Should Babies Be Allowed In First Class? Of Course…

Should Babies Be Allowed In First Class? Of Course…

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The topic of whether or not babies should be allowed in first class is once again being discussed widely online, so I wanted to share my take on this. While I’m a new dad, my opinion on this hasn’t changed in years — yes, babies are (and should be) allowed in first class.

The argument against allowing babies in first class

The New York Times ran a story in its travel section this week, entitled “Babies in First Class: Which Side of the Aisle Are You On?” The story interviews some travelers (like the below), and the argument against babies in first class essentially comes down to people claiming that they pay extra for “relaxation” in first class:

“First class is a premium space where passengers pay extra for added comfort and relaxation. The presence of a baby, with their potential crying and fussing, would disrupt the peaceful atmosphere and ruin the experience for other passengers.”

This topic was even discussed on CNBC’s Squawk Box, with Andrew Ross Sorkin taking a strong stance that babies shouldn’t be allowed in first class. His argument is similar to all the arguments we see in favor of banning babies in first class — people pay so much extra money to sit in first class, and for that amount of money they should be able to expect relaxation.

Why babies should be allowed in first class

Let me start by acknowledging the obvious — virtually no one likes sitting next to or near someone else’s baby on an airplane. I mean, it would be kind of weird if you did. That applies no matter which cabin you’re in. Furthermore, most responsible parents dread the thought of their baby disturbing others on flights, and do everything they can to avoid it.

With that in mind, let me address a few points…

Babies are allowed in first class

While it’s clear that some people don’t want babies to be allowed in first class, the current reality is that babies of all ages are allowed in first class on virtually all airlines and in virtually all cabins. So it’s fine to “want” things to be different, but that’s just the reality. I’d also like Emirates to fly the A380 to Miami and un-devalue the Skywards frequent flyer program, but that’s unlikely to happen.

Babies are allowed in first class, plain and simple

Airlines don’t promise “relaxation” in first class

The fundamental argument that people make in favor of banning babies in first class is that airlines are promising “relaxation” in first class. That generally isn’t accurate. When you book a premium seat, you’re paying for more spaces, lounge access, priority services, and elevated food & drinks.

For example, look at the webpages describing the premium products of the “big three” US carriers, including American Flagship Business, Delta One, and United Polaris. Nowhere does it set any expectations about other passengers creating a relaxing environment.

Now, if we’d like to create new rules about etiquette in first class vs. in the rest of the plane, I wouldn’t necessarily be opposed to that. I’ve seen lots of adults in first class acting like children, so maybe we can ban them?

But I think people are missing the distinction between paying a premium for a bit more space on a commercial aircraft, and flying private. If you actually want to control the environment around you, then flying private is for you.

Airlines don’t promise relaxation in premium cabins

Parents with babies also pay to sit in first class

People like to argue that babies should be banned from first class because people in first class paid so much money to sit there. I think a reality check is in order here:

  • Parents who choose to sit in first class are also paying for that privilege in the same way
  • While international first class is expensive, domestic first class is often marginally more expensive than economy; you’re paying for some extra space, often at a reasonable premium, and nothing more
  • Parents with babies have lots of legitimate reasons that they too may want to sit in first class — it can be easier to keep your baby well behaved if you have a bit more space, and some parents might be concerned about their babies getting sick, and odds of that are minimized if you’re not as close to fellow travelers
Many parents value being in first class as well

Sound travels

On your standard domestic flight, there’s not much separation between first class and economy. Heck, there’s often not even a divider between cabins anymore. Sound travels, so realistically if you’re seated in first class and there’s a crying baby in the front of economy, you’ll hear it.

So is there really a difference if a baby is in the last row of first class or the first row of economy?

There often aren’t even bulkheads between cabins

Irresponsible parents are frustrating everywhere

Obviously people have all kinds of different parenting styles. I’m always impressed when I see parents who plan for their flights, recognizing the challenges that they may face. Of course a baby might scream a little bit, as many factors can impact that. However, we all hope that parents at least try to control their baby and minimize disruption to others.

Conversely, you see some parents — and they can be in first class or economy — who seem completely uninterested in taking care of their kids. People are understandably frustrated by this, regardless of where they’re seated.

Irresponsible parents are frustrating everywhere

Would I travel with our baby in first class?

Like I said, the above is my perspective on how things should be. While I’m a new parent, I’ve held the same beliefs on this for a very long time. That being said, to what extent would I feel comfortable traveling with our son in premium cabins?

In domestic first class, I’d have no qualms traveling with a baby. I don’t view domestic first class as being some ultra-exclusive experience. Rather I view it as paying a bit extra for more space.

That being said, I could see it being equally comfortable to just buy three seats in economy (rather than traveling with a baby as a lap infant in first class), because that way there would be somewhere to place a car seat. My decision would be based on what’s better in a particular situation based on price, how full a flight is, etc.

What about international flights in first & business class? Well, while I absolutely think babies should be allowed in these premium cabins, I’m not sure to what extent I’d feel comfortable traveling with a baby. Why? Because I don’t want to get side-eye the whole flight from premium travelers who think they paid for “relaxation” and a baby-free environment with their ticket, even though that doesn’t reflect reality.

I’d absolutely do everything in my power to disturb others as little as possible, but it’s almost inevitable that a baby will cry at least somewhat during a flight. So on some level I suppose the anti-baby peer pressure does work, even if there are no rule changes.

I’m not sure I’d feel comfortable traveling with a baby in international first class

Bottom line

Babies are allowed in first class, and babies should be allowed in first class. When you book a premium seat, you’re paying for more space and extra amenities. You’re not paying for your fellow passengers to be vetted, to make sure that they can “play the part” (if so, lots of adults should be banned as well).

Understandably no one wants to sit next to someone else’s baby on a plane, but unfortunately that’s just the reality of commercial aviation. If you want full control over the people seated near you, getting a private jet is your only option.

Where do you stand on the babies in first class debate?

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  1. AkFlyer Guest

    I don’t mind screaming babies. It’s not their fault. I can tune them out.
    What I do mind are spoiled toddlers throwing tantrums which the parents do not correct.

  2. Greg Guest

    I'd appreciate if Airlines would train their F/As to engage with babies rather than pretend they didn't exist (as they march down the aisle ignoring a screaming baby).

    I also wish Airlines would bring back chamomile tea bags. It has gotten so hard to find this on-board that I now bring my own...but not for me.

    The best way to calm a baby is to ask the F/A to make some chamomile tea....and then pour...

    I'd appreciate if Airlines would train their F/As to engage with babies rather than pretend they didn't exist (as they march down the aisle ignoring a screaming baby).

    I also wish Airlines would bring back chamomile tea bags. It has gotten so hard to find this on-board that I now bring my own...but not for me.

    The best way to calm a baby is to ask the F/A to make some chamomile tea....and then pour it over a cup of ice to cool it down....before pouring it into the baby bottle.

    It works!!!

  3. Jamie Guest

    Read BA First cabin. The word ‘relax’ is clearly stated. You may be paying the extra first class amount, but i am also entitled to be p1ssed because you have decided to likely have your screaming baby in the very small area to upset the other non baby carrying guests. Agree totally that noisy and unruly adults should also be banned, pretty pointless comment that as that’s obvious. I also am a father, son also,...

    Read BA First cabin. The word ‘relax’ is clearly stated. You may be paying the extra first class amount, but i am also entitled to be p1ssed because you have decided to likely have your screaming baby in the very small area to upset the other non baby carrying guests. Agree totally that noisy and unruly adults should also be banned, pretty pointless comment that as that’s obvious. I also am a father, son also, and I disagree wholeheartedly with you. I can afford to do it, maybe not private, but I do t do it, as I my view is that il upset a lot more people and there’s a very high chance that il upset others experience so il stick with premium of business class. That’s just my view, I’m not saying you are wrong I just feel it inconsiderate to do so. This will always be an agreed to disagree situation, but if I had a screaming baby, in my next flight in March, il deliberately get terribly drunk and prob be on a phone constantly to share my frustration which will be shared with everyone else. If you can’t beat em, join em!

  4. Julita Guest

    I very much think that people who choose to fly with children should be made to sit at the very back of the plane. Until children are of an age where they do not shriek and cry, (5+), it is rude and inconsiderate to subject others to that noise and chaos. Babies most definitely do not belong in first class nor in the lounge whilst people are waiting to board and desiring a quiet, calmer...

    I very much think that people who choose to fly with children should be made to sit at the very back of the plane. Until children are of an age where they do not shriek and cry, (5+), it is rude and inconsiderate to subject others to that noise and chaos. Babies most definitely do not belong in first class nor in the lounge whilst people are waiting to board and desiring a quiet, calmer experience. Kids and planes do not mix. Road trip or wait until kids are older to travel.

  5. Joaquin Guest

    Babies should not be flying until they are at least 3 years old, either in first, in business or in economy. I believe there should prohibit babies in airplanes because it is inflicting "cruel and unusual" punishment on the little ones. Countless adults have problems equalizing in a plane even when knowing techniques to overcome this (chewing, yawning, etc.) I have seen the pain that it causes to some people. Now realize that you are...

    Babies should not be flying until they are at least 3 years old, either in first, in business or in economy. I believe there should prohibit babies in airplanes because it is inflicting "cruel and unusual" punishment on the little ones. Countless adults have problems equalizing in a plane even when knowing techniques to overcome this (chewing, yawning, etc.) I have seen the pain that it causes to some people. Now realize that you are a 6 month old baby and suddenly your ears are about to explode? They respond by crying their lungs out. Babies are not the problem, parents that do not know or care about the comfort of their offprings are. Enough said.

  6. Bobby Guest

    I always feel sorry for infants on international flights. The change of pressure on their little eats must be painful. Many are taken on the plane because of their parent’s wanderlust for travel. If they really loved and cared for their child they would wait for the child to be older. I read all these comments justifying their trips and how the infants are “so good” with traveling. That thinking is so delusional.

  7. Randy Diamond

    Isn't Southwest going to start boarding familes first - but they will be restricted to the back part of the aircraft.

    Parents should get three seats so they can use to center seat to put the baby.

  8. Sarah Guest

    I just flew Dxb-Jfk in ek380 J. Was annoyed the entire flight by the man sitting in front of me snoring loudly for the entire flight. The two people on the side of him left and took seats in the mini cabin. Folks three or four seats away had trouble sleeping/relaxing because of his snoring. I didn’t most of that 14 hour flight at the bar trying to avoid the horrible noise. I’d take a...

    I just flew Dxb-Jfk in ek380 J. Was annoyed the entire flight by the man sitting in front of me snoring loudly for the entire flight. The two people on the side of him left and took seats in the mini cabin. Folks three or four seats away had trouble sleeping/relaxing because of his snoring. I didn’t most of that 14 hour flight at the bar trying to avoid the horrible noise. I’d take a crying baby over that anytime. At least a baby would sleep without snoring loudly part of the time. I find rowdy, drunk passengers to be more of an issue in J/F flights. If you want to ban babies because they might cry loudly then bad everyone who is loud and disturbing others, including persons like the one in the seat in front of me on that flight.

    1. Edgar Guest

      Well written Sarah!!! I hope some of the kids in this blog are reading this.

  9. Guillermo Guest

    Ben, this is simple. No rules but good judgement that applies on the ground is the same in the air. As a parent and now a new grandparent I think about others first and then myself. Nowhere would I like to interrupt or impact someone else's experience and I would also think how my own experience of enjoying a glass of wine or food would be impacted while paying premium prices or using miles.

  10. JetBlueFanboy New Member

    I think children have the same right to travel as everyone else, but, as you say, parents need to be responsible and show proper etiquette and consideration for other passengers. The only time you can complain (IMHO) is when their parents are inconsiderate and completely ignore their screaming babies.

    Besides, isn't it a bit hypocritical to complain about a screaming baby, when we all were just like them at one point?

    1. Jeffrey Guest

      Ugh...... some can some don't as child.

  11. Jeff Guest

    Babies should not be allowed on planes at all. There are significant health risks associated with flying and putting a vulnerable baby on a plane is a form of child abuse. It should be illegal

  12. David H Guest

    Sorry but I don’t agree, kids shouldn’t be in first class

    1. Edgar Guest

      That's because you're a kid yourself and need your space

    2. Jeffrey Guest

      You are spoiled entitled brat beeyotch. Get lost troll.

  13. DTSB Guest

    I tell young misbehaving children with irresponsible parents if they don't sit quietly tomorrow mommy and daddy will wake up dead.

    Only had to do it twice, but it worked.

    1. Jeffrey Guest

      Yikes!!! That is some tough love right there. Did you get punched in the face????

    2. DTSB Guest

      Nope. That would earn the fist a steep lawsuit and a no fly list.

      However, I do say it sweetly with a nice smile.

  14. Lina Guest

    Have flown in business domestically and to the US quite a few times with my toddler, and internationally (to Europe and Australia). Sometimes we get the stink eye but most people compliment my son after (luckily for me, he is usually a very good flyer!). Flying business class with a baby/toddler makes it so much easier that I wouldn't hesitate to do so when I have the opportunity.

  15. MikeyDoesntLikeIt Guest

    If I have to listen to someone else's noise, then why shouldn't I also be able to yell, scream, cry, or play loud music? After all, I paid the same price you did. I'll tell you why: BECAUSE it's disrespectful; that's why. Why don't airlines put all the people with children in one section? BECAUSE the parents would be insane; that's why. Same goes for me having to listen to your kid cry or kick...

    If I have to listen to someone else's noise, then why shouldn't I also be able to yell, scream, cry, or play loud music? After all, I paid the same price you did. I'll tell you why: BECAUSE it's disrespectful; that's why. Why don't airlines put all the people with children in one section? BECAUSE the parents would be insane; that's why. Same goes for me having to listen to your kid cry or kick the back of my seat. Bring your baby if you are so inclined, but you will absolutely be listening to my music at the same volume as your kid's cries. For those that say I should charter a jet, I would say that the offender who needs special treatment should be the one with the charter responsibility. If you have a child who has the potential for disrupting others (and let's face it, they all do), then it sounds like you are the one who needs special accommodation. I didn't bring my child on the flight to disturb you; you made the decision knowing full-well that your child is incapable of controlling themselves, yet I had no part in the decision to have the child; so why should I be subjected to the child's disruptions? Get a chartered jet yourself, entitled parents.

    1. Growup Guest

      "why shouldn't I also be able to yell, scream, cry".. because you are not an infant?

  16. Jeremy Guest

    Earlier this year we took our 5 yo in Lufthansa First (somehow got 3 Lifemiles seats for FRA-EWR). She had the absolute time of her life and still talks about getting to sit in the nose...FRA is currently our home airport so also got to experience the FCT with her. They didn't have kids-sized PJs but the oversized ones were exceptionally cute. After the flight we were invited up to the flight deck, which is a rarity these days.

  17. Jordan Gold

    Of course NOT, but nice job trying to preempt all of the travel blogs coming...

    No kids under 4 in First or business.

    Many years ago I was in VS Upper Class in the 747 nose. The parents knew they had shit kids, so they sat many rows back and left the four closer to the front. The two youngest ones were absolutely awful. Halfway across the Atlantic, a fight broke out. Some businesswoman next...

    Of course NOT, but nice job trying to preempt all of the travel blogs coming...

    No kids under 4 in First or business.

    Many years ago I was in VS Upper Class in the 747 nose. The parents knew they had shit kids, so they sat many rows back and left the four closer to the front. The two youngest ones were absolutely awful. Halfway across the Atlantic, a fight broke out. Some businesswoman next to me lost it. She shouted at the parents to parent their kids. Told them it was obvious they did not want to seat near them, so they could enjoy the flight. She tore them a new one for about 5 mins, it was great. Made everyone happy. LHR-JFK is primarily business people in, shock, business class. For the rest of the flight, this woman was watching the whole family like a hawk. It was insane. Most people thanked her, or nodded in approval.

  18. Andy Diamond

    First of all, do babies really have to travel? I grew up travelling quite a lot - but I really only started travelling when I was about 5 years old on the back seat of my parent’s car and about 9 year old on planes. It could have been one year before, but really no need much earlier.

  19. Carlos Ba Guest

    I find it so funny when people think their opinion on issues like this matters at all. Grow up.

  20. Michael Guest

    So glad you’re on the car seat bandwagon. For domestic it’s so much better than buying into first class (as so many of my mates do/did. Kids are so much happier being strapped in.

    Nearly everybody plonks on noise cancelling headphone when flying these days I don’t see the issue.

  21. Doha New Member

    I come down on the very hard 'no" side to babies in premium cabins, but the most strongly against toddlers in those cabins. Fundamentally, traveling with a very young child is an extremely stressful experience for almost all parents, and whereas the parent certainly has the "right" to travel how they wish, what about my rights, as someone that doesn't want to listen to either a screaming infant or worse, have to put up with...

    I come down on the very hard 'no" side to babies in premium cabins, but the most strongly against toddlers in those cabins. Fundamentally, traveling with a very young child is an extremely stressful experience for almost all parents, and whereas the parent certainly has the "right" to travel how they wish, what about my rights, as someone that doesn't want to listen to either a screaming infant or worse, have to put up with a toddler running up and down the aisle, jumping on seats or having a tantrum? I pay for a premium product and expect to be able to take full advantage of what I am buying, namely a flat bed and quiet cabin. Would I go to a top restaurant and be happy being served fast food. No, obviously not-and I recognize the overly simplistic nature of my metaphor.

    I traveled with my younger children very, very frequently, but we sat at the back of economy, because I did not want to bother J or F passengers with toddler shenanigans-and there were plenty of them, as they were normal kids. I felt a sense consideration to others.

    Having spoken with many coworkers over the years, the most ardent "yes to kids in premium" parents have all (bar none) become complete "no little kids in premium" once their kids were older.......pot, kettle.....

    Finally, I wish one airline would have the guts to offer a "no passengers under 8" flight option. Say once or twice a week. They could charge double the fare and I am certain people would pay.

    1. staradmiral Guest

      " but we sat at the back of economy, because I did not want to bother J or F passengers"
      Not sure why J or F passengers are more deserving of quiet compared to economy passengers. That's pretty classist. having the child upfront would affect the least number of people actually,

  22. beerandcheese Guest

    If this comment thread is an accurate sample of OMAAT readers, I can see why the quality has decreased and the clickbait has increased the past few year…

  23. Den Guest

    I brought my daughter up front many times when she was under 2 years old. Oh the stories we would have missed as a family if i would have kept her out of first class. :)

  24. ORD_Is_My_Second_Home Member

    The answer is simple: no. Children under 12 should not be allowed on planes at all.

  25. Jared Guest

    I have been flying since I was three months old. So far as I have been told, I was always an easy flyer since exposed to it from a young age. I had good parenting so my siblings and I knew how to behave. Most of the times, I have no issues with kids or babies. Babies cry. If babies don't cry, who will?

    My biggest pain are the loud boorish "adults".

  26. No2Kids Guest

    I have no interest in sitting next to any children. The “well a baby is going to cry” thing is just the entitled parent’s excuse. Having children doesn’t make you special or entitle you to a damn thing. Taking your screaming brat as a free lap thing in a premium cabin is just entitled parents who think having produced spawn means were now all subject to your special bundle of scream.

    How about children-specific...

    I have no interest in sitting next to any children. The “well a baby is going to cry” thing is just the entitled parent’s excuse. Having children doesn’t make you special or entitle you to a damn thing. Taking your screaming brat as a free lap thing in a premium cabin is just entitled parents who think having produced spawn means were now all subject to your special bundle of scream.

    How about children-specific flights? Y’all and your spawn can fly together on one loud, miserable plane full of other parents and their special creations.

    Barking, unruly pets? Are those fine too? Should we all be subject to unlimited free lap pets who bark and meow and caw the entire flight?

    Sorry, but your children are just unruly pets. We shouldn’t be subjected to them.

    1. LuisRPM Member

      @No2Kids:

      You calling kids "unruly pets", "special creations", "special bundle of scream", "spawn", "screaming brats" makes me thinks that your parents didn´t love you at all when you were their "unruly pet"

    2. Julita Guest

      I truly agree with an d appreciate your comments. Thank you.

  27. Paul Guest

    We flew back to London from LA with a three week old baby in business (we had our son via surrogacy and live in London); it was a breeze. He only woke up twice and was easy company. The folks traveling in the cabin were very nice and had kids themselves and were helpful on trying to reassure us as new parents.

    We also had a 4 year old and 6 year old next...

    We flew back to London from LA with a three week old baby in business (we had our son via surrogacy and live in London); it was a breeze. He only woke up twice and was easy company. The folks traveling in the cabin were very nice and had kids themselves and were helpful on trying to reassure us as new parents.

    We also had a 4 year old and 6 year old next to us who were also very well behaved all flight.

    We were grateful to be in business where each of my husband and I could get 5 hours of sleep while the other one minded our son.

    I guess it's a bit of a crap shoot (sometimes literally) as kids are unpredictable, but kids generally will sleep at some point in a long flight.

    The worst fellow travellers on international long haul are the party hard crowd of adults.

    The good news is with the advent of noise cancelling headphones, when combined with an eye mask, it's pretty easy to screen out unwanted mayhem.

    In the meantime, sorry if we're seated next to you on your next flight!

  28. DrewT Member

    Yes, obviously babies should be allowed in any cabin.

    I was in QSuites back in August, and the entire taxi out for departure there was a baby across the asile crying it's heart out. I was a little frustrated at the prospects of a 14 hr flight with that, and felt bad for the mother who was trying desperately to calm the baby.

    As soon as we got in the air, the baby was silent....

    Yes, obviously babies should be allowed in any cabin.

    I was in QSuites back in August, and the entire taxi out for departure there was a baby across the asile crying it's heart out. I was a little frustrated at the prospects of a 14 hr flight with that, and felt bad for the mother who was trying desperately to calm the baby.

    As soon as we got in the air, the baby was silent. Didn't hear it for the rest of the flight, had forgotten about it really. As soon as we landed in Doha, baby started crying again (yes baby, I was also sad, the rosé champagne was very good, way better than what's in the lounge). Future AvGeek there I think!!

  29. MKR Guest

    There’s nothing worse than an adult, capable of rational thought, able to purchase and use ANC headphones, able to work on their own time (not during public transportation which is …public transportation), who whines about a baby on a plane (in premium or coach). Compared to adults, babies have zero control over their environments and little control over their growing bodies. Might they cry? Yes. So what? If you are the adult and there are...

    There’s nothing worse than an adult, capable of rational thought, able to purchase and use ANC headphones, able to work on their own time (not during public transportation which is …public transportation), who whines about a baby on a plane (in premium or coach). Compared to adults, babies have zero control over their environments and little control over their growing bodies. Might they cry? Yes. So what? If you are the adult and there are children on board—literally—act your age. I am tired of this “debate.” If a nearby baby is upset, or moving around, lend a hand to the parents. Ask if you can help. If you don’t want to offer help, put your headphones (and big boy pants) on, and shut up.

    1. LuisRPM Member

      Good! This is how a mature an emphatic adults sounds!

  30. Emily Guest

    Yes. What a stupid and insensitive question.

    I fly premium for the peace and quiet, but I am aware that ultimately an aircraft is a public space. If I wanted to fly in complete comfort, I would charter my jet.

    If we started choosing who should or should not fly (premium or otherwise), then that list could be long.

  31. Surfdoc Guest

    Babies should definitely NOT be allowed in first class!! Parents and babies should be sequestered in a "baby" section. A recent Delta economy + flight had a baby crying for 4 of the 5 hour flight!!

  32. Stuart Guest

    I don't remember when I was 2 and screaming in First class. Not even sure I was there. It certainly didn't shape me. I might have even been in economy. I think I was actually. I guess I turned out ok?

    Who said babies shouldn't fly? Just fly coach. It's simple. The experience will not be different for them. I doubt the babies are assessing the thread count of the duvet and critiquing the...

    I don't remember when I was 2 and screaming in First class. Not even sure I was there. It certainly didn't shape me. I might have even been in economy. I think I was actually. I guess I turned out ok?

    Who said babies shouldn't fly? Just fly coach. It's simple. The experience will not be different for them. I doubt the babies are assessing the thread count of the duvet and critiquing the on-board wine list. They will be just fine with a lap and some milk. And parents need to understand that this is the price of the first 2-3 years. Pay up. Not at my expense.

    Bottom line...baby is fine. Parents are the selfish ones who just want more free space for baby at the cost of another's comfort. Nope. Just because you have a baby does not mean you are entitled. Go sit in economy for the first few years. You will survive.

    1. Jeffrey Guest

      What is wrong with people with kids asking for special treatment???

  33. BK Guest

    Some babies / toddlers absolutely should not be allowed in premium cabins, or any airline period. On a recent flight had two babies crawling up and down the aisle in First and shouting the whole flight, even when the seatbelt sign was on. Lifetime ban for the children and their parents would be fair.

  34. iamhere Guest

    Business/first is a premium space but there is nothing by the airline that makes it an adult only space or prohibits young children. Agree with the women in the segment then how do you define baby or child. This said you can disturb people in economy just as much as business/first. Sometimes the adults act worse than the children. The woman is right the airlines would charge and limit you if they thought it was...

    Business/first is a premium space but there is nothing by the airline that makes it an adult only space or prohibits young children. Agree with the women in the segment then how do you define baby or child. This said you can disturb people in economy just as much as business/first. Sometimes the adults act worse than the children. The woman is right the airlines would charge and limit you if they thought it was worth it it would. Ultimately if you do not see kids often in business/first so what difference does it make. You're not just paying extra for the space, but also for the more comfortable environment (space, seat, service, etc).

  35. Sandy Needham Guest

    The real question is not "Should babies be allowed in First Class", but, "What restrictions should be put on babies in aircraft?"
    Should biz class and first class passengers have their nannies take the babies in economy class? Is that fair?
    How about having "baby free" flights, so the rest of us ordinary mortals can sleep on a plane and there are restrictions on the (selfish?) people who would have their non-fare paying...

    The real question is not "Should babies be allowed in First Class", but, "What restrictions should be put on babies in aircraft?"
    Should biz class and first class passengers have their nannies take the babies in economy class? Is that fair?
    How about having "baby free" flights, so the rest of us ordinary mortals can sleep on a plane and there are restrictions on the (selfish?) people who would have their non-fare paying baby ruin the flight for 300+ fare-paying passengers by screaming all night?
    btw - have you noticed that babies on Asian airlines seem to make less noise than western babies - but that is a dangerously fraught subject I suspect!

  36. blue2000 Guest

    We were flying home from Europe one summer in the bulkhead in economy on Swiss. Right before boarding closed, two sisters (one who had flown to Europe from the US West coast) boarded...with two 10 month old twins. The sister who lives in Belgium was flying to see her American parents for the first time since the pandemic. We were able to shuffle and give them 3 seats rather than 2, and I sat next...

    We were flying home from Europe one summer in the bulkhead in economy on Swiss. Right before boarding closed, two sisters (one who had flown to Europe from the US West coast) boarded...with two 10 month old twins. The sister who lives in Belgium was flying to see her American parents for the first time since the pandemic. We were able to shuffle and give them 3 seats rather than 2, and I sat next to my kids. I felt so terribly for those adults...they did their best for the 12 hours to SFO. If they had extra space and room it in business class it would have been easier -- for them. If we believe that babies have the right to fly...anywhere on the plane that is easier for them is easier for the rest of the passenger.s

  37. 9volt Member

    Children are the last group where it's still okay to openly discriminate against them, say disparaging remarks, and make sweeping generalizations about them without facing any real repercussions.

    We live in a time now where we're not allowed to discriminate against any other group. I wonder when the woke mob will cape up for them like they do for everyone else.

    1. Ben L. Diamond

      People who pepper their whining with weird phrases like "the woke mob" never realize how bizarre they sound to normal people.

    2. Andrew Guest

      Come on. To compare babies to invidious discrimination of persecuted racial or ethnic groups is rich. This is such an asinine debate. Yes, babies will always be allowed in first class, and we have to deal. Doesnt mean we have to like it either.

    3. Sel, D. Guest

      Still okay to openly discriminate against white people, men, and especially white men.

  38. Josh Guest

    For any flight over 3 hours... Nope. Definitely a big nope.

    A screaming baby disturbs ALL the people around it, and can make their flight an absolute hell. By putting a screaming baby in first class, you are trading the additional cost of 20 people for the comfort of one.

    Trying to claim that airlines aren't selling a more peaceful flight in first class is misleading at best. International first class flights especially have...

    For any flight over 3 hours... Nope. Definitely a big nope.

    A screaming baby disturbs ALL the people around it, and can make their flight an absolute hell. By putting a screaming baby in first class, you are trading the additional cost of 20 people for the comfort of one.

    Trying to claim that airlines aren't selling a more peaceful flight in first class is misleading at best. International first class flights especially have seats that are CLEARLY designed for rest and sleep. Something you cannot get while a baby is screaming in your ear.

    Does the fact that the baby is at a distance make a difference? It sure does. 100%. As anyone who has ever sat in front of a newborn knows.

    Why anyone would torture their baby with all the pressure changes that occur during a long flight is beyond me. Don't travel long distance by air. Just don't. do. it. And, if you do, stay out of first class.

    I have two children, and I would NEVER have taken them on any flight of more than a couple of hours when they were children. And I CERTAINLY would not have brought them into first class.

    Some people seem to think that the fact that they have a child makes them more important than everyone else on the face of the planet. Reality check: You're not.

  39. altadoc Guest

    I'd encourage you to take that kiddo overseas in business class. We flew with our seven-month-old to Spain earlier this year. I was nervous at first about him disturbing other passengers. The extra space and proximity to the bathrooms were a gift. It made getting up to soothe him so much easier.

    And the flight attendants on Air France were stellar. They brought him a blanket and toys. They even heated up his baby food....

    I'd encourage you to take that kiddo overseas in business class. We flew with our seven-month-old to Spain earlier this year. I was nervous at first about him disturbing other passengers. The extra space and proximity to the bathrooms were a gift. It made getting up to soothe him so much easier.

    And the flight attendants on Air France were stellar. They brought him a blanket and toys. They even heated up his baby food. They made this an exceptional and easy experience for us.

    The other piece about flying in first/business is the extra luggage. It makes it much easier with all the crap you gotta bring with a child.

  40. Ell Guest

    It’s crazy how some folk forget they were once babies themselves. Certainly I am not taking my one year old to restaurants of a certain caliber, to the spa, etc., but I also believe in having him travel the world with us to be exposed to different experiences and cultures and help shape him as a person. By the time he was 10 months he had been on a dozen domestic flights and was rarely...

    It’s crazy how some folk forget they were once babies themselves. Certainly I am not taking my one year old to restaurants of a certain caliber, to the spa, etc., but I also believe in having him travel the world with us to be exposed to different experiences and cultures and help shape him as a person. By the time he was 10 months he had been on a dozen domestic flights and was rarely a disturbance as his needs were attended to and he has a generally happy disposition. We’ll be taking a transatlantic flight in 2023 and the choice was 3 seats economy or 2 in business and we chose business for the space. As long as one is a prepared parent in terms of diversions or emotional support I see no issue. There’s some unpredictability, sure, and it’s not always easy, but I suppose that’s parenting anywhere. To those who disagree, put on your headphones or fly private.

    1. Jeffrey Guest

      Not every child is as well behaved as you are. Considered yourself lucky.

  41. Amt Guest

    Really, they don’t promise relaxation… Every piece of marketing I’ve seen for first class begs to differ.

    Lufthansa
    Convert your seat into a fully flat bed and ask our crew to make up the sheets for a restful night's sleep.

    BA
    Here, British heritage meets contemporary design, letting you work in peace, watch a film, or stretch out and fall asleep.

    Qantas
    Your expansive armchair awaits you. In subtle colours and calming...

    Really, they don’t promise relaxation… Every piece of marketing I’ve seen for first class begs to differ.

    Lufthansa
    Convert your seat into a fully flat bed and ask our crew to make up the sheets for a restful night's sleep.

    BA
    Here, British heritage meets contemporary design, letting you work in peace, watch a film, or stretch out and fall asleep.

    Qantas
    Your expansive armchair awaits you. In subtle colours and calming tones, you'll find it an easy place to relax.

    Emirates
    Convert your seat into a fully flat bed and ask our crew to make up the sheets for a restful night's sleep.

    Qatar
    Settle into your seat and enjoy unparalleled comfort and complete privacy. Our spacious First Class is designed for you to feel well-rested and refreshed throughout your journey.

    Cathay
    EVERYTHING IN FIRST COMES TOGETHER IN
    PERFECT HARMONY TO CREATE A REFINED,
    HONSTIC TRAVEL EXPERIENCE.

    JAL
    Step in and make yourself at home in our specially designed First Class seat. A peaceful sanctuary that makes you forget you're sailing high above the clouds.

    1. Alex Guest

      You forgot the United Polaris “Aaa to Zzz” campaign.

  42. Guy Guest

    sorry- as a long-haul first class flight attendant last century, the most consistent problem was with noisy/unrestrained infants/children disturbing other full-fare paying pax- including issues with some very prominent celebrities. If you can afford a seat in P/C then put the kids with the nanny in Y/C...

    1. staradmiral Guest

      Celebrities are not more important than anyone seated in economy. They are NOT more deserving of peace and quiet than any economy passenger.

  43. UR Guest

    Rename Business class as Premium class, full stop! Anybody who can afford can/should fly Premium class!

  44. Petri Diamond

    We have been flying with our babies from the age of 2 months on intl F, where everyone gets their own, paid seat. (Weirdly, quite many ff programs will not credit miles to children under two, even when flyinging on fully paid tickets.) Children learn very quickly how to behave, a 3 years old can eat with fork and knife, as well as speak more than one language. We have 6 kids, so often we...

    We have been flying with our babies from the age of 2 months on intl F, where everyone gets their own, paid seat. (Weirdly, quite many ff programs will not credit miles to children under two, even when flyinging on fully paid tickets.) Children learn very quickly how to behave, a 3 years old can eat with fork and knife, as well as speak more than one language. We have 6 kids, so often we have been the only ones travelling in first. But, I do not recall anyone giving any side-eye, ever.

  45. Hank Guest

    Missed opportunity to promote a biz plat which gives Dell credits to obtain Bose noice canceling headphones.

    If you think babies don't belong in premium cabins you are a mark who was tricked by airline marketing.

  46. dander Guest

    Babies and toddlers up to 2 don't bother me, its the brats that kick seats, or play with the tray table, and the parents that put their unruly bastards in economy to torment people while they relax in another class

  47. Bob Guest

    I would be the first to tell you how much I love children especially on planes "heavy sarcasm"

    But I recognize that some people have to travel with babies and quite often they are stressed by the stress they are dishing out. I feel one can't be that entitled to say I pay a lot of money therefore no children, no migrants, no fats. Otherwise, I have a long list of people I would rather...

    I would be the first to tell you how much I love children especially on planes "heavy sarcasm"

    But I recognize that some people have to travel with babies and quite often they are stressed by the stress they are dishing out. I feel one can't be that entitled to say I pay a lot of money therefore no children, no migrants, no fats. Otherwise, I have a long list of people I would rather not fly with. And then where does it end? I pay a lot on my rent therefore no baby neighbors? Quite honestly on a plane, noise canceling headphones is all out takes to get everybody to stop b*tchin. Babies is a lot less of an issue for me than say a 4 year old screaming and throwing things all over and the parents completely oblivious. Those parents should be publicly shamed and then sterilized.

    1. Jeffrey Guest

      And blacklisted. Sterilized in what ways?

  48. magice Gold

    Here are 2 things I never understand about people and babies-in-J-or-F:

    1) Why can't we treat babies like humans?
    2) Why can't we treat economy passengers like humans?

    For example, during the good time of 2020-2022, we have multiple passengers being a d***s on airplanes in general, and in premium section in particular. There is no calls for "let's ban men from business class because, OMG what if they start arguing?"

    Babies, last I...

    Here are 2 things I never understand about people and babies-in-J-or-F:

    1) Why can't we treat babies like humans?
    2) Why can't we treat economy passengers like humans?

    For example, during the good time of 2020-2022, we have multiple passengers being a d***s on airplanes in general, and in premium section in particular. There is no calls for "let's ban men from business class because, OMG what if they start arguing?"

    Babies, last I checked, are humans. They deserve the be treated as humans. Yes, there are certain expectations for humans in public space (in this case, the airplane). Yes, if they are fussy, their parents should be handled as if another human is being annoying. No, that doesn't mean we assume all babies are fussy all the time. They are humans!

    The 2nd is more important. Yes, you pay more for 1st class or J in international. No, that doesn't make you better than people in economy. Why should nuisances be sent there? Stop and think about it. Are J and F customers lords of the airplane? Statistically speaking, economy section has more babies. They already have their own issues. Why send extra?

    It's insulting when these overly entitled people open their mounts. Seriously. Yes, if a child is a nuisance, their parents should be held accountable. No, you ain't lords of anyone. If you have enough money to buy these expensive tickets, buy a noise cancelling headphone also.

    1. Josh Guest

      This makes no sense. If babies were treated as other humans, the plane would be turned around and the baby would be forcibly removed after screaming at the top of their lungs for 10 minutes.

      No airline would ever stand for a grown man screaming incoherently, and spitting food all over other passengers. It just wouldn't happen.

  49. BenjaminGuttery Diamond

    Ben, people are not just paying for extra space in FC/BC. They are paying for MANY other things. You are correct that certain things are not guaranteed or included in the fare, but don't then whiddle down the others sides argument to just "space". You and others sell us all on the other benefits of flying in the front everyday.

  50. JWags Guest

    The number of people who clearly don't have children that think they should be able to legislate how others travel with their family and their funds is amusing and arrogant. You don't own your premium cabin. If parents want to pay the fare, then deal wiht it.

    Terribly misbehaved children shouldnt be on in First Class or planes in general. We can all agree with that. But condeming entire groups of people, like children/babies, because...

    The number of people who clearly don't have children that think they should be able to legislate how others travel with their family and their funds is amusing and arrogant. You don't own your premium cabin. If parents want to pay the fare, then deal wiht it.

    Terribly misbehaved children shouldnt be on in First Class or planes in general. We can all agree with that. But condeming entire groups of people, like children/babies, because of bad apples is as silly as saying Indians/Cameroonians/British shouldn't fly premium class on a certain airline because of unruly or terrible behavior by members of that group.

    Ive sat next to many children in domestic first. Ive sat next to a lap infant in business back from HK to the US. Nary an issue.

    My son is 3 months old. We took a test 30 min roundtrip flight last month to get him accustomed. No issues. Then flew roundtrip, in first class, from ORD to TPA for the holidays last week. The flight back actually had 2 lap infants in first and there wasn't a peep. Cause both my son and the other infant were taken care of and prepared.

    Should we flag parents who have disruptive and problematic children on repeated flights? Maybe. But blanket rules on babies/kids is just dumb. Its just like service animals or pets on a plane. Well behaved ones are nearly invisible, the bad ones are terrible. Worry about parents, not kids.

  51. John Guest

    According to the FAA: “The safest place for your child under the age of two on a U.S. airplane is in approved child restraint system (CRS) or device, not in your lap. Your arms aren't capable of holding your in-lap child securely, especially during unexpected turbulence, which is the number one cause of pediatric injuries on an airplane.” I expect it’s more comfortable for the parent and less expensive to buy a first class seat...

    According to the FAA: “The safest place for your child under the age of two on a U.S. airplane is in approved child restraint system (CRS) or device, not in your lap. Your arms aren't capable of holding your in-lap child securely, especially during unexpected turbulence, which is the number one cause of pediatric injuries on an airplane.” I expect it’s more comfortable for the parent and less expensive to buy a first class seat and carry the baby on the lap than to buy two coach seats, but the baby is better off in the car seat. I’ve seen lots of babies in the front cabin, but never in car seats.

  52. Donna Diamond

    Normally, babies and toddlers do not cause any problems in any cabin but, as a mother of two grown sons, I can attest that air travel with a sick infant is a nightmare for all involved, the baby, the parent(s) and nearby passengers and crew. Long haul flights with a sick baby will test any parent’s limits.

  53. BookLvr Gold

    I am a parent and I have ambivalent feelings on this one.

    With current rules, parents who brings a baby into first class are ABSOLUTELY within their rights. And I hate how many people judge the heck out of people with children when they are trying to parent to the best of their abilities.

    On the other hand, here in the United States, we have apparently decided there are almost no spaces that are to...

    I am a parent and I have ambivalent feelings on this one.

    With current rules, parents who brings a baby into first class are ABSOLUTELY within their rights. And I hate how many people judge the heck out of people with children when they are trying to parent to the best of their abilities.

    On the other hand, here in the United States, we have apparently decided there are almost no spaces that are to be adult-only spaces short of bars and strip clubs. I love kids and generally consider them to be a plus factor in visiting many places like a zoo or an aquarium or a park; these spaces are built with kids in mind, and their delight enhances everyone's enjoyment.

    This being said...should babies and toddlers be at PG-13 or R movies? (People bring them!) Should they be allowed at every single restaurant, even multi-course restaurants where service may take place over two to three hours? I do think there is room in our world for some spaces reserved for children ages 8+ and adults, or for adults only. My husband remembers fondly the first time he was allowed to enter a fancy restaurant with his grandfather and being instructed on appropriate behavior in that space. I think we want to be a child-friendly society, but I don't think that has to mean that all restaurants need to have the environment of Applebee's.

    Now where exactly business and first class cabins fit into this equation I am not sure, but I feel like airlines should be free to set their own policies.

    I would also love to see an airline experiment with specialty flights aimed specifically at parents and young kids in markets where that is merited, e.g., flights to Orlando.

    My child is now 20 years old and in college, and my attitudes may be hopelessly old-fashioned, but...I chose not to fly with my baby until she was about 18 months-2 years, even though my husband's parents lived on the opposite coast of the U.S.. In addition to the potential crying factor, her pediatrician was of the opinion that newborn babies should have minimal exposure to the world during flu season. (And she was an October baby.) The pediatrician felt even running errands with a baby should be avoided as much as possible.

    These early restrictions did not curb her sense of adventure. In the last year and a half, she has been to France (August 2021), Spain (May-June 2022), Jordan (June-August 2022), and is about to leave for Egypt (January-June 2023).

    Good luck, parents of little ones. It is a difficult challenge, figuring out what is best to do with little kids.

  54. NSS Guest

    No is the answer to the question posed in the headline. Of course not.

  55. Thiago777 New Member

    As a libertarian, I say yes! As a consumer, I say absolutely not! Honestly can’t parents take a break from luxury traveling for 2 years while their babies learn to not shite their pants?

  56. Kevin B Guest

    I literally flew first class this morning with a new born, we had no choice but to fly from Texas to Washington because it was for an adoption and we wanted to get home. He was a little angel on the flight, he got a little fussy once and we fed him and he immediately calmed down.

    I see no issues with Babies in first or business class. It is much easier for parents...

    I literally flew first class this morning with a new born, we had no choice but to fly from Texas to Washington because it was for an adoption and we wanted to get home. He was a little angel on the flight, he got a little fussy once and we fed him and he immediately calmed down.

    I see no issues with Babies in first or business class. It is much easier for parents to travel in business or first with a baby, more space means a lot, and being rich does not entitle you to anything other than the better seat and increased service.

    If you want a baby free experience buy out the whole damn plane.

  57. mitchdb1 Guest

    Over the last 12 months, I've taken my 1 yr old on 18 flights this year. She doesn't scream or fuss at all, mostly just sleeps the whole time. She's chill as a cucumber, but there are times when she's fussy and I have to do the "calm the f down" dance down the aisle to the galley until she's fine. This includes the times when we fly business class to/from europe where she likes...

    Over the last 12 months, I've taken my 1 yr old on 18 flights this year. She doesn't scream or fuss at all, mostly just sleeps the whole time. She's chill as a cucumber, but there are times when she's fussy and I have to do the "calm the f down" dance down the aisle to the galley until she's fine. This includes the times when we fly business class to/from europe where she likes to drink my champagne. I'm all for babies in first class, they're babies they don't know any better. Its the parents that may not deserve to be sitting up in first. If you can't handle a baby in first class, maybe its time to grow up and be an adult, or just down a few double vodkas (bc they're free) and a xanax.

    1. anon Guest

      "This includes the times when we fly business class to/from europe where she likes to drink my champagne" lolwut

  58. gstork Guest

    As a parent, I am a bit conflicted about this topic.

    But I am clear on this: when I fly, I don't want to sit anywhere near a baby, as you have no idea what to expect. I have been on flights where a baby seated immediately behind me wailed nearly the entire flight (and I was utterly miserable). I have been on flights where a baby was just 2 seats away, and was...

    As a parent, I am a bit conflicted about this topic.

    But I am clear on this: when I fly, I don't want to sit anywhere near a baby, as you have no idea what to expect. I have been on flights where a baby seated immediately behind me wailed nearly the entire flight (and I was utterly miserable). I have been on flights where a baby was just 2 seats away, and was cute, happy and barely made a peep. It's the absolute unpredictability that makes it too much to accept.

    Coming home from Paris on a nonstop AF flight to LAX earlier this year, we were seated near the front of the business cabin, and a mother arrived with her baby and sat 2 rows in front in the bassinet seat. I was alarmed while I considered the possibilities of a horrible 12 hours ahead of me. As it turned out, the baby slept nearly the entire flight, barely cried at all, and I really enjoyed watching the wonderful AF cabin crew turn the counter area ahead of the mother's seat into a bassinet.

    I never traveled on planes with my child when she was a baby, but from age 5 onwards we did do quite a bit of domestic and international travel, nearly always in premium cabins. The expressions of other passengers when we took our seats with a young child revealed the same hesitation I feel when I board a flight and see a baby seated nearby. You never know what to expect (which I guess the same could be said of any passenger... but kids are a lot more of a wild card in my experience).

  59. nazila Guest

    I have a friend whose husband is a professor and his contract stipulated that all his international flying be booked in J or F. This included his family if they joined him. My friend said it was not a ton of fun and she sometimes wanted to book in coach because her daughter wanted nothing more than to walk up and down the aisles and she didn't want to disturb others. I would say, do...

    I have a friend whose husband is a professor and his contract stipulated that all his international flying be booked in J or F. This included his family if they joined him. My friend said it was not a ton of fun and she sometimes wanted to book in coach because her daughter wanted nothing more than to walk up and down the aisles and she didn't want to disturb others. I would say, do what makes you the most comfortable --- if you are going to be stressed because you may need to comfort your child and deal with dirty looks from other passengers, then maybe this isn't the right time to fly in F. Kids are kids, sometimes they get sick, sometimes they are bored, but they usually don't discuss MLM or how awesome a sales rep they are in a very loud voice, so I find them more appealing as seat opponents.

    1. anon Guest

      Contract? Most profs pay for their travel out of their research grants

  60. Christian Guest

    Children belong in premium cabins once they can reasonably communicate, feed themselves with a little help and sit quietly while reading/playing a game/watching tv or a movie. There are a number of places where babies and small children don't belong, and until they can meet the above criteria, premium cabins are one of those places.

  61. Jeffrey Guest

    Only when they are well behaved, which in reality they aren't.

  62. Seasoned Senior Traveler Guest

    It's bad enough First Class has diminished in space and comfort... for what we're paying, we do not need the additional stress of a baby crying and more. Sorry parents, please have some consideration for our treasured quiet moments in First Class travel.

    1. JWags Guest

      Like others, are you talking about some ultra premium Air France/Emirates style First Class? Cause otherwise domestic first class and most business class is nicer, but not some glorious glamorous quiet experience.

      People who act like flying first class domestically on Delta/UA/AA, or business within Europe, is some blissful pristine lap of luxury that should not be spoiled is delusional.

  63. Kim Guest

    Having flown from United in first class yesterday from Liberia to Houston I suddenly have an opinion about this.
    Backstory: Flew TO Liberia from ORD 10 days earlier with my my son, dil and my 9 month old granddaughter. We kept her busy with a bottle, snacks, newish play objects and an ipad loaded with disney. Overall a success, but it was some work.
    We were in economy. Upgrades did not clear.

    ...

    Having flown from United in first class yesterday from Liberia to Houston I suddenly have an opinion about this.
    Backstory: Flew TO Liberia from ORD 10 days earlier with my my son, dil and my 9 month old granddaughter. We kept her busy with a bottle, snacks, newish play objects and an ipad loaded with disney. Overall a success, but it was some work.
    We were in economy. Upgrades did not clear.

    Yesterday, on above flight FROM Liberia the baby behind me screamed, not cried, screamed, off and on throughout much of the flight in between crying. It was awful. From what I could tell, the parents did not have snacks, food, or any toys at all.
    They just kept trying to 'reason' with him to stop crying. I actually started rummaging through my bags looking for toys that I may have forgotten to give to son when we parted for separate flights home.
    I'm not against babies flying in first class, but it's the responsibility of the parents to keep them 'entertained' as best they can and have resources that help do that.

  64. Dempseyzdad Diamond

    Slightly odd discussion since you're on a tube with 100+ other people and there is no way to really, truly "get away from it all". Even if there is no baby in FC, families are usually sat at the front row of Y and you'll hear it anyway. Airplanes are a mode of public transportation; there are private jets for those who can't stand the rest of us and our kids.

  65. D3kingg Guest

    We need Miles up in the air ASAP. First class.

  66. Icarus Guest

    Do you refer to infants in a proper first class such as Singapore or Air France or the vast majority of US domestics which are full of upgraded and non revs, and feature nothing more than a few cms extra legroom.

    Many premium cabins have doors etc and would rather have an infant than some out of control “ adults”.

  67. Omar Guest

    The middle ground should be that babies should have to pay a regular fare in business/first class rather than 10% of the fare (or nothing in domestic first).

    That would likely reduce the number significantly.

    Some airlines like MH I believe advertised F as a kids free zone and airlines should be free to offer it if it makes business sense.

  68. Antonio Guest

    What happens with the adults that snore like hippos because they are fat and drank like druggies??? I want to ban them either....

    1. Sandy Needham Guest

      I thought that airlines already try to eliminate drunks during the boarding process?

    2. Antonio Guest

      If its first class I speak about the ones that start drinking champagne and whisky onboard , smart woman...

  69. beerandcheese Guest

    “It can be easier to keep your baby well behaved if you have a bit more space”

    Ben - babies don’t cry, fuss, and scream because they are being “not well behaved”, they do those things because they need something, like food, sleep, attention, etc.

    Give it a few more months as a new parent and you’ll hopefully realize this. I’ve always detested the idea that children on airplanes are either well or poorly behaved....

    “It can be easier to keep your baby well behaved if you have a bit more space”

    Ben - babies don’t cry, fuss, and scream because they are being “not well behaved”, they do those things because they need something, like food, sleep, attention, etc.

    Give it a few more months as a new parent and you’ll hopefully realize this. I’ve always detested the idea that children on airplanes are either well or poorly behaved. It’s usually because they need something or are bored. Just wait until someone comes up to you during deplaning and says “your son was so well behaved” and note how you feel about that.

  70. Creditcrunch Diamond

    As long as the parent(s) try there best to comfort an upset/unsettled little one then it’s fine, what is frustrating parents who dump their kid(s) with the crew and expect them and other passengers to entertain. A lot of families with nanny’s just book them into economy while the parents sit in F or J, that’s ok too.

  71. Gravelly Point Guy Guest

    A resounding NO, period, full stop!!!

    1. Harry Guest

      Amen. Parents don't make kids mind anymore from pure laziness, Dr Spock, fear of Child Protective Services or whatever. NO period.

    2. Ben L. Diamond

      Sounds like both of you are the product of poor parenting :(

  72. Bret Guest

    Last June I had two long haul flights on SQ in business class, and was right next to the bassinet seat with a baby in both legs. SFO to SIN, then SIN to JNB to CPT. I had two lovely flights and barely heard anything from either baby.

    If I think of the last few years of flying, the vast majority of disruptive passengers were grown adults acting like children. Or in one case,...

    Last June I had two long haul flights on SQ in business class, and was right next to the bassinet seat with a baby in both legs. SFO to SIN, then SIN to JNB to CPT. I had two lovely flights and barely heard anything from either baby.

    If I think of the last few years of flying, the vast majority of disruptive passengers were grown adults acting like children. Or in one case, a mother who manipulated and lied her way to getting an extra seat for her child, demanding a passenger give up their aisle for a middle seat or have to sit next to a loud baby for the whole flight. This woman then spent the entire flight demonstrating far more disruptive behavior than her child did.

    So yes - babies should be allowed in first class. Overly disruptive adults should be banned. And this is coming from someone who is not a parent.

  73. Ralph4878 Guest

    Benadryl works well to keep them quiet...

  74. JoePro Guest

    Conceptually, babies in first class is enraging. In practice, it's rarely the issue you'd think it is. I've certainly never been bothered by one.
    Also, for $350, you can nab a Bose Quiet Comfort and basically write them out of existence. (Presuming the airline doesn't provide you with them already).

    But if you want to take the stance that those looking for peace in their travels should fly private, maybe I'll take the stance...

    Conceptually, babies in first class is enraging. In practice, it's rarely the issue you'd think it is. I've certainly never been bothered by one.
    Also, for $350, you can nab a Bose Quiet Comfort and basically write them out of existence. (Presuming the airline doesn't provide you with them already).

    But if you want to take the stance that those looking for peace in their travels should fly private, maybe I'll take the stance that those who feel the need to bring their babies on leisure trips should fly private. (or those who could make other arrangements for their babies during crisis/business travel, but choose not to.)

    1. Bagoly Guest

      I would add that aircraft are very noisy anyway - indeed, headphones deal with sound.
      How about smell - they are significantly more likely to vomit in seat than adults.

  75. HeckFarr Guest

    You and your children are not special.
    Screaming and pooping at 37,000 feet and for hours on end is not something that those around you should have to be subjected to.

    1. JWags Guest

      So parents with children are not allowed to leave the country unless by boat or PJ? Got it.

    2. Jeffrey Guest

      You sound entitled and should be banned for life in public including airplanes.

  76. TheBestBlackBrent Gold

    https://theoatmeal.com/comics/airplane_layout

    The Oatmeal got you covered, every airline should adopt this layout of their planes!

    1. D3kingg Guest

      @Cas

      Also , sharing a first class seat with your family in economy. Walking back and forth switching seats the entire flight.

    2. JWags Guest

      People actually do this regularly?? That seems like some bizarre one off scenario. Otherwise, what a clown move.

  77. Peter Guest

    Let's listen to the internet commentators, and keep babies and children out of first class, business class, economy class, any form of public transportation, restaurants, grocery stores, or any other public place, just in case their presence offends someone. In fact, let's keep them isolated at home and school until they turn 18. They'll have no understanding of how the world works but who cares.

    1. The nice Paul Guest

      I think you (and Ben) are approaching this the wrong way round.

      Ben wrote “Furthermore, most responsible parents dread the thought of their baby disturbing others on flights, and do everything they can to avoid it”. Well, everything except not take their babies onto a depressurised tube, where the babies will suffer pain in their ears while not being able to understand anything about it. What parent would willingly subject their baby to unnecessary...

      I think you (and Ben) are approaching this the wrong way round.

      Ben wrote “Furthermore, most responsible parents dread the thought of their baby disturbing others on flights, and do everything they can to avoid it”. Well, everything except not take their babies onto a depressurised tube, where the babies will suffer pain in their ears while not being able to understand anything about it. What parent would willingly subject their baby to unnecessary pain?

      It’s not as if the baby gives a stuff who it’s going to visit, or will even remember it. No, it’s for the parents’ benefit. Showing off their new possession to their grandparents, or whatever, despite choosing a lifestyle which involves them not living anywhere near that group of relatives (or whoever).

      When there’s screaming or disturbance I don’t blame the babies at all. They’re doing the only thing they can. But I do wonder about the thought processes of the parents.

  78. RealTaylor Member

    The issue is lap babies - having a baby in someone's lap without a seatbelt is a danger to the baby and nearby passengers in the event of emergency and creates a very uncomfortable environment for everyone nearby on all flights. If you buy the baby a seat, then I think you fully have the right to sit in whichever cabin you purchased the baby's seat in. But lap infants should be banned. If you...

    The issue is lap babies - having a baby in someone's lap without a seatbelt is a danger to the baby and nearby passengers in the event of emergency and creates a very uncomfortable environment for everyone nearby on all flights. If you buy the baby a seat, then I think you fully have the right to sit in whichever cabin you purchased the baby's seat in. But lap infants should be banned. If you can't afford to buy a seat for the baby, then don't fly with it - or better yet, don't have the kid at all.

    1. Ned Member

      Man, you started out SO GOOD, and then you went off the rails at the end. While I personally will not fly with my baby without his own seat (for his safety) I won't cast judgement on others with different life situations.

    2. Eve Guest

      Yeah Ned, it went from an okay argument to a pretty naive and sadistic statement…

    3. Bagoly Guest

      Agree - should require same seating arrangements for babies as in cars.
      Indeed had aircraft only been invented this century I'm sure that would be the rule.

      And they should be in window seats so as not to trap unconnected passengers in the event of an evacuation.

    4. reddargon Diamond

      Just thought it's worth pointing out but, at least on Air France, they provide you with a seatbelt for lap babies. It attaches to the normal (adult) seatbelt and ensures that the child is also secure. So at least in my experience, our lap baby was not without a seatbelt.

      That being said, our daughter is 2 now and if we ever have another I will buy a seat for the baby simply bc...

      Just thought it's worth pointing out but, at least on Air France, they provide you with a seatbelt for lap babies. It attaches to the normal (adult) seatbelt and ensures that the child is also secure. So at least in my experience, our lap baby was not without a seatbelt.

      That being said, our daughter is 2 now and if we ever have another I will buy a seat for the baby simply bc it's much more comfortable.

      I'd also like to point out that we could definitely afford to pay for a ticket for our baby, but that doesn't mean I want to shell out hundreds more if I don't have to. Think about it this way--we could take 3 trips for the price of 2 if flying with her as a lap baby each time. People with money still like saving money too.

  79. 9volt Member

    Sorkin is a father of 3 (all under 5) and has a multi-million dollar contract with NBC, not to mention he is co-creator of the show, Billions. I find it hard to believe he would actually sit in Y just to prove a point, when he easily has the means to sit in F.

  80. Tortuga Diamond

    Until FAs start overserving babies, infants begin snorting blow in the lavatory, and toddlers commence throwing DYKWIAs, I'm not going to overthink it.

  81. MildMidwesterner Gold

    I'm frequently seated next to babies in first class. Unfortunately, most of them are middle aged men in red ball caps.

    1. JS Guest

      Exactly - and talking WAY too loud on their cell phone.

  82. Alonzo Diamond

    For domestic flights under 3 hours, makes sense for a lap child. Flights over that length, not sure how any parent would enjoy having a child in their lap for that length of time. Just my opinion. But if parents want to pony up the cash for a non-lap child to fly biz or first for hours, that's their dumb idea. Same idea with bringing pets along for hours and hours of flying.

  83. Nick Guest

    Agree with Garçon with no one under 6, but that just isn’t possible.
    While the airlines site does not say “relaxation” it is definitely implied. And while you may control your kids, many others do not. It’s disruptive to EVERYONE in first / business class regardless if it is a long haul or domestic flight. Stuff like this is expected to happen in coach, just like sitting next to a crazy person or someone...

    Agree with Garçon with no one under 6, but that just isn’t possible.
    While the airlines site does not say “relaxation” it is definitely implied. And while you may control your kids, many others do not. It’s disruptive to EVERYONE in first / business class regardless if it is a long haul or domestic flight. Stuff like this is expected to happen in coach, just like sitting next to a crazy person or someone who doesn’t smell great. Keep the babies out of first/business class.
    While we are on this topic, I don’t agree with pets in first/business class either.

    1. JoePro Gold

      Is it implied? I guess if the airline says something like "relax in a quieter, more private cabin", then I could see that, but not sure they do that. And if they did, would be interesting to see the litigation when a crying baby makes it less quiet.

      There is of course a natural implication: those with families are more likely to be single income, have more Expenditures, and obviously have to add in the...

      Is it implied? I guess if the airline says something like "relax in a quieter, more private cabin", then I could see that, but not sure they do that. And if they did, would be interesting to see the litigation when a crying baby makes it less quiet.

      There is of course a natural implication: those with families are more likely to be single income, have more Expenditures, and obviously have to add in the extra expenses of each kid to the cost of the flight. That makes flying J/F extremely prohibitive for families, even when factoring points/miles. So it's natural to have some kind of expectation going in. But there are obvious exceptions.

    2. Lune Gold

      Airlines also "imply" that I'll be served caviar and lobster by a smiling fashion model and my seatmate will be an even better looking underwear model or distinguished looking CEO-type in a snazzy business suit with whom I might conclude a billion dollar business deal while flying over Greenland. Also, that the seats will be ginormous and comfortable, and everyone will be laughing and conversing while sipping champagne.

      IOW, airlines will imply everything they can...

      Airlines also "imply" that I'll be served caviar and lobster by a smiling fashion model and my seatmate will be an even better looking underwear model or distinguished looking CEO-type in a snazzy business suit with whom I might conclude a billion dollar business deal while flying over Greenland. Also, that the seats will be ginormous and comfortable, and everyone will be laughing and conversing while sipping champagne.

      IOW, airlines will imply everything they can get away with while still avoiding lawsuits for misleading advertising. What you're actually entitled to is what they write down in their ticket and all their legalese in their carriage contract. And that guarantee is basically what Lucky says: a large seat, more space, additional food. Maybe some pajamas and eye shades. That's it. Even the flight attendants aren't guaranteed to be less surly or more friendly.

      I'm a new parent as well, but even before I had kids I didn't mind babies on a flight. If disruptive is the standard we should use, then what about loud talkers, people who don't use headphones while watching a movie on their laptop, not to mention people who bump my shoulder as they walk up and down the aisle, and just people who offend my general sensibilities?

      Lucky is absolutely right: the difference between commercial and private flying isn't about space or even comfort (flying in a small private jet for 18 hours is much less comfortable than flying first class in Emirates). What you're paying for is control: you're essentially buying out an entire plane to control everything in it, from the pilots and the flight attendants, to what meals will be served, what passengers will be on board, which stops will be made, and when it departs. In contrast, commercial aviation is about giving up control in exchange for much lower prices: you control nothing except the seat you're entitled to (and sometimes not even that i.e. involuntary bumps, etc).

  84. Coolbeans202 New Member

    My (now two year-old) son's first flight at 2 months was in domestic first class, and he's flown in first several times since. With one exception, my husband and I have always bought our son a ticket. It's just so much easier for him to have his own seat/car seat. If there are three of us then we sit in economy with a row to ourselves. If there are only two then we might buy...

    My (now two year-old) son's first flight at 2 months was in domestic first class, and he's flown in first several times since. With one exception, my husband and I have always bought our son a ticket. It's just so much easier for him to have his own seat/car seat. If there are three of us then we sit in economy with a row to ourselves. If there are only two then we might buy first if it's cheap enough, or we have been upgraded several times. We haven't yet flown internationally with him, and can't lap him anymore, but we had we done it we would've bought him a seat and all sat in Economy.

    1. Bagoly Guest

      So sensible to switch between Economy and first depending on whether you are two or three.
      In Europe where short-haul "Business" is merely middle seat blocked, for two of us I prefer to sit in Emergency Row seat for extra legroom, and if feeling spendthrift buy the third seat to get the whole row.

    2. FlyerDon New Member

      You can sit in an exit row with a child?

    3. k1b2637 Diamond

      You sound like a responsible and thoughtful parent. Thank you!

  85. Courtney Guest

    When it's called business class, it should be for adult-aged individuals only.

    1. Rob Guest

      Well good thing it's called Delta One, United Polaris (i guess AA is the outlier) and JetBlue Mint. No "buisness" branding on US carrier. Domestically it's First so not really buisness either

  86. Rob Guest

    Agree with the flying private point. A flight in first class where you also get a relaxing baby-free environment is like getting the experience of a 25k private flight for the bargain price of 5k.

  87. JS Guest

    Some of the biggest spoiled babies (adults) sit in F. Let me sit by a newborn, innocent, fussy baby any day of the week in F over sitting next to a sloppy, entitled, overbearing, child-like adult!!

  88. Todd Gold

    Oh, how I wish I could sort threads by Controversial, a la Reddit.

  89. Garcon Guest

    Anyone under age 6 shouldn’t be allowed on planes period. I’d rather have cats running up and down the aisles and babies and brats in the cargo. This blog is really thirsty for content these days.

    1. Alvin | YTHK Diamond

      What would you like for your 6th birthday?

  90. Mike O. Guest

    I wouldn't have a problem with babies in first class. After all, we were all babies at one point. All I would ask is for the parents to calm their kids whether rocking them to sleep, taking them to a quiet area of the aircraft like the galley to calm them down. They won't be doing it just for our sake, but their own sake as well.

    1. Jeffrey Guest

      We are all babies once in our lives. Of course Mike!!!! But not every parent on the plane are that willing to do for the sake of their neighbors next door. They are either lazy, apathetic, or too glued to their screens on the phone.

      There is nothing you can do for these ignorant people. Ignorant is bliss, ignorance welcomes company. That is why child friendly airlines likes them especially Emirates to begin with....

      We are all babies once in our lives. Of course Mike!!!! But not every parent on the plane are that willing to do for the sake of their neighbors next door. They are either lazy, apathetic, or too glued to their screens on the phone.

      There is nothing you can do for these ignorant people. Ignorant is bliss, ignorance welcomes company. That is why child friendly airlines likes them especially Emirates to begin with. They invested so much $$$$ to play with your kids and encourage them to be future pilots and cabin crew by dressing up in a costume of some sort. Ugh......

Featured Comments Most helpful comments ( as chosen by the OMAAT community ).

The comments on this page have not been provided, reviewed, approved or otherwise endorsed by any advertiser, and it is not an advertiser's responsibility to ensure posts and/or questions are answered.

MildMidwesterner Gold

I'm frequently seated next to babies in first class. Unfortunately, most of them are middle aged men in red ball caps.

15
Alvin | YTHK Diamond

What would you like for your 6th birthday?

8
JS Guest

Some of the biggest spoiled babies (adults) sit in F. Let me sit by a newborn, innocent, fussy baby any day of the week in F over sitting next to a sloppy, entitled, overbearing, child-like adult!!

8
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