The Horrible Video I Hadn’t Seen Of The Guy Being Dragged Off A United Flight…

Earlier I wrote about the horrible situation that unfolded on a United flight to Louisville last night, where a passenger was forcefully dragged off a flight because it was oversold. What I hadn’t yet seen was the below video of him back on the plane after the incident occurred (somehow he managed to run back on the plane).

Wow, wow, wow…

 

(Tip of the hat to @AAPLTree)

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Ralph Guest

Almost no one pays full price to fly.... All discounted tickets give the airline the right to bump you. I am certain he was chosen from a list of people who had discounted tickets. This guy refused to get off when he signed a contract/ purchased a bumpable ticket. He also refused to obey a flight officer on an aircraft..... a felony. Then he refused to obey a security officer in a crowded plane, another felony. What was the police officer supposed to do? You have an obvious felon from a crowded airplane refusing to obey the rules. He used force. Probably too much force.... but what was he really supposed to do?

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DavidTC Guest

A lot of people are stating, as fact, that, legally, 'boarding' continues until the doors are closed and the airplane starts moving. Uh, no. There is a special 'aircraft in flight' jurisdiction under US law that starts up at that second and special rules now apply. The doors closing and the plane moving *is* a real threshold in the law. So, yes there is, legally, an 'aircraft-in-flight' jurisdiction. But the opposite of that, what goes away when you close the doors and reappears when you open them, is 'normal-local-jurisdiction-that-everything-is-always-under-so-we-have-no-special-name-for-it' jurisdiction, not 'boarding'. And assuming that is called 'boarding' is a dumbass assumption anyway...mostly because airplanes also are not legally in flight while passengers *exit*, and while they sit empty, and while they're in maintenance. The boarding process is something else entirely. -- But it's even dumber than that. What people are *really* trying to do is say is: No one was legally boarded until the second this hypothetical 'boarding process' ended and aircraft-in-flight started, so he could still be 'refused boarding'. Basically, people are trying to claim that closing the door instantly made everyone boarded, and no one was boarded before that. But not only is that *not* textually supported by the law in any manner, it causes sorts of nonsense if true! For one problem, if the people magically board the instant the flight starts, no one could have any checked luggage, because checked luggage can only be put on a plane for *people who are boarded* on that plane. (Are they hurtling in the luggage as the plane goes down the runway?) For another fun problem, that means you could buy refundable tickets, physically get on your plane, and then get your ticket refunded because you hadn't yet 'boarded the plane'. Oh, and have fun transitioning to takeoff when *the pilot hasn't boarded yet*. The entire concept is gibberish! All the laws imply that people on a plane, regardless of whether or not it is moving, have boarded when they got on the plane. Here's a fun law: § 121.394 Flight attendant requirements during passenger boarding and deplaning. (a) During passenger boarding, on each airplane for which more than one flight attendant is required by § 121.391, the certificate holder may: (1) Reduce the number of required flight attendants by one, provided that: (i) The flight attendant that leaves the aircraft remains within the immediate vicinity of the door through which passengers are boarding; Hey, look. Passengers *are boarding* though a door! Which would mean that when they come though a door, they *are boarded*. And *that is how the airline itself* uses the term 'boarding'! They say things like 'first class boards first' and 'now boarding' and whatnot. They sure seem to speak like 'boarding' is the process of showing your ticket, getting on the plane, and getting in your seat, not some event that happens at moment in time the doors close. Yes, under the law, words sometimes mean something other than the obvious, common meaning, but *this is not one of them*. There is no definition of 'boarding' I can find under the law. And without any sort of definition under the law, the word 'boarding' means what everyone (including the airline itself!) uses to mean: 'Getting on the airplane'. And thus 'denied boarding' means 'not allowed to get on the plane', not 'allowed on the plane and later removed'. As far as I can tell, this guy successfully boarded that airplane, legally speaking. And people need to stop making up claims that no one is legally boarded until the plane is about to leave *unless they can cite some law stating that*.

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Ham Hamilton III, Esq. Guest

At this point, nothing is clear. It would be a mistake to assume it is. We have some sensational amateur video snippets that went viral, hearsay that is compounding exponentially, a flurry of yellow journalism ricocheting around the world with juicy headlines about everything from undeniable racism to abuse of a medical license and prescription drugs for gay sex, etc., etc., etc., .... psychological evaluations, mental disorders, etc., and lots of self-indulgent bloggers gleefully quoting each other as armchair experts who were not there. Ann Coulter allegedly tweeted that David Dao should be deported for illegal medical practice. No doubt there is lots of other evidence being compiled from the time of the event to which the public is not yet privy. If everything is so clear, then we would not need the teams of high powered lawyers rushing in like schools of blood-thirsty sharks to do battle on all sides of this equation. In this day in age, "justice" does not necessarily represent what we would hope it does. Please fasten your seat belts, and put your trays in their upright positions.

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B. Williams Guest

United clearly violated the rules of its own Contract of Carriage in removing the passenger. Rule 21: "UA shall have the right to refuse to transport or shall have the right to remove from the aircraft at any point, any Passenger for the following reasons:...." There are too many reasons to list, but they all relate to termination for cause and none of listed reasons apply to the situation here. They mostly deal with safety or the passenger breaking the terms of the Contract themselves. Needing to transport your own employees is simply not a valid reason to break the Contract as written. This was not an actual overbooking situation, but overbooking is also not a listed reason for "removal". Overbooking can only be used to deny the initial boarding, which is why airlines are careful to only let standby passengers board right at the end. Overbooking can not be used for "removal". The passenger had a clear legal right to the seat as spelled out in his ticket and the Contract of Carriage. The police screwed up big time too. This was a contract dispute, not a safety issue or an emergency, so they had no legal right to physically remove the passenger without first establishing probable cause for the removal. In emergency situations, citizens are supposed to promptly obey police commands, but this was not an emergency. United's scheduling screw-up with its 4 crew members does not invalidate the passenger's contractual and legal rights.

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Jason Fisher New Member

The 3 major US airlines are what you see. This makes me sick in my stomach. What some others have said about why no volunteers. I am always asking to be bumped. Why did the person get on the plane to be dragged off. This I want to know. Wait until you find out how many employees were flying on that plane that would not offer there seat up.

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