At the moment, perhaps the most interesting airline “battle” in the United States is between American and United at Chicago O’Hare Airport (ORD). While both airlines have hubs there, the dynamics have changed. A decade ago, American had the advantage, while United has been growing there considerably ever since, putting American into a distant second place position.
American now wants to reclaim market share in Chicago, so it’s adding a lot of flights, which in turn, is causing United to add flights as well. United CEO Scott Kirby has indicated that he’s “drawing a line in the sand,” and will not allow American to grow its market share percentage at the airport any further. Kirby also insists that United’s growth in Chicago is profitable, while American will likely lose $1 billion in Chicago in 2026.
Along those lines, here are the latest comments about the Chicago situation, from another United executive…
In this post:
United CFO mocks American’s “temporary” Chicago hub
United CFO Michael Leskinen spoke at the Barclays 43rd Annual Industrial Select Conference this week. In addition to making some interesting comments about airline mergers, he also talked about the battle that’s brewing in Chicago, as flagged by View from the Wing.
He was asked questions by Barclays Analyst Brandon Oglenski about the situation in Chicago:
“Well, Mike, there’s been a little bit of maybe a dust up, if you want to call it that, in hometown Chicago between you and another airline that maybe has a hub there. Can you talk to us about some context of what’s occurred here and…”
Leskinen responded by saying:
“Temporarily, they have a hub.”
So he was asked to speak about United’s perspective on Chicago, and how this is all going to play out. Leskinen responded as follows:
“It’s our hometown. I mean this is where we’re headquartered. This is where a lot of the brand loyal customers were winning corporate customers, my neighborhood, everybody is switching from American to United and they’re doing it because we have a differentiated product, we have differentiated service. And so yes, there’s a lot of capacity being added to Chicago, but not all capacity is created equal. And so not only do we have a better hard product, but we have the schedule and we have the connectivity, we have the clubs.”
“So they can fly around some empty airplanes, and there is some gate calculus around that. And so that puts us in a spot where for the long term, we have to protect our gate positions. It’s going to be a modest impact to our level of profitability. We’ve given you guidance. I gave you an update in guidance today. So you can see that it’s not leaving much of a mark at this time. So I feel really confident in our strategy. We are making money in Chicago. We made a nice profit last year in Chicago. The other guy that’s adding so much capacity is not. There’s pretty good math out there. You can create with public data to get at that. And so really, you should talk to them. It’s an irrational strategy to accelerate their losses.”
United also released a brutal presentation about the relative competitive situation in Chicago, as shared by JonNYC. As you can see, United claims it’ll continue to be profitable in Chicago, while it predicts American will lose $952 million at the airport in 2026.
United management is doing a great job, but…
United’s management team deserves a ton of credit for all the changes they’ve made in recent years. I have huge respect for Kirby, and think he’s one of the all-around best airline CEOs. It’s fantastic to see an airline that’s so focused, with such a clear vision for what it wants to be.
Now, we know that United is trying to increasingly move into Delta’s league financially, and the airline has made good progress. Admittedly the airline still has a long way to go, because when you take out United’s roughly $1 billion annual labor advantage (due to contracts not having been ratified yet), United is basically right between American and Delta when it comes to profitability.
All that being said, I have to say, the extent to which United management talks smack is a little unbecoming, in my opinion. It’s of course great to be able to lay out your vision and strategy (something American management could learn a thing or two about), but you can do that without coming across as a jerk, in my opinion.
For example, calling American’s hub in Chicago “temporary,” really? Even in its second place spot, American very much has a hub in Chicago, and will continue to have a hub in Chicago, even if things stay as they are now. Or to reference how American can “fly around some empty airplanes?” Is that necessary?
United management basically talks as if they’re on a reality TV show, in terms of seeing how much shade they can throw at competitors. Admittedly United management has accomplishments to be proud of, but I think many of us could do without the hubris.
What makes this whole situation so sad is that American management just isn’t able to lay out its vision, so it almost makes United’s narration of what’s going on a bit more pathetic. They’re basically kicking someone while they’re already down, and then bragging about it and calling them names.
Nothing would make me happier than to see American actually putting up a fight again, and being a formidable competitor to United. But that’s simply not happening until there are some major changes.
Anyway, it’ll be a very interesting year in Chicago. United executives claim American will lose $1 billion in Chicago, while American executives insist it won’t be nearly that bad. So let’s see where the numbers actually fall. American’s CEO insists that 2026 will be a better year financially, so if the airline does lose anywhere close to $1 billion in Chicago, that doesn’t have great implications.
Bottom line
2026 is a year where American and United are battling it out in Chicago, as American tries to gain market share, and United tries to defend its position. There’s no denying that United has the upper hand, though it’s anyone’s guess how bad the situation really is for American (in terms of United executives claiming that American will lose $1 billion there this year).
One thing I can’t help but comment on is the endless trash talking from United executives about American. In the latest example of this, United’s CFO has said that Chicago is a “temporary hub” for American, and that American will simply “fly around some empty airplanes.” Of course this is only the latest example of this kind of talk — in the past, United’s CEO has also said that American is totally cooked, and has no chance of succeeding.
What do you make of this Chicago situation, and the comments of United’s CFO?
Kirby specializes in being pathetic. He has a giant chip on his shoulder about being booted out by American and he'll sink to any depth to speak or do ill regarding AA. The guy spews such insanely unrealistic blather on a surprisingly frequent basis that you literally can't trust what he says. However, he has followed the path Oscar set the airline on, which has led to financial success.
UAL market cap is almost 4x what it was when Kirby became UA CEO, the debt rating is better than it has been in 24 years, UA net debt is lower than DAL's and half of AAL's, and UA's fleet has grown by 50% since he came to UA.
and it is still down from what it was at its peak last year.
UA still can't turn all of that size into greater profits or revenues than DL.
Now, why is that, rebel?
UA is big but it is not better. It is the airline equivalent of someone that needs Ozempic.
UA is doing great. $3.5B net profit, $37B market cap, leading in operational metrics, NPS soaring and 120 new airplanes coming this year.
Did that DL A220 delivery slowdown for Air Asia 339 delivery slots deal ever happen? Riyadh Air 787 delivery slots? I thought if DL wanted 78Xs they would get them whenever they needed them, 2031? NYC -3% market share. Yikes!
I'm trying to remember when Kirby was actually wrong.
This is all fun and dandy until consumer spending drops. Cyclical companies have cycles, and US airlines have become banks (cyclicals). I’m entertained by Kirby, but I’d rather not hear him talk in general. The mileage move UAL made today speaks louder than anything, and it is giving me a chance to see if Alaska/American provide a better loyalty experience.
I've been an LA-based AA loyalist for about 5-6 years, and occasionally I think I might do a status match and give United a try, but honestly I always gravitate towards the underdog and this kind of smack talk from the United CEO is a huge turnoff, so the whole thing makes me double-down on AA.
Kirby still has butt burn from getting his ass kicked to the street at AA, so he loathes them.
As Tim D correctly points out - the CRJ 550s are a huge money pit, operating in markets that need at most 2-3 frequencies a day.
Just returned from a roundtrip to Hawaii - outbound on a UA 777 with their infamous 2-4-2 seats in F. Food absolutely inedible, but crew was pleasant.
Returned...
Kirby still has butt burn from getting his ass kicked to the street at AA, so he loathes them.
As Tim D correctly points out - the CRJ 550s are a huge money pit, operating in markets that need at most 2-3 frequencies a day.
Just returned from a roundtrip to Hawaii - outbound on a UA 777 with their infamous 2-4-2 seats in F. Food absolutely inedible, but crew was pleasant.
Returned on AA 772 - pleasant flight, crew was fine and food was acceptable.
If Scotty boy wants a fight, why doesn't he go great guns on DFW? He knows AA will hand him his ass.
Last time I flew on American, the flight was delayed by an hour and I finally get on and one of the flight attendants didn't even have his tie on. Pretty weak.
Your anecdotes mean nothing in an industry that is so large that there are actual statistics that measure performance.
and yet AA operates 19% more mainline domestic flights than UA - DL operates 7% more mainline flights than AA.
AA operates 32% more total domestic flights - including RJs - than UA.
Although AA operates a lower percentage of on-time flights, the difference in on-time between the two is just 3.5% which means that...
Your anecdotes mean nothing in an industry that is so large that there are actual statistics that measure performance.
and yet AA operates 19% more mainline domestic flights than UA - DL operates 7% more mainline flights than AA.
AA operates 32% more total domestic flights - including RJs - than UA.
Although AA operates a lower percentage of on-time flights, the difference in on-time between the two is just 3.5% which means that AA operates more total on-time flights than UA.
As the 2nd most on-time carrier, DL operates 2% more flights on-time than UA and both DL and WN operate more flights than DL - so your chances of getting an on-time flight on DL and then WN are better than on UA.
Weak is thinking the airline industry is defined by any person's experiences.
Neither the article, nor my comment, have anything to do with Delta... speaking of weak thinking...
of course it doesn't discuss Delta.
and yet you made a statement that is anecdotal at best and means nothing.
In the appropriate context, AA operates more on-time flights than UA and DL operates more ontime flights than UA.
If you don't want someone to insert the right context, then don't make statements without it.
It’s not like UA is wrong on the facts, and their trash talk is getting that across very effectively.
As a corporate peon carrier, UA is far less crappy than all other options in most of the US. Profitable personal travel follows corporate b/c miles and status. At least that how it worked for my family within the US - free Economy Plus, club and priority support was compelling.
I’m no fan of UA -...
It’s not like UA is wrong on the facts, and their trash talk is getting that across very effectively.
As a corporate peon carrier, UA is far less crappy than all other options in most of the US. Profitable personal travel follows corporate b/c miles and status. At least that how it worked for my family within the US - free Economy Plus, club and priority support was compelling.
I’m no fan of UA - kinda glad to not be tied to their ecosystem any more - but if I must fly a US carrier, UA is very much my least bad choice, and I won’t fly AA unless the other option is swimming across the Caribbean.
Has there ever been a bigger mistake in airline history than AAL choosing Isom and sending Kirby packing?
how conveniently you forget all of the mistakes Kirby made at US including the DL-US slot swap which handed NYC to DL on a silver platter.
and that wasn't all. Kirby was all-in on the stupid stuff that Parker did and then realized because he reads all airline earnings transcripts at what all AA and UA were doing wrong by learning from DL - which he continues to do.
Kirby is not the saint that...
how conveniently you forget all of the mistakes Kirby made at US including the DL-US slot swap which handed NYC to DL on a silver platter.
and that wasn't all. Kirby was all-in on the stupid stuff that Parker did and then realized because he reads all airline earnings transcripts at what all AA and UA were doing wrong by learning from DL - which he continues to do.
Kirby is not the saint that you want to make him to be. He has learned from his mistakes but those who know haven't forgotten his history as much as you and Kirby himself want to pretend he was always oppressed and couldn't do what he really wanted to do which was turn AA, US or HP around.
Apparently, he learned from his mistakes if they were his because he and his team have completely turned United around, and now it's just a matter of time.
none of which changes that he made those mistakes which gave competitors advantages which they have not lost.
You still can't grasp that nobody is doubting that UA has had a huge reversal but, not only are AA and WN capable of doing the same reversal, but UA is simply not as great as you or its leaders think it is.
UA is run by a bunch of insecure, testosterone fueled adolescents that are...
none of which changes that he made those mistakes which gave competitors advantages which they have not lost.
You still can't grasp that nobody is doubting that UA has had a huge reversal but, not only are AA and WN capable of doing the same reversal, but UA is simply not as great as you or its leaders think it is.
UA is run by a bunch of insecure, testosterone fueled adolescents that are not capable of thinking far enough down the road to realize the flaws in their own strategies.
He was not the CEO at AA like he is at UA, but nice try.
feel free to let us know who had a gun to Scott Kirby's head when he wrote the memo to US employees pitching the DL/US slot swap.
Does it not occur to you that part of the reason UA doesn't mess w/ DL is because Kirby still has nightmares about how badly DL took advantage of him in getting 1/4 of all the slots at LGA for the mere sum of $60 million net...
feel free to let us know who had a gun to Scott Kirby's head when he wrote the memo to US employees pitching the DL/US slot swap.
Does it not occur to you that part of the reason UA doesn't mess w/ DL is because Kirby still has nightmares about how badly DL took advantage of him in getting 1/4 of all the slots at LGA for the mere sum of $60 million net of the AA-US merger?
If you'd crawl out from under Scotty's desk long enough to see the sunlight, it would be obvious that lots of people have made bad decisions but part of the process of growing from them is to learn some humility. Kirby has never learned humility and continues to prove that he makes mistakes that are just as dumb today as he did when he was at HP and US and then AA.
If he didn't believe what he was doing at AA was right, he could have and should have left - but he didn't.
and now he is doing the same dumb things he did while at AA, HP and US but now has a whole lot more assets in his hands to screw up.
And DL's warning shot to UA with LAX-HKG and LAX-ORD will be repeated if UA allows this mess in Chicago to spill out and negatively impact DL's network. WN can do whatever it wants and AA can fight back but I can assure you DL isn't going to allow Kirby's childish antics to harm DL.
and I still think that it will be UA that will blink from the massive deterioration in its revenue and operational performance as a result of all of this
DL LAX-ORD/HKG? Almost as scary as MSP-OGG 3x/week. Too funny.
seriously?
UA doesn't fly MSP-OGG.
UA does fly LAX-ORD/HKG and DL decided to also fly it.
again, Kirby clearly has nightmares about how badly he got taken to the cleaners by DL in the DCA/LGA slot deal.
DL isn't the least bit interested in seeing UA's ORD power grab negatively impacting DL in the Midwest or anywhere else because of this.
Every successive capacity addition by UA makes it harder and harder to...
seriously?
UA doesn't fly MSP-OGG.
UA does fly LAX-ORD/HKG and DL decided to also fly it.
again, Kirby clearly has nightmares about how badly he got taken to the cleaners by DL in the DCA/LGA slot deal.
DL isn't the least bit interested in seeing UA's ORD power grab negatively impacting DL in the Midwest or anywhere else because of this.
Every successive capacity addition by UA makes it harder and harder to contain the damage.
There will be alot more LAX-ORD/HKG routes given that DL can clearly get what it wants from Kirby.
you love to talk about the future as if it has already happened but let's see who gets beat up in all of this; as much as you want to believe it will be AA, you might be surprised to find out that UA shoots itself in the foot as much if not more than it hurts anyone else.
This is the Pacific and UA hub (ORD) to UA hub (LAX) we are talking about. Best of luck to DL in their quest for west coast/Pacific relevance and finding some wifi coverage.
yes, the Pacific - which DL serves more of from the Midwest than UA. In fact, DL has service to 2 cities in E. Asia from MSP and 3 from DTW. UA has precisely one city it serves in E. Asia from ORD.
as for WiFi, DL has 900 mainline and hundreds of RJs that have high speed WiFi serving routes all over the world today.
UA has, what 12 mainline aircraft with Starlink in operation today?
Ben is right. UA is all smack talk while failing to deliver.
UA has almost twice as many TPAC flights and the two airlines have been heading in opposite directions in the Pacific.
TPAC destinations
2016/2025:
UA: 23/32
DL: 15/8
AA: 8/7
we get that... but we are talking about Chicago, a Midwest hub.
UA's presence in Chicago and the Midwest is, wait, wait, INFERIOR to DL's from its dual Midwest hubs. UA serves just ONE destination from ORD while DL serves TWO from MSP and THREE from MSP.
I know reality is hard for you to face but drawing in a million other side arguments doesn't work.
ORD & DEN v DTW, MSP & SLC. No contest.
well, actually there is.
because all of those hubs are part of the same airlines.
DL generated $4.3 billion more revenue and $1.65 billion more profit.
DL's network clearly delivers what no other US or any other airline on the planet can deliver.
DL has ATL, the best domestic hub in the world, and a leading position in NYC along with UA with EWR. The rest of the network is fine but meh.
and yet they all work together for each carrier.
and NW, not DL developed the dual Midwest hub strategy that has worked better than any other airline's Midwest strategy including AA and/or UA at ORD alone.
Deregulation happened at the same time for AA, DL, UA and WN and every other carrier.
DL has simply done a better job of building the highest revenue, highest profit airline and business in the almost 50 years...
and yet they all work together for each carrier.
and NW, not DL developed the dual Midwest hub strategy that has worked better than any other airline's Midwest strategy including AA and/or UA at ORD alone.
Deregulation happened at the same time for AA, DL, UA and WN and every other carrier.
DL has simply done a better job of building the highest revenue, highest profit airline and business in the almost 50 years since deregulation.
and DL was #6 largest US airline in 1978, far smaller than AA and UA.
and, most importantly, DL doesn't NOW NEED TO engage in petty catfights because it wants someone out of its hubs.
That ATL hub which DL has turned into the world's largest? DL just outlasted Eastern.
Let's see if UA can do that with AA.
DL did a great job under Richard Anderson, Gil West and Glen Hauenstein with what they had in a grossly mismanaged airline industry. But the brain trust has left the DL building and UA has the best network team in the business. Once UA gets the credit card and loyalty pieces rolling it will be a different story IMO.
TD, "yes, the Pacific - which DL serves more of from the Midwest than UA."
UA owns SFO, the best gateway to the Pacific by far and has LAX. DL has LAX and is a distant 2nd in SEA. As you said, different networks, but keep searching for exceptions that prove the rule.
SFO is not in the Midwest.
ORD IS in the Midwest which is why it is relevant to discuss how well each carrier serves the Midwest from their hubs.
We know it is tough but just admit that UA really is not #1 in something.
DL does a better job of connecting the Midwest to E. Asia than UA does.
go ahead and give us one of your handy dandy like graphics...
SFO is not in the Midwest.
ORD IS in the Midwest which is why it is relevant to discuss how well each carrier serves the Midwest from their hubs.
We know it is tough but just admit that UA really is not #1 in something.
DL does a better job of connecting the Midwest to E. Asia than UA does.
go ahead and give us one of your handy dandy like graphics and tell us how many flights and destinations DL serves to Europe on its own metal from its DTW and MSP hubs vs. what UA serves from ORD on its own metal also to Europe.
You might have to admit that DL does a better job of connecting the Midwest to Europe and beyond than UA does from ORD. We know how poor of a job AA does but who is #2 matters.
and you WANT TO BELIEVE that DL's best days are behind and yet DL still outperforms UA in revenue and profit performance and runs a better operation.
Actual facts paint a different picture than your hopes that UA will overtake DL
TD, "SFO is not in the Midwest."
No, it is perfectly positioned on the west coast with enormous GDP which is why it is the best Pacific hub in the world which UA dominates. You don't seem to understand how hubs work.
SFO is not in the Midwest.
You simply are incapable of admitting the obvious.
Get your head out from under Scotty's desk and see the world that everyone else can see.
Poor LTD.
Didn't they forcefully kick a passenger out and bloodied his nose while doing so? What else can you expect?
Quite frankly, one might think that even Kirby wants Isom gone. I think they are having fun with the position that they are in and want to be. All of this smack talk is part of the game. The fact that Isom just continues to take multiple jabs to the chin at this stage shocks me that he's still at the helm.
The smack talk from execs comes from the top, and clearly reflects the corp culture under Kirby. He’s getting gross.
Generally, I find this type of ego brandishing to be…. An ugly reflection of US Andro culture, and especially enjoyable to watch when they eventually fail.
@Ben, if you think this is new, you haven't been in aviation very long. This type of competitor bantering goes way back. Herb Kelleher, Bob Crandall, Frank Lorenzo, Gordon Bethune, Frank Borman, etc. This approach has two purposes, 1) Fire up the employees. Let them think they're in a battle, be proud of their accomplishments, and striving to do better to take the advantage. 2) Put the competition on notice, they are in a battle....
@Ben, if you think this is new, you haven't been in aviation very long. This type of competitor bantering goes way back. Herb Kelleher, Bob Crandall, Frank Lorenzo, Gordon Bethune, Frank Borman, etc. This approach has two purposes, 1) Fire up the employees. Let them think they're in a battle, be proud of their accomplishments, and striving to do better to take the advantage. 2) Put the competition on notice, they are in a battle. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. It's just words.
And then there's Tim. I can't believe he brought up again how many destinations that DL serves in East Asia, compared to UA in ORD. DL wasn't discussed, nor was DTW/MSP, nor was East Asia, nor the number of destinations served vs DL, since the conversation is about AA and UA. Can you just ban him for good like everyone else has?
first, Ben has a pretty good knowledge of the airline industry. He knows the difference between talking smack about competitors and achieving results. UA is trash talking everyone and he and everyone else that has their eyes even slightly open can see that it will be impossible for UA to achieve a fraction of what it says it will do, leaving its competitors in a better position than UA
second, if UA was seriously about...
first, Ben has a pretty good knowledge of the airline industry. He knows the difference between talking smack about competitors and achieving results. UA is trash talking everyone and he and everyone else that has their eyes even slightly open can see that it will be impossible for UA to achieve a fraction of what it says it will do, leaving its competitors in a better position than UA
second, if UA was seriously about rallying employees, it would pay them industry standard or better wages. They aren't stupid and they aren't going to battle as long as they can't see benefits from their efforts.
third, the competition is in battle mode as well but they are winning w/o trash talking the competition.
fourth, Ben and I have been in social media long enough to know that UA fans are some of the most arrogant on the planet and become insufferable when anyone says anything negative about their company.
For you to even suggest that Ben should cut off someone that accurately points out that DL has a far stronger position from not just one but two Midwest hubs to E. Asia proves my point.
DL simply has a better and stronger Midwest strategy and they dominate the region while UA fights to try to eliminate a competitor that is going nowhere - and DL just laps out even larger profits at DTW and MSP.
if you could step away from the koolaid long enough to see the big picture, you would see how ridiculous you are.
and yet, UA clearly buys a social media presence which is why they are so irrational. those of us that can see the industry for what it is can see that UA is set up to fail the more it trash talks everyone else.
TD says, "if UA was seriously about rallying employees"
United Net Promoter Scores (NPS) are soaring so UA must be "rallying employees' despite how you wish it weren't so.
TD says, "if UA was seriously about rallying employees"
United Net Promoter Scores (NPS) are soaring so UA must be "rallying employees' despite how you wish it weren't so.
You are seriously as circus monkey. Endless words over and over repeating the same de-bunked tired rhetoric.
Gordon Bethune on United Airlines in the 1990s, "United is being run like an insane asylum and the inmates have the keys to the medicine cabinet."
Of Gordon on TWA, "“You’re only as smart as your dumbest competitor — therefore we’re only as smart as TWA.”
Herb also on UA discussing Shuttle by United, "“They’re trying to...
You are seriously as circus monkey. Endless words over and over repeating the same de-bunked tired rhetoric.
Gordon Bethune on United Airlines in the 1990s, "United is being run like an insane asylum and the inmates have the keys to the medicine cabinet."
Of Gordon on TWA, "“You’re only as smart as your dumbest competitor — therefore we’re only as smart as TWA.”
Herb also on UA discussing Shuttle by United, "“They’re trying to compete with us on price without changing their cost structure. That’s like trying to compete with a Volkswagen with a Cadillac and still make money.”
Richard Branson on the US carriers, "Our strategy is simple — find where the incumbents are weakest and attack.”
this is way harsher than anything UA execs are saying about American today.
and you do realize that Bethune turned CO around, a carrier that was horribly mismanaged; but CO hit a plateau and ended up being absorbed into UA which, as you note, made plenty of strategic mistakes in the eyes of others.
rebel thinks that improvement means that employees have all bought in. UA's baggage handling is worst in the industry. UA was horribly mismanaged for a long time and has improved - but that hardly...
and you do realize that Bethune turned CO around, a carrier that was horribly mismanaged; but CO hit a plateau and ended up being absorbed into UA which, as you note, made plenty of strategic mistakes in the eyes of others.
rebel thinks that improvement means that employees have all bought in. UA's baggage handling is worst in the industry. UA was horribly mismanaged for a long time and has improved - but that hardly wins it is best in class.
neither rebel or dtwnyc can really say UA for what it is - which is improved from its lowest points but still not leading in anything but size while being run by a bunch of combative, testosterone driven adolescents that are permanently bruised from being passed over at AA.
"neither rebel or dtwnyc can really say UA for what it is"
UAL is the second most valuable airline in the world.
second.
not first.
and yet we would never know that UA is actually number 2 from 99% of what you and the rest of the UA fan club write.
and there is a big gap between DAL and UAL
and, because DAL doesn't engage in petty fights to try to rectify years of strategic failures, DAL's lead is not in threat.
Have you seen the mass exodus of execs at DL including MVP, Glen Hauenstein? Yikes! It's just a matter of time.
DL has never been about any one or even a handful of people. DL operates as a team. The successor to Hauenstein has been at DL longer than Hauenstein and has worked under Hauenstein the entire time Hauenstein has been there.
That is being played out over and over.
No one works forever. Healthy, planned transitions take place in well-run companies.
none of which changes the stupidity of what UA is doing at...
DL has never been about any one or even a handful of people. DL operates as a team. The successor to Hauenstein has been at DL longer than Hauenstein and has worked under Hauenstein the entire time Hauenstein has been there.
That is being played out over and over.
No one works forever. Healthy, planned transitions take place in well-run companies.
none of which changes the stupidity of what UA is doing at ORD or their "funny math" that shows UA doing great - but not as good as DL at ATL - but AA losing all kinds of money.
People can see through it all which is that it is nothing more than a testosterone, ego driven exercise in which UA will never achieve what it seeks - which is to push AA out of ORD as a hub carrier.
And yet DL's operational performance has steadily declined as Richard Anderson, Stephen Gorman, Gil West, Don Mitacek & Glen Hauenstein have left 68 year old Ed Bastian behind with no heir apparent. Who can blame them?
"and you do realize that Bethune turned CO around, a carrier that was horribly mismanaged; but CO hit a plateau and ended up being absorbed into UA which, as you note, made plenty of strategic mistakes in the eyes of others."
What's the point of your statement? This has nothing to do with the topic. Airlines CEOs talk trash about their competitors. This is not new. That is the article. Are you saying the Bethune's...
"and you do realize that Bethune turned CO around, a carrier that was horribly mismanaged; but CO hit a plateau and ended up being absorbed into UA which, as you note, made plenty of strategic mistakes in the eyes of others."
What's the point of your statement? This has nothing to do with the topic. Airlines CEOs talk trash about their competitors. This is not new. That is the article. Are you saying the Bethune's rhetoric is justifies because he "turned CO around" but Kirby et al, are not?
"UA's baggage handling is worst in the industry." Why are we talking about baggage handling? You entire second paragraph is an incoherent collections of words, not related to each other or anything on the topic.
"neither rebel or dtwnyc can really say UA for what it is - which is improved from its lowest points but still not leading in anything but size while being run by a bunch of combative, testosterone driven adolescents that are permanently bruised from being passed over at AA."
Again, how is this related to the topic? Why do you always turn something about United into a pissing contest with Delta. Nobody else is making that comparison.
Trash talking and actually delivering are two very different things.
Bethune turned CO around but he failed to secure an independent future for CO; it is now part of UA which, as much as rebel wants to believe otherwise does not even come in #2 in many operational metrics.
and yes, it actually does matter about how well a company does now when it starts trash talking competitors.
on many metrics, AA and UA are...
Trash talking and actually delivering are two very different things.
Bethune turned CO around but he failed to secure an independent future for CO; it is now part of UA which, as much as rebel wants to believe otherwise does not even come in #2 in many operational metrics.
and yes, it actually does matter about how well a company does now when it starts trash talking competitors.
on many metrics, AA and UA are right next to each other. UA simply not a better run airline than AA.
In the latest DOT report, DL is #2 in YTD 2025 ontime, UA is #6 and on and on it goes down to baggage handling where UA is at the bottom of the list.
it absolutely matters about what a company delivers compared to what its execs talk about.
it is NOT normal for well-run companies to have execs trash talk competitors and underperform so many of them on so many metrics.
Employees, analysts, and social media gets it no matter how much the paid UA social media warriors want to believe otherwise.
UA has delivered over the last ten years and there is no comparison between their performance and AA's.
Richard Anderson talked plenty of smack. He famously said he didn't consider United as competition back in the day, and they weren't much of a competitor back then. There is a long airline tradition of it.
UA is still not a competitor to DL. Anderson was right.
When UA pays all of its people market wages, then we can do an apples to apples comparison.
You would do well to spend less time supporting UA's trash talking leadership and more time explaining why UA continues to trail DL in profits given that DL flies less ASMs. There isn't a thing that DL does that UA could not have also done or...
UA is still not a competitor to DL. Anderson was right.
When UA pays all of its people market wages, then we can do an apples to apples comparison.
You would do well to spend less time supporting UA's trash talking leadership and more time explaining why UA continues to trail DL in profits given that DL flies less ASMs. There isn't a thing that DL does that UA could not have also done or still does not do. DL just does it better - and still manages to set the standard for airline industry pay and profit sharing.
Wall Street disagrees and smack talking is OK for DL? Poor LTD!
I don't know why I bother.
The marginal differences between the carriers various metrics are not meaningfully significant and don't necessarily affect the bottom line, as you are insinuating.
Once again, the question was, "talk is a bit extreme at this point, no?" Answer is no.
you really SHOULD NOT bother if you don't know the difference in 2nd and 6th place or lower in a group of 10
and Wall Street DOES see the difference which is why UA still trails DL in market cap even though UA flies 10% more ASMs but earns just 2/3 of what DL earns
UAL 2nd most valuable airline in the world and it's only a matter of time.
a matter of time until it falls to number 3 because of its incessant stupidity in picking fights with competitors?
of course, UA will fall and fall hard.
UAL market cap is headed in the other direction. Q1 2026 EPS in the top of the range that is well in excess of Q1 2025. It's just a matter of time.
TD's ramblings are like the president. He bounces from subject to subject, sometimes unrelated, making random points. Makes absolutely no sense to me. Babble, babble, babble..... RARELY is there anything worth reading. Most of the time I just skip over his crap.
"...Ben and I have been in social media long enough to know that UA fans are some of the most arrogant on the planet and become insufferable when anyone says anything negative about their company."
Oh, the irony.
I tout reality. UA's paid fan nuts push daisies as if it is reality.
You need only read the post above yours to realize the issue.
DAL is guiding to a larger increase in Q1 EPS than UAL.
LUV is guiding to a significant turnaround and profit that it did not post last 1st quarter.
The gap between DAL's industry leading earnings and UAL's is not narrowing.
and all of this smack talk about...
I tout reality. UA's paid fan nuts push daisies as if it is reality.
You need only read the post above yours to realize the issue.
DAL is guiding to a larger increase in Q1 EPS than UAL.
LUV is guiding to a significant turnaround and profit that it did not post last 1st quarter.
The gap between DAL's industry leading earnings and UAL's is not narrowing.
and all of this smack talk about ORD does not involve the first quarter anyway.
and we're still waiting for you to tell us how much UAL guided to before its 2nd and 3rd quarter underperformance.
I can tell you. UAL missed revenue estimates by $170 million + in those two quarters.
and remember that UALs' earnings are still boosted by not paying industry average compensation - and that will fall when UA employees quit drinking the Kirby Koolaid
UAL is guiding to $12-$14/share compared to $10.62 in 2025 or +22% to the midpoint.
DAL is guiding to $6.50-$7.50/share compared to $5.82 in 2025 or +20% to the midpoint.
you still can't grasp that the first quarter is not in question because all of this excess capacity doesn't hit until later this year.
and UA has missed its revenue and EPS estimates multiple times.
What a company delivers matters far more than what they say.
THAT is the whole theme of this discussion.
UA didn't pull their guidance last year like DL did, but by all means make your case with some evidence for a change.
You simply saying something carries no weight. Remember, $1B in DL MRO profits, Riyadh 787 positions, DL getting aircraft whenever they want them, DL would never relinquish their couple month NYC market share lead to name a few of your bizarre and erroneous assertions/predictions?
Funny but not compelling in the least.
American brought a knife, so United brought a gun. That's the Chicago Way.
and DL and WN are using strategic nuclear weapons on other parts of UA's network.
It really is not all about Chicago as much as you want to believe.
It is all about Chicago. It's where I was born. It's where I graduated from its world-class university. It's where I live. Chicago is therefore the only place that matters. Now go back to sucking off Ed Bastian, you Biscoff-breathed degenerate.
no, Chicago is a hub. and that is what will make or break this shootout. UA is not going to steal the share AA has or grow the local market enough.
UA is hurting itself and its other hubs.
You simply prove you are incapable of intelligent thought in your deranged rants.
but you do set up others to prove how wrong you are...
TD says, "UA is not going to steal the share AA has or grow the local market enough."
UA has steadily and profoundly grown share at ORD since Kirby et al arrived ten years ago. Just look at JonNYC's charts and the DOT data.
Past performance is not indicative of future results.
No, UA is not at all assured that it will gain more LOCAL Chicago share just because it is adding a bunch of short haul markets on high cost regional jets that have no local Chicago market potential.
This is all about UA trying to gain enough gates to force AA out of Chicago but that is very unlikely to happen.
Flooding Chicago with a bunch...
Past performance is not indicative of future results.
No, UA is not at all assured that it will gain more LOCAL Chicago share just because it is adding a bunch of short haul markets on high cost regional jets that have no local Chicago market potential.
This is all about UA trying to gain enough gates to force AA out of Chicago but that is very unlikely to happen.
Flooding Chicago with a bunch of flights that have no local market potential does nothing to change the local market.
"You simply prove you are incapable of intelligent thought in your deranged rants." Were you looking in the mirror when you said that?
While ORD is being way over the top with Chicago bantering, it does point out an important fact. No one, and I mean no one, truly cares about Minneapolis, Detroit, or Atlanta. If they do, it's because they have to transfer there. NYC, Chicago, DC, LA, SF, parts of Texas are where things actually happen in the world. Maybe Minot, ND, I think Delta has a big presence there in the oil rich lands.
It’s important to consider who the smack talk is aimed at.
(Hint: the possibility of Wall Street pressure on AA to stop losing money in Chicago…)
Wall Street is not dumb. They know that market share battles hurt everyone involved.
LUV is the best performing airline stock of the past year and multiple other timeframes within the year.
UAL's outperformance vs. DAL is over.
every other airline has lower market cap than DAL and UAL's market cap relative to DAL has shrunk compared to last year
Investors and analysts are no more dumb than UA employees.
TD says, "Wall Street is not dumb."
UAL's market cap is 4x AAL's and has been steadily gaining on DAL.
false.
UAL's market reached a peak of 85% of DAL's but is lower than that now.
and you still can't address the reality that DAL generates higher profits despite flying 10% less ASMs; there isn't a thing that DAL does that UAL could not have also done but UA chases market share battles while DL further diversifies its revenue stream to include more sources that have higher margins than flying people and cargo
Your exception (peak) proves the rule and multiple people have addressed it ad nauseam. DL had a lead on operation performance and credit card/loyalty front that UA has closed. UA has taken more risk with aircraft orders in order to take share now for profits later. See AMZN. It's just a matter of time.
you do nothing but pull out made up and exception stats to prove how great UA is doing - and yet it is absolutely factual that UAL is worth less as a percentage of DAL's market cap than it was in the past.
The mere fact that you argue that 80% shouldn't count because 85% was an exception shows how bankrupt your arguments are.
UA flies more capacity than DL and makes less money while...
you do nothing but pull out made up and exception stats to prove how great UA is doing - and yet it is absolutely factual that UAL is worth less as a percentage of DAL's market cap than it was in the past.
The mere fact that you argue that 80% shouldn't count because 85% was an exception shows how bankrupt your arguments are.
UA flies more capacity than DL and makes less money while DL does things that UA could have been doing or is doing.
as has been shown to you multiple times, UA is a much less efficient user of the resources entrusted to it and you cling to the roses up your backside about the future because you can't accept that UA is nowhere near going to challenge DL with stupid stuff like what is going on in Chicago.
TD, "you do nothing but pull out made up and exception stats"
Perfect projection. NYC market share, DL MRO, NickW, Riyadh Air, 2031 to name just a few of your fantasies. Too funny.
I think it's funny. Not unbecoming at all.
UA roasted Southwest in Denver for years, and duly demolished Southwest there - one provokes UA at their peril.
first, WN became the largest local domestic carrier at DEN after its rapid buildup post 9/11 when the legacies - including UA - were losing boatloads of money and were largely in chapter 11. The fact that WN achieved what it did in a historic UA hub shows how UA has done exactly what AA did.
second, WN still has about 30% traffic share in DEN and higher in the local market; it connects fewer...
first, WN became the largest local domestic carrier at DEN after its rapid buildup post 9/11 when the legacies - including UA - were losing boatloads of money and were largely in chapter 11. The fact that WN achieved what it did in a historic UA hub shows how UA has done exactly what AA did.
second, WN still has about 30% traffic share in DEN and higher in the local market; it connects fewer passengers than UA does. UA has clawed back alot of share it lost but done so by building their hub far more than taking share from WN.
and third, let's see how WN's share does not just in DEN but across their network as their assigned seats and checked bags initiatives roll out. and if WN moves forward w/ a domestic first class cabin as expected, they will be a much more attractive carrier for a lot of business people that have not been willing to fly WN.
and, finally, UA has trash talked multiple competitors in multiple hubs. There simply is on way they can win all of these contests. If ORD is their sole focus, then it simply makes it easier for WN to grow at DEN. If UA splits its attention between a whole bunch of initiatives, then they are likely to fail to grow their position in any of them.
As if a connecting hub is not an enormous advantage. Too funny.
DEN market share
Nov 2019:
UA+OO: 39%
SW: 29%
Nov 2025:
UA+OO: 50%
SW: 31%
thank you for making my point.
WN has not lost share.
UA has simply grown the size of the DEN airport operation.
WN is still a very sizeable carrier at DEN.
And you still can't grasp that UA cannot fight battles at DEN vs. WN and AA at ORD and generate DL-comparable margins - even if they paid their people the same as AA, DL and WN.
UA's incessant need to try to win...
thank you for making my point.
WN has not lost share.
UA has simply grown the size of the DEN airport operation.
WN is still a very sizeable carrier at DEN.
And you still can't grasp that UA cannot fight battles at DEN vs. WN and AA at ORD and generate DL-comparable margins - even if they paid their people the same as AA, DL and WN.
UA's incessant need to try to win against everyone except for DL makes them highly vulnerable to other carrier competitive attacks and mostly from DL - which is much more measured but, when it strikes, it wins. DL has very few disadvantages to UA but the most notable is west coast to Asia and DL is and will continue to methodically narrow that gap while UA fights with everyone under the sun in every other market.
DL is the biggest beneficiary of UA's stupidity
All evidence to the contrary. UA is growing their fleet and profitability while paying down debt and getting numerous debt rating upgrades. And how about their industry-leading operational performance and NPSs are soaring.
And at what opportunity cost? 2% profit margin in 2024.
https://visualapproach.io/painful-end-to-a-53-year-streak/
AA has a better hard and soft product - UA foods is awful, and domestic first class and Polaris seats are cramped compared to AA's and Flagship. However, UA is far ahead in customer service and employee morale
Charlie says, "AA has a better hard (product)"
Do tell.
United's "Signature Interior" features seatback entertainment systems with Bluetooth connectivity, power outlets at every seat, and larger overhead bins designed to accommodate a roller bag for each passenger is 70% complete and Starlink coming.
AA?
Widebody Business Class Seat Product
American Airlines 133 wide body aircraft
Collins Super Diamond: Boeing 777-200ER, Boeing 787-8, Boeing 787-9
Elevate Ascent: Boeing 787-9
Safran Cirrus II:...
Charlie says, "AA has a better hard (product)"
Do tell.
United's "Signature Interior" features seatback entertainment systems with Bluetooth connectivity, power outlets at every seat, and larger overhead bins designed to accommodate a roller bag for each passenger is 70% complete and Starlink coming.
AA?
Widebody Business Class Seat Product
American Airlines 133 wide body aircraft
Collins Super Diamond: Boeing 777-200ER, Boeing 787-8, Boeing 787-9
Elevate Ascent: Boeing 787-9
Safran Cirrus II: Boeing 777-300ER
Safran Concept D: Boeing 777-200ER, Boeing 787-8
United Airlines 207 int'l wide body aircraft
Safran Optima: Boeing 767, Boeing 777, Boeing 787
Elevate Ascent: Boeing 789s (March 2026)
Perhaps you could, at least, pretend not to be a United employee, Rebel?
Starlink doesn't exist on the UA mainline fleet at this point -- AA has had high speed wifi on every mainline plane for years now.
United still flies the CRJ-200 everywhere out of ORD, AA is entirely dual-class RJs in ORD now.
United "signature interior" is a great marketing tool when it's there but it isn't. It's still very...
Perhaps you could, at least, pretend not to be a United employee, Rebel?
Starlink doesn't exist on the UA mainline fleet at this point -- AA has had high speed wifi on every mainline plane for years now.
United still flies the CRJ-200 everywhere out of ORD, AA is entirely dual-class RJs in ORD now.
United "signature interior" is a great marketing tool when it's there but it isn't. It's still very common to see an old Jetblue style tv on an old Continental 737
But sure. United has more widebodies. American has far more narrowbodies and dual class RJs. United's regional feed relies on the Crj-200 and they just re-upped that contract with skywest
well said, Julie.
and UA really does not have that large of an international operation on a year round basis at ORD.
DL flies to more cities in E. Asia from both DTW and MSP than UA does from ORD.
Actually, UA has started putting Starlink on mainline aircraft and it is accelerating. High speed? Too funny.
Exactly. AA has way better WiFi, both domestically and internationally. I don't care about IFE as I always have my laptop and am working, so I guess it depends on what matters most to you. United CRJs don't have power outlets unlike AA. I give UA a big leg up for international route network out of ORD (plus partners), as AA essentially only flies to LHR now, but still, for me, AA wins over UA every time.
Charlie says, "United CRJs don't have power outlets"
That's incorrect.
All UAX two class RJs have power outlets in first class and nearly half of them have power outlets in economy. More importantly, All UAX two-class RJs except for six CRJ 550s now have Starlink wifi, and their NPSs have doubled since it was installed.
And Charlie, according to AA's own web site there are no power outlets on any of its RJ aircraft? Yikes!
https://www.aa.com/i18n/travel-info/experience/planes/planes.jsp
Rebel
try flying another carrier aside from your employer, United. Just like Charlie said, the CRJ-200s don't have power. I fly United CRJ-200s all the time. They definitely don't have them. They also don't have starlink with no intention of getting it despite the new contract renewal to fly CRJ-200s into the future.
And yes, try reading this site more often.
https://onemileatatime.com/news/american-eagle-regional-jets-new-interiors-power-ports-fast-wi-fi/
you'll also probably enjoy google.com to know the correct website...
Rebel
try flying another carrier aside from your employer, United. Just like Charlie said, the CRJ-200s don't have power. I fly United CRJ-200s all the time. They definitely don't have them. They also don't have starlink with no intention of getting it despite the new contract renewal to fly CRJ-200s into the future.
And yes, try reading this site more often.
https://onemileatatime.com/news/american-eagle-regional-jets-new-interiors-power-ports-fast-wi-fi/
you'll also probably enjoy google.com to know the correct website to go to at aa.com before spouting your wacker dr nonsense
https://www.aa.com/i18n/travel-info/experience/entertainment/wi-fi-and-connectivity.jsp
AA dual class RJs have power and that's what is at ORD. The few that don't will soon.
"UA has started putting Starlink on mainline aircraft and it is accelerating. High speed? Too funny."
Again. UA barely has any mainline with starlink. AA TODAY has high speed wifi on every mainline plane -- free on the vast majority. saying the starlink installation is "accelerating"? sure. When your base is 0 then going to 10 is "accelerating".
You're normally pretty good at using data. Try it for this one and stop acting like a UA employee. It's bad enough that the world is full of diehard blinded Delta fans. United fanboys/employees don't need to be biased and lack data as well.
I like United, but there are simple facts that do matter -- United WILL get to better wifi and better interiors. They aren't there today. AA has been at better wifi for years. AA is all dual class RJs (with power) at ORD. United is not and has no intention of moving to dual class RJs at ORD - they seem to think their customers love the CRJ-200
Julie/Charlie/NickW/TD or whatever your name is today,
I never said UAX CRJ-200s had power and there are only 30 of them. I said two-class RJs (E175s & CRJ-550s) and they ALL have power in FC and almost half have it in economy unlike AA which according to its own web site has ZERO electrical power in any of its RJs. That's almost unbelievable. Is that true?
https://www.aa.com/i18n/travel-info/experience/planes/planes.jsp
And 321 of 327 UAX two-class RJs...
Julie/Charlie/NickW/TD or whatever your name is today,
I never said UAX CRJ-200s had power and there are only 30 of them. I said two-class RJs (E175s & CRJ-550s) and they ALL have power in FC and almost half have it in economy unlike AA which according to its own web site has ZERO electrical power in any of its RJs. That's almost unbelievable. Is that true?
https://www.aa.com/i18n/travel-info/experience/planes/planes.jsp
And 321 of 327 UAX two-class RJs (E175s & CRJ-550s) have Starlink wifi. Now that is HIGH-speed wifi. And Net Promoter Scores DOUBLE with Starlink.
Amazing!
First, the factually incorrect: United does not have power outlets at every seat, even for their newest interiors. Instead, they have 2 outlets per set of 3 seats, even on longhaul aircraft. American, on the other hand, does have power outlets for every seat on the aircraft.
Second, American interiors also have larger overhead bins... That's not unique to United.
Third, excellent work listing the fact that AA has better J seats on the vast...
First, the factually incorrect: United does not have power outlets at every seat, even for their newest interiors. Instead, they have 2 outlets per set of 3 seats, even on longhaul aircraft. American, on the other hand, does have power outlets for every seat on the aircraft.
Second, American interiors also have larger overhead bins... That's not unique to United.
Third, excellent work listing the fact that AA has better J seats on the vast majority of the longhaul fleet. Each of AA's J seat models is a better, more spacious product than the Polaris seat.
Sorry, maybe you missed the far more convenient USB outlets on every new seatback video monitor on mainline because AA doesn't have them. I was referring to RJs on which AA's own web site say none have electrical outlets in any cabin which I find hard to believe. Is that the case? I am sure some of the several different int'l J seats AA offers are comfortable like UA's Polaris seats though product consistency is...
Sorry, maybe you missed the far more convenient USB outlets on every new seatback video monitor on mainline because AA doesn't have them. I was referring to RJs on which AA's own web site say none have electrical outlets in any cabin which I find hard to believe. Is that the case? I am sure some of the several different int'l J seats AA offers are comfortable like UA's Polaris seats though product consistency is important. AA is also reportedly considering Starlink. I think it will become a competitive necessity given the net promoter scores. Time is of the essence though.
I know people's sentiments towards United's speech but honestly it's the roasts like these that garner the most attention. There wouldn't have been as many blogs making multiple posts about an earnings call if there wasn't this much content to cover. Part of the problem is that our society just picks up on clickbait content more.
and yet the race is not in the hearts and minds of social media. It is for paying passengers and profits. AA and UA and every other US airline are for profit companies.
UA is making moves that are dumber and dumber just so they can cripple competitors. UA will lose money flying CRJ 550s - the smallest and most costly aircraft per seat in the US airline fleet - from cities that are too...
and yet the race is not in the hearts and minds of social media. It is for paying passengers and profits. AA and UA and every other US airline are for profit companies.
UA is making moves that are dumber and dumber just so they can cripple competitors. UA will lose money flying CRJ 550s - the smallest and most costly aircraft per seat in the US airline fleet - from cities that are too close to ORD to have any local traffic just so UA can boost the number of flights it operates, in hopes that it will make AA even smaller at ORD.
It is childish, irrational thinking that is damaging to AA and UA and provides nothing of long term benefit for consumers.
DL stays out of it and makes even more money as the real vulnerable carriers retreat from DL hubs and DL grows. Look at DL's growth relative to its competitors and see how much larger DL is relative to B6 and NK at BOS, DTW and JFK. DL is doing what UA could only wish it could achieve.
As usual you don’t understand the game being played. AA has been using their smallest aircraft to retain gates per the ORD agreement. UA is now using even smaller, more appropriately sized aircraft to do the same. As the data shows UA’s ORD network is far more developed and effective/profitable, but nice try.
yes, we ALL understand what is going on - except for you.
UA thinks it can keep adding money-losing flights so it can gain more gates and push AA out.
Nobody has argued that UA isn't in the lead. The question is whether UA can achieve its goal of pushing AA's hub out of ORD - and no one other than UA employee apologists hiding under their desks in Willis Tower believe that is possible or realistic
If you think adding 50 Seaters is less advantageous than 76 Seaters in a fight for gates at ORD where allocation is based on # of departures then you don't "understand." Yikes!
losing money flying less efficient aircraft to win a battle that UA can't win is the failure of what UA is doing - and everyone can see it.
AA isn't walking away for strategic reasons; UA has more gates and likely always will. and yet UA thinks they can force AA out but flooding the market with a bunch of money-losing flights that do nothing for the local market.
It is testosterone driven stupidity and it is no surprise that you can't see it for what it is
"losing money flying less efficient aircraft to win a battle that UA can't win is the failure of what"
When you continually come to the wrong conclusion check your premises. UA is making money and winning the battle at ORD.
Yes, United is Chicago’s “hometown”, yet it keeps flirting with moving HQ to Denver. I’m sure it won’t take much of a tax break to get them to relocate.
factor in the cost of remaining in Chicago just so it can "win" this argument and it is AA that will come out smelling like roses.
Colorado just lost a major IT company HDQ to Florida. They want a win.
UA has no leverage in this war if they move their HDQ out of IL
You obviously don't understand leverage either. Yikes!
The smack talk is almost entertaining in that United never refers to the labor advantage it has due to unresolved contracts when it talks smack about American or Delta. Also of interest and note, when was the last time you heard any smack coming out of the mouth of Ed Bastian or any Delta exec. They don't need to. They run a very good operation and make a ton of money - and that's with...
The smack talk is almost entertaining in that United never refers to the labor advantage it has due to unresolved contracts when it talks smack about American or Delta. Also of interest and note, when was the last time you heard any smack coming out of the mouth of Ed Bastian or any Delta exec. They don't need to. They run a very good operation and make a ton of money - and that's with top of the industry wages for all EE groups. Maybe Kirby - et al - needs to do less smack talking, get the contracts ratified and then get on a level playing field with AA and DL when it comes to earnings. That’s when I'll pay attention to UA's earnings with a bit more interest.
I wish UA execs would let their performance speak for them, but most of what they have said and predicted has been pretty close to the mark.
What I love is how these social media purveyors mischaracterize and amplify what is said for click bait while simultaneously trying to claim the moral high ground. I think the word is chutzpah. Take a look in the mirror.
DL has spoken very little about the failure of low cost competitors and yet they have benefitted the most. DTW and BOS as well as JFK are undoubtedly much more profitable for DL than UA could ever hope for from any of their hubs because of B6 and NK.
in fact, DL HAS benefitted the most from the failure of the low cost sector. UA loves to talk big but has yet to deliver.
...DL has spoken very little about the failure of low cost competitors and yet they have benefitted the most. DTW and BOS as well as JFK are undoubtedly much more profitable for DL than UA could ever hope for from any of their hubs because of B6 and NK.
in fact, DL HAS benefitted the most from the failure of the low cost sector. UA loves to talk big but has yet to deliver.
that is why they keep talking louder and making more ridiculous statements because it is clear they are not winning.
you just don't like that there are people that can really see through UA's - and your - incessant non-sense.
and UA will lose a huge amount of money flying a bunch of empty CRJ550s from IND, MKE and other cities to ORD just so they can push their departure count to 750 flights/day and they will won't have a hub that generates as much revenue as DL does at ATL or AA has at DFW - or even AA at CLT.
All evidence to the contrary. United is hitting on all cylinders. It's just a matter of time.
and yet you can't or won't debate the actual facts that are presented.
UA can't stand that someone else is not on the verge of failure to help UA out and yet, as noted above, DL is a better run company and airline and they don't trash talk the competition
NYC market share, DL MRO, NickW, Riyadh Air, 2031, etc. Too funny.
this is more of the UA strategy of trying to pick a fight with everyone except for DL - which UA knows it cannot beat - while manufacturing manipulated data to argue how well they are doing while claiming how bad their competitors are doing.
AA and WN have both made major missteps but are both expecting to see significant financial improvements in 2026, in part because of failures among low cost carriers, esp. B6...
this is more of the UA strategy of trying to pick a fight with everyone except for DL - which UA knows it cannot beat - while manufacturing manipulated data to argue how well they are doing while claiming how bad their competitors are doing.
AA and WN have both made major missteps but are both expecting to see significant financial improvements in 2026, in part because of failures among low cost carriers, esp. B6 and NK, both of which have benefitted DL more than any other carrier. AA is next in line with benefits from failed low cost competition. F9 and WN are UA's biggest low cost competitors and WN esp. is turning things around.
UA seems deathly afraid that AA can actually figure out how to dig itself out of the mess that it has been in for years and be able to sustain even some level of subsidy for ORD = nowhere near $500 million/year let alone the $1 billion that UA thinks AA will lose.
the bottom line is that UA seems to think that it can engage in a dozen initiatives across its network to knock off competitors but it is highly unlikely it can do that and obtain profits even close to DL's - which is far less focused on market share and far more about profitability.
add in the labor cost advantage which UA has to correct - its employees are going to wake up someday and realize they are only hurting themselves for helping their company execs' ego - and it is so refreshing to see Ben say that UA will be right in the middle of AA and DL and probably about on par w/ WN on an apples to apples financial basis.
UA simply cannot pick a million battles with every competitor other than DL, pay its people more, and deliver better financial results than they are generating now.
Since UA is led by a bunch of testosterone-laden children, UA will try and the biggest beneficiary will be DL that will continue to grow in the areas where UA has had the advantage - notably East and South Asia and the Middle East.
All evidence to the contrary.
I agree with your point on how UA profits are exaggerated given the incoming labor contract. However, I haven't seen any evidence in recent years that United is attacking WN or F9. F9 seems to already be lessening the pressures on DEN without United's influence already.
Twit, the tie up with JetBlue will irritate Delta.
Do you think before you type?
Addicts never think before chasing their next hit.
The moral of this fight is don’t fly to/from/via ORD for the foreseeable future. With the construction and added capacity it’s going to be a mess. A real mess.
One more time: Outside of niche travel blogs… no one cares about this because it isn’t actually amounting to lower fares. The ‘turf-war’ is astroturf so far. Wake me up when there’s real deals to be hand there. Like, 60K points for TATL in J! Okie dokie, that’d be sumthin!
You should fly more than delta. That type of deal is rather common with Aadvantage
The adjective "Admittedly" is yucky.
The adverb "Admittedly" ...
I have been an AA Exec Plat for 25 years and (largely) a big fan of the company during that time. My loyalties are waning and shifting though. Yes the benefits have been reduced (frequently discussed in this forum) but the real reason is the demise of their inflight experience. Rickety/dated seats, rushed food service, cheap wines, tacky amenity kits, surly staff. Leadership took their eyes off the ball. Bean counters took the wheel. There’s...
I have been an AA Exec Plat for 25 years and (largely) a big fan of the company during that time. My loyalties are waning and shifting though. Yes the benefits have been reduced (frequently discussed in this forum) but the real reason is the demise of their inflight experience. Rickety/dated seats, rushed food service, cheap wines, tacky amenity kits, surly staff. Leadership took their eyes off the ball. Bean counters took the wheel. There’s no room for complacency now. It’s do or die.
Wait you just described Air Canada
This. A million times this. Same.
It's unnecessary for sure. But I also don't see how it's unviable for ORD to sustain a dual hub (triple if MDW is factored in for Chicago).
Delta is the most profitable airline out there and plays 2nd place in SEA the same way AA is 2nd at ORD, so I don't see why AA can't succeed either.
From a Chicago native, it’s exhausting. Kirby is a jerk.
it really does come across as a lack of confidence in their own strategy when United continues to talk smack like this.
It really does start to seem like they're quite nervous about the AA strategy in ORD when they keep talking like this trying to get the Street to do something about it since they seem unable to?
But then again, United's entire summer strategy to 700+ departures per day is 9x...
it really does come across as a lack of confidence in their own strategy when United continues to talk smack like this.
It really does start to seem like they're quite nervous about the AA strategy in ORD when they keep talking like this trying to get the Street to do something about it since they seem unable to?
But then again, United's entire summer strategy to 700+ departures per day is 9x per day on the CRJ-200 on ORD-GRB (it's not all on the CRJ-200 but that's all United really did in their latest growth announcement). At some point local customers are going to realize United is the only local carrier using the CRJ to build boost numbers to look good.
I like UA but maybe stop building your network on the backs of your worker pay then come back and talk smack.
This is it right here. It’s classic bully talk, rather than letting their performance speak for itself. If they really think AA is so mismanaged, why bother saying anything at all? Let AA run themselves into the ground.
In all honesty the smack talk is less about United and more about us as a society now. Social media, popular culture, conspiracy theorists, news media, and of course a deranged President have all been a part in normalizing this behavior. Meanwhile, being polite seems to conjure up perceptions of weakness.
These are hard times for a Gentleman.
"Smack talk", competition, arrogance and cockiness have been around since the beginning of time. It may not be normal for your inner circle, but it's certainly been apart of others for thousands of years.
And doing so doesn't make someone, "not a gentleman" or less of a person. Competition is great, it forces better ideas, products and people.
I agree "smack talk" has been around since the beginning. However, smack talk has been more prevalent in non-entertainment industries after the 2000s. With the rise of short form content, having roasts just seems to be the easiest way to garner attention.
@Antwerp
So very true.
I say again: If they continue on their current trajectory, American might not exist in 4 years. Oneworld partners better cosy up with Alaska, especially Cathay Pacific who must compete with Starlux
Profitable airline that's paying down debt while expanding its fleet is DOOMED. DOOMED!!