Two years ago, no US airlines flew to Brisbane, Australia. Then in late 2022, United launched flights from San Francisco to Brisbane, and then in late 2023, launched flights from Los Angeles to Brisbane. This upcoming peak season, American will add flights from Dallas to Brisbane, and Delta will add flights from Los Angeles to Brisbane.
What’s going on here? Nothing against Brisbane, of course, because it’s no doubt beautiful, and many people love the Gold Coast. But why are US airlines suddenly adding so much service? What changed overnight? As you’d expect, it’s not a coincidence, and the explanation isn’t just a sudden increase in demand.
In this post:
Queensland government offering subsidies for Brisbane flights
As flagged by Enilria, the government of Queensland is promoting how it’s offering massive subsidies to US airlines adding flights to Brisbane. All three airlines are receiving significant support from Queensland’s $200 million Attracting Aviation Investment Fund.
These routes are supported by the government of Queensland for a period of three years. Here’s what the government views as the economic upside:
- United’s flight from San Francisco, operating since October 2022, supports 227,000 inbound seats and $151 million in visitor expenditure over three years
- American’s flight from Dallas, starting October 2024, supports 140,000 inbound seats and $113 million in visitor expenditure over three years
- Delta’s flight from Los Angeles, starting December 2024, supports 271,000 inbound seats and $208 million in visitor expenditure over three years
With these increases in service, total seats between the United States and Brisbane are increasing to 178,000 as of 2024, and to 247,000 as of 2025. With these incentives, Queensland is essentially paying hundreds of dollars per seat operated to the airport.
Do airline subsidies like this make any sense?
Of course these subsidies explain why we’re seeing this sudden increase in service to Brisbane. US carriers tend to have an excess of wide body capacity in the northern winter, and these incentives make these routes much more likely to succeed.
Still, I can’t really make sense of how this makes any financial sense, or how this is the best way that the government’s money could be spent:
- Demand for travel between the United States and Brisbane isn’t just going to triple or quadruple overnight, so offering massive incentives to all these airlines seems like an overkill
- Many passengers will simply use these flights to connect in Brisbane rather than another Australian gateway, which doesn’t do much to contribute to the Queensland economy
- After the subsidies run out, I’m curious how many of these flights end up being maintained in the long run
It’s not uncommon for airlines to get incentives for starting new service to airports. However, the amounts are typically in the hundreds of thousands of dollars, or even in the low millions of dollars. In this case, each airline is getting tens of millions of dollars in incentives, which is a massive amount.
I just question how many people will end up spending a lot of money in Queensland because of these flights, who wouldn’t have otherwise done so. To what extent are people motivated to visit a destination just because there’s a nonstop flight, rather than visiting the destination they intended to visit?
I just have to imagine that the amount of money spent by the government per incremental visitor who wouldn’t have otherwise visited Brisbane is astronomically high. But I could be wrong.
Bottom line
This winter, we’ll see all of the “big three” US carriers flying to Brisbane, with service from a total of four gateways. As it turns out, these flights aren’t being added due to some massive increase in demand, but rather due to a massive increase in incentives.
For the next three years, the government of Queensland is paying each of these airlines tens of millions of dollars to maintain this service. I find these kinds of incentives to be questionable, as I wonder how much actual additional tourism these routes create.
What do you make of these incentives being offered for Brisbane flights?
As a UA 1K I will use easy application of upgrades to connect elsewhere in the region
Is this write up some kind of subliminal message suggestion? There is demand everywhere but Australia seems a bit to far away for the average North American like me.
Not really anything subliminal or any other message involved. The North American readers of this blog are a particular subset of people there, who are interested in developments in global aviation, even in places that are far away and about which they know little (spoiler: not all readers are from there, there are even some in Australia, for whom North America is 'a bit far away'). There are even readers of the blog who see...
Not really anything subliminal or any other message involved. The North American readers of this blog are a particular subset of people there, who are interested in developments in global aviation, even in places that are far away and about which they know little (spoiler: not all readers are from there, there are even some in Australia, for whom North America is 'a bit far away'). There are even readers of the blog who see discussions of routes to far away places as a source of information and evidence about the health or otherwise of any US carrier involved.
Okay, I'm guilty. A couple of weeks ago, I flew on UA SFO-BNE-SFO on a Bucket List holiday in the sun. Award travel was a lot cheaper to BNE than to SYD or MEL, and the Sunshine Coast, littered with nice small resorts on the Pacific, was cheaper than a cardboard box in Sydney or Melbourne. Got a lot of sun in the middle of the Northern Hemisphere winter and had fun.
The flights were...
Okay, I'm guilty. A couple of weeks ago, I flew on UA SFO-BNE-SFO on a Bucket List holiday in the sun. Award travel was a lot cheaper to BNE than to SYD or MEL, and the Sunshine Coast, littered with nice small resorts on the Pacific, was cheaper than a cardboard box in Sydney or Melbourne. Got a lot of sun in the middle of the Northern Hemisphere winter and had fun.
The flights were not as crowded as ones to SYD or MEL. If you want to get to Australia from the US, BNE is still a hidden gem, with great connections onward and a pretty easy airport to navigate. And there are lots of things to do in Brisbane if you're not insistent on seeing the Sydney Harbour Bridge. All in all, it was a good choice.
I had no idea that my trip was being subsidized by the taxpayers of Queensland. To them, I apologize. I just saw a bargain on MileagePlus. I hope you can forgive me.
@ORD-Is-My-Second_Home your very welcome, warm regards
Queensland taxpayer lol
But it's really a good thing, that will hopefully generate interest on its own (without having to be subsidized) and wont require more funding as such in the future. In any case I think once the Brisbane Olympics 2032 comes and goes Brisbane will have its own "staying power" as a lot more people will come to know Brisbane for what it is, just...
@ORD-Is-My-Second_Home your very welcome, warm regards
Queensland taxpayer lol
But it's really a good thing, that will hopefully generate interest on its own (without having to be subsidized) and wont require more funding as such in the future. In any case I think once the Brisbane Olympics 2032 comes and goes Brisbane will have its own "staying power" as a lot more people will come to know Brisbane for what it is, just as Sydney did.
P.s. I have always wanted to visit Chicago
Whats the point of the subsidy if the airlines sell the tickets for the same price they sell for other cities. Im not finding any fares for the searchable future significantly cheaper to Brisbane. This subsidy definitely isnt going to work if the airlines are just gonna take 100% of the profit.
The point is not to be cheaper. Its about offering nonstop service to a city that most Australia visitors don’t normally bother with.
That is the point.
The economics of the route don’t support the pricing that they are charging.
The subsidies allow them to offer the route at a competitive price.
Surprising that not a single mention of Air Canada in this whole shootout.
AC has been flying 787 to Brisbane direct from Vancouver since June 3, 2016.
Welcome to the club, boys!
I can see at least one of these routes not lasting 3 years, Brisbane is the dullest city among Australia's 4 main cities anyways lmao
The real question is... Why are all the US airlines suddenly flying to Auckland? Not only has Air NZ significantly increased US capacity over the last 2 years with New York and Chicago only recently being flown, but United has gone from 0 flights originally to daily frequencies from Los Angeles and San Fransisco, American has gone from no flights to daily flights to Los Angeles and Dallas, and now Delta is flying LAX-AKL. On...
The real question is... Why are all the US airlines suddenly flying to Auckland? Not only has Air NZ significantly increased US capacity over the last 2 years with New York and Chicago only recently being flown, but United has gone from 0 flights originally to daily frequencies from Los Angeles and San Fransisco, American has gone from no flights to daily flights to Los Angeles and Dallas, and now Delta is flying LAX-AKL. On top of all this, Qantas is also flying AKL-JFK. Where's all this NZ-US demand coming from? Air NZ flies to 7 North American airports on top of this. (HNL, YVR, LAX, SFO, IAH, ORD, JFK)
Brisbane is hosting 2032 Summer Olympics.
Yeah, but that's eight years away. Why attract traffic now?
They are just prepping you up to get ready. But my giant flat screen TV does a better job.
Its an election year in Queensland so they are spending big
Assuming a 90% load factor, the flights will generate around $820 of expenditure per visitor or, let's say, max $100 profit per visitor. That gives a grand total of $57 million benefit to the Queensland economy over three years. So if the subsidy is less than this and, critically, assuming that all these visitors are new, it's a worthwhile proposition. But there are a good deal of ifs and buts here!
I just flew SFO-BNE-SFO two weeks ago. Seat load factor was definitely not 90%. It was more like 50% to 60% both ways, less than that on the BNE-SFO leg.
Should have just bought some A321XLRs and hit Honolulu, Bangkok, Phuket, Kuala Lumpur, Osaka, Sapporo, Ho Chi Minh, Hanoi. All unserved or just one LCC. Probably end up being the most profitable an Australian airline can be flying internationally. Privatise it and walk away with a profit.
If you are discussing QF, then:
1. QF serves HNL, BKK with both QF and Jetstar services. It also serves multiple Japanese destinations, some seasonally. Phuket is served by Jetstar out of MEL etc. Jetstar (Pacific) has significant routes to Vietnam, and handed its profitable Vietnamese subsidiary JV share to the Vietnamese Government. That is now called Pacific Airlines and is a loss-making subsidiary of VN. Jetstar also serves the SIN-KUL corridor successfully.
2....
If you are discussing QF, then:
1. QF serves HNL, BKK with both QF and Jetstar services. It also serves multiple Japanese destinations, some seasonally. Phuket is served by Jetstar out of MEL etc. Jetstar (Pacific) has significant routes to Vietnam, and handed its profitable Vietnamese subsidiary JV share to the Vietnamese Government. That is now called Pacific Airlines and is a loss-making subsidiary of VN. Jetstar also serves the SIN-KUL corridor successfully.
2. Qantas has already bought A321XLR's.
3. Hate to be the 'bringer of bad news' but Qantas was privatised in the early 1990's (1992-3 IINM). It is listed on the NYSE and German DAX stock exchanges, as well as the Australian ASX
4. The Australian Government holds no stock equity in the carrier.
5. QF is also a 46% owner of Fiji Airways (FJ)
6. QF has consistently - over many years - been one of the VERY few 'investment grade' airlines worldwide. You don't achieve that with significant losses.
7. It has a relatively 'captive' (and dominant) market share, being the 'national' carrier.
8. Perhaps, some research in order, next time?
Brisbane has potential as a hub from North America. It has a growing population. It is arguably a better airport to get to the Gold Coast than Gold Coast airport as it takes almost as long from Gold Coast airport to get into town than it does from Brisbane airport while Brisbane airport has much better amenities. Closest large airport to tourist areas north. Olympics aren't too far away. Overall there is some logic to...
Brisbane has potential as a hub from North America. It has a growing population. It is arguably a better airport to get to the Gold Coast than Gold Coast airport as it takes almost as long from Gold Coast airport to get into town than it does from Brisbane airport while Brisbane airport has much better amenities. Closest large airport to tourist areas north. Olympics aren't too far away. Overall there is some logic to it, no idea if it stacks up financially for the government.
I love the additional capacity...it is getting easier to find award tickets between Australia and the USA!
Ben - I must say that I am disappointed that that you choose to focus on subsidies to US carriers, whilst ignoring the REAL reasons why they are each choosing to fly to BNE.
1. Pre-Covid, the largest influx of travel to Australia in terms of airlines and seats, was that of China (mainland and HKG). It is geographically closer to Australia and each of the major Chinese carriers served each of SYD/BNE/MEL/ADL and PER....
Ben - I must say that I am disappointed that that you choose to focus on subsidies to US carriers, whilst ignoring the REAL reasons why they are each choosing to fly to BNE.
1. Pre-Covid, the largest influx of travel to Australia in terms of airlines and seats, was that of China (mainland and HKG). It is geographically closer to Australia and each of the major Chinese carriers served each of SYD/BNE/MEL/ADL and PER. The major Chinese markets were Shanghai PVG, Beijing PEK, Guangzhou CAN and Hong Kong HKG. Many of our cities were also served by most of the provincial / regional Chinese carriers, as well.
2. It is a fact that China is the last market to recover, post COVID. Clearly, the major Chinese carriers (Air China, China Eastern and China Southern) plus Cathay - are now slowly returning service, but so far mainly to SYD / MEL and PER.
3. So, that has created a re-focus by Australian travellers to other available destinations.
4. This has devolved into a greater focus for Australians to the Pacific Islands, New Zealand, Europe, SE Asia and the USA/Canada.
5. There is a significant spending imbalance between the AUD$ and the US/CAN $, making these two regions significantly more expensive to travel to for Australians. Hence, the attraction to offer subsidies by Queensland to attract visitors.
6. Qantas is in a position where it is currently, chronically, short of wide-bodied aircraft. Part of the reason you are seeing AA offering DFW-BNE. Not because of a state-government subsidy, although that will be welcomed by UAL, DL and AA.
The currency imbalance and offered subsidies (there are State Government AND airport (BNE) subsidies on offer, since the USA offers a large, addressable market - and Governments spend money (subsidies) where they do the most 'good'. Will this attract new carriers? Of course it will.
7. Each of the three US carriers have direct experience and history in the BNE market: AA with QF / Oneworld, DL with its previous partnership with VA (Virgin Australia, who opped BNE-LAX as a DL codeshare) and UAL (due to its long-term 40+ year history of operations to Australia and its new partnership with VA).
8. Qantas holds the majority of the Corporate POS market in Australia by a very long bowshot. Undeniable.
9. Is BNE / USA now going to become 'over-serviced'? Undoubtedly, YES, in the short-term. But don't forget that QF has plans for direct non-stop services to ORD. Another that is under consideration is SEA.
10. UAL is the ;joker' in the pack - already having previously announced an astounding expansion of Australian services a number of months ago .. and just as quickly, retracting those services, by reducing the 'new' frequency services.
11. Most of this 'new' service by UAL and DL is seasonal. Clearly, due to 'flexibility', the US carriers are simply re-positioning aircraft to a more 'attractive' (and possibly more profitable) seasonal market in comparison to winter Europe.
12. It is curious to see (in Tim D's words) see DL choose BNE over MEL (Melbourne). BNE is an addressable market of just over 2 million people, whereas MEL is around 5.7 million. Both cities are culturally different. MEL is a major world city, a huge business hub, an ethnic hub in terms of cultural mix whereas BNE is, well - 'BrisVegas'. Why would you choose to address a smaller market? A reconfigured ex-LAN A350-900 ain't gonna do it, past a seasonal drop. DL and SYD saw that already.
13. I would suggest, that of the 3 US carriers, AA has the best understanding of the Queensland and FNQ (Far North Queensland / Barrier Reef) market, having previous long-term exposure on the DFW-BNE- SYD route as a QF code-share partner. Due to its recent (past 5 years or so) in the BNE market, UA has established a market following. DL is a relatively unknown entity in the BNE market and will need to spend more money on advertising / marketing to establish a local presence and awareness. It will also suffer from a restricted ability to hand off passengers to REX as a codeshare partner, given that REX is primarily a regional-Queensland operator, rather than a true Australia-wide network connector.
14. I am supremely interested to understand DL's 'fascination' with BNE. It will take DL a lot of work. Seasonal international is not a particularly popular concept for international in Australia, although it must be acknowledged that QF has begun to do this with limited destinations such as FCO (Rome).
15. Subsidies, as mentioned in this article, are not the primary focus. It is more an accretion of post-covid, inflated (US) dollar strength, limited Chinese airline service, competition and QF's lack of planning for an unknown / unanticipated, post-Covid world.
Under those circumstances, why wouldn't US carriers 'look a gift horse in the mouth' ? Pure competition. After all, its not as if US airports don't offer 'subsidies' to attract new carriers or existing carriers to serve their demographics. I'd bet that MIA would offer substantial subsidies to Asian / Australian carriers to start non-stops? Lets see, after a few years, whether QF / JL / ANA et al are offered a 'Project Sunrise' subsidy.
Seriously, such subsidies are commonplace the world over, via State / Federal tourism authorities and airports. And, national tourism bodies worldwide engage in them.
all very helpful points.
If BNE and Australia is trying to recover from the lack of Chinese tourists which likely won't come back, then it does make sense to go for the US big 3 esp. given that QF is short of aircraft and can't grow right now. The press release noted that BNE would now be served by each of the big 3 US carriers which they noted are the largest airlines in...
all very helpful points.
If BNE and Australia is trying to recover from the lack of Chinese tourists which likely won't come back, then it does make sense to go for the US big 3 esp. given that QF is short of aircraft and can't grow right now. The press release noted that BNE would now be served by each of the big 3 US carriers which they noted are the largest airlines in the world so there is a point of pride in adding DL to the lineup given that AA and QF have the JV and UA has decades of experience in Australia.
DL does have a history in BNE through its former JV with Virgin Australia. The data didn't go away. And DL is the "youngest" of the big 3 in Australia but has managed to build SYD into double daily during northern hemisphere winter season and at least daily year round the rest of the year.
DL also just started AKL w/ 3X week seasonal and quickly built it to daily seasonal and 3X/ week the rest of the year.
DL carries the most corporate traffic of the big 3 and also is now the largest carrier for Hollywood studio traffic. It isn't surprising that QF has the most corporate traffic for Australia POS but if DL can succeed in getting a disproportionate share of US POS corporate traffic and even a piece of BNE traffic, then they can make the flight work.
The A350-900 is the largest aircraft and has the greatest potential cargo capacity which gives DL an advantage. The 332 which QF uses probably has little to no cargo capability. The 789 which AA uses to DFW probably also has little to no cargo capacity due to range.
And, as noted, DL has deeper pockets to begin and sustain market development.
And, I do expect that DL will add MEL but BNE offers more connection opportunities.
And we still get down to the amount of subsidies that some say don't amount to much of anything but which managed to get 2 new routes announced within weeks of each other on top of one route that was subsidized (SFO on UA) and one incumbent that was not (QF). And LAX-BNE on UA was also not subsidized, was less than daily and was terminated early. Regardless of the amount of subsidy, it isn't a surprise that DL was willing to jump in. If there is a significant subsidy, DL will be the last subsidized carrier of the current 3 routes which could be an advantage.
Regarding point 10, aside from a seasonal LAX-BNE service that had its season shortened, what else has been canceled?
UA was still the biggest US carrier to BNE and the only US carrier to MEL, with service from two gateways. Add in the huge amount of SYD service from SFO, LAX, and IAH, and UA is by far the biggest carrier between the US and Australia.
Yes, even bigger than Qantas.
Flying to BNE makes sense, particularly in the post Covid environment which saw many 'southerners' relocate to Queensland and which in turn appears to have led to an increased confidence and bravado in the state - increasingly new and interesting restaurants are opening, there are the well known and desirable tourist destinations including the Whitsundays, the Great Barrier Reef, Daintree Forest but new ventures are now also cropping up, the weather is always a bonus...
Flying to BNE makes sense, particularly in the post Covid environment which saw many 'southerners' relocate to Queensland and which in turn appears to have led to an increased confidence and bravado in the state - increasingly new and interesting restaurants are opening, there are the well known and desirable tourist destinations including the Whitsundays, the Great Barrier Reef, Daintree Forest but new ventures are now also cropping up, the weather is always a bonus and flying on to Asian destinations is just a little more manageable for international visitors. I will be interested to see how this all develops, and more importantly, and fingers crossed, to see if the more frequent arrival of the US carriers does anything to improve the competition with QF.
Folks, the amount is way over stated; I know. The subsidies are minimal, far less than you’d think and is a relative drop in the bucket and requires in-kind match, though not necessarily actual $$$ (though that can be waived) There’s another big city southwest of Brisbane that actually offers higher subsidies…don’t succumb to the headline…it doesn’t reflect the facts.
so, Ben and Gary both got it wrong?
3 airlines just added a bunch of capacity even though you think there is "nothing to it"
Feel free to show your work or we will go w/ the circumstantial evidence.
and, the chances that there is no impact to other carriers - including QF's incumbent flight - or to UA's SFO flight for which the subsidy will run out well before AA and DL's flights - are indeed minimal.
Enjoy the gossip Tim. Yup, they have it wrong. It’s just headline grabbing gossip. I’m not going to reveal numbers…commercial in confidence, if you’ve ever heard of that. File a public records request if you’re that inquisitive…you don’t need to be an Aussie…and the same for the other airports; though they again can’t reveal commercial in confidence info. Or just keep enjoying and rolling around in the gossip.
And take a look at the other...
Enjoy the gossip Tim. Yup, they have it wrong. It’s just headline grabbing gossip. I’m not going to reveal numbers…commercial in confidence, if you’ve ever heard of that. File a public records request if you’re that inquisitive…you don’t need to be an Aussie…and the same for the other airports; though they again can’t reveal commercial in confidence info. Or just keep enjoying and rolling around in the gossip.
And take a look at the other international activity at BNE in terms of air service, it’s new runway, and big terminal plans to see a bigger picture of what’s happening with the destination.
PS - and NO the airlines do not get tens of millions of dollars for the service. Take off at least two zeros, and in most cases take off three zeros from “tens of millions”!! It’s also a global fund, not just for North America. And again, there’s a bigger city in Oz that tends to offer more…this is standard stuff in the aviation world.
first, no one assumed it was just for US airlines.
second, if you think 3 airlines are going to jump on a route for a 3 year commitment for a subsidy that amounts to less than hundreds of dollars per flight (1% of tens of millions), you are mighty naive.
third, Gary said the subsidies for AA and DL amount to AUD 750 per passenger. Ben said "hundreds of dollars"
Either amount...
first, no one assumed it was just for US airlines.
second, if you think 3 airlines are going to jump on a route for a 3 year commitment for a subsidy that amounts to less than hundreds of dollars per flight (1% of tens of millions), you are mighty naive.
third, Gary said the subsidies for AA and DL amount to AUD 750 per passenger. Ben said "hundreds of dollars"
Either amount yields to tens of millions.
I'm not really interested in the total number.
It is obvious that there is real money and real significant amounts of money at play. AA and DL would not have added flights if there weren't still decent amounts of money on the table.
And the bigger impact may not be for AA or DL but on the competitive situation - for QF and its incumbent route which will compete directly against DL's subsidized flight - and for UA which will have to compete with AA and DL's subsidized routes long after UA's subsidies end.
And, of course, UA's LAX-BNE route - which ended weeks earlier this season than originally planned - is now far less likely to return. Or if it does, UA will simply just be lighting benjamins on fire for all of the world to see.
Let's see how this all plays out but Ben and Gary might be off but not by 100X.
You are very confident with your ignorance on the subject. I am posting without my name that you might recognize, and I have previously acknowledged your knowledge and contributions.
But not on this subject…off the rails when it comes to facts.
Here’s a really simple question. And probably revealing…
How are the funds applied/allocated? By % if you know that much. What about QF support? Do they get support, and how? Have you sat in...
You are very confident with your ignorance on the subject. I am posting without my name that you might recognize, and I have previously acknowledged your knowledge and contributions.
But not on this subject…off the rails when it comes to facts.
Here’s a really simple question. And probably revealing…
How are the funds applied/allocated? By % if you know that much. What about QF support? Do they get support, and how? Have you sat in meetings at DL HQ discussing their position re QF?
why would I sit in any meetings w/ DL or any other airline?
Again, Gary was the first of these 2 forums to put a number on the amount of subsidy and he said it was AUD 750/passenger. THAT is a huge amount of money - not one that I claimed as my own - and amounts to over AUD 250 million for 3 years if DL flew its 306 seat A350s for daily service...
why would I sit in any meetings w/ DL or any other airline?
Again, Gary was the first of these 2 forums to put a number on the amount of subsidy and he said it was AUD 750/passenger. THAT is a huge amount of money - not one that I claimed as my own - and amounts to over AUD 250 million for 3 years if DL flew its 306 seat A350s for daily service for 3 years - and it isn't even offering daily service from the beginning - so there is no reason to expect it would be that much even if we used Gary's number.
second, Ben used the figure of "hundreds of dollars" - which could be as little as 1/3 of Gary's number.
third, YOU said "tens of millions" - I didn't. I didn't use any number of my own. (you might want to reread, in fact, you should)
and then you said it isn't tens of millions of dollars and said to take off 2 zeros - which is equal to 1% - or you said, 3 zeros - which is 1/10th of 1% of the original amount.
Ten million dollars for daily flights over 3 years amounts to 9K/flight - not bad. 1% amounts to 9 dollars (regardless of the currency, hardly worth acting on).
Using even Gary's number, 1% would yield AUD7.50 per passenger - which does not seem like anywhere near worth jumping into a major competitive battle UNLESS DL - the last of the 3 to announce - decided to go after major contracts that would ensure that it would win regardless of the amount of the subsidy.
1/10th of that amounts to pennies on the dollar.
And, yes, I know that subsidies are rarely cash but involve landing fee and gate usage waivers and also include advertising support - which usually requires matching.
But even the former two are real cash expenses if an airline starts service.
Again, I don't know the number and never gave my own figure - because I don't know.
Back off long enough to figure out who you are arguing with about numbers because it isn't me.
and second, the competitive impact on QF as an incumbent and on UA which managed to get some sort of subsidy for 2 years before AA and DL crash the party will be impacted.
Your numbers don't make sense and neither does your logic. To think 2 more airlines would jump into BNE for pennies per seat in non-cash compensation is simply not realistic.
thanks for the vote of confidence in what I have posted before - but, as I said before, you need to show your work not just to me but to others for you to convince us all that "this is no big deal"
Your own statements and the math that support them don't add up to a realistic solution that is very likely somewhere between what Gary stated and what you are suggesting.
DL is not receiving “tens of millions” or even “millions” of dollars to operate 3x weekly for a few months a year. The subsidies are also not an even distribution over a set term. Often they are bled dry during the off season and then the airline ends service, which is likely what will happen here with all the new capacity to BNE.
again, I did not suggest any specific number. Gary did and then Ben provided a more generalized but still significant number.
And the press release specifically says that DL has committed to going to daily, year round service. I am well aware that their incentives are very likely tied to building the service.
and the amount of subsidy has to be significant enough for 2 additional airlines to jump into the market- with DL being...
again, I did not suggest any specific number. Gary did and then Ben provided a more generalized but still significant number.
And the press release specifically says that DL has committed to going to daily, year round service. I am well aware that their incentives are very likely tied to building the service.
and the amount of subsidy has to be significant enough for 2 additional airlines to jump into the market- with DL being the last and most conservative in its tolerance of starting new routes.
It isn't unreasonable to think that DL won't get any subsidies for seasonal, 3 times/week service but there is no way that they can build it to daily, year round service if they don't win corporate contracts.
AKL was announced w/o subsidies but w/ the expectations of gaining corporate contracts and DL quickly built it to daily northern hemisphere winter service and less-than-daily year round. There is no reason to believe that they can't win corporate contracts and subsidies with daily NH winter daily and summer less than daily service.
as to service being maintained only by subsidies, my point is precisely that QF will have to compete against some level of subsidy and whatever UA got for SFO will have lapsed and that does not even include LAX-BNE for which it terminated its service early due to low loads not just for that route but for SFO.
And, if subsidies really don't matter, then it goes right back to my comment on the other article that DL's much higher profitability DOES give it the ability to enter competitive markets and make them work because DL's existing routes deliver much higher profits than AA or UA's.
If DL believes LAX or Australia or both are strategically necessary, then it very well could decide to jump in, be the spoil sport, win corporate revenue and draw a bigger line around itself and AA and UA at LAX.
Instead of telling us all what the subsidies can't be, how about you either post some realistic numbers or decide to just bow out of the conversation precisely because you have access to confidential information which you can't share?
and then Ben will track the BNE flights and we will all speculate which is no different than what is happening now.
I love all this discussion for a new DL route that is only seasonal and only three days a week and is only operating thanks to a subsidy.
I’m still surprised that MEL without a subsidy would not be as strong as BNE with a subsidy.
see the notes below.
The subsidy involves increasing it to daily in 2025 (no date specified) and daily.
More importantly, DL will be getting a subsidy to fly directly against QF's established flight and UA's seasonal extra flight which it started but then early terminated this year, likely because it was cannibalizing its SFO-BNE flight which is subsidized.
As others have noted, LAX is the largest of the 3 subsidized markets, there...
see the notes below.
The subsidy involves increasing it to daily in 2025 (no date specified) and daily.
More importantly, DL will be getting a subsidy to fly directly against QF's established flight and UA's seasonal extra flight which it started but then early terminated this year, likely because it was cannibalizing its SFO-BNE flight which is subsidized.
As others have noted, LAX is the largest of the 3 subsidized markets, there is a Hollywood component to the traffic on LAX-BNE, and DL has the contracts for the majority of those flights. Like LAX-AKL, DL undoubtedly saw the opportunity to grow w/ a subsidy - no different from what AA and UA are receiving from DFW and SFO respectively - but Hollywood traffic is likely more durable.
Because DL is starting and ending last - 2 years after UA - DL might have the best chance of maintaining its flight as subsidies end.
Given that DL has been adding one or two longhaul widebody destinations from LAX per year for the last several years - and gets incentives from LAWA tied to its construction project to grow international flights - DL has every incentive to keep finding routes like this and create a very viable competitor to UA's SFO hub.
as hard as it is for some to admit, DL has a pretty proven track record of growing where other carriers have failed or at their expense
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After that mess at SEA? You must be joking.
feel free to let us know about the "mess" in SEA to which you refer.
I think he means the markets DL has discontinued from SEA, including KIX and HKG. Also, only starting TPE after competitors announced their own SEA-TPE service.
Additionally, you make DL starting BNE service years after UA out to be an advantage. It could be argued that UA starting first gives them the advantage, allowing them to be more firmly established in the market. Their daily service, compared to DL’s 3 times a week, not...
I think he means the markets DL has discontinued from SEA, including KIX and HKG. Also, only starting TPE after competitors announced their own SEA-TPE service.
Additionally, you make DL starting BNE service years after UA out to be an advantage. It could be argued that UA starting first gives them the advantage, allowing them to be more firmly established in the market. Their daily service, compared to DL’s 3 times a week, not to mention UA servicing BNE year-round, seems to back that up.
first, your last paragraph is about BNE, not SEA and has been discussed abundantly.
regarding SEA, there are ample examples of markets which other airlines have cut including UA's entire S. American network from MIA which it acquired from Pan Am or AA's entire ORD to Asia network and everything to Asia and S. America except Tokyo.
Delta said it cut HKG just months before the political unrest started in HKG and the...
first, your last paragraph is about BNE, not SEA and has been discussed abundantly.
regarding SEA, there are ample examples of markets which other airlines have cut including UA's entire S. American network from MIA which it acquired from Pan Am or AA's entire ORD to Asia network and everything to Asia and S. America except Tokyo.
Delta said it cut HKG just months before the political unrest started in HKG and the market began to deteriorate. Not even AA, which is part of oneworld w/ CX, has restarted HKG and flew there from 2 cities, something DL never did.
And there is precisely one US carrier flight to KIX - UA from SFO. DL also cut NGO from DTW and yet there is no basis for arguing that DTW is a failing hub.
As for BNE, UA cut LAX-BNE early due to poor loads. If there is market and DL saw an opportunity, we will see if they can make it work - but the same thing was said about AKL which is now daily seasonal and 3X/week for the rest of the year
And if the subsidies are anything significant at all, then competing against a subsidized airline on the same route is significant. And if it isn't and DL sees BNE as a strategic necessity, then DL's deeper pockets and better ability to sustain the route could well give DL an advantage.
I got a super cheap one-way international flight from Auckland to SFO via Brisbane, and my upgrade cleared almost immediately so regardless of whether or not this actually makes sense I've already come out a winner from this trend :) Thanks Brisbane!
I went to Hamilton Island a few years back and having these flights would have been very convenient from San Francisco. We explored the Barrier reef, Whitehaven Beach, Whitsunday islands and Heart Reef. I would say the Maldives has nothing on this area and Hamilton Island is a lot more accessible. Definitely worth a repeat visit!
Having lived in Brisbane for a time, it certainly makes sense to me. Brisbane has an easy connection by rail to the Gold Coast, and is not that far from Toowomba or to the Sunshine Coast. There are not that many cities in Australia to visit.
Why don’t QLD Gov run some tourism campaigns simultaneously in the US.
Local airlines should partner with these American Airlines to offer QLD destination details.
Travel companies like Flight Centre should partner with US companies or advertise travel packages in the US.
I am not a tourism expert but coordinated initiatives like these may encourage visitors to spend time in QLD.
It's BRIZZbane.
I imagine the LAX flights will stick around given the amount of entertainment industry traffic you see in southern Queensland.
Brisbane’s nickname is Brisvegas due to the fact it is the exact opposite of Vegas, so it certainly isn’t for people staying in Brisbane
Iirc, Virgin Australia used to fly thousands of international seats daily to and from Brisbane, and abandoned those routes when VA was taken over by Bain. So some of the capacity afforded by the US carriers is replacing that.
Also, international passenger traffic is composed of more leisure and fewer business travelers than pre-pandemic. Brisbane is a sun-and-fun destination, which benefits from the shift toward leisure travelers.
I guess all the airlines have the same company or similar team to do the same market analysis and ending up with same results and respond in the similar way. I have a feel in my hometown market. It is like a year, there are so many flights, the ticket price are low, then next year, all airlines except Delta pull off the market, then tickets shoot up really high, delta grab all most all...
I guess all the airlines have the same company or similar team to do the same market analysis and ending up with same results and respond in the similar way. I have a feel in my hometown market. It is like a year, there are so many flights, the ticket price are low, then next year, all airlines except Delta pull off the market, then tickets shoot up really high, delta grab all most all business travels here. Then next next year, the other two came back as the needs are so high. Then over over again.
I’m guessing SFO - BNE sticks around, and the others drop when subsidies end
Can’t wait to (almost certainly successfully) apply a SWU to BNE-DFW tho!
As a Queenslander and joint UK national. This is standard Australian federal practice. Throw as much money at it as possible and hope for the best. lol.
Should we expect the same from the Victoria Government for MEL??? I suppose MEL is a bigger route than BNE.
Let’s see some increased supply of award availability down under to match. This feels like what happened to Cuba
I would love to go to Brisbane actually. I’ve done Sydney and Melbourne. Both beautiful cities especially Sydney. I’ve also done great barrier reefs but didn’t have the time to go to Brisbane. In New South Wales, you can only look at kuala bears. In Victoria, you can pet them but not hug them. So I look forward to go to Queensland just so I get to hug a kuala bear! Brisbane can also be a jumping off point to go to Uluru which I missed last time.
I like Queensland because you can actually pet koalas there! That's all the incentive I need
I wish just one of them would bring back the day flight from LAX-BNE that Virgin Australia used to operate before the pandemic.
Many celebrities and wealthy people are buying property near Brisbane, particularly in places like Bryon Bay (south of Gold Coast). Some in Hawaii (like Zuckerberg and Ellison).
I guess they are planning if things go bad in mainland US.
Anyone remember that Brisbane has the 2032 Summer Olympics? I know that seems far off, but Paris 2024 is THIS SUMMER, then LA in 2028 and Brisbane 2032. Really not that far off. Could be preparing hotels/restaurants/airports for the influx of international attention?
Ben, will OMAAT be offering block or hide or mute functionality, whereby users can hide comments from participants they find annoying, or add no value?
Just curious.
LOL
I second the motion.
Hawaiian used to fly Hnl to bne before the pandemic.
And once the subsidies dry up so will the flights.
the real test will be how QF responds once it has to directly compete against DL's subsidized flights. Even though DL says it won't get to daily until 2025, no date given, QF will be flying against a subsidized competitor on a direct route.
And about the time DL gets to daily, UA will lose subsidies since they started 2 years before AA and DL's routes.
The BNE market will certainly be distorted but...
the real test will be how QF responds once it has to directly compete against DL's subsidized flights. Even though DL says it won't get to daily until 2025, no date given, QF will be flying against a subsidized competitor on a direct route.
And about the time DL gets to daily, UA will lose subsidies since they started 2 years before AA and DL's routes.
The BNE market will certainly be distorted but only 2 of the 4 flights will be subsidized by the end of 2025. Not a great scenario for UA or QF but it is hardly unique compared to what other governments have done.
I welcome the capacity from all of them as a passenger. Upgrade space has been a lot easier to come by going down to Australia than in past years. And base fares are good. I'm guessing lots of folks like me consider BNE/SYD/MEL/AKL pretty fungible as airports for vacation given easy connections once you get down there.
Encouraged me to take a trip to Australia last year I wasn't otherwise considering, though BNE wasn't the route I chose.
I am typing this as I am on my way to Australia exactly thanks to that. Not just upgrades but premium award space was for the most part inexistent for the longest time, and now there so much availability, it's amazing!
Time to fly non-stop to Brisbane before the subsidies end!
Probably a lot of "monkey see monkey do" going on here, especially with the Johnny-come-latelys
There’s a state election coming up and the current Queensland government looks like losing (the same government responsible for the insane state based covid fiasco that saw plastic fences erected in suburban streets on a state border). They’re going all they can to promote growth and jobs (ie: votes). Australia is a high tax country with a lot of government money to waste at its citizens expense. Don’t think for a moment that this is anything more than political.
all very likely true but it doesn't change that subsidies distort markets and impact companies for the long-term.
Let's not forget that Qantas ticked a whole lot of people off w/ their handling of passengers during covid. This could all be a big middle finger to them at the expense of the taxpayers.
And anyone that thinks that QF benefits because of the AA JV, the only one of the 3 subsidized routes...
all very likely true but it doesn't change that subsidies distort markets and impact companies for the long-term.
Let's not forget that Qantas ticked a whole lot of people off w/ their handling of passengers during covid. This could all be a big middle finger to them at the expense of the taxpayers.
And anyone that thinks that QF benefits because of the AA JV, the only one of the 3 subsidized routes that is under a JV, ignore the fact that DL is getting a larger subsidy and the government is directly subsidizing a route that QF operates while the other two supplement QF's LAX flight. It is very unlikely that QF gets enough benefit from the smaller AA subsidy and QF's potential share of it to offset the loss of revenue that QF will suffer as passengers switch to DL's flights at taxpayer expense.
Tim, you might want to think before your type?
Wait till you find out Australias isn’t high taxing
Hate to break it to you old mate, but factually Australia is not high-taxing. Even with our GST/VAT, it has not moved at all from its current rate since its inception over two decades ago. Our income rates are also not high by international standards.
Don’t let facts get in the way of your politically-biased, partisan argument, however.
If Tim isn't being paid for the relentless Delta posts on different blogs, then I think this is pathological. As they say, the sun doesn't need to convince anyone that it shines, it just shines. Similarly Delta or any other successful airline or business doesn't need constant defending, especially not on blogs. Most aviation savvy folks do their own independent research and don't rely only on blogs while the general public don't even care. They...
If Tim isn't being paid for the relentless Delta posts on different blogs, then I think this is pathological. As they say, the sun doesn't need to convince anyone that it shines, it just shines. Similarly Delta or any other successful airline or business doesn't need constant defending, especially not on blogs. Most aviation savvy folks do their own independent research and don't rely only on blogs while the general public don't even care. They choose their flights mostly based on cost or convenience. I have stopped reading any comment made by Tim Dunn as I can imagine what he's saying.
He’s pathological.
It’s 100% pathological. There’s no other explanation. He’s never wrong, nor is Delta. That speaks volumes.
first, you clearly just read what I wrote so the first instance of pathology is in being unable to admit that your statement is not even true
second, the only thing pathological is being unable to admit that someone else is wrong. Correcting false and inaccurate information is not pathological. The solution is for some people to quit making inaccurate statements.
and third, the best example of pathological behavior is on display from...
first, you clearly just read what I wrote so the first instance of pathology is in being unable to admit that your statement is not even true
second, the only thing pathological is being unable to admit that someone else is wrong. Correcting false and inaccurate information is not pathological. The solution is for some people to quit making inaccurate statements.
and third, the best example of pathological behavior is on display from none other than MAX power who argued yesterday that DL has no loyalty in LAX. After multiple sources - including me - noted that DL has a 5 market share premium over AA and UA in LAX, he writes today that DL does indeed have loyalty but still not as much as AA as he lists a whole bunch of airlines that either do not fly domestically - none of AA's JV partners - or with which AA has no JV such as AS but rather have taken over, on a codeshare basis w/ a marketing agreement what AA couldn't make money flying.
MAX simply embodies that which you accuse me of.
Police others and yourself and we will all be better off for it.
I think TD has some useful, thoughtful aviation info. And I'm not a Delta fan-at all.
Put JetAway on the list of Tim’s other accounts. It’s crazy to see “I agree with Tim Dunn” comments. It’s like they use the same Chat GPT engine. Huh.
Does not seem like a market where Delta will be successful considering they really do not have a partner in Australia after Virgin walked away from them. Qantas will always be the preferred choice in the market and the JV they have with AA will be hard to beat. United is getting stronger in the South Pacific with partnerships with Air NZ and Virgin. There has to be a ceiling of potential business because we...
Does not seem like a market where Delta will be successful considering they really do not have a partner in Australia after Virgin walked away from them. Qantas will always be the preferred choice in the market and the JV they have with AA will be hard to beat. United is getting stronger in the South Pacific with partnerships with Air NZ and Virgin. There has to be a ceiling of potential business because we are talking lengthy ULH flights in time and distance and how many people actually enjoy flying those to vacation. I see Delta being seasonal at best.
The Delta flight is seasonal. And Delta does have a partner (REX). It is not as good as Qantas or Virgin, but it still allows connectivity. The Great Barrier Reef is a significant draw for people going to Australia. REX currently does not fly from SYD-CNS, but they do fly from BNE-CNS.
The Queensland aviation development board says that DL will go daily, year round. The amount of days they use to calculate the maximum benefit is just shy of 3 years of daily flights.
funny, Ben, that you said yesterday that Delta was at a disadvantage and was just following AA and UA.
In fact, according to the data from the Queensland aviation development fund, Delta has the potential to get the largest share of the subsidy, like because it is using the largest plane given that the A350-900 as configured by Delta carries the most passengers and also has the highest cargo capacity.
The Fund now...
funny, Ben, that you said yesterday that Delta was at a disadvantage and was just following AA and UA.
In fact, according to the data from the Queensland aviation development fund, Delta has the potential to get the largest share of the subsidy, like because it is using the largest plane given that the A350-900 as configured by Delta carries the most passengers and also has the highest cargo capacity.
The Fund now supports three direct US connections with mainland US carriers to Brisbane including:
United Airlines from San Francisco, operating since October 2022, supporting 227,000 inbound seats and $151 million in visitor expenditure over three years.
American Airlines from Dallas Fort Worth, starting October 2024, supporting 140,000 inbound seats and $113 million in visitor expenditure over three years.
Delta Air Lines from Los Angeles, starting December 2024, supporting 271,000 inbound seats and $208 million in visitor expenditure over three years.
It is also noteworthy that UA was first in with its subsidy for SFO but will only be subsidized for one year after AA and DL enter the market. DL's subsidies will be the last to end which means it could have the greatest potential to be the airline that remains in the market.
DL has plenty of new A350s coming online in addition to the 9 ex-Latam A350s that will begin to get reconfigured later this year and usable for transpacific expansion.
The Queensland government authority also notes that DL is expected to grow to daily service.
Gary estimates that they are paying AA and DL's services up to AUD 750/passenger.
And they note that the DL agreement with Rex supports connections to other parts of Australia.
The loser is Qantas which is apparently seeing US carriers subsidized including to connect passengers throughout Australia.
Australia is a democracy and there are certain to be rules around how these subsidies can work but they apparently are tired of seeing the majority of air traffic esp. from the US going to SYD or for QF to use a smaller and less capable A330-200 than what the big 3 propose. DL, by virtue of using the largest aircraft, actually has access to the largest potential subsidy.
@ Tim Dunn -- Agree with you 100000%! Amazing job, Delta, as always! I can't help but scream it from the rooftops 24/7/365, because Delta is just so amazing! All other airlines should be honored to even be allowed to fly in the same skies as Delta. Keep climbing!!!
This must be one of the top 3 best trolls from Ben in the history of this blog and I am LIVING for it !
Ben,
I read your blog and reply to alot because you generally do a good job and instill good discussion.
Yesterday was a notable exception.
I don't expect you to bow down in front of Delta.
I do expect you to be able to post facts and set the bias aside; in the absence of facts, saying nothing is better than making yourself look like a fool later on.
Even...
Ben,
I read your blog and reply to alot because you generally do a good job and instill good discussion.
Yesterday was a notable exception.
I don't expect you to bow down in front of Delta.
I do expect you to be able to post facts and set the bias aside; in the absence of facts, saying nothing is better than making yourself look like a fool later on.
Even other readers commented that the anti-DL bias is over the top and driven by emotion rather than facts.
A million side discussions went on, most of which are irrelevant in this case because of the subsidies that AA, DL and UA are all receiving.
But none of that changes that DL has an enormous amount of widebody capacity coming in the next 4 years and they are generating the profits to support market expansion - just as they have done for the last 5 years which resulted in them overtaking AA at LAX, B6 at BOS and relegating AA and B6 to even more distant market share positions.
Subsidies are clearly market distorting. When there are people that still can't grasp that the party that gets the biggest subsidy has the biggest advantage, I have to seriously question the intelligence and/or integrity of some of your readers.
I accept your mea culpa and look forward to reading more of your content - hopefully w/ less bias and more facts before you jump to conclusions.
Get a life, Tim.
Tim I read your seeking alpha pieces - you don’t get to tell ANYONE to be less biased with the way you fellate Delta. Delta is a quality US airline; that’s about it. They struggle when the other airlines struggle and grow when the others grow. Since the bottoming out point of May 2020 (pre-congressional subsidies), the stock has underperformed United (albeit barely) and significantly underperformed Heico and TransDigm. Based on that, it seems to...
Tim I read your seeking alpha pieces - you don’t get to tell ANYONE to be less biased with the way you fellate Delta. Delta is a quality US airline; that’s about it. They struggle when the other airlines struggle and grow when the others grow. Since the bottoming out point of May 2020 (pre-congressional subsidies), the stock has underperformed United (albeit barely) and significantly underperformed Heico and TransDigm. Based on that, it seems to me that Scott Kirby has handled the pandemic better than Ed Bastian. How you can give Delta a “Strong Buy” rating when margin expansion isn’t happening with fuel increases and other sectors of the economy are actually experiencing margin growth and earnings growth is beyond me.
first, thank you for reading my work elsewhere.
second, stock recommendations are based on forward expectations, not on what was done in the past.
third, UAL stock is down 11% over the past year while DAL is up 10%. Over the past 3 years, DAL is down 13% while UAL is down 10%. Over the past 5 years, UAL is down 49% while DAL is down 19%.
fourth, Wall Street analysts have...
first, thank you for reading my work elsewhere.
second, stock recommendations are based on forward expectations, not on what was done in the past.
third, UAL stock is down 11% over the past year while DAL is up 10%. Over the past 3 years, DAL is down 13% while UAL is down 10%. Over the past 5 years, UAL is down 49% while DAL is down 19%.
fourth, Wall Street analysts have a collective "strong buy" on DAL and a "buy" on UAL.
fifth, UAL generates lower profits and has much higher capex (fleet spending) than DAL and every other US airline combined which is part of the concern among airline investors.
Whether you like it or not, DAL is currently the most profitable US airline and in the world and has the highest market cap among US airlines (Ryanair and DAL trade places for the top spot just as DAL and Southwest used to do).
sixth, airline stocks often underperform market indices but they outperformed those indices and any number of other stocks at certain periods last year. That always will happen. The point of stock investment is to time based on expectation of market-beating performance.
Yes timing is key - forward looking projections should not have them beating their indices. Also, when you say “Wall Street Analysts”, you mean sell-side analysts who have an incentive to remain buddy-buddy with the companies they cover. Take a look at the 13F statements of the best hedge fund, mutual fund, and public equity investors - you won’t find too much capital in Delta (or any commercial carrier for that matter). All it takes...
Yes timing is key - forward looking projections should not have them beating their indices. Also, when you say “Wall Street Analysts”, you mean sell-side analysts who have an incentive to remain buddy-buddy with the companies they cover. Take a look at the 13F statements of the best hedge fund, mutual fund, and public equity investors - you won’t find too much capital in Delta (or any commercial carrier for that matter). All it takes is one negative consumer sentiment report for Delta and the other US carriers to head south.
nearly all of the big 3's stock is owned by the same funds that manage much of the US' private pension assets.
Feel free to let them and the analysts that cover the airline industry that they got it all wrong.
The stock market is a democracy. You get to vote with your pocketbook but unlike voting in elections, you get as many "votes" for your position as you are willing to into the...
nearly all of the big 3's stock is owned by the same funds that manage much of the US' private pension assets.
Feel free to let them and the analysts that cover the airline industry that they got it all wrong.
The stock market is a democracy. You get to vote with your pocketbook but unlike voting in elections, you get as many "votes" for your position as you are willing to into the market.
And DAL has provided guidance and profits that justifies its stock price.
Once again, UAL earned 60% of DAL and has almost double the amount of capex of DAL. It isn't a surprise that UAL's market cap is about 60% of DAL's.
it is equally notable that, despite out-earning LUV for a couple of years, UAL is still worth less as a company than LUV.
You are free to posit your own opinions but you really don't get to tell those with much more money in the market that they are wrong.
And I do have sell side analysts that read my SA work.
Tim Dunn calling out OMAAT for being a Tim Dunn.
@Lucky
Since you wanted scream it from the rooftops 24/7/365, then jokes on you. This year we've got 366.
Therefore, I nominate Feb 29 as TD day. Where everyone should Troll Delta. And maybe Hilton?
https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/facebook/000/039/761/nerdfacecover.jpg
"The loser is Qantas which is apparently seeing US carriers subsidized including to connect passengers throughout Australia."
Have you seen QF's passenger and cargo load factor compared to DL? At least out of SYD.
Bammmmmmm
*mic drop*
I've never understood the "Keep Climbing" tagline Delta uses. To me, it always sounds like the answer to the question "What were the last words on the CVR?"
Who cares if Delta gets the biggest subsidy? These only work in the long run if the airlines eventually become profitable. TBD on that one. Overall, Brisbane is not a top of mind destination for Americans looking to go to Australia. While it's nice enough, it's far to go for a beach vacation. Most Americans have probably never heard of it. In addition, it's FAR from most people in the US, and most people in...
Who cares if Delta gets the biggest subsidy? These only work in the long run if the airlines eventually become profitable. TBD on that one. Overall, Brisbane is not a top of mind destination for Americans looking to go to Australia. While it's nice enough, it's far to go for a beach vacation. Most Americans have probably never heard of it. In addition, it's FAR from most people in the US, and most people in the US arent going to use their limited vacation time to go to Australia. On the other side, right now the Australian dollar is weak and fewer can come to the US. While these subsidies help for the time being, it's far from certain who will be left at the end. I've worked at airlines where we've taken subsidies to help develop new service, and it has worked, but generally only so in markets where nobody had to make a really hard case for visitation to/from the new destination. I dont think Brisbane fits that category, but time will tell.
That is NOT how it works. You are so misinformed Tim!! They DO NOT factor inventory, they primarily consider FREQUENCY!!! The amount skews to 5 figures per frequency; another popular destination skews in 6 figures.
And it’s MARKETING SUPPORT, and does not cover OPERATING COSTS!!
Geez, stick to what you actually know.
You’re going off the far end on the subject, because you don’t know anything about how it actually works.
Brisbane will be hosting Summer Olympics in 8 yrs time, May be this could be reason they are promoting Queensland aggressively.