United CEO Scott Kirby provides the most interesting insights of any US airline CEO. At the JP Morgan Conference this week, he chimed in on a wide range of topics, ranging from a possible merger with JetBlue, to a unique claim about hub profitability.
Here’s another fun tidbit — Kirby was asked about the possibility of American becoming a more premium airline, and his response was quite something. American has been struggling financially (compared to Delta and United), and we know American executives believe the airline needs to become more premium to compete. Is that realistic, though?
In this post:
Kirby thinks there can only be two premium US airlines
JP Morgan airline analyst Jamie Baker asked United CEO Scott Kirby a question about comments he has made in the past. Specifically, in the past, Kirby has claimed that the US only has room for two premium airlines. Baker asked Kirby if he really believes that, and if he truly doesn’t think the market can support another premium airline.
Kirby’s answer is quite something:
Well, the first time I actually remember saying that was 12/09/2013, which was the day the American Airlines US Airways merger closed. And at the end of a successful day, I got everyone in the room and said there’s only room in the country for two successful premium airlines. We’re going to be it.
Here’s what we’re going to do. We’re going to seat back entertainment. We’re going to sort of the same playbook. We’re going to do all this stuff. We’re going to push United out of the transcon market, then we’re going to push them out of Los Angeles, then we’re going to push them out of Chicago.
I said that on 12/09/2013. So I’ve thought that for a long time. The airlines decided to flip the playbooks, but I still think there’s only room for two. It’s just the size of the market. You just look at the big metro areas like New York is big enough to have two.
It’s really hard to be three in there. It’s hard to have a competitive advantage. Here in New York, Delta is bigger on one side of the river, we’re bigger on the other. We can each kind of be number one, but it’s hard to be the real point is it’s hard to be number two. And you just run out of big cities where you can be number two.
You can be really big in a place that’s not New York or Chicago or Los Angeles, but it’s hard to be kind of global and comprehensive if you can’t be number one in those big cities. And there was always I thought there was always only room for two as you just look at the map. And I still think there’s only room for two.
Isom thinks there’s room for three premium airlines
American CEO Robert Isom was also attending the conference, and heard Kirby’s response. So Baker asked Isom why Kirby was wrong in clearly insinuating that American can’t be a premium airline:
So, I’ll just start with this. I worked for Scott and with Scott for a long time. So, you know, I’ve seen him be right on a lot of stuff. He’s a brilliant man. I’ve seen him wrong in a lot of stuff.
And in this case, he’s dead wrong. And, you know, the reason for that is Americans been around for a long time. American probably had, you know, a weaker hand going into into the pandemic. Certainly, we were hamstrung on the way out. We didn’t again, I mentioned that we had 200 aircraft over 200 aircraft that, we couldn’t fly because of regional pilot shortfall.
You know, I love our regional network. It flies incredibly well. We’ve got a great fleet. But by the same token, you have to have pilots to fly. You know what?
We’re back at. You know? Scott says that kind of stuff. I’m sure because he would like nothing better than to not have American as a competitor. He would guarantee he doesn’t like us being a competitor in his backyard in some places.
But to that end, we’re a premium product carrier. We’ve got a great fleet. We’re not dependent on a lot of the issues that Boeing or Airbus has to deal with. Our growth is fairly metered as we look at. We’ve grown in DFW in Charlotte.
We have an incredible position with, you know, Sunbelt position, hub position, enviable relationships. I see Luis Gallego here from IAG. Anyone would love, you know, to have a partner with, you know, Iberia and and and BA in their network of carriers. The same thing holds true across, you know, the Pacific with with with JAL, and and our other partners. American is not going anywhere.
American is recovering. And I can guarantee you that anything that you hear to the contrary is just concerned that we’re actually making a lot of progress.
My take on the comments of Kirby & Isom
I’ve gotta say, this sure is an interesting discussion, especially given the dynamics, and that Kirby used to number two at American, and was Isom’s boss. A few thoughts come to mind…
To recap, Kirby’s argument ultimately comes down to claiming that you can’t be a premium airline if you don’t have a dominant position in multiple large markets, like New York, Chicago, or Los Angeles. In other words, American can’t be premium because he doesn’t view the markets where American has dominant market positions as being premium enough, and there’s not much room to grow.
Isom’s rebuttal is… not much of a rebuttal at all? I mean, he just kind of goes off on a tangent about how the airline has “a great fleet” (whatever that means), how the airline is growing in Dallas and Charlotte (which kind of reinforces Kirby’s point), how it has a strong sunbelt position (is that premium?), and how American couldn’t fly regional jets at the start of the pandemic (okay?).
I love how Isom finishes by claiming that anyone who doesn’t see much upside for American is simply scared of the airline. I like Isom’s optimism, but to be honest, I think Kirby spends most of his energy thinking about how to beat Delta, and not about whether American is catching up.
What’s my take on this? Well, I guess the question is how we’re defining a “premium” airline. Ultimately as far as airline executives go, what matters is profitability, and the belief is that the only way to increase profitability is through going upmarket.
I don’t want to say that it’s impossible for American to catch up with Delta and United in terms of economics, but odds are definitely stacked against the airline:
- American can’t figure out a winning strategy in New York, and has already tried to become the number one carrier in Los Angeles, and ultimately gave up, so the airline doesn’t have particularly competitive coastal hubs
- American has been so focused on being a domestic airline, and doesn’t have nearly as compelling of a long haul route network as United, despite its compelling joint ventures
- That all says nothing of American’s lack of a customer service culture, its disadvantage with business travelers, and its uncompetitive aircraft interiors
Bottom line
United CEO Scott Kirby thinks there’s only room for two premium airlines in the United States. He claims that he realized this over a decade ago at American, following the merger with US Airways, and tried to implement that strategy there. But when it failed and he left for United, the goal was to make United one of the two premium airlines.
He doesn’t think there’s room for three premium airlines due to the need to have a number one position in major cities like New York, and there’s an area where he doesn’t think American can grow. American CEO Robert Isom disagrees with Kirby, but I can’t say he makes a very compelling case.
What do you make of Kirby’s comments about American becoming premium?
There is absolutely NO premium airline in the US!!!
Nailed it regarding American Airlines lack of customer service culture and uninviting aircraft interior. Both are just dreadful!
I agree 100% on that!
“ I think Kirby spends most of his energy thinking about how to beat Delta, and not about whether American is catching up.”
AA has just NO strategy and the good markets (JFK, LAX) they once had, have been gone since the 90’s and the fleet and network …. oh my, PREMIUM, really starts with the comfort of a passenger, and AA but also UA is far behind of...
I agree 100% on that!
“ I think Kirby spends most of his energy thinking about how to beat Delta, and not about whether American is catching up.”
AA has just NO strategy and the good markets (JFK, LAX) they once had, have been gone since the 90’s and the fleet and network …. oh my, PREMIUM, really starts with the comfort of a passenger, and AA but also UA is far behind of DL, they did do their homework and invested in a more modern and comfortable (safe) fleet compared to the rest of the BIG global Carriers!
AA, a far way to go, to compete!
Don't get me wrong but there are no premium airlines in North America. As other are commenting here the flawless of UA and DL are equally the same as AA, the difference is the arrogance attitude of DL doesn't make it premium. The crab of sparkling wine in lounges and on-board of all three is horrible, Prosecco is good but definitely not Premium. DL limit the access to lounges for elite status, at least AA...
Don't get me wrong but there are no premium airlines in North America. As other are commenting here the flawless of UA and DL are equally the same as AA, the difference is the arrogance attitude of DL doesn't make it premium. The crab of sparkling wine in lounges and on-board of all three is horrible, Prosecco is good but definitely not Premium. DL limit the access to lounges for elite status, at least AA and UA have two type of lounges for different elite levels and Cabin travels, UA. First meals in AA are excellent, way better than UA or DL. If we put all flawless together, all three are failing to be a Premium, and Don't even get me into AC in Canada that is very bad and subsidized by the Canadian government.
I think this is all very self referential. From the point of view of travelers, there is not much to distinguish the big 3 in terms of price or performance. On a global scale Delta is maybe a 3/5, United a 2.8, and American a.2.6, but only a hyoerattuned US road warrior could tell the difference. They are all very mediocre even compared to some airlines in third world countries let alone the truly premium...
I think this is all very self referential. From the point of view of travelers, there is not much to distinguish the big 3 in terms of price or performance. On a global scale Delta is maybe a 3/5, United a 2.8, and American a.2.6, but only a hyoerattuned US road warrior could tell the difference. They are all very mediocre even compared to some airlines in third world countries let alone the truly premium middle eastern airlines in service, fleet, international network size, quality of staff and ground operations, airport facilities, etc. The fact that United is charging us international level fares to fly from Chicago to Columbus may make their shareholders happy but certainly doesn't make it a premium airline for its passengers....just a more expensive version of the same third rate airline we have to take because there are few of any alternatives.
American will never be a premium airline as long as Isom is around. He's a manager, not a leader, and not a very good one. American has had an identity crisis with Isom in charge and even if he keeps up his vision of a premium airline, I doubt he has the skills to execute it or the employee buy in. Customers? Forget about it. He's burned too many bridges preaching about caring for people...
American will never be a premium airline as long as Isom is around. He's a manager, not a leader, and not a very good one. American has had an identity crisis with Isom in charge and even if he keeps up his vision of a premium airline, I doubt he has the skills to execute it or the employee buy in. Customers? Forget about it. He's burned too many bridges preaching about caring for people along life's journey while actually treating them like an inconvenience getting in the way of his precious metrics. I'd love to see him succeed, but I don't think he has it in him.
Mikey, you hit the nail on the head: Robert is only a manager and is NOT a leader. Leaders are Bob Crandall, Gordon Bethune, Oscar Munoz, Bob Six, Juan Trippe, Tom Davis, Herb Kelleher. They look at the culture, not just the numbers. Proactive not reactive. They have a vision and lead their people with plain, clear speech and not corporate babble. And I was wrong about Scott Kirby: he is a leader. AA had...
Mikey, you hit the nail on the head: Robert is only a manager and is NOT a leader. Leaders are Bob Crandall, Gordon Bethune, Oscar Munoz, Bob Six, Juan Trippe, Tom Davis, Herb Kelleher. They look at the culture, not just the numbers. Proactive not reactive. They have a vision and lead their people with plain, clear speech and not corporate babble. And I was wrong about Scott Kirby: he is a leader. AA had a proud history and heritage. Now it’s more like a larger America West, resembling Spirit and JetBlue. Weak leadership, mean dysfunctional culture. Sad.
No American carrier is close to being a premium airline. And they don't aspire to be, either. America believes all services, of every type, should be a profit-seeking enterprise with:
1. As little consumer benefit and competitive forces as possible.
2. As much value-extraction (price customers pay) and government subsidies as possible.
How are you going to make a real premium experience given those forces? It's a race to the bottom while keeping prices high.
You seriously don’t think those same forces don’t exist in most major global companies throughout Europe Asia and Latin America?
in some ways, I agree. On the other hand, have you read Ben's review of Delta One JFK lounge?
Tim: those forces exist, sure. But if you look across the spectrum of services that America provides (whether it’s Hilton “free breakfast” with a crazy asterisk to tipping because business owners squeeze employees down below the minimum federal wage to $2.13 / hr), America is a special place in a very bad way.
Points Adventure: Yes, I’ve seen a few reviews about that lounge. New York first lounges (OneWorld as well) are very, very nice....
Tim: those forces exist, sure. But if you look across the spectrum of services that America provides (whether it’s Hilton “free breakfast” with a crazy asterisk to tipping because business owners squeeze employees down below the minimum federal wage to $2.13 / hr), America is a special place in a very bad way.
Points Adventure: Yes, I’ve seen a few reviews about that lounge. New York first lounges (OneWorld as well) are very, very nice. However, they are directly serving international customers. (Same with Grand Hyatt SFO, that hotel is specifically for stayovers for international premium passengers.) In cases like that, America figures out what it takes to actually be premium. But not in the cabin, not in regular destinations and not consistently, unfortunately.
Islam’s comments, alone, categorically prove delusion and incompetence in AA’s leadership. It’s inarguable and simple.
How prophetic of it.
before this article falls off the first page, let's take another look at the numbers.
In 2024, DAL had a 5.61% net income margin, UAL had a 5.52% NI margin, ALK was at 3.37%, LUV was at 1.69% and AAL was at 1.56%
If premium means profitability at the highest levels of the industry, then DAL is the leader and UAL is #2.
In light of Kirby's claims about UAL's hub profitability, with AA and...
before this article falls off the first page, let's take another look at the numbers.
In 2024, DAL had a 5.61% net income margin, UAL had a 5.52% NI margin, ALK was at 3.37%, LUV was at 1.69% and AAL was at 1.56%
If premium means profitability at the highest levels of the industry, then DAL is the leader and UAL is #2.
In light of Kirby's claims about UAL's hub profitability, with AA and WN profitability less than 2%, a significant amount of their capacity is likely not profitable.
All of the discussion about DAL's hub profitability is likely misplaced. The issue is with AA and WN.
and given that UA's net income margin was less than 6%, their claim that all of their hubs are profitable and within a 6% margin range means that some of their hubs are barely profitable even if they use operating profit by hub to make that claim.
and, again, let's remember that UAL paid $600 million less in profit sharing than DL in 2024 and at least $400 million in wage rates and benefits other than profit sharing to its FAs and ground workers.
So, UA's profit margin is likely to be closer to ALK's than DAL's but still 2X what AAL is doing if they had paid industry leading wages.
and the DOT just released its Air Travel Consumer Report that includes all data for 2025.
HA was #1 in on-time for the year followed by DL then UA; AA was in the bottom half
If you combine HA and AS (which was at #5 for on-time), DL is the #1 carrier and UA is #2.
In cancellations, WN had the lowest cancellation RATE followed by HA, DL and AA and then AS in the top half. UA's cancellation rate was #8 - better only than F9 and NK.
In mishandled baggage, UA was #9 and AA was #10. DL was #7 followed by AS at #8. all of the legacy hub and spoke airlines were in the bottom half in baggage handling.
in involuntary denied boardings, DL was 1st, UA was 3rd, and AA was 9th,
But again, the real takeaway from all of Kirby and co's. claims is that UA and its fans are famous for desperately trying to paint a reality that paints them at the top of the industry when it is clear that they are no. 2 in profitability and lower in a number of customer service and operational categories.
AA and WN clearly have to get their profitability up in order to survive for the long term but WN is running a fairly decent operation while AA is not.
profit doesn't equal premium, no.
If it did, Ryanair would be quite premium, far more than Delta.
But seriously? Get it together. another 15 paragraphs on your weird obsessions and insecurities about Scott Kirby.
That is precisely the point, Julie. In profits, United is second to Delta and yet he says #2 is doomed to fail.
So what is premium in the US market?
If it depends on fewest cancellations or low bag mishandling, United is near the bottom of the list
There is no fixation w Kirby. Just pointing out his cherry picking and hypocrisy.
If he didn’t make such claims no one would have to...
That is precisely the point, Julie. In profits, United is second to Delta and yet he says #2 is doomed to fail.
So what is premium in the US market?
If it depends on fewest cancellations or low bag mishandling, United is near the bottom of the list
There is no fixation w Kirby. Just pointing out his cherry picking and hypocrisy.
If he didn’t make such claims no one would have to come behind correcting him
On some metrics American does better than United. Delta does better than both American and United.
Profit is not one of them.
And yes Ryanair does better than any US airline. The big 3 Euro carriers say they make no money on intra Europe flying. That model won’t work in the US
Mr. Isom has never exuded confidence. He’s a very poor publuc speaker. Constantly stumbling which makes one question the point he is attempting to make.
He never has treated employees with respect. In a customer service business that’s a must in order to be successful. Herb Kelleher and Gordon Bethune realized this and as a result became great Companies. Isom pits employee groups against each other. This fascination with 10 minutes early is all...
Mr. Isom has never exuded confidence. He’s a very poor publuc speaker. Constantly stumbling which makes one question the point he is attempting to make.
He never has treated employees with respect. In a customer service business that’s a must in order to be successful. Herb Kelleher and Gordon Bethune realized this and as a result became great Companies. Isom pits employee groups against each other. This fascination with 10 minutes early is all about metrics that earn management bonuses. It has done nothing to enhance customer experience. Bottom line, American is in need if changes at the top. Why the BOD has st on their hands is beyond me. I would love to see the company thrive and become the carrier of choice for premium customers.
All of his, " you know"s and "at the end of the day"s get really old pretty fast. He is indeed a very poor public speaker and a clueless leader.
Seat back entertainment, buy on board food that doesn't require 1300 miles for it to be available, and better collaboration for amenity kits or at least the name stamped in them. Sure, 13 Lune is the supplier of their premium class kits but it's nowhere on the kits so it's not really a collaboration then.
Project Oasis was the nail in the coffin.
AA needs Akbar Al Baker to come rescue it
Focusing on CLT & DFW??? What a joke that is from Mr. Isom... CLT is barely qualifies as hub of any sort when you have PHL & JFK to the North and MIA to the South. CLT is an Airways holdover that AA will NEVER turn into any type of hub with relevance. PHL/JFK/MIA will ALWAYS overshadow CLT. Same goes for DFW, where are they flying to from there?? Competing with MIA on Latin America?? They are decaying from the inside through no fault except their own.
No offense, but you don't have a clue what you're talking about.
CLT is the 4th largest airline-specific hub in the country, and (as of 2023) has the lowest cost-per-enplanement of any airport in the FAA large-hub (1%+ of total national traffic) category.
As lame as it may be for a passenger, CLT is a goldmine of a hub operation.
and a local market that is below about 20 other metros and a facility that is capable of handling about 1/2 of the traffic that AA pushes through it.
It is a low cost hub to operate but one of (if not THE) lowest quality hub experiences in the US.
DFW is a sprawling inefficient mess from a staffing standpoint but CLT just is out of its league as a large hub.
Please explain how convenient seasonal nonstop service is to Europe out of CLT??The only year round is through LHR so AA can glom off of BA’s route network and keep CLT a domestic bus terminal moving snowbirds south in the winter or folks who live in CLT to the Bahamas or Puerto Rico. AA going after that premium traffic of Sprit or Frontier
If I have to connect to get anywhere in Europe or...
Please explain how convenient seasonal nonstop service is to Europe out of CLT??The only year round is through LHR so AA can glom off of BA’s route network and keep CLT a domestic bus terminal moving snowbirds south in the winter or folks who live in CLT to the Bahamas or Puerto Rico. AA going after that premium traffic of Sprit or Frontier
If I have to connect to get anywhere in Europe or Asia I’d rather fly UA (which I do out of CLT) or DL who both have a greater international route map than AA’s seasonal sh#t show out of CLT.
CLT will never have relevance as long as AA is anchor airline…unless Greyhound sets up shop…
This fight is silly. The variance between brands in the US is small compared to the variance within brands based on configuration and dated nature of the product.
One of the worst flight experiences in the US: Delta CRJs. One of the best: Delta A220s. They fly many of the same routes.
I actually find AA more consistent in its product on domestic routes, though it is a middling to low-end product. But those older...
This fight is silly. The variance between brands in the US is small compared to the variance within brands based on configuration and dated nature of the product.
One of the worst flight experiences in the US: Delta CRJs. One of the best: Delta A220s. They fly many of the same routes.
I actually find AA more consistent in its product on domestic routes, though it is a middling to low-end product. But those older United 737s are just a torture chamber for anything longer than 75 minutes.
I think there's room for 3 'premium' airlines in NYC area but AA simply gave up in recent years and chose to focus on Philadelphia instead.
United, Premium?
ROTFLHMSBAHPIMP
I really like United and their future plans but you're right. It's one thing to talk about a future premium state, but when United is still flying around the Smizek A319s and A320s where the front half of the plane has power but the back half weren't deemed worthy... I'm fairly certain many of those birds haven't changed much in the back since I flew on them as TED birds.
When you get on a...
I really like United and their future plans but you're right. It's one thing to talk about a future premium state, but when United is still flying around the Smizek A319s and A320s where the front half of the plane has power but the back half weren't deemed worthy... I'm fairly certain many of those birds haven't changed much in the back since I flew on them as TED birds.
When you get on a United jet (nearly all) and are on 2012 wifi (talking about starlink is great,. Having high speed wifi is another thing)...
When every new A321NEO has more seats than the AA or Delta A321NEO yet celebrated as some kind of "premium" breakthrough? Mood lighting is cool but are people really this fooled by cute lights?
When Polaris was designed purposefully to be the most dense business class seat in the industry... PURPOSEFULLY designed to be the most dense so United didn't give up real estate in the business cabin removing IPTE.
United Next is a great idea but it's a VERY long way off from completion while many jets are straight out of a 2008 Continental commercial
I like Kirby and really respect him but he is over the top, at times... "premium"? Kirby runs a great business and I really respect where he's taken United. But c'mon. Complete plans and future states, then brag.
This is all a bit amusing. But, as ever, perception seems to be reality. Marketing seems to dictate reality more often than not among the US3. It seems all United had to do was talk about a future premium state to be deemed "premium" or "more premium"
also. cute play on an a past US/AA HR exec name ;)
Tbh, the economy experience for domestic/short-haul/transcon US flights tends to be better than short-haul (intra-Europe) flights in my experience. It's the long-haul/trans-oceanic flights where the US carriers all fall short of their international counterparts. That doesn't mean that they can't or shouldn't improve their international service though, because as mentioned carriers like Air France, ANA, JAL, etc. all provide good passenger experiences on both their short and long-haul flights.
Regarding AA vs United, it's admittedly...
Tbh, the economy experience for domestic/short-haul/transcon US flights tends to be better than short-haul (intra-Europe) flights in my experience. It's the long-haul/trans-oceanic flights where the US carriers all fall short of their international counterparts. That doesn't mean that they can't or shouldn't improve their international service though, because as mentioned carriers like Air France, ANA, JAL, etc. all provide good passenger experiences on both their short and long-haul flights.
Regarding AA vs United, it's admittedly a very low sample size but United has never messed up on me out of Atlanta while AA is 2 for 2 screwing the pooch the night before an early AM flight. Once when I was flying to Atlanta to Chicago to connect to a JAL F flight to Tokyo, and once when I was flying the family from Atlanta to Vancouver (forget where the connection there was). Both times AA cancelled the flight out of Atlanta at 11:30PM-12AM, leaving me scrambling to pick up the pieces for a 6-7AM departure the next morning. Meanwhile the United flight taking a friend and I to Chicago left ontime, got us there on time, and we enjoyed the Polaris lounge before boarding our BR flight to Taipei.
Question for CEO Kirby:
-How do you claim to be a premium airline when you fly 30-40 years old airplanes, and your overall fleet age is close to 30 (one of the oldest ones in the world)? That's like operating a limo service using 1985 Suburbans.
I stopped flying United across the pond because the 767s are almost always broken and delayed/cencelled.
You can ask Tim Dunn that question.
He already answered that a dozen times.
On the contrary, age is just a number if you can maintain the jets. The 767s are more spacious and comfortable, particularly in economy, than their densified 777/787 cabins. If AA's experience in prematurely retiring the 767s and 757s is anything to go by, I can't see UA retiring these trusty birds anytime soon.
Jay is right to an extent.
Age doesn't matter but there is a cost to continue to fly older jets.
AA, DL and UA have similar percentages of new generation mainline aircraft on their domestic systems but UA just said it will save $100 million in engine maintenance by early retiring 20 aircraft. Presumably those were aircraft it planned to keep much longer - they already planned to retire about 20 aircraft this...
Jay is right to an extent.
Age doesn't matter but there is a cost to continue to fly older jets.
AA, DL and UA have similar percentages of new generation mainline aircraft on their domestic systems but UA just said it will save $100 million in engine maintenance by early retiring 20 aircraft. Presumably those were aircraft it planned to keep much longer - they already planned to retire about 20 aircraft this year - because you don't spend that kind of money to keep aircraft in service for a few months.
On the widebody side, UA is at a distinct disadvantage by flying a much higher percentage of its widebody fleet w/ older generation aircraft; DL has the highest percentage of its widebody fleet that are new generation powered and that is partly because UA uses domestic 777As.
UA's cost to fly the Pacific on 777s is much higher than for DL to fly on 330-900s and 350s and DL is moving to fly just about all of its Pacific routes on 359s.
And DL has the 350-1000 coming which is far more efficient than anything AA or UA has in its fleet.
DL continues to retire 767s while UA is not. They offer a more comfortable coach experience although the 330 is still better. The 767 is just not as fuel and labor efficient as larger new generation aircraft including the 339s/350s and 787s.
So, yes, fleet age matters if you are using less efficient aircraft than your peers. And UA's widebody fleet competes w/ foreign carriers that generally have newer and more modern aircraft and also labor costs.
"How do you claim to be a premium airline when you fly 30-40 years old airplanes, and your overall fleet age is close to 30 (one of the oldest ones in the world)? That's like operating a limo service using 1985 Suburbans."
The answer to that is easy: Because 99.9% of people who aren't aviation geeks, would have no idea how old any aircraft type is, and would only care about the shape/modernity of its interior and seats.
and many of AA's domestic aircraft have nothing to make them feel new or modern - which people do notice, regardless of the age.
about half of UA's domestic fleet has been updated or is new compared to 80% or more of DL's domestic network.
btw, DL's first 717 (the prototype) to get Hughes' high speed WiFi is in for conversion while the first RJ (an Endeavor CRJ-700) is already in service.
Modern also includes...
and many of AA's domestic aircraft have nothing to make them feel new or modern - which people do notice, regardless of the age.
about half of UA's domestic fleet has been updated or is new compared to 80% or more of DL's domestic network.
btw, DL's first 717 (the prototype) to get Hughes' high speed WiFi is in for conversion while the first RJ (an Endeavor CRJ-700) is already in service.
Modern also includes modern amenities. B6 and DL figured that out years ago, UA realized it a couple years ago while AA's cabins look like the basic transport wagons that exist in most of the world.
As long as we have Isom leading, American will be a second class airline. He needs to go out and listen to his passengers. They are not happy
“Premium” in Trumpland is Ultra Low Cost Airline anywhere else in the world.
Are you aware that hating one person isn't a substitute for a personality?
Premium Trumpland is equal to hating a person.
I have news for you ? No American run airline is capable, has the savvy and the type of of personnel to compete with the top dogs.
Premium is a good seat that works and is clean. Food that is good. Decent on-time performance and if things go wrong that it's easy to reach an agent to find a n alternative flight that works.
While Ive generally found American Airlines to be decent on international business flights, but (especially domestic) when things go wrong, they are a nightmare. Since I don't have status with AA I don't find it acceptable to have...
Premium is a good seat that works and is clean. Food that is good. Decent on-time performance and if things go wrong that it's easy to reach an agent to find a n alternative flight that works.
While Ive generally found American Airlines to be decent on international business flights, but (especially domestic) when things go wrong, they are a nightmare. Since I don't have status with AA I don't find it acceptable to have to wait close to two hours to talk to an agent and and then be told that they could only find me a flight two days later between TPA-MIA a route they fly multiple times per day.
As for Kirby to make the claim that if you aren't a leader in NY, Chicago or LA you can't be a premium airline that is completely missing the point. It's not about where you fly to but about the experience interacting with the airline. He's essentially making the same stupid argument as Marriott does about that because of their size they naturally own the market (in this case two airlines). Guess what, there are plenty of other airlines and hotel chains. I don't need to fly a US carrier at all to get to most destinations in the US and while I might connect in Chicago, NY or LA that's almost never my destination. So I'll happily fly a foreign carrier with better routing to my destination. I used to fly almost 100% UA/LH Group and now I fly almost 100% other airlines.
A genuine premium airline in North America?
You might as well start searching for a unicorn.
Of course some of the three majors might consider themselves ‘premium’, but that is relative when compared to the classic premium airlines in the Far East, Middle East, or even Europe.
Be that as it may, if anyone follows the comments about the three major carriers in the US on this site, it becomes soon clear that American...
A genuine premium airline in North America?
You might as well start searching for a unicorn.
Of course some of the three majors might consider themselves ‘premium’, but that is relative when compared to the classic premium airlines in the Far East, Middle East, or even Europe.
Be that as it may, if anyone follows the comments about the three major carriers in the US on this site, it becomes soon clear that American is further away from the elusive goal than the other two.
To be brutally honest, American’s domestic first class compares poorly with some international business class services.
B.
"Opinions are like ass holes. Everyone has one, and all of them stink." - Clint Eastwood
"We're all entitled to our own opinions, but none of us are allowed to make up our own facts" - Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit." - W.C. Fields
AA, Delta, and United fighting over who is 'premium' is like three bald men fighting over a comb.
JAL thinks United Airlines cannot be a Premium airlines. Even if they operate 738 to Mongolia.
This one's getting almost as many comments at the nudity in Japan one haha
Tim’s Quote: Stop comparing domestic travel in the US to foreign carrier INTERNATIONAL travel.
Samo’s rebuttal quote: What a stupid argument. How is SQ "international" flight between SIN and KUL different from DL "domestic" flight between JFK and BOS? What does crossing a line on the map have to do with the quality of service?
Well said Samo. Also, even if just comparing purely international long haul, who would choose the US3 airlines over the...
Tim’s Quote: Stop comparing domestic travel in the US to foreign carrier INTERNATIONAL travel.
Samo’s rebuttal quote: What a stupid argument. How is SQ "international" flight between SIN and KUL different from DL "domestic" flight between JFK and BOS? What does crossing a line on the map have to do with the quality of service?
Well said Samo. Also, even if just comparing purely international long haul, who would choose the US3 airlines over the foreign carriers. Hmmmm….Seattle to Taipei-Should I choose DL or CI? U.S. to Hong Kong, Tokyo, or Taipei—-Go with the foreign airlines or the US3?
feel free to tell us the fares between not just those two fares adjusted for the cost of living but for every market that is within the distance of a US transcon, even if we consider just flights within the continental US.
domestic flights around the world are cheaper than international flights.
Period.
Comparing international flight service levels to domestic flights makes no sense.
Even in countries like Japan France and Germany that have...
feel free to tell us the fares between not just those two fares adjusted for the cost of living but for every market that is within the distance of a US transcon, even if we consider just flights within the continental US.
domestic flights around the world are cheaper than international flights.
Period.
Comparing international flight service levels to domestic flights makes no sense.
Even in countries like Japan France and Germany that have domestic air travel markets, it is as bare bone and tighter than in the US.
Fine, Tim. Let’s accept your argument that domestic is as bare bone in these countries as it is in the US. I’ll do you one better - US domestic first class seats are leagues better than Euro business class.
That doesn’t explain why long haul business class from US airlines lags so far behind these other airlines.
No, domestic flights "around the world" are not cheaper. There's zero reason or logic why they should be. The cost is the same, competition is usually lower and domestic flights are actually taxed higher most of the time (e.g. in most of the EU you pay VAT on domestic flights, but international flights - even within the EU - are always exempted). You're making up complete nonsense.
There's zero reason for two flights of same...
No, domestic flights "around the world" are not cheaper. There's zero reason or logic why they should be. The cost is the same, competition is usually lower and domestic flights are actually taxed higher most of the time (e.g. in most of the EU you pay VAT on domestic flights, but international flights - even within the EU - are always exempted). You're making up complete nonsense.
There's zero reason for two flights of same distance to have different service levels just because they cross a line on a map. That's very much a US concept that doesn't exist anywhere else.
I think the most interesting thing about this is that it suggests there was real disagreement re: AA's strategy and direction during the Parker/Kirby years.
that isn't a surprise.
the real surprise is that Kirby and the dozen or so people that he managed to take with him were incapable of impressing their superiors that they could have done a better job but were not permitted to do so.
Parker was stupid but not stupid enough to turn away revenue if he had the chance. Kirby and his CEO wannabees at AA clearly could not convince the team at AA...
that isn't a surprise.
the real surprise is that Kirby and the dozen or so people that he managed to take with him were incapable of impressing their superiors that they could have done a better job but were not permitted to do so.
Parker was stupid but not stupid enough to turn away revenue if he had the chance. Kirby and his CEO wannabees at AA clearly could not convince the team at AA that their ideas were that good.... you have to ask if they were really as enlightened as they say they were at the time they were.
again, Scott Kirby heavily pushed the DL-US DCA/LGA slot swap was finalized in 2011.
how did the light finally go on in Scotty's head that size in NYC mattered just two years after he made one of the biggest strategic blunders in US airline history?
Delta and United are premium???!! The American consumer has so much to learn. Where do we even start?
M.A.G.A. reaches airline CEO, who thinks they're.premium just because they lie about it.
Flew business class SFO-SIN on UA one way, SQ the other way. The difference was immense. If they were restaurants, UA would be Denny's and SQ a Michelin starred one, and there's nothing premium about Denny's
SQ is way overrated.
Polaris, LOL, is actually a bit underrated.
If UA is Denny's.
SQ would be Denny's food served by Disney cast members.
The IAG argument is super weird too, since Star Alliance network in Europe is miles ahead of oneworld. That's why Lufthansa Group still exists - they can get pax anywhere anytime, it's their only selling point. IAG network is much less extensive.
That's funny. Most of the world (including me) thinks there are ZERO premium airlines in the US.
Exactly this !
So much is the attitude of the crew onboard and in my 40+ years flying with them, at best it’s uneven. At worst, though, it’s hostile.
I really think AA needs to change the attitude of their crews. Customer service seems to be the last thing AA crews consider.
AA is by far not a "Premium" airline and has a long way to go to get there. Isom in clueless.
Kirby is not much better - he was the one who advocated at AA to rip out seat back TVs. Now he wants them installed again at UA. UA is far from Premium as well - my last trip on UA was IAH/HNL and I have never set foot on UA again -...
AA is by far not a "Premium" airline and has a long way to go to get there. Isom in clueless.
Kirby is not much better - he was the one who advocated at AA to rip out seat back TVs. Now he wants them installed again at UA. UA is far from Premium as well - my last trip on UA was IAH/HNL and I have never set foot on UA again - Horrible and inedible food, Polaris seat was miserable for someone 6'5" (almost 2M). Crew was the icing on the cake - equally as miserable as the food.
I have not flown DL recently - usually uncompetitive in pricing for the same miserable Economy seat, so no thanks.
Perhaps UA does have a compelling international route network - however I have no plans to go to Greenland or Mongolia, so no dice.
Kirby seems to have forgotten that "He that lives in a glass house does not throw stones."
You don’t fly DL, AA, or UA? Who does that leave to take you around the country and the world?
The food was “inedible”. To paraphrase “Princess Bride”, I do not think that word means what you think it means. I never understand why people use that term to describe food they don’t like. Just say you don’t like or it didn’t taste good. A chair is inedible. Food you don’t like is still edible....
You don’t fly DL, AA, or UA? Who does that leave to take you around the country and the world?
The food was “inedible”. To paraphrase “Princess Bride”, I do not think that word means what you think it means. I never understand why people use that term to describe food they don’t like. Just say you don’t like or it didn’t taste good. A chair is inedible. Food you don’t like is still edible.
I’m sure life can be challenging being so tall, but saying you don’t like a seat since it’s not long enough for someone who is 6’5”? Most seats are not designed for someone so tall. The other option is to reduce seating capacity on the planes for people who are 7’ tall.
Each of the US3 has thousands of flights per day. Sounds like you’re limiting yourself from flying huge airlines due to a very small sample size.
Nope. American food is literally inedible. I once found a big piece of plastic in my meal.
AA plane on fire at DEN. (Trump mass laid off FAA staff.) https://www.nbcnews.com/now/video/american-airlines-plane-catches-fire-at-denver-international-airport-234388549510
Will you be specific and let us know how trimming bloat at the FAA led to an engine fire? Will you be specific in letting us know what employee in the "No Engine Fire" department was let go that directly led to this incident?
first, for all those that talk about how much better foreign airlines are than US airlines, most of the high quality foreign airlines have no domestic market. Singapore doesn't. Hong Kong doesn't. None of the Middle East countries other than Saudi Arabia have a domestic market.
Stop comparing domestic travel in the US to foreign carrier INTERNATIONAL travel.
US airlines benefit from the size of the US economy and the fact that US-based...
first, for all those that talk about how much better foreign airlines are than US airlines, most of the high quality foreign airlines have no domestic market. Singapore doesn't. Hong Kong doesn't. None of the Middle East countries other than Saudi Arabia have a domestic market.
Stop comparing domestic travel in the US to foreign carrier INTERNATIONAL travel.
US airlines benefit from the size of the US economy and the fact that US-based businesses use US carriers for their premium cabin travel.
As to Kirby's comments here, everyone wants to think that the plank has been pulled up behind them - but as many note there are variations between the big 3 in the US - but none is markedly "in" while the other is completely "out"
UA is not equal to DL. In most metrics, DL is well above BOTH AA and UA but the notion that UA is at par w/ DL is simply a dream that Kirby has been hoping would come true for 7 years.
Kirby continues to channel his anti-AA hatred for being passed over for the CEO spot and he will undoubtedly live w/ that burden for his life.
If Kirby was really that smart and that good that he could see what was wrong w/ AA, he clearly got along poorly w/ people or failed miserably at convincing his superiors of his ideas of what AA could be.
The notion that Kirby and all the raft of people he brought w/ him to UA were all being hamstrung from doing anything to turn AA around is more than a stretch, esp. since he is known to have done some of the things that hurt AA including the US-DL slot swap at DCA and LGA.
he is right that it is pretty hard for a #2 in a market to get near the revenue even on a unit revenue basis as the #1 in a market. He just pretends to ignore the reality that UA is #1 in precisely ZERO domestic regions. UA's network has been built around large cities but they are only getting around to developing their presence in medium and small non-hub cities, something AA, DL and WN did across their networks decades ago.
So, spare us the only the #1 can survive unless you want to admit that UA's future in the domestic market is very dim - not unlike its 6th place position in Florida now.
AA has stumbled for a quarter of a century, beginning with their belief that they could do an out of court restructuring post 9/11. Their failure to get their costs down to the levels that everyone else in the industry got via chatper 11 is what doomed AA in the marketplace.
Parker completely short-circuited any chance of AA getting its finances in order when AA did file for chapter 11 by trying to make sure that US was not left w/o a partner.
AA struck out twice in two decades in getting its costs down and its network and service have repeatedly paid the price.
Is it possible that AA can turn itself around? It is possible but far more likely that WN will turn itself around after all it has announced than AA will - but AA might well make it.
AA is in a deep hole strategically and from a product standpoint. and they have no choice but to turn things around if AA is to have a future.
Right now, DL and UA have been growing as much as they have by gaining passengers and good revenue from AA.
With the greatest need to grow its domestic network, of course UA wants to see AA fail to retain high quality revenue. Chances are that, solely because of their networks, DL stands to continue to gain the most AA revenue and passengers if AA doesn't turn itself.
Isom has to prove that AA can turn itself around in the next couple of years. If he succeeds, then there is a place for 3 high revenue/profit megacarriers. If AA fails, UA is not likely to get as much of AA's revenue and passengers as other carriers, esp. DL, other than at ORD.
Jesus Christ, you had no dog in this race but you just couldn't help yourself. Thank god it's bedtime.
He is paid by the word, at $0.00 per. You could come up with a more unlikable person if you thought really hard, but it might take you all day.
both of you two prove you are incapable of actually discussing the topic or engaging other than attack?
Says volumes more about you than me.
Cut the guy a break. If he didn't have this to do he'd be whacking off to beastiality porn.
@Tim Dunn,
When I think of a premium airline, I do not think of such from a purely domestic service. It is noteworthy that you focused solely on the ME3 carriers when a better comparison may have been JAL, ANA, AF, LH and BA. Companies that all have domestic markets and are more or less considered to be premium airlines and certainly better than any of the US3. Well at least JAL, ANA,AF and BA are better.
the reason I did not list JAL and ANA is because there is a domestic market in Japan - but the domestic service is very different from the international service which both carriers do well.
AF, LH and BA all have some level of domestic service but I would sincerely beg to differ w/ you if you think their domestic service is any better than US carrier domestic service.
@Tim
The UA CEO did not state AA is incapable of becoming a premium domestic carrier. He said a premium carrier. That would indicate that his judgement is not restricted solely to domestic operations.
UA's hubs are much better positioned to do so. For example, DL has functionally no useful presence in TX, whereas AA has DFW and UA has IAH
United is #3 in Texas and WN has greater overlap w/ AA in the markets where AA is strong.
If Kirby really means that the #2 or below is at a disadvantage, then that certainly applies to UA in Texas.
and actual facts show that DL has gained more revenue from AA than UA has.
AA and DL share the SE and southern tier, are equally sized in Florida and have hubs that serve the same airports in NYC.
UA's benefit from AA comes at ORD.
Tim, your argument contradicts itself.
- If US airlines truly benefit from the large domestic market and corporate travel, they should leverage this advantage to elevate their product, not use it as an excuse for mediocrity.
- Many foreign carriers like JAL, ANA, and Air France successfully manage both domestic and international operations while maintaining superior service standards.
- You can't simultaneously claim US carriers have a market advantage while using that same market as...
Tim, your argument contradicts itself.
- If US airlines truly benefit from the large domestic market and corporate travel, they should leverage this advantage to elevate their product, not use it as an excuse for mediocrity.
- Many foreign carriers like JAL, ANA, and Air France successfully manage both domestic and international operations while maintaining superior service standards.
- You can't simultaneously claim US carriers have a market advantage while using that same market as a reason they can't compete on quality.
- Delta is number one in the US. But being the most premium US carrier is a lot like being the world's tallest dwarf.
Finally, None of the countries you cited at the top of your comment need domestic air travel:
- Singapore: 280 square miles
- Hong Kong: 427 square miles
- Qatar: Smaller than Connecticut
- UAE: Size of South Carolina
@Tim Dunn --- Singapore is just under 300 sq miles and Hong Kong is just over 400 sq miles. Your opening argument is that Singapore and Hong Kong do not have a domestic market... really .... that is all you have??? So weak. So consistent.
What a stupid argument. How is SQ "international" flight between SIN and KUL different from DL "domestic" flight between JFK and BOS? What does crossing a line on the map have to do with the quality of service?
The only difference here is American public's willingness to suffer and accept crap service. We see the same in the hotel industry.
What a load of nonsense. Air France (and Aeroflot) have domestic long haul flights. These offer a higher level of service than their *drum roll* InTeRnAtIoNaL flights to Geneva or Bilbao, or the BRU route which is left to the railway.
no, a domestic French, Japanese. or German flight does not offer service comparable to a US flight of the same distance.
As for SQ and CX, a US transcon flight is as long or longer than everything up and down the Pacific rim.
I can absolutely assure you that SQ and CX charge higher average fares on a cost of living adjusted basis for those flights than the big 3 do.
And there are...
no, a domestic French, Japanese. or German flight does not offer service comparable to a US flight of the same distance.
As for SQ and CX, a US transcon flight is as long or longer than everything up and down the Pacific rim.
I can absolutely assure you that SQ and CX charge higher average fares on a cost of living adjusted basis for those flights than the big 3 do.
And there are many ULCCs in Europe and Asia that are flying routes as long as US transcons just as NK and F9 do.
You can't stand to admit that the big 3 really do compare fairly favorably on domestic flights.
They may not offer the level of service on international flights as some foreign carriers but that is not true for domestic flights.
You're talking nonsense. There's no difference between "domestic" and "international" service on most European carriers, certainly not on Lufthansa for example. You get exactly the same service whether you're flying Frankfurt to Munich or Frankfurt to Salzburg. There's no difference at all, not even one small detail. LH service is based exclusively on the flight distance.
Did you know there are 10+ hours long domestic flights in France? The service on AF is exactly the...
You're talking nonsense. There's no difference between "domestic" and "international" service on most European carriers, certainly not on Lufthansa for example. You get exactly the same service whether you're flying Frankfurt to Munich or Frankfurt to Salzburg. There's no difference at all, not even one small detail. LH service is based exclusively on the flight distance.
Did you know there are 10+ hours long domestic flights in France? The service on AF is exactly the same whether you're flying ORY to PTP or CDG to HKG. It's the distance that matters. Only on the shortest routes within metropole (up to ~90 minutes) there's slightly decreased J service compared to international.
Japan? Maybe. But domestic Japan service is light years ahead of US carriers.
I left my AA Pro-Platinum status to be matched at Delta and never looked back. DL may have issues, but AA is much, MUCH worse. Expecting me to use my own tablet for entertainment? Why? I'll take the state-of-the art *personalized* seatback screens on DL. Plus I never have to go through the shtholes of TX and FL ever again.
Hear! Hear! Connecting thru Miami.... OY!!!!
I think the seatback screen vs personal device is a generational issue -- in 30 years, everyone will be using their own devices for everything, setback screens will seem as quaint as printed newspapers.
Premium to American is $11 bottle of wine in business class instead of $6.
Beyond shocked that this thread hasn’t been derailed yet to highlight Delta’s premiumness. Suites…with doors!!!
you seem disappointed.
And AA is rolling out a business class suite product; UA is not. DL will have about 80 widebodies with it by the end of the year.
UA will roll out a suite on their 321XLR narrowbodies -just like AA and DL - but that is the only place it will likely be on UA for years.
Are you sure you really want to there
Tim Dunn = definition of a cunt
see above.
You throw bait out there and then can't stand when someone actually bites your hand
Is it hard going through life knowing literally no one likes you? The OMAAT community is quite curious.
You seriously, genuinely seem like a poor human being.
I like Tim. I mean, as free entertainment, he is fantastic. Yep, he doesn’t realize that no one but him cares about the 73837383 words he writes and probably ***** off to. He doesn’t realize the no one but him takes what he writes as “contributing to the discussion”, when in reality it’s just nonsense produced by a deluded mind. But where else can you see someone make such a fool or himself on a daily basis for free ?
you two aren't smart enough to figure out that you do nothing to silence me if that is your goal.
If you don't want to or aren't capable of responding to the topics I raise, then just walk away.
All you do is give me all the more reason to keep posting in response to your stupidity.
I’d like to say that as a daily reader I think Tim has actual decent insight into Delta. Sure there can be bias but still solid knowledge and really something I appreciate on this blog.
@Bk93 decent insight overshadowed by his consistent need of defending DL to where he can’t. When DL wanted to raise the requirements for medallion status and then it backfired, Tim was I believe nearly dead silent on that OMAAT post.
(long-time lurker, infrequent commenter because you people scare me.)
Chicago-based AA loyalist here. I admittedly have next-to-no experience with Delta despite being either Chicago or NYC-based for the last nearly two decades, but I have found my experiences with AA and UA to be not all too different WHEN THINGS GO RIGHT. When things go WRONG, I find myself much less stressed out when dealing with AA customer service, either in-person but ESPECIALLY on the...
(long-time lurker, infrequent commenter because you people scare me.)
Chicago-based AA loyalist here. I admittedly have next-to-no experience with Delta despite being either Chicago or NYC-based for the last nearly two decades, but I have found my experiences with AA and UA to be not all too different WHEN THINGS GO RIGHT. When things go WRONG, I find myself much less stressed out when dealing with AA customer service, either in-person but ESPECIALLY on the phone. ("Thank you for calling American Airlines, this is Peggy," she says with a thick Texas drawl.)
Service-wise, also minimal differences. All I expect is a pleasant "hello" and a smile when giving me my Diet Coke and free pretzels. (I'll note that American offers free booze in Main Cabin Extra while United does NOT do this in Economy Plus. Point, American.) Some of you seem to want an "ooooh, yessa massa" from flight attendants as they tend to you. Might I remind you that these people are at work. Client-facing or not, I challenge you to show me someone who is 100% "on" all day every day while at work. I'll wait...
I travel frequently for work to some places that United can actually get me to nonstop (MEX, primarily) and this is one area where I will completely cede the advantage to United; their network—especially long haul—out of ORD puts AA's to shame. AA is far too reliant upon IAG in Europe (I'm SO friggin' tired of LHR) and JAL/CX in Asia (though the latter affects me less professionally). Between AA, BA, IB, and EI, it shouldn't take more than one stop from an AA hub to even a secondary market European city, yet it often does.
Additionally, while I couldn't care less about seat-back TVs for short hops (I frequently just stare out the window and listen to music anyway) but AA's cabins need a "zhuzh" for sure; here's hoping that premium-heavy 787-9 rolls out soon as rumored. I was fortunate to be "up front" on a recent United flight that boasted its most recent cabin configuration and... MY GOD. I wanted to shamefully tuck my Platinum Pro luggage tag under my bag so nobody could see it. The design, the finishes, the technology. It was really, really nice! ...and then the food came and it was all downhill from there.
Long-haul, I've only experienced AA "up front" and it's fine; could be better, could be worse; has been lacking, and has been stellar. I've experienced PE on both and I feel like AA had the edge there; the service felt separate from that of Main Cabin but certainly not the same as Business.
Where am I going with this? No idea, other than to agree with others that none of the Big Three are "premium" compared to airlines in other parts in the world. Also, the only people demanding for airlines to be "premium" are us; people privileged to travel regularly and perhaps have the means to pay for what "premium" could possibly be. I think it's a bit arrogant to assume that folks in larger markets are just walking down the street lighting hundred dollar bills on fire. If ANYPLACE has a populace that is mindful of cost (compared to frills) it's going to be New York and LA and (to a lesser extent) Chicago. (It's surpassingly affordable here.) Unless those are the only three cities you're going to serve, then have it. But you can't bring that "premium" nonsense to Wichita and Des Moines and Albuquerque and expect it to fly. (See what I did there?)
Okay, that's it, I'm done.
"When things go WRONG, I find myself much less stressed out when dealing with AA customer service, either in-person but ESPECIALLY on the phone. ("Thank you for calling American Airlines, this is Peggy," she says with a thick Texas drawl.)"
I once got reprimanded by an AA CSR on the AAdvantage desk in Dallas for telling her she was a great help (she booked a CX reward flight for me in like 90 seconds) and...
"When things go WRONG, I find myself much less stressed out when dealing with AA customer service, either in-person but ESPECIALLY on the phone. ("Thank you for calling American Airlines, this is Peggy," she says with a thick Texas drawl.)"
I once got reprimanded by an AA CSR on the AAdvantage desk in Dallas for telling her she was a great help (she booked a CX reward flight for me in like 90 seconds) and could I ask her first name for future reference? She acted like I was asking for her home number. This was when I was Platinum and had those little slips to call out great service, which I never got to use, of course.
And to this point:
"Some of you seem to want an "ooooh, yessa massa" from flight attendants as they tend to you."
This is why service culture in America is so cratered. Because, outside of a tipping environment, the expectation for someone to be warm and friendly in a hospitality industry (yes, that is a function of being an FA... not just safety) equates to wanting special favors.
I remember when I first worked...
And to this point:
"Some of you seem to want an "ooooh, yessa massa" from flight attendants as they tend to you."
This is why service culture in America is so cratered. Because, outside of a tipping environment, the expectation for someone to be warm and friendly in a hospitality industry (yes, that is a function of being an FA... not just safety) equates to wanting special favors.
I remember when I first worked in the UK and my colleagues wanted to knock my block off for instinctively tipping all the time. I just couldn't understand how someone could smile and be warm and friendly in the course of their work without expecting extra cash in pocket.
It's really not that. Service culture doesn't exist in the US because working class individuals are paid nothing with no benefits and minimal chance of upwards mobility.
And this has created a mindset of doing the bare minimum to scrape by and get the paycheck, rather than being fulfilled with their role.
Asian countries excel at service because the workers take pride in their work and customer satisfaction is that metric.
Pre US Airways/America Worst take over AA had great employees and was considered a premium airline.
However with the departure of the service oriented employees and the “I’ll take anything out of the product that costs many” the last ten years I can’t see them making the adjustments need at the people level
Kirby’s point is totally valid. AA has two products: 1) do you want to connect over DFW or CLT and 2) do you want to have one of those segments be on American Eagle to Nowheresville? The rest of the product they sell is really about making this core product more meaningful. I am a 7 or 8 year Exec P and I have a good sense of why I do business with AA. It’s not fancy.
Bottom line:
American’s board made the wrong decision getting rid of Kirby.
Any airline can be premium if they truly invest in their product—both hard and soft, and their people—something American has never truly done, as they are all lip service.
AA will never become premium with this leadership and this board. They don’t even truly understand what premium is and will do things half way and then drop back from there.
In order...
Bottom line:
American’s board made the wrong decision getting rid of Kirby.
Any airline can be premium if they truly invest in their product—both hard and soft, and their people—something American has never truly done, as they are all lip service.
AA will never become premium with this leadership and this board. They don’t even truly understand what premium is and will do things half way and then drop back from there.
In order for American to truly become premium they would have to replace the board, the CEO and entire executive suite. That would take an outside source such as an activist investor or union revolt, as there is no one inside the company that has the power to do that.
Perhaps we need to give grace to Kirby, if he's so focused on comparing United against Delta and American that he doesn't know what a premium product is. If he had any knowledge of the hard and soft product of carriers in Asian, Middle East, etc. he wouldn't be bragging about United being "premium" so much.
I think what Isom really does not understand at all is that American, by far, has the largest amount of customer unfriendly policies. And their utter lack of customer service. Or care.
AA has a reasonable schedule in some markets, the aircraft are ok (minus some maintenance issues on the 321T), the catering is usually better than at UA, however Internet is an increasingly huge issue with AA, especially once UA has Starlink rolled...
I think what Isom really does not understand at all is that American, by far, has the largest amount of customer unfriendly policies. And their utter lack of customer service. Or care.
AA has a reasonable schedule in some markets, the aircraft are ok (minus some maintenance issues on the 321T), the catering is usually better than at UA, however Internet is an increasingly huge issue with AA, especially once UA has Starlink rolled out.
BUT... Their customer service is on a Spirit Airlines level:
- AAs same day change policy is not only super restrictive, real people are no longer allowed to assist with issues. You all have to do it online.
Since the policy change I had more than one occasion where I saw an aircraft leaving with empty seats (and without me).
- Their call center is either non-existent or crap
- Complaints are answered by a AI-computer with suboptimal results
- With the planned introduction of no mileage credit for OTA bookings, they scared away more business travelers
- AAs constant credit card harassment is beyond words.
- The app is more than suboptimal. The app is shit.
- You can't even bother to book international F as on every single flight the cabin is full of misbehaving staff.
In addition, staff morale on AA is by far the worst among the US3. People at AA have given up and it shows. Staff are rude or just don't care. Months after their new contract FAs still run around with their WAR lanyards. Its ridiculous.
I am also quite surprised how far AA tailored they loyalty program to the US market, it almost seems as AA has given up on the international market.
Isom makes no real intent to fix any of the above issues, nor he seems able to realize the business he is in. He is in a people business, yet he treats passengers as SLF. Self loading freight.
American degraded itself to a completely faceless and replaceable airline over the past decade, with Nadella assuming that people choose an airline over its schedule more than anything else. Regretfully American does not run a monopoly in most markets, and thus they have nothing to differentiate themselves, quite the opposite is the case.
Without a fundamentally changed mentality I highly doubt AA will be able to charge the premiums they desperately need to cover their stunningly high operating cost.
There is no US premium carrier just a protected market. Would never set a foot in a US carrier if SQ, LH, AF, KE, JL could fly in the US. Even Air Asia, Bangkok air is better than what flies here.
Oh please, whatever. Even if US officials allowed cabotage tomorrow, in what fantasy world do you see any of those airlines flying a damn thing beyond NYC-Califoria. MAYBE NYC-Florida.
I almost wish the bluff would be called, just to watch each and every one of them get their behinds handed to them on a cost basis, trying to domestically fly premium-equipped aircraft in hyper-competitive domestic markets like Chicago, Dallas, Denver, intra-California, intra-Florida, etc. Where...
Oh please, whatever. Even if US officials allowed cabotage tomorrow, in what fantasy world do you see any of those airlines flying a damn thing beyond NYC-Califoria. MAYBE NYC-Florida.
I almost wish the bluff would be called, just to watch each and every one of them get their behinds handed to them on a cost basis, trying to domestically fly premium-equipped aircraft in hyper-competitive domestic markets like Chicago, Dallas, Denver, intra-California, intra-Florida, etc. Where passengers have proven time and time again that they will NOT pay a premium, over frequency and lower price.
If you need some references, there's still plenty executives from Legend Airlines, Virgin America, etc who'd be happy to tell you all about it.
Fifth freedom routes could work fine for a few airlines, Ethiopian have a bunch of them in Europe.
First, fifth freedom has zero to do with the US domestic market (that'd be 8th and 9th freedoms) and second, the USA offers 5th freedom to plenty of airlines, just very few choose to use them.
Emirates does. Air Tahiti Nui does. A few others, but not many.
There are only two factors keeping AA around in the supposed "premium airline" discussion despite its subpar service, lack of seatback screens, high involuntary denied boarding rate, uncomfortable ansd boring grey seats, and mediocre food.
These are its international transfer partnerships (particularly JAL and Qatar) and its NYC to London route. The NYC-London route is not easily contestable (Delta can somewhat compete with its Virgin Atlantic partnership), but the transfer partnerships are. If Delta...
There are only two factors keeping AA around in the supposed "premium airline" discussion despite its subpar service, lack of seatback screens, high involuntary denied boarding rate, uncomfortable ansd boring grey seats, and mediocre food.
These are its international transfer partnerships (particularly JAL and Qatar) and its NYC to London route. The NYC-London route is not easily contestable (Delta can somewhat compete with its Virgin Atlantic partnership), but the transfer partnerships are. If Delta or United wise up and offer better partner business class award redemption rates to Asia and the Middle East then it will be the beginning of the end for American, just as matching Spirit through basic econony eliminated its sole advantage.
Let’s be honest, all these three airlines in the US has nothing to do with “premium”.
The people have defined not by their words, but by their pocketbooks, what a premium carry is in 2025. The US had quite a few premium carriers back in the 50s - 70s when airlines all charged the same (high) fare and competed solely on schedule and service. And AA, BN, CO, PA and UA were all excellent carriers offering what we would now consider to be a premium product. Today, no carrier offers a...
The people have defined not by their words, but by their pocketbooks, what a premium carry is in 2025. The US had quite a few premium carriers back in the 50s - 70s when airlines all charged the same (high) fare and competed solely on schedule and service. And AA, BN, CO, PA and UA were all excellent carriers offering what we would now consider to be a premium product. Today, no carrier offers a premium service like they did back then, because few if any people are willing to pay for it. Flying is now nothing more than a quick bus ride. The airlines know this and they will just keep adding lipstick to the pig until something changes in the marketplace.
I haven’t seen a US airline try to add lipstick in a decade. They just keep wheeling out a more surly pig.
ROFLMAO. I couldn't have said it better.
Premium for me only equates to service. Flying for leisure and business for nearly 30 years now, the flights that stand out to me domestically or from US carriers are the ones where the cabin crew was friendly and went above/beyond. And I only book my flights internationally or redeem miles with foreign carriers, because I know I'll be getting a premium service standard for the cost. I have never had a single unpleasant experience...
Premium for me only equates to service. Flying for leisure and business for nearly 30 years now, the flights that stand out to me domestically or from US carriers are the ones where the cabin crew was friendly and went above/beyond. And I only book my flights internationally or redeem miles with foreign carriers, because I know I'll be getting a premium service standard for the cost. I have never had a single unpleasant experience service-wise from a foreign carrier. That's saying something.
Everything else (hard product, food/bev, connectivity, etc.) is just the minimum standard. I can excuse lousy wine, broken IFE and worn seats if the crew makes a long flight enjoyable.
There’s no premium airline in the US and I don’t see this changing in the short to medium term.
I don't care if an airline has seatback screens as long as there is wifi and a decent drink selection accompanied by good service from the crew. U.S. carriers fail mostly because they have awful cabin crew.
I fly American quite often and on the contrary believe they have a significant international presence in many premium market.JFK everyday all over Europe. Asian out of LAX. South America out of JFK and MIA.
I live in a Delta hub and fly them often. I honestly can’t say I feel the service differs on any nearly any level other than the seat back entertainment. If American added WiFi and TVs I’d see no...
I fly American quite often and on the contrary believe they have a significant international presence in many premium market.JFK everyday all over Europe. Asian out of LAX. South America out of JFK and MIA.
I live in a Delta hub and fly them often. I honestly can’t say I feel the service differs on any nearly any level other than the seat back entertainment. If American added WiFi and TVs I’d see no difference. I also think American has a better business class product as it’s nearly identical across the board and many of delta’s older plans have underspending and uncomfortable premium cabins.
"Asian out of LAX"
You mean their grand total of 1 Asian destination there? lol
The only thing "world class" about AA/DL/US is the ego and hubris of their CEOs. There isn't room for 3of them...
Isom has been in lala land for years. The migration of his premium customers (me included) due to the product deteriorate over the past years has put them in a position where they may not survive the next economic downturn. it's like PanAM
Kirby is not far behind him as they are starting to...
The only thing "world class" about AA/DL/US is the ego and hubris of their CEOs. There isn't room for 3of them...
Isom has been in lala land for years. The migration of his premium customers (me included) due to the product deteriorate over the past years has put them in a position where they may not survive the next economic downturn. it's like PanAM
Kirby is not far behind him as they are starting to cut
Bastian's smile will start to turn into a frown when the new employee wage increases kick in and traffic drops causing to them to start cost cutting
As mentioned in a previous comment - there is really no world class US airline - especially internationally -
In order to be a premium airline, you need to provide a premium experience starting with customer-facing employees. American can't do that until it starts requiring employees to treat premium customers better. Employees that get complaints from customers need to be fired or reassigned to a non-customer facing role. At premium airlines (Emirates, Qatar, JAL, Singapore, Cathay, ANA, etc.) if a flight attendant gets more than one complaint from a premium passenger or a passenger...
In order to be a premium airline, you need to provide a premium experience starting with customer-facing employees. American can't do that until it starts requiring employees to treat premium customers better. Employees that get complaints from customers need to be fired or reassigned to a non-customer facing role. At premium airlines (Emirates, Qatar, JAL, Singapore, Cathay, ANA, etc.) if a flight attendant gets more than one complaint from a premium passenger or a passenger with status, they are terminated. American needs to do the same.
Unfortunately, laws, unions, etc. won't allow that.
How about Scott Kirby give his hard working flight attendants a premium contract? He is lagging way behind Delta and American in that aspect! He consistently brags about how profitable UAL has been, and invests nothing into his frontline employees. The flight attendants at UAL are very unhappy as their current contract has been expired for years now. Some of the flight attendants have to live in their cars or have multiple roommates, to make...
How about Scott Kirby give his hard working flight attendants a premium contract? He is lagging way behind Delta and American in that aspect! He consistently brags about how profitable UAL has been, and invests nothing into his frontline employees. The flight attendants at UAL are very unhappy as their current contract has been expired for years now. Some of the flight attendants have to live in their cars or have multiple roommates, to make ends meet. What does that say about the CEO of a premium airline?
Why does every legacy airline have to be an exact clone of every other airline?
Omg, just those guys think their airlines are premium Lol, there are no premium airlines in the U.S. right now
Premium to me is a combination of great hard and soft products. What does that have to do with a dominant competitive position?
I cannot imagine American becoming a Premium Airline. The lack of seat back entertainment, horrible buy-on-board meals, uncomfortable aircraft, an utter lack of a customer focused corporate culture. I flew AA in F 6 years ago, a multi-leg transcon journey and my partner and I have vowed never to fly AA again. Fortunately flying from TPA and given our travel patterns this is easy. You simply can't take a company the size of AA and...
I cannot imagine American becoming a Premium Airline. The lack of seat back entertainment, horrible buy-on-board meals, uncomfortable aircraft, an utter lack of a customer focused corporate culture. I flew AA in F 6 years ago, a multi-leg transcon journey and my partner and I have vowed never to fly AA again. Fortunately flying from TPA and given our travel patterns this is easy. You simply can't take a company the size of AA and change attitudes and service levels. They've gone too far in the direction of Frontier.
Who says Delta and United are premium? Yes, they are premium just like Putin is running a special military operation to de-nazify Ukraine. There IS room for 3 because look at Taiwan with EVA Air, Starlux, and China Airlines, though China Airlines is a tiny bit sub-premium.
In reality, Delta and United aspire to be premium and American does not or it's a very well kept secret.
I actually think CI is better than BR Derek.
Doesn't really matter whether there is room for two or three. AA's current product is shit. It would take a massive corporate paradigm shift, which isn't in the DNA of current management.
Don't be offended by my frank analysis - just think of it as Oasis-dialysis. American has an awfully long way to go to be premium
Some believe that there is more chance of Ryanair or EasyJet becoming a ‘premium airline’ than AA.
Anything made in America being pair with the word "Premium" is an oxymoron.
You can claim they're the biggest, fattest, loudest..., but "premium" is a joke. Most of the things that Americans think are "premium" made domestically, there are better or more elegant versions made by other countries, and for the ones where other countries don't, they're not even worth making,
Show us on the doll where the tariffs touched you.
You sound French.
I agree with others there is NO "premium" U.S. airline.
Delta and United are pretty mediocre by world standards and American isn't even in the ballpark. AA used to be my "go to" airline but every flight I've taken the last two years (and I literally mean "every") has been late -- one more than three hours on a 90° day in DFW waiting for catering with the doors wide open and no air conditioning. They don't have a clue.
You'll never be Premium with grey, vinyl seats.
I’m not really in agreement that a dominant position in Newark equals a dominant position in NYC. I consistently skip over United flights for this reason, as I assume so most fliers in search of a premium experience who are not bound to that airline. Also, let’s face it, no American Airlines are premium. Frankly the only example of a premium experience I can think of are the (to be discontinued) 3 cabin AA transcon...
I’m not really in agreement that a dominant position in Newark equals a dominant position in NYC. I consistently skip over United flights for this reason, as I assume so most fliers in search of a premium experience who are not bound to that airline. Also, let’s face it, no American Airlines are premium. Frankly the only example of a premium experience I can think of are the (to be discontinued) 3 cabin AA transcon flights. Certainly nothing that United would be sending from ewr.
Probably because you're one of those people who still can't get it through your head that airlines do not, did not, and never will, care about arbitrary imaginary lines of cities-proper. They look at the metropolitan area's catchment or catchments, and operate accordingly. Whether you like it or not, Greater NYC metro's catchment includes EWR, among several other airports not in NYC proper.
That doesn't mean it's convenient for everyone. No one in Jackson Heights...
Probably because you're one of those people who still can't get it through your head that airlines do not, did not, and never will, care about arbitrary imaginary lines of cities-proper. They look at the metropolitan area's catchment or catchments, and operate accordingly. Whether you like it or not, Greater NYC metro's catchment includes EWR, among several other airports not in NYC proper.
That doesn't mean it's convenient for everyone. No one in Jackson Heights is expected to look to EWR for domestic service when LGA is right there. But that doesn't exclude it from the above.
"Premium" airline when compared to the US market; all three have a long way to go before they can be called Premium in the context of worldwide. So disappointing. And American - will not be Premium as the writer stated because they have such poor customer service.
AA isn't competitive in NYC, except for one aspect: JFK-LHR JV with British. It wins hands down with 12 daily departures vs Delta's 8, amazing lounges and connectivity at LHR to basically go everywhere. Business people don't really want to fly to Europe on the 3 times a week schedule Delta mainly has for smaller European cities. Delta's lounges are still not as good as AA-BA joint lounges. United needs to be in JFK, and...
AA isn't competitive in NYC, except for one aspect: JFK-LHR JV with British. It wins hands down with 12 daily departures vs Delta's 8, amazing lounges and connectivity at LHR to basically go everywhere. Business people don't really want to fly to Europe on the 3 times a week schedule Delta mainly has for smaller European cities. Delta's lounges are still not as good as AA-BA joint lounges. United needs to be in JFK, and Kirby's correct, there isn't room for three premium US airlines at JFK.
“Delta’s lounges are still not as good as AA-BA joint lounges.”
Oh sweetie, that’s an adorable statement. The Delta One lounge makes the AA/BA business lounge at JFK look like a dumpster. And the SkyClub similarly blows the Admirals Club out of the water.
@George. I have never visited the most recent incarnation of the Concorde Room lounge at LHR, but Virgin's Clubhouse that DL pax can use, is better than every BA Business Class Lounge at LHR
Which business lounge at JFK are you referring to? Soho, Chelsea or Greenwich? Guarantee you that the Soho and Chelsea lounges are superior to 3 hours in Delta One with a line outside.
As others have said, what's 'premium'?
Kirby's airline sells first class tickets without lounge access, serves meals in transatlantic business class which would barely qualify as dog food, doesn't open the premium check in desks at hubs (e.g. IAH) in time for the first departures, sells full-Y tickets with zero hold luggage, excludes top tier elites from international airport-run lounges with which it has contracts etc. I'm not saying that it's necessarily worse than...
As others have said, what's 'premium'?
Kirby's airline sells first class tickets without lounge access, serves meals in transatlantic business class which would barely qualify as dog food, doesn't open the premium check in desks at hubs (e.g. IAH) in time for the first departures, sells full-Y tickets with zero hold luggage, excludes top tier elites from international airport-run lounges with which it has contracts etc. I'm not saying that it's necessarily worse than its domestic competition, but in global terms it's mid-market at best, basically a bit more premium than a low cost carrier.
There's no shame in competing on price or schedule and no reason to create unrealistic expectations for their customers and other stakeholders.
If being a premium airline means destroying its frequent flyer program and squeezing its frequent flyers, perhaps we should all selfishly wish American to remain non-premium.
"American has been so focused on being a domestic airline, and doesn’t have nearly as compelling of a long haul route network as United, despite its compelling joint ventures."
Bingo!!
Especially true for me as a NYC-area flyer. United has the best network here!
AA isn’t any less “premium” than the other airlines. What does that even mean?
Experiences are similar on all three, unless you foam at the mouth when you see a 6” tv in the headrest. Using this to define “uncompetitive” interiors is a bit much, given their long haul is more consistent than DL, and their new biz looks great. Heck, one could even argue that AA is the ONLY premium airline, since it’s the only one with long haul first :)
The entire premise of this article is wild lol. I’m amazed he’s even suggesting that delta or united fit that category (as in the blog writer, not the airline executive who or course is going to state that.)
What planet is anyone living on if you consider that there is even one premium US based airline? It’s totally laughable.
What even is a premium airline
“What even is a premium airline“
For those who really do not know; copy and paste the link below …. easy, yes?
https://www.worldairlineawards.com/worlds-top-100-airlines-2024/
WOW ! thanks !
None of these 100 airlines offer a "premium" experience to the vast majority of their passengers.
Betterbub, surely you cannot possibly be serious now?
If so, I would like to suggest that you had ‘better-bub-up’ on your world airline knowledge as you have made a statement which is totally unrealistic.
Betterbub, surely you cannot possibly be serious now?
If so, I would like to suggest that you had ‘better-bub-up’ on your world airline knowledge as you have made a statement which is totally unrealistic.
To be fair, premium is not defined in a vacuum. It's a product categorisation that is used to describe the main bucket of pricing of a certain category of products in a certain market.
It is above "mainstream" which should be the majority of products sold in a certain market which itself is situated above "affordable" or "low cost". Above premium you find super premium or ultra premium.
So the question is which...
To be fair, premium is not defined in a vacuum. It's a product categorisation that is used to describe the main bucket of pricing of a certain category of products in a certain market.
It is above "mainstream" which should be the majority of products sold in a certain market which itself is situated above "affordable" or "low cost". Above premium you find super premium or ultra premium.
So the question is which market are we talking about. This article is clear we are talking about US-based carriers.
To define who is premium you need to define the distribution and see what you have.
TRASM 2024 is as follows:
Delta 21 CTS
United 18 CTS
American 18 CTS
Southwest 15 CTS
JetBlue 14 cts
Frontier 10 cts
Spirit 9 CTS
So it seems it's clear where the belly is, currently United is as mainstream as American, Delta is "premium" in comparison but a 15% differential is not much in the great scheme of things. And there is a long tail of "affordable" options.
Now obviously you can further subdivide and claim the analysis only applies to business class or international travel or yield should be used instead of RASM or the color of the leather or what not. but those caveats where not formulated by the different CEOs. Which probably indicates the extent to which this debate is mostly name calling and bears little value...
Number one, "premium" is very limited in any of the US3. If your sitting in a narrow body coach seat you're not having a "premium experience." Big difference between 1A on an AA 77W versus 34E on a 321 Neo. This isn't 1970.
Second, I don't fly UA but I'd be interested UA FF giving opinions of irregular operations. With AA its usually a total cluster. Number two would be the crew. AA FA won't...
Number one, "premium" is very limited in any of the US3. If your sitting in a narrow body coach seat you're not having a "premium experience." Big difference between 1A on an AA 77W versus 34E on a 321 Neo. This isn't 1970.
Second, I don't fly UA but I'd be interested UA FF giving opinions of irregular operations. With AA its usually a total cluster. Number two would be the crew. AA FA won't even do a second beverage service in coach on longer flights. Even in F after the meal service they're often NARDO. Third, would be customer facing technology. Again, AA usually comes in behind. I'm still fighting to get miles/LPs due from purchased upgrades, after one month.
My experience with UA IROPs is the station will blame weather - even if the gate agents tell you otherwise - and you have to incur expenses then file with UA for reimbursement, which is entirely at their discretion.
I have no idea if Kirby was actually the Voice No One Heeded, but there's no question that pre-merger AA positioned itself as a more upscale airline. JFK-LHR and JFK-LAX were huge routes, they had major contracts in the entertainment industry which is part of what led them to installing a 3-cabin F product, and their hubs were in the major business markets of NYC, ORD, DFW, MIA, LAX.
Then they pivoted. They made...
I have no idea if Kirby was actually the Voice No One Heeded, but there's no question that pre-merger AA positioned itself as a more upscale airline. JFK-LHR and JFK-LAX were huge routes, they had major contracts in the entertainment industry which is part of what led them to installing a 3-cabin F product, and their hubs were in the major business markets of NYC, ORD, DFW, MIA, LAX.
Then they pivoted. They made a decision to focus on leisure travelers going to Tampa. Charlotte, the least premium hub in the US, became a major focus on the airline. Instead of downgrading PHL in favor of JFK and PHX in favor of LAX they doubled down on both, preferring to not compete for the high value dollars and instead raise fares in captive markets.
They ripped PTVs out of planes, underinvested in their premium product, and abandoned many international destinations. In every way other than their continued dominance in Latin America, their model is just a scaled-up US Airways.
Can they be premium again? Maybe. But they'll have to dismantle everything they've stood for across a decade
How did AA fail so hard internationally when they were gifted basically all the best partners for every market. BA for LHR, QF for South Pacific, and JAL is an even contender with ANA for Japan/Asia.
They've even made up with the premier ME carrier Qatar.
Someone should've asked Scott Kirby if the premium US airlines are in the room with us.
There are no premium US airlines. Not even close.
Strongly concur. US airlines won't even come close until they at least:
- Get more pitch in economy and premium economy
- Improve meal quality (especially in business class)
- Offer true premium service and amenities in business class (and overall on the rest of the plane)
- Modernize their fleets
- Offer better ground experience (new Delta One lounges only go halfway)
- Teach their employees to more reliably...
Strongly concur. US airlines won't even come close until they at least:
- Get more pitch in economy and premium economy
- Improve meal quality (especially in business class)
- Offer true premium service and amenities in business class (and overall on the rest of the plane)
- Modernize their fleets
- Offer better ground experience (new Delta One lounges only go halfway)
- Teach their employees to more reliably treat customers nicely (at least they have Lufthansa to look down on)
Not sure why a country with a $27-28 trillion GDP can't produce a truly premium airline.
Lol, probably Isom was rehearsing some Apr-1 speech...
It absolutely would be well-positioned to become a premium airline, but that requires a clear vision and willpower, two things AA leadership emphatically does not have.
American desperately needs new leadership. A C-Suite who has run something other than a budget airline would actually know what the word premium means.
Consistency between long haul and short haul products. Utilizing the incredible partner networks to actually fly jets to interesting places. Deliver consistent service and a meaningful buy on board product domestically. Build a network and product that makes sense as two pieces of the same whole.
Isom can’t comprehend...
American desperately needs new leadership. A C-Suite who has run something other than a budget airline would actually know what the word premium means.
Consistency between long haul and short haul products. Utilizing the incredible partner networks to actually fly jets to interesting places. Deliver consistent service and a meaningful buy on board product domestically. Build a network and product that makes sense as two pieces of the same whole.
Isom can’t comprehend any of this.
Agreed. His completely nonsensical "rebuttal" demonstrates how little vision there is at the top. Clean them out, and replace them with people who are capable of higher thought.
Bring on the comments. This is about to be good.
On this episode of United CEO thinks series....