Update: The CAAC backtracked quickly, and US airlines can now resume service to China. However, the DOT has also ruled that Chinese airlines will have to reduce service to the US. An agreement was finally reached that will see US airlines resuming 4x weekly flights.
The United States is introducing a new China travel ban, which would spell the end of nonstop flights between the US and mainland China (for now). Unlike the China travel ban instituted in early February, this one isn’t about COVID-19, but rather is about a growing aviation spat between the US and China.
Maybe I’m biased, but in this case I think the US is 100% correct.
In this post:
US bans Chinese passenger flights as of June 16
As of June 16, 2020, the United States Department of Transportation will order the suspension of all scheduled passenger flights of Chinese airlines to and from the United States. This is specific to airlines in mainland China, so wouldn’t apply to airlines based in Hong Kong or Taiwan.
Currently four Chinese airlines operate scheduled flights between the United States and China — Air China, China Eastern, China Southern, and Xiamen Air. Meanwhile no US airlines operate these flights, though at least Delta and United would like to resume China flights this month.
United wants to resume China flights this month, but can’t get permission
The problem is that China isn’t allowing this, due to what the US considers to be a pretty arbitrary restriction.
What’s going on between the US and China?
Unlike much of the rest of the world, China doesn’t belong to the Open Skies agreement, with greatly liberates the routes that airlines can fly. Instead China relies on bilateral agreements, so all flights between the United States and China are permitted based on that agreement.
The problem is that while Chinese airlines are allowed to fly to the US, China is refusing to grant US airlines that same privilege.
China Southern continues to operate flights to the US
What exactly is going on here, and why is China restricting US airlines?
- US airlines discontinued all flights to mainland China by early February 2020, in light of travel restrictions and the pandemic
- Chinese airlines never completely cut service between the US and China; by mid-February Chinese airlines operated a combined 20 weekly frequencies to the US, while by mid-March Chinese airlines operated a combined 34 weekly frequencies to the US
- On March 26, 2020, China issued new regulations allowing airlines to operate a single weekly flight to a single destination in each country
- China at that point claimed that the maximum service airlines could offer to China was equivalent to the flights that they had as of March 12; in other words, if airlines weren’t flying to China as of March 12, then they wouldn’t be allowed to fly to China at all
- China is using an arbitrary baseline date for these restrictions to argue that US airlines shouldn’t be allowed to provide any service to the country
- The agreement between the US and China is supposed to “achieve equality of opportunity reasonable balance, and mutual benefit,” and that’s clearly not the case with China’s arbitrary restrictions
China Eastern continues to operate flights to the US
Bottom line
The US Department of Transportation is spot on here, in my opinion. China created an arbitrary restriction backdated a couple of weeks that essentially precludes US airlines from offering any service to China, even though Chinese airlines can fly to the US.
One would think that China will take this seriously, though the Chinese government often isn’t a huge fan of negotiating, so we’ll see how this evolves…
@ Dennis
I can promise you that if American looters try to do what they are doing here in China, they will be dealt with promptly.
~ The Honorable Reginald
Dig deeper to find out the tension between China and US. Military, trade, technology, intellectual property protection, human rights, and many others. This is just the beginning. There’s no trust, because I’ve been following all these and look around you’ll be shocked.
@Callum
People will vote for anyone but Trump. Biden is now the favorite in Las Vegas. If Biden becomes president his VP will end up being president at some point if he can’t complete a whole term. China will be well on the path to being world superpower by 2035.
Mark - People will refuse to vote for Biden because Sharon unfairly blames Trump for a lack of air connectivity with China? What are you smoking!
I find the idea that people will sit and watch Trump order attacks on peaceful protesters and desecrate Churches and be fine, but flip out if someone says something a little bit unfair, hilarious yet depressing. A good slogan for the US in general actually.
Flights will resume between the US and China by the end of the year. Have some patience people. President Xi and China will be dealt with. If Trump is re-elected US China tensions will slowly de escalate over the next couple of years. It won’t happen overnight.
Andy why don’t u STFU and go blog on some Chinese site! You are wasting our air!
Ah Tiffany, I really admire your poise, keep it up!! I'm black and it has never crossed my mind to question the lack of non-white writers on this blog, cos I don't think it's necessary, at least not for the scope of this blog. No doubt travelers of color may have different experiences, but I personally don't blame people who were born with privileges- not of their making- for having those privileges. It's true that...
Ah Tiffany, I really admire your poise, keep it up!! I'm black and it has never crossed my mind to question the lack of non-white writers on this blog, cos I don't think it's necessary, at least not for the scope of this blog. No doubt travelers of color may have different experiences, but I personally don't blame people who were born with privileges- not of their making- for having those privileges. It's true that at times such people are oblivious to those privileges, but I think most do have good intentions, and when they know better, they do better. If you find a contributor with great content who happens to be black....(or a heterosexual male :p), that would be nice, but do not choose just cos the writer is black, or straight.. I'm African black, from a country with a "shitty" passport so it's even worse when I travel but I still enjoy most of the posts here. There are blogs for such
Anyway it appears that China has eased some of those restrictions, let's see how that goes
@Ross Trump is playing a political game. Your blind hatred for Trump is obvious. Mind you, Trump didn't create most of the problems the US is facing today. He's not much of a solution, but those problems existed long before him, and none of the past few administrations have done much to make them better either.
In regard to this decision, there are two facts people need to consider. First, the vast majority of foreigners...
@Ross Trump is playing a political game. Your blind hatred for Trump is obvious. Mind you, Trump didn't create most of the problems the US is facing today. He's not much of a solution, but those problems existed long before him, and none of the past few administrations have done much to make them better either.
In regard to this decision, there are two facts people need to consider. First, the vast majority of foreigners aren't even allowed into China at the moment. So these flights are mainly operated to provide Chinese nationals a way back. Second, there was previously essentially a monopoly on these routes, as Chinese carriers could fly each route once per week, while foreign carriers could only operate one route per week. The Chinese carriers have totally price-gouged there own citizens, charging around 10x (or more) what they normally charge for a seat. If this decision forces the Chinese government to the negotiating table, it's probably a good thing for the consumer (in this case, mostly Chinese nationals looking to come home who can't find reasonable flights).
If the Chinese government really wanted to get their students home, they could send more repatriation flights on Chinese carriers and all of them can be home within a week.
Price gauging on these flights is due to limited supply vs demand, and it also include Chinese carriers. Yes we can all say it is not right to make a profit during the pandemic, but how many of us would actually do that if is...
If the Chinese government really wanted to get their students home, they could send more repatriation flights on Chinese carriers and all of them can be home within a week.
Price gauging on these flights is due to limited supply vs demand, and it also include Chinese carriers. Yes we can all say it is not right to make a profit during the pandemic, but how many of us would actually do that if is our own airline that's bleeding capital by the minute?
The underlying reason is that China really don't want people from the US (regardless of nationality), to get into their border right now because of how bad covid-19 is in America. All of their "claimed new cases" are foreign introduced, so it is in their best interest to slowly repatriate their citizens. They cannot harm over a billion people just to bring back a few thousand. There is also a strong resentment in China toward expats and students because "they leave when they thougjt the outside world is better, and now they want to come back to the motherland because it is dangerous out there".
I am not a fan of Trump either, he totally botched the COVID response and cost many lives, the racism and male chauvinism are embarrassing. However he is doing a hell of a great job when it comes to China.
Air Canada will be pleased to hear this. They are probably having a field day.
@jkjkjk The US has had more cases than anywhere in the world; it has also tested more of its population than any large country. Several days last week, the US ran 500k tests per day.
The key is that the positivity rate of tests is now extremely low; hospitalizations and deaths have been on the decline for weeks. To pretend like the US is some hotbed of infection today, in early June, is ridiculous. That's...
@jkjkjk The US has had more cases than anywhere in the world; it has also tested more of its population than any large country. Several days last week, the US ran 500k tests per day.
The key is that the positivity rate of tests is now extremely low; hospitalizations and deaths have been on the decline for weeks. To pretend like the US is some hotbed of infection today, in early June, is ridiculous. That's like saying Italy and Spain were still epicenters of the virus in early May.
To say nothing of the fact that Covid-19 is, in the overwhelming majority of cases, not a deadly disease. According to the CDC's recent numbers, the case fatality rate is 0.4% in the general population; this declines to 0.26% in people under the age of 70. For healthy people under the age of 60, Covid-19 is several times less deadly than the seasonal flu.
But get along, l'il doggie. Stay scared in your basement "until there's a vaccine"; go on believing that Trump, as much as none of us really like him, is worse for America and for the world than Xi Jinping.
US had 1.89 million cases. Which country would want us to go to their country. It’s about time before rest of the world cut us off. World leader. Be smart and protect your citizens.
I hate Trump, but I have just one leader whom I hate more than Trump : Xi.
Looks childish but China asked for it...
Korea is also gettig quite unfair treatment (10/wk allowed btw KR and PRC - 7 by Chinese only 3 by Korean) - we probably should be doing what Trump does.
It is not like China is allowing many foreign airlines to fly. In fact, quite the opposite very few, so I'm not sure why the US thinks they have some sort of priority here. Further, this will create more issues to come with regards to students, tourists, and others that are "stuck" in the US.
If this ban is in effect through all summer means... no more hordes of Chinese tourists invading everywhere in the US! my dream!
The service on all Chinese and American airlines is terrible over the Pacific. None of them would be missed!!!
@ Robert Schrader “It never ceases to amaze me how many readers of this blog are happy to go to bat for the Chinese Communist Party”
It never ceases to amaze me how President Trump is happy to go to bat for its leader.
“China has been working very hard to contain the Coronavirus. The United States greatly appreciates their efforts and transparency. It will all work out well. In particular, on behalf of the...
@ Robert Schrader “It never ceases to amaze me how many readers of this blog are happy to go to bat for the Chinese Communist Party”
It never ceases to amaze me how President Trump is happy to go to bat for its leader.
“China has been working very hard to contain the Coronavirus. The United States greatly appreciates their efforts and transparency. It will all work out well. In particular, on behalf of the American People, I want to thank President Xi!” – January 24, 2020
“Just finished a very good conversation with President Xi of China. Discussed in great detail the CoronaVirus that is ravaging large parts of our Planet. China has been through much & has developed a strong understanding of the Virus. We are working closely together. Much respect!” – March 26, 2020
@Ross
I dont 'Apple'....never owned an iphone. Always Samsungs.
Using Samsung Galaxy S20+ (Korean). Love it by by the way.
But yes, tons of stuff we buy 'made in China'. China needs to be sidelined a bit...other 'low cost' countries happy to fill the manufacturing void - Vietnam, India, Indonesia, Turkey etc.
China knows this...hence their belligerent attitude the last few yrs. They are nervous, panicking a bit...
Europe + USA...
@Ross
I dont 'Apple'....never owned an iphone. Always Samsungs.
Using Samsung Galaxy S20+ (Korean). Love it by by the way.
But yes, tons of stuff we buy 'made in China'. China needs to be sidelined a bit...other 'low cost' countries happy to fill the manufacturing void - Vietnam, India, Indonesia, Turkey etc.
China knows this...hence their belligerent attitude the last few yrs. They are nervous, panicking a bit...
Europe + USA getting tired of China BS, starting to look for alternate manufacturing partners.
It never ceases to amaze me how many readers of this blog are happy to go to bat for the Chinese Communist Party. On the anniversary (at least according to China's time zone) of the Tian'anmen Square Massacre, no less!
At any rate, this is a necessary move, albeit a belated one. I'm not sure how many people realize it, but with the exception of foreign travelers originating in China, Europe and now Brazil, America's...
It never ceases to amaze me how many readers of this blog are happy to go to bat for the Chinese Communist Party. On the anniversary (at least according to China's time zone) of the Tian'anmen Square Massacre, no less!
At any rate, this is a necessary move, albeit a belated one. I'm not sure how many people realize it, but with the exception of foreign travelers originating in China, Europe and now Brazil, America's borders are wide open. This, while almost 100% of other countries have partially or totally closed borders, to US and citizens and most everyone else.
Coronavirus is not the Bubonic Plague; the epidemic of this not-so-deadly disease is receding in most of the world as it is. Moves like this one might seem extreme, but in my opinion are the only way to force the bilateral talks necessary to re-open the borders and air corridors of the world.
Alternatively, we can wait for the "advocacy campaign" just launched by ICAO and IATA to grease the wheels, which I guess will take until 2022 or 2023.
@Tiffany
I appreciate your assistance, the work you do, and the position you're in. I guess the distinction is between contributors and writers.
From your own site, you identify (with photos): Tiffany, Travis, Kate, Steph, Nick, Andrew, Mike, and the author's husband, Ford.
Acknowledging that you need to do better is a great first step and I wish you nothing but the best in that continuing process. After all, if the author...
@Tiffany
I appreciate your assistance, the work you do, and the position you're in. I guess the distinction is between contributors and writers.
From your own site, you identify (with photos): Tiffany, Travis, Kate, Steph, Nick, Andrew, Mike, and the author's husband, Ford.
Acknowledging that you need to do better is a great first step and I wish you nothing but the best in that continuing process. After all, if the author can address the issue of offsetting carbon footprints (with a permanent dedicate link to his article about his efforts), I'm hoping he can do the same on this issue (without linking to someone else's article via a banner and no other mention).
@ Donna -- I appreciate that, and of course get that you're coming from a place of good intentions. Constructive feedback is always helpful.
We do have something more thorough drafted, but are still working through a lot of the tone and phrasing. It's not about us, so getting that balance of being personable without sounding didactic is requiring some thoughtful exploration.
Screw China. If they aren't following the agreement. Get rid of them. They started all this mess.
I don’t think China is only targeting or restricting flights coming from the US. Due to covid19, they are temporary doing this to other countries/locations as well so they can take the require measurements and keep the spreading under control from people coming overseas. For example with CX there is only 2 to 3 direct flights available per week from HKG to PEK.
IF Trump wins election China will absolutely torch the US economy! These plans are already underway in China, hands down.
Joe Biden will save us
We're just talking passenger airlines here, right? FedEx and other US cargo carriers are still operating flights to China, it appears.
What if everyone posting here had to identify whether they are using a Chinese-made Apple device.
@ Grant
Sorry, your point is so off the charts.
I have flown all napes of airlines and have more trust in Western carriers.
To simply state that these carriers bring in tax revenue and business is not valid. Are these revenues and taxes unique to Chinese carriers?
For the record, my theory is that if we went back and did an honest cost analysis of all that has happened in...
@ Grant
Sorry, your point is so off the charts.
I have flown all napes of airlines and have more trust in Western carriers.
To simply state that these carriers bring in tax revenue and business is not valid. Are these revenues and taxes unique to Chinese carriers?
For the record, my theory is that if we went back and did an honest cost analysis of all that has happened in the last 40 years we would find anything to do with China was a huge mistake.
The costs of Covid19 as well as Cities all over the USA cutting down and replacing trees due to a beetle that arrived to the USA on freight skids are thoughts to start with. We can continue on to the rampant Chinese theft of intellectual property, the selling of contaminated and adulterated products and so much more.
Global trade works only when both parties are honest and can adhere to some semblance of rules of law.
The outright bribing and theft of data that is happening in our Universities is totally beyond the pale.
Ironically, China Airlines is actually owned by the government of Taiwan, not China. So it will not be impacted by this restriction.
Banning Chinese airlines from flying to the U.S. is a very bad idea. They are better than U.S. airlines and we should encourage flights to and from the U.S. The flights bring tax revenue and business to the U.S. This is a petty political move.
@Santastico -- OMAAT has how many regular writers? Couldn't even find one (1) person of color? Really?
But here -- click on this link to do better! Racism solved!
@ Donna -- "OMAAT has how many regular writers?"
One. Ben. Fewer than 1% of posts on this site are written by someone other than him.
Of those, I would love to have people who come from a more diverse range of backgrounds. That is complicated, for a whole variety of factors we can't influence as directly as we'd like (to reference an example I've shared previously, when we were actively soliciting applications in...
@ Donna -- "OMAAT has how many regular writers?"
One. Ben. Fewer than 1% of posts on this site are written by someone other than him.
Of those, I would love to have people who come from a more diverse range of backgrounds. That is complicated, for a whole variety of factors we can't influence as directly as we'd like (to reference an example I've shared previously, when we were actively soliciting applications in 2018 we received thousands, and less than a dozen were from women). And given current microeconomic factors, increasing the headcount can't be a priority.
So we're doing the best we can in other ways in the meantime. We fully acknowledge we need to do better.
@Donna: First of al, unless you have an Avatar with your picture nobody here knows your color. Thus, you saying this blog only fits for white people doesn’t mean anything since you don’t know who is reading. What I am saying is that unless you want someone to write specific posts about his/her experiences while traveling based on their color, race, gender, age, accent, etc... there is no need hire people with specific color to...
@Donna: First of al, unless you have an Avatar with your picture nobody here knows your color. Thus, you saying this blog only fits for white people doesn’t mean anything since you don’t know who is reading. What I am saying is that unless you want someone to write specific posts about his/her experiences while traveling based on their color, race, gender, age, accent, etc... there is no need hire people with specific color to write a post. So if you need a person of color to write about their specific experience then one may need others and suddenly OMMAT will have to hire 100 employees. :)
Just as noted in the last blog about Akbar Al Baker.
Donna is now officially a "Karen"
@EricAstray I have a hard time sympathizing with them having to pay $10k. Michigan State University in East Lansing has a huge number of Chinese citizens studying there. They have completely taken over the luxury apartment complexes and they drive Maseratis, Bentleys, Ferraris, Porsches, and every other type of luxury car all around campus. I'm sure they have plenty of money for the flight home.
'Lively' discussion today! ( :
It would seem we are all ready to 'hit the road' soon...I know I am.
I for one LOVE this blog - many thanks to Lucky, your contributors, support staff etc...
Safe travels to all!
@ Andy:
I am sure that things will get far better in 2032... after Ivanka's 2nd term.
@ NotUScitizen: Don't worry, he will.
@Santastico - so you don't think people of color have different experiences on planes/while traveling?
Interesting.
I have had experiences different from a white blogger's perspective. I like to read his but also those of others. But maybe only white writers are the best fit here?
Let me tell you, it's scary to not be able to leave. I evac'd China in February then we didn't know when we'd see my husband and father of my kids again. It was touch and go. Not just some vacay or mileage run that got screwed up. He got out a few months later after some failed itineraries. My dog on the other hand is hopefully flying out today. It has been a nightmare....
Let me tell you, it's scary to not be able to leave. I evac'd China in February then we didn't know when we'd see my husband and father of my kids again. It was touch and go. Not just some vacay or mileage run that got screwed up. He got out a few months later after some failed itineraries. My dog on the other hand is hopefully flying out today. It has been a nightmare. I've never flown first class, but my dog has. $$$$$$$$ We have American friends who are trying to get out who haven't seen their family in months. It's not fun. We have been there. This won't help them, but it's a result of China's policy.
@ Matthew
Haha.
I thought one had a wife and kids.
But I guess that doesn't mean anything...and that's absolutely fine.
"We need to do better" is the same sort of value judgment I complained about previously. If you want to "do better", Tiffany (or whoever), good on you. I don't think you know whether or not "we" need to do better.
I visit the blog for luxury flight reviews, and the further you stray from that the less I enjoy it, but at minimum I'd like to lose the preachy tone. There are many other outlets for it where it is better placed.
@Donna: who gives a s..t about the color of the person that is writing the post? Seriously, that is racism from your side. It is about good content so if the person that wrote is blue, yellow, red, black or white, if the person that wrote is male, female, transgender, no gender defined, American, Asian, from Mars,..... what does that have to do with the blog? They say they “Support Equality” and that should be...
@Donna: who gives a s..t about the color of the person that is writing the post? Seriously, that is racism from your side. It is about good content so if the person that wrote is blue, yellow, red, black or white, if the person that wrote is male, female, transgender, no gender defined, American, Asian, from Mars,..... what does that have to do with the blog? They say they “Support Equality” and that should be the norm in everything we do. At least it is on my side but unfortunately not everyone sees that way. But that is not the point of this blog. Thus, asking that was not appropriate in my view. In my opinion, when OMMAT hires people to write on the blog they probably never hire based on anything other than “is this person the best writer for the blog?”. I believe that is how they do it.
"and heterosexual men..."
Umm, Donna. I've got news for you.
@Tiffany,
I appreciate the response. As for concern trolling -- you posted the banner, not I.
Were we not to address it in any meaningful way?
It's been brought up before that fresh voices on this site would be a boon.
There are women now; and heterosexual men.
But everyone's white-- which is great but --- how again does this support equality?
Or is the understanding to just appreciate the...
@Tiffany,
I appreciate the response. As for concern trolling -- you posted the banner, not I.
Were we not to address it in any meaningful way?
It's been brought up before that fresh voices on this site would be a boon.
There are women now; and heterosexual men.
But everyone's white-- which is great but --- how again does this support equality?
Or is the understanding to just appreciate the new banner but just continue to sing praises of the author's snarky posts against Qatar's Al-Baker?
@Reason– as per the CX site it applies for flights both ways:
"Transit restrictions- In this first phase, transiting to and from destinations in mainland China is not available."
For some foreigners who keep saying the US has problem with racism. Yes we do but at least we are having conversation and actions to get better. Our nation has been unrest before and will again in the future. Your countries don’t talk about it doesn’t mean you don’t have racism. Look at France, look at Germany and many other countries. So STFU! Also if you think China is better at handling the virus, you...
For some foreigners who keep saying the US has problem with racism. Yes we do but at least we are having conversation and actions to get better. Our nation has been unrest before and will again in the future. Your countries don’t talk about it doesn’t mean you don’t have racism. Look at France, look at Germany and many other countries. So STFU! Also if you think China is better at handling the virus, you are stupid to accept the Chinese propaganda. With 1.4 billion people, majority are living in unhygienic condition and densely populated areas but less than 100k cases. Give me a break! Trump sucks at COVID-19 response. Who says China is better at handling the virus response? Who says? WHO or China?
"One would think that China will take this seriously, though the Chinese government often isn’t a huge fan of negotiating, so we’ll see how this evolves…"
Huh? Wouldn't you say the US government isn't a huge fan of negotiation? What negotiations have they done?
Hold on...
There are a lot of comments mentioning US carriers refuse to follow proper quarantine procedures and want exceptions. Is there any source to support this idea?
If US carriers fail to follow quarantine procedures in China then it's their problem and DoT shall have no blame on CAAC.
However, from what we read (transparently), China did not permit US carriers to fly.
For all those pointing finger at Trump, I didn’t vote for him, think is is crazy and does things the wrong way BUT it doesn’t mean he does all things wrong. In the case of China, enough is enough. They took all advantage they could with many Republican and Democrat presidents until Trump said enough. I hate many things he does and how he does things but in this one I applaud him. In my opinion, he is not wrong at all.
Keep this in perspective.
1) This is just a small skirmish in a trade war that has been escalating for more than two years.
2) Only one side has said, "Trade wars are good, and easy to win."
China didn't just deny US airline applications, but many others. Are they really only against the US carriers?
Isn't the HK transit ban only for flights to mainland China, not flights from mainland China?
LOL at the European trolls on here bashing the US for its institutionalized racism. The difference between the US and European countries is that we are at least AWARE of the problem. Europeans live in glass houses and are constantly throwing stones. The hypocrisy and lack of self-awareness is stunning.
@FMLAX Taiwan has banned transit and HK still does not allow transit from/to China. Most of JL/ANA flights from US now lands in HND instead of NRT while only NRT/KIX flies to China now. I know some Chinese students having to pay over $10k to get a one-way ticket home. They've graduated and must leave US within 60 days.
Also, I notice a lot of Chinese trolls in the comment section today.... please take care Lucky
The hypocrisy in these comments are amazing. Chinese airlines are able to operate, American airlines are not and yet is the DOT's fault?
China imposed restrictions on other airlines first, and CCP government is the main culprit that’s making Chinese nationals in the US so hard to find a way home. If China is arbitrarily not allowing US airlines to fly to China, then US is absolutely correct in banning Chinese carriers from flying in the US.
There’s no bias here, only the US government standing up against a authoritarian dictatorship regime. Look at that CCP’s track...
China imposed restrictions on other airlines first, and CCP government is the main culprit that’s making Chinese nationals in the US so hard to find a way home. If China is arbitrarily not allowing US airlines to fly to China, then US is absolutely correct in banning Chinese carriers from flying in the US.
There’s no bias here, only the US government standing up against a authoritarian dictatorship regime. Look at that CCP’s track record of one sided retaliation and you will know China banning US carrier while allowing its own Chinese carriers has nothing to do with testing or procedures.
@Joeboo It's more egregious than you even allude to. I travel in Germany a fair bit, and if I had a nickel for every time some German told me something to the effect of, "Trump is a little crazy, but that doesn't mean he's doing the wrong things," I'd have at least a couple of bucks.
Racism in France is omnipresent, and has quite a few parallels to the US. In fact, you might...
@Joeboo It's more egregious than you even allude to. I travel in Germany a fair bit, and if I had a nickel for every time some German told me something to the effect of, "Trump is a little crazy, but that doesn't mean he's doing the wrong things," I'd have at least a couple of bucks.
Racism in France is omnipresent, and has quite a few parallels to the US. In fact, you might start to see the Arab minorities in France start to protest much more visibly in the name of George Floyd. Italy and Sweden also pretty racist, and Poland is overtly racist. So if you look at Europe as a whole as something of an analog of the United States, they're not without their Alabamas and Mississippis, but being wrapped inside a socialist welfare state (and I don't necessarily say that as a bad thing) makes it all a little less obvious and out-in-the-open.
I travel to Asia quite a bit. I liked the $400 return flights I could get into SFO or LAX. Now I'll likely have to pay $900+
@Pete
Yes, anything that doesn't please you or address your specific needs is a troll.
So sorry to upset you. Please continue to live in your bubble.
So US Airlines can suspend flights to China altogether as soon as it fits their own interests and resume as many flights as they want when they see a chance to arbitrage on Chinese students studying overseas. In fact Chinese government is very open to negotiation as long as the request is reasonable. What US Airlines want is an exception to operate flights from multiple destinations for multiple times a week and when they got...
So US Airlines can suspend flights to China altogether as soon as it fits their own interests and resume as many flights as they want when they see a chance to arbitrage on Chinese students studying overseas. In fact Chinese government is very open to negotiation as long as the request is reasonable. What US Airlines want is an exception to operate flights from multiple destinations for multiple times a week and when they got denied they ran to papa Trump like a cry baby. You should've practiced better judgement when you decided to suspend flights altogether. How entitled.
@Andy...what a clown!
No idea what 'it' talking about. I travel in Europe monthly for business...and see similar issues regarding suppression or racism.
Ex. - German contempt for Turkish immigrants/ including German born citizens of 'Turkish heritage' etc.
America has many faults (as does every country), but for the most part Americans are kind, welcoming, giving people.
Trump a bull in China shop (no pun intended). But I applaud this move.
Americans...
@Andy...what a clown!
No idea what 'it' talking about. I travel in Europe monthly for business...and see similar issues regarding suppression or racism.
Ex. - German contempt for Turkish immigrants/ including German born citizens of 'Turkish heritage' etc.
America has many faults (as does every country), but for the most part Americans are kind, welcoming, giving people.
Trump a bull in China shop (no pun intended). But I applaud this move.
Americans getting tired of every country taking advantage of US, with open hand always asking for more, more, more. Which is exactly 'why' a guy like Trump got elected.
Enough...level the playing field.
@Bill , that is not true. There are many foreign airlines operating flights to China; however they have to follow the same rule as Chinese airlines. This is where the problem is, US airlines just refuse to do so.
@Andy Yea, because every american voted for Trump right? Way to demonstrate just how ignorant you are about the US.
@Dennis way to miss the whole point. They are totally ok with flights come from the US, but only want chinese airlines on the routes.
First, full disclosure, I am Chinese.
I am just curious, when someone disagree with you with facts and logic, instead dispute their facts and logic,you just call them trolls and attack their nationality ( without proof ) , how do you justify that?
This is what the future of the aviation transport industry will look like - an emphasis on equality of opportunity for all stakeholders rather than purely a consumer cost emphasis.
I also think there will be a mega push to get COMAC into the big leagues sooner rather than later. I'm sure many current and former administration officials are rueing Boeing's joint venture assembly facilities in China.
@Donna
Irrelevant post by a concern troll.
@Ray passengers aren't allowed to transfer through HKG to/from Mainland China... it's possible that this may prompt a change though.
well better, so slower spread of the next pandemic comming from.....China!!.
Even though being a Chinese college student who is currently stuck in the US, I support president Trump's decision. CAAC lacks basic transparency.
Dear US readers...
I know things are very serious at the moment, and I honestly wish all of you to get a proper leader in the next elections.....
but for the rest of us, we are having such a laugh with Trump that I almost wish he gets elected again :)
looks like there are some Chinese 50 cent internet trolls here
Better not mention the Wuhan Virus. Whoops.
There will be a travel advisory warning against travel to the US due to civil unrest and unstable government
The US has banned most inbound visitors anyhow
The lack of social distancing during demonstrations and spread of covid in the US means that people simply should avoid travelling there
I believe a sports professional who was present at a rally has confirmed he caught covid
I love visiting the US ,...
There will be a travel advisory warning against travel to the US due to civil unrest and unstable government
The US has banned most inbound visitors anyhow
The lack of social distancing during demonstrations and spread of covid in the US means that people simply should avoid travelling there
I believe a sports professional who was present at a rally has confirmed he caught covid
I love visiting the US , however frankly at the moment would not want to visit
And xenophobia is a huge problem in the US. There’s a much higher risk, in many areas , of being injured or even killed by the police than in other countries
As someone who frequent visit China I definitely agree with Lucky here, and this is one of the very few things Drumps does right.
The "One route, one company, one country, one week" policy is a very cruel and bureaucratic policy causing unnecessary pain for overseas Chinese, by pressing China (albeit for their own good), US DOT is bringing possible change to the policy, and it will benefit overseas Chinese in the end.
But this policy isn't just targeting US airlines no?
While I support the USA's move here, It's horrifying to see the knock-on effect this will have in the travel industry. There are a lot of Chinese students in the USA and Americans working in China, and with the American government now slapping these restrictions, these people will naturally have fewer options like Cathay Pacific, China Airlines, ANA, JAL, MH, SQ etc. These airlines could probably end up charging exorbitantly high prices for these routes....
While I support the USA's move here, It's horrifying to see the knock-on effect this will have in the travel industry. There are a lot of Chinese students in the USA and Americans working in China, and with the American government now slapping these restrictions, these people will naturally have fewer options like Cathay Pacific, China Airlines, ANA, JAL, MH, SQ etc. These airlines could probably end up charging exorbitantly high prices for these routes. Given that airfares are going to massively rise, this would just add fuel to the fire and people who can't afford these airfares will end up overstaying their visas and that could result in further complications.
I doubt if this rule will last even until September lol.
Trump shoots America in the foot again.
@Lucky, pls ban the CCP bots Daniel Peter norman (so far). Chinese should go to Chinese aviation blogs imo.
The Chinese government hasn't generally operated in good faith in any agreement, so this is not unlike any of the other issues between the two countries.
This is a purely political move on both sides of the Pacific.
As for Chinese students stuck in America, can't they just connect on JL, CX, BR or any number of non-American, non-Chinese airlines?
@Sharon
People like you are the problem and why B iden wont get elected. Blaming Trump for denying Chinese airlines rights when the Chinese government doesnt allow American airlines to fly these routes is somehow unfair and shows how crazy he is?
China chose not to belong to Open Skies and to pursue individual agreements with nations. If China isn’t operating in good faith, the the US has the right to respond. Nice summary Lucky. It helped me to understand it.
I wouldn’t “land in the US” if you paid me.
Desperately soulless country based on systemic deep seated racism. I’m white.
You elect Trump. You deserve him. Awful messed up country on SO many levels and one that it’s the embarrassment to itself.
I see the "Support Equality" link at the top.
Does this site have (m)any people of color writing for it?
@ Donna (not The Original Donna, to clarify for those who have been around awhile) -- I mean, Pete is a little right that it sounds like Concern Trolling and that you're asking only to antagonize, even if you didn't intend it that way. A quick glance at the home or about pages would tell you that Ben writes 99% of the content, so there is a definite lack of non-Ben diversity regardless.
I've talked...
@ Donna (not The Original Donna, to clarify for those who have been around awhile) -- I mean, Pete is a little right that it sounds like Concern Trolling and that you're asking only to antagonize, even if you didn't intend it that way. A quick glance at the home or about pages would tell you that Ben writes 99% of the content, so there is a definite lack of non-Ben diversity regardless.
I've talked before about the inherent privilege in the frequent flier space, and how those systemic realities have impacted the potential candidate pool when we have looked to bring on other contributors in the past, so won't rehash that here. We make an effort with other things though, like working with minority-led businesses for third-party services we need on the site, mentoring people who want to start blogs, etc.
We're far from perfect though, and are always trying to do better.
China indicated it will loose the limit (specifically the Mar 12 cutoff date) as long as the US airlines could meet the quarantine requirements in China. The problem now seems to be somewhere lying on the US airline side as they not only not are not willing to meet the testing and quarantine requirements but also want to increase the flight to an extend (once everyday) China cannot afford (everyone entering China need to undergo...
China indicated it will loose the limit (specifically the Mar 12 cutoff date) as long as the US airlines could meet the quarantine requirements in China. The problem now seems to be somewhere lying on the US airline side as they not only not are not willing to meet the testing and quarantine requirements but also want to increase the flight to an extend (once everyday) China cannot afford (everyone entering China need to undergo mandatory Covid PCR test at airport and 14-day quarantine at designated hotels which is the main reason China limited flight numbers). So yes, you ARE biased.
It makes sense that China wouldn’t want any US airlines flying to China right now considering that the USA is the global epicentre of the pandemic. US airlines have refused to adhere to Chinese safety and hygiene requirements which has contributed to this decision. The date is a very reasonable one as it is exactly two weeks before implementation of the policy. Eventually the US will just need to accept that China handled the virus much better than them...
Just when I thought Cathay Pacific was doomed, this happens. They’re about to make bank for the first time in a while now
Of course you are biased. Banning flights from China to fly to the US and carry their own citizens home and what’s next? Is the US government planning to grant those stranded Chinese citizens in the US asylum status?
Let alone that the US government revoked student visas for those 3,000+ Chinese students who believed to have connection with the Chinese army and deport them. Not sure how they are gonna do this with flights between two country being completely cut.
@Dennis -
Congrats on quickly becoming the sites biggest troll. Why don’t you put more energy into being part of the answer & solution instead of the problem. You’re honestly worthless on this blog.
I believe Hainan was experiencing financial troubles
This is very childish on part of the US Government and China.
Thousands of Chinese students are desperate to get home to their families and the US is preventing them, wrong, they need to permit flights from China to the US.
It is clear that foreign governments fully understand that the Trump administration is completely unprofessional and inadequate, thus giving foreign states more control over their relations with the US.
I don't...
This is very childish on part of the US Government and China.
Thousands of Chinese students are desperate to get home to their families and the US is preventing them, wrong, they need to permit flights from China to the US.
It is clear that foreign governments fully understand that the Trump administration is completely unprofessional and inadequate, thus giving foreign states more control over their relations with the US.
I don't see much of any way that United will be able to restart their China service, and with any dispute going on, I'm sure Delta will postpone their start date. No matter what, United will be the first US airline to China.
@Dennis
How does that even make sense. Are you suggesting that airlines will scoop up hundreds of looters and anarchists from the streets and dump them in China? Travel advisories are for people going TO a destination, not leaving it.
As far as I know, part of the reason why U.S. airlines were granted permission was that they refused to adhere to some of China's stringent virus prevention measures. The date is not arbitary, it's just two weeks before the start of the policy, and that is to make sure it doesn't all of a suddent create a lot of new routes now that every route can have only one flight.
I think escalation...
As far as I know, part of the reason why U.S. airlines were granted permission was that they refused to adhere to some of China's stringent virus prevention measures. The date is not arbitary, it's just two weeks before the start of the policy, and that is to make sure it doesn't all of a suddent create a lot of new routes now that every route can have only one flight.
I think escalation is not the way to resume US flights to China. It's just yet another way of Trumps display of "domination", which we've seen him talking over and over for the past few days.
They will reopen the routes when it goes closer to time.
Stephen Miller must smirk hard somewhere in White House bunker right now! Serious note - it's fair move by DOT and we gotta wonder if it'll affect 10 year tourist visas at some points.
Currently four Chinese airlines operate scheduled flights between the United States and China — Air China, China Eastern, China Southern, and Xiamen Air
What about Hainan , Sichuan , and Shenzhen airlines ?
The U.S. is a dangerous place right now - full of virus and civil unrest. I wouldn't allow any U.S. airlines the right to land at the moment either.