American Airlines pilots have just ratified their new contract, which is valid for four years, and offers an incremental $9.6 billion in value over the course of the contract. While the agreement includes higher pay and all kinds of quality of life improvements, here’s a change that could directly impact some customers who are looking to get upgraded.
In this post:
American Airlines’ new deadhead policy for pilots
American Airlines’ new pilot contract contains an interesting provision for situations where pilots are deadheading. First let me explain what that is, for those who aren’t familiar:
- Deadheading is when pilots are traveling as a passenger in order to position somewhere as part of a trip (in other words, a Charlotte based pilot has his/her first flight out of Dallas, so needs to deadhead from Charlotte to Dallas)
- This is different than commuting, which is where a pilot is based at one airport, but chooses to live in another city, and then needs to commute to base (commuting is a choice, while deadheading can be part of a standard “trip” for pilots)
With American Airlines’ new pilot contract:
- Pilots who deadhead will be assigned the highest class of service for all transoceanic international flights, flights to Hawaii and Alaska, and flights that are south of the equator
- Pilots who deadhead on other routes will initially be assigned in economy, in the following preference order — exit row aisle, then exit row window, then non-exit row aisle, then non-exit row window
- For those flights where they’re initially assigned economy, pilots will be at the top of the upgrade list for a first class upgrade at the time of check-in
American Airlines offers its elite members complimentary space available upgrades. So with this new contract, within 24 hours of departure American pilots would even be ahead of Concierge Key and Executive Platinum members for upgrades. Previously they would only get first class after all elite members had cleared upgrades.
Should pilots be upgraded before passengers?
American Airlines isn’t the first major US airline to have a policy like this, as United Airlines pilots secured a similar agreement in late 2020.
I can see both sides to this. My primary issues with pilots being upgraded ahead of paying customers are the following:
- The optics are bad — no matter what line of business you’re in, it’s not a good look when you are denied something (in this case an upgrade) and it’s instead given to an employee
- Upgrades for elite members have already gotten hard to get, and this will make them even more difficult in many situations
The argument on the other side is that:
- Pilots are skilled professionals, so just as others may get elite status through their travel, it’s not unreasonable for pilots to get similar perks
- It makes sense for pilots to be able to rest when deadheading, since they’ll potentially be piloting a flight afterwards, where they have others’ lives in their hands
- Pilots are in high demand and are in a position to negotiate a great contract, so they’d be stupid not to get whatever they can
Anyway, I’m writing about this mostly from the perspective of understanding this policy change, and not being surprised if you find yourself walking to economy on a flight where you were on the upgrade list, while pilots in uniform are in first class (in fairness, some pilots also just outright buy their tickets for commuting, and may have elite status).
Bottom line
As part of the recently ratified contract for pilots, American Airlines pilots who are deadheading will start being at the top of the upgrade list, ahead of all paying customers. American is following United’s lead here, as pilots at the airline secured a similar perk a few years back.
I certainly can’t blame American pilots for negotiating the best contract they can, though I imagine this won’t go over well with some passengers.
What do you make of this policy change at American?
I’m a EP with an average of 400K annual Loyalty Points and while flying from DFW to MIA tonight 4 Pilots got upgraded ahead of me.
I’ve seen a lot of Pilots in 1st class recently but tonight it really got me upset.
I will certainly rethink if I want to remain loyal to AA going forward and I’m sure a lot of other elite members out there feeling the same way.
This doesn’t bother me. What bothers me is when AA cancels your original flight, puts you on a different flight that costs $660.00 more, then that flight gets delayed and they change your flight back to a later flight and won’t refund any of the money or give you flight or trip credit for any of it. I guess they need to figure out a way to compensate for the up grades all the way around.
I think it’s BS. I just got bumped for a last minute pilot. I own a business and I could t imagine perming an employee (who receives such large compensation like a pilot) over a paying customer who flies as much as I do. May be time to swap to a new airline
Let them enjoy this perk while it lasts. They work for an American legacy airline - where no benefit lasts for long.
The next time AA declares phony bankruptcy, and flushes their benefits and pensions down the lavatory, it'll be the paying customers who get the last laugh.
I can't wait to see u retire with a Platt for life status and find out its useless. AA adding the 75K level was a big downgrade. They should have moved the Platt for life to that level. By the way, you should have seen the great service back when Gold was the top, then Platt and ExPlatt. We were few and great. Sorry, but your status now is as common as a wheat back penny.
The more I fly with American, the more I miss Pan Am, we are just a seat number for them, they stopped treating us as customers a long time ago
Many people think that staff traveling on duty are traveling for their own benefit. In fact they are traveling on behalf of the company. Many senior staff members of non-airline businesses are entitled to travel in premium cabins. There is no difference for airline staff simply because the company they work for is operating the flight. How many commercial passengers who expect upgrades would pay for a bottom of the range car and then expect...
Many people think that staff traveling on duty are traveling for their own benefit. In fact they are traveling on behalf of the company. Many senior staff members of non-airline businesses are entitled to travel in premium cabins. There is no difference for airline staff simply because the company they work for is operating the flight. How many commercial passengers who expect upgrades would pay for a bottom of the range car and then expect a free upgrade to a higher specification? The upgrading of staff on duty travel should apply to all staff and not just pilots, although different cabins may apply depending on the seniority of the staff member concerned. I speak as one who was in the airline business for 40 years and travelled on company business frequently.
Every other company have perks for their employees, why not the pilots. Also, pilots are asked to dead head to flying and sitting in a middle seat does not constitute good rest. I want my pilot rested and comfortable, not tired and agitated.
Good for the pilots, they deserve it.
No need to swoon. Unless American pilots are deadheading en masse, the number of frequent fliers who miss out on upgraded seating because of pilot upgrades is likely to be minimal on any given flight.
4 of them on flight 2208 12/30/2023 DFW to PHX and a few more in plus
Customers should come first. Upgrades have gotten harder since AA went to "automatic upgrades" vs. upgrade coupons. This just makes it even harder to secure an upgrade.
Why do customers deserve an upgrade? They should pay for them, nothing is free in this world.
Because it is an advertised benefit of frequent flyer programs. It stops being a valuable benefit if it is too rare
I really have no dog in this hunt because I buy first/business class seats whenever I fly. That said, I have 300,000 Loyalty Points and more than a million miles. My Executive Platinum status did not come free. In fact it was quite expensive.
Pilots are a bunch of crybabies assholes. All they care about are themselves and no one else. I worked for a airline with crews and they are the worst people in the world to work with. All pilots do is sit in a cockpit and drink coffee and watch the autopilot fly the plane.
This creates an unfavorable class system among employees that makes others feel “lesser than”. AA caved big time, and the other employees will begin to resent the pilots. I doubt they’ll get much respect.
You get what you negotiate.
To all the EPs on here saying AA system is rigged; it’s not your private plane. You are not concierge key which is AA’s top of the tier status. You are just an EP and no one cares about that status. You get ONE free snack box and ONE free drink. You know that because it’s all online when you book your ticket. If you want FC tell your company travel coordinator to splurge in...
To all the EPs on here saying AA system is rigged; it’s not your private plane. You are not concierge key which is AA’s top of the tier status. You are just an EP and no one cares about that status. You get ONE free snack box and ONE free drink. You know that because it’s all online when you book your ticket. If you want FC tell your company travel coordinator to splurge in your company paid travel and stop booking you on coach or just get your credit card ready. Most EPS get that a status because of work anyway and they act like they’re all that, entitled and all and just wants anything free. Free upgrade, free fc meals, free snack box extended to their spouse and kids. This isn’t free all. You are the one rigging the system by expecting all that for free. Tell the company you work for to not book you in coach! Or pay out of pocket for upgrade. Plain and simple. Again you’re not Concierge Key so don’t act like pilots and FAs owe you anything. No one cares about your EP status.
I can't wait to see u retire with a Platt for life status and find out its useless. AA adding the 75K level was a big downgrade. They should have moved the Platt for life to that level. By the way, you should have seen the great service back when Gold was the top, then Platt and ExPlatt. We were few and great. Sorry, but your status now is as common as a wheat back penny.
From the company’s standpoint, a passenger being upgraded although it’s nice and rewarding, it does not generate extra revenue. A crew member having that specific benefit clause in their contract replaces and potentially reduces hourly rates thereby increasing income for the airline. All legacy carriers have been doing this for years and it’s also very infrequent.
They got a 40% raise so no, this is not in exchange for less of a raise.
They haven’t had a raise in over 5 years and the raise is 40% over the next 5 years so that equates to a raise of about 3% a year compounded. Most employee nationwide get at least that. It’s not like it was a huge windfall or anything.
Martin all legacy carries are not doing it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
To answer Pam Mullins question, “ What about FA that deadhead?? Should get the same respect. Pilots arnt god!!”
Because FAs are a dime a dozen. Anybody can be an FA. Go pick up trash Pam.
To Rob pilot for “Amazon Prime”
So you’re pissed that AA pilots who are deadheading meaning they’re on the clock; get first class seat on their own metal before you an Amazon prime pilot? AA is hiring. Oh and Amazon doesn’t have flight department. They’re all contracted. So chances are you’re Omni air pilot and you want to get first class seat first over AA’s own pilots? Make it make sense.
Whether Rob works for Amazon Prime, Omni, Berkshire Hathaway or any other company, he’s a revenue customer with EP status, like many of the people commenting here. We revenue customers are paying record high airfares in both cabins. Notwithstanding that, AA continues to pawn off LCC service in coach, lavishly pushing upgrades as a balm to encourage loyalty in the airline and its credit card programs. Then they rig the game, selling the upgrades to...
Whether Rob works for Amazon Prime, Omni, Berkshire Hathaway or any other company, he’s a revenue customer with EP status, like many of the people commenting here. We revenue customers are paying record high airfares in both cabins. Notwithstanding that, AA continues to pawn off LCC service in coach, lavishly pushing upgrades as a balm to encourage loyalty in the airline and its credit card programs. Then they rig the game, selling the upgrades to and all comers online, and now giving what’s left to their pilots. When you march past an employee in uniform sitting in F, it’s just the most obvious reminder that the game is seriously rigged by the company. Just stop marketing the possibility of upgrades, and focus on making passengers not so miserable in coach so they care less about an upgrade.
When I flew for Continental years ago, all deadhead was first class. Load factors were much lower and first class was bigger. I would not fly coach.
If you want the better seat, buy it. Isn’t that capitalism at its best? The seats are American’s to do with as they please. If the pilots negotiated it in their new contract, great for them!
Flying is exusting even though you are just sitting. Pilots need to be upgraded because they have to work once they arrive and need to be rested for the safety of their next flights.
Executive platinum…I’m now going to not be loyal… best flight schedule, price and most direct will drive my selection. United and Delta can welcome me back!!! Upgrades are paramount. And to add I’ve been a commercial pilot… guys with no customers you have no demand.. and American your not the best!
You know how we solved all these issues and more when we travel? We've stopped flying AA. Period.
Let's be perfectly clear here. The vast majority of these "elite" flyers travel on their company's dime. They are not spending their own money. Don't like it? Become an airline pilot.
I understand that Delta and United also have this for their pilots. I'd rather have a well rested pilot than not. I'm not going to depend on chance to get a FC seat so I'll buy it if I want it.
Aww That's cute you want a cookie? Just curious what have pilots been doing all these years? They seem fine and people who pay their pay check should be first. I can't wait until automation takes over.
Good for the pilots! If concierge key passengers really want to sit in first class they can just buy their tickets. They can afford it. EPs? They’re something else. They just want everything even snacks and drinks for free cuz they’re poor. They’re EPs cuz it’s company/work travel and they don’t really buy their tickets so yea most of them really can’t afford first class out of their pockets so I’m sure they will whine...
Good for the pilots! If concierge key passengers really want to sit in first class they can just buy their tickets. They can afford it. EPs? They’re something else. They just want everything even snacks and drinks for free cuz they’re poor. They’re EPs cuz it’s company/work travel and they don’t really buy their tickets so yea most of them really can’t afford first class out of their pockets so I’m sure they will whine and b**** about this. Too bad they’re not pilots. Blehhh! So go kick rocks! Hopefully they upgrade dhding FAs too before those E.P.easants
The other thing to add perspective on this issue:
In actuality, this is a measure for the pilot group to AVOID deadheads as they are inherently unproductive pay-wise for a pilot. Such a deadhead policy encourages the company to plan work pairings more productively, which in the end is good for everyone, including passengers. It's not merely (or solely) because pilots can negotiate this work perk and they want it. Any pilot would rather...
The other thing to add perspective on this issue:
In actuality, this is a measure for the pilot group to AVOID deadheads as they are inherently unproductive pay-wise for a pilot. Such a deadhead policy encourages the company to plan work pairings more productively, which in the end is good for everyone, including passengers. It's not merely (or solely) because pilots can negotiate this work perk and they want it. Any pilot would rather no deadheads at all and just show up to fly the plane and earn the full pay associated therewith.
Not quite (at least for US carriers). Most Part-121 pilots today receive same pay whether they are DH in a seat in the main cabin or operating in their assigned seat on the flight deck.
If the pilot is working the next leg, I’ve got no beef, but if they’re DHing to layover then I may have an issue.
Delta and United’s contracts have called for upgrades like this for years. Did you or have you pointed this out previously? I’m thinking NO. I wonder why?
When competing for finite resources, pilots, AA has to take steps to match quality of life gains that other airlines provide or they’ll lag further behind in attracting the best qualified. Pattern bargaining for new contracts - nothing more - nothing less
The first bullet point shown has ALWAYS been in place. International DHD seating is not a new item in this new contract.
What about FA that deadhead?? Should get the same respect. Pilots arnt god!!
You should have been a pilot Pam. You get tired serving a coke not much happens. When pilots get tired flying the jet it can get real ugly. AA Little Rock is a great example. GMAB. FAs think they should get everything pilots do. It’s never been a better time to become one. You should give it a try Pam. It’s so easy right.
You get what you negotiate. The FAs didn’t negotiate for this.
Then the FA's should negotiate it.
Because FAs are a dime a dozen. Anybody can be an FA. Go pick up trash Pam.
I see no problem with that. I also believe flight attendants should have it too. Further more I feel that when employees are traveling on a pass should recieve the same benefits. Give back to your employees...isn't that a perk airlines preach. I'm not employed by an airline. Medical field here. When I travel I pay for my business or 1st class seat.
If pilots do not feel they received adequate rest during their deadhead they won’t be able to fly the segment they were assigned to fly after the deadhead. American and other airlines are simply trying to insure their crew members have adequate rest to continue operating the next flight. Who cares if you got first class upgrade to the hub, if the pilot is fatigued you may not make it to your destination!
Look at it this way.
For passengers, regardless of status, it’s an upgrade. You didn’t pay for it. It’s a bonus for being a loyal member. We thank you for your business.
For pilots, it’s part of our compensation package.
If you work at Retailer X, and you get an employee discount, it’s part of your compensation package. If I walk in there as a member of your retailer’s loyalty program, and I get upset...
Look at it this way.
For passengers, regardless of status, it’s an upgrade. You didn’t pay for it. It’s a bonus for being a loyal member. We thank you for your business.
For pilots, it’s part of our compensation package.
If you work at Retailer X, and you get an employee discount, it’s part of your compensation package. If I walk in there as a member of your retailer’s loyalty program, and I get upset that you get a discount while I don’t, even though I’m a loyal member and spend thousands of dollars a year, you’ll laugh at me.
Same premise applies.
It's a big middle finger to their most loyal customers.
They are treating their employees better than their customers? There should be a win win situation not one where the customers look or feel as if they are not treated well.
AA treats their pilots better than american companies treat their road warriors.
If on a work related business trip, any employe should fly in a premium cabin.
Better than their costumers who paid for another class of Service and were hoping to be bumped up. That's absolutely okay. Pax gets what they paid for, deadhead gets rest before the next shift.
Listen, after decades of service, if I happen to get a few “perks” I assure you I EARNED them. Paid for with years of labor, it is absolutely NOT free. And our families paid a price too as we were absent from our families to make sure you safely traveled to be with yours.
I think you spelled "Thank me for my service!" incorrectly.
You chose your career.
You knew the sacrifices and the the benefits that come therewith.
Kindly step down off your hero podium.
You have been compensated for your years of labor.I'm sure you haven't worked for free.I suggest your union negotiate the terms you seek.Make your voice heard at the bargaining table.Nothing is given,it's negotiated.
You do realize you're suggesting exactly what happened. This was a benefit NEGOTIATED by the union with the company. Believe me this was not something just handed over to the pilots for 'free'.
I get why it's in the contract: it's a concession AA could make to the union that didn't cost the company anything. That said, I think it'd be more equitable if the pilots got priority over everyone except the Executive Platinum elites (which does not include me).
Buy the seat
This seems to be a shift in negotiations, and it is not at all about ‘rewarding’ the most rewarding. Recent Air Canada contract agreements have placed Management ahead of other airline groupings, including pilots. In the past, employee upgrades was based on seniority, just as everything related to pilot negotiations was based on.
To me this is a tacit admission by AA that their coach product is so bad their own employees won’t even fly it, and perhaps even consider it a safety issue for pilots deadheading prior to operating an AA flight. As to the argument that passengers should buy a ticket for the cabin they want to fly, fair enough. AA should stop pushing the idea of upgrades, however, as a way to flog credit cards....
To me this is a tacit admission by AA that their coach product is so bad their own employees won’t even fly it, and perhaps even consider it a safety issue for pilots deadheading prior to operating an AA flight. As to the argument that passengers should buy a ticket for the cabin they want to fly, fair enough. AA should stop pushing the idea of upgrades, however, as a way to flog credit cards. They do it on almost every flight, which creates the expectation that upgrades actually exist. Drop the fake upgrade pitch to lure credit card customers or persuade frequent flyers to travel AA instead of the competition. AA creates the upgrade tension, both by pitching it relentlessly, and by offering a terrible coach product.
Absurdly dramatic response...it's your opinion, but very revealing about your intellect.
I’d be curious to hear your point of view then, other than your conclusion that I lack intellect.
Absolutely agree. I fly for Amazon Prime, which means I’m flown all over the place to position for flights. The one thing I looked forward to was getting upgraded since I have high status (Platinum Executive). Now when I walk by a fellow pilot in First Class upgraded over me, I’m going to be pissed and say something. Lastly, you’re absolutely right with AA’s economy section. It sucks, the seats are getting narrower and the...
Absolutely agree. I fly for Amazon Prime, which means I’m flown all over the place to position for flights. The one thing I looked forward to was getting upgraded since I have high status (Platinum Executive). Now when I walk by a fellow pilot in First Class upgraded over me, I’m going to be pissed and say something. Lastly, you’re absolutely right with AA’s economy section. It sucks, the seats are getting narrower and the knee room is shrinking. Time for a passenger bill of rights!
So you’re pissed that AA pilots who are deadheading meaning they’re on the clock; get first class seat on their own metal before you an Amazon prime pilot? AA is hiring. Oh and Amazon doesn’t have flight department. They’re all contracted. So chances are you’re Omni air pilot and you want to get first class seat first over AA’s own pilots? Make it make sense.
Logically it makes sense (for the precise reasons you cite), and since my oneworld sapphire status rarely results in my receiving an upgrade on AA, I doubt it will affect me. That said, were I a Concierge Key(holder) and didn't get an upgrade, I might be a little ticked off...
We’re you a concierge key holder, you would fly a premium cabin to begin with. Otherwise, you wouldn’t be a concierge key holder.
I have no issue with pilots getting first dibs on first class upgrades when they're deadheading.
A certain cohort of frequent flyers seems to feel as though they're entitled to an upgrade, a monster created by the "space available" system. As we know, that system was created because that same cohort were butt-hurt by the indignity of sitting in the economy seat they'd paid for while there were empty seats up the front. Oh, the...
I have no issue with pilots getting first dibs on first class upgrades when they're deadheading.
A certain cohort of frequent flyers seems to feel as though they're entitled to an upgrade, a monster created by the "space available" system. As we know, that system was created because that same cohort were butt-hurt by the indignity of sitting in the economy seat they'd paid for while there were empty seats up the front. Oh, the indignity!
If you want a first class seat, buy a first class ticket. Period.
Friend, you should start an airline on that premise; I'm certain you will develop a very loyal customer base!
@digital_notmad
That's how every airline operates outside of the US.
Qantas domestic won't upgrade you without parting you from your cash, points or both, no matter your status.
Exactly!
I meant my "exactly" to Pete..who has obvious common and fair sense
Pete… you’re an idiot.
Not sure how anyone could be against this tbh
I agree with this move! Every other high- ranking people in other professions ( Drs Lawyers etc) get preferential treatment - why not PILOTS?? They have a very stressful job!!
Out of curiosity, what "preferential treatment" do you believes doctors and lawyers receive, and from whom?
This should be...... interesting.
I’m glad I used my million miles before all this. Employees shouldn’t be upgraded ahead of elite passengers. But you see that stuff all the time. Travel agents were upgraded before full pay passengers on Scenic cruises recently
People who spend the money should have priority over employees and travel agents. Things are so expensive now it’s an insult to ignore them.
Travel agents make money for the cruise line, & upgrading them may provide an incentive to preferentially promote that particular brand of cruise in future. It's business.
If a 777 captain is deadheading from Tampa to Dallas to operate a flight to London, for instance, he/she should be having as restful a flight as possible. If it's very important for paying passengers to travel in first class, then they're best advised to purchase a ticket...
Travel agents make money for the cruise line, & upgrading them may provide an incentive to preferentially promote that particular brand of cruise in future. It's business.
If a 777 captain is deadheading from Tampa to Dallas to operate a flight to London, for instance, he/she should be having as restful a flight as possible. If it's very important for paying passengers to travel in first class, then they're best advised to purchase a ticket in that cabin, & not rely on the upgrade lottery.
This is tame. Air Canada guarantees all deadheading pilots J on all routes, and will kick out revenue pax if necessary.
Keep in mind that there are thousands of corporate pilots with top tier elite levels and all on paid tickets. Many deadhead/commute in uniform and the general public won’t be able to tell them from airline pilots. Bottom line, if you don’t pay for F then Zip it. Mind your own business. Good grief.
Love your reply!
If AA is going to do this (DH at top of Upgrade list) then they should simply confirm any available F/J seat at time the DH pilot is ticketed for the flight. Assign them out of J inventory - without going to upgrade list.
In the interests of balance, staff who are commuting to/from work should not be upgraded. If a seat could be freed up in Coach for a commuter, a commercial passenger should be upgraded to make room. On several flights I have taken in the USA, it seems as if the aircraft is a crew bus with some fare paying passengers going along for the ride.
As an airline pilot (not AA) if my company wants me to position to location X, I am on the clock - doing the company’s business. I get paid the same rate to watch movies and drink cocktails as I do to fly the plane.
My union has negotiated certain contracts with the company on how that’s going to happen. Effectively the company is paying for that travel - and the butt in the...
As an airline pilot (not AA) if my company wants me to position to location X, I am on the clock - doing the company’s business. I get paid the same rate to watch movies and drink cocktails as I do to fly the plane.
My union has negotiated certain contracts with the company on how that’s going to happen. Effectively the company is paying for that travel - and the butt in the seat should be getting all the miles and entitlements of said class of service.
I have no dog in this fight, whom ever buys that business class seat first owns it. As an airline pilot, my union and its members negotiate out work rules. If my contract affords me a class of service it’s up to my employer to make that happen. I typically do not travel in uniform - so what I’m wearing should be irrelevant - and my status should afford me the same benefits as any other paying customer based on ticketed passengers (which an airline employee is effectively ticketed.).
You're a pilot and you're drinking cocktails on duty? Lovely. Why am I not surprised.
Key and ep upgrades clear 4 days / 3 days before departure . The pilots will only get on top of the upgrade list with an economy seat at 24 h before.
That's incorrect. They clear UP TO 100 hours before departure. But exactly when they clear is dependent on the company's algorithms and those upgrades often don't clear until after check-in or, increasingly (based on my anecdotal observations) until boarding has started, and you may already be on-board when you're pulled up front.
Increasingly with AA trying to sell upgrades for $$ the T-100 rule is seen less and less. IME even when the cabin is fairly wide open it's not until around T-24 (or even T-12 and down to T-4) when those seats are released to upgraders. True, this will impact lower elites even more as they're ones counting on more than a couple of seats open after CK/EXP/PP are accommodated, which might now go to a pilot(s).
I am EXP and regularly fly between DFW-Vail and DFW-Louisville. Obviously never get upgraded between DFW-EGE (wait list often 30+ people for an 8-person first cabin). Upgrades DFW-SDF only clear at most 12 hrs in advance.
I’m EP, but on most of my recent domestic flights, I was not upgraded until the I asked at the gate. There were many seats available 3-4 days before the flight, but AA was still trying to sell upgrades. I’m close to getting EP for next year, but will start using alternative credit cards because I want the steak, and not the sizzle that AA is selling.
Why don't you mention what Delta and United's contracts stipulate regarding deadheading? Is this only American? Or will it be industry wide?
Definitely want pilots rested and as comfortable as possible. Take care of your employees and they will take care of your customers. The Karen philosophy of employees should be treated with disdain is coming to end end.
End of story.
As noted lots of deadheading between hubs. Often I've seen well more than 5 pilots between hubs and presumably they'd all get First (other than those that are commuting). Often First is near sold out with revenue tickets so AA may need to downgrade paxs. That will be drama particularly if it's paid First.
You do actually realise this is a non story
Airlines have different priorities for revenue and non revenue. Some non rev duty trips have a priority over a revenue passenger. In case of upgrades crew will often be offered them first.
I don't think I understand your point?
I was former airline management, and there are many buckets of upgrade categories/authorizations. Yes, sometimes essential duty travel requires "must go" status, but that doesn't mean "must go" in First...just a seat in economy usually. Could even be a jump seat (90% of the time in the back galley). Flew a few of those flights long-haul. Crew was always sensitive to my comfort, and I just wanted to...
I don't think I understand your point?
I was former airline management, and there are many buckets of upgrade categories/authorizations. Yes, sometimes essential duty travel requires "must go" status, but that doesn't mean "must go" in First...just a seat in economy usually. Could even be a jump seat (90% of the time in the back galley). Flew a few of those flights long-haul. Crew was always sensitive to my comfort, and I just wanted to keep myself out of their way!
For some reason that I was both grateful for, but also never understood, I was "must go" status for several airlines...which meant a rev pax would be pulled off the flight. I REFUSED to ever accept it....I found it ABSURD that a different airline would even offer to pull a rev pax off their airplane for me.
I should add...I was just management, my travels were not essential...only my laptop essential:):). That's why I would never accept "must go" and have a rev pax removed...just the idea was stupid to me, especially when it was a different airline.
If it relates to essential crew reconfiguration, that's completely different.
Could care less where I sit on a flight of 4 hours or less. I do notice exit rows are being blocked off on newly scheduled flights that haven’t even sold tickets yet.
The other issue is an elite member deciding to pay for an upgrade in app offer and not reviewing LPs. Captains are receiving perks Now it’s time for American to do something for their elites. What a crock of $hit.
I’m a little confused with the wording “Pilots who deadhead will be assigned the highest class of service on all transoceanic flights.”
Sounds to me like they could potentially bump a paid business class traveler if there were no upgrades available on the flight.
I doubt that’s likely, or at least would be a rare impact of an IROP situation. Most crew schedules would be set well before the last premium seat is sold.
It is very likely. If a crew calls in sick or fatigued from Europe or Asia...they will DH another pilot and its absolutely has to be business class or the pilot can deny the assignment. That being said...I am sure they will do everything possible not to impact paying customers.
This happened to me on an Air Canada flight this summer. Booked a business class ticket with miles (LAX-YVR -- not long-haul). Got bumped to economy by dead-heading pilots. One of my most infuriating travel experiences... logically it doesn't matter that much on a 3-hr flight, but it's just so unfair.
Knowing Air Canada's contract with pilots (presumably) allows this, I'll avoid flying them in the future.
Deadheading is such a bad practice anyways, I still can't believe there are no rules against it. Deadheading across country to work another 6-8 hours before rest just doesn't seem safe. There is such an emphasis on crew timeout and regulations regarding rest between trips but nothing for before the actual work day. That being said, this already happens when crew knows GA and GA pulls them up before any plats or golds. Now, pilots...
Deadheading is such a bad practice anyways, I still can't believe there are no rules against it. Deadheading across country to work another 6-8 hours before rest just doesn't seem safe. There is such an emphasis on crew timeout and regulations regarding rest between trips but nothing for before the actual work day. That being said, this already happens when crew knows GA and GA pulls them up before any plats or golds. Now, pilots can demand it if GA is not processing it on their own.
Crew may deadhead on an outbound sector to operate an inbound flight due to tech /sickness etc. I’ve seen engineers on flights as the local station doesn’t have the support. Almost always in a premium cabin to comply with crew rest. In such cases if the flight is full they may deny boarding to a customer in order to accommodate the crew. Otherwise the cost will be even greater the longer the inbound flight is disrupted.
What is the policy of other non European airlines in regard to this issue? Laws, rules and regulations in European countries are written and enforced to benefit the upper class while continuing to preach the world about individual rights and freedom. Just look at the three branches of governments. We can clearly see the corruption is actively. widely and brazenly spreading to the core of values of major institutions that help strengthening the societies against...
What is the policy of other non European airlines in regard to this issue? Laws, rules and regulations in European countries are written and enforced to benefit the upper class while continuing to preach the world about individual rights and freedom. Just look at the three branches of governments. We can clearly see the corruption is actively. widely and brazenly spreading to the core of values of major institutions that help strengthening the societies against the authoritative regimes.
I’m surprised this wasn’t the case all the time as most carriers ( clearly not US carriers) do this and even downgrade premium frequent flyers to accommodate tech crew who are duty paxing
I'm wondering how many passengers are really getting free upgrades? and I mean in routes that matter not (MIA-TAP)
As a platinum pro (middle of five tiers) I've been running about 60-70% upgrades, at least prior to my last trip when I only upgraded 1 out of 4 segments. I just upgraded a flight into DFW at the 72 hour mark -- the earliest possible at my status level. Most of my flying connects in DFW or PHX, with occasional SFO / NYC flights. I tend to like early morning flights, which helps.
Wow, that is shocking to me. As a United 1K with SFO as my home airport, I get upgraded approximately 0% of the time.
I am surprised this is not industry standard in the USA already.
In europe at airlines like BA, IB, AF, KL, LH, LX etc etc the kind of cabin priority that AA pilots have just 'gained' has been the case forever. I know many airlines outside of europe also work in a similar fashion.
I drive a bus on autopilot. Some people call me a professional even though I have no professional degree. I like to pretend I'm important. I also like to take seats from the people who pay me.
So J Smith when are you going to pass your exams and start flying?
Maybe it’s because I work in consumer data, but I feel like when making a fair announcement like this AA should provide high level elites with some datapoints on the likely impact. Most deadheading is between hubs. Very few upgrades happen between hubs anyway. They could say what percentage decrease in elite upgrades they anticipate seeing on hub-to-hub routes. They could also offer an almost zero cost benefit something like if you’re top of the...
Maybe it’s because I work in consumer data, but I feel like when making a fair announcement like this AA should provide high level elites with some datapoints on the likely impact. Most deadheading is between hubs. Very few upgrades happen between hubs anyway. They could say what percentage decrease in elite upgrades they anticipate seeing on hub-to-hub routes. They could also offer an almost zero cost benefit something like if you’re top of the upgrade list on a flight with open F seats and you don’t get upgraded you get 5,000 AAdvantage miles or something.
AA is doing something wise but they can still lessen the perceived impact to elites. Are elites entitled people? Sure, but only because airlines entice them with the lure of those entitlements.
That should say decrease on NON hun-to-hub routes.
Good for the pilots! Congrats on their new contract!
Any airline would gladly trade some loyalty in order to keep pilots happy in such a cheap way. After all, the airline is hoping to revenue sell those seats rather than give them away, what's not to say they offer them cheaper close to departure?
To coattail on NSS's comment . . . and you will receive priority check-in, additional free checked bags, priority security, and priority boarding.
This is such a non-story. Good for the pilots. And it's existing practice at other airlines.
The airlines created a monster when they started these unlimited domestic upgrade policies. People are outrageous with their expectations.
Domestic upgrades are a nice to have, but not really important. And domestic F isn't worth paying for, so it's not worth getting worked up about.
- EXP with AA.
I agree. Complimentary upgrades are not an issue. What I don’t like is American offering elite members to purchase upgrades and not giving them LPs for doing so. If they don’t want to award the entire 8x or 9x then what about 3x or 4X per $1 ?
I would bet that this is technology, not policy, related.
Buy the seat you want. Then you’ll always be happy.
I think the pilots should be upgraded but having elite status shows your loyalty to the airline and this is a perk for choosing to fly a considerable amount with their airline as opposed to another and spend a ton of money with them as well.
As a retired flight attendant and one who deadheaded on a regular basis, the issue of staff members on duty sitting in first/business class was never an issue with the flying public. That was until the U.S. airlines creating a more than liberal policy with upgrades. In turn, creating an entitlement with the traveler that was not realistic. I'm a business owner now and completely understand the concept of filling the forward cabins with passengers...
As a retired flight attendant and one who deadheaded on a regular basis, the issue of staff members on duty sitting in first/business class was never an issue with the flying public. That was until the U.S. airlines creating a more than liberal policy with upgrades. In turn, creating an entitlement with the traveler that was not realistic. I'm a business owner now and completely understand the concept of filling the forward cabins with passengers instead of having a seat fly empty. But the airlines are to blame for setting the expectation of the customer. And yes, @lucky is 100% correct, pilots have always controlled the airlines. They virtually can effect the operation without ever going on strike, i.e. taxi slow, not accept deferred MEL items, etc. They call the shots and have always done so. They are not expendable, whereas many other employees are easily replaced.
Pilots should get priority for First Class, I am of the mindset they should always get booked into F but this is unrealistic. They are about to operate a hundred million dollar machine.
Re your comment on "it’s not a good look when you are denied something (in this case an upgrade) and it’s instead given to an employee"
You aren't denied anything, you are not entitled to an upgrade or that seat, it would...
Pilots should get priority for First Class, I am of the mindset they should always get booked into F but this is unrealistic. They are about to operate a hundred million dollar machine.
Re your comment on "it’s not a good look when you are denied something (in this case an upgrade) and it’s instead given to an employee"
You aren't denied anything, you are not entitled to an upgrade or that seat, it would be different if AA was bumping paid F passengers but if you want first class pay for first class otherwise expect to sit in coach. Honestly I would prefer to go back to the pre-2010 era when comp upgrades didn't exist and 500mi certificates were instead issued, this will avoid people feeling entitled to upgrades that aren't theirs anyways.
The upgrade lists are way too long and people rarely clear, recently I was on a UA 319 and the upgrade list was 70+ people (1/2 of the Y cabin) and no one cleared, as the saying goes "when everyone is an elite no one is an elite" and when the airlines are becoming better at monetizing First class it doesn't make sense to offer a perk that isn't really given to anyone but Global Service/Concierge Key/D360. 500mi certificates would still give long upgrade lists on trunk routes but they could be selectively used.
Deadheading is like traveling for business. I would think/expect that AA just books premium seats for their employees when traveling for business. As it turns out, they’re not…which leaves a bad taste. Airlines should be a role model and should book their own business travelers in premium cabins.
Anyway, for a customer hoping to upgrade it doesn’t make a difference if a pilot is directly booked to first Class or booked to economy and then upgraded.
So you think non-rev should get booked in first or business rather than a for profit entity trying to sell those? Interesting.
Yes, when traveling for business not using pleasure non-rev passes. It is a business cost, there is no difference in Deloitte or American Airlines occupying that seat if it is an employee traveling for business from an optics perspective.
This article has nothing to do with non-revs. They are admitted after everyone else and do not receive upgrades (unless the crew on board allows them to move after the door closes).
Technically in the AA System a pilot is a non-rev, it is listed as Non-Rev Positive Space
Read the article also re-read what Klaus wrote. This has nothing to do with non-revs or commuters who choose to live out of base these are pilots who are deadheading for company business because they have to work in most cases the next flight out of the specific location AA just deadheaded to.
Indeed. Which is why this is such a NON-STORY!
Deadheading pilots isn't an efficient use of the employee so it is used rather sparingly but when needed these pilots absolutely should have the best seating available to them.
What is the argument against this work upgrade?
An elite passenger will be denied a free upgrade and go online to complain how the pilot got to sit in a nicer seat instead.
While AA...
Indeed. Which is why this is such a NON-STORY!
Deadheading pilots isn't an efficient use of the employee so it is used rather sparingly but when needed these pilots absolutely should have the best seating available to them.
What is the argument against this work upgrade?
An elite passenger will be denied a free upgrade and go online to complain how the pilot got to sit in a nicer seat instead.
While AA can release a statement that yes. We didn't give you something free because we were sending a pilot to cover a sick colleague to pilot an A320 back to DFW filled with PAX from XXX who were delayed 8 hours.
Optics can look different depending on the angle.
A lot of businesses follow the same (or similar) policy of booking employees in economy for domestic flights and business for longer international flights. The only way my company pays for domestic first is if there are no more economy seats on a flight I need to be on.