Here in the blogosphere, we all have our opinions on the failures of American Airlines’ management, and what the solution is for the airline to improve its financial performance. I’ve certainly been vocal about my take.
However, in this post I’d like to focus on something different — not on what American management is saying, or what union leaders are saying, but instead, on what a blogger is saying about what a union leader is saying. Hopefully this doesn’t lead to a blogger responding to a blogger responding to a union leader… 😉
Blogger comments on comments of pilots union leader
Gary at View from the Wing posted a story titled “Why American Airlines’ Pilots Union Is Calling For A New CEO—Even As He Makes Changes It Wanted.” He references a story that quotes Captain Nick Silva, the President of the Allied Pilots Association, which represents American Airlines’ pilots:
“The pool of talent to lead airlines seems to be relatively small. It’s just the question of is there somebody out there who can turn the ship around faster? We have hope that there’s somebody out there who sees the potential here, who sees what we see, and is able to come in.”
“If that’s Robert, great. But if it’s not, somebody is able to come in and turn this place around and turn this into a place that we’re proud to work at again. Because that’s not what we have right now. I can categorically say that.”
It’s worth noting that this actually represents significantly scaled back criticism compared to what we’ve seen from Silva in the past, where the union demanded decisive action from the board.
Gary then proceeds to theorize on why the head of the pilots union would say such things, when American is now finally making positive changes:
However, it’s worth understanding why the pilots union is (1) out criticizing management, and (2) doing it now – precisely as management is largely doing the things that the union would have them doing (by Silva’s own admission).
- They’ve just opened contract negotiations with the airline early.
- They are looking to blame management for poor financial performance, to shift the narrative from poor performance means the airline can’t afford to invest more in a new contract to one that blames management for that poor performance.
- Indeed, the union’s opener in contract talks calls for a seat on the board (like pilots at Delta and United have). They’re framing themselves as the answer to mismanagement at the airline – that contract talks can solve for American’s financial problems, rather than being forestalled by them.
Sorry, I’m with the pilots union on this one…
I’ll be the first to acknowledge that I don’t think management nor unions at any company are perfect, and there are often performative politics at unions. However, I couldn’t disagree more with Gary here. For one, Gary says:
However, it’s worth understanding why the pilots union is (1) out criticizing management, and (2) doing it now
Um, Gary, the pilots union has been criticizing management for years. This is nothing new. The head of the union being quoted in a paywalled article is hardly the most radical attack we’ve seen from the union against management. Gary then also says:
They are looking to blame management for poor financial performance, to shift the narrative from poor performance means the airline can’t afford to invest more in a new contract to one that blames management for that poor performance.
They are “trying” to “shift” the narrative to one that blames the company’s poor financial performance on management? So… they’re saying the truth, or what am I not understanding here? Who is to blame? The frontline employees? Hillary Clinton’s emails?
Guys, this is very simple. Robert Isom has been either President or CEO of American since 2016. Over those 10 years, he has been paid $104,482,819. His tenure in those roles almost entirely coincides with the company’s downfall in terms of passenger experience (it was 2017 when American prototyped its new narrow body planes without seat back TVs, after spending the previous few years installing them).
And of course it’s not just passenger experience, it’s also financials. I mean, does this look like “winning?”
And keep in mind that Isom became President when former American President Scott Kirby went to United, where he’s now CEO. How’s that looking over there?
Is it so radical to think that there might be someone better suited for the job of CEO than Isom? And is it so unreasonable for the head a union to (surprisingly gently) pose that question? It’s almost as if Isom is part of some royal family, and he is entitled to that job unless the airline literally liquidates.
Yes, American is absolutely making positive changes right now, and I’m delighted to see them. However:
- I’m much more inclined to give the new Chief Commercial Officer, Nat Pieper (an outsider who only recently joined the airline) credit for that, rather than Isom, the guy who was behind many of the decisions that moved the company in the wrong direction
- I don’t think top executives at publicly traded companies who are making up to eight figures per year deserve second and third and fourth chances; like, you don’t get to burn the house down, and then rebuild it and say “oh, I just need more time,” while pocketing $100+ million
- While American is moving in the right direction, there’s still a lack of urgency; American still hasn’t announced plans to introduce Starlink fleet wide, and current estimates suggest it’ll be 2032 before all narrow body planes are retrofitted with seat back TVs
- While American has addressed customer experience, the airline hasn’t done anything to meaningfully improve morale among employees, and Isom has (understandably) lost the trust of frontline employees
I totally get Gary’s argument that “oh, it takes time to make changes, they don’t come overnight.” That’s exactly why it’s so inexcusable that management was asleep at the wheel for so long, because they got the company into a hole that will be very hard to dig out of. The problems that they created won’t just impact the airline right now, they’ll impact the airline for years, even if the company gets the most competent leader imaginable.
The best thing that could be done to turn the airline around in terms of morale is to have a new CEO who is an outsider, who can start with a clean slate, and maybe earn the trust of employees, because that’s something that Isom has permanently lost. I think Pieper would unarguably be a better fit for CEO, or someone like Air France-KLM CEO Ben Smith, who has a record of winning the trust of employees.
Guys, I’m not some American hater. I’ve been flying American as my primary airline for 15 years, and I want the airline to be great (Make American Great Again!). There’s nothing I’d love more than for the executives at Delta and United to get off their high horses about how American is cooked, and about how damn premium they are. But for anything to change, employees need a company they’re proud of, and someone at the helm who is willing to take decisive action.
Gary, sure, maybe the points you make are contributing factors to why the union head is making those comments. But why ignore the most obvious reason he made those comments, which is that they’re 100% correct. I’d ask Gary a simple question — does he think that Isom is the best man for the job of CEO at American right now? If not, why should he keep his job?
Bottom line
The head of American Airlines’ pilots union is continuing to criticize the company’s CEO, but if anything, he is toning down the harshness, compared to the past. View from the Wing argues that this is a negotiating tactic because contract negotiations have opened.
I strongly disagree with that premise. The union has been (understandably) criticizing management for years, given their lack of performance, so I’m not sure why we’re pretending that this is anything new. I understand many people don’t like unions, but that doesn’t mean that their leaders don’t sometimes make good points.
Even as American slowly moves in the right direction with passenger experience, the company still needs a new CEO, one who can win the trust of employees, and who can work with a bit more urgency. I think Robert Isom should take the $104+ million he has earned in the past decade, play some golf, and enjoy his life…
Who do you side with here?
AA's failure very closely mirrors that of Boeing. Both were led by incompetent management and "overseen" by a Board that was totally derelict in it's function of ensuring a properly run company. And neither would accept they severely damaged iconic companies.
Fortunately, AA's failures have not cost lives.
Gary is an Idiot! That pretty much sums it up.
10 years of failure - perhaps the whole board should be replaced.
Ah, the great irony of pilots feeling let down given it was their support of Parker, Isom and the USAir team that allowed them to take the helm. And the pilots gave their support because they thought they'd make more money. I guess you guys screwed up?
The union has every right, in fact obligation, to criticize a CEO who is damaging a company that employees people it represents. The union's criticism is right on and even mirrors criticism Gary makes. American doesn't need a few years and a new balance sheet to improve its performance. it needs a new leadership that can establish a new culture. There is no reason why that can't happen very quickly at a major US airline...
The union has every right, in fact obligation, to criticize a CEO who is damaging a company that employees people it represents. The union's criticism is right on and even mirrors criticism Gary makes. American doesn't need a few years and a new balance sheet to improve its performance. it needs a new leadership that can establish a new culture. There is no reason why that can't happen very quickly at a major US airline that is heavily unionized. It took Gordon Bethune only about one year at Continental.
Yes, this is nothing new from the APA and nothing new from the passenger perspective. The mere fact of early contract negotiations and the APA dialing down the rhetoric does not excuse the fact that dysfunction continues to exist post merge (2014-2015) between management and ALL labor groups, especially flight crew and maintenance.
Robert Isom has been an abysmal failure, but that shouldn't surprise anyone after following the footsteps of Doug Parker. Parker et all...
Yes, this is nothing new from the APA and nothing new from the passenger perspective. The mere fact of early contract negotiations and the APA dialing down the rhetoric does not excuse the fact that dysfunction continues to exist post merge (2014-2015) between management and ALL labor groups, especially flight crew and maintenance.
Robert Isom has been an abysmal failure, but that shouldn't surprise anyone after following the footsteps of Doug Parker. Parker et all kicked the snowball down the hill while Scott Kirby sought greener pastures with UAL and others departed either by induced resignation or being collateral damage by ineptness.
AAL was eventually led down this path by the entire AAL BOD (yes the Board has their fingerprints on this) since Isom has been at the helm. There's so much more to the story here than the public realizes, but as mentioned and shown in this article, all one has to do is look at the AAL stock price post merge to present date. There is absolutely no love from Wall Street. People who believe the latest actions by Isom and AAL are showing a turn are extremely late to the dance and all partners have left the floor.
It was said many times by management using the following analogy: "IT'S LIKE A SHIP AT SEA MAKING A TURN BACK TO PORT. IT TAKES TIME."
Obviously this was referencing the airline "turning around". Well over a decade has passed and the ship has done so many turns they don't know where port is. Unfortunately, the post BK leadership of AAL has missed the most important mark to turn around: Their employees. Sad.
The American Airlines problem from the customer side is that the front line employees don't care. And they are happy to let is show
Customer has a problem - so what?
American flight arrives 90 minutes late and missed connections: Big Yawn.
We had an AA agent tell us "Well you should have flown ________ airlines, they would treat you better!"
Gary and Ben's takes are not mutually exclusive. I'm not familiar with Gary writing anything complimentary about Isom although he does attribute some of Isom's failures to larger culture issues/board decisions.
But it is possible that the union statements are both true and positioning for negotiations - sometimes highlighting the truth is better than trying to spin things.
In 2026, unions are toxic. A refuge for the lazy and incompetent, led by fat cat union thug bosses who are professional agitators and add nothing of value. This is just a simple fact. And unions prove it to be true every single day of the week.
Given historic income disparity, runaway executive pay even for poor performance and rampant corruption at the highest levels of our society you choose to attack unions? Anon & you should get a clue.
Isom & AA management has problems but nothing pilots can't make worse.
My eyes automatically pre-roll of their own accord whenever I see something Gary wrote.
If Ben ever opens an OMAAT swag shop, we need a red hat that says MAAGA (Make American Airlines Great Again)!
I won't be surprised if some day i find out both Gary and Ben went back and forth on this issue to drive up the blog views.
Naw, that'd be the 'fights on planes' and 'dogs on planes' and 'look at what this scantily clad passenger wore on a flight' stories...
@1990
But, but, that makes money. Telling stories about a crap airline run by money grubbing thieves is like spending time with person who will not be named.
1990_ right.
They'd have to argue about a brawl on the plane and takes on a different side.
Like taking a side between the the guy who got taped to his seat vs a believer who cast miracle spells on this infidel.
*outrage*
If one cannot see that Isom has failed at American over the last several years and that change is needed, regardless of what the union stance, I’m not sure what else that person needs to see.
Paying hundreds of pilots up to $500K, in fat and rigid union contracts, where they steal seats from loyal first/business class passengers (sometimes visibly!), in an industry where computers/AI will quickly (dirty secret: have already become) safer options….definitely not on the right side of the trend! So in that sense, yes, I do blame management for agreeing to such absurd union demands! With union mentality, always remember there is a fixed barrel of money, and...
Paying hundreds of pilots up to $500K, in fat and rigid union contracts, where they steal seats from loyal first/business class passengers (sometimes visibly!), in an industry where computers/AI will quickly (dirty secret: have already become) safer options….definitely not on the right side of the trend! So in that sense, yes, I do blame management for agreeing to such absurd union demands! With union mentality, always remember there is a fixed barrel of money, and there is a race to the bottom of the barrel to grab it while you can!
Computers/AI can’t fly planes in fully integrated environments. Pilots are still vital.
It’s just not true, not keeping up with latest developments
And what, pray tell, are those developments?
Well, at least you don't think that Parker and Isom are/were overpaid.
need to get more popcorn :)
gary "libertarian" leff, is anti-union????? I'm shocked
(Libertarians... aka Republicans who are ashamed to admit they're Republicans.)
More like republicans who wish the republican party hadn't drifted so far from small-government conservatism.
(Suuure, Michael... that's the ticket... so, anyway, how'r you gonna spend your totally-happening, very-fiscally-responsible, definitely-not-a-bribe $5,000 'Trump dividend' check? Oh, and those DOGE and tariff checks should be 'in-the-mail' ...any-day-now. Come to think of it, when you also factor in his forcing of American companies like Intel to sell a 'golden share' to the government, he may actually be the most 'socialist' president in our lifetime. And, of course, he's a rabid nationalist. You could...
(Suuure, Michael... that's the ticket... so, anyway, how'r you gonna spend your totally-happening, very-fiscally-responsible, definitely-not-a-bribe $5,000 'Trump dividend' check? Oh, and those DOGE and tariff checks should be 'in-the-mail' ...any-day-now. Come to think of it, when you also factor in his forcing of American companies like Intel to sell a 'golden share' to the government, he may actually be the most 'socialist' president in our lifetime. And, of course, he's a rabid nationalist. You could say, he's a national-so... ah, never mind.)
Yes, almost all businesses try to remain “anti-union” (those meanies!) if they want to remain successful, long term, sustainable business. Doubt me? Please try starting a garment business or ship building business (among 100 other industries) in the U.S. and let me know when you make money……waiting…..
Anon, that's not even a good strawman. The 'nobody can make a profit if workers have rights' argument has been tired for a century. Besides, there are ample extremely profitable US Fortune top 50 companies that are already unionized. You ever heard of UPS, Kroger, Ford, GM, AT&T, Verizon? Within aviation, American, United, and others, are mostly unionized, and doing just fine. Meanwhile, Delta's flight attendants, baggage handlers, and maintenance technicians may have not yet...
Anon, that's not even a good strawman. The 'nobody can make a profit if workers have rights' argument has been tired for a century. Besides, there are ample extremely profitable US Fortune top 50 companies that are already unionized. You ever heard of UPS, Kroger, Ford, GM, AT&T, Verizon? Within aviation, American, United, and others, are mostly unionized, and doing just fine. Meanwhile, Delta's flight attendants, baggage handlers, and maintenance technicians may have not yet organized, but their pilots and dispatchers have, for a while now. So, you're really not making the 'great point' you might think you are.
Thank you for acknowledging my point!
For 'acknowledging' that it was flawed... you're welcome?
Gary is a clown who actually knows very little about the industry.
Retired from 40+yrs. airline employ (pilot/administration), married to ex American Airlines employee, fly only on AA. All the CEO has to do is make a couple of incognito flights (in Economy) to see all the improvements that need to be made. It hurts me to see the shambles every time I travel.
Feels like the unions care more about AA than the board
Lars says, "It's that the union is stepping outside the scope of its duties to make the statement"
Unions would be completely failing in their legal duty of fair representation if they did not highlight managerial incompetence. Their members' livelihoods are inextricably tied to the long-term success of their airlines, far more so than managers who move from one airline to another.
The issue isn't correctness of what the union is saying.
It's that the union is stepping outside the scope of its duties to make the statement, AND doing this after AA management has given the union literally everything it has wanted for the past several years.
As union boss, the job is to turn the screws on management for pay and benefits increases. If you get them to the extent you want them...you...
The issue isn't correctness of what the union is saying.
It's that the union is stepping outside the scope of its duties to make the statement, AND doing this after AA management has given the union literally everything it has wanted for the past several years.
As union boss, the job is to turn the screws on management for pay and benefits increases. If you get them to the extent you want them...you get out of management's hair until it's time to turn the screws again. That's the deal. Break from that and you remove management's incentive to keep giving you what you want so easily.
It's the job of stockholders and the BoD to pressure management on profitability. And frankly, it's a conflict of interest for a union boss to pretend to care about stock price.
Of course, the primary focus of a union is representing their members, advocating for better wages, benefits, and protections; however, if profit-sharing is one of those benefits, then they very much do care about stock price and corporate performance overall as well. They aren’t going to self-censor, unless it’s helpful. They’ll say whatever they think is in their members best interests, like any decent representation would.
Primary focus of union is making money for leadership and do just enough to keep members and convince they're better off with collective bargaining.
Those who make the most of their membership are those who break the rule, underperform, or a free loader.
As Tim Dunn can attest at Delta.
Eskimo, that's a very cynical view; good news for members, they can vote bad union leadership out; better yet, they can run for leadership themselves (that would be truly 'making the most' of their membership). However, they cannot 'run' for management of the company. I know that you know the nuance here.
As for Tim, just why... he's clearly pro-one-specific-airline, and within that subset, pro-management and pro-shareholder, while also vocally anti-union, on here, in...
Eskimo, that's a very cynical view; good news for members, they can vote bad union leadership out; better yet, they can run for leadership themselves (that would be truly 'making the most' of their membership). However, they cannot 'run' for management of the company. I know that you know the nuance here.
As for Tim, just why... he's clearly pro-one-specific-airline, and within that subset, pro-management and pro-shareholder, while also vocally anti-union, on here, in the past and elsewhere (even though Delta's pilots have had one since 1934!) I know he hasn't been on here for a little while, but let's at least try to be accurate.
First, APA is not stepping outside the scope of its duties at all. The APA's primary duty is to advocate for its members, and improving AA's management is in the best interest of the APA membership.
Second, management has not even remotely given APA "literally everything it has wanted"! In addition to sticking the AA pilots with a subpar contract compared to United and Delta, AA management also violates that subpar left and right...
First, APA is not stepping outside the scope of its duties at all. The APA's primary duty is to advocate for its members, and improving AA's management is in the best interest of the APA membership.
Second, management has not even remotely given APA "literally everything it has wanted"! In addition to sticking the AA pilots with a subpar contract compared to United and Delta, AA management also violates that subpar left and right with impunity. Grievances sit unanswered and unarbitrared.
I'm not sure where you got the idea that management just easily gives APA whatever they want, but it's sadly misguided.
That's not the deal. A union is obligated to represent 24/7/365. A union would violate its duty by not criticising management and managers when their decisions threaten the ability to provide improved pay, benefis, working conditions and long-term employment and advancement prospects.
AA Management has screwed the pooch and it's going to take years and millions to come back, and it may never catch up to UA and DL. That being said, the goal of any union is to complain about management. Otherwise, what would be their justification for existence? If management was doing everything right then it's members might question why are they paying dues for a union.
"That being said, the goal of any union is to complain about management. Otherwise, what would be their justification for existence?"
Yay! More RWNJ hogwash, as if the day is scheduled around these union-bashing posts.
If management were doing everything right, then "American Airlines" would be called "Air France" and there would be harmonious relationships between management and the workers.
If you would please turn down the Fox/OAN/Newmax for one second, the "goal of any union" is to represent their members. Even if management was 'doing everything right,' that doesn't last forever. Yikes, we need better education so that folks stop buying into corporate propaganda against organized labor. Collective bargaining has secured valuable protections, wages, and benefits for countless workers and their families. See, the eight-hour workday, the weekend, workplace safety standards, and employer-backed healthcare....
If you would please turn down the Fox/OAN/Newmax for one second, the "goal of any union" is to represent their members. Even if management was 'doing everything right,' that doesn't last forever. Yikes, we need better education so that folks stop buying into corporate propaganda against organized labor. Collective bargaining has secured valuable protections, wages, and benefits for countless workers and their families. See, the eight-hour workday, the weekend, workplace safety standards, and employer-backed healthcare. Whether you like it or not, unions and their members are part of what makes the American Dream.
the biggest problem with AA is that all the people that have "Seen the light" or making the changes to premium (nat aside) are the same ones that cut everything and anything premium there for years. They don't really know what they're doing and basically just look at others to see what to do vs a real understanding of how and what works.
In most companies, employees who undermine their amployers tend to get fired.
Who is undermining here?
Vocalizing "no confidence" with management, out loud, is hardly "undermining." It's disagreeing, full stop. There is nothing sneaky or sinister here.
Thank goodness there are unions to allow labor to vocalize frustrations with management.
Willy - executives undermine .
I respectfully disagree. Badmouthing a company in public undermines it. Disagreements among employers and employees should be aired in private, not dragged through the media.
Then maybe they should run a profitable airline and everyone would be happy
Then maybe they should run a profitable airline and everyone would be happy
DesertGhost, you forgot to add your typical one-liner: "And you've been CEO of how many airlines?" (or, an equivalent 'gatekeeper'-trope.)
@1990,
I didn't forget anything. I don't write comments simply to write comments, and I don't use facetious and sarcastic phrases arbitrarily or carelessly. I carefully choose what I write - and I use facetious or sarcastic lines only when I believe they're warranted - always trying to be facetious, even though a note of sarcasm sneaks in from time to time.
DesertGhost... okie dokie, artichokie... easy peasy, lemon squeezie...
A good old-fashioned cAAT fight...
The interesting question isn’t whether American is finally making the right changes, because increasingly it seems they are (or at least showing they are). It’s why so many of those changes took this long in the first place. I’m happy to see the investment, but when some of the fixes will take years to reach the entire fleet, “we’re improving now” only goes so far. You can pledge to change strategy overnight but unfortunately you...
The interesting question isn’t whether American is finally making the right changes, because increasingly it seems they are (or at least showing they are). It’s why so many of those changes took this long in the first place. I’m happy to see the investment, but when some of the fixes will take years to reach the entire fleet, “we’re improving now” only goes so far. You can pledge to change strategy overnight but unfortunately you can’t install a seatback screen quite as quickly.
It's cute to see bloggers argue over a made-up disagreement.
You guys are missing the boat but you're so enamoured with your own voice you'd rather argue about who's yelling ""I'm drowning, I'm drowning' in a better way.
For example, you have accepted the begged question fiction of "hard product" vs "hard product." Simply put you've allowed the airlines not to provide on-time flights with backups for maintenance, real seat assignment, no random deboarding, but...
It's cute to see bloggers argue over a made-up disagreement.
You guys are missing the boat but you're so enamoured with your own voice you'd rather argue about who's yelling ""I'm drowning, I'm drowning' in a better way.
For example, you have accepted the begged question fiction of "hard product" vs "hard product." Simply put you've allowed the airlines not to provide on-time flights with backups for maintenance, real seat assignment, no random deboarding, but IT'S ALL OK if they have Starlink, or if the bed goes beyond 150°. ("Lay flat" isn't 180° on most).
If you can't fly me from point A to point B as per expectations everywhere except the contractual carve-out from regular contract law airlines get, I don't really care how soft the pillow is, or what the IFE is, or whether it's time to publish the 4-times-a-year don't drink the coffee "story". Passengers are called "passengers" because THAT is the point. Soft product is extra AFTER delivery of the primary service.
Then you need to learn to separate the "airline" (see "hard product" above) from the public corporation with shareholders, 10Ks, $104M/yr CEOs, unions making money for DECADES with no appreciable results. This is vastly different than running an airline, particularly as the largest airlines earn more from affinity programs than by flying people.
So for the average flyer, all the major airlines are failures. They created the stupid standard of on-time means "mostly on-time within the expanded timeframes we made up out of wole cloth" and "but look at our soft-product" and their corporate goal is to bring revenue through affinity programs and get people to hold their stock long until someone else wants it for more -- gambling like with Bitcoin
Innocence involves not doing the wrong thing, and one of you is a sociopath who took his small children in first class on an intercontinental trip. Yes, you win sociopath of the year, and you should hold no pride in making life difficult for the FAs and other passengers who paid good money not to hear your children. Airplane first class cabines are not kid playgrounds.
But sociopaths abound in this industry. Scott Kirby recently spewed crap out his mouth by saying he needs 8.5hrs/night of sleep, won't let a meeting go for more than 4hrs, and submit all slide-decks before the meeting. I guess when you're getting paid $100M+ you can be a total sociopath who doesn't care about THE MESSAGE, only how it's plated on silver for his enjoyment.
Take the Scott Kirbys and the union reps and the people lavishing praise on these sociopathic attempts to evade any responsibility for being unable to run an airline and that's what we have. OMAAT, SF, VFTW, TPG, you write a lot but you do nothing useful. Sometimes you inform, usually with no external links or primary sources. Ego much?
Keep on posting your resumes here as to how long you've known Mike or Ben or whomever. Enjoy your little club, maybe even in a club, at the airport. Where some of you may note children with feet on furniture, and others of you will imagine that's a right they've earned.
You want to make a difference?
- Unite. Deliver a common message.
- Tell the CEOs to split tasks so a COO handles airline ops and the CEO handles investor relations.
- The two don't get to meet without recorded minutes.
- Have the pilots and FAs provide realistic representatives and throw the union reps out.
- Both CEO and COO talk to the Union rep.
Please do go on about how you all know each other, and you all know union negotiation, and CEOs make too much. That hasn't gotten tiresome in the last ten years so I imagine your readers can't wait for more.
Best wishes for one day wanting to make a diferrence.
gavron - Please summarize in 26 words or less . Otherwise , you won't get credit for the course .
Alert, I got you, bruh. Our pal, gavron, seems to be saying: "In this era, some airlines are failing at their core transportation mission, pushing financial gimmicks while overpaid executives and bloggers distract everyone with useless debates." Just 25 words. Happier?
So... you're saying you don't want to listen to the podcast?
If you don't think that OMAAT and VFTW have been tirelessly advocating for ATC improvements, airlines to actually invest in maintenance of their planes, etc., then I'm not sure what blogs you've been reading. They also have articles on all sorts of things because, you know, those articles generate clicks and revenue and they have families that they'd like to feed.
And speaking of...
So... you're saying you don't want to listen to the podcast?
If you don't think that OMAAT and VFTW have been tirelessly advocating for ATC improvements, airlines to actually invest in maintenance of their planes, etc., then I'm not sure what blogs you've been reading. They also have articles on all sorts of things because, you know, those articles generate clicks and revenue and they have families that they'd like to feed.
And speaking of families - kids belong wherever they have an assigned seat. I frequently have more problem with the entitled adults than with the kids.
Senior executives don't get to meet without recorded minutes? Okie dokie. You do realize that OMAAT/VFTW are basically having a conversation with each other in these comments about how forcefully the union should be pushing for the current CEO to be pushed out in favor of the current CCO, right?
Meanwhile, I'm not a paid influencer for these blogs, so what do I care? I'll just have to figure out how to become a #deltapartner so that I can *extoll the virtues* of a bunch of cases of wine that large wine manufacturers were having trouble selling.
@peter_ Not sure how much money is in that, but... https://www.youtube.com/shorts/tYJU9hCBdDs *facepalm*
Someone obviously never got promoted to middle management.
It's cute to see some supervisor who knows better than everyone else.
You want to make a difference?
Stop following what you think, and maybe you might make it to middle management before you're forced to retire.
Ben , if you write : "I couldn't disagree more" ; are you writing that "I disagree" ? If so , why not?
May you please clarify your clarification?
1990 - the simpler the better , says Cornell U.
Wait till u get a veteran from Harvard.
I, as a Harvard grad, couldn't disagree more. Hooah.
Eskimo, were you doing an Al Pacino as blind retired Lieutenant Colonel Frank Slade in the 1992 film Scent of a Woman? "HOO-AH!!!"
A monthly OMAAT-VFTW-LALF podcast would be very entertaining and attract an audience. Just saying…
If you can also get the good folks at DoC, FM, and Cranky Flier to join-in, too, I’d say that’s a grand-slam. Am I missing anyone in the points-miles-travel-cards-banks blog sphere?
Nah, the FM folks do their own thing. I'd be much more interested in the OMAAT-VFTW-LALF "Strike Force Three" or whatever they want to call it. As @Gary said, they've know each other for quite a long time.
@peter_ Alrighty then. It's settled. This specific club is just 3: Ben, Gary, and Matthew. (Sorry, Jeremy and Howie; and Kyle). Greg, Nick, Stephen, Carrie, Tim... keep doing your own thing. William and Chuck, stay anonymous. Brett (and Andrew), you do you, too. (There aren't that many other blogs on these topics with as much 'community engagement,' are there?)
yeah, 1990
I don't think we'd want the Cranky/DoC/FM guys on this podcast.
All nice guys but they just come across as a bunch of middle aged white guys chatting on a.net in their podcast. It's fun, but there isn't usually much new information on there you haven't already read from someone else.
Welp, it's been said: 'there's three ways to do things'... the Ben way, the Gary way, and the Matthew way... (also, the Max Power way!)
I would show up for that! I guess I've known Ben now for 20 years, and Matthew for more than 15...
It would be a fantastic podcast and I would listen to it every month. Please do it!
@gary
@lucky
@thaimassagesaunainNuuk
Do it!!!!
It would be so great!
Max, good news; he's well-aware! Matthew Klint, September 17, 2026 at 9:30 am, says: "I’ve already joined in privately – maybe I’ll weigh in publicly." https://liveandletsfly.com/nuuk-international-airport-lounge/
eh, LALF is way too MAGA to be interesting, and i stopped reading VFTW as it's too MAGA-adjacent ("libertarian" protestations notwithstanding)
I did not say the head of the pilots union was wrong!
I simply explained the timing of the comments (and I think I explain how the recent earlier comments fit in, at least implicitly, given the internal fight over merging with ALPA and lead-up to the early opener) and the irony of making those criticisms precisely as the airline began doing many of the things they're criticized for failing to do. Should've been earlier!...
I did not say the head of the pilots union was wrong!
I simply explained the timing of the comments (and I think I explain how the recent earlier comments fit in, at least implicitly, given the internal fight over merging with ALPA and lead-up to the early opener) and the irony of making those criticisms precisely as the airline began doing many of the things they're criticized for failing to do. Should've been earlier! That's true! But that doesn't have nearly the force of not doing them.
Saying the pilots union is right is not actually disputing what I wrote. :-) I think you're saying i'm being overly generous to American and Isom but I wasn't making a normative case for them, merely a descriptive one that offers context for current events.
And in any case, over the past decade I do not think there has been anyone more vocally and consistently critical of American Airlines (and of Isom) than I have...?
@ Gary Leff -- I struggle with attributing the timing of comments to any other consideration when Silva has also made (much harsher) public comments about Isom in January, February, March, May, and August. He's just continuing to do what he has done all along.
Regarding the irony of Silva's comments as American actually makes the changes he has been calling for, I think his updated statement is really accurate, and reflects what we're seeing....
@ Gary Leff -- I struggle with attributing the timing of comments to any other consideration when Silva has also made (much harsher) public comments about Isom in January, February, March, May, and August. He's just continuing to do what he has done all along.
Regarding the irony of Silva's comments as American actually makes the changes he has been calling for, I think his updated statement is really accurate, and reflects what we're seeing. He poses the question of whether there is someone who could get the work done faster, which seems like an appropriate question.
And you're right, you didn't say the head of the pilots union was wrong... but you didn't say he was right, and you didn't even acknowledge that a possible reason for his comments was just that he's continuing to make comments as he has made all along.
As I see it, these are two separate things. Yes, contract negotiations are starting. And yes, Silva is still understandably frustrated with Isom. I don't know why there needs to be a cause and effect relationship between those two things.
Ben,
Thank you for acknowledging that I never said he was wrong! This was an explanatory piece not a normative one. Arguing he's right does not disagree with anything I've written. So, contra your title, no need to say 'sorry' ;-)
You don't mention the Air Line Pilots Association at all in your piece. Understanding why it's to the APA head's benefit to make these comments requires understanding both what they're looking for in negotiations...
Ben,
Thank you for acknowledging that I never said he was wrong! This was an explanatory piece not a normative one. Arguing he's right does not disagree with anything I've written. So, contra your title, no need to say 'sorry' ;-)
You don't mention the Air Line Pilots Association at all in your piece. Understanding why it's to the APA head's benefit to make these comments requires understanding both what they're looking for in negotiations and the union's internal politics.
- blaming management for the airline's poor financial performance reframes negotiations from 'there's not enough money to pay more' to 'get a good contract done and we'll help fix things'. APA wants this role, too, because they are seeking a seat on the Board of Directors like United and Delta pilots have.
- and Silva needs to be seen as aggressive, his predecessor was bounced from the role in a 15-5 board vote. They're struggling to find a way to merge with ALPA (which charges higher dues and insists on taking away some local autonomy) and they even just changed their bylaws to reduce the threshold of pilots needed to make a merger happen, even as support among Ameircan's pilots for the merger appears to have fallen.
Silva can be *right* in his comments about the mistakes American has made and also be choosing to make them publicly to posture for his membership and in the negotiations.
And the particular post you're calling out was simply focusing on reasons for the public posture, when 90%+ of my American Airlines posts over the past decade have focused on the mistakes.
Best,
Gary
The girls are fighting!
*meowing intensifies*
(Don’t worry, this isn’t a radio frequency with ATC near DCA… #callback)
"blocked"
Did they ever catch those guys?
(Also, if you see the ‘site improvements’ tab, Jeremy says they’re working on adding a ‘block’ feature for OMAAT Platinum and Diamond members… but, you wouldn’t wanna miss out on all the ‘banter’ on here now would ya?)
Don't see this side of Ben often ha ha
I just find it so selfish that Tim Dunn hasn't accepted the Delta CEO job offer, freeing up Ed Bastian to help American out.
Ben can you start filtering out these comments? This article has nothing to do with Delta or Ed and Tim hasn't even commented here yet. These comments are more annoying than Tim ever was/is.
(Where have you been, Powerball?? Tim's been boycotting OMAAT for the better part of this month; he even won a $100 prize for most "Yowzers!" in August, but likely doesn't even know to collect it!)
perhaps he put on glasses with a fake mustache and got DL to hire him back
Friends don’t let friends read other Aviation Blogs. Boo.
Thanks Ben, good points. (you did lose me with the MAGA comments, perhaps you have been in Florida to long)
@ Traveler -- Make AmericaN Great Again is the only part of the MAGA movement I'm a part of. :-)
America didn't need to be made great again, until MAGA showed up
Man you got some energy, feeling it all the way from Asia 😀
@ CR -- Hah, you don't have to feel it very far, because I'm Asia as well!
Time for some spicy noodles … and some even spicier commentary! *slurp*
I couldn’t agree with you more. there is no other industry where constant failure doesn’t lead to being led out the door. While I understand giving things a chance to work themselves out, this is way past the “expiration date.”