entitled, and this was NOT a simple case of overbooking. He stood up for his rights which unfortunately the other three did NOT do which is why in the past, airlines feel that they can treat their passengers like dirt (wanted to use the four letter word...
A, every time I read an opinion such as yours I repost on every forum what I wrote, this situation has NOTHING to do with the passenger feeling entitled, and this was NOT a simple case of overbooking. He stood up for his rights which unfortunately the other three did NOT do which is why in the past, airlines feel that they can treat their passengers like dirt (wanted to use the four letter word spelled almost the same but with an sh but afraid that it would not be printed. Please read below.
I read practically every news story on this, so I would like to add some details that may help enlighten others, especially for those so critical of the "victim" and calling him a baby. Some points were brought up, based on their surnames, from Chinese posters, like me, the moniker I use on forums is my "pen name"(we may have particular interest in that because the victim was also) which natch, I say with bias, are pretty smart. One thing I read which was on the New York Times forum (which does vet their contributors, posted by a person name Yiu, and can not find it now so not sure of the accuracy) was that of the racial make up of the flight, the Asian were only 3 % yet all four asked to leave were Asians-because they are perceived as more passive? (I do not know how the poster knew, since airline reservations do NOT ask race unless he was on that flight, names one could figure out Asians, but to know if someone is white or black) so that may why the victim protested so vociferously thinking he was discriminated against.
There were many reasons why people did not give up the seats, another poster, w/Chinese surname, for some reason knew or was able to pull up flight info from the day before (do not think this went viral until Monday but if not, he found this out on Sunday,) wrote that there were other flights that UA could have put their passengers on or better yet (less likely, their crew who SHOULD have been put on) but they would have been on another airline, it's through a rule called 240, and those airlines were going later that same night so that their passengers could have arrived home that same night, why UA did not put them on there could only because they did not want to pay the other airlines for passage, from what I hear the airline does NOT give cash but travel vouchers. He also wrote that there were earlier flights out on Monday ON UA, but maybe the flights were more popular and they could still sell the seats for last minute business traveler on a higher fare basis than the one that they did offer which was at 2:30 PM, the next day, which may have been a reason why no one volunteered. I also read that the airline antagonized the passengers by coming onto the plane and threatening them by saying that the plane is not going to go anywhere unless some people got off, this certainly did not put ANYone in the mood to volunteer. Other people on forums felt that the man should take the money and rent a car-he most likely was paying to fly (driving would be cheaper,) because he doesn't like to drive a long distance! but that brings up another point which a fellow passenger suggested on the video, why did not UA hire a car to take the crew for a six hour drive when they did not have to work until the next day??
Yes, especially after Sept. 11, one must obey the flight crew, but that is for safety reasons, not for capricious decisions due to the ineptitude of the airline's planning and a passenger can and should be removed if he acts in a manner that is unpleasant and may threaten the safety of others but this was NOT, he was boarded and did not want to leave and had EVERY right to stay there as the others who were NOT "selected", it was HIS flight that he PAID for, he was not a stowaway, as I showed above there were many, many other solutions. If the airline wanted to save money, they could have flown only two of their crew on another airline and let him stay. People who criticize him for screaming should think maybe it was because he was in pain having his head hit and being dragged out of his seat by the goons who people keep calling cops or air marshals, they were not but airport cops which may have lower hiring standards and although they were NOT UA employees they were called by UA so UA has full culpability.
On another forum, as much as I dislike UA, I have to repeat what a poster on another site says, who IS a pilot who said this is NOT United but one of their feeder/commuter airlines branded as United, they have different management, it is akin to a franchisee (UA Express) to corporate (UA.) Yes, they should have the same standards and follow the policies of UA but their hiring standards are lower because of the pay and working conditions are worse. Recent accidents on airlines have happened with the pilots on those, one was a woman pilot who it was believed made an error in judgement due to fatigue, I think she made around 20K or so a year, so unable to afford her own place she lived with her parents and flew many hours to get to her starting point, another was a male pilot who was turned down by the majors as he did not have a good awareness of things around him. I have gone to flight attendant interviews and seen some people who were FA on these other airlines and by their dress and demeanor surprised that they were FA, unfortunately as bad as UA is, I do NOT think this would have occurred on their own planes, there is a modicum of more professionalism on them.
I also heard that UA would be running a promotion that the would offer $1-$10 fares to counter this PR fiasco, (and maybe to prove a point to those who so self righteously say they would never fly them again, that money talks and can get anyone to leave their high minded principles) has anyone contacted the airline and found out otherwise? Would be great if all past passengers saved their tickets stubs on other airlines and wrote on each of them and put "another flight I could've taken on United it" and put in an envelope and mailed to it's CEO.
No need to ban overbooking (this wasnt overbooking), just ban IDBs. If you want people off loaded, you have to bribe them off. End of story. UA can lead by doing this.
I think Muñoz provided another glaring example of how over-valued CEOs are.
He's making more money in a month than most make in years and with that level of compensation, he needs to be just about perfect when handling situations. Unfortunately, he proved his cookbook PR approach was ineffective.
His initial "re-accommodate" mishap reminds of when CEOs say that people have "left the company" after a large layoff.
I wonder if Mr. Muñoz...
I think Muñoz provided another glaring example of how over-valued CEOs are.
He's making more money in a month than most make in years and with that level of compensation, he needs to be just about perfect when handling situations. Unfortunately, he proved his cookbook PR approach was ineffective.
His initial "re-accommodate" mishap reminds of when CEOs say that people have "left the company" after a large layoff.
I wonder if Mr. Muñoz has ever taken a UAL flight or travels exclusively in the corporate aircraft?
United CEO is trying to "get ahead" of the Media/public of being labelled "thug/cruel..". Textbook strategy but in today's technology of social media & camera, no bad deed will get unnoticed/punished (similar to police brutality/cruelty"..
Wow. United is "offering" money to all the witnesses of that incident, since everyone on that flight is refunded.
"The owner of property can tell another individual to get off of their property, and the other individual is trespassing, breaking the law, immediately. Without regard to whether the individual was invited, or has paid rent, to be on that property."
That is utter nonsense! Are you saying a landlord can have a rent-paying tenant ejected for trespassing?
Where were the managers in all this? There has been no mention of their location nor involvemen...
When United outsourced its operations to Republic, it outsourced its reputation to.
United is not going to drop Republic because it's not about to spend an extra dollar going to a more expensive vendor.
Dr Dao is a hero. This will not happen anymore.
Fake Apology, his true reaction was out in email to employees
@Jim -- actually the regional jet holds far less than 200 passengers. This isn't peanuts, it's peanut shells.
A mere 7 figure settlement would be a huge insult. Remember Erin Andrews (ESPN anchor) won well into the 8 figures for an hidden camera nude video -- liable parties were the hotel as well as the stalker himself. I'll sidestep victim olympics, just saying it would not be unreasonable for Dr. Dao to collect over $100...
@Jim -- actually the regional jet holds far less than 200 passengers. This isn't peanuts, it's peanut shells.
A mere 7 figure settlement would be a huge insult. Remember Erin Andrews (ESPN anchor) won well into the 8 figures for an hidden camera nude video -- liable parties were the hotel as well as the stalker himself. I'll sidestep victim olympics, just saying it would not be unreasonable for Dr. Dao to collect over $100 million from United, from Republic, from the police, from the gossip rags that exposed his (or maybe not even his, just someone with the same name's) irrelevant past.
This is seriously indicative of how United operates. Too little too late with no concern for their passengers.
$500 per ticket x 200 passengers = $100,000. This is peanuts. Where is the compensation for the delay and needless anxiety created by the airline?
Dr. Dao's settlement of his eventual lawsuit with United will be $1 million, $2 million, more??
The bigger issue to me is the customer facing staff at United has (1) No power...
This is seriously indicative of how United operates. Too little too late with no concern for their passengers.
$500 per ticket x 200 passengers = $100,000. This is peanuts. Where is the compensation for the delay and needless anxiety created by the airline?
Dr. Dao's settlement of his eventual lawsuit with United will be $1 million, $2 million, more??
The bigger issue to me is the customer facing staff at United has (1) No power to deviate from their passenger unfriendly rulebooks (2) are so angry at United's management that they take it out on us passengers.
We seem to have all experienced bully by gate agents or flight attendants at one point or another. My personal observation has been United staff seems to be the unhappiest of all the major domestic airlines with Southwest staff being the happiest
@Stuart @Martina -- You've got it backwards. Rosa Parks ought to be honored to be in this comparison. She was not bloodied for her disobedience.
@Stuart
No kidding...
@Andrea Rosa Parks? Huh? You are comparing someone who stood up to racial injustice and segregation to Dr. Dao? No offense to Dr. Dao, but really, that's a stretch for sure.
@Lucky, I think @Credit is back under pseudonym @DCS. Just guessing...
@prabuddha. But the agents handling the flight and those involved in the decision making were United. The flight crew was Republic but in this circumstance they were following the directive of the United ground agents handling the flight. It's why United has not attempted to shift the blame.
The most important moment in this interview, and the issue for years on the U.S. Big Three which I have touted repeatedly, is "common sense." Delta has done a decent job of it and is improving, but American and United have fallen so far behind by building a culture of disdain blended with a lack of empathy and common sense when dealing with passengers.
Airline travel is stressful for many. They just don't get the...
The most important moment in this interview, and the issue for years on the U.S. Big Three which I have touted repeatedly, is "common sense." Delta has done a decent job of it and is improving, but American and United have fallen so far behind by building a culture of disdain blended with a lack of empathy and common sense when dealing with passengers.
Airline travel is stressful for many. They just don't get the idea that respect begets respect and how to empower employees to make the right decisions on the fly. This could have easily happened on American as well and while United got the PR nightmare it is not at all a "United only problem."
We will see if they have truly learned.
Rules and laws must be adhere to but really in this case can't the detractors realize it was United who broke the rules first by taking this man off the plane based on their own pleasure and not a valid legal option
Airlines can't have a blanket draconian dictatorship policy in kicking people off at their own pleasure for profit and use the FAA regulation of passenger must always listen to cabin crew instructions...
Rules and laws must be adhere to but really in this case can't the detractors realize it was United who broke the rules first by taking this man off the plane based on their own pleasure and not a valid legal option
Airlines can't have a blanket draconian dictatorship policy in kicking people off at their own pleasure for profit and use the FAA regulation of passenger must always listen to cabin crew instructions for their advantage. That's not law that's abuse
If people aren't allow to stand up to abuse then there is no law but rather a dictatorship regime
In a perfect world your argument on listen first complain later may work but this is not a perfect world and the rich and powerful always takes advantage and if one does not stand up for their rights it only leads to abuse
So the question here is rights vs law and which takes prescedence. Law is created to protect rights. But if law used to take away rights I don't call that law anymore
What they should do is step up and say they will be the first airline to help passengers when this situation happens again (and it will). There is no reason why they can't buy such a passenger another ticket on another airline even if it's in 1st class because we all know airlines like to sell those last minute upper class tickets and have those seats available. Give shafted passengers options to choose so that...
What they should do is step up and say they will be the first airline to help passengers when this situation happens again (and it will). There is no reason why they can't buy such a passenger another ticket on another airline even if it's in 1st class because we all know airlines like to sell those last minute upper class tickets and have those seats available. Give shafted passengers options to choose so that the passengers won't feel totally flipped off. So many things can be done but they are more concern about lawsuits at the moment.
So I sell an item on Craigslist, and exchange the money for the item at my house. Then call the police because he won't give it back when I decide I'd rather give it to my neighbor. The police rough him up. Yes, it is my fault.
What really sucks is that though United is getting all the blame, the problem was created by Republic Airlines. United actually had another flight in 2 hours but that flight was not on Republic Airlines rather is was on Skywest. Republic did not want to or could not put its pilots on the Skywest flight. They insisted on being put on the Republic flight and for paying passengers being bumped. Probably thought it would be...
What really sucks is that though United is getting all the blame, the problem was created by Republic Airlines. United actually had another flight in 2 hours but that flight was not on Republic Airlines rather is was on Skywest. Republic did not want to or could not put its pilots on the Skywest flight. They insisted on being put on the Republic flight and for paying passengers being bumped. Probably thought it would be easier to reaccomodate United paying passengers than pilots from a different subsidiary airline. In fact Dao was ready to deboard when he thought he would be on a flight a couple hours later. However when they told him they would not put him on the next United flight in 2 hours but on the next Republic flight in 20 hours he sat down. Anyone would have sat down if they had to face a 20 hour delay on a 1.30 hr flight especially if they had work the next day. United should drop Republic as a feeder airline
Sure. Refund the millions they've taken from the rest of us by stranding us, bumping us, 're-accommodating' us to airports and schedules FAR removed from the original itinerary.
This airline is the worst in IRROPS and trying to get them to make you whole is impossible.
2 million miles on them, and I can't stand even to see the logo anymore.
I wonder if those customers will still receive the redeemable miles for the routing credit as well as elite qulifiying dollars & miles
Why are we still talking on the flight being overbooked, and the whole topic of overbooking?
The UAL flight wasn't overbooked.
And IMHO, if correctly done, overbooking isn't that bad. I like volunteering if I'm not in a hurry... those vouchers come in handy.
So comparing Dr. Dao to Ms. Parks gets your message censored on this blog? And why is that? The similarities are so obvious and it is a hardly offensive comment. Disappointed
@ andrea -- We really don't censor here (other than extreme cases from repeat offenders) just comments aren't approved right away if it's the first time you're posting.
@Paul M. Overbooking wasn't the issue here. This incident wasn't caused by overbooking. The flight was not overbooked. United determined - after the flight was boarded - that it needed to get a crew to Louisville. They were willing to prioritize this crew over and above paying customers to get them there. All airlines actually have the same priorities in similar situation - including airlines like JetBlue that do not overbook. And that decision can...
@Paul M. Overbooking wasn't the issue here. This incident wasn't caused by overbooking. The flight was not overbooked. United determined - after the flight was boarded - that it needed to get a crew to Louisville. They were willing to prioritize this crew over and above paying customers to get them there. All airlines actually have the same priorities in similar situation - including airlines like JetBlue that do not overbook. And that decision can be a legitimate business decision.
What made this incident different is that United wasn't willing to pay customers enough to get them off the plane voluntarily. United was also way too willing to call the cops on paying customers to solve its crew scheduling problem. I suspect that the agents weren't empowered to offer more money, didn't quite understand that there might be a legal distinction between a normal denied boarding situation, which has a defined set of rules, and actually yanking someone off the plane. United's policies are going to be reviewed internally - as are the policies at Delta, American, Southwest, etc., - because of what happened here. Expect to see, that once you're on the plane, the only way the airline is going to get you out of your assigned seat is to get you to voluntarily agree to give it up, agents to be given additional authority to get passengers to volunteer, and airlines never to call the cops on paying customers in similar situations. If these actions don't happen voluntarily, Congress will take action. Congressional action would likely address overbooking too, which wouldn't necessarily be a good thing for passengers.
Another issue, of course, is that the cops should not have intervened here on the side of one party in what was just a civil dispute. It's not a legitimate police role. Imagine the reverse of this situation. Dr. Dao calls the cops on United because they breached its Contract of Carriage with him and won't let him board the plane. And let's say that the breach is clear - for example, they didn't ask for volunteers or they didn't provide him a written statement about their denied boarding procedures (all of which are required). Do you think that the cops would have intervened on his behalf and forced United to put him on the plane? NO WAY. They would have told him to sue because the dispute is a civil one. How then did it become acceptable for the cops to intervene on behalf of United in cases like this one? It's not acceptable and never has been.
Dr Dao is the Rosa Parks of the skies. Hats off to him. This really will make a difference.
@chancer -- How predictable. He tries to change the scenario to make it fit has answer, but still manages to get it wrong.
So, I call the police, even when there was no disturbance, and the police shoot someone and it is my fault? Think...think!
G'day!
@Jason says: "is your name an abbreviation of Dumbass Cock Sucker?"
The crudeness of question reflects on you and let's all know who is the f#$%ing "Dumbass Cock Sucker".
If you are so smart, and you definitely are not, take the simple quiz and flunk it publicly, and then go to hell.
Commentators here and in the media continue to say that the flight was overbooked. It was not overbooked. It was fully booked, and the problem didn't arise until United decided to displace paying passengers solely to free up seats for its own employees. To say the flight was overbooked is misleading because it lets United off the hook by implying that it made a simple mistake like letting too many people board for the available...
Commentators here and in the media continue to say that the flight was overbooked. It was not overbooked. It was fully booked, and the problem didn't arise until United decided to displace paying passengers solely to free up seats for its own employees. To say the flight was overbooked is misleading because it lets United off the hook by implying that it made a simple mistake like letting too many people board for the available number of seats, which isn't what happened.
You understand they ate just doing this to try to prevent further lawsuites from passengers that suffered trauma.
Damn I haven't heard JoJo in like 10 years.
As long as there exist fares with no penalties for no shows, airlines will overbook. The airlines simply need to offer higher compensations when these situations exist.
To the moron who says United should give the money to charity. Blow it out your left wing... ass.
@Mark -- a cock is a chicken
Jason - this country was founded on (among other things) a high respect for private property. The government cannot, except under limited circumstances, just come in and seize your property. A right which we enjoy so comfortably, we forget this is not the case everywhere.
That respect for private property extends to laws protecting the owner of property from other individuals as well as the government. The owner of property can tell another individual...
Jason - this country was founded on (among other things) a high respect for private property. The government cannot, except under limited circumstances, just come in and seize your property. A right which we enjoy so comfortably, we forget this is not the case everywhere.
That respect for private property extends to laws protecting the owner of property from other individuals as well as the government. The owner of property can tell another individual to get off of their property, and the other individual is trespassing, breaking the law, immediately. Without regard to whether the individual was invited, or has paid rent, to be on that property. They are trespassing. Of course, if the property-owning party is breaching a contract by ordering the second party to exit, then the terms of the contract are used to determine the compensation or satisfaction to the trespassing party.
United had every right to ask the passenger to leave. United had every right to call in LEO when the passenger refused to leave. In fact, they were legally obligated to do so. (you can't not follow the instructions of a uniformed crew member. You're considered a security risk and a danger to fellow passengers). Law enforcement had every right to insist that the poor, ill gentleman leave the premises. LEO had every right to physically force him to leave when he refused to follow their instructions.
It is a very sad story. But the passenger is not an innocent party, here.
An absurd resolution.
@jason. Don't need you profanity here
@ DCS - Yes, the party who called the police must shoulder some blame in cases where there was nothing to call about in the first place. As for a neighborhood disturbance? That could mean anything to some people.
Really, go back to trolling all mentions of Starpoints. You are way out of your element here.
@DCS
It's obvious your hypothetical situation works but you can't compare the two. I don't think anyone is saying that the police weren't at fault. I believe most people are upset because of the way United handled the entire situation.
Couple of points...
1. I'm not sure you win any credibility points with a winks and JoJo videos in your comments.
2. Do you really know Mr. Muñoz well enough to call him by his first name and think you know his thoughts?
In my humble opinion, the saddest part of this is the lack of empathy by the hundred plus passengers that never volunteered to take his place yet will be first in line to belittle United.
A very sad situation.
@DCS -- is your name an abbreviation of Dumbass Cock Sucker?
Yes, there IS something that can be done and it's outlined in this excellent article.
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/heres-how-avoid-united-incident-your-company-dave-crenshaw?trk=eml-email_feed_ecosystem_digest_01-hero-0-null&midToken=AQGpbjof_058Eg&fromEmail=fromEmail&ut=00EvaCFBmqsnI1
Even if this poor man was uncooperative, he did not deserve to be dragged off the plane like a dead animal. I hope he is okay and I predict we will be reading about an out-of-court settlement.
If two people are not assigned the same seat and allowed to board the plane, this will not happen in the...
Yes, there IS something that can be done and it's outlined in this excellent article.
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/heres-how-avoid-united-incident-your-company-dave-crenshaw?trk=eml-email_feed_ecosystem_digest_01-hero-0-null&midToken=AQGpbjof_058Eg&fromEmail=fromEmail&ut=00EvaCFBmqsnI1
Even if this poor man was uncooperative, he did not deserve to be dragged off the plane like a dead animal. I hope he is okay and I predict we will be reading about an out-of-court settlement.
If two people are not assigned the same seat and allowed to board the plane, this will not happen in the future.
@A -- we do not live in a country of rules. Our country exists in the first place because of rule breakers. The public CAN act any way they want because our governance is OF, BY, and FOR the people.
@A -- I am sure they agree with you -- as I do -- but the mass hysteria left them little choice.
@rkb -- It's just a one-time PR stunt. They believe they will never have to do it again because they have now learned from two incidents how to get ahead of similar incidents in the future...
One note. It was NOT the Chicago Police Department that removed Dr Dao, but instead the aviation police/security. I think there was confusion around all the media because of a hastly crafted press release by someone at CPD that made it sound as though they were in someway involved.
I've lost a lot of faith in United over this incident. They gave into the pressure of the uneducated public who think that they can act in anyway they want. We live in a country of rules. You must respect those rules. In my opinion the "limited practice doctor" didn't deserve to be on the flight and UA was totally in the clear. They should have stood their ground.
What makes the passengers on this flight so special?
If United starts refunding all the passengers that that have witnessed abuse or reprehensible conduct by their employees, then they will no doubt be broke by next Tuesday.
Of course there is a solution. Stop overbooking. It is a practice 100% guaranteed to put paying passengers into chaos. It does that by design. The airline I fly does not overbook and you pay for a seat and you get that seat barring the plane not being there at all. UAL (and others) created the mess with the policy of overbooking, using this operational recipe to squeeze gains but in the end knowing 100%...
Of course there is a solution. Stop overbooking. It is a practice 100% guaranteed to put paying passengers into chaos. It does that by design. The airline I fly does not overbook and you pay for a seat and you get that seat barring the plane not being there at all. UAL (and others) created the mess with the policy of overbooking, using this operational recipe to squeeze gains but in the end knowing 100% it is the customer who get squeezed when the plan goes as expected and fills all the seats plus a few. Today, we are fully connected and there is no reason to wait to be at the gate to learn the flight was overbooked weeks ago. Technology can be used to prevent this nonsense.
Ban overbooking or penalize this practice which relies on the customer to take the brunt of the fallout. Pay for the seat you want and get the seat you pay for. Simple. UAL, avoid the chaos and just sell what you have and no more. UAL has the technology to make this work so it should learn from this fiasco and take the bold step and announce the policy change to end the ridiculous practice of overbooking.
Another unambiguous incident of "police" brutality in America is hyped 24/7, with the mass hysteria forcing the one entity that did things "by the book" -- the airline -- to suffer the consequences, while the real culprits -- the "police" -- are almost completely ignored. You take out the roughing up of the passenger and there is no drama at all, which tells you all you need to know...
...nevertheless, take this simple quiz if...
Another unambiguous incident of "police" brutality in America is hyped 24/7, with the mass hysteria forcing the one entity that did things "by the book" -- the airline -- to suffer the consequences, while the real culprits -- the "police" -- are almost completely ignored. You take out the roughing up of the passenger and there is no drama at all, which tells you all you need to know...
...nevertheless, take this simple quiz if you are still unsure:
There is a disturbance in your neighborhood. You call the cops or 911 -- it's legal and recommended in America. Police officers show up, but instead of trying to defuse the situation, they inflame it by roughing people up, or a trigger happy cop shoots and kills someone. Is it your fault for calling the cops? See how simple and clear that is?
G'day.
Aside from the stock, I think the legal eagles evaluated the situation and said "we're dead in the water and have no chance of winning a lawsuit. Recant, recant, and let's settle." Munoz even implied so himself saying 'once the passenger is fully boarded, it is a different story.'
Whatever the motivations, I am glad a real apology was issued and (it seems like) policies changed/re-evaluated.
@dan
"Oscar was wrong in telling us that it’s never too late to do the right thing. Timing is everything. If you don’t believe in the value of time, you have a lot to learn."
Really? If you don't believe his apology that's one thing, but I hope the next time you do something wrong and seek redemption, the folks you wronged are a bit more forgiving than you. But I guess if the goal is to fan the flames and turn this into another Ferguson, then spot on.
False defamation too?? Wow, insult to injury. Good journalism is non existent! Nothing against u OMAAT guys
Yup. Too little, to late. How will you make UA a better airline Oscar?
I'd rather they give the money to charity instead. Were the passengers on the flight stressed out from witnessing such a spectacle? The same passengers who didn't intervene and offer up their seat instead? Or are United worried this "stress" will result in lawsuits?
Interesting move, but too little too late. The cat's outta the bag: United looks terrible. Munoz looks even worse. And hopefully the saga is just beginning, assuming Dr. Dao lawyers-up, which I'm guessing he has.
One of my husband's partners used to work with Dao and the man in the video is the same David Dao.
@Ben : exactly how many "David Dao"'s are there in Kentucky (of all states) that both happen to practice medicine ?
if it's a mix up of David Dao's in Orange County or Houston, at least it's semi plausible. Really, Kentucky ?!
Smart move by UA to prevent further lawsuits from other passengers on this flight for Post Traumatic syndrome. I'll bet United will required a sign-off for any future lawsuits as condition for payments.
Oscar was wrong in telling us that it's never too late to do the right thing. Timing is everything. If you don't believe in the value of time, you have a lot to learn.
Well compare this in contrast to the incident on Air India where the passenger ( Minister of Parliament and an as*h*** of the highest order) beat up a Flight Attendant after boarding the flight. He was initially banned and added to the No-Fly List. After backroom dealings, the govt of India ordered Air India to take him off the no-fly List and he's back on the same flight he was thrown out off.
http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/weeks-after-assault-shiv-sena-mp-ravindra-gaikwad-to-take-the-same-air-india-flight-today-1679282
Wonder...
Well compare this in contrast to the incident on Air India where the passenger ( Minister of Parliament and an as*h*** of the highest order) beat up a Flight Attendant after boarding the flight. He was initially banned and added to the No-Fly List. After backroom dealings, the govt of India ordered Air India to take him off the no-fly List and he's back on the same flight he was thrown out off.
http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/weeks-after-assault-shiv-sena-mp-ravindra-gaikwad-to-take-the-same-air-india-flight-today-1679282
Wonder what could have been had been if this actually happened on a United flight out of Delhi or Mumbai and he was asked to be re-accommodated.
.
And now there's report that there's been an identity mistake on Dr. Dao. The one with the criminal record isn't this Dr. Dao on UA flight.
Too little, too late
(Don't put yourself in this situation to start with)
Yawn...let's move on already