This isn’t how I saw the federal transportation mask mandate in the United States ending…
In this post:
Government makes masks at airports and on airplanes optional
Since early 2021, the United States has had a federal transportation mask mandate, which has been extended several times. Most recently this was supposed to apply through April 18, 2022, but then it was extended through May 3, 2022, “out of an abundance of caution.”
On Monday, US District Judge Kathryn Kimball Mizelle ruled that the federal transportation mask mandate exceeded the authority of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), claiming that the CDC failed to justify the order and didn’t follow proper rule making procedures.
As a result, the Biden administration has stated that the Transportation Security Administration (TSA) will no longer enforce the transportation mask mandate. It remains to be seen if the Biden administration will appeal this ruling:
- Doing so seems unlikely to me, given that this was only as of now extended by roughly two more weeks
- The mandate has become less popular over time
- From a political standpoint, this is probably the best case scenario for Biden (which isn’t saying a whole lot), since many people will be happy about not having to wear masks, but Biden won’t be blamed for any negative impacts as a result of this; I’m not saying that’s how it should be, but that’s my view
US airlines now making face masks optional
While there’s no longer a federal regulation requiring masks be worn on airplanes, individual airlines can of course make their own policies. After all, for most of 2020 there wasn’t a federal regulation requiring masks on planes, but rather each individual airline required this.
With this latest update, virtually all major airlines in the United States have announced that they’ll no longer enforce mask compliance on planes. Among other airlines, this includes:
- Alaska Airlines
- American Airlines
- Delta Air Lines
- Frontier Airlines
- JetBlue Airways
- Spirit Airlines
- United Airlines
Keep in mind that masks will still be required for flights to certain international destinations, since many countries still require masks. In some cases masks will just be required upon arrival in another country, while in other cases they’ll continue to be required for the entire flight.
There are interesting stories from passengers today, with some reporting that pilots made announcements while inflight telling passengers masks were no longer required.
If anyone is flying in the coming hours and days, I’d love to hear about how many people are wearing masks at airports and on planes. I had my first mask-optional experience at Frankfurt Airport a couple of weeks ago, yet 95%+ of people were still wearing masks.
I think it’s going to be a different story in the United States, with of course some variance depending on the place. For example, I suspect the number of passengers wearing masks at Miami Airport will be very different than the number of passengers wearing masks at San Francisco Airport.
What about all the people airlines banned?
During the pandemic we saw airlines ban thousands of people over mask compliance issues. This didn’t come in the form of a federal no-fly list, but rather individual airlines created their own lists.
Most airlines stated that these people would remain banned until the federal mask mandate is eliminated. It now remains to be seen if these people can once again fly on those airlines, as I haven’t heard anything official one way or another yet.
What about pre-departure testing for international travel?
International travelers bound for the United States need to present proof of a negative coronavirus test taken within one calendar day of travel. This rule is independent of the mask mandate, and remains in place. As recently as a couple of weeks ago, the White House shared that there were no plans to change this requirement.
While I’m very much in favor of this being lifted, it doesn’t seem we should expect that anytime soon.
Delta labels COVID-19 “ordinary seasonal virus”
It’s interesting to see how different airlines are communicating about their mask policy changes. I can’t help but point out Delta’s press release about masks now being optional:
We are relieved to see the U.S. mask mandate lift to facilitate global travel as COVID-19 has transitioned to an ordinary seasonal virus.
This seems like a bit of a stretch, no? And I’m not sure what exactly Delta is trying to accomplish by phrasing this in such a way? You can be in favor of the mask mandate being lifted while not thinking that COVID-19 has become an “ordinary seasonal virus,” because, well, it’s not.
I’m also not sure what exactly the “season” is for coronavirus? Because if it’s being suggested that it’s seasonal to winter, I’d like to present to you Florida in the summer of 2021…
Yes, we’ve come a long way when it comes to mitigating risk associated with coronavirus, but coronavirus is still a bigger threat than your “ordinary seasonal virus.” Ultimately I suppose this shouldn’t come as much of a surprise, since recently Delta dropped the healthcare surcharge for unvaccinated employees, also arguing that coronavirus has become a seasonal disease.
Bottom line
A judge has ruled against the federal transportation mask mandate, and as a result the Biden administration has instructed the TSA to no longer enforce mask wearing. As a result, we’re seeing airlines start to make mask wearing optional. Only time will tell if the Biden administration appeals this, but it seems unlikely given that the days for the mandate were numbered anyway.
What do you make of this latest mask mandate update? And if you’re flying in the coming days, please report back on your experience!
Mask-optional public transit alarms immunocompromised people and their families
https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2022-04-20/mask-optional-public-transit-alarms-immunocompromised?_amp=true
Unfortunately this article shows how flawed the average persons perception of risk is.
From the article…
“ If he wears a mask in an enclosed space such as an airplane but hundreds of other people do not, “it ceases to be as effective,” he said. “You’re sitting there, stewing in everything that everyone else is breathing out.””
This gentleman is apparently unaware that the cloth masks required by the CDC didn’t offer him any...
Unfortunately this article shows how flawed the average persons perception of risk is.
From the article…
“ If he wears a mask in an enclosed space such as an airplane but hundreds of other people do not, “it ceases to be as effective,” he said. “You’re sitting there, stewing in everything that everyone else is breathing out.””
This gentleman is apparently unaware that the cloth masks required by the CDC didn’t offer him any protection in the first place. Furthermore the same gentleman is very well protected by his own N95 mask. Finally, even if the mask mandate was still in place, the allowance for eating and drinking only ensures that those hundreds of people would be exhaling unmasked for several minutes to hours at a time.
I flew on Monday night, from Phoenix to New York. I personally hadn't heard the mandate was lifted at that point, but I did notice that about 85% of the people in the airport were not wearing masks. Frankly, I assumed that was just Arizona being Arizona. I was in Texas a few days earlier and I would say about 20%-30% of people were actively not wearing masks, so while it was a big increase,...
I flew on Monday night, from Phoenix to New York. I personally hadn't heard the mandate was lifted at that point, but I did notice that about 85% of the people in the airport were not wearing masks. Frankly, I assumed that was just Arizona being Arizona. I was in Texas a few days earlier and I would say about 20%-30% of people were actively not wearing masks, so while it was a big increase, I was not surprised. I would say about 80% of people on my flight were not wearing a mask either.
In the "information age", information is free. There is no reason for people who can apparently use a computer to continue to be so misinformed, fully 2 years in the single most transformative event in since WWII.
Want to know whether masks (cloth or surgical) have played a significant role as a mitigation measure against the SARS-CoV-2 various? Follow the link below.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-briefs/masking-science-sars-cov2.html
Here's the short of it:
In the "information age", information is free. There is no reason for people who can apparently use a computer to continue to be so misinformed, fully 2 years in the single most transformative event in since WWII.
Want to know whether masks (cloth or surgical) have played a significant role as a mitigation measure against the SARS-CoV-2 various? Follow the link below.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-briefs/masking-science-sars-cov2.html
Here's the short of it:
The problem with the data released by the CDC, again, is it is all retrospective observational data. In every study provided in the link you gave the data is filled with confounding variables.
For example, when cases are high and mask wear is mandated, people will also adjust the behavior. Maybe they won’t go the the dinner party. Maybe they will wait until a different time of day to get their groceries, or have...
The problem with the data released by the CDC, again, is it is all retrospective observational data. In every study provided in the link you gave the data is filled with confounding variables.
For example, when cases are high and mask wear is mandated, people will also adjust the behavior. Maybe they won’t go the the dinner party. Maybe they will wait until a different time of day to get their groceries, or have them delivered instead of venture out themselves. You cannot figure out which variable is causing the case reduction.
Many studies also rely on self reporting, which is nortoriously unreliable for accurate data.
In Bangladesh cloth masks were found to have no benefit in preventing Covid in a population that was both Covid naïve and unvaccinated.
In Spain there was no difference in the rate of Covid between age groups when mask wear was not required and when it was. Same in Finland.
A data review by Liu, Prasad, and Darrow found the following.
“Of sixteen quantitative meta‐analyses, eight were equivocal or critical as to whether evidence supports a public recommendation of masks, and the remaining eight supported a public mask intervention on limited evidence primarily on the basis of the precautionary principle.”
Dr Prasad also offers extensive insight to the type of “science” the CDC relies on for recommending cloth masks. He concludes that this research would be rejected from an 8th grade science fair, but it’s good enough for MMWR, the CDC’s own journal.
https://vinayprasadmdmph.substack.com/p/mask-studies-reach-a-new-scientific?s=r
Your points do not stand: if you were referring to a single study, you might have a point. The site, run by the world's leading disease control and prevention entity, provides a fairly a comprehensive summary of studies that, collectively and taking into account outliers, paint a clear picture: masks are helpful.
People who are determined to push an opposing view or conspiracy theories will see "problems" where the evidence is quite compelling.
My points don’t stand? Says who, you? You have linked to a single resource. I do agree that pre-pandemic the CDC was regarded as one of the premier public health agencies in the world. Unfortunately the CDC has burned all that capital. So has the FDA.
The CDC and FDA have greenlit a 4th booster dose for all americas 50 years and older. Pfizer only asked for 65+, but they were given 50 and...
My points don’t stand? Says who, you? You have linked to a single resource. I do agree that pre-pandemic the CDC was regarded as one of the premier public health agencies in the world. Unfortunately the CDC has burned all that capital. So has the FDA.
The CDC and FDA have greenlit a 4th booster dose for all americas 50 years and older. Pfizer only asked for 65+, but they were given 50 and up just because. Never mind that there is exactly zero randomized control data supporting a 4th booster dose. None. Zero. Zilch. Nada.
The CDC released a greatly flawed study trying to link Covid to an increased risk of diabetes in kids, presumably to scare parents into getting their kids vaccinated.
The CDC continues to ignore the mounting evidence that mRNA vaccines cause myocarditis at a much greater rate than the one in 40,000 they report for young men. There is ample evidence to recommend against the Moderna product in young men, but the CDC stays mum on the subject.
The CDC was pro school closures during 2020 and early 2021. This will go down in history as one of the greatest public health failures in US history, harming an entire generation of children in the process.
The FDA forced out two senior leaders who didn’t agree with mandatory booster shots under political pressure from the white house. No doubt the CDC is under similar political pressure from the WH to walk the line.
Let’s be very clear. In the past two years the CDC has funded zero randomized control studies regarding masking. Zero. The CDC or FDA has not compelled Pfizer of Moderna to take any of their record profits from vaccines and run randomized control studies regarding the real world effectiveness of third and fourth vaccine booster doses. The CDC has failed the American people.
As such a single link to the CDC’s webpage that is refuted by creditable metanalysis, randomized control studies, and well done cohort analysis does not stand any level of scrutiny. It is your turn to produce better evidence, sir.
I will not waste any energy here.
I bet you also believe that global warming is a hoax.
G'day.
Stay healthy, time will tell which of us is on the right side of science.
Time already has...
To further this point of the CDC trying to game the research, lets use the first listed study on their website - the RTC performed in Bangladesh.
The CDC concludes "In villages receiving mask interventions, symptomatic seroprevalence of SARS-CoV-2 was reduced by approximately 9% (adjusted prevalence ratio 0.91, 95% CI 0.82-1.00) relative to comparison villages"
That is a gross misrepresentation of the data. What the CDC has left out of their analysis of this...
To further this point of the CDC trying to game the research, lets use the first listed study on their website - the RTC performed in Bangladesh.
The CDC concludes "In villages receiving mask interventions, symptomatic seroprevalence of SARS-CoV-2 was reduced by approximately 9% (adjusted prevalence ratio 0.91, 95% CI 0.82-1.00) relative to comparison villages"
That is a gross misrepresentation of the data. What the CDC has left out of their analysis of this study is that the implementation of cloth mask wear was not statistically significant to prevent covid infection. The very same mask the CDC mandates.
The CDC also published in their own journal the following study.
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7106e1.htm
Dr. Prasad had this to say about that study
"Enter a new study in MMWR— the CDC’s pet journal; It is getting widely tweeted and cited, and that is unfortunate. The paper is entirely, irredeemably flawed. Its flaws are so evident that it should not have been published nor promoted. When an issue is deeply polarizing, publishing bad science helps no one. It cannot convince skeptics, proponents don’t need convincing, and it deepens mistrust in institutions. Let’s consider the paper."
Then we also have Dr Prasad's insight to Dr Walensky posting on twitter that mask wear has an 80% reduction in Covid transmission. 80%?!
https://vinayprasadmdmph.substack.com/p/do-masks-reduce-risk-of-covid19-by?s=r
"I came across a headline in the Guardian saying masks reduce the risk of COVID19 by 53%. Although lofty, this is still a lower number than the estimate offered by the CDC director on twitter of 80%. Interestingly, in the only published cluster RCT to date during COVID19, surgical masks had an 11% risk reduction and cloth masks had no effect at all on the primary endpoint of symptom driven lab positive results. That cluster RCT took place in a location with essentially no vaccination (aka circumstances which would give masks the best chance to show the best effect size).
The only other completed RCT during the pandemic, DANMASK was null as to the effect of surgical masks, and had been powered to detect a 50% reduction. At the time, many complained DANMASK was underpowered. Masks worked, but not that well, they argued. Yet, it appears now DANMASK was adequately powered if one is to believe the 53% estimate. So which is it? Was DANMASK adequately powered or not? Is 50% plausible or not?
Before you answer, let’s remember that even the authors of the 53% study write, “Risk of bias across the six studies ranged from moderate to serious or critical.” I never thought I would be wishing for ‘mild’!"
Again, the CDC is woefully mismanaging our public health response to Covid. Likely due to pressure from the WH. This is unacceptable. When political pressure results in public health agencies abusing their power, that power must be drawn in. Then the people exerting that political pressure must be held accountable.
You also believe that global warming is a "hoax".
I cannot waste my time with you because you are not a scientist. If you are one, that's even worse because it would mean you are a sellout: you traded scientific integrity for your political views.
I will no longer address you.
G'day.
Constantly attacking the messenger instead of the message. Sure fire sign of losing an argument.
Stop with the ad hominem argument and offer some actual evidence to support your position. Instead of just saying “you’re wrong”, explain why I’m wrong.
Background
SARS-CoV-2 infection is transmitted predominantly by inhalation of respiratory droplets generated when people cough, sneeze, sing, talk, or breathe. CDC recommends community use of masks to prevent transmission of SARS-CoV-2. Masks are primarily intended to reduce the emission of virus-laden droplets by the wearer (“source control”), which is especially relevant for asymptomatic or presymptomatic infected wearers who feel well and may be unaware of their infectiousness to others (estimated to account for more than...
Background
SARS-CoV-2 infection is transmitted predominantly by inhalation of respiratory droplets generated when people cough, sneeze, sing, talk, or breathe. CDC recommends community use of masks to prevent transmission of SARS-CoV-2. Masks are primarily intended to reduce the emission of virus-laden droplets by the wearer (“source control”), which is especially relevant for asymptomatic or presymptomatic infected wearers who feel well and may be unaware of their infectiousness to others (estimated to account for more than 50% of SARS-CoV-2 transmissions).1, 2 Masks also help reduce inhalation of these droplets by the wearer (“filtration for wearer protection”). The community benefit of masking for SARS-CoV-2 control is due to the combination of these two effects (source control and filtration for wearer protection); individual prevention benefit increases with increasing numbers of people using masks consistently and correctly.
Source Control to Block Exhaled Virus
Multi-layer cloth masks block release of exhaled respiratory particles into the environment,3-6 along with any microorganisms associated with these particles.7, 8 Cloth masks not only effectively block most large droplets (i.e., 20-30 microns and larger),9 but they can also block the exhalation of fine droplets and particles (also often referred to as aerosols) smaller than 10 microns3, 5 which increase in number with the volume of speech10-12 and specific types of phonation.13 Multi-layer cloth masks can both block 50-70% of these fine droplets and particles3, 14 and limit the forward spread of those that are not captured.5, 6, 15, 16 Upwards of 80% blockage has been achieved in human experiments,4 with cloth masks in some studies performing on par with surgical masks as barriers for source control.3, 9, 14, 17 In one study, conducted prior to widespread circulation of the Delta variant, masks worked equally well for blocking aerosolized particles containing both “wild-type” virus and the Alpha variant (a more infectious variant).17
Filtration for Wearer Protection
Studies demonstrate that cloth mask materials can also reduce wearers’ exposure to infectious droplets through filtration, including filtration of fine droplets and particles less than 10 microns. The relative filtration effectiveness of various masks has varied widely across studies, in large part due to variation in experimental design and particle sizes analyzed. Multiple layers of cloth with higher thread counts have demonstrated superior performance compared to single layers of cloth with lower thread counts, in some cases filtering nearly 50% of fine particles less than 1 micron.14, 18-30 Some materials (e.g., polypropylene) may enhance filtering effectiveness by generating triboelectric charge (a form of static electricity) that enhances capture of charged particles20 while others (e.g., silk) may help repel moist droplets31 and reduce fabric wetting and thus maintain breathability and comfort. In addition to the number of layers and choice of materials, other techniques can improve wearer protection by improving fit and thereby filtration capacity. Examples include but are not limited to mask fitters, knotting-and-tucking the ear loops of medical procedures masks, using a cloth mask placed over a medical procedure mask, and nylon hosiery sleeves.32-36
I just don't get it. The single non-evasive, proven to reduce transmission, low cost thing on airplanes to reduce transmission is removed and yet mandatory testing for entry into the US is still in place.
There is absolutely no science behind mask usage. None.
Do you own a computer? Does it have the google on it?
Which part of cloth mask wesr is proven? To date the only randomized controlled cluster studies have concluded that cloth masks offer no protection from transmission or infection and surgical masks have a minimal improvement.
Thank You
Tampa, Florida!!
Alaska has made the following statement about pax banned due to mask compliance on their blog:
"What happens to guests who were banned because of not following our previous mask policy? Throughout the last two years, we have relied on reporting from agents and flight attendants to ban noncompliant guests from traveling while the federal mask policy remained in effect. Based on our reports, we will have some guests whose behavior was particularly egregious...
Alaska has made the following statement about pax banned due to mask compliance on their blog:
"What happens to guests who were banned because of not following our previous mask policy? Throughout the last two years, we have relied on reporting from agents and flight attendants to ban noncompliant guests from traveling while the federal mask policy remained in effect. Based on our reports, we will have some guests whose behavior was particularly egregious who will remain banned, even after the mask policy is rescinded."
https://news.alaskaair.com/guest-experience/face-masks-optional-on-planes-in-airports-april-2022-guidance/
To Alex and some of the other posters here. You seem so averted in doing anything that you perceive as being risky. Therefore I suggest you don’t drive, don’t work, dont exercise, don’t eat etc. People have died doing all of those things. There is inherent risk in all that we do. It is about personal choice and the freedom to make the choices that are best for us. If you want to mask up...
To Alex and some of the other posters here. You seem so averted in doing anything that you perceive as being risky. Therefore I suggest you don’t drive, don’t work, dont exercise, don’t eat etc. People have died doing all of those things. There is inherent risk in all that we do. It is about personal choice and the freedom to make the choices that are best for us. If you want to mask up do so. Social distance do so, stop flying do so. I for one will respect your choices, but don’t try and force your will, beliefs on me.
It is utterly silly to put deaths from normal activities of daily living like driving, working, exercising, eating (!) in the same category as deaths from a deadly (6M and counting) pandemic.
Rejoice that the mitigation measures that were put in place to fight the bug have reduced the threat sufficiently to where the administration has chosen not to contest the judge's ruling and to stop enforcing the mask mandate, but don't get...
It is utterly silly to put deaths from normal activities of daily living like driving, working, exercising, eating (!) in the same category as deaths from a deadly (6M and counting) pandemic.
Rejoice that the mitigation measures that were put in place to fight the bug have reduced the threat sufficiently to where the administration has chosen not to contest the judge's ruling and to stop enforcing the mask mandate, but don't get silly! You are clearly confusing freedom with license. You are free to kill yourself if you so choose, but you are not free to take anyone else along.
But make no mistake about it, if things start to really get bad again, the president can invoke any of several crisis/emergency management orders at his disposal to reimpose whatever mandate he may choose without the courts being to do anything about it.
G'day.
@DCS "It is utterly silly to put deaths from normal activities of daily living like driving, working, exercising, eating (!) in the same category as deaths from a deadly (6M and counting) pandemic."
If you believe the vaccine works than no great danger exists for you.
First, before effective vaccines became available (at record speed, thankfully), it is the mitigation measures that are now being pooh-poohed that "flattened the curve", thus keeping things from getting out control until people could be vaccinated.
Second, vaccines work effectively against strains of the virus for which they were devised. They will require tweaking seasonally, just like flu vaccines are, but it is unclear whether we are there at this juncture. Until then, it...
First, before effective vaccines became available (at record speed, thankfully), it is the mitigation measures that are now being pooh-poohed that "flattened the curve", thus keeping things from getting out control until people could be vaccinated.
Second, vaccines work effectively against strains of the virus for which they were devised. They will require tweaking seasonally, just like flu vaccines are, but it is unclear whether we are there at this juncture. Until then, it will be dangerously silly and unwise to minimize the risk.
The only flaw in your logic DCS is there is very little evidence to support that any intervention, other than vaccination, has any effect on the course of this pandemic.
Cloth masks are proven to have done nothing. Surgical masks offer marginal benefits. “Lockdowns” likely had no effect on the trajectory of the pandemic. Social distancing likely had no effect on the pandemic. Only vaccination has had any significant affect on death rate. Treatments...
The only flaw in your logic DCS is there is very little evidence to support that any intervention, other than vaccination, has any effect on the course of this pandemic.
Cloth masks are proven to have done nothing. Surgical masks offer marginal benefits. “Lockdowns” likely had no effect on the trajectory of the pandemic. Social distancing likely had no effect on the pandemic. Only vaccination has had any significant affect on death rate. Treatments have had some modest lifesaving gains.
In short Covid was going to do whatever it was going to do, and prior to vaccination there was very little we could do to change that.
Of course the CDC could do randomized controlled trials to prove all of this, but they didn’t. They love to make rules with no good data to support their rules. Now that we’re 2+ years in there is no excuse for that. If you want power you need to wield it responsibly, or don’t be surprised when that power is taken away.
That is because you are uneducated. I would provide the relevant scientific literature but, like many others who've made similar comments, you would not bother reading it, or even if you did bother reading, you would not understand any of it.
The debate about...
That is because you are uneducated. I would provide the relevant scientific literature but, like many others who've made similar comments, you would not bother reading it, or even if you did bother reading, you would not understand any of it.
The debate about whether mitigation measures other than vaccination 'flattened the curve' is no debate at all; it is a settled issue among those who know and understand the scientific evidence.
G'day.
That is quite the assertion. I work in healthcare, specifically emergency medicine, and I strongly disagree with your stance. Furthermore multiple physicians, such as Marty Makary, Vinay Prasad, and Zev Jamrozik also have similar stances regarding the current state of public health and Covid.
The only randomized control study concluded that cloth masks offered no protection.
Studies from Spain showed no change in case rate between the ages that children mask and those...
That is quite the assertion. I work in healthcare, specifically emergency medicine, and I strongly disagree with your stance. Furthermore multiple physicians, such as Marty Makary, Vinay Prasad, and Zev Jamrozik also have similar stances regarding the current state of public health and Covid.
The only randomized control study concluded that cloth masks offered no protection.
Studies from Spain showed no change in case rate between the ages that children mask and those who do not.
Studies from Finland showed no difference in case rate in cities that masked 10 year old kids and cities that didn’t mask until 12 years.
The simple truth is no measure aside from vaccination has offered any serious dent in what Covid did, or is going to do. Continuing to wear cloth masks on planes offers exactly zero protection to all parties involved.
I provided the evidence that's stacked against whatever claims you have. You can convince conspiracy theorists that the evidence is flawed but you will never convince bona fide scientists,
Conclusion: you lose.
G'day.
Perceived??? You know there's still a big risk from long COVID, right?
There has always been a risk of long term illness from a viral infection. This was known before Covid.
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/326619
The interesting thing is no one has actually defined long Covid. When you search the literature for studies concerning long Covid many different creteria for diagnosis are used. It’s hard to track the rate of something when you don’t even have the definition of what that something actually is settled.
The brilliant overlord in the White House has decided he wants to appeal the ruling. All hail the party of science.
Seems like he wants to expedite the demise of his regime. Bring it on.
If the CDC really wants to do something useful investigate how disease ridden these coach bathrooms that have been downsized to a phone booth have become. I went into one day and what I saw was disgusting. I can only imagine what was lurking on those surfaces. Airline executives should have the bathrooms on the executive floors reduced to that size.
If the CDC really wants to do something useful investigate how disease ridden these coach bathrooms that have been downsized to a phone booth have become. I went into one day and what I saw was disgusting. I can only imagine what was lurking on those surfaces. Airline executives should have the bathrooms on the executive floors reduced to that size.
It’s about time, as we were the last major country in the world to require it. Shows how politics trumps real science! Good news is if people want to still wear a mask they certainly can.
I hadn’t flown since early March and was looking forward to my flights today as the mandate was set to expire yesterday. Really bummed when they extended it. But someone (Judge) came to the “rescue”. Flights were full and I’d put it at 30% masked. Hey, it’s now a choice. I don’t judge. Vaxed, boosted and still got it TWICE. Not much more than a sniffle each time. Everyone has a personal choice and that’s the way it should be.
It's disappointed the way the mask mandate ended...
I was hoping for a more rule-based approach to mask mandate (something like "if the transmission rate is above x for y days, masks are required, and masks are no longer required after the transmission rate is below z for w days"). Unfortunately, a hasty "OMG-please-impose-it-so-we-carriers-can-have-a-defense" ended with "judges-will-now-make-laws-while-the-beggars-cheer-on" way. *sigh*.
Btw, all of the airlines employees should remember that you people (or your bosses, I don't...
It's disappointed the way the mask mandate ended...
I was hoping for a more rule-based approach to mask mandate (something like "if the transmission rate is above x for y days, masks are required, and masks are no longer required after the transmission rate is below z for w days"). Unfortunately, a hasty "OMG-please-impose-it-so-we-carriers-can-have-a-defense" ended with "judges-will-now-make-laws-while-the-beggars-cheer-on" way. *sigh*.
Btw, all of the airlines employees should remember that you people (or your bosses, I don't care whom, but your ****ing industry) BEGGED for the mask mandate to deal with unruly customers. Now you celebrate? And after all the loans and bailouts? Your industry have been a disgrace over this. And all those celebrating this should be ashamed of yourself. Goodness the government just can't please you, huh? If the rate is high and no mandate, then "OMG the government fails us." If rate is high and with mandate, then "OMG my freedumb." Just, you know, stop hogging public resources when you get sick, I would be very happy.
You honestly think a red light/green light approach to masking is logical? You think "unruly" customers were bad before? Wait until a new arbitrary metric is determined for airplane masking. I swear people are starved for new rules or ways to be "safe" during this pandemic instead of just living.
How about...if you see transmission rates are above X, you wear a mask? Case numbers, hospitalizations, deaths are all at some of the lowest points...
You honestly think a red light/green light approach to masking is logical? You think "unruly" customers were bad before? Wait until a new arbitrary metric is determined for airplane masking. I swear people are starved for new rules or ways to be "safe" during this pandemic instead of just living.
How about...if you see transmission rates are above X, you wear a mask? Case numbers, hospitalizations, deaths are all at some of the lowest points since the pandemic began. Other "cautious" countries have removed mask mandates on transportation. There are no masks required anywhere else in the US, more or less, but sure, lets keep kicking the can down the line waiting for a variant to worry about.
You forgot the token "I don't mind wearing a mask, anyone who doesn't like it is selfish and refuses to save lives!" statement
Covid Zero is never coming...
Show one legitimate study that demonstrates that masks have had any effect on covid transmission rates. Hint, you might find this difficult as there are none. If you want to wear one, that is your choice, and please feel free, but please do not ask me to mask up ever again.
Cite the study, Alan. Is it for surgical or N95 masks, or the bandana / cloth mask that people use.
Total straw man argument. "Because a small stopsign in the country didn't stop a traffic accident, all traffic lights are bad."
And because you pulled a 'burden of proof' argument: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-briefs/masking-science-sars-cov2.html
Vinay Prasad has explained very well why the CDCs “science” on mask wear is quite flawed. The CDC is relying on extremely confounded retrospective observational studies to reach their conclusion.
The only randomized controlled study to date has shown cloth masks had zero effect at preventing the spread of Covid.
In Spain the difference between the rate of Covid in kinda who didn’t wear masks and kids who did based on age was...
Vinay Prasad has explained very well why the CDCs “science” on mask wear is quite flawed. The CDC is relying on extremely confounded retrospective observational studies to reach their conclusion.
The only randomized controlled study to date has shown cloth masks had zero effect at preventing the spread of Covid.
In Spain the difference between the rate of Covid in kinda who didn’t wear masks and kids who did based on age was zero.
In Finland the change in the rate of Covid between the age in which kids did not wear masks and kids who did was also zero.
So the only logical conclusion is cloth masks do nothing to control the spread of Covid. The CDC is dead wrong on this.
The fact that the Judge is only 35 or appointed by Trump is meaningless. They only thing that will matter on appeal was did she interpret the law correctly. Seems like she did.
"The fact that the Judge is only 35 or appointed by Trump is meaningless. They only thing that will matter on appeal was did she interpret the law correctly. Seems like she did."
They are not appealing the case.
@Watson,
"The CDC has the authority to enact regulations related to public health. Try again."
Wrong. They can enact regulations but pursuant to following federal rules including public notice and comment. The CDC did not follow those legally required rules and procedures so the mask rule was struck down. Try again.
Just flew out of PDX this morning and for passengers, I would say that probably 60-70% were not wearing masks. When it came to Alaska employees, I did not see a single person wearing a mask. That included Alaska Lounge employees, gate agents, pilots, and FA's. It was very obvious that airline employees were dying for this nonsense mandate to end. It was so nice for travel to feel normal again and it was also...
Just flew out of PDX this morning and for passengers, I would say that probably 60-70% were not wearing masks. When it came to Alaska employees, I did not see a single person wearing a mask. That included Alaska Lounge employees, gate agents, pilots, and FA's. It was very obvious that airline employees were dying for this nonsense mandate to end. It was so nice for travel to feel normal again and it was also nice for people to be able to choose what is best for them (how it should have been since the beginning)
I feel the say way. That is why I smoke in restaurants. I get to choose what is best for me.
Great point Chuck. After all, everyone knows that exhaling toxic cigarette smoke is the same thing as exhaling oxygen from your mouth without your designer cloth mask on your face. This makes perfect sense
Leon, exactly. Because when you exhale, you certainly don't exhale things like viruses.
Forgive Leon, for he cannot see viruses, therefore they do not exist. If you feel healthy, you must be!
@Leon, exactly. Because when you exhale, you certainly don't exhale things like viruses.
Yes, so why not require a negative test to fly along with banning food / drink service? Is COVID magic where if you are eating it fail to be infectious? Is life so meaningless to the Biden administration that they are willing to sacrifice "GRANDMA LIFE" for some nom noms on a flight?
Jeffrey, it's all about nom noms on a flight and people that don't give up individual freedoms for collective good. That's the start and end of it.
Beauty of this decision is if you still want to wear the mask you can nobody is forcing you to stop wearing one if you feel like it will make you safer.
What a novel concept! Getting to make your own decision for yourself? Imagine that!
I think the Biden admin knew this court case was coming up and that's why they extended it for only 2 weeks, so that yhe "evil Florida judge who was appointed by Trump" could recind the mandate. Best political decision I've seen him make this far. 95% of people can BREATH again, and 5% hyperventilate themselves over nothing!
You're giving him way too much credit if you think this was a tactical decision by this admin. In fact he was just leading from behind as usual, letting the most extreme people guide policy, and then when the failed then ultimately recognizing that he can't put the genie back in the bottom without significant political blowback.
I view it contrarily. Despite not being a fan since the beginning (I voted 3rd party), this is my first major criticism of him. Thanks to his extension, we have to listen to insufferable people take credit for ending the mandate (albeit some are so insufferable they'd be taking credit no matter what).
We were all ready for it to be over yesterday, extending it was lame AF.
*correction... when I say "we were all", I mean pretty much all conservatives and a decent portion of Dems. More than half the country, at least (I'd guess 60-70%+) Obviously there are those who are more extreme.
US District Judge Kathryn Kimball Mizelle made this decision. She was appointed to the federal court in late 2020 by then-President Donald Trump.
She had been rated "not qualified" by the American Bar Association for "the short time she has actually practiced law and her lack of meaningful trial experience
If the brain trust would like to appeal on the merits they are free to, but they are not. Get over it, you can choose not to fly if you like.
Easy for a healthy person to do but not so easy for immunocompromised individuals. But all those people can just stay home right? They don’t have the same right to “life, liberty and the pursuits of happiness” that others do. . .
Exact same thing your side said of those opposing the vaccine mandate: you do have a choice you can continue working or not… remember that? Remember how callous but humorous that was to the bullies on the side of mandates. Well in that same spirit: yes you can stay home…you can drive if you don’t like it! So if you have a problem with that line of reasoning would you have been screaming at the...
Exact same thing your side said of those opposing the vaccine mandate: you do have a choice you can continue working or not… remember that? Remember how callous but humorous that was to the bullies on the side of mandates. Well in that same spirit: yes you can stay home…you can drive if you don’t like it! So if you have a problem with that line of reasoning would you have been screaming at the administration if they had let the mandate expire? Are you screaming at the administration and DOJ not indicating that they were appealing this decision? No they are supplying and you have accepted their scapegoat as they throw up their hands.
Everyone reading note that Sosong is missing the point entirely and that those refusing vaccines are also putting themselves and everyone around them(including the immunocompromised) at higher risk of severe COVID or death . . . Requiring mask wearing is a minor sacrifice to that helps protect those who need our help the most.
You didn’t answer the question Alex, if the Biden administration had let the mandate expire in two weeks would you be just as upset at them you are at this Judge in overturning the mandate. Are you currently upset with the administration for not hinting at an appeal? Because that’s what the airlines were pausing for last night but upon the announcement that the TSA was not going to enforce that’s when the avalanche of...
You didn’t answer the question Alex, if the Biden administration had let the mandate expire in two weeks would you be just as upset at them you are at this Judge in overturning the mandate. Are you currently upset with the administration for not hinting at an appeal? Because that’s what the airlines were pausing for last night but upon the announcement that the TSA was not going to enforce that’s when the avalanche of announcements from the airlines started. Or does all your ire fall on this judge and the people that are happy at this turn of events?
When there are still 500 people dying from COVID every day I do not support the “COVID is over” decisions made by the administration or the CDC.
Fair enough, Covid zero is your benchmark, Covid will always be here thus your benchmark will never be reached. Most people are more realistic.
Yes, I am indeed in favour of COVID zero (deaths). And we're far from there.
@Alex
"They don’t have the same right to “life, liberty and the pursuits of happiness”"
That is in the Declaration of Independence not the Constitution.
"but not so easy for immunocompromised individuals."
Such person can wear N95-P100 mask for the flight. Why not ban meal service too? Is a meal worth that persons life?
Sounds like she was actually qualified as she made the correct decision today.
Great as an adult baby I can now celebrate not having to take a simple action to protect others and save lives! Me, me, me!
Alex it’s over, you are the one coming off like a baby. Everything is getting rolled back and it must be very frustrating to you. Cry if you want! If the administration truly shared your point of view they would have appealed or at least signaled they would. But they aren’t, that speaks volumes! They know it’s a lost cause, just like the OSHA mandates, the eviction moratorium and all the other overreach.
Looks like as an adult baby you are throwing a tantrum that we are all finally getting back to normal, which was inevitable. Deal with it!
If anyone else didn’t know the definition of irony, just take a look at Alex’s post.
It sounds like I am in a nursery! My crying made all the other adult babies cry too! Wearing a mask is sooooooo hard! Waaaaa!
Alex is having a meltdown!
How can you possibly make that claim on an airplane where masks are routinely removed to eat and drink? Oh I guess i forgot you cannot breath and eat and drink at the same time so you must not be exhaling when you eat and drink! This has been a ridiculous policy since its inception.
Alex’s implosion is glorious.
I had just boarded a United flight at IAH when a flight attendant announced (in a somewhat gloating way it seemed) that the mask mandate had ended. I'd say about 25% of the passengers applauded and cheered, and I'm pretty sure the woman across the aisle from me shed a tear or two (I wish I was joking). This was a big departure from a Southwest flight I had out of SMF a couple months...
I had just boarded a United flight at IAH when a flight attendant announced (in a somewhat gloating way it seemed) that the mask mandate had ended. I'd say about 25% of the passengers applauded and cheered, and I'm pretty sure the woman across the aisle from me shed a tear or two (I wish I was joking). This was a big departure from a Southwest flight I had out of SMF a couple months ago where the flight attendant said, "Since, with the exception of a few of you, you are all adults it shouldn't be an issue to be wearing a mask this flight. I've been wearing one for close to 2 years, and after dealing with 1,000 people per day I have gotten sick zero times."
This is king kanute logic. I pray to Jesus every night for the sun to rise again, and every morning it does! Therefore my prayers cause the sun to rise. Pretty much the same logic as you say.
There are also plenty of ppl, like Biden, Harris, Pelosi, AoC, etc. who diligently wore their masks and still got covid. There's also people blike me who only wear a mask when forcibly coerced, and have been...
This is king kanute logic. I pray to Jesus every night for the sun to rise again, and every morning it does! Therefore my prayers cause the sun to rise. Pretty much the same logic as you say.
There are also plenty of ppl, like Biden, Harris, Pelosi, AoC, etc. who diligently wore their masks and still got covid. There's also people blike me who only wear a mask when forcibly coerced, and have been sick zero times.
There is zero evidence of cloth or surgical masks having any statistically significant effect on covid transmission. Zero. N95 is marginal if used correctly, but the law did not mandate n95 that are worn correctly, disposed of immediately, and not touched or disturbed...so the mask rule in effect was safety theater and virtue signaling only.
So keep on virtue signaling, you'll still get 100% of the mask benefits without the mandate. Unfortunately you're also telling the world that you're an unthinking, paranoid and fear driven sheep.
In a couple of weeks, I'm flying United from LAX to HND then to BKK. Curious if the first flight will be mask optional.
It damn better be. Japan does not have a mandate in place, just a recommendation. Grow some steel balls, and don't cave in to putting your mask on by peer pressure when on board the aircraft, or when you land in HND for that matter. Same with Thailand, the mandate isn't lawful and not enforceable, just recommendation.
It probably depends on destination, at least that's how it's been interpreted to date. Japan is too busy with Sakoku for me to notice what their masking policy is.
For those who are critical of the judge, read the ruling. We live in a republic where the legislative body grants regulatory power to the executive. The executive did not have the power to mandate mask warning. They (administration) had based the argument on a 1940s public health law allowing the executive to promote "sanitation." Any common sense person would realize that has to do with cleaning/disinfecting, not mask wearing. Judges should not make up...
For those who are critical of the judge, read the ruling. We live in a republic where the legislative body grants regulatory power to the executive. The executive did not have the power to mandate mask warning. They (administration) had based the argument on a 1940s public health law allowing the executive to promote "sanitation." Any common sense person would realize that has to do with cleaning/disinfecting, not mask wearing. Judges should not make up their own laws; that is the role of the legislative body. Good on the judge basing their decision on the original purpose of the law as written at the time. If folks don't like it, get your reps to changed the law to give the executive/CDC more authority. That is how the system is supposed to work.
The same people who cry about one side trying to tear down democracy are the ones who so desperately want all the power to be held by the executive branch*
(*only if their party is in charge)
But that's kind of everyone, no matter what side.
That's an exceedingly narrow definition of the word sanitation. Sanitation is measures to improve public health by promoting cleanliness. Yes, cleaning is one way. Mandating a mask so that your saliva and snot doesn't land on other people and surfaces is also a way to promote cleanliness in the name of improving health. Your "common sense" definition of sanitation doesn't even allow for trash removal of street sweeping. After all that doesn't really "disinfect" anything,...
That's an exceedingly narrow definition of the word sanitation. Sanitation is measures to improve public health by promoting cleanliness. Yes, cleaning is one way. Mandating a mask so that your saliva and snot doesn't land on other people and surfaces is also a way to promote cleanliness in the name of improving health. Your "common sense" definition of sanitation doesn't even allow for trash removal of street sweeping. After all that doesn't really "disinfect" anything, does it?
Leave it to an unqualified activist judge to revise definitions that have been commonplace for decades. It wasn't common sense that guided her. It was politics.
And regarding your argument about the separation of powers. Let me get this straight: it's legal to phone tap, surveil, and even kill a U.S. Citizen via drone strike with no oversight by judge, jury, or Congress. But make a citizen wear a mask and *now* you're worried about an executive branch overstepping its bounds??
(NB I'm well aware that both sides have supported the war on terror. That's one of the main reasons as a Democrat I don't like Obama. But given your concern about a crazy executive branch run amok with unconstitutional powers, what's your stance on the million other far more harmful and oppressive things that the executive has been doing to Americans for the past 20 years?)
My brother has just boarded the VS5 to Miami, crew and captain announced the wearing of masks is voluntary. None of the crew are wearing, 1 passengers in Upper is masked up and 2 in Premium is what he can see.
Wonder what’s up with those lawsuit cases on CDC’s ridiculous Pre departure testings ? I tried to google but not see much.
Hopefully it’ll reach favorable decision asap before summer travel. It’s clearly unconstitutional to bar Americans from return to home. It’s overdue to muzzle CDC, they are way overreaching last two years.
Nobody is barring Americans to return home…I have entered US around a dozen times since the pandemic begin, and taking a 5 mins test at the airport is not am ultra difficult hurdle -_-
Americans cannot board if they test positive. It’s other way to bar Americans from coming home. A lot of people don’t know they have Covid till they test and it’s stressful to figure out how to extend stays and Wait till they test negative then fly back to home.
Of course Americans could fly to Mexico or Canada and waltz through land borders without test but at what cost? This policy make zero sense
Absolute nonsense. I have known of Americans who tested positive in Cancun, immediately boarded a flight to Tijuana, walked across the border, and caught a flight home from San Diego.
I live in Mexico, and although I've had covid and would be very unlikely to test positive, when I fly to a destination in the US, I take a bus to Texas and fly from there.
Final scene of the motion picture "The Untouchables" comes mind:
A law is law, a mandate is a mandate, a ruling is a ruling...until it is no more.
Costner enforced the prohibition law when it was the law, and chose to drink only when the law was repealed. The...
Final scene of the motion picture "The Untouchables" comes mind:
A law is law, a mandate is a mandate, a ruling is a ruling...until it is no more.
Costner enforced the prohibition law when it was the law, and chose to drink only when the law was repealed. The finest example for a civil society.
As for me, the end of the mask mandate on public transportation changes nothing. I will continue to use my best judgement: when in cramped spaces such as an airplane economy cabin, I will be the "masked man." When in, e.g., UA Polaris business cabin with my own "cubicle", I will allow myself to let my guard down a bit..
G'day.
Man, this is a perfect distillation of how I feel.
Nailed it.
A rule is not a law. A mandate is not a law. A law is a law. Take a civics class if you don't know the difference.
Cahn't make this stuff up!
One must really extra dense to interpret: "A law is law, a mandate is a mandate, a ruling is a ruling...until it is no more" as meaning "mandate is a law or a ruling is a law..."
Goodbye !
Mantis, so the only requirements placed upon you are those which have been established as "laws"? Fascinating approach to life in a shared society.
Well said!
Great news and I’m glad to see common sense take over. I really hope that the antigen test prior to travel will die a similar death. Americans shouldn’t be denied access to their own country based on a test..
That said, I do love the irony of this situation. Republicans are always going on and on against legislating from the bench and activist judges, but here we are…
Masks are no longer required for Uber!
Interesting. I view Uber in a different light. I think drivers and passengers alike should have the option to pair with people who share similar sentiments.
I.E, if the driver wants to keep wearing a mask, he should be able to check a box so he'll be matched with passengers who want to wear masks, and vice versa.
Biggest winner here are the FA’s who no longer have to try and babysit grown ass adults who acted no better than a 5 year old child. Biggest losers are the American people as a whole. Welcome to a world where it’s possible to cherry pick Federal judges who would rather support political agendas than the law. Seems that the average American, who can’t stand either political party, is no longer being represented by anyone....
Biggest winner here are the FA’s who no longer have to try and babysit grown ass adults who acted no better than a 5 year old child. Biggest losers are the American people as a whole. Welcome to a world where it’s possible to cherry pick Federal judges who would rather support political agendas than the law. Seems that the average American, who can’t stand either political party, is no longer being represented by anyone. The days of the mandate were numbered no matter what. I personally don’t think that the way it was ended sets a very good precedent, though.
Do not worry, I am sure there will be some judge in Hawaii to over-rule this ruling and make it nationwide. How is this different that what judges were doing during the previous administration?
I'm sure you were ok with this system when it was single activist leftist judges undermining trump administration actions. Turnabout is fair play. At least this ruling was coherent and won't inevitably be overturned by a higher court...in fact this admin knew what they were doing was unjustifiable and won't appeal.
This morning at MIA about 75% of people had masks on. But this is MIA. If an IQ test was given at airports MIA would come in dead last. The AA AC staff maskless but the servers (not AA employees) were in masks.
Since my upgrade doesn't look likely I'm going to enjoy my first vodka and tonic in coach in over 2 years.
LAX/JFK/SFO are full of the dumbest travelers.
JFK - prior to the ruling lots of workers in the airport were not wearing masks.
LAX/SFO today - maybe ... MAYBE... 50% wearing masks. But I am probably being optimistically high on that number.
Where did Delta use the word “flu” in their statement?
A very welcome news article to wake upto, all the US need to do now is drop the pre departure covid test.
Why? So that you can possibly spread a deadly virus to an immuno compromised person? Do you have ZERO empathy for anyone but yourself?
@LML, I hope your comment is sarcasm. If not, I feel bad for you. Pre-departure tests have done NOTHING to stop Covid from spreading around the world. If it worked, then variants that originated elsewhere wouldn't have made it to the US! Common sense. As for the "immuno compromised" person, they can get vaxxed and wear a mask if they're concerned. I make choices to keep myself healthy. It is nobody else's responsibility to keep...
@LML, I hope your comment is sarcasm. If not, I feel bad for you. Pre-departure tests have done NOTHING to stop Covid from spreading around the world. If it worked, then variants that originated elsewhere wouldn't have made it to the US! Common sense. As for the "immuno compromised" person, they can get vaxxed and wear a mask if they're concerned. I make choices to keep myself healthy. It is nobody else's responsibility to keep me healthy, just like it is not my responsibility to keep another person healthy.
MikeL1986, you took the words right out of my mouth! @LML, if you are pro wearing a mask then, by all means, wear a mask. If you feel you need more protection over and above multiply shots and multiply boosters fine, wear a mask. Don't label me as having ZERO empathy because I have done my part! As a responsible adult, I will make my own choices.
You probably also believe that eliminating fossil fuels in the U.S. will save the planet:(
Funny how many fence straddlers there are. So many "in the name of public health" and 'it's not your choice if it effects me". Same folks who are glad the mandate is gone and well be flying to Hawaii next month. Display confidence, pick a side. If you don't think it's political, read all the comments below.
controversial take it seems but long live the testing requirement
worst way to ruin a holiday before it even starts is to get covid from someone who brought it on the plane, and then be spending $$$ on a hotel just to isolate in it for a week
im all for the minor inconvenience if it helps to mitigate the much larger inconvenience of having covid on a trip
Feel free to have mask 24/7, I don’t think anyone is going to stop you or ask you not to wear.
Even worse would have been getting/giving COVID while wearing a mask. People forget that reduce doesn't meant prevent.
No one EVER said wearing a mask will prevent 100% of all possible transmissions. However the mask does prevent or reduce a large number of them, so who's lives are you ok with loosing because a bunch of idiots are too selfish to face a slight inconvienence for the good of the rest of their fellow humans? Your mother, your son your wife? Who? Your personal freedom ends when your actions (or inactions) cause harm to someone else.
This is a lie. Cloth and surgical masks offer near zero protection in practice. This is a known fact. N95 are marginally effective under limited circumstances. Your entire mask religion is a lie. How do you explain the 2 year long unimpeded spread of thos virus regardless of local, state and national mask requirements?
I am flying United from OGG to SFO tonight. I saw about 25% of people in OGG wearing a mask, and I have not seen one person wearing a mask once onboard. The gate agent was very clearly reading from a new script when announcing that the mask mandate was now optional.
Currently on a OGG to HNL flight.
25% masked 75% nah
2 out of 3 crews masked
Now the bigger question - when is the pre-flight antigen test requirement going to be removed? Given it isn't required for land border crossings it does seem pretty pointless....
Flying back to the States from London today, really, really looking forward to this. Thanks, judge.
I was at heathrow on Sunday and I’d say 50% of people at least we’re not wearing masks.
Was in the air on United from MIA-SFO. Pilot came on the PA an hour into the flight and announced United was no longer enforcing the mask mandate. Plane broke into applause.
Our captain announced it just at 19,000 feet out of MSP to LAX. Probably 50% of people wore masks. 100% of crew took theirs off... (Delta). People clapped.
I've just recovered from Covid so I took mine off, but we shall see if there's an impact.
In an ideal world people would wear a mask if they're sick (no matter with what - coughing is gross) and take personal responsibility.
Just landed .After being bumped out of first class as opposed to a 3 hr delAAy alcohol came back to the main cabin today on American and then they announced in flight that masks are now optional. The FA smiles were ear to ear.
Your have it completely wrong!
"Government makes masks at airports and on airplanes optional". Wrong conclusion!
A Federal District Judge RULED that the BIDEN Administration, Dr Faulty, and the CDC ("Government") NEVER HAD the authority to impose a Mask Mandate.
The "Government" resisted giving up it's arbitrary and capricious arrogated power EVERY STEP OF THE WAY.
Don't give the false impression that the "Government" suddenly decided to do the right thing after months of...
Your have it completely wrong!
"Government makes masks at airports and on airplanes optional". Wrong conclusion!
A Federal District Judge RULED that the BIDEN Administration, Dr Faulty, and the CDC ("Government") NEVER HAD the authority to impose a Mask Mandate.
The "Government" resisted giving up it's arbitrary and capricious arrogated power EVERY STEP OF THE WAY.
Don't give the false impression that the "Government" suddenly decided to do the right thing after months of the Biden dictatorship.
The "Government" plan was to keep us all wearing masks until October and then reward the obedient proles before the election.
The best thing about reading the comments here is finding out that the person I might be sitting next to is a complete and utter moron. I dare you to say this same garbage to my face on the plane.
bbbut the gubernment is taking your freedoms away brother!!!
can't you see the big picture????
we're headed for george orwen 1989 animal crossing dystopia!!!!
@Dempseyzdad
Sure. What flight are you taking?
Come on internet tough guy, I will say it directly to your face. Just tell me when and where.
The problem here is not the mask, it is the culture wars in the USA and the mask is yet another symbol of that.
Masking is complicated and to date there have not been solid double blind randomized control trials on population wide masking. Why because it would be almost impossible to do so in an ethical manner. The studies that have been done to date are not really up to snuff due to their...
The problem here is not the mask, it is the culture wars in the USA and the mask is yet another symbol of that.
Masking is complicated and to date there have not been solid double blind randomized control trials on population wide masking. Why because it would be almost impossible to do so in an ethical manner. The studies that have been done to date are not really up to snuff due to their design and type of study preformed. As such the topic will never be put to bed because each and every person will have their own views on the topic.
Science is not monolithic and there are going to be some scientists who agree and there will be some scientists who disagree that is just part of the scientific process.
With regards to your threat about saying stuff to your face, if you assaulted me in any way, I would ensure that the Police were called, you would be arrested and I would press charges to the fullest extent of the laws of the state that we were in as I would not raise a hand to you.
If people cannot have civil discourse we are not longer a functioning society and the fact that you threaten violence tells me everything I want to know about you, you are caught up in the culture wars and unwilling to listen, think and maybe look past your tribe and engage in civil discourse.
You do realize that the mask mandate was originally imposed by Trump right? Biden extended that mandate several times. Maybe CNN et al should call it the Trump Mask Mandate so idiots like you aren't confused.
Trump brought the COVID regime upon us. He walked right into the trap that was set for him and thought he'd play hero to get out. We have COVID hysteria worldwide because of Donald Trump. In 2024 he needs to just keep playing golf and let an adult-namely Ron DeSantis take the mantle.
Ron??? Him becoming president is as likely as Kaitlyn Jenner becoming president.
>We have COVID hysteria worldwide because of Donald Trump.
In a manner of speaking, I suppose...
Just landed on an IAD-LAS United flight where the captain announced the change mid flight... pretty weird, a few claps, but not much else. Some continued wearing, some didn't. Oh well. Time will tell.
I just wish they stopped requiring the within-one-day COVID-19 test before coming back to the US.
Any news on that?
I was just reading there are no immediate plans to change that, so we're stuck with it for at least a while longer.
Where did you see that? They said something to that effect a week ago, but I didn't see anything today
I’m flying southwest right now. They also are not requiring masks, flying out of ABQ. I’d guess about 50% of passengers are not wearing masks, maybe 30% of crew. Knew it was coming but some notice would be nice lol. Weird to show up and have the rules changed within a letter of hours!
Just boarded a flight from Denver to Seattle and I would call it a 50% mask to no mask ratio. Possibly even more no masks.
I have not seen an airline employee wearing one yet.
I will still wear a mask for a while when in a crowd, such as walking through CLT, at a crowded gate boarding, or in my seat when passengers are still walking by me as they board. But, once everyone is seated on the plane, I will feel there is no need for me to wear the mask anymore.
Next up - 1 day pre-departure testing. Abolish that shit, please. That’s worse than any mask mandate (which mind you has been enforced very loosely in the last 6 months anyway)
I think it's about time to get rid of the mandate. Especially with high-quality N95/KN95 masks more readily available now, those that want to protect themselves can wear one of those.
I probably will on planes since it's such close quarters, and let's face it, some people are pretty vile there. I won't at the airport though since the space is generally pretty wide open.
Funny, I thought just the opposite from you. I won't wear a mask on the plane because the air is filtered and replaced every two minutes, but I will continue to wear a mask in the airport because of the poor air circulation.
Having N95s doesn't mean diddly if people won't wear them.
I'm happy that the mask mandate is gone, but the fact that a judge did it sets a terrible precedent for public health.
If it was properly promulgated to begin with instead of sidestepping the normal rule making process the judge would not have struck it down. To let a mandate stand that was not properly inacted would have been a terrible precedent. Make rules the way they are supposed to be made and they’ll stick!
The CDC has the authority to enact regulations related to public health. Try again.
I want to live in a democracy, not a technocracy. I don't care how much "for my own good" a piece of regulation is. If it is passed without the consent of its population, especially in a non emergency (There is currently no real public health emergency. It's endemic and over with. Deal with it.) it is bad. The only behavior COVID has permanently changed for me is my voting habits
That’s incorrect, all government agencies (FAA, CDC, whatever) have a certain process to promulgate rules and regulations…even emergency orders, that was not followed here (during the Trump administration no less) That’s the crux of the issue here. Just like the eviction moratorium that was struck down months ago, the proper processes were not followed initially then it was extended beyond the emergency authority of the agency. Anyone who has dealt with a governmental alphabet agency...
That’s incorrect, all government agencies (FAA, CDC, whatever) have a certain process to promulgate rules and regulations…even emergency orders, that was not followed here (during the Trump administration no less) That’s the crux of the issue here. Just like the eviction moratorium that was struck down months ago, the proper processes were not followed initially then it was extended beyond the emergency authority of the agency. Anyone who has dealt with a governmental alphabet agency knows this. Try again!
Watson,
So you are happy it was rescinded but unhappy a government bureaucracy faced some pushback…..that’s how our system works the constant checks and balances between the branches, if the executive feels strongly about the precedent this sets they are duty bound to appeal…..but they won’t, and that says a lot in itself. If you would like to read the order, then still have misgivings that would at least be an informed opinion!
https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/21636220/047124235804.pdf
Watson,
So you are happy it was rescinded but unhappy a government bureaucracy faced some pushback…..that’s how our system works the constant checks and balances between the branches, if the executive feels strongly about the precedent this sets they are duty bound to appeal…..but they won’t, and that says a lot in itself. If you would like to read the order, then still have misgivings that would at least be an informed opinion!
https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/21636220/047124235804.pdf
Sosong, "under section 361 of the Public Health Service Act (42 U.S. Code § 264), the U.S. Secretary of Health and Human Services is authorized to take measures to prevent the entry and spread of communicable diseases from foreign countries into the United States and between states." The Trump-appointed judge (rated "not qualified" by the ABA!) simply did not like the order due to her political bias.
LOL Dan. Classic misdirection - "you can't have...
Sosong, "under section 361 of the Public Health Service Act (42 U.S. Code § 264), the U.S. Secretary of Health and Human Services is authorized to take measures to prevent the entry and spread of communicable diseases from foreign countries into the United States and between states." The Trump-appointed judge (rated "not qualified" by the ABA!) simply did not like the order due to her political bias.
LOL Dan. Classic misdirection - "you can't have an opinion if you haven't read the raw source material". I'm sure you also read all 900 pages of the ACA before you decided to hate that too.
I'm in flight now. Nearly everyone, including the crew, are wearing masks still. A few chin strappers and d-nosers, but mostly compliant. No announcement. We departed right after the "ruling" came out and before the Biden administration sent the guidance that set off the relaxation by the airlines. I'll see what is happening at my connection point (DEN) and add further.
"Covid is not political" lmao. It took a court to end a mask mandate that's been in place for almost 24 months. I certainly expect folks to continue to wear masks. Your body, your choice. Nonetheless, this is nice to hear and hopefully stays permanent through Sleepy Joe's nap.
I think the mask mandates were to protect everyone, so not "my body, my choice", so shut your trap!
And I'm for lifting the mask mandate too!
You can think whatever you want. What you "feel and think" doesn't matter. I'm sure you certainly feel unprotected now lmao. Ya donkey.
Serious question here: as I understand it, the mask mandate came from an executive order. But it seems here that the judge is saying the CDC exceeded their authority. Can someone just fill in the gap for me?
To be clear, I'm not taking a side. Just genuinely confused
The mandate was made by the CDC and enforced by the executive. The CDC as an agency is vested with significant power regarding public health.
But if the president authorizes the enforcement of a mandate from an agency then how is that exceeding authority given that presidents have pretty wide latitude in executive orders?
Tell that to Trump! Of course, how soon we forget that many of his earlier executive orders were rescinded after federal judges with limited geographical jurisdiction (typically Hawaii or Cali) would issue NATIONWIDE injunctions. Turnabout appears to be fair game here...
Both Jetblue & Southwest also announced masks being optional on their flights. I think last remaining major airlines to announce are Spirit & Hawaiian.
Flew from Frankfurt to the US today - in the Lufthansa first class terminal, there were probably 5-10% of guests wearing masks. The staff told me it was required for staff but not for guests. On the flight, there was a mask mandate, but it was very loosely enforced, at least in first.
On an AA flight right now departing DFW - probably 90% masked on the plane, including all of the crew. There hasn't...
Flew from Frankfurt to the US today - in the Lufthansa first class terminal, there were probably 5-10% of guests wearing masks. The staff told me it was required for staff but not for guests. On the flight, there was a mask mandate, but it was very loosely enforced, at least in first.
On an AA flight right now departing DFW - probably 90% masked on the plane, including all of the crew. There hasn't been an explicit announcement (that I've heard) of the policy change.
Update: Shortly after we closed up, the captain made an announcement that they had heard the news, but didn't have anything official from AA yet. He suggested it was a grey area, and to discuss amongst your seat mates if you were comfortable removing your masks.
A few minutes later, while still on the ground, he came back with an update they had received the update that masks were indeed optional, and that anyone who...
Update: Shortly after we closed up, the captain made an announcement that they had heard the news, but didn't have anything official from AA yet. He suggested it was a grey area, and to discuss amongst your seat mates if you were comfortable removing your masks.
A few minutes later, while still on the ground, he came back with an update they had received the update that masks were indeed optional, and that anyone who wished to wear a mask could, of course, continue to do so. He also explained that some airports may still require them per local ordinances.
I thought it was very well handled for being such a dynamic situation. I didn't notice many people removing their masks with that announcement, but I wasn't able to see many passengers. The cabin crew kept their masks on.
My brother was on a flight, they announced it and everyone started taking their masks of: cheering and waving!
Thanks to the judge, this was very much needed to be done. Otherwise I believe there was about zero chance of this ending on May 3 with constant new extensions with rising new cases as the excuse.
yea.. don't really care, I will still wear a mask. How about we get rid of the 24 hr test before arrival? That would actually lower my stress when traveling, thanks.
Yeah I could care less about the mask. It's the 24-hour test that sucks.
I think that's next. The inbound testing rule is stupid.
I returned to the US last week from Thailand. Did a local legitimate 24-hr preflight test (in lieu of the telehealth). Was only US$15 for Antigen and they produced negative result (in a mere 15 seconds) after sticking swab up one nose. I wasn't aware they have tests this quick but when you think about it, do locals really want you to stick around their country if you're positive? ..and yes, it was a hassle;...
I returned to the US last week from Thailand. Did a local legitimate 24-hr preflight test (in lieu of the telehealth). Was only US$15 for Antigen and they produced negative result (in a mere 15 seconds) after sticking swab up one nose. I wasn't aware they have tests this quick but when you think about it, do locals really want you to stick around their country if you're positive? ..and yes, it was a hassle; I even had a local friend look this up and drive me there; would not have been easy w/ a taxi.
I am going to breathe my Covid breathe all over all of you non-stop next time you sit next to me on the plane. Huf. Huf. Huf. Huf. I'll be turned in your direction too. Hahahaha!!! Just you wait!
Mid flight on ASA from Mexico and FA announced the new ruling - masks we’re off within 30 seconds with the most excitement shown by the FAs.
Currently inflight on AA MIA-LAX, flight attendant just announced it over the PA. Not a mask in sight in J.
Florida Plane
What about jet blue? Was looking to book them for tomorrow because the timing was good but will rather fly with UA if they still require masks
Lol. No one will mandate masks tomorrow. But seriously, make decisions based on such ridiculous criteria.
It's terrible that a federal judge rather than public health professionals ended up removing the mandate, but it's great for the Biden Administration and the Democrats in general as it provides political cover for the Biden Administration and Democrats to boo-hoo the ruling from a Trump-appointed judge while doing nothing about it (not appealing it). At this point Covid is endemic and the mask mandates needs to go bye bye. If the Biden administration does...
It's terrible that a federal judge rather than public health professionals ended up removing the mandate, but it's great for the Biden Administration and the Democrats in general as it provides political cover for the Biden Administration and Democrats to boo-hoo the ruling from a Trump-appointed judge while doing nothing about it (not appealing it). At this point Covid is endemic and the mask mandates needs to go bye bye. If the Biden administration does appeal the ruling, the ruling gets overturned, and the mask mandate comes back, the slaughter for the Democrats this fall will only get worse. Please don't appeal the ruling Joe...
They won't. It was set to expire again on May 3 anyway. By the time the appeal goes through it's already too late. It's done.
Well, thinking about the continual extension of the student loan payment pause, I am not so optimistic about the May 3 expiration date of the mask mandate (it could easily get extended into perpetuity). It's too political an issue on both sides of the aisle for logic to intercede when it comes to this issue (before widespread vaccinations, natural infections, and therapeutics the mask mandate made sense, but not so much now).
How about just paying the debts you sign your name to?
They likely would have sought a stay of the ruling pending appeal, which would have allowed enforcement to stay in place.
Airlines had announced that they were still enforcing the mandate, likely specifically because of this possibility, as they wouldn't want to drop enforcement and then have to backtrack if the ruling were stayed.
Only when the DOT said they would no longer enforce the mandate did they say they no longer require masks.
You have it backwards. The Court''s decision is a political liability for the admnistration because it prevented the government from taking credit for what is obviously a very popular decision. The Court would have provided cover for the administration if it had upheld the mandate.
The Biden Administration and the Democrats are at the national level beheld to a large degree to the Greta/AOC Woke wing of the party (Millennial coastal types), who would have been critical of removing the mask mandate. Now the Biden/Clinton types (more moderate Dem's) who probably hate the mandate themselves can blame a Trump appointed judge instead
What about jet blue? Will probably travel tomorrow and was looking to book jet blue for the timing put Will definitely go with someone else if they still require masks
Jetblue is too busy dealing with operational meltdowns yet again to deal with this.
Another 7% of flights canceled and a whopping 39% delayed today. By far the worst of all airlines in the US today.
Not required, but I intend to keep wearing one for now
As do I. And no one should bat an eye or give you grief for that. I hope!
Shut up Mike
I was in Orlando airport after this was announced this evening and it was about 60/40 with mask wearing. To contrast this, I was also in the airport this morning before the ruling and it was about 80/20.
I think in the next several weeks we'll average out to be 60% maskless, 40% maskfree, but different flights/airports/regions will have vastly different behaviors.
That’s interesting …. Maskless vs mask free. Please do tell us the difference!
Maskless and mask free??? What???
Yep, summer time travel is going to be very bumpy. But remember, we did this to ourselves.
Did what mon?