Airlines take very different approaches to long haul first class. Some airlines continue to see a big market for this and invest in the product, while other airlines think business class is sufficient. In many ways, this represents a larger shift we’ve seen over the years, whereby the quality of business class has improved considerably.
Along those lines, Qatar Airways’ CEO has made some interesting comments about the future of first class (or lack thereof) at the airline.
In this post:
Qatar Airways plans for future without first class
Qatar Airways is known for offering a great passenger experience, and in particular for its Qsuites business class, which is considered by many to be the best in the world. Interestingly the airline takes a different approach with long haul first class, as the airline doesn’t install first class on a vast majority of its aircraft.
All of Qatar Airways’ newly delivered long haul aircraft, including Airbus A350s and Boeing 787s, don’t feature first class. Currently Qatar Airways only has long haul first class on the following aircraft:
- All Airbus A380s, which the airline plans to retire before the end of this decade; the airline had intended to retire these jets during the pandemic, but brought them back due to an aircraft shortage
- A few Boeing 777s, which Qatar Airways picked up from Cathay Pacific, so the airline just maintained the cabins installed on those jets
Qatar Airways has 40 Boeing 777-9s on order, which will eventually become the carrier’s flagship aircraft, once they’re delivered in 2025 and beyond. Since these planes will be on Qatar Airways’ most important routes, including to London, Paris, etc., the question has long been whether Qatar Airways would install first class on these planes or not.
In the past Qatar Airways CEO Akbar Al Baker stated that the airline was studying installing a first class cabin on select Boeing 777-9s. However, it looks like that’s not in the cards anymore. As reported by Danny Lee at Bloomberg, Al Baker has made it clear that first class has no future at the airline, and that Qatar Airways doesn’t plan on installing first class on its upcoming Boeing 777-9s.
Al Baker argues that first class doesn’t justify the returns, since Qatar Airways’ business class offers many of the same perks as first class on other airlines. Al Baker instead wants to focus on continuing to offer a world class business class. As he explains:
“Why should you invest in a subclass of an aeroplane that already gives you all the amenities that first class gives you. I don’t see the necessity.”
So it sounds like we shouldn’t expect Qatar Airways to eliminate first class on any existing aircraft, though it’s expected that both the A380 and 777 will be retired well before 2030, at which point there will be no planes with long haul first class anymore.
My take on Qatar Airways eliminating first class
I’m not surprised to see Qatar Airways planning on ditching long haul first class in the future, since the writing was on the wall for that. I do think it’s worth briefly discussing the two fundamental claims here:
- The investment in first class isn’t worth it
- Qatar Airways business class offers all the perks of first class on other airlines
I agree with Qatar Airways that the investment in first class probably doesn’t make much sense, at least based on Qatar Airways’ current fleet. If you’re a Gulf carrier (and are therefore reliant on connecting passengers), I think you need to basically take an “all or nothing” approach with first class.
Qatar Airways currently only offers first class in a handful of markets, so of course the demand will be limited. That’s because you can’t really capture the global demand for first class, when a vast majority of tickets you sell are going to be mixed cabin itineraries.
Most people wouldn’t want to book a Qatar Airways first class ticket from London to Sydney via Doha or from Paris to Tokyo via Doha when only one of the two segments will be in first class. That’s especially true when Emirates offers first class on most of its fleet.
Furthermore, Qatar Airways isn’t currently allocating its A380s based on the routes with the highest premium demand, but rather based on the routes with the highest overall demand, where the A380’s capacity is needed. For example, Qatar Airways flies the A380 to Perth, where first class seems to be mostly empty a vast majority of the time, while business class and economy are often full.
So I understand how based on Qatar Airways’ current business model, the demand for first class just isn’t there.
Then there’s the question of whether Qatar Airways’ business class really offers all the amenities that other airlines give you in first class. Look, Qatar Airways’ business class is exceptional, with dine on demand, great food and drinks, pajamas, and more.
However, unless you’re comparing yourself to TAAG Angola first class, there’s still a major difference between a world class first class and Qatar Airways’ exceptional business class. Just to give some examples:
- A proper first class seat offers a lot more personal space and privacy than Qatar Airways’ business class
- While Qatar Airways’ business class is great, a proper first class features an all-around better dining experience, with caviar, a higher end drink selection, and more elaborate presentation
- First class often features much more personalized inflight service, with a much better flight attendant to passenger ratio than in business class
- Airlines can do a lot more to customize the ground experience for first class passengers, as we see Air France do for its La Premiere passengers
I think fundamentally Qatar Airways’ “issue” is that compared to the competition, the airline over invests in business class and under invests in first class, and then comes to the conclusion that first class just isn’t worth it.
But you can’t tell me that Qatar Airways’ (excellent) business class…
…is the same caliber as Emirates’ excellent new first class (but let’s not even talk about the horrible job emirates has done rolling out this product).
Bottom line
Qatar Airways’ CEO has made it clear that the airline doesn’t plan to offer first class on any future delivery aircraft, including the Boeing 777-9s that are due to be delivered in the coming years. Once A380s and 777s are retired (which should be in the coming years), Qatar Airways will no longer offer a long haul first class product.
That’s fair enough. Qatar Airways chooses to instead invest in having an excellent business class product, and that’s much easier to sell. However, I don’t think it can reasonably be argued that Qatar Airways’ business class offers all the same amenities as first class on top carriers.
What do you make of Qatar Airways not having long haul first class in its future?
Many French, German, and Japanese firms still maintain their corporate travel policies allowing their senior execs to fly first class when traveling intercontinental. But perhaps not in the US anymore.
But that's the thing, no?
It's only when it's on the company's dime.
And how is it possible to provide an anti-social, individualist luxury-service when you are so clearly not on a charter jet?
As someone who’s flown long-haul business class well over 100 times on around 15 airlines, and long haul first class 0 times - is there something truly so so very incredibly special?
Lucky gets as spoilt as they come talking about first - yeah, right, there’s more personal space and caviar, and good champagne, and sometimes an S class will drive you to the plane 5 minutes ahead of business class. And for all...
As someone who’s flown long-haul business class well over 100 times on around 15 airlines, and long haul first class 0 times - is there something truly so so very incredibly special?
Lucky gets as spoilt as they come talking about first - yeah, right, there’s more personal space and caviar, and good champagne, and sometimes an S class will drive you to the plane 5 minutes ahead of business class. And for all those perks worth $500-$1000, you’re paying 5-10k (round trip) on top of business.
I understand first is for those who can probably afford chartering a jet, but opt in for commercial so 5-10k extra per flight ain’t much.
But realistically - a good business class is 3-5k worldwide; first is 10-18k. Is a slightly bigger seat with a bit caviar up your asss worth the heavy markup?
Hear, here…!
The online message-boards and forums are filled with first-class flyers literally with a sense of entitlement ginormous to the extent of a rich titanium-spoon fellow ranting at their charter-jet crew.
They genuinely don't wish to understand that on a commercial-airline, “first class” can only mean concierge at Best — but it's still with as much caveats as staying in a 7-star "heritage" hotels *with others*, in stead of like.. Renting a remote farmhouse/mansion,...
Hear, here…!
The online message-boards and forums are filled with first-class flyers literally with a sense of entitlement ginormous to the extent of a rich titanium-spoon fellow ranting at their charter-jet crew.
They genuinely don't wish to understand that on a commercial-airline, “first class” can only mean concierge at Best — but it's still with as much caveats as staying in a 7-star "heritage" hotels *with others*, in stead of like.. Renting a remote farmhouse/mansion, which is analogous to chartering a small jet.
Oneworld's first class footprint is definitely shrinking between AA and QR cutting first class, and that's unfortunate, even if the products only represent marginal improvements over their respective business classes.
@Lucky do you have any plans to do any "one last hurrah" trips in Flagship First and burn some SWUs?
Having flown QR First to Auckland, I was disappointed by the lack of privacy on a 14hr flight on an otherwise extremely comfortable bed. The food and service was great. I wonder how this will impact upon the Al Safawa lounge.
Dislike the Q suites greatly. Find them claustrophobic.
Really not that surprising, there is no airline that is actively expanding their F footprint, they are all pulling back or entirely eliminating it. There's not enough passengers willing and able to pay the high cash fares required to support an F cabin, and airlines don't keep cabins around just so points enthusiasts and travel bloggers can book saver award tickets
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Mᵜāz Kalīm Guest
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8 more repliesWrong Qantas is currently offering F class on all A380 and they are normally fully booked. They are also adding 6 x F class to their new A350 LR due in 2025. there is a market from SYD/MEL to LHR, LAX and JFK.
The backbone of Qantas' long-haul fleet is the 787 and A330, neither of which have F...they only fly the A380 to the highest demand, highest yield destinations from Australia (LHR, SIN, HKG, and LAX are the first to come to mind). The A350 is only going to have 6 F seats, vs 14 on the A380, and again only flown to a handful of the highest yield destinations (and the longer the flight, the more...
The backbone of Qantas' long-haul fleet is the 787 and A330, neither of which have F...they only fly the A380 to the highest demand, highest yield destinations from Australia (LHR, SIN, HKG, and LAX are the first to come to mind). The A350 is only going to have 6 F seats, vs 14 on the A380, and again only flown to a handful of the highest yield destinations (and the longer the flight, the more worth it paying up for a fancy cabin is, so it's not surprising that on ultra-long haul flights to the highest yield markets, there would be more demand for F). Qantas used to have F on the majority of their long-haul aircraft, and the ones on the 747 were 14-seat cabins. A 6-seat F cabin on one long-haul subfleet when previously there were 14-seat F cabins across the entire long-haul fleet is hardly a ringing endorsement of F demand
.. except that the QF A350 will have half the seating capacity of the A380's. So, being fair and comparing cabin capacities, the above comment from Austline must be considered as correct.
The QF A350 is intended to operate ultra-long haul nonstops in tandem with one-stop services, so comparing the A350 alone against an A380 doesn't really make sense...what today is QF1/QF2 SYD-SIN-LHR on an A380 will be replaced with a new QF1/QF2 SYD-LHR nonstop on an A350, and then another one-stop itinerary, which would likely be SYD-PER-LHR on a 787 rather than SYD-SIN-LHR given the SIN route is more competitive and once the A380 is retired,...
The QF A350 is intended to operate ultra-long haul nonstops in tandem with one-stop services, so comparing the A350 alone against an A380 doesn't really make sense...what today is QF1/QF2 SYD-SIN-LHR on an A380 will be replaced with a new QF1/QF2 SYD-LHR nonstop on an A350, and then another one-stop itinerary, which would likely be SYD-PER-LHR on a 787 rather than SYD-SIN-LHR given the SIN route is more competitive and once the A380 is retired, the 787 is the only other long haul plane that QF will fly beyond Asia other than the A350. So when you look at 1 A350 nonstop plus 1 787 one-stop, there will be in total 6 F seats that QF is flying between SYD and LHR, but 94 J seats and 68 PE seats. That compares to the current A380 offering of 14 F / 70 J / 60 PE, and then it becomes quite obvious that QF is emphasizing J at the expense of F just like every other carrier.
Also, even if you look at just QF's A350 vs A380 seat layouts, while the A350 may have "half" the seats of the A380's capacity in total, where they cut that capacity from was not equal. F goes from 14 to 6 (57% reduction), J goes from 70 to 52 (26% reduction), PE goes from 60 to 40 (33% reduction), and Y goes from 341 to 140 (59% reduction). The capacity was not cut equally, it came disproportionately out of Y (understandable given these aircraft are intended to serve the longest and most premium routes) and F (which you would expect to have kept a higher percentage of seats, again because these are intended to serve the longest and most premium routes). So even on an aircraft intended to serve the longest and most premium routes where you should have more F demand if it was really there as much as Austline and Ben talk about, F capacity has been cut back dramatically from the A380 vs J capacity. Hardly a ringing endorsement of widespread F demand
You assume way too much.
F is also the most weight-intensive class, which is a gigantic deterrence from ULH inclusion: it's the primary reason why Singapore still offers 1stop service to LAX, JFK, and SFO, despite having nonstops to each of the above.
First has demand, but its weight penalty increases exponentially on flights beyond 14hrs, which is why it was never offered on the ULH A340-500 and A350-900 nonstops to the US....
You assume way too much.
F is also the most weight-intensive class, which is a gigantic deterrence from ULH inclusion: it's the primary reason why Singapore still offers 1stop service to LAX, JFK, and SFO, despite having nonstops to each of the above.
First has demand, but its weight penalty increases exponentially on flights beyond 14hrs, which is why it was never offered on the ULH A340-500 and A350-900 nonstops to the US. That's a direct quote from Singapore's Lau Hwa Peng, who was at the time their VP of Fleet.
The fact that QF is going to be flying nonstops up to 7hrs longer than the cutoff point that Singapore just gave, yet STILL is choosing to offer F, is actually a testament to the strength of F demand for them; not weakness, as you so incorrectly surmise.
or did*, with SFO
The weight penalty is irrelevant; if there's strong F demand, there should be customers willing to pay the required premium to support the weight and space requirements of F. The net effect to F capacity once QF is done with its fleet revitalization is to have 72 F seats (6 F x 12 A350s), down from 168 F seats previously (14 F x 12 A380s), despite flying to all the same destinations that QF previously...
The weight penalty is irrelevant; if there's strong F demand, there should be customers willing to pay the required premium to support the weight and space requirements of F. The net effect to F capacity once QF is done with its fleet revitalization is to have 72 F seats (6 F x 12 A350s), down from 168 F seats previously (14 F x 12 A380s), despite flying to all the same destinations that QF previously flew F to (LAX, SIN, HKG, LHR primarily, as well as DFW though that for onwards connecting capacity rather than F demand to DFW) plus new ones (JFK, which they weren't flying F to when they were using the 787; CDG and FRA, which are not yet confirmed but have been previously mentioned as Sunrise destinations). No matter how you analyze the facts, QF is flying fewer F seats but more J seats across their long-haul network, just like every other carrier in the world. The only people claiming that there is widespread F demand are those that pay for F primarily if not exclusively with saver awards, which is exactly why airlines keep downsizing if not entirely removing F cabins from their planes
The weight penalty is irrelevant
Stopped reading after that point. Nothing else you can say would make up for such an idiotic notion within the confines of aviation.
Yikes!
Uncalled-for personal insult.
Unironically, from a person who has named themselves after such an invention — certainly nothing to do with ‘in spite of great consumer-interest’, right?
No wonder that when your very premise was taken to its logical conclusion, you have had no option but resort to personal-attacks to justify this ‘Qantas is very actively expanding the First’ romanticism.
Agree with Al Baker for once. The Q Suite checks all the boxes for me so even without knowing the price difference between their J and F products, I’d probably never opt for the F product.
Have flown in Q suites and in F on Qatar. The F seat is better than the Q suite in terms of space/comfort. There was more attention to passengers in F than J by far. Not saying J service was bad just that in F the ratio was much better and the service was attentive. The F lounge experience was quite good although I didn't have time to visit the J lounges. So in the...
Have flown in Q suites and in F on Qatar. The F seat is better than the Q suite in terms of space/comfort. There was more attention to passengers in F than J by far. Not saying J service was bad just that in F the ratio was much better and the service was attentive. The F lounge experience was quite good although I didn't have time to visit the J lounges. So in the end F was clearly better than J it just wasn't that much of a step up. Compared to other carriers F product? I had a flight in LH F on the same trip and it was on par with that when it came to the onboard product. I've flown Emirates in F (older product) and while it is above Qatar F I don't think its the end all be all. I found emirates to be a bit of a letdown to be frank. Compared to the newer SQ F though yea Qatar has no chance of hanging at that level.
Did you start invoking “J” as a reference for “Q suites[sic]” without noting that you are?
It seems that Danny leave SCMP and join Bloomberg
I flew Qatar ca. 10 times since January, mainly Business, twice First (Cathay fleet, to Maldives and back). The First on Qatar offers a great seat, however the food was mediocre (except for the Kaviar, excellent). Wine Selection including Champagner was ok (Keller white wine was a true find for me). Amenities were the same as business, that included kits made out of paper boxes! I found this unacceptable for First. By the way, I...
I flew Qatar ca. 10 times since January, mainly Business, twice First (Cathay fleet, to Maldives and back). The First on Qatar offers a great seat, however the food was mediocre (except for the Kaviar, excellent). Wine Selection including Champagner was ok (Keller white wine was a true find for me). Amenities were the same as business, that included kits made out of paper boxes! I found this unacceptable for First. By the way, I am the only one that hates that diptyque fragrance, way too sweet for men?!
On Business, I had dreadful (and very expensive!) flights to Cape Town a few times this year, with clear cost cutting everywhere (like the mentioned boxed amenity kits, or not enough PJs on board).
Every time I flew to CPT, the cabin was completely full, with many crying babies even in Business, which to a point is of course ok, but not when the cabin is full and people stressed out all around. Qsuites was only on two flights, every other time they changed planes and had us fly in the older setting (while I took great care when booking to have good seats and Qsuites). However, the older seat is actually ok, and I feel a bit cramped in Qsuites, though I love the doors.
Even though I have highest frequent flyer status with Qatar, very easy things do not work on Qatar for me: several times they did not have my preferred meal selection anymore (why do they not start with asking frequent flyers first??), the champagne was always the same these past few months and not very good, and almost always lukewarm. One flight from CPT after changing aircraft, they put me in the last row, as a result I was "enjoying" constant baby cries from the first row of economy right behind me. WHY are they not putting families with babies in the last row of Economy?? That goes for all companies, I guess.
Anyway, my point is, at least with First I know I will be able to sleep and relax. Nowadays, flights are expensive anyway.
For my next flights, I have switched back to Swiss and Emirates First. Business Flights on Qatar between Doha and Vienna do not even offer amenity kits anymore (same as Emirates, but at least they have it in First Class), and it seems to me that service levels used to be way more refined.
Lastly, while bloggers rave about Al Safwa, they now offer only the basic champagne and wines of Business, so clear cost cutting even there.
I am disappointed in Qatar, as you can tell... ;-) End of rant.
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YIANNIS93117 Guest
June 4, 2023, 11:48 am
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Mᵜāz Kalīm Guest
September 25, 2023, 5:57 pm
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1 more replyWHAT A FRIGGIN WHINER YOU ARE!
Are you expecting either of Business or First to provide you with charter service?
If you are paying for your Own Ticket [instead company]QATAR airways Business class and Suites are great.I dont like Caviar!!!
First class Expert here.
I've experience Qatar First class once and wouldn't recommend it. Appart from the cavir, there is nothing special when you compare it with the service on Qsuite.
Nowadays, I fly mostly Japan Airlines, Cathay Pacific and Air France La Premiere (paid ticket only: no points tricks or error fares). These airlines remain the best for First Class service even after COVID
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June 4, 2023, 1:50 pm
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June 4, 2023, 4:43 pm
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3 more repliesBoy I sure did miss your commentary over the years Endre
I disagree. QR business is miles away from proper first class like La Premier, Emirates or Singapore. Different seat, space, food, alcohol, ground service, lounges or limo service. On top of that not all aircrafts have and will have q suite. Not to mention nowadays they still change aircraft type in a very last moment and you might fly in old and awful 777. No, thank you.
Is this the real Endre? You've been MIA, I thought you were banned lol
Oh! The First Class troll is back to the comments section. We missed you!*
* No
People who can afford to fly international first class can also afford to eat caviar whenever 5th want, so I don’t get the obsessing over in-flight caviar service. Sure, it feels fancy to some and kills time, but doesn’t always fit the time of departure or need for sleep.
I wonder what will happen with the Doha first class lounge.
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June 4, 2023, 9:07 am
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June 5, 2023, 12:17 pm
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4 more replies@ Dave -- I'm not sure anyone is obsessing? I'm also not sure I understand the logic of saying that people who can afford caviar on the ground wouldn't enjoy it in the air as something that's included with their ticket price? Surely we can agree that it's possible to differentiate a meal service in first vs. business class, and that some first class passengers may appreciate that, no?
See Lucky's answer below regarding the First Class lounge.
If you don't want the caviar Dave then don't order it. Many people like the caviar service. Being able to afford it on the ground does not diminish the enjoyment of it as part of the flight experience. Actually I pretty much only have caviar now when flying first class because it makes for a more memorable flight experience. Anyone can order it in a restaurant nothing very memorable about that.
I am with you Dave. It seems like a cliché of flying F.
Agree 100% Dave, same with champagne. The quality of food, along with separate first lounge and pnboard service are the mark of first class. Nice to have champagne and caviar but really academic and arbitrary from a review point of view. My personal view is that the Furst class lounge in Doha and booking business class Middle East flights into F is much more useful than a fee long haul planes with F such as...
Agree 100% Dave, same with champagne. The quality of food, along with separate first lounge and pnboard service are the mark of first class. Nice to have champagne and caviar but really academic and arbitrary from a review point of view. My personal view is that the Furst class lounge in Doha and booking business class Middle East flights into F is much more useful than a fee long haul planes with F such as Etihad have. Also, not having dedicated first class lounges and check in at most departure points makes it a little pointless. Emirates is a great example, you may or may not get a dedicated forst class lounge, you may or may not get car service, there may or may not be a shower on board. Don't get me wrong I love Emirates and Etihad and have paid for many J fares out of my own pocket, many on miles and many corporate tickets but I feel Qatar J and the Doha lounge is best all round offering. As it happens I like Tuekish airlines too, just the geographic location make the forst leg too short when flying from Western Europe. Not sure what all my waffling is trying to say, I just responded because I too have heard enough about caviar and champagne.
Hey Be what do you think this means for the future of the Al Safwa lounge?
@ Auspointer -- I don't think there will be any changes there. Qatar Airways still markets the forward cabin on regional flights as first class, and I don't think that will change. Those are most of the people currently accessing the Al Safwa Lounge anyway.