I think most people would like to think that their elite status with an airline or hotel group makes them special to that company in some way. After all, the travel brands thank their elite members for being among their best customers, so they’re the ones responsible for the narrative. However, once in a while we get a reality check…
In this post:
When basically everyone is a Marriott Bonvoy elite member
We’ve seen an increasing trend among Marriott Bonvoy properties, whereby they have a sign at the front desk indicating how many elite members are checking in that day. The sign usually says something along the lines of “we are proud of welcoming our Bonvoy elite members,” and then lists the number of each elite tier that are expected to check in that day.
On the surface, that might sound like a nice way to make guests feel special. However, in reality I suspect the purpose is the opposite — it’s to remind guests that their status doesn’t make them that special.
For example, LoyaltyLobby shares how the Marriott in Lake Biwa, Japan, posts a sign showing the number of elite members checking in that day. On Saturday, May 18, 2024, those numbers were as follows:
- There were eight Bonvoy Ambassador members checking in
- There were 22 Bonvoy Titanium members checking in
- There were 105 Bonvoy Platinum members checking in
- There were 80 Bonvoy Gold members checking in
Based on those numbers, you might think that this is the world’s biggest hotel, and it must have thousands of rooms. Nope, the hotel has 265 rooms. Just to do the math there:
- Guests in ~81% of rooms have Bonvy Gold status or higher (215 of 265 rooms)
- Guests in ~51% of rooms have Bonvoy Platinum status or higher (135 or 165 rooms)
Now, I’m actually going to assume those numbers can’t possibly quite be right, and perhaps that number represented the total elite numbers that night, rather than just the members checking in that day. Or maybe everyone just stays at the hotel for a night? Regardless, over half of guests having Platinum status or above should give us quite the reality check.
This elite inflation makes it hard to manage expectations
Suffice it to say that this number of elite members makes it really hard for hotels to manage expectations. Years ago when Delta devalued its SkyMiles program (we’re talking like 43 devaluations ago), the program sent members an email stating that “when everyone’s an elite flyer, no one is.”
The same principle applies here. While some elite perks are guaranteed, other perks are subject to availability, and ultimately you’re competing with a lot of other people. As a Platinum member, it’s reasonable to think that you should get a decent room upgrade. However, when over 50% of guests have that status, what can you really expect?
Similarly, how can you offer a decent club lounge experience when so many guests have access to the lounge? Not only does the lounge become a huge cost center, and not only does it cannibalize food & beverage spending, but it’s also hard to satisfy guests when you have so many people to take care of. No wonder so many hotels “temporarily closed” their club lounges during the pandemic, but they never reopened.
As you might expect, many hotel owners are frustrated by having to deliver on elite perks. I think some hotel owners are just greedy and want the upside of being part of Marriott without delivering on what’s promised. But I think any reasonable hotel owner would see the above and think “gosh, that’s a lot of people to give out perks to.”
Of course the above is an extreme, and I imagine most hotels don’t have 50%+ of guests with Platinum status. However, it’s not that far off from what might be normal.
Why have Marriott’s elite ranks become so bloated?
The reality with Marriott Bonvoy is that elite tiers have become incredibly bloated in recent years. There’s not just one thing contributing to that, but rather it’s many things:
- Marriott Bonvoy lifetime Platinum status is really easy to earn, so Marriott has to consistently offer those benefits in perpetuity (or until elite benefits change)
- Marriott Bonvoy Platinum status is incredibly easy to earn with credit cards; there are even credit cards that give you Platinum status just for being a member
- We’ve seen engagement in hotel loyalty programs increase massively outside the US in recent years, in particular in China and India, which has caused major inflation to elite ranks for properties in India, North Asia, Southeast Asia, etc.
Now, I think it’s important to recognize that this elite rank inflation isn’t all bad news. In the past, it took a lot of effort to have high tier status with a major hotel loyalty program. Nowadays you can earn it so much more easily.
While I’d argue the value of status has decreased, the ease with which you can earn it has increased. Status does still offer valuable perks, ranging from complimentary breakfast, to guaranteed late check-out (at non-resorts), and more.
You can no longer really think you’re special for having Platinum status, or expect to get suite upgrades with any regularity. But if you’re earning the status quite easily, then you’re probably still better off.
Bottom line
Over the years we’ve seen the number of elite members with the major hotel groups increase greatly. This is due to a combination of factors, from lifetime elite status, to hotel groups increasingly monetizing their loyalty programs.
The thing is, often we’re not aware of just how many people we’re competing with for “space available” perks. Hotels posting signs with the number of elite members is definitely one way to get a reality check…
What do you make of the elite rank inflation we’ve seen at Marriott Bonvoy? And what do you make of hotels posting signs with the number of elite members?
Who knows. Maybe on that particular night at that particular hotel there was simply an event of a business consultancy happening. That’s how you would easily reach these numbers. Not surprising at all.
Same when you have a global consultancy having an event somewhere and everybody ends up on the same flight back.
Part of the problem is credit card issuers giving premium credit cards, such as the AMEX Bonvoy Brilliant card that has an annual fee of $650 for free to military members. This card gives you automatic Platinum status. I support the military but diluting the value of expensive premium cards that we pay high annual fees for is ridiculous. This is also why airport lounges are packed and difficult to get into. The only major...
Part of the problem is credit card issuers giving premium credit cards, such as the AMEX Bonvoy Brilliant card that has an annual fee of $650 for free to military members. This card gives you automatic Platinum status. I support the military but diluting the value of expensive premium cards that we pay high annual fees for is ridiculous. This is also why airport lounges are packed and difficult to get into. The only major card issuer that doesn't do this is Capital One.
Life Platinum. Never have felt special except for bottle of water. No upgrades.
Lucky, thank you for this useful post. It confirms my observations. Most of the Marriott club lounges are crowded. I refer to high occupancy in Asian/European Marriott lounges, where everyone is screened on access eligibility. Unlike USA Marriott, where almost everyone visits the lounge, whether tailgate or someone lets a large group to join them in the lounge . I would suggest Marriott to segment the status earnings. Only nights earn status, not CC spending
Here's a counterpoint to credit card status being the main problem. Platinum which is the only status that matters because of free breakfast and lounges is had through a $650 annual fee credit card. The average American who takes one vacation a year likely isn't paying for $650 annual fee for breakfast for one vacation. Its not easy to get your annual fee back in breakfasts if you take a 1-2 week vacation. And even...
Here's a counterpoint to credit card status being the main problem. Platinum which is the only status that matters because of free breakfast and lounges is had through a $650 annual fee credit card. The average American who takes one vacation a year likely isn't paying for $650 annual fee for breakfast for one vacation. Its not easy to get your annual fee back in breakfasts if you take a 1-2 week vacation. And even if you do its still a steep annual fee. People who get the Bonvoy Brilliant card are traveling at least 2+ trips per year to justify the annual fee. Those people would eventually earn some sort of status anyway and Marriott sees it as directing more business to Marriott hotels. It's the travelers who get the card, its not like its a $99 annual fee that every person in the US enrolls for and gets Plat status.
And the argument for Lifetime Platinum through credit card nights is also not as egregious. You still have to have Platinum status for over 10 years. That takes commitment in traveling with status for 10 years or paying $650 annually for 10 years. Lifetime status is not an instant thing and also takes commitment.
Granted, as a Titanium I also think there are way too many elites out there also, but I don't think the Bonvoy Brilliant is the main culprit here.
I do think Lifetime Titanium should be achievable. And there needs to be alot more differentiation in hotel benefits between Platinum and Titanium. I feel like hotels see both status levels as one and the same.
Was at the Renaissance St. Pancras this weekend and the Chambers Club (Titanium and above only) was nice and quaint. Now at the Marriott Heathrow and the lounge is standing room only. It hasn’t been this bad since the early days of the UA partnership when Marriott Gold still got lounge access and all UA Golds & above suddenly got it.
Not prejudice against status earners using credit cards, but in fact they have skewed the statuses without staying the nights.
We try to stay in hotels that we know when its possible. We don't always get treated well at hotels that don't know us, despite our status being Titanium (not treated well, which defeats the purpose of staying at Branded Hotels). Titanium Lifetime was the workings of Marriott at the merge, having earned by...
Not prejudice against status earners using credit cards, but in fact they have skewed the statuses without staying the nights.
We try to stay in hotels that we know when its possible. We don't always get treated well at hotels that don't know us, despite our status being Titanium (not treated well, which defeats the purpose of staying at Branded Hotels). Titanium Lifetime was the workings of Marriott at the merge, having earned by staying nights to achieve both Lifetime with Marriott and Starwood.
Platinum elite staus is eay to earn IN THE USA with credit cards. In Europe this short cut is not possible so we need to earn it the hard way. I mostly see a better treatment compared to US status earened and I think it's fair. I need to stay the nights in the hotel to earn the status
It irks me that my son, platinum via credit card, receives more and better upgrades than me as earned titanium. I also think the program needs an overhaul, including a pathway to lifetime titanium and a new level for those who make 100 nights but not the $23,000 spend. IMHO, silver and gold should be true entry level. That being said, I use Marriott to my advantage, book the room I want if necessary and...
It irks me that my son, platinum via credit card, receives more and better upgrades than me as earned titanium. I also think the program needs an overhaul, including a pathway to lifetime titanium and a new level for those who make 100 nights but not the $23,000 spend. IMHO, silver and gold should be true entry level. That being said, I use Marriott to my advantage, book the room I want if necessary and never hesitate to inquire about a discounted, status-based discount on a suite.
I also believe that this one data point IS reflective of the Marriott brand's dilution of elite status and benefits. Like others here I am lifetime Platinum, currently Titanium, and have experienced this frustration recently. My last 3 hotel stays, I received no upgrade whatsoever, unless a higher floor is considered an upgrade. Ha! In 2 cases this happened in spite of the website clearly showing a larger suite being available. In both cases I...
I also believe that this one data point IS reflective of the Marriott brand's dilution of elite status and benefits. Like others here I am lifetime Platinum, currently Titanium, and have experienced this frustration recently. My last 3 hotel stays, I received no upgrade whatsoever, unless a higher floor is considered an upgrade. Ha! In 2 cases this happened in spite of the website clearly showing a larger suite being available. In both cases I was told they the website was "wrong" and they they really did not have any suites. My suspicion is that they did have them available but awarded them to other elites before I arrived late in the evening. The College hotel in Amsterdam even went as far as to admit that upgrades were given out in a first come, first served basis! They told me this after assigning me the tiniest room in the place at less than 200sf! However, a colleague with Platinum (lower) status who booked his room after me, who arrived at the same time was given a deluxe room that was about double the size. Yes, I complained mightily as this illustrated that they, like many hotels , fail to prioritize their upgrades each day and simply don't manage this process .
Even a Spring Hill Suites in Los Gatos I stay at occasionally lists elites on a whiteboard each day, and I believe it's accurate. In average , out of about 200 rooms, they will have 25 elites each day. Usually this shows about 1 or 2 Ambassador members , 3 or 4 Titanium, 8 Platinum, and 10 or so Gold. This hotel tends to be for longer stays so extrapolating that I would say that at least 50% of the arrivals have status and 20 or 25% or more have at least Platinum status.
This along with their big dilution of point values and even getting cheap with breakfast benefits (if they offer the benefit at all) makes me question my loyalty and wish for another brand that would actually appreciate 75+ nights a year of business. How I miss Starwood!
I believe these numbers are realistically representing the fact that Marriott hotels are full of Platinum members. I am a lifetime
platinum member and currently an Ambassador member. I travel for work and spent 200+ nights in various Marriott hotels and paid over $23k in 2023 per Bonvoy statement. Don’t treat your self too highly if you are a platinum member because almost every other guest is a Platinum. Platinum member is nothing. Hotel...
I believe these numbers are realistically representing the fact that Marriott hotels are full of Platinum members. I am a lifetime
platinum member and currently an Ambassador member. I travel for work and spent 200+ nights in various Marriott hotels and paid over $23k in 2023 per Bonvoy statement. Don’t treat your self too highly if you are a platinum member because almost every other guest is a Platinum. Platinum member is nothing. Hotel staff will tell you that room upgrade is not available most of time.
You will still get free breakfast, but the club or lounge is crowded or not much availed is being provided. Insisting on being a Platinum to get better treatment will only disappoint yourself more.
I cannot think of any hotel chain provides meaningful loyalty program. Shangri-La hotel are being cheap on their frequent guests. Four Season hotel doesn’t have a loyalty program, but keep track your stays to decide if a guest is worthy an upgrade at any particular hotel.
The bottom line is that you need to spend more money, not more nights.
The travel group I belong to has a LOT of top-level Hyatt members. They are treated royally, as documented by many pictures and videos. Of course, it is difficult to obtain that status, but not more so than Ambassador.
The numbers probably are correct.
You made one observation on one day in Lake Biwa, Japan, which is the largest freshwater lake in Japan and has some two dozen hotels and guest houses on or near the lakeshore.
The entire population of people who stayed in a hotel in the same place on the same day had a LOT of inventory to choose from. The Lake Biwa Marriott appears to be (Google.com/travel) about midprice for...
The numbers probably are correct.
You made one observation on one day in Lake Biwa, Japan, which is the largest freshwater lake in Japan and has some two dozen hotels and guest houses on or near the lakeshore.
The entire population of people who stayed in a hotel in the same place on the same day had a LOT of inventory to choose from. The Lake Biwa Marriott appears to be (Google.com/travel) about midprice for what is offered overall. Their location is good, Marriott branded properties are reliable in general, and it's not a surprise that Bonvoy members would cluster there.
It's not unusual for me to see 30% or more of the daily check ins Platinum or better. We are only 92 rooms and sometimes members get an attitude when they expect an upgrade but we have so many elite that we've assigned all upgrades the day before. What we need to talk about is how people are earning status as business owners without staying at the property. They book using their member number and...
It's not unusual for me to see 30% or more of the daily check ins Platinum or better. We are only 92 rooms and sometimes members get an attitude when they expect an upgrade but we have so many elite that we've assigned all upgrades the day before. What we need to talk about is how people are earning status as business owners without staying at the property. They book using their member number and then authorize someone else to use the room. We tell them they must stay to earn but get a negative review if we enforce policy.
I think you should have consulted Marriott data regarding the increase of the number of Platinum and above members rather than basing it on one hotel. Furthermore, the problem as you said is executing on these benefits at the hotel level. I agree there is some value, but making it easier to get means that more of the benefits cannot be guaranteed.
Is it possible that board did not count rooms but heads? As in two people in a platinum status room both count toward the number? That would make more sense for those numbers in my opinion.
They would only have one Bonvoy number on file so that would not be possible.
Such a poor and misleading analysis.
Depends on the day, type of hotel and city at the time of looking at the statistics. When I am at a conference and stay at the Marriott conference hotel, its likely almost everyone is platinum and above as they are all business travelers on the road loyal to Marriott.
When I stay at a non business hotel in a vacation destination (where people have booked through travel...
Such a poor and misleading analysis.
Depends on the day, type of hotel and city at the time of looking at the statistics. When I am at a conference and stay at the Marriott conference hotel, its likely almost everyone is platinum and above as they are all business travelers on the road loyal to Marriott.
When I stay at a non business hotel in a vacation destination (where people have booked through travel agents and on package holidays) i bet there are hardly any.
This article is ridiculous and misleading
Maybe you should contact Marriott and see if they can give you some real data. Rather then take a snap shot from one hotel on one day and come to your stupid conclusions.
Agree the title is misleading, as the sample size is too small. But the points the article makes are valid, IMO. When everyone's elite, no one is.
Hotels should prioritize earned status over gifted status. Period. And yes, I keep blaming travel bloggers with their affiliate links and their “independent” credit card reviews for the problem.
Status via credit card is single worst thing about hotel loyalty, its the reason why status benefits in the US are pretty much non existant. Terrible breakfasts that they still expect a tip on, hardly any lounges, 'upgrades' to a higher floor and late checkout til 1pm
Thing is, ppl shouldnt look at hotel loyalty as something being offered by the hotel for loyalty, its now just a cashflow method for the hotel brand. Huge...
Status via credit card is single worst thing about hotel loyalty, its the reason why status benefits in the US are pretty much non existant. Terrible breakfasts that they still expect a tip on, hardly any lounges, 'upgrades' to a higher floor and late checkout til 1pm
Thing is, ppl shouldnt look at hotel loyalty as something being offered by the hotel for loyalty, its now just a cashflow method for the hotel brand. Huge amounts of revenue from credit cards with relatively low outgoings when those points are used.
Bonvoy gold is basically worthless anywhere tho, its about as useful as no status.
Meh. People dont travel as much for business as they did precovid. Hotels are adapting to the times. People want status and having a credit card with annual fee is the best way to get it. These people are still paying for it via annual fee and opportunity cost that they could be earning points affiliated with another company on a different credit card. Its just the business traveller community mourning the loss of their...
Meh. People dont travel as much for business as they did precovid. Hotels are adapting to the times. People want status and having a credit card with annual fee is the best way to get it. These people are still paying for it via annual fee and opportunity cost that they could be earning points affiliated with another company on a different credit card. Its just the business traveller community mourning the loss of their special unique status. They are a small piece of the pie now so why should these companies cater to them.
Credit cards, and bloggers, killed it all. Leading to Kyle at LALF saying it's actually the fault of the Boomers in his post today.
I'm just laughing at all of you. The 30 somethings that created this mess who after blame Gen X and Boomers for it as Kyle does.
The corporations made it. We enjoyed it. People found ways to exploit it. The Hotels and Airlines adapted. Then, lo and behold, the ride ended. Simple is that. It's over. Get over it.
Bloggers hyping credit cards for a fee
For me the bigger issue with Bonvoy is the inflation in award rates. The point costs are getting to be Hilton-esque, while the points are still much slower to earn than Hilton.
It is easy to get status. A few work trips during the annual double nights 1k bonus per night. Credit card for 15 nights. Another 3 or 4 nights from card every 5k spending. Boom you are in. I am at 105 nights with 56 of them paid so far this year. Probably have another 20 nights this year maybe more. Is what it is I guess. But the crowds in the lounges suck. I...
It is easy to get status. A few work trips during the annual double nights 1k bonus per night. Credit card for 15 nights. Another 3 or 4 nights from card every 5k spending. Boom you are in. I am at 105 nights with 56 of them paid so far this year. Probably have another 20 nights this year maybe more. Is what it is I guess. But the crowds in the lounges suck. I was recently at SFO and LAX Airport Marriotts and they get crowded. Was working at SFO for a few hours getting work done watching people load up on chec mix, peanuts, cookies. Take 4 sodas lol.... People never leave tips for staff.... I mean they do but majority don't.... Not sure what to make of it.
Funny.
Of course the notorious DYKWIA will complain about this the loudest (and had been publishing these Bonvoy number for years).
DYKWIA can't get recognized so DYKWIA has to do what any DYKWIA has to do.
DYKWIA probably extort a couple of free nights because all those platinums were too loud in a club lounge with a broken tv that no one ever watched and the breakfast opened 17 seconds late made DYKWIA missed...
Funny.
Of course the notorious DYKWIA will complain about this the loudest (and had been publishing these Bonvoy number for years).
DYKWIA can't get recognized so DYKWIA has to do what any DYKWIA has to do.
DYKWIA probably extort a couple of free nights because all those platinums were too loud in a club lounge with a broken tv that no one ever watched and the breakfast opened 17 seconds late made DYKWIA missed the airport shuttle.
For the rest of us who don't pull a DYKWIA, it's the new reality. Even Matthew complained about this over the new year if I'm correct.
One thing I think credit is due is the transparency of this.
Would have been even better if they published the upgrade list.
I don't believe for one second that these signs bear any relation to reality in almost any of the properties that post them; it's simply management lying to downplay expectations for elite benefits and treatment to which guests are entitled, or to get out of them entirely.
How would you know?
Do property owners (particularly in the Marriott ecosystem) typically operate in good faith with respect to elite benefits?
"I don't believe for one second that these signs bear any relation to reality in almost any of the properties that post them; it's simply management lying to downplay expectations for elite benefits and treatment to which guests are entitled, or to get out of them entirely."
Bingo!
While there is plenty of truth in this article as to what is going on, that picture is hysterical to rely on as anything close to a...
"I don't believe for one second that these signs bear any relation to reality in almost any of the properties that post them; it's simply management lying to downplay expectations for elite benefits and treatment to which guests are entitled, or to get out of them entirely."
Bingo!
While there is plenty of truth in this article as to what is going on, that picture is hysterical to rely on as anything close to a data point. Doing so takes the naive approach the hotel is being straight with their numbers when they have no incentive to do anything except gaslight and lie. If anything, signage like that is simply another tool smart properties use to obfuscate/better control the inventory to their advantage.
Ultimately, Bonvoy has a choice to make. Allow continued swelling of the “elite” ranks with associated dilution of benefits such that hotels refuse to abide by Bonvoy T&C, and lose business from those who genuinely earn their status (and others who expect more than just the vanity of an elite status)…or go the route of Delta and United and make status difficult to obtain but more consistent in the delivery of benefits for elites at...
Ultimately, Bonvoy has a choice to make. Allow continued swelling of the “elite” ranks with associated dilution of benefits such that hotels refuse to abide by Bonvoy T&C, and lose business from those who genuinely earn their status (and others who expect more than just the vanity of an elite status)…or go the route of Delta and United and make status difficult to obtain but more consistent in the delivery of benefits for elites at the various tiers. Marriott could simply drop Silver and Gold altogether as status tiers, and then up the requirements for Platinum, Titanium, and Ambassador. The latter choice, I believe, is inevitable. I don’t think hotels will necessarily abide even then - but they’ll have much less of an argument when there’s only a handful of ambassadors in a given week versus 50%+.
So, it would just be a rebranding of the elite levels. Platinum would be the new Silver, Titanium would be the new Gold, and Ambassador would be the new Platinum? According to what Ben wrote there was not 50 percent plus Ambassador members staying at this hotel, it was Platinum members.
Another way hotels can solve this problem is by providing extra, special soft treatment to its high elite members. I remember staying at an...
So, it would just be a rebranding of the elite levels. Platinum would be the new Silver, Titanium would be the new Gold, and Ambassador would be the new Platinum? According to what Ben wrote there was not 50 percent plus Ambassador members staying at this hotel, it was Platinum members.
Another way hotels can solve this problem is by providing extra, special soft treatment to its high elite members. I remember staying at an Intercontinental Hotel and they reserved a special section for its Diamond and Ambassador members for breakfast. Though, it may not always work. There were two CPs I stayed at and there were reserved for Diamond elite members signs on the tables but actually anyone can just sit there.
There was another Intercontinental Hotel I stayed at where they have their staff recognize their Diamond and Ambassador members and they personally greet you during the breakfast hours at the hotel restaurant as well keeping an elite section only at the restaurant. Though, it may not always work because on the first morning there I did not receive this elite treatment because she said there were simply too many Diamond and Ambassador members on that day.
This also applied to a Hilton Hotel I stayed at where during a huge group conference the restaurant staff member put a Diamond elite display on the table to ensure its elite members had a place to eat.
So, the point is that hotels can actually do more to recognize its elites especially those who earned it with the case of IHG Diamond as they cannot simply be earned via CC.
this definitely diminishes the value of Titanium and Ambassdor
I am an ambassador member and it's frustrating dealing with crowded lounges (many with diminished offerings to compensate for the increased foot traffic),longer "elite" check in lines, crowded breakfasts....''
I understand what they are trying to do but I wish that they would make the top tiers more valuable - things that really make a difference like dealing with resort fees, etc
it’s time to get back to basis, Hotel and Airlines should recognize frequet flyers and stop granting benefits to credit card holders!
It would not work as Ben has already written in so many articles about how these loyalty programs are making money from CC holders and how some of these programs are encouraging those to spend more on their CCs as a way to earn elite status.
wow. Well timed post. Have dome 90 nights at Hyatt this year and was thinking might as well build Marriot status too instead of crediting more nights. Nevermind. I'll stick with Hyatt! Find the perks pretty available.
Bonvoy Gold= Amex Platinum, Basic Bonvoy Cards, Basic Marriott cards with a couple nights
Bonvoy Platinum= Bonvoy Brilliant (or a couple nights stayed annually with credit card nights, or people hanging on to the credit cards long enough)
Bonvoy Titanium= Old people with lifetime SPG Platinum after the merger getting Lifetime Titanium
Ambassadors= Ok these people really are putting up nights.
As soon as you name a property people with elite status...
Bonvoy Gold= Amex Platinum, Basic Bonvoy Cards, Basic Marriott cards with a couple nights
Bonvoy Platinum= Bonvoy Brilliant (or a couple nights stayed annually with credit card nights, or people hanging on to the credit cards long enough)
Bonvoy Titanium= Old people with lifetime SPG Platinum after the merger getting Lifetime Titanium
Ambassadors= Ok these people really are putting up nights.
As soon as you name a property people with elite status would want to stay at because they have elite status everyone is rolling up. If you can just get a Bonvoy Brillant for platinum for $650 a year (including other benefits), how much can platinum status really be worth paying for then?
Old people? LOL.
A few weeks ago I walked past a front desk at a Hilton property and was greeted by the FD staff; I returned a smile and made a casual comment to her that I’ve never been lucky enough to park in the reserved Diamond spots.
“reserved for Elites” and her reply was “well it’s pretty tough when 85-90% of stays were by Diamond members”
I think they just should stop making it so easy with credit cards. I haven't got a Bonvoy Credit Card and they don't really offer it in Switzerland. But I'n the last couple of years I always was a Silver or Gold member with just leisure trips.
A few additional points:
Marriott Gold status used to be a big thing. It included club access or breakfasts and possibly upgrades; You need at least Platinum for those same benefits now. After consuming the whole Sheraton/Westin complex of hotels, Marriott Gold status became pretty much worthless. I mention that because the same thing could (and probably will) happen again. And just like the airlines, Marriott and other hotel chains simply add new status levels...
A few additional points:
Marriott Gold status used to be a big thing. It included club access or breakfasts and possibly upgrades; You need at least Platinum for those same benefits now. After consuming the whole Sheraton/Westin complex of hotels, Marriott Gold status became pretty much worthless. I mention that because the same thing could (and probably will) happen again. And just like the airlines, Marriott and other hotel chains simply add new status levels (“uranium” or “plutonium” perhaps) above the current ones and degrade the benefits of Platinum and perhaps Titanium.
One factor that you (Lucky) haven't factored in – and perhaps you don't know about it – was that Marriott added a tremendous number of new Platinum and Titanium members as the result of acquiring the Vistana (formerly Westin Vacation Club and Sheraton Vacation Club) timeshare properties and merging them into a new Marriott run program called “Abound.” Depending upon how many weeks and locations of timeshare ownership (or points) you have within this gigantic entity, you can readily get Marriott Platinum or Titanium status as a benefit of your “vacation ownership” without the need for credit cards or even staying at a Marriott-controlled hotel – that accounts for a good number of new elite members!
PS: In many years with Marriott status, first with Gold and now with Platinum, I have yet to get any form of room upgrade. And none of my friends with similar status have ever seen room upgrades either.
Make that Titanium (as opposed to Platinum). I jumped from Gold to Titanium in one hop due to timeshare “ownership.”
While I just posted about how frustrating the lack of upgrades has been recently, it surprises me that you have never been upgraded with Platinum status. At the very least, you would get upgraded to the concierge level at any hotel that offers a concierge level. In these cases, I would say I get upgraded nearly 100% of the time and often it's to a junior suite. It must be the cities and the hotels...
While I just posted about how frustrating the lack of upgrades has been recently, it surprises me that you have never been upgraded with Platinum status. At the very least, you would get upgraded to the concierge level at any hotel that offers a concierge level. In these cases, I would say I get upgraded nearly 100% of the time and often it's to a junior suite. It must be the cities and the hotels that you are staying at that do not have any/many upgrade rooms available.
Back when Gold was the big thing you needed 50 nights to qualify for Gold. Now you need 50 nights to qualify for Platinum, and less for Gold and thus Platinum is the big thing. Same big thing, 50 nights, different name.
I have seen these signs at many hotels and it is disheartening for someone like me who earned lifetime titanium the hard way - head on pillow for many, many years. I have not received a complimentary suite upgrade for the last 2 years. My advice - loyalty is worthless, cash is king!
I'm a little shocked as titanium is quite a bit harder to come by
I think all check-in desks should post these stats. Then I know what the quality of conversation at the bar will be.
unless it's the only choice in the area, there's basically no reason anyone who isn't a Bonvoy member (and especially one who doesn't have some sort of elite status) should stay at a Marriott property. the prices are often so out of whack with the rest of the market.
Another take on this - the only guests this hotel on Lake Biwa can get are marriot loyalists who get something for saying there - it’s a fairly bland hotel in an unremarkable location on a lake with a lot of better places to be. Anyone know what it was branded before it affiliated with Marriott?
More generally, though I think that hotel loyalty programmes definitely work for the hotels but if you aren’t a...
Another take on this - the only guests this hotel on Lake Biwa can get are marriot loyalists who get something for saying there - it’s a fairly bland hotel in an unremarkable location on a lake with a lot of better places to be. Anyone know what it was branded before it affiliated with Marriott?
More generally, though I think that hotel loyalty programmes definitely work for the hotels but if you aren’t a road warrior racking up the points in anonymous bland hotels or your putting big spend; and getting free nights out of it you can always find somewhere better and/or cheaper to stay when you go to a destination. A club lounge and a free breakfast aren’t worth it.
Once it was called La Forêt Biwako, a resort brand under Mori Trust, big property development company in Japan and the owner of famous high-rises in Tokyo such as Toranomon Hills. They developed a partnership with Marriott since 2013 and rebranded some (under-performed?) properties to Marriott.
Actually Mori Trust has nothing to do with Toranomon Hills. All the Hills projects are Mori Corporation not Mori Trust. While the two companies have the same origin, they are now competitors.
Tokyo World Gate where the Toranomon Edition is located is a Mori Trust project.
Mori Trust works with Marriott, Mori Corporation with the Hills projects works with Hyatt.
Outside of a few regions, I don’t expect any room upgrades even with top tier status. Just accept that you will only get breakfast, late checkout, and thank you for being diamond/globalist/etc.
Not giving hotel management a pass here, but even if the elite population overall is not as large as this one data point, this would be one reason beyond simple stinginess for the dilution of elite breakfast benefits, and the shift to daily credits. If some large percentage of guests are entitled to a free full breakfast, it's not just a cost, it's presumably a capacity issue if all of them turn up within a...
Not giving hotel management a pass here, but even if the elite population overall is not as large as this one data point, this would be one reason beyond simple stinginess for the dilution of elite breakfast benefits, and the shift to daily credits. If some large percentage of guests are entitled to a free full breakfast, it's not just a cost, it's presumably a capacity issue if all of them turn up within a one-hour window on a weekday. I know that I will not pay $30-$40 for a full breakfast, but if it's comped I'll definitely show up for it. A dollar credit is not only cheaper to provide but will be "spent" throughout the day.
I haven't had a single upgrade in 2 years with the exception of my upgrade certificate last year and that seemed dicey until I checked in. That's why this year I haven't given Marriott any business. Platinum on Marriott is worthless and I don't intend to continue with them. I have problems with Hilton as well but they're less awful in my experience so I'll stick with them. However, I'm now moving towards csr and...
I haven't had a single upgrade in 2 years with the exception of my upgrade certificate last year and that seemed dicey until I checked in. That's why this year I haven't given Marriott any business. Platinum on Marriott is worthless and I don't intend to continue with them. I have problems with Hilton as well but they're less awful in my experience so I'll stick with them. However, I'm now moving towards csr and amex lux hotel benefits instead. At least Until everyone does that and breaks that model.
Good thing they figured out how to do this at every hotel outside US as well as every cheap hotel like Hampton Inn.
It's usually a 3-4 hour window and everyone can be fed without at issue.
I don't think non-US members will be inflating elite membership much. Yes they might be engaged with the programme, but they don't have such easy access to immediate high status and massive points earning in the same way as US credit card holders!
You honestly think that 1-5 nights a year from credit cards makes a difference in achieving lifetime status. What? Over 25 years?
Classic Alan. Can’t see what’s 2 feet in front of them.
you do realise you can get up to 40 nights each year with the US personal and business cards 25+15
Platinum might be easy to obtain in the United States where you have credit cards that basically gift it to you but in other countries where there are no Bonvoy credit cards, such as Australia, it’s quite difficult to earn. This creates an inequity because I do find I get good recognition in some countries as a platinum or titanium whereas in the US I’m barely given any recognition despite having made a significant effort...
Platinum might be easy to obtain in the United States where you have credit cards that basically gift it to you but in other countries where there are no Bonvoy credit cards, such as Australia, it’s quite difficult to earn. This creates an inequity because I do find I get good recognition in some countries as a platinum or titanium whereas in the US I’m barely given any recognition despite having made a significant effort and spend to get P or T. The situation with these credit cards needs to be resolved as it’s creating an unfair situation for Bonvoy members outside the US. They need to put more thought into the impacts on their global program. If they regard platinum as such a basic elite status they should make it easier to earn for members based elsewhere.
Japan is among a few lucky countries where Bonvoy affiliated credit card is available. For 330 USD annual fee, AMEX Bonvoy Premium card will grant us instant Gold status with 15 elite night credit, 3 Bonvoy points per 0.66USD spent on everyday purchase (doubled when used at Marriott hotel), free night certificate up to 50000 points once we spent USD 10,000 in calendar year, and 12-months Platinum status once we spent USD 26,000 in calendar...
Japan is among a few lucky countries where Bonvoy affiliated credit card is available. For 330 USD annual fee, AMEX Bonvoy Premium card will grant us instant Gold status with 15 elite night credit, 3 Bonvoy points per 0.66USD spent on everyday purchase (doubled when used at Marriott hotel), free night certificate up to 50000 points once we spent USD 10,000 in calendar year, and 12-months Platinum status once we spent USD 26,000 in calendar year. Maybe this card explains high number of platinum visitors at this hotel. (1USD = around 150JPY)
That's helpful to hear.
I'm American, I recently got back form Australia - and stopped in Fiji for the night on the way back. I stayed at the Sheridan Fiji Golf and Beach Resort - most other patrons were Aussies - What I couldn't believe was that my Bonvoy Gold status (that I get through my AMEX Platinum - that I get the annual fee reimbursed by Morgan Stanley) got me a welcome amenity of...
That's helpful to hear.
I'm American, I recently got back form Australia - and stopped in Fiji for the night on the way back. I stayed at the Sheridan Fiji Golf and Beach Resort - most other patrons were Aussies - What I couldn't believe was that my Bonvoy Gold status (that I get through my AMEX Platinum - that I get the annual fee reimbursed by Morgan Stanley) got me a welcome amenity of a bottle of champaign and some tasty snacks, and super long comments from the staff thanking me for my loyalty (they wouldn't give me what I really wanted which was 2:00pm checkout) to the point it felt awkward since I think I spent 6 total nights at Marriotts in 2023.
That also makes sense why my lowly Hyatt Discoverist status (through a credit card, but I'm being super loyal to Hyatt this year trying to qualify for Globalist status - but will get a boost of 11 nights from the card) got me 8:30am check-in at the Hyatt Regency Sydney, and 2:00pm check-out on all 3 of my Hyatt stays in Australia immediately offered and me not needing to request it.
Well, remove the 0.8% interchange cap limit law in Australia and join the US at 2.0 or 3.0 %. Then credit card company's can offer you the same benefits.
Many Japanese Marriott hotels display the number of elites for the night because Japanese elites often demand perks from the management, the sign is a way shut them up. But you’re right. I have been a Titanium but recently my success rate of upgrading to a suite is less than 10%. Marriott also needs to stop offering the double elite night campaign because that’s how elites in Asia obtain status since most countries don’t have cobranded cards there.
Yeah but those members still need to earn it harder than those with a simple CC granting even higher elite status. It is a way for hotels to engage with those outside of the U.S. They also earn more money from those with double elite night stays as they would want to keep spending and staying to earn elite or even higher elite status. To really solve your problem would be to not offer co-branded CC or only offer entry elite level like Hyatt or Choice.
What an incredibly misleading headline. "50%+ of Guests Platinum" when that's one night at one hotel? Come on.
also depends on the day, type of hotel and city at the time of looking at the statistics. When I am at a conference and stay at the Marriott conference hotel, its likely almost everyone is platinum and above as they are all business travelers on the road loyal to Marriott. When I stay at a non business hotel in a vacation destination, i bet there are hardly any. I agree with you its a totally misleading headline.
Wait lifetime platinum status is easy? >50 nights a year for 10 years is easy given all of the hoops we all have to jump through now with corporations trying to constrain travel costs and dictating where you have to stay? Dictating we have to use their corporate cards eliminating all of the credit card perks? I just find this the most flip comment. Lifetime platinum was in no way easy on me or my...
Wait lifetime platinum status is easy? >50 nights a year for 10 years is easy given all of the hoops we all have to jump through now with corporations trying to constrain travel costs and dictating where you have to stay? Dictating we have to use their corporate cards eliminating all of the credit card perks? I just find this the most flip comment. Lifetime platinum was in no way easy on me or my family to achieve. Realizing that I have spent the equivalent of 4 years in a Marriott hotel over the last 10 is not easy. Unbelievable.
Agree that if people are achieving this status any other way than staying the requisite number of nights actually in a hotel then maybe they need to fragment that status. But please don’t belittle what it takes to hit these ridiculous metrics.
@ Angela -- It's much easier to earn than with other hotel groups. You can earn up to 40 elite nights per year with Marriott credit cards, and you can also earn Platinum status with credit cards. Both of those count toward the requirement for Platinum status.
I'm not trying to dismiss your accomplishment or say you didn't work hard for it, but it's much easier for many to earn lifetime Marriott Platinum status than...
@ Angela -- It's much easier to earn than with other hotel groups. You can earn up to 40 elite nights per year with Marriott credit cards, and you can also earn Platinum status with credit cards. Both of those count toward the requirement for Platinum status.
I'm not trying to dismiss your accomplishment or say you didn't work hard for it, but it's much easier for many to earn lifetime Marriott Platinum status than lifetime Globalist, for example, which requires a million base points (equal to $200K in hotel spending).
It's ludicrous that free nights from credit cards count to lifetime status like that.
Everyone benefits from it, if they take it away another group of people will complain.
You're not better because you earned elite nights through spending money at a hotel vs being practical and opening up a cobranded cards. You have the same opportunity to open up a cobranded cards as everyone else.
For status obtained via CCs, these should tie in to certain minimum spend requirements. Don't fulfill the minimum spend on a CC, no status. Win for the CCs (and Marriott), win for those earning via regular night counts.
Interesting, but another consideration.
When I was working, I was a frequent traveler to Asia and Europe. My homemade was Oregon, and made frequent trips to the Bay area.
We also traveled a lot to the same places.
My wife and I valued the lounges and breakfasts the most. Didn't worry or care about room upgrades, but we're thankful when we got them.
We've been retired for 5 years, so travel now is pleasure only....
Interesting, but another consideration.
When I was working, I was a frequent traveler to Asia and Europe. My homemade was Oregon, and made frequent trips to the Bay area.
We also traveled a lot to the same places.
My wife and I valued the lounges and breakfasts the most. Didn't worry or care about room upgrades, but we're thankful when we got them.
We've been retired for 5 years, so travel now is pleasure only. We are Platinum with Marriott and Diamond with Hilton, both by credit cards now, but earned during our working years.
I must say, Asia and Europe are much better for clubs and lounges. We were just in Cairo for a week, and the Sheraton there gave us a top floor corner room with a view of the Pyramids overlooking the Nile. The lounge was phenomenal with so much food for the evening, and cooked to order breakfasts.
A few years ago we were at a Courtyard in Osaka, a Marriott in Tokyo, and other Marriott properties in Dubai, Beijing, and Shanghai. The loungers in all places were outstanding, putting most of the US places to shame. The US MClubs are inferior.
As for Hilton, great lounge experiences in Reykjavik recently.
The main problem with both brands is inconsistency with what to expect at each of their branded properties. The questions to ask corporate are: why are the properties so inconsistent? What are the minimum requirements to maintain a franchise or branding?
The costs I pay to keep those two CCs is wel worth the food and drink benefits I get for multi-day stays. An upgraded room does little for me.
PS the free room stays are very nice, too as well as the other CC benefits.
Come on, Lucky. You point to one data point and call it a trend. Did you consider the fact that the property in question may be just popular with many Marriott Elites? I like your blog, but one data point doesn't make a trend.
@ Joseph Story -- I acknowledged in the post that this is obviously an especially high percentage of elite members, and that it's not usually quite this high. The point remains, though, and I think it's worth addressing. It's common for properties to have dozens of Platinum members or above at a time, and that makes it hard to manage expectations.
Hi Ben, I checked some Japanese blog regarding this hotel and indeed there are some reports of high percentage of Marriott Elites in this hotel - especially on high season. I see a photo showing even on weekday in mid-February, this hotel welcomed 70 Elites (8 ambassador, 23 titanium, 32 Platinum and 7 Gold) - quite high as hotel occupancy would not be that high on that day in February.
The Marriott Associa in Nagoya has similar signs, and they also have surprising high elite numbers.
I experienced a similar sign posting at the Marriott Momi Bay in Fiji, again the numbers where quite high, but not this high. Observing it from day to day, I would say that what they showed was in reality the number of guests staying that day, even if the text did indicate that it was the number checking in.
I would say the same situation has happened at AA. Exec Plat upgrades are increasingly harder to come by, and I am often number 4-6 on the upgrade list versus being pre cleared or near the top of the list in past years. The priority checkin line has also gotten much more crowded this year than in years past. I’ve now moved my loyalty over to BA and haven’t looked back. As a BA Gold...
I would say the same situation has happened at AA. Exec Plat upgrades are increasingly harder to come by, and I am often number 4-6 on the upgrade list versus being pre cleared or near the top of the list in past years. The priority checkin line has also gotten much more crowded this year than in years past. I’ve now moved my loyalty over to BA and haven’t looked back. As a BA Gold member, being able to use the Flagship First checkin and lounge in MIA has weekend was a very pleasant treat.
BA really does seem much more generous when flying on AA. Unless you're CK or a top spending EXP, the ease of getting BA Gold and the fact you can access AA lounges domestically while getting all the perks of early seat selection makes it feel like a better choice.
Is there Marriott Convoy elite data beyond this one hotel?
When I stayed at the Tribune Hyatt JDV in Rome last year, they had a list of rooms at the breakfast check-in and over half of them were Globalists! So I think this may be more the specific hotel and what other brand options are available locally, given that Hyatt Globalist is a lot harder to earn than Marriott Platinum
@ Ted -- Only data points, as loyalty programs are generally tight-lipped regarding the number of people in elite ranks. And you're definitely right, it does also depend on the property, time of year, etc.
Makes sense - corporate secrets. Shhh! ;)
^ this answer when my coworkers look at me like I am insane for staying at Hyatt when traveling.
Let's be honest, this wasn't even a conversation pre 2020. Nobody talked about Skyclub and Centurion lounge overcrowding, club lounges in hotels being at capacity, TSA precheck lines being longer than usual and hotel status meaning less and less.
Welcome to the phenomenon of social media. The difference is that there’s so much more people out there taking advantage of points and miles, and there’s so many influencers out there hyping up the next greatest card and status benefit. It’s an industry problem of their own creation more than anything especially when the base non status experience is so terrible
I think I was happier when I was Hilton & Marriott Silver. At least I didn't have expectations of a room upgrade and late checkout.
I value the guaranteed perks of a program. So as a Bonvoy Titanium for example I value the free continental breakfast for 2 or lounge access. If I need a suite, I book that. So when choosing a hotel I look at the price and the benefits offered. I almost never choose courtyards or other low end hotels.
I don't consider myself Elite I just consider myself able to get a discount on breakfast included rates.
Yep.
Marriott has no reason to care. Let the ranks swell. What matters to Marriott is R-E-V-E-N-U-E. And, those members who are their high spenders irrespective of Elite Night Credits are the members who butter their bread. Those are the members who they will ensure are treated well at the properties. Pure and simple.
This Winter and early Spring, Marriott was giving double Elite nights. This doesn't help.
.
Just exclude Americans and then we are even. Because people in Europe for example get their Bonvoy Status usually with head on the pillow. No credit cards. And then double nights help.
>Just exclude Americans and then we are even.
Yeah but what percentage of Marriott properties and customers are American?
Amex bonvoy brilliant and for Hilton Aspire dilutes the status. If weren't for these cards I'm sure Hilton would still give free unlimited breakfast to diamond members that truly earned status from real stays/spend
But this is only for US based members. Members based in other countries have no credit card nights to count on and have to actually stay 50 nights a year to get platinum. It’s really not fair.
Plus they only earn 10 points per USD spent, with elite bonuses but none of the massive credit card multipliers or easy earning - reward nights are therefore much harder to earn.
Japan is among a lucky few countries where AMEX issues Bonvoy and HHonors affiliated credit card which instantly grants Gold status once you have a card - for less than 300 EUR annual fee. Marriott Gold is not so valuable but HHonors Gold is quite valuable as it accompanies free breakfast - and Hilton in Asia typically serve quite nice breakfast buffet!
At the risk of repeating my previous comment Abt Australia, Europe's cap of 0.3 to 0.4% interchange vs US 2 to 3% is why American get those benefits. Credit card issuers are earning up to 10x what they earn in Europe. They give some of that back as benefits to encourage holders to spend. If you can convince the EU to roll back that ruling, you can get those nights just like the US.