A response to View From The Wing's take on the American Airlines pilots union chief calling for a new CEO — and why the union has a point.
I couldn’t agree with you more. there is no other industry where constant failure doesn’t lead to being led out the door. While I understand giving things a chance to work themselves out, this is way past the “expiration date.”
Man you got some energy, feeling it all the way from Asia 😀
Thanks Ben, good points. (you did lose me with the MAGA comments, perhaps you have been in Florida to long)
@ Traveler -- Make AmericaN Great Again is the only part of the MAGA movement I'm a part of. 🙂
Friends don’t let friends read other Aviation Blogs. Boo.
I just find it so selfish that Tim Dunn hasn't accepted the Delta CEO job offer, freeing up Ed Bastian to help American out.
Ben can you start filtering out these comments? This article has nothing to do with Delta or Ed and Tim hasn't even commented here yet. These comments are more annoying than Tim ever was/is.
(Where have you been, Powerball?? Tim's been boycotting OMAAT for the better part of this month; he even won a $100 prize for most "Yowzers!" in August, but likely doesn't even know to collect it!)
Don't see this side of Ben often ha ha
I did not say the head of the pilots union was wrong!
I simply explained the timing of the comments (and I think I explain how the recent earlier comments fit in, at least implicitly, given the internal fight over merging with ALPA and lead-up to the early opener) and the irony of making those criticisms precisely as the airline began doing many of the things they're criticized for failing to do. Should've been earlier! That's true! But that doesn't have nearly the force of not doing them.
Saying the pilots union is right is not actually disputing what I wrote. 🙂 I think you're saying i'm being overly generous to American and Isom but I wasn't making a normative case for them, merely a descriptive one that offers context for current events.
And in any case, over the past decade I do not think there has been anyone more vocally and consistently critical of American Airlines (and of Isom) than I have...?
@ Gary Leff -- I struggle with attributing the timing of comments to any other consideration when Silva has also made (much harsher) public comments about Isom in January, February, March, May, and August. He's just continuing to do what he has done all along.
Regarding the irony of Silva's comments as American actually makes the changes he has been calling for, I think his updated statement is really accurate, and reflects what we're seeing. He poses the question of whether there is someone who could get the work done faster, which seems like an appropriate question.
And you're right, you didn't say the head of the pilots union was wrong... but you didn't say he was right, and you didn't even acknowledge that a possible reason for his comments was just that he's continuing to make comments as he has made all along.
As I see it, these are two separate things. Yes, contract negotiations are starting. And yes, Silva is still understandably frustrated with Isom. I don't know why there needs to be a cause and effect relationship between those two things.
Ben,
Thank you for acknowledging that I never said he was wrong! This was an explanatory piece not a normative one. Arguing he's right does not disagree with anything I've written. So, contra your title, no need to say 'sorry' 😉
You don't mention the Air Line Pilots Association at all in your piece. Understanding why it's to the APA head's benefit to make these comments requires understanding both what they're looking for in negotiations and the union's internal politics.
- blaming management for the airline's poor financial performance reframes negotiations from 'there's not enough money to pay more' to 'get a good contract done and we'll help fix things'. APA wants this role, too, because they are seeking a seat on the Board of Directors like United and Delta pilots have.
- and Silva needs to be seen as aggressive, his predecessor was bounced from the role in a 15-5 board vote. They're struggling to find a way to merge with ALPA (which charges higher dues and insists on taking away some local autonomy) and they even just changed their bylaws to reduce the threshold of pilots needed to make a merger happen, even as support among Ameircan's pilots for the merger appears to have fallen.
Silva can be *right* in his comments about the mistakes American has made and also be choosing to make them publicly to posture for his membership and in the negotiations.
And the particular post you're calling out was simply focusing on reasons for the public posture, when 90%+ of my American Airlines posts over the past decade have focused on the mistakes.
Best,
Gary
*meowing intensifies*
(Don’t worry, this isn’t a radio frequency with ATC near DCA… #callback)
Did they ever catch those guys?
(Also, if you see the ‘site improvements’ tab, Jeremy says they’re working on adding a ‘block’ feature for OMAAT Platinum and Diamond members… but, you wouldn’t wanna miss out on all the ‘banter’ on here now would ya?)
A monthly OMAAT-VFTW-LALF podcast would be very entertaining and attract an audience. Just saying…
If you can also get the good folks at DoC, FM, and Cranky Flier to join-in, too, I’d say that’s a grand-slam. Am I missing anyone in the points-miles-travel-cards-banks blog sphere?
Nah, the FM folks do their own thing. I'd be much more interested in the OMAAT-VFTW-LALF "Strike Force Three" or whatever they want to call it. As @Gary said, they've know each other for quite a long time.
@peter_ Alrighty then. It's settled. This specific club is just 3: Ben, Gary, and Matthew. (Sorry, Jeremy and Howie; and Kyle). Greg, Nick, Stephen, Carrie, Tim... keep doing your own thing. William and Chuck, stay anonymous. Brett (and Andrew), you do you, too. (There aren't that many other blogs on these topics with as much 'community engagement,' are there?)
yeah, 1990
I don't think we'd want the Cranky/DoC/FM guys on this podcast.
All nice guys but they just come across as a bunch of middle aged white guys chatting on a.net in their podcast. It's fun, but there isn't usually much new information on there you haven't already read from someone else.
I would show up for that! I guess I've known Ben now for 20 years, and Matthew for more than 15...
It would be a fantastic podcast and I would listen to it every month. Please do it!
Max, good news; he's well-aware! Matthew Klint, September 17, 2026 at 9:30 am, says: "I’ve already joined in privately – maybe I’ll weigh in publicly." https://liveandletsfly.com/nuuk-international-airport-lounge/
eh, LALF is way too MAGA to be interesting, and i stopped reading VFTW as it's too MAGA-adjacent ("libertarian" protestations notwithstanding)
I realize you're 'notmad' and all, but... I'd consider VFTW more 'right-wing' than LALF, in terms of its comments sections (though, arguably, neither is a full-blown mouthpiece for this admin.) As I've said before on there, it can't be just 'View from the (Right) Wing.' Usually, we need two (sides) of the wing to fly. So, 'be the (comment section) you want to see in the world!'
Ben , if you write : "I couldn't disagree more" ; are you writing that "I disagree" ? If so , why not?
Wait till u get a veteran from Harvard.
I, as a Harvard grad, couldn't disagree more. Hooah.
Eskimo, were you doing an Al Pacino as blind retired Lieutenant Colonel Frank Slade in the 1992 film Scent of a Woman? "HOO-AH!!!"
It's cute to see bloggers argue over a made-up disagreement.
You guys are missing the boat but you're so enamoured with your own voice you'd rather argue about who's yelling ""I'm drowning, I'm drowning' in a better way.
For example, you have accepted the begged question fiction of "hard product" vs "hard product." Simply put you've allowed the airlines not to provide on-time flights with backups for maintenance, real seat assignment, no random deboarding, but IT'S ALL OK if they have Starlink, or if the bed goes beyond 150°. ("Lay flat" isn't 180° on most).
If you can't fly me from point A to point B as per expectations everywhere except the contractual carve-out from regular contract law airlines get, I don't really care how soft the pillow is, or what the IFE is, or whether it's time to publish the 4-times-a-year don't drink the coffee "story". Passengers are called "passengers" because THAT is the point. Soft product is extra AFTER delivery of the primary service.
Then you need to learn to separate the "airline" (see "hard product" above) from the public corporation with shareholders, 10Ks, $104M/yr CEOs, unions making money for DECADES with no appreciable results. This is vastly different than running an airline, particularly as the largest airlines earn more from affinity programs than by flying people.
So for the average flyer, all the major airlines are failures. They created the stupid standard of on-time means "mostly on-time within the expanded timeframes we made up out of wole cloth" and "but look at our soft-product" and their corporate goal is to bring revenue through affinity programs and get people to hold their stock long until someone else wants it for more -- gambling like with Bitcoin
Innocence involves not doing the wrong thing, and one of you is a sociopath who took his small children in first class on an intercontinental trip. Yes, you win sociopath of the year, and you should hold no pride in making life difficult for the FAs and other passengers who paid good money not to hear your children. Airplane first class cabines are not kid playgrounds.
But sociopaths abound in this industry. Scott Kirby recently spewed crap out his mouth by saying he needs 8.5hrs/night of sleep, won't let a meeting go for more than 4hrs, and submit all slide-decks before the meeting. I guess when you're getting paid $100M+ you can be a total sociopath who doesn't care about THE MESSAGE, only how it's plated on silver for his enjoyment.
Take the Scott Kirbys and the union reps and the people lavishing praise on these sociopathic attempts to evade any responsibility for being unable to run an airline and that's what we have. OMAAT, SF, VFTW, TPG, you write a lot but you do nothing useful. Sometimes you inform, usually with no external links or primary sources. Ego much?
Keep on posting your resumes here as to how long you've known Mike or Ben or whomever. Enjoy your little club, maybe even in a club, at the airport. Where some of you may note children with feet on furniture, and others of you will imagine that's a right they've earned.
You want to make a difference?
- Unite. Deliver a common message.
- Tell the CEOs to split tasks so a COO handles airline ops and the CEO handles investor relations.
- The two don't get to meet without recorded minutes.
- Have the pilots and FAs provide realistic representatives and throw the union reps out.
- Both CEO and COO talk to the Union rep.
Please do go on about how you all know each other, and you all know union negotiation, and CEOs make too much. That hasn't gotten tiresome in the last ten years so I imagine your readers can't wait for more.
Best wishes for one day wanting to make a diferrence.
gavron - Please summarize in 26 words or less . Otherwise , you won't get credit for the course .
Alert, I got you, bruh. Our pal, gavron, seems to be saying: "In this era, some airlines are failing at their core transportation mission, pushing financial gimmicks while overpaid executives, unions, and bloggers distract everyone with useless debates." 26 words. Happier?
So... you're saying you don't want to listen to the podcast?
If you don't think that OMAAT and VFTW have been tirelessly advocating for ATC improvements, airlines to actually invest in maintenance of their planes, etc., then I'm not sure what blogs you've been reading. They also have articles on all sorts of things because, you know, those articles generate clicks and revenue and they have families that they'd like to feed.
And speaking of families - kids belong wherever they have an assigned seat. I frequently have more problem with the entitled adults than with the kids.
Senior executives don't get to meet without recorded minutes? Okie dokie. You do realize that OMAAT/VFTW are basically having a conversation with each other in these comments about how forcefully the union should be pushing for the current CEO to be pushed out in favor of the current CCO, right?
Meanwhile, I'm not a paid influencer for these blogs, so what do I care? I'll just have to figure out how to become a #deltapartner so that I can *extoll the virtues* of a bunch of cases of wine that large wine manufacturers were having trouble selling.
@peter_ Not sure how much money is in that, but... https://www.youtube.com/shorts/tYJU9hCBdDs *facepalm*
Someone obviously never got promoted to middle management.
It's cute to see some supervisor who knows better than everyone else.
You want to make a difference?
Stop following what you think, and maybe you might make it to middle management before you're forced to retire.
The interesting question isn’t whether American is finally making the right changes, because increasingly it seems they are (or at least showing they are). It’s why so many of those changes took this long in the first place. I’m happy to see the investment, but when some of the fixes will take years to reach the entire fleet, “we’re improving now” only goes so far. You can pledge to change strategy overnight but unfortunately you can’t install a seatback screen quite as quickly.
A good old-fashioned cAAT fight...
In most companies, employees who undermine their amployers tend to get fired.
Who is undermining here?
Vocalizing "no confidence" with management, out loud, is hardly "undermining." It's disagreeing, full stop. There is nothing sneaky or sinister here.
Thank goodness there are unions to allow labor to vocalize frustrations with management.
I respectfully disagree. Badmouthing a company in public undermines it. Disagreements among employers and employees should be aired in private, not dragged through the media.
DesertGhost, you forgot to add your typical one-liner: "And you've been CEO of how many airlines?" (or, an equivalent 'gatekeeper'-trope.)
@1990,
I didn't forget anything. I don't write comments simply to write comments, and I don't use facetious and sarcastic phrases arbitrarily or carelessly. I carefully choose what I write - and I use facetious or sarcastic lines only when I believe they're warranted - always trying to be facetious, even though a note of sarcasm sneaks in from time to time.
the biggest problem with AA is that all the people that have "Seen the light" or making the changes to premium (nat aside) are the same ones that cut everything and anything premium there for years. They don't really know what they're doing and basically just look at others to see what to do vs a real understanding of how and what works.
AA Management has screwed the pooch and it's going to take years and millions to come back, and it may never catch up to UA and DL. That being said, the goal of any union is to complain about management. Otherwise, what would be their justification for existence? If management was doing everything right then it's members might question why are they paying dues for a union.
"That being said, the goal of any union is to complain about management. Otherwise, what would be their justification for existence?"
Yay! More RWNJ hogwash, as if the day is scheduled around these union-bashing posts.
If management were doing everything right, then "American Airlines" would be called "Air France" and there would be harmonious relationships between management and the workers.
If you would please turn down the Fox/OAN/Newmax for one second, the "goal of any union" is to represent their members. Even if management was 'doing everything right,' that doesn't last forever. Yikes, we need better education so that folks stop buying into corporate propaganda against organized labor. Collective bargaining has secured valuable protections, wages, and benefits for countless workers and their families. See, the eight-hour workday, the weekend, workplace safety standards, and employer-backed healthcare. Whether you like it or not, unions and their members are part of what makes the American Dream.
The issue isn't correctness of what the union is saying.
It's that the union is stepping outside the scope of its duties to make the statement, AND doing this after AA management has given the union literally everything it has wanted for the past several years.
As union boss, the job is to turn the screws on management for pay and benefits increases. If you get them to the extent you want them...you get out of management's hair until it's time to turn the screws again. That's the deal. Break from that and you remove management's incentive to keep giving you what you want so easily.
It's the job of stockholders and the BoD to pressure management on profitability. And frankly, it's a conflict of interest for a union boss to pretend to care about stock price.
Of course, the primary focus of a union is representing their members, advocating for better wages, benefits, and protections; however, if profit-sharing is one of those benefits, then they very much do care about stock price and corporate performance overall as well. They aren’t going to self-censor, unless it’s helpful. They’ll say whatever they think is in their members best interests, like any decent representation would.
Primary focus of union is making money for leadership and do just enough to keep members and convince they're better off with collective bargaining.
Those who make the most of their membership are those who break the rule, underperform, or a free loader.
As Tim Dunn can attest at Delta.
Eskimo, that's a very cynical view; good news for members, they can vote bad union leadership out; better yet, they can run for leadership themselves (that would be truly 'making the most' of their membership). However, they cannot 'run' for management of the company. I know that you know the nuance here.
As for Tim, just why... he's clearly pro-one-specific-airline, and within that subset, pro-management and pro-shareholder, while also vocally anti-union, on here, in the past and elsewhere (even though Delta's pilots have had one since 1934!) I know he hasn't been on here for a little while, but let's at least try to be accurate.
First, APA is not stepping outside the scope of its duties at all. The APA's primary duty is to advocate for its members, and improving AA's management is in the best interest of the APA membership.
Second, management has not even remotely given APA "literally everything it has wanted"! In addition to sticking the AA pilots with a subpar contract compared to United and Delta, AA management also violates that subpar left and right with impunity. Grievances sit unanswered and unarbitrared.
I'm not sure where you got the idea that management just easily gives APA whatever they want, but it's sadly misguided.
That's not the deal. A union is obligated to represent 24/7/365. A union would violate its duty by not criticising management and managers when their decisions threaten the ability to provide improved pay, benefis, working conditions and long-term employment and advancement prospects.
Lars says, "It's that the union is stepping outside the scope of its duties to make the statement"
Unions would be completely failing in their legal duty of fair representation if they did not highlight managerial incompetence. Their members' livelihoods are inextricably tied to the long-term success of their airlines, far more so than managers who move from one airline to another.
Feels like the unions care more about AA than the board
Retired from 40+yrs. airline employ (pilot/administration), married to ex American Airlines employee, fly only on AA. All the CEO has to do is make a couple of incognito flights (in Economy) to see all the improvements that need to be made. It hurts me to see the shambles every time I travel.