Update: As of May 1, 2020, American Airlines will require all flight attendants to wear masks.
Oh American Airlines…
As if employees aren’t already concerned enough about job security or their safety, now they also have to worry about being punished for wearing face masks.
In this post:
American disciplines employees wearing face masks
As noted by View from the Wing, American Airlines seems to be disciplining employees who want to wear face masks. This has come to light because a flight service manager left a voicemail for a flight attendant who operated a flight while wearing a face mask:
“This is [redacted] calling from Boston flight service at 1:15 p.m. on Tuesday afternoon. I know you’ve got a trip this evening, I know it was brought to my attention that you did have a face mask on on your last trip. I just wanted to let you know that we can’t let you come to work with a face mask on. I understand concerns and everything but we can’t be having our flight attendants come to work with a face mask on. Like I said I totally understand what your concerns are. If you don’t feel comfortable coming to work without a face mask, you need to use your sick time or call out that’s totally understandable. I just wanted to let you know prior to coming in this evening as far as what the expectations are on our end.”
To be clear, this wasn’t just an overzealous manager, but this is American’s official policy:
“Masks in-flight or in the terminal is not allowed. We are following CDC guidance: masks are not effective in preventing the spread of COVID-19 for the general public.”
Flight attendants are at very high risk for COVID-19
A recent report from the New York Times shows just how at-risk flight attendants are to contracting COVID-19. Aside from healthcare workers, dentists, and paramedics, flight attendants have among the highest risk of getting COVID-19, given the amount of time they spend in confined spaces with others.
That really shouldn’t come as much of a surprise. I’d argue airlines aren’t doing nearly enough to protect their employees at this time.
Do masks help, though?
There has been tons of debate surrounding whether or not masks should be worn at this point. In many cases people have been encouraged not to wear masks, which is largely because there’s a shortage of them, and it’s a priority that healthcare workers get them, but also because wearing these masks is most helpful in preventing the infection of others.
However, the CDC’s recommendation to not wear masks is intended for the “general public.” For all practical purposes, airline employees, and particularly flight attendants, shouldn’t be considered the general public:
- Properly-fitted N95 masks (or similar) could potentially help prevent someone from getting COVID-19
- If a flight attendant does have COVID-19 but isn’t yet showing symptoms, wearing a mask could help prevent them from spreading it, which is increasingly important now that we know the lengthy incubation time of this coronavirus, and the number of people who may be spreading without symptoms
- At many airlines around the world flight attendants are now required to wear masks, let alone given the option
Simply put, healthcare workers are told to wear masks, so clearly there’s some benefit to having them when a person’s job is to interact with large numbers of potentially infected people. Surely a distinction should be made between flight attendants and the general public, given that their job is being within inches of hundreds of people, with no sense of where passengers have been previously, and in an environment with very poor air circulation?
Why does American Airlines even care?
I think the big question here is why American Airlines actually cares if flight attendants wear masks or not? Even if it just makes flight attendants feel better, isn’t that enough?
The way I view it, there are two possible explanations.
The first explanation is that American Airlines has strict uniform and appearance guidelines. Obviously that’s not the case. For the past few years American Airlines employees have had all kinds of mismatched uniforms, given that their new uniform was causing reactions for some people. Up until a few weeks ago you had people partly wearing US Airways uniforms from five years ago.
The second explanation seems more likely to me — American is concerned that flight attendants wearing masks will “scare” people. As far as I’m concerned, that’s great — people should be staying home, especially the people who are scared by people wearing masks.
Bottom line
It’s my understanding that both Delta and United are allowing employees to wear face masks, while American isn’t. Telling a flight attendant they shouldn’t come to work because they want to wear a face mask is simply ridiculous.
Flight attendants are at high risk of contracting COVID-19, and while masks are largely downplayed in the US, the reality is that healthcare workers are told to wear them, and flight attendants face many similar challenges.
Flight attendants have enough things to worry about — let them also wear masks if they want to!
What do you think — is American Airlines off base for not letting employees wear masks?
Now that states are now fining people in public without a mask $1000 how do all you bright people who argued against wearing masks in public now feel? Pretty dumb huh?
There is really no justification for anyone to wear mask in a public places. If they are infectious, they should not be traveling or hanging around in public places with a mask, creating a more threatening environment for others.
Masks of various types that are meant to be worn in places that are known to be an occupational hazard or highly polluted or in sterile or semi sterile healthcare facilities that seek to prevent...
There is really no justification for anyone to wear mask in a public places. If they are infectious, they should not be traveling or hanging around in public places with a mask, creating a more threatening environment for others.
Masks of various types that are meant to be worn in places that are known to be an occupational hazard or highly polluted or in sterile or semi sterile healthcare facilities that seek to prevent cross infection and not in normal public places where facial recognition is important.
@Azamaraal
So you're saying doctors are assumed to have respiratory diseases and wear masks to prevent passing them to patients? Really?
AA changed policy. Effective March 23, FAs can wear masks. Prior policy did allow masks in certain markets where culturally norm, e.g. Asia.
@Azamaraal
okay, fair enough. I didn't read it that way but I do agree that there has been a major lack of preparation for a well known catastrophe coming. a serious mistake that we are paying for even this early on in the crisis. however, I disagree with the attack on the cdc. I also don't understand "feigned" bureaucracy, if there is blame in the states for the handling of the situation then I think...
@Azamaraal
okay, fair enough. I didn't read it that way but I do agree that there has been a major lack of preparation for a well known catastrophe coming. a serious mistake that we are paying for even this early on in the crisis. however, I disagree with the attack on the cdc. I also don't understand "feigned" bureaucracy, if there is blame in the states for the handling of the situation then I think that finger goes directly to the administration and flows from there. same for the Morrison government in Australia when the state premiers have had to be the grown ups.
Not surpised. I'm a pharmacist at a large chain pharmacy coming in contact with hundreds of people daily. Our company doesn't want us to wear masks. They say it scares the patients. They could care less about us!
Taiwan is considered a "success" story in preventing the spread of Corona virus - everyone is mandated to wear a mask. Korea as well. I don't care what they say, but if you wear a mask, you are less likely to touch your mouth or nose with your hands which is what actually causes most infections. Flight attendants at all airlines across the world are wearing them. When this is all said and done, there will be fire and pitchforks coming for all AA management.
@DTB
You answered yourself in your own post. Doctors use medical masks to protect the patient, not themselves.
Surgical masks are ineffective in stopping Covid-19 but protect against spray water droplets etc that are larger than the size of 0.1 micron. Protecting the patient and other medical personnel in the room. And only if used properly (again watch the clip)
@Eskimo posted the WHO site that takes only a few minutes to watch. Perhaps...
@DTB
You answered yourself in your own post. Doctors use medical masks to protect the patient, not themselves.
Surgical masks are ineffective in stopping Covid-19 but protect against spray water droplets etc that are larger than the size of 0.1 micron. Protecting the patient and other medical personnel in the room. And only if used properly (again watch the clip)
@Eskimo posted the WHO site that takes only a few minutes to watch. Perhaps you should take a look?
https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/advice-for-public/when-and-how-to-use-masks
@KCB By stating that the pandemic will be worse in the US - of course @bruce meant proportionally, not total numbers. They state Italy is worse than China - but proportionally. China definitely has more deaths but the rate is higher in Italy. US will most likely be worse than Italy if someone at the top doesn't start buying Masks for Health Care Workers and start building emergency hospitals like China did. But unfortunately that's not going to happen in either the US or Canada due to imbecilic leadership at the top.
@Eskimo
Well, another consumer of fake news. BBC, SKY, CNN-UK are showing lots of selfish behaviour but there very, very few Brits wearing facemarks on the streets and no more "hate crimes" than our normal group of retards acting as they always do. Yes, we've got white supremacy freaks just like you. (Ours don't carry guns.)
And yes, the London Underground is packed with Socially Immoral Yuppys, but only around 10% with facemarks.
The "hazmat"...
@Eskimo
Well, another consumer of fake news. BBC, SKY, CNN-UK are showing lots of selfish behaviour but there very, very few Brits wearing facemarks on the streets and no more "hate crimes" than our normal group of retards acting as they always do. Yes, we've got white supremacy freaks just like you. (Ours don't carry guns.)
And yes, the London Underground is packed with Socially Immoral Yuppys, but only around 10% with facemarks.
The "hazmat" suits you saw were a repurposed group of anarchist Climate Rebellion whackos wearing painting & decorating workwear.
New York is about to overtake Italy. I grieve for NYC but if only the Administration had listened to the science.
I'm more worried about an overcrowded bus with 40+ people just to get into work. Yet passengers don't need to anymore. Why protect them and not the employees?
Can the people who say that "surgical masks do not protect the wearer", please explain to me why doctors and healthcare workers use them? (I'm talking specifically about surgical masks, not N95 types)
@ben
is no day complete unless you take some kind of implied moral stand and then open it up to discussion to further stir the pot? at least you are consistent.
@traveler
"our" means who exactly?
@bruce
" I predict the outbreak in the States will surpass every other country (including Italy) given their total lack of ability and feigned bureaucracy and institutionalization."
thanks for the take on the the workings of...
@ben
is no day complete unless you take some kind of implied moral stand and then open it up to discussion to further stir the pot? at least you are consistent.
@traveler
"our" means who exactly?
@bruce
" I predict the outbreak in the States will surpass every other country (including Italy) given their total lack of ability and feigned bureaucracy and institutionalization."
thanks for the take on the the workings of the American government however your 'prediction' is a pretty easy one as the US has 550% of the population of Italy. I'm blinded by the breadth of you forward looking vision.
They have now allowed them to do so. Please retract article or make very clear correction.
Just proves that at AA , flight attendants have less value than a piece of equipment.
AA is looking to reduce costs, so it doesn't mind "losing " employees, they may even profit off it, since they likely have life insurance policies on the employees.. dead employees don't collect retiree benefits.. that is the way AA rolls.
I have a friend of mine that works for JetBlue. I heard one of their flight attendants 69 years old is in ICU. They think he will not make it from the virus. It is scary because their policy as well says that they cannot where any type of protection to protect them from this virus. It's sad that they want their own employees to be sitting ducks. It goes to show how the airlines...
I have a friend of mine that works for JetBlue. I heard one of their flight attendants 69 years old is in ICU. They think he will not make it from the virus. It is scary because their policy as well says that they cannot where any type of protection to protect them from this virus. It's sad that they want their own employees to be sitting ducks. It goes to show how the airlines really think about their own employees. Maybe these managers and CEOs should fly these flights instead of these poor flight attendants. This is very sad.
The Fed is going to ground domestic travel or there are going to be so few traveling the airlines will ground themselves. Debate solved either way as flight attendants will be furloughed and out of harm's way.
JetBlue will not permit their flight attendants to wear masks either.
United's flight attendants can't wear masks. We are encouraged to wear gloves.
You are driven by your American ideology of freedom and individuality, rather than by common sense and logic. And there you are in the great US of A, getting barebacked by COVID-19. The virus doesn’t care for your ideology. WAKE UP!
I think the cdc's recommendation is not because they believe it doesn't help but they recommend it so that people would stop hoarding masks and putting the lives of doctors and nurses at risk who are now having to ration masks. Willing to bet that once private sector starts churning out masks for medical staffs and there is enough to go around the cdc will change their narrative. Unfortunately we can expect Americans to do...
I think the cdc's recommendation is not because they believe it doesn't help but they recommend it so that people would stop hoarding masks and putting the lives of doctors and nurses at risk who are now having to ration masks. Willing to bet that once private sector starts churning out masks for medical staffs and there is enough to go around the cdc will change their narrative. Unfortunately we can expect Americans to do the responsible thing. It doesn't take much to cause a wealthy nation to buy up everything.
I fully agree people are still out working need to wear masks to protect themselves, their family and other people they are contacting with every day. Masks do reduce the risk of transmission. But it is difficult for people to get masks now as they are out of stock every where. Luckily I found this online store ojomask.com and they didn't fail me.
I work at the airline. As of this afternoon AA inflights (FAs) are allowed to wear masks.
Wow! I would ask for a Reasonable Accommodation under Federal law and practically dare them to refuse it. In the meantime I would email my doctor and ask her to state that a face mask is medically necessary, which I think any doctor would agree to under the circumstances. Would AA really want to violate Federal ADA law?
Medical professional change masks will each patient in most cases, hence the shortage. Wearing the same mask day in and out is actually more harmfull. The CSC and NIH are the best minds in medicine. Please don't quote statistics out of China and Russia. . .REALLY.
Stop playing expert and stop opinating. Listen to the professionals and do as you are told, that is how we get out of this and don't steal the toilet paper in the airplane bathroom.
If a mask is not in anyway helpful why is the entire medical staff at my Drs office wearing it when working /seeing their patients?
If masks do not work against the virus then how do they work for medical personnel? Medical personnel wear them because they are in close contact with patients. As a Flight Attendant I work within 17 inches, the width of the aisle, to passengers who could be positive and contagious. Not to mention we must lean over 2 people to reach the person by the window so you can lesson that 17 inches to 5...
If masks do not work against the virus then how do they work for medical personnel? Medical personnel wear them because they are in close contact with patients. As a Flight Attendant I work within 17 inches, the width of the aisle, to passengers who could be positive and contagious. Not to mention we must lean over 2 people to reach the person by the window so you can lesson that 17 inches to 5 to 10 inches based on the size of the passenger you are leaning over. If there wasn't a shortage on masks and the US wore masks for their personal safety as they do in Asia this would be a different conversation.
Rather than think you know what's going on it would be better dont express yourself against noone who wants to wear a mask simply bc you dont know what underlying health conditions a person has...and second you better search before you say anything like this because theres people who also in their 40s and died...bc of the quantity of people affected they have to select who put in IC...with this mentality of yours Italy mourns...
Rather than think you know what's going on it would be better dont express yourself against noone who wants to wear a mask simply bc you dont know what underlying health conditions a person has...and second you better search before you say anything like this because theres people who also in their 40s and died...bc of the quantity of people affected they have to select who put in IC...with this mentality of yours Italy mourns s its population bc didnt valued the situation right and has been uncontrollable!!
Dear Donna..the peopelwho died in Italy they're not exclusively older in age..rather than listen
@JAY1951
I saw a lot of pictures in UK where people are wearing hazmat suits in public. Is N95 panic buy not extreme enough over there? I also saw reports of many Asians being target of racist assault, and black or middle eastern people will always be a target in UK.
I read those and thank all that’s Holy I don’t live in the UK.
"Maybe the CDC is afraid POTUS will cut their funding...
@JAY1951
I saw a lot of pictures in UK where people are wearing hazmat suits in public. Is N95 panic buy not extreme enough over there? I also saw reports of many Asians being target of racist assault, and black or middle eastern people will always be a target in UK.
I read those and thank all that’s Holy I don’t live in the UK.
"Maybe the CDC is afraid POTUS will cut their funding if they tell the truth."
To be fair, the last two POTUS also cut CDC funding. (Then increase it after Ebola, I think)
To be fair, if POTUS consumes fake news and ignores CDC advisers, POTUS will act on fake news not CDC recommendations. So it has to do with TV and Twitter not funding.
“We are following CDC guidance: masks are not effective in preventing the spread of COVID-19 for the general public.”
CDC is lying to us. Unless everyone in HK, Taiwan, Japan is dumb, then wearing masks protects oneself. The only reason CDC make such a statement is because there are little to no stock of masks in US. You can’t tell people you need to wear masks and there are zero masks to be had. People...
“We are following CDC guidance: masks are not effective in preventing the spread of COVID-19 for the general public.”
CDC is lying to us. Unless everyone in HK, Taiwan, Japan is dumb, then wearing masks protects oneself. The only reason CDC make such a statement is because there are little to no stock of masks in US. You can’t tell people you need to wear masks and there are zero masks to be had. People will riot! So let’s just tell them masks are not effective and hopefully people won’t buy them except medical personnel. Anyone with an ounce of brain can logically figure out that if everyone wears a mask, infection rate will go down. If our government can just get to work, certainly they can set up factories in no time and produce much needed masks. After all, isn’t USA the richest country in the world? If Taiwan can set up mask production in one month and produce millions of masks for its citizens, certainly the great US of A can minimally do so if not exceed that!
@miafll
@Bgriff
You are twisting the facts and blaming CDC conspiracy.
Per:
https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/advice-for-public/when-and-how-to-use-masks
"If you are healthy, you only need to wear a mask if you are taking care of a person with suspected 2019-nCoV infection"
Unless you are also saying the WHO is also in this conspiracy.
FACT: With proper distancing, wearing masks for healthy person barely protects you from virus.
REALITY: It's because our irresponsible freedom of movement, and...
@miafll
@Bgriff
You are twisting the facts and blaming CDC conspiracy.
Per:
https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/advice-for-public/when-and-how-to-use-masks
"If you are healthy, you only need to wear a mask if you are taking care of a person with suspected 2019-nCoV infection"
Unless you are also saying the WHO is also in this conspiracy.
FACT: With proper distancing, wearing masks for healthy person barely protects you from virus.
REALITY: It's because our irresponsible freedom of movement, and idiocy that makes people like @miafll @Bgriff think masks are effective. Unfortunately you are right, because many are too dumb and selfish to self isolate. Go ask the person who got banned from JetBlue, the guy who took his daughter to prom, and the brothers hoarding hand sanitizers, etc.
Freedom comes with a responsibly, that's the price to pay. Wanting freedom without responsibility is waiting for disaster to strike. The government needs to be authoritarian when disasters like this come.
FAs are now allowed to wear face masks per new guidance released by Jill Surdek today.
Masks should be worn by people who HAS the virus.
Especially if they had known contact or symptoms.
This minimizes the spread of the virus they have to other healthy people.
So yes surgical masks worn by general public doesn't do shit.
N95 worn by general public may protect them if worn correctly
But the BIG issue is the short supply of N95 masks in the US.
Healthcare workers need to...
Masks should be worn by people who HAS the virus.
Especially if they had known contact or symptoms.
This minimizes the spread of the virus they have to other healthy people.
So yes surgical masks worn by general public doesn't do shit.
N95 worn by general public may protect them if worn correctly
But the BIG issue is the short supply of N95 masks in the US.
Healthcare workers need to wear N95 mask or better when treating sick patients so as to not get sick themselves be quarantined or worse die.
If that happens, there will be no one left to treat anybody.
American is still living in the 60’s and is all about “image” control. Lips and tips must match, hair up, but no regard for safety.
I read this thread and thank all that's Holy I don't live in the USA. Here in the UK, even though I'm only 90% sure the Government's action are right, at least every agency is on the same page.
Panic & confusion when advice is all over the place, confidence in authority is lost when minds change by the hour.
UK on facemarks: They're not much help to protect you unless they're proper isolation masks....
I read this thread and thank all that's Holy I don't live in the USA. Here in the UK, even though I'm only 90% sure the Government's action are right, at least every agency is on the same page.
Panic & confusion when advice is all over the place, confidence in authority is lost when minds change by the hour.
UK on facemarks: They're not much help to protect you unless they're proper isolation masks. However, they do protect others because they reduce the risk of you infecting others. However, keeping a 2m (7ft) distance from each other is more effective.
As flight attendants might find that distance impossible, they reduce the risk of infecting passengers if they're Covid-19 positive.
Maybe the CDC is afraid POTUS will cut their funding if they tell the truth.
Ben please be careful with these sort of medical issues where you don't have a full understanding the topic. FFP3 (or in the USA N95) masks can certainly reduce intake of viral RNA significantly however they have to be properly fit tested and most healthcare staff find it difficult to wear them for more than a few hours. Totally unnecessary and impractical for flight attendants, esp as they aren't carrying out aerosol generating procedures! Standard...
Ben please be careful with these sort of medical issues where you don't have a full understanding the topic. FFP3 (or in the USA N95) masks can certainly reduce intake of viral RNA significantly however they have to be properly fit tested and most healthcare staff find it difficult to wear them for more than a few hours. Totally unnecessary and impractical for flight attendants, esp as they aren't carrying out aerosol generating procedures! Standard surgical face masks are mainly to prevent spread FROM the wearer however can slightly reduce spread to if worn as part of proper PPE with correct procedures for donning and doffing and appropriate training. To wear just a mask as a member of the public (including FAs) is totally pointless.
This is incorrect, as of Friday we have received an email from our union saying we can wear mask if we choose to
This NYT article:
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/17/opinion/coronavirus-face-masks.html
Basically makes the argument that the authorities were lying when they said that masks weren't necessary for the general public -- it probably would have helped if people were wearing them out in public, as is common in Asia, but because stocks became so depleted they needed them for hospitals and didn't want people buying them for private use. But yeah, if there were enough masks around, it would probably...
This NYT article:
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/17/opinion/coronavirus-face-masks.html
Basically makes the argument that the authorities were lying when they said that masks weren't necessary for the general public -- it probably would have helped if people were wearing them out in public, as is common in Asia, but because stocks became so depleted they needed them for hospitals and didn't want people buying them for private use. But yeah, if there were enough masks around, it would probably be good if AA frontline employees (and anyone else in a job where they still need to interact with the public) were wearing them.
wow...the amount of idiotic comments here is mind boggling...
wear f’ing masks...
FAs need a mask. They do NOT need a N95. Because of you Lucky, bloggers/influencers, we, the doctors, are out of N95. We had to perform nasopharyngeal procedure on COVID19 using surgery mask which is not sealed.
Here is the definition by OSHA for different between surgery mask and respirator(N95/N100). This is from 2009, so it's not revised recently to stop general public to use a respirator. https://www.osha.gov/Publications/respirators-vs-surgicalmasks-factsheet.html
Can you stop misleading general public...
FAs need a mask. They do NOT need a N95. Because of you Lucky, bloggers/influencers, we, the doctors, are out of N95. We had to perform nasopharyngeal procedure on COVID19 using surgery mask which is not sealed.
Here is the definition by OSHA for different between surgery mask and respirator(N95/N100). This is from 2009, so it's not revised recently to stop general public to use a respirator. https://www.osha.gov/Publications/respirators-vs-surgicalmasks-factsheet.html
Can you stop misleading general public for God's sake to save a little bit possibility for us, Lucky?
We should stop comparing western countries to East Asian countries in handling the pandemic health crisis, or any other global crises, due to different cultures, philosophies, principles, individual rights and freedom. Eastern Asian governments place country's interests as top priorities above all else while the western countries do not. For instance, Fox channels should be banned and others be levied millions of dollars in fine for spreading blatant lies that endanger national safety and security....
We should stop comparing western countries to East Asian countries in handling the pandemic health crisis, or any other global crises, due to different cultures, philosophies, principles, individual rights and freedom. Eastern Asian governments place country's interests as top priorities above all else while the western countries do not. For instance, Fox channels should be banned and others be levied millions of dollars in fine for spreading blatant lies that endanger national safety and security. It is shocking to see that all of China's neighboring countries, especially Taiwan and HK where movements to and from China are most frequent, are not among countries that register the highest infected cases and deaths. Unsure why airlines still not limit international and national flights to once a week per airline.
I think ALL Airline employees should be tested as they are most at risk, and this includes Gate Agents, Ticket Counter Agents, Fleet Services, everyone. People put their boarding passes and passports in their mouths and then hand to agents, its disgusting. Gloves and masks are not allowed at all. It may well be the flying public who is most transmitting the virus and the airlines are perpetuating it being transmitted.
CDC tells you not to wear mask is because mask in dire dire dire supply in this country. If CDC tells you to wear mask can you imagine how panicky the Americans would become?
If we can do testing at the same rates as the Asian countries, like S. Korea, then we know who are sick who are not, therefore, may be no need to wear mask as those who are sick even though asymptomatic...
CDC tells you not to wear mask is because mask in dire dire dire supply in this country. If CDC tells you to wear mask can you imagine how panicky the Americans would become?
If we can do testing at the same rates as the Asian countries, like S. Korea, then we know who are sick who are not, therefore, may be no need to wear mask as those who are sick even though asymptomatic can be detected early, and make those wear masks when going out.
The VERY SAD thing is, here even you are lightly symptomatic, you still would not get tested, because the test kits are woefully lacking, and the process takes 2 to 4 days while Asian countries, like S. Korea, can process tests in hours.
We have 2+ months lead time to get ready for this pandemic yet we totally squandered this valuable time lead that the Chinese paid the costs of thousands of lives already.
For those continue argue masks are not useful to prevent the spread of virus, you need your heads re-examined.
We could have been on the curve of S. Korea, but it looks like we are all set to be on the curve of Italy.
As of now, even on Friday's briefing, Pence asked people to look at their homes and find any spare masks to donate to the hospitals. He literally said that, and said CDC now certified the industrial N95 can be used in medical environment - why? because at least that can be made much quicker - just a mold and press, versus the medical N95 has 3 layers and far more complicated steps to make... So at least our medical workers have some to protect themselves.
Look at the primitive protective gears our country's med workers have, versus those worn by even Italy's, not to mention those worn by South Korea.
Oregon has down to 1 week supply of mask in its health care system. The government is asking private donations, any amount would help.
New York has asked for this days ago.
Yeah, right, masks are not useful...
AA management seems to be all out to fight against the public.
First its CEO said they did not need bail out but would take the money anyway.
Then now it ignore public health risk and forbid its FAs to wear mask which would protect BOTH the flight crews AND the passengers.
What a $h1t hole company AA is.
BenB you bring up a great point. If the standard protocol was for all passengers and crew to wear masks, I'd be all for it. That, however, was not the question or option for which was presented.
incidentally, an N95 mask is either a good or bad thing when it comes to hearing the person talking. And our country seems to be in a disarray on who should have them now that the general...
BenB you bring up a great point. If the standard protocol was for all passengers and crew to wear masks, I'd be all for it. That, however, was not the question or option for which was presented.
incidentally, an N95 mask is either a good or bad thing when it comes to hearing the person talking. And our country seems to be in a disarray on who should have them now that the general public has obviously valued them more than (or at least earlier than) our healthcare system.
Sadly, our entire country is in an uproar over fear as well as blame. Seeking others to pay them, whether time off or a bailout. Will our present lockdown mentality really work. My personal opinion at this moment (which has waffled some) is no. Do we really think post lockdown there will be fewer active infections in the public than what started this? If one's motive is to flatten the curve would it not be better to simply secure our elderly in an effort to reduce ventilator demand rather than seek trillions in stimulus as we close the country? How many 2-week lockdowns can we afford? To some, shameful I would suggest that money should be compared with human life in our quest to minimize this virus impact without comparison to others or that of war. And why are we not attacking the virus more than running from it...as some countries have done with mass testing and immediate isolation and treatment?
There have been many infections reported aming flight attendants, so airlines should have their flight attendants wear masks.
The only reason that CDC cannot recommend to the public is because there's a shortage. It prevents the spread if you are unknowingly infected. It lowers the risk of catching it in the community when the infection rate is super high such as in US. Educate people to wear it correctly rather than discouraging everyone from...
There have been many infections reported aming flight attendants, so airlines should have their flight attendants wear masks.
The only reason that CDC cannot recommend to the public is because there's a shortage. It prevents the spread if you are unknowingly infected. It lowers the risk of catching it in the community when the infection rate is super high such as in US. Educate people to wear it correctly rather than discouraging everyone from wearing it.
What a third world country we live in. No masks for the public, doctors and nurses. People catch it in the public, hospitals and planes.
When flying Alaska airlines last week the agent at check in informed me that she is not allowed to wear a mask either seems like not just American problem.
3M and N95 if properly wore can help prevent C19. Just think in the event someone sneeze or cough in front of you. Why else should medical staff wear them in the first place? What proof is there that mask does not help? The only reason behind this for the West is because there is a shortage of masks and the government does not want a panic.
@Lee. Italy has the second oldest population of any country in the world. The average age of those hospitalized with the virus in Italy is 68, in China 47. Older people are more at risk for Coronavirus. I’m not saying the masks in Asian countries are useless but only that one can’t draw conclusions that the Italians are doing worse at containment because of a mask situation. In any event, I would hope that AA...
@Lee. Italy has the second oldest population of any country in the world. The average age of those hospitalized with the virus in Italy is 68, in China 47. Older people are more at risk for Coronavirus. I’m not saying the masks in Asian countries are useless but only that one can’t draw conclusions that the Italians are doing worse at containment because of a mask situation. In any event, I would hope that AA reverses it’s position on this if only to give FAs some added piece of mind and some level of protection.
How would AA feel being held criminally liable for any outbreak by a F/A not wearing a mask who was asymptomatic but spreading the virus throughout the cabin? Perhaps even manslaughter (murder?) for anybody so infected and died.
The paper masks commonly worn by Asian people in public places are near-zero effective at protecting the wearer against COVID-19. I'm not interested in philosophical discussions about nothing is zero, "better than nothing" rationale. Effectiveness is near-zero so in good conscience I use the word "ineffective" at protecting the wearer.
It is useful to put masks on everyone, because then infected people will be masked, during the period when they don't know they're infected. This...
The paper masks commonly worn by Asian people in public places are near-zero effective at protecting the wearer against COVID-19. I'm not interested in philosophical discussions about nothing is zero, "better than nothing" rationale. Effectiveness is near-zero so in good conscience I use the word "ineffective" at protecting the wearer.
It is useful to put masks on everyone, because then infected people will be masked, during the period when they don't know they're infected. This is the point, for Mr Freedom, above. We all value our freedoms and one of them is freedom from your virus, thank you very much. Lots of freedoms were tossed over the side, temporarily, during WW2. Some measures were "unconstitutional". Boring topic; this isn't a contitutional law/Human Rights debate in law school, it's a pandemic. I want my "right" to virus-free life restored and it can't be done without impinging on your right to sneeze anywhere you want.
@Lee, I'm sorry I don't exactly follow your point, or whether you're disagreeing with part of what I said. I have a feeling you might have misunderstood my main point, which is: the successful places (Korea, Taiwan, Hong Kong) achieved very high mask-wearing, by people who believed the masks were protecting them. It's a good thing that all those people believe a mask protects the wearer, cuz it made them all wear them, which protected others from the infected mask-wearer, who didn't know (s)he is infected.
Back to American: preventing their FAs from wearing masks is entirely consistent with the company's cluelessness, which Ben has been railing against for years. They're the classic miss-the-point-everytime company.
Mask helps. If someone sneezes in your face, would you rather have a mask on or not? Ez.
@Jim: wearing masks in China or in the several other Asian countries has always been common because of pollution! It did not stop the virus from appearing and spreading. It is certainly not a reason to have it under control.
Idk what the CDC is smokin'
Wearing masks is not safe. Most people make mistakes when removing /touching the mask. It is safer for passengers and for everyone involved not to have masks. AA has a lot of problems - this is not one of them. Several countries openly recommend people not to wear masks unless you are infected. And if you are infected you should not leave home in the first place let alone flying.
There's no logical way anyone can conclude a mask adds zero protection. Any mask adds an unknown, non zero amount of protection. Even if worn imperfectly. Americans love contrary information that feels like they're smarter than everyone else. It's probably also meant to free up masks for healthcare workers.
@DenB®
Allow me to disagree. To a certain extent it protects also the person who is wearing it. I have read an article written by a famous virologist who stressed that the easiest way to get infected is through the mucus (nose and mouth). So even if the mask doesn't protect 100% (true), it still reduces the risk to some extent which for me means better than nothing, especially when dealing with the public. The...
@DenB®
Allow me to disagree. To a certain extent it protects also the person who is wearing it. I have read an article written by a famous virologist who stressed that the easiest way to get infected is through the mucus (nose and mouth). So even if the mask doesn't protect 100% (true), it still reduces the risk to some extent which for me means better than nothing, especially when dealing with the public. The fact that AA doesn't allow employees to wear it is really disturbing.
The CDC is a shambles institution that has no idea what’s going on and it’s frankly absurd they think they know better than everyone else. American Airlines not letting their employees wear masks, regardless of their effectiveness is ridiculous. I predict the outbreak in the States will surpass every other country (including Italy) given their total lack of ability and feigned bureaucracy and institutionalisation.
AA FAs are allowed to wear disposal gloves inflight?
Masks are required in China now. You cannot go anywhere without a mask. It is socially unacceptable to not wear one. It's one of the reasons why China has been able to reduce the infection count to 0, given the known ability of the virus to spread among asymptomatic people. From what I've seen, this is the case in other Asian regions as well (Japan, Korean, etc.) The CDC is going by rules devised for the flu, and they need to be updated.
Just for reference - Aeroflot allowed and encouraged their employees to wear face masks since Jan 31.
Number of cases in Russia til Mar 22: 367 cases
I personally would feel better flying with a crew wearing face masks and gloves.
This is a time where fear and speculation abound. And as such I embrace the freedom of all people as well as companies to embrace each others freedom. Yes AA has a valid point and freedom to take such action.
Healthcare workers are not wearing their masks in the general public settings, and the general public is not visiting hospitals. The aircraft is not an ICU unit!
Employees have freedoms to. But it's not...
This is a time where fear and speculation abound. And as such I embrace the freedom of all people as well as companies to embrace each others freedom. Yes AA has a valid point and freedom to take such action.
Healthcare workers are not wearing their masks in the general public settings, and the general public is not visiting hospitals. The aircraft is not an ICU unit!
Employees have freedoms to. But it's not the responsibility of AA or anyone else to pay for our society to stay home. Sure use sick leave or other accrued time. It's a sad situation but time off paid handouts are paid for by someone. We have yet to see if it is inevitable that we all at some point will have to have some exposure to build antibodies. I'm not taking a stance on quarantine for the lower risk population ok n but a high price is being paid each day and ultimately these costs will not come from nowhere.
@DenB how do you explain Asia, Korea Japan China are able to contain virus faster than Italy or rest of Europe / US?
Of course, Asian countries did a LOT more such as testing temperature of passengers on arrival from January , but without saying the fact everyone is wearing mask in Asia helped a lot!
Do keep in mind this virus can be transmitted without symptoms. So asking everyone who carry virus...
@DenB how do you explain Asia, Korea Japan China are able to contain virus faster than Italy or rest of Europe / US?
Of course, Asian countries did a LOT more such as testing temperature of passengers on arrival from January , but without saying the fact everyone is wearing mask in Asia helped a lot!
Do keep in mind this virus can be transmitted without symptoms. So asking everyone who carry virus is unrealistic unless you do what Asian countries do - force everyone to wear mask. Otherwise, it does help give airline crews need to talk to passengers in close proximity.
CDC - garbage advice. Repeated by media outlets - CNN, etc....
Look at the containment strategies of South Korea, Taiwan, Hong Kong. Most people wear masks. They have very low transmission. If everyone wore masks, no need for a shutdown.
Rather than make me scared, I'd be less scared. But subconsciously we (In USA at least) connect masks to Halloween, which is connected to scary / fear. Power of words...but this is not well understood.
Unbelievable, our stupidity never ends...
Masks do not protect the wearer from COVID-19. They do protect others, if the wearer is infected. Infected people don't know they're infected for weeks, so there's a huge benefit to masking everyone. That's why Asian countries encourage their citizens to wear masks, even though health policy experts know they're not protecting the wearers, but the people they encounter. Most wearers believe the mask protects them.
It's typical that American forbids mask use among their...
Masks do not protect the wearer from COVID-19. They do protect others, if the wearer is infected. Infected people don't know they're infected for weeks, so there's a huge benefit to masking everyone. That's why Asian countries encourage their citizens to wear masks, even though health policy experts know they're not protecting the wearers, but the people they encounter. Most wearers believe the mask protects them.
It's typical that American forbids mask use among their cabin crew, while Asian carriers mandate it. Every crewmember was masked on my flight March17 TPE-YYZ.
Americans will pay a higher price than anyone, even Italy, in this terrible crisis. This is a good example of why.