A massive, positive change has been made to the Air France-KLM Flying Blue loyalty program, which is part of a larger suite of changes. I first wrote about this roughly a month ago, and it has now officially been rolled out.
In this post:
Free stopovers on Air France & KLM awards
Nowadays very few airline loyalty programs allow good-value stopovers on award tickets. The two most popular exceptions are Air Canada Aeroplan and Alaska Mileage Plan. Now another valuable program has added stopovers — Air France-KLM Flying Blue has rolled out free stopovers on award tickets.
This was initially revealed several weeks back, during a webinar for Flying Blue members in Northern Europe.
It has now also officially been confirmed in writing from Flying Blue:
“Stopovers are connections of more than 24 hours. With a stopover, you have the possibility to visit an intermediate city on your way to your final destination. Free stopovers are now available on Air France and KLM connections and can be booked via our customer service agents.”
To be clear, we’re not just talking “free” stopovers when booking the highest cost awards as a roundtrip, but this is also possible on one-way awards booked at the lowest award levels.
The intent is that this initially works when booking via the call center, though this will hopefully be available online at some point in the future. Furthermore, this is initially only valid when traveling exclusively on Air France and KLM, though the plan is also to roll this out on partners in the future.
While there are several reports of people successfully booking stopovers via the call center, it seems that maybe not all phone agents have been properly trained yet, so if you call and the agent isn’t familiar with this, you might have to hang up and call again.
Is this a game-changer for Flying Blue miles?
Flying Blue is an incredibly useful frequent flyer program. Not only does the program have access to the most Air France and KLM transatlantic business class award space, but the miles are also easy to come by. Flying Blue is transfer partners with all major transferable points currencies, including American Express Membership Rewards, Capital One, Chase Ultimate Rewards, and Citi ThankYou.
The opportunities here are awesome. Traveling from New York to Dubai via Paris? You’re able to have a stopover in Paris. Traveling from Chicago to Cape Town via Amsterdam? You’re able to have a stopover in Amsterdam.
It’s fun to be able to break up a long trip with a stopover, especially if it’s in a city you want to visit (and Air France and KLM are both blessed with especially awesome hub cities).
Admittedly there is somewhat of an element of mystery to all of this. That’s because Flying Blue is known for using married segment logic for awards, which at times could impact pricing. Furthermore, since Flying Blue has dynamic award pricing, presumably only certain types of awards can be combined.
My general assumption would be that if you find award options at the lowest award costs (per the Flying Blue miles price estimator), then the stopover should price correctly. In other words, if you’re flying from New York to Paris to Johannesburg and find award space for 55,000 miles and 81,000 miles respectively, then the whole itinerary should likely price at 95,000 miles.
Bottom line
The Air France-KLM Flying Blue program has formally rolled out stopovers on award tickets, which is an exciting change. This is available for awards on Air France and KLM, and you have to book by phone to use this feature for now (though hopefully in the future it will be available online).
Are you excited about Flying Blue adding stopovers on awards?
This is great news. Does anyone know whether existing tickets could be changed to include a stopover? During the Great Amex Transfer Bonus Month I was able to score some great fares to Europe in J on AF metal. I'm transiting CDG both ways and I'd love to include a couple days in Paris if possible
Air France is s the worst airline in the world with it's emploees who are rude.not professional with no experience...it's a shame!!
Several months back, the AF/KL salesfolk in the European regional markets were telling some of us they would be doing this.
Adding a stopover at AMS for “no additional charge”? Not sure that will inculcate loyalty when the traveler isn’t eligible for SkyPriority at AMS. And even for those who are eligible for that, more people stopping over at AMS — just because it doesn’t cost “as much” as before — means somewhat more crowding...
Several months back, the AF/KL salesfolk in the European regional markets were telling some of us they would be doing this.
Adding a stopover at AMS for “no additional charge”? Not sure that will inculcate loyalty when the traveler isn’t eligible for SkyPriority at AMS. And even for those who are eligible for that, more people stopping over at AMS — just because it doesn’t cost “as much” as before — means somewhat more crowding at AMS for just about everything there.
Seems flying blue promo awards are only bookable online while stopovers must be by phone. I tried booking Montreal -> Amsterdam-> London with a stopovers in Amsterdam where there's award dates available for 27,500 miles as a 50% off promo award in business class and for Amsterdam to London individual leg prices at 20,000 miles in business. When I called the agent only found the dates I see available for first flight at the non...
Seems flying blue promo awards are only bookable online while stopovers must be by phone. I tried booking Montreal -> Amsterdam-> London with a stopovers in Amsterdam where there's award dates available for 27,500 miles as a 50% off promo award in business class and for Amsterdam to London individual leg prices at 20,000 miles in business. When I called the agent only found the dates I see available for first flight at the non promo price of 55,000 miles each without 50% discount. Would be crazy to get YUL -> AMS -> LHR for 27.5k total including a stopover!
I flew IST-CDG-JFK a couple weeks ago with a stopover in Paris of a little over 24 hours. Wasn’t able to book it online, but a phone agent did it. Not sure if this was part of the new policy or they bent the rules for me.
Unrelated, but rumor has it that DL announced LAX-AKL at a company event
On a slightly different topic, but part of the email flurry Flying Blue sent this morning, they also changed the conversion rate from Accor Reward points to Flying Blue points from 2:1 to 1:1. Could be very interesting for people with a lot of ALL points who don't use them for hotel stays.
Still rate of exchange is poor. The only reason to convert would be that you don’t stay with Accor. But if you don’t stay, how can you have All points? :-).
I stay, but only infrequently. Often by the time I have a second stay the points from the first stay have expired. If, when I don't have an Accord stay in the future, I'd be glad to exchange points, even at a bad ratio.
What a marketing spin! I dont want to have to spend an additional 25-30 hrs in AMS every time i travel to the States. Extra days, extra hotels extra food extra travel time used up! All because they are canceling key connecting routes. Not to mention i now have to 'check in' twice. Oh boy! Im exicited! NOT!
I don't think the stopovers are compulsory.
Duh ?! It’s voluntary not compulsory. It’s giving the option on SkyTeam members. It can be a stopover anywhere, provided the flights are operated by a member
One of the worst european programs. They dinamic pricing is nasty. You need to donate an organ in miles to book a J award long haul seat
Indeed. The nose-bleed mileage ticket pricing I’ve seen from AirFrance/KLM during the second half of this year is so bad that it almost makes Delta SkyMiles look like a generous fairy godmother.
I wonder if its just a programming flaw and they couldn't care less to fix it or if there are actually people out there that will pay 700K for a one-way, sub-par J class seat
I dumped 500k into this program and fairly disappointed.Delta awards are near non existent and sky high Redemptions on KLM awards typically.How about 900 k from West coast to AMS in business class.WTF? Granted some are much less like 325k one way but still outrageous
It does seem like some better value redemptions are departures from the East Coast
Cancel fees for changes and redeposits are the norm
And some fairly crappy...
I dumped 500k into this program and fairly disappointed.Delta awards are near non existent and sky high Redemptions on KLM awards typically.How about 900 k from West coast to AMS in business class.WTF? Granted some are much less like 325k one way but still outrageous
It does seem like some better value redemptions are departures from the East Coast
Cancel fees for changes and redeposits are the norm
And some fairly crappy phone reps with some exceptions here or there
On my last booking the agent insisted the award I wanted to change too to was not available.
But I booked it online while on the phone with her after going back and forth .Have to see how this all plays out with the stopover I suppose
Worst program ever in Europe
I booked round trip from Dallas to Naples Italy for 110k points in J. With the transfer bonus from Amex it was only 88k. We leave in April.
Totally agree with Andrew. Now if you wait, yeah could cost you. Right now P2 and I have (6) business class tickets in the hopper and I think 115K/each was the most we paid. One trip was that for two tickets. Granted you have taxes, nothing like BA. You convert the taxes to points and you still have a great price IMO. Beats our domestics for sure and most other European airlines. I'm working off...
Totally agree with Andrew. Now if you wait, yeah could cost you. Right now P2 and I have (6) business class tickets in the hopper and I think 115K/each was the most we paid. One trip was that for two tickets. Granted you have taxes, nothing like BA. You convert the taxes to points and you still have a great price IMO. Beats our domestics for sure and most other European airlines. I'm working off Brex points at 125% conversion and Amex the same 125%. What's not to like? Oh being flexible helps to on your gateway cities. And a positioning domestic flight might be in order. You gotta plan in advance. As the old country saying, you can hope for a bird nest on the ground, but COVID pricing is over.
Given the state of Schipol airport, wouldn't free stopover at AMS make things infinitely worse?
Agree entirely with Mark. Schipol is still a nightmare to negotiate, and arriving 3 hours before flight time is scarcely enough time.
Check-in desks close way early, (check-in on-line if you can) and the slow moving security lines are unbelievable. Forget lounge time unless you arrive 4+ hours before departure.
All over the Netherlands everything is chronically understaffed making for an unpleasant stay. Hate to say it, but avoid for the next 12...
Agree entirely with Mark. Schipol is still a nightmare to negotiate, and arriving 3 hours before flight time is scarcely enough time.
Check-in desks close way early, (check-in on-line if you can) and the slow moving security lines are unbelievable. Forget lounge time unless you arrive 4+ hours before departure.
All over the Netherlands everything is chronically understaffed making for an unpleasant stay. Hate to say it, but avoid for the next 12 months or so, especially AMS.
On the other hand, CDG is very quick. I’ve passed through there several times in the past 2 months and it was really easy. Passport control was fast as was security. Literally just walked through.
I don’t believe France was as badly affected in terms of job cuts.
Need to take this with a large grain of salt... and a certain amount of trepidation.
Redemptions from US to CDG/AMS have been significantly devalued by almost 30%.
Last year, 55k were the best value redemptions for one-way biz on AF/KLM. Now the lowest pricing is 70k.
BUT, if you do stopovers, such as MIA-CDG/AMS-LHR, the lowest pricing remains 55k biz class one way. My fear is that these no-cost stopovers will...
Need to take this with a large grain of salt... and a certain amount of trepidation.
Redemptions from US to CDG/AMS have been significantly devalued by almost 30%.
Last year, 55k were the best value redemptions for one-way biz on AF/KLM. Now the lowest pricing is 70k.
BUT, if you do stopovers, such as MIA-CDG/AMS-LHR, the lowest pricing remains 55k biz class one way. My fear is that these no-cost stopovers will eliminate the 55k redemptions, and we'll be left with everything at a minimum of 70k.
If that happens, it simply solidifies the 30% devaluation in the past 12 mths.
I have the same impression. I was recently looking for a one-way J award from East Asia to Europe. The cheapest awards used to be 70,500 miles (until ten days ago). It seems that the price has now gone up to 90k. You still find some for the old price, but they are far and far between. I guess that is the price that you have to pay for the stopovers and the new doors...
I don't think COVID pricing is a good base point. Still much cheaper than our domestic airlines.
In June of this year (2022) I was still booking and redeeming 55k AF/KL miles for one-way TATL business class from the US to Europe. Then from July, that bit the dust.
Beware the smiling guy (and his fanboys) promising "more choice", or "flexibility". They're always always always reducing value, if not at the same time, then soon thereafter.
I wonder how it works if their price is dynamic... After all, what's the difference between a free stopover and 2 separate one-way?
This is awesome news and will no doubt sway me to check them first when flying to Africa, but their fuel/surcharges are so high...
The first two sentences say "Nowadays very few airline loyalty programs allow free stopovers on award tickets. The two most popular exceptions are Air Canada Aeroplan and Alaska Mileage Plan." I thought that Aeroplan charges 5,000 miles for a stopover. Am I mistaken?
Correct
Noice. I've done SE Asia flights through AF/KLM with 12-14hr layovers in Paris and Amsterdam before, an actual stopover would be bonkers. I only wish they'd do this for paid flights as well.
Under 24 hours is not considered a stopover. Hence you can benefit from that
LH can't compete with this (if this is real) because let's face it Frankfurt ain't Paris honey
LH can't compete with this not because of Frankfurt (Munich ain't bad, and Vienna is great).
LH can't compete with this because Miles & More is a joke of a frequent flier program.
I actually find M&M quite useful. Sure, the surcharges are significant, but award availability in business and first class is decent. I recently booked three seats in LH First nine months out, which is probably difficult in most other programs. And you can use the miles rather easily for upgrades as well. By contrast, I get much less value out of Flying Blue. FB is only useful for awards on AF and KLM, and availability...
I actually find M&M quite useful. Sure, the surcharges are significant, but award availability in business and first class is decent. I recently booked three seats in LH First nine months out, which is probably difficult in most other programs. And you can use the miles rather easily for upgrades as well. By contrast, I get much less value out of Flying Blue. FB is only useful for awards on AF and KLM, and availability is much worse than for M&M (if you do not count the ridiculous 700,000 miles one-way awards for J). I think the program only shines in comparison to Delta Skymiles.
Since Flying Blue has dynamic pricing, the mechanics of this are going to be wild.
Only good if it means you can go to two cities with the SAME fuel surcharges. It helps often the impact of the high fuel surcharges of these awards.
Interested if this is just for Paris/Amsterdam (okay) or if any city is allowed (great)
It will be interesting if they allow this in partner hub cities where you're arriving on AF/KLM, if say you're ongoing flights are on DL, could you stay over in NY, ATL, SLC, etc. I doubt it, but it could create some very interesting opportunities.
Mileage ticket space on DL flights has been abysmally poor when trying to use AirFrance/KLM miles to fly DL domestically within the US.