A longtime OMAAT reader who prefers to remain anonymous shared a recent situation he encountered on United Airlines, and asked for my advice. This is an interesting one, so I wanted to discuss it here.
In this post:
Passenger missed United Airlines flight because door closed early
A traveler was scheduled to fly United Airlines business class (on a paid cash fare) from Newark to San Francisco to Calgary. While the flight from Newark to San Francisco was initially scheduled to depart at 6:30AM, the departure time had been updated to 7:00AM in advance, with boarding scheduled to finish at 6:45AM, according to official communication.
The traveler was in the United Club, and a United Club representative even confirmed these times to him, including boarding being scheduled to finish at 6:45AM. So he arrived at the gate at 6:38AM, which should have been plenty early, since United requests that passengers board their plane at least 15 minutes before departure.
When he arrived at the gate, he was surprised to find that the door had already closed. Gate agents working another flight tried to call the gate agent for this flight to ask if she would let him on, but they were told no.
So he returned to the United Club, where the representative was shocked — he also saw the flight should have finished boarding at 6:45AM and not earlier, and the passenger was back in the United Club by that time, after having arrived at a closed gate.
The club agent called the gate agent for the flight, and was told that the passenger needed to be rebooked. As a result, he was rebooked on a nonstop Air Canada flight from Newark to Calgary. The reader reached out to customer service, and was offered 2,500 miles for the inconvenience.
The reader asks what his legal rights are, as he’s keen to take further action. He’s especially frustrated that the airline wouldn’t even admit to being in the wrong for closing the door early.
For what it’s worth, below is a picture of the monitor at the departure gate, showing the 7AM departure. As you can see, it’s 6:40AM when the picture is taken, and the monitor says “boarding now.” Also, as you can see, the monitor lists the flight as being in “final boarding.”
Below is a screenshot of the United app, showing that boarding was estimated to end at 6:45AM.
Another interesting wrinkle is that the United Club agent confirmed that someone else ended up flying in his seat, so the gate agent cleared a standard or upgrade into this seat.
What recourse does the traveler have?
Let me start by saying that the traveler did absolutely nothing wrong here. United Airlines posted an updated departure time, and he showed up at the gate well ahead of the time that boarding was scheduled to be finished. A United Club agent even confirmed the timeline for him.
The way I view it, there are two matters at play here — the initial denied boarding, and then the downgrade. So, what is this traveler legally entitled to, and what is the right thing for United to do?
What is this traveler legally entitled to?
The Department of Transportation (DOT) publishes guidelines about situations where airlines are legally obliged to compensate customers. Denied boarding compensation is typically intended for situations where airlines oversell flights, but applies under some other circumstances as well.
Per the DOT’s website:
You qualify for involuntary denied boarding compensation if an airline requires you to give up your seat on an oversold flight and you have a confirmed reservation, you checked-in to your flight on time, you arrived at the departure gate on time, and the airline cannot get you to your destination within one hour of your flight’s original arrival time.
When it comes to this situation, the traveler fulfills most of these requirements (like having a confirmed reservation, checking in on time, and being at the gate on time), but doesn’t meet the last one. That’s because he was rebooked on a nonstop Newark to Calgary flight that ended up arriving before his initial itinerary was supposed to (though in economy, rather than business class). So unfortunately for that reason alone, denied boarding compensation wouldn’t apply.
So, does the government mandate that United provide downgrade compensation in this situation? Well, that’s a tricky one as well. The airline would likely consider this a voluntary downgrade, in the sense that he could have been rebooked on another itinerary in business class, though it would have likely gotten in much later.
That’s not to say that United didn’t do anything wrong, but rather that the law isn’t written in a way that really makes the customer whole in a situation like this. The DOT’s regulations don’t consider every possible scenario, and this is one of those that slips through the cracks.
Now, let me add the obvious disclaimer that I’m not a lawyer, and this is just my interpretation of the regulations.
What should United do for this traveler?
I think the fair resolution from United would be to:
- Refund the fare difference between business and economy
- Issue some number of miles or a travel credit as a gesture of goodwill for the inconvenience (more than 2,500 miles)
How do you actually get that resolution, though? As anyone who has reached out to airline customer service may know, it’s not always so easy. I’d send a succinct email to customer relations explaining what happened with pictures of the departures board. If you don’t get the response you’re looking for, simply email again and ask for it to be escalated.
If that doesn’t work, I’d do what I hate doing, but which seems to work quite well — I’d email the CEO, as the email then typically gets forwarded to some sort of executive customer service, which is a bit more competent and empowered.
United screwed up here, and needs to take accountability. However, actually getting an airline to be accountable isn’t always so easy.
Bottom line
A United Airlines passenger dealt with a frustrating situation. A flight was delayed by 30 minutes, and he then showed up 22 minutes prior to the new departure time (and seven minutes prior to the new door closing time), only to find the gate closed. On this paid business class fare, he ended up being rebooked in Air Canada economy on a nonstop flight. So while he arrived earlier than initially planned, he traveled significantly less comfortably.
Unfortunately government regulations don’t really protect the traveler in this situation (at least based on my interpretation), but United should do better than offering 2,500 bonus miles. It seems reasonable to offer both the fare difference between business class and economy class, plus some substantial gesture of goodwill, in my opinion.
What do you make of this strange situation?
They didn't mention whether or not They called the passenger on the intercom. Usually, they give customers three or four tries before they give up the seat to somebody else.
This passenger did nothing wrong. They should've opened the door and let him in, but especially not give away his seat. He was on time. Technically he was 20 minutes early.
You kind of expect this kind treatment to employees because they are...
They didn't mention whether or not They called the passenger on the intercom. Usually, they give customers three or four tries before they give up the seat to somebody else.
This passenger did nothing wrong. They should've opened the door and let him in, but especially not give away his seat. He was on time. Technically he was 20 minutes early.
You kind of expect this kind treatment to employees because they are on standby but never to a paying customer, especially a first class or business class passenger.
They should compensate him with a first class seat anywhere He wants to go in the world with an apology from the CEO and an extra 10,000 miles to use as he chooses.
We had a rather same incident here in the Philippines a few months back. It happened in Clark International. A group was denied to check-in for their flight with Eva bound to SFO via TPE. The flight will depart at 12NN. They arrived to check-in at... drumroll please... 11:30AM. And they had the audacity to go on live on Social media to berate BR for not letting them check-in.
This is hilarious, earlier this evening we arrived at the gate ( United flight out of Denver) early and we were told they were no longer boarding the plane. My partner and I were flying armed with a prisoner who we were extraditing back to another state. We explained our situation ( first flight was an hour delay) and upon arriving at Denver, the bridge to the plane malfunctioned resulting in a 20 minute delay....
This is hilarious, earlier this evening we arrived at the gate ( United flight out of Denver) early and we were told they were no longer boarding the plane. My partner and I were flying armed with a prisoner who we were extraditing back to another state. We explained our situation ( first flight was an hour delay) and upon arriving at Denver, the bridge to the plane malfunctioned resulting in a 20 minute delay. Our flight crew from the first flight called ahead to let them know we would be there just prior to departure and was told they would be waiting until we arrived . This was confirmed by the supervisor on site who stated she could see in the notes that this was communicated ahead. Long story short, they compensated us $15 each in food vouchers and put us on an overnight flight to New Jersey… and refused to pay for a rental car for us to finish our trip back to Massachusetts.
As I looked at my app, it actually shows that the plane departed 10 minutes early from the scheduled time.
If this guy had a business class seat, why wasn't he at the gate when boarding started? UA typically starts boarding at least 35 minutes prior to departure; and they boarding business class first after families. So what was his excuse for showing up with 7 minutes left to board?
Oh yeah. You raised a valid point there. United boards their plane per grouping and 1st and business class goes first before evyerone else.
United compensated him. He arrived earlier than scheduled. I am a UA flight attendant, and while I could write a novel on things we could and should do better, this one doesn't fly. I also commute, and every single delay is posted "estimated". Announcements are always made, and include disclaimers for Passengers to remain close by in case anything changes. Whenever I am working a delayed flight, there is always "the one" we wait on....
United compensated him. He arrived earlier than scheduled. I am a UA flight attendant, and while I could write a novel on things we could and should do better, this one doesn't fly. I also commute, and every single delay is posted "estimated". Announcements are always made, and include disclaimers for Passengers to remain close by in case anything changes. Whenever I am working a delayed flight, there is always "the one" we wait on. Despite the fact everyone else some how got the message, it never seems to make it to the lounge. Give me a break. The app tells you when boarding begins. I think United was super generous for giving compensation in the 1st place.. Just my opinion, I do not speak for United
I have had the same situation on Delta!
There is no answer!
If the cabin crew shut the doors early,
It’s tough Crap! You aré screwed!
Airlines do not care about their customers!
Customers are nothing more then a bother to them. Treated like an old cow
I thought if a flight was delayed, the airline could always update the time and make it earlier than the delayed take off time. I’ve gotten emails for delayed flight advising that you should still get to the airport at you scheduled time just in case the airline updates the time. So to me the customer was wrong.
Yea, the interpretation of the DOT regulation is completely wrong. The airline was able to get him there on time on his originally scheduled flights. He CHOSE to not be at the gate at the SCHEDULED departure time. Thats 100% on the pax. Not the screen even says “Est” meaning Estimated. Pax is entitled to nothing. This is the same as a no show.
From United’s Contract of Carriage:
“UA will promptly provide Passengers...
Yea, the interpretation of the DOT regulation is completely wrong. The airline was able to get him there on time on his originally scheduled flights. He CHOSE to not be at the gate at the SCHEDULED departure time. Thats 100% on the pax. Not the screen even says “Est” meaning Estimated. Pax is entitled to nothing. This is the same as a no show.
From United’s Contract of Carriage:
“UA will promptly provide Passengers the best available information regarding known delays, cancellations, misconnections and diversions, but UA is not liable for any misstatements or other errors or omissions in connection with providing such information. No employee, agent or representative of UA can bind UA legally by reason of any statements relating to flight status or other information. Except to the extent provided in this Rule, UA shall not be liable for failing to operate any flight according to schedule, or for any change in flight schedule, with or without notice to the passenger.”
By purchasing a ticket, the passenger agreed to this. United is not obligated to do squat. They did help him out and offered 2500 miles because they are a good company with good customer service. He needs to give this up to “lesson learned”.
It was only delayed by a half hour. I would’ve stayed by the gate area. Often a delayed flight ends out being able to leave sooner than the announced delay. The only time I will leave the gate area is if they specifically state come back to the gate at a certain time. I had that happen on a flight to Dublin that was scheduled to depart at 7:00 pm. They said come back to gate at 9:00 pm. Long story short. They ended out scrubbing the flight at 11:30 pm.
Gosh I see lots of United flights departing before the published departure times. Seems to be a pattern. Mostly due to management's pushing agents to close doors early. Maybe the dot should do some monitoring of this disturbing behavior.
One thing to leave early if all checked in passengers are on board, another story if they leave early knowing checked in passengers are still missing.
It's not just United.
It's a combo of pushing for on time departure and having just a single agent at gate.
Delta is so obsessed, they put a screen on the jet bridge with a countdown timer.
The flight was a 630am departure and pushed back to 700am due to a late inbound. Those times are estimated . The gate agents have so many minutes to turn the plane around based on its capacity. When they started boarding the man would of received a text and should of proceeded to the gate at that time since Group 1 would board first. Also the united club is in the same concourse and only a 2 min walk to the gate .
As a lawyer, I would suggest that United violated its contract of service with the passenger and can be held responsible for breach of contract. In case might also be made for additional damages if any resulted from the alternative flight. For example, if meetings were missed because of flight arrived later, which doesn't seem to be the case, or, if the passenger suffered any physical ailment due to sitting in the economy seat. This...
As a lawyer, I would suggest that United violated its contract of service with the passenger and can be held responsible for breach of contract. In case might also be made for additional damages if any resulted from the alternative flight. For example, if meetings were missed because of flight arrived later, which doesn't seem to be the case, or, if the passenger suffered any physical ailment due to sitting in the economy seat. This is not legal advice, but a general comment by a lawyer or more than 30 years experience.
I still think it's the passenger issue if they call your name and your not there then doors closed they do try and locate you they do have the powers to close early so it falls on passenger even if they said a different time
Can you imagine the chaos if a majority of the passengers showed up within 10 minutes of closing ? I would have been there hours early and already received my upgrade . ( he-he )
My view is that customers who often find themselves in the United Club or Polaris Club should be properly informed by the monitors and the United App. No early gate closures. Passenger should get same benefits based on original itinerary.
turning up 7 minutes before boarding closes the moron deserves it
If you airplane is delayed by less than an hour - NEVER LEAVE THE GATE area. Sorry, this is on the passenger - you snooze you lose.
Airlines need set departure and boarding times.
You can't really expect the airline to hold a delayed airplane even longer and risk missed connections for many so that one guy in the lounge can make up his mind to show up at the gate. Anyone who has done any amount of flying should know that departure times on delayed flights are always subject to change in either direction and the best place to be is at the gate.
Exactly so .
Rookie mistake.
Departure times that are pushed our can always be brought back in without notice. You need to be in the gate area at the scheduled boarding time even if there is a published delay. If they can get out of there closer to the scheduled time, they will, every single time.
There are stories like this published constantly and this is neither a new nor an unusual situation. I feel no sympathy for the person who missed his or her flight.
Garbage. Lies.
Wist for 3 hours? Come on bro. They even sell lounge passes to wait out delays.
The scheduled departure time is 630am. The plane may have arrived late and they posted a ESTIMATED dep time which is subject to change. He should of been on board as soon as they started boarding . He failed to mention when the flight starts boarding he will get a text .
This wasn't the Lufthansa first class terminal , where the employee escorts the pax to a Mercedes to drive him to the plane .
Hey all , he was a no-show for his own avoidable reasons . How could the gate agent know where he was ? Telepathy ?
Well, ot was supposed to leave at 6:30 so he should been in the area by 6:15 if approximated to 7. When a flight is delayed, it wants to close the gap so he should have been three before 6:45.
Traveling in Business vlass, he should have been onboard at 6:15. He is more at fault
When it comes to compensation between business and economy that gets insanely tricky. The airline will want to compensate the cost between business and economy pricing economy at a "Y" class fare which happens to be the highest price economy ticket possible? A lot of times this fare is higher than the discounted business class tickets. This is the way airlines get out of paying differences between business and economy. The airline has no way...
When it comes to compensation between business and economy that gets insanely tricky. The airline will want to compensate the cost between business and economy pricing economy at a "Y" class fare which happens to be the highest price economy ticket possible? A lot of times this fare is higher than the discounted business class tickets. This is the way airlines get out of paying differences between business and economy. The airline has no way of figuring out how much the economy class ticket was at the time of his booking because it all depends on what the load was during the booking process.
he did get rebooked on a nonstop so that is a plus but maybe 10,000 miles would be a better compensation. as i always get to gate early more than 20 minutes prior to boarding begins i feel he is somewhat at fault
Even if they'd allowed him to board he'd been more pissed off that he'd be in Economy as they'd assigned his business class seat to someone else! So technically he made out better going non stop, arriving within the same window and now negotiating for a refund in class difference.
Typical airline bullshit these days they are all hopeless always delays am jack of it
Scott has obviously never travelled business class or first class.
Those classes are normally required to board later than economy.
No earlier. They usually board first.
Haha tell me you have no idea about flying without telling me - what a moron
United is a mess and if you think they treat their passengers poorly, try being one of their employees. Sure, this guy was pushing the envelope and many jealous economy passengers may not like how he played the game - but like it or not, he was playing by United's rules and United changed the rules mid game and United should pay by fully refunding his Business Class seat, while charging him the lowest previously...
United is a mess and if you think they treat their passengers poorly, try being one of their employees. Sure, this guy was pushing the envelope and many jealous economy passengers may not like how he played the game - but like it or not, he was playing by United's rules and United changed the rules mid game and United should pay by fully refunding his Business Class seat, while charging him the lowest previously posted coach fare for Air Canada's direct flight to Calgary.
Everyone knows last-minute coach fares can easily cost similar to an earlier purchased Business Class seat. United already screwed this passenger once, they shouldn't try to screw him twice!
On the other hand, I always arrive at the gate early, and at the very latest, when boarding time is originially scheduled to begin, and if a delay is posted, I never count on that delay to give me more time to shop, eat or drink in the airport. Airlines are notorious for changing departure times and GATES so I always want a safety buffer. For me, the days of showing up 7 minutes before the cabin door is scheduled to close is long gone.
The passenger is at fault. The original time is the time passengers need to be at the gate. Anything later is always estimates and flight crews do their best to get everyone on board as fast as possible to make up that late time. He is lucky they compensated him at all
How on earth does one get the email address for the CEO of United Airlines??
ceoemail.com
What a selfish ass. Everyone else made it on time. It’s better that the flight leaves early and arrives early. Early is on time. If you are taking your jolly old time sipping cocktails and eating pretzels it’s not the airlines fault. Plus if it is intentional destination they need time to pull your luggage off. United is right. Early departures make a huge difference and gate availability for other departures. Get a life looser....
What a selfish ass. Everyone else made it on time. It’s better that the flight leaves early and arrives early. Early is on time. If you are taking your jolly old time sipping cocktails and eating pretzels it’s not the airlines fault. Plus if it is intentional destination they need time to pull your luggage off. United is right. Early departures make a huge difference and gate availability for other departures. Get a life looser. And get to the gate at least 30 minutes before.
Other airlines also do this.
Happened to me several times with Lufthansa in Frankfurt. Arrival from Longhaul to a Shorthaul flight early morning. Longhaul a few minutes late. I arrived to the connection gate 25 mins before departure to be told that they didn’t expect me to make the connection so the doors were already closed and I was rebooked onto the next flight. Very annoying.
Not enough connection time ? Bet you allow for more connection time in the future .
@Galoot
Or,
Bet the airline shouldn't be selling a 55 min connection then manage to delay the incoming flight 30 mins.
Stockholm syndrome.
Stop covering for the airline when it's their fault not the passengers.
Eskimo ... you are correct that the airline attempts to sell brief connection times , but I manage to bypass their choice somehow , and get a longer connection time . Sometimes I use flight numbers , and other times I phone the airline ticketing and reservations agent . It is not easy , but can be done . And I am not covering for the airline : I am simply asking myself if I...
Eskimo ... you are correct that the airline attempts to sell brief connection times , but I manage to bypass their choice somehow , and get a longer connection time . Sometimes I use flight numbers , and other times I phone the airline ticketing and reservations agent . It is not easy , but can be done . And I am not covering for the airline : I am simply asking myself if I want a leisurely stress-free journey ? I am disabled , so I cannot run to the gate in any event . I gave you an uptick ... cheers .
@Galoot.
While I am happy that you're such an optimistic person but if you're disabled, you of all should know better.
If you missed your flight because there was no elevators or escalator, and you need to take much longer time with the stairs.
Is it your mistake that you are disabled and didn't research about facilities or their mistake to not provide accommodations for disabled person.
Eskimo ... I gave you an uptick for your logic . However , in my case I've not missed my connection because either I ensure I will have a long connection time , or I stay overnight at an airport hotel ; for example the Nikko Narita in Japan , or the Heathrow Hilton in UK at Terminal 4 . The main thing is I get to the gate with plenty of time , and...
Eskimo ... I gave you an uptick for your logic . However , in my case I've not missed my connection because either I ensure I will have a long connection time , or I stay overnight at an airport hotel ; for example the Nikko Narita in Japan , or the Heathrow Hilton in UK at Terminal 4 . The main thing is I get to the gate with plenty of time , and I've experienced a 3 hour delay on boarding at Heathrow because of a mechanical-repair issue . Once my red eye was late to Chicago in the middle of a blizzard , but I had 2 hours or so for my connection to Atlanta . The plane had a lot of vacant seats , perhaps caused by local transport to the airport in Chicago . They were no-shows , and could be helped if they did arrive at the airport . I was surprised that the plane was de-iced and went to Atlanta after delay . The airline has no means of knowing where the no-shows could be . Cheers .
I admit, I'd still be upset even if it was my own jackassery that caused the missed flight, but my mind wouldn't go immediately to "I'm going to sue them," especially since it was partially my fault for dragging my heels.
Good thinking .
Same thing happened to me
I live in a small town, small airport Flight was on an American Express to Chicago then on to London., England
On my way to the airport and ran upon a traffic accident and had to reroute…
Flight was scheduled to take off 7:00 am I arrived at the airport at 6:30 am. I was informed that the plane had already shut its doors
The only...
Same thing happened to me
I live in a small town, small airport Flight was on an American Express to Chicago then on to London., England
On my way to the airport and ran upon a traffic accident and had to reroute…
Flight was scheduled to take off 7:00 am I arrived at the airport at 6:30 am. I was informed that the plane had already shut its doors
The only way I could board the plane is to board without my luggage
I was informed that if I need to board with a United I must be 2 hours early
We are a very small airport
The plane usually has a total of 25~30 passengers aboard for a direct flight to Chicago
I think I ended up catching the flight the next day which really messed up my vacation and my whole schedule for the week including excursions
I did write to the customer support team but did not receive any kind of response
So , take a helicopter from your home to the airport 3 hours early . Problem solved .
Take a helicopter from your home to the airport 3 hours early . Problem solved .
There should be a much closer alignment between the club and the gate. These things happen all the time when delays occur. There is almost no reason why if you have checked into the club that you wouldn’t have an intention of getting to the gate. If you aren’t in the airport, that’s one thing. Unfortunately, you can’t tell when a person checks out if the club, which would help determine if they are still...
There should be a much closer alignment between the club and the gate. These things happen all the time when delays occur. There is almost no reason why if you have checked into the club that you wouldn’t have an intention of getting to the gate. If you aren’t in the airport, that’s one thing. Unfortunately, you can’t tell when a person checks out if the club, which would help determine if they are still there and do they have time. In this case, United screwed up. They wanted to get out in a sooner window so they could arrive on time. And they sacrificed this guy for that cause.
Zev ... he wasn't there ... bet he won't make that mistake again .
If the flight was delayed then I would think the crew would still want to get out as close to the original time as possible, so hurry up and get it taken care of and leave! You should still show up at the original flight time and be ready to asap
That's nuts. If the new agreement is that the flight will leave at a later time, then we will plan and act accordingly. United violated the new agreement. We're not going to just wait around the gate for hours and hours.
SA ... it wasn't hours and hours ... it was a few minutes .
Similar situation but the gate agents did the right thing.
SAN IAH EWR
I was connecting in IAH. First leg was late on a regional aircraft. Had to take the tram and then jog / run to the gate. Boarding was closed and my previously upgraded seat gone. Basically I pointed out that I had had the upgrade since earlier in the morning. They knew I was on a connecting flight and I...
Similar situation but the gate agents did the right thing.
SAN IAH EWR
I was connecting in IAH. First leg was late on a regional aircraft. Had to take the tram and then jog / run to the gate. Boarding was closed and my previously upgraded seat gone. Basically I pointed out that I had had the upgrade since earlier in the morning. They knew I was on a connecting flight and I wasn't late , all the while catching my breath. There was a quick huddle with gate staff and one went down to move the passenger in my seat telling to wait until he returned to board. All good.
Wow, so many of you airline detectives are reading too much into this. My UA flight leaves in about 10 hours. The UA app shows "estimated" boarding and departure times. So, "estimated" on the departure screen pictured isn't some automatic license for UA to adjust times as it sees fit, whether or not a flight is delayed.
FACT: U.S. airlines don't treat flights in the Canadian Buffer Zone as "International."
The gate agent knew...
Wow, so many of you airline detectives are reading too much into this. My UA flight leaves in about 10 hours. The UA app shows "estimated" boarding and departure times. So, "estimated" on the departure screen pictured isn't some automatic license for UA to adjust times as it sees fit, whether or not a flight is delayed.
FACT: U.S. airlines don't treat flights in the Canadian Buffer Zone as "International."
The gate agent knew who was missing and should have made every effort to board that passenger after UA changed the boarding expectation. That is especially true for someone in a forward cabin. The "old UA" would have done that. For those of you worried about others missing their connections, it's Calgary, not Chicago.
I definitely give myself at least 4 hours connection time in San Francisco , because the food choices in the United terminal are so good , and the food on the airline is so mediocre .
UA flight attendant here. You are 100% correct about the SFO food, best airport food I've found in 33 years international and domestic flying, Although , I'm not sure I'd arrive 4 hours early for ANY meal. But kudos to you for seeing the sunny side in life. :)
Fact - Airlines treat all international destructionsbthe same.
Fact - this was on his domestic portion from EWR to SFO.
Fact - If a flight is delayed and everyone is on board but 1 local passenger the manager or tower will make the decision to go early.
Source - Me being a gate agent and having been in this situation numerous times over the past 9 years.
I am a travel agent dealing with a lot of business travel. I don't care what time is posted - I tell my guys be there at the original time. One, airlines are deadheading employees everywhere and will grab any chance to get a seat. Two, I am seeing it happen so often that 30-40 minute delay goes closer to on time. Southwest is famous for delaying, then backpedalibg the time until the flight is...
I am a travel agent dealing with a lot of business travel. I don't care what time is posted - I tell my guys be there at the original time. One, airlines are deadheading employees everywhere and will grab any chance to get a seat. Two, I am seeing it happen so often that 30-40 minute delay goes closer to on time. Southwest is famous for delaying, then backpedalibg the time until the flight is actually on time. I don't care what the media says - planes everywhere are FULL! If you want to be on that flight, be in the gate area. I recently had someone miss a flight that closed the doors 25 minutes prior to departure - she was coming off of a delayed flight and ran to get there. I got her upgraded, a hotel, dinner, and breakfast, but she still had to fly next day (FLIFO).
You are a good sort of travel agent .
when you are down graded UA refunds difference in fare request united.com/refunds
What a fool to think the plane is going to wait for anyone when it’s already delayed. Flights can and do make up time and will push back as soon as they’re finished boarding. No sympathy here.
On an already delayed flight nonetheless. Sorry but not sorry the guy didn’t show up at the gate. United has every right to get the plane out to make up time from the delay.
Estimated time of departure/end of boarding goes out the window on delayed flights.
Give yourself lots of extra time. Don't wait until it's so close to boarding time.
I was just talking to a United flight attendant about this subject on Sunday. I remember in the 90’s the airline had to let you on the plane if you arrived at the gate by departure time. I distinctly remember rushing through JFK and getting to the gate just in time on several occasions. Not sure when they changed it. Now it seems arbitrary, with planes often pulling back well before departure time. I know to always be at least at the gate area during boarding.
Interesting because I was just talking to a United flight attendant about this subject on Sunday. I remember in the 90’s the airline had to let you on the plane if you arrived at the gate by departure time. I distinctly remember rushing through JFK and getting to the gate just in time on several occasions. Not sure when they changed it. Now it seems arbitrary, with planes often pulling back well before departure time....
Interesting because I was just talking to a United flight attendant about this subject on Sunday. I remember in the 90’s the airline had to let you on the plane if you arrived at the gate by departure time. I distinctly remember rushing through JFK and getting to the gate just in time on several occasions. Not sure when they changed it. Now it seems arbitrary, with planes often pulling back well before departure time. I know to always be at least at the gate area during boarding.
Arriving at the gate only a few minutes prior to door closing time is just plain STUPID!!! Why did he leave that are in the first place? Not very smart. No sympathies here, either.
Agree
As someone who is working for said airline we are told that delayed times are not concrete. If the crew is ready to go earlier than scheduled delayed time then they go. The wording in our internal system is that passengers should be in the gate area in case of an early departure. If the issue that caused the delay is resolved early then we go to minimize the delay. Is it messed up that...
As someone who is working for said airline we are told that delayed times are not concrete. If the crew is ready to go earlier than scheduled delayed time then they go. The wording in our internal system is that passengers should be in the gate area in case of an early departure. If the issue that caused the delay is resolved early then we go to minimize the delay. Is it messed up that they refused to let him on yes but unfortunately that’s the way United runs the operation. I agree with other people saying that it’s not smart to show up at the last moment, anything can change.
I haven’t read United’s contract of carriage but I’m 90% sure they cover this scenario. If your flight is delayed, any provided time after the originally scheduled departure is an ESTIMATE and you are required to be at the gate in time to board for your original departure time. It doesn’t matter what any other person or screen says, it’s on the guy for not showing at the gate before the door closed. Sucks to...
I haven’t read United’s contract of carriage but I’m 90% sure they cover this scenario. If your flight is delayed, any provided time after the originally scheduled departure is an ESTIMATE and you are required to be at the gate in time to board for your original departure time. It doesn’t matter what any other person or screen says, it’s on the guy for not showing at the gate before the door closed. Sucks to be him, but at least he was accommodated to his final destination and didn’t have to sit on the tail there.
And yet everyone else made it on board. I say Sir, what was the main reason for you coming to the airport? Again, everyone else made the flight. Take some responsibility.
I purchased a ticket from Tucson to San Diego for my son.He showed up on time 2 to 4 minutes and the plane did not have the doors closed and American Airlines would not let him bored.I will never purchase a ticket from them again.
Wondering if the passenger had luggage?? Aren't airlines obliged to offload luggage of passengers not boarded? In which case begs the question how could that have been done so quickly to let a flight leave early?
Only on international. Domestic leaves regardless…
The first segment was domestic…
Good question. I see where his utinary included a domestic stop before confusing to Calgary. On domestic flights, if a passenger does not board the flight, the luggage goes. In international flight, luggage is pulled if it shows passenger has not boarded. In this case. the bags could have been pulled in SFO or if another carrier out of there, bags would be transferred. This is one of those damned if you do, dammed if you don’t.
United was in the wrong - but they’ll never admit it it - I’d like to see any of the keyboard warriors react if it had happened to them - United did not hold up their end of the deal and then they ignored the customer - there is no excuse - the picture is clear - the flight should have still been boarding when the picture was taken - United isn’t doing anybody favors - they are paid to provide a service and they didn’t
I see you never missed a connection .......This scenario is quite common in the industry especially with celebrities or up front riders ....Once the door is closed the plane Belongs to the Pilot once the brakes are released the ground to gate time starts and their takeoff slot is dictated by the brake time.......
The airlines states to be at the gate no later than the original scheduled departure time. If you look at the board it says estimated departure 7am. They alway try to leave as closed to original departure. I’m sure the whole plane had connections in San Francisco.
I’ve had flights that have been delayed 24 hours. Are passengers supposed to camp at the gate?
Yes .
What use is an update that tells you the flight is delayed but you must show up at the same time anyway?
I recently had a layover and stopped to grab some food in ATL. The airport was massive and I was rushing to eat estimated reaching the gate 30 mins before departure. I showed to the gate and it was empty. I looked around wondering if there was a gate change when I heard “last call”. The boarding was super early and it was a full flight.
This is not an unusual situation. Airlines will frequently move up a delayed departure estimate for a variety of reasons. Maybe a new aircraft becomes available. Experienced fliers know this and monitor the situation to avoid being left behind. The airlines do need to work on communicating to the latest status to the passengers.
I don't trust them enough to cut it that close on a late flight. If they can leave earlier (meaning less late) then they'll probably try to do it. But given the fact that he was in the club, they could have paged him, at the very least.
Likely they didn't know he was in the club , he was a no-show for his avoidable reasons .
This flyer should get a refund in the fare difference from business to economy. That could be a significant sum.
When departure is delayed, as in this case, the airline reserves the right to depart before the new time which they did in thiscase
As a former CO employee, we when delays were announced, we always told passengers to be at the gate at the previously assigned boarding time, just in case we were able to leave early. People who calculate the last possible minute arrival made my blood boil!
The responsibility falls back on BOTH parties. I have United Club, however, when I see that a delay is posted, I will first check at the gate to confirm everything, not a proxy desk at another location, This, we call "self responsibility". Based on the information received at the gate, I'll either stick around or head to the Club.
On the other hand, United should've honored their boarding times. But, I am slightly confused...
The responsibility falls back on BOTH parties. I have United Club, however, when I see that a delay is posted, I will first check at the gate to confirm everything, not a proxy desk at another location, This, we call "self responsibility". Based on the information received at the gate, I'll either stick around or head to the Club.
On the other hand, United should've honored their boarding times. But, I am slightly confused as to why the individual did not receive any boarding notifications. Obviously they had a smart phone, they should be responsible enough to have the app and their reservation affixed, no?
UA is very good about those notifications.
With a minimal delay such as this one it would've been prudent to just hang at the gate.
For future reference, read beyond just the ETDs - particularly if a reason for the delay is given. In this case, a reference to "cleaning" would've been the tip to expect minimum delay.
How many people got there earlier and got a seat? When you wait until the last minute you're at risk of problems. Moral of the story is show up early and get your seat.
This is why I NEVER arrive at the gate at the last minute. I'm there when they START boarding and for some time before that. You just never know what's going to happen!
Don’t leave the gate. If a flight
Is delayed, airlines often have the ability to leave earlier. This is NOT denied boarding and the passenger has NO legal DBC protection from the FAA rules.
Again with the bogus FAA rules.
Can you please cite exactly what rules are you referring to?
Involuntary Denied Boarding Compensation. This guy should have never left the gate area.
I was always told delayed flights can, and will leave on time if they are able so even if its delayed to stay real close to the gate. I had a flight that was delayed 2.5 hours but ultimately left ON TIME because they were able swap planes. This was 30 min. It wouldn't have hurt the passenger to hang in the gate with everyone else and board before the door closed.
Wow, such sycophants, here. In fact, I go completely the other way. Departure times should be 'gate' closing times. What is the function of a posted departure time, if not to serve as the critical time for passengers. We don't need to know when the plane is pulling away from the gate, or when the plane is getting on the runway, or when the pilots say "rotate". None of those other times are pertinent to...
Wow, such sycophants, here. In fact, I go completely the other way. Departure times should be 'gate' closing times. What is the function of a posted departure time, if not to serve as the critical time for passengers. We don't need to know when the plane is pulling away from the gate, or when the plane is getting on the runway, or when the pilots say "rotate". None of those other times are pertinent to customers, anymore than other statics about the flight.
In this case the departure time should have been 6:45am (the time at which boarding stops).
And NO, it is not incumbent upon a passenger to arrive before then. If they arrive by the 'departure' time (as referenced above) then they shall be boarded. And, in fact, airlines should be making EVERY effort to see that ALL passengers who have 'checked-in' get boarded.
This use to be the case. People were more civil and caring once. Not today, selfishness among employees, and the enabling of such behavior by the type of comments seen here, make flying or doing most anything in public a risky venture.
If the airlines were to do that and everyone were to arrive at the exact posted time, no flight would ever leave on time due to the amount of time it takes to board. Keep in mind the airlines have flight slots at the airports that they need to meet or they can be held by air traffic control.
As one who IS a lawyer, permit my view: The airline was negligent. It does not matter if the passenger wants to cut it close. That is their choice, and they arrived before the time the airline said was the last safe time for boarding.
If the airline will not do the right thing, the passenger can sue in small claims court and probably in his home jurisdiction. He has to document the actual damages,...
As one who IS a lawyer, permit my view: The airline was negligent. It does not matter if the passenger wants to cut it close. That is their choice, and they arrived before the time the airline said was the last safe time for boarding.
If the airline will not do the right thing, the passenger can sue in small claims court and probably in his home jurisdiction. He has to document the actual damages, so he needs to prove-up the dollar value of business minus the dollar value of economy class.
In reality, all law suits against airlines must be in federal court. However, most airlines will contest (or settle) a small claims matter rather than seek the far more expensive remedy of removing the case to federal court.
Ben, This c
This could be a topic for you: Involuntary Denied Boarding. I don't think Ive ever seen on your site or several other travel sites I subscribe to and my guess would be that your readers could be enlightened to a greater or lesser degree. And I think the solution you suggested in this example is a good one: He flew economy so should only have to pay an economy fare so...
Ben, This c
This could be a topic for you: Involuntary Denied Boarding. I don't think Ive ever seen on your site or several other travel sites I subscribe to and my guess would be that your readers could be enlightened to a greater or lesser degree. And I think the solution you suggested in this example is a good one: He flew economy so should only have to pay an economy fare so refund the cash difference. And some miles (2500 is enough IMO) for the comfort inconvenience.
If this was a truly isolated instance, perhaps I'd be less sympathetic to the passenger, but here's what happened to my wife and me on our scheduled September 1 flight SFO-DEN-LHR in Polaris class. We knew we had a tight connection at DEN but had booked through the United website (and happen to be Premium Platinum United fliers) so assumed we were OK. Problem started at SFO when we had a gate hold because we...
If this was a truly isolated instance, perhaps I'd be less sympathetic to the passenger, but here's what happened to my wife and me on our scheduled September 1 flight SFO-DEN-LHR in Polaris class. We knew we had a tight connection at DEN but had booked through the United website (and happen to be Premium Platinum United fliers) so assumed we were OK. Problem started at SFO when we had a gate hold because we were waiting for "a few" passengers connecting from HNL, so left the gate 20 minutes late. Then on the taxiway a 30 minute hold because, as the pilot announced, the aircraft had to reweigh because of the luggage added by the "few passengers". But not to worry, we were assured, all connecting flights at DEN -- and there were many, both domestic and international as shown by the show of hands requested by the FAs -- had been notified and would hold. We arrived at the gate in DEN for our LHR connection about minutes after scheduled departure and were told the flight had already departed, so we lost a day in London, a day's hotel cost, and two theater tickets we had prepaid for our first day in London -- for which we were put up in the Marriott at DEN and given some food coupons (which left us $12 short when we ordered two hamburgers and the cheapest bottle of wine from room service), and nothing else. When I checked the DEN-LHR flight on FlightStats I learned the flight had not only pulled away from the gate on time but ten minutes early! Fortunately we were booked on the same flight the next night and while boarding met a lady who had been incoming from Portland the night before and had actually been denied boarding when she arrived at the scheduled departure time. My complaint to United has been met with a shrug so, based upon Ben's advice (above) I today resubmitted my complaint and asked that be escalated -- but I'm not holding my breath, having had similar frustrations with United in the past.
@Arne ... Thanks for good information . Connections always ought to be 3 hours or more , just in case .
Absolutely correct.
My advice for that would've been to just take a nonstop from SFO to LHR. Might've been more expensive but you'd definitely get to your destination.
Anyone noticed that most of passengers who miss their flights usually have to have something to drink?
Even many who responded to this news said they missed or almost missed their flight because they had to get a drink...
May be they should not drink so much and give their livers a rest?
@Tom ... Plenty of people who do not drink miss their flights because they cut it too close . I happen to drink , and I've never missed a flight .
Where in the story does it say that he went back to the club for a drink. Maybe, just maybe, it was crowded at the gate in Newark and the guy wanted a more comfortable spot to wait. It's not like Newark is a very passenger friendly place to begin with. Let's not jump to conclusions.
It's because of this kind of stuff that I stopped flying United a long time ago.
At LHR I was told by BA that there is a technical delay estimated at 3 hours . Pax were told to go to customer service desk for vouchers . We were given vouchers for the food retailers nearby . We leisurely had our food and gradually returned to the gate area after about 2 hours . We boarded and the flight departed with drinks for everyone . Everything good . If , after the...
At LHR I was told by BA that there is a technical delay estimated at 3 hours . Pax were told to go to customer service desk for vouchers . We were given vouchers for the food retailers nearby . We leisurely had our food and gradually returned to the gate area after about 2 hours . We boarded and the flight departed with drinks for everyone . Everything good . If , after the delay , a clueless pax did not return , I suspect the doors would be closed , and the flight would depart without him/her . BA would then take him the next day . Common sense .
Yeah at Delta if a new departure time is published and posted, we do not go earlier unless everyone that was confirmed has boarded. Otherwise we wait until the new posted time.
Days ago I had a similar situation with Delta from JFK. It was the day of the New York rain/flooding and even with leaving extra time to get to JFK, the chaos in the city meant I was still worried about cutting it fine.
So when a text from Delta said the plane was delayed an hour to 7pm I was actually really pleased as I had more time. The text didn’t say estimated -...
Days ago I had a similar situation with Delta from JFK. It was the day of the New York rain/flooding and even with leaving extra time to get to JFK, the chaos in the city meant I was still worried about cutting it fine.
So when a text from Delta said the plane was delayed an hour to 7pm I was actually really pleased as I had more time. The text didn’t say estimated - it seemed pretty definite it wasn’t leaving on time.
But then half an hour later, another text said it was leaving at 6pm again, so cue panic from me. Then another saying it was leaving at 6.30, then another saying 7pm. What with a gate change and the texts not showing the same time as the Delta app I had no real idea when the plane was leaving.
I have never had this yo yoing of departure times all within 30 minutes overseas. Usually a late departure just gets even later.
I went to the gate, that seemed to say it was delayed until 7pm, so I did go off for a drink at the nearest airport bar. But I kept a close eye on the app and when boarding began scooted back to the relatively nearby gate.
It worked out, but the constant changing of times and the fact texts/apps/monitors were out of synch was confusing and frustrating. And no text said “estimated” or “remain at gate”. I would not have assumed you would have to stay at the gate that entire time.
Unfortunately for the customer he should not have waited in the United Club but should have been at the gate for the original boarding time, as the new boarding time was "Estimated" and if the gate agents finished boarding early they would close the gate. When there is only a 30 minute delay I would not chance waiting another 30 minutes in the club. At minimum I would have had the club agent call the...
Unfortunately for the customer he should not have waited in the United Club but should have been at the gate for the original boarding time, as the new boarding time was "Estimated" and if the gate agents finished boarding early they would close the gate. When there is only a 30 minute delay I would not chance waiting another 30 minutes in the club. At minimum I would have had the club agent call the gate to confirm the customer was on the way and keep the gate open.
Where does it state the flight was oversold? Denied Boarding Compensation does not apply here at all. Only when a customer with a confirmed reservation is at the gate without a seat assignment and is unable to be accommodated, after the airline has solicited for volunteers, would DBC be applicable.
I would applaud the gate agent for closing the door. The flight was an estimated delay. The fact they could leave almost on time meant all 200 other passengers managed to get on the plane on time and get to their connections or whatever on time. I guess next time he will make sure he gets there sooner and does not inconvenience 200 other people while he has a drink huh?
so what time did the door actually close?
by his account he came to empty gate - not like the door was shut as he was running to the gate? Plus his seat was given up - adding another 1-2 minutes to the timing for the agent to make decision that they are not waiting for this particular passenger.
Also, some airlines do announce "Passenger XX, please board now, you are delaying the flgiht". Does united do it?
This is 100% the traveler's fault. strolling up to the gate 7 minutes before an "estimated" boarding ending time is absurd. No matter how early or late one arrives to an airport, the very first place to go after security is the boarding gate. Double check with the gate agent when boarding begins and plan accordingly. Going to the lounge and staring at the united app is a symptom of the current mobile phone culture....
This is 100% the traveler's fault. strolling up to the gate 7 minutes before an "estimated" boarding ending time is absurd. No matter how early or late one arrives to an airport, the very first place to go after security is the boarding gate. Double check with the gate agent when boarding begins and plan accordingly. Going to the lounge and staring at the united app is a symptom of the current mobile phone culture.
One of the main reasons of flying in "first class" domestic is to get on the plane first and try to relax with a pre departure plastic cup of cheap wine/beer etc. It's certainly not for the hard product or service.
Zero sympathy.
I couldnt agree more ! talk about arrogant entitlement. Wow. One needs to be AT THE GATE much earlier...breezing off to The Club..clearly that didnt work out well, did it ?
He got to Calgary, on the non-stop which any sane person would have just booked in the first place, and was given 2500 points as well. Case closed.
Exactly, what fool would travel EWR to SFO to YYC. He should be happy he saved half a day and the exhaustion of traveling across the United States.
The flight was originally scheduled at 630 was delayed. Pax should have been at gate the delay was resolved early. No ifs ands or buts.
After reading many comments, post, and some rules it turns out the passenger was in the wrong for this particular case. I will put some of findings below:
- The United boarding process page (https://www.united.com/en/us/fly/travel/airport/airport-process.html#boarding) says "For the U.S. flights, we recommend being at the gate 15 minutes before boarding starts.", which I guess is just a recommendation so passengers are free to ignore it.
However, looking at the contract of carriage, which is the...
After reading many comments, post, and some rules it turns out the passenger was in the wrong for this particular case. I will put some of findings below:
- The United boarding process page (https://www.united.com/en/us/fly/travel/airport/airport-process.html#boarding) says "For the U.S. flights, we recommend being at the gate 15 minutes before boarding starts.", which I guess is just a recommendation so passengers are free to ignore it.
However, looking at the contract of carriage, which is the binding document, we find the following:
- Rule 5.D.1.c says "All Passengers must be present at the loading gate for boarding at least 15 minutes prior to scheduled departure.
NOTE: If the Passenger’s itinerary includes an international destination, the international time limits in D) 2) below apply to all flights in the itinerary."
- Rule 5.D.2.b says "All Passengers must be at the loading gate for boarding at least 30 minutes prior to scheduled departure."
This means that having Calgary as the final destination requires passengers to be at the boarding gate at least minutes prior to departure, so I guess the passenger was in the wrong here?
Seems pretty foolish to wait till the last minute to show up for a delayed flight that could (and you'd hope would) go out earlier than the published time. Better to be at the gate at the estimated "boarding" time for the new departure. Just common sense really.
It doesn't matter if he waited until the last 5 minutes, the door shouldn't have been closed! Only a complete worthless idiot would put the blame on the passenger!
TECHNICALLY, passenger was on an international itinerary and was required to be at the gate 30 minutes prior to departure, the GA paged him to board, he didn't, and the GA gave away his seat.
Add an automatic upgrade on next flight.
An apology with upgrade.
United says estimated. He was obnoxious enough to expect an already late flight to wait for his dear sweet coddled butt to walk casually down from his sky ix to join him. Tough break
A lot of comments here written by unseasoned travelers, UA reps or Tim Dunns.
I've been on a lot of delayed UA flights this year, with delays ranging from 30 minutes to 8 hours. The standard text you receive is "Flight UAXX is delayed because XXX. It now departs at XX. We're sorry for the delay." There is nothing about "estimated" time of departure or duty to hang around next to the gate for hours...
A lot of comments here written by unseasoned travelers, UA reps or Tim Dunns.
I've been on a lot of delayed UA flights this year, with delays ranging from 30 minutes to 8 hours. The standard text you receive is "Flight UAXX is delayed because XXX. It now departs at XX. We're sorry for the delay." There is nothing about "estimated" time of departure or duty to hang around next to the gate for hours in those texts.
Clearly UA at fault here, but since the US doesn't have a EU 261 equivalent, airlines in the US can get away with crap. In Europe, though, one relevant fact would be that the passenger in question got to the destination without delay - so only downgrade comp would be due.
Exactly.
Not quite. Technically, since he was on an international itinerary, he was obligated to be at the gate 30 minutes prior to departure, so he was 8 minutes late, and the GA gave away his seat. (And if there were people on the standby list, perhaps even rightly gave away his seat.)
@ Chris Raehl - You're absolutely incorrect. He was boarding a domestic flight, not an international flight so a 15-minute cut-off applies. Easy to check on the UA website.
I'm shocked by the amount of stuff people make up in the comments here.
Turns out that the UA contract of carriage, which is the binding document, says the following:
- Rule 5.D.1.c says "All Passengers must be present at the loading gate for boarding at least 15 minutes prior to scheduled departure.
NOTE: If the Passenger’s itinerary includes an international destination, the international time limits in D) 2) below apply to all flights in the itinerary."
- Rule 5.D.2.b says "All Passengers must be at the loading...
Turns out that the UA contract of carriage, which is the binding document, says the following:
- Rule 5.D.1.c says "All Passengers must be present at the loading gate for boarding at least 15 minutes prior to scheduled departure.
NOTE: If the Passenger’s itinerary includes an international destination, the international time limits in D) 2) below apply to all flights in the itinerary."
- Rule 5.D.2.b says "All Passengers must be at the loading gate for boarding at least 30 minutes prior to scheduled departure."
This means that having Calgary as the final destination requires passengers to be at the boarding gate at least minutes 30 prior to departure even if this leg is domestic only. I was surprised to find this too.
FACT: U.S. airlines do not treat flights in the Canadian Buffer Zone as "International."
The gate agent knew who was missing and should have made every effort to get that passenger on the plane after UA changed the boarding expectation. The "old UA" would have done that. For those of you worried about others missing their connections, it's Calgary, not Chicago.
Every flight is estimated United policy is local passengers, passengers starting in the city their boarding can be dropped 15 minutes prior to departure it is stated on every boarding pass when boarding ends. So if he showed up at 645 for a 700 departure he is late. Period
I am guessing that everyone so confidently assuming the passenger was drinking too much despite no evidence to that are projecting their own lounge behavior.
Unbelievable of blame the traveler comments for United juggling things around and then not using any kind of common sense to address it. I suspect it's bitter grapes by those negative responders; not sure what crossroad they are from.
Passengers fault .
Delayed posted times are estimates and customers are always advised to remain in the vicinity of the gate area . The airlines will do as much as possible to turn the aircraft around and have it back on track on schedule.
You he passenger arrived late , and his seat was probably assigned to another standby customer ( revenue or non revenue , that’s irrelevant ).
If something ,...
Passengers fault .
Delayed posted times are estimates and customers are always advised to remain in the vicinity of the gate area . The airlines will do as much as possible to turn the aircraft around and have it back on track on schedule.
You he passenger arrived late , and his seat was probably assigned to another standby customer ( revenue or non revenue , that’s irrelevant ).
If something , the club agent gave him the wrong advice, and need retraining .
Hopefully he learned his lesson .
I don't feel any lessons need to be learned here. Sad response by you.
The key is to find out if the plane is at the gate or not. Technically, you can't take off until there is a plane ready for you. Many airplane apps and third party apps can tell you where your plane is. If you see that your plane is "X" minutes/hours away and it lines up with your delay time you can just track the plane to give you an idea of when you should...
The key is to find out if the plane is at the gate or not. Technically, you can't take off until there is a plane ready for you. Many airplane apps and third party apps can tell you where your plane is. If you see that your plane is "X" minutes/hours away and it lines up with your delay time you can just track the plane to give you an idea of when you should get to the gate.
A rule of thumb is, if your plane is at the gate, assume that it's leaving on time and get your butt to the gate at the original boarding time.
My argument is what if the flight delays for much longer.
You really expect a Global Service flying Polaris to sit around in the gate area for 5 hours so the passenger doesn't get off load?
Eskimo, you keep repeating the same irrelevant comment multiple times. No one has answered any of them, possibly because it's so irrelevant. The issue here is one of minutes, not hours. Nor does the DYKWIA guy get a pass just because DYKWIA.
@XPL
Or the reason no one has answered is because there is no good answer.
As irrelevant as you might want to think, why don't you answer the question.
The DYKWIA is the trick question, but you also fall for it. It doesn't matter if it's a DYKWIA or a 10 year old flying for the first time.
The issue here is the reliability of the communicated time.
You can can say minutes...
@XPL
Or the reason no one has answered is because there is no good answer.
As irrelevant as you might want to think, why don't you answer the question.
The DYKWIA is the trick question, but you also fall for it. It doesn't matter if it's a DYKWIA or a 10 year old flying for the first time.
The issue here is the reliability of the communicated time.
You can can say minutes is relevant but not hours.
Then what is the cutoff minute?
30 mins is relevant? How about 31, 32, 33, ....., 300 minutes (aka 5 hours)?
So according to some United folks, the delay was only put it the system at 6:13am and the notification went out at 6:15am...so the pax should have already been at the gate. They held off boarding to finish cleaning plane. So he was late already and if he was at the gate when he should have been he would have heard the announcement. No sympathy there! Ask him to show you the timestamp on that delay text. I bet he won't!
People enjoying drinking at the lounge not realizing thw agent, fas, ground personnel all communicate with each other when they are all working that one flight.
I believe that person had one too many drinks and was just simply denied boarding. FAA mandates that no one is allowed on the AC with any hint of Intoxication. Deny boarding
I would caution you not to assume the traveler was intoxicated. He showed responsibility by checking with airline reps, showed up within the allotted window of time, and found the door closed. Totally airline's fault.
As a 1k member... I've learn that you need to be around your delayed flights. PASSENGERS FAULT. Delayed departures are announce as ESTIMATED times. I seen them go from 2hrs to 20 mins due to their mechanics fixing the issues quicker than expected.
Now, I love hanging out in the lounge but NOT when my flight is delayed. A lesson learned just like your passenger learned.
This is another classic unseasoned traveler mistake...
As a 1k member... I've learn that you need to be around your delayed flights. PASSENGERS FAULT. Delayed departures are announce as ESTIMATED times. I seen them go from 2hrs to 20 mins due to their mechanics fixing the issues quicker than expected.
Now, I love hanging out in the lounge but NOT when my flight is delayed. A lesson learned just like your passenger learned.
This is another classic unseasoned traveler mistake and you're just making it seem like the big bad airlines are out to get you.
@JAMES
Just because you've learn that you need to be around your delayed flights, it becomes the PASSENGERS FAULT.
Classic example of Stockholm syndrome.
I learn that in order to not miss my flight I need to hangout at the gate. But that doesn't make it my fault. That is experience teaching me to suck it up or take another flight but not my fault.
I don't agree with this take Ben. I think it was a delayed flight and they always say be at the gate at the time the original boarding should happen. Either way, it is smart to go as soon as the revised boarding starts to make sure they don't finish early. On a delayed flight UA is looking to make up time, not convenience one late passenger who is in the lounge at the expense...
I don't agree with this take Ben. I think it was a delayed flight and they always say be at the gate at the time the original boarding should happen. Either way, it is smart to go as soon as the revised boarding starts to make sure they don't finish early. On a delayed flight UA is looking to make up time, not convenience one late passenger who is in the lounge at the expense of making up minutes for the entire rest of the plane. If this was an original board time/departure time I'd agree with your take Ben.
exactly.
United did screw up. But also the pax did too. You need to be there at the gate early and not at the bar or in the Admirals Club. I missed a flight as they closed the gate early because it took an hour and half to get through security as TSA in DFW sucks!
As a flyer who has had 1k for over a decade the hard way (as in standard mostly domestic fares to indicate how many fights I have taken) this "frequent" flyer should know that unless the plane is not at the gate, they'll pull any delay less than an hour in as much as possible. I have many times seen how long delays turn into ten minutes. That's why it says est departure as in Estimated...
This might be one of those things where everyone was kind of wrong.
United closed the gate early -- but we all know that delayed flights sometimes get undelayed. The traveler should be able to rely on the updated ETD, but everyone on the plane was probably happy to leave less late than expected. (This could have saved connections on the other end). I understand the traveler wanting to rely on the updated departure...
This might be one of those things where everyone was kind of wrong.
United closed the gate early -- but we all know that delayed flights sometimes get undelayed. The traveler should be able to rely on the updated ETD, but everyone on the plane was probably happy to leave less late than expected. (This could have saved connections on the other end). I understand the traveler wanting to rely on the updated departure time, but I also understand United thinking "well the plane's ready to go and we can reduce a 30 minute delay to 15. Let's do it."
The traveler wasn't in the wrong. BUT we all know that sometimes when you push things to the limit, you get burned. I personally wouldn't ever intentionally get to the gate 10 minutes before departure if I could avoid it.
I think the lesson to the traveler here is that they weren't in the wrong, but they also could have avoided this pretty easily.
Completely agree and based on the compensation United offered, I feel they believe so as well. United was trying to be as close to on-time as possible and sometimes the delays truly un-delay itself. I would much rather an airline un-delay than to force us to wait until their new estimated delayed departure time. Customers should know that and not do everything last minute. Some just want to squeeze every last minute of Club time, but you assume that risk.
He was there 22 minutes before departure, not 10 minutes.
"Everyone else made it on time" is irrelevant. Passengers don't materialize at a gate all at the same time; there is a distribution of arrivals and there will always be a last person to arrive - whether 15min, 20min, 30min, or 60min early.
If the airline is free to close the door at any time, there is always the chance that someone that is 'doing the right thing' can get left behind. If the published...
"Everyone else made it on time" is irrelevant. Passengers don't materialize at a gate all at the same time; there is a distribution of arrivals and there will always be a last person to arrive - whether 15min, 20min, 30min, or 60min early.
If the airline is free to close the door at any time, there is always the chance that someone that is 'doing the right thing' can get left behind. If the published cutoff is 15min and someone comes 25min early just to be safe, what happens to that person if the airline closes the door 26min early? Is that passenger still the entitled idiot the everyone here claims them to be?
Yes, seasoned travelers know not to trust airlines at their exact word and build in a cushion, but that doesn't mean that airlines doing whatever they want all the time is right either. If the cutoff is Xmin they should theoretically honor that, whatever it is. The grey area here is what that cutoff means when there is a delay.
Is this the biggest deal as far as airlines and their customer service go? No- and the traveler learned a lesson to never trust anyone. Frankly, if the traveler's version of the story are correct, the bigger justification for compensation in my opinion is being misinformed due to the gate and lounge not communicating given that they even checked.
It’s an unfortunate situation, and has happened to me in AF in biz (although due to a delayed connecting flight - so they even knew I was going to show up). However, any frequent traveler knows that delayed flights often leave early, and the amount of time in advance they need to arrive at the gate is relative to the original departure time. I would argue, though, that United should be clearer about this in the app, etc.
Sorry but disagree with this author completely. The flyer should have been at the gate ready to go for the original 6:30 flight. The only reason the time got pushed was due to delays....and it literally says so on the board and the new boarding and takeoff times are estimates...which means can be later or earlier!! The original scheduled flight has not changed, just the estimated boarding and takeoff times. This customer decided to hang...
Sorry but disagree with this author completely. The flyer should have been at the gate ready to go for the original 6:30 flight. The only reason the time got pushed was due to delays....and it literally says so on the board and the new boarding and takeoff times are estimates...which means can be later or earlier!! The original scheduled flight has not changed, just the estimated boarding and takeoff times. This customer decided to hang out in the club instead of at the gate and this is 100% his fault!
The flight I am waiting for is currently 4 hours delayed. Should I got to the gate now and sit there for 4 hours?
Which then begs the question, what is the latest time I should be at the gate? If your answer is when boarding starts - I think that's reasonable, but then they need to just get rid of the "must board 15min prior to departure" part entirely. Or just honor it.
this is the average american customer experience in 2023. be happy no violence was involved, and no one went to jail.
I somewhat sympathize for the traveller. It sucks. But as a frequent traveller he should know that things can change and change fast. He gambled with maximizing time in the lounge, instead of going to the gate when boarding started. The app notifies when boarding starts. At the very least, the traveller should have started heading to the gate when that happened.
I think the passenger should have arrived at the gate earlier. Since the flight was delayed, it most certainly want to leave as early as it could. I always hang around the gate just in case this were to happen.
The airline should give him the difference in fare just to keep his business.
I’m on the passenger’s side here. Bottom line: If the gate monitor says that boarding ends at 6:45, a reasonable person can expect that they’ll be able to board at 6:38. The “frequent flyer should know” points really aren’t relevant when making that determination; it’s the same basic reason why I wouldn’t blame someone for getting mugged in an area that the locals know to be dangerous (nor should anyone).
That being said- I personally...
I’m on the passenger’s side here. Bottom line: If the gate monitor says that boarding ends at 6:45, a reasonable person can expect that they’ll be able to board at 6:38. The “frequent flyer should know” points really aren’t relevant when making that determination; it’s the same basic reason why I wouldn’t blame someone for getting mugged in an area that the locals know to be dangerous (nor should anyone).
That being said- I personally wouldn’t have cut it as close as this passenger did. When I’m using the club, I personally try to show up to the gate around the time boarding is scheduled to begin- cutting it closer than that, to me, is an unnecessary risk (although I see it as a pretty small one).
But, that doesn’t matter- in my eyes, United at least owes this passenger his difference in fare on top of the (paltry) 2,500 miles he was given.
So 300 people were there and made the flight while he was eating and drinking in the United lounge?!?! Take some accountability
A non stop flight to CalGARY instead of connecting thru SFO ? Sweet.
Your friend needs to take United to court in Cook County Illinois where HQ is based and file lawsuit there.
When my mom was a gate agent she would close the flight a few minutes early and put me in first class as a non rev or if one of her friends were on standby. That was before computers.
Until recently I wouldn’t have believed this. Our flight from IAH-MEX was 4 hours late and they had a new boarding time listed. Uncharacteristically I got the gate about 20 min early. They had just started boarding. Full 19-20 min BEFORE the posted boarding time.
1K passenger next to me threw a hissy fit when he boarded with group 3 because there was no place for his bag in first.
I've always been told if the flight is delayed slightly (not by multiple hours), always get to the gate by the original boarding time as you never know if the flight will be boarded earlier than expected. Sometimes they go out earlier than the expected new ETD. UA has a 15 min cutoff before departure time where they can unseat "late" passengers. I understand he was there the over 20 min before the new ETD...
I've always been told if the flight is delayed slightly (not by multiple hours), always get to the gate by the original boarding time as you never know if the flight will be boarded earlier than expected. Sometimes they go out earlier than the expected new ETD. UA has a 15 min cutoff before departure time where they can unseat "late" passengers. I understand he was there the over 20 min before the new ETD and this is where it gets tricky because when there are small delays like this, they'll sometimes still board almost on time while waiting for a late Pilot or FO. Late aircraft = different story. If it's just missing staff, the flight can be ready to go once they arrive and do their pre-flight checks. Their goal is always to minimize the delay.
This is an example of the trickle down effect in customer service. US Corporate mentality is to downgrade basic service as far as possible for cost savings and then sell the service you’re no longer getting to customers who are willing to pay. Thus, short staffing gate agents and running behind schedule due to overzealous belt tightening leads to a miserable experience for most passengers standing at the gate. The business customer enjoys his glass...
This is an example of the trickle down effect in customer service. US Corporate mentality is to downgrade basic service as far as possible for cost savings and then sell the service you’re no longer getting to customers who are willing to pay. Thus, short staffing gate agents and running behind schedule due to overzealous belt tightening leads to a miserable experience for most passengers standing at the gate. The business customer enjoys his glass of wine in the United Club and moseys to the gate when his concierge tells him he should go, only to find the door closed and the agent off to the next flight. Congratulations, you paid for the nice furniture and drapery but the building you’re living in is infested with termites.
He shouldn't have had that last one. The United lounge guy called a ahead and told them he was schnookered and to close the door early.
They needed that last one. The person is from Calgary. It’s going to be a long season for the Flames.
Although it seems easy to blame United, I find the flyer also at fault. He should have been at the gate when boarding started; one should assume that any late flight will try and go earlier than expected.
I once witnessed a stewardess leave a flight to go get something to eat, when the Tokyo bound flight was being held at the gate by ATC. The head steward told her not to leave; she did...
Although it seems easy to blame United, I find the flyer also at fault. He should have been at the gate when boarding started; one should assume that any late flight will try and go earlier than expected.
I once witnessed a stewardess leave a flight to go get something to eat, when the Tokyo bound flight was being held at the gate by ATC. The head steward told her not to leave; she did anyway. Sure enough, a few minutes later the pilot came back on saying they were cleared. The head steward had to inform the captain that one of the stewardesses was missing. He asked for them to remove her luggage, they did, and closed the door and left less one of the crew.
So, if they won't hold he door for crew (was not United) then don't expect them to hold for you.
Gate agents are seriously reprimanded when doors are not closed "on time" and flts are delayed...
Closing doors relieves them of responsibility if flt is delayed for any reason.
On time departures are extremely important to airlines, more so than customer service..
Your article should make clear from the start that this specifically was a delayed flight situation. Very simple, if you are on a delay you stay by the gate or risk missing your flight….
Everyone thinks that they are individually important to the airline as a customer. Sad fact is that to an airline you are just one of many people they deal with today. You are only noticed if you are a 2 or more million miler on the frequent flyer list and at that they just know your name. An agent is judged by their supervisor as to when they close the door of a flight. That's the real metric used for agent attaboys.
Ages ago, somebody spread the propaganda and marketing term "Customer is always right" to give customer a false sense of importance.
Sad facts that people forget is, Receiving a Pardon doesn't expunge your crimes.
The issue is everyone shortened the real quote. It is actually "the customer is always right in matters if taste". It NEVER implied no matter what a customer is right
(1) once an airline reschedules a flight, the new departure time becomes the official forecasted departure time for the purposes of boarding cutoff time. If United had wanted to leave earlier , they should have brought the departure time forward. The passenger was not wrong and United broke their own contract of carriage. The fact that so many United employees tried to reach that agent who closed the flight early is somewhat indicative that they...
(1) once an airline reschedules a flight, the new departure time becomes the official forecasted departure time for the purposes of boarding cutoff time. If United had wanted to leave earlier , they should have brought the departure time forward. The passenger was not wrong and United broke their own contract of carriage. The fact that so many United employees tried to reach that agent who closed the flight early is somewhat indicative that they knew that agent was in the wrong
(2) his final destination was in Canada so he may be able to claim compensation under the Canadian Air Passenger Protection Regulations. Those regs aren’t as solid as the European ones but better than any protection offered in the US.
Says ESTIMATED departure time and it is on the customer to be there for the official time, the plane leaves as soon as boarding is finished which jn this case the custo er was not present because he as in the lounge screwing around.
VERY good point, this falls under Canadian law as well!!
It was a flight from EWR to SFO... It doesn't fall under Canadian law at all. Maybe if they did it on his next segment.
This was most likely an international USA>Canada ticket. Assuming the SFO stop was booked as a connection, and not as a stopover, then the itinerary’s final destination (Calgary) is what’s important here. https://rppa-appr.ca/eng/know-your-rights
I get nervous when a plane is delayed in terms of relying on the monitors and/or flight status on the web. I always remember the check-in agents saying when a plane is delayed that you should still hang out at the gate in case the plane is moved up. Granted they should update the montiors, but when have montiors ever been accurate in terms of boarding times?
I personally would always get to the...
I get nervous when a plane is delayed in terms of relying on the monitors and/or flight status on the web. I always remember the check-in agents saying when a plane is delayed that you should still hang out at the gate in case the plane is moved up. Granted they should update the montiors, but when have montiors ever been accurate in terms of boarding times?
I personally would always get to the gate 30 min before. It's not worth risking getting on the flight for a few extra minutes in the lounge.
The airline should still compensate him by refunding the difference in fares. But at the end of the day, he got there quicker, so really not too bad of a situation.
A very similar situation happened to me and my wife except there was never any indication that boarding had begun (we were delayed). We booked in separate tickets. I was offered $100 for the inconvenience and my wife was offered $125. If we weren't near an airport that only has United flights we would be changing airline loyalty.
Um, any seasoned traveler knows that the delay time can be shortened and to keep a wary eye on that. I've had 2 hour delays become 1 hour delays. Also, we're talking about a relatively minor delay, the likes of which can be shorter than advertised. In this case, the flight closed after the original departure time and that's the time that counts. Being a dipstick hanging out in the lounge is no excuse - be at the gate. Frankly, this person deserves nothing.
This is what I came to comment. He would have been notified on the app (or screens in the club) that boarding had started.
The United Club is not good enough to miss a flight over.
While it is true that a passenger has to be at the gate at the specified time before SCHEDULED departure, once an airline changes the departure time and posts it publicly - such as on the gate backdrop or in the app, that becomes the new time that they have to base everything else including customer boarding requirements on.
We all want to minimize delays but airlines do not have the legal right to...
While it is true that a passenger has to be at the gate at the specified time before SCHEDULED departure, once an airline changes the departure time and posts it publicly - such as on the gate backdrop or in the app, that becomes the new time that they have to base everything else including customer boarding requirements on.
We all want to minimize delays but airlines do not have the legal right to post a delayed departure such as at 7 pm and then leave earlier than what they posted and deny customer compensation.
And United along w/ other airlines does have the ability to send boarding notifications to their app. If a customer chooses to ignore them or does not sign up for them, then they are the ones at risk. Voice notifications aren't captured in history or recorded but a revised posted departure is.
What was lost in this discussion is when the customer got to their destination based on the rescheduled nonstop flight. Every country's customer service guidelines provide some time margin in which compensation is not required.
Yet again, we disagree.
you are free to. But legally, when an airline publicly posts a delay, they shift their responsibility to customers by that time.
There is a reason why American has so many creeping delays.
You may not fly UA much, but I do and can assure you that they text everyone when schedules change and - most importantly - when boarding starts. Unstated in the article was the question "what about the text message?" Because UA ALWAYS texts you when boarding starts. ALWAYS.
Basically, this dude was screwing off in the lounge, not paying attention, and missed the flight. When there's a delay, airlines may roll back the...
You may not fly UA much, but I do and can assure you that they text everyone when schedules change and - most importantly - when boarding starts. Unstated in the article was the question "what about the text message?" Because UA ALWAYS texts you when boarding starts. ALWAYS.
Basically, this dude was screwing off in the lounge, not paying attention, and missed the flight. When there's a delay, airlines may roll back the departure time - then push it up if things are moving quicker than expected. We both know that happens all the time.
Stogie for the airline vs. Tim for the pax.
And the winner is the lawyer.
I'm not sure what the argument is. All I said is that provable written communication rules. If UAL did that, then there is no argument.
Whether they changed the departure time w/ that message IS relevant.
Disagree, the new time is a estimate, can be earlier or later....is up to the customer to be there by the scheduled time, not lounging in a club.
I have zero sympathy for someone that plays these ridiculous games of showing up at the last possible minute. You want your seat? Show up and take it. Everyone else was on board and ready to go and this guy was chugging one more down in the club.
Zero sympathy.
Yep ... the club is not the gate , and the plane is at the gate , duh .
Well, he did show up to take it, with plenty of time. The boarding door may not be closed more than 15 minutes prior to departure, unless all confirmed passengers are aboard. This is a straightforward rule.
But he was on time you idiot
You don’t mention the rebooking was in economy until after this sentence:
“The way I view it, there are two matters at play here — the initial denied boarding, and then the downgrade.”
This is the first the reader is aware of the downgrade despite the rebooked routing being written about earlier.
For years and years every time a flight experiences delay, airline will try to minimize the delay and get the flight out as close to on time as possible. Showing up a few minutes before the "updated" close of boarding is just wrong. United did nothing wrong. Got everybody else to their destination and connections with minimal delay.
Ok, yes. United screwed up. But frankly I always get to the gate by the start of boarding, not a few minutes before the door closes. Never had a problem.
Gosh, I hope he was able to finish his mimosa the poor thing.
His problem was he ordered a second .
One thing I know is be at the boarding gate at or close to boarding time. You may not like it but this is the reality if you don't want to be in for a shock. Since this flight was delayed if boarding ends early and you're not there that flight is going out without you because the airline wants to make up for any lost time.
Exactly so ... or I will be upgraded to your seat . ( he-he ) .
I was always under the impression that you needed to be in the gate area at the original scheduled time in case they are able to depart closer to schedule. Obviously if equipment or possibly crew are missing might wander a little further.
I think any frequent traveler knows that if a flight is delayed, as soon as the app or the board tells you boarding, you get your butt to the gate if you're not already there. Forget what the lounge dragons or anyone else tells you.
That said, on what was probably not a full flight considering the time of day and speed of boarding, I am surprised the gate didn't call up the club...
I think any frequent traveler knows that if a flight is delayed, as soon as the app or the board tells you boarding, you get your butt to the gate if you're not already there. Forget what the lounge dragons or anyone else tells you.
That said, on what was probably not a full flight considering the time of day and speed of boarding, I am surprised the gate didn't call up the club to see if their missing J pax was there.
As for the downgrade, hell, I'd take the direct flight even in Y any day over connecting in SFO and backtracking. Lesson learned, prob should be 25k miles not 2500 as a gesture of goodwill.
@Santos ... good name for the 'lounge dragons' . In my case , I usually 'drag' myself off the plane at the end .
Myself , I have only ever been at the gate , enjoying my humorous talk with the airline employees . This has resulted in a few upgrades , at no cost to myself . This may have happened with the pax who received his seat , when he did not show . Bottom line is he did not show , and I enjoyed my upgraded flight .
Curious about the following scenario:
Had the passenger left the United Club earlier, despite the announced delay ("just to be on the safe side") and then boarded the flight at the original time (earlier than the announced delay), would said traveler been mad because he was "robbed" of additional time in the United Club?
He just did what they told him to do...
This is why I always hang around the gate, and board as soon as my group gets called. Not much sympathy.
SFO is known for its ATC flow delays. Many gate agents that work these flights over the years have said… don’t leave the gate area as we might get a release and leave - there will be no announcements in the UC for ATC delays. That being said… somewhere, somebody made a decision to post a time and by doing so… establishes a commitment to the customer that we will adhere to this new time…...
SFO is known for its ATC flow delays. Many gate agents that work these flights over the years have said… don’t leave the gate area as we might get a release and leave - there will be no announcements in the UC for ATC delays. That being said… somewhere, somebody made a decision to post a time and by doing so… establishes a commitment to the customer that we will adhere to this new time…
I had an early morning flight out of IAH that had posted a delayed boarding time - not ATC - then rescinded the boarding time back to the original on time departure. Funnily… UA did not tell its crews (FO & FA) that the time had been reset to the original time - the crew was local and they all enjoyed the extra sleep. The gate agents working the OnTime flight had no idea that the flight time had been delayed…then reset… and at boarding time wondered where was the crew.
Back to the 2010 merger, you could see how different the operations were and that culture of rescinding posted delayed departure times came from one side and became the “new norm”
Own it! It’s 7am then adjust all the metrics to that new departure time! BUT…. We are also using SFO in this story… anyone that has flown into this city knows, 7 more minutes in the UC could mean…. Missing your flight!
They have no commitment to the posted time, they have legalize in the ticket stating you are required to be at the gate at the SCHEDULED time...the updates ALL say estimated and if the customer had been at the gate at that time he would also have heard the announcement not to leave the gate as they would begin boarding whenever they were ready....estimates are not legally binding in this case. You can see on...
They have no commitment to the posted time, they have legalize in the ticket stating you are required to be at the gate at the SCHEDULED time...the updates ALL say estimated and if the customer had been at the gate at that time he would also have heard the announcement not to leave the gate as they would begin boarding whenever they were ready....estimates are not legally binding in this case. You can see on the picture it CLEARLY says it is an estimate so not legally binding change od departure time...as someone who flies all the time he should know better.
I absolutely understand the desire to minimize "down" time when traveling frequently. However, I also think this is an important lesson about the impact of delays. Was it really worth the risk of missing the flight for an extra 30 minutes in the club? The best place to be for updated info in the event of a delayed flight is AT THE GATE. A frequent traveler has surely experienced the situation where a flight is...
I absolutely understand the desire to minimize "down" time when traveling frequently. However, I also think this is an important lesson about the impact of delays. Was it really worth the risk of missing the flight for an extra 30 minutes in the club? The best place to be for updated info in the event of a delayed flight is AT THE GATE. A frequent traveler has surely experienced the situation where a flight is delayed but boards "early" so everything is ready in case repairs or whatever are finished sooner than expected.
As a counterpoint, I've also experienced flights that were progressively delayed one hour at a time, until an eventual delay of 4 or more hours. I had a lot of work to do and it would have been a lot easier to do it at a table, as there was insufficient seating at the gate. I monitored the app for communication from the airline and followed prompts there.
This traveler was at most 7...
As a counterpoint, I've also experienced flights that were progressively delayed one hour at a time, until an eventual delay of 4 or more hours. I had a lot of work to do and it would have been a lot easier to do it at a table, as there was insufficient seating at the gate. I monitored the app for communication from the airline and followed prompts there.
This traveler was at most 7 minutes from the gate, and the airline did not move the departure time back up. They didn't follow process. They may have made the gamble and accepted that one traveler would be inconvenienced, but they didn't follow process for that and thus should accept the cost of compensation.
Something similar happened to me on an Alaska Airlines flight 9mos ago. I wish I was in the frame of mind to take pictures and screenshots cuz I got nada, not even a recognition of an error (and I'm a 75k traveler with them; only 100k traveler is higher in their program).
I heard years ago that each segment (loading, door closing, leaving the gate) of the flight is how the airline employees get...
Something similar happened to me on an Alaska Airlines flight 9mos ago. I wish I was in the frame of mind to take pictures and screenshots cuz I got nada, not even a recognition of an error (and I'm a 75k traveler with them; only 100k traveler is higher in their program).
I heard years ago that each segment (loading, door closing, leaving the gate) of the flight is how the airline employees get bonuses (not sure if that is still true) but customer service & satisfaction on each segment should then be part of the bonus too
So this is interesting because while I want to side with the passenger there is something that was overlooked here completely: in the screenshot provided, the boarding end time says estimated boarding end time. For a delayed flight, and I have been told by several United Gate agents this, that the new time of departure of a delayed flight is what the airline believes it will be and for any delayed flights less than 45...
So this is interesting because while I want to side with the passenger there is something that was overlooked here completely: in the screenshot provided, the boarding end time says estimated boarding end time. For a delayed flight, and I have been told by several United Gate agents this, that the new time of departure of a delayed flight is what the airline believes it will be and for any delayed flights less than 45 minutes to be at the gate by the original time of departure. With Newark always having congestion, United wants to operate as close as possible to original timeline.
With that being said, I do believe that the traveler should get compensated for the down grade.
I don't fly American Airlines, I don't buy the expensive seats, I don't go to clubs at the airport and I am always at the gate the required number of minutes before the original gate closing time. It seems like privilege has it's problems. This customer cut the timing way too close and got burned but American Airlines made out. They put another person in the seat and captured that revenue plus they undoubtedly made...
I don't fly American Airlines, I don't buy the expensive seats, I don't go to clubs at the airport and I am always at the gate the required number of minutes before the original gate closing time. It seems like privilege has it's problems. This customer cut the timing way too close and got burned but American Airlines made out. They put another person in the seat and captured that revenue plus they undoubtedly made out flying the customer in economy on Air Canada. The miles offered is an insult and it is on purpose. I hope that this doesn't become the industry model as another way to stick it to the customer.
What does American have to do in this?
Believe it or not, people often confuse UA and AA. No idea why.
United is totally in the wrong here. But united usually doesn’t really care about the customer experience. They just care about profits.
This is the airline that beat up Dr. Dao, reneged on lifetime club membership, and bribed state officials.
United did not beat up Dr Dao, a regional did and that yahoo deserved it. As for this, United states to be available at the original time at the gate as delays can be cut. Happens to me all the time, granted as a Global Services I fly UA more than average but delays get "fixed" fairly often.
Yeah, trying to minimize a delay - what a horrible airline. Instead, UA should have an entire flight full of pax sit at the gate for an extra 20 minutes what a spoiled shiitebag finishes his mimosa. Yeah, United is so awful. Frankly, i dont think the late passenger even deserved a rebooking.
BTW, blame the local yokel cops for the Dr. Dao thing. It's not like the FAs took turns beating him up.
Or you can defend UA in Dr.Dao's case in your own words?
Yeah, trying to minimize a delay - what a horrible airline. Instead, UA should have an entire flight full of pax sit at the gate for an extra 20 minutes what (sic) a spoiled Dr. Dao politely leave the plane. Yeah, United is so awful. Frankly, i dont think Dr. Dao even deserved a less beating.
Just because the FAs didn't took turn...
Or you can defend UA in Dr.Dao's case in your own words?
Yeah, trying to minimize a delay - what a horrible airline. Instead, UA should have an entire flight full of pax sit at the gate for an extra 20 minutes what (sic) a spoiled Dr. Dao politely leave the plane. Yeah, United is so awful. Frankly, i dont think Dr. Dao even deserved a less beating.
Just because the FAs didn't took turn beating him up doesn't mean FAs didn't play the role of Judge and Jury.
You sir, are at risk going on a power trip. Be careful.
Except no United or UAX employee laid a finger on Dr. Dao. He was forcefully removed from his seat by Chicago Airport "Police" after they gave him several direct orders to deplane the aircraft. United didn't beat up anyone but don't let the facts get in the way of your story...
We find this VERY interesting as we, too, were affected by this same poorly managed airline re Houston to Austin (flight originated in Nashville, TN).
I am not sure why you are going out of your way to defend this reader…
As a frequent flyer you know very well that any delay can be adjusted earlier or later.
The text that UA sends “delayed x…It is now scheduled to depart” is the same for any delay including weather, maintenance etc.
In addition, UA would still send texts upon initiating of boarding. You seem to have left that info...
I am not sure why you are going out of your way to defend this reader…
As a frequent flyer you know very well that any delay can be adjusted earlier or later.
The text that UA sends “delayed x…It is now scheduled to depart” is the same for any delay including weather, maintenance etc.
In addition, UA would still send texts upon initiating of boarding. You seem to have left that info out. Did the reader ignore those texts? If the door closed prior to 6:38, then when did he receive that text?
Because you never know when you end up on the wrong end of the airplane door.
Imagine a random chum named Pete trying to fly across the country to the last moments of a dying family member. Pete got last minute ticket, rushed to the airport, made it to the gate 5 mins before they should close.
Gate close early, Pete gets on next flight, RIP by the time next flight lands but would have said proper good bye on the original flight.
You’d make a good writer for Hallmark movies. Too bad in real life none of that happened. Go back to your igloo.
Poor little Pete from the Hallmark movie that didn't get to say goodbye to his children.
No miracles for naughty Pete the Grinch.
That's the good thing about being in Europe. Refused boarding? not only is the airline forced to rebook you but you also get a legally defined financial compensation. plain simple.
Which he got...a nonstop flights and 2500 miles. UA will get him the cost difference if he contacts them.
well in Europe, he would have got his non stop flight, 600 euros given the distance to SFO and whatever miles the airline would like to give him.
I usually delete the notifications but if I recall, when there is a delay, it will say to still be at the gate at the original time because they may be able to reduce the delay. This is usually more problematic when there is a 4+hr delay and your are still at home.
Not sure if they still have this wording.
I usually show to around the time boarding begins since things can...
I usually delete the notifications but if I recall, when there is a delay, it will say to still be at the gate at the original time because they may be able to reduce the delay. This is usually more problematic when there is a 4+hr delay and your are still at home.
Not sure if they still have this wording.
I usually show to around the time boarding begins since things can become "fluid" at that time. I agree the passenger technically did nothing wrong but he didn't do anything to help himself either.
It's like driving, you can drive defensively to try to avoid accidents or you can ignore that and get into more accidents. You might not be at fault but it is still a hassle.
Situations occur were scheduled flights are altered all the time. These situations are way beyond the control of the gate agents , even though they are forced to be the bearers of bad news and have to incur the wrath of the passengers. Dispatch is responsible. Dispatch is an invisible entity unknown and untouched by the public. Many are the reasons why this occurs. Mechanical and scheduling being the 2 largest reasons . It's not the gate agent's fault.
I agree it is never the gate agents fault, but how is dispatch responsible for scheduling or mechanical delays?? They don't schedule the flights or fix the planes.
Getting there 7 minutes before the "estimated" (key word there) gate closure closes is kind of insane imo. While the situation sucks, I have been reminded by airlines and airports to get to the gate early, as it's possible for the plane to depart 10 minutes early. Where this particular instance sucks is that the app was not updated, and the club employee thought they were good to go. Shitty situation, but also a really stupid conscious decision
Wouldn't be the first time that United has screwed over passengers during second leg of a trip scheduled with them. I'd say he's a lucky guy that United got him on another flight that arrived even earlier to his destination than his original flight. At least he was stranded at the halfway point then denied assistance by United. Imagine being a disabled passenger flying with mobility equipment and being stranded by United..He sounds extremely entitled....
Wouldn't be the first time that United has screwed over passengers during second leg of a trip scheduled with them. I'd say he's a lucky guy that United got him on another flight that arrived even earlier to his destination than his original flight. At least he was stranded at the halfway point then denied assistance by United. Imagine being a disabled passenger flying with mobility equipment and being stranded by United..He sounds extremely entitled. I'd love to have the CEO'S email
If he arrived at 6:38 and found the gate closed, turn went to a different counter where they called to ask if he could board them made it back to the United club in 7 minutes I'll eat my hat.
Stop whining!!
Apparently others showed up on time and got on board.
They even gave your seat away because you hung around the lounge till the last minute like a spoiled child.
You snooze, you loose!!
Are people really as dumb as to think the above is an acceptable point of view?
It is the correct point of view.
Exit row is correct.
It's the only appropriate point of view. Your alternative "mmmm yes, I'm so much smarter than all 215 other passengers, mmmmyes, *I'll* just sit here until 5 minutes prior to gate closing" point of view is the sort a cognitively disabled person would have. The complaining party in this case is deeply, deeply stupid yet somehow believes he's the smartest guy on any given flight. It's simultaneously hilarious and very sad to see.
Just because you have much better things to do than sitting at the gate doesn't make you a spoiled child.
You snooze, you loose doesn't apply here because the person was there on time, but on a disputed time.
It's like you can't say your late for work, or school, on a holiday. That's a dumb you snooze, you loose.
Door will close at 20 minutes and all boarding ends and all pax not on plane will be u seated. They can see on camera when u arrived at gate to determine who did wrong.how did you find your seat was given away, an employee had to bring up in gate profram to see.
Where do you get the CEO's email from?
ceoemail.com
Ok. It was a 30-minute delay. He could had stayed in the gate are.
But what if it was a 3-hour delay? Would you expect that someone who has the privilege to be at a lounge to just stand on the gate for this long just in case that the flight is able to finish boarding sooner?
If no, what would be your “legal” threshold? 30min? 45min?
Well, what if we just stick to...
Ok. It was a 30-minute delay. He could had stayed in the gate are.
But what if it was a 3-hour delay? Would you expect that someone who has the privilege to be at a lounge to just stand on the gate for this long just in case that the flight is able to finish boarding sooner?
If no, what would be your “legal” threshold? 30min? 45min?
Well, what if we just stick to the things that are already in place - traveller must present at gate at least 15 minutes prior to estimated departing time - not the original scheduled one, but actually the updated one.
Passenger 100% at fault, decided not to go to the gate when the boarding started. Obviously boarding for a delayed flight will be as rushed as possible to get the plane out even with just a few minutes' less delay.
The compensation for the passenger? The lesson learned so they don't do it again.
Except its not, at all.
If the airline gives times, youd expect those times to be correct.
And yet everyone else managed to make it on the flight. Gee, it must have been a planeload of geniuses to outsmart United's nasty tricks, right? Because it surely wasn't the laziness of the other guy
@stogieguy7
Just because you have nothing better to do than sitting at the gate doesn't make you know something better.
Keep smoking whatever your stuff, by now you probably think Forrest Gump is really a genius.
Does United not notify passengers via the app or text when actual boarding begins? Also, are announcements not made in the club?
I’ve seen a lot of situations where flights are delayed, then boarding starts earlier than expected. This issue must be relatively common.
Most lounges I know don’t usually make announcements unless a severe delay (30 minutes is not what I’d call severe).
Had I been the OP here, when asking the representative in the Club about boarding times, I’d have also checked boarding status (which they can look up easily enough). If it has started I would go. If not I would wait.
I can see both sides, I'm at the gate 30 minutes before departure for delayed flights. I almost missed a flight doing what your reader did. Fifteen extra minutes in a United club isn't worth it.
But I do think United is at fault for two reasons. First, they provided inaccurate data on their displays, maybe the crew didn't update their system with the new departure time. Second, they should have communicated he needed...
I can see both sides, I'm at the gate 30 minutes before departure for delayed flights. I almost missed a flight doing what your reader did. Fifteen extra minutes in a United club isn't worth it.
But I do think United is at fault for two reasons. First, they provided inaccurate data on their displays, maybe the crew didn't update their system with the new departure time. Second, they should have communicated he needed to go to the gate during final boarding.
He probably won't get much if any compensation but might as well send a few emails and hope for the best.
"(on a paid cash fare)"
Was it Endre?
Nope, if it was Endre it would have been PAID FIRST CLASS.
In this case, Polaris is as close to PAID FIRST CLASS as it gets.
From those responding, the most experienced travellers understand the concept of staying by the gate.
There is a lot of ambiguity in the interpretation of what is stated by United in the display board and the text messages/mobile app. Boarding will be “finished”15 mins prior to the “Estimated” departure time create a lot of confusion and also empowers the airline to not follow what they have stated.
Middle East and Asian airlines are precise with their wordings on the departure times and gate closing times.
Emirates clearly states in the...
There is a lot of ambiguity in the interpretation of what is stated by United in the display board and the text messages/mobile app. Boarding will be “finished”15 mins prior to the “Estimated” departure time create a lot of confusion and also empowers the airline to not follow what they have stated.
Middle East and Asian airlines are precise with their wordings on the departure times and gate closing times.
Emirates clearly states in the Boarding Pass and airport display monitors that the Boarding Gate will close 20 mins prior to departure time. If there is delay then they do follow 20 mins boarding gate closure with respect to the new departure time.
Even a LCC like Indigo clearly states boarding gates close 25 mins prior to departure times.
I fly often with the above airlines and I have always reached the boarding gate only 2-3 mins before they close. As I want to maximise my time at the lounge and also when you reach the gate last there is a possibility of an upgrade :)
When an airline states boarding will be “finished” 15 mins prior to schedule departure they can finish it even 20 mins before if the flight loads are light.
Hence I feel the term “finish” should be replaced by boarding gate “closes”!
But again such things wont change in the US so easily as the airlines there provide a lot of information to their pax via the airport display monitors mobile app text messages and lounge agents that they expect pax to also turn up as soon as boarding starts rather than come at the time of finishing.
No Asian airline will inform their pax that the flight is delayed as it’s being cleaned!! Or display the stand by pax names who have been cleared for an upgrade on the display monitors at the gate.
On the one hand, one major area for improvement at United is estimated boarding times. It’s an area in which they fail on almost every flight, especially international departures. It’s not uncommon to arrive at the gate and find the crew haven’t even left the crew room, and boarding for another 30 minutes.
On the other hand, this traveler was no rookie and knows the ropes. The first Transcon departure out of EWR often...
On the one hand, one major area for improvement at United is estimated boarding times. It’s an area in which they fail on almost every flight, especially international departures. It’s not uncommon to arrive at the gate and find the crew haven’t even left the crew room, and boarding for another 30 minutes.
On the other hand, this traveler was no rookie and knows the ropes. The first Transcon departure out of EWR often leaves early due to lighter loads and quick boarding, and getting the first sector out early sets the entire operation in good shape for the day. Any traveler expecting the entire aircraft to wait for them when they don’t have an inbound connection is suffering from some serious DYKWIA complex. Flying is a team game.
United handled this fine and shouldn’t be setting a precedent that this behavior is acceptable.
As frustrating as it is, and as wrong as the airlines are on this, it’s not worth the time. The traveler is right but they should move on, perhaps request cash for the difference in fare.
I have been in the same situation with AA leaving the gate early. It’s a clear cut case and I similarly had a screenshot of the gate screen, with a timestamp. AA admitted no fault and pushed back...
As frustrating as it is, and as wrong as the airlines are on this, it’s not worth the time. The traveler is right but they should move on, perhaps request cash for the difference in fare.
I have been in the same situation with AA leaving the gate early. It’s a clear cut case and I similarly had a screenshot of the gate screen, with a timestamp. AA admitted no fault and pushed back hard. What am I to do at that point? I don’t have the time or money to take them to court or something for it.
I am not a lawyer but I also have to agree with the others here that the reader might not end up with any compensation. United's Contract of Carriage pretty much unbinds themselves from any statement of operating times whether that's by display screen or text message.
"UA will promptly provide Passengers the best available information regarding known delays, cancellations, misconnections and diversions, but UA is not liable for any misstatements or other errors or...
I am not a lawyer but I also have to agree with the others here that the reader might not end up with any compensation. United's Contract of Carriage pretty much unbinds themselves from any statement of operating times whether that's by display screen or text message.
"UA will promptly provide Passengers the best available information regarding known delays, cancellations, misconnections and diversions, but UA is not liable for any misstatements or other errors or omissions in connection with providing such information. No employee, agent or representative of UA can bind UA legally by reason of any statements relating to flight status or other information. Except to the extent provided in this Rule, UA shall not be liable for failing to operate any flight according to schedule, or for any change in flight schedule, with or without notice to the passenger." (Rule 24.A.3)
FWIW whenever JetBlue sends me an email informing a delay they say "We're working hard to reduce this delay so we ask that you still arrive at the airport for your original departure time." So the implication is that they can leave any time after the originally scheduled time regardless of what they say the flight is currently delayed til.
Just about every airline has that in its contract of carriage, and you are right about the JetBlue notice... many airlines put that in their delay notes as well. Earlier this year, one of my family had an AA flight out of SFO for the east coast and they woke up to a 4 hour delay, so figured they would go to the airport later since no bags to check. I said no... you best...
Just about every airline has that in its contract of carriage, and you are right about the JetBlue notice... many airlines put that in their delay notes as well. Earlier this year, one of my family had an AA flight out of SFO for the east coast and they woke up to a 4 hour delay, so figured they would go to the airport later since no bags to check. I said no... you best go ahead to the airport. On their way there, the flight delay reduced to about 90 minutes, and as they arrived at the airport, just a 15 minute delay.
Agreed this passenger in the original post should know better and decided to cut it to the very last moment. At best, they are owed downgrade compensation, but quite honestly per the Contract of Carriage it's their own fault and that comp would even be a courtesy.
@putout
Definitely you're not a lawyer. Contract of Carriage is not the law.
That's why we have consumer protection laws from unfair contracts.
Lawyers feed on disputes like this. Both sides after paying so much in legal fees, end up in a settlement.
Everyone except the lawyer loses.
I dunno. Not like this was a tight connection and they closed early. The person was hanging in the lounge until the last few minutes. Even more so on a delayed flight that would of course want to push back asap if they could. Crummy for sure, but I would personally never leave that short a window on a flight with a delay. For what? To sit in an overcrowded meh lounge or an extra...
I dunno. Not like this was a tight connection and they closed early. The person was hanging in the lounge until the last few minutes. Even more so on a delayed flight that would of course want to push back asap if they could. Crummy for sure, but I would personally never leave that short a window on a flight with a delay. For what? To sit in an overcrowded meh lounge or an extra ten minutes? This is less about your reader being short changed and more about him learning a lesson for next time to not cut things down to a couple of minutes cutoff when there was no reason to do so.
What was the cause of the delay?
Was everyone else onboard or were there a group of people that missed the flight. If everyone is on board, why should the carrier delay the flight further than necessary to accommodate 1 missing passenger?
Typically carriers advise passengers to remain in the gate area incase the flight is able to leave earlier than expected.
Also carriers also send texts advising when flights board. Why...
What was the cause of the delay?
Was everyone else onboard or were there a group of people that missed the flight. If everyone is on board, why should the carrier delay the flight further than necessary to accommodate 1 missing passenger?
Typically carriers advise passengers to remain in the gate area incase the flight is able to leave earlier than expected.
Also carriers also send texts advising when flights board. Why wait to the last minute to board? Sounds like they don't travel much.
If he flew coach on the next flight he is due any fare difference.
Most people know what “estimated” is. The passenger cut it too close. I’d never show up at a gate at 6:38 for an “estimated” boarding completion of 6:45. Estimated means it could happen sooner than 6:45, which is, in fact, what happened.
Many travelers I know arrive T-21 min. 6 min early is not too close ... on a flight NOT delayed. For US AIRLINES ... Air France almost pulled the same on me (without the delay)
so an anonymous person claiming to be a long time reader makes random accusations against an airline that we as the reader have no way of verifying the authenticity of his or her claims and you post it as fact to air your usual grievances against UA?
@ HenryLAX -- The reader asked me not to name them here, but I know who he is, and we have corresponded in the past, and he has proven very reliable. I've written similar stories about just every airline and hotel group, so I'm not sure what your issue is?
I'm guessing flight vouchers?
Isn't it funny how all the other passengers who received the same text and looked at the same display screen managed to board the plane in time.
I admit in my days as an airline manager I used that line. "Nobody said the gate changed! Nobody said the flight was now leaving!" Well, 215 other people, most of whom don't fly 10% of how often you do, somehow knew all this and are on the plane....
@NedsKid
Just because you have nothing better to do than sitting at the gate doesn't make you know something better.
Thanks for not being an airline manager anymore. You represent the ones I hate dealing with, the power trip type.
If I were United I’d credit the customer the fare for Polaris. Award 20-25k in miles and say the ride in coach was on us for your inconvenience of having to fly economy on AC. It’s the cost of doing business. I think this is the only way I’d feel better for something going wrong and it not being my fault. I understand mistakes happen but that’s a huge chunk of money to swallow for...
If I were United I’d credit the customer the fare for Polaris. Award 20-25k in miles and say the ride in coach was on us for your inconvenience of having to fly economy on AC. It’s the cost of doing business. I think this is the only way I’d feel better for something going wrong and it not being my fault. I understand mistakes happen but that’s a huge chunk of money to swallow for a middle seat. I hope he escalates this to the CEO’s assistant, I would. GL anonymous Polaris flyer!
United only cares about people with global services status. I guarantee if this person was global services, they would have waited for him.
Not true. Priority or otherwise, if the tower doesn't provide extra time to hold the gate open, then the flight will close at it's due time. The spoiled customer with flight status will simply be rebooked. No one's keeping a scheduled flight open for status members.
AA does this all the time. They should’ve been at the gate. It’s simply not worth the risk. I feel for them but I won’t mess around with small delays.
@Jay - prior to the pandemic, delayed evening flights out of PHL often left earlier than expected given the earlier estimates. I never trusted the estimates and I stayed close the gate in these circumstances.
There's only one person. You don't have to say "them".
Great post Lucky! This happens often when the flights are delayed lets says 2 hours, but then the flight could be pull back and depart 1 hour later as well. Can you do a follow up on what compensation he receives? Thank you
You failed to mention that Flight screen shows:
Est. Departure: 7:00 (estimated).
Estimated means could be later - but also could be earlier.
Most gates agents will announce stay by the gate.
My view the flyer is at fault here - 30 minute estimated late departure is too close to not go to the gate on time. At least assess at the gate - not the United Club - all the club...
You failed to mention that Flight screen shows:
Est. Departure: 7:00 (estimated).
Estimated means could be later - but also could be earlier.
Most gates agents will announce stay by the gate.
My view the flyer is at fault here - 30 minute estimated late departure is too close to not go to the gate on time. At least assess at the gate - not the United Club - all the club sees is in the computer - not really is happening. United Club agent should have called the gate. AA agents do that for me.
@ Randy -- For what it's worth, the text message that the traveler received stated the following:
"Flight UA2032 from New York/Newark to San Francisco is delayed because we needed to finish cleaning your plane. It now departs at 7:00am on September 29."
It doesn't say "it might depart" or "it's estimated to depart," but it says "it now departs at 7:00am." That seems pretty clear to me.
I am all for handing the airlines a lesson when a lesson is due. But I would say that you are clearly more amateur than I imagined to actually think that showing up a few minutes before closing on a delayed flight (when you could have been there easily but were lingering in the lounge instead) is justifiable for a complaint. It's bad luck for sure, but I imagine anyone with any sense does not,...
I am all for handing the airlines a lesson when a lesson is due. But I would say that you are clearly more amateur than I imagined to actually think that showing up a few minutes before closing on a delayed flight (when you could have been there easily but were lingering in the lounge instead) is justifiable for a complaint. It's bad luck for sure, but I imagine anyone with any sense does not, when avoidable, do just that. He could have very easily been there at the start of boarding when UA sends the text that boarding has started. As you say so often, 'Wow."
"Est." is on the screen. You show a picture of that screen in the posting. The automated texts and info you see on the app and what the United Club are all based on what the est. time is.
My experience is over many years - gate agents will announce at the gate stay by the gate as the time can move up. I had this recently on a UA flight from LAX-IAD - delayed...
"Est." is on the screen. You show a picture of that screen in the posting. The automated texts and info you see on the app and what the United Club are all based on what the est. time is.
My experience is over many years - gate agents will announce at the gate stay by the gate as the time can move up. I had this recently on a UA flight from LAX-IAD - delayed in system, and kept gettting delayed in system because of needed security checks after flight came form MEL - but in the end if boarded sooner.
Also United starts boarding about 45 minutes early on a wide body - so person should have been at the gate at 6:15 for 7 at a minimum. But I would be at the gate likley no later than 6.
Right below that sentence is always:
"We're sorry for the delay and are working to get you on your way."
That alone tells me they are trying to correct the problem and leave asap.
I am for the passenger in this case. However, Ben writes " So while he arrived earlier than initially planned, he traveled significantly less comfortably.". I disagree. An Air Canada non-stop to Calgary is not significantly less comfortable in my opinion. Economy class on a transatlantic red eye would be but not 3/4 of the way across North America in economy class during the day. True, there is snob appeal in domestic first class but not really much better.
@ derek -- The EWR-SFO flight was operated by a 777 with Polaris seats, so I would say that's significantly more comfortable than economy.
The 777-200 is a 3-class aircraft. Polaris, Premium and Economy. I think the pax was pushing it with only a few minutes to spare. Nevertheless, the airline should compensate for the difference between what he purchased and what he “received”.
That's certainly more impressive. However, on a daytime flight, I am usually working or thinking and the extra space doesn't matter to me. On a red eye and a flight more than 6 hours, a Polaris seat would definitely be more comfortable.
Here is where I consider the passenger to be a loyal slave. Air Canada's A320 non-stop in business class, booked ahead of time, is better than EWR-SFO-YYC.
this pax was an idiot. any intelligent person would know to hang around the gate in a situation like this. this is 100% on the pax. I would also note the nonstop got in at 105pm. Why would some idiot fly via SFO when there is a nonstop? to save a tiny amount of $? that is stupid. bad post
Wrong.
Wrong.
Wrong.
You are wrong about literally everything.
Never comment again.
@ mark -- You're more than welcome to express your opinion here, but can't you do so politely? Suggesting that someone is unintelligent because they have a different perspective than you is unnecessary.
@Ben, kudos for not wanting the comments section to degrade into the wild and woolly, but -- respectfully -- mark is neither the worst offender nor a repeat offender. Compare what Eskimo is calling people he disagrees with here.
Thanks for naming names.
By the way
My argument is what if the flight delays for much longer.
You really expect a Global Service flying Polaris to sit around in the gate area for 5 hours so the passenger doesn't get off load?
Dear @XPL, try answer the question before it gets wild and woolly.
Deep breath, now slowly exhale
Late arrival for my connection, but connecting flight hadn't left. Denied boarding becayse gate had just been closed. Of course, they gave away my 3 business seats. The irony is that this connecting flight was on the runaway for hours and had to deplane. So, after approximately 4 hours, I got on it but the coach class. This was with American. After I contacted them, they gave some measly 5,000 miles. I just didn't follow up to fight more.
Aside from the downgrade, what was the difference in the arrival times? Was this a mileage run? Who would take this circuitous routing over the nonstop?
@ Semperfix -- Hey, us miles & points people do weird things sometimes! Maybe he just enjoys flying, is working toward million miler status with United, etc. I've certainly done wilder things. I believe the nonstop actually arrived a bit earlier, since flying via SFO is quite the detour.
I guess for this customer being on at the club am extra few minutes than heading to the gate when boarding started it was more important. Well, at least he got a direct flight. Win-win.
Read the piece.
Delta did that to me a few times since they switched to a single gate agent. But happened to me on AA too.
Mine is definitely a close call <5 mins.
To be fair, many times they also keep the boarding based on the new delayed time too.
This specific flight was delayed, making things more complicated.
I blame all these stupid decisions on "on time" metrics.
I've been on countless...
Delta did that to me a few times since they switched to a single gate agent. But happened to me on AA too.
Mine is definitely a close call <5 mins.
To be fair, many times they also keep the boarding based on the new delayed time too.
This specific flight was delayed, making things more complicated.
I blame all these stupid decisions on "on time" metrics.
I've been on countless flights that was delayed by 15-60 mins which ended up departing on time. And yes the gate closed right on original departure time not the delayed one.
Same issue for checking in.
Flight showed delayed 30 mins but check in closed right on original time.
Airlines are having the cake and eating it too.
Based on my experience working at the airport, I would disagree that United is at fault here. When delays are posted, those new timelines are just estimates and the only timeline United is held by is the timeline for the originally scheduled flight. Customers are still expected to show up at the airport/gate based on the original schedule even in the event of a delay, because the airline will try to minimize the delay and...
Based on my experience working at the airport, I would disagree that United is at fault here. When delays are posted, those new timelines are just estimates and the only timeline United is held by is the timeline for the originally scheduled flight. Customers are still expected to show up at the airport/gate based on the original schedule even in the event of a delay, because the airline will try to minimize the delay and leave earlier if possible. If the customer wasn't there by doors close time for the originally scheduled departure, I would say that's on them.
My argument is what if the flight delays for much longer.
You really expect a Global Service flying Polaris to sit around in the gate area for 5 hours so the passenger doesn't get off load?
In reality for longer delays, the customer can choose to risk it knowing that it's unrealistic the flight would be leaving earlier. But per the official requirement, the airline can revert to the timelines of the originally scheduled departure at any time.
Where did you get 5 hours from? Are you reading a different story?
I expect a Global, like any other passenger, to assume personal responsibility for monitoring an evolving situation and being where he or she should be when he or she needs to be there. Period. It's called being an adult.
The United agent in the United Club didn't tell the customer "go to the gate for the original time", she told him that the departure would be at 7 and could board until 6:45, so the customer did everything right, in my opinion, checking in on time and confirming with a United representative about when he needed to board.
You are only "guaranteed" the original scheduled times. I've been on plenty of delayed flights when the departure time suddenly shifted EARLIER due to quicker than anticipated repair or equipment swap.
Curious is he got text notifications that the plane was boarding and then in final boarding. Seems some details were left out.
ETD - ESTIMATED time of departure. You’re supposed to be in the GATE AREA at boarding time. Traveler should’ve hung around instead of drinking in the lounge
@ Ceejay -- Where in the conditions of carriage does it say that? Here's what I see in the conditions of carriage:
"All Passengers must be present at the loading gate for boarding at least 15 minutes prior to scheduled departure."
The scheduled departure was at 7AM, and he was there well over 15 minutes earlier. Something being recommended and something being required are not the same. Some airlines also recommend arriving at the...
@ Ceejay -- Where in the conditions of carriage does it say that? Here's what I see in the conditions of carriage:
"All Passengers must be present at the loading gate for boarding at least 15 minutes prior to scheduled departure."
The scheduled departure was at 7AM, and he was there well over 15 minutes earlier. Something being recommended and something being required are not the same. Some airlines also recommend arriving at the airport three hours before departure. That doesn't mean they have the right to deny you boarding if you don't follow that recommendation.
In this case, scheduled departure is 6:30am though, and the customer wasn't there by 15 minutes prior to that.
As a lawyer - when different terms are used in a contract, you interpret that to mean they have different meanings. Some places, United says "originally scheduled departure." Here, they say "scheduled departure", so I would interpret that to mean that the scheduled departure has been updated to 7:00am, while the originally scheduled departure time was 6:30am.
The 7am was "Est." (estimated) not the scheduled departure which was 6:30. Estimated is not scheduled.
One can argue on the technicalities or one can use common sense. No fault of United in this case for wanting to get the flight out as quickly as possible and reduce the delay. Anytime after the scheduled departure time is fair game. The passenger clearly cut it too close just to get a few extra minutes in the lounge. I honestly don’t think UA even owed him the direct flight they put him on.
"Scheduled departure" means what it says.
It's not "that thing we texted you about" or "that thing the Club agent told you" or even "that electronic flight board we won't ever update properly" or even "the display at the gate."
It's 100% the time it says on your original itinerary for that flight to depart. He chose not to be present at the appropriate time and that's a rookie gamble. He lost.
If you want...
"Scheduled departure" means what it says.
It's not "that thing we texted you about" or "that thing the Club agent told you" or even "that electronic flight board we won't ever update properly" or even "the display at the gate."
It's 100% the time it says on your original itinerary for that flight to depart. He chose not to be present at the appropriate time and that's a rookie gamble. He lost.
If you want to whine that "the board" was wrong or "the gate signage" was wrong or "the Club agent" was wrong, you're right on all counts, although there iis no timestamped picture of a closed gate so that's not an established proven fact, but I'll stipulate to it.
The guy was over 8 minutes late, and the door was closed. He has nothing there.
He was rerouted on a NS Y seat and not Polaris. Should have saved the free drink time from the Club to the gate and enjoyed Polaris all the way. I'm 100% a pax-advocate kind of guy but this is absurd.
Pax messed up.
OMAAT is pretending it's the airline's fault.
It's not. Own up to being at the gate 30 minutes prior to the SCHEDULED departure, not any other "changed timeframes that materialize."
Have one at the Club for me.
p.s. Three months of mentioning it and password recovery on your site is still broken. Fix it and quit whining about your buddy messing up and getting wasted instead of hanging out at the gate of an intercontinental flight.
My argument is what if the flight delays for much longer.
You really expect a Global Service flying Polaris to sit around in the gate area for 5 hours so the passenger doesn't get off load?
To support what @ Chris_ says above, the text message from United stated the following:
"Flight UA2032 from New York/Newark to San Francisco is delayed because we needed to finish cleaning your plane. It now departs at 7:00am on September 29."
I think it's safe to assume that constitutes a new scheduled departure time.
Scheduled departure time is what time it is scheduled. If it is delayed that is not scheduled. You could play semantics and say well thats a new schedule, but thats why they call it a delay. Every airline has the same policy.
If you go to flight status on United's website it clearly says "United Airlines will do everything practical to ensure we provide the most accurate flight status information at all times. However, situations...
Scheduled departure time is what time it is scheduled. If it is delayed that is not scheduled. You could play semantics and say well thats a new schedule, but thats why they call it a delay. Every airline has the same policy.
If you go to flight status on United's website it clearly says "United Airlines will do everything practical to ensure we provide the most accurate flight status information at all times. However, situations change quickly and many factors affect our scheduled operations. Please understand that a flight listed as "Delayed" may, depending on the circumstances, depart "On Time."
@Ben I am guessing he got more messages than that initial one you listed. If he got a text that the plane was boarding or in final boarding why didn't he head to the gate? Based on the size of a 777, from the time he got a initial boarding message, he had time to get to the plane without any rushing.
I don't work for UA, but do work for another carrier. When we say "scheduled departure", that's shorthand for "original, published scheduled departure time". When we update the time, the new time is an "estimated departure". Any carrier when facing a delayed departure will do what it takes to minimize the delay, which seems to be what happened here - the gate agent probably paged this customer, and, not finding them in the gate area,...
I don't work for UA, but do work for another carrier. When we say "scheduled departure", that's shorthand for "original, published scheduled departure time". When we update the time, the new time is an "estimated departure". Any carrier when facing a delayed departure will do what it takes to minimize the delay, which seems to be what happened here - the gate agent probably paged this customer, and, not finding them in the gate area, gave their seat to a standby and moved on. Chalk this up as a lesson learned.
By this logic my 14 hour delay during which BA actually offered (by EU law) accommodation and compensation, instead of taking the hotel I should have slept in front of the gate. When the airline tells you it has RE-scheduled its flight, you really should be able to go on that.
Red Carpet Club could have easily advised passenger of boarding status. Sadly that’s a thing of the past.
Even if we agree the new departure time is 7:00, he is still required to be at the gate 30min before boarding 6:30. he was 8min late.
It really seems he tried to maximize time in the lounge and lost.