It’s heartbreaking beyond words to see the events unfolding in Ukraine. What a helpless and horrifying situation, and like so many people I’m keeping everyone there in my thoughts. Countries are starting to impose sanctions against Russia, and in some cases this could have major implications for aviation.
In this post:
UK bans Aeroflot flights
The UK Civil Aviation Authority has suspended the foreign carrier permit held by Aeroflot until further notice. This means that Aeroflot will not be permitted to operate flights to or from the United Kingdom.
Banning commercial flights from an airline hardly brings justice for what’s going on, but it’s a small step in the right direction. Perhaps most surprising to me is how slowly other countries are acting. The United States hasn’t banned Aeroflot flights, and for that matter an Aeroflot plane is currently enroute from Moscow to Miami.
Admittedly this is a complicated situation. While sanctions make a lot of sense on the surface, banning flights ultimately punishes the people of Russia, rather than Putin as such. And that’s going to be a challenge going forward, as the rest of the globe decides how to deal with this situation.
Russia bans UK airlines
One of the big challenges for global aviation is that Russia holds a lot of power when it comes to airspace. Russia is the world’s largest country (by far), and just as countries can ban Russian airlines, Russia can also ban other airlines from using its airspace.
Russian airspace is pretty key for many routes around the globe, especially flights from Europe to North Asia, for example. So on the aviation front Russia unfortunately has quite a bit of leverage, because banning airlines from Russian airspace could make a lot of routes extremely challenging.
Unfortunately this is developing exactly as you’d expect, as Russia has now banned airlines from the UK from using its airspace. This includes flights to Russia, as well as flights between two other countries that simply use Russian airspace.
This is major, but then again, perhaps the bigger question is if airlines should use Russian airspace anyway, even if they’re allowed to. Global aviation is about to get a lot more challenging.
Bottom line
The UK has become one of the first countries to ban Aeroflot, following Russia’s invasion of Ukraine. This is only one small part of the sanctions being imposed against Russia. I’m curious to see if other countries follow — I certainly hope they do.
Within hours, Russia responded exactly the way you’d expect, as Russia has now banned airlines from the UK from using its airspace. This is a major inconvenience, but then again, it probably wouldn’t be wise to use Russian airspace right now anyway.
How do you see this situation evolving when it comes to aviation?
Why isn't Sleepy Joe banning flights to the US from Russia and imposing restrictions on all parts related to aviation! He's certainly earning his nickname. This entire mess could have been prevented with more assertive leadership weeks or months ago. Totally unacceptable.
Putin has just demonstrated to the world how weak the US and NATO are at defending their allies. China is watching and salivating at the thought of capturing the ROC once and for all.
...and promptly BA got IT glitches...very timely indeed!..other EU carriers be aware! Last infos..KLM and LH are not flying over russ. airspace. The EU is closing its airspace to russ. aircrafts. Welcome the Cold War..the 60s, 70s, 80s are back!! ..just like that. Flying to East Asia and Southeast Asia via longer routes. I have not tried the Anchorage route yet, I was not born then. Will this be a new Alaska Rush? Or do...
...and promptly BA got IT glitches...very timely indeed!..other EU carriers be aware! Last infos..KLM and LH are not flying over russ. airspace. The EU is closing its airspace to russ. aircrafts. Welcome the Cold War..the 60s, 70s, 80s are back!! ..just like that. Flying to East Asia and Southeast Asia via longer routes. I have not tried the Anchorage route yet, I was not born then. Will this be a new Alaska Rush? Or do the ultra long haul A350, B787, A380 will be handling it well?
Putin needs to be stopped or he won’t stop at Ukraine. The US and Europe need to put a noose around Russia and keep pulling it tighter. While we talk about suspending airline service and overfly rights people in Ukraine are dying. We may be inconvenienced by sanctions but to me that is a small price to pay to stop Russian aggression. Putin must be stopped.
Uk cannot set example since they fought war over falklands and they acting against international law over chagos islands.
I am wondering, do you think as same as now, when your lovely NATO invaded Yugolasvia, Iraq, Syria, Afganistan, Somalia, Yemen (list could go long)??? Typical hypocrites and double Standard. War is 100% wrong and unjustified, when either of your lovely NATO invades or Russia invades.
NATO invaded these countries? Your ignorance is appalling.
When you promote sanctions against Russian airlines, you promote sanctions against Russian people and people who have families in Russia, but not sanctions against Putin. First of all it is unfair. I understand that you realize it, but don't care, from Miami all Russian people seems to be evil. But seconly, and probably more important for you, such sanctions against Russian people leads to the greater support for Putin - if you, West, don't care...
When you promote sanctions against Russian airlines, you promote sanctions against Russian people and people who have families in Russia, but not sanctions against Putin. First of all it is unfair. I understand that you realize it, but don't care, from Miami all Russian people seems to be evil. But seconly, and probably more important for you, such sanctions against Russian people leads to the greater support for Putin - if you, West, don't care and feel I'm evil only because I was born in Russia, imagine how I feel. I feel angry and it only increase the support for war. And when you support sanctions against Russian people l, but not Putin (who obviously do not use regular flights) you support more wars.
No one cares about you boo hoo. If Communist Russian people care they will rise up against the dictator
Sanctions and bans have rarely worked in the past except to alienate the nations they are inflicted upon even more. The people who suffer are the commoners. With respect to air travel, the opponents to Russia have a lot more to lose since the Russian airspace is vital.
I am aghast at what is happening in Ukraine, but the western nations and NATO are rather hypocritical as they have invaded countries and toppled governments...
Sanctions and bans have rarely worked in the past except to alienate the nations they are inflicted upon even more. The people who suffer are the commoners. With respect to air travel, the opponents to Russia have a lot more to lose since the Russian airspace is vital.
I am aghast at what is happening in Ukraine, but the western nations and NATO are rather hypocritical as they have invaded countries and toppled governments that they considered threatening as well (Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya just to name a few from very recent history). Basically the world is full of fascists; some who try to act righteous and some so done care how others view them. On the basis of total number of casualties, the U.S. should be considered a organisation of terror and should be tried in the international criminal court. However, they are overlooked because of their political popularity. Russia is just the other face of the same coin.
So because it's alleged that western nations have invaded countries, that makes it OK for Russia to do so? Who in their right mind thinks Ukraine is a threat?
No, it does not make it ok. But the double standard and hypocrisy of most western nations, front runner USA, is sickening . Do they really care about the lives of people, or does it in the end always comes down to maintain their interests, power and profit.
@RT Flyer - You prove my point perfectly. Ukraine’s interests in NATO is as much a threat to the Russians as the North Koreans, Cuba, or Iraq to the U.S. and the other western nations. I am not condoning war but merely pointing out the hypocrisy and outrage in the western media since it’s Russia. The fact is that the NATO countries are no longer at the centre of control of global geopolitics, and this...
@RT Flyer - You prove my point perfectly. Ukraine’s interests in NATO is as much a threat to the Russians as the North Koreans, Cuba, or Iraq to the U.S. and the other western nations. I am not condoning war but merely pointing out the hypocrisy and outrage in the western media since it’s Russia. The fact is that the NATO countries are no longer at the centre of control of global geopolitics, and this is threatening to them. No one actually cares about the Ukrainian people.
I don't know how much this will ever be an issue, but Russian airlines' aircraft registered in Russia have to be Russian built (or something like that) - that's why S7's jets are registered in Bermuda, which is a British Overseas Territory. Wonder if that'll ever be a consideration.
Seems the British cut off their nose to spite their face
Intelligent comment . I guess you haven't been paying attention for the last few days.
Is the TPAC airspace near Kamchatska Peninsula - a Russian airspace? If so, how are the ultra-long haul TPAC flights going to fly nonstop?
On the surface this sounds like it would have major implications for BA, although I looked it up and their China, Hong Kong, and Tokyo flights are suspended; they don't serve Seoul, Taipei, or Manila; and Bangkok and Singapore are sufficiently far south that avoiding Russian airspace isn't a big deal. Probably not as harmful (in the immediate future at least) as you might think for BA.
punishes the people of Russia, ... sorry, but the people of Russia have been enablers for Soviet/Russian behavior for 70 years. Putin has been in power for 22 years. The revolution and fighting needs to be in Russia by Russians, not in Ukraine. All countries should ban Aeroflot and all Russians from entry, to continue to put the squeeze on Putin. All shipping must cease, along with imports/exports, oil and gas. No food either. Putin...
punishes the people of Russia, ... sorry, but the people of Russia have been enablers for Soviet/Russian behavior for 70 years. Putin has been in power for 22 years. The revolution and fighting needs to be in Russia by Russians, not in Ukraine. All countries should ban Aeroflot and all Russians from entry, to continue to put the squeeze on Putin. All shipping must cease, along with imports/exports, oil and gas. No food either. Putin sees weakness and has taken advantage of it... Did we not learn from history ??
Is everyone in US, UK, EU are personally responsible for bombing and invasion of Iraq, Libya, Serbia and many other countries? Have you had a chance to stop that wars? Do you think you personally should be banned from all international flights simply because you was born in the US, UK or EU?
Support sanctions against Putin, not against ordinary Russian people!
Well said Ivan.
Russia invaded Ukraine because United States pushed Ukraine to join NATO. The European Union felt really reluctant to let Ukraine join because that means there will not be any buffer zone between Europe and Russia. They will instantly become geopolitical enemies. US wants European Union to be threatened by Russia to slow down the growth of EU (the closest ally but both competitor of USA), whereas Russia and European Union wanted to collaborate on their...
Russia invaded Ukraine because United States pushed Ukraine to join NATO. The European Union felt really reluctant to let Ukraine join because that means there will not be any buffer zone between Europe and Russia. They will instantly become geopolitical enemies. US wants European Union to be threatened by Russia to slow down the growth of EU (the closest ally but both competitor of USA), whereas Russia and European Union wanted to collaborate on their economic growth.
After all, it is United States who set up this war. If anyone to blame, the Biden administration is the one. Putin and Russia are forced to invade. Otherwise, they will be sharing direct boundary with the West, something no one wants to see.
Yes there will, Finland, Moldova, Belarus. And re Finland, if you mean no non-EU border, Estonia and Latvia are already NATO members.
So yes, while the Ukraine/NATO thing is a factor, it's not the only drama in play, and wouldn't instantly remove a non-EU buffer between EU/Russia.
Nice try Natasha
Good for the UK. But the only real non-nuclear weapon we have in the US is our domestic energy production. Turn it on big time, and help out the Europeans. Unfortunately that is barely discussed because of the "Think of the Planet!" crowd. The Planet will be in lousy shape if this escalates any further. The Russians and the Chinese don't give a crap about The Planet anyway.
AA293 (DEL-JFK) did a stopover in Bangor on Feb 24 because it was flying over Europe. This would be the likely route for now because of a problem with Western Russia aerospace.
Direct flights from US to SIN and HKG are also avoiding Russian aerospace.
@Alex77W. The AA DEL - JFK does not have permission to overfly Russian airpsace. This IS their route for the time being, and has nothing to do with Ukraine. They applied the week before service started (Americans are really quite arrogant and don't care)...even though it usually takes a few months for Russia to grant overfly permission, per route and airline, not per airline/country.
So AA has been overflying Europe and the UK since...
@Alex77W. The AA DEL - JFK does not have permission to overfly Russian airpsace. This IS their route for the time being, and has nothing to do with Ukraine. They applied the week before service started (Americans are really quite arrogant and don't care)...even though it usually takes a few months for Russia to grant overfly permission, per route and airline, not per airline/country.
So AA has been overflying Europe and the UK since the flight started. Sometimes they can make it nonstop, but during the extreme winter jetstreams over the Atlantic, they have to schedule a stop in Bangor Maine.
I can ban aeroflot as well...but it is kind of meaningless as I have never fly with it before lol.
I hope all those none Russians with exception of Chinese get out of Russia asap. Probably should have left few days ago if you have a peon brain. It’s not going to be pretty for awhile. Don’t be crying to your government if you can’t get home or worse yet become a hostage.
When Russia stole Crimea and got a light slap on their wrist, who knew Russia would then decide to invade the...
I hope all those none Russians with exception of Chinese get out of Russia asap. Probably should have left few days ago if you have a peon brain. It’s not going to be pretty for awhile. Don’t be crying to your government if you can’t get home or worse yet become a hostage.
When Russia stole Crimea and got a light slap on their wrist, who knew Russia would then decide to invade the whole country few years later? When crime is committed and strong punishment isn’t dished, then why wouldn’t criminal commit crime again at bigger scale? Eye for an eye is the only way to stop Putin or better yet an eye for two eyes to show him West means business.
Interesting development that is being considered according to a source on BBC News that Skyteam are considering removing Aeroflot from the programme.
It looks like Delta has already suspended its ties with Aeroflot.
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/02/25/delta-air-lines-cuts-ties-with-aeroflot-after-russia-attacks-ukraine.html
Interesting that United for their San Francisco and Chicago to Delhi, India flights overflew Russian airspace today but the one from Newark to both Delhi and Mumbai actively avoided Russia!
Makes sense when you map it out:
The great circle routing for EWR-BOM passes right over the Ukrainian/Russian border, so that's something they'd obviously want to avoid. EWR-DEL doesn't, but it's likely the same pilot base would've been warned thereabout.
SFO/ORD-DEL don't go anywhere remotely near the Ukraine or the conflict zone, so as long as they have authority to overfly Russia, may as well use it.
Even Moldova is condemning the Russian atrocities at this point and when Russia loses Moldovan hearts and minds, they're not having much luck with the propaganda campaign.
I suspect in the next few days, even in the absence of government bans, a lot of airlines risk management and insurance departments will force a pull out of Russian and Ukrainian airspace because they do not want a repeat of MH 17.
Even Moldova? It is one of the most anti-Russian states out there with a puppet Western government in place.
If sanctions impact the people of Russia, it's just an incentive for them to start dealing with their deranged dictator in charge. We've lived with closed Russian airspace during the Cold War, and we can live with it again—if nothing else, we have planes with much better range today.
That didn't work in WW2 when terror bombing was supposed to make the Germans rise up and take out Hitler; instead it galvanised support for the war.
Ukraine joining EU makes sense. But why is NATO trying to expand to Ukraine ? What is even the purpose of NATO today ? The world wars and cold war are long over but NATO is stuck in the past trying to justify its existence to keep themselves payrolled.
If Ukraine were a member of NATO, there likely wouldn't be an invasion happening on their territory right now. Many would argue that is the purpose of NATO.
Catch-22, Chicken or Egg.. Maybe the invasion is happening because NATO wants to deploy its weapons in Ukraine close to Russian Border. During the Cuban Missile Crisis; US came close to invading Cuba when Russians attempted to so something similar.
Good point, VJ! Finland borders on Russia and is neutral. Russia is not threatening Finland as long as Finland is not threatening Russia. If Americans will try to use the current situation to drag Finland into NATO, the consequences may be similar to what is going on in the Ukraine right now. The people of Finland have been wise and resistant to Western propaganda so far much to America's displeasure.
Finland is neutral because Santa Claus knows whos naughty or nice.
@Jesse, I hope Putin and his cronies are paying you well. They’re getting their money’s worth!
Nobody's paying me anything. I just have a brain and can actually see through the BS.
by brain you mean whatever the fancybear folks in St. Petersburg programmed into it, right?
Smart move. Russian nationals should be barred entry from every country on the planet, even if most have nothing to do with it. Russia should be treated like a pariah.
Yep. Punish the average Russian who has no say-so in what is happening. That makes sense.
What a terrible comment. Also lets make sure that citizens of other countries cant get out of Russia and return home.
Absolutely true.. all sanctions must be pursued... no trade, no food, no economy, no cooperation, turn them off from the web and shut them down... The Russian economy was a shambles before all of this, no exports of anything relevant... The world needs to put the squeeze until Putin is gone.
Hasn't worked against N.Korea; why would it work with Russia? ...who like N.Korea, will find SOME international support, if only for the fact that no one wants millions of defectors therefrom.
How has it not worked in N Korea?
They are isolated and not part of the international community. Just reliance on Communist China and Russia
Russia as a country yes, Russian citizens as a whole no, that's a ridiculous suggestion.
Hurrah for the UK! Let's see all other nations do the same. Granted it is nothing more than a slap on the hand, but it is a start. We need to cut off all of the business we can going to the Evil Empire.
I think you are a bit naive, Nasdaq, dow , sp500 markets going Up sharply yesterday is a disgusting statement saying: Ucrania? Is that the name of last Kardashian daughter? Its terrible how this nation has been left in the mud....
The markets went up because most of the war was already priced in and investors are realizing that Russia and Ukraine are 3% of global gdp. The scenes we saw on tv are terrible but it did not stop you from buying something on amazon or going to dinner last night. This will drive up gas prices in the US but thats it, your life is not affected and markets starting to realize as bad is it is its not going to cause a global recession.
The only business that matters to Russia is energy and wars are great for energy prices. Sanctions and airline bans will accomplish nothing as long as Russia has a buyer for their oil they will survive and thrive. Unfortunately they have a 2000 mile border with someone who will buy every last drop of oil and gas they produce.
WOW… This is big for flying because if Russia bans use of Russian airspace, then I don’t think many US/Canada east coast to Asia (beyond Japan/South Korea) nonstops can operate anymore… Could this mean the below?
1) Use of Anchorage as refueling stop again for these nonstops (back to 1980’s flying)?
2) Delta / United rebuilding their base in Tokyo/Seoul to facilitate flights from east coast to beyond NE Asia?
3) Chinese airlines...
WOW… This is big for flying because if Russia bans use of Russian airspace, then I don’t think many US/Canada east coast to Asia (beyond Japan/South Korea) nonstops can operate anymore… Could this mean the below?
1) Use of Anchorage as refueling stop again for these nonstops (back to 1980’s flying)?
2) Delta / United rebuilding their base in Tokyo/Seoul to facilitate flights from east coast to beyond NE Asia?
3) Chinese airlines can use Russian airspace thereby meaning they can fly say JFK-China nonstop?
4) Perversely, could this help CX survive because they can fly over Russian airspace once Hong Kong and their transit hub opens back up
Crazy…
FWIW, MU (China Eastern) has been the only airline that flies from the east coast of America (both US and Canada) to China for quite some time due to Chinese government's pandemic quota on flight routes. Delta has a flight from DTW but that's pretty much about it.
Thanks for the info, didn’t realize China Eastern is the only one left (for now). I think shutting down Russian airspace in near term is not much of issue for US/Canada east coast to Asia flights, my observations are more for beyond near term once travel opens back up and if the sanctions/bans etc persist. This will materially impact operations for airlines such as Eva, Singapore, China Airlines (Taiwan airline), Vietnam Airlines, and Delta/United/AA/Air Canada....
Thanks for the info, didn’t realize China Eastern is the only one left (for now). I think shutting down Russian airspace in near term is not much of issue for US/Canada east coast to Asia flights, my observations are more for beyond near term once travel opens back up and if the sanctions/bans etc persist. This will materially impact operations for airlines such as Eva, Singapore, China Airlines (Taiwan airline), Vietnam Airlines, and Delta/United/AA/Air Canada. These airlines fly super long haul nonstops (e.g. Polar flights) that only became possible with Russian airspace opening in 1990’s. Somehow just a guess, I think Russia/China will come to some agreement where Chinese airlines (+ Cathay?) will be exempted, thereby giving them a competitive advantage….
If you crash the oil prices , Russia will find making money to be extremly difficult and also Russia sit on 2400t of gold so if you crash that as well, good luck Putin!
Easier said than done, 2 of the 3 biggest oil producers have a big say in preventing oil prices from crashing. And the other producer the USA is so caught up in going green, shuting down pipeline, banning fracking and limiting oil production that its just going to further drive up prices. China will back Russia and russia can sustain this war as long as oil is is decade level highs like it is unfortunately.
Maybe, but what about natural gas? The elephant in the room, Gazprom, which supplies a large % of gas to Europe. Yeah Russia needs to sell it, but Europe need it, that demand isn't going to go away with little alternative (some countries will be more affected than others, admittedly).
Does anyone have a list of which BA routes use Russian airspace?
There is very little impact on BA because they currently operate minimal to no passenger flights to routes that flew over Russia such as Japan, China etc. These were already suspended due to Covid.
Aeroflot should be banned from all democracies. Air China and China Southern should be next.
Tbh I don't see an issue with the sanctions punishing 'the people of Russia' - they also have a part to play in all this and they have to be affected in order for Putin to be affected - that's the sad reality. It's the same with any strike action.
You clearly lack any understanding of Russia to be able to make such an obtuse comment.
Clearly. Thank you for refuting that so convincingly.
Well, as I've lived in Russia for over a decade, I can definitively say that the war is extremely unpopular with the average Russian person. Moreover, do you really think the people have a say-so? If you do, then you haven't been paying attention. Targeting people who already don't have much is dumb. Target the rich people who exploit everyone else and aid and abet the regime, but leave the little guy out of it.
@Jesse. In fact, the Russian people, as displayed right now by those in Ukraine fighting to defend their homes, do have the power to rise up against a mad man. I agree, if they are comfortable with their BMW's and wearing Prada they are less likely to care. But take away everything and make them sustain on root vegetables for dinner while watching Tupelovs being taken out of storage (as Aeroflot has trouble getting parts...
@Jesse. In fact, the Russian people, as displayed right now by those in Ukraine fighting to defend their homes, do have the power to rise up against a mad man. I agree, if they are comfortable with their BMW's and wearing Prada they are less likely to care. But take away everything and make them sustain on root vegetables for dinner while watching Tupelovs being taken out of storage (as Aeroflot has trouble getting parts to fix Western aircraft) that complacency will vanish real fast.
If you don't believe that, you are part of the problem. And no better than those who could have done something (but did nothing) when the last mad man started invading sovereign nations in Europe for no plausible justification.
So, I'm part of the problem? Gotchya. No, this war was started by the US and NATO. It started when the US destabilised Ukraine in 2014 and started this whole mess. Western nations and media have been hyping a war for months, and they got one. Not once did the US seriously consider the Russian viewpoint. This inequity is what ulimately sparked this conflict. Don't try to act like the US had no part in...
So, I'm part of the problem? Gotchya. No, this war was started by the US and NATO. It started when the US destabilised Ukraine in 2014 and started this whole mess. Western nations and media have been hyping a war for months, and they got one. Not once did the US seriously consider the Russian viewpoint. This inequity is what ulimately sparked this conflict. Don't try to act like the US had no part in pushing this crap show. Also, don't forget the US has spent the last several decades invading and destabilizing countries far from its shores for "security" reasons. At least Russia's security concern is legitimate.
@Jesse - dang, you're one good Russian bot. I mean, I know that NLP algorithms can do language generation reasonably well, but you've also got the average-American IQ and the 'conspiracy theorist who conveniently forgot about Crimea and is now pinning this on the US' vibe to go along with it.
Legit!
But on the off chance you're real, I don't recall NATO lining up security forces around Russia, despite your assertion that "Russia's security concern is legitimate."
Also, study Ukraine's history, specifically what agreement they signed to disarm their 5k nukes after the USSR fell. Someone reneging on that, maybe?
Well, NATO bordering countries exist, but they aren't lined up for the invasion. Like, you know, the way Russia did.
Agreed with some of your positions about "whataboutyourcountries" - but we were literally the process of removing ourselves from 20+ year conflicts. Why start new ones?
You are an idiot Ivan. Keep believing your benevolent dictator.
All Russia is , is a petrol station for the world. Nothing else. No culture provided to the world since 1918.
GDP not even in the top 10 of the world. They are like a 4 year old petulant child stomping their feet demanding to be noticed from being ignored. Backward country
It’s not just Aeroflot that has been banned but all Russian registered aircraft including private jets etc.
Aeroflot isn't registered in Russia.
First thing I thought of was that nearly all commercial aircraft - certainly all those that are western made - are registered in Bermuda. The language of the aviation ban is broad and based on ownership/operation which would foreign registrations operated by Russian carriers.
“No aircraft on a scheduled service which is owned, chartered or operated by a person connected with Russia, or which is registered in Russia shall fly in United Kingdom airspace,” reads...
First thing I thought of was that nearly all commercial aircraft - certainly all those that are western made - are registered in Bermuda. The language of the aviation ban is broad and based on ownership/operation which would foreign registrations operated by Russian carriers.
“No aircraft on a scheduled service which is owned, chartered or operated by a person connected with Russia, or which is registered in Russia shall fly in United Kingdom airspace,” reads a bulletin to pilots just published by the UK Department For Transport.
Correct, not sure about Aeroflot (but the foreign owned rule def applies) but S7 aircraft certainly are registered in Bermuda for that exact reason. Bermuda is a British Overseas Territory, wonder if that'll ever be a consideration.
?? Of course it is. Its parent organisation is the Russian government
Aquitania is referring to the fact that almost all of Aeroflot's aircraft (minus some SSJs) are not registered in Russia with with RA-xxxxx registrations, they are registered in Bermuda with VP-Bxx or VQ-Bxx regs
Unpopular opinion: Pot, meet kettle. The US, UK, Germany and others really have no business condemning Russia's actions. It's hypocritical to the extreme, considering the wars, subjugation of peoples and, in some cases, outright genocide perpetrated by these powers. How can countries that have been responsible for deplorable conditions in certain parts of the world say anything? Of course, I HATE the fact that there is a war. But, there is plenty of blame to...
Unpopular opinion: Pot, meet kettle. The US, UK, Germany and others really have no business condemning Russia's actions. It's hypocritical to the extreme, considering the wars, subjugation of peoples and, in some cases, outright genocide perpetrated by these powers. How can countries that have been responsible for deplorable conditions in certain parts of the world say anything? Of course, I HATE the fact that there is a war. But, there is plenty of blame to go around, and even with the current conflict in Ukraine, the US and NATO hold some of the blame. There's no such thing as completely right and completely wrong in this situation.
I agree with the last sentense. I get your overall point but at what stage can a country cut itself off from its past? I'm not convinced by the argument that the 'western' countries should be quiet because they at some point in the past did ...
Some point in the past? You just ran away from Afghanistan in shame evacuating pets and not local Afghans that served US democratic imperialism.
How convenient, isn't it? Western countries can invade whoever they want but others can't and must be sanctioned!
Iraq? We should have gone in the first time to stabilize the country/region so as to remove Hussein when they invaded their neighbor, Kuwait, and raped an innocent neighbor.
Afghanistan? What, after 9/11 we are supposed to not bring justice to a place that spawned the biggest attack on American soil in history?
Really? What have the Ukraines done? How have they threatened Putin? But wanting to join NATO so as to protect themselves from...
Iraq? We should have gone in the first time to stabilize the country/region so as to remove Hussein when they invaded their neighbor, Kuwait, and raped an innocent neighbor.
Afghanistan? What, after 9/11 we are supposed to not bring justice to a place that spawned the biggest attack on American soil in history?
Really? What have the Ukraines done? How have they threatened Putin? But wanting to join NATO so as to protect themselves from exactly what they knew would eventually happen? Give me a break.
Sure. Russia should just stand by and allow NATO to further threaten their security? Imagine if Mexico tried to join a Russian-led security alliance. Do you think for one second that the US would not intervene militarily to stop it? Give me a break. The US would do the EXACT same thing if the same situation was presented to them.
Here here! I don't support or condone the invasion, but we'd all be remiss if we did not take responsibility for pushing it this far in the first place. Starting in the '90s after the collapse of the USSR, successive US administrations have used NATO as a social engineering tool to build democracies rather than what it was intended to be: a defensive alliance providing for the strategic defense of western Europe. Starting with Yeltsin,...
Here here! I don't support or condone the invasion, but we'd all be remiss if we did not take responsibility for pushing it this far in the first place. Starting in the '90s after the collapse of the USSR, successive US administrations have used NATO as a social engineering tool to build democracies rather than what it was intended to be: a defensive alliance providing for the strategic defense of western Europe. Starting with Yeltsin, every Russian president since the collapse has been against NATO expansion eastward. But we were too caught up in our grand social engineering project to even pretend to listen to their concerns. Now we've hit Russia's red line, and Ukraine is suffering the consequences of our ill-conceived foreign policy.
The problem here is one man (who we don't even know if he's on the cusp of losing his mental faculties) is making the go no go decision and that is crazy. He decided he should stay in power for as long as he wants. There is no checks and balance. Consider what crazy chit trump would have done had there been no checks and balance. That's the issue right now. All the people in...
The problem here is one man (who we don't even know if he's on the cusp of losing his mental faculties) is making the go no go decision and that is crazy. He decided he should stay in power for as long as he wants. There is no checks and balance. Consider what crazy chit trump would have done had there been no checks and balance. That's the issue right now. All the people in Russia could be against invading and likely the majority is against it but 1 single man with a giant ego and probably a tiny vlad is overriding everyone.
BA 10 from BKK is en route an changing its course
Freeze the assets of all Russian nationals. Once you piss off the Russian oligarchs living elsewhere, they will put pressure on Putin in a way that no government can.
Sure, punish the Russian nationals that are average people but who live abroad. That makes sense. Maybe use that tiny gray thing between your ears before you make such rash statements.
They’ve been stashing wealth stolen from the Russian people in western countries for years. We should take every bit of it.
Bot Jesse serves the oligarchs. "Don't hurt the average people" it says.
Russia has now indeed banned UK flights. (Lobdon based reader here)
“to see the events unfolding in Ukraine” — speak after me, Ben: “to see WAR in Ukraine.”
In 1939-1945 when sh*t was going down in eastern europe, the U.S. and western allies fought.
In 2022 when sh*t is going down in eastern europe, the U.S. and western allies....talk.
How far we've come from the 'Greatest Generation'.
As self-proclaimed student of history you ought to know better. It is called the "A-Bomb" or MAD (Mutual Assured Destruction). It is why Putin just invaded Ukraine. He knew that the US and its allies would not dare intervene directly for fear of starting a MAD war.
I sure hope other countries ban Aeroflot and anything Russian that ventures outside of its territories. Total blockade and isolation for another bad student of history is the...
As self-proclaimed student of history you ought to know better. It is called the "A-Bomb" or MAD (Mutual Assured Destruction). It is why Putin just invaded Ukraine. He knew that the US and its allies would not dare intervene directly for fear of starting a MAD war.
I sure hope other countries ban Aeroflot and anything Russian that ventures outside of its territories. Total blockade and isolation for another bad student of history is the way to fight his megalomaniacal aggression!
Yup. Worth noting that Ukraine surrendered their nuclear weapons in the early 1990s. Speaks to the human condition that one country that promised to defend them is now attacking them and the others who also promised to do the same.. do nothing.
In 1939-1941 when sh*t was going down in eastern Europe, the U.S. sat out the war until it was itself attacked.
Considering I'm trying to fly home to the States tomorrow, I hope not!!
I don't think the US will, at least at first, because lots of US citizens will rely on those flights to get home over the next several days/weeks, since there aren't really other nonstop alternatives.
Yes fingers crossed. The UK doesn't care much about giving it's nationals a chance to leave Russia sadly.
As of this morning all UK flights are barred to Russia and using Russian airspace
I fully expect Russia to ban British Airways from their airspace. London to Tokyo would then be approximately 8000 miles apart, which is pushing the range of a 777-200ER non-stop without refuelling in Anchorage.
BA aren't currently operating any flights to that part of the world anyway - passengers taking Finnair / JAL / Qatar etc . This situation can just continue rather than BA resuming a long routing, especially whilst Japan/HK remain closed to most arrivals
Ban Russian airlines from operating to Europe.
Cut Russia off from SWIFT.
Stop issuing visas to Russian nationals.
Make Putin pay and loose the support of the Russian people.
Russian nationals should not be banned from receiving visas. In fact, most Russians hate this war. Why punish the people who are not involved and who had no say-so? And, do you really think that losing the support of the people will remove Putin from power? If you think so, then you have a severe lack of understanding of Russia.
I agree, a huge portion of the Russian population is against this. I am speaking from experience being in Russia as I type this. Tons of Russians I know have family living in Ukraine and they are sick to their stomach over this. Similarly, the immediate reaction when we woke up the other morning to news of the invasion starting was to rush to the banks to withdraw cash. Russians are having PTSD from the...
I agree, a huge portion of the Russian population is against this. I am speaking from experience being in Russia as I type this. Tons of Russians I know have family living in Ukraine and they are sick to their stomach over this. Similarly, the immediate reaction when we woke up the other morning to news of the invasion starting was to rush to the banks to withdraw cash. Russians are having PTSD from the collapse of the USSR and when they invaded Georgia/South Ossetia. They know that they will be the ones most hurt by this (obviously not including Ukranians). They will lose all of their savings, their jobs, and more. Life is going to be very tough for average Russians the next several years.
Yeah, I live in Russia, and my daughter's mother is half Ukrainian. My ex has lots of family living in Ukraine, and she is really worried about them.
I agree that most civilians are against the war and even to extent some soldiers. Action should be taken on their elites and those who feed money to the war machine instead of the russian civilians.
Are they going to remove him under any circumstance, Jesse? Bout time now. ;-)
Did the US and EU condemn Israel the same way they are condemning Russia when Israel bombed and killed Palestinians? They they impose any sanctions on Israel? Instead they supported Israel.
Ban Russian Airlines.