We’ve seen a countless number of stories of people being banned from airlines for poor mask compliance. Well, a recent United Airlines flight from Newark to Tel Aviv apparently had dozen of people not wearing masks, and… no one did anything about it?
In this post:
“Traumatic” United Airlines flight to Israel
The Times of Israel has the story of what allegedly happened on a United Airlines flight last Thursday from Newark to Tel Aviv. Passengers report that there were dozens of people onboard who refused to wear masks.
I would almost assume this story can’t be true, because airlines are generally militant about face mask enforcement. However, there are pictures of some of these passengers (only one man standing up and praying is wearing a mask, and he’s not even wearing it correctly).
A passenger on the flight stated that she started to get concerned when during boarding she noticed that dozens of passengers weren’t wearing masks. As she described the situation:
“The flight was three-quarters full, there were empty seats. In all honesty, in my whole life I have never seen such behavior, such contempt. We sat for the whole flight in the coronavirus breeding ground because one does not know if they were tested.
People sat without masks for the whole flight, for almost 10 hours. We did not eat, did not sleep. We went into the bathroom to drink because we were afraid to remove our masks.”
When these passengers were told to put on masks, the requests were ignored. Furthermore, when they were told to stop praying maskless, those requests were also ignored.
How on earth did this happen?
I don’t even want to speculate about why these passengers refused to wear masks, and I’d also rather not hear any justification. When you check-in for your United Airlines flight you have to agree you’ll adhere to the mask policy, and there are no exceptions aside from if you’re eating or drinking. Period.
What I’m genuinely curious about is how the crew didn’t take any action. It’s one thing if one person isn’t great about mask compliance, but we’re talking about many people here. And we’re not just talking about bad mask compliance, but these people are standing up without masks and talking out loud, further increasing risk to other passengers.
Passengers report that the issues started early on, so why didn’t the crew do anything?
This did get me thinking about a related topic. Diverting within the US due to an unruly passenger is easy enough, but it’s significantly more complicated if it happens in another country due to all the current entry restrictions.
For example, what if the United flight diverted to Canada or the European Union, where most passengers wouldn’t be allowed to enter the countries? And then what happens if the crew times out? This seems like it could be a logistical nightmare.
Bottom line
Dozens of passengers on a United Airlines flight from Newark to Tel Aviv last week allegedly refused to wear their masks for most of the flight, and the crew did nothing about it.
While I don’t envy the situation the crew was in, the airline needs to do better. While I think some people have unrealistic expectations of safety on planes, dozens of people not wearing masks for an extended period of time is on a completely different level…
So Lucky is now censoring any and all comments that do not go along with the mainstream narrative? I stated that the science is not settled on the efficacy of masks and linked to random controlled trial studies that showed that masks do not work then Lucky removed my comment. I did not link to a "conspiracy theory" website, only to a Danish RCT trial of 6,000 persons that showed no discernible difference in virus...
So Lucky is now censoring any and all comments that do not go along with the mainstream narrative? I stated that the science is not settled on the efficacy of masks and linked to random controlled trial studies that showed that masks do not work then Lucky removed my comment. I did not link to a "conspiracy theory" website, only to a Danish RCT trial of 6,000 persons that showed no discernible difference in virus transmission among those who wore a mask and those who did not. The shut down of discourse that does align with the mainstream narrative is frightening. Is me linking to the Danish RCT trial of 6,000 persons spreading misinformation? Who gets to decide what misinformation is?
United's instructions for FAs is to make a mask compliance announcement, ask unmasked customers to wear a mask, give them a written warning if they continue not masking, then report a continuing issue to the captain so he/she can make an announcement, then file a report as soon as possible after landing.
Did they do this? Then they did everything they were supposed to.
Diverting to a foreign airport to offload customers is not any...
United's instructions for FAs is to make a mask compliance announcement, ask unmasked customers to wear a mask, give them a written warning if they continue not masking, then report a continuing issue to the captain so he/she can make an announcement, then file a report as soon as possible after landing.
Did they do this? Then they did everything they were supposed to.
Diverting to a foreign airport to offload customers is not any part of the plan.
And Jews are no better or worse than any other customers. Newark flights to anywhere are the worst for mask compliance in the system. West coast is best.
@Donny: true, but the fact that they flew United probably wouldn't have stopped them from causing more trouble in case of a potential late arrival...
Here in New York (State and City) Orthodox Jews do what they want. They are a huge voting block so they get away with everything. It's a crime.
@ Frank
This flight was operated by United. United flies on Saturday and they have no obligation to not fly on the Sabbath. Those taking a Thursday evening flight have an obligation to themselves.
ElAl has obligated themselves to a stricter standard.
I am surprised that you write "nothing happens".
My friend was on the same flight 2 weeks ago and he said that they had to wait for close to an hour after landing because officials came on board to fine and place some people on the do-not-fly list.
Bathrooms are the worse so eating there is not safe.
The cabin crew should have been very patient and pleaded with the passengers. Then, as a last straw, divert to the final nearby airport before the destination, which would be either Aleppo International Airport or Damascus International Airport.
If you dared to say something, this would happen:
https://dailyvoice.com/new-jersey/essex/news/couple-kicked-off-newark-flight-to-israel-for-saying-ultra-orthodox-jews-would-spread-covid-19/800916/
@Stephen W
Shame! on your ignorance.
Please distance yourself from the rest of mankind.
Orthodox Jews always causing drama. They have their own separate rules and laws. Their own police. Own ambulances. Anyone remember 15 years ago when they pretty much cancelled a jet blue flight from New York to Florida because it was a class trip and the yeshiva students were unable to remain seated with their seatbelts fastened as the plane was taxiiing. Oy vey.
@ GUWonder, I grew up in an orthodox Jewish home - there is simply no excuse for what these individuals did. From my perspective ban them from flying United forever. Then ban them from flying any airline for the next 12 months, perhaps they will learn. Like Islam, there is a directive for Jews to protect themselves and others. Don't put others at risk.
@ Fabio, correct masks decrease the spread of germs and...
@ GUWonder, I grew up in an orthodox Jewish home - there is simply no excuse for what these individuals did. From my perspective ban them from flying United forever. Then ban them from flying any airline for the next 12 months, perhaps they will learn. Like Islam, there is a directive for Jews to protect themselves and others. Don't put others at risk.
@ Fabio, correct masks decrease the spread of germs and covid - no question. To everyone else who thinks masks are some part of a government brainwashing project, that's fine - you are entitled to believe what you want. BUT, airlines have made it clear that you have to wear a mask that covers your nose and mouth. So if can't or won't comply then don't fly.
I'm surprised that no one mentioned that any disruption and subsequent delay on this flight leaving NY on a Thursday might have led to more complications as it might have been at risk to arrive late for Sabbath...
Lucky wrote about this here:
https://onemileatatime.com/el-al-flight-shabbat-violence/
Be happy that the old world Amish don't fly. I work (in mass transit) and live in an area with a large old world Amish population and none of them will ware face coverings and if you ask them too they will simply say "If I get Covid it's in God's hands"
@Fabio: Trump went away (kicking and screaming like a two year old) but his deplorables still exist and post. Poor Hillary got vilified for calling out that half his supporters were deplorable, instead of being called out for underestimating.
DavidF,
From what I’ve heard and seen in my own ways, mosques in the US, Canada and Scandinavia seem to have their followers seem way more likely to use masks than the local public at large. Not only that, but it seems like those Western women perceived to be mosque-attending Muslims in headscarves in these area are way more commonly wearing masks than their local neighbors in the mentioned areas.
Every highly religious-observant Muslim I’ve...
DavidF,
From what I’ve heard and seen in my own ways, mosques in the US, Canada and Scandinavia seem to have their followers seem way more likely to use masks than the local public at large. Not only that, but it seems like those Western women perceived to be mosque-attending Muslims in headscarves in these area are way more commonly wearing masks than their local neighbors in the mentioned areas.
Every highly religious-observant Muslim I’ve talked to inquiring about what’s going on in this regard says that it’s an Islamic religious obligation to protect their community and themselves by using a face mask during this pandemic and that following the science is to follow Islam. If anything, Muslims seem rather proud about Muslim contributions to science and being a faith community where scientific discovery and respect for science is respect for the so-called Creator’s creation and all scientific rules of the universe since they think they they are all attributable to that Creator.
It's scientifically been proven that Stupid people don't wear mask.
Stupid people also hate others who weat mask. According to many studies. So let's count how many stupid people are here in the comment section now.
I would not be surprised if most or all of the mask-wearing opponents on this flight to Israel are Trump supporters.
*exhale not excel...
@Stephen W - wow. What propaganda have you been swallowing?
You are most welcome to not wear a mask. However, if maskless and seated next to me, be prepared to have aerosolize lysol sprayed into your face every time you excel. Since I will be wearing a mask, the chances of my getting Covid from your respiratory fluids is slim. I will continue to spray that toxic stuff into your face to basically teach you a lesson - call it negative reinforcement?
I cannot understand how somebody can write that there is "no science" behind the recommendation/obligation to wear a mask. Such a statement has the intellectual dignity of pure superstition. It amounts to a "flat earth" statement
All health authorities and health professionals recommend using masks and we have seen plenty of explanations on how masks significantly reduce the risk of contagion.
We should not let lies of this level go unnoticed.
It's a simple formula: The More Religious You Are = The More Likely You Will Not Wear a Mask.
It's a bizarre phenomenon.
They should be immediately banned from future travel on United. Eventually when they have to drive or walk everywhere even after the pandemic dies down, no will have to worry about them flaunting the rules. And if they try it on the return trip they can be arrested on arrival and fined. The FAA has announced stiffer fines in addition to the airlines banning these travelers.
Lol and nothing will happen because of the tried and true: “anti-semitism,” card!
It is a massive problem within the Orthodox people and even the Rabbi’s promote no mask. Just look at the high rates in Brooklyn community. The Orthodox feel they are protected but are nearing their own herd immunity. On a recent flight from Frankfurt to Barcelona their was a group of about 30 Orthodox men in the boarding area wandering around without masks. When the male gate agent arrived he warned them. They faked compliance....
It is a massive problem within the Orthodox people and even the Rabbi’s promote no mask. Just look at the high rates in Brooklyn community. The Orthodox feel they are protected but are nearing their own herd immunity. On a recent flight from Frankfurt to Barcelona their was a group of about 30 Orthodox men in the boarding area wandering around without masks. When the male gate agent arrived he warned them. They faked compliance. 20 minutes later he flew to the back of the area where they had congregated and asked for boarding passes due to non-compliance. I heard one man make an attempt at it being German prejudice but one of the older men shut him down quickly. Needless to say our Lufthansa flight was much more open for seat movement. Not sure if they were put on another flight but there is only one other later flight and they tend to run full.
Come to Australia where mask wearing in flight and at airports, trains, buses , Ubers and its is a penalty for not wearing one and not even carrying one. Then look at our infection numbers and you will see that lockdowns , border closures, curfews all work to ensure we do not have any waves. My family loved being locked down for 100 days . It was very peaceful and we saved a fortune by...
Come to Australia where mask wearing in flight and at airports, trains, buses , Ubers and its is a penalty for not wearing one and not even carrying one. Then look at our infection numbers and you will see that lockdowns , border closures, curfews all work to ensure we do not have any waves. My family loved being locked down for 100 days . It was very peaceful and we saved a fortune by not going anywhere .
Still waiting to see if the idiots who allowed the Australian Open to proceed causes a third wave. Especially after a year of no football, no Grand Prix and who wants to see prima donnas play tennis and have the bad form to complain about 14 days Quarantine after a free charter flight to get to Melbourne.
But then again if you live in America why would you believe the science after being led by the worst President in history who totally ignored it. No way he had COVID that was a sympathy vote. Sorry folks but seriously the only way to get the pandemic under control is apply some rules that other countries will prove to you works.
The economy will recover and the fiscal stimulus that Federal governments provide will be minuscule when the GDP grows faster than the debt.
Not trying to make any excuses here - I do feel everyone should be following the rule. I am an airline employee and just recognize that one thing has not been mentioned.
International flights do have a requirement of a negative COVID test within 72 hours of departure in the individuals name that is flying. There are certainly implications about the test etc and does not excuse anyone for their outright disobey of the rule...
Not trying to make any excuses here - I do feel everyone should be following the rule. I am an airline employee and just recognize that one thing has not been mentioned.
International flights do have a requirement of a negative COVID test within 72 hours of departure in the individuals name that is flying. There are certainly implications about the test etc and does not excuse anyone for their outright disobey of the rule - however it certainly hell of a lot better situation than a domestic flight without the requirement.
The crew would have been immediately labelled as anti-Semites if they cracked down on the covidiots, so I don't blame them for not trying. The No Fly list is the way to go with these scofflaws. By the way, although it has been an open secret for decades and President Carter called out the Zionist state a decade ago, 'apartheid state' is the recent moniker recently (2021) adopted by Israeli human rights NGO B'Tselem regarding...
The crew would have been immediately labelled as anti-Semites if they cracked down on the covidiots, so I don't blame them for not trying. The No Fly list is the way to go with these scofflaws. By the way, although it has been an open secret for decades and President Carter called out the Zionist state a decade ago, 'apartheid state' is the recent moniker recently (2021) adopted by Israeli human rights NGO B'Tselem regarding Israeli treatment of Palestinians. So Zionist trolls, stop pretending to be shocked.
@Captn Luke, you are assuming that everyone is inhaling and exhaling normally. But if the person next to you coughs or sneezes that circulating air doesn't get the droplets away from you fast enough. That's why we wear masks on planes. And because it's part of the Terms and Conditions of the ticket purchase.
Imagine if a Palestinian refused to wear a mask on that flight ... I'm sure his/her skull will be cracked with batons, or worse!
I had two United flights (out of four) in Jan 2021 that people do not wear mask in first class after done eating/drinking.
United is getting worse on this and it is swaying my loyalty to Delta now.
Gabe:commenTed that flight crews don't like to confront passengers. He didn't indicate which airline. But, United is known to be very aggressive towards passengers for perceived trivial misbehaviour.
No one mentioned that there is an Israeli flight from Newark to Tel Aviv. They didn’t HAVE TO fly United. Just saying.
If you've ever worked as a crewmember on a TLV flight, you'd understand the flight attendants' supposed lack of action.
"Do you like this route?" asked the rabi. "So far, it's my first TelAviv. The flight time is good and the layover is nice. " I answer. "Give it time."
They're Orthodox Jews. Israel itself has been having problems placing any sort of Covid restrictions on this subsect as well. The flight crew probably made the best decision to prevent a lawsuit for UA.
@Stephen W wins the prize for failing to understand science and then misquoting it to try to defend his dogma.
I’m a doctor. Masks work brilliantly as prevention and especially to protect other people from you.
Most Israelis who have been vaccinated have had a single Pfizer dose, the efficiency of which is unknown. They can still catch and spread the virus until the entire population has had a second dose.
Here in Australia we...
@Stephen W wins the prize for failing to understand science and then misquoting it to try to defend his dogma.
I’m a doctor. Masks work brilliantly as prevention and especially to protect other people from you.
Most Israelis who have been vaccinated have had a single Pfizer dose, the efficiency of which is unknown. They can still catch and spread the virus until the entire population has had a second dose.
Here in Australia we mandate masks when we have an outbreak in the community: we don’t mandate them when community virus levels are minimal. Fauci was accused of contradicting himself on masks but he did not: he just recognised that they are only required when community transmission is widespread.
There is a significant problem with ultra-orthodox Jews and fundamentalist Muslims, both of whom believe that death is at a time chosen by God, as a result of which significant sections of their communities refuse to wear masks or distance and therefore endanger everyone else in the towns and cities where they live.
I am ashamed to have to say this as a Jew, but please understand that there is a divide between the ultra-orthodox/haredi communities and modern orthodox/conservative/reform ones. The behavior shown on this flight is shameful, and these passengers appear to have earned their spots on the no-fly list, but know that while some ultra-orthodox Jews may flour requirements, the vast majority of us are living our lives, abiding by the government's restrictions.
I find it so funny that United Airlines is tough when it comes to every other location but a flight from the New York Newark Airport to Israel of all places and not a word was said I have a funny feeling it was because it has somebody on that plane who was Jewish who had a connection to someone up high at United Airlines what other reason could there be???? They should ALL have been arrested !!
I work on an airplane and understand not liking to wear a mask for hours, which we are required to do also by our employer. However, since when is everything about ME. Where is our consideration and respect for others. Comments like "if you don't like it, stay at home" is not reasonable, is it? When did we become such a selfish society?
@magice, you wrote
"And, if you ever mention the word “science,” please provide your citation. Actual citation, from either peer-reviewed sources or trust-worthy institution (e.g. this is from Mayo Clinic: https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/coronavirus-mask/art-20485449)."
- while Mayo is a reputable non-profit, that web article does not even have author(s) listed. I just wonder why. If you argue for science, please cite a peer-reviewed study next time.
... and please wear a mask.
@magice, you wrote
"And, if you ever mention the word “science,” please provide your citation. Actual citation, from either peer-reviewed sources or trust-worthy institution (e.g. this is from Mayo Clinic: https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/coronavirus-mask/art-20485449)."
- while Mayo is a reputable non-profit, that web article does not even have author(s) listed. I just wonder why. If you argue for science, please cite a peer-reviewed study next time.
... and please wear a mask.
The only way to be safe is to wear a proper mask such as an FFP2 rated or higher medical mask such as an N95, KN95 or N98 (difficult to get). Make sure the mask is FDA or NIOSH approved. This goes for planes and anywhere else. You will be safe as will others around you. The anti maskers are ignorant and could care less about public health. UA should enforce its policies. It does...
The only way to be safe is to wear a proper mask such as an FFP2 rated or higher medical mask such as an N95, KN95 or N98 (difficult to get). Make sure the mask is FDA or NIOSH approved. This goes for planes and anywhere else. You will be safe as will others around you. The anti maskers are ignorant and could care less about public health. UA should enforce its policies. It does not matter what brand of extremists wish to spotlight. It's a power-play.
Regarding Israel (rather off topic here), I am Jewish and proud of it. I am a fan of Israel, took my kids there and firmly believe in its right to exist in peace. I do however believe Israel's treatment of the Palestinians in violation of International law is an abomination and Israel knows better. It's Politics pure and simple. BeBe knows Israel can defend themselves just fine .
Isn’t it interesting that there are so many experts on mask wearing , it’s been a year since this first started and it’s proven that wearing a mask reduces the risk of transmission so wear the damn mask, wearing one won’t kill you, why is it so hard , and wear it properly - over the nose and mouth, it takes less time to potty train a toddler
Ben im so glad u posted this. U wont believe it but I was on this flight ! And United actually did take action and they were written down for no fly list. And iif I remember correctly I had asked a few of these guys if they had antibodies and they did! So at least therye not infecting the world. And ben u kno better than not to post this kinda stuff. Talk abt a Biden fan and unity and inclusion
seems to always be the "religious" or extremists who dont want to follow guidelines - time to add more to the no fly list
This is not shocking to say the least considering how high the rate of infection is in Jewish communities across the US, and all the headlines since this pandemic began
Did the FAs ask them to wear a mask? Where they eating and drinking albeit slowly. I don't expect FAs to sit there with a stop watch to determine if you are "actively eating and drinking." Probably more to this than what's suggested.
Personally when I'm on a plane I'm engrossed in a move or hopefully in a premium cabin book enjoying an adult beverage, time of day appropriate, and wouldn't know and wouldn't care...
Did the FAs ask them to wear a mask? Where they eating and drinking albeit slowly. I don't expect FAs to sit there with a stop watch to determine if you are "actively eating and drinking." Probably more to this than what's suggested.
Personally when I'm on a plane I'm engrossed in a move or hopefully in a premium cabin book enjoying an adult beverage, time of day appropriate, and wouldn't know and wouldn't care what others are doing around me. And long as they are quite not my concern.
Ben, South Africa Sunday. Orthodox Jews today...you are so much better than this. Sure, you found a way to work both into travel but you are way too smart to not understand the buttons you were pushing. Pull it together.
I think some are misunderstanding what vaccines does. Vaccine does not prevent catching or spreading, it makes you immune or considerably decrease the effects by "training" immune system to know how to fight it. The only way to diminish spread is through quarantine and or masks, but also segregating people are 100% test to be negative with non tested people.
You can be vaccinated and still catch and spread covid. Mostly likely you will...
I think some are misunderstanding what vaccines does. Vaccine does not prevent catching or spreading, it makes you immune or considerably decrease the effects by "training" immune system to know how to fight it. The only way to diminish spread is through quarantine and or masks, but also segregating people are 100% test to be negative with non tested people.
You can be vaccinated and still catch and spread covid. Mostly likely you will asymptomatic or have very mild symptoms.
I flew round trip in J class from the US to Brazil on azul in October. I wore my mask getting on the plane, but as soon as drinks and food were served mask came off also slept with out the mask. First of all I had my own pod and there was no one around me second, airplanes ventilate their air 20-30 times per hour so the air is fresh. This whole masking thing is getting out of control. If you’re so nervous stay at home in the basement don’t fly no one is forcing you.
@Jeff +1
Violate the rule you should be barred from at least that airline...
When disobedience reaches a critical mass then enforcement would not only be problematic, it would be counterproductive.
It would not go well for any airline that banned close to half of its customers.
My last flight was on Alaska Airlines (in November). The FA’s couldn’t care less whether anyone wore masks. Quite a difference from Delta, where they were very good about reminding people.
It says a lot that these losers are happy to cover every other part of their head with a towel *except* for their mouth.
These terrorists should be banned from reentering the US.
Whether you believe in the effect of masks is irrelevant. It’s required on the flight and you agree to it when you purchase your ticket.
For those of you who are advocating against the mask enforcement policies (Stephen W, James, I'm looking at you), I urge you to think critically and rationally about your statements.
Every day we do things that keep us safe, like buckling a seat belt or putting on a bike helmet. But if we forget, or don’t do them (even once), we put ourselves and others at risk. A mask is no different. It only works...
For those of you who are advocating against the mask enforcement policies (Stephen W, James, I'm looking at you), I urge you to think critically and rationally about your statements.
Every day we do things that keep us safe, like buckling a seat belt or putting on a bike helmet. But if we forget, or don’t do them (even once), we put ourselves and others at risk. A mask is no different. It only works if you wear it. So always wear a mask when you’re out in public to protect yourself and others.
We’re all safer and stronger when we go all in. This, "individualist mindset" bullsh*t is why we're in this mess to begin with.
You guys have a brain. Use it.
Plane should have stopped on route and off loaded them.
I was thinking Damascus, Tripoli or Algiers ?
All have good quiet airports
I would think it would be more issue to divert to another country than to just continue on. If you divert to another country and take the anti-maskers off there is a good chance that country would deny them entry due to entry requirements. So now you have created more of an issue with a displaced airplane full of passengers that can't disembark and a crew that would most likely go illegal. It's better off...
I would think it would be more issue to divert to another country than to just continue on. If you divert to another country and take the anti-maskers off there is a good chance that country would deny them entry due to entry requirements. So now you have created more of an issue with a displaced airplane full of passengers that can't disembark and a crew that would most likely go illegal. It's better off to just continue and ban these passengers from flying United again.
I find it very odd that the passenger who expressed the concerns mentioned they drank in the bathroom because they were afraid to remove their mask. Really? You'd rather consume something in the airplane bathroom?? Shows how extreme some are thinking about the mask/no mask policy. I would think if you're that frightened, you really shouldn't fly.
On the main issue, obviously the crew felt intimidated and afraid to confront this group. They were...
I find it very odd that the passenger who expressed the concerns mentioned they drank in the bathroom because they were afraid to remove their mask. Really? You'd rather consume something in the airplane bathroom?? Shows how extreme some are thinking about the mask/no mask policy. I would think if you're that frightened, you really shouldn't fly.
On the main issue, obviously the crew felt intimidated and afraid to confront this group. They were probably worried they'd lose their jobs in case of discrimination.
This whole thing is messed up.
A rule is a rule and this is Uniteds issue. And as someone who was actually on this exact flight I can tell u these ppl were wearing their masks most of the time but were still written down to be added to the no fly list. I also had the opportunity to talk to these ppl mid flight and if I remember correctly all but 1 of them have antibodies. Still doesnt make it...
A rule is a rule and this is Uniteds issue. And as someone who was actually on this exact flight I can tell u these ppl were wearing their masks most of the time but were still written down to be added to the no fly list. I also had the opportunity to talk to these ppl mid flight and if I remember correctly all but 1 of them have antibodies. Still doesnt make it right but therye not exactly infecting the world. And this complainer is kinda stupid bc a mask wont really protect u unless n95 and going to the restroom is the worst idea .
@Ben: why all my post now need moderation? Could you please show me a single post that I offended anyone or said something inappropriate?
If someone is not wearing a mask, just wear one yourself. I won't get into the mask debate but for all those science experts posting here we all know a mask bought on Etsy is like putting lipstick on a pig. It is a piece of fabric that might avoid fluids flowing into your seat mate when you sneeze but we all know that if someone next to you have Covid and that person os...
If someone is not wearing a mask, just wear one yourself. I won't get into the mask debate but for all those science experts posting here we all know a mask bought on Etsy is like putting lipstick on a pig. It is a piece of fabric that might avoid fluids flowing into your seat mate when you sneeze but we all know that if someone next to you have Covid and that person os coughing or sneezing the chances a piece of fabric will hold the virus is very small. Now Dr. Faucci is saying we probably need to double mask. Yes, let's all use one mask on top of another one. The fact is this virus will never go away and masks to help on a 10 hour flight should be N95 which makes very hard for someone to wear one for 10 hours.
If they refused to wear masks from the beginning, they should have been deplaned, end of story
@ Ben -- This post sums up why I will continue to not fly until I receive a vaccine.
The complainer wrote:
"We went into the bathroom to drink because we were afraid to remove our masks"
Science also shows this is the absolute last place you should be removing your mask on a plane. There is zero air circulation and filtering, like in the main cabin, and unfortunately where everyone feels "safe" and momentarily removes their mask.
Ohhhhhh you know why nothing will happen....
The comment was that the lack of mask wearing was observed before the flight ever left the gate. Chances are high that the passengers didn't even wear masks as they boarded.
There is no reason the flight should have left the gate and it is completely on United for subjecting other passengers who wanted to comply with a group of non-compliant passengers.
If there are that many that don't want to mask up,...
The comment was that the lack of mask wearing was observed before the flight ever left the gate. Chances are high that the passengers didn't even wear masks as they boarded.
There is no reason the flight should have left the gate and it is completely on United for subjecting other passengers who wanted to comply with a group of non-compliant passengers.
If there are that many that don't want to mask up, then let them charter a flight and find an airline that will carry them.
@annabelle - the comment about bigotry was directed at a commentator who used a very broad brush and painted an entire country as an apartheid state in a post about certain people not wearing masks. This has nothing to do with mask wearing and about its enforcement or lack thereof.
I am Jewish so no anti-Semitism here:
The ultra-Orthodox generally do not follow the rules - they do what they want (RE: Covid)
These individuals should be put on the no-fly list. Embarrassing behavior.
Antisocial behavior from Ultra Orthodox Jews on Israel flights is nothing new. This is just a new dimension to an existing phenomenon. There have been major compliance issues with staying seated, sitting next to women, etc.
Just ask the NY officials trying to deal the with multiple super-spreader events in Brooklyn and New Rochelle within the Orthodox communities. Any type of enforcement and you are immediately labeled as anti-Semitic and a selective enforcer.
I'm not sure what FAs could have done other than reporting the passenger names to UA so they could be put on the do-not-fly list.
@Stephan W: wow, unscientific call for "science" That's... a new level.
First, vaccination has NOT been proven to stop the spread of the virus. EVEN IF you have taken the shots (both of them), you can still carry the virus in your nose and spread it to unvaccinated people. Until a significant (as in, most people who want it) portion of the population are vaccinated, masks must be worn.
(btw, please read on the science...
@Stephan W: wow, unscientific call for "science" That's... a new level.
First, vaccination has NOT been proven to stop the spread of the virus. EVEN IF you have taken the shots (both of them), you can still carry the virus in your nose and spread it to unvaccinated people. Until a significant (as in, most people who want it) portion of the population are vaccinated, masks must be worn.
(btw, please read on the science of the existing vaccines. the point above is well known. eg. https://www.healthline.com/health-news/you-can-still-spread-develop-covid-19-after-getting-a-vaccine-what-to-know#What-the-vaccine-does,-doesnt-do "But if you get infected, it may not prevent you from spreading the virus to others. That’s something scientists are studying now.").
Second, masks work. It's been proven. Do you have a scientific article proving otherwise?
Finally, the "raindance politics of mask wearing" mostly consists of anti-maskers and anti-vaxxers screaming about COVID-19 being a hoax. I agree: let's stop it. Any adult refusing to wear masks should be banned from flying. Given that those same people raised weapons against a certain country before, they should be on terrorist watchlist also. Children are more problematic, but their parents should take every effort for compliance. Anyone saying anything related to "recovery rate of 99%" should be made to pay the funeral of the 1% unfortunate, while being banned from both airlines AND hospitals for covid, also those people should be placed on lowest possible priority list for care in a hospital with more than 30% beds occupied by covid patients.
Seriously, people are dying. Can we stop the politics and put on the ****ed masks? Is it so hard? (especially true that you are allowed to take off mask for eating and drinking).
And, if you ever mention the word "science," please provide your citation. Actual citation, from either peer-reviewed sources or trust-worthy institution (e.g. this is from Mayo Clinic: https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/coronavirus-mask/art-20485449). If not, please shut your yap about "science." You clearly don't know what it is. "Science" isn't "because I say so" or "because my celebrity says so" or even "because I flew once without masks and survive" (yep, survival bias; science! READ IT UP or shut your yap).
Just like in Brooklyn, the Orthodox Jews play by their own set of rules. If you call them out, you are labeled as antisemitic!
And it only took like 10 comments for someone to invoke the "youre a bigot" card when someone else says anything remotely negative about Israel....
And you wonder why noone said anything about the masks....
@James S - great to see your bigotry and hate shine through. No country is perfect, but Israel is the only or closest thing to a democracy in the entire ME. Please don't visit the "apartheid" state. Better go to the Gaza Strip or Iran - I'm sure you'll be treated MUCH better there.
Not that I have something against any religion as long as it don't affect me. But Jews are known for not complying with just about anything around Covid. In Belgium we have a big comunity of Jews in Antwerp and almost every day the police have to stop partie's, religious events etc from Jews. Of course from locals too but not that much.
But the only responability here is from United!
Stephen W what would your "science based" solution be???
Why wouldn't they implement a mask-free zone for those that would like to fly so?
Who cares. FA's aren't the mask police. They don't get paid enough to try and force people to wear masks. Tell the pilot and move on.
You cant add these turds to the no-fly list like you should or you ll be considered antisemitic
You cant discipline these turds in flight, lest someone flim it and you ll be considered antisemitic
Imagine the outrage if the captain decided to de-board one of these turds.
Even the Israeli govt cant handle the ultra-orthodox communities within their own country, and prevent them from mass gatherings.
@Stephen W - there have been numerous scientific studies (both lab-based and those based on epidemiologic data) that show strong correlation between mask wearing and reducing spread of the virus.
We live in an imperfect world - of course the virus continues to spread because in many places people are still not wearing masks, and in places where adherence is high, there are still scenarios where people don't wear masks. It is not foolproof and...
@Stephen W - there have been numerous scientific studies (both lab-based and those based on epidemiologic data) that show strong correlation between mask wearing and reducing spread of the virus.
We live in an imperfect world - of course the virus continues to spread because in many places people are still not wearing masks, and in places where adherence is high, there are still scenarios where people don't wear masks. It is not foolproof and it does not completely prevent spread. The point is, it can REDUCE spread.
Also ostensibly if someone is willing to wear a mask responsibly they are also highly interested in getting the vaccine (the 'responsible' thing as you say) - why not both? What say you to a person who is both trying to get vaccinated AND still wears a mask?
There is also no evidence to say that vaccinated individuals don't carry or spread the virus - so even post-vaccination before we reach herd immunity people who are vaccinated need to wear masks.
You can still spread the Virus even If you are vaccinated. Masks are the only way to go.
A long-haul flight to Israel sounds like hell on earth. If I was forced to visit the apartheid state, I'd do it via the shortest connection possible.
The Israeli Governments own figures show that under 35% of arriving passengers obey the country’s quarantine rules so this flouting of the rules doesn’t surprise me at all.
People’s flagrant disregard for the rules and others are why Ben Gurion airport will effectively close tonight for the rest of the month and why it may remain closed for longer.
I live in Miami and there are a hundreds of orthodox jews that wear no masks (this weekend at Bayside during my bike ride and in Miami Beach, as well, along Pinetree Drive, Collins Avenue etc).
I am going to stop tapping into this website as all things have changed. People have no respect and airline travel is 100% different now.
No need to watch the news to get agitated.
I was talking to crew about this the other day and they said that they don’t really like to get into fights with customers. They will tell people to put on their masks and then will just report them to the airline.
Add these turds to the no-fly list. Permanently. Complete disregard and lack of respect. Disgusting.