Turkish Airlines is one of my favorite airlines brands, and also offers one of the best business class experiences in the world. That’s despite the fact that Turkish doesn’t have a particularly good business class hard product. It sounds like that’s going to be changing in the future on the carrier’s most common long haul aircraft, but in a confusing way.
In this post:
Turkish Airlines plans new 2-3-2 business class
While the timeline remains to be seen, Executive Traveller reports that Turkish Airlines’ Chairman has revealed plans to introduce a new business class product for its Boeing 777-300ERs. The airline has 33 of these aircraft in its fleet, and they’re an average of under nine years old, so they still have quite a bit of life left in them.
For context, Turkish’s Boeing 777 business class currently consists of a total of 49 fully flat seats, spread across seven rows, in a 2-3-2 configuration.
Turkish Airlines is planning to upgrade this business class product to introduce “full privacy” and direct aisle access for each passenger, while maintaining the 2-3-2 layout.
Interestingly Turkish won’t be using one of the popular “generic” seats from a major existing manufacturer, but rather the seat is being created in-house, by the Turkish Cabin Interior team, so it will be a product you won’t find on any other airline.
The airline is reportedly currently in the process of getting a new seat certified, suggesting that the airline has already designed this seat. It’s anyone’s guess when this product enters service, though.
Turkish’s Chairman claims that the motivation for creating a new business class product in-house is that existing new products in the market aren’t dense enough. He claims that all the current available options on the market would reduce the seat count from 49 seats to 42 seats, but the airline reportedly has a new seat that can maintain the current seat count while adding the features passengers want.
Keep in mind that Turkish Airlines is planning on placing a huge wide body aircraft order, so this new seat may also be installed on future delivery aircraft.
Why I’m skeptical about this new product
I’m confused by the claims being made here by Turkish Airlines’ Chairman. Specifically, the airline claims it plans to maintain a 2-3-2 layout, but offer more privacy and direct aisle access. The airline claims it doesn’t want to consider any other product that would reduce the current seat count.
The only way I can think of to get a product that maintains a 2-3-2 layout and offers direct aisle access would be to offer something along the lines of Apex Suites, where seats are staggered a bit so that there’s a walkway for those not in an aisle seat to access the aisle.
I absolutely love Apex Suites, and they’re one of my favorite business class seats out there. But they’re not very popular with airlines, exactly because of how poorly they utilize space. This isn’t at all an efficient configuration, and doesn’t maximize aircraft real estate.
Why? Well, most modern business class seats have become more efficient by utilizing the space to the side of the seat in front, while Apex Suites don’t do that. For example, Gulf Air’s Boeing 787-9s have 24 business class seats between the first and second set of doors, while other airlines can fit 30 seats with direct aisle access in that space.
For that matter, Turkish’s current Boeing 777 business class seats don’t have an advantage when it comes to space efficiency. Turkish has 28 business class seats between the first and second set of doors on the 777, which is the same number of seats you’ll find in a standard reverse herringbone configuration, like on Air Canada’s Boeing 777-300ERs.
I’m curious to see how this evolves, and what I’m missing here:
- Turkish could maintain its current Boeing 777 business class density with one of the latest generation seats out there
- I don’t see any way in which Turkish can maintain its current cabin density with a 2-3-2 layout that adds direct aisle access, because that will require staggering seats and adding a walkway, which takes up more space
Bottom line
Turkish Airlines reportedly plans to introduce a new Boeing 777 business class. However, the airline will take an unconventional approach with this, offering direct aisle access and full privacy, while maintaining a 2-3-2 layout. This sounds to me like something along the lines of Apex Suites, but that’s one of the least dense configurations out there, so I’m a bit confused. Let’s mark this as “developing” for now…
What do you make of Turkish Airlines’ plans for a new Boeing 777 business class?
I hope all there 777 will soon be updated.
They put me on one on return from Taipei. 787-900 with new businessclass was planned. But according to Turkisch they decided on a plane 24hr before the flight. So keep watching those seat reservarions because after switching a plane you may end up in the wrong seat
Here's the thing - as someone mentioned, the United Polaris seat isn't really 1-2-1. It is a staggered 2-4-2 that preserves density while still offering a very good passenger experience. Turkish is starting with a less dense product and working within that to preserve density and still allow direct aisle access.
Arent the seats "angle flat" on the TK 777-300?
Nope. Fully flat. Quite wide and comfortable too..
I much prefer the layout on the 787—much more comfortable.
Yes, it seems confusing on how they will achieve this layout. But Im sure TK will make it work. I am confident that it will be a stunning product once completed. For now, its "wait and see".
Doesn't look private at all. The configuration of 1-2-1 is most private.
My guess is the guy does not know what he's talking about. The overarching goal is to maintain density, someone probably told him there would be no loss in density so he assumed they are sticking with 2-3-2.
Would love some enterprising reader (or Ben, for that matter) to calculate how many Lufthansa “Allegris” seats would fit in the space currently allocated to business class on a TK 773. And before anyone bothers suggesting it, I'll just confirm up front that that person will not be me!
Turkish Airlines is a great airline but I can’t consider them to be in the same league as SQ or EK when their management keeps on making dumb decisions like this that are quite frankly out of touch with reality. What happened to that Denver route they were going to launch for example. They seem to be a pretty corrupt airline behind the scenes.
For these flights the amenity kit for those sitting in the middle seat will include a collapsible ladder to get in and out of the seat without having to ask your neighbor to get up.
Check out JAL Business Class Suits at aerolopa.com
I see something like that coming
That’s the apex suite business class seat Ben already referenced in the post.
Like Baliken, I like the current configuration.
I had the middle seat in the group of three on a flight back in March and I honestly did not think it was that bad because the aisle seat was my spouse. We were also the first row of the cabin. I found I could get up and climb out even when the beds were in full flatbed mode.
The set up of these seats with...
Like Baliken, I like the current configuration.
I had the middle seat in the group of three on a flight back in March and I honestly did not think it was that bad because the aisle seat was my spouse. We were also the first row of the cabin. I found I could get up and climb out even when the beds were in full flatbed mode.
The set up of these seats with no footwell where you have so much leg room is great, and the mattress pads the flight attendants proactively put on before we took off were comfortable. I slept really well! I hope that if they replace the seats that the new model is equally comfortable for sleeping.
I think they're planning something like BA's 787... The aisle and middle seats are rear-faced, to create some space so passengers could access their seats without disturbing others...
If I recall correctly from the TAAG review (LIS-LAD), they had a semi-private 2-3-2 layout in business (albeit not having Apex Suites' direct aisle access).
Some Erdogan guy got rich selling shit seats to another Erdogan guy (the TK head who went to Erdo's sons Imam Hatip school in Kartal). You can't compare Turkey and hence TK to a proper company.
I suspect by “modifying” the seat Lufthansa has come up with you can make it 2-3-2 by staggering all 3 seats in the centre section differently (instead of the two aisle seats being symmetrical). While Lufthansa classifies theirs as 1-2-1/1-1-1, it could be done in a way where you can group two rows of the centre section into a group of 3 seats in one row, especially with the wider cabin of the 777, to make it 2-3-2.
I like the current business class config on TK’s 777s. I usually take the an aisle seat in the first row of the second part of the cabin and often have an empty seat next to me. Lots of room. Very comfy.
Ben, have you written about Air India’s plans to lease 3 ex-SQ 777-300ERs? We’ve seen Jetihad, we’ve seen Qatar Pacific, now we’ve got Indiapore Airlines
Air Sindia?
United Polaris seat could fit 32 between doors 1 and 2 of a 777-300ER (they take 4 out to make room for the galley). That’s not 2-3-2, but it’s kind of 2-4-2 in a sense since the rows overlap a bit.
2-3-2 config isn't any denser than 1-2-1 staggered or reverse herringbone. The only way to make 2-3-2 denser is making it like LH 747-400 biz seat, but the PaxEx will be horrible.
If Turkish couldn't get any denser seat than their current 2-3-2 config, it may be because major seating suppliers such as Safran, Collins, Stelia, Thompson, etc. are not comfortable with the airline.
Turkish Airlines is growing its own seating company with support...
2-3-2 config isn't any denser than 1-2-1 staggered or reverse herringbone. The only way to make 2-3-2 denser is making it like LH 747-400 biz seat, but the PaxEx will be horrible.
If Turkish couldn't get any denser seat than their current 2-3-2 config, it may be because major seating suppliers such as Safran, Collins, Stelia, Thompson, etc. are not comfortable with the airline.
Turkish Airlines is growing its own seating company with support from the government, and I've heard that when major suppliers send their demo seats to Turkish for bidding, a similar product from TSI comes out in a year. They seem to reverse engineer it.
It’s probably not you who is confused but the Turkish Airlines communications team. It’s probably rather maintaining the 49 seat count and density rather than the 2-3-2 layout.
It would be very difficult to have a direct isle access for a middle seat - it’s a contradiction in itself.
It's possible with the Apex suites.