Finally: Australia & New Zealand Launch Quarantine-Free Travel Bubble

@wanna travel, you are exactly the reason why we need the nanny state here in oz. You think you should be free to go to concerts and travel around freely because if you get Covid you won’t die. You completely miss the point. You can kill other people in the process. It’s because of that attitude that your states’s premier Anastasia has kept you under lock and key. And she was easily re-elected in the process. Obviously your neighbors wisely out voted you. Stay home, and stop whinging.

What I don’t get about this debate every time it happens is that there seems to be some assumption that it is your god-given right to travel and have freedom of movement. It’s not.

Your country of citizenship grants you permission to travel, it’s called a passport. You are not entitled to one. On the flip side you are not just entitled to go anywhere you want, the country you want to enter has to grant you a visa, even if it is Visa on Arrival and you barely noticed it happening at an electronic entry point.

We’re are not being denied “freedoms and rights” they have just rescinded permission temporarily.

That being said, I would like a refund for two years of my “locked” Aussie passport because omg they are so expensive. I didn’t realise until I was having a whinge while renewing and a Swede, a Brit and an American were scandalised by how much I had to pay. Turns out it’s one of the most expensive in the world so at least they could credit us the proportional amount that it’s been deactivated for hahaha, but seriously.

In light of the again-announced travel bubble for Australia/NZ (hope it doesn't pop before it gets going) I'm wondering what Qantas' position is re vaccinations for would-be international passengers.
Some may recall that Qantas CEO Alan Joyce a while ago announced that all international travellers on Qantas would need to be vaccinated against Covid-19; something I would personally support.
Needless to say, there was a degree of pushback from the usual suspects, and AFAIK there is no firm policy on this issue. As AUS/NZ travel is (just) international travel, Qantas needs to step up and provide clarity since travel will start in less than 2 weeks.
As I see it, no-one will be fully vaccinated at that time except those lucky few who finagled a Pfizer shot, with just a 3 week interval between shots. (Not unsurprisingly that cohort is heavy with politicians, Health Dept. honchos, and some, ahem, Important People.) Everyone who are getting the heavily promoted AstraZeneca vaccine (Cheap 'n Easy) has to wait 12 weeks between shots, and a couple of weeks extra for full effectiveness to kick in.
Due to the Australian Government's shambolic roll-out of the vaccines (mustn't talk about Pfizer though) only a miniscule percentage of Australians have to date got a first shot of anything. Lies and obfuscation about availability are on a Trumpian scale.

I live in Melbourne. We did it tough. To hear people talk of freedom is hysterical. Children, even in Melbourne have been back at school since September last year. We only have to wear masks on planes and in Melbourne, on public transport. Gosh in Melbourne we are only allowed 100 people in our house at once! How are we supposed to cope with that?
As for tourism, both Sydney and Melbourne city hotels are doing it tough. Still low occupancy. Regional travel Is booming though. Luxury hotels are pretty much booked out this year.
I am both lucky and taking a risk. I have Sal Salis booked, Bamarru plains and Safire Freycinet booked plus a number of less expensive places. Currently I am in Perth. Seriously- what pandemic? WA has by far been the strictest state. They are geographically large and had to protect their large and remote indigenous communities- which they did a great job of. If anyone is questioning whether West Australians agree with it, you just need to look at the recent election results (no fraud or insurrections).
Would I love to travel internationally? Absolutely- I cancelled a 4 month holiday.

Due pre existing health conditions, I have been fortunate to have my first vaccine. The rollout of the vaccine in Australia has been appalling.

I live in Brisbane and we have had some of the most oppressive domestic border closures in the country. No one feels safe booking a holiday even within Australia because the state premiers will shut out all residents of any state which gets even one case of Covid (leaked out through the equally oppressive hotel quarantine program. Or is you happen to be in another state you could be stuck in hotel quarantine at the drop of a at because they apply restrictions retroactively. Example: Melbourne people fly to Queensland for a beach holiday. Covid is found in QLD. Either you can't go home to Melbourne on time. Or you could be literally on the plane and think you are ok, then when you land you discover the rules changed and off to quarantine regardless of your own personal health. And there is nothing you can do as an individual to prevent this. We have a domestic flight tomorrow. We have been staying home as much as possible because we don't want to be connected with any potential "close contact" location. Example: Covid case is discovered by contact tracers to have eaten at ABC Restaurant between 6-8pm. You just happened to be eating there too. Boom! Get tested and stay at home for 14 day regardless of the results! Holiday plans kaput! A music festival in Byron Bay, NSW was cancelled because ONE man caught Covid from a group of ladies at a hens party in the same pub. Millions of $ from the promoters/musicians lost and thousands of people who travelled all over the country to attend left with useless tickets (which will be refunded, but trip in vain).

So I don't feel safe and free here to live a "normal" life. I would rather just get the damn virus, worst case scenario for me would probably 2 crappy weeks then some degree of natural immunity. Given my medical history I would probably be asymptomatic. I rarely even get a cold or the flu. But better in my view than this instability and lack of freedom we have now! I am desperate to travel overseas. I can take care of myself and be socially distant in circumstances that require it. I can stay at home when necessary to avoid messing up a future trip or upon returning from a trip until I get tested. I am 60 years old, not "vulnerable" but not a spring chicken. I want to make my own choices and I can be socially responsible at the same time. I don't want a effing nanny!!

And yes, the vaccine rollout here is a joke! I think we MAY have passed Rwanda in international vaccines last time I looked?

The science is settled. New Zealand has shown the way to zero covid. The Biden administration has decided that some level of deaths are acceptable - unfortunately it appears the trend is towards more deaths with at least one mutation likely responsible for an increase. I get that red state governors would not listen to Biden. But there is nothing stopping him from stopping all international travel with the exception of mandatory quarantine for returning citizens. Blue states could also ban interstate travel from areas of high infection. Not sure if Biden is beholden to donors such as airlines, fears an economic crash or thinks many democrats wont accept such closures just as republicans won't. In any event Biden owns these deaths.

@george and @jamie, get a grip. As @snic rightly pointed out, most people don't travel or leave their country, ever! And they're very content doing so until the day they die, and if they travel, they do so regionally. It's not the end of the world and a non-issue for most. It's just likely the opposite—that you are unable to stay put in one place or control yourself or make sacrifices. Not that you don't want to, but rather that you're actually incapable of.

I'm loving that no one is really desperate for Americans to come to their country or for the rest of the world to go and visit the US, and that tourism from US dollars is not really critical. After all, the US has proven that it's really not much different from a third world country. The American dream and way of life is just a façade. Take off the veil and the Benjamins, and it all falls apart.

@jamie on a thread about Australia you can write “ There is no straight line from border closings to reduced mortality.”

Australian an New Zealand show that there is a straight line from border closure to reduced mortality, that runs through hotel quarantine and strictly enforced lockdowns. (And a population. That loves obeying rules)

The evidence is clear. Australia had its first COVID death all year yesterday and it was a 77 year old man who’d been brought from PNG for treatment.

COVID can be brought under control if people stop moving around and interacting with each other. Yes border closures are hard, yes lockdowns are hard, but millions of avoidable deaths is a lot worse. If western values is letting people die needlessly then I want no part of it.

Now where Australia is failing is in the slow motion car crash of a vaccine rollout, that has its roots in a federal government that was too slow about this last year and is spending its energy right now on spreading blame around rather than fixing anything.

@andrew ok a few facts please. There is no straight line from border closings to reduced mortality. There is no evidence that this has worked anywhere. We won’t know this till every border is open and there are apple to apple comparisons. The US isn’t even in the top ten for deaths per million. In fact some of the countries that are had much stricter border policies than the US. Also if you want to call yourself a “free country” then denying someone to see their dying parents probably makes you something else. Closing borders has a huge, enormous cost that will be paid back over decades, not years. Deaths are horrible (obviously) and should be avoided, but the government not letting its own citizens out of the county is corrosive and over time will lead to a place that is the antithesis of western values.
Also, it’s a little arrogant to think ANZ with the vaccine is totally out of the woods and that these populations aren’t still highly vulnerable. Nobody knows how this will play out , but based on history, I’d rather have gone through the pain (developing natural antibodies) and come out the other end, than totally rely on a vaccine that’s been around for 6 months.
Border closings are the Diet Coke of the pandemic. Tastes great but will still make you fat.

@Andrew I guess you hope that the vaccines work against every variant, right? Also, I guess you hope that natural antibodies don’t give a level of protection not afforded by the vaccines. You also hope your benevolent masters let you out based on the two prior hopes. Also, you hope that the world hasn’t forgotten you and still wants to come visit/invest in your country (see Chinese). You also hope there’s no COVID 22 or COVID 23 to start the process all over again. Listen my point is that this is Mother Nature. Man rarely wins against her. So at some point you have to pay the piper. To think shutting your borders and taking away the freedom of citizens to see their dying parents or enter their own country is a Faustian bargain that history will look very dimly on. Also, now of course the precedent is set so expect governments to do this a lot more in the future. Freedom with an asterisk is not freedom.

@Jamie and Alex_77W

There are vaccines now. It's not pushing the problem down the road. It's waiting until they have enough people vaccinated to have herd immunity. Then they will open up their country. The US has had 1 in 500 people die of Covid or over 550k (the entire cities of New Orleans and Fort Lauderdale combined). New Zealand has had 26 deaths or 1 in 200,000 people die (or around the amount of people on a soccer team). If the option was to destroy New Orleans or Fort Lauderdale or not travel internationally for 2 years, I don't think this would be even a question.

What Australia, New Zealand, and several other countries are doing is nothing new. The history knows of several island nations that were in isolation only to vanish later because of lack of the proper immune response once they encountered foreigners. Whole countries were closed for very long time - an example is Sakoku period in Japan. The only problem is that none of such small and large scale isolation have proven to be successful in a long run.
And by the way, there is no problem with traveling within USA - planes are at capacity and several resort areas are sold out day after day. I have been to Australia quite a few times (primarily on business) and have no immediate desire to travel there whether or not they are open for tourists.

There was a story yesterday (you censor links so I can't post it) on The Age about a coalition of businesses calling on the government to re-open Australia when their vaccination program has reached the tier where all of the 50+ people (and those with comorbidities) have been vaccinated. The rest of the anglosphere (as well as a big chunk of Asia) will be ready to travel by then, and Australia's tourism industry will be completely shut out of the pent-up demand travel bonanza.

@george riiiight, it’s been so awful to live with little or no restrictions and not have to deal with the deaths of thousands. I have absolutely missed going overseas. But even if I was allowed to, I have little appetite to visit other countries where there have been local community transmission. I have however, enjoyed travelling around my massive country knowing the chances of becoming infected are so incredibly low. Domestic Australian travel capacity is currently up around the 80% mark.

I am looking forward to visiting New Zealand in a few weeks and again in July.