Every so often I see a frequent flyer express frustration online about not receiving a free upgrade to an empty premium seat. Some airlines have published complimentary upgrade programs, but I’m referring to situations where an upgrade isn’t a perk of elite status.
For example, I’ve had a lot of people reach out to me over time, pointing out how they have elite status on an airline, find themselves on a long haul flight where half of the business class cabin is empty, and they don’t understand why airlines don’t try to create some goodwill by upgrading people. Why not make your best customers feel appreciated for their loyalty, because what’s the real cost of doing so? It’s a fair question, so I thought that would be a fun topic to discuss…
In this post:
Airlines have published upgrade procedures
Airline upgrade policies vary greatly around the globe. For example, in the United States it’s pretty standard for elite members to be eligible for complimentary space available upgrades on select routes. Meanwhile at most airlines in Asia and Europe, there’s no such thing as an unlimited complimentary upgrade program.
Obviously there are other ways that upgrades happen as well. Sometimes it’s possible to redeem miles or upgrade certificates for upgrades. Other times airlines will sell upgrades prior to or during check-in. Other times airlines will offer operational upgrades, which are in situations where economy might be oversold, while there are empty seats in business class.
However, almost across the board, airlines follow published procedures a lot more closely than in the past. Back in the day, frontline airline employees had tons of discretion when it came to who they could upgrade, and under what circumstances. From upgrading friends and family, to upgrading people they might be flirting with, there were a lot of shenanigans and little accountability.
With technology having improved and most upgrades now being automated, frontline employees have very little discretion when it comes to upgrades. It’s common for airlines to audit upgrades, and an employee could be punished if they upgrade someone in a way that’s not in line with the carrier’s policies.
Upgrading people for free creates goodwill
I can appreciate the argument in favor of providing complimentary upgrades on more routes when there are empty seats. If a seat would otherwise go out empty, it’s a sunk cost at that point. The incremental cost of upgrading someone to a premium cabin is next to nothing, as the airline can no longer monetize that premium seat.
If you’re a frequent flyer and ever travel in long haul economy, surely you’ve boarded and hoped for an operational upgrade. And if you were to receive an upgrade like that, you’d no doubt have a very favorable feeling toward the airline at that point. At least for that particular flight, it would certainly be a way to boost the net promoter score!
So I can appreciate why people say that more complimentary upgrades would create goodwill, as that’s almost certainly true.
Free upgrades are a slippery slope
Why don’t airlines provide free upgrades anymore? Simply put, because at some point it dilutes the product. Look at what has happened to domestic first class in the United States.
For as long as I can remember, airlines have been offering free space available upgrades to first class. Unfortunately the quality of first class within the United States also isn’t great, when you compare it to what you’ll find elsewhere in the world.
For years US airlines had a major issue — people viewed first class as an “upgrade class” of sorts, and that made it hard to justify paying for it when you could get it for free. This is a trend that airlines have reversed in recent years, as we’ve seen airlines get much better at monetizing premium cabins.
Airlines have started pricing first class more reasonably, and offering more pathways to upgrade beyond just complimentary space available upgrades. To go along with that, we’ve seen airlines hugely increase the percentage of first class seats that they sell. For example, in 2011, Delta only sold around 31% of its first class seats. Now that number is closer to 90%. That’s a pretty remarkable transformation.
While the goal is of course to maximize revenue, the long term way in which that’s being accomplished is by conditioning people to once again expect to pay for domestic first class, rather than expect an upgrade to it.
This same principle applies when it comes to long haul flights on US airlines (where complimentary upgrades generally aren’t offered), or on all flights on most other airlines (where complimentary upgrades just aren’t a thing).
If you think you’re going to be able to score a complimentary upgrade, why would you bother paying for the seat? Rather many of us would just strategically book the flights that we think give us the best odds of an upgrade.
In the past we’ve seen airlines sometimes have “surprise & delight” upgrade campaigns, where there was an unpublished policy of upgrading elites on long haul flights under certain circumstances, even without an operational need. While I think a gesture like that is fantastic, the problem is that at some point it also creates expectations.
If an airline upgrades you once, you’ll probably be disappointed if you take the same route again and circumstances are similar, yet you don’t get an upgrade.
Lastly, on some level providing complimentary upgrades probably doesn’t make those who paid a lot of money for those seats feel great. Admittedly there are always going to be some sort of policies in place for upgrades, but many take issue with others getting something for “free” when they spent a lot for it.
Bottom line
All airlines have official policies as to when they’ll upgrade loyalty program members. Unless an airline has a complimentary space available upgrade program in place, expect that you’ll only receive a free upgrade if it’s for operational reasons (like if economy is oversold).
Ultimately airlines don’t just upgrade loyal flyers unless it’s a published benefit, in order to avoid revenue dilution. If someone knows they can get an upgrade for free, they’re less likely to pay for it. Furthermore, knowing that something is just being given away to others likely won’t make those who paid cash feel great.
Where do you stand on airlines providing free upgrades to empty seats, aside from published policies? Should it happen more often?
It's mainly because if an airline has a reputation that they upgrade people for free frequently, the value in paying for the premium decreases. Also, the 'goodwill' it creates is extremely temporary and most people look back more like they got lucky rather than the airline going out of its way to help them.
If these people are really peeved about this, many airlines have an upgrade bidding system. Just put in the minimum bid...
It's mainly because if an airline has a reputation that they upgrade people for free frequently, the value in paying for the premium decreases. Also, the 'goodwill' it creates is extremely temporary and most people look back more like they got lucky rather than the airline going out of its way to help them.
If these people are really peeved about this, many airlines have an upgrade bidding system. Just put in the minimum bid and you'll likely be upgraded for much less than at check in or paying for a full ticket.
One distinction people are missing about upgrades is whether they are corporate or personal/leisure travelers. I am a corporate traveler and have status with the exception that I'm held hostage to my companies travel policies regarding what class of ticket purchase I am allowed. If the airline wants me to be loyal and win my biz flights/travel then I expect to be upgraded whenever premium seats are available. When I am traveling on personal expense...
One distinction people are missing about upgrades is whether they are corporate or personal/leisure travelers. I am a corporate traveler and have status with the exception that I'm held hostage to my companies travel policies regarding what class of ticket purchase I am allowed. If the airline wants me to be loyal and win my biz flights/travel then I expect to be upgraded whenever premium seats are available. When I am traveling on personal expense then I should have much less expectations of being upgraded
I think Airlines should distinguish between these types of travelers when determining who gets upgrades etc. Biz travelers should always have priority over leisure travelers in my opinion
A couple of years ago we were flying in economy on AA. A few days before departure I received an email from AA offering an upgrade at a very attractive price. Much less than the "published" fare difference. I was pleasantly surprised, and free upgrades always escape me due to my lowly gold status, so I bit. Not sure if that was some sort of marketing test?
Instead of free, perhaps there is an incremental...
A couple of years ago we were flying in economy on AA. A few days before departure I received an email from AA offering an upgrade at a very attractive price. Much less than the "published" fare difference. I was pleasantly surprised, and free upgrades always escape me due to my lowly gold status, so I bit. Not sure if that was some sort of marketing test?
Instead of free, perhaps there is an incremental revenue opportunity for those empty seats upfront, IF they are priced attractively?
At Delta our mantra is "Protect the Product". Over and Over. Nobody wants to pay thousands for a seat only to be swarmed with back packers and screaming babies that have been upgraded. It will never happen. There is no little to no goodwill created by upgrading someone from coach to Delta One. Ask the Waldorf Astoria if you can have the Presidential Suite since It's empty anyway tonight ......and see if they don't throw you out into the street!
I agree, nobody in F/J wants that. And we're the ones paying a big premium.
I understand that, with hotels, offering free upgrades can be a good business decision because it's easier to sell a base room at the last minute than a suite, so moving someone out of a base room makes that room available for a last minute sale. I wonder if the calculus is different for airlines? Is a business seat or an economy seat more likely to sell at the last minute?
Except, airlines can get the best of both worlds. Hypothetically, an airline has 90 Y and 10 F seats. If they have 90 Y reservations and 6 F, there is no need to move someone to F to open a seat. They can just sell a 91st Y seat. If all Y pax show up, you can then move one to F.
Be kind when receiving a gate upgrade. Don’t give attitude for not getting a meal choice for obvious reasons. Kindness is also free.
We have noticed a shift in customer behavior, and it is refreshing to see customers the purchase upgrade offers and behave with exitment and grace. Opposite to what most people believe.
La Premiere is amazing due to fact you simply pay or are a top AF customer. My friend only flies on AF and she appreciates that many times the cabin is empty (four seats only)
One of the best aspects of La Premiere with AF is that they do not upgrade business to their first.
At least in the US open premium seats are a rarity. Presumably airlines want people to pay for those seats and at the very minimum award those seats to their FF base prioritizing higher levels and historical spend.
Not to mention that would be additional work on gate staff that are already tasked with clearing standbys and upgrades, checking bags and getting the flight boarded and off the gate by departure time.
Back on...
At least in the US open premium seats are a rarity. Presumably airlines want people to pay for those seats and at the very minimum award those seats to their FF base prioritizing higher levels and historical spend.
Not to mention that would be additional work on gate staff that are already tasked with clearing standbys and upgrades, checking bags and getting the flight boarded and off the gate by departure time.
Back on NYE 2009 going into NY 2010 I took a QF JFK/LAX/SYD flight on an award ticket. I was AA EXP at the time. Both segments were very light due to it being NYE and the agent at JFK upgraded me into business for both segments. I suspect that NYE 2026 going into NY 2027 would be a very different story.
I had a one way Delta One ticket a year or so ago and the long haul portion was ATL- HNL. It was booked 2 days before departure for about 3000 dollars. I was up working for probably 60 of the 72 hours prior to this trip. All I wanted to do was sleep, but NOOOOOOOOO. I was seated in one of the centered aisle seats and upon boarding a child approximately 10 years old...
I had a one way Delta One ticket a year or so ago and the long haul portion was ATL- HNL. It was booked 2 days before departure for about 3000 dollars. I was up working for probably 60 of the 72 hours prior to this trip. All I wanted to do was sleep, but NOOOOOOOOO. I was seated in one of the centered aisle seats and upon boarding a child approximately 10 years old sat next to me……ok no big deal……well his parents sat behind me and were so excited that they were randomly upgraded at the gate……ok again, no big deal. Although, this child spent half the flight sprawling out onto my space across the divide, starring incessantly and poking me while crawling over me at least a dozen times to see his mom……needless to say I was pissed galore and his parents could care less on their child’s behavior. His parents allowed it and wouldn’t stop his behavior even though I asked them politely. Finally, I went to FA and they had one PS seat open they let me go sleep and rest in.
If you want to sit upfront, pay for it. If you can’t afford it then I’m sorry, work harder or do something else to make more money. Flying is a privilege and not a right. I’m not saying that this situation may not have happened with paying D1 passengers, but they were clearly upgraded and didn’t respect or understand how to act. Can’t really fault the child, it’s the parents.
"If you want to sit upfront, pay for it."
One of the biggest complaints I'm reading here is that people with loyalty are provided, by the airlines, the means to sit upfront in the form of certificates. That's a form of payment, but then the carriers turn around and, seemingly, disallow the use of these forms of payment.
That's a legit gripe.
I offer a counter point. It is in the airlines interest to upgrade one or two passengers to a higher cabin if they have never flown the cabin and spending significant money / flying regularly in the airlines. This could be limited and a long term investment for showing passengers what the next higher cabin is like so they will get free sample and later will want to pay for it.
Obviously it makes...
I offer a counter point. It is in the airlines interest to upgrade one or two passengers to a higher cabin if they have never flown the cabin and spending significant money / flying regularly in the airlines. This could be limited and a long term investment for showing passengers what the next higher cabin is like so they will get free sample and later will want to pay for it.
Obviously it makes sense to upgrade only 1 cabin, so Y+ to PY/W, W/PY to J and so on. And priority to people who paid higher fare which is a good signal of them spending more money for better comfort/service.
With the data they have on passengers and AI, this should be fairly easy to implement and hook passengers who have disposable income to pay more in future for higher cabin. Sort of strategic investment for long term.
If someone is not paying for J, then the chances that they will pay for J after getting a free sample is close to zero.
Most people who fly J today, used to fly Y or W before. I am talking about non corporate travelers. The trend in leisure J is going up quite fast. People move up in their income/wealth status and prioritize comfort when they have more disposable income and/or get older. I know many of my friends who used to fly only Y, then tried W a few times and then later J and now they can't...
Most people who fly J today, used to fly Y or W before. I am talking about non corporate travelers. The trend in leisure J is going up quite fast. People move up in their income/wealth status and prioritize comfort when they have more disposable income and/or get older. I know many of my friends who used to fly only Y, then tried W a few times and then later J and now they can't imagine travelling long haul in Y anymore.
You just need to get people (especially the ones already paying higher fares not basic/light fares) experience better comfort and service and they will keep coming back for more. I am not talking about people who travel only when necessary and the cheapest fare available.
If you are flying for work whining that people can buy up for $100, the issue is not with the airline, take it up with your employer.
Today, "loyal" means not most frequent, but OPM flyers with status who dont pay for their tickets anyway.
You seem obsessed with who reimburses the travellers for their flights, and are assuming that all front-of-plane pax are expensing the tickets.
That is utterly irrelevant.
And your ASSumption that all first class flyers are flying on someone else's dime is erroneous. All you're doing is making yourself seem ignorant and biased.
It would be totally unfair to passengers who paid full fares to travel business class
No upgrades. Pay for your seat. Exception are screw-ups. Its ok if Y or C is full and the C/F has free seats. Stop filling up the front cabins.
What ya'll do in the US doesn't matter for the rest of the planet. One benefit of intra-European C is the distance to fellow passanger. Same for APAC where typically wide bodies are flown. US they put (large) bodies next to you and fill the front, annoying.
It makes sense for airlines to offer paid upgrades first to passengers with the highest status and then offer it to other passengers with lesser or no status. If no one is willing to pay, say $400, to upgrade, then the airline can re-offer paid upgrades at a lower price (always starting with the most elite customers), for example $325, down to a certain price floor. In the end, if there is no passenger willing...
It makes sense for airlines to offer paid upgrades first to passengers with the highest status and then offer it to other passengers with lesser or no status. If no one is willing to pay, say $400, to upgrade, then the airline can re-offer paid upgrades at a lower price (always starting with the most elite customers), for example $325, down to a certain price floor. In the end, if there is no passenger willing to pay $325 or $250 or $200 for the upgrade to First, then the airline should just leave the seat empty, as it is clear that no Economy passengers consider First valuable enough to pay for. The price floor would depend on the length of the flight and number of seats in First remaining, etc.
On a side note, I've noticed that it is very hard to book First class tickets on United using [a modest number of] points, whereas it is usually easier to book First class with points on American (e.g. for 25K points one way on select flights).
I have silver tier status and am entitled to an upgrade every time I fly. If I don’t get one I’ll be really mad and post about it to my 31 followers on social media. Airlines better be aware.
Airlines are in business to make money. Never give something away for free if you can sell it for cash or points. Top-tier members of the FF program are already a captive audience, so there’s zero commercial benefit to offering them extra sweeteners. Besides which, on a longer flight it’s very pleasant to find oneself in a premium cabin with empty seats. It’s quieter, and the service is better. If you really want to sit...
Airlines are in business to make money. Never give something away for free if you can sell it for cash or points. Top-tier members of the FF program are already a captive audience, so there’s zero commercial benefit to offering them extra sweeteners. Besides which, on a longer flight it’s very pleasant to find oneself in a premium cabin with empty seats. It’s quieter, and the service is better. If you really want to sit up at the front, buy the seat with money or points.
It's extremely unfortunate but it really feels like you've become an airline and hotel shill. I've been reading you for the better part of 20 years but you didn't use to make excuses for companies screwing over loyal members. Instead you used to call them out. Follow the money I guess.
To cite an example rather than just anecdotes, I am an AA EXP. I spend four figures with them annually on airfare and well...
It's extremely unfortunate but it really feels like you've become an airline and hotel shill. I've been reading you for the better part of 20 years but you didn't use to make excuses for companies screwing over loyal members. Instead you used to call them out. Follow the money I guess.
To cite an example rather than just anecdotes, I am an AA EXP. I spend four figures with them annually on airfare and well into the six figures on their (more profitable to them) credit cards. Yet AA consistently will not show availability for SWU's on flights where there is patently availability showing. And on domestic flights my "free" - a misnomer given what I spend - upgrade is often usurped by someone who rarely flies AA but is offered a $30 upgrade. Your attempts to defend this come up hollow.
I miss when you didn't try to defend indefensible policies. Just say you either don't understand, you disagree, or both. Come back to backing readers rather than corporations. Please.
Oh please, your "spend" (and if not yours than 99% of "elites") is not yours.
Airlines have the right to sell the seat for money instead of giving it to freeloaders whose corporate overlord bought the ticket for them.
"...whose corporate overlord bought the ticket for them."
How do you know that's the case vs. his buying the tickets with his own money?
On top of that, how does the source of his payments have anything to do, whatsoever, with his comments and opinions?
I fly long-haul flights in business class only. What I do not get is that on most flights I see unoccupied first class seats, for which I would be willing to pay a (discounted) upgrade, but am never offered it at the check-in.
As a follow-up, I had a couple of free upgrades to business at the gate on the BOS-FRA nonstop Lufthansa flights. I think I was booked in premium economy, and it was in the second half of the year when I had 5 business trip to FRA. All miles were credited to United, so no status with Lufthansa. The company I work for doesn't pay for business class to Europe, so it was a nice...
As a follow-up, I had a couple of free upgrades to business at the gate on the BOS-FRA nonstop Lufthansa flights. I think I was booked in premium economy, and it was in the second half of the year when I had 5 business trip to FRA. All miles were credited to United, so no status with Lufthansa. The company I work for doesn't pay for business class to Europe, so it was a nice surprise to get a flat bed. Good will is irrelevant - Lufthansa doesn't have a competitor on this route.
I guess I am on the other side of this situation. I have no status with any airline. As part of my award travels, sometimes I end up with a BOS-SFO/LAX on United in economy, connecting to a long haul flight in business. Most of the time, closer to departure, United offers an upgrade to first for $400 - I take them for a 6-hour flight. I guess that means one fewer upgrade available to...
I guess I am on the other side of this situation. I have no status with any airline. As part of my award travels, sometimes I end up with a BOS-SFO/LAX on United in economy, connecting to a long haul flight in business. Most of the time, closer to departure, United offers an upgrade to first for $400 - I take them for a 6-hour flight. I guess that means one fewer upgrade available to someone with a diamond-encrusted unobtainium galactic services frequent flyer status. Sorry about that.
@Ben
As part of this discussion, have you ever wondered how many of these "super galactic" frequent travelers are Flying OPM? Without skin in the game. What do they have to bitch about?
As a point of reference, I am lifetime Premier 1K, and a current Senator with LH. As a retiree, I travel as a free agent.
Living in Europe, I don't have a U.S. based mileage plus credit card. So, no deals. I used my other cards with LH. Not mad at UA for their change in philosophy. When working, based in U.S., I rarely didn't get fc upgrade with UA or CO. They change policy....
As a point of reference, I am lifetime Premier 1K, and a current Senator with LH. As a retiree, I travel as a free agent.
Living in Europe, I don't have a U.S. based mileage plus credit card. So, no deals. I used my other cards with LH. Not mad at UA for their change in philosophy. When working, based in U.S., I rarely didn't get fc upgrade with UA or CO. They change policy. No big deal. I spend my own money now on LH. As a free agent, retired, I get to choose I fly with.
As I said previously, I don"t know who flies OPM. I don't care. But for the ones that do: stop your whining.
A couple years ago I was on an American flight where there was no one left on the upgrade list and there were 3-4 open seats in F. Instead of just letting them go out empty the FAs ran a contest to fill them. It was ridiculous. It's OK if a seat goes out empty once in a while.
The argument of not giving away upgrades for free is sound business. If the airline can sell the seat rather than provide it for free or an operational fraction of the cost, good for them.
The interesting thing this post has me thinking about is the "paid" upgrade via status instruments. My 1k Plus Points upgrades rarely clear. This will likely be the third year in a row I have unused points (I'm aware...
The argument of not giving away upgrades for free is sound business. If the airline can sell the seat rather than provide it for free or an operational fraction of the cost, good for them.
The interesting thing this post has me thinking about is the "paid" upgrade via status instruments. My 1k Plus Points upgrades rarely clear. This will likely be the third year in a row I have unused points (I'm aware there are now other uses, but the stated purpose for those is to upgrade). If the biggest incentive for status fails to incentivize travel, folks will go somewhere else more often.
@Ben, I'm curious if you've thought about that line. How much can revenue optimization undermine loyalty incentives before loyalty will no longer be a choice worth making?
Have status and book early to get a bulkhead/bassinet economy seat. Perhaps they've overbooked economy, perhaps they need the bulkhead/bassinet. Maybe you get an op up. Probably not.
Back in the days when qualification was about butt in seat miles I’d get an unexpected upgrade once or twice a year on long hauls as a top tier elite. It was a nice surprise each time but never expected. Still it certainly reinforced my loyalty at essentially no cost. My guess is a little more unexpected surprise and delight would be a good ROI even these days.
It cheapens the product, and as is a poor business decision.
I think comparing "first class" in the US to "first class" elsewhere is grossly misleading. What is known as first class in the US (domestically, at least) is equivalent to "business class" in much of the world, and short-haul business class in Europe (in particular) almost always kinda sucks in terms of the hard product on-board.
That being said, I'm also reminded of how Virgin America approached F - they did some op-ups (I was...
I think comparing "first class" in the US to "first class" elsewhere is grossly misleading. What is known as first class in the US (domestically, at least) is equivalent to "business class" in much of the world, and short-haul business class in Europe (in particular) almost always kinda sucks in terms of the hard product on-board.
That being said, I'm also reminded of how Virgin America approached F - they did some op-ups (I was offered one once, gratis, but I was already in F) but otherwise you had to pay for F to get into F.
As someone who nearly always pays for long-haul business class (or FC in the US), it used to be that you'd see some seats in the front released to elites and/or nonrev's just before the aircraft door closed. And they would usually quietly take their seats and not cause a fuss.
Today, the entitlement is just next level. "I should have received an upgrade..." "I have xxx,000 followers, and I'll bury them..." "I can't believe...
As someone who nearly always pays for long-haul business class (or FC in the US), it used to be that you'd see some seats in the front released to elites and/or nonrev's just before the aircraft door closed. And they would usually quietly take their seats and not cause a fuss.
Today, the entitlement is just next level. "I should have received an upgrade..." "I have xxx,000 followers, and I'll bury them..." "I can't believe these parasites are allowed to get seats in this cabin when I paid $4000 ..." "I'm an important influencer, and I paid full-fare to fly in the front of this plane, and video myself and blather on about every aspect of my flight experience, to the detriment of everyone seated around me..." Honestly, it's beyond ridiculous. Pay for what you want; sit down quietly; respect the passengers in your immediate vicinity. I'm just done with all this undeserved entitlement!
P.S. Yes - I should just break down and fly private. Unfortunately, that's not in the cards economically. Still... people.. just behave! It's not that hard!
If I’m flying an eight-to-17 hour flight, I’d rather be on one of the decent international carriers’ first class (looking at you, EK, AF, SQ, NH, CX, etc.) than private.
Agreed on most of your other points, however!
The US airlines can and do create exactly the opposite of what you describe, i.e it is ILL WILL and resentment when they break their own rules for Elite status passengers and push their greed for monetizing premium seats to rediculous limits: I understand and approve their approach when they offer market-priced cash upgrades, but they go too far.
REAL EXAMPLE:
On the 4-hour flight yesterday from A to B in a 737...
The US airlines can and do create exactly the opposite of what you describe, i.e it is ILL WILL and resentment when they break their own rules for Elite status passengers and push their greed for monetizing premium seats to rediculous limits: I understand and approve their approach when they offer market-priced cash upgrades, but they go too far.
REAL EXAMPLE:
On the 4-hour flight yesterday from A to B in a 737 Max, there were 10 unsold F seats 5 days before the flight. I received an offer, not cheap. I did not decline but remained silent. My status permits (not guarantees, of course) free upgrades 96 hours before the flight. I kept receiving offers, but not much cheaper, as F did not fill. The last offer was 12 hours before departure.
I was finally upgraded 7 hours before the flight as 7 seats remained open. The last 2 or 3 upgrades were only given at the gate.
So now, whether you are Elite-Top or Elite-Entry, you receive offers up to a few hours before the flight. This is not always the case but it becomes more and more frequent. They happily tread on their own policies and they expect to keep our loyalty. Dream on....
I am pretty much done being loyal to any airline. I have been EXP with AA for several years based on flying and credit card spend. I was able to get upgraded most of the time. Gone were the 100 hours before flight time and lately, it has been at the gate. I constantly monitor the flights that I am booked on in advance to see seat availability. Today I was offered an upgrade on...
I am pretty much done being loyal to any airline. I have been EXP with AA for several years based on flying and credit card spend. I was able to get upgraded most of the time. Gone were the 100 hours before flight time and lately, it has been at the gate. I constantly monitor the flights that I am booked on in advance to see seat availability. Today I was offered an upgrade on my next flight to LGA. I looked and there are 8 of the 12 seats available. I priced a one way for this flight, and the basic fare was $324. The price for Main was $392 as it also was for premium( FC ). Now if someone needed to book this flight, why would anyone book in Main versus first class? And so, between the upgrade offers and this crazy same fare for both coach and FC, I guess I may not get my upgrade. It is a one hour flight and my wife and I are booked together as it is a regional jet so it is still no middle seat and we get to sit up front in coach anyway. Something is wrong with this picture. And do not say it should be reserved just for fliers versus credit card spend, as the airlines make more on credit card spend than on fares. Amex is the winner here now because I have no real reason to use my AA credit card.
“I am pretty much done being loyal to any airline.”
Hear hear!
Well, I should say I’m loyal, but I’m loyal based on service and hard product, and price, and that has led to status with three global / international carriers (none US based), but that status is coincidental (and doesn’t do much for me, as my international flights are always in first anyway (so I already have lounge access and checked bags as part...
“I am pretty much done being loyal to any airline.”
Hear hear!
Well, I should say I’m loyal, but I’m loyal based on service and hard product, and price, and that has led to status with three global / international carriers (none US based), but that status is coincidental (and doesn’t do much for me, as my international flights are always in first anyway (so I already have lounge access and checked bags as part of the ticket, etc. etc. etc.), with the occasional business segment if first isn’t available).
Since you're "always in first anyway", this post isn't really for you, is it now. This truly is relevant for those who are not travelling like you, me being one of them.
Put hot and kind FAs in business class and I’ll pay more for a better view and service.
I have been lucky to get a few upgrades without having status. Cathay Pacific, PE to BC. Air Canada, E to BC and Qantas in flight, E to PE. All in all, i was friendly and accommodating to the front line workers.
Then when i have status, forget about it.
Back in the day, Delta was known in travel agency / corporate travel management for being so good about upgrading a travel professional at the gate and rarely (back in the 80s 90s early 200s) did I not get an upgrade.
That was greatly appreciated and I am sure3 it drove sales Delta's way.
Because 'they're businesses, not charities' or whatever the supply-side folks like to say.
If a airline upgrades someone last minute in the UK for free (operational upgrade etc), would the higher APD need to be paid?
No.
Free upgrades should be provided only to winners of a Hunger Games type challenge amongst the economy passengers. A brutal competition amongst the poors would undoubtedly keep me entertained whilst waiting for my flight in the lounge.
I fly F/J only, with the exception I'll do Y in Australia as I find the additional cost ridiculous for the short hop it normally is (and I'm in Y on NZ planes without F, of course). I paid for it in cash or miles. On narrowbodies, I'd much rather have the only seat next to me empty. I'd rather have the F FA have less people to serve. If Homer wants F, Homer should...
I fly F/J only, with the exception I'll do Y in Australia as I find the additional cost ridiculous for the short hop it normally is (and I'm in Y on NZ planes without F, of course). I paid for it in cash or miles. On narrowbodies, I'd much rather have the only seat next to me empty. I'd rather have the F FA have less people to serve. If Homer wants F, Homer should buy F. I agree that upgrades can reduce the willingness of those who might get upgraded to buy F. But, those who pay for F will be willing to pay more if the left unsold F seats empty. If I paid $1,000 for F, I don't think it unreadonable for Bart tp stay in the Y seat that cost hime $200, since I will enjoy 2C more if Bart isn't in 2A.
This isn't totally related, but I never understand why US carriers don't provide lounge access on paid domestic first class tickets. Lounge access marginally costs very little to provide, and these are an airline's most lucrative customers. I know why it started this way (and for not very pleasant reasons), but it's a mystery why it's persisted.
I guess the "obvious" answer is that they are hooked on selling club passes, and some people (who...
This isn't totally related, but I never understand why US carriers don't provide lounge access on paid domestic first class tickets. Lounge access marginally costs very little to provide, and these are an airline's most lucrative customers. I know why it started this way (and for not very pleasant reasons), but it's a mystery why it's persisted.
I guess the "obvious" answer is that they are hooked on selling club passes, and some people (who always travel in paid first class) would unsubscribe. But I wonder if they could charge more for domestic first class if this were a benefit of the ticket class. Or an American loyalist with an Admirals Club membership might fly United (and be upsold to First) if they knew their first class ticket came with club access. As someone who has access across all three carriers, I wouldn't like to see that, but it seems like a clear win for airlines.
Most hubs are already at capacity, no way these lounges could take on all this extra. A one off paid first class passenger is far from the airlines’ most profitable
However as airlines start to unbundle and tier fares more I wouldn’t be surprised to see a domestic first that comes with lounge access
That's a very fair counterpoint, but they could offset that by tightening up on club access for memberships/credit cards. Again, I wouldn't like to see these changes, I'm just surprised this isn't the direction the industry is heading, especially given how they take a completly different view of international business/first class passengers.
That said, I suspect you're closer to the mark with your guess of future fares that include the access. It would be almost...
That's a very fair counterpoint, but they could offset that by tightening up on club access for memberships/credit cards. Again, I wouldn't like to see these changes, I'm just surprised this isn't the direction the industry is heading, especially given how they take a completly different view of international business/first class passengers.
That said, I suspect you're closer to the mark with your guess of future fares that include the access. It would be almost like selling day passes, except they could price the unbundled offering according to capacity.
They do offer club access on long haul business class and it is a separate more upscale club from their regular clubs.
The only thing worse than a stingy customer is a stingy customer who expects to be treated like a VIP
An airline could offer upgrades based on the last time a person got one. They could have in the system John Doe had a free upgrade two flights ago, but Jane Doe has never had one, so they could give her the upgrade. They have all this information already, so they could easily have it in the system for who gets an upgrade for free. I also don't buy the argument that people who pay...
An airline could offer upgrades based on the last time a person got one. They could have in the system John Doe had a free upgrade two flights ago, but Jane Doe has never had one, so they could give her the upgrade. They have all this information already, so they could easily have it in the system for who gets an upgrade for free. I also don't buy the argument that people who pay will be upset they paid while someone else got it for free. The passenger would have no clue who did or didn't get one unless someone says they did. Most people who do pay are not willing to take the risk of an upgrade even if it was available for free. If I am on a 10 hour flight I sure as heck wouldn't take the chance of maybe being upgraded, even if I had a chance. Giving a free upgrade once in a blue moon to someone is hardly a big deal for all parties involved.
Some do. They have an algorithm that detects frequent fliers who have been upgraded during a certain time frame v others that have not. So for example, someone with a lower status accompanying one with a higher one and the same booking may be upgraded.
first - I think the “reasonably” priced first class fares disappeared a year or two ago…
Second - I’m torn. As someone whom frequently pays for first class, the last thing I want is for the empty seat next to me to be filled by an upgrade. One of the best experiences about flying first internationally is not having the cabin filled, let alone with a bunch of upgrades.
At the same time,...
first - I think the “reasonably” priced first class fares disappeared a year or two ago…
Second - I’m torn. As someone whom frequently pays for first class, the last thing I want is for the empty seat next to me to be filled by an upgrade. One of the best experiences about flying first internationally is not having the cabin filled, let alone with a bunch of upgrades.
At the same time, I also have top-tier status with a couple airlines, and getting upgraded is a wonderful now and then is a really nice perk.
I honestly wish airline would eliminate free upgrades for silver and gold level statuses, and reserve that for just the top-tier.
You forgot to mention one important point that I see happening all the time. I can't remember the last time I flew on an international flight of a US based airline where there was an empty seat on business class. Now, there were seats available while prior to boarding but when the door closes, every seat is taken. Non-revenue passengers, either airline employees or family/friends. I have seen so many times passengers showing up at...
You forgot to mention one important point that I see happening all the time. I can't remember the last time I flew on an international flight of a US based airline where there was an empty seat on business class. Now, there were seats available while prior to boarding but when the door closes, every seat is taken. Non-revenue passengers, either airline employees or family/friends. I have seen so many times passengers showing up at the last minute on business class and it happens at least one of the FAs knows the passenger well to the point of taking selfies to spending a good amount of the flight time chatting with them.
You're underselling the fact that the airlines use this as an HR lever to perpetually underpay employees without having to pay much in the way of taxes. But what do I know, I don't wash my hands in the bathroom.
It seems like all the big 3 have figured out how to offer reasonably priced upgrades when the cabin is clearly forecasted not to sell out on long haul flights. Usually when only a couple seats left the upgrade price is just the difference between buying the paid fare. They could very easily create some good will by offering that reasonably priced upgrade in the days/hours before just to elites, and put a cap on...
It seems like all the big 3 have figured out how to offer reasonably priced upgrades when the cabin is clearly forecasted not to sell out on long haul flights. Usually when only a couple seats left the upgrade price is just the difference between buying the paid fare. They could very easily create some good will by offering that reasonably priced upgrade in the days/hours before just to elites, and put a cap on how often they can take advantage of those offers (again not to get them expecting they’ll receive those offers instead).
Isnt that exactly what they do??? Unless F is sold out there is always cash/miles upgrade in the app.
I do agree giving them away for free does dilute the product and creates expectation of future free upgrades. It also puts the GAs into a difficult position again.