Flying Blue Boss: “You Don’t Put A Price On Loyalty”

Flying Blue Boss: “You Don’t Put A Price On Loyalty”

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While there continues to be lots of value with miles & points, we certainly live in an era where actually being loyal to an airline is less valuable than in the past. Broadly speaking, airlines keep asking loyalty program members for more in order to earn status, while rewarding them with less. At some point, one wonders if it’s worth it.

Along those lines, CNN just published a fun article, about how frequent flyers have spent years staying loyal to airlines, only to be given “the middle finger” (CNN’s words, not mine!). This story is actually pretty refreshing, and I figure it’s worth sharing.

Flying Blue boss Ben Lipsey understands loyalty

Recently, we saw British Airways massively overhaul its loyalty program, with the biggest implications being that elite status is much more difficult to earn, and more closely tied to revenue. This CNN story includes an interview with Ben Lipsey, SVP for Customer Loyalty at Air France-KLM, and head of the airline group’s Flying Blue loyalty program.

Personally, I’m a fan of any airline loyalty program executive who got into the industry through their own obsession with miles & points. That’s because they really understand the psychology of these loyalty programs, unlike an outsider who might just be coming in and looking at this clinically. Lipsey started off as a FlyerTalk-obsessed teenager, and now runs one of Europe’s biggest loyalty programs.

He has lots of great quotes that I think any frustrated airline loyalty program elite member will appreciate, which demonstrates a clear understanding of consumer behavior:

  • “A rational consumer would take the cheapest flight at the best time. From a psychology perspective, [loyalty programs] are about trying to stimulate irrational behavior.”
  • “It’s important to let customers feel they can find gamification opportunities.”
  • “If [on Flying Blue] you do London-Paris-New York, or London-Amsterdam-Tokyo, by connecting you achieve status more easily. Me personally, I’m happy with that.”
  • “I think a lot of companies forget loyalty is a two-way street. It’s not just a transactional relationship; trust is really crucial… When the program makes a change, it reflects on the airline and vice versa.”
  • “BA has basically said ‘Gold is worth £20,000’ so now as a customer you start saying, ‘Am I getting £20,000 worth of value?’ If it’s purely revenue-based, that’s the risk. And I think it removes the irrational behavior that is key to loyalty programs.”
  • “It’s a bold move they’ve made. What they’ve done is basically fired the leisure customer. Whether they need those or not is up to them to decide. I’m sure they’ve done their homework.”

Interestingly, Lipsey also mentions how Flying Blue has been offering a status match to those loyal to other airlines, and in particular, British Airways. He hopes that these matches will generate €20-30 million in incremental customer value, so those are some interesting numbers.

Lipsey has the right perspective on loyalty, if you ask me

Flying Blue considers revenue component to elite status

Now, there is one interesting comment in this story that points to some possible future changes with the Flying Blue program. Lipsey acknowledges that Flying Blue is considering some sort of “revenue component” to elite status, like a minimum spend or flight requirement, but nothing more. As he concludes, “you don’t put a price on loyalty.”

Currently, Flying Blue elite status is straightforward to earn — it’s based on how many XPs (“experience points”) you rack up, with that metric factoring in the number of segments you fly, what class of service you’re in, and how much distance the segments cover. It doesn’t matter if you fly Air France-KLM or a partner, or how much you spend.

Flying Blue’s XP earning rates

Now, if changes were to be made, I’m trying to think of which direction Flying Blue could take. The program could require a certain number of XPs to be earned on Air France-KLM (those are currently referred to as UXPs, and that only matters for Ultimate status), or require a certain number of segments.

However, I’m not really sure how you could meaningfully change the requirements without going in the direction of “putting a price on loyalty.”

Personally, I doubt we’ll see any imminent changes, as I think Flying Blue will probably see what happens at British Airways once these changes are implemented. We’ve already seen British Airways partially backtrack on its program updates, in light of the amount of pushback the program has been getting.

I think loyalty program executives often fall into the trap of thinking that the higher the requirements are to earn status, the more people will go out of their way to spend with the airline. Quite to the contrary, I think that completely overlooks the incremental business that’s generated among those who might not be the biggest spenders, but who go out of their way to fly the airline. Recently, I wrote about my take on what kind of travelers should be most rewarded by loyalty programs.

Flying Blue may add a revenue component to status

Bottom line

Flying Blue’s loyalty chief has made some refreshing comments in light of the general direction we’re seeing the industry headed, plus British Airways’ recently announced changes.

I think Lipsey’s perspective is exactly right — there’s value in programs with an element of gamification, which will make consumers more likely to act irrationally. Once a program goes purely revenue based, then it really makes consumers less likely to go out of their way to be loyal, since it becomes more of an accounting exercise than anything.

What’s your take on this loyalty program debate?

Conversations (50)
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  1. artemis70 New Member

    While I love Ben's comments, he does make it look nicer than it really is. The value of the Flying Blue benefits has been going down significantly in the last couple of years. It has also become harder to rack up XP's on partner airlines. It looks like Flying Blue is trying to reduce cost of the program in a different way than others, and perhaps still leaving enough value for customers.
    For perspective,...

    While I love Ben's comments, he does make it look nicer than it really is. The value of the Flying Blue benefits has been going down significantly in the last couple of years. It has also become harder to rack up XP's on partner airlines. It looks like Flying Blue is trying to reduce cost of the program in a different way than others, and perhaps still leaving enough value for customers.
    For perspective, I'm about to make it to Platinum for Life. I have spent significant company and personal money to get there. Had I just started on my flying "career" just now, I don't think I would have done the same given the current benefits.

  2. SMC422 Guest

    whether a business or leisure traveler, the miles or points are an extra. no need to literally miles or subject self to inferior business class product just for miles/ points

  3. Weymar Osborne Diamond

    Definitely agree with many of the points made. Just looking at my own situation, I'm by no means a road-warrior. Just a recent uni grad that values travel experiences more than the average person and takes a few international trips per year. I stay loyal to United (funny enough, actually because of Asiana's program) and have paid more to fly with them because I can keep earning towards the things I value most: lounge access,...

    Definitely agree with many of the points made. Just looking at my own situation, I'm by no means a road-warrior. Just a recent uni grad that values travel experiences more than the average person and takes a few international trips per year. I stay loyal to United (funny enough, actually because of Asiana's program) and have paid more to fly with them because I can keep earning towards the things I value most: lounge access, free baggage, and earning points with some decent value. For an upcoming Dublin-Denver roundtrip I'm looking at, UA is a little over $100 more expensive than the next option but I'll still probably book that itinerary to work towards retaining my Star Alliance Gold. Once Asiana gets absorbed by Korean Air however and I would need to switch to MileagePlus or something to maintain a Star Alliance program I can't imagine I'll continue to place such a preference for United (or any Star Alliance airline) since requirements will be higher to the point I probably can't reach them and I'll likely become a free agent. Don't know how much the spreadsheeters at major loyalty programs value my type of consumer but surely getting an extra $100 or 2 out of me on an economy itinerary isn't nothing.

    1. --- Guest

      Since it sounds like you're based in Europe, take a look and see if Aegean or Turkish would work well for you for retaining Star Gold.

      United MileagePlus is tough due to the high revenue requirements, unless you want to fly a lot of Air Canada long-haul.

    2. Weymar Osborne Diamond

      Yeah, I'm a dual US/Japanese citizen based in Europe as of recently. Asiana always worked well for me in the past since they could connect me into the smaller airports in Japan like Nagoya or Sapporo that don't have direct flights long-haul. Now that I'm in Europe I've considered Aegean although I think they have a minimum segment on A3 metal requirement (not necessarily undoable) and I doubt I'd regularly meet the yearly miles requirements...

      Yeah, I'm a dual US/Japanese citizen based in Europe as of recently. Asiana always worked well for me in the past since they could connect me into the smaller airports in Japan like Nagoya or Sapporo that don't have direct flights long-haul. Now that I'm in Europe I've considered Aegean although I think they have a minimum segment on A3 metal requirement (not necessarily undoable) and I doubt I'd regularly meet the yearly miles requirements for Turkish status as a primarily leisure traveler usually earning only 50-75% distance flown on economy tickets (Asiana's 40,000 miles across 2 years to earn Star Gold and 30,000 to maintain is an unbelievably generous requirement that I cannot believe has lasted this long).

    3. Samo Guest

      Turkish only needs 25k once in two years (always the first year of a two year period) to renew. Or 37.5k across two years. Once you get through the initial qualification, it's super easy to renew. They also do status match.

  4. Jean Gibbens Guest

    My husband and I fly AF as often as possible. We are leisure flyers, so that translates to a single return flight with one connection each year. Unfortunately, AF is unavailable to us for our more frequent flights, to the Caribbean. We've never used points in payment because I haven't figured out how to. I need contact with a knowledgeable rep and haven't as yet connected with one. But we choose AF because of AF and not because of Flying Blue.

  5. Samo Guest

    Ben is great, and it should also be noted that he engages with the community over at FT (and possibly other platforms). He gets it. I don't want the airline to pretend we are besties and love each other, I want a clear and honest communication about how they're gonna make my trips better in return for me spending more money with them. I don't want to be insulted like BA or LHG do. If...

    Ben is great, and it should also be noted that he engages with the community over at FT (and possibly other platforms). He gets it. I don't want the airline to pretend we are besties and love each other, I want a clear and honest communication about how they're gonna make my trips better in return for me spending more money with them. I don't want to be insulted like BA or LHG do. If you need to cut something, be honest about it, I understand that you are a business after all, don't pretend that I asked for it because that will just show that you take me for a fool.

    Look at how Flying Blue handled the end of unlimited XP rollover. There was no "it's better for you to not get status" BS like BA did. It was presented as something that needs to be done, and it also came with some carrot in addition to the stick. FB could very well just tell people that they're taking away their XP, tough luck. Instead they provided something meaningful to compensate for the devaluation of existing XP (converting them into years towards the lifetime status).

    This is how I want loyalty programmes to work. Take my money, give me something in return and don't treat me like an idiot.

  6. ECM Member

    Recently switched my loyalty (and flying patterns) to FB, and enjoying the switch.
    Interestingly, I would not mind a spend component to FB, but not as a substitute to XP. More in line of qualification based on XP OR Spend. I fly a ton of last minute short-haul EU flights in economy, so my tickets tend to be pricey. And so I would welcome the option to qualify either through legacy XP OR new revenue component.

    1. Throwawayname Guest

      I think that's the only way in which Mr Lipsey's comments make sense. Connecting pax pay less for their tickets, so, if he's happy to give them status, he must be looking for an additional path and not an alternative one.

  7. Ross Kennedy Guest

    I am a leisure traveler, and my wife and I often chose BA ahead of other airlines to maintain silver / bronze levels. Now, it is impossible for us to hit silver, bronze will take quite a lot flying just to maintain.
    So, simple, bye bye any loyalty to BA, our local airport is Norwich, so, instead of taxi return plus often a hotel at LHR, it is now looking at KLM via Amsterdam.

    I am a leisure traveler, and my wife and I often chose BA ahead of other airlines to maintain silver / bronze levels. Now, it is impossible for us to hit silver, bronze will take quite a lot flying just to maintain.
    So, simple, bye bye any loyalty to BA, our local airport is Norwich, so, instead of taxi return plus often a hotel at LHR, it is now looking at KLM via Amsterdam.
    Sorry and all that, but it should be a two way street, going just one way is just not rewarding.

  8. Never In Doubt Guest

    “You can’t put a price on loyalty”

    Said by a man who’s about to put a price on loyalty.

  9. Randy Diamond

    Flyertalk teenagers (like you once were) are not the best customers. As you say, flyertalker's game the system. With revenue based, all you can do is ghost hotel stays, open credit cards, and other specials. The game just becomes tracking when Japan Airlines opens F reward space.

  10. RichM Diamond

    "What they’ve done is basically fired the leisure customer."

    I'm not sure that's quite what BA has done though? Rather what they've said is that they value the leisure traveler only if you book your holidays through BA Holidays, meaning that they get all that sweet commission on hotels and car hire.

    Whether this will drive people towards BA Holidays, or away from BA altogether, remains to be seen.

    1. Throwawayname Guest

      I understand it's rather tricky to do that for those based in continental Europe. The BA changes have definitely driven away lots of connecting passengers, including many travelling for work.

  11. Mh Diamond

    "“It’s important to let customers feel they can find gamification opportunities.”
    “BA has basically said ‘Gold is worth £20,000’ so now as a customer you start saying, ‘Am I getting £20,000 worth of value?’ If it’s purely revenue-based, that’s the risk. And I think it removes the irrational behavior that is key to loyalty programs.”

    Yes, this guy gets it. Unlike Nick Rohrlach, at Virgin Australia, who comes from a similar background but made...

    "“It’s important to let customers feel they can find gamification opportunities.”
    “BA has basically said ‘Gold is worth £20,000’ so now as a customer you start saying, ‘Am I getting £20,000 worth of value?’ If it’s purely revenue-based, that’s the risk. And I think it removes the irrational behavior that is key to loyalty programs.”

    Yes, this guy gets it. Unlike Nick Rohrlach, at Virgin Australia, who comes from a similar background but made recent massive sweeping changes that make it solely about money spent now, overvaluing the program, and doesn't get it.

  12. dwondermeant Guest

    To London BTW :)

  13. Kevin Guest

    Ben Lipsey ( FB ) and Mark Nasr ( AP ) seem to have a lot in common. I’m glad they both run airline loyalty programs.

  14. dwondermeant Guest

    Admire his words but when a trip from the West Coast in business class once was 65k to 125 k and now 500k he has lost me
    I was gung ho on Flying Blue now so so.More recently I booked LAX on Virgin Atlantic in business class in October for 30,000 points (A350) one way in Upper Class and a reduced surcharge what would be coach on any other airline
    FB Award prices are skyrocketing When you figure in the 30% bonus thats 21k in Virgin upper class one way.AMAZING!

  15. James K. Guest

    I love the sentiment but let's be real: Flying Blue has gotten markedly less useful in the last 9-12 months. I have an award booking service and the majority of my clients want to go to Europe in J, so I spend A LOT of time looking at Flying Blue. They were my absolute go-to but it's gotten so much harder to find anything less than 100k one-way for J to Paris. Sucks telling my...

    I love the sentiment but let's be real: Flying Blue has gotten markedly less useful in the last 9-12 months. I have an award booking service and the majority of my clients want to go to Europe in J, so I spend A LOT of time looking at Flying Blue. They were my absolute go-to but it's gotten so much harder to find anything less than 100k one-way for J to Paris. Sucks telling my clients "Yes I know we USED to be able to do 63k but now it'll be 156!"

    So I used to love Flying Blue both personally and professionally, but right now I can at least count on BA having space for under 100k

    1. Samo Guest

      FB is quite bad for redemptions indeed, but it's very good for status benefits. I think that to make economics of an FFP work, the two things are at odds with each other. If you hand out status easily, you need to make up for it by worse miles value and vice versa. It's not possible to have both (you can of course have a balance where both are on a "medium level"). Then it's...

      FB is quite bad for redemptions indeed, but it's very good for status benefits. I think that to make economics of an FFP work, the two things are at odds with each other. If you hand out status easily, you need to make up for it by worse miles value and vice versa. It's not possible to have both (you can of course have a balance where both are on a "medium level"). Then it's a matter of choosing the right programme for you. As someone who is mostly interested in status perks and making my trips easier, I use Flying Blue and Miles & Smiles, which are both terrible when it comes to the miles value, but earning status on them almost feels like cheating :D If you mostly care about redeeming your miles, then it's indeed better to look elsewhere.

    2. TProphet Guest

      Same, Flying Blue has silly prices everywhere. Even net of transfer bonuses they're really expensive. Prices are up everywhere though, and I'm having the "prices are up 3x like everything else you're buying except for our fees" conversation with clients a lot lately.

  16. Watson Diamond

    The problem is that FB Plat doesn't really offer much. No upgrades (unless Ult), and the SkyTeam perks are pretty bad, e.g. no SkyClub access on domestic US flights. Yes it's cool to book LP on points, but at 250k+ each way it's not a "perk" you'd be using often.

    BA Gold offers F lounge access, and LH Sen offers some upgrades, and both provide domestic lounge access in foreign countries.

    Given that AF will...

    The problem is that FB Plat doesn't really offer much. No upgrades (unless Ult), and the SkyTeam perks are pretty bad, e.g. no SkyClub access on domestic US flights. Yes it's cool to book LP on points, but at 250k+ each way it's not a "perk" you'd be using often.

    BA Gold offers F lounge access, and LH Sen offers some upgrades, and both provide domestic lounge access in foreign countries.

    Given that AF will (understandably) never allow LP lounge access with Plat, they should probably throw in a few upgrades. Say 4x short-haul or 2x long-haul Y->J, or maybe even allow a single J->F. Probably wouldn't cost them a ton, but would provide a clear "gamification" option for members. People will spend extra money now to get free upgrades later.

    1. Mika Guest

      In fairness, top tier status on BA will require 20K in spending for Gold and LH status is 100 Y continental flights for Senator. FB requires just 60 short haul flights in Y to become Platinum. The business class earning is 3x Y where it's closer to 2x on LH. It's not comparable earning why should the benefits be the same.

    2. Throwawayname Guest

      I'm not sure having access to lounges when flying one specific airline on certain routes within a different continent is a really high priority for FB elites. The free baggage on EVERY fare across the alliance* is far more important, and not offered outside of Skyteam.

      The value of short haul upgrades ranges from negligible to negative. I'm never happy to be moved from my exit row aisle to 4A or whatever. Though I...

      I'm not sure having access to lounges when flying one specific airline on certain routes within a different continent is a really high priority for FB elites. The free baggage on EVERY fare across the alliance* is far more important, and not offered outside of Skyteam.

      The value of short haul upgrades ranges from negligible to negative. I'm never happy to be moved from my exit row aisle to 4A or whatever. Though I do agree that a few long haul upgrades would be a good incentive to go for platinum over gold.

      *There are some reports of Aeromexico denying this benefit, however it's likely a training and/or communication issue at some outstations. I did meet some resistance at ACA until I showed check-in staff the text from the Skyteam website, and the chap at NLU had to speak with his supervisor (no website checks involved) but it all got sorted on every occasion.

    3. Watson Diamond

      Throwawayname, I'm surprised that a free bag on a lite/basic economy partner ticket would be a big deal to travelers, but lounge access isn't. How often are people flying a partner airline on a no-bag fare?

    4. Throwawayname Guest

      Check in bags on short haul can cost more than the ticket itself, and sometimes a non-light fare isn't even that easy to purchase. Outside of the USA and maybe China, domestic flying is pretty limited and/or doesn't offer any kind of lounge access at all (e.g. Aerolíneas Argentinas don't even have a lounge at AEP, Aeroméxico have a few domestic ones but don't use contract lounges in many/most places). Unless you specifically fly DL...

      Check in bags on short haul can cost more than the ticket itself, and sometimes a non-light fare isn't even that easy to purchase. Outside of the USA and maybe China, domestic flying is pretty limited and/or doesn't offer any kind of lounge access at all (e.g. Aerolíneas Argentinas don't even have a lounge at AEP, Aeroméxico have a few domestic ones but don't use contract lounges in many/most places). Unless you specifically fly DL domestic quite frequently, there's no comparison between the two benefits.

    5. --- Guest

      The no domestic lounge access for SkyTeam Elite Plus rule is changing soon btw: you'll soon be able to start accessing lounges domestically across the alliance I believe (unless you're a Delta elite trying to enter a Delta SkyClub).

  17. Parnel Guest

    Lipsey was Ben Smith's lackey. He learned to spin, corporate doublespeak from the best. Would not trust the guy who said that elite upgrades cheapen the cabin when he briefly posted on AC FT before he got pulled by his superiors with his tail between his legs.

    1. Ben S Guest

      Ummm the way I remember it was that AC decided the AC FT community was too toxic and it wasn’t worth their time.

      You may dislike the fact that AC doesn’t fill the J cabin with comp upgrades, but they were clear that their strategy is to have people pay (via cash or eUp) to sit in the front, maintaining some exclusivity.

    2. Pete Guest

      A Flyertalk community toxic?! Perish the thought!

    3. Parnel Guest

      It wasn't worth their time because people didn't fall for corporate doublespeak and being talked down to, so after making some wild statements, Smith pulled Lipsey back.
      Lipsey should be a cade study of early how not to interact with customers on social media.

      They would have a better time now when the (almost dead) AC forum only has (and is moderated by) AC shills.

    4. Greg Guest

      I personally agree with you and this article. However the sad fact I'd Delta has proven you don't need the sub $20,000 schmuck. AA also gutted the ExPlat program as far as perks. So I have been fired and I fly the best fare at the best time. Unfortunately Delta is still doing well. Switching redemptions away from points (no thanks 500k to Europe or availability only 2 days before departure routing through Austin and...

      I personally agree with you and this article. However the sad fact I'd Delta has proven you don't need the sub $20,000 schmuck. AA also gutted the ExPlat program as far as perks. So I have been fired and I fly the best fare at the best time. Unfortunately Delta is still doing well. Switching redemptions away from points (no thanks 500k to Europe or availability only 2 days before departure routing through Austin and Miami to Europe) Credit cards going more towards cash back or using Amex points to purchase J. Just sad at all the lifemiles, and Alaska and American points balances I still have. On the lookout to find ways to redeem my surplus points that fit my needs.

    5. David Guest

      I don't know how you can not cheapen the cabin by assuring people that they can pay for something called "elite status". To any experienced traveler in this age, flying on a commercial airline in any class is only acceptable as a cheap alternative to the comfort of private travel. You only get a civilized experience on out of the way routes used exclusively by professionals.

  18. Motion to Dismiss Diamond

    Ben Lipsey, if you’re reading this—please let FB Gold book AF La Premiere awards too!

    1. Jay Guest

      Its less then $3k to achieve platinum status from GOLD all why booking reward flights. I learned how from reading articles here. Last month upgraded from a Biz reward tix to La Premier and was the best $1700 I spent the ground service at CDG made an otherwise annoying journey with a 4 hour layover complete bliss!

    2. VladG Diamond

      Not going to happen. You can earn FB Gold with two TATL trips in J.

  19. CarstensChaos Guest

    Lipsey sounds like he's coming from a more client-centric perspective than BA or Lufthansa, who expects loyal clients to take spanking after spanking, always responding "Thank you Sir, may I have another."

    Time will tell if Flying Blue truly values loyal clients, as Lipsey indicates. Even with a revenue element, it will still beat the Kafkaesque horror show that is the Lufthansa client experience.

  20. Ben Guest

    Don't give Lipsey too much credit. Their app is crap when it comes to displaying awards and updating award balances. The UI sucks. Within the last year or so they removed the ability to find out how many miles it costs to upgrade Y to PY or Y to J before booking a ticket. You can't even get a range of how many miles an upgrade might cost out of a Platinum agent. The app...

    Don't give Lipsey too much credit. Their app is crap when it comes to displaying awards and updating award balances. The UI sucks. Within the last year or so they removed the ability to find out how many miles it costs to upgrade Y to PY or Y to J before booking a ticket. You can't even get a range of how many miles an upgrade might cost out of a Platinum agent. The app doesn't update mileage balances in any sort of predictable way. And the number of steps one has to take to log into your flying blue acct online is wild. Small but super annoying things.

  21. Richie C Guest

    I've been dreading this since I joined Flying Blue. I am at 8 years Platinum and already have my 300 XP for this year. My number one reason for sitting on Skyteam for the past nine years was this lifetime goal, but I always had in the back of my mind that 10 years was a long time for there not to be a change that would render it impossible to reach platinum... If it...

    I've been dreading this since I joined Flying Blue. I am at 8 years Platinum and already have my 300 XP for this year. My number one reason for sitting on Skyteam for the past nine years was this lifetime goal, but I always had in the back of my mind that 10 years was a long time for there not to be a change that would render it impossible to reach platinum... If it happens in my last year it will suck for sure... So I am now already cancelling loads of plans so that I can accumulate funds for next year in case I have some daft target to hit a la BA...

    1. VladG Diamond

      You are overreacting. They might introduce something like earning 25% of your XPs on AFKL or similar. Should be doable even for US-based members with a single trip to Europe each year.

  22. E39 Diamond

    I don’t like skyteam, but I (apart from sudden overnight devaluations) like this guy’s insight on the loyalty psychology

  23. AeroB13a Guest

    Some of us are on a very steep learning curve when it comes to understanding loyalty programs, points and airline status, etc. For this reason I have been digesting the content of blogs like this one for some time now. My prior preparation and planning has necessitated my taking onboard alternative credit cards with points, etc. How this will pan out once I have to spend my own hard-saved on airfares is anyone’s guess.
    ...

    Some of us are on a very steep learning curve when it comes to understanding loyalty programs, points and airline status, etc. For this reason I have been digesting the content of blogs like this one for some time now. My prior preparation and planning has necessitated my taking onboard alternative credit cards with points, etc. How this will pan out once I have to spend my own hard-saved on airfares is anyone’s guess.
    One thing is certain, if it’s a new Boeing, I ain’t going. Likewise, if I ever lose my staff privileges goodness knows where we will end up travelling to.

    1. E39 Diamond

      You should also learn from ORD:
      «If it’s star, I’ll go far. If it’s sky, I’ll probably die»

  24. Eric Schmidt Guest

    The problem for him will be that when every other program is going towards the revenue-based loyalty model:

    1) A relative very small slice of customers will be aware enough of the past way airline programs were, to be choosing to fly preferentially on the one airline that is different. Are they important enough a group to cater to?

    2) The airline will be under big pressure to show, why is it not getting...

    The problem for him will be that when every other program is going towards the revenue-based loyalty model:

    1) A relative very small slice of customers will be aware enough of the past way airline programs were, to be choosing to fly preferentially on the one airline that is different. Are they important enough a group to cater to?

    2) The airline will be under big pressure to show, why is it not getting outsized gains for not taking money that's on the table if it adopted the new $-loyalty model?

    Someone very high up at the program has to make a bet on this and justify it with profits in order to resist being told to follow the rest of the industry.

    1. Samo Guest

      Every other program going revenue-based is simply not true. IAG is going that way, but for example LHG has made their status programme even less revenue based with their revamp two years ago (not even booking class matters anymore, just the cabin).

  25. Beachfan Guest

    But he is a fan of unannounced devaluations. Happened at AF already this year.

    So I no longer believe what he says.

  26. FNT Delta Diamond Guest

    Some big swipes at Delta too.

  27. Mika Guest

    I like Lipsey a lot he is very active on Flyertalk and can be super insightful. I concur that changes are not coming super soon since they'll probably wait and see how BA works out, but also because BA had to switch everyone over to the same qualifying year before this change and FlyingBlue still uses individualised qualifying years. On top of that the last major change had over a year warming and up to...

    I like Lipsey a lot he is very active on Flyertalk and can be super insightful. I concur that changes are not coming super soon since they'll probably wait and see how BA works out, but also because BA had to switch everyone over to the same qualifying year before this change and FlyingBlue still uses individualised qualifying years. On top of that the last major change had over a year warming and up to 23 months warning for some members depending on the qualifying year period.

    1. Samo Guest

      There's absolutely no reason why revenue based system needs to use a unified qualification year. Yes, BA clearly wanted it that way and combined the two, but it's not a necessity. You can have a revenue based qualification with a rolling qualification period.

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Samo Guest

Ben is great, and it should also be noted that he engages with the community over at FT (and possibly other platforms). He gets it. I don't want the airline to pretend we are besties and love each other, I want a clear and honest communication about how they're gonna make my trips better in return for me spending more money with them. I don't want to be insulted like BA or LHG do. If you need to cut something, be honest about it, I understand that you are a business after all, don't pretend that I asked for it because that will just show that you take me for a fool. Look at how Flying Blue handled the end of unlimited XP rollover. There was no "it's better for you to not get status" BS like BA did. It was presented as something that needs to be done, and it also came with some carrot in addition to the stick. FB could very well just tell people that they're taking away their XP, tough luck. Instead they provided something meaningful to compensate for the devaluation of existing XP (converting them into years towards the lifetime status). This is how I want loyalty programmes to work. Take my money, give me something in return and don't treat me like an idiot.

4
FNT Delta Diamond Guest

Some big swipes at Delta too.

2
Weymar Osborne Diamond

Definitely agree with many of the points made. Just looking at my own situation, I'm by no means a road-warrior. Just a recent uni grad that values travel experiences more than the average person and takes a few international trips per year. I stay loyal to United (funny enough, actually because of Asiana's program) and have paid more to fly with them because I can keep earning towards the things I value most: lounge access, free baggage, and earning points with some decent value. For an upcoming Dublin-Denver roundtrip I'm looking at, UA is a little over $100 more expensive than the next option but I'll still probably book that itinerary to work towards retaining my Star Alliance Gold. Once Asiana gets absorbed by Korean Air however and I would need to switch to MileagePlus or something to maintain a Star Alliance program I can't imagine I'll continue to place such a preference for United (or any Star Alliance airline) since requirements will be higher to the point I probably can't reach them and I'll likely become a free agent. Don't know how much the spreadsheeters at major loyalty programs value my type of consumer but surely getting an extra $100 or 2 out of me on an economy itinerary isn't nothing.

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