Lufthansa is in the process of rolling out its new Allegris business class. The first jet with these interiors started flying as of several weeks ago, and it’s certainly an exciting development for the airline.
Lufthansa has heavily marketed how its new Allegris business class product is all about choice, and that the airline offers at least five different business class seating options. The catch is that a majority of these seats are actually buy-up options, so they’ll cost you extra if you just book a standard business class ticket.
We now have official details about which seats can be assigned for free, and which will come at an extra cost.
In this post:
How Lufthansa will charge for business class seats
I had the chance to take one of the first Lufthansa Airbus A350 Allegris business class flights. As I wrote about, the product generally exceeded my expectations, though I couldn’t help but notice the massive difference in quality between the various seats in the configuration.
We know that Lufthansa’s strategy with the new Allegris business class is to charge extra for assigning many types of seats. So far, the airline hasn’t yet started charging for assigning specific seats, simply because the Allegris equipped planes haven’t reliably been flying any route. That’s expected to change in the coming weeks.
Even ahead of beginning to charge for seats, Lufthansa has revealed which seats will cost extra, and which passengers can assign each type of seat for free (as flagged by oliver2002). I’ll provide the breakdown of how many of the 38 seats are included in each category, based on the A350-900 cabin.
Here’s what we can expect, going from the least premium seats to the most premium seats:
- The classic seats (12 of 38 seats), which are the standard seats closest to the aisle, can be assigned in advance by all passengers
- The privacy seats (10 of 38 seats), which are the “true” window seats that offer extra privacy, are free for Miles & More HON Circle and Senator members and their companions, as well as passengers booked on “Business Flex” fares
- The extra space seats (four of 38 seats), which are the middle “throne” seats that offer a lot of space, are free for Miles & More HON Circle and Senator members and their companions
- The extra long bed seats (four of 38 seats), which are select middle seats with extra long beds behind the extra space seats, are free for Miles & More HON Circle members and their companions
- The first row suites (eight of 38 seats), which are the super spacious seats with doors in the first row of each cabin, are available at an extra cost for all passengers
In the immediate future, there will be no opportunities to redeem miles or upgrade vouchers to secure any premium seats. However, that could change in the future.
Now, what remains to be seen is how much extra the above seats will cost, when assigning in advance. The cost is expected to be based on the length of the flight and exact seat, so we should start to learn more details in the coming weeks. As of now we simply know which seats will cost extra, and the rough hierarchy, but not the actual numbers.
Lufthansa will open seats 30 hours in advance
What happens if passengers don’t pay to assign seats in advance? Lufthansa’s webpage about Allegris business class suggests that passengers will be able to assign any open seats once online check-in opens, generally 30 hours before departure:
Whether it’s a window or aisle seat, a seat with more legroom or the Business Class Suite, Lufthansa is offering your customers the option of selecting their desired seat in advance. With Lufthansa Allegris, the usual booking and handling process for advanced seat reservation (ASR) remains unchanged. As soon as check-in for the flight begins (generally 30 hours before departure), passengers in all travel classes can of course still select one of the remaining seats.
If that’s in fact true, and all seats (including the first row suites) can be assigned 30 hours out, that should make for a great experience for some passengers, and also creates a very strong incentive to check-in the extra second that you can.
My take on Lufthansa’s Allegris pricing approach
As you can see above, the average business class passenger can assign fewer than one-third of Lufthansa’s Allegris business class seats at no extra cost. Miles & More elite members can assign more seats at no extra cost, but the front row business class suites are only available for purchase, and aren’t given to anyone for free.
With that in mind, a few thoughts:
- It’s disappointing to think that even having the privilege of looking out the window comes at an extra cost in Allegris business class
- Those who don’t want to pay extra for assigning seats in Allegris business class are going to find themselves typically not being able to assign a seat in advance, and/or may also have issues assigning seats next to a travel companion
- I guess we can’t be too judgmental of the concept of charging for business class seat assignments, given that this is something that British Airways has done for years, and which Air France-KLM have adapted as well
- Lufthansa’s first row suites in Allegris business class are truly phenomenal, and I’m curious to see what pricing is like, because it might just be the best business class hard product across the Atlantic (and certainly competes favorably with many of the “business class plus” products)
Bottom line
While Lufthansa hasn’t yet started charging for assigning specific Allegris business class seats, the airline has revealed which seats will cost extra, and which seats elite members will be able to assign at no extra cost.
Interestingly, even Lufthansa’s top tier HON Circle members won’t be able to assign the front row suites on a complimentary basis. Now the big question is just what pricing will be like…
What do you make of Lufthansa’s approach to Allegris business class pricing?
Given the prices charged for business class seats generally, it appears beyond greedy to charge extra for particular seats. Bottom line: if LH wants to squeeze you even more, there are plenty of alternatives on most routes!
The big question is the cost. For a long flight if it is not much more it may be worth it, BUT in some situations people may just wait and see where they are assigned. If one of the "nicer" seats is the only option or they are "randomly" assigned it then may be okay. If traveling alone I prefer the single seat but with others I would take the center two.
“I guess we can’t be too judgmental of the concept of charging for business class seat assignments, given that this is something that British Airways has done for years, and which Air France-KLM have adapted as well”
Of course we can. And it’s a low blow bringing in British Airways here because you’re not comparing like for like. Oneworld Emerald (and Sapphire with minimal exception) members can select seats free of charge on BA, something...
“I guess we can’t be too judgmental of the concept of charging for business class seat assignments, given that this is something that British Airways has done for years, and which Air France-KLM have adapted as well”
Of course we can. And it’s a low blow bringing in British Airways here because you’re not comparing like for like. Oneworld Emerald (and Sapphire with minimal exception) members can select seats free of charge on BA, something that Lufthansa and the wider group do not offer Star Alliance Gold members.
The idea of charging the going price and then not allowing you any available seat in business class will just cause me to go to another carrier.
I am questioning the economics of this new LH Business Class after seeing the layout. This configuration has 20 Business Class seats between door 1 and 2, compared to other configurations (i.e. AF, CX, CI, SQ) that can install 28-32 seats between door 1 and 2 (in order to compare apple to apple, I am looking at number of seats between door 1 and 2 without any lavatories installed in that space). That's 50% fewer...
I am questioning the economics of this new LH Business Class after seeing the layout. This configuration has 20 Business Class seats between door 1 and 2, compared to other configurations (i.e. AF, CX, CI, SQ) that can install 28-32 seats between door 1 and 2 (in order to compare apple to apple, I am looking at number of seats between door 1 and 2 without any lavatories installed in that space). That's 50% fewer seats for LH. I see a lot of dead space in this LH product. Less passenger density, in theory, is a positive for customers; however, does it really make that much customer experience difference to justify economically? There are a lot of measurable metrics that contribute to the overall customers' experience, and I doubt the trade-off here is making any sense. Thus, in my humble opinion, LH has to create more opportunities to make up the "difference" economically - hence charging for seats.
-I strongly AGREE with Member 747-400...We flew the A380 Business Class product in its' first year of service and never booked again. We even upgraded(luckily) to First Class on the way home that trip.
-We were fortunate to have flown LH 747's to FRA and BKK since 1999 yearly until First Class reward bookings became nearly imposible.
-The differences in aesthetic design, functionality. comfort and service was vast! It reminded me of postwar...
-I strongly AGREE with Member 747-400...We flew the A380 Business Class product in its' first year of service and never booked again. We even upgraded(luckily) to First Class on the way home that trip.
-We were fortunate to have flown LH 747's to FRA and BKK since 1999 yearly until First Class reward bookings became nearly imposible.
-The differences in aesthetic design, functionality. comfort and service was vast! It reminded me of postwar apartments in Hamburg...built with similar materials from Bauhaus construction, but with the visuals, comforts and aesthetics of a three story. penitentiary.
As you've mentioned, BA has been charging for advanced seat selection in J for years. While I still hate the concept of paying even more to select a seat in Business, I actually don't mind it in this fashion. While BA charges extra for every seat even though they're virtually all the same, at least the seats LH is charging more for actually have more benefits.
It's better than BA, but that's not exactly a high standard either.
BA allows free selection to OneWorld elites which in itself adds value to OneWorld elite status. No such luck with LH Group!
The saga of Lufthansa should truly be the subject of a Harvard Business Review case study.
I wonder whether this will be reflected at Swiss as well.
Admitting that there are so many types of seats is just... as someone mentioned, made by some Büroleute, not tested in practice.
Nickel-and-diming premium cabin passengers is the lowest of the low, real Air Asia X stuff. How's about choosing a configuration in which every seat is equally desirable in terms of space and privacy, and drop the tacky "revenue maximisation"?
First of All as a regular Business Class traveller we are already paying xtra xtra bucks for the business class tickets on the above they are charging for xtra room seats it is just like paying xtra in Economy seats for an xtra leg room !!! I don’t think it is very rare to charge xtra for business class seats !!! Last week I flew from BLR/LHR via Munich on A350-900 it was not bad...
First of All as a regular Business Class traveller we are already paying xtra xtra bucks for the business class tickets on the above they are charging for xtra room seats it is just like paying xtra in Economy seats for an xtra leg room !!! I don’t think it is very rare to charge xtra for business class seats !!! Last week I flew from BLR/LHR via Munich on A350-900 it was not bad but Munich to LHR A320Neo was horrible thr us no Business Class seats for that 2hrs flite only advantage was seating in one of those vry front row seats tht is not @ll justified plus the transfer time in Munich to LHR is only 1hr transfer of Baggage never took place my baggage never arrived with me it came only instead of of 10am I got it @ 10pm… Vry Sad Xsperience even though flying in Business Class with a Priority Baggage Tag but still got messed up !!!
Bear in mind anyone with OW sapphire and above - two J long haul returns a year on BA - gets free BA seat selection anywhere in the cabin, so it’s not quite true that BA charge for seats. It’s certainly NOT a war crime to charge for seats, plenty of competition available, but the LH approach is laughably bonkers and over complicated IMO.
Just took YVR‐MUC flight. Worst business class flight.... I only ate a couple of bites as dinner was soooo very bland. Then found out that LH does not consider 9 hr overnight flight as "long haul". So no slippers, no seat bed pad.... really!!
But what so great about Allegris. It won't be until 2027 to convert majority of planed. But even so, they are sooooo out of date compared to QSuites, the Room,...
Just took YVR‐MUC flight. Worst business class flight.... I only ate a couple of bites as dinner was soooo very bland. Then found out that LH does not consider 9 hr overnight flight as "long haul". So no slippers, no seat bed pad.... really!!
But what so great about Allegris. It won't be until 2027 to convert majority of planed. But even so, they are sooooo out of date compared to QSuites, the Room, Starlux in terms of hard and soft product.
Ben, sorry to say, your German heritage bias taints your "praises" of LH group. I won't fly LH again. I am sure they have dragged down the service levels of Swiss and Austrian Air.
I am a degree less critical about this product than most commenters here, but the dumbest thing about it is that I counted 24 "special" seats compared to 12 standard seats. Every two rows will have two true window seats, one throne seat, and one extra legroom seat while only having three standard seats. 4 extra charge seats for every three standard seats. When the extra leg room seat is monetized, how are you supposed...
I am a degree less critical about this product than most commenters here, but the dumbest thing about it is that I counted 24 "special" seats compared to 12 standard seats. Every two rows will have two true window seats, one throne seat, and one extra legroom seat while only having three standard seats. 4 extra charge seats for every three standard seats. When the extra leg room seat is monetized, how are you supposed to sit next to a partner you are traveling with?
For what it's worth, the "premium" seats look a lot more comfortable than your standard staggered seats, including Q Suites. The seats most of us will fly in are thoroughly unexceptional, would have been a good product in 2017, but considering the fleet probably won't be fully configured until 2028 at the earliest, almost half the cabin is going to be obsolete at time of introduction.
On the one hand - I will say any business really driving any innovation goes through a phase where everyone says "WTF" to their product in some way. So I won't totally discount that the concept of getting folks to pay more for aspects of business class could catch on (lounge access, other premium aspects, etc. as others are doing).
HOWEVER, charging a premium (status aside) for "not terrible" seats and creating such a...
On the one hand - I will say any business really driving any innovation goes through a phase where everyone says "WTF" to their product in some way. So I won't totally discount that the concept of getting folks to pay more for aspects of business class could catch on (lounge access, other premium aspects, etc. as others are doing).
HOWEVER, charging a premium (status aside) for "not terrible" seats and creating such a confusing product that you need to read a travel blog, feels like the ultimate example of an overly analyzed / "corporatized" process where they felt they could revenue maximize choice in a theoretical world but did not test in reality. Lufthansa does not currently execute at the level where I would ever pay a penny extra for a more "premium" experience.
Having flown LH First recently - while the dedicated terminal is nice, the food (beautiful caviar service aside) was worse and more inedible than dishes I've had on United. That is atrocious. Their current business class has been uncompetitive and terrible for years and now they're introducing a new terrible concept except for a few lucky folks per flight.
Atrocious. How can LH actually launch this mishmash product for a premium cabin? It's past time to downgrade their star rating.
I'm Star Alliance Gold. Will there be any seat assignment benefits like they give M&M members?
Doubtful. They don't even allow basic seat assignments in Y for *A G.
My first LH C class flight was a shocker, I had not checked and it was TATL 2-2-2. My next C flight was during a preplanned strike. LH was very proud to be operating but my special meal was not loaded and the non alcoholic drinks were basically flat water and nothing else. I tried to get an Apple Shorle? and they did not have apple juice and did not have water with CO.
My third LH flight C class did not happen and likely will not happen.
Probably good they didn't have any water with carbon monoxide.
bunch of crap... these seats are modified United Polaris seats... and Lufthansa in business is no better than United, not worth the bother or extra cost
I think this means that the dominant Allegris strategy is to just avoid selecting a seat altogether at time of booking and assume that the 12 free classic seats will all be selected by the time of check in, so you will end up with one of the superior options.
Agreed! If you aren't willing to pay, I see no value in selecting a seat early as the worst that can happen is you're still stuck in a standard seat, but you could potentially end up in something much better.
Does anyone else think that the Allegris cabin finishes are exceptionally bland and dated for a supposedly state-of-the-art seat? Honestly, the color palette, textures, and fabrics are reminiscent of the old PM-UA coffin-class business class (8 abreast on 777). This really lets down an otherwise impressive product.
yup, hate the color, looks so plastic...... i think the swiss version looks more welcoming
All the anticipation for something akin to waiting for that Mercedes S-Class, but then get picked up in a Lincoln towncar....lol, sure the tech is great and modern, but snooze in regards to anything sexy or really elegant. Practical and pragmatic, guess that's also on-brand for the national carrier.
The ENTIRE airline Group is outdated!
To me still hard to understand, how people around the globe are still willing to fly ANY airline that has to do with one of the most corrupt Airline-Groups in the world!?
I stopped being loyal to LH Group when the changes to Miles & More that came into force in January were announced. As Michael O'Leary, CEO of Ryanair, said, "If you want something loyal, buy a dog".
I now buy plane tickets based solely on TOTAL price. If that's LH Group, fine. If not, it's tschüss Lufthansa, bonjour AirFrance/KLM.
Totally agree. I understood the obvious in Covid time when few airlines literally screwed me regarding rebooking/refund etc. I was gold with BA and Senator with LH for years - with recent changes ( which are far worse ) I can't be bothered. I fly with any decent airline - based on price and schedule only.
Wait.
Does this mean that only M+M elites can get window seats?
If so...LOL!
No, only M&M elites can get them for free until OLCI opens. Just like on BA where only elites can get the window seats for free until OLCI opens. Nothing new here, nothing that is not already happening at other carriers, Lufthansa is just being criticised for it.
You’re missing a major point; it’s not just BA elites, it’s OneWorld elites! LH offers no such thing to Star Alliance elites!
I'm still not understanding why you said the seats are revolutionary and not evolutionary. It seems like they are pretty similar to business class seats out there plus some upgraded tech. That sounds evolutionary to me.
The layout, and variations in seat set up.
Honestly, despite having not flown them, I would say this new J cabin is neither of those things at all. The staggered throne-2-throne seat setup has been around on multiple airlines for years, on both narrow- and wide-body planes. And the whole "extra room at the bulkhead" isn't a design feature so much as it is properly using bulkhead space that already exists and was simply added as more leg room for people sleeping -...
Honestly, despite having not flown them, I would say this new J cabin is neither of those things at all. The staggered throne-2-throne seat setup has been around on multiple airlines for years, on both narrow- and wide-body planes. And the whole "extra room at the bulkhead" isn't a design feature so much as it is properly using bulkhead space that already exists and was simply added as more leg room for people sleeping - like exists/existed on Singapore's many aircraft. It's not new by any stretch of the imagination. And updated "tech" in the form of wireless charging has been incorporated by a handful of other carriers. So this is all very much catch-up. Better than some carriers, for sure, but it does not at all catapult LH to some upper echelon of J. If anything, they're slightly above the new norm.
Yeah as much as some trolls on this page like to whine that Ben biased he's just not. So if his expectations were exceeded I feel like there is a reason. But I'm just still not clear what the reason is. I hope he'll clarify at some point.
Not all revolutions are good ones. The window seats, throne seats, and front row seats look objectively excellent though. Just sucks how inconsistent LH J is going to be, especially considering their laughably slow rollouts and how the A380 is going to have a totally different (Dated) product despite being their flagship aircraft out of Munich
As best I can tell, here are the seats as shown in the seat map:
- The classic seats (12 of 38 seats): 4C, 4D, 4H, 6C, 6G, 6H, 10C, 10D, 10H, 12C, 12G, 12H.
- The privacy seats (10 of 38 seats): 3A, 3K, 5A, 5K, 7A, 7K, 9A, 9K, 11A, 11K.
- The extra space seats (four of 38 seats): 3F, 5F, 9F, 11F
- The extra long bed seats...
As best I can tell, here are the seats as shown in the seat map:
- The classic seats (12 of 38 seats): 4C, 4D, 4H, 6C, 6G, 6H, 10C, 10D, 10H, 12C, 12G, 12H.
- The privacy seats (10 of 38 seats): 3A, 3K, 5A, 5K, 7A, 7K, 9A, 9K, 11A, 11K.
- The extra space seats (four of 38 seats): 3F, 5F, 9F, 11F
- The extra long bed seats (four of 38 seats): 4G, 6D, 10G, 12D (these are the middle seats with the centre seat in front’s non-exit side)
The first row suites (eight of 38 seats): 2A, 2D, 2G, 2K, 8A, 8D, 8G, 8K.
You may remember there were seven configurations marketed. As best I can tell, the remaining two are:
- Privacy seat with baby: 7A, 7K
- Double seat: 6D, 6G, 12D, 12G
I have the seating map "Colored".
Please check this article with Google Translate.
https://frequentflyer.no/2024/05/29/lufthansas-salg-av-allegris-setereservasjoner-hva-du-trenger-a-vite/#google_vignette
> The extra long bed seats (four of 38 seats), which are the middle seats on the right side with extra long beds
I might be mistaken, but from the seat map I would expect seats 4G, 6D, 10G and 12D to be the extra long bed and not all on the right side. The extra space should be under closed side of the throne seats.
That's how I read it after process of elimination of other types.
It's one thing to charge a fee for a "business plus" type product that makes sense, but let's not minimize what BA has been doing. Charging for seat selection for paying business class customers should be considered a war crime. It's absolutely ridiculous and we shouldn't go a minute without reminding them as such.
I get it - some C seats are preferable just as some Y seats are. Y seats are cheap, so it is easy to tell a buyer of a cheap seat that they get a less preferred seat.
Telling someone who has spent major coin on C, however, that he or she has to settle for a less preferred seat strikes me as walking into a customer relations thicket.
It would be really helpful if you could color code the different types of seats. Some (like the privacy seats) are obvious to discern but finding the others can take some time:-(
I agree, I still can't figure out what seats are these - "The extra long bed seats (four of 38 seats), which are the middle seats on the right side with extra long beds,..."
I think that is a typo, I think the extra long beds are the seats behind the throne seats where the feet cubby extends into where the aisle is blocked on either side of the throne seat
Then they look after those customers in elite tiers who travel frequently and don’t need to pay as that’s a benefit of loyalty. They get the opportunity to select their preferred seats.
EXACTLY, this is what the chorus of whining from the bloggers fail to mention, that their readership base is not the people that the seat selection fees are trying to serve, which are the elite flyers regularly buying full fare J tickets. Those customers love the seat selection fee, it keep the good seats free for themselves
100% I don't fly LH because I don't think they are at all competitive when it comes to soft or hard product TATL - or anywhere they fly. Crummy food and lackluster service on top of a horrible seat config. And this new product and its silly pricing does nothing to entice me to change habits. As such, I'm not their target customer.
But neither are the majority of miles twerps (bloggers and readers) bemoaning...
100% I don't fly LH because I don't think they are at all competitive when it comes to soft or hard product TATL - or anywhere they fly. Crummy food and lackluster service on top of a horrible seat config. And this new product and its silly pricing does nothing to entice me to change habits. As such, I'm not their target customer.
But neither are the majority of miles twerps (bloggers and readers) bemoaning the fact that their CC sign-up bonus no longer gets them the "$10,000 in travel for $400" tagline and hashtag for their TikToks or Instagrams or whatever they prefer. I don't like airlines at all, but they're in the business of making money, not giving things away. I'll vote with my wallet but can't fault LH for playing the game.
Who do you fly in paid F and J.? I'm curious, and why that carrier?
@Jordan: To whom are you replying/asking the question?