“Getting there can be half the fun!” I think that’s a phrase many in the miles & points world can relate to (and if you can’t relate, I totally get it — feel free to skip this post!).
When it comes to redeeming miles & points for premium cabin travel, I’ve always been sort of obsessed with “maximizing value.” Admittedly the definition of that changes over time.
Back in the day I defined that quite simply: redeeming as few miles as possible for as many hours as possible in the world’s best first class and best business class products. Why fly from Los Angeles to Tokyo if you could fly from Los Angeles to Frankfurt to Bangkok to Tokyo, for example? 😉
But hundreds of flights and millions of flown miles later, my impression of the perfect amount of travel time has changed a bit. That’s probably largely because I’m older, and I don’t have the travel stamina I once had.
In this post I thought it would be fun to talk about a topic that some will surely be happy to geek out over — is there an ideal flight length when flying first or business class?
In this post:
Are longer first & business class flights always better?
When you’re planning a premium cabin trip, what’s the marginal enjoyment from extra flying? Is a 16 hour Emirates first class flight twice as fun as an eight hour Emirates first class flight? Is the world’s longest flight (on Singapore Airlines between Singapore and New York) the world’s most fun business class flight?
After more long haul flights in my life than I can count, I’m not sure I agree anymore that longer necessarily equals better. When it comes to enjoying long haul flying, my general perception is as follows:
- The first few hours are always most enjoyable, as you typically have a fantastic meal and are still “fresh”
- Beyond that, the marginal enjoyment diminishes significantly — you might be full, tired, and a bit hungover, and if you’re anything like me, you might not be a great airplane sleeper
- In my experience flights are almost always more fun when you’re starting your vacation rather than heading home
- There’s more marginal enjoyment to be had with each hour for airlines with cool amenities, like bars, showers, etc.; for example, as much as I love Cathay Pacific first class, you’re pretty much confined to your seat (the horror!) 😉
With that in mind, I think I’ve figured out my ideal flight lengths. In other words, beyond these limits I get very little marginal enjoyment out of flights. The perfect first class flight is one where you can both enjoy the experience and arrive well rested… at least in most cases.
Perfect overnight flight length: ~12 hours
To me the perfect overnight flight length is 12 hours. If I really want to enjoy the flight, I typically like to stay awake for the first four hours, at least on an ultra long haul flight. That way I can enjoy a meal service, which takes maybe two hours, and then unwind with a movie or enjoy any other onboard amenities.
I’m not much of a sleeper, though ideally I’d get roughly six hours of sleep (though honestly, that’s way more than I usually get).
And that leaves me with two hours before landing to watch a couple more sitcoms, freshen up, and have a pre-arrival snack.
Most Cathay Pacific flights from the United States to Hong Kong are ~14-15 hours (not that I’ve taken many of those lately!), which is great, but usually the last couple of hours I’m ready for the flight to be over. Not that I’m not enjoying it, but rather that I’m not sure I’m happier onboard than I’d be in a “real” bed in a hotel, or at a “real” restaurant.
Perfect daytime flight length: ~8 hours
This might surprise some people, but I almost think the perfect daytime flight length is seven to eight hours, especially since I usually avoid sleeping on daytime flights. For example, an overnight Emirates flight from New York to Milan? That’s way too short to maximize. A daytime Emirates flight from Milan to New York? That’s perfect.
You can enjoy a nice meal…
Then enjoy whatever onboard amenities there are and watch a movie…
And then have another meal before landing…
You can maximize your libation consumption onboard, and then arrive having had a great flight, even if you didn’t get any rest. And since you (hopefully) land in the afternoon or evening, you won’t have issues with checking into a hotel, and can go to bed at a reasonable hour.
So even if you have an amazing bed in first class, I don’t think maximizing a first class experience even has to include using it.
Bottom line
To 99% of people this probably sounds like a silly topic. But to those of us who actually enjoy the process of flying between places, I think it’s an interesting thing to discuss.
Admittedly there are lots of other factors that play into the “perfect” flight length — whether you’re traveling alone or with friends, how well rested you have to be when you land, exactly what time the flight leaves, whether you’re heading on vacation or returning, etc. But the above is my general philosophy, I suppose. I’m curious to hear how others feel.
If flying a top premium product, what do you think is the perfect flight length? What factors into that decision?
Perfect flight length on an overnight long-haul flight in Business is indeed 12 hours. A couple of meals and movies and 7 hours of sleep…perfect!
Long enough to have a great meal, champagne and 8 hours sleep. 15 hours is good if hard and soft ok (I'm 80 but still love it). Bad flight LH SFO-MUN in JAN this year with old Y and a malfunctioning bed.
Worst was MLE-SEA on Qatar where they cancelled my Q suite. Wife got Q and great flight. I got 2nd last row for 16 hours. Qatar screwed up a seat change and...
Long enough to have a great meal, champagne and 8 hours sleep. 15 hours is good if hard and soft ok (I'm 80 but still love it). Bad flight LH SFO-MUN in JAN this year with old Y and a malfunctioning bed.
Worst was MLE-SEA on Qatar where they cancelled my Q suite. Wife got Q and great flight. I got 2nd last row for 16 hours. Qatar screwed up a seat change and didn't renew my ticket. Had to buy last minute Y (covid test would expire if I didn't fly). Qatar still has not compensated.
For me it entirely depends on the number of time zones being crossed. Europe - South Africa is best. So a long flight is (vaguely) enjoyable. East bound flight - LAX to Europe, totally horrid and to be avoided!
I'd say 12 hours is the minimum length to fully enjoy a J or F flight. I want 7 hours of sleep, meal services take 3-4 hours, and I don't want to lie down immediately after meal #1.
Count me in the "as long as possible" camp so long as there's good hard and soft product.
12 hours is the perfect flight length when traveling First or Business with an early evening departure. You get to do the full meal service while watching a movie, sleep for 7 hours, then wake up for the next meal service and watch another movie, sitcoms or documentary… perfect!
I sleep well on planes, so I like night flights like MIA-DOH. I have dinner in the lounge, then after boarding, while the plane is on the ground, I change into my PJ's. When the wheels go up, I put in the earplugs and sleep mask, lie flat & go to sleep. I routinely sleep at least 3-4 hours. Once, on the QF DFW-SYD flight, I slept 9 hours--my bladder was about to burst when I woke up.
For me, the ideal long flight is not measured by hours but by an overnight stop at an airport with a good hotel(s) nearby. Like Ben, I find it difficult to sleep on a plane. But give me a nice hotel bed, and the next morning, I'm good to go.
Luckily for me, this scenario often happens when I'm flying west. I live on the Big Island of Hawaii, and most direct flights to KOA...
For me, the ideal long flight is not measured by hours but by an overnight stop at an airport with a good hotel(s) nearby. Like Ben, I find it difficult to sleep on a plane. But give me a nice hotel bed, and the next morning, I'm good to go.
Luckily for me, this scenario often happens when I'm flying west. I live on the Big Island of Hawaii, and most direct flights to KOA from the mainland West Coast leave in the morning. So, when I'm flying from, say, Europe, I'll fly into LAX and stay at the Hyatt Regency Los Angeles International Airport (12,000 Hyatt Points), which you can easily walk to from the airport or take a shuttle. The next day, I'm off to home.
Flying from a big city on the East Coast of the US, like NYC or BOS, there are direct flights to Honolulu and then a quick hop over to Kona. So, for those flights, 10 to 12 hours would be my ideal flight time.
I'm with you. I feel fortunate to live on the West Coast as the flights to Europe are just the right length. sometimes just a bit too short.
I recently flew Polaris on a 17h flight from DEL-EWR. I ate, slept a long time and then was bored. The poor FA literally looked like zombies. I took a walk to the back of the plane and it was like going into the hold of...
I'm with you. I feel fortunate to live on the West Coast as the flights to Europe are just the right length. sometimes just a bit too short.
I recently flew Polaris on a 17h flight from DEL-EWR. I ate, slept a long time and then was bored. The poor FA literally looked like zombies. I took a walk to the back of the plane and it was like going into the hold of a slave ship. Nobody was asleep, people pacing the aisles comforting crying babies or just wandering aimlessly in the endless dark.
For me, it's not the flights that are the thing to be maximized, it's the lounges on layovers. I'll arrive 2 hours earlier than I need for a flight out of Terminal 3 at Heathrow to enjoy the Cathay Pacific First lounge. A couple of extra hours layover for the Al Safwa First Class lounge in Doha? Count me in. The flights themselves, regardless of the airline and cabin, eventually get feeling cramped and closed...
For me, it's not the flights that are the thing to be maximized, it's the lounges on layovers. I'll arrive 2 hours earlier than I need for a flight out of Terminal 3 at Heathrow to enjoy the Cathay Pacific First lounge. A couple of extra hours layover for the Al Safwa First Class lounge in Doha? Count me in. The flights themselves, regardless of the airline and cabin, eventually get feeling cramped and closed in. Give me a nice glass of champagne and a long layover anytime.
Great comment/observation.
Air France La Première fans (*raises hand*) will agree with you wholeheartedly in terms of lounges - specifically, the CDG lounge. While I'm personally not looking for an overly long layover, there are many who do.
For me, I totally agree with the 12 night and 8 day. I can go longer at night but over 10 daytime is too much. Obviously a personal opinion that probably varies widely.
I like 10-12, day or night. Plenty of time to enjoy the offerings and get some sleep. Yes, even on a day flight. Over 13 is getting long, and over 15 is really long, no matter how comfortable the seat or how good the food and drink.
Developments in hypersonic flight will ultimately reduce many long-haul routes to two hours and the longest to three hours. This will precipitate a rethink in cabin and seat design. The KrysSuite, the Apartment, and even more mundane first class seats might become a thing of the past.
I've wondered about this too, but like even the Boom plane (at least the 1.0 version) isn't going to be able to take you from the west coast to Asia without stopping in Alaska for gas, so it seems like it'll be, at best, 1.5x faster than a regular plane. With Wi-fi and beds making conventional flying time into productive time, I can't imagine many businesses will spring for the extra speed.
Hypersonic (like...
I've wondered about this too, but like even the Boom plane (at least the 1.0 version) isn't going to be able to take you from the west coast to Asia without stopping in Alaska for gas, so it seems like it'll be, at best, 1.5x faster than a regular plane. With Wi-fi and beds making conventional flying time into productive time, I can't imagine many businesses will spring for the extra speed.
Hypersonic (like Mach 5+) would definitely be a game-changer, but I still wonder how many companies would pay the extra cash for anyone but the C-suite...
Boom is a dud. Boom is low supersonic. Operationally, it will offer little time savings. And, I doubt it will prove financially attractive to the airlines.
People have been saying that since the 1960s and 1970s. I'm 32. I doubt it will ever happen in my lifetime.
There's no point to hypersonic research/spend at this point. The military already has the ability to teleport aircraft like they did with MH 370. Whenever that tech finally goes public, that's how we'll travel.
"Teleport aircraft"? Say what now?
Must be the chemtrails in his brain.
Overnight is 10-12. Perfect to eat then sleep.
Daytime perfect is 0 hours. The idea of being in a premium class may get your serotonin pumping, but if someone gave you an Emirates first seat as a hotel room you’d be pissed.
I have to agree with you wholeheartedly when it comes to USA -> Europe flights. While I understand why the airlines usually schedule overnight flights on the eastbound, frankly I don't like them. There isn't enough time to think about getting much (if any) sleep and while you get the better part of a day upon arrival, you're too destroyed to enjoy any of it. Having taken some daytime flights out of BOS to LHR,...
I have to agree with you wholeheartedly when it comes to USA -> Europe flights. While I understand why the airlines usually schedule overnight flights on the eastbound, frankly I don't like them. There isn't enough time to think about getting much (if any) sleep and while you get the better part of a day upon arrival, you're too destroyed to enjoy any of it. Having taken some daytime flights out of BOS to LHR, I have to tell you that it's better as far as jetlag is concerned. Yes, you get in late but there was time to check in to your hotel, walk over to the pub and enjoy a pint just before closing.
I wish there were more daytime flights to Europe from the east coast. I would love nothing more than to have the scenario that you describe.
@stogieguy7: I did my first daytime to LHR from BOS in J last month. It was AMAZING how much better I felt, and I believe I acclimated to the time change much better than on the usual redeyes most of us usually take across the Atlantic from the US. LOVED it!
Agree. My personal favorite is Air France business SFO/LAX/SEA to CDG leaving around 7pm. Have a nice dinner and watch a movie, then sleep for 4-6 hours in a layflat with enough foot room. Wake up in Europe, check into hotel on arrival, have dinner, go to sleep, and be relatively on the new time zone quickly
Flying North>South on a similar time zone is even easier. eg. LHR to CPT is 11 hours overnight and there's no jetlag when you land.
I'm a sleeper so 12 to 14 hours hits right for me.
Flying Saudia First class for 12 hours soon and I’m not particularly excited.
Not that it’s a bad product, it’s just that the novelty wears out over time and you’re left with the need to kill time.
12 hours without wine would be miserable for me. Hopefully, you're departing from outside the kingdom where you can get drunk before the flight in a lounge or smuggle on a mini bottle of booze.
I’m able to get through half a day without a drink, but that’s just me.
My ideal time is 12 to 14 hours. Like a nonstop from ORD to DEL. You have your meal, watch a movie, go to sleep at your normal sleeping hour and wake ip with full complement on sleep. Than the remaining 2-3 hours go by as you go through your second meal.
Daytime ideal is 2 to 3 hours.
Manny makes a good point: "go to sleep at your normal sleeping hour" is the important bit. If like me you never nap, then trying to catch a few hours of sleep at 3pm in a plane is very difficult and I just read/watch a(nother) film....so the time just drags anyway.
The shorter the flight the better. Take it from someone flying to Asia and Europe for North America about 7 times a year in premium cabin for work. I stopped caring about amenities long ago - honestly there is little difference between AA business class or Singapore Business class. All that matters is having a low flat bed. Food will range from mediocre to fairly good and these days drinks in business class are all...
The shorter the flight the better. Take it from someone flying to Asia and Europe for North America about 7 times a year in premium cabin for work. I stopped caring about amenities long ago - honestly there is little difference between AA business class or Singapore Business class. All that matters is having a low flat bed. Food will range from mediocre to fairly good and these days drinks in business class are all mediocre. Not worth going out of the way to fly airlines one stop vs nonstop anymore. But that’s just me.
Of course you don't care you're flying for work, it's much different when your flying for a vacation and you actually care about enjoying the flight.
If you're flying for work, of course it gets ordinary and miserable.
100% with you, and these are in-the air hours, so a bit longer block times. But "overnight" depends on the departure time: if departure is after midnight, then a bit shorter is fine; if it's late afternoon, then longer is just as fine.
I always assume it will take 90 minutes from departure for the post-departure meal to be served and ate. I also always assume lights will be turned on and pre-landing meal will be served around 90 minutes before landing. So, if I'm supposed to sleep, I want a flight of at least 10 nights. That should give me at least 7 hours of sleep, assuming I'm in business-class.
10 hours *
For business class: 6-10 hours
For first class: 8-16 hours
Europe to US West coast Works for me
-Enjoy a good long meal (lunch) service
-Marvel at the sights of Greenland
-Sleep for a couple of hours
-Second meal service
Arrival
After years of flying my ideal flight time is 8-10hours any longer and ideally I like to break the journey up and do a stopover.
Lucky, this isn't a "silly topic" at all.
Like you, I'm generally a bad sleeper on planes, so I avoid overnight flights as much as possible in favour of daytime flights. My ideal flight length, after years of 'experimenting' is about 9 hours. Those flights I really enjoy to the max when flying business class.
Second best are flights up to 14 hours, which is my maximum tolerance, even when flying first class. I...
Lucky, this isn't a "silly topic" at all.
Like you, I'm generally a bad sleeper on planes, so I avoid overnight flights as much as possible in favour of daytime flights. My ideal flight length, after years of 'experimenting' is about 9 hours. Those flights I really enjoy to the max when flying business class.
Second best are flights up to 14 hours, which is my maximum tolerance, even when flying first class. I still enjoy it, of course. But that's mostly the first 9 - 12 hours. Anything beyond 14 hours and I find myself wishing for the flight to end.
I'll never do those 16, or 18 or 20 hour flights. Far too long to be enjoyable, even in business or first class,
Agreed, because at the end of the day, no matter how comfortable or fun it is, you are just sitting in a seat for the vast majority of the time. I can only look at screen for so long, and I'm not a good sleeper on planes, so even on an amazing flight I'm always ready to just get to the destination.
I just flew Lufthansa First Class on Sunday from Frankfurt to Washington. A few months ago it was Air France First from Paris to DC. Both flights were 8-9 hours. Perfect
The perfect premium economy flight length is about 6 hours – just long enough for them to give you an amenity kit, "full bedding" and a full longhaul meal, but you wouldn't sleep beyond that anyway.
Premium classes in the airline industry are only Business and First.