Over the summer, we took our toddler, Miles, on his first transatlantic trip. I wrote about the outbound flight, which was just before he turned two. I also wrote about our home rental in Greece (through Homes & Villas by Marriott Bonvoy) which was our main destination on this trip. Now I wanted to talk a bit about the return flight, which was also his first time flying as a two-year-old.
As you can tell, this isn’t a traditional review series, because quite honestly, the trip was stressful enough without documenting every little thing. I learned a ton from the entire journey, so let me share a few tidbits about our return, which ended up being significantly more stressful than the outbound.
In this post:
The return journey we booked to get home
When we planned our trip to Greece that coincided with our son’s birthday, we initially booked the outbound portion of the trip, and decided to leave the return open. Why?
- We wanted to see how the trip was going, and if it went well, we figured we might stay in Europe a bit longer, and maybe even visit family in Germany
- We had planned this trip a few months out and were able to find good award availability in one direction, but there was nothing even half decent on the return; the best time to book is way in advance or last minute, so I figured we’d finalize something at the last minute, especially given that we were flexible
We had visited Germany, and when we decided that it was time to go home, I looked at award availability. Unsurprisingly, pickings were rather slim across the board. For the day we were looking to go home, I saw one somewhat convenient flight with award availability, from Frankfurt to Boston. Funny enough, there was first and business class award space, but not economy award space (and premium economy awards with partner miles are rarely a good value).
I noticed something unique about this flight — the day before departure, not a single first class seat was occupied, and business class was wide open as well. So I ended up booking our family (including grandparents) five award seats in first class, for 90,000 Aeroplan points per person.
Okay, I’ve gotta be honest. While I absolutely think young ones should be allowed in first class, it’s something I’m not terribly comfortable with personally, since I’m often overly concerned about not disturbing others (or at least that’s what Ford tells me).
But my hope here was that we’d get a private cabin, and there would be no other passengers. That would be an absolute dream, in terms of minimizing the potential disturbance for others. I figured odds were around 50/50, since there were no additional award seats available, there aren’t that many ways to upgrade with Lufthansa, and it’s not like the airline typically doles out free upgrades.
The Lufthansa FCT is surprisingly toddler friendly
Since we were flying Lufthansa first class out of Frankfurt, we could use the First Class Terminal, which allows you to entirely skip the regular terminal. That seemed super convenient, since it would make the whole airport process much easier. However, the First Class Terminal can be quite stuffy in terms of the vibe, and so quiet that you can hear a pin drop, so I was worried about bringing our son there.
Well, I was shocked to find out that the FCT actually has a dedicated play area for kids. I don’t think you guys understand the extent to which my jaw dropped to the floor when I found this out. I’ve been to the FCT more times than I can count, and it’s not that big. So when our PA showed us to this area, I couldn’t believe that this existed, because I was convinced I had seen every part of this fairly small lounge.
This is a really great space and is ideal for families. It’s located behind the bar area, and is totally separate from the rest of the lounge, so you don’t disturb others. It’s also adorably designed, and even has a crib. Most importantly, there are lots of activities for little ones, so they’ll happily stay occupied.
Of course we collected our Lufthansa first class ducks, which were specially themed for the Olympics (and which Miles now enjoys playing with during his nightly bath).
We even had a little meal with him in the restaurant area. He had to have his first “proper” German pretzel, and they had an adorable duck dessert, which I couldn’t help but order for us to share.
Then when it was time to depart, we were driven to the plane. The airline had already set up a car seat for him in the van that took us to the plane. He seemed more interested in the material of the car seat than the gorgeous jumbos we were passing… grrr, c’mon Miles! When you’re grown up, these beauties won’t be flying anymore, so enjoy them while you can!
Our Lufthansa first class flight was… *gulp*
So, how did my hope of having a private first class cabin work out? Well, the night before departure, just hours after booking, I knew things were a bit off. The flight that previously showed as being wide open in premium cabins suddenly showed as being zeroed out across the board, even though there were no changes to the seat map.
Lufthansa had canceled one of its other transatlantic flights the previous afternoon, so lots of people had been rebooked. When we arrived at the FCT, the PA even said that we were the only ones in first class so far. However, an hour before departure, the airline started processing operational upgrades, so people got bumped up to business class, and then others got bumped up to first class.
First class ended up being totally full. Is it wrong that I felt a little less guilty about having a toddler since no one else had actually paid for first class? I dunno, you tell me…
How did the flight go? Honestly, I’d say it went about as well as I was realistically expecting (though not as well as I dreamed of it going). For one, the crew was helpful and friendly, and the other passengers didn’t scoff when they saw a toddler, and were even friendly. Still, there were some challenges.
First of all, with Miles having turned two before this flight, he had to sit in his own seat for takeoff and landing, which he was absolutely not a fan of. That was honestly the hardest part of the flight. Getting a two-year-old to do something they don’t want to do is perhaps one of the biggest challenges any parent can deal with. Like, why would he want to sit in a chair with his seatbelt on, when he can instead continuously open and close the seat belt or the window shade?
Obviously we did everything we could to keep him entertained in a non-disruptive way, by giving him plenty of TV time, bringing new toys he hadn’t played with, etc. But on an eight hour flight, he understandably got bored.
As I explained when I wrote about the outbound portion of the trip, one of the challenges is that Miles is an incredible sleeper at home — I think he’d win the Olympic Gold medal in the “sleeping 12 hours interrupted at home every night” category. But the second he’s not in his normal environment, he just doesn’t want to sleep.
That’s a blessing and a curse. Obviously it would be great if he were more flexible when traveling, but we also can’t take for granted how amazing he is at home.
So honestly, it was a really exhausting eight hours. He got absolutely zero sleep. On the plus side, he didn’t have a single meltdown. However, he was also extremely restless. Like, he was happy watching TV for an hour, and playing with toys for some amount of time, etc., but there’s only so much to do on a transatlantic flight. Eventually we also checked out the “cargo hold” bathrooms, just for a change of scenery.
This trip was a learning experience
We’re so happy we took our soon on his first transatlantic trip, and of course we learned a lot, and would do some things slightly differently if we were to redo it. Here are a few takeaways:
- We’re so happy that we took the trip, because we had an amazing time on the ground in Europe, and I feel like Miles grew from the experience
- We’re not going to take Miles on another long haul trip until he’s a bit older; many people had warned us that it’s really hard to travel with a two-year-old, but it gets easier when they’re three(ish), so we’ll see
- I absolutely don’t want to get Miles used to exclusively traveling in first and business class; I think he’s not yet at the age where he can get jaded, and my goal here was that he’d have somewhere comfortable to sleep in hopes of that minimizing disruptions, but that didn’t really work out
- We’ve taken several domestic trips with him since this journey, and we honestly find it easiest to fly in economy, since the typical 3-3 configuration is ideal, since he can sit between us
- Even in the few months since he has turned two, I feel like he has already grown quite a bit, and we’re now somewhat able to negotiate with him when he wants to do things a certain way
- I can’t overstate how tough it is to get a two-year-old to sit in their own seat with their seat belt on, and it’s quite a transition compared to traveling with an infant
Bottom line
We had such an amazing time taking our son to Europe for the first time. The flying was all a bit more challenging than I was hoping (he just doesn’t like to sleep when he’s stimulated), while our time on the ground was easier than I expected (he had no issues with jet lag).
While we’re happy to have had this experience, we’re going to wait until he’s a bit older before we take him on another long haul trip, so that it’s perhaps a little bit less stressful and more predictable. We’ve been doing a fair bit of domestic economy travel with him lately, and I think for the time being that’s our sweet spot. It’s amazing how quickly kids grow up, because he’s already quite a different person now compared to when we took this trip.
Anyway, thanks for reading, and now I’m going to get started on publishing one of my “real” review trips!
I disagree with you and you should not take a two year old in First Class. It is a waste of money and miles. You are being selfish and should wait until he turns 7. People want get sleep or work on a flight and does not want to be disturbed with a young child.
As a DINK (double income no kids) I BEG airlines to have some childless first class flights available. I literally would pay double to not have to have multiple trips with screaming rug rats and parents who can’t be bothered to do anything. (And I know there are good parents out there that do well- but let’s be honest MOST DONT)
We travel frequently with our son now 2.5 years old. Our most recent trip was sydney to belgrade return business. No chance of lugging a car seat with 2 stops and 31 hours of travel. As usual, he took it all in his stride and surprised us. While he has never had a tantrum on a plane before it was his first time in his own business seat with the 1st leg sydney to singapore...
We travel frequently with our son now 2.5 years old. Our most recent trip was sydney to belgrade return business. No chance of lugging a car seat with 2 stops and 31 hours of travel. As usual, he took it all in his stride and surprised us. While he has never had a tantrum on a plane before it was his first time in his own business seat with the 1st leg sydney to singapore (almost 40min from seat belt sign on to off at take off). I agree that it is the hardest part especially in business seat config and wondered if purchasing an extra seat in economy would have been better but glad we went business as barely an issue (also lounge access, priority checkin, free hotel stay, comfort etc). I actually found our 3 hr (budget) wizz air flight from belgrade to london harder with him. There were a few times when he started up but thankfully quickly calmed and pressure in ears during take off and landing has never caused an issue (i think for some kids it can just be a problem no matter what). We paid for the seats including his so I don't care too much for people saying toddlers don't belong on planes. We have family overseas who cant travel for various reasons and we work hard so dont believe we should be limited in where we decide to go because of others. Children can travel so those who want private quiet space should get a private jet (yes, im one of those who said it). We don't waste our money on business class trips of less than at least 7 or 8 hours (try living in Australia, you soon understand what a long haul flight is). I packed a whole hand luggage suitcase for him with new toys, blue tooth earphones (good luck keeping those things on a toddler) clothes and snacks which helped during take off and landings. You tube videos downloaded on a spare phone were a life saver. Longer stop overs (and 2 instead of 1 stop over) to let him run around and explore. Not having a strict sleep routine also helps (although like your son, ours only ever sleeps in one place well and that is our bed so can be difficult to get to sleep anywhere else other than roght next to me). He stayed awake at the 2 stop overs (6 hours in Singapore and 3+ hours in istanbul) so he slept most the 12 hr leg and also slept quite a bit of our first 9 hour flight having been up early to travel to airport. I kept him breastfeeding until the end of our most recent trip as it helped him fall asleep and certainly helps on flights (thankfully that is now behind us). I never wanted children and having done many sydney-europe return (ecomony) when i was younger I never understood what parents went through. Maybe I was lucky but on all the flights I have done I don't recall one incident where child was disruptive with constant crying, tantrums or bad behaviour other than kids annoyingly kicking the back of seats. Sure they start up at times but most are quite quick to settle. It is, however, stressful travelling with a baby or toddler and if its not something one is prepared or confident to do, then best not to travel until they get older. I know one day I may just be unlucky and not be able to calm him (or the next on her way) but I will try and I'm certain it will work. As for staying in seat during take off and landing I'm not so confident.
I totally disagree for not flying with kids "until they get older". Being father of 6, I have never exlerienced any problems. We have flown annually two transatlantic return trips (usually in F) since children have been 3 months old.
Since nobody else mentioned this,
Lucky, does your son really have $300 Golden Goose sneakers on?
Come on!
Sorry to be a contrarian but I’ve had 50% of my business class trips ruined by screaming babies and small children. Not blaming the children. Noise cancellation technology has improved but cannot produce the same cancellation at widely variable frequencies. Last trip on Swiss Business and previous United Polaris all had screaming kids. In set of parents just told FA, “there‘s nothing we can do and everyone here has to live with it.“ decided to...
Sorry to be a contrarian but I’ve had 50% of my business class trips ruined by screaming babies and small children. Not blaming the children. Noise cancellation technology has improved but cannot produce the same cancellation at widely variable frequencies. Last trip on Swiss Business and previous United Polaris all had screaming kids. In set of parents just told FA, “there‘s nothing we can do and everyone here has to live with it.“ decided to move to premium economy on return with pause on East Coast and continue next day, all in day light. No use paying for business when sleep is impossible. Parents: I get that you want the comfort of business; per the suggestions above, please help everyone out by the prep.
I have 5 children and all have done london to west coast business class since 2 years old with zero problems
Here's some unsolicited advice from a parent of two boys now both in their 20's who traveled exclusively in F or B when flying internationally growing up (award space was a lot easier to get back then).
Don't worry about spoiling Miles just because he always/mostly flies upper class. Our kids understood they were only up front because it was "free." Now as adults its up to them to earn the points and find space...
Here's some unsolicited advice from a parent of two boys now both in their 20's who traveled exclusively in F or B when flying internationally growing up (award space was a lot easier to get back then).
Don't worry about spoiling Miles just because he always/mostly flies upper class. Our kids understood they were only up front because it was "free." Now as adults its up to them to earn the points and find space if they want fly up front. If kids are raised to believe that just like everything else they were given as children travel, including traveling in comfort, is something they have to work for when they grow up, they'll be fine.
Seeing parents put in the effort to use miles rather than cash teaches a child to be thrifty so then can live well while living within their means. Now that they are young adults our kids work hard to earn miles and plan ahead so they can use them. When that isn't possible they fly discounted coach without any expectation that it should be otherwise.
The United Club in Orlando has a kid room.
On the issue of LH doing upgrades from J to F - they definitely do - even when not oversold in J.
A few years back - I was on the 748 from FRA-IAD in F - only half full. Rode in the car with a woman from the FCT - but she was "HON" and back in J. After the fight was fully loaded and ready to go - the FA/Purser moved her...
On the issue of LH doing upgrades from J to F - they definitely do - even when not oversold in J.
A few years back - I was on the 748 from FRA-IAD in F - only half full. Rode in the car with a woman from the FCT - but she was "HON" and back in J. After the fight was fully loaded and ready to go - the FA/Purser moved her up to F (no new boarding pass). I had talked to her in the car to the plane - and she ask about why traveling - I was returning from a MegaDo - and she was wow - and you are flying F. She said she was HON - which is why she was in the FCT.
I agree, the 3 seats in econ were the easiest when our kids were young. I love me some first class, but the logistics of being right next to the kid helped a lot.
Now, my favorite biz seats are the 2x2x2 where my wife and I can each "block" our children in the window seats.
I don’t know that three is much easier…my son is about to turn 4 and we took him on his first transatlantic trip back in September. We did BA premium economy and it was pretty stressful. We’ll definitely wait another year before we do that again but I think next time will be a lot easier. We’ve also determined that economy is the way to go for now. As, like you said, we can grab a set of three seats together.
Do what my brother & his wife did in the naughties when their three boys were little, and have the kids fly in biz with nanny while they are in first.
I said this before and I’ll say it again: a young infant or toddler NEEDS adult supervision and it’s super hard in premium seats, unless you’re in Q Suites or something similar. We rode on Hawaiian’s A330 business and that was fairly easy to tend to our son because the seats are right next to each other.
Lots of adults throwing toddler tantrums on this blog.
We flew First with our sons starting when the first one was barely 6 months old (awards were a lot easily to get back then). I second the suggestion that if you didn't, bring a car seat since your toddler/infant will then feel right at home (practice saying "isn't this great" and "it's just like our car!").
Unfortunately "feel right at home" could mean very unhappy as it did on the return flight of our...
We flew First with our sons starting when the first one was barely 6 months old (awards were a lot easily to get back then). I second the suggestion that if you didn't, bring a car seat since your toddler/infant will then feel right at home (practice saying "isn't this great" and "it's just like our car!").
Unfortunately "feel right at home" could mean very unhappy as it did on the return flight of our first trip when infant decided to he was very, very unhappy, probably because his ears were stuffed. When this happens the toilet is your friend. The other passengers in F or B gladly using the remain facilities allowing you and your child to sequester yourselves there for as long as it takes for the crying (or screaming) to subside.
It can make for an unpleasant hour (or two) but it's worth it because when you start them very young it doesn't take long for flying to become routine. By the time our second came along #1 son would hop on his seat and gladly start watching plane and train videos on his little DVD player and it wasn't long after that before the video was replaced with a stack of picture books and pretty soon ones with words.
Pretty soon getting off the plane other passengers would go out of their way to complement the boys on how well behaved they were and more than once a flight attendant hearing this would say that in fact they were a lot better than many of the adults who fly up in the nose.
Not much that we did really. Just a bit of guidance and some practice makes perfect.
I sometimes hear people say they learned English by watching TV. It might be true but I am highly skeptical. To speak little French when visiting Le Louvre is quite embellished. French is a difficult language to learn as it has masculine/ feminine, singular masculine is dominant over plural feminine, usage of diacritical marks such as accent and little chapeau, etc...
Anyway, the main problem is when parents do not provide guidance and discipline...
I sometimes hear people say they learned English by watching TV. It might be true but I am highly skeptical. To speak little French when visiting Le Louvre is quite embellished. French is a difficult language to learn as it has masculine/ feminine, singular masculine is dominant over plural feminine, usage of diacritical marks such as accent and little chapeau, etc...
Anyway, the main problem is when parents do not provide guidance and discipline to kids in how to behave accordingly in public. Only the tyrannical minority believes if you do not like kids in premium seats, fly private plane. I did not dine out or travel on plane when my child was under five years old. Why should I subject others to my child's sudden and maybe prolonged tantrum when all of them paid for the same service but they did not inflict the same misery on me? Parents can travel with their kids in their car to wherever they choose. Planes have confined environment that we cannot escape from misbehaved kids. We, as a society, will bear the brunt to put up with those misbehaved kids, throughout their adulthood and into their senior years. Age appropriate travel on plane is above 8 when they learn and remember the host countries.
I agree that other passengers should not be subjected to a prolonged tantrum on an airplane and that includes passengers in every class of service.
In all our years of traveling only once did one of our children have a meltdown and as I mentioned in my other post we whisked him off to the toilet and held/bounced/whatever was necessary until he calmed down and was quiet. That obviously isn't going to be possible...
I agree that other passengers should not be subjected to a prolonged tantrum on an airplane and that includes passengers in every class of service.
In all our years of traveling only once did one of our children have a meltdown and as I mentioned in my other post we whisked him off to the toilet and held/bounced/whatever was necessary until he calmed down and was quiet. That obviously isn't going to be possible should this occur during takeoff, landing or turbulence but those are (generally) not for prolonged periods of time and I'd point out that the ratio of toilets to passengers is much better in F than in B and B than in Y so in terms of disturbing other passengers the inconvenience to others is no more and likely less if the child is traveling in an upper cabin.
While I understand that you said that you never took your child on a plane until they were five that isn't practical for people who have to transit long distances and oceans and may not even be desirable. Once we pointed out to our kids what was expected of them when they were on a plane, they got it and the only time there was an issue it was cured by taking them off to the toilet where they wouldn't be heard while we attended them.
Perhaps the problem isn't the children, nor that parents don't care, but it just doesn't occur to them ok to take them somewhere when things go south so other passengers won't be impacted.
@globetrotter beaucoup des enfants sont bilingues. Même trilingue. I have a friend whose 10 year old kids speak conversational Japanese , French and Spanish. They also write it and attend language classes.
Moving on, you write about misbehaving children on flights and yet disruptions are entirely caused by adults When was the last time you read about an intoxicated child disrupting a flight or a diversion to be met by the police ?
Guess I’ll chime in. I RARELY get to travel in such comfort. Takes time to earn the miles and when I finally get to travel, I want that great experience. A toddler really can be a distraction to the whole experience, whether the parents work at keeping them entertained.
So if you have the money/miles to take your kids along, keep in mind the infrequent fliers like me on that rare non-economy flight. I’m...
Guess I’ll chime in. I RARELY get to travel in such comfort. Takes time to earn the miles and when I finally get to travel, I want that great experience. A toddler really can be a distraction to the whole experience, whether the parents work at keeping them entertained.
So if you have the money/miles to take your kids along, keep in mind the infrequent fliers like me on that rare non-economy flight. I’m not there to help/watch your kids mature in the whole travel experience.
Sorry, but I disagree with your taking them along in first class.
That doesn't seem right. Isn't how they behave rather than their age that determines whether your's is a good experience?
Yeah, my kid isn't not going to spend time with his grandmother and me in my home country because you want to have a great experience.
sorry, not how any of this works. if you don't want to have exposure to the general public when you fly, including children, then you need to fly private. there is no assumption or guarantee that you will have only adults on board. other people got their tickets just as you did.
Good. Don’t ever worry about bringing a child into first class.
Rookie mistakes ; Complaining about meal choices and screaming kids. I could care less.
How much less could you care?
@Dave
I’m just happy to fly in business class or First class on a long haul flight. I’m not bothered. I have no children and I would never parent shame. TBH if anything I’m happy for the kid running up and down the aisle screaming. To each their own.
What a forthright and fun article to read. So often, travel writers don't talk often about traveling with children. I am impressed at how much thought and effort Ford and you put into planning your son's first international trip and how grandparents were included. Hope you will share more "journeys with toddlers." Lastly, I fully concur with the comment of an earlier writer--Miles is a cutie!
It’s essential to take a car seat onboard!!!! Honestly the best way to travel with young kid. They’re so much more comfortable being strapped in than squirming in a seat. They’ll sleep well too.
A seat with a seatbelt is just far too squirmy. We have three kids and only realised this with kid 3.
Absolutely. As much as possible, my son flies in a car seat. He’s used to it, and we like how he’s more safe and secure.
“many people had warned us that it’s really hard to travel with a two-year-old, but it gets easier when they’re three(ish)”
That breakpoint seems irrelevant to me, and meant nothing for my 2 kids, which were admittedly pretty easy to travel with.
I’d say the big breakpoints in child travel are:
1. Pre-mobility. Can’t walk/ crawl. Super easy travel.
2. Potty trained. Leaving the diaper industrial complex and all its hassle behind is great.
3....
“many people had warned us that it’s really hard to travel with a two-year-old, but it gets easier when they’re three(ish)”
That breakpoint seems irrelevant to me, and meant nothing for my 2 kids, which were admittedly pretty easy to travel with.
I’d say the big breakpoints in child travel are:
1. Pre-mobility. Can’t walk/ crawl. Super easy travel.
2. Potty trained. Leaving the diaper industrial complex and all its hassle behind is great.
3. Stroller unnecessary. You can travel without extra gear to many places.
4. Can be reasoned with. I forget how old my kids were, but it was past 3.
For me (having solo traveled with two kids that are two years apart), the only really tricky age was around 10-20 months, when they just started to walk and get independent thoughts but can neither be bribed nor reasoned with. After that, car seat + tablet (which they only ever get on long drives or flights) was more than enough to keep them happy and occupied for a transatlantic flight in our case.
As a parent of a under-2, I'm appreciating these reviews and other related guidance.
We also just got back from a transatlantic trip. One thing we've done when traveling that has really helped was bringing his car seat. This puts him in a familiar setting since he's used to his car seat, and it keeps him in his seat since he can't get out on his own. It means we had another thing to...
As a parent of a under-2, I'm appreciating these reviews and other related guidance.
We also just got back from a transatlantic trip. One thing we've done when traveling that has really helped was bringing his car seat. This puts him in a familiar setting since he's used to his car seat, and it keeps him in his seat since he can't get out on his own. It means we had another thing to manage on the ground, but once we got to the hotel it basically just staying the in the closet the entire time. It also really helped with sleep since we're able to drape a blanket over the car seat to darken the environment for him and prevent him from focusing on all the new and interesting things around him.
Ben, good for you for taking Miles on a trip like this! I agree that age ~12 months until about 3 years is the hardest. They are mobile at that point, but too young to understand that “we’re taxiing right now and FAA regulations require you to be seated, and not climbing over the seat in front of you or rolling on the floor.” I promise it gets better soon.
We took our three kids...
Ben, good for you for taking Miles on a trip like this! I agree that age ~12 months until about 3 years is the hardest. They are mobile at that point, but too young to understand that “we’re taxiing right now and FAA regulations require you to be seated, and not climbing over the seat in front of you or rolling on the floor.” I promise it gets better soon.
We took our three kids (including a two year old) from the East Coast to Cairo last year - while there were some challenges, it went better than expected and I’m glad we did it. Kids need to be exposed to the world and you can’t stay home because you’re worried that they might make noise on an airplane.
Zero problem with toddlers in F/J, *as long as* the parents are giving some effort to keep the kids entertained. Letting them talk loudly without trying to shoosh them, cry without trying to comfort them, just about does me in. I feel the same about grown ass adults talking at full volume or loudly laughing in the middle of the night on a TPAC flight. Just plain rude for not trying to be a decent passenger.
@JustinB
You can’t have your cake and eat it to. You’re ok with toddlers in first class but the parents must put a muzzle on them
Make up your mind.
As far as adults go New Yorkers are the worst. Way too loud.
What's wrong with babies/toddlers flying premium cabins, when they (or their parents) paid either a cash or a mile for the valid flight ticket?
But like George Romey suggests, lack of discipline provided by parents is the problem.
Even in Japanese domestic flights you might encounter some discomfort caused by a (Japanese) toddler nowadays.
I think this alone explains how serious this has become.
If that happens in Japan than what would...
What's wrong with babies/toddlers flying premium cabins, when they (or their parents) paid either a cash or a mile for the valid flight ticket?
But like George Romey suggests, lack of discipline provided by parents is the problem.
Even in Japanese domestic flights you might encounter some discomfort caused by a (Japanese) toddler nowadays.
I think this alone explains how serious this has become.
If that happens in Japan than what would it be like in the rest of the world?
So many comments about kids shouldn't be allowed in business or first, are they all coming from adult toddlers that can't understand that they were toddlers (or maybe mentally still are) themselves?
Post kids behave better than the adults I've seen on flights and I find that it's adorable to have a bub as a distraction to the otherwise uptight and snooty flight filled with people who think too highly of themselves.
FYI...
So many comments about kids shouldn't be allowed in business or first, are they all coming from adult toddlers that can't understand that they were toddlers (or maybe mentally still are) themselves?
Post kids behave better than the adults I've seen on flights and I find that it's adorable to have a bub as a distraction to the otherwise uptight and snooty flight filled with people who think too highly of themselves.
FYI - for the misogynistic people out there who wants to impress the flight crew - it goes a looong way to show a bit of geniune friendliness to kids instead of scoffing at them,
"So many comments about kids shouldn't be allowed in business or first, are they all coming from adult toddlers that can't understand that they were toddlers (or maybe mentally still are) themselves?"
Worst argument you could make!
It's the opposite. Because I understand I was a toddler. And I definitely wasn't flying first or business.
@JoePro - I'm a bit confused here, are you saying that just because you didn't get to fly first/business class as a toddler, no toddler should? Or are you saying that because you understand you were a little sht from toddler age, therefore, all toddlers are little shts and therefore shouldn't be in first/business class?
I may or may not have claimed toddler status and played in that room before.
Ben - Miles is adorable!
Hi Ben, as a fellow father with a 2 year old and a 10 month old, I've really been liking this different kind of trip report. We've done several long-haul flights with our 2 year old since he was born, going to places like Canada, Japan, Maldives, UAE, and Philippines, and our latest trip was the first time we traveled with both our kids. I definitely feel for you on getting your son to actually...
Hi Ben, as a fellow father with a 2 year old and a 10 month old, I've really been liking this different kind of trip report. We've done several long-haul flights with our 2 year old since he was born, going to places like Canada, Japan, Maldives, UAE, and Philippines, and our latest trip was the first time we traveled with both our kids. I definitely feel for you on getting your son to actually sit for take-off and landing! That's something my 2 year old also likes to fight. I know you said you would wait a few more years for your son to get older before going on another long-haul but trust me, they do get better at it the more they experience it, so I wouldn't necessarily let that keep you from taking him anywhere if you planned on doing another family trip overseas in the near future.
Also, definitely agree with the bit on economy actually being easier, to some degree. We mostly fly business/first for our long-haul trips but many configurations make it hard to actually be within hands-reach of your child when sitting down unless it's an older or "worse" product such as Lufthansa J or Turkish's 2-3-2 J. For our last trip, we flew American Premium Economy on the way back from Japan and it felt like a pretty good compromise.
Maybe we will see some Premium Economy Class reviews on OMAAT soon !
Totally agree with this. I have a 2 year old and a 14 month old and have flown long haul now on 5 return trips to Europe. These are my takeaways:
1) Business class is more stressful than helpful because of "being seated" during takeoff, landing and turbulence rule.
2) Premium economy wins everytime when using a car seat and CoziGo (its basically a blackout tent that is airline approved and sits on top...
Totally agree with this. I have a 2 year old and a 14 month old and have flown long haul now on 5 return trips to Europe. These are my takeaways:
1) Business class is more stressful than helpful because of "being seated" during takeoff, landing and turbulence rule.
2) Premium economy wins everytime when using a car seat and CoziGo (its basically a blackout tent that is airline approved and sits on top of the car seat - game changer).
3) Only take flights departing after 7pm in both directions so the kids sleep.
We once flew back from Europe during the day - horrible!
Did he enjoy the caviar?
Infants should not be traveling. The benefits of travel are lost on them, and the health risks of air cabin pressurization, travel across time zones, and eating unhealthy and unfamiliar foods (thereby altering gut bacteria) are understated because there is not much medical research in this area.
Kids should take their first flight at maybe age 7 or 8 and it should be domestic to Disneyland or Disney World.
Redline "infants" with "infants, toddlers, and children under the age of ~7."
Thank you! Fully agree but would add they belong in economy.
What do you expect the parents to do ? My first flight was age 1. I imagine you were never an infant or your parents left you in a foster home for 3 weeks. At 3 plus we are learning to talk and possibly absorbing a second language. At 6 I remember visiting the Louvre and spoke some French.
"What do you expect the parents to do ? My first flight was age 1. I imagine you were never an infant or your parents left you in a foster home for 3 weeks. At 3 plus we are learning to talk and possibly absorbing a second language. At 6 I remember visiting the Louvre and spoke some French."
That's because you had/have good parents.
Paul Weiss is just a garden variety asshole sock puppet....
"What do you expect the parents to do ? My first flight was age 1. I imagine you were never an infant or your parents left you in a foster home for 3 weeks. At 3 plus we are learning to talk and possibly absorbing a second language. At 6 I remember visiting the Louvre and spoke some French."
That's because you had/have good parents.
Paul Weiss is just a garden variety asshole sock puppet. Ignore him and he'll go away for awhile before reemerging with a new name but the same schtick.
Based on this and his other comments here, I’m pretty confident that Paul Weiss demonstrates worse behavior towards flight attendants and other passengers on an airplane than a two year old.
So children to don't have the right to emigrate from one country to another unless they are at least 7 years old? Nor to visit family that may live in a distant city or another continent? How about to fly to receive necessary medical care?
I've never heard of a study regarding infants being exposed to low air pressure. Would you be able to provide a citation to one?
I'm also having trouble understanding...
So children to don't have the right to emigrate from one country to another unless they are at least 7 years old? Nor to visit family that may live in a distant city or another continent? How about to fly to receive necessary medical care?
I've never heard of a study regarding infants being exposed to low air pressure. Would you be able to provide a citation to one?
I'm also having trouble understanding how travel in and of itself might expose them to unhealthy food. Is the food in Los Angeles known to be across the board unhealthy compare to what is available in New York? And even if it were I thought infants consumed breast milk and/or formula and then baby food. Are you suggesting that these become unhealthy at or after being at altitude?
As for unfamiliar food I'd say our experience is that traveling required them to try unfamiliar food contributed to our children's health and well being. Exposing them to a broad range of tastes, smells and even textures meant they were willing to embrace a diet that wasn't primarily pizza, hamburgers, fries, pasta, mac/cheese and fried chicken strips so common with children here in America.
Every family finds its own way and I agree that infants can make everyone else's life on a plane miserable but your assertions just don't seem to make much sense.
Good god Steve
No wonder Trump is winning
People hate hearing this kind shit rationalizing
I'm confused. You mean people hate rational, fact based reasoning?
My real issue isn't with the small child it's with the parents that refuse to do any prep work so that their children do not bother others. Like bringing toys, food items, videos (worn with headphones). If the child is old enough being given a talk to about "adult spaces." But most people today think they're heroes because they decided to have children and everyone else should make amends.
Years ago traveling in coach I...
My real issue isn't with the small child it's with the parents that refuse to do any prep work so that their children do not bother others. Like bringing toys, food items, videos (worn with headphones). If the child is old enough being given a talk to about "adult spaces." But most people today think they're heroes because they decided to have children and everyone else should make amends.
Years ago traveling in coach I and my three brothers were given the speech about proper behavior when flying. Today a screaming child is considered something that you should endure.
My real issue is with grown-ass adults who impose their views of what other adults should do in terms of prep work, giving talks. These grown-ass adults are seething with entitlement and they think it's other people who are wrong for not conforming to their own invented standards of behavior.
Yeah, commercial air travel is public transportation. You can pay the fare, you can fly. There are a few rules of decorum spelled out in...
My real issue is with grown-ass adults who impose their views of what other adults should do in terms of prep work, giving talks. These grown-ass adults are seething with entitlement and they think it's other people who are wrong for not conforming to their own invented standards of behavior.
Yeah, commercial air travel is public transportation. You can pay the fare, you can fly. There are a few rules of decorum spelled out in the contract of carriage that the flight crew can enforce when things get really out of control, but for the most part, you do need to endure other passengers, children and adults, on commercial flights.
I've had infants spill their entire meal in TPAC economy on my lap. The parents did not say a word to me.
If you don't want to endure that kind of stuff you can fly private. Oh what what's that, you are too poor? Oh no!
Typical quasi-liberal drivel. Just because something is public space, whether it be transport, building etc. doesn't mean anyone should be able to behave in whatever way they deem fit with zero regard for others. Not everyone subscribes to your nihilistic sociological views.
Clearly you’re American. The worst clients I deal with. Always whining and complaining — worse than infants. Mostly republicans of course like the baby in chief.
What a totally gratuitous remark.
You go to far. There are expectations as to public behavior and while they vary depending how someone is they also vary by where they are. What is acceptable on a playground isn't necessary acceptable in church.
That said flying isn't always optional and children can and will lose it so while parents a right to travel there is also a responsibility to their fellow travelers by being prepared and having a plan if...
You go to far. There are expectations as to public behavior and while they vary depending how someone is they also vary by where they are. What is acceptable on a playground isn't necessary acceptable in church.
That said flying isn't always optional and children can and will lose it so while parents a right to travel there is also a responsibility to their fellow travelers by being prepared and having a plan if the child become disruptive. That doesn't imply they can mitigate all the effects of a meltdown but that they are ready and able to do what is possible given the limits of being in a confined space.
I'd say that the parents of the child who spilled their meal on you failed to live up to this standard if for no other reason they failed to apologize and assist you after the event. But since you used the plural, parents, and they should wherever possible place a child either at a window, aisle, between them or on one of their laps such that the child is not immediately adjacent to another passenger.
You were very understanding my sense is you don't think they acted with proper consideration for others and based on your description of events I agree.
Well of course it's all about you. Not the people around you. You are exactly the kind that goes rushing the boarding lanes during pre board because boarding is "all about you."
Why throw insults when you could instead make a convincing argument for your position? We learn my listening to what others have to say and discovering that sometimes they're right.
I'd be interested to know why expecting parents to prepare when their children are going to church or travel on an airplane is unreasonable?
If we have a civil conversation perhaps what will emerge is information that is useful for everyone who flies.
Not sure I agree with all of this, but I definately agree "people today think they're heroes because they decided to have children".
The kind of derision and rage towards those who didn't is out of control. Go figure they lose their collective minds about "cat ladies".
I’m sick of people saying they are ok with the children in first class but with contingencies. The parent must do this to the child. They must do that. Smh
Isn't being part of society, whether you're a child or an adult, all about balancing your rights with the rights of others?
If adults aren't permitted to fly in first or any other class of service if they insist on screaming isn't it reasonable that a parent should be obligated to make preparations so a child for whom they are responsible is less likely to do so? And failing that have a plan for minimizing...
Isn't being part of society, whether you're a child or an adult, all about balancing your rights with the rights of others?
If adults aren't permitted to fly in first or any other class of service if they insist on screaming isn't it reasonable that a parent should be obligated to make preparations so a child for whom they are responsible is less likely to do so? And failing that have a plan for minimizing the effect on other passengers if they do?
Why is it unreasonable that the right to bring a child on an airplane requires being considerate of the effect that will have on others?
I would suggest that either position that children should never be permitted in first or always be allowed are both missing the point. Parents ought to consider whether their family is able to be socially responsible for where they are and make the decision whether to be there based on that.
Lucky appears to have done exactly that. Now parents have suggested he might want to consider traveling in B or even Y and regardless of the class of service having the child in a carseat is extremely helpful. A lot of people who read this blog have traveled with children so there is lot of knowledge out there that Lucky and anyone else who has young children might benefit from. Rather than insulting each other let's help Lucky and those readers by sharing what's been learned.