I’m not sure what to make of all of this, but I’m curious to hear what you guys think…
In this post:
Airlines being urged to block middle seats
Last week American Airlines announced that it would start selling flights to capacity as of July 1. Previously the airline sold flights to at most 85% of capacity. That doesn’t in any way correlate to every middle seat being empty, but rather in a standard configuration it means that nearly every other middle seat would be empty.
American Airlines is now selling flights to capacity
We’ve seen a lot of anger around this move from American Airlines. For example, during a Senate committee hearing yesterday, Senator Bernie Sanders asked experts why the practice of selling middle seats on planes hasn’t been stopped, based on everything we know about the importance of physical distancing:
- Dr. Anthony Fauci (Director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases) said that the practice of flights being full is “something of concern”
- Dr. Robert Redfield (Director of the CDC) said that “there was substantial disappointment with American Airlines” and that they “don’t think this is the right message,” but also said that this isn’t something that is “under critical review” at the CDC
Similarly, yesterday the Federation of American Scientists published an open letter directed at the CEOs of American and United, saying that their “decisions to book flights to capacity place crew and passengers in excessive danger,” and also that the organization urges airlines to “immediately reverse [the] decision and to protect passengers and crew from COVID-19 to the extent possible.”
We call upon the CEOs of @united and @AmericanAir to refrain from flying full flights while coronavirus continues to infect thousands nationwide. pic.twitter.com/2tY5zr4Rwj
— Federation of American Scientists🔬 (@scientistsorg) June 30, 2020
My take on airlines blocking middle seats
Let me note two things upfront, before I share my take:
- I believe we should trust scientists… period; I’m not here to question their logic or recommendations
- All along I’ve commended Alaska, Delta, JetBlue, and Southwest, for choosing to block seats; this is a great initiative that should put people at ease, and I’d hope this gives them a competitive advantage that people are willing to pay extra for
With that out of the way, here are a few thoughts I have:
Why are American and United being singled out?
First I have to share a point of confusion on my end, specifically regarding why American and United are being singled out here?
- Other airlines have been booking flights to capacity throughout this pandemic, including Allegiant, Frontier, Hawaiian, and Spirit; so why is the outrage being directed specifically at American and United?
- I think American is being given too much credit here for what the former policy was; the airline was “only” blocking 15% of seats, which meant that most people were still seated next to strangers
Frontier hasn’t been blocking seats all along
Some distance is safer than no distance
The CDC has long recommended that people maintain six feet of distance whenever possible. It goes without saying that even with an empty middle seat you’re not going to have six feet between you and the next person.
Some airline executives have consistently used this as a talking point. Heck, even today, United Airlines CEO Scott Kirby said “look, you can’t be six feet apart on an airplane, middle seat or not,” and instead said the focus should be on air filtration, cabin cleaning, and masks.
Those airlines opposed to blocking seats make the concept of distancing binary, essentially arguing that if you can’t have six feet of distance, then there’s no point in any distance at all.
However, scientists argue that even if you can’t get a full six feet of distance, some distance is safer than no distance. As is noted in the letter from the Federation of American Scientists:
“Even air travel at 50 percent capacity, or flights with middle seats left open, while not allowing six feet of distance between people, would be better than nothing.”
I think there’s something to be said for that logic. Being two feet from someone is safer than being a few inches from someone. That raises a question:
- Do some airline executives not believe that a little bit of distance is better than no distance?
- Or do some airline executives believe there is a difference, but it’s so minimal that it’s not worth blocking seats for that reason?
Some distance is better than no distance
Who should foot the bill for empty seats?
Even for those of us who are onboard with the concept of middle seats being blocked, the next question is whether we as consumers are willing to foot the bill for this?
Logically airfare should increase by 50-100% if people aren’t going to have seatmates (50% on planes with 3-3 configurations, and 100% on planes with 2-2 configurations). Are we okay with that as consumers, or how should this be paid for?
Consumers right now have the option of booking airlines that block seats, though at the same time Allegiant, American, Frontier, Spirit, and United flights are all filling up as well, despite the lack of blocked seats.
Why are people booking these airlines? Is it because:
- They don’t actually care about sitting next to someone
- They just want the cheapest fare
- They don’t know that these airlines aren’t blocking seats while others are
While the government could absolutely mandate that airlines block seats so that no one has a neighbor, this would invariably lead to fare hikes, since demand would likely remain the same (or maybe even increase), while supply would drop sharply.
Before anyone argues “well a lot of planes are grounded, so airlines could put more planes into service.” While that’s true, airlines are unlikely to put planes back in the sky if they’re losing money for each extra flight they’re adding.
Lastly, there’s no practical way for airlines to regulate airfare, given how complex airline pricing is. Don’t expect that this is something that the government would practically oversee.
Are consumers willing to pay more for empty middle seats?
Bottom line
Scientists (among others) are urging airlines to keep middle seats empty. I trust scientists, and on top of that the logic makes sense to me — while you still won’t get six feet of distance, some distance is better than none.
The question is how something like this should be implemented, especially when it’s clear that so many people only care about getting the lowest fare. We could see an executive order requiring airlines to block seats, but are consumers willing to pay an extra 50-100% for their tickets?
What do you think — should the government require airlines to block middle seats? If so, how do you see this being paid for?
ALL US BASED Airlines (and/or all US airline corporations subject to ANY form of federal or local financial subsidy/support) should be blocking middle-seats. PERIOD. P E R I O D.
In for a penny, in for a pound.
Airlines are either ALL IN, and subject to the BEST, B E S T, Exercise of protecting human lives,
or they're not! And, human lives are put more at risk if the middle seats...
ALL US BASED Airlines (and/or all US airline corporations subject to ANY form of federal or local financial subsidy/support) should be blocking middle-seats. PERIOD. P E R I O D.
In for a penny, in for a pound.
Airlines are either ALL IN, and subject to the BEST, B E S T, Exercise of protecting human lives,
or they're not! And, human lives are put more at risk if the middle seats are filled up with other people decreasing social distancing.
As Flyers we're being asked, AS ARE ALL FEDERAL & LOCAL GOVERNMENTS, to supports US airlines that ""max for-NOW-profit"" putting US lives at more risk than is really necessary;
OR, to support those airlines that ""act in the BEST interest of protecting US lives"".
Airlines are: All in or all out!
Any Airline: if they get, got, ask for, expect, petition for ANY FORM of US governmental support or subsidy on the Federal level, or any local airport levels: they SHOULD BLOCK THE MIDDLE SEATS. Or, they should otherwise be blocked and de-listed from any form of Federal or local economic subsidy or support. Sadly our knee-jerk Congress (both parties)
may have neglected to write this into law; THIS SHOULD BE WRITTEN INTO LAW.
Because this pandemic isn't going to end this month, this quarter, this year or even early next year, DESPITE when/if any working vaccine is widely available, middle seats should be left empty to best protect us, as flyers; the same way planes fly to Europe with a full tank of fuel and not a 1/2 tank of fuel hoping for the best. Flying in a metal-enclosed tube will always be a risk for human lives until either Hurd-immunity or a fully working vaccine is actually taken by all humans who can be exposed to the virus.
SO: BLOCKING MIDDLE seats NOW is the airline equivalent on the corporate-level of telling/requiring passengers TO WEAR FACE MASKS to be able to get on the plane!
It's really no different! US airlines MUST PUT UP or SHUT UP, and help to protect all of us as flyers.
No US airline should be using 'now flights', to either make-up for 'lost flights' (past revenue) or to max current COVID revenue for either current income, contribution-to-profits, or executive bonus revenue-targets.
The responsibility of Individual US Citizens and Residents to act with SOCIAL RESPONSIBILITY as our country tries to re-open socially & economically, ALSO extents to corporations. It is time for corporations: US Airlines! to exercise social responsibility and to protect our lives as flyers! One human life protected and saved is worth more than all the airlines' corporate profits; OR they should just stop flying the planes altogether until COVID is past us.
ALL US Airlines should be blocking the middle seat as a matter of: CITIZENSHIP and NATIONAL SECURITY. And, ALL other US business should stop using US airlines that don't protect US citizens and residents: who are either employees or customers of their product.
@Sarah
What did i say that was anti-science? I merely explained to Lucky that he shouldn't mindlessly follow "the science." He is a bright guy and capable of thinking for himself. Judging from your comment, I assume that you have a basic misunderstanding of what science is. Science is a method of inquiry, not an immutable, infallible repository of knowledge. Scientists are almost always wrong and should strive to be less wrong. What is damning...
@Sarah
What did i say that was anti-science? I merely explained to Lucky that he shouldn't mindlessly follow "the science." He is a bright guy and capable of thinking for himself. Judging from your comment, I assume that you have a basic misunderstanding of what science is. Science is a method of inquiry, not an immutable, infallible repository of knowledge. Scientists are almost always wrong and should strive to be less wrong. What is damning of the performance of so many public health officials during this pandemic is the patently politicized nature of their advice. We were lied to about masks to mask the failure of preparation of PPE supplies. We were then lied to about the danger of mass gatherings to appease the woke mob.
An example of the contingent nature of scientific "truth" is the case of hydroxychloroquine. It was initially touted as a potential treatment for COVID-19, but then quickly became a point of derision by the left. Trump was mocked by everyone from Steven Colbert to Amy Klobuchar to even the CCP for taking it himself. One of the major studies claiming it had no benefit, published in the Lancet by a Harvard Medical School physician (about as "elite" as you can get in medicine), had to be retracted because of questionable data and one of the co-authors was dismissed from his appointments. A large-scale retrospective analysis of 2,541 patients out of Henry Ford Health System in Detroit just yesterday showed that treatment with hydroxychloroquine cut the death rate in half. How do you like that science? Perhaps we should all be a bit (or even a lot) more charitable and empathetic. Scientific knowledge is always changing. Innumeracy, however, is not so forgivable. When appealing to "science," please actually read and interpret the data and don't just use the headlines you favor as a political cudgel.
I see Sarah is afflicted with TDS, much like UA-NYC . How many times do I have to tell you that I did not vote for Trump? How many times do I have to tell you I started wearing a mask in January?
Given the huge drop in demand worldwide offering to keep middle seats free could actually be an earner for the airlines. Many flyers know the huge impact on comfort that changes when you have eg the middle seat of three empty in economy.
@Rob - maybe you missed the subtext of the post I was challenging - it wasn't about "scientists may disagree with each other", it was "don't trust scientists". And yes, that is the type of trash for Reddit, as that is the type of attitude that has gotten the US in the F'd state it's in due to the lack of leadership at the top.
Airlines want an additional $30 billion bailout. I like the idea of providing these funds to buy middle seats on each flight operated proportional to seats that have been sold in economy. If the plane has a capacity of 99 seats with 6 seats ina row and 33 (1/3 of capacity) seats have been sold, then compensation from bailout would be 11 seats at lowest available fare for the route.
I agree with most other people who say that if bars', restaurants', and gyms' capacity can be restricted, why not airlines? I'm not referring to what is necessarily legal and able to be done given current regulations. Why is an airplane, any different than any other place with a finite amount of volume?
@iamhere
If airlines were allowed to "run their business" they would all be bankrupted right now without government bailout.
Chinese aviation regulator CAAC advised (in China, that's as good as mandating by law) at the height of the pandemic that airlines seat only one passenger per three seats. Go look it up instead of just assuming things without even a simple cursory Google search.
And then all of these "not 6 feet therefore useless" comments...
@iamhere
If airlines were allowed to "run their business" they would all be bankrupted right now without government bailout.
Chinese aviation regulator CAAC advised (in China, that's as good as mandating by law) at the height of the pandemic that airlines seat only one passenger per three seats. Go look it up instead of just assuming things without even a simple cursory Google search.
And then all of these "not 6 feet therefore useless" comments which just shows you haven't even read this blog post itself. Oh, and of course, the comments which make masks and blocked middle seats seem like they're incompatible with each other.
Michael O'Leary had a heart attack after reading this article as blocking the middle seat would bust Ryanair's business model of deliberately allocating it before any other.
No, let the airlines run their business. A few primary reasons:
1. The US is the only country that I know of talking about blocking the middle seat. Chinese airlines and other foreign airlines are not blocking middle seats. The rate of infection spreading in China and Europe is much lower than the US and new cases reported are also much lower than the US. China also has many more people. Even though travel...
No, let the airlines run their business. A few primary reasons:
1. The US is the only country that I know of talking about blocking the middle seat. Chinese airlines and other foreign airlines are not blocking middle seats. The rate of infection spreading in China and Europe is much lower than the US and new cases reported are also much lower than the US. China also has many more people. Even though travel has declined there are still a lot of people out and about.
2. One middle seat is not six feet, so it does not really matter.
3. What about the rest of society. Some states are doing some strict measures. Others are not. Some have silly rules which don't have anything to do with the virus, while others had to close down heavily populated public areas after re-opening because people weren't following social distancing. Then, there's masks. Some people just don't care about wearing a mask.
Didnt the taxpayers bailout airlines with $16 Billion which logically should help defray the costs of lowered capacity????
@Ben...
Please do your research before posting (mis)information. Hawaiian Airlines has been taking physical distancing into account for the past couple months. All aircraft are booked to no more than 70 percent capacity. For example, all B and E seats on the B717 are being kept empty (unless occupied by family member traveling together). A321neo and A330 cabins are also being capped below maximum capacity for the same reason.
Seriously! People rely on your...
@Ben...
Please do your research before posting (mis)information. Hawaiian Airlines has been taking physical distancing into account for the past couple months. All aircraft are booked to no more than 70 percent capacity. For example, all B and E seats on the B717 are being kept empty (unless occupied by family member traveling together). A321neo and A330 cabins are also being capped below maximum capacity for the same reason.
Seriously! People rely on your blog. Don't blemish its credibility. I'd be more than happy to provide you proof if you're too lazy to look.
@cargocult would be against science. After all he is a disciple of the Dear Leader who has proved he is against science in every way. Except of course when he picks up his cell phone to push his white supremacist agenda.
Here are my thoughts...I actually wrote an opinion piece on this a couple days ago (https://airlinegeeks.com/2020/06/29/opinion-don-t-fault-airlines-for-not-blocking-the-middle-seat/), but here is the quick version. I don't think we can fault airlines right now for not blocking middle seats. I absolutely think we should keep doing it (and huge kudos to Delta, JetBlue, Southwest, etc.). But just like how most restaurants and bars had to be told to lower capacity by state governments, we need the government to...
Here are my thoughts...I actually wrote an opinion piece on this a couple days ago (https://airlinegeeks.com/2020/06/29/opinion-don-t-fault-airlines-for-not-blocking-the-middle-seat/), but here is the quick version. I don't think we can fault airlines right now for not blocking middle seats. I absolutely think we should keep doing it (and huge kudos to Delta, JetBlue, Southwest, etc.). But just like how most restaurants and bars had to be told to lower capacity by state governments, we need the government to step in if we want to see meaningful change. Delta, JetBlue and Southwest are serving as those "businesses" where those that need to travel but would feel unsafe on other airlines can go. But airlines are no different than other businesses. Across the board, they're going to work to protect their bottom line. So I don't think we should go out and burn flags with the faces of Doug Parker and Scott Kirby on them. But I do think we could stand to have a higher authority step in. Especially given that airlines may receive another round of government funding this month
The content on travel blogs is seriously suffering these days. Nothing else to talk about so you whip up this garbage. Talk about going downhill. If you think that having an empty middle seat is safer you're a fool. Just stay at home like all the other whining Karens out there.
@Jerry:
And ignore the guidance of the CDC and WHO who, for the first few months, stated wearing masks was not necessary?
As it was, Trump was accused of being a racist for halting flights from China.
The govt should have required masks on all flights and distancing since this pandemic began. It’s a bureaucratic failure on many levels.
@ Taylor...BINGO!! Middle seat is blocked so what about the guy or lady sitting right behind you? What if the the plane has a 2-3-2 config? There are 2 sitting next to each other regardless. To the extent airlines have to block seats they should raise the prices on the remains seats for sale.
UA-NYC - what’s nonsense about it? Can we stop with ad hominem attacks and red herring and if you want to refute someone do so with facts, statistics, etc. Every study for the flu showed masks were not helpful. I can show several if you want. We do not have any, much less many, controlled mask studies for Covid. The CDC and the WHO both said covid wasn’t a risk, then masks wouldn’t help, and...
UA-NYC - what’s nonsense about it? Can we stop with ad hominem attacks and red herring and if you want to refute someone do so with facts, statistics, etc. Every study for the flu showed masks were not helpful. I can show several if you want. We do not have any, much less many, controlled mask studies for Covid. The CDC and the WHO both said covid wasn’t a risk, then masks wouldn’t help, and then they both reversed course. The WHO in early June said masks didn’t help much again but retracted a day later. In mid March, expert epidemiologists estimated a range of 50k deaths to millions of deaths in the US, all with the same data. The point? The scientists disagree frequently, the data is usually not settled, and the scientists that get the most publicity tend to be the ones that politicians and the media want to show. The Imperial college study showing millions dead in the US got an unbelievable amount of press and political talk. The Stanford and Oxford studies that came out the same week that said 50-250k got nearly zero press and no backing by politicians. Same level of scientist and research, arguably more.
@Cargocult - not sure why you even post on these travel blogs...take your nonsense to Reddit already
We can all make that decision. I am not going to fly with someone in the seat next to me. Period. If someone else doesnt mind, thinks this is all a hoax or just wants to roll the dice. Fine by me.
If you want distance buy yourself 9 seats. Otherwise don’t fly.
The USA has 385 deaths per million. Australia has 4 deaths per million from COVID-19. I know where I would catch a domestic flight, and where I wouldn’t.
Protection from COVID-19 doesn’t magically appear when you are 6 feet away. It’s a continuum. The further you are physically distanced the better, and if you have the protection of the back of a seat between you and another passenger, then you have greater protection. 6 feet...
The USA has 385 deaths per million. Australia has 4 deaths per million from COVID-19. I know where I would catch a domestic flight, and where I wouldn’t.
Protection from COVID-19 doesn’t magically appear when you are 6 feet away. It’s a continuum. The further you are physically distanced the better, and if you have the protection of the back of a seat between you and another passenger, then you have greater protection. 6 feet is better than 5 feet, and 18 inches is better than nothing.
Thank you, I will now dismount my high horse.
"Or do some airline executives believe there is a difference, but it’s so minimal that it’s not worth blocking seats for that reason?"
Maybe there is a difference and maybe there isn't. Either way, it's minimal and not selling the middle seats is very unlikely to alter the infection rate.
The preference is 6-feet of separation. If that is not possible, then masks.
There are no masks in restaurants so they have to have 6-feet....
"Or do some airline executives believe there is a difference, but it’s so minimal that it’s not worth blocking seats for that reason?"
Maybe there is a difference and maybe there isn't. Either way, it's minimal and not selling the middle seats is very unlikely to alter the infection rate.
The preference is 6-feet of separation. If that is not possible, then masks.
There are no masks in restaurants so they have to have 6-feet. There is not 6-feet in airplanes so you have to wear a mask (even though I think it does little good).
Not selling the middle seat when there is some right in front of you, right behind you, and two-feet away is all but meaningless.
If you don't want to sit next to someone simply cancel your flight or fly Delta or Southwest. Or stay home...
I’m old enough to have flown in the 1960s and 1970s, when there were smoking sections. The non-smoking section may have ended at row 34 and smoking started at row 35. But everything south of row 25 stunk like cigarettes.
@Chris
I, as well as most people, find eating much harder than flying when it comes to wearing a mask
@Ben (Lucky)
"I believe we should trust scientists… period; I’m not here to question their logic or recommendations."
Clearly you don't realize just how frightening that statement is.
Er, I meant, I am in complete agreement with you, comrade!
The FAS is not some "neutral" scientific body.
"The Federation of American Scientists, founded in 1945, is devoted to the view that scientists, engineers and other technically trained people have the ethical obligation to ensure that...
@Ben (Lucky)
"I believe we should trust scientists… period; I’m not here to question their logic or recommendations."
Clearly you don't realize just how frightening that statement is.
Er, I meant, I am in complete agreement with you, comrade!
The FAS is not some "neutral" scientific body.
"The Federation of American Scientists, founded in 1945, is devoted to the view that scientists, engineers and other technically trained people have the ethical obligation to ensure that science and technology is applied to the benefit of humankind. FAS works to reduce the risk of nuclear weapons and infectious disease, works to make government more informed and more transparent, and strives for a more educated public by fighting the spread of disinformation."
The idea that scientists are impartial or unbiased is laughable. This is why "follow the science" is a vacant non-idea. If the answers for life's problems were so obvious, why would we have a political process to adjudicate policies? Why do we even have brains? Clearly we should be abdicating decision-making to AI overlords. Masks before April 3rd were unnecessary or even bad. After April 3rd they were essential. Before the BLM protests mass gatherings were a threat to survival. Afterwards, not protesting was a threat to survival. Who knew that was how science worked? What a glorious thing to witness the rise of the vanguard. Send the capitalist roaders at AA and UA to the reeducation camps. Back to the future of Year Zero!
Isn't Delta blocking all middle seats? Just fly Delta...
Scientifically speaking, eliminating the middle seat is going to do nothing to decrease your odds of contracting COVID. The mouth breather hacking up a lung in the row behind you should be your primary concern. And if you truly valued your life and health you wouldn’t put yourself on a floating Petri dish in the sky. Closed environments with 10+ people are asking for trouble. Stay home and survive, children.
Flying ought to scare people into wearing their PPE as much as possible. That is the BEST tactic to fight the spread. Having an empty seat next to you gives you a false sense of security and you relax your guard without good justification.
The issue I take with this is that if you're flying domestically, you have other options than flying. While the alternatives may not be convenient, they are still options.
If and airline not blocking middle seats is a threat to your health and well being you can always drive. If you can't drive, greyhound (although it may not be much better). And if that doesn't work for you (and this is extreme) WALK! Or...
The issue I take with this is that if you're flying domestically, you have other options than flying. While the alternatives may not be convenient, they are still options.
If and airline not blocking middle seats is a threat to your health and well being you can always drive. If you can't drive, greyhound (although it may not be much better). And if that doesn't work for you (and this is extreme) WALK! Or if your pockets are deep enough, fly private.
I know some will say that these are crazy options and no one should have to do it...you're right. No one should have to do it...but if my health was dependent upon a middle seat being blocked and airlines refusing to do it, then the alternatives seem like VERY reasonable options over dying by the hands of COVID.
If you fear COVID, have a distaste for the way American, United, and the others are going about business, then tell them by spending your money elsewhere. But to knowing get on a plane, take a seat on said plane, fly your route, and then get on the internet to complain just makes you look foolish.
If you feel uncomfortable, GET UP and stroll back across the jet bridge and wait for another flight that isn't as full. Or, take your money and fly with someone who operates in a manner you deem appropriate.
Most airlines announce during boarding if the flight will be full or not. Also, you can tell by how many folks are sitting at the gate with you if the flight is going to be full or not. To get on the plane, even after American and United has ALREADY SAID that they aren't going to block middle seats, and then complain about it makes as much sense as eating a bad steak at a fancy restaurant and then complaining that the taste was horrible after you've finished the last bite.
Blocking middle seats might give people the perception of safety but it really isn't creating social distancing. There are still people within a foot directly seated directly in front or behind you. And, on smaller aircraft, there often isn't even a middle seat to block. Unless the government is going to compensate the airlines for the lost revenue, I think airlines should be able to sell all seats on the aircraft as long as they...
Blocking middle seats might give people the perception of safety but it really isn't creating social distancing. There are still people within a foot directly seated directly in front or behind you. And, on smaller aircraft, there often isn't even a middle seat to block. Unless the government is going to compensate the airlines for the lost revenue, I think airlines should be able to sell all seats on the aircraft as long as they are transparent to consumers about their policies.
To be honest, I’d say to go ahead with all these middle seats bookings. Come on people, you criticize airlines for not maintaining social distancing, but y’all just go in herds to restaurants, clubs, parks and act as if nothing has happened. Where’s your social distancing measures huh?
Also, even if we block middle seats, nothing’s really gonna happen. CDC recommends that we maintain 6 feet and even if we have the whole row...
To be honest, I’d say to go ahead with all these middle seats bookings. Come on people, you criticize airlines for not maintaining social distancing, but y’all just go in herds to restaurants, clubs, parks and act as if nothing has happened. Where’s your social distancing measures huh?
Also, even if we block middle seats, nothing’s really gonna happen. CDC recommends that we maintain 6 feet and even if we have the whole row to ourselves, there’ll be passengers to your front and back. And if you are following those 6-feet- measures, you’d wanna have a whole 3 rows to yourself, and in that case, you’d be able to fill up a 777 with only 35-40 passengers, which isn’t economically viable and environmentally feasible.
@Tiffany
You're right, expecting leadership from the "leader of the free world" is a tall ask at the moment...
It's really simple: If the government can legislate other businesses, like bars, restaurants, salons etc., then why are airlines magically excluded?
As to non-sense like HEPA filters being enough, are restaurants allowed to seat strangers shoulder to shoulder as long as they install HEPA filters and clean to a better standard than airplanes (which is a pretty low bar)? I can tell you a LOT of restaurant owners (and other businesses) would be totally OK...
It's really simple: If the government can legislate other businesses, like bars, restaurants, salons etc., then why are airlines magically excluded?
As to non-sense like HEPA filters being enough, are restaurants allowed to seat strangers shoulder to shoulder as long as they install HEPA filters and clean to a better standard than airplanes (which is a pretty low bar)? I can tell you a LOT of restaurant owners (and other businesses) would be totally OK with that if it means they can open in-room dining at full capacity.
As to what the consumer is "prepared to do". Air travel is supposed to be for essential purposes only right now, yet some take it for no reason other than to spite others for political reasons (you can see people in the comments here doing that). The entire mess the US is in right now is because people were allowed to do whatever they want, even if it runs against public safety, so how about using public policy and capitalism (aka increased fare prices) to steer consumers into doing the right thing?
@ David -- Part of that is a jurisdiction challenge ("the government" in the examples of other businesses you gave is comprised of 2,684 state, local, and tribal public-health departments, all of which are implementing policies for their district).
The FAA, by itself, does not have clear authority to implement public health regulations. The Department of Transportation may, or at least could issue something through the office of the Secretary, which even if challenged in...
@ David -- Part of that is a jurisdiction challenge ("the government" in the examples of other businesses you gave is comprised of 2,684 state, local, and tribal public-health departments, all of which are implementing policies for their district).
The FAA, by itself, does not have clear authority to implement public health regulations. The Department of Transportation may, or at least could issue something through the office of the Secretary, which even if challenged in court would potentially send a strong message in the interim. But marshaling the Executive Branch in that way would require a push from the White House, which seems unlikely to happen.
All these airlines usually state their primary concern is safety. If that is really true, I'd think all of them would block middle seats. Personally I wouldn't fly right now but if I had to, I'd only fly nonstop flight on Delta or any of the airlines blocking middle seats. That's my comfort level.
I do commend UA/AA and the other airlines for at least stating upfront that they won't block middle seats so passengers are aware of what they're getting.
If you don’t like the product, don’t buy it.
You will never please everyone. Our airline has a policy of not seating any adult directly next to any other adult (exclusions for children, medical or security related cases) but we still get complaints from people who think this is not enough. On the extreme end, some activists believe that any flights during a pandemic is tantamount to "participation in genocide" and are threatening to take us to the "World Court" (sic). And on the...
You will never please everyone. Our airline has a policy of not seating any adult directly next to any other adult (exclusions for children, medical or security related cases) but we still get complaints from people who think this is not enough. On the extreme end, some activists believe that any flights during a pandemic is tantamount to "participation in genocide" and are threatening to take us to the "World Court" (sic). And on the other extreme, there were some people who initially pushed back against masks and other protocols introduced, but thankfully that group seem to have largely decided to comply.
Apparently social distancing only matters in the restaurant industry.
I don't think the airlines should be required to block middle seats as that is really just an illusion of social distancing. You are still 18 inches away from the person next to you. Much more effective to lawfully require everyone to wear masks and if you can't/won't you cannot fly. If you violate the policy there could be statutory financial consequences (fines), and the TSA/federal government already has mechanisms in place in terms of no-fly lists.
I’ve flown twice since COVID and my take on it is is, besides sanitation, I don’t expect the airline to actually have procedures in place. Now, it’s in their best interest to please the customer and make us feel safe, and I was and am grateful there are policies that airlines are putting in place. Hence, I vote with my wallet and went with Southwest both on price as well as feeling comfortable with their...
I’ve flown twice since COVID and my take on it is is, besides sanitation, I don’t expect the airline to actually have procedures in place. Now, it’s in their best interest to please the customer and make us feel safe, and I was and am grateful there are policies that airlines are putting in place. Hence, I vote with my wallet and went with Southwest both on price as well as feeling comfortable with their boarding process (in April it was one by one, flight had 16 people on it. Last week it was 10 at a time, with the flight about 25% full). I will not be flying American or United, not just because of their COVID policies but also because time and time again they have shown they don’t value consumer loyalty.
Haven't flown lately but wondering if the seats in the waiting area blocked so that every other one is empty? Whats the point in blocking the middle seat if everyone is sitting next to each other with masks on waiting to board?
This is a public health issue. Governments have no problem requiring that restaurants provide sufficient space between tables. Space is limited in restaurants too.
The government has long set minimum safety standards for airlines -- we don't just let the market sort out safe airlines from those airlines whose planes regularly crash. We regulate many aspects of aircraft safety for the benefit of the flying public.
When you combine these two facts together,...
This is a public health issue. Governments have no problem requiring that restaurants provide sufficient space between tables. Space is limited in restaurants too.
The government has long set minimum safety standards for airlines -- we don't just let the market sort out safe airlines from those airlines whose planes regularly crash. We regulate many aspects of aircraft safety for the benefit of the flying public.
When you combine these two facts together, it leads to the conclusion that it is perfectly natural and in fact overdue for the FAA to require that airlines keep middle seats empty and to seat passengers further apart.
https://thefederalist.com/2020/06/30/rand-paul-grills-anthony-fauci-on-reopening-schools-and-day-cares/
What do you think of this Ben
I didnt see the CDC and others ranting at protesters which were definitely not keeping social distancing, to now stick "precautions" at the airlines when there's very little proof that 20 inches of space will curb the virus rather then 6 inches is just unfair and i think at this point airlines need to do anything to survive so unless there's very strong science promoting middle seat blocking and CDC using the same language for...
I didnt see the CDC and others ranting at protesters which were definitely not keeping social distancing, to now stick "precautions" at the airlines when there's very little proof that 20 inches of space will curb the virus rather then 6 inches is just unfair and i think at this point airlines need to do anything to survive so unless there's very strong science promoting middle seat blocking and CDC using the same language for all (protest), i dont think they can force the airlines to block middle seats.
Ben why perpetuate this? All this is being done under some veil of safety and you, me and everyone else knows it’s a bunch of bulls&$). And this is coming from a liberal who’s a health care professional. Wear masks yes. Social distance when able sure. But in a plane blocking the middle seat does nothing. The person behind you could be hacking up a lung. Would you feel safe that the seat next to...
Ben why perpetuate this? All this is being done under some veil of safety and you, me and everyone else knows it’s a bunch of bulls&$). And this is coming from a liberal who’s a health care professional. Wear masks yes. Social distance when able sure. But in a plane blocking the middle seat does nothing. The person behind you could be hacking up a lung. Would you feel safe that the seat next to do is blocked. Take the needed precautions but if a person is that overly concerned with COVID and is in a high risk group don’t fly. It really is that simple.
Airlines should not be forced to forego the revenue of the middle seats. Many are on the precipice of financial ruin and we want them to block the middle seats? Why so we can then complain when they go to the gov asking for another handout.
We can not fault the airlines for trying to do what needs to be done to stay afloat (ie sell tickets)
The distancing is only partially relevant. In any contained area, having less people is obviously better. You don’t need to be a scientist to know that. They haven’t conducted any experiments and are just making the same assumptions a laymen would.
I think the government should stay out of it in this case. As long as there are no federal regulations against restaurants and gyms, there is no reason to single out airlines. I’m flying...
The distancing is only partially relevant. In any contained area, having less people is obviously better. You don’t need to be a scientist to know that. They haven’t conducted any experiments and are just making the same assumptions a laymen would.
I think the government should stay out of it in this case. As long as there are no federal regulations against restaurants and gyms, there is no reason to single out airlines. I’m flying to CUN on Friday on a full plane! Yay!
No. Let them run their businesses as they see fit.
@ Biz Guy -- I'm curious, should that apply to all businesses, like bars, clubs, etc., as well?
Or 777s.
If you want an empty seat next to you, buy a second seat.
Or, buy a first class ticket and figure out how to route exclusively on 787s, CJ-700/900s or ERJ-170/5/90s and get a single seat.