A couple of days ago I initially wrote about how a man believed to have coronavirus died on a United Airlines flight. Well, the airline and the CDC have now finally confirmed that he had coronavirus, so let’s recap what we know, and talk about the update.
In this post:
COVID-19 positive man dies on United flight
Unfortunately a passenger died on United Airlines flight 591 from Orlando to Los Angeles on Monday:
- About two hours into the flight a passenger sitting in seat 28D stopped breathing; according to other passengers, he was having a hard time breathing from the beginning of the flight
- The crew asked if there were any doctors onboard, and a few people ended up trying to help the passenger; you could apparently hear his bones cracking during chest compression, and then the man turned blue
- Reports suggest that the passenger’s wife initially admitted he was experiencing shortness of breath and a lack of taste and smell, and when talking to EMTs in New Orleans, the wife admitted the man had tested positive for coronavirus
- After the passenger was offloaded in New Orleans, his seat was wiped down, and the plane continued to Los Angeles
Below are some Tweets from passengers who were on the flight (warning: graphic descriptions).
United & CDC confirm the man had coronavirus
As noted by View from the Wing, United Airlines has now confirmed that it was contacted by the CDC, and informed that the man did have coronavirus:
Our flight diverted to New Orleans due to a medical emergency and paramedics transported the passenger to a local hospital where the individual was pronounced deceased. We have been in touch with his family and have extended our sincerest condolences to them for their loss.
At the time of the diversion, we were informed he had suffered a cardiac arrest, so passengers were given the option to take a later flight or continue on with their travel plans. Now that the CDC has contacted us directly, we are sharing requested information with the agency so they can work with local health officials to conduct outreach to any customer the CDC believes may be at risk for possible exposure or infection.
Here’s a reader’s complaint letter to United
A reader reached out to ask me to bring attention to the situation that happened on this United flight. His family of six was on this flight, and he sent a complaint letter to United on Tuesday, seeking $20,000 per passenger (or $120,000 for his party) in compensation.
Well, he heard back from United on Wednesday:
- United said he won’t be compensated because the CDC hadn’t yet called United to report the man was a confirmed coronavirus patient
- When he asked if the airline spoke to family members, they allegedly said that they wouldn’t because “it’s rude”
- When he asked if they contacted the hospital, they said they hadn’t “due to HIPAA”
Here’s his complaint letter to United, for anyone who would like to read it:
Last night, myself, my wife and 4 of our children flew back from MCO to LAX. About two hours into the flight a passenger sitting at 28D had stopped from breathing and the crew called for a medical personal onboard to help. The crew and a few volunteers came to help and dragged the non breathing man to the floor to perform CPR and necessary medical care. For the next 45 minutes they try their best to give life to the man . My family and I were seated at row 25 ABC and 27 ABC, we tried hard to distract the eyes of our kids from seeing this situation, but it was impossible, my children were terrified seeing a medical treatment on a man no longer alive right in front of their eyes. I do not wish this on any child in the world to go through the trauma which they experienced last night.
It took 45 min for the plane to arrive at MSY for the paramedic to come to the plane and remove the man. Once the paramedics arrived, the crew and the volunteers reported the condition of the passenger stating that he had no pulse for the last 38 min and added that he has Covid since his family member traveling with him stated that the man had lost his sense of smell and taste for the last four days.
While the crew’s care and dedication for the passenger was done efficiently, some can strongly argue that United had failed to prevent a known Covid patient from boarding the plane. But undoubtedly the crew definitely failed from preventing the trauma for the very young children sitting right next to the man. Perhaps moving the man to the front or back of the plane would have helped avoiding the kid’s trauma? but this is not the point of my letter.
The point of my letter is to expose United systematically misleading their travelers. United is promising to take the extra step (CleanPlus) to ensure the safety of the travelers from Covid19. As soon as the (dead?) passenger was dragged out of the plane, I was expecting that we would all come off the plane and a special crew would get on with special equipment to disinfect the plane. After all, United proudly demonstrate on their website an antimicrobial technology robot and Ultraviolet C (UVC) lighting which can professionally disinfect the plane. But NO! Instead, a lady wearing white t-shirt (not sure if she is a staff member since there was no uniform or badge) came with a bunch of wipes and wiped the passenger seat and that was all!!
Passengers have been promised that United planes are professionally disinfected even without a confirmed Covid Passenger. But now, in front of my eyes, when a confirmed Covid patient was treated for 45min all over the floor and has been dragged while his hand touching every single seat on his left side, the plane is being cleaned by few wipes? United promises an ultra safe environment using “state-of-the-art” equipment, and in reality treated the infected plane worse than a 3rd world country airliner.
We arrived home after a long Journey. But since we felt that the plane was completely infested with Covid19, myself, my wife and our 4 children will have to quarantine for 14 days. Since our kids are still in school (private school) they will have to miss now 14 days of education and interactions with their friends and family simply because United had failed to clean their plane.
This situation placed my entire family in a trauma but most importantly United had placed my family in danger. We’re very worried that we caught the virus from the infected plane and I’m deeply concerned about my family’s physical and mental health status. the damages already took place and unfortunately not reversible. However I believe that each of us are entitled to serious compensation for the situation which United placed upon us, and I’m giving a chance for United to take responsibility and act quickly to solve this issue directly with us. I feel that $20K payout per family member can minimize the trauma and health risk which was imposed on us. And I’m sure that United will do the right thing. However, if I feel that my concerns were not addressed properly, I will first take the story to the social media and I’m sure that this story will be trending way more than the latest story of United removing the family of the 2 year old who refused to wear a mask. And lastly I will not hesitate to take it further to a lawsuit. But again, I’m trying to be fair here and asking United to address my case with responsibility and care.
My take on this situation
I have a few thoughts based on hearing about this situation, and reading the letter. I’m not even going to address the compensation request, though you guys are welcome to share your thoughts in the comments section as to whether or not the reader is being reasonable.
In no particular order:
Why would this passenger fly?!?
We’ve heard some stories of passengers with coronavirus flying (or trying to fly), though typically it’s people with mild or no symptoms. One has to wonder what would motivate someone who is having serious breathing issues and who is on the brink of dying to get on a five hour transcon flight.
Even not accounting for the safety of others (which clearly wasn’t a consideration), why would someone want to do this to themselves? Did he not think his situation was as serious as it was, or…?
My thoughts are with… everyone
Despite the recklessness of the man choosing to get on a plane after testing positive, my thoughts are still with his family, as losing loved ones isn’t easy.
Beyond that, I also feel bad for the passengers who had to witness this. It’s not easy to witness anyone dying, and I can only imagine how hard it was (in particular for kids) to see all of this go down, especially given the confined spaces on planes.
United probably couldn’t have stopped this man from flying
Personally I don’t think United has any responsibility for this man flying as such:
- During check-in passengers have to self-report on whether they have any coronavirus symptoms
- That’s the extent of it, and there’s really not much else airlines can do, especially for domestic flights
So I don’t think United could have done much to prevent this passenger from flying, unfortunately (and perhaps that gets at a failure in the system). Others report seeing this man had trouble breathing even early on, though I don’t see any reports of the crew having been made aware of this.
United could have responded to this situation much better
While I don’t think United is responsible for this guy flying, I do think the airline is responsible for how this was handled. If the passenger’s wife did in fact confirm that the man had tested positive for coronavirus, it’s outrageous and grossly irresponsible that the airline simply wiped down his seat after he was taken off, and kept flying.
At an absolute minimum the airline should have done a deep cleaning of the plane. Now, hopefully no one else was infected due to mask compliance generally being good on planes, but…
I totally get how the situation happened — the flight diverted, this is an outstation for United, and chances are that higher-ups weren’t involved. But that doesn’t make it any more acceptable, given how serious this situation was. Airlines should have plans in place for this kind of stuff, and surely this wasn’t the plan.
Bottom line
A man who had apparently tested positive for coronavirus died on a United Airlines flight on Monday, causing a diversion to New Orleans. Since the incident happened, it has now been confirmed by both United and the CDC that this man had coronavirus.
It’s sad that someone died, though it’s also sad that he was so reckless to fly with coronavirus, and endanger others.
I don’t ultimately think the airline could have done much to prevent the man from flying (it’s just the reality of how coronavirus is handled in the US), though I do think United’s response was completely unacceptable. At a minimum the airline should have deep cleaned the plane, rather than just wiping down his seat and continuing the flight.
What’s your take on this situation, and United’s responsibility?
This guy who is seeking compensation is looking to cash in during pandemic whenever one should work together, and feel for each other. This guy is a real fake, looking for money. This guy should get nothing zippo for his claims.
Anyone wiling to take their family on vacation, especially to a theme park, during a pandemic, AND is upset because their kids will miss 14 days of "interactions with friends and family" at their in-person private school when no one should be physically interacting with people they don't live with with, should get exactly squat in compensation. Plague rat.
Shame on the passenger seeking compensation! The airline staff treated that man right on the spot instead of moving him because they were concerned about his life more than sheltering everyone from seeing the situation. If I was having a medical emergency I would prefer they prioritize my life as well!
I’m sure if the passenger’s children attend private school there will be an option for them to attend remotely. Unbelievable how greedy people...
Shame on the passenger seeking compensation! The airline staff treated that man right on the spot instead of moving him because they were concerned about his life more than sheltering everyone from seeing the situation. If I was having a medical emergency I would prefer they prioritize my life as well!
I’m sure if the passenger’s children attend private school there will be an option for them to attend remotely. Unbelievable how greedy people can be. It’s a very sad situation. A man lost his life while his family watched helplessly.
The letter writer complains that his children will lose14 days of their education because of quarantining. As a responder above noted, the writer does not take weekends into account. But how many days of school did the writer's children lose by their taking a Florida vacation during the school year?
I want to feel sympathy for the family, however their selfish act put an entire plane at risk and could be the cause of a super spreader event. This man's death shows how serious this pandemic is. At a minimum the wife is an accomplice as she knew he had COVID and chose to lie and travel. I think the airline should take civil and criminal actions against her and the others who knew his...
I want to feel sympathy for the family, however their selfish act put an entire plane at risk and could be the cause of a super spreader event. This man's death shows how serious this pandemic is. At a minimum the wife is an accomplice as she knew he had COVID and chose to lie and travel. I think the airline should take civil and criminal actions against her and the others who knew his status and chose to say they weren't exposed. This is reckless endangerment at the very least. I am just sick of selfish people!
As a retired airline Captain, I thought I'd mention an important consideration when flying with ANY breathing problem... Most folks don't fully realize the effects of cabin pressurization in an aircraft at high altitude. If your body is acclimated to lower altitude, flying is like going straight to Aspen CO, in terms of available oxygen. Airliner cabin pressure slowly climbs from local altitude (essentially sea level in Orlando) to 8000 ft. cabin altitude, until decent...
As a retired airline Captain, I thought I'd mention an important consideration when flying with ANY breathing problem... Most folks don't fully realize the effects of cabin pressurization in an aircraft at high altitude. If your body is acclimated to lower altitude, flying is like going straight to Aspen CO, in terms of available oxygen. Airliner cabin pressure slowly climbs from local altitude (essentially sea level in Orlando) to 8000 ft. cabin altitude, until decent to land. 8000 ft. altitude is considered "high altitude."
If you look at oxygen partial pressurization charts, they show that you are travelling in an environment with only around 75% the amount of oxygen you are used to. That's right, it's just like taking away 25% of the oxygen you normally get on the ground at sea level. Even if you are in perfect health, you are already mildly hypoxic. So, if your breathing, and subsequent oxygen intake, are already impaired for any reason, you are going to get very hypoxic. Severe hypoxia pretty much results in falling asleep and then death without supplemental oxygen. The only way to save this guy would have been supplemental pressurized oxygen, which is not available on an airliner, except to the two occupants of the pilots' seats with a special mask and the emergency switch selected (intended only for use during rapid decompression in order to get the aircraft ack below 14000 ft. safely.)
Now, as an also retired attorney, my opinion is the letter writer is full of s*** and will get his a$$ handed to him if he sues the airline and they are willing to fight it. He's a terrible human being. I feel sorry for his children having endured this, but it doesn't seem much worse to me than all of the tens of thousands of other children who are being impacted by COVID. Of course, they will also have to grow up with this ethically challenged turd as a father....
The man's wife should be arrested NOW and tried for felonies. Any other family member who knew he had COVID also should be arrested and tried for aiding and abetting if nothing else.
Regarding your comment that “there’s really not much else airlines can do, especially for domestic flights
So I don’t think United could have done much to prevent this passenger from flying”, many restaurants and stores take temperature checks with an infrared scanner before allowing people in. The airlines could easily do this with every single passenger. This would be a small and very easy step which would would at least prevent and screen people...
Regarding your comment that “there’s really not much else airlines can do, especially for domestic flights
So I don’t think United could have done much to prevent this passenger from flying”, many restaurants and stores take temperature checks with an infrared scanner before allowing people in. The airlines could easily do this with every single passenger. This would be a small and very easy step which would would at least prevent and screen people from boarding that are presently experiencing symptoms but not reporting them. Whether they choose to do that I leave to them, but to say there’s nothing they can do is just not true.
Reinforces that when it comes to your personal health and safety, you cannot trust anyone you don' t know. You cannot leave your life to the kindness of stringers. I feel bad for anyone who passes from Covid, but to knowingly get on a plane with a positive test is a horrendous disregard for the safety of others. Its meets the common law definition of second degree murder in fact--acting with an wanton and wilful...
Reinforces that when it comes to your personal health and safety, you cannot trust anyone you don' t know. You cannot leave your life to the kindness of stringers. I feel bad for anyone who passes from Covid, but to knowingly get on a plane with a positive test is a horrendous disregard for the safety of others. Its meets the common law definition of second degree murder in fact--acting with an wanton and wilful disregard of others evidencing a malignant and abandoned heart. Sort of like shooting at a passing train, not knowing who specifically you may kill but engaging in behavior so utterly reckless that creates a high probably of killing an innocent person.
No flying for me at my age until there is a requirement that everyone have a vaccine first on the flight, or a negative test if that is possible to do. Not sure what the science says but it seems one or both should be considered. Too many people do stupid things like this guy flying iwth a positive test.
What a world.
You are damned if you do and damned if you don't:
If UA had gotten everyone off the plane and taken several hours for a deep cleaning people would be complaining about being delayed. Since they didn't people are complaining. Did wiping down of the seat and area help - yes, but possibly more could have been done in this instance. Do people really understand about the methods of transmittal. If I were in...
You are damned if you do and damned if you don't:
If UA had gotten everyone off the plane and taken several hours for a deep cleaning people would be complaining about being delayed. Since they didn't people are complaining. Did wiping down of the seat and area help - yes, but possibly more could have been done in this instance. Do people really understand about the methods of transmittal. If I were in the next seat, I would have been sure to have used hand cleaner and kept my mask on, hands away from mouth, eyes and nose until I could have gotten to a good wash station. Again, if you are traveling be aware.
Should this passenger have been flying? No - as I did not see anywhere where he was traveling to seek medical care, visit a relative that was in hospice or some "very" necessary travel.
Ambulance chasers (certain attorneys) are always there to take a case for a percentage of the claim. People do not assume any risk for themselves anymore (well a lot don't). When I travel on vacation I acknowledge that my plans may be changed due to no fault of my own. Is someone always financially responsible - NO.
Are we living in a time of trial causing us to re-examine our priorities. We are, but not everyone is doing this. Computer games are set to "resurrect" players - in real life you seldom get several chances, "chose wisely " (Indiana Jones "last Crusade").
All health-care provider agencies have been pleading with the public to avoid unnecessary travel and parties and yet many people are determined to disregard safety instructions. Unfortunately, the White House is leading in arranging parties where very few people wear masks and do not pay any attention to social distancing. Life is more precious than parties and vacation trips. Although it does not provide surety of infectious-free situation, airlines require some documentation of COVID testing...
All health-care provider agencies have been pleading with the public to avoid unnecessary travel and parties and yet many people are determined to disregard safety instructions. Unfortunately, the White House is leading in arranging parties where very few people wear masks and do not pay any attention to social distancing. Life is more precious than parties and vacation trips. Although it does not provide surety of infectious-free situation, airlines require some documentation of COVID testing before allowing passengers to board.
With my luck , I'd be the next passenger to sit in his Corona ridden seat... that's it!! CoVid testing for every man woman and child that, "Flies the "Friendly Skies"United!!...brilliant!
First of all, I went and got myself tested before flying to make sure I was not infected. I did that on my own. I would have thought that would have been a requirement. Again flying home I will have myself tested and I will quarantine or 14 days believing that is the proper thing to do.
Also, looks to me like the kids of the dad who is trying to collect money have already...
First of all, I went and got myself tested before flying to make sure I was not infected. I did that on my own. I would have thought that would have been a requirement. Again flying home I will have myself tested and I will quarantine or 14 days believing that is the proper thing to do.
Also, looks to me like the kids of the dad who is trying to collect money have already missed some school time ........... why were they on that plane? Hmmmmm. Awfully long Thanksgiving break if you ask me. Again if you were away and you are flying, shouldn't you automatically quarantine yourself?
So people report fellow passengers for texting in Arabic, but not someone with a breathing problem during the coronavirus pandemic? How do you define security risk?
@David2: quoting Margaret Thatcher on Socialism is the equivalent of quoting Trump on Covid cures.
Biographer John Campbell reports that in July 1978 when asked by a Labour MP in Commons what she meant by socialism "she was at a loss to reply.”
@Ray - that is exactly what socialism is; taking what others have. As the great Margaret Thatcher said, "Socialism is fun until you run out of other people's money."
@D3kingg: for Socialism to work it requires a feeling of “us/we” and Americans only understand me/I. You are right. Will never work. Not because of your reason. Socialism isn’t taking what others have.
Well we know that children are more immune to COVID than others so knock off compensation for the four children to only 10K. So the 120k compensation request is already down to 80k.
I’m dying to know who the reader is that sent this letter to United. I just hope it’s not who I think it is.
Sorry to hear someone died but that is selfish of someone to knowingly fly with Covid....
Well we know that children are more immune to COVID than others so knock off compensation for the four children to only 10K. So the 120k compensation request is already down to 80k.
I’m dying to know who the reader is that sent this letter to United. I just hope it’s not who I think it is.
Sorry to hear someone died but that is selfish of someone to knowingly fly with Covid. Just goes to show socialism would never work in the US. We clearly should not be treated as equals. Some simply don’t deserve having things handed to them just because it isn’t fair someone else got further ahead in life than they did.
I work at the airline as a crew member. First if anyone had notified the crew prior to the flight about any breathing issues I assure you this would have been addressed. Most likely by the passenger being removed by the Captain. Second, the crew did an emergency divert by the book to the closest station having adequate medical care. Third, the passenger blatantly lied on his check-in. If anyone is responsible for this it...
I work at the airline as a crew member. First if anyone had notified the crew prior to the flight about any breathing issues I assure you this would have been addressed. Most likely by the passenger being removed by the Captain. Second, the crew did an emergency divert by the book to the closest station having adequate medical care. Third, the passenger blatantly lied on his check-in. If anyone is responsible for this it is the wife and maybe the passengers should take up a possible legal matter with her! Fourth the airplanes with the massive airflow and hepa filters is the safest place you can be with this situation. How do I know? We’ve had multiple crew members who got covid and even got sick during a long international flight and nobody got covid working with them in a small cockpit without masks (we don’t wear them in flight hampers critical communication). It’s refreshing to see the Hawaii couple facing jail time after they lied about being covid positive!
Let's focus on the information garnered through various news articles and the compensation letter above:
1. The letter writer states in his comments above that he and his family traveled to MCO for a family matter and not a vacation. Wouldn't it have been prudent for either you are your wife to attend to the family matter and the other parent stay home with your four children to protect them from non-essential travel?
...
Let's focus on the information garnered through various news articles and the compensation letter above:
1. The letter writer states in his comments above that he and his family traveled to MCO for a family matter and not a vacation. Wouldn't it have been prudent for either you are your wife to attend to the family matter and the other parent stay home with your four children to protect them from non-essential travel?
2. Your children most probably would only miss four days of school, not fourteen. Most schools last day before the holiday break was Friday the 18th. You were on a plane on Monday the 14th, so they had already missed Monday and Friday would have been the last day. That leaves us with a total of four days missed.
3. This tragic medical emergency (cardiac arrest) could have occurred on any flight without the COVID overlay, so neither COVID nor United was responsible for your children witnessing the brave attempt to resuscitate the passenger.
4. As far as your family being exposed....that happens every time you leave your home. The decision by United to not disinfect/clean or change planes in MSY would have been moot as the ill passenger had already exposed the passengers, particularly those of the flight crew and passenger/medical responders.
5. LA County Health Department states very clearly that non-essential travelers should self quarantine for 14 days after returning home, so this is an action you chose when traveling with your family. Unless of course you intended to ignore that.
6. Also, you lament that your children will miss the "interaction" with friends. I'm not sure the difference you draw in them interacting with friends and being on a flight full of strangers. Exposure is exposure.
Where my issue comes in is the uneven messaging of United. One of the passengers who was an EMT and assisted the ill passenger has said that the wife told him that they were flying home to get a test as he has had symptoms of COVID. If the wife told the EMT/passenger that her husband had been experiencing COVID symptoms then this information should have been relayed to the flight crew. It probably would not have have changed the outcome as the safest measure may have been to keep all passengers contained on the aircraft and get you back to LAX, but United shouldn't provide messaging which makes them sound like they were in the dark as to the possible COVID contamination.
United also states that passengers were given a choice to disembark from the aircraft and take another flight, however, several passengers have shared in separate news articles that they were never given the choice and that the flight captain simply stated that if everyone was all right they were going to continue on to LAX.
I understand that people often exaggerate experiences (such as your children missing fourteen days of school) so these passengers could be giving statements which are not completely accurate. But if United did not make the offer then they should not be issuing statements to the press that this offer was in fact given.
Upon landing the flight attendants were told to quarantine for fourteen days, so there was enough information at this point to quarantine the crew. Passengers should have been advised at this point.
This man and his wife were self-serving to falsify the passenger questionnaire in stating he had no COVID symptoms and boarding the flight. Unfortunately, the decision resulted in a sad death and possible infection of the passengers and crew. While your letter was misguided I truly hope that you and your family, as well as ALL the passengers and flight crew of flight #591 will remain healthy.
Like others have mentioned in this post... Apparently 20,000 dollars is a cure to this experience. Please give me a break. And for this person doing blackmailing about social media, news and suing and then this family has to be inconvenienced by doing a 14 day quarantine. I live in LA and anyone arriving into LAX should quarantine for 14 days anyway so it sounds like this family should do this anyway. Maybe they should...
Like others have mentioned in this post... Apparently 20,000 dollars is a cure to this experience. Please give me a break. And for this person doing blackmailing about social media, news and suing and then this family has to be inconvenienced by doing a 14 day quarantine. I live in LA and anyone arriving into LAX should quarantine for 14 days anyway so it sounds like this family should do this anyway. Maybe they should not have gone to Orlando because it sounds like they just want a paid family vacation during a pandemic.
While these people are selfish for getting on a plane while they suspected (or confirmed) they had covid, so is this jerk asking for money.
1.) Why is your family on a plane in the middle of a pandemic!? There is more than just assumed risk at this point. If you want to travel and put others at risk, you also put yourself at risk.
2.) Sorry your kids could see a man...
While these people are selfish for getting on a plane while they suspected (or confirmed) they had covid, so is this jerk asking for money.
1.) Why is your family on a plane in the middle of a pandemic!? There is more than just assumed risk at this point. If you want to travel and put others at risk, you also put yourself at risk.
2.) Sorry your kids could see a man die...this is just a much part of life as seeing someone be born. Yes death is scary but no one in this world can protect your kids from it.
3.) BECAUSE they didnt clean enough you have to quarantine!?!? No sir, they cleaned AFTER you got off the flight, you were already exposed. No amount of cleaning would do anything to change that you were exposed already. He clearly doesnt understand how any of this works.
4.) But really....he wants money because someone died on a flight he was on at no fault of anyone besides the dead guy...yet he is suing the airline. This happens outside of pandemics too...does everyone deserve 20k when they see someone die? Our nurses and doctors would be rolling in it this year!
Both men needed to keep their stupid, selfish asses at home.
@Bernard Szeto
I think you are probably on the right track.
It would certainly seem bizarre to start a trip once diagnosed with Covid, but less inexplicable to try to get home.
As he was well enough to get onto the 'plane, it may well be the case that at ground level he was not ill enough to need hospital admission.
They may well have been facing ?two weeks in a...
@Bernard Szeto
I think you are probably on the right track.
It would certainly seem bizarre to start a trip once diagnosed with Covid, but less inexplicable to try to get home.
As he was well enough to get onto the 'plane, it may well be the case that at ground level he was not ill enough to need hospital admission.
They may well have been facing ?two weeks in a hotel plus the cost of replacement flights.
(And how easy is it to get a hotel to accept one if one has a positive Covid diagnosis?)
So they tried to get home first.
If it had been a day's drive I could see that being a solution, but that wasn't feasible here.
The risks of getting stranded in such a way are why we have not travelled more than two hours drive from home since March, and will not until we have been vaccinated.
I certainly do blame United. Why one earth are they not requiring a negative covid test before allowing passengers to board? Most international airlines require this. It simply doesn't make sense, that a test is not a requirement.
The guy suing is ridiculous. While there is no doubt this is a traumatic experience, especially for kids, it could have happened to anyone with or without covid. As for his kids missing school... they missed school to go on your vacation?! Were you so upset then? Also regardless of this man on the plane the family should be quarantining for two weeks after coming back from out of state (not really sure why this...
The guy suing is ridiculous. While there is no doubt this is a traumatic experience, especially for kids, it could have happened to anyone with or without covid. As for his kids missing school... they missed school to go on your vacation?! Were you so upset then? Also regardless of this man on the plane the family should be quarantining for two weeks after coming back from out of state (not really sure why this is such a shock to him). There is also a high probability that there were other people during his trip and on the plane that him and his family had been exposed to. The only way to play it safe is to not travel.
While I am sympathetic to the man who died idk why he would travel knowing he was positive. It also puts into perspective how people do not care about others. Again why I personally am choosing not to travel during this time.
I am pretty postivie if anyone should be suing it should be the workers who have no choice to fly with these people who could care less about everyone else’s safety.
First, anyone positive for ANY serious communicable disease should not fly. OK, hope I don't get banned for saying this, but why don't we wait to see what the Coroner's full report says? Then, we also have to decide where the boundary between privacy (HIPPA) and Public Health rests. Should all positive cases for communicable diseases be placed on a "no fly" list with the TSA?
The demand letter is laughable, but the situation certainly isn’t. I have no doubt the ground crew didn’t intend to cause harm, but United has an obligation (particularly when they heavily market the safety of flying THEM during COVID) to train its employees to handle these situations properly (and whatever you want to call this, it wasn’t proper).
While I think trying to prove emotional distress when you flew with young kids to Orlando...
The demand letter is laughable, but the situation certainly isn’t. I have no doubt the ground crew didn’t intend to cause harm, but United has an obligation (particularly when they heavily market the safety of flying THEM during COVID) to train its employees to handle these situations properly (and whatever you want to call this, it wasn’t proper).
While I think trying to prove emotional distress when you flew with young kids to Orlando (probably to go to theme parks) will be very difficult, California law provides for civil penalties and other relief for false or misleading marketing absent any actual money damages. Skimming United’s marketing statements related to cleanings and the safety of flying them during COVID, I think there’s plenty of statements that seem misleading given what happened here.
It’ll be interesting to see whether anyone else on the flight contracts COVID. Airline industry groups have pushed the narrative that flying is safe because of air filtration. I’m at least a little skeptical, especially since there’s almost no filtration or circulation when on the ground, and am curious to see if this serves as a useful data point.
I'm sorry for the travelers death, however he risked getting on the flight and has possibly infected others.
Also, United only wiped the seat down and continued on with the flight; how egregious!
I have zero problem with the father suing United. WTF is wrong with the Covid positive douchenozzle getting on the plane and exposing everyone else?!!! Americans suck and should all be sued for being the pricks that they are!
To the man requesting money for “trauma,” don’t you have an ethical duty to protect your children? Why did you not move to the back or front of the plane with your children? Why did you take your family on vacation when CDC recommends NO TRAVEL during the pandemic? You come from LA that has over 500,000 cases of Covid, the reach for free money is evident. The man is a bullshitter, looking for a...
To the man requesting money for “trauma,” don’t you have an ethical duty to protect your children? Why did you not move to the back or front of the plane with your children? Why did you take your family on vacation when CDC recommends NO TRAVEL during the pandemic? You come from LA that has over 500,000 cases of Covid, the reach for free money is evident. The man is a bullshitter, looking for a handout claiming “trauma.” Sounds like an entitled narcissist looking for an opportunity to manipulate. As a parent, you have a responsibility to protect your children. You could’ve moved seats/locations, filed a complaint in MSY about the lack of cleaning, or if you really felt that unsafe, why did you re-board the plane? Pretty sure the family would have had to quarantine for 2 weeks since they traveled to a different state to vacation at a theme park... hello! Dumbass.
These people knew and authorities knew beforehand and somehow they still flew (and got arrested). https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/12/03/hawaii-couple-coronavirus-traveled-plane/
@Tim: so basically you are soaking the fools that pay you and yours expenses if you can do your job effectively remotely. What a tool. Thinking the airlines go broke when you don’t fly. So American.
I am not a medical doctor but I am aware that there are many illness may causes breathing problems. That’s being said, I forgot to express earlier that my deepest condolences to the family of the deceased passenger. We don’t know the exact circumstance why he was flying while he wasn’t feeling well but regardless it must be very hard for his family and loved ones especially the situation related to his death is in public eyes and openly scrutinized by strangers.
This man was seen at least twice: by the TSA agent in security and the United gate agent. He may or may not have been seen by the United ticket agent.
Surely, a person experiencing severe breathing problems (as noted by some of the passengers boarding and passing the man) during a pandemic with severe breathing problems as a symptom should have been pulled aside by TSA or the United agent and, at the...
This man was seen at least twice: by the TSA agent in security and the United gate agent. He may or may not have been seen by the United ticket agent.
Surely, a person experiencing severe breathing problems (as noted by some of the passengers boarding and passing the man) during a pandemic with severe breathing problems as a symptom should have been pulled aside by TSA or the United agent and, at the very least, questioned if not denied boarding.
United *is* at fault.
Typical example of our Sue Happy cultures... like others have said, how airlines could have responsible for passengers who claims not having Covid19, it’s passengers’ self answered disclaimer/ waiver and so many with asymptomatic cases anyway. I’m not sure WHY these family who asking $20k per person compensations from United were flying in the first place, but if you chose to go on vacation, shopping, getting food at restaurants or pretty much any activities involving...
Typical example of our Sue Happy cultures... like others have said, how airlines could have responsible for passengers who claims not having Covid19, it’s passengers’ self answered disclaimer/ waiver and so many with asymptomatic cases anyway. I’m not sure WHY these family who asking $20k per person compensations from United were flying in the first place, but if you chose to go on vacation, shopping, getting food at restaurants or pretty much any activities involving any contact with other people out there, I feel it is more less a fair game being possibilities exposed to Covid19 or flu, common cold or even Hap A (and please let me know if there are any activities which can be accomplished without any interaction or involvement of other human being...). I’ve flown United several times in last 2 months, and at some times I’ve thought their mask policy was very strictly enforced by some flight attendants. I am very skeptical of mask wearing can prevent us from catching Covid19 especially while most of passengers were sitting at their seats quietly and it is far from the situation of flying droplets, but I look this as it’s their house (their plane), they’ve set the rules, I’ve agreed to their rules for current situations, and after all, I chose to take risks of exposure by flying. I don’t think United have done anything wrong, I am just so tired of people always feel entitled for something and never look at their own actions. This goes to the Colorado family flying with their 2 year old one, too. If you know your kid would have issue wearing a mask, and you signed the waiver and acknowledge United policy when you book the flight and when you checking in 24 hrs prior again, why they are so suddenly shocked being the rules are enforced and also asked for being placed on different United flight in first class.... it’s all about compensation $$$$.... UGH!
@ Tim Dunn. You can absolutely sue someone’s estate. Happens all the time.
Irresponsible action from the man flying knowingly that he was sick. Digusting actions
“Now, hopefully no one else was infected due to mask compliance generally being good on planes...”
Yikes, that’s not how masks work against an air-borne virus...
Quite simply, this is what happens when "You do you" becomes mantra. Certainly there are a lot of emotionally-charged points here to which we could respond with our collective outrage.
However, I think many people should seriously consider re-calibrating their expectations to align better with reality. Please understand:
1. People will continue to put their self-interests ahead of yours.
2. If you travel during a raging pandemic, you will increase your risk of...
Quite simply, this is what happens when "You do you" becomes mantra. Certainly there are a lot of emotionally-charged points here to which we could respond with our collective outrage.
However, I think many people should seriously consider re-calibrating their expectations to align better with reality. Please understand:
1. People will continue to put their self-interests ahead of yours.
2. If you travel during a raging pandemic, you will increase your risk of contracting the illness.
Go ahead now. You do you.
I don't see that the passenger who wrote the letter has any legal recourse. He and his family got on a plane to fly during a pandemic, too bad.
But the first responders might. They boarded a plane but were called by United to provide services to another passenger who most certainly infected them with COVID. California excludes essential healthcare workers from the travel quarantine when traveling for work. Too bad that it's going to...
I don't see that the passenger who wrote the letter has any legal recourse. He and his family got on a plane to fly during a pandemic, too bad.
But the first responders might. They boarded a plane but were called by United to provide services to another passenger who most certainly infected them with COVID. California excludes essential healthcare workers from the travel quarantine when traveling for work. Too bad that it's going to take a lawsuit to make the airlines begin protecting people from others.
It’s pretty obvious that the majority if us agree the author of the letter is ultimately the biggest problem here. He’s almost as much at fault as the deceased passenger and his family. He chose to take those kids out of school to go to FL on vacation, I’d assume. Good deals now everywhere. Why? Because it’s not the safest time to travel needlessly. And Florida, as well as LA right now are hotbeds of...
It’s pretty obvious that the majority if us agree the author of the letter is ultimately the biggest problem here. He’s almost as much at fault as the deceased passenger and his family. He chose to take those kids out of school to go to FL on vacation, I’d assume. Good deals now everywhere. Why? Because it’s not the safest time to travel needlessly. And Florida, as well as LA right now are hotbeds of Covid. He should have never been in FL to begin. Probably the same as the sick man. Probably got sick and didn’t want to stay there due to both expense and “who doesn’t want to just be in their own bed when they’re sick?”. Really there is just no good answer to this. As a fairly recently retired flight attendant for another major carrier, I’m glad I wasn’t there to witness this or participate. No sympathy
When you check in for your flight you check a box saying “NO I DONT HAVE ANY SYMPOTMS” and “YES I WILL WEAR A MASK OVER MY NOSE AND MOUTH” so shame on the wife and the guy that passed for Knowing he had Covid and still lied during check in and continued to fly. She should be charged as a felon just like everyone else who willing exposes people. And shame on the stupid...
When you check in for your flight you check a box saying “NO I DONT HAVE ANY SYMPOTMS” and “YES I WILL WEAR A MASK OVER MY NOSE AND MOUTH” so shame on the wife and the guy that passed for Knowing he had Covid and still lied during check in and continued to fly. She should be charged as a felon just like everyone else who willing exposes people. And shame on the stupid passenger only going after money when he should be taking care of himself and his family. Money hungry and disgusting. You say it’s tragic but you’re just looking for money
Amazed at the entitlement of the guy asking for $120K because some guy DIED near him. He says he'll take it to social media? Lol, go ahead and show the whole world what a stooge you are so nobody wants to welcome you into their business or hire you ever again.
To those of you calling for a vaccine requirement to fly, it will backfire. Frequent business flyers like me are the bread & butter...
Amazed at the entitlement of the guy asking for $120K because some guy DIED near him. He says he'll take it to social media? Lol, go ahead and show the whole world what a stooge you are so nobody wants to welcome you into their business or hire you ever again.
To those of you calling for a vaccine requirement to fly, it will backfire. Frequent business flyers like me are the bread & butter of airline loyalty programs (and their staple revenue stream), but I will refuse to fly any airline that requires a vaccine. And if it becomes an industry requirement, I'll just do all my work remote and let the airlines bleed out. Requiring a negative test is one thing, and probably would have prevented this situation. Requiring someone to inject something into their body to travel is absurd and I won't do it.
Just wow. Another case of someone intentionally getting on a plane knowing that they are COVID positive. I just can’t anymore. What. Is. Wrong. With. People.
It is truly a shame that this lovely, charming father can’t be charged with extortion!
Why should anyone stop flying, even if they have covid and are spreading the virus with every breath? There are obviously no consequences for flying while you are highly infectious - this clearly case proves that.
And all the safety measures, all the promises of HEPA filters "replacing the air" every few minutes, all the futuristic cleaning robots and disinfecting crews in hazmat suits with fog guns...that's all just theater. It's just marketing nonsense for...
Why should anyone stop flying, even if they have covid and are spreading the virus with every breath? There are obviously no consequences for flying while you are highly infectious - this clearly case proves that.
And all the safety measures, all the promises of HEPA filters "replacing the air" every few minutes, all the futuristic cleaning robots and disinfecting crews in hazmat suits with fog guns...that's all just theater. It's just marketing nonsense for the suckers.
But everyone should enjoy their Christmas trips, because flying is really safe. Really.
This is why airlines will suffer unless they impose a Health passport in the future to show you are vaccinated against Covid.
Sure is interesting there wasn't as much hysteria when the state of CA dropped penalties for knowingly spreading/infecting people with HIV or knowingly donating HIV infected blood, than the level of hysteria for someone trying to get home with a virus with a extremely high survival rate.
Not saying the latter is the correct decision, but it does make you think about people's motives.
I completely agree with @Jetset above.
First off, this is a tragic event. But it seems like they flew while he was knowingly positive with COVID. I wish the self-certification had some teeth behind it, namely that the family is liable for any expenses United has due to their negligence. They should be sued to bankruptcy for knowingly putting the lives of others in danger. I get this is a harsh take but it sounds...
I completely agree with @Jetset above.
First off, this is a tragic event. But it seems like they flew while he was knowingly positive with COVID. I wish the self-certification had some teeth behind it, namely that the family is liable for any expenses United has due to their negligence. They should be sued to bankruptcy for knowingly putting the lives of others in danger. I get this is a harsh take but it sounds like the man knew he had COVID, definitely had COVID symptoms, and then lied on the self-certification so he could still fly.
@Sel, D. You are terrible, wishing someone dropped dead!! I am not defending the compensation claim - No comment for this! But my guess is that you probably don't have children or don't care about your children!!
There were several missed oppty to stop this tragic situation. As much as I’m very mindful of the family, it IS up to each person to not travel or be around others with any symptoms. Yes, we want to be with family. But just shortness of breath and flying rarely go well together, much less complications of a virus we just don’t understand.
The airlines had a duty to pull the ENTIRE plane out...
There were several missed oppty to stop this tragic situation. As much as I’m very mindful of the family, it IS up to each person to not travel or be around others with any symptoms. Yes, we want to be with family. But just shortness of breath and flying rarely go well together, much less complications of a virus we just don’t understand.
The airlines had a duty to pull the ENTIRE plane out of service, and reboots the remaining passengers. A few wipes does NOT contain the airborne risk now I’m the filtration system and hovering in the air.
This is an extremely hard time. But we also can’t pretend it doesn’t exist. The most we realize this thing is an unseen for, we can carry without realizing, the more we will EACH do our part to not risk harming another through exposure.
If you have any symptoms, STAY HOME. It may mean being alone. But we are not in Nazi war camps, not in air raid shelters every night, and not without a country as they were in WW2. We should take precautions so we have MANY MORE years later to enjoy and relish our friends and freedoms. Use your freedom right now, to protect each other...
I'm glad the author of the letter came forward.
You can't sue a dead man for violating health requirements.
And, may not be illegal to travel w/ covid. It is against UAL's regulations. It might have violated California's laws to not declare a positive covid test IF he had arrived.
Unless the wife pushed the buttons and lied, she is not necessarily an accomplice. The intent of the deceased cannot be determined.
United did...
I'm glad the author of the letter came forward.
You can't sue a dead man for violating health requirements.
And, may not be illegal to travel w/ covid. It is against UAL's regulations. It might have violated California's laws to not declare a positive covid test IF he had arrived.
Unless the wife pushed the buttons and lied, she is not necessarily an accomplice. The intent of the deceased cannot be determined.
United did make the decision to continue with the flight; there is no supposing about what MSY might have done. If the flight could not continue, UA and MSY have to figure out how to protect the other passengers.
Unfortunately, money is what it takes to get companies to come forward.
We wouldn't be talking about this if the passenger simply filed a complaint with the DOT.
This is America, I'm free to infect you with a deadly virus. If you don't want it then don't fly, or go to the store or ever leave your house. FREEDOM!
Typical of all airlines and companies to say they do all this extra precautions but in reality not much is done. It costs money to do extra. They are a business and will cut cost to the max. Until you get caught.
@Josh : i agree - lawsuits definitely need to be coming
specifically, UA should sue his estate for falsifying COVID records, intentionally defrauding the airline by not notifying them at check in and boarding, intentionally bringing onboard a biohazard and endangering dozens of other, on the order of voluntary manslaughter.
As well as his wife - a willful accomplice to manslaughter.
@lucky : jesus christ that guy is such a loser.
what, did he expect UA to trot out all the marketing materials during events like this and respond with such boilerplate they'll be yelled at for being tone deaf ??
and you can hear his god damn sense of entitlement " oh i deserve $20000 for seeing this"
i myself saw a protestor self-immolate to death in front of United Nations Geneva, 2009, protesting...
@lucky : jesus christ that guy is such a loser.
what, did he expect UA to trot out all the marketing materials during events like this and respond with such boilerplate they'll be yelled at for being tone deaf ??
and you can hear his god damn sense of entitlement " oh i deserve $20000 for seeing this"
i myself saw a protestor self-immolate to death in front of United Nations Geneva, 2009, protesting about the conflict at Kashmir, and didn't even border mentioning it to my friends until a couple years later, and he thinks a dinky covid thing deserves $20k each. And that was my first ever trip to Switzerland.
Maybe i should call Tedros too ?
@Daniel D and all others who feel a negative test result should be required to fly: It can take up to 5 days for the virus to show up on the tests. A person would need to take the test, get in his car and immediately quarantine himself at home. Once he gets the (hopefully) negative test result, he still needs to quarantine himself at home until time for the flight. He'd then need to...
@Daniel D and all others who feel a negative test result should be required to fly: It can take up to 5 days for the virus to show up on the tests. A person would need to take the test, get in his car and immediately quarantine himself at home. Once he gets the (hopefully) negative test result, he still needs to quarantine himself at home until time for the flight. He'd then need to bubble wrap himself to get to the airport, go through security, and walk to the actual gate, at which time he could finally present his negative test result before boarding the plane. Just because someone has a negative test result from the past 24-36 hours doesn't mean he didn't leave the testing site and party at a bar or go to the grocery store and become exposed/infected on his way home. But so many people won't learn or accept the truth as it is right now. One of my coworkers delights in teasing and harassing me about wearing my mask, but I don't care. I'm doing everything in my power to stay safe and healthy, which also helps protect the idiot coworker, whether he will admit it or not. The infected man and his wife had no business being on that plane, but that guilt is something the wife will have to live with ... if she doesn't succumb to the virus soon herself.
I am assuming by now that the person and his family were tested. Were the results negative or positive? I’m hoping they are ok.
I have read most of the comments but not all. Out of curiosity, does anyone think that guy should receive the compensation.
Anyway, he knows how to write a letter. I am looking forward to his book. I will read it right after I am done reading Dr. Daos book.
United and all other airlines should require a negative test result to fly. Hawaii (and Hawaiian Airlines) are already doing this I believe. To me that is the lesson from this. If you are somehow unable or unwilling to get the test, then you just can't fly. We are in a huge surge of cases currently so this should be the way it works for the next couple months.
United will and have to take responsibilities regarding not changing a contaminated aircraft when the man died with Covid-19 and endangering other pax by flying with the same aircraft without cleaning it properly.
The wife of the deceased should be penalised for withholding their positive Covid-19 status from the airline and still board the plane knowingly endangering pax and crew!
Finally the greedy person whose intention to capiltalise from the Covid-19 scare onboard...
United will and have to take responsibilities regarding not changing a contaminated aircraft when the man died with Covid-19 and endangering other pax by flying with the same aircraft without cleaning it properly.
The wife of the deceased should be penalised for withholding their positive Covid-19 status from the airline and still board the plane knowingly endangering pax and crew!
Finally the greedy person whose intention to capiltalise from the Covid-19 scare onboard should be penalised as well and bann them from flying!
Wife knew he had COVID. They should transfer all assets of the family to the other passengers for knowingly endangering them.
@Bernard Szeto, Agree with you. I suspect the individual was out of town in Orlando and when he got sick - he wanted to get home ASAP to address the situation at home. Could be the Florida hospitals were full or deemed not be as good as some in Southern CA.
Problem was he waited too long and really needed urgent care immediately.
This really is a tragic situation as it for all that...
@Bernard Szeto, Agree with you. I suspect the individual was out of town in Orlando and when he got sick - he wanted to get home ASAP to address the situation at home. Could be the Florida hospitals were full or deemed not be as good as some in Southern CA.
Problem was he waited too long and really needed urgent care immediately.
This really is a tragic situation as it for all that get Covid. The fact that people are knowingly flying with Covid pretty much tells me that it is now safe to fly (yet).
My chances of flying now have dropped from 10% to 0%. Will need the vaccine first.
If I were on that flight and observed the man struggling to breath, I would have said something and removed myself from the flight.
But, really, this is why you should not fly right now. Too many things that are outside of your control that can affect your health.
This still reflects United culture from top down. Despite the Friendly Sky slogan, individual employees are not empowered to make a critical call and decision in rate events like this. If the employees are actually embraced with the Friendly Sky cultured and empowered to do the right thing, instead of doing everything for the spreadsheet, I am sure they will be proactively cleaning the aircraft and arrange new travel options for the passengers. Unfortunately, they...
This still reflects United culture from top down. Despite the Friendly Sky slogan, individual employees are not empowered to make a critical call and decision in rate events like this. If the employees are actually embraced with the Friendly Sky cultured and empowered to do the right thing, instead of doing everything for the spreadsheet, I am sure they will be proactively cleaning the aircraft and arrange new travel options for the passengers. Unfortunately, they don't have that power and they are only asked to work for the spreadsheet.
That being said, even if United did the right thing, I am sure the same passenger will still demand $20k per person for the family because they arrive LA later than planned, which must be very traumatic for the kids. /s
Sounds unfortunately rather like the "Fear the Walking Dead Flight 462" webisodes, except the deceased fortunately did not reanimate
Does that sound cynical to make this comparison? It isn't. In both FTWD as well as in real life THIS MAN NEVER SHOULD HAVE BEEN ON A PLANE.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJ5c7wLpVe8
Why would the man want to board a flight? Could very well be that there was no room in the hospital in Orlando, or his health insurance doesn't cover out-of-state hospitalizations, or it was too expensive to pay for the hospital fee and to house the wife in a hotel at the same time. My guess!
Whoa.....hold on a sec, all you whiners who think passengers should have been deplaned etc in MSY. Sure, you could have left the aircraft there. But I feel UA did the right thing in keeping those passengers isolated. That aircraft was probably full of cooties! Cancelling the trip, having those people at a hotel—if it came to that, having them go into and out of the airport. I think it was best that once the...
Whoa.....hold on a sec, all you whiners who think passengers should have been deplaned etc in MSY. Sure, you could have left the aircraft there. But I feel UA did the right thing in keeping those passengers isolated. That aircraft was probably full of cooties! Cancelling the trip, having those people at a hotel—if it came to that, having them go into and out of the airport. I think it was best that once the deceased was removed from the plane that they carry on, which they did. The plane, and passengers were contaminated at that point already anyway. Now sadly we wait and hopefully no one or only a few come down with covid thanks to a careless man who lost his life due to his and his families stupidity.
Complaining that his kids will have to quarantine and miss school is ridiculous. He chose to travel with his children in the middle of a pandemic. He chose to accept that risk, and the risk that he and his family night have to quarantine. Did these precious angels miss school to travel? If you choose to travel right now, you lose any credibility about complaining about an exposure.
It feels like 90% of these commenters are Trump Supporters. Your responses are appalling.
To feel ANYTHING other than devastated for the family and those who endured, witnessed and suffered is reprehensible.
Another example of The Great America. I feel zero sympathy for the dead man or his wife who assisted in putting hundreds of others at risk. His actions would lead you to believe he is that same idiot trying to get into Costco without a mask because it is no worse than the flu. Then you have the true American ready to take a cash payment for the risk “United” put him and his family...
Another example of The Great America. I feel zero sympathy for the dead man or his wife who assisted in putting hundreds of others at risk. His actions would lead you to believe he is that same idiot trying to get into Costco without a mask because it is no worse than the flu. Then you have the true American ready to take a cash payment for the risk “United” put him and his family through even though he took a family trip to Orlando during a pandemic that is causing the countries economy to free fall.
What a wonderful place to call Home!
Aren't we all tired of of grifters (on the ground and in the air) trying to capitalise on the misfortune of others?
Seems some board a plane with an eye to catch any infraction or perceived inconvenience and scream for compensation, be it 1,000 points or $20,000 (for each family member).
I hope United give them each a domestic travel voucher for a one-way 500 mile flight in Economy Minus valid until 31 December 2020.
Or maybe their generic Sorry letter.......
I'm not an attorney, nor act to be one, but United Airlines will be sued over this incident. They let this person board. They should require covid tests on ALL US airline flights in my opinion. So United, if indeed this man had covid, is responsible for these other passengers. This man does have a valid lawsuit.
Why would anybody get on a flight this sick no matter what the cause? But knowing they were positive and clearly not even asymptomatic. And what was wrong with his family??? Otherwise I agree this is a sad and shameless money grab. I’ve been on multiple flights where people have suffered medical emergencies and one where the passenger I believe died. It just unfortunately happens and it’s life.
@WHYWHYF,
the deep cleaning with UV light and the fogging has to be done with no one on board. You deserve nothing.
The death is tragic. To understand why someone would travel who tested positive, is beyond my cognitive capabilities.
Yet, this disease is here to stay for a while, people carrying the virus (whether aware or not, whether asymptomatic or not) are around you. The less you expose yourself to confined crowded places (whatever your definition of that may be, for me it definitely includes planes), the lower the likelihood of getting exposed to the virus....
The death is tragic. To understand why someone would travel who tested positive, is beyond my cognitive capabilities.
Yet, this disease is here to stay for a while, people carrying the virus (whether aware or not, whether asymptomatic or not) are around you. The less you expose yourself to confined crowded places (whatever your definition of that may be, for me it definitely includes planes), the lower the likelihood of getting exposed to the virus. The case numbers in Florida have been very high, if you travel there with your entire family, you expose them to a high risk. Period.
I flew from London to Sydney in August. Nearly empty plane because of government limits on inbound into Australia. It was an essential flight home.
1. MANDATORY covid test before flight - no test not fly - AIRLINE REQUIRED IT!!!!!!
2. MANDATORY mask from home, in taxi, arrival at London terminal till in my POLICE SECURED QUARANTINE ROOM in a hotel. 32 hours!!!
It is inconceivable the levels of selfishness, stupidity and denial of...
I flew from London to Sydney in August. Nearly empty plane because of government limits on inbound into Australia. It was an essential flight home.
1. MANDATORY covid test before flight - no test not fly - AIRLINE REQUIRED IT!!!!!!
2. MANDATORY mask from home, in taxi, arrival at London terminal till in my POLICE SECURED QUARANTINE ROOM in a hotel. 32 hours!!!
It is inconceivable the levels of selfishness, stupidity and denial of ALL concerned: the deceased and his family, the holidaying family and the Airline.
FREEDOMS which we cherish, com eat a cost. That cost is a mutuality to keep those around us free from harm as we exercise our freedoms.
There is no right to bear viruses in public, let alone in a confined space such as a plane.
No right to knowingly put others at risk.
No right to ignore safety protocols in order to continue the flight.
People have confused rights and freedoms with reckless indifference; with abrogation of responsibility to community; of the overarching duty of every person and leader, to protect others from our actions causing HARM.
Yea, this family lost me when he said “$20,000 per family member should help the emotional trauma they suffered,” really?? He’s a disgusting opportunist. It looks like the family also was sitting in the very cheap seats...now they want a lot of cash. Go figure. ** The family suing is just as gross as the family flying with known covid.
In summary
A. Everyone thinks they are the exception and sure that it would be fine until they get busted and more than willing to risk the lives of people they don't know.
B. Someone will try to profit from situation A
I feel very bad for those who performed CPR on this person as well as those who were seated near him. All of those are at very high risk of getting COVID. This passenger if known COVID was so irresponsible.
"family matter": i.e. getting together
Poor doctors that had to assist a covid patient without its proper equipments. This are the one tah in case got infected shoud get some $$.
"Is there no shame left in this country?"
Nope.
Of the idiots, by the idiots, and for the idiots.
Selfish guy and family get on plane knowing he has Covid. It seems like that would be the worst thing someone on the flight would do. But no, an even more selfish guy tries to cash in on it.
Only in America.
Moaning his kids will miss school due to quarantine when they were already missing school to go to Florida.
Is there no shame left in this country?
Your reader sounds like a ghastly vulgarian.
"At an absolute minimum the airline should have ... given passengers the option of whether or not they want to continue to Los Angeles"
The problem with this is you now have a bunch of passengers with known exposure to a COVID patient stuck in New Orleans. Is United expected to put them on another flight with this knowledge? Are they expected to provide a hotel for these passengers to quarantine?
First of all WTF! How could someone who knew they were covid positive, let alone highly symptomatic put themselves in a position to infect and potentially kill other people? Prosecutors should test the attempted manslaughter laws to their limits in such cases.
Other than that its not really clear how this is UAs fault. Their hands are tied legally and they must only go by what is self reported. The plaintiffs and everybody else...
First of all WTF! How could someone who knew they were covid positive, let alone highly symptomatic put themselves in a position to infect and potentially kill other people? Prosecutors should test the attempted manslaughter laws to their limits in such cases.
Other than that its not really clear how this is UAs fault. Their hands are tied legally and they must only go by what is self reported. The plaintiffs and everybody else on the plane should sue the deceased's family and estate because its very clear that some of them at least were aware of his covid status. Normally I'd be sympathetic to the deceased and his family but if what has been reported is true f*ck them all. They need to be dragged through the legal system and be made an example of.
If you are that concerned with the virus then why would you be flying at all? Holding United responsible for your health is ridiculous. You are the one that put your children in harms way by traveling during a pandemic.
Your beef should be with the family that boarded the flight knowing that a family member had the Covid and that they were in fact exposing every single person on that flight.
While you...
If you are that concerned with the virus then why would you be flying at all? Holding United responsible for your health is ridiculous. You are the one that put your children in harms way by traveling during a pandemic.
Your beef should be with the family that boarded the flight knowing that a family member had the Covid and that they were in fact exposing every single person on that flight.
While you are being responsible (finally) and quarantining, do you think the other 140+ people on that flight will do the same? Absolutely not.
I work in the airline industry and let me say that everyday is a challenge just get people to keep their masks on their faces. It's getting really old. We are all adults.
Traveling is a risk no matter what each airline's cleaning process. If you choose to travel right now, you know this.
What is unknown is if MSY would not let the pax off the plane due to restrictions/exposure/contamination? No one except personal with proper breathing apparatus can be on the aircraft when light and electro-static spraying is done so it sounds like United did what they could in that situation with pax onboard.
...
Traveling is a risk no matter what each airline's cleaning process. If you choose to travel right now, you know this.
What is unknown is if MSY would not let the pax off the plane due to restrictions/exposure/contamination? No one except personal with proper breathing apparatus can be on the aircraft when light and electro-static spraying is done so it sounds like United did what they could in that situation with pax onboard.
CA recommends self-quarantine if you travel outside the state. This has been in effect since Thanksgiving so this family took the risk of traveling for a 'family matter' to FL.the argument about school is mute. If the school knew about their travel, they wouldn't let the children back for a 10-14 day quarantine which extends into the Holiday break anyhow. I agree that some miles or travel credits should be offered as a good will for the all around delay, possible exposure etc but United is not at fault here.
$100 delay for each passenger on the flight. More if you have status. Isn't this something UA would normally do if asked?
Not all private schools are not closed in LA! My son is in pre-school this morning.
Passenger with COVID and spouse exceedingly selfish to put 100+ passengers at risk. This is an example of why COVID is running out of control in US. I hope the wife is banned from flying.
The “give me money of I’ll tell on you” passenger is greedy and self serving and is likely not telling the truth as others have pointed out. Go ahead and sue and you are likely to get a jury...
Passenger with COVID and spouse exceedingly selfish to put 100+ passengers at risk. This is an example of why COVID is running out of control in US. I hope the wife is banned from flying.
The “give me money of I’ll tell on you” passenger is greedy and self serving and is likely not telling the truth as others have pointed out. Go ahead and sue and you are likely to get a jury that is representative of many of the commenters here. Trying to extort money by exploiting someone else’s death is despicable. Making a written demand with statements which will ultimately be proven to be lies is idiotic from a legal standpoint as a jury would view you as a liar and give you nothing.
United should have deep cleaned the plane if nothing else Than to give reassurance to the passengers. Fomite transmission is not nearly as much a risk as airborne for Covid. They should also given the passengers an alternative transportation choice if they could not deep clean the plane at MSY.
HIPPA does apply to the deceased. While a death certificate is public the circumstances leading to the death are almost always private unless there is a coroner’s inquest.
@ whywhyf
Please address the 14 day quarentine and your kids having to miss school because of it issue.
Especially missing school when the school would have been closed for the holidays anyway. So they wouldn't have been in class being educated or seeing their friends etc anyway.
It's suspicious that you addressed many other comments but singularly failed to respond to the comments on this specific issue.
The whole situation is terrible. I completely under that he and his family would be concerned they have caught the disease. Why don’t they just get tested? Just asking as we get for free in Australia and a response in 24 hours. Also everyone on that plane would have been contacted and had told to quarantine and test.
UA was wrong in trying to hide behind HIPAA saying they couldn't contact the hospital for additional info. HIPAA doesn't apply to the deceased.
Maybe the letter writer will take the $20,000 and get writing lessons. Or at least a Grammarly subscription.
There is nothing at all to be afraid of. The airlines "deep clean" the planes between flights and everyone has to wear a mask because that protects everyone from getting Covid. If you dont wear a mark my Millennial non-thinkers- thank no matter how young you are you are thrown off the plane.
Why then is everyone bent out of shape?
In general the number of people that I see getting on an aircraft that look in horrible physical condition is astounding. Yes maybe some of them must travel but my bet would be most do not. I'm also surprised there aren't more inflight medical emergencies but like inflight behavioral problems I see this trend growing.
This might be the most American situation that's happened this week.
I think this COVID passenger and his family who knowing boarded this flight are irresponsible, self-centered and should all be put on the no fly list! This selfish act should have consequences! Do I have sympathy for the family’s loss, NO! He probably never wore a mask and practiced irresponsible behavior to contact the virus.
@WHYWHYF,
First, I don't wish you harm. My focus is the betterment of our society. And, that is not through your financial claims.
1. Why have you taken no action against the perpetrator of the bad acts?
2. Why are you looking to United as the person or entity that harmed you and your family?
Allow me to comment so you can frame an answer considerate of a few things. While the COVID-19...
@WHYWHYF,
First, I don't wish you harm. My focus is the betterment of our society. And, that is not through your financial claims.
1. Why have you taken no action against the perpetrator of the bad acts?
2. Why are you looking to United as the person or entity that harmed you and your family?
Allow me to comment so you can frame an answer considerate of a few things. While the COVID-19 incident is certainly unforeseeable, flight diversion for death and illness is quite common. I don't stand fully in your shoes on understanding how negligent the 2nd Leg cleaning was, but you still were not required to board. Most everyone on this blog likely has had a similar delay/interruption. The only difference here is the COVID-19 aspect, which, even with United's cleaning, is merely a promise to a mitigation strategy. To assume that their mitigation strategy is a 100% pivotal effectiveness move is a matter of opinion or guess.
While I do not know concretely about COVID-19, many if not most other infectious diseases are most transmittable before symptoms. Symptoms of a sick patient is an indicator of antibodies. The death of a passenger and the beliefs we have about it, as well as the admission of the wife, is admittedly most frustrating. If that is the core of your complaint, perhaps you should think about the causation of your bad experience.
Are you really more upset with United than your fellow passengers? Really?
Isn’t there a question at checking asking you if you have symptoms or have been exposed? If so, the family would have had to flat out LIE a about that in order to be allowed to board.
That in itself is a misrepresentation and as a result of that, the plane was forced to divert to MSY, which obviously has a cost.
Not only should the family be banned for lying about something...
Isn’t there a question at checking asking you if you have symptoms or have been exposed? If so, the family would have had to flat out LIE a about that in order to be allowed to board.
That in itself is a misrepresentation and as a result of that, the plane was forced to divert to MSY, which obviously has a cost.
Not only should the family be banned for lying about something so serious, they should have to repay the costs of the diversion.
While I’m sorry someone lost their life, if the travelers were honest from the start this situation would not have happened.
Those questions are asked for a reason.
If you are traumtized by real life, stay home with your kids and don't try to make some profit out of your fellow traveler's death.
simple fact, THEY withheld the truth at the check-in process.
They knew it, or at least his wife knew.
NOBODY these days could NOT know, the risk of having clear symptoms of COVID . . .
It just shows how much others care about themselves only.
Possibly 100's of others could have gotten it so much easier now, because of 1 Guy!
Nobody is to blame, except those who put...
simple fact, THEY withheld the truth at the check-in process.
They knew it, or at least his wife knew.
NOBODY these days could NOT know, the risk of having clear symptoms of COVID . . .
It just shows how much others care about themselves only.
Possibly 100's of others could have gotten it so much easier now, because of 1 Guy!
Nobody is to blame, except those who put others at risk, knowingly!
Let's hope those who tried helping him making it during the emergency decent, did not catch the Virus.
They would have EVERY reason to sue that family! (those who were trying to help, but getting into the biggest risk of all of them)
$20k? By randomly giving compensation for "the flight attendant rolled her eyes", ( read flyertalk), monsters have been created. Now people want compensation for 20 minute delays.
Hopefully no one on this flight receives compensation for this unavoidable ( by the airline) , tragic delay.
Furthermore, although the wife is grieving, I hope she also is placed on the no fly list.
Sorry not sorry.
This story should have been simply headlined: "Florida Man..."
Thoughtless, egocentric behavior all around.
And while electrostatically spraying the area or even the whole aircraft may have been visually comforting for the passengers, the fact that the aircraft ventilation system was on during the entire incident was probably more physically helpful, as it cleans the air every 4-6 minutes
Love this blog, but sorry, I don't need to read about bones cracking. you wouldn't write about the gory details of a plane crash. This is a gratuitous and sensational account of this poor person's death.
This story should not be about the compensation claim or “shameless cash grab.” We can talk about that later. But this story should focus on the fact that a man and his wife who knew fully well that the man was COVID positive flew on an airplane endangering the life of passengers, crew, and ground staff, even children. Sympathies to the man’s family. But what the deceased did was unacceptable, irresponsible, and foolish.
A selfish man just died.
Ultimately an airline cannot detect if someone has covid. It’s not their responsibility.
The way forward is that they demand all passengers have a CR certificate issued < 96 hours before departure.
The passenger allegedly knowingly boarded a flight having been tested positive, irrespective of the cleaning.
But somehow $120,000 will make it all go away.
This is what people do now and try an extort money from airlines by threatening them.
Hi Everyone, I'm the author of this letter to United.
Allow me to start by thanking each and everyone of you for the hatred and death wishes we received by many commenters. Our family deeply appreciates this and wishing you and your families happy holidays as well..
I would like to clarify few points:
1. Irrelevant to the matter at hand, we did not travel for a vacation, nor did we visit any of the theme parks in Orlando. Our travel was solely...
Hi Everyone, I'm the author of this letter to United.
Allow me to start by thanking each and everyone of you for the hatred and death wishes we received by many commenters. Our family deeply appreciates this and wishing you and your families happy holidays as well..
I would like to clarify few points:
1. Irrelevant to the matter at hand, we did not travel for a vacation, nor did we visit any of the theme parks in Orlando. Our travel was solely for a family matter.
2. Tragedy is a tragedy no matter what. My condolences to the family.
3. My concern to United was not about how the tragic episode occurred, but, rather the lack of proper conduct thereafter.
4. The point of this letter is to expose how United Airlines mislead the public, by promising super futuristic methods to disinfect planes and convincing the public that flying is safer than staying at home. You can read United commitment here: https://www.united.com/ual/en/us/fly/travel/what-to-expect.html. On our way to Orlando the pilot even went further and announced that us sitting on the plane currently "is the safest place you've been since this morning".
5. Allow me to ask the dear readers on this blog, has anyone actually seen any of the special equipment United promised to use on every flight? Have you seen Ultraviolet C (UVC) lighting, OR antimicrobial technology ever used on any of the United flights? I most definitely have not. The cleaning crew seem to use the same simple method of cleaning. I even noticed that the blue vomit bags were not replaced on my flight.
6. You may call my compensation request greedy or any other terms, but a public company can not mislead their customer like United does and get away with that. On my flight the crew were told by the family members that the passenger has a lack of smell and taste (I've heard it myself, and it seems that other passengers confirmed hearing the same). United behavior after that point was completely irresponsible and placed my family in immediate danger. (And btw, where were you when United charged you $50 for the extra pound on your suitcase?...)
This man is seeking unreasonable compensation as this situation can not be avoided. I agree with 1 comment that the real fault lies with the family that lied and covered up the Covid issue to get on the plane (they shouldn't have). In terms of his 4 children, what are you protecting them from? The reality of life? In their life they will see medical emergency situation like this at some point. This didn't happen...
This man is seeking unreasonable compensation as this situation can not be avoided. I agree with 1 comment that the real fault lies with the family that lied and covered up the Covid issue to get on the plane (they shouldn't have). In terms of his 4 children, what are you protecting them from? The reality of life? In their life they will see medical emergency situation like this at some point. This didn't happen to inconvenient or to purposely traumatize them. It is a lame excuse to turn a fast buck. You should worry more about the lesson and message you're giving your children by pursuing this unreasonable demand. You could refuse to continue your flight on this plane at the time. I'm sure United will be more than happy to accommodate at the time. I hate to tell you but the money you're demanding will not all of a sudden cure your children of the "trauma" but will sure treat your wallet well, right?
1. Shameful attitude to blackmail UA by misusing the Covid death onboard. This family should not get any money at all. Otherwise this would be the first of many.
2. The wife and the deceased should have known better to stay at home instead of flying. It is sad that he died but everyone has the responsibility to care for themselves and others. Flying intentionally with Covid-19 and infecting others by it should be...
1. Shameful attitude to blackmail UA by misusing the Covid death onboard. This family should not get any money at all. Otherwise this would be the first of many.
2. The wife and the deceased should have known better to stay at home instead of flying. It is sad that he died but everyone has the responsibility to care for themselves and others. Flying intentionally with Covid-19 and infecting others by it should be punished by law severely.
3. UA should have switched the aircraft after its emergency. They should not force its pax to continue their flight in a contaminated plane.
Here UA clearly failed and did not uphold to the hygienic standards it has been publishing.
So in the end, as long as pax and airlines do not comply honestly to the rules bestowed in order to have a safe and healthy journey, this tragic incident will happen oftenly and more infections and casualties will occur.
dipstick flew and endangered people, Then died, I really do not care and extend zero sympathy I hope the estate is charged any cleaning costs and is sued by the state.
1. That passenger should have never boarded in the first place. By doing so he is violating the terms he agreed to upon check in and booking.
2. United can not enforce their self check, temperature checks don’t tell full story and testing requirements on domestic flights are just not feasible right now.
3. Just like for not wearing masks, UA should ban the family from flying as they knowingly put others in...
1. That passenger should have never boarded in the first place. By doing so he is violating the terms he agreed to upon check in and booking.
2. United can not enforce their self check, temperature checks don’t tell full story and testing requirements on domestic flights are just not feasible right now.
3. Just like for not wearing masks, UA should ban the family from flying as they knowingly put others in danger.
4. An airplane cabin is safer than most places, but traveling is a risk. To travel now is a personal choice but nobody can except 100% saftey unless they never leave their home. Even masks are not 100%, but if they are in the terms one agreed to.
5. United should have absolutely deeper cleaned the plane. I understand finding a new plane or canceling the flight at an outstation is costly and not feasible, but since UA claims they clean deeply between all flights (even at outstations) they should have fully re cleaned the plane.
6. What the people on the plane went though is traumatizing, and between the diversion, delay and all else, United should provide compensation. In my option compensation should be some bonus miles in the account or at a maximum, if they were able to prove the case of trama, a full refund of the tickets. Nothing more. 20 grand is ridiculous.
7. California highly recommends anyone quarantine for 14 days and as far as I am aware, most private schools do not allow anyone who traveled to return to campus for 2 weeks after travel and the kids should attend virtually. Also assuming that it is 14 days from 12/14, the kids would be missing at most maybe a week of school. I don’t know if any school that operates over the holidays.
This is a terrible situation, but I think the passenger is asking for way to much given the situation. The passengers who request should be compensation miles for the delay and possibly a refund as good will for the horrifying experience.
I don't know what's more asinine, the wife knowing her husband had covid and doing nothing to keep him from boarding the flight possibly infecting others at the airport and plane or the clown that wrote that ridiculous letter. You were flying to LA, you would have had to quarantine regardless once you arrived. Private schools aren't even open in California and if they were, this is the last week before the holiday break which...
I don't know what's more asinine, the wife knowing her husband had covid and doing nothing to keep him from boarding the flight possibly infecting others at the airport and plane or the clown that wrote that ridiculous letter. You were flying to LA, you would have had to quarantine regardless once you arrived. Private schools aren't even open in California and if they were, this is the last week before the holiday break which will resume after the new year. Where the hell would they go when there's barely anything open in CA? I have no sympathy for the reader and his non essential family trip to Disney World, you weren't worrying about your family's safety when you were in Florida? Only when when you saw a quick cash grab at the expense of someone's death? I think United was too nice in their reply to this clown.
A commercial carrier like United Airlines has a legal fiduciary duty to its passengers. In the midst of a pandemic, United and all airlines should take the temperature and do a cursory exam by an MD before allowing anyone on a flight. United messed up. Ben and the comments are focused on the wrong actor. If the airlines don't do a much better job of making their planes safe, Ch 7 is just around the...
A commercial carrier like United Airlines has a legal fiduciary duty to its passengers. In the midst of a pandemic, United and all airlines should take the temperature and do a cursory exam by an MD before allowing anyone on a flight. United messed up. Ben and the comments are focused on the wrong actor. If the airlines don't do a much better job of making their planes safe, Ch 7 is just around the corner (or will it be just another type of government welfare/bail out?)
This person is a greedy pig... I call bs with respect to the fact that his kids go to “private school” when he and his family couldn’t even buck up for economy plus!
Of course they couldn't do a deep cleaning. United diverted to MSY, where they didn't have the access to deep cleaning. However, had they diverted to IAH, they would have had access to deep-cleaning equipment and it would've been possible for United to find the passengers another plane to use.
"That’s the extent of it, and there’s really not much else airlines can do, especially for domestic flights"
Given the way airlines are handling this now, sure. But why aren't temperatures being taken before boarding? This happens in other countries, but perhaps something something freedom America?
@ Frustrated -- Unfortunately temperature checks aren't really a useful screening tool. Fewer than 45% of Covid-19 patients have a fever even when admitted to hospital, temperatures can go up and down during the course of the illness, one can be contagious without a fever, etc. They'd perhaps be better than nothing, but...
So if someone randomly collapses and dies, then the airline has to compensate everyone on board because the airline induced trauma? Got it.
I am an attorney. But I want to share my ethical view.
There are ways to win with the legal system. There are ways to with values and ethics.
Both have various perspectives, angles, and creative arguments.
The fact that the family is seeking something from United, (for me) is the largest aspect that they are unwilling to take responsibility for their own choices, as they seek to blame United with not one...
I am an attorney. But I want to share my ethical view.
There are ways to win with the legal system. There are ways to with values and ethics.
Both have various perspectives, angles, and creative arguments.
The fact that the family is seeking something from United, (for me) is the largest aspect that they are unwilling to take responsibility for their own choices, as they seek to blame United with not one mention of the culpability of the perpetrator!
This incident was certainly not a foreseeable event! I realize that may soften the family's own contribution of deciding to partake in a semi-public venue. It's most unfortunate. I have stated all year, even on Lucky's posts that we know from the past that telling people what to do for the safety of others is mostly ineffective. SARS and HIV history, amongst many other examples, proves this. Expect everyone is positive. Take action to care for yourself. That is the key to public health and scholarly decisions. YOU have the highest vested interest in your health and life, and as such placing your fate blindly in those you can blame may yield little.
Now if you are wanting to take legal action, file action against him and the family. Whether you look out for society and support pushing criminal actions, or act selfishly for your own pocket, and file action as a civil case alone is up to you. Either can impact change. But the earlier comments I made will protect your life.
United could absolutely stop this man from flying--if they required testing. I love that the family flying now thinks they have to quarantine when after a trip they always should have been doing so anyway?
anyone flying for leisure/pleasure right now is simply idiotic, and deserves whatever risk they encounter.
*Sorry, it's not even 80k he's trying to gain. I didn't realize - he has 4 children, not two. 20,000 dollars per person then amounts to $120,000 in total for the family. Insanity.
First, if he plans to sue UA, it's fairly obvious to see which side will win. After that's done, UA should ban him and his family members. Quite simple.
Well. If there ever was a more deserving person to die of covid...
"Now, hopefully no one else was infected due to planes generally having good mask compliance, but…"
Ignoring the money, etc. I'd like to remind you that mask compliance DOES NOT PROTECT YOU COMPLETELY(it's better than nothing). The primary purpose is to prevent the sick person from spreading the virus. Even if he wore a mask to begin with surely it was removed when CPR was done - therefore the potential for spewing virus into...
"Now, hopefully no one else was infected due to planes generally having good mask compliance, but…"
Ignoring the money, etc. I'd like to remind you that mask compliance DOES NOT PROTECT YOU COMPLETELY(it's better than nothing). The primary purpose is to prevent the sick person from spreading the virus. Even if he wore a mask to begin with surely it was removed when CPR was done - therefore the potential for spewing virus into the air (esp near him) was high and the way UA handled NOT DISINFECTING the plane is a disgrace.
The experience may have been traumatic for the guy who is asking for compensation (and his family). However, I think asking for compensation just displays such an egregious, grossly flagrant disregard of sympathy and empathy for everyone onboard and everyone witnessing the incident and I feel that he's just trying to capitalize on United's recent PR faults. He literally threatens that he will take the story to social media. Well, here it is, and I...
The experience may have been traumatic for the guy who is asking for compensation (and his family). However, I think asking for compensation just displays such an egregious, grossly flagrant disregard of sympathy and empathy for everyone onboard and everyone witnessing the incident and I feel that he's just trying to capitalize on United's recent PR faults. He literally threatens that he will take the story to social media. Well, here it is, and I don't think anyone's buying his piece of crap lame excuse for wanting a free $20k cash-in PER PERSON(!!). Have some sympathy. Empathy. Feelings. Consideration. And just think - United, nor any other airline flying to locations without entry requirements, is requiring passengers to produce proof of a negative covid test. As reckless/stupid/etc as it is of the now-deceased person to be flying in the first place and possibly infecting others while knowingly being infected, United has no requirement to know of each passenger's covid status. Personally, I believe that if he truly was really serious about the trauma, or possible covid positivity, he would ask United to fund one month, two months, three months etc. worth of therapy as well as covid tests for his family or something along those lines. But he isn't doing that. He's straight up asking for 20k per family member. That's 80k he is trying to gain from this sad situation. And of course, instead of suing the wife/family who knew about the husband's covid+ status and still took a flight, endangering everyone onboard, he is threatening United and saying that he will try his best to tarnish their reputation if they don't pay him 80k. Don't do it, United. Don't fall for it. No one believes this disgusting person, nor his disgusting and egregious behavior, and it's obvious that he's simply trying to capitalize on a horrible situation.
Ben, I’ve followed your blog for years, and I appreciate reviews are harder to come by; but I come here to get a break from mainstream media and the hype and read good quality airline news. The above story and an increasing amount you publish are slipping fast in the wrong direction. I would really appreciate if you focussed on non-hype stories please.
I have no sympathy for that man and I hope United bans the widow for life. They exposed others to severe health threats and the widow should pay for all damages caused.
Person who wrote the letter screams of white privilege
Yet another incident where UA was absolutely tone deaf to their own message. It is simply inexcusable to have continued the flight on the same plane when it was known that a passenger passed away onboard w/ a contagious disease.
Lots went wrong but UA ultimately will bear responsibility and be remembered for how it handled this situation.
The dead man is no different from a man aware that he has HIV and has lots of sex.
The complaint letter is not well written.
This situation is horrific. I feel the worst for the people who tried to resuscitate this man. CPR is an aerosolizing process and those responders had to do so without adequate PPE. Everyone should have been taken off the plane.
As much as a roll my eyes at temperature checks at my hospital (since we have to self monitor and stay home with a fever anyway), perhaps it would catch someone with active infection...
This situation is horrific. I feel the worst for the people who tried to resuscitate this man. CPR is an aerosolizing process and those responders had to do so without adequate PPE. Everyone should have been taken off the plane.
As much as a roll my eyes at temperature checks at my hospital (since we have to self monitor and stay home with a fever anyway), perhaps it would catch someone with active infection who refuses to consider rules or other people. Temperature checks on and off a plane seem mandatory at this point.
First, my sympathies go to the family of the deceased. Regardless of if he had Covid or not, losing a family member is always traumatic. My sympathies also extend to the crew and other passengers (except the passengers asking for money, I’ll get to you in a bit) being in a situation like this is extremely traumatic as well.
Secondly, should the person who passed away actually been traveling if he had symptoms? No! Should...
First, my sympathies go to the family of the deceased. Regardless of if he had Covid or not, losing a family member is always traumatic. My sympathies also extend to the crew and other passengers (except the passengers asking for money, I’ll get to you in a bit) being in a situation like this is extremely traumatic as well.
Secondly, should the person who passed away actually been traveling if he had symptoms? No! Should the family have been traveling too? No! Los Angeles County is currently under a Stay-at-home Order. The county’s ICU bed capacity is less than 100 beds open as of yesterday’s Los Angeles Times. (https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-12-15/southern-california-icu-capacity-covid-19-surge). All official health orders say to stay home.
Thirdly, if English classes taught me anything, let's use your words against you. “[Myself], my wife and our 4 children will have to quarantine for 14 days." So you were traveling and didn't think you should quarantine for fourteen days after? Disregard the fact that you’d be putting other lives at risk, as you don't think about them; it's extremely irresponsible to believe that you shouldn’t quarantine after the vacation is just stupidity at this point. "Since our kids are still in school (private school) they will have to miss now 14 days of education and interactions," Traveling as a family during a pandemic presumably going to DisneyWorld while your kids, as I understand it, are in learning in person again shows irresponsibility on your part.
Now, the $120,000 payout. United doesn’t owe you anything. "United is promising to take the extra step (CleanPlus)." The United CleanPlus page says at the bottom: "Some enhancements may not be available at all airports or on all flights." (United). You could have just as well gotten off the flight at New Orleans, and United probably would’ve rebooked you to get to LA as soon as possible. And if anything, Having four children going to a private school in the Los Angles area, and being able to fly to Orlando for a vacation in the middle of a pandemic, I'm going to assume you’re pretty well off. You don’t need the money, and if United somehow gives in to your demands, the money should be donated to people who need it more than you.
The letter writer not only sucks at grammar and spelling, he is a liar. Private schools are closed in the greater LA area. And IF any are open, it’s a hybrid model where his kids would only attend for a couple of hrs/day. Further, as someone else accurately pointed out, if you are arriving into CA from out of state (that would be you Mr. Greedy and Family) you are supposed to quarantine for 14...
The letter writer not only sucks at grammar and spelling, he is a liar. Private schools are closed in the greater LA area. And IF any are open, it’s a hybrid model where his kids would only attend for a couple of hrs/day. Further, as someone else accurately pointed out, if you are arriving into CA from out of state (that would be you Mr. Greedy and Family) you are supposed to quarantine for 14 days. And PS your kids would NOT miss 14 days of that mythical private school which is currently open (according to you) because schools are on break AS OF FRI.
If you plan to lie, get your story straight.
Re: the dead guy and his family—sorry for your loss but really? You got on a flight knowing he had loss of taste, smell and shortness of breath? This is 2020. Unless you live under a rock, are deaf or blind you MAY have heard of Coronavirus. Yea. That. SMH...what is this world coming to??
United: think you may need additional training for your staff. Perhaps a line that states “In the event of a passenger dying in transit due to an ongoing pandemic please remove all people from the plane so the plane can be sanitized properly.”
It isn't your business what United does.
May the passenger who passed away rest in peace. It's clear he should have been in the hospital versus in a plane. Not a medical expert here but he was probably very contagious given how he had symptoms so hopefully the other passengers will be ok.
I wonder if United informed the other passengers while in Louisiana that the passenger who passed away tested positive for covid. I know if I heard that, the...
May the passenger who passed away rest in peace. It's clear he should have been in the hospital versus in a plane. Not a medical expert here but he was probably very contagious given how he had symptoms so hopefully the other passengers will be ok.
I wonder if United informed the other passengers while in Louisiana that the passenger who passed away tested positive for covid. I know if I heard that, the first thing I would have done is ask for United to rebook me on another flight.
@Nick maybe. In the US lower income people have Medicaid. Often Medicaid will only cover services in the state you live. Now technically in life or death situations they should cover out of state; but, not all Medicaid plans do.
As far as regular insurance it wouldn’t matter.
Also side note this is why some People want some sort of COVID immunity for businesses in the next round of stimulus bill. There will be so many lawsuits like this.
At least the deceased didn’t have to resist dragging off the plane like Dr. Dao.
So the money grabbing prick is a reader on here? Good! I hope he sees how the community reacts to his BS attempt to blackmail United after he was so careless to fly his family to Florida during a pandemic.
You are what is wrong with our society. I truly feel sorry for your kids and it’s 100% your fault for taking them out of the safety of their home during the peak of...
So the money grabbing prick is a reader on here? Good! I hope he sees how the community reacts to his BS attempt to blackmail United after he was so careless to fly his family to Florida during a pandemic.
You are what is wrong with our society. I truly feel sorry for your kids and it’s 100% your fault for taking them out of the safety of their home during the peak of the pandemic on a leisure trip.
I hope United bans you for life from traveling with them for your pathetic, low life attempt to blackmail them into a pay out.
I’m not from America and I don’t have to pay for hospital treatment in my country but is it possible this guy was going back to California because his insurance only covered him there, and not in Florida?
He was asking UA to pay 20K per family member? Seriously? What’s wrong with some people this days? Someone passed away and let’s take advantage on that? So sad!!
This situation certainly demands compensation. United should deposit 250 miles into the aggrieved family’s account.
Lucky, 10 months into this you should know better than to harp on the deep cleaning.
The real risk was while the man was on the plane spewing the virus throughout the cabin, not after he’s off the plane.
Actual surface transmission is rare. But I guess it’s hard for United to do anything right?
I can find literally no information about this story except for this blog. Where's the sources? Any links to any reputable news sources about this? I feel like this would be a MASSIVE story, but when I google any related string I can think of, this site is the only thing that comes up. Skeptical.
@ Ryan -- Normally I'd say "give it a few days," as it isn't unusual for Ben to lead the mainstream news cycle by 24-72 hours. However, not only have there been a few Covid-related deaths on planes this year already, nearly 3,000 other people died of Covid in the U.S. on Monday, so we may be at a point where this is all unfortunate, but not "mainstream newsworthy".
A local station in New Orleans...
@ Ryan -- Normally I'd say "give it a few days," as it isn't unusual for Ben to lead the mainstream news cycle by 24-72 hours. However, not only have there been a few Covid-related deaths on planes this year already, nearly 3,000 other people died of Covid in the U.S. on Monday, so we may be at a point where this is all unfortunate, but not "mainstream newsworthy".
A local station in New Orleans did note the diversion here though: https://www.wdsu.com/amp/article/medical-emergency-prompts-flight-heading-to-los-angeles-to-land-in-new-orleans/
This is why so many of us have stopped flying, especially those who are retired and over 65. There are too many people who either don't care or won't follow the guidelines and voluntary enforcement doesn't work. Airlines are getting more into debt and some will not survive while tens of thousands of employees will lose their jobs, both airline employees and those who work in the distribution chain. We will eventually get over it...
This is why so many of us have stopped flying, especially those who are retired and over 65. There are too many people who either don't care or won't follow the guidelines and voluntary enforcement doesn't work. Airlines are getting more into debt and some will not survive while tens of thousands of employees will lose their jobs, both airline employees and those who work in the distribution chain. We will eventually get over it after another year or two if the vaccinations work well and people take them. In the meantime, those who lose their income will be impacted for a much longer time. if you don't want to risk being exposed to the virus don't use public transportation to go to the airport, don't go to the airport itself and lastly, don't fly.
@Stvr, How would they ban the dead guy? He's not going to be flying again.
this passenger who wants money should be self quarantining for 14 days when they got home from vacation regardless of what happened on the flight. How does he know they weren't exposed to covid at Disney World? At the grocery store, any where else?
United should ban the passenger for lying during checkin about their breathing symptoms.
The dead: an irresponsible jerk
The letter writer: a greedy jerk
Welcome to America
Few thoughts:
1. Did the deceased passenger definitely test positive for Covid or did he just have symptoms? Can't make it out as, in letter, family says he has Covid because he had symptoms however, the reader later goes on to label the passenger as a 'confirmed Covid Passenger'- to me there's a big difference between the two, especially when asking for compensation (But either way, passenger shouldn't have flown IMO)
2. " myself, my...
Few thoughts:
1. Did the deceased passenger definitely test positive for Covid or did he just have symptoms? Can't make it out as, in letter, family says he has Covid because he had symptoms however, the reader later goes on to label the passenger as a 'confirmed Covid Passenger'- to me there's a big difference between the two, especially when asking for compensation (But either way, passenger shouldn't have flown IMO)
2. " myself, my wife and our 4 children will have to quarantine for 14 days. Since our kids are still in school (private school) they will have to miss now 14 days of education and interactions with their friends and family simply because United had failed to clean their plane.", you ran that risk when you elected to travel to MCO (and let's be honest, with a family of six, we all know the reason why).
3. $20K each! Where did you pull that figure from? Guess someone overspent at Magic Kingdom...
4. Bottom of United's 'CleanPlus' web page "Some enhancements may not be available at all airports or on all flights.".
5. Why didn't you mention the cleanliness of the aircraft to the crew or lady 'wearing white t-shirt'
cleaning the seat? Or did you think that mentioning it would lower your chances of a payout?
6. "Perhaps moving the man to the front or back of the plane would have helped avoiding the kid’s trauma?". Keeping the man in same place would help contain any spread of the virus. Also, probably easier for you to move your'e family than move a, presumably, unconscious body.
7. Throughout your entire trip there seems to be many chances where you could have prevented the issue you've stated, yet you dint take any of those chances, failed to be proactive, and now want a $120K payout. All of this could have been prevented had you decided not to travel to Orland during in a global pandemic. I'm not here to judge whether traveling in a pandemic is right or wrong (personally I think that decision is up to the individual) , but with the decision to travel comes self accountability and self responsibility meaning that *you* are responsible for *yourself*, and evidently you fail to understand that.
They should ban the guy who flew
Lol my thoughts are not with everyone. They are with the other passengers who had to witness that traumatic ordeal, and also be exposed to this clown. Screw that guy and his family. They should absolutely be held accountable for their behavior.
So $ fixes everything for him. Landing at LAX from other state and country, you are suggested to quarantine for 14days anyways. So he was gonna let the kids go to school right away?! Smart father. People fly anyways regardless of pandemic, so if you chose to fly, you are doing so at your own risk.
Three things, the dead guy and his wife known full well that he has covid and still decided to fly and endangering everyone on that flight.... passengers on that plane should go after the wife for compensation no ifs and buts. However, given how everyone is lawsuit happy in US, United will most likely be on the hook.... always go after the ones with deepest pockets. Secondly, if I were United, I would had gotten...
Three things, the dead guy and his wife known full well that he has covid and still decided to fly and endangering everyone on that flight.... passengers on that plane should go after the wife for compensation no ifs and buts. However, given how everyone is lawsuit happy in US, United will most likely be on the hook.... always go after the ones with deepest pockets. Secondly, if I were United, I would had gotten everyone off the plane and get a new plane to transport rest of the passengers to LA. Or minimally take several hours to deep clean the plane before reboarding everyone. I mean someone didn’t learn their lesson in how to cover their asses during job training... Lastly, passengers should band together and hire Erika Jayne’s husband,Tom Girardi, to file class action lawsuit against United. They might win some money... oh wait, I don’t think those families from Lion Flight 610 have gotten their money yet.
Not sure I can muster sympathy for the letter writer as it sounds like they were taking an unnecessary vacation in the middle of a pandemic. As for why someone with severe illness would board a transcontinental flight, perhaps it was because he knew he was probably going to die and couldn’t afford the $20k+ medevac flight to die at home. Not excusing the choice to potentially infect others, but perhaps that explains it.
So while the rest of us are heeding expert medical advice and not traveling, this guy took his kids on a vacation to Orlando and now wants 120k because it backfired and he experienced exactly the thing that has kept the rest of us from traveling? Wow. Someone dies and his first thought is not the safety of his family, its staying on board and getting paid.
It's all bad.
The decease man was extremely negligence towards the safety of others.
The wife was accessory to that extreme negligence.
Then there are people trying to profit from this.
These sums up people these days.
I feel sorry for the family of the deceased and the stress passengers had to go through because of this selfish guy and spouse.
Seriously bad to fly with COVID symptoms, but I get it. Imagine the deceased guy’s family didn’t want to stay for a month in Orlando while recovering. Horrible to knowingly expose people and they should be banned. However anyone who gets on a plane during this pandemic must accept they are choosing to place themself at risk. The guy who wrote the complaint clearly can’t accept our terrible reality of being in a pandemic and...
Seriously bad to fly with COVID symptoms, but I get it. Imagine the deceased guy’s family didn’t want to stay for a month in Orlando while recovering. Horrible to knowingly expose people and they should be banned. However anyone who gets on a plane during this pandemic must accept they are choosing to place themself at risk. The guy who wrote the complaint clearly can’t accept our terrible reality of being in a pandemic and that sucks for his family. Taking children on a plane right now is extremely irresponsible.
People understandably don't want to speak ill of the dead and I get that--full sympathy for the man that passed away. But the fault here lies entirely with those who would knowingly travel while sick and presumably lying to United employees during screening. The cleaning was really all they could do. The issue was the shared air during the flight. Was the wife on the flight with him? Wasn't clear to me. We can assume she is positive as well.
Amazing what $20k each can cure!
So the kids would have missed 14 days of school.
The incident apparently happened Monday so 14 days from Tuesday would mean they would miss school until Monday 28th if you include weekends.
I’m sure even private school shut down for the holidays.
As for the social media and take you to court if you don’t pay up blackmail they lost any sympathy from me on that.
Messed up situation for sure but medical situations happen.
This guy is a total Karen. Coming straight out of the gates with lines “taking to social media” and “$20,000.”
Without all that crap this guy would likely have gotten a reasonable response. Now he just looks like a clown.
W (and I can't stress this enough) TF!!!
I don't even know where to start with this horror show.
- This guy deciding he could fly is what is wrong with the US. It represents a lot of terrible behaviors.
- I should be more sympathetic of the dead, but maybe if this guy had taken covid seriously he would have got help and lived. Congrats you died of a "fake" virus.
...
W (and I can't stress this enough) TF!!!
I don't even know where to start with this horror show.
- This guy deciding he could fly is what is wrong with the US. It represents a lot of terrible behaviors.
- I should be more sympathetic of the dead, but maybe if this guy had taken covid seriously he would have got help and lived. Congrats you died of a "fake" virus.
- How many people on that plane have covid now? If he was that sick, the air filtration and masks can only do so much.
- I'm an adult and I would be super traumatized by this. I feel bad for those kids and I hope they get some counseling.
- The airline industry needs to rethink their messaging and screening procedures because who will want to fly now?
Annnnd immediately some clown goes for the money grab. Id that's the case I'm gonna be suing like maaaaad. I dont GAF about you clowns. I are about getting paid, and this presents the perfect opportunity. Cha ching! Who's next
You could easily have gotten off the plane and NOT reboarded in New Orleans had you felt so strongly about the lack of cleaning. THAT would have made the BEST of a bad situation. And United would likely have gladly helped you rebook. But I'm sure that was too inconvenient for you.
First off, while it's a tragic event and my sympathy is with the family, it is egregious that they flew while he was knowingly positive with COVID. I honestly would hope the family would have their traveling privileges suspended though I get that it's not a very sympathetic thing to do. Honestly it's that family's fault that they exposed other passengers to COVID potentially and furthermore that they exposed others to the tragedy of this...
First off, while it's a tragic event and my sympathy is with the family, it is egregious that they flew while he was knowingly positive with COVID. I honestly would hope the family would have their traveling privileges suspended though I get that it's not a very sympathetic thing to do. Honestly it's that family's fault that they exposed other passengers to COVID potentially and furthermore that they exposed others to the tragedy of this man dying on the flight. Again I get this is a harsh take but if they knew he had COVID and still flew...
Second, clearly United didn't handle the aftermath very well. This passenger's demands seem ridiculous (even if they had taken them off the flight or done a thorough cleaning, the exposure to COVID had already taken place) and they would still have to quarantine (or should) in any case regardless of United's cleaning practices. However, it seems irresponsible to not do more than a simple wipe down of the seat.
While I understand lower level folks don't always have the right training to perfectly handle these situations, perhaps this means a known COVID positive passenger on an active flight segment should require more senior United involvement.
My biggest takeaway between this case, the Hawaii United passengers, and the Jetblue passenger earlier in the year is that flying still carries risk given the number of people in the world who are incredibly selfish and not taking this pandemic seriously enough.
Hope your time at Disney World was worth it. Maybe you should have taken a hint NOT to go to a theme park given that the big one in your backyard is closed.
Give me a break. Sounds like someone just wants to offset the cost of their family vacation to Disney World by claiming trauma.
I would have preferred for the person requesting compensation to have dropped dead. Until he can show that United knew the deceased had Covid prior to boarding, I would hope they have no case. Shameless cash grab. Go after the widow, or better yet, out of a window. I hope airlines add some verbiage to their CoC about this to avoid similar scumsuckers.