Lufthansa plans to introduce its new Allegris cabins in the near future, including a new first class and new business class. The airline actually announced plans for this back in 2017, yet somehow six years later, not a single plane has these seats.
What’s hilarious is that Lufthansa seemingly just keeps discovering new challenges with Allegris, even though the airline has had so many years to prepare for this (presumably plans for Allegris started long before the announcement in 2017). This latest update might just be the wildest of all, though. Like, if I saved this post for April 1, it would be believable then as well.
In this post:
Lufthansa’s bizarre Boeing 747 Allegris plans
We’ve known for some time that Lufthansa plans to reconfigure its Boeing 747-8s with new Allegris cabins. When we learned that, I asked the question of exactly how that reconfiguration process would work, given the unique challenges of the 747-8, in terms of the nose, the upper deck, etc.
I figured this is something that Lufthansa executives had put a lot of thought into. After all, the airline has a fleet of 19 747-8s, and these are the carrier’s flagship aircraft that are sticking around for quite some time.
Well, apparently Lufthansa didn’t actually put much thought into this. Reliable German aviation site aeroTELEGRAPH reports on the latest plan that Lufthansa is considering for its Boeing 747-8s. Are you sitting down? Are you ready?
- For a period of two years, Lufthansa would only install the new Allegris business class on the lower deck, and not on the upper deck
- Since the new seats are heavier and it would change the center of gravity, Lufthansa would have to install a 700kg weight near the rear of the aircraft
- Then eventually Lufthansa would introduce a new business class on the upper deck, but this needs to be custom made, given the challenges of the fuselage width on the upper deck
- Similarly, Lufthansa would eventually introduce a new first class, but this also needs to be custom made, given the challenges associated with the shape of the nose
- Once the new products are introduced across the board, odds are that an even heavier weight would need to be installed in the rear of the aircraft, given the weight of the seats
Should Lufthansa just start all over again?
Introducing new cabin concepts is no small task — it’s complicated, it’s expensive, and then you add in the supply chain issues we have nowadays, and it’s all the more complicated.
But Lufthansa’s Allegris product is honestly the most poorly planned premium product implementation we’ve seen ever. Where do we even begin?
- The product was announced six years ago, and even now, there are additional delays, and the product will only be introduced in 2024
- Apparently the new first class seat will only be ready after the new business class seat, so Lufthansa may be flying around A350s with nothing in the space of the first class cabin for quite some time
- Lufthansa’s new first class makes zero sense, with a 3.5 seat cabin; planes will only have two standard first class seats, and the center double suite looks downright uncomfortable for first class, especially if one person wants to sleep, and the other doesn’t
- Lufthansa is somehow marketing how having seven different business class seating options (most with additional fees) is good for consumers, but it’s awful in terms of managing expectations; furthermore, what happens in the event of a schedule change, aircraft swap, etc.
- When Lufthansa announced the Allegris project in 2017, did the airline really not put any thought into how it would reconfigure its flagship aircraft, the 747-8? The airline is only now considering this, six years later, with the interim solution of installing the new seats on the lower deck, but not the upper deck?
- At this point there’s nothing cutting edge about Lufthansa’s new Allegris product; I mean, the product looked pretty decent in 2017, but seats have evolved a lot since then
When Lufthansa executives step back and consider their current plans for Allegris, is this really something they’re proud of and that they think was well executed?
Bottom line
Lufthansa plans to refresh the cabins of its Boeing 747-8s, though apparently not much thought was put into what that would look like. Lufthansa is reportedly seriously considering installing its new business class on the lower deck, but not on the upper deck, as there’s an additional delay for the airline to come up with a product that will work there. The same is true for first class.
I’m really starting to think that Lufthansa might be better off just forgetting about this whole project, and starting from scratch, because there’s very little here that makes sense…
What’s your take on Lufthansa’s Boeing 747-8 Allegris plans?
What happened to all the eco-conscience steps airlines are allegedly taking, such as less paint, beverage & food trolleys etc. Adding weights in the tail to account for a heavier business class product?
Why would any airline want seats that are so heavy it throws off the weight of a plane? I mean, every kg adds cost over time. Surely it is not an insignificant cost to have such heavy seats...
I could be wrong, because memory is short. However, my recollection is that the original plan was to retire the B747-8i fleet already 2025-27 (something like this). I am not convinced the retrofit of this sub fleet was included in the original design. So for that matter, the specific ridicule of the B747-8i issue is perhaps overstated.
Having said that, the entire Allegris concept is a joke. In 2019, I had dinner with a very...
I could be wrong, because memory is short. However, my recollection is that the original plan was to retire the B747-8i fleet already 2025-27 (something like this). I am not convinced the retrofit of this sub fleet was included in the original design. So for that matter, the specific ridicule of the B747-8i issue is perhaps overstated.
Having said that, the entire Allegris concept is a joke. In 2019, I had dinner with a very senior Lufthansa executive and I learned a few things:
* Despite the internal resistance to Premium Economy, it was the best revenue/margin utilization of the aircraft.
* First Class was an ever debate for the other reason. The total cost including dedicated lavatories and galleys. Back then, it was revealed that four seats was maximum.
* Swiss is always different due to the captive market around greater Zurich who are both loyal and willing to spend.
The "customer choices" of seven business classes options is nothing but an up-sell. Has nothing to do with our wishes. It's all about revenue management.
My wife said she would never want to sit next to me in the double seat in F. Who decides content on the screen? Even my five-year old son I wouldn't want next to me for that reason.
It's classical Lufthansa. Overthinking, overengineering, inside-out perspective.
Actually alot of those 747-*'s are pretty new planes. They easily get another 25-30 years from them and in my opinion its an opportunity to pull ton of business away from other transatlantic premium products from other airlines. They are the only airline flying the 747 which is, in my opinion, by far the best flying experience in the world. Whether up in the nose or on the upper deck - nothing quite feels like...
Actually alot of those 747-*'s are pretty new planes. They easily get another 25-30 years from them and in my opinion its an opportunity to pull ton of business away from other transatlantic premium products from other airlines. They are the only airline flying the 747 which is, in my opinion, by far the best flying experience in the world. Whether up in the nose or on the upper deck - nothing quite feels like the 747. The A 380 feels like a bus in comparison. I for one hope that Lufthansa keeps them in the sky as long as possible.
Personally, I wish they'd just keep their fantastic current business class product for another 10-20 years.
They should just copy what Korean Air does to its 748 and it would be 10000 better
Sounds ridiculous. Personally I like their first class seats - they need to upgrade TV, that's for sure, as it's tiny and low definition. Business class seats should be changed completely.
"German Engineering" shifted into low gear.
Thompson Aerospace (the seat manufacturer for Allegris) isn't excatly German...
For that, LH would have to go with Recaro instead.
At this point by the time LH gets a new Business class we will be in sleep pods with feeding tubes headed for a flight to Venus.
Not my lane, but Allegris sounds like an antihistamine. "Ask your doctor about it today."
Yeah, it reminds me of Allegra antihistamine pills.
This customer does not believe a word of LH PR-speak when they say Allegris business offers “choice”. Yeah, choice to charge you more for some seats. The only people who have choice are the first handful who book - everyone else could end up with a config they don’t like. I love reverse herringbone because mostly every seat is exactly the same, and practically it makes no difference when you book, you are guaranteed a...
This customer does not believe a word of LH PR-speak when they say Allegris business offers “choice”. Yeah, choice to charge you more for some seats. The only people who have choice are the first handful who book - everyone else could end up with a config they don’t like. I love reverse herringbone because mostly every seat is exactly the same, and practically it makes no difference when you book, you are guaranteed a certain experience.
Swiss are adopting the same stupid seat system albeit in a different colour. As for First, what a joke. Couple travelling together have a choice of a seat either side of the aircraft with a wall in the middle, or a claustrophobic box in the centre, with one having climb over the other. Dumbest thing I have seen ever, what committee decides this nonsense.
We bailed on LH group years ago, The Swiss seats are like sleeping on a narrow plank of wood, and LH still has mostly tight twos on the side, more night time clambering. As previous poster noted, just put in a quality reverse herring bone, or a Q Suite variation, and we will all be happy. It’s not brain surgery.
Air India seems to have better planning nowadays, looking at their planes
Lol so funny people abusing LH for going 3.5 in First class. People crying coz they won't be able to fly LH first class anymore as no seats would be available for redemption. Poor Lucky who flies everywhere in LH first needs to think about a new strategy to fly in First in LH.
Not surprising from the airline of a country that is complicit in its support for Genocide in Gaza
I've seen plenty of stupid comments on the internet and this one is up there near the very top.
Here we go.......
Welcome to the world of German Stupidity it knows no boundaries
Lufthansa is currently reliably filling its old abysmal business class without having to discount the tickets. They’d be stupid to now rush the new, less dense business class. It would only increase CAPEX while reducing total revenue.
My comments is very simple, Too many chiefs and not enough Indians.
Luthansa and is ideas now too old and too slow.
Where has the german efficiency and knowhow gone to.
Sounds like an allergy medication.
The article makes a most sensible suggestion. Ther have been many innovations in the last seven years. Plus: they should have focused on Airbus and not Boeing... Who wants a 777x and then fly 10 abreast. Torture.
For the business class, they try to emulate the concept of Swiss, which is horrible.
Oh Lufthansa... What have you done?
Plus: they should have focused on Airbus and not Boeing... Who wants a 777x and then fly 10 abreast.
1) that makes zero sense when viewed from the perspective of the airlines: they'd WANT the extra seat per row.
2) Airbus wouldn't have gotten the A350 certified for 10abreast, and be carving out the walls to make that configuration more attractive to mainstream airlines; if they didn't.
Well paid management not doing their job, and slowly, at that, in this cabin renewal scenario.
Even better, the current eco and footsie biz seats are painful for passengers.
The basics, ladies, and gentlemen. That includes jobs being terminated if training and supervision don’t create change in a timely manner.
How come the A380 is not the flagship aircraft?
They originally planned to discard it, and had already done so for several. They brought it back after being surprised by the speed of the post-pandemic traffic recovery.
The former and famous CEO of Qatar is now ready and free to take over LH CEO's Mr. Spohr job...
And I wouldn't be surprised if he would be able to install a new Business and First within short time...:-)
Quite similar pattern to the plan of opening the new airport at Berlin
I think the cause of the problem is the unavailability of the 77X, in which they initially wanted to put Allegris (if memory serves me right). Now, with the 77X further out on the horizon, and the existing product being seriously outdated, they seem to start desperately think about retrofitting their existing fleet.
But I agree that the product itself is not well thought out at all. The 3.5 seat First Class is a...
I think the cause of the problem is the unavailability of the 77X, in which they initially wanted to put Allegris (if memory serves me right). Now, with the 77X further out on the horizon, and the existing product being seriously outdated, they seem to start desperately think about retrofitting their existing fleet.
But I agree that the product itself is not well thought out at all. The 3.5 seat First Class is a joke, and the 7-variants-business class is a manifest of corporate greed, but not something which is easily manageable. From that point of view going back to the drawing board, or simply using a version of the existing excellent business and first class seats available seems the more reasonable way to go.
Just ditch this and install the same reverse herringbone seats that everyone else has been installing over the past 10 years. Why is Lufthansa making this so needlessly complicated?
Casue they're German, emperors of needless over-engineering and agonizingly slow execution
As a German friend of mine one said, "An inherent Teutonic demand for perfection"
SKYTRAX: 5 stars!
Yeah.....
How did they not consider the 747 configuration issue? The PM for that project has got to be completely incompetent, or the management team for allowing this to go forward with such an obvious flaw. Changing the weight balance of an aircraft is a basic thing to consider. They didn't or couldn't figure this out in the beginning of the RFP/design process?
Good competent PMs are the exception, certainly not the rule.
In the end, it doesn't matter what LH plans to do. What matters is what LH is doing right now in all aspects of product and service. For customer service reasons, I haven't flown on an LH Group flight in 10 years and won't unless there's absolutely no alternative. LH will do fine without me.
Not surprised at all. Emblematic of the state Germany and much of its industry is in. The country produces some of the most incompetent management talent anywhere in the world.
Leo Apotheker (the guy who crashed HP/Palm)
Thorsten Heins (the guy who buried BlackBerry)
...
Your remark on the quality of German management is unfortunately spot on. The only thing they are truly good at is increasing their salary referring to the international market, and that they could earn so much more somewhere else. The problem in their thinking is: no S&P 500 company in their right mind would take them.
I'm sure the executives are all patting themselves on the back and happy with how great a job they did on those seats.
Now on to the next task of the day, cut jobs since the executives earned their bonuses...
Since Germany does not have republican politicians and maga imbeciles in control, hopefully someone will demand accountability.
This is very unusual for LH. Generally their planning for a cabin refresh has been well thought out and executed in a timely manner. Makes me wonder if they just got such a great price they are balking at a total reset of the project.
No, they just don't want this new business class. Less density, less seats, less revenue. Currently they don't have any problems filling their old abysmal business class. They don't even need to discount it. So they're thinking: Why even introduce a new seat? SkyTrax 5* could be achieved without actually installing these seats.
"This is very unusual for LH. Generally their planning for a cabin refresh has been well thought out and executed in a timely manner."
You must be new here.
How did LH's retrofit to the current product go back in 2012-14?
All Problems at Lufthansa have one name: Carsten Spohr
They probably think the 747 refresh plan is genius. Imagine the seat fees they can charge for the new lower level J seats vs old upper deck ones!
I imagine they have invested so much money and time in this its too late to pull out.
What's that saying? "Too big to fail"?
The 7 different business seats in Allegris just seems so needlessly complicated. Why didn't they just go for something similar to Qsuite which has been so well regarded since about... 2017??
Lmaaaaooooo, nearly every post about LH is just how laughably bad the airline is at being an airline. Under many of those posts I say - LH is not a serious company. And yet, somehow, with every new post and story LH somehow manages to become an even more not serious company.
For real, assume you wanted to intentionally sabotage an airline and damage both the business and national brand - you likely would 1) offer an uncompetitive product; 2) make up excuses for not introducing a new one despite customer feedback; 3) abandon long-term planning or vision; 4) abandon seeking financial synergies and efficiencies via fleet, operate all kinds of useless brandless subsidiaries; 5) regularly overbook; 6) lose luggage and not seek to improve; 7) operate...
For real, assume you wanted to intentionally sabotage an airline and damage both the business and national brand - you likely would 1) offer an uncompetitive product; 2) make up excuses for not introducing a new one despite customer feedback; 3) abandon long-term planning or vision; 4) abandon seeking financial synergies and efficiencies via fleet, operate all kinds of useless brandless subsidiaries; 5) regularly overbook; 6) lose luggage and not seek to improve; 7) operate a 2009-style website in 2023; 8) have at best a consistently mediocre customer service, at worst non-existent/outright bad.
These are some of the things LH has been consistently doing for years now - while supposedly being run as a serious airline by 'skilled' executives who obviously as C-suite make tons of cash. Hard to make this up.
Well, Lufthansa is a serious company. They're making good money and don't have any issues filling their old, abysmal business class without even having to discount it. So of course their motivation to introduce a new costly product with less seat density isn't exactly their priority.
Dig out your Iphone 7 to go with the cutting edge 2017 design. What a shame
Ow no, by now they even lost their most reliable cheerleader in Ben!
They should just get an off the shelf product and modify it slightly, the various configurations don't even make sense and are super confusing. Let alone the crazy weight issues, this is just ridiculous.
Around 10yrs ago LH had the seat+bed First class upstairs on the 747. I'd have modified that concept, slapped a door to that seat, upped the tech and called it a day.
Despite having tried the seats during the Allegris-tour earlier this summer, i doubt this product will see the light of day on all planes.
Yes, LH needs to scratch this and start afresh. Meanwhile AF has managed to introduced their new seats...
Around 10yrs ago LH had the seat+bed First class upstairs on the 747. I'd have modified that concept, slapped a door to that seat, upped the tech and called it a day.
Despite having tried the seats during the Allegris-tour earlier this summer, i doubt this product will see the light of day on all planes.
Yes, LH needs to scratch this and start afresh. Meanwhile AF has managed to introduced their new seats without much ado. This is more than embarassing. BER airport anyone?
I'm sure this all must have been planned out by the same folks that did Berlin's new airport.
It’s called the Brandenburg effect!
The Stuttgart station renovation is almost making Brandenburg look like a well planned project.
Skytrax 5 star (4-star now) baby!!!!