American Reports Paltry 2024 Profits, Disappointing 2025 Outlook

American Reports Paltry 2024 Profits, Disappointing 2025 Outlook

54

Recently we’ve seen both Delta Air Lines and United Airlines report their impressive 2024 financial results, and paint a rosy picture of 2025, predicting it will be the best year in history for the two companies. Well, now American Airlines has revealed its 2024 financial results and has issued its 2025 forecast, and it’s a very different story…

American Airlines’ disappointing financial results & forecast

American Airlines has revealed the details of its 2024 financials, and it was… an okay year by American’s (low) standards? In terms of full year 2024 financial results:

  • American had operating revenue of $54.2 billion, a 2.7% increase compared to the $52.8 billion operating revenue in 2023
  • American had operating income of $2.6 billion, a 13.9% decrease compared to the $3.0 billion operating income in 2023
  • American had net income of $846 million, a 2.9% increase compared to the $822 million net income in 2023
  • American had passenger revenue per available seat mile of 16.93 cents, a 3.1% decrease compared to 17.47 cents in 2023
  • American had cost per available seat mile of 17.61 cents, a 1.7% decrease compared to 17.92 cents in 2023
  • American had earnings per share of $1.24, a 2.5% increase compared to the $1.21 earnings per share in 2023

2024 was a year with record revenue for American. The carrier’s net income was marginally higher than in 2023. Prior to that, American lost money in 2020 through 2022. What’s wild is that American’s net income is so much smaller than it was in 2014 through 2019 (and in the years prior to that, American was losing money). Just to show how far the airline has fallen, in 2015, American reported a net income of $7.6 billion.

While Delta and United recently reported that they expected the first quarter of 2025 to exceed expectations, that’s not the case at American. Instead, American expects first quarter losses per share of $0.20-0.40, which is more of a loss than investors anticipated. Nonetheless, the airline expects full year earnings per year of $1.70 to $2.70.

Here’s what American CEO Robert Isom had to say:

“The American Airlines team achieved a number of important objectives in 2024. We continue to run a reliable operation, and we are reengineering the business to build an even more efficient airline. That, coupled with our commercial actions, resulted in strong financial performance in the fourth quarter. As we look ahead to this year, American remains well-positioned because of the strength of our network, loyalty and co-branded credit card programs, fleet and operational reliability, and the tremendous work of our team.”

American’s financial performance isn’t great

How much longer will American Airlines’ board be asleep?

I’ve said it a million times before, and I’ll say it again. I don’t understand how American Airlines’ current management team is still in power. This seems like borderline negligence on the part of the company’s board. How can you watch an airline underperform quarter after quarter, and just not do anything?

The thing is, it’s not like American is executing some amazing vision right now, and is asking investors to give the company more time for the results to catch up. Instead, the airline just keeps underperforming its peers, and everyone is acting like that’s just fine and dandy.

As I’ve often said, airline executives have tough jobs, and they always have to sell Wall Street on what a good investment airlines are, even though they aren’t (at least in the long run). I’m reminded of how in 2017, former American CEO Doug Parker said that the airline would never lose money again, and he claimed that even in a bad year, the airline should earn around $3 billion in profits. That sure didn’t age well, did it?

While all airlines are tough businesses, you can’t help but notice the contrast in direction between American and United, with Scott Kirby now at the helm at United. He has brought United into Delta’s league, and has left American in the dust. You don’t have to be a genius to figure out that American is underperforming peers, and has zero momentum.

American lacks any sort of vision or momentum

Bottom line

American Airlines has reported its 2024 financial results and 2025 outlook, and unsurprisingly, the airline is greatly lagging its rivals. I don’t think anyone will be surprised by these results. The only thing I can’t wrap my head around is how the current management team seems to have such job security…

What do you make of American’s continued underperformance?

Conversations (54)
The comments on this page have not been provided, reviewed, approved or otherwise endorsed by any advertiser, and it is not an advertiser's responsibility to ensure posts and/or questions are answered.
Type your response here.

If you'd like to participate in the discussion, please adhere to our commenting guidelines. Anyone can comment, and your email address will not be published. Register to save your unique username and earn special OMAAT reputation perks!

  1. SW Guest

    Loved my red-eye on Delta last night, the tired old 757 sures looks nice but no wifi? Lame.

  2. Dwondermeant Guest

    For me my ticket revenue goes where towards where aspirational awards are in premium cabins so I can earn miles
    I booked upper class one way on Virgin for 29k on points on an A 350
    AA was a mere 425k points in business class on a 777
    Guess which one I chose?
    I also booked BA In business class on the A350 because even with their extortion fees /surcharges still...

    For me my ticket revenue goes where towards where aspirational awards are in premium cabins so I can earn miles
    I booked upper class one way on Virgin for 29k on points on an A 350
    AA was a mere 425k points in business class on a 777
    Guess which one I chose?
    I also booked BA In business class on the A350 because even with their extortion fees /surcharges still less than AA
    AA needs to reasonably compete but now I can fly to Dallas from the west coast for 70k in coach one way.I think they are smoking what delta smoked they need a reality check

  3. Joseph Guest

    I have been ExP for like 7 or 8 years and I don't hate American Airlines. Everything is useless except: 1) AAdvantage Miles have value and I get useful redemptions. 2) I sometimes need to go to places where niche American Eagle markets are useful. 3) I usually pay for First on mainline. I am regularly upgraded on American Eagle flights so I may book those in economy with good luck. 4) I really like...

    I have been ExP for like 7 or 8 years and I don't hate American Airlines. Everything is useless except: 1) AAdvantage Miles have value and I get useful redemptions. 2) I sometimes need to go to places where niche American Eagle markets are useful. 3) I usually pay for First on mainline. I am regularly upgraded on American Eagle flights so I may book those in economy with good luck. 4) I really like oneworld Emerald for international lounge access. 5) I have the credit card for lounge access, which I would not duplicate with another airline. Lounges are dumps but sometimes provide the least gross bathrooms at the airport. My home airport is LAX so I can choose any of the big 3 plus I have good Alaska access.

    I really appreciate the debt analysis in the comments. I have worked for years with PE flipped/heavily indebted organizations. It is all about cost beginning middle and end in those environments because it's a lever that they always have control over. I don't know that I think of AA as being particularly cost conscious. It's the same kind of badness it always has been.

  4. BayAreaTravlr New Member

    The Board is asleep at the wheel, but honestly it’s not a particularly distinguished bunch even if they were paying attention. Several retired executives - 5 - including the current AA Board chair, who appears to be none other than a retired executive … from Boeing. We all know how that’s going. Also, a retired executive from Macys - another shrinking business struggling to adapt their business model. Aside from being heavy on retired execs,...

    The Board is asleep at the wheel, but honestly it’s not a particularly distinguished bunch even if they were paying attention. Several retired executives - 5 - including the current AA Board chair, who appears to be none other than a retired executive … from Boeing. We all know how that’s going. Also, a retired executive from Macys - another shrinking business struggling to adapt their business model. Aside from being heavy on retired execs, it also has a concentration of finance / investing types. Can’t see a single person there who probably asks in a board meeting about the customer experience, how they distinguish themselves in a crowded field, and where they make some bold bets on the future. I’m sure these are all very nice people, but visionaries pushing management to get better they clearly are not.

  5. BayAreaTravlr New Member

    The Board is asleep at the wheel, but honestly it’s not a particularly distinguished bunch even if they were paying attention. Several retired executives - 5 - including the current AA Board chair, who appears to be none other than a retired executive … from Boeing. We all know how that’s going. Also, a retired executive from Macys - another shrinking business struggling to adapt their business model. Aside from being heavy on retired execs,...

    The Board is asleep at the wheel, but honestly it’s not a particularly distinguished bunch even if they were paying attention. Several retired executives - 5 - including the current AA Board chair, who appears to be none other than a retired executive … from Boeing. We all know how that’s going. Also, a retired executive from Macys - another shrinking business struggling to adapt their business model. Aside from being heavy on retired execs, it also has a concentration of finance / investing types. Can’t see a single person there who probably asks in a board meeting about the customer experience, how they distinguish themselves in a crowded field, and where they make some bold bets on the future. I’m sure these are all very nice people, but visionaries pushing management to get better they clearly are not.

  6. AA Loyalist Guest

    AA has so much wasted potential. Its joint venture hubs happen to be some of the largest O&D destinations for their respective regions (HND, LHR, SYD), so it's not like they have to pass their connections off to 2nd rate intl connecting hubs nobody really wants to go to a la Delta at ICN and AMS. They have a nice young fleet of 787s and incoming XLRs with a business product that should leapfrog Delta...

    AA has so much wasted potential. Its joint venture hubs happen to be some of the largest O&D destinations for their respective regions (HND, LHR, SYD), so it's not like they have to pass their connections off to 2nd rate intl connecting hubs nobody really wants to go to a la Delta at ICN and AMS. They have a nice young fleet of 787s and incoming XLRs with a business product that should leapfrog Delta and United. They still have the best historical brand identity (despite their management's best attempts to destroy it) and a great FF program. Their partners are also the best of the bunch (I'd much prefer JAL & Cathay to KE and China Eastern, same with BA over KLM & AF). They also should be the top carrier at JFK, but will do things like not serve SEA directly, or not serve ZRH, BRU, LIS. If they can get their act together with the XLRs, they really could attract a bunch of customers from DL at JFK that don't want to ride in ancient 767s. They are also lucky that their JV hubs from LAX are the top 3 destinations people want to fly to from LAX. We get it that they love sending people through the dump that is CLT, but they really could be the leading carrier at JFK, LAX, and even ORD if they actually tried.

    1. ImmortalSynn Guest

      "so it's not like they have to pass their connections off to 2nd rate intl connecting hubs nobody really wants to go to a la Delta at ICN and AMS."

      No offense, but you don't really seem to grasp the whole point of "connecting hub," if you think (via this statement) that that's some kind of detriment.

    2. yoloswag420 Guest

      You make some good points, but also miss a few key factors.

      AA’s overreliance on LHR actually hurts it for its overall Europe fares because it’s not diversified enough.

      The Qantas situation is interesting. In theory, AA would be able to capitalize on it more since Qantas is very dominant in this market over ANZ, yet somehow UA was actually able to overtake Qantas at one point in terms of South Pacific capacity. You would...

      You make some good points, but also miss a few key factors.

      AA’s overreliance on LHR actually hurts it for its overall Europe fares because it’s not diversified enough.

      The Qantas situation is interesting. In theory, AA would be able to capitalize on it more since Qantas is very dominant in this market over ANZ, yet somehow UA was actually able to overtake Qantas at one point in terms of South Pacific capacity. You would think AA should be able to service at least MEL from a single hub, yet it doesn’t.

      JAL is strong in Japan, but still plays second fiddle to ANA, which has a much larger presence overall both domestically and internationally. You can see an example of this at ORD, where AA’s weaker hub presence limits JAL to only a single frequency compared to ANA’s double up.

      In general, AA has failed to keep up its own metal and capacity to match its JV partners. The point of sale is always stronger for foreign carriers, but AA doesn’t seem willing to invest in growing it. It’s not even top 10 in TPAC ASMs, behind even PAL. Even for TATL, there’s a wide margin between it and DL/UA, which are nearly tied.

      AA has been granted many great opportunities that it doesn’t use.

    3. AA Loyalist Guest

      My point was that AA's main JV hubs also happen to be the largest draws themselves in their respective regions, which they should be taking advantage of but don't. This would be a particular advantage in places like JFK, LAX, and ORD. Delta still needs to fly from all/most of its hubs to both ICN and HND because HND is the largest actual destination people want to fly to in E Asia. Then they just...

      My point was that AA's main JV hubs also happen to be the largest draws themselves in their respective regions, which they should be taking advantage of but don't. This would be a particular advantage in places like JFK, LAX, and ORD. Delta still needs to fly from all/most of its hubs to both ICN and HND because HND is the largest actual destination people want to fly to in E Asia. Then they just flow connections via ICN, whereas AA only needs to fly to ICN for example from 1-2 hubs max because ICN isn't as big of a draw on its own and then AA can just maximize JV flights to Tokyo. This should make them the most desirable US airline from places like JFK, LAX, and ORD, but they're obviously not.

      At JFK, they have almost completely lost to Delta despite having a JV partner at the other end of the biggest intl route from JFK, which should mean they can dedicate their efforts to flying to other business and leisure destinations the NYC market wants to go to. They claim that they want to focus on O&D only yet still waste slots with regional feed from W Penn and Ohio instead competing with 30 year old 767s to secondary and tertiary Europe.

    4. yoloswag420 Guest

      AA is just in a pinch.

      It has far less wide-bodies than DL/UA, and it's more profitable to run fortress hubs at MIA, PHL, DFW, and CLT with the capacity that they have currently.

      It competes in three high contested markets in NYC, LAX, and ORD, all of which it's increasingly failing at. Growing and clawing back space in those markets means taking away from their money printing machines down South.

  7. Pat Guest

    It's crazy how American, Delta, and United are so similar in revenue (billions USD):
    1st Half 2024 - AA: 24.7 Delta: 25 United: 25
    2nd Half 2024 - AA: 29.5 Delta: 36.6 United: 32.1
    Total 2024 - AA: 54.2 Delta: 61.6 United: 571.1

    They're also similar in passenger miles. With their income and scale being the same, it suggests that AA isn't operating as efficiently as the others. This is odd because...

    It's crazy how American, Delta, and United are so similar in revenue (billions USD):
    1st Half 2024 - AA: 24.7 Delta: 25 United: 25
    2nd Half 2024 - AA: 29.5 Delta: 36.6 United: 32.1
    Total 2024 - AA: 54.2 Delta: 61.6 United: 571.1

    They're also similar in passenger miles. With their income and scale being the same, it suggests that AA isn't operating as efficiently as the others. This is odd because AA is notorious for prioritizing efficiency. Maybe their inefficiency resides in large scale, systemic decisions instead of everyday, ground-level decisions.

    1. Tim Dunn Diamond

      Delta flies less passenger miles than UA or AA.

      DL generates even passenger revenue far more efficient than AA while UA is more efficient in revenue generation than AA. DL gets an even larger than either AA or UA in credit card revenue

    2. Julie Guest

      It’s called monopoly pricing. There’s nothing efficient about delta’s revenue generation

    3. yoloswag420 Guest

      Delta really doesn’t have monopoly pricing outside of ATL.

      DTW/MSP/SLC are second and third tier cities that command far less O&D, easily 40% of their domestic traffic is connecting at each of those hubs. It’s factual that Delta just simply leverages those hubs for lower costs and operates with more efficient economics.

    4. Tim Dunn Diamond

      DL doesn't even monopoly pricing at ATL. DOT data shows that DL's average fares are not significantly higher than other airlines get at their hubs.

      70% of ATL traffic is connections anyway.

      DL's hubs are the lowest cost on average to operate of the big 3. WN has lower cost hubs but they don't get the revenue that any of the big 3 get.

      DL's system fuel efficiency is 6% better than AA...

      DL doesn't even monopoly pricing at ATL. DOT data shows that DL's average fares are not significantly higher than other airlines get at their hubs.

      70% of ATL traffic is connections anyway.

      DL's hubs are the lowest cost on average to operate of the big 3. WN has lower cost hubs but they don't get the revenue that any of the big 3 get.

      DL's system fuel efficiency is 6% better than AA and UA.

      DL simply has the best combination of revenue generation, system labor and fuel efficiency, and low cost hubs.

  8. Jeremy Guest

    AA continues to delay investment in planes and return to competitive markets until it pays down its debt. Not sure I agree with the strategy, but until the debt gets in order, AA can't match DL and UA's financials. On the bright side, the debt is much more under control: Q2 2024 leverage ratio, '23-'24 noncurrent liabilities, '23-'24 interest expense:

    - AA: 6.1x (~$46.2B -> ~$41.8B); ~$2.1B -> ~$1.9B
    - DL: 2.2x (~$36.1B ->...

    AA continues to delay investment in planes and return to competitive markets until it pays down its debt. Not sure I agree with the strategy, but until the debt gets in order, AA can't match DL and UA's financials. On the bright side, the debt is much more under control: Q2 2024 leverage ratio, '23-'24 noncurrent liabilities, '23-'24 interest expense:

    - AA: 6.1x (~$46.2B -> ~$41.8B); ~$2.1B -> ~$1.9B
    - DL: 2.2x (~$36.1B -> ~$33.4B); ~$0.8B -> ~$0.7B
    - UA: 2.1x (~$39.6B -> ~$38.1B); ~$1.9B -> ~$1.6B

    The interest expenses explains ~$300M in the net income gap vs UA and ~$1.2B vs Delta. If you look at the headline financials for FY24:

    - AA: $50.9B passenger rev.; 16.93 PRASM (18.51 TRASM) vs 17.61 CASM
    - DL: $50.9B passenger rev.; 17.65 PRASM (19.76 TRASM) vs 19.30 CASM
    - UA: $51.8B passenger rev.; 16.66 PRASM (18.34 TRASM) vs 16.70 CASM

    The results are far more competitive. All 3 need the loyalty program revenue as they marginally lose $ purely flying. We'll see what happens in 2-3 years once AA's debt is back in line with its competitors.

    UA will have an increase in CASM soon w/ the labor negotiations but will get an increase in TRASM w/ the Chase deal which may cancel out (tbd). DL has historically been the best managed financially, but let's see if they can find low hanging fruit to lower costs / increase rev. b/c UA is fast catching up.

    1. Tim Dunn Diamond

      AA's mainline fleet is fairly young but their percentage of new generation powered aircraft isn't much different than DL or UA's.

      AA and DL have a lot of A321CEOs which are efficient from a labor and fuel standpoint.

      AA's fleet fuel efficiency is lower than DL's because of the larger percentage of regional jets including large regional jets. There is no such thing as a new generation powered regional jets in the US carrier fleet.

    2. Wes Guest

      I don't know, American Airlines has noticeably younger planes than Delta. Have you ever done a flight on one of Delta's older planes to South America? They're very dated.

  9. DesertGhost Guest

    “It is not the critic who counts: not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the...

    “It is not the critic who counts: not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat.” — Theodore Roosevelt

    1. Taylor Guest

      This is unnecessarily dramatic given the context. American is not some striving David up against Goliaths — they're a rudderless company largely devoid of meaningful strategy (except for Vasu's ill-fated NDC pursuit which continues to pay negative dividends quarters after he was booted). Both UA/DL are knowing victory, AA's choice to only know defeat is a completely voluntary one.

  10. dx Guest

    What a joke AA has become unless you either want or need to fly to the IAG hubs like LHR or through AA's hubs on a regular basis.

    1. Lee Guest

      AA's network planning is headed by Brian Znotins. The evolution of AA's network (routes and schedule) over the past few years has undermined my relationship as a customer. Where I had been a CK for years, I now fly one route with them and it's solely paid with points. Nothing more.

    2. Bob Guest

      Znotins was previously with UA and got bounced when Kirby brought in Patrick Quayle and Ankit Gupta...quite the upgrade for UA.

    3. Nose Guest

      Don’t forget WestJet either, easy to as he didn’t last long there. His glory days were at CO premerger.

  11. FFME Guest

    Look at AA's capital structure. They are levered 6x vs. United at 2.5x and Delta around 2.5x.

    Any extra cash AA generates goes straight into paying down their debt, they are paying $2B a year in interest expense at current levels, $1.5B in net interest since they are getting some bank account income as well. That is nearly 60% of their operating income going to interest payments!! Anything left over is trying to pay...

    Look at AA's capital structure. They are levered 6x vs. United at 2.5x and Delta around 2.5x.

    Any extra cash AA generates goes straight into paying down their debt, they are paying $2B a year in interest expense at current levels, $1.5B in net interest since they are getting some bank account income as well. That is nearly 60% of their operating income going to interest payments!! Anything left over is trying to pay down principal early. Almsot any extra cash immediately sent to debt investors!!!

    Compare to United's net interest around 20% of their operating income.

    It's cliche to say but AA's capital structure is strangling them slowly and not giving them the capital to invest more back into the business.

  12. George Romey Guest

    It's a combination of reasons some of which are difficult to fix or out of the airline's control. Fixing some of the airline's issues will cost money that at least for the short term would depress financial results even more.

  13. Tim Dunn Diamond

    for those that want to think that Scott Kirby was "liberated from AA" so he could do great things at UA, many of the strategies that AA stumbles over today are ones over which Kirby was directly responsible for at AA.

    He is smart enough to have learned from his mistakes at AA, HP and US but to think that he isn't responsible for parts of what are problems for AA is patently false.

    1. Jack Guest

      And, it will take years to recover from the initiatives of the wunderkind Vasu Raja.

    2. MaxPower Diamond

      which mistakes specifically, Tim?
      Scott Kirby isn't god but you clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

    3. Tim Dunn Diamond

      he was directly responsible for American’s network and many of its fleet strategies, including its product

    4. Mark Guest

      Kirby left AA nine years ago. UA was in a similar condition, financially, to AA back then.

      Why has Kirby elevated UA so much when the AA executives haven’t done the same to AA? How long does the AA team need to recover from Kirby’s “terrible mistakes”?

      That’s like saying Bob Crandall is responsible for AA’s current situation.

  14. D3Kingg Guest

    Well we all know how Ben’s first class flight from LHR-MIA went even though it was last minute.

    Despite the Boeing delays you’d have to deliberately be deferring delivery of aircraft at this point. Zero progress toward new product as well.

    1. D3Kingg Guest

      2/ Sounds like American reached out to Trump already for assistance. Trump mentioned in Davos one of the largest airlines in the world reached out to him about being ripped off in the EU and with online reservation channels.

  15. CraigH Guest

    Makes you wonder what's going on indeed. I haven't flown them in several years, as whenever I'm looking for business class fares to DFW from the UK, they're wicked pricey and I always opt for another carrier. I'd be happy to fly them -- particularly even more so once their new business class cabin becomes available on their London route to try out; however, for me, things haven't ever aligned for me to fly them...

    Makes you wonder what's going on indeed. I haven't flown them in several years, as whenever I'm looking for business class fares to DFW from the UK, they're wicked pricey and I always opt for another carrier. I'd be happy to fly them -- particularly even more so once their new business class cabin becomes available on their London route to try out; however, for me, things haven't ever aligned for me to fly them in recent years, as other airlines have been priced more competitively when I'm looking for business class flights.

  16. WangChen New Member

    As long as they're a decently competent airline and do not change their AAdvantage program and redemption much, I'm not too worried. Their award chart is what keeps me loyal at the end of the day.

    1. Tim Dunn Diamond

      no company gives away more than they have to. AA is using its loyalty program to buy business travel which it cannot get via paid fares.

      DL has the "stingiest" loyalty program because it gets the business revenue that AA and UA dream about.

    2. WangChen New Member

      While I do not disagree with you, it helps folks like me who are restricted to an AA hub, but who also want simple and affordable premium class travel with a consistent amount of points needed for a partner redemption. This is from me who came from a former DL hub.

    3. Bob Guest

      I agree entirely. I love AA. Their loyalty program works for me because I can supplement my travel with spend to achieve Executive Platinum. I also have the credit card that gives me and my family club access. They also fly the transcon routes I need, including being the only lie flat transcon from SNA (my home airport) to NYC, and they have plenty of LAX to NYC and BOS transcons which are the routes...

      I agree entirely. I love AA. Their loyalty program works for me because I can supplement my travel with spend to achieve Executive Platinum. I also have the credit card that gives me and my family club access. They also fly the transcon routes I need, including being the only lie flat transcon from SNA (my home airport) to NYC, and they have plenty of LAX to NYC and BOS transcons which are the routes I fly. Just as a contrast, UA flies SNA to EWR, but those aren't lie flats, and they don't even give you club access. AA has lie flat and gives you FLAGSHIP club access. That's a no brainer. Overall it's a very nice experience travelling with American with status and the card, and the fares are reasonable too. AA works for me regardless of all the AA and finances bashing.

  17. ChesterWilson Guest

    It's been sad to see AA become a seasonal 49 state domestic airline at ORD (Sorry I'm not transiting DFW). They have waived the white flag at ORD and have ceded business to United.

  18. DAN G. Guest

    I'm OWE from CX. So whenever I fly to the US and need domestic sectors, (usually F or J as I have luggage), I always look at AA first, One World and all. But the website restricts "country of origin" credit cards from most of Southeast Asia. (NO Thailand, Philippines, Vietnam; only Singapore is listed.) They used to have a General Sales Agent two years ago, but even they are gone now. Of course not...

    I'm OWE from CX. So whenever I fly to the US and need domestic sectors, (usually F or J as I have luggage), I always look at AA first, One World and all. But the website restricts "country of origin" credit cards from most of Southeast Asia. (NO Thailand, Philippines, Vietnam; only Singapore is listed.) They used to have a General Sales Agent two years ago, but even they are gone now. Of course not a problem purchasing any type of tickets on DL or UA! I know the overseas market is small by comparison, but this is an odd omission for an airline not doing well -- low-hanging fruit, no? No surprise then that AA is an under performer.

    1. -- Guest

      If their network works for you, take a look at Alaska, which is also in oneworld. Generally a nicer airline to fly with than American :-P

  19. Super Diamond

    The irony and hubris of them sacking Vasa without realizing he was a symptom of the incompetence at the top, not a cause. Fingers crossed if they ever do wake up and clear out the ELT, they leave AAdvantage mostly alone. It's still the only reason for me to do business with AA.

  20. Tim Dunn Diamond

    AA is the underperformer in the industry and it is what is fueling a big part of DL and UA's profits.
    AA does not provide a high quality product either in terms of reliability or airport experience or network.
    AA made its strategy to compete for connecting domestic passengers and yet that is a market that can easily be replicated and DL and UA are competing well for those passengers, esp. DL which...

    AA is the underperformer in the industry and it is what is fueling a big part of DL and UA's profits.
    AA does not provide a high quality product either in terms of reliability or airport experience or network.
    AA made its strategy to compete for connecting domestic passengers and yet that is a market that can easily be replicated and DL and UA are competing well for those passengers, esp. DL which already has a far stronger domestic network than UA.
    AA cannot compete in the largest local markets which is why DL focused so much attention during covid in building NYC and LAX and UA is doing it at ORD. AA tried to build AUS which was a failure and is now pushing way too many passengers through CLT than the airport can handle and that is the best competitor for ATL - but a pretty poor one.

    AA's unions know the company will underperform so asked for and got big increases which is a big reason for the drag on AA's costs and profits.

    Unlike WN, there is no quick turnaround which is why hedge funds don't want to take on AA.

    IF WN can turn itself around, which I think they will in 2025, AA will be the big drag of the big 4.

    1. MaxPower Diamond

      "AA does not provide a high quality product either in terms of reliability or airport experience or network."
      Your dreams are one thing. Facts are another

      1. wifi on every mainline plane? AA? yes. Delta? no.
      2. Wifi that works globally? AA? Yes. Delta? no.
      3. All aisle access on all widebodies? AA? Yes. Delta? no.
      4. Business class lounges? AA? for years now. Delta? Catching up to AA
      5....

      "AA does not provide a high quality product either in terms of reliability or airport experience or network."
      Your dreams are one thing. Facts are another

      1. wifi on every mainline plane? AA? yes. Delta? no.
      2. Wifi that works globally? AA? Yes. Delta? no.
      3. All aisle access on all widebodies? AA? Yes. Delta? no.
      4. Business class lounges? AA? for years now. Delta? Catching up to AA
      5. Network? more destinations in the US and globally than DL and that's excluding Alaska's network which AA customers can use with ease and have their loyalty and status rewarded.

      But keep trying.

      There are MANY things AA does poorly and does well. But, the Delta court jester trying to talk about areas where Delta is woefully behind AA? give me a break.

    2. Morgan Guest

      @Maxpower, and AA could be significantly worse and yet the Oneworld factor would still make it my defacto airline. being able to fly Cathay, Qantas, Qatar, Finnair, Japan airlines... the quality of lounges, the crystal clear benefits, free luggage... Skyteam seems to add insult to the injury of the Delta loyalty program.

    3. BeeDazzle Member

      @MaxPower - Fully agree, and will add that the high quality oneworld partners and the oneworld lounge access policy (including FL for AA) is what keeps me loyal to AA. Delta doesn't have a lot of high-quality partners beyond AF/KL, and the SkyTeam lounge access policy is abysmal compared to oneworld's.

    4. Tim Dunn Diamond

      no, Max, you clearly pick out the outliers of each category and ignore the reality of the majority including that AA has no intention of matching DL's product offering, unlike DL now or UA intends to be.

      DL has FREE high speed WiFi on 650 narrowbodies now; it is installed on all widebodies except the A350s. DL will turn it on for all of its mainline fleet this year. AA and UA have ZERO aircraft...

      no, Max, you clearly pick out the outliers of each category and ignore the reality of the majority including that AA has no intention of matching DL's product offering, unlike DL now or UA intends to be.

      DL has FREE high speed WiFi on 650 narrowbodies now; it is installed on all widebodies except the A350s. DL will turn it on for all of its mainline fleet this year. AA and UA have ZERO aircraft with free high speed WIFI today.

      DL's ex-Latam 350s are in mods; most are not even flying right now.

      Delta One lounges will be in at least 4 airports by the end of the year. SkyClubs have always been a higher quality lounge than AA or UA's standard lounges Tell me how many standard AA and UA lounges have showers as SC's have.

      a few dozen additional airports at most doesn't change the calculus.

      It is you that can't stand to admit that AA has an unworkable business plan but you keep trying to find the speck in someone else's eye because the log is too much to remove from your own

    5. Shower at the AAClub Guest

      Many regular Admirals Clubs have showers (ORD, JFK, LGA, MIA, DFW, LAX, EZE). Probably others I’m missing.

    6. MaxPower Diamond

      thanks for reinforcing that all my points are still valid and accurate.

      "It is you that can't stand to admit that AA has an unworkable business plan but you keep trying to find the speck in someone else's eye because the log is too much to remove from your own"

      lol. the Tim Dunn go-to... can't respond to the facts so accuse them of "not being able to admit" something that i've already stated......

      thanks for reinforcing that all my points are still valid and accurate.

      "It is you that can't stand to admit that AA has an unworkable business plan but you keep trying to find the speck in someone else's eye because the log is too much to remove from your own"

      lol. the Tim Dunn go-to... can't respond to the facts so accuse them of "not being able to admit" something that i've already stated... that AA does many things poorly.

      You just have nothing to say in reply since DL purposefully flies planes around with no wifi, no all aisle access, is ten years late to the lounge game and significantly fewer network destinations than AA and especially against oneworld in the US and globally.

      Keep dreaming. It's all you have. AA does plenty of things wrong. You just don't seem to know why delta is profitable to the extent they are (hint hint. Delta explicitly say its a credit card deal and monopoly hubs as much as you seem to hate what Delta themselves say).

      "Delta One lounges will be in at least 4 airports by the end of the year. SkyClubs have always been a higher quality lounge than AA or UA's standard lounges Tell me how many standard AA and UA lounges have showers as SC's have."

      lol. What? Your answer to Delta's decades-late entry to the business class lounge game is to ask me how many Admirals clubs have showers? lol. Plenty do and I'm certainly not going to go count for you with such an incredibly lame counter. Any time I've wanted to shower at an AC, a shower has been there. You're probably the only one who cares though you sure are whistling a new tune than before when you said no one cares about showers at the new Delta One lounges

    7. John Guest

      I’m no Delta apologist, but I’m not sure I agree with all the points above.

      1&2 — Delta offers free WiFi on a majority of its domestic fleet. Not sure the exact percentage, but I’ve had free WiFi on virtually all my domestic Delta flights over the last year (excepting one Delta Connection flight). AA charges for WiFi and as far as I know has no plans to make it free. I think anyone...

      I’m no Delta apologist, but I’m not sure I agree with all the points above.

      1&2 — Delta offers free WiFi on a majority of its domestic fleet. Not sure the exact percentage, but I’ve had free WiFi on virtually all my domestic Delta flights over the last year (excepting one Delta Connection flight). AA charges for WiFi and as far as I know has no plans to make it free. I think anyone who isn’t expensing their WiFi would agree that Delta wins in this category.

      3. Delta has all-aisle access on their widebodies with the exception of a handful A350s they inherited from LATAM. And those are in the process of being retrofitted. Very misleading point here. (If anything, maybe AA could learn something from Delta about acquiring widebodies second-hand — would certainly help address their widebody shortage.)

      4. AA has 4 Flagship lounges, plus a joint business lounge with BA at JFK. Delta has 3 Delta One lounges, with a 4th opening this summer in Seattle. Have you been to a Delta One lounge? AA certainly beat Delta to the punch in opening business class lounges, but the quality is not comparable — Delta One lounges blow Flagship lounges out of the water.

      5. AA does have a more expansive domestic network than Delta, but it’s arguably worse in the sense that you generally have to be routed through DFW, CLT or PHX. As an NYC-based flier, I’m astonished at how much AA has retreated from JFK/LGA, LAX and ORD.

      Internationally, AA is definitely stronger in Central and South America. Delta is unquestionably stronger in Europe (AA basically just flies people to London and then adds a smattering of routes to some other cities). Neither carrier is great to Asia or Australia. Delta is better to Africa.

    8. ImmortalSynn Guest

      "Delta is better to Africa."

      If by "better" you mean "there at all," then yes. Despite having hubs in both New York and Miami, American has still not ventured into Africa. Their one (failed) attempt to launch an African route would've been from Philly, and that stopped before it started.

    9. Bob Guest

      AA also has a far more rewarding loyalty program than DL. Everyone knows the phrase "sky pesos" for a reason. My AA miles are worth more and it's easier and cheaper to obtain status. Also AA provides easier lounge access and guesting, and I never worry that I will have to stand in a line, deal with overcrowding, or encounter roped off areas in AA lounges. And in my particular situation, DL doesn't even do...

      AA also has a far more rewarding loyalty program than DL. Everyone knows the phrase "sky pesos" for a reason. My AA miles are worth more and it's easier and cheaper to obtain status. Also AA provides easier lounge access and guesting, and I never worry that I will have to stand in a line, deal with overcrowding, or encounter roped off areas in AA lounges. And in my particular situation, DL doesn't even do transcon NYC out of SNA, my home airport, whereas both AA and UA do. DL's fleet is also inconsistent. On some transcons, the suites are beautiful. On other planes, the business class is ridiculously old with no privacy -- totally pathetic. Finally, DL always has the highest fares. Better loyalty program, better lounge access, better scheduling (for my situation), and a consistent fleet make AA my choice over DL hands down.

    10. Jason Guest

      Correct, AA is an underperformer, but as a passenger, I can……
      Go to FL with long-haul Y, where DL won’t even grant their own diamond members.
      Go to FL without caring about which partner I am taking, where DL blocks AF/KL/KE business passengers from accessing D1 lounge at BOS.
      Go to AC without bother to count how many visits I still have with my Citi AA Executive card.
      Happily choose any...

      Correct, AA is an underperformer, but as a passenger, I can……
      Go to FL with long-haul Y, where DL won’t even grant their own diamond members.
      Go to FL without caring about which partner I am taking, where DL blocks AF/KL/KE business passengers from accessing D1 lounge at BOS.
      Go to AC without bother to count how many visits I still have with my Citi AA Executive card.
      Happily choose any long haul business class without checking the plane as there’s no wacky 763 in AA’s fleet. The worst is Concept D.
      Drink any wine at FL without even checking the price tag - man, is there even a price tag for drinking alcohol in an Int’l lounge?
      Ability to go to a better lounge with my OWE status. In the US, that translates into QF F @ LAX and SoHo @ JFK. International, that’s CX F @ LHR, HKG, BA F @ LHR, JL F @ HND, NRT, FRA, QF F @ SYD, SIN.
      And maybe not the most important issue, you seldom see AA fanboy on this blog while for DL, well……

Featured Comments Most helpful comments ( as chosen by the OMAAT community ).

The comments on this page have not been provided, reviewed, approved or otherwise endorsed by any advertiser, and it is not an advertiser's responsibility to ensure posts and/or questions are answered.

MaxPower Diamond

"AA does not provide a high quality product either in terms of reliability or airport experience or network." Your dreams are one thing. Facts are another 1. wifi on every mainline plane? AA? yes. Delta? no. 2. Wifi that works globally? AA? Yes. Delta? no. 3. All aisle access on all widebodies? AA? Yes. Delta? no. 4. Business class lounges? AA? for years now. Delta? Catching up to AA 5. Network? more destinations in the US and globally than DL and that's excluding Alaska's network which AA customers can use with ease and have their loyalty and status rewarded. But keep trying. There are MANY things AA does poorly and does well. But, the Delta court jester trying to talk about areas where Delta is woefully behind AA? give me a break.

8
Morgan Guest

@Maxpower, and AA could be significantly worse and yet the Oneworld factor would still make it my defacto airline. being able to fly Cathay, Qantas, Qatar, Finnair, Japan airlines... the quality of lounges, the crystal clear benefits, free luggage... Skyteam seems to add insult to the injury of the Delta loyalty program.

4
Bob Guest

AA also has a far more rewarding loyalty program than DL. Everyone knows the phrase "sky pesos" for a reason. My AA miles are worth more and it's easier and cheaper to obtain status. Also AA provides easier lounge access and guesting, and I never worry that I will have to stand in a line, deal with overcrowding, or encounter roped off areas in AA lounges. And in my particular situation, DL doesn't even do transcon NYC out of SNA, my home airport, whereas both AA and UA do. DL's fleet is also inconsistent. On some transcons, the suites are beautiful. On other planes, the business class is ridiculously old with no privacy -- totally pathetic. Finally, DL always has the highest fares. Better loyalty program, better lounge access, better scheduling (for my situation), and a consistent fleet make AA my choice over DL hands down.

3
Meet Ben Schlappig, OMAAT Founder
5,527,136 Miles Traveled

39,914,500 Words Written

42,354 Posts Published