Lufthansa Group has revealed quite the transatlantic expansion today. In addition to SWISS adding flights from Zurich to Washington and Toronto, Lufthansa is also adding flights to two new destinations in North America.
In this post:
Lufthansa expands North America flights in 2024
As of the summer of 2024, Lufthansa will be adding nonstop flights from Frankfurt (FRA) to both Minneapolis-Saint Paul (MSP) and Raleigh-Durham (RDU). Let’s go over the details of these new routes.
Lufthansa adds Frankfurt to Minneapolis route
As of June 4, 2024, Lufthansa will be introducing 5x weekly year-round service between Frankfurt and Minneapolis. The airline will operate the flight with the following schedule:
LH482 Frankfurt to Minneapolis departing 11:10AM arriving 1:15PM
LH483 Minneapolis to Frankfurt departing 3:15PM arriving 6:40AM (+1 day)
The 4,393-mile flight is blocked at 9hr5min westbound and 8hr25min eastbound. Since the service is 5x weekly, Lufthansa won’t be operating the flight on Wednesdays and Fridays. Lufthansa will use a Boeing 787-9 for the service, featuring 294 seats. This includes 26 business class seats, 21 premium economy seats, and 247 economy seats.
Lufthansa adds Frankfurt to Raleigh route
As of June 6, 2024, Lufthansa will be introducing 5x weekly year-round service between Frankfurt and Raleigh. The airline will operate the flight with the following schedule:
LH408 Frankfurt to Raleigh departing 10:20AM arriving 1:50PM
LH409 Raleigh to Frankfurt departing 3:50PM arriving 6:15AM (+1 day)
The 4,278-mile flight is blocked at 9hr30min westbound and 8hr25min eastbound. Since the service is 5x weekly, Lufthansa won’t be operating the flight on Wednesdays and Sundays. Lufthansa will use an Airbus A330-300 for the route, featuring 255 seats. This includes 42 business class seats, 28 premium economy seats, and 185 economy seats.
My take on Lufthansa’s transatlantic expansion
It’s always fun to see airlines adding service to new long haul markets, so these are two really cool additions, if you ask me. Let’s talk a bit about these two new routes.
Minneapolis is a Delta fortress hub, and a vast majority of the long haul service out of the airport is on Delta and its SkyTeam partners. However, the airport is slowly but surely getting service from other carriers. Aer Lingus recently announced it would add a Dublin to Minneapolis route, and now Lufthansa is adding service as well.
I’m curious to see how this route performs. I’m sure it’ll do fine in summer, but can this service be sustained in winter, when the local community is so fiercely loyal to Delta? While Delta doesn’t currently operate a Minneapolis to Frankfurt route, I have to imagine that will be added very shortly. I mean, Delta added a Minneapolis to Dublin route just hours after Aer Lingus announced it would launch that route.
Raleigh is also an interesting market, because it’s a city that has expanded nicely over the years, yet it’s not a full-on hub for any airline. Both American and Delta have a respectable presence there. As far as long haul service from the airport goes, American operates a flight to London, Delta operates a flight to Paris (which will be transfered to Air France this winter), Icelandair operates a route to Keflavik, and now Lufthansa will operate a route to Frankfurt. There aren’t many US airports that have exactly one transatlantic route from each of the three global alliances, so I think that’s pretty cool.
Bottom line
Lufthansa will nicely be expanding across the Atlantic in 2024, as the airline will add two new destinations to its route map. Lufthansa will fly from Frankfurt to both Minneapolis and Raleigh. It’s always great to see markets with limited competition or with limited transatlantic flights get more service, and I’m sure many consumers will appreciate this.
What do you make of Lufthansa adding flights to Minneapolis and Raleigh?
It does not make sense as these are not Star Alliance hubs. For those connecting this lacks.
As an MSP flyer this is really good news. It opens up a lot of connection options all over Europe getting into FRA early in the morning. London and Dublin are kind of dead ends for connections. I would also rather avoid CDG and with AMS reducing flights this is probably a nice win all around for us. I don't see why Delta would bother competing with this. Unless someone is flying nonstop to FRA DL wouldn't have the connections beyond.
In a completely unscientific survey of jamming in various dates and destinations across both Delta and Lufthansa it was interesting to see while Delta was often cheaper for economy flights, their premium cabins were astronomical compared to Lufthansa. I know Lufthansa's product isn't as good generally, but this route will be served by 787's which means it will have atleast a decent comparison in product. More importantly premium economy is drastically cheaper on the way...
In a completely unscientific survey of jamming in various dates and destinations across both Delta and Lufthansa it was interesting to see while Delta was often cheaper for economy flights, their premium cabins were astronomical compared to Lufthansa. I know Lufthansa's product isn't as good generally, but this route will be served by 787's which means it will have atleast a decent comparison in product. More importantly premium economy is drastically cheaper on the way to various European destinations, in the magnitude at times of 1-2K a ticket.
Much has been made of Delta's ability to upsell the front cabin, but that has mostly happened because they often have minimal long-haul competition in many of their fortress hubs, MSP included. My hope is this will be a reality check on Delta's absurdly expensive front cabins.
There's a Carolina megalopolis 3 hours from end to end stretching from Greensville-Spartanburg to Raleigh-Durham including Charlotte and Greensboro and Winston Salem with a population of 9 million and growing fast. Airlines are establishing beachheads in markets like RDU and Austin, Texas because are cities of the future.
Any idea when these will be bookable?
Flights will go on sales later today (September 13).
If Delta wanted to retaliate against LH for starting MSP service, they would be better served by starting service to a LH stronghold. I suggest HAM (Hamburg)? Why? That location has no nonstop U.S. service, and LH takes local traffic for granted by forcing them to connect through FRA or MUC. I am sure that (very wealthy) German City would be thrilled to have a better option.
I really hope Minneapolis starts to get more options to Europe and hopefully Latin America. Delta is by far the best US airline in my opinion so I am not sad I am hostage of Delta at MSP. However, their prices out of MSP to Europe are out of control so competition would be amazing. Just flew MSP-LHR-MSP last week. Coach was $3,800, Delta One $15k. There were 12 empty seats on Delta One as...
I really hope Minneapolis starts to get more options to Europe and hopefully Latin America. Delta is by far the best US airline in my opinion so I am not sad I am hostage of Delta at MSP. However, their prices out of MSP to Europe are out of control so competition would be amazing. Just flew MSP-LHR-MSP last week. Coach was $3,800, Delta One $15k. There were 12 empty seats on Delta One as people are not paying that much. Not sure about people flying to Germany from MSP but using that as a hub to reach other places in Europe if the price is right is fantastic.
I’m sure the MSP/RDU ads are backed by heavy city/county/state incentives. Neither route makes much sense, especially in off-peak seasons.
You do realize Minnesota is home to more Fortune 500 companies on a per capita basis than anywhere else right? And that Mayo patients fly through MSP?
Huh? Number of F500 companies ‘per capita’? Not sure what that even means, other than Minn has a small population.
Airlines don’t fly ‘per capita’. They fly absolute. Number of planes, size of planes, are all absolute.
My point was LH has little rationale flying to MSP/RDU. Swiss flying into IAD/YUZ makes far more sense.
What he is trying to say is that a lot of MSP population works for large corporations which means many of these people will be flying. I think if they price it right there is a huge rationale in having flights to Germany where you can connect to everywhere in Europe. Delta dominates the market offering London, Paris, Amsterdam and Dublin so having Germany as an option is awesome. Raleigh is a much smaller market...
What he is trying to say is that a lot of MSP population works for large corporations which means many of these people will be flying. I think if they price it right there is a huge rationale in having flights to Germany where you can connect to everywhere in Europe. Delta dominates the market offering London, Paris, Amsterdam and Dublin so having Germany as an option is awesome. Raleigh is a much smaller market with way less large corporations. Also, MSP ranks 16th in terms of busiest airports in the country and has received awards as the best airport in the US up to 40m passengers. Maybe you should visit one day.
Actually, no.
Minnesota has as many Fortune 500 companies as Georgia. That doesn’t include Medtronic that is legally incorporated in Ireland but has their HQ staff here, or Cargill which is privately held. There are also several German companies that have NA operations here.
The LH flight from MSP to Germany is a nice addition for me. I can only hope that Condor’s flight from MSP doesn’t become a casualty of this LH move and DL’s desire to chase out competitors from MSP.
Good to have Swiss at YYZ.
With the local airline up here being utter garbage, this is good news.
Although I prefer US carriers I like Air Canada. At least Air Canada don’t force you to eat spicy food and do not leave the cabin smelling like some type of Spanish barrio after meal service.
No one forces you to eat, but you can’t help being xenophobic
LH are spending a small fortune on marketing here in the UK with radio adverts and bill boards all over the country for the last few months, with our flag carriers (VS & BA) not countering at all.
That tiny United Club at MSP will probably need to be expanded because of this. But how much space is available?
Great to see MSP gaining all this intl travel and competition, but lounge situation there is pretty bad. New DL lounge is nice though.
not sure about the UA RDU lounge situation but AA and DL in RDU have comparable lounges and DL opened a very nice lounge in BNA - much nicer than anyone else's. if lounges are a consideration, then DL or one of its partners should be announcing a longhaul flight to BNA
UA had shut it down for a while until it was reopened to be as it is now.
For some reason the UA MSP lounge is bad about allowing into the lounge UA passengers flying out of MSP to connect on separate same-day tickets in UA Polaris.
MSP native here. Locals loyal to Delta due to convenience and choice. The question I have is whether there is enough demand to/from Germany esp in the "more than 0 chance" Delta decides to retaliate and start an FRA route. But we have more than a few who are "price sensitive" and won't hesitate to fly with someone else. (Myself included, Delta is just "one of many choices to consider")
When Aer Lingus started their...
MSP native here. Locals loyal to Delta due to convenience and choice. The question I have is whether there is enough demand to/from Germany esp in the "more than 0 chance" Delta decides to retaliate and start an FRA route. But we have more than a few who are "price sensitive" and won't hesitate to fly with someone else. (Myself included, Delta is just "one of many choices to consider")
When Aer Lingus started their DUB service right before the pandemic, it was a HUGE success. Ditto with years of Condor to FRA (though still I think 3 to 4x weekly) and Icelandair service to KEF. And there are still plenty of domestic routes from ULCCs, more in recent years.
As a CLT hub hostage, I’m so glad to see both AF and LH add service out of RDU. It creates more and better options. LH’s CLT-MUC route is the only non-AA TATL flight. While LH’s current J hard product leaves a lot to be desired, their soft product is infinitely better than AA’s. Most of AA’s 777-200s out of CLT have those awful Zodiac seats that alternate forward and rear facing and rock when...
As a CLT hub hostage, I’m so glad to see both AF and LH add service out of RDU. It creates more and better options. LH’s CLT-MUC route is the only non-AA TATL flight. While LH’s current J hard product leaves a lot to be desired, their soft product is infinitely better than AA’s. Most of AA’s 777-200s out of CLT have those awful Zodiac seats that alternate forward and rear facing and rock when the person in front/behind moves. Bottom line, NC needs more or options and they’re not coming out of CLT, so I’m glad to see them coming out of RDU. I really hope EI may jump in with a flight to DUB too.
Would love to see EI and maybe Qatar add service to NC
NC needs more or options
Well, it WANTS more (who doesn't?) and fortunately has just received more; but the case that it needs more, might be less compelling than one living there would think.
N.C. sits between massive aviation markets like ATL and metro WAS, yet still manages to boast two gateways with multiple transoceanic services + one of the largest domestic hubs in the country...
...all despite the entire state having less population and...
NC needs more or options
Well, it WANTS more (who doesn't?) and fortunately has just received more; but the case that it needs more, might be less compelling than one living there would think.
N.C. sits between massive aviation markets like ATL and metro WAS, yet still manages to boast two gateways with multiple transoceanic services + one of the largest domestic hubs in the country...
...all despite the entire state having less population and fewer Fortune500s than some of the major singular metros with which it competes.
I'd say N.C. is doing pretty dang well, considering.
NC ranks 9th for population and 15th for F500 companies. The Research Triangle boasts two of the nation’s preeminent universities and a disproportionate pharma and tech sector relative to its size.
By your measures, Metro WAS should actually have way less air service and Ohio should have some of the biggest hubs. That’s not all that factors in travel demand though. Disposable income and education level are huge factors. Airports people desire to use are...
NC ranks 9th for population and 15th for F500 companies. The Research Triangle boasts two of the nation’s preeminent universities and a disproportionate pharma and tech sector relative to its size.
By your measures, Metro WAS should actually have way less air service and Ohio should have some of the biggest hubs. That’s not all that factors in travel demand though. Disposable income and education level are huge factors. Airports people desire to use are also big factors.
If only the world was as simple as the narrow way that you assess it.
Do feel free to copy/paste where I stated anything about those being "all that factors" into such TATL or (as you so strangely stated) "the world." That'd be interesting.
NC is the 9th biggest state and the second fastest growing after Texas. 11,000,000 people is significantly larger than either DC or ATL.
Interesting that RDU is getting double the biz capacity. Wonder if there are some corporate contracts supporting that
Probably - the two cities have deep ties in the pharma space.
This is correct. The flight is being backed by 11 business and universities, including BASF.
Condor also operates MSP/FRA seasonally, will be interesting to see what impact there is to that flight.
Delta and Lufthansa/United have limited direct competition to a fairly small number of routes considering the size of the two but that dynamic appears to be changing and seems to be moving more in LHR's favor than DL's.
SEA-MUC is also on the list; whether people are loyal to DL because of their size in a city like MSP or by choice, airlines do make decisions based on the competitive impact their decisions will make....
Delta and Lufthansa/United have limited direct competition to a fairly small number of routes considering the size of the two but that dynamic appears to be changing and seems to be moving more in LHR's favor than DL's.
SEA-MUC is also on the list; whether people are loyal to DL because of their size in a city like MSP or by choice, airlines do make decisions based on the competitive impact their decisions will make. Even if LH or UA isn't historically strong in SEA, they will compete for more connecting traffic that DL/AF/KL carry over Europe.
Delta doesn't have any BOS to Germany routes and they only serve FRA and BER from JFK. Most of DL's German routes are from ATL with DTW getting one of 3 FRA routes and seasonal MUCH.
I suspect that is about to change but don't think it will mean MSP-FRA as much as more from the NE to Germany.
RDU is a pretty divided city in terms of share but UA is at least #4 and LH will be competing against both AA and AF/DL (depending on the season) for connecting traffic. In both RDU and SEA as well as SEA, LH might find a tough battle for any US point of sale traffic so LH better have the upper hand with German traffic.
The larger theme might be the increased head-butting that will be going on between DL and UA esp. over the Pacific. DL and UA have also largely avoided direct nonstop international flights in most US cities. UA has dropped BOS-LHR but added LAX-LHR flights which DL recently added.
There are only so many market combinations that can be added and you will see alot more "head butting" going on between carriers and alliances. Nobody is whining as much as protecting their markets. If DL decides to add SFO-ICN, I doubt anyone would characterize UA as whining. I'm not sure why anyone would think that DL wouldn't do the same thing including AF's recent return to EWR-CDG when UA does it via their JV partner.
We'll see the next phase when DL announces their 2024 expansion in a couple weeks.
Did hear that LH/LX were not happy this year when DL entered the JFK-GVA market…
I am sure they were not...but LH started DTW-MUC, IIRC, so I'm not sure the score has swung in DL's favor or back to pre-covid "equality" if that is a goal.
And DL is much smaller from the NE (JFK and BOS) to LH Group hubs than they are from other hubs... so if DL made a dent in the NYC-GVA market, which is far larger and heavily skewed to Star, it would seem there...
I am sure they were not...but LH started DTW-MUC, IIRC, so I'm not sure the score has swung in DL's favor or back to pre-covid "equality" if that is a goal.
And DL is much smaller from the NE (JFK and BOS) to LH Group hubs than they are from other hubs... so if DL made a dent in the NYC-GVA market, which is far larger and heavily skewed to Star, it would seem there is much more opportunity for DL to add more flights from the NE to LH Group hubs as well as reinstate ATL-ZRH than there are opportunities for LH Group to "raid" other DL hubs.
Lufthansa will operate between MSP and Frankfurt five days a week (Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday and Sunday) with a Boeing 787-9 Dreamliner airplane, offering a three-class configuration of business, premium economy and economy classes.
Flights from Frankfurt depart at 11:10 a.m. and arrive in the Twin Cities at 1:15 p.m. Flights departing from MSP leave at 3:15 p.m. and arrives in Frankfurt at 6:40 a.m. the following day.
This is from the local news in MN.
I'm curious if the new routes from LH are at the expense of old routes, or does FRA airport & LH both have the excess capacity to easily expand?
MSP resident here. We aren’t “fiercely loyal” to delta out of choice, it’s because they basically have the market captive. If you look at the market share statistics they have around 65%, the next closest is sun country at around 6.
I find it interesting that Delta needs to be the whiny spoiler whenever any non-alliance airline starts a route to MSP. It’s not like the city is suddenly going to stop being a fortress hub.
Love it! Anything that potentially puts pressure on Delta and their exorbitant MSP-Europe fares is a win.
Yeah good luck trying to get LH to be the one lowering prices for MSP…DE has already been doing that and EI is also far likelier to do that than LH!
Exciting to see. LH also announced Munich-Seattle for next summer
I can't find this anywhere?
They announced it pre-pandemic, but did they ever confirm it?
I'd have to go back and look, but I'm almost positive I had a ticket on a LH SEA-MUC nonstop booked pre-pandemic. I never took that flight, as it was scheduled for summer 2020.
Really? Another TATL option in the evening would be very welcome...
it was confirmed later yes!
Great to see the RDU route. I think I read somewhere that it will land at 2 and take off at 4 though which is a bit awkward in terms of takeoff time.
Really? I hope thats not true!
It’s awkward but it’s the only thing that works because RDU can only handle 2 international widebody arrivals at once. If they wanted to leave at 6, they’d have to arrive in Raleigh at 2 and then taxi to the D Concourse before 4