“Getting there can be half the fun!” I think that’s a phrase many in the miles & points world can relate to (and if you can’t relate, I totally get it — feel free to skip this post!).
When it comes to redeeming miles & points for premium cabin travel, I’ve always been sort of obsessed with “maximizing value.” Admittedly the definition of that changes over time.
Back in the day I defined that quite simply: redeeming as few miles as possible for as many hours as possible in the world’s best first class and best business class products. Why fly from Los Angeles to Tokyo if you could fly from Los Angeles to Frankfurt to Bangkok to Tokyo, for example? Or why fly from Los Angeles to London if you could fly from Los Angeles to Dubai to Mauritius to Dubai to London (shoutout to those who remember that trick)? 😉
But hundreds of flights and millions of flown miles later, my impression of the perfect amount of travel time has changed a bit. That’s probably largely because I’m older, and I don’t have the travel stamina I once had.
In this post I thought it would be fun to talk about a topic that some will surely be happy to geek out over — is there an ideal flight length when flying first or business class?
In this post:
Are longer first & business class flights always better?
When you’re planning a premium cabin trip, what’s the marginal enjoyment from extra flying? Is a 16 hour Emirates first class flight twice as fun as an eight hour Emirates first class flight? Is the world’s longest flight (on Singapore Airlines between Singapore and New York) the world’s most fun business class flight?
After more long haul flights in my life than I can count, I’m not sure I agree anymore that longer necessarily equals better. When it comes to enjoying long haul flying, my general perception is as follows:
- The first few hours are always most enjoyable, as you typically have a fantastic meal and are still “fresh”
- Beyond that, the marginal enjoyment diminishes significantly — you might be full, tired, and a bit hungover, and if you’re anything like me, you might not be a great airplane sleeper
- In my experience flights are almost always more fun when you’re starting your vacation rather than heading home
- There’s more marginal enjoyment to be had with each hour for airlines with cool amenities, like bars, showers, etc.; for example, as much as I love Cathay Pacific first class, you’re pretty much confined to your seat (the horror!) 😉
With that in mind, I think I’ve figured out my ideal flight lengths. In other words, beyond these limits I get very little marginal enjoyment out of flights. The perfect first class flight is one where you can both enjoy the experience and arrive well rested… at least in most cases.
Perfect overnight flight length: ~12 hours
To me the perfect overnight flight length is 12 hours. If I really want to enjoy the flight, I typically like to stay awake for the first four hours, at least on an ultra long haul flight. That way I can enjoy a meal service, which takes maybe two hours, and then unwind with a movie or enjoy any other onboard amenities.
I’m not much of a sleeper, though ideally I’d get roughly six hours of sleep (though honestly, that’s way more than I usually get).
And that leaves me with two hours before landing to watch a couple more sitcoms, freshen up, and have a pre-arrival snack.
Most Cathay Pacific flights from the United States to Hong Kong are ~14-15 hours, which is great, but usually the last couple of hours I’m ready for the flight to be over. Not that I’m not enjoying it, but rather that I’m not sure I’m happier onboard than I’d be in a “real” bed in a hotel, or at a “real” restaurant.
Perfect daytime flight length: ~8 hours
This might surprise some people, but I almost think the perfect daytime flight length is seven to eight hours, especially since I usually avoid sleeping on daytime flights. For example, an overnight Emirates flight from New York to Milan? That’s way too short to maximize. A daytime Emirates flight from Milan to New York? That’s perfect.
You can enjoy a nice meal…
Then enjoy whatever onboard amenities there are and watch a movie…
And then have another meal before landing…
You can maximize your libation consumption onboard, and then arrive having had a great flight, even if you didn’t get any rest. And since you (hopefully) land in the afternoon or evening, you won’t have issues with checking into a hotel, and can go to bed at a reasonable hour.
So even if you have an amazing bed in first class, I don’t think maximizing a first class experience even has to include using it.
Bottom line
To 99% of people this probably sounds like a silly topic. But to those of us who actually enjoy the process of flying between places, I think it’s an interesting thing to discuss.
Admittedly there are lots of other factors that play into the “perfect” flight length — whether you’re traveling alone or with friends, how well rested you have to be when you land, exactly what time the flight leaves, whether you’re heading on vacation or returning, etc. But the above is my general philosophy, I suppose. I’m curious to hear how others feel.
If flying a top premium product, what do you think is the perfect flight length? What factors into that decision?
In my perfect world all flights would be 1:30 minutes max but I happen to live in the most imperfect world.
Most people I think would consider the time vs the points or price. Consider that most people would not fly with too many stops because they have a reason to get somewhere compared to reviewing the flights and hotels.
Many make a big deal about Emirates business class but I was not impressed. 2-3-2 for a not cheap business class...
Unsaid but very visible: to have a great flight, fly Emirates.
US bloggers are sellers of credit cards, so they never talk about Emirates (if they have a US credit card it probably doesn't pay them a commission like the others do) so you rarely read about them, but yeah, they're the bomb.
As regards the first class dining experience, for me what really matters is the time of the day. At 2am it is not the time …
I agree, 12 hours is great with dinner and a movie then 7 hours of sleep. Tylenol PM helps a lot! Then a quick breakfast and a clean up before landing. Up to 14 hours is good. But those 15+ hour flights leave me itching to get off the plane.
Of course this is only in C or F. I can't fly Y for more than a few hours due to back problems.
The worst flights are US to Europe red eyes. It'd be fine if they let you lie flat the second you get in your seat an only wake up as they land. But some of these 5pm flights where you eat then have 3.5 hrs to sleep then they turn the lights on. Lame.
I cannot believe the Techies from India that sit in the Business Class Lounge eating & drinking for almost 15 Hrs on a Flight from DXB to SFO! The same techies occupy the C1 Lounge for hours at DFW.
It is those “Techies” who are MAGA …. It is the “Losers” like Eskimo and Co, who are turning the U.S. aviation industry into that of a third world country.
A daytime flight in a premium cabin on the big U.S. 3 would be optimal. JFK/EWR 8am departure arriving LAX at 11am and noon departure arriving at 8pm in the other direction.
Somewhat understandably, I've noticed that with flights out of JFK to Europe, the flight crew seems to be in a rush to complete the service so that everyone can either relax (crew) or sleep (pax) .... Maybe because riding up front as a non-rev is becoming rarer, I appreciate attenuating my wining & dining experience over any other inflight activity, much to the dismay of the crew !
Depends on the airline and if they have catering on-demand- premium experience with only set meal service / limited drinks is less fun.
But JAL First Class? I'll fly as long as I can lol
Ben's 12 hours is very good, but I think ~13-15 hours (eg, Cathay NYC - HKG) might be superior to try to get a decent amount of sleep while enjoying everything they have to offer. I feel a little...
Depends on the airline and if they have catering on-demand- premium experience with only set meal service / limited drinks is less fun.
But JAL First Class? I'll fly as long as I can lol
Ben's 12 hours is very good, but I think ~13-15 hours (eg, Cathay NYC - HKG) might be superior to try to get a decent amount of sleep while enjoying everything they have to offer. I feel a little rushed on the 12 hour JAL route NYC - TYO; either I'm not sleeping enough or I'm not experiencing enough of the menu.
I want enough time to:
* loll about
* eat & drink
* read
* eat & drink
* try to sleep
* eat & drink
* watch a movie
* eat & drink
Best flight of my life, SIN 1st JFK-FRA-SIN on the A380 suites. 22 hrs, didn't want it to end. Haha.
Have done SQ F many times SYD - SIN - FRA - JFK. It takes 30 something hours. But the little stops for a walk around and visit to an F lounge are always enjoyable.
We just had a choice of flying AKL -JFK either eastbound or westbound. We chose Emirates
First class westbound which is double the flight time. We’ll see if that was the right choice.
I agree with all. I take the Qatar Airways flight from LAX to Qatar every 4 weeks. It’s typically 16:20. Being in their business class is the only way this is even possible and is quite enjoyable. For the first 10 hours. The lay quarter is always tough.
I’ll sprinkle in Emirates periodically just to change it up, but the Qatar business class is far superior to the Emirates business class. However Emirates onboard...
I agree with all. I take the Qatar Airways flight from LAX to Qatar every 4 weeks. It’s typically 16:20. Being in their business class is the only way this is even possible and is quite enjoyable. For the first 10 hours. The lay quarter is always tough.
I’ll sprinkle in Emirates periodically just to change it up, but the Qatar business class is far superior to the Emirates business class. However Emirates onboard amenities and niceties are a bit better with the bar, the double decker A380, and sometimes the wine selection.
But, it’s always “enjoyable” on these airlines. As much as 16+ hours in a tube can be enjoyable !
Agree completely! I'm on the West Coast and my East Coast friends try to brag that they're closer to Europe and act like I'm crazy when I tell them I fly overnight, so prefer the distance between CA to Europe for these flights (though on the way back, it's not always the best).
Day time flight:8 hours.
Any other flight 10 hours max.
After 10 hours, I am climbing the walls and ready to open the doors to get off.
I’m like that after about twelve hours. Even in first class I start looking forward to landing.
For me my recent flights from/to MUC via DOH to HKG/ICN/TYO/PVG/PKX etc. are perfect - better than nonstops.
Why?
MUC-DOH I take the afternoon flight, a short 5,5 hrs for a nice dinner on board and a movie or work.
Then 2-3hrs in the Garden or Al Safwa Lounge and around 1-2:30am to Asia.
I get onboard, get the bed done and sleep.
Wake up 1hr before landing + quick breakfast. Arrival...
For me my recent flights from/to MUC via DOH to HKG/ICN/TYO/PVG/PKX etc. are perfect - better than nonstops.
Why?
MUC-DOH I take the afternoon flight, a short 5,5 hrs for a nice dinner on board and a movie or work.
Then 2-3hrs in the Garden or Al Safwa Lounge and around 1-2:30am to Asia.
I get onboard, get the bed done and sleep.
Wake up 1hr before landing + quick breakfast. Arrival in the afternoon - no jet leg.
Inbound the same:
Dinner with friends/colleagues around 8pm, go to airport around 10:30, Lounge. Boarding 1am-ish, sleep.
Arrive in the morning hours in DOH, have a shower and breakfast, fly to MUC, arrive 2pm and go to work. No jet leg
I am a good airplane sleeper.
On a long flight I love being on a Korean/Asiana A380 because no one uses the front lounges upstairs so you kinda have your own "The Residence" suite all to yourself.
Uh.... not unti lnow, that you've 'let the cat outta the bag !'
...lol
These times are about my preferences also. 10h overnight to Europe is just barely too short (Slc). Especially since they depart late afternoon I’m not quite tired to try and sleep until half way though the flight, and usually just as I’m getting truly tired enough to really sleep the lights come on.
Daytime flights same Im only good for one movie and can only read so much so by 8 or so hrs I’m...
These times are about my preferences also. 10h overnight to Europe is just barely too short (Slc). Especially since they depart late afternoon I’m not quite tired to try and sleep until half way though the flight, and usually just as I’m getting truly tired enough to really sleep the lights come on.
Daytime flights same Im only good for one movie and can only read so much so by 8 or so hrs I’m itching to get off. Will try to get a little nap in but I’m lucky if that is more than an hour.
I feel like 14-15 hours is the perfect length. I frequently fly US to Australia and recently did SFO-MEL which clocked in at 15:18. I spent the first 3 hours eating, relaxing and watching TV. Slept for 6 hours, woke up for a mid-flight meal, napped for a few more hours, then woke up again to 2-2.5 hours remaining which is the perfect time to slowly wake up and wait for breakfast. The key thing...
I feel like 14-15 hours is the perfect length. I frequently fly US to Australia and recently did SFO-MEL which clocked in at 15:18. I spent the first 3 hours eating, relaxing and watching TV. Slept for 6 hours, woke up for a mid-flight meal, napped for a few more hours, then woke up again to 2-2.5 hours remaining which is the perfect time to slowly wake up and wait for breakfast. The key thing for me is that last few hours because those short redeyes to Europe from the U.S. is absolutely brutal because you’re jolted awake at the end of it.
Yes! Those Europe arrivals from the U.S. are always a jolt, regardless of class and of arrival time. You just have to soldier through it, knowing better things lay ahead.
I always snigger when someone on their 30s says “they don’t have the stamina for lots of travel any more….” Wait until you go passed 50, son.
These past few weeks I have taken the EK DXB-IAH 16 hour daytime slog in F. Even in F it was absolutely brutal after around 9 hours. As well I took the LAX-MEL 16 hour which was overnight and yet even in Polaris felt totally fine as I got on board and slept for the first nine hours. I would say the assessment provided in this post is pretty aligned with most people.
As for most aviators, my best flights are when I am at the controls.
When flying commercial, alone, anything will do.
When flying with my ‘dearly beloved’ (who hates flying, even in F) the shorter the better.
However, some of my most heart rendering flights, like Daniel B mentioned, where when returning home, in my case from operations (or a difficult SAR flight) …. looking forward to family reunions after a torrid...
As for most aviators, my best flights are when I am at the controls.
When flying commercial, alone, anything will do.
When flying with my ‘dearly beloved’ (who hates flying, even in F) the shorter the better.
However, some of my most heart rendering flights, like Daniel B mentioned, where when returning home, in my case from operations (or a difficult SAR flight) …. looking forward to family reunions after a torrid time away. Not forgetting the joy of seeing and being with my dogs again.
Loser
My-oh-my Eskimo, out of the closet and using your long standing trolling login. Have you forgotten which ‘john’ account to use?
One is so flattered to be stalked by this websites number one troll, thank you darlink …. Xxxxx
Under normal circumstances I would love to fly LAX-SFO in first on LH, especially when it’s operated by a 747-8. But sadly, as we know, these are not normal circumstances.
LAX-SFO?
Maybe edit your post
Believe it or not ... Northwest Orient had 747 'sheduled' LAX-SFO before its transpacific trek !'ve taken A TWA L-1011 on the same routing, a DL l-1011 on an even shorter LAX-SAN segment and sadly did not have the pleasure of PSA's short-lived L-1011 experiment intra-California ...,
For me, flying home is the best, because of the joy of having successfully completed my vacation.
I disagree with all the comments so farad Ben (sorry). Nearly everything, except take off and landing can be experienced on land, such as restaurants and showers.
The best length is about 2 hours. 1 hour and cars or trains compete.
If a plane can travel JFK-LHR in 3 hours, do it. I would rather fly that flight (hopefully with IFE but even not) and an ordinary seat rather than 8 hours, red eye,...
I disagree with all the comments so farad Ben (sorry). Nearly everything, except take off and landing can be experienced on land, such as restaurants and showers.
The best length is about 2 hours. 1 hour and cars or trains compete.
If a plane can travel JFK-LHR in 3 hours, do it. I would rather fly that flight (hopefully with IFE but even not) and an ordinary seat rather than 8 hours, red eye, lie flat, and door.
3 hours is enough for a meal. No need to watch all of the IFE because that might take 5 to 30 hours, depending on your interests.
@Derek,
Preach!
On EK A380 First from SFO to DXB I was ready to wrap up by hour 13 or so. LH 748 First from MEX to FRA was just about perfect at 10 or so hours. VS J from LHR to ATL was fine at around 8 hours.
Hmmm. Maybe I shouldn't be in such a rush to pay 215,000 Alaska miles for a 14.5 hour SEA-DOH Qatar J flight next fall. Especially since I'm neither starting in Seattle, nor ending in Doha.
8 is too short for me because I don't have time to get hungry again :) 11-13 hours is my sweet spot. First three hours and the last two hours for the catering, and six hours for one movie, power nap, and some staring out of the window in between.
I only recently started flying longhaul again after 11 years of shorthaul only and I was suprised that even flights like IST-PTY or CDG-EZE were quite manageable and I never felt too bored or tired.
8 hours to get a full night sleep
2 1/2 hours for each meal service along with a snack in between
3 hours or so to get a full movie in if you'd like
After that you can probably just walk around
So I agree that 14 hours is just about right so that's about average for CXs flights from the East Coast as well as from LAX westbound.
I'm guessing SQ, NZ and QFs non-stop to JFK would be driving someone nuts past the 14 hour mark.
Before retirement I flew a bazillion times domestic. Only international has been a few personal/family/vacations to Central America and Europe, in economy and premium economy. Very much looking forward to our A350 Business CX trip to SE Asia in a year. Will squeeze all we can out of that BOS-HKG 15 1/2 hour flight.
Perfect overnight - 9 hours biz to sleep. 11 first (to also eat).
Perfect daytime - 0 hours biz (rather be doing something else). 4 first.
Perfect overnight - 9 hours biz to sleep. 11 first (to also eat).
Perfect daytime - 0 hours biz (rather be doing something else). 4 first.
11-14h and, yes, 12 is probably the "sweet spot". Some of my best F flights have been LAX-FRA (11h), DOH-SYD (14h), and PER-DOH (11h).
Largely agree. By hour 14 there’s nothing left that you haven’t already done.