Hawaii is one of the strictest states when it comes to testing and quarantine requirements for travelers. Those traveling to Hawaii either need to get tested within 72 hours of traveling to Hawaii, or need to quarantine for 14 days upon arrival.
It goes without saying that the 14 day quarantine option doesn’t (and shouldn’t) apply if you knowingly tested positive for coronavirus prior to flying to Hawaii, but it seems one couple didn’t quite get that memo.
A few days ago we first learned the story of a couple that knew they tested positive prior to flying to Hawaii, and we now have some more details on how exactly that happened.
In this post:
Couple tests positive for COVID-19, flies anyway
A couple has been arrested following an incident that occurred on a November 29 flight from San Francisco to Lihue. The couple was staying in Seattle and took a coronavirus test there. This is where things get complicated.
They then flew from Seattle to San Francisco to Lihue, and when they landed in San Francisco, they both discovered that they had tested positive for coronavirus.
Officials notified the couple of their test results, and told them to isolate, but they didn’t take that advice, and decided to continue on their flight to Lihue anyway.
When police in Hawaii were made aware of this, they met the plane on arrival, and arrested the couple. Both were charged with second-degree reckless endangering, and have been released on $1,000 bail.
A spokesperson for the Kauai police department said that “they knowingly boarded a flight aware of their positive COVID-19 test results, placing the passengers of the flight in danger of death.”
The couple was also traveling with their four year old son, who was handed over to a family member, and Child Protective Services was notified of the situation.
The couple has been banned from flying United, given that the airline requires passengers to acknowledge that they don’t have coronavirus (or any of the associated symptoms) when checking in.
Why this is a good reminder for anyone traveling
What the couple did was reckless, plain and simple. My only hope is that with good mask compliance on planes they didn’t infect anyone else along the journey with coronavirus.
However, the situation is a bit more complicated than we originally thought. Initially it sounded like the couple got their positive test results prior to starting their journey to Hawaii, and decided to fly anyway. In reality the couple found out their positive test results after they had already started their journey to Hawaii.
While it’s reckless, I can better appreciate how the couple got into this situation, and I think this is an important reminder.
The couple was from Hawaii, and they were returning home. It’s awful and irresponsible that they’d put other passengers at risk. This is unfortunately a situation anyone needs to be prepared for if they choose to travel, though. It’s bad enough to test positive while away from home, and even worse to test positive at your layover airport, in a city you may have no connection to at all.
If you choose to travel, are you prepared to potentially be quarantining in one place that’s not your home for two weeks? For some people this can be complicated financially and logistically. An extra two weeks of lodging expenses aren’t in many peoples’ budgets, and it probably gets even more complicated when you’re traveling with a kid and have no support.
To be clear, I’m not in any way excusing what the couple did. Rather I’m saying this because I think it’s an important reminder — if you choose to travel away from your home at a time when cases are as high as they are, be prepared for the risk and cost associated with it. Unfortunately it’s something many people likely don’t consider.
Bottom line
A couple has been arrested in Hawaii and charged with second-degree reckless endangering, having boarded a flight to Hawaii after receiving positive coronavirus test results. This situation was more complicated than many of us had initially assumed, in the sense that the couple found out about their positive test results during a layover in San Francisco, rather than before they started their journey.
That doesn’t in any way excuse what they did, but rather it’s a good reminder of how much can go wrong with travel in this era.
I’ll be curious to see how they end up being sentenced.
@Henry 1 in 5 young adults are NOT hospitalized from Covid. Where do people even come up with this kind of crap?
What I found interesting about this story is the connection in SFO, when there are three airlines offering nonstop flights from Seattle to Hawaii, with two offering direct flights SEA to LIH. By the timeline, it seems if they found out about their positive tests upon landing at SFO. So if they’d chosen a nonstop, they wouldn’t have found out about the positive tests until they landed on Hawaii (unless the airline flown offers inflight...
What I found interesting about this story is the connection in SFO, when there are three airlines offering nonstop flights from Seattle to Hawaii, with two offering direct flights SEA to LIH. By the timeline, it seems if they found out about their positive tests upon landing at SFO. So if they’d chosen a nonstop, they wouldn’t have found out about the positive tests until they landed on Hawaii (unless the airline flown offers inflight wifi). I guess we can assume UA had the lowest fare. I realize this is beside the point and they absolutely should not have boarded the second flight, but I just found that interesting. I am the type of flyer who will pay extra for a nonstop, to a degree. But I realize many travelers select the lowest fare with schedule being secondary.
@Andy
The death rate is another topic of contention. Should everyone who has covid and subsequently dies be counted as a covid death? I believe the .1% number mentioned refers to those who had no underlying conditions.
Oh and a Carrol for out times
https://youtu.be/otdwRAtuZVY
Oh the Nazis and Fascists would be so proud of all of you. Ready to convict and execute without a trial. Based solely on the report of a positive test, which could be inaccurate. Cases where someone had one side swabbed and test negative and the other side and test positive. Even with the most accurate test there are false positives, and false negatives.
But lets put that aside. I am not sure who...
Oh the Nazis and Fascists would be so proud of all of you. Ready to convict and execute without a trial. Based solely on the report of a positive test, which could be inaccurate. Cases where someone had one side swabbed and test negative and the other side and test positive. Even with the most accurate test there are false positives, and false negatives.
But lets put that aside. I am not sure who died and made you judge jury and executioner of anyone let alone a family who chose to get tested, but did not have results when they checked in, completed their trip. If it were a direct flight from Seattle would this even be a story? What if they had simply chosen the other option of a 14 day quarantine upon arrival, again this would not even be a story.
This is a horrible rock and a hard place situation we all are in, but China gets a free pass, and people who live in America, free until 2020, could before choose their own medical treatment. Vaccinate, don't, get the disease, don't its up to you but in this new environment of virtue signaling and social control, who knows what is next.
One last piece of food for thought: These people tested positive, but were they contagious? We do not know. How many others on the flight might have been positive, or contagious and not know or disclosed? That is the real issue. Until an accurate 20 minute test is developed provided free an hour before the flight, made mandatory, then all of this finger pointing is in vain as we really do not know if it is safe or not to fly.
They boarded the flight to Hawaii knowing they were infected. That ends the matter.
The fact they found out they were positive on a layover is, to me, neither here nor there.
They put people on two flights at risk. Unacceptable.
If the death rate is really .1% and 275,000 people died, then 275,000,000 people would have caught the virus by now. This is nearly the entire population of USA, so herd immunity would be already achieved and the virus should have stopped spreading.
Get real and stop spouting nonsense!
Pay them to quarantine or people will flee to their homes. What do you think happened when we found out this pandemic was coming from China and we invoked flight restrictions? Americans in China flew back home. Keep coming up with ridiculous laws to overcome a saturated pandemic with a .1% death rate.
Biggest winners out of Covid have been the corporations and will continue to prosper under Biden and over the 1st amendment.
This truly is a treasure trove of comments! Thanks for not disappointing 'muricans.
Covid is everywhere and its the couples responsibility to quarantine two weeks unpaid away from home? Risking passengers on a plane and calls for their punishment and worse? Excuse me if anyone decides to travel on a plane you CHOSE to put yourself in that situation, that's the shared risk you take.
Let them isolate at home 5 hours away, separate them by a few rows and be done with it. Now you have...
Covid is everywhere and its the couples responsibility to quarantine two weeks unpaid away from home? Risking passengers on a plane and calls for their punishment and worse? Excuse me if anyone decides to travel on a plane you CHOSE to put yourself in that situation, that's the shared risk you take.
Let them isolate at home 5 hours away, separate them by a few rows and be done with it. Now you have petty charges, two positive cases milling between a police station, hotel, and various eateries. That's some logic right there.
The same nonsense is going on with small business owners. Shutting them down deeming them non-essential and saying they are risking lives trying to make a living. California & New York are going to become the prime example of what not to do in a pandemic, because if you rely on the government for bailouts you are in for a rude awakening.
Couple wouldn't of been charged if they didn't pick up the phone, checkmate government.
$1000??? Should have been 1 Million at least. The nice part is that they were banned. Should be banned from flying any Airline and leth them rot at their home in Hawaii.
@Lars
You are technically correct with respect to the issue of PCR cycle numbers and CoVID positivity. However that issue is not exclusive to COVID and each lab can have varying standards as to how many cycles are required.
Switching to an antigen test would bring the opposite concern of having contagious people walking around with negative antigen tests.
You have no idea how much virus these folks were carrying. This doesn’t change...
@Lars
You are technically correct with respect to the issue of PCR cycle numbers and CoVID positivity. However that issue is not exclusive to COVID and each lab can have varying standards as to how many cycles are required.
Switching to an antigen test would bring the opposite concern of having contagious people walking around with negative antigen tests.
You have no idea how much virus these folks were carrying. This doesn’t change what this couple did...knowingly flew while “positive”, inexcusable.
@Dave you must complete a travel and health form in advance
Putting aside the couple's action of flying anyway.
How in the hell did the private medical information of a couple get relayed to an airline? And how so quickly? That is absolutely terrifying.
People deserve to know what exactly “positive” means with regard to a PCR test, as it doesn’t mean what most would think. The result does not indicate that an individual is contagious, nor does it mean that the person is symptomatic.
The PCR test works by “cycling DNA”. In essence this means growing dna until the specific thing you are looking for becomes observable. The problem isn’t that the test misidentifies the virus, but...
People deserve to know what exactly “positive” means with regard to a PCR test, as it doesn’t mean what most would think. The result does not indicate that an individual is contagious, nor does it mean that the person is symptomatic.
The PCR test works by “cycling DNA”. In essence this means growing dna until the specific thing you are looking for becomes observable. The problem isn’t that the test misidentifies the virus, but rather that it does not account for viral load, or the strength of the virus’s presence. If you cycle the DNA from a PCR test 50 times, you are far more likely to get a “positive” result, whereas the same sample may appear negative at 25 cycles. For this reason, PCR testing has never, until now, been used to attempt to diagnose viral infections. There simply is no way to determine “viral load” and therefore no way to distinguish between asymptomatic and noncontagious people vs those who are actually contagious.
A great many of us have harmless, de minimus loads of viruses and bacteriums which, at the right potency, are far worse than COVID-19, by the way. You’d be surprised what you are “positive” of if everything was tested for in this manner.
To Australian ears this revised account of what they did is incomprehensible. If we are tested, we are not asked, we are legally obliged to quarantine until we receive the results of the test, and if the test is positive, to self-isolate (or in some cases go into government run isolation) for 14 days or until a new test comes up clear. Most of our internal borders are now open, but we never had the...
To Australian ears this revised account of what they did is incomprehensible. If we are tested, we are not asked, we are legally obliged to quarantine until we receive the results of the test, and if the test is positive, to self-isolate (or in some cases go into government run isolation) for 14 days or until a new test comes up clear. Most of our internal borders are now open, but we never had the option of being tested to travel or to avoid quarantine. Either borders were closed with some cross-border permits in limited cases, or a 14 day quarantine was required. Of course those arrangements weren't foolproof, people did avoid the border rules, but they were clear so it was difficult to claim ignorance. And yes, there have been mistakes by the authorities as well as rule avoidance by members of the public.
I also wonder if this could have been avoided had they flown nonstop from Seattle to Lihue.
This will only make things worse. I agree that what they did was irresponsible but this will only boost the sentiment which is already growing in the society, that it is better to not get tested if one has mild syptoms so that authorities aren't notified. If these people never took the test, there would be no legal consequences. Unfortunatelly, I have met way too many people who are thinking this way.
When seeking health...
This will only make things worse. I agree that what they did was irresponsible but this will only boost the sentiment which is already growing in the society, that it is better to not get tested if one has mild syptoms so that authorities aren't notified. If these people never took the test, there would be no legal consequences. Unfortunatelly, I have met way too many people who are thinking this way.
When seeking health care for infectious disease carries possible negative consequences (yes, even in form of a punishment for a dumb behaviour), it's never good for the public health.
@Samuel
With respect to Covid how does one even determine what is disinformation and what is not. I will give you an excellent example - it is often said that if masks do not work, then why are doctors wearing them yet numerous health care workers at hospitals throughout the world are still getting covid. So one could make the conclusion that masks are useless because health care workers wear them yet still get infected....
@Samuel
With respect to Covid how does one even determine what is disinformation and what is not. I will give you an excellent example - it is often said that if masks do not work, then why are doctors wearing them yet numerous health care workers at hospitals throughout the world are still getting covid. So one could make the conclusion that masks are useless because health care workers wear them yet still get infected. I do use a mask in public places but clearly if they were as successful at preventing infection as some in the media make them out to be then the health care workers would not be getting sick. Additionally the health care workers are using N95/KN95 masks whereas the government still recommends against their use by the public and recommends cloth, etc. which obviously are not as good as an N95. Too many people are led to believe that if they wear the mask, they will be safe and that is simply not true. Social distancing and not just six feet is substantially more important and the doctor example at least offers circumstantial evidence that this is more important than a mask. I have personally tried to limit my exposure to other people to such an extent as to not even need a mask - I rented a house in a rural area where there are very few people. Of course, at the grocery store, I would use the mask but out walking dirt roads, I found no necessity.
@Samuel, feel free to give some examples of the disinformation you see.
The amount of disinformation being spread about covid in this blog is downright shameful.
PCR tests have very low false positivity rates -- since both husband and wife tested positive, the likelihood of a false positive is near zero. therefore yes, they were definitely infected.
Of course this is grounds for holding them, and the reckless endangerment charge is justified. And if anybody who was on that flight or their relative dies of covid, they could face manslaughter charges.
As for medical privacy laws, there are situations...
PCR tests have very low false positivity rates -- since both husband and wife tested positive, the likelihood of a false positive is near zero. therefore yes, they were definitely infected.
Of course this is grounds for holding them, and the reckless endangerment charge is justified. And if anybody who was on that flight or their relative dies of covid, they could face manslaughter charges.
As for medical privacy laws, there are situations when those don't apply. For example, sometimes medical professionals have to tell the police if they see evidence of abuse or other crimes. In this case, if they had stopped these people from flying, they might have saved a life (emphasis on might)
It's not too much to ask for them to just wait until they are well again. I don't really care what hardship that would have been for them.
Only in America are people proud of their selfishness! (I am American so I am not saying this to be intolerant, just stating an observation.)
When it comes to selfishness, Americans never disappoint
What this couple did is morally very questionable if not wrong.
But for those that are convinced that lockdowns work and all everyone needs to do is wear a mask, look at Europe and Latin America to see that their PER CAPITA (population averaged) death rates are within a few percent of the US and in many cases higher than the US.
Europe aggressively locked down once, had strict regulations against movement, and mandatory...
What this couple did is morally very questionable if not wrong.
But for those that are convinced that lockdowns work and all everyone needs to do is wear a mask, look at Europe and Latin America to see that their PER CAPITA (population averaged) death rates are within a few percent of the US and in many cases higher than the US.
Europe aggressively locked down once, had strict regulations against movement, and mandatory mask mandates - and their per capita death rates are on par with the US and in many cases growing as fast as the US. Latin America has locked down to varying degrees and the death rates aren't much different between countries that did lock down and those that didn't - and they aren't that much different from the US or Europe.
Yes, Taiwan has had very low case counts but they had their own intelligence that knew there was something wrong in Wuhan and acted to protect their own country long before the rest of the world even acknowledged there was a problem.
NZ and Australia are island countries. It's not hard to keep most things out when you have no land borders and stop air travel.
More and more immunologists believe part of the reason for the low case rates in E. Asia is because they have been exposed to many more similar viruses as a result of multiple diseases in that part of the world which didn't spread to most of the rest of the world. Given that US flu counts are coming in lower for this year, there is a possibility of cross immunization.
No country or state has figured out an appropriate balance between limiting the spread of the disease and locking people down.
Most of the western world have free market democracies. While people need to act responsibly, governments - and not just in the US - will fall based on the handling of this virus. There is a limit to what countries can do without taking away the very power that put those governments in place.
I've come to the conclusion now that those who don't want to wear masks or who don't believe in the virus can do whatever they want. However (and this is a big however) when they get sick, they damn well better not go crying to the nearest hospital. They can stay home and leave the hospital care to those who really deserve it.
First few posts in every thread seem to be some covid truther bullshit downplaying the pandemic. Need to start deleting posts because it's just downright harmful leaving it up.
LOL @David! That's perfect!
Death penalty!
@Kelly Loeffler
I could go off on a rant but I'll leave it at "you are truly an idiot". Your cynicism and lack of knowledge is astounding. Please wear an N95 mask or KN95 from China (same FFP002 filtration standard per FDA) and keep your cooties to yourself!
@R Johnson
This is the same logic of because I don't have money to pay for my food, thus I steal. I might share my personal sympathy for them if it's the case you described.
However, it's November/December already. This is not the first few weeks of pandemic. Knowing the risk and they intended to travel to California, no money is no excuse. Plus, there is ALWAYS another better way to deal with this situation.
Per the article "According to police, the couple had tested positive for coronavirus prior to travel, and was informed by officials at San Francisco International Airport not to travel."
Why would these officials allow them to travel if they knew they were infected? If anyone is to be arrested it should be them for knowingly allowing infected passengers to travel. And if for some reason they assumed the passengers would not travel, and there is...
Per the article "According to police, the couple had tested positive for coronavirus prior to travel, and was informed by officials at San Francisco International Airport not to travel."
Why would these officials allow them to travel if they knew they were infected? If anyone is to be arrested it should be them for knowingly allowing infected passengers to travel. And if for some reason they assumed the passengers would not travel, and there is not follow through with the airlines, then the system is completely broken.
No one cares about anything but themselves anymore. It’s the new normal. Just deal with it. God help us.
These folks were from Hawaii, were probably out of money and didn't know what else to do. While San Francisco is a leper colony in general, these folks would even be considered lepers there. I'd be they didn't try and hurt people, they probably just didn't know where to go for help given their condition and being out of state. They certainly could not drive home.
@David nailed it
If this country weren't so filled with the "gubmint not gunna tell me what to do" mentality, we could have decimated this thing in one month back in March.
I have traveled by plane twice since the pandemic begin and was fully aware of the risk that I might become ill and have to quarantine for 2 weeks (or more) at my destination, as well as the potential associated expense. As you pointed out, Ben, this is something that perhaps some folks don’t think about but they should. You can’t just get on a plane and head home should you have symptoms or especially...
I have traveled by plane twice since the pandemic begin and was fully aware of the risk that I might become ill and have to quarantine for 2 weeks (or more) at my destination, as well as the potential associated expense. As you pointed out, Ben, this is something that perhaps some folks don’t think about but they should. You can’t just get on a plane and head home should you have symptoms or especially if you test positive. Absolutely reckless and criminal. No one should travel if they aren’t prepared to stay at least an extra 2 weeks at their destination.
rather than focus on this Karen and her OH, did United/State do contact tracing for those sitting near them? Do they get quarantined after bail?
"Personally I accept the idea that I can (and easily) be drinking and driving. Instead of running around being a “Karen” I focus on getting a big car and building up my drinking tolerance because if I have a proper lifestyle I have a very near 100% chance that drinking and driving will be a non issue for me. I likely won’t even know that I've hit a few pedestrians. In other words, I haven’t altered my lifestyle and hidden in my basement."
@Abey, They were released on bail because they are probably more dangerous to others in a small confined space that no one is allowed to leave. That's why jails are one of the primary transmission vectors. Someone with COVID gets arrested, gives it to other prisoners, guards, visitors, etc. Pretty soon the re is a major outbreak.
Truly reckless behavior like this ensures that the pandemic will continue to persist.
Hopefully this couple can take some time to think about what they've done and use it as an opportunity to make a change.
When “punishment” isn’t exactly heavy, people will continue to do what they want to do: see exhibit in this article. It should be pretty evident by now that when the punishment is heavy, people behave one way (see China). When there is little or no punishment, people behave another way (see USA). And of course there is something in the middle like Taiwan and New Zealand where they lock down for a bit and now...
When “punishment” isn’t exactly heavy, people will continue to do what they want to do: see exhibit in this article. It should be pretty evident by now that when the punishment is heavy, people behave one way (see China). When there is little or no punishment, people behave another way (see USA). And of course there is something in the middle like Taiwan and New Zealand where they lock down for a bit and now no one are required to wear masks and everyone go on their happy way to concerts, restaurants, and spend time with family. Which one would you choose?
@kelly loeffler
Perfect idea! On that note, I see no reason why pilots shouldn't be able to fly airplanes while drunk. If people are uncomfortable with that and don't want to die they can just stay home, right? While we're at it let's just get rid of all laws in America that make it a crime to harm someone else and if people are uncomfortable with that they can just stay home, right?
I know of multiple people that have had cooties and traveled on planes recently. These people just caught because of Hawaii rules. All of these people that believe in cooties and want to take "precautions" and act like they are traveling safely or going out and about safely are total hypocrites... the only 100% way for them to stop their spread is to stay the hell home. Having a 2 cent face diaper that was...
I know of multiple people that have had cooties and traveled on planes recently. These people just caught because of Hawaii rules. All of these people that believe in cooties and want to take "precautions" and act like they are traveling safely or going out and about safely are total hypocrites... the only 100% way for them to stop their spread is to stay the hell home. Having a 2 cent face diaper that was made in China strapped to their face is not a guarantee to stop all spread... it would be like a drunk driver wearing a seat belt and expecting everything to be OK as he blows through a school zone at 90mph.
@Luke
I don’t agree with you labeling me an anti masker. That implies I don’t wear a mask at all and have zero regard for others. I believe I should wear a mask when inside a supermarket. I believe I should wear a mask when I’m on an aircraft. I don’t believe in shutting down society and ruining people’s livelihoods because there’s a .000000001% chance I may die of Covid. Meanwhile the same lawmakers enforcing...
@Luke
I don’t agree with you labeling me an anti masker. That implies I don’t wear a mask at all and have zero regard for others. I believe I should wear a mask when inside a supermarket. I believe I should wear a mask when I’m on an aircraft. I don’t believe in shutting down society and ruining people’s livelihoods because there’s a .000000001% chance I may die of Covid. Meanwhile the same lawmakers enforcing these shutdowns are dining out and will be spending Christmas in Hawaii.
Should have gone to Turkey instead
American "exceptionalism" never fails to disappoint. Hawaii should just close to mainland visitors until the vaccines roll out and blame these two morons. Publicly.
This one is probably headed all the way to the Supreme Court... so many red flags. Nothing ‘goes without saying’ in a court. A positive test for a person experiencing no symptoms isn’t having coronavirus and just who shared two individual’s private medical results with an airline and the local police...
I don’t believe any court will legally side with prohibiting a resident returning to their home state on the basis of them possibly being a danger to other people.
If we are talking about selfish Americans, let's start with selfish and narcissistic politicians who issue rules and regulations, and then don't follow the rules they expect everyone else to abide by.
I'm talking to you California Democrats....
There is no point in making this distinction in a public health context, unless you are implying that the false-positivity rate is sufficiently high to make...
There is no point in making this distinction in a public health context, unless you are implying that the false-positivity rate is sufficiently high to make the test meaningless.
Put another way, even if the false-positivity rate is something like 5-7%, it is highly improbable that both the husband and the wife would test positive in this case.
I don't think most American anti-maskers would even be dumb enough to believe what you seem to imply, which is that a PCR test has no diagnostic value in setting public health policy.
@cariverga - And since when a court in Portugal has jurisdiction in America?
Love this story!
... just shows how people care about the risk of others.
Especially in the US.
Of course Hawaii is out of the way and usually only available by plane if you want to go home, but endangering others is a total NO GO.
Maybe that couple just believes the bullshit A... Trump says, that would explain a lot on there behavior.
...... if he says it's like...
Love this story!
... just shows how people care about the risk of others.
Especially in the US.
Of course Hawaii is out of the way and usually only available by plane if you want to go home, but endangering others is a total NO GO.
Maybe that couple just believes the bullshit A... Trump says, that would explain a lot on there behavior.
...... if he says it's like the flue, everything is OK.
I love remembering the times, when people in the US still had there own mind to be used. (1962, was the time, one of them)
It wasn't "Knowingly Flying To Hawaii With Coronavirus".
It was flying after having a positive test.
Why are you spreading misinformation?
A court in Portugal has already established that a PCR result can not be a basis for quarantine (let alone arrest!). Goodness...
I'm just here for the comments. Americans NEVER disappoint!
@George
If you only see a couple of people infected with COVID and got a cold like symptoms, you may think it is a non-issue for you. But 1 in 5 chances of young adults are actually severe enough need to be hospitalized, let alone you have some possibilities to become disabled though you are indeed not included in the number of death due to covid. This is just the part of the issue...
@George
If you only see a couple of people infected with COVID and got a cold like symptoms, you may think it is a non-issue for you. But 1 in 5 chances of young adults are actually severe enough need to be hospitalized, let alone you have some possibilities to become disabled though you are indeed not included in the number of death due to covid. This is just the part of the issue actually, covid can spread extremely fast, flooding the ER/inpatient of the hospitals, many of us could just end up with terribly dead or much worse than we can think simply because no one to treat you or do not have time to look at you.
But another things are just to think for your parents or if you care about someone elder, if 200 people were hospitalized at the same time in a hospital with only 50 as its capacity, 50 of them are young and 150 are elder, what is the story for those 150 would be. If only 25 young adults are hospitalized at that time, additional 25 elders may get a better chances to survive.
@Mitch - no they were Hawaiian residents but that really doesn't matter.
Definitely mainlainders looking to save their vacation plans. Hawaii should just ban all visitors, because Hawaiian locals would never be irresponsible like this couple.
In this article (and many others I have seen throughout the media and travel blogs), the terms quarantine and isolation are used interchangeably. This couple needs to isolate, because they are positive. Quarantine is what you do before you test positive; for example, when a close contact turns positive. Minor difference, but the CDC has a nice handout on the difference.
@jetset - AMEN!
What's simply jarring, still, is that so many folks in other forums (and here, I have seen) continue to complain about mask wearing because they insist it is unimportant to avoid a tiny change in one's behavior. Folks still look at people who are wearing masks like they are idiots because they believe the wearer thinks they are protecting themselves. That's not the point. That's not why people wear masks. It's...
@jetset - AMEN!
What's simply jarring, still, is that so many folks in other forums (and here, I have seen) continue to complain about mask wearing because they insist it is unimportant to avoid a tiny change in one's behavior. Folks still look at people who are wearing masks like they are idiots because they believe the wearer thinks they are protecting themselves. That's not the point. That's not why people wear masks. It's been proven over and over and over again that a basic cloth or surgical mask significantly blocks the wearer's germs from getting out into the breathable air others may have to breathe. It is simple bloody science. No one's being asked to cover their entire heads with a burlap sack. Why is this hard for people to understand - or care? If this pandemic has taught us anything, it's the sheer selfishness and willful ignorance of a large swath of the American people. One's refusal to protect others by wearing a mask is just as reckless as what this couple did. That folks in these threads are unwilling to put a simple mask on but can easily trust the complex machinery of an airplane is baffling!
Totally selfish. And like @Abey mentioned, why were they released on bail? That obviously defeats the purpose of a quarantine, which is clearly what those idiots would need to do, but won't.
To those in the comments who act like the virus won't effect them because of their age or lifestyle or whatever, you sound moronic. Plenty of otherwise healthy adults get very sick (or even die) from Covid. Your ignorance is disgusting but not surprising.
@jetset - You are absolutely right. But I'm afraid it's not enough to persuade people with that type of mentality to behave. After seeing someone say that "I don't want to be responsible for other people's health", I've lost the hope that Covid can be contained in America without effective vaccination.
IT'S. NOT. ALL. ABOUT. YOU.
Somehow we are nearly a year into this pandemic and people don't seem to realize (or care) that generally "healthy" individuals can carry this disease and infect others who are not so fortunate. People with respiratory issues, who are elderly, who are cancer survivors, who are pregnant... they desperately need others to wear masks and social distance. We are a few months away from being able to get vaccines. Please......
IT'S. NOT. ALL. ABOUT. YOU.
Somehow we are nearly a year into this pandemic and people don't seem to realize (or care) that generally "healthy" individuals can carry this disease and infect others who are not so fortunate. People with respiratory issues, who are elderly, who are cancer survivors, who are pregnant... they desperately need others to wear masks and social distance. We are a few months away from being able to get vaccines. Please... PLEASE show a shred of consideration for your fellow man and do what you can to stop the spread of a virus that has already killed way too many people.
Please force isolating and imprison them for good. This is the example you take freedom too far and we need to make an example with.
Humans expire after time on earth. So, it's an odd thing to measure a direct "death" link to this virus from Asia.
As a frequent traveler, I am amazed at how many men use the restroom and do not wash their hands afterward.
Germs travel easily. We all should be more careful in general.
And, yes, I am not concerned at all that this virus will affect me (other than the financial impact which is actually a positive thing).
Why were they released on bail? That should be kept enforceable quarantine as they have probably infected other already once
I hope that even the anti-maskers can agree this is dangerous and stupid, and that the reckless endangerment charge is justified.
There were a lot of responses to this story in other forums mentioning the fact that this couple had limited alternatives (for many staying in a hotel for 2 weeks may not be a viable alternative) but I think you hit the nail on the head with your takeaway that you need to be prepared to deal with that hardship if you're choosing to travel during a pandemic.
No one is forced to travel except...
There were a lot of responses to this story in other forums mentioning the fact that this couple had limited alternatives (for many staying in a hotel for 2 weeks may not be a viable alternative) but I think you hit the nail on the head with your takeaway that you need to be prepared to deal with that hardship if you're choosing to travel during a pandemic.
No one is forced to travel except for extenuating circumstances (e.g. death of a family member) though presumably in that instance you'd have options to stay with family if you tested positive. And given how effective I've found social distancing and mask wearing to be, living in a major city that has had periods of high positivity rates but still testing negative and with no antibodies, if you want to avoid it you should be able to even if traveling for extenuating circumstances. So I don't have much sympathy for this family.
As for comments like @George Romey above - this mentality is the whole reason we're having issues in the US. I'm a healthy 30-something - I have no concern whatsoever that I will have major health consequences from COVID. That's not why I'm changing my lifestyle this year and staying in more. I'm changing my lifestyle because the more healthy people we have going about their normal daily lives, the more we have unmitigated spread. The more unmitigated spread we have, the more impossible it is for the vulnerable in our society to avoid it (think about workers at nursing homes who have to go grocery shopping and interact with young healthy careless people like yourself who may be infected, cause them to be infected, and they bring it back to the nursing home). This inevitably leads to more deaths and overwhelmed hospitals and healthcare workers.
So it's nice that you have no fears this year and don't find any need to alter your lifestyle but don't act like you can somehow remove yourself from the egregious and rising death toll as we now sit at 275k lives lost this year in the US alone.
@ George Romey “I haven’t altered my lifestyle” This is precisely why we can’t have nice things. What a selfish prerogative. The point is that even though there may be a low likelihood of health consequences for you- you can easily infect people around you because of your own negligence- resulting in possible death for those with medical conditions or the elderly.
This is not about your willingness to travel to Hawaii and contend...
@ George Romey “I haven’t altered my lifestyle” This is precisely why we can’t have nice things. What a selfish prerogative. The point is that even though there may be a low likelihood of health consequences for you- you can easily infect people around you because of your own negligence- resulting in possible death for those with medical conditions or the elderly.
This is not about your willingness to travel to Hawaii and contend with the restrictions and testing protocols, the article above that Ben wrote is about people’s own selfishness and willingness to put others at risk. COVID-19 has revealed human selfishness in a way many of us have not seen so clearly before, and @ George Romey- you are a perfect example.
Personally I accept the idea that I can (and easily) be infected with the Corona virus. Instead of running around being a "Karen" I focus on my health instead because if I have a proper lifestyle I have a very near 100% chance that the Corona virus will be a non issue for me. I likely won't even know that I have it. In other words, I haven't altered my lifestyle and hidden in my...
Personally I accept the idea that I can (and easily) be infected with the Corona virus. Instead of running around being a "Karen" I focus on my health instead because if I have a proper lifestyle I have a very near 100% chance that the Corona virus will be a non issue for me. I likely won't even know that I have it. In other words, I haven't altered my lifestyle and hidden in my basement.
That being said, no how no way I'd travel to HI (and I understand these people were from HI) because the hassle of getting a test right before I travel isn't worth it. Also, this smacks of a little too much of big brother to me.
Interesting I went to my sister in laws family house for Thanksgiving. Her niece, her husband and their 3 kids all came down with colds this past summer and of course had to run to the doctors. No surprise the doctor said you all have COVID 19 (which I say in jest). What were their "health issues." A running nose and some sinus ache. They spent 2 weeks watching movies and playing games.
Karenavirus ugh (KAVID-19)