Hello from Asia, as I’m now well into my review trip to South Korea and Japan! I just flew Korean Air’s Boeing 787-10 business class, on the 11 hour flight from Vancouver (YVR) to Seoul Incheon (ICN).
I was incredibly excited about this flight. Not only is the 787-10 a new jet for Korean Air, but it also features the carrier’s brand new business class, known as Prestige Suites 2.0. My hope was that this new business class would take Korean Air to the next level, and I wondered if this might just be one of the world’s best business class products.
While the flight was solid, unfortunately the experience didn’t really “wow” in the way I was hoping (for Korean Air’s sake). There’s a lot to like about this product, and a lot of incremental improvements, but it’s still not quite there. With that in mind, I wanted to share some initial thoughts on the experience, and then soon I’ll have a full trip report.
In this post:
Korean Air’s 787-10 business class is sleek, but…
Korean Air’s 787-10 business class product takes up the entire space between doors one and two. The cabin boasts 36 seats, spread across nine rows, in a 1-2-1 staggered configuration.
Korean Air’s new business class is the Collins Aerospace Horizon seat. Aeroflot was the launch customer for this product. However, due to trade embargoes, these planes now fly for Turkish Airlines and Air India as well. So Korean Air is only the second airline to purpose-order this product, and it’s the first airline to install this on a Boeing jet.
There’s a lot to love about this cabin. It’s sleek, and features updated branding, which is much less offensive than Korean Air’s old obsession with powder blue, in my opinion.
Even beyond the more neutral tones, I loved the finishes, which are unique. I was in one of the “true” window seats, which I find to be coziest, in terms of being able to get comfortable close to the fuselage. The seat transforms into a 78″ bed, with walls that are 52″ high.
The seat’s tech is phenomenal, from wireless charging, to 60W USB-C outlets, to bluetooth audio. Yes, this seat has all the modern bells and whistles.
You know what the seat doesn’t have, though? A door. Well, I mean, the seat does have a door, but for some reason the doors can’t be used. After takeoff, the suite doors remained locked, so I asked the flight attendant when they’d be unlocked. Her response? “It’s not available, but maybe next year.”
Sorry, but huh? Has the airline just not gotten the doors certified by regulators in South Korea, or…? I suppose this is the first purpose-built business class product to have doors in the country, so I wonder if that’s what’s going on? Regardless, for the time being, Korean Air’s new business class has doors, but you can’t use them. That’s very JetBlue of them.
Korean Air also doesn’t have individual air nozzles on its wide body jets, which is far too common on Asian carriers. The cabin was kept at a warm temperature, and the high partitions around the seat (even without the doors) didn’t help with airflow while trying to sleep.
I’m also not a fan of the 787 in general, at least compared to the A350, and in particular, the dimming windows. For example, below is a picture of what my view was for most of the flight, even with the windows fully dimmed. That certainly didn’t help with the warmth situation.
Speaking of sleeping (and the bed), I found the footwell to be a good size, as I could move my (size 12) feet in every direction without bumping into anything, so that was better than expected.
However, the seat as such felt rather narrow in bed mode. That’s probably in part because there are armrests on each side that can’t be lowered, and it really makes the sleeping surface quite narrow. While turning around while trying to sleep, I kept bumping into the armrests.
Unfortunately Korean Air’s bedding doesn’t help much either. The airline doesn’t have any mattress pads, but instead has a decent pillow, plus a thick, almost wool-like blanket (which is super warm). I feel like the airline could do much better there, with a minimal investment.
I’m not trying to give the airline a hard time here, but when we’re talking about a brand new business class product, the details matter.
Korean Air’s entertainment & Wi-Fi improved greatly
I have to give Korean Air credit for the huge improvements it has made to its inflight entertainment. For one, the 787-10 business class seats have gorgeous 23.8″ ultra high definition entertainment monitors. These are among the best resolution screens you’ll find in business class, so that’s great.
Also, admittedly I haven’t flown Korean Air in a long time, but I feel like the entertainment selection has been greatly expanded,. There was a solid selection of movies and TV shows, so you should find something to entertain you for a long haul flight, without getting bored. That’s quite a contrast to my memories from past Korean Air flights.
Speaking of staying entertained, Korean Air finally has introduced Wi-Fi, which is long overdue. A plan for the entire flight cost $20.95, which I found to be quite reasonable, given the lack of data caps. The issue, though, was that the Wi-Fi was excruciatingly slow, to the point that it barely functioned.
Korean Air offers Viasat Wi-Fi, which is ordinarily great. The catch is that Viasat doesn’t yet have Ku-band Wi-Fi over the Pacific. That should change eventually, but for the time being, expect slow Wi-Fi.
Korean Air’s business class food is reasonably good
On this Korean Air flight (departing in the afternoon and arriving the following evening), dinner was served after takeoff, and then another dinner-like meal was served before landing. If you ask me, Korean Air’s food is decent, but isn’t going to win any awards.
Service began with drinks and a canapé comprised of cream cheese rolled in zucchini and eggplant. I had a glass of champagne (not a particularly generous pour!), and currently Korean Air is serving Duval Leroy Blanc de Blancs Brut.
The starter consisted of seared tuna with sesame dressing, regardless of whether one chose the Western or Korean option. This was delicious, but then again, I’m a tuna fan. I switched to a glass of riesling, in hopes of the lack of bubbles making for a more generous pour. It was a great success. 😉
For the main course I selected the bibimbap, which was delicious. For better or worse, this seems to always be the Korean option on long haul Korean Air flight, and I feel like it hasn’t changed in a very long time.
Next up there was a trolley with fruit and cheese, and I was offered one or both. I selected both, for the pictures, of course. 😉
Lastly, there was the choice of raspberry mousse cake or ice cream, and I selected the latter.
It was a pretty solid meal, all things considered…
Korean’s business class service is assembly line-esque
The crew on this flight was friendly, though I’ve gotta say, I’m not at all a fan of Korean Air’s service flow. Airlines take all kinds of different approaches to delivering business class service, and I don’t think there’s one right or wrong approach to take.
However, in the case of Korean Air, I’ve always felt like I was just part of an assembly line during the business class service. Every service interaction happens with the crew rolling a cart down the aisle, and with them having a specific objective.
The service just feels really reactive rather than proactive. Let me be very clear, that wasn’t specific to this crew, but rather that’s just Korean Air’s service flow, and it matches all of my past experiences as well. So whether it’s a drink refill, or them removing plastic wrapping from your seat, or removing all the dishes you’ve finished, stuff only happens if you specifically ask for it, or if it’s where they are in their service flow.
For a region known for airlines with incredible service (with world class airlines both to the north and south), I just feel like Korean Air falls short a bit. It’s such a contrast to Singapore Airlines, where the crews ooze with personality, anticipate every need, memorize the names of passengers, etc.
Where I rank Korean Air business class
Let me of course acknowledge that I’m lucky to fly business class at all, so I’m not meaning to nitpick. However, I (in part) review airlines for a living, and that includes sharing the positives and negatives. I can’t simply review every airline and say “OMG I HAD A FLAT BED IT WAS AMAZING!”
With that in mind, I was wondering if Korean Air’s new business class would put the carrier in the same league as the top airlines in the region. While I very much like the positive changes at Korean Air, from the Wi-Fi, to the improved entertainment, to the branding modernization, I personally still rank it as a (high) second tier Asian carrier.
In business class, I’d still choose carriers like All Nippon Airways, EVA Air, Japan Airlines, Singapore Airlines, Starlux Airlines, etc., over Korean Air. Now, that’s not to say you shouldn’t fly the airline — if the schedule or value is good, it’s a great experience, and I’d gladly fly with the airline again. I’m just saying that this doesn’t suddenly rank in my list of the top 10 business class products in the world.
Honestly, then again, most Asian carriers have the same issues with cabin temperature, so maybe the moral of the story is that if we care about cabin temperature, we should just fly US airlines and suffer through the service? I dunno!
Bottom line
I had the chance to fly Korean Air’s new Boeing 787-10 business class. This is a new jet for the airline, and it also has a new business class seat, along with updated branding, Wi-Fi, and expanded entertainment.
There’s a lot I liked about the Korean Air business class experience, though there were also a few areas where the flight fell short. Some things are easy enough to fix (like better bedding), while other things are harder to fix (warm cabins and a lack of individual air nozzles).
I’d say Korean Air’s new business class is solid, though come in with reasonable expectations, as there are some areas for improvement.
What do you make of Korean Air’s new 787-10 business class?
Comparing the 787 to the a350 is a fallacy. The a350 competes directly with the 777. Maybe compare 787 to a330 neo.
The 7810 competes with the 359; the 10 is more efficient on shorter routes. The 789 competes with the A339 and replaces the 763ER. The 789 is actually closer in passenger capacity to the A343 rather than the 359.
Here's a handy tool: https://www.aviatorjoe.net/go/compare/
The B787 is most certainly a competitor to the A350 and vice versa. Boeing designed the 787 as a more capable and larger 767 replacement that was intended to fit 'under" the 777 but the 787, like the A350 is a carbon fiber aircraft and the two are and will be the only two widebody majority carbon fiber widebodies with the associated cost benefits.
You presumably don't like Ben's discussion of the 787's width but...
The B787 is most certainly a competitor to the A350 and vice versa. Boeing designed the 787 as a more capable and larger 767 replacement that was intended to fit 'under" the 777 but the 787, like the A350 is a carbon fiber aircraft and the two are and will be the only two widebody majority carbon fiber widebodies with the associated cost benefits.
You presumably don't like Ben's discussion of the 787's width but he is accurate. The 787 is narrower than the A350 and the 777X when it enters service and of course narrower than older generation aircraft like the A380 and B747.
The point is whether Ben's opinions about the width of the fuselage matter esp. relative to the width of business class seats and I would argue they don't. Airbus and Boeing both know what each airframe can do and the width of business class seats is very far down the list.
And the problem w/ Ben's criticism of the 787's width is that he also talks about the desire for doors in business class. It is very difficult to put doors on a business class seat unless the passenger lies down parallel to the fuselage; UA managed to get a little extra width with Polaris by angling the passenger - but that also makes it very hard if not impossible to put a door on Polaris.
There is and has to be prioritization of what matters.
The 787 is a capable aircraft and, despite Boeing's issues may still end up as the most widely sold widebody.
There are tradeoffs and the width of the 787 business class seat is one of the down sides.
To think that real passengers will not fly an aircraft because of an inch or two less width in a business class seat is just not realistic.
Interesting. Inferior soft product (bedding) to Delta but comparable food (same champagne as Delta). The hard product (the seat) is equivalent to Delta, at least once the doors are operational.
So, most Delta customers won't fly Korean and say, "Wow. This is better than Delta." By contrast, many, if not most, customers who fly Air France business-class and maybe even Virgin Atlantic would say, "Wow. This is better than Delta."
Unless they fly Virgin Atlantic's 787-9s and A330ceos. They'll definitely think it's worse.
Random, hope your family is out of harm's way given the hurricane hurtling towards Florida
This was almost the same as what I expected. After reading some journals and talks about KAL written by Koreans, it seems like KAL is now trying to be as cost effective as possible (known in Korean as 가성비 (gaseongbi)).
Since shortly before the COVID-19 Pandemic, the airline has been employing a professional entrepreneur, instead of their traditional practice, which was appointing someone from the owner's family - obviously, the former would care more...
This was almost the same as what I expected. After reading some journals and talks about KAL written by Koreans, it seems like KAL is now trying to be as cost effective as possible (known in Korean as 가성비 (gaseongbi)).
Since shortly before the COVID-19 Pandemic, the airline has been employing a professional entrepreneur, instead of their traditional practice, which was appointing someone from the owner's family - obviously, the former would care more about the financial performances than the latter would, while it'd be the other way around when it comes to the level of service (or maybe not...).
I've been flying KAL for a while (once or twice a year in general), and it felt like at least one thing is gone compared to the last time I flew the airline. Also, KAL crew are always friendly and attentive, but on the other hand, it feels like the airline is trying to cover up its lacking-a-bit service by the friendliness and attentiveness of crew, which is sad.
Anyways, I'm still excited to read the full review, and also KAL A321neo business class first sight. Thanks for sharing, Ben.
I hope not as it feels like they've always been a bit corner-cutter even by prior standards. Ex-USA flights can be 14hrs+ and they only on-demand food in J is chips/crisps, cookies, or pot ramen; all low-cost items. Their lounges in ICN have extremely limited food options and utilitarian furnishings even by Skyteam standards and especially compared to competition in Asia. Really not great that priority pass lounges serve far better food than a carrier...
I hope not as it feels like they've always been a bit corner-cutter even by prior standards. Ex-USA flights can be 14hrs+ and they only on-demand food in J is chips/crisps, cookies, or pot ramen; all low-cost items. Their lounges in ICN have extremely limited food options and utilitarian furnishings even by Skyteam standards and especially compared to competition in Asia. Really not great that priority pass lounges serve far better food than a carrier in their own hub airport. Also, sometimes have sent J passengers to lesser lounges then they could in outstations.
Always like the Apex suites and the great crew, even if service is very systematic (the headache I gave them one flight asking for just the main and as soon as they can as I wanted to sleep), but everything else has always felt cost-conscious.
If SQ can make record profit while still being SQ, cost cutting is a poor excuse for the soft service gap. The trick is knowing where to cut, not a blanket approach.
Ben, I remember reading last summer something along the lines of Korean Air having trouble certifying those seats, specifically on the B787-10, because of the fact the armrest could not be lowered and this somehow violated some rule about the door being closed in-flight. I think it was on Live And Let's Fly, though I can't be sure. Maybe that explains the door staying open throughout your flight.
Yeah, there has been some certificate issues with the new business class seats. That's also one of the reasons why their B78X deliveries have been (or still is) being delayed, besides the 787 QC issues.
“with world class airlines both to the north and south”
——would love to see a review trip to North Korea!
There have been a couple of reviews about North Korea's Air Koryo, not on this blog but from the usual suspects who post on Facebook. The flight itself seems "colorful", but I do not have the slightest inclination to go there.
The cultural differences in each country on the ground also play a role in how service is both conducted and perceived. Korea has more of a “yo waiter!” with a call button vibe which I find comes out in the cabin. Taiwan is more proactive similar to the US with waiters roaming around a lot more frequently and being anticipatory. Japan is somewhere in between. Meanwhile the US wait staff introduce themselves by name and...
The cultural differences in each country on the ground also play a role in how service is both conducted and perceived. Korea has more of a “yo waiter!” with a call button vibe which I find comes out in the cabin. Taiwan is more proactive similar to the US with waiters roaming around a lot more frequently and being anticipatory. Japan is somewhere in between. Meanwhile the US wait staff introduce themselves by name and orbit working for that tip which establishes the expectation.
In the air I found Korean Air to be as you said but also very quick and consistent to respond to the call button. The culture gap of using the button for basic service will feel unnatural and misaligned for someone from the US where it gets an “emergency only” feel. Meanwhile having someone orbiting who knows your name and is monitoring your habits and personal space closely can feel creepy.
Maybe it's just that when you have a nearly-state-owned carrier (or a company staffed by people of such a history), the level of service just will not be the same as the best alternatives.
while the 787-10 has the range to do the PNW to ICN, the aircraft is primarily a regional Asia aircraft - so up and down the Pacific Rim.
The 787 is just a narrower aircraft than the A350 so the seat is going to be narrower.
The reality is that KE has the largest transpacific system among Asian airlines so, like UA, it isn't realistically expected for it to be the best.
@ Tim Dunn -- How do you reckon it's primarily a regional aircraft? KE has scheduled this plane to fly to SEA, YVR, and HNL, so those are hardly regional routes. And now it's not quality or profitability that matter, but size?
Just as United uses its 787-10s on some Pacific routes, the majority of KE's 787-10 fleet (when they are received) will not be used for TPAC routes.
As for the quality comment, the largest carrier in a region is often not the best. EK has taken years to decide to get rid of the middle seat in business class - let alone get it done. And, if that applies to KE about service across the Pacific, it most certainly applies to UA for different reasons.
Last week I flew Asiana in J on the A350 SFO-ICN (thanks Aeroplan), and they were superior in every way from what you pictured and described. Amazing food in generous portions, friendly and proactive service, comfy bedding (albeit no mattress pad), good sleeping surface, reliable wi-fi. I also wore a thin short-sleeved shirt and shorts anticipating the warm cabin, which worked well.
KE seemingly never releases partner award space so I was expecting to be...
Last week I flew Asiana in J on the A350 SFO-ICN (thanks Aeroplan), and they were superior in every way from what you pictured and described. Amazing food in generous portions, friendly and proactive service, comfy bedding (albeit no mattress pad), good sleeping surface, reliable wi-fi. I also wore a thin short-sleeved shirt and shorts anticipating the warm cabin, which worked well.
KE seemingly never releases partner award space so I was expecting to be jealous of you getting to fly them, but not at all! I'll still try to find an opportunity to fly their 747-8 while it's still around. Otherwise it's depressing to think that the merger will not only knock out a *A partner with OZ but may lead to a dumbed down harmonized product across the two carriers.
@ GoAmtrak -- Guess I need to give the Asiana A350 a try. Happy to hear you had a good experience!
More generous than what is pictured? Wow, are you trying to feed a cow?
I can never understand the portion sizes of what Americans regard as "sufficient", it's not like they end up on average taller than say the Dutch (where they don't feed everyone like cows) and less fat (think Asians in general have you beat there).
@FLCL Believe me, I was surprised and I agree with you. I couldn't finish more than 60% of the bibimbap and accompaniments, and I refused the dessert/cheese course! Breakfast congee and fruit was also massive.
Korea is actually a fat country, at least compared to elsewhere in Asia. Around 37% are obese. In the US, 40% of Americans are obese.
What you choose between a 787 and A330neo overall?
@ Mike O. -- In business I'd definitely choose the 787. The A330neo is just too narrow to have a properly competitive product.
The new color scheme. Anodyne. Almost depressingly so.
Its unfortunate they borrowed AA's sense of onboard bland.
Lucky, did you try asking for the temp to be lowered?
I think it's a Japanese/Korean thing where their climates are known to be cold and they tend to turn up the heat at full blast. I flew on JAL to Hawaii out of all places years ago and the heat was way up!
I like it on the warmer side too. For me, many US airlines are too cold. So I rather see as a personal preference, with the US being accustomed to a more frigid AC than the rest of the world.
@ david -- On western airlines I've certainly asked, but this just seems to be the norm in Asia, and I was one of the few non-Asian passengers. So I didn't, because I figured it's just a "me" problem.
It will sound crazy, but it really is. Asians wear long pants and even jackets in broad daylight during peak summer temperatures of 90 to 100F and they won't even sweat a single drop.
Meanwhile, five minutes for me in that heat, and I'll be drenched.
It's not a you problem. I've asked for a couple of degrees adjustment (i.e. not a major change) with a good success record on plenty of Asian carriers, including JL, NH, BR, SQ, and OZ. You should feel free to ask politely and they are generally happy to oblige.
Service wise, if we're excluding First Class cabins, I'd say EVA is the best, followed by the Japanese carriers, then the Korean airlines.
I guess Korean Air just doesn't seem to have that same factor the other premium airlines do.
@ yoloswag420 -- Are you including Southeast Asia as well? Because if so, I'd add Singapore Airlines. Otherwise I agree with you.
Agreed on SQ, wasn't considering them originally since they do a serve a bit of a different market.
Taiwan/Korea/Japan have traditionally been closer competitors (quite literally due to their proximity), which is why I made the comparison.
Starlux is superior to EVA in my recent experiences and funny enough I find China Eastern superior to KE for the last couple of flights I had with them and not to forget Cathay Pacific.
Were the sunny side window seats the only ones left? I roasted in one for 14 hours on an Etihad 787-9 on AUH => IAD and uh… never again please!
@ Willem -- Honestly, it wasn't something I was thinking about when I went to select my seat, but I probably should've. At the time that I booked, there were also seats on the right side. Oops.
Korean Air was my last choice among most airlines in Asia! I prefer to fly with Thai Airways or Malaysia Airlines and receive more attentive service than from the unfriendly flight attendants of Korean Air! I used to enjoy flying with Asiana, but sadly it seems like that will no longer be an option, which is really disappointing.
Viasat does not have Ku-band (Fast) coverage over the Pacific
@ Ben -- Good catch, thank you!
Thanks very much for these insights, and it only confirms what I’ve believed all along: that Korean and Asiana have fallen a fair bit behind their competitors from Taiwan and Japan, not to mention CX and SQ. While the product is great on paper, the non-sliding doors are a big head-scratcher to me. So is the rather non-personalised service for that matter. EVA Air and their ilk have set the bar for phenomenal service when...
Thanks very much for these insights, and it only confirms what I’ve believed all along: that Korean and Asiana have fallen a fair bit behind their competitors from Taiwan and Japan, not to mention CX and SQ. While the product is great on paper, the non-sliding doors are a big head-scratcher to me. So is the rather non-personalised service for that matter. EVA Air and their ilk have set the bar for phenomenal service when it comes to transpacific flights like these.
Here’s hoping to a better-looking product on the KE A350, and hopefully with a new livery after the merger with Asiana is done and dusted!
Excited to hear about your next trip after you’re done reporting on the extreme of Copa and Gol on one hand, and KAL and JAL on the other! I’m expecting JAL to be as flawless in J on the A350-1000 as it was in First, and it could very well dethrone countryman ANA’s ‘THE Room’ as the world’s best J hard product. I wonder how ANA’s A380 premium products are like, though.
And speaking of...
Excited to hear about your next trip after you’re done reporting on the extreme of Copa and Gol on one hand, and KAL and JAL on the other! I’m expecting JAL to be as flawless in J on the A350-1000 as it was in First, and it could very well dethrone countryman ANA’s ‘THE Room’ as the world’s best J hard product. I wonder how ANA’s A380 premium products are like, though.
And speaking of KE’s Collins Aerospace Horizon product, how about you review it on Air India’s A350 next, on the route from Delhi to Heathrow? (Maybe also tie in Vistara for a bit before it’s gone forever next month.) I’m expecting the hard product to be superb, but the soft product just a little bit behind the curve, even though AI’s been introducing a lot of new premium metalware and amenities recently.