What Is Even Going On With Those Small Business Loans?

Filed Under: Advice, Business

Ever since Congress passed the CARES Act on March 27th, it seems like it’s been dominating the news cycles as much as COVID-19 itself. As small business owners, we’ve all been trying to wrap our heads around it, and when the topic came up with Ben and Tiffany last week, we all agreed on two things:

  1. It might be more effective, and would likely be quicker, to throw hundred dollar bills out of a helicopter (although that would be problematic for social distancing).
  2. It would be great to have a blog post on the existing SBA programs to support all of our readers who also own small businesses – and it’s also a gargantuan task.

Because here’s the rub: the legislation came out a few days ago, and everyone is trying to catch up and wrap their heads around it. Quickbooks emailed me at least three times last Friday telling me about the Paycheck Protection Program (PPP) loan program. I talked to two different CPAs this week about what type of loan I should apply for, and both of them had a response that was something along the lines of “cool, go for it! (thumbs up)”

And at one point this week, a colleague of mine called her bookkeeper to ask a question about tax implications, and ended up explaining the EIDL program to her bookkeeper. 

So, while I never thought I’d be writing about small business loans on a travel blog, here we are. I’ve gathered what I can based on news sites, conversations with bookkeepers and CPAs, legal sites, and the legislation itself.

That said, I’m a small business owner like you all – not a lawyer or CPA. I think it goes without saying that you shouldn’t make any major business decisions – especially regarding loans – until you’ve talked to a qualified bookkeeper or accountant.

But if you’re interested in things like wait times and paperwork required, then pour yourself a cup of coffee and settle in.

Payroll Protection Program (PPP) Loans

This is the program that has gotten by far the most attention, due mainly to the fact that for many people, it has the highest potential for debt forgiveness, or “free” money. Unsurprisingly, this also means that it comes with the most complications, and the program hasn’t exactly gotten off to a great start.

That said, it can also be the most lucrative program for small businesses, especially those with high payroll costs.

How does the PPP loan forgiveness work?

The Payroll Protection Program was essentially designed to incentivize small businesses to keep as many employees on payroll as possible, by offering forgivable loans. In essence, these loans can be completely forgiven if:

  • The money is spent on payroll, rent, mortgage utilities and interest in the eight weeks after the loan is made
  • At least 75% of the loan money is spent on payroll costs. This includes employees, contractors, and owners’ salaries – and payroll costs are capped at $100,000 per person annually.

Loans are granted for up to 2.5x the average monthly payroll, with a maximum amount of $10 million – bearing in mind that the forgivable amount may be less than a total amount. Businesses can retroactively re-hire furloughed employees in order to meet the criteria.

Any portion of the loan that isn’t forgiven will be at an interest rate of 1%, which some banks have already pledged to donate to charity.

Who is eligible for PPP loans?

According to the SBA site, small businesses with fewer than 500 employees are eligible. Traditional businesses like LLCs and S-Corps are of course included, but PPP loans are also available less “traditional” businesses including:

  • Sole proprietorships
  • Independent contractors
  • Self-employed individuals
  • Private non-profit organizations
  • 501(c)(19) veteran organizations

Additionally, restaurants and other businesses in the hospitality and food industry with over 500 employees throughout multiple locations may also be eligible, as long as no single location has over 500 employees.

Certain businesses with over 500 employees might also be eligible if they meet SBA size standards for those industries. Examples include energy, manufacturing, and publishing (who knew?!) If you’re curious whether or not your business qualifies, you can check this table as a starting point.

Small businesses were eligible to apply for these loans starting on Friday, April 3rd, while independent contractors can start applying on Friday, April 10th.

Oh, and it’s probably also worth mentioning that you are not eligible for PPP loans if you are in jail or on parole.

How do you apply for a loan?

You can access the form here, but buckle up, because there’s a lot of paperwork required (which we will get to in a minute).

The tricky part here is that when you’re done with the form, you’re not applying directly through the SBA. Rather, the application has to be submitted to an SBA-certified lender. And while some smaller banks have actually been pre-processing loans since before the CARES act went into effect, others – particularly bigger banks – are just now getting their act together.

Smaller, community banks seem to be better equipped to process these loan applications, although if you do go to a bigger bank, chances are you’ll have a better chance of getting your loan processed if you are already a member.

If you’re still struggling, you can consider applying through a program like this one in order to get matched with a lender.

What paperwork is required?

According to kabbage.com, all businesses need to provide the following:

  • The business start date
  • The bank account and routing number

Additionally, sole proprietors and independent contractors should have access to the following:

  • 1099s for any independent contractors from 2019, not to exceed $100,000
  • A 2019 1040-C if you are a sole proprietorship

If you’re a business with employees, life gets a little more complicated, as you will also need the following (all IRS forms apply to the 2019 year):

  • Form 941 for quarterly salary, wages, commission and tips
  • Form 944, which is the same as 941, but annualized
  • Form W-3
  • Form 940 (for any unemployment costs)
  • 1099s for any independent contractors paid (up to $100,000)
  • Monthly payroll statements, including information on salaries, wages, commissions, tips, vacation, family, medical or sick leave, costs for separation or dismissal of employees, and any state or local taxes assessed on employee compensation
  • A couple of shots of espresso, whiskey, or perhaps both

How quickly will the money be available?

That’s the (ten) million dollar question right now. As of midday Monday, April 6th, Bank of America had already received applications for $32.6 billion, while Wells Fargo was already at capacity for their loan applications (according to Forbes). That being said, these figures only account for applications received, not applications processed.

There’s little information on loan disbursement timelines on the SBA’s PPL loan page, which is unsurprising, and the current news cycle is primarily focused on banks being overwhelmed by current applications. Unfortunately, there just aren’t enough data points right now to be able to provide any timeline that is more than a wild guess – although if other aspects of the CARES act are any indication, I would expect any projected timeline to be longer than expected.

We’ll keep this up-to-date as best we can, and if you have any additional data points on getting approved for a PPP loan, please comment below. But if cash flow is tight and this is your lifeline, I would jump on this as soon as possible in anticipation of wait times.

And we mean wait times in the literal sense. A friend called the Small Business Administration’s customer service line (1-800-659-2955) yesterday and was told he was number 1525 in the queue with a 48 minute hold time (which seems aspirational at best, given what we’ve all experienced with airline hold times).

Here’s a picture of a beautiful beach in Thailand, which has nothing to do with this post but is probably what we all need to see right now.

Where can I learn more?

There’s a lot out there, and this only scratches the surface. As a non-CPA, non-bookkeeper, average reader of things, I found the following resources to be particularly helpful:

Speaking of the EIDL program …

Economic Injury Disaster Loans

If forgivable loans sound appealing but reading about PPP loans makes you want to do unkind things to your computer, then the EIDL program might be your solution. The eligibility requirements are the same, and while the interest rate is higher than the PPP loan (3.75% for small businesses, and 2.75% for nonprofits), the program includes the option to request a $10,000 grant for working capital, and up to $2 million in total loan money. [Note, since this was written, the SBA is now describing this as “up to” $10,000, but there doesn’t seem to be any justification for that limit in the bill or Treasury guidance]

Best of all, the application process is much easier than the PPP loan. Here are some of the key details (you may want to top off on coffee, but you can probably switch to decaf at this point…).

Who is eligible for the EIDL grant?

EIDL requirements are the same as PPP requirements, listed above. Businesses with fewer than 500 employees are eligible, as are nonprofits and independent contractors. You can’t be in jail, and you can’t be in the adult entertainment industry (which I am not hyperlinking to, for hopefully very obvious reasons).

What paperwork is required?

The two biggest items that you’ll need are gross revenue for the last 12 months, and cost of goods sold for the last 12 months. Specifically, the application looks for revenues from February 1, 2019, through January 31, 2020 – although some CPAs and bookkeepers have advised to just use 2019 figures.

You’ll need the personal information for any owners of the business, including social security numbers, even if you provide an EIN. They’ll also ask you some basic questions about your address, number of employees, and any other form of government aid you’ve received through the crisis, as well as your bank account information, so you’ll want to have all of that on hand.

How do you apply for a loan?

You can apply right through the SBA site here. Once I figured out what I wanted to do, the entire process took about 20 minutes (most of which was spent adding up my 2019 1099s). The questions are relatively straightforward, and at the end of the application process, you’ll get a notification indicating that the SBA will follow up with you.

Above all, be sure to check the box indicating that you would like to be considered for the $10,000 grant. The grant does not need to be repaid, and you do not need to request any additional loan money above the $10,000 grant.

How quickly will the money be available?

While the original documentation indicated that grants could be available as early as three days after applying, I don’t know anyone who has received the money, including people who applied a week ago (but if you have please comment below!!).

Again, if you’re planning on using this as your lifeline, I would apply sooner rather than later, and expect payment later rather than sooner.

Not yet part of the stimulus package

Unemployment Options

Each of the 50 states could probably get its own novel on the unemployment process, so I’ll try to keep this one brief. But I do want to wave a hand here, especially because for the first time, gig workers and independent contractors are eligible to apply for unemployment through their state (or in some cases, they will be as soon as the states get the infrastructure up and running).

The biggest wrinkle here is that many contractors have more than one employer, but state-by-state unemployment forms typically only have one “employer” field. Furthermore, the resident could reside in one state, with the employer being based in a different state.

Some states, like Illinois, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, Utah, and Wisconsin don’t have anything set up for contractors on their states’ unemployment sites yet, citing that they are waiting for additional guidelines from the CARES act. Others, like Iowa and North Dakota, are having residents file through the standard page and requesting additional proof of income for the 2019 year.

Meanwhile, in New York, I know someone who applied last week as soon as it opened up, but apparently the system still needs to finalize over the phone. So his daily routine now involves calling them ~150 times a day (that’s an actual number, not an exaggeration). Fun.

If you are self-employed and looking to file, at minimum I would have your 2019 1099s available on hand, so that you can declare gross income and provide employers’ EINs, if necessary.

I wish there was better or clearer information to provide, but right now it appears to be one giant game of catch-up. What we can provide is a list of the links to each of the fifty states’ unemployment websites:

Other Grant Options

One option that often gets overlooked is private grant money. These are typically application-based, offered by private donors, and can sometimes be for highly specific groups (for example, I have a friend who recently applied to one that was designed for women artists over 40).

If you haven’t looked into this yet, grantspace.org is a free resource that covers everything from $500 grants to workers in the hospitality industry, to $75,000 zero-interest loans for small businesses.

Above all, if you find a grant that you like, I would apply for it when you see it. Many of the deadlines are this week, and it’s not unheard of for grant applications to close early if they receive an overwhelming number of applicants.

Unanswered Questions (or things we would like some clarity on)

Part of the problem here is that the bill went into effect almost as fast as that British Airways flight last February, which means that there are plenty of areas for interpretation, and a lot of the current legislation is unsatisfactory.

We also know that we have a plethora of smart and informed readers out there, who probably have a more robust legal or government background than I do. So if there’s anyone out there willing to help us out, we would love answers to questions like:

  • Is the $10,000 EIDL grant taxable? (I think the answer is “no” based on prior FEMA-issued grants and some anecdotal remarks, but we’re still working on finding a definitive answer on a federal .gov website)
  • When does loan money get disbursed? (If you have any positive data points from your experience, please comment below)
  • If you apply for unemployment as an independent contractor, does that count against your employer’s future unemployment tax liability?
  • What kind of future paperwork will loan/grant recipients be required to submit to prove their eligibility for loan forgiveness?
  • What else would you like to know??

Please have at it if you have any answers – especially if there’s a reliable source attached, and we’ll do our best to update periodically as we get more information.

So, which option is the best?

It’s hard to say when all of the systems are backlogged, but if I had to paraphrase this 2,500+ word post into a a few sentences, I would say that the EIDL option is the easiest to apply for, the PPP loans have the most *potential* for cash flow despite the most paperwork, and unemployment may be the most sustainable path for gig workers once the kinks are worked out.

But as always, it depends, and both the infrastructure and the interpretation of the law are evolving every day. As you consider applying for one of these loans or grants, be sure to talk to your bookkeeper or CPA – and bear in mind that they are probably just wrapping their heads around this, too.

Bottom line

Loans are complicated. Paperwork is no fun. I’m sticking to travel-related content from now on. 😉

In all seriousness, part of why this is a struggle is because peoples’ experience by and large haven’t mirrored reality. So if you have any experience that might be helpful, be it a six-hour hold time, paperwork being accepted/rejected, or *gasp* a success story, please share it with us!

Most importantly, good luck out there, stay healthy, and hopefully we are all back up and running soon!

  1. It’s been the Wild West.

    I was able to get mine through on Saturday after four changes to the applications last week. Luckily I have a banker who is on the ball and this is crucial. With that, every bank portal is different as to the application because…no one knows what to do! Banks are winging it. As one banker said, “It’s like The SBA is making us drink water from a fire hose.”

    Now we just wait. My accountant has said that not a single client of the hundreds his firm works with, have received any sort of acknowledgement, email, or, well…anything since putting in the applications.

    I imagine this is going to be weeks to sort out and, clearly, the money available is not even close to what’s being applied for.

  2. One thing to add in this, most banks handling this will not even talk to you or assist right now UNLESS you have an existing business loan, LOC, or are a long standing important commercial client. They want to process their critical relationships first. And if you don’t have a banker advocate for this process you are pretty much S.O.L.

  3. I understand why banks are hesitant to provide loans to businesses who are not existing customers. It’s a recipe for money laundering, fraud, and placing banks in violation of “know your customer” regulations.

    The premise of these loans was a small business applies and had the money in 24 hours. Seems pretty easy for a bad actor the steal the “identity” of some small local business that is currently on shutdown, apply for the loan, receive the funds and wire it abroad all way before the real business notices.

  4. I’m a tax CPA that works for a small business that’s still going through the process of applying for PPP loans. A few observations:

    1) The payroll cap isn’t as straightforward as it seems. Base salary and wages are capped at $100,000, but you still get to layer on employer-provided benefits (health insurance, 401k match, etc.) on top of that. This might make a material difference.
    2) Beware that EIDL loans aren’t as straightforward as they seem. You will eventually be required to submit personal financial statements, along with financial statements and tax returns for your business, as well as agree to personally guarantee the loan portion.
    3) The “1040-C” you refer to is actually Schedule C of your Form 1040.
    4) Applying for a PPP loan makes you ineligible for payroll retention tax credits, and you become ineligible for the deferral of payroll taxes due through the rest of the year once the loan is forgiven. Sometimes the credits/time value of money on the deferral might be more valuable than the PPP, so do the math.
    5) We’ve been told that you’ll have to submit proof that PPP funds were spent on eligible expenses in order to have the loan forgiven. I don’t have a cite in front of me, but we also determined that the forgiven portion will NOT be considered taxable income. Not sure about the grant portion of the EIDL, though.
    6) The banks largely have NO CLUE what they’re doing. I say this even though our company is receiving white glove service from ours.

  5. And the $349 billion has already been determined not to be enough, Congress is expected to take up adding $250 billion more to the pot on Thursday.

  6. This question makes no sense: “If you apply for unemployment as an independent contractor, does that count against your employer’s future unemployment tax liability?”

    If you are an independent contractor, you do not have an employer, so there is no employer to be charged. Regardless, the federal government is funding the FPUC benefits for contractors — both the state-equivalent benefit and the $600 extra benefit. Since the states are being reimbursed dollar-for-dollar, there is no reason to charge any company’s unemployment experience for the benefit.

  7. Workers making $100k plus are treated differently going in (can include the payroll up to $100k on the loan application for figuring out the loan amount) but not going out (what you need to spend on to get the loan forgiven, can’t spend it on salaries of folks paid $100k plus).

    I think. But be careful giving advice on things like this.

  8. The SBA has never been small business friendly. Most SBA loans funds go to fortune 500 companies via people buying franchises from large corporations. It was a HUGE mistake to allow the SBA to protect the payroll of small businesses. Any “real” small business will not see the money anytime soon and will probably have to lay off their employees. If politicians actually cared about employees and small businesses there is a simple solution:

    I submit quarterly payroll tax forms to the IRS. It shows how many employees I have and how much my payroll was for the quarter. They should have the IRS deposit the previous quarter of your payroll into to your business account. Require the money be used for payroll or face the wrath of the IRS.

  9. We have a small business and this PPP program sounded great. I contacted our bank, Wells Fargo, and as of last Friday they said: “Wells Fargo Bank is currently working to accept applications for the Paycheck Protection Program. Once the application is operational, we will accept applications online via Wellsfargo.com”. I didn’t hear any more from them until Monday when they said they were not accepting any more applications – too late, too bad, so much for years of banking relationships. Now we’re faced with trying to get a loan from another bank where we don’t have an account – good luck. Thanks for nothing, Wells Fargo

  10. @Dennis Newman. This is why I prefer Community Banks always. I had no issues other than the application process changing constantly over days. But they guided as through.

    What is interesting about your case is in talking to my accountant today he mentioned that he has some clients trying through Wells Fargo and they basically came right out and said, “Right now it’s not about just being a customer of ours…we are only helping those who have a LOC or commercial loan with Wells Fargo. Translation: They are only helping those who they feel are a liability to the bank so as to lessen their risk.

  11. Do you have to submit any tax returns or business documents if all you want is the 10k grant for the EIDL program? Or is that money just given upon receipt of application?

  12. Both of my Businesses have Wells Fargo accounts. On Friday I requested information about the PPP. Later Friday I was sent a link to a site that said, “we’re not accepting applications now, but we’ll let you know when we are”.
    I happened to read something the next day saying Wells Fargo was accepting applications, so I went to the link they sent the day before.
    It asked a few basic questions including my name, business name, and EIN. Once I hit submit I got a message saying they would be in touch soon.
    Turns out everyone that got the heads up about the applications being live (no thanks to WF themselves, two separate businesses, two separate business accounts, and no email from them saying they were accepting apps) is going to be considered for a PPP loan through them.
    I received an email from Wells Fargo at 154am this morning, don’t know who was up sending it but this is how it started,
    “We want to keep you informed on your interest in the Paycheck Protection Program application through Wells Fargo.
    Due to high demand, we are not able to begin your application at this time, but you remain in our queue based upon when you submitted your initial interest.”

    When? That’s in line with “When is the SBA going to sent EIDL advance money?”
    I still haven’t heard back from WF. Hopefully before the money runs out.

    Also, last Wednesday at 925am I filled out the EIDL application for one of my companies. I didn’t follow up until Friday morning with a phone call, and was told “your application looks good, money should be sent out early next week, if there is nothing in your account by next Thursday (4/9) call us back. Needless to say I’ve called again, several times, after hearing so many stories online.
    Each time I called I got different info. Most said they have no access to the loan application itself, which makes me wonder if the first guy I talked to was looking at my application, or just making it up.
    Yesterday I was told “you’re in the fact track program and money will be in your account by the end of the week, just keep checking your bank account”.
    Between the guys heavy Indian accent, and complete lack of actual knowledge, I felt like I was getting scammed.
    About right for the Federal Government.

    It’s just a waiting game. I’m fortunate enough that I’ve got enough saved to get me through a month or two of bills, them a month or two on CC. The down side is the new company I started in November I just hired an employee for in the beginning of March. I can’t claim him in any way, shape or form. And if I pay him a full time salary, money for bills to keep both companies open will be going towards him.
    That’s a tricky eventuality Congress did not take into consideration. One reason a $10k grant would have been extremely helpful, because I can not put him down for either the EIDL or PPP loans. $1,000 may be enough to pay him cash for four or five weeks at a much reduced rate, then what?

    Wait and see.

  13. 941s have all the payroll data you would ever need. My bank didn’t need payroll reports.

  14. Just a data point – We got our information together over the weekend and applied with the help of our existing bank first thing Monday. Just got notification that we got SBA authorization, pending bank review of our documents. No firm timeline as to next steps or when funds could be released.

  15. I applied through slow poke Wells Fargo this morning, so will let you know when or if the $$$ hits my bank account

  16. Read an article on Forbes over the weekend and applied right on the spot. It says that if you apply for less than $200K loan at 3.75% interest plus a grant of $10K under EIDL, no documentation is required. I have yet received any response but it will take seven business days to receive a response. I will try again this Friday to see how it goes. When anyone gives you a time frame, give them 3 times as much time as they say. Not to get political but under this administration, nobody is competent and knowledgeable with ethics and morale. None of them gets a promotion or appointed that is based on merit.
    @ Reginald: Sounds like the SBA might not process, let alone approve, your application as they deem you not worthy to help to revive your business. You must apply for a loan plus indicate that you want the $10K grant. They will give you the grant even if they decline your loan application. Read the Forbes/ Bloomberg article on Sunday for further clarification.

  17. You own a company you make good money don’t you save your money ?why would you need this for? if you’re any kind of business person,you got money, stop being so freaking greedy I’m just saying

  18. @Dennis Newman

    Wells Fargo is barred by the federal reserve from growing assets beyond a threshold. They neared it with their lending and had to stop accepting new applications. Wells asked the fed to waive the asset cap just for this purpose but have not received approval.

    This is a great loan program because it allows business owners to pay rent and overhead costs in addition to keeping their employees on payroll. This is better than businesses stuck with rent and overhead and employees collecting unemployment.

    I don’t see why a small business owner would need to consult an accountant or bookkeeper. The rules of the program are very clear and straight forward. If a business owner needs an accountant or bookkeeper to tell him or her if this is good for his or her business he or she shouldn’t be in business. The issue of applying and what documentation is required is separate and is handled by the banks who are doing a great job given the short notice and time frame they have had to implement this program. Obviously having an existing business banking relationship with a bank helps as they can verify much quicker and already have a lot of the information. Maybe sending businesses a check just like individuals will receive is a good option but in lieu of that I’m surprised about how quickly this was implemented and proud the administration was able to push it through so fast allowing for relief for small businesses.

  19. I called the SBA and they said anyone who applied for EIDL and the 10k March 31 or earlier will need to reapply. Nice of them to email and tell us this info…..not!

  20. @James I like your idea of just giving out money going off quarterly payroll and done. Hell to pay later if you misuse it.

    Is Trump the oversight for this program too or just the $500 billion slush fund? He’s usually a pass the buck kind of guy, but for that the buck stops at Trump Inc.

  21. I applied for the EIDL loan on March 19 still no word. I uploaded my PPP app yesterday threw chase. Still no word. I am slowly giving up hope.

  22. A bookkeeper is just that. They record all your financial transaction to keep your books. On average they make about as much as you would on the new unemployment. Your colleague should be too impressed with themselves about knowing something the bookkeeper didn’t.

  23. Do you have to have filed the 1040 Schedule C with the IRS before applying? I doubt my accountant is going to get to completing my return for 2019 anytime soon at this point.

  24. Applied to SBA for EIDL March 20. Was sent an email to reapply with new streamlined process. Reapplied March 30. Called SBA on April 6. Was caller 1,674 in queue. Said loan still under review and I would be contacted. Close of day on April 7 and still nothing. 19 days since submitted first loan request and required paperwork. 9 days since applied a second time for EIDL grant. Definitely NOT 3 days to receive grant money.

  25. EIDL online app is just that. Then SBA follows through with a request for documents. I hope none of these smart business owners think money is going to b tossed in ur bank account in a week after filling out a 5 minute app. If we’re lucky we’ll get a response requesting doc’n w instructions to upload.

  26. Please follow and push #EIDLHOAX to all journalist and Congressional staff that you can. Until we get this whole failed miserable story out in front of people, millions of small business are at risk of going under.

  27. I’ve had similar, extensive, frustrating failure thus far with banks as documented by the other commenters. But a few thoughts to share (based on all I’ve learned–but I’m not expert):

    The EIDL has two components: the first is the grant of $10K which is supposed to be quick and just require the simple online application. But to receive a larger loan (3.75%/10yr) will require much more paperwork and time and even collateral. I was on a Zoom with an SBA representative today and she suggested it would be “four-or-so weeks” before the actual EIDL loans were written/processed (though they are hoping/planning to get the $10K grants out much sooner). For perspective, I was told the SBA wrote something like $28B in all of last year–and they are trying to process $350B in just a few weeks. Gonna be difficult.

    In my view, the EIDL, besides the longer terms, is attractive mostly because it allows a business to take the Employee Retention Tax Credit, which can–in many instances–result in more gifts to the business than the PPP. It is $5K in tax credits for the first $10K of each employee’s earnings (you should read the details to see if it applies to you). Relatively straight-forward and possibly extends multiple quarters.

    BUT, if you take the PPP, you can’t take the ERTC’s. So, the real choice if you want both cash and forgiveness/grants/credits is between the PPP, and the EIDL/ERTC’s.

    The problem with making this calculation is twofold. For one, while ERTC’s are pretty straightforward to model for your business, you don’t know how much EIDL you will be eligible for, nor when it will come. So if you need cash soon, or a lot of cash, you might be risking your business to wait for the EIDL. The PPP on the other hand is pretty straightforward you how much cash you can borrow, and seems to be something that will happen quickly (even with the glitches). Bird in hand.

    But the problem is this: forgiveness aspect of the PPP is super vague.

    While the treasury has provided somewhat-clear guidance that “likely” only 25% of the PPP forgiveness can be used for non-payroll (incentivizing you to max your payroll during the 8 week window following the issuance of the loan so you can spend more on rent and other qualified uses that is forgiven), they are also hinting about requirements to restore head-count. And these requirements are super vague. The SBA also alluded to some fraction that will compare your average monthly payroll for the 8 weeks after the new loan, to 2019’s average monthly payroll, and only forgive that FRACTION of the eligible PPP money.

    In real terms, this presents a dilemma. If you are in the same boat my business is in, cash is life right now. If we go and restore some payroll (as PPP is incentivizing), and maximizing 25% more on forgivable rents and loans (that we maybe otherwise might ask the landlord/bank to defer), only to be–surprise–forgiven only a FRACTION based on some yet-to-be-determined-vs-prior-payroll-spend-or-vs-prior-head-count formula that is simply impossible to meet in current situation, we could end up cashless again at the end of the 8 weeks (with minimal forgiveness, I might add). But if we conserve the cash from the PPP to ensure survival, we likely won’t get the forgiveness, and end up with a 2 year loan (short terms for most in these circumstances, even with good rate of 1%).

    Bottom line is that we can’t make the calculation/decision yet, because we don’t have any clear guidance on forgiveness on the PPP. We need that ASAP!

  28. They said today that the ones applied for EIDL will get by the end of this week $1K per employee. Donut will NOT be $10K unless you have 10 employees.

  29. I had a chat with the SBA. Not a single penny has been loaned to anyone under PPP or EIDL as of 4/8/2020. Read that again.

    They received 300,000 applications for EIDL alone yesterday.

    Most banks aren’t taking any more PPP loan requests because they’re just at capacity. They don’t have the man power to push through the applications. It’s understandable.

    Administration will pump in another $250 billion and then probably another $250 billion. The SBA loans will top $2 trillion at the end of the day.

    I’ve applied as of 4/1 (new streamlined app) and have a confirmation number, in the system, all looks good. When they actually release the $10k is another story. They should have released the emergency $10k within 3 days of an app.

    It’s going to be weeks and weeks before someone gets around to calling us and discussing the EIDL portion of the loan. Let’s hope they at least start sending the $10k at a bare minimum. Which should be upped to $20k given how disorganized the process has been.

  30. I had absolutely no issue applying for my business through Chase. The government announced yesterday that they will increase the amount available for borrowers. The system seems to be working well.

    If your application was refused you will be able to submit again shortly.

  31. We have applied for both the EIDL grant (on Monday 3/30) and the PPP loan. We understood that the EIDL grant money would be disbursed within 3 days of application. However, after two phone calls to SBA , (one with an hour wait and an agent that was asking ME about the loan), I was told yesterday that the money will be issued within 3 days of application APPROVAL. Of course, the kicker is that the approval can take up to 3 WEEKS! So much for ‘immediate’ relief! Finally also heard from our community banker, who has been very helpful, that our applications for PPP were accepted and they would find in 5 business days. So that puts us at early next week.

  32. We started getting paperwork done for SBA PPP on Friday to submit over the weekend or first thing Monday morning when your bank (Suntrust) opens the application process. The issue we had was ADP. They send an email saying they have a report for SBA PPP, which shows all the numbers needed (which is very handy). Monday morning we go online a submit all paperwork. We received an email from ADP that they received more guidance from government saying they will have to change the calculations for the report. We try to get in contact with the bank to change it, but bank are basically overwhelmed. Later on the day, we received another email from ADP, saying they are changing the report again… If ADP, which is one of the largest, if not the largest payroll company in US, can’t get this straight, I fear for those that have zero help in applying for this…

  33. @Reginald – You don’t have to submit 2019 taxes for the initial EIDL application. They ask for gross income for the past 12 months, but it’s just a figure that you have to submit.

    That said, there’s a message at the end that indicates that they will follow up with further information, and I don’t know anyone who has gotten that far in the process yet. My *guess* is that you won’t need a completed tax return since there are other ways to verify income and other programs (stimulus package, for example) don’t require it, but I don’t know anyone who has gotten that far and therefore don’t want to answer with 100% certainty. I’ll update if we learn more.

  34. @chuck – Thanks for the check-in. The link takes you to FL’s Unemployment Benefits Guide, which has a link to the UE application right at the top. 🙂 (The application page itself is pretty ugly so I thought linking to the UE guide might be more helpful.)

    They also call it Reemployment, which might add to the confusion.

  35. @cathy – Technically I think you can *apply* to both (if your state has the UE infrastructure set up for contractors/gig workers, which many don’t). At least, I haven’t read any literature indicating otherwise and I don’t know what the distribution looks like in practice.

    This article has some more info, although it’s all still pretty nebulous and things on the UE front vary tremendously state-by-state.


  36. Just want to say THANK YOU all for this amazing and helpful article and comment thread. Most useful, up-to-date I for I’ve come across yet.

  37. Thanks everyone (and mostly I’m sorry!) for posting your stories. We’ll try to keep things updated as they evolve. If you have any verified info that you can link to, that’s always super helpful (although not necessary, and definitely not possible if it’s done over the phone). Good luck out there.

  38. I’m an EA working for a CPA office. Everyone is contacting us expecting us to fill out their loan applications. Unless your accountant does your payroll and has access to those figures, it’s absolutely unrealistic to expect this to happen. Just a heads up to businesses wanting to apply.

    We’ve helped several clients now (that we have payroll access to) and not a single one has reported any luck getting funds or even getting through the process so far.

  39. @ Storm — That question is coming up in part because the guidance from the Treasury Department suggests that amounts paid to independent contractors on a 1099 can be considered when determining the potential amount of the loan (though not the forgivable amount), conflating scenarios that would previously have been separate.

  40. I applied EIDL three weeks ago. They pulled my credit the first day it was in the system. I called and was told they do not track applications. Last week got an email stating had to fill out a second application to get the grant/advance. Still no word. I applied PPP loan with BB&T but no word from them either. Sounds to me like no one has gotten any money because of bottlenecks.

  41. I’m not sure if someone else mentioned this already, but 1099 employees are currently not being counted towards the average monthly payrolls of the companies applying for PPP. The reasoning is that independent contractors should be applying for their OWN PPP loans by this Friday using their 1099-MISC.

    Honestly, this doesn’t make a while lot of sense to me, but that’s what I’m being told by our bank. This is unfortunate for those companies that have large 1099 payrolls. It basically means you have to stop paying your 1099s, yet still expect them to work, since they’ll be paid by the PPP loan. How is that logical???

  42. We have our business account with Citibank. They promised to put up a portal to apply for PPP loans. So far nada.

  43. Some anecdotal information – We got our application in for the PPP first thing. Based on the limited information out there, I had prepared the documentation I guessed they would need beforehand, and was able to quickly update it and submit. Our local bank worked through the weekend, but was unable to even submit applications until Saturday morning early. The SBA site was overloaded and was not working at times, according to them. It is now Wednesday and they still have not received any authorizations. They have told us that even once they get authorization, they can’t fund until they get the loan terms from (the SBA or the NAGGL?) I will update as I receive more info

  44. I am a tax accountant in South Carolina and have applied for the PPP for my firm and many of my business clients. The applications and payroll info was submitted last Thursday. All have been approved and will be fully funded this Friday, April 10th. The local community banks are the best route to take when applying. The EIDL grant is still a puzzle. Not sure why some people are getting a message to reapply. If you received your confirmation number from the sba, I would see no reason to reapply. Watch for scams.

  45. hello and thank you for the link referral. this is good information. really appreciate it! Please provide updates on one item if you can: Someone here has indicated that for the EIDL emergency $10K load advance they are dispersing this not as a 10K amount per applicant – (I filled this out on March 31 and again on April 5. to include my ‘cost of goods sold’ which is actually your operating expenses) – but one of your readers wrote that the SBA is providing only 1K PER employee… in other words if you are the only employee, you get 1K. not the advance in full even if you marked that in the application. Have you heard this? thanks, keep up the good work! really interesting. cathy

  46. Be careful of emails concerning your EIDL loan. We got one with the SBA logo saying that our loan was being processed and we just needed to submit further information. It looked legit, even had the SBA.gov in the email header. What flagged us was that it was requesting our info by 3/25/2020 which was before we even submitted the EIDL application. Out IT guys ran the email through a secure portal and sure enough there was an embedded virus. By very careful, hackers and scammers are taking advantage of the confusion.

  47. On the PPP loan; I have an LLC which is a service business with no employees beyond myself. I do not take a “Salary”. I do have significant monthly rent and utilities expenses. I do not see how the PPP works for an LLC with no Payroll. There are plenty of us LLCs out there that are just us. No employees. Am I missing something or can I apply for help covering my monthly expenses?

  48. SBA is telling those who applied for the EIDL prior to 3/30 to reapply, as applications prior to that date did not ask whether you wanted to be considered for the $10,000 grant (it basically didn’t exist before then). If you application asked on the last page if you wanted to be considered for the $10k grant, and you marked ‘yes’ and received an application number, I would think you’d be good to go.

  49. @ Craig Cicciari @ Melissa — Look at the guidelines for sole proprietorships as a starting point; your effective payroll costs in that case are likely just the net profit on your P&L.

  50. I want to try and give people hope. When I woke up this morning I had the PPP deposit there. Granted I’m a small LLC which I’m the only employee and my loan was under $15k.

    I filled out my Chase form as soon as it was live on Friday April 3. The evening of April 4 I received a call from a Chase rep and emailed/talked with him till all my forms were submitted. He did tell me that I was one of the first in his cue. He let me know April 4 my forms were all submitted. April 5 I received an email form Chase saying they received my PPP inquiry. Yesterday April 7 around noon I received another email from Chase that more info was needed. The link was crashing like crazy so I waited a few hours. Finally got through it all and had to fill out some more forms and submit payroll income. They requested 2019 taxes which I didn’t have because I haven’t done them yet so I sent 2018. I also sent 4 months of paychecks. I finished it up around 5pm. Didn’t get another email and when I woke up this morning at 8am there was my deposit.

    Stay strong everyone! I hope you all get the help you need sooner than later.

    BTW…nothing on the EIDL that I filled out the evening of March 31 after they said you need to fill out a new form.

  51. I’ve spoken to SBA hotline regarding the EIDL applications for my businesses and they 1. have no idea how long it will take to release funds saying it could be up to 3 weeks before you even get the email reply confirming they have started on your application and up to as long as 3 months before any action is actually taken on your approval, 2. have no way to track anyone’s application status, which is ridiculous for something everyone has to apply for online.

    I other words you absolutely cannot count on them to deliver on this program in any meaningful way.

  52. My sister and I own a store and are set up as a LLC. We have 3 employees that are contract labor. We take monthly “disbursements” so we technically do not carry a payroll and therefore are not eligible for PPP. Besides, the EIDL, has anyone heard if small business owners being able to apply for a stimulus package or grants?

  53. But the 10K advance is supposed to be granted even before your application gets approved and is forgiven even if the application is denied – isn’t it?

  54. @Mark Applegate your right those comments don’t belong here. He’s hiding behind his keyboard. I wish I knew what business he owned. How can we make America great again if have people consistently complain about the past but can’t be the brains that sparks the future. I’m white too but it’s people like @Jim Reed who make me understand why he’s never left his trailer park. Jim grow up already

  55. I applied last Friday when the EIDL loans became available . . . I have a confirmation number (two, actually, because I wasn’t sure my first application went through due to lack of any kind of email confirmation), but I haven’t heard anything from anyone via phone, email, carrier pigeon, psychic vision, nothing. When I went to the SBA site yesterday to check on this loan application, I read that I needed to have an SBA account and log in. When I created my account, despite the social security number being the same as the one on the loan application, my app didn’t show up. How in the world are we to know if our applications were received, let alone in process!?

  56. Since I haven’t seen them mentioned yet, I will chime in with my experience re Chase (with whom I maintain my business accounts).
    It was impossible to get any guidance from them, except to submit your info online, to which I got a “don;t call us; we’ll contact you” reply.
    Yesterday, I got an email saying online PPP application portal was up and running….it was like free Super Bowl tickets were being offered online — the system quickly was overwhelmed and it was impossible to get on.
    I planned to wait until late at night, but checked back about 2 hours later, got online and it was a piece of cake to complete it. Got a reply email today saying my application had been received and that I would receive a decision “soon,” along with a loan app number.
    I also completed an EIDL application via the SBA afterward. I got an application number, was told that I would be notified when they were processing my app and “to take about a week.”
    Nothing to do now but wait….and HOPE! LOL

  57. I applied for EIDL on 3/19/20 and PPP Loan on 4/5/20. Not a word on either program. @Nicholas Stanley: don’t be a troll, you obviously don’t know a thing about business.

  58. Thank you for all these comments. Definitely I am not alone in all of this and somehow that makes me feel better. lol

    I was told by my banker that I can only apply for one loan. Either the PPP or the EIDL loan.
    But it looks like a few of you are applying for both. I also was listening to a webinar and they said both loans could be applied for. So which is it? Anyone really know?

  59. I am a pharmacist and own an independent pharmacy. I’ve sat through a couple of webinars put on by accountants discussing these various programs. You can get an EIDL loan and also the PPP loan, but you can’t use the funds of each for the same thing. For example, you will use the PPP funds for payroll and the various other approved expenses, so you cannot use the EIDL for payroll, rent, mortgage interest, etc. You can use it for supplies, inventory, etc. I applied for the EIDL 2 weeks ago and have not received the $10,000 grant as of today, and I applied for the PPP last Friday and have not received any funds from it either.

  60. I applied for the EIDL on 2 April and I’ve heard nothing at all from the SBA. In the last two days the language on the advance has changed significantly to the $1k/employee first put out by the Massachusetts SBA. That conflicts with the statements by SBA’s Economic Development Specialist, David Hincapie, in this webinar from 1 April, where he refers to “the ten thousand.”

    @Gayle: The link below indicates that you can apply for both:

  61. I applied for the EIDL Loan around March 17th. I got an approval for $500,000 in a week. I got funded on April 7. So, from a personal perspective it’s real. I also applied for the PPP on the 7th through Chase and got an acknowledgement right away saying the application was received. For me the EIDL worked great.

  62. What happens if you call your employees back from lay off and they decline to come back because they would rather collect unemployment then be at risk for catching the virus ( being around other employees. ) Does their “Layoff” become void for unemployment purposes because the employer is now offering them pay for work? Can the employer pay them wages with the Grant money even though they are staying home and continue social distancing ? For low pay jobs, the unemployment plus the $600 may be more than their pay but what if they become ineligible for unemployment because the employer appeals saying ” they are not layed off now, I got the SBA money and I want to pay them to work.” Thanks.

  63. Great article @steph! Transparently informative and humorous…two things I appreciate more and more these days!! 🙂 My experience is similar to many others here. I submitted an application through my local bank including our 941s for 2019, our 2019 W3 and list of payroll expenses on 4/7/2020. I have yet to receive a confirmation number but do know someone who has…does that count?? I’m not sure but it gives me hope that there is money on the horizon for all of us and our small businesses. I also applied for the $10k grant/loan but no word on that either. Hope springs eternal!

  64. I actually waited the hour and a half yesterday with SBA for information on my application for the EIDL (1550 people in front of me when I started the wait on the phone) The nice gentleman that finally answered (who has a stressful job right now!) said the only information he had to tell people was starting April 7th SBA would start actually emailing everyone that has applied for the loans. Obviously it will take a very long time to send these emails out to everyone who applied. That was the only information he had and he was just as upset as all of us.

  65. The comments have been ironically reassuring in that I now realize I’m in the same boat with all these other small business owners wondering about radio silence from the SBA as to the EIDL application and payment. I applied through the SBA site on that first Friday with hope, but now wonder if I will receive any dollars. It is horrible to imagine the number of bankruptcies and lost businesses that will occur because of these bottlenecks.

  66. I have been approved for an EIDL and all of the final docs have been submitted. Anyone know how long funding takes?

  67. Applied for both the PPP (Through BofA) and EIDL (Through SBA) within the first few hours of their availability. Had to resubmit for EIDL in order to be eligible for the $10k advance. That was on 3/31.

    Then nothing from either until the 6th.

    Got an email from BofA stating they were ready for my PPP docs. I uploaded all my docs into their server and got confirmation. Then I got a call today with confirmation that they are now reviewing and then processing my loan. Told me that I was on the early side of who is getting loans processed. Should hear for sure by next week.

    On the EIDL, I finally received an email today saying that my account was ready for the next step…create an account and see what they need from me. When I logged in, I was shocked to see that they were only offering my business $15k. No questions or ability to ask for more or see how they determined my amount. I immediately got on the phone and waited 52 min to talk to someone and plead my case. Here’s what she said:

    They just received an internal email that alerts them to the calls they will be receiving (and I am one of the early ones to get their email to set up their account). Because everything is so stressed in the system and nothing was being given to businesses needing help now, the SBA was authorized to do a phased approach to this lending and $15k was the Max to be given out in phase 1. So she agreed with me that I should be happy that I was granted the max amount to start with. That I would probably see the $10k grant also on top of this $15k loan. And that they will be getting in touch as they work through the issues in the system (and in queue) to discuss the full needs of our EIDL. She took my feedback that the system has no info on this phased approach and they will be hearing from a ton of us with questions.

    So, things are moving but slowly. It’s also good to note that they are finally working through the early applications now…so patience will be needed.

    Good luck everyone. We all need this help and hopefully the kinks will be worked out soon. Those answering the phones are as stressed out as we are but she gave me hope that it’ll all work out in the end.

  68. What’s going on with Citibank? Why haven’t you people put up the application process so we can summit it to you? We along with other Citibank customers are feeling left out due to your slow respond to us! Maybe we should find another bank that wants our Business!

  69. I applied last Friday 4-3 through BBVA bank…they requested payroll reports Monday….loan docs emailed to me yesterday….money($65K) in my acct today at 10:00 AM!

  70. There’s comfort in the fact that we’re all pretty much SOL at the moment. I was happy to read here that money HAS actually made it into the hands of small business owners. Time waits for no man and no man is an island. I only hope that we are all lucky enough to save our businesses.

    I own a small family restaurant. We’ve built a nice business that’s supported and fulfilled two families for over 5 years. As long as our customers are happy, we’re happy! Times were already tough making ends meet before the COVID closures. This crisis and what it’s done to the service industry as a whole has absolutely crushed us.

    I’d like to preface this account by the fact that I am pretty well versed in all the programs available to us. I have gone up and down and inside out of every Federal/State/Local program possible. I applied for the PPP loan through my bank at 2:30 am because that’s when it went live after my incessant calling and clicking refresh all day and night.

    It’s frustrating for an entrepreneur to even ask for help. We all eat, sleep, and live for our businesses. It’s even more frustrating when you ask for help and feel ignored.

    Writing this post, I don’t know if I am trying to help other people, just myself, or both but it feels good to get it all off your chest nonetheless. Here’s our timeline so far:

    On March 22nd: I received confirmation of submittal for our SBA EIDL Loan (took 6 hours in total!).

    On March 23rd: I completed the application for the Pennsylvania PIDA CWCA working capital loan. They had $61 million to give out in just my county. We requested $40,000. My application was received and they requested more information. On the 3rd day, our application was submitted and entered for review. On the morning of April 4th, we received an email from PIDA stating that the funds requested from businesses in 3 days were over $76 million, well past the 61 million dollar allotment. We were waitlisted and told to go to SBA and our bank, which we already had done.

    On March 27th: I received a notice from the credit bureau stating I had a new hard inquiry. When I checked the inquiry it had been pulled by the SBA. I was starting to see a faint light of hope.

    I also received an email from the SBA the same day stating my application status has been moved from “Submitted” to “Received – Under Review”. Eureka! After numerous calls to the SBA waiting for hours on end and listening to so much muzak I think I am starting to not mind it.

    On March 29th: The SBA announced a new, streamlined application with an advance request that I immediately filled out (took 10 minutes!). A week later I am told by the SBA that agents are trying to match any pre-existing loan applications with the Advance loans and they are backed up. Meaning, I wasted 6 hours of my life filling out the first EIDL. I may have gotten approved quicker if I waited for the streamlined version to hit before applying.

    On April 3rd: The PPP went live for the country. The only bank accepting at 9 am Friday was Bank of America. By the end of the day, they had accounted for 31 billion in loans. I said this money is not going to last PNC, please get the online app up for us. At 2:30 am I hit refresh and hit the jackpot in the form of an online application form. Having all the reports and requirements of the application ready to go, it still took me two hours to complete the application. Each bank has a different online application, so when I had to change the format of reports, I got booted out. Nowhere does it give you the option to save or tell you you’re going to get booted out and have to start all over again.

    On April 8th: Called PNC and SBA again and waited on hold forever to get the same answers I have been getting since March 22nd. They have no answers, someone will be in touch, you’ll get an email, check back tomorrow, this is unprecedented, they’re backed up, the system crashed, and so on.

    The common theme here is that the bottlenecks, mass confusion, misinformation, system breakdown, laws changing every minute, have done nothing more than the opposite of what these programs were intended to do. While we’re waiting for this stimulus to kick in, we’re all limping along just trying to keep the lights on. I get it, I am not mad. I know everyone is doing the best they can given the circumstances. I just wish the solution wouldn’t have become another problem.

    I hope and pray for all of us that we get what we need to help keep our businesses serving America!

  71. Please post more pictures like the beach in Thailand – it is what we need right now. Oh, and thanks for all the great information and experience sharing with the PPP and EIDL.

  72. @Jason My company also applied for the PPP on Friday with BofA – got another email today so you may want to check if you got another information request.. Woke up at 5 AM Friday to be on the portal first. Then Monday they asked for our documents which we uploaded (a limit of 5 on the first pass so that was fun). It noted that it was being reviewed. Then today got another email asking for us to fill out two new versions of the PPP form – just the same info, organized slightly differently. Back to being under review. No idea of where we are in the queue or if they’ve even submitted to SBA.

  73. I doubt my single member llc will survive this.. EIDL be damned! -only @$$hats that *donate* to politicians will get that EIDL $$. I don’t make enough to stuff money into Roy Blunt, Josh Hawley, it Billy Long’s pocket books… but if I did, I’d wager I’d be at the front of the PPP and EIDL lines…
    [email protected] like “Michael” getting $500k via EIDL is why the rest of us are getting screwed like The Don screws Ivanka !!!

  74. I submitted the PPP (thru Arvest) and EIDL on Friday 4/3.

    Arvest has indicated my PPP loan has been approved and Arvest is working on the closing paperwork. Not sure when they will have that as I think they are still waiting on guidance from the SBA. GUIDANCE is my new “word of the month”.

    EIDL – no word. I did call the 800# as I was concerned that I had missed something on the application as it took about 20 minutes and no where asked what $ I needed. I had researched that it took over 2+ hours to complete. 800# guy, yes that is his nickname, said that sounded about right as they only recently did a “quick form” to get things going.

  75. I also applied for EIDL at the SBA web site two times, first one got a received Msg then I re submitted the EIDL and accepted the 10,000 advance towards it. Separately I applied with Chase for the PPP, I have received emails from both basicalyy saying they received my application and will notify me when ever they decide ? It is frustrating to say the least that there is no way of knowing NADA, If at least I knew when and if, I could plan ahead…last thing I want is to fire anybody at my Company. I am still paying every one 100% even as business has dried up but can’t keep doing so for long

  76. I just spoke with a very nice SBA person who looked up my EIDL application. It’s in the system and awaiting a loan officer. He said it could be a couple of weeks before I hear anything, hopefully sooner, but that they have been inundated with applications and they were getting to them as fast as they could. When I applied, I didn’t receive any kind of email confirmation, which is why I called . . . just wanted to make sure the application went through. It did, it’s in their system, and they’ll get to it as soon as humanly possible. I gotta say this was a very nice man with whom I spoke. So if you’ve applied but haven’t heard anything, it’s all likely in process.

  77. This sba eidl and grant program is out-of funding atm and they are waiting on congress to approve more funds. They don’t have any money to lend at the moment the money approved under the cares act is for PPP not eidl or the grant program that’s why we haven’t heard anything

  78. This is absolutely the best, most helpful, most hopeful article on both the EIDL and PPP process I’ve been able to find. THANK YOU. And thanks @susan for that confirmation that I just need to be patient…our public servants are very much that, and doing the very best they can under these defining circumstances they share with us.

  79. Just when I had given up hope, I finally got my EIDL payment today: $1,000 for every employee. I agree that the statute does not allow less than a $10,000 payment, but that is not a fight for today). I applied for the PPP and my business banker won’t return my emails. Have not heard anything on that application. Worrisome.

  80. I am in the same boat as most of you. I applied for the EIDL loan on 3/30 using the streamlined application and received an application number at the end. I’ve received no updates thus far. I’ve been trying to find a way to follow up and saw that now there is a way to create a log-in with your application (new application appears to be longer and requires more information). I called SBA and surprisingly got someone on the line who advised me NOT to put in a second application and that they will get back to me at some point. She couldn’t really provide any answers to any of my other questions and honestly, not sure if I trust what she’s saying … what are we to do??

  81. First and foremost, money aside I hope and pray each and every one of you and your family members are well…. our health is paramount at this crucial time…. secondly, I wish all of you business owners the best in getting funding. I do have to admit there are low lifes (as I call them who do not have businesses or who have a business “self employed title” who are applying for these loans. I think it is a disgrace for those who really need the funds.

  82. Carmen Langston,
    Did you hear this on Fox News right after the piece on Voter Fraud via absentee ballot? What is all the fuss about the virus? And supply side economics trickles down and Obama …….,.

  83. to Carmen,

    We who are self-employed, also are sole proprietors of long time businesses, pay taxes, work hard, are not paid much, contractors, in multiple fields of expertise, just like yourself ‘se supone’, and we are pleased to see that there are now avenues of funding that are only now, in the midst of a crisis available to us… again, just like yourself. Please do not randomly make such comments when you are not informed to make them. This seems to be a great forum for helping one another understand the parameters and survive this period of time. No need for negative remarks.

  84. Hello to all, after re-reading my first comment I can see where it could have been easily misinterpreted. Forgive me if I came across negative. Allow me to explain…. I received a call from someone who suggested I apply for the grant (I am neither self employed or own a business) and this person also informed me they would also be applying for said grant because they are “self employed “which I know for myself to be untrue. That was the low life behavior I was referring to. In no way was I trying to offend anyone who is rightfully self employed, etc…. I wish I could delete my first comment, again, I apologize if I offended anyone

  85. 4/3 (Friday) Submitted Application and Received EIDL Appl Nbr
    4/13 (Monday) Zero word or communication

  86. I applied for the PPP last week. 2 days later I received from my banker that it was submitted.
    Today I have an email with attached documents for me to sign. Will get those over to my banker tonight. Seems to be moving along pretty quickly. Will see how long it will take to receive the

  87. Hi Gayle,

    I am hearing they are capping PPP amounts of a loan at $15K, is this your experience?


  88. I am sorry..I thought this email from my banker was for the PPP. It was in regards to a deferral of a loan I have with them. papers I have to sign to get the loan deferred for 3 months.
    Sorry about that. Kind of jumped the gun…that is how badly I want this to all be over with.
    I have not heard or read about the 15,000 cap for PPP.

  89. I just got this email from SBA:
    Dear Applicant,
    On March 29, 2020, following the passage of the CARES Act, the SBA provided small business owners and non-profits impacted by COVID-19 with the opportunity to obtain up to a $10,000 Advance on their Economic Injury Disaster Loan (EIDL). The Advance is available as part of the full EIDL application and will be transferred into the account you provide shortly after your application is submitted. To ensure that the greatest number of applicants can receive assistance during this challenging time, the amount of your Advance will be determined by the number of your pre-disaster (i.e., as of January 31, 2020) employees. The Advance will provide $1,000 per employee up to a maximum of $10,000.

  90. For those who are interested – this is part of the letter sent last Friday April 10, to Congress from the SBA: Important to understand the lack of funding currently if you’re applying for PPP relief: “The $10 billion EIDL program is intended to help small businesses cope with the pandemic by allowing them to meet pressing non-payroll expenses and to prepare to rebuild operations. Small businesses started applying for EIDLs on March 16 for loans up to a $2 million cap coupled with, if necessary, an immediate $10,000 emergency grant. The typical loan request is $200,000.

    Starting yesterday, SBA informed small businesses that loans will be rationed to a maximum of $15,000 per applicant. Such limited economic relief will be insufficient for a great many main street employers.

    We are concerned that the PPP faces a similar fate in the near future. PPP allows businesses to pay their employees’ wages and benefits and covers costs like rent and utilities throughout the pandemic. This tool is particularly important because it enables businesses to keep paying workers even if workers cannot work. Paychecks are better than unemployment checks.

    PPP is on target to reach its $349 billion limit. In the one week since PPP launched, 250,000 small businesses and sole proprietorships have sought in excess of $100 billion. Today, independent contractors, many gig economy workers, and self-employed individuals — a group that makes up over 80% the small business population – are able to access PPP. Without an infusion of resources, PPP is unlikely to meet outstanding needs for a large number of small businesses.

    Since the CARES Act became law, the Chamber has hosted more than 200 virtual sessions with tens of thousands of small businesses, to encourage them to secure the financial relief Congress promised. The gratitude they have for Congress’s help is balanced by their understandable sense of fear and uncertainty.

    Small businesses need Congress to act. No family and no business should be bankrupted by the temporary economic disruption caused by the coronavirus pandemic. Congress’s urgent action is needed to replenish EIDL and to bolster PPP, and to help small businesses survive.


    Suzanne P. Clark

  91. I applied for the EIDL with advance on April 3 on the sba website and got a number but nothing yet. Recieved same email today about $1000 per employee. I applied for ppp through webster bank on April 5th and 2 days later they left a message stating they are working as fast as they can but nothing so far. I applied for the ppp through Paypal loan builder yesterday and up loaded all documents, as i been a client of Paypal since 1999 when they had a different name, it was X.com. Recieved 2 emails today to fill out and confirm the SBA form and loan documents for the ppp. So i got approved for the PPP loan but no funds as of yet. I have a small business in CT.

  92. There is no more money….Notice: Lapse in Appropriations
    SBA is unable to accept new applications at this time for the Economic Injury Disaster Loan (EIDL)-COVID-19 related assistance program (including EIDL Advances) based on available appropriations funding.

    Applicants who have already submitted their applications will continue to be processed on a first-come, first-served basis.

  93. Here is a CNN article: I did not see a mention of EIDL, just PPP


    The numbers
    As of 6:30 a.m. ET, $338 billion in loans have been approved, per an official with the Small Business Administration. By the 10 a.m. ET hour, the agency had posted a message on its website.
    “The SBA is currently unable to accept new applications for the Paycheck Protection Program based on available appropriations funding,” the notice read. “Similarly, we are unable to enroll new PPP lenders at this time.”
    What it means: The Small Business Administration sent a notice to banks Wednesday night making clear the allocated funds for the program were on the verge of being exhausted, according to a copy sent to CNN.
    “Once the authorization limit is reached, SBA will not be able to accept any new applications for the Paycheck Protection Program,” the update to lenders states. Also of note: “SBA is unable to maintain a queue for PPP applications.”
    This is a first-come-first-serve program. Once the funding runs out, the queue of applications can no longer be maintained. That has repercussions for when Congress does actually reload the funds.

  94. Update: We received our confirmation number from the SBA, our PPP loan has been approved and should be funded shortly. We submitted our application on the morning of April 3, and received confirmation from the bank last night at 10pm Pacific time, right under the wire. I think some people above are confused about the process. Submitting application to the bank is step one, then the bank has to verify all of the information, send it to underwriting, THEN it gets submitted to the SBA through the Etran system. Getting confirmation from your lender that they received your app doesn’t put you in line for the funds.

  95. I Submitted for PPP with Chase and EIDL with SBA ,in both cases I got a confirmation number. then the SBA sent me a change of status from received to Received-in review ; I have had 2 Credit Check notifications , both from SBA on different ocasions. I wonder if I am in line or if the fact that they pulled my credit means I have funds set aside? (Wishful thinking perhaps)
    Does anyone who actually got funds or has been approved had this situation?

  96. Hi everyone
    just wanted to give you an update. We were notified that once the next PPP funds are approved that we will be next. Who knows how long though. we had to confirm additional business info and re-certify our application. which our banker told us this would be next.
    anyone else get this far?

  97. Hi Gayle and everyone else,
    I received an email yesterday that said basically the same thing, (Chase Bank), that my PPP loan was in step 3 of 4, which meant it was bank approved and awaiting SBA approval once more funds are available. No further documentation was needed from my bank. For timeline, I applied for the PPP on 4/7 which was the earliest my bank allowed me, after submitting the initial inquiry on 4/3. I also applied for the EIDL on 4/3 but have had zero response on that as of yet, not even a credit inquiry. Wait, one response, saying the max advance amount was reduced from $10k to $1k per employee. Thanks. That $2k will save my business for sure…

  98. Assuming the new legislation is passed to add $ to PPP and EIDL – does anyone know if one needs to re-apply direct with SBA for EIDL? I submitted an application on 4/3, and received an Application Nbr. To date, I have only received the “$10k really means $1K per employee” email.

    Thanks for any insight.

  99. Sorry, MEANT does one have to re-apply for EIDL ???? Fortunately, I received my PPP.
    Assuming the new legislation is passed to add $ to PPP and EIDL – does anyone know if one needs to re-apply direct with SBA for EIDL? I submitted an application on 4/3, and received an Application Nbr. To date, I have only received the “$10k really means $1K per employee” email.

    Thanks for any insight.

  100. My bank had us fill out some additional information and when more money is approved we are
    supposedly ready to go through the process. I have not received anything in regards to the EIDL loan.

  101. I applied for the EIDL loan on the SBA website on 3/31.
    I received money today in my bank account

  102. Hi, Bobby,

    That’s good to hear. I’m wondering if they provide any explanation on how they calculate one’s loan, since they don’t ask when you file. Your news if the first I have heard of someone actually receiving this EIDL money. thanks!

  103. That is great Bobby. I wish they would let us borrow beyond the grant though. they base it on how many employees you have and that amount will not not pay all my bills. They make it look like you will receive 10,000 but forget to tell you the rest of it.

  104. Hi Cathy! I applied for SBA disaster loan for my two businesses on March 23rd. I received EIDL loan advance deposited directly into my accounts for $1000 per employee. Yesterday I received an email from SBA with a loan quote and filled out Identity Verification and Electronic Disbursement for one of the businesses. The screen says that my “Application is being processed” and that the next step will be signing closing documents. Have you or anyone else reached this point? How long to “process”? Hope everyone else is having luck. Would love to hear whats next…

  105. hi Vince,
    Thanks for the information. I just saw the 1000 advance has arrived in bank account. Saw they pulled my credit yesterday. I am the only employee. So,that’s something. My question to you would be how long after receiving your ‘advance’ for the EIDL, did you then receive a notice from SBA on that loan, with “we are processing” and a loan quote? I’m not asking the amount of course, but was it basically something reasonable? I have no idea what this is based upon, everything is rather confusing. So you know what they are basing this amount on? Thanks very much for any insight whatsoever. as you know, so many components and different scenarios.
    Would be great to obtain enough to stay afloat. Cathy

  106. Hello All,
    I have a question for anyone who succesfully got their PPP from Chase Bank in the first round, I received an email from Chase yesterday saying I was in stage 4 of the process and had been approved and they were sending to the SBA for approval/funding (pending new funds being authorized by congress). My question is, How long betwen the approval and actually getting the funds in your account? Thanks Much

  107. It is great to hear some of you are finally getting somewhere. I hope everyone is staying sane. I started thinking too much this morning and the fear started to get me. I cant wait till we can all see some good out of all of this.

  108. Cathy, received the $1000 per employee on April 14th (directly deposited into my account). Received email from SBA April 19th to login and enter more information. The amount was very good. It is about 1/3 of my gross sales last year. I have read on various internet posts that they started actually capping the amounts at 15k, I am hoping that is not true, as 15k is almost pointless.

  109. Vince, Thanks very much for this information. really helps. I have a very small business, though, so don’t know how they quantify – but hearing that it was well suitable for you and that it actually got accomplished is encouraging right there. so thanks for taking the time. Stay well. and good luck, Cathy

  110. I applied for the EIDL on April 3rd and received my money today. Still noting about the PPP loan I submitted but it’s something.

  111. I was told by my credit union that because I haven’t filed my 2019 tax returns yet, I am not eligible for the PPP. The woman working on my loan indicated that I needed to have a Schedule C as well as payroll info from 2019 to go forward, despite the fact I’ve not filed my business nor personal 2019 returns (I submitted the extension filed by my accountant). I don’t think the PPP was supposed to be this difficult to get . . . I remember Mnuchin stating that business owners should be able to walk into the bank, fill out the forms, and walk out with their SBA loan money. That isn’t anywhere near happening. I’ve given up on the PPP and hope the EIDL will come through.

  112. Susan,
    When I applied at Chase (Still haven’t received any funds) I submitted a document prepared from my payroll processor (ADP) which basically stated all the payroll info for the last 12 months ( Not last year) as I read this will give the SBA the average in which to base the PPP deposit. Hope this info is useful

  113. Submitted EIDL and PPP applications March 31, B of A asked for additional information on April 20, turns out we are not eligible for PPP because we 1099 the people that work for us, not w2. Credit bureau for EIDL pulled April 19, EIDL advance deposited to our account April 21 for $10K (10 employees/contractors). Still no sign of an email to proceed with the actual EIDL. Most of what I have read seems to be that email to proceed usually precedes advance, so not sure what happened to it. Emailed today to ask about it. Going to call on Monday if no email arrives over the weekend.

  114. Applied for EIDL on March 23rd. Filled out the original long form that asked what my Corona loss was. I provided an estimate Based on my assumption that this thing would last three months, and virtually all of my projects had been cancelled, and I had debts to service, etc. I then received an email instructing me to resubmit using the short form, requesting the advance. $1000 in my case. I received the $1000 advance shortly after that. I received an email stating that my loan was approved in the amount of $xxx which was exactly 50% of what I had requested. No explanation provided. Even at 50% it was considerably more than $15,000. I have filled out everything on the portal but I’m waiting to receive the loan documents for signature. Not sure if they will come as an email, but that’s what I’m expecting. It would take so little for the SBS to provide just a little more information on the process so that we weren’t always wondering if we did something wrong. It says I have 30 days to sign the documents, I hope they don’t use all 30 days up getting the documents to me. My bank has deferred some loan payments for three months, if they had not, I’d be in a world of hurt waiting for the SBA loan. I’ll report here when I get the $.

  115. I havent heard a word. I guess when we applied it was the short form cause it never asked how much more we wanted to borrow. It didnt ask how the virus effected my business. it only pertained to the 10,000 grant. I am glad you received some relief.

  116. I received the $1,000 today from my EIDL application via direct deposit into my business account. I haven’t had any kind of email or other correspondence from the SBA, and I didn’t request a specific amount when I applied for this loan. So I have no idea what will happen going forward. I’d also applied for the PPP loan/grant as well, and my credit union required that I apply as an independent contractor, as opposed to applying as my incorporated business. Their reasoning made little sense, but that’s how they wanted the application. So far, no word back from them. At least I know the EIDL is in the works, tho.

  117. Susan, how do you pay yourself? If you pay yourself as an employee, taking taxes out every time you pay yourself, then you are not an independent contractor, and your credit union was wrong. Bankers don’t know everything. However if you pay yourself through distributions and make quarterly tax deposits then it might make sense to be treated as a contractor.

  118. Hi all,
    Received notification of a credit inquiry on my report 2 days ago. Today I see I finally received the EIDL advance of $2000. (Yay, at least it’s something!) Still no email or communication at all regarding any actual loan amount from EIDL, but I’m hoping, from some other folks experience, that they will get in touch soon.
    Regarding PPP, my application is still in Stage 4 – pending SBA approval, as it missed the first round of $. For timeline, I applied for the EIDL on 4/3 and the PPP on 4/6, the first available date from Chase Bank.

  119. Erika, how did you find out about your SBA status on your PPP application? I got an email from my credit union on Tuesday that the SBA had “accepted” the 178 application they’d sent on Monday and that the credit union would be getting with all applicants as they go through the approval process, regarding the needed paperwork/loan documents. I’m not sure if “accepted” and “approved” are the same things, tho. I see where my credit was pulled a couple of days ago, but I’ve not heard anything about the “accepted” PPP loan . . . how did you find your status with the SBA?

  120. Hi Susan,
    My bank, Chase, has been emailing me updates, that’s how I knew about the stage 4 status. I received another update yesterday saying they had now submitted it to SBA (exact verbiage):

    “I am pleased to let you know that we sent your PPP application to the SBA for processing. We’re working closely with the SBA as they’re receiving a tremendous response this week.

    We don’t know timing yet, but we’ll email you as soon as the SBA notifies us of their decision on your loan.

    I’m proud that our teams worked tirelessly to deliver more than 220,000 applications – including yours – to the SBA this week. And we’ll continue to process and submit additional applications until PPP funds are exhausted.”

    I’ve been happy with the level of communication from Chase. Everything has been pretty straightforward and the process/application was simple. Aside from the initial delay in getting the application available to everyone, it’s been fairly smooth sailing, just a waiting game from SBA.

    I am also helping my folks with their PPP application for their business with US Bank, who, I must say, has been much less helpful and super slow, with frequent website crashes and BS updates. I started on their application right after my own, around 4/7 and submitted the required documents along with the app. Over a week ago, they asked to submit the docs again, but their website wouldn’t upload them for several days. When I finally got them loaded, several days later, they sent an update to go online and confirm the amount. Now I get another update to go online and sign the document. But as we are trying to do that, the website is crashing again. It’s maddening, time-consuming, and causing a complete delay in getting their app to the SBA. If anyone else is with US Bank, you have my sympathies…. Sorry for the rant.

  121. @Vince,

    Hope you’re doing well. Was reading through the comments and saw yours being about as close as my app has gotten. Does amount approved mean you got your money and if so, what was the timeline like before you received funds TIA

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