Next spring, Delta Air Lines will be introducing its first-ever daytime eastbound transatlantic flight. People either love or hate these kinds of flights, so it’s nice to see this option.
In this post:
Delta’s new daytime eastbound transatlantic flight
As flagged by @IshrionA, Delta will be adding a third daily flight between New York (JFK) and Paris (CDG) as of March 31, 2024. This new frequency will operate with the following schedule:
DL266 New York to Paris departing 8:30AM arriving 10:00PM
DL267 Paris to New York departing 9:30AM arriving 11:50AM
The 3,635 mile flight is blocked at 7hr30min eastbound and 8hr20min westbound. Delta will use a Boeing 767-400 for the route, featuring 238 seats. This includes 34 business class seats, 20 premium economy seats, 28 extra legroom economy seats, and 156 economy class seats.
What makes this new service most interesting is that it’s a daytime transatlantic flight in the eastbound direction. While a few airlines operate these kinds of flights, they make up a tiny percentage of overall service.
This is also a pretty big milestone for Delta, as it’s the first time that the Atlanta-based carrier has ever operated a flight like this. Delta’s joint venture partners Air France and Virgin Atlantic have operated daytime flights from New York to Paris and London (respectively), but this will be the first such flight on Delta metal. Furthermore, American and United have operated several eastbound transatlantic daytime flights, so Delta is the last of the “big three” carriers to operate such service.
I love these kinds of daytime flights
People tend to have strong feelings about daytime eastbound transatlantic flights. I understand why some people don’t like them, which is that they “waste” a day, when you could instead fly overnight. However, personally I’m a huge fan of these flights:
- They’re so much better for jetlag and exhaustion, since you can get a proper night of sleep in a real bed
- You know your room will be ready when you arrive at the hotel, unlike when you land at 7AM, and then potentially have eight hours before check-in time
- If you’re able to get work done remotely online, there’s much less opportunity cost to the “wasted” day you spend flying, since you can stay productive above the clouds
So I’m a huge fan of these flights, though unfortunately don’t get to take them often. You mostly see these flights from Boston and New York, so they’re not very useful if you’re like me, and live in Miami. Furthermore, they’re not useful if you’re looking to connect beyond the European gateway (Paris, in this case), since there aren’t many flights departing after these arrivals.
Bottom line
Delta has plans to launch a daytime eastbound transatlantic flight as of late March 2024. The airline will fly a Boeing 767-400 daily from New York to Paris, complementing the carrier’s two other daily flights (plus all the flights of joint venture partner Air France).
Many of us are fans of these kinds of flights, so I’m sure some SkyTeam loyalists will be looking forward to this service.
What do you make of Delta’s new daytime flight to Paris?
I prefer daytime flights over red eyes as I can never sleep on a plane anyway.
Would love to see Delta or any USA airline offer direct / nonstop flights to Perth Australia which is within reach on a 787 or A350.
SFO, a United hub, is the closest US carrier hub to Perth and the mileage is considerably further than to Singapore, the longest flight that UA operates from SFO using the 787, UA's longest range aircraft.
The longest flight on a standard equipped A350-900 is SQ's LAX-SIN flight. Their longest flights are on reduced capacity A350s.
SFO-PER is slightly longer than PER-LHR, one of the longest 787 flights in the world right now.
SFO, a United hub, is the closest US carrier hub to Perth and the mileage is considerably further than to Singapore, the longest flight that UA operates from SFO using the 787, UA's longest range aircraft.
The longest flight on a standard equipped A350-900 is SQ's LAX-SIN flight. Their longest flights are on reduced capacity A350s.
SFO-PER is slightly longer than PER-LHR, one of the longest 787 flights in the world right now.
Even if the market was there, it is doubtful that any US airline can operationally support a nonstop route to Perth.
I wish they'd offer these ti more European destinations and out of Atlanta.
When did AF operate daytime JFK-CDG? Are you sure AF used to operate a daytime eastbound TATL?
767-the future is delta’s flying this joke of a widebody that most other carriers retired a long time ago
First, United also flies both the 767-400 and -300ER. They did the opposite of Delta - refurbished many of their 767-300ERs to a high premium configuration that one of UA's VPs specifically said on another site yesterday were to replace narrowbody 757s which he said were not competitive.
UA still flies 757s across the Atlantic including to continental Europe - something AA and DL do not do. UA now has an aircraft in the...
First, United also flies both the 767-400 and -300ER. They did the opposite of Delta - refurbished many of their 767-300ERs to a high premium configuration that one of UA's VPs specifically said on another site yesterday were to replace narrowbody 757s which he said were not competitive.
UA still flies 757s across the Atlantic including to continental Europe - something AA and DL do not do. UA now has an aircraft in the 767-300ER that has slightly more seats than B6 does on its A321NEOs w/ the smaller Mint cabin - but with Mint - but UA's seat costs on its high J 767-300ERs are the highest on any transatlantic aircraft. Other airlines get that same number of seats and have more coach seats which makes the entire aircraft - including business class - more efficient.
When UA has fully retired its 767 fleet and has a transatlantic fleet that is fully equipped w/ doors, your statement might be right but that your statement is not accurate based on current fleets or products.
Exactly why is it a "joke"...?
Many (coach) passengers prefer the 767, because it only has a 1-in-7 chance of a middle seat.
Always prefer the red eye, even for domestic, cross-country eastbound. One thing I love about overnight flights to Europe is how easy it is to land in the morning, spend a day in the natural light and fall alseep at a reasonable time. Daytime flight eastbound are always far worse for jet lag, imho, as it is often unreasonably late locally by the time I am settled in and sleepng. Long haul flights to S....
Always prefer the red eye, even for domestic, cross-country eastbound. One thing I love about overnight flights to Europe is how easy it is to land in the morning, spend a day in the natural light and fall alseep at a reasonable time. Daytime flight eastbound are always far worse for jet lag, imho, as it is often unreasonably late locally by the time I am settled in and sleepng. Long haul flights to S. Asia, Africa and Middle East cities where midnight to early morning arrivals are common are even more challenging, but I still strongly feel landing in the morning daylight is best for adapting to new time zones...
Are there really about 230 pax daily to take this flight to CDG to make this profitable from NYC? Hopefully, but questionable. Time will tell. Wake up early in NYC, go to the airport, fly 7.30hrs and then go to bed again, no thanks for me.
I think the market likely exists. There are 5 daytime flights from NYC to LHR, all with similar schedule challenges to connecting business.
Why the 767-400 as opposed to more updated equipment? How about an A350 or the 777.
Delta doesn't fly 777s any longer and currently, DL does not operate A350s into or out of JFK.
because, quite frankly, Delta along w/ every other airline that operates multiple fleets, knows whether their aircraft serve the purpose for which they are used. Multiple airlines have significant differences in the styles of its premium cabins, including Air France.
and let's also not forget that Delta has been far more aggressive in rolling out Premium Select than has any of its partners. And, as has been noted before, the 767 offers one of...
because, quite frankly, Delta along w/ every other airline that operates multiple fleets, knows whether their aircraft serve the purpose for which they are used. Multiple airlines have significant differences in the styles of its premium cabins, including Air France.
and let's also not forget that Delta has been far more aggressive in rolling out Premium Select than has any of its partners. And, as has been noted before, the 767 offers one of the most comfortable coach experiences in the sky.
If I am going to be in coach, I would far rather fly a Delta 767 than an Air France or KLM 787 in 9 abreast or 777 in 10 abreast.
Despite the fixation with having the newest and most modern aircraft or cabins, the reality is that Delta's 767s still generate profits in all cabins- if they didn't, DL would replace them.
And, as noted below, the 767-400 is the smallest and most cost effective aircraft in the combined DL/AF fleet that has a competitive business class product. If AF didn't think DL's products are competitive, they wouldn't have entered into and then renewed a joint venture agreement.
That is true for every other airline that operates multiple fleet types.
It is also worth noting on the subject of specific fleet types, how much noise Emirates is making about wanting an A380NEO - because they DEFINED their airline around the A380. Even though EK operates a very large fleet of 777s and will buy new generation 777s and A350s, virtually no other airline in the world has been as attached to a single fleet type as EK.
DL and every other airline will use the aircraft in their fleets based on the data that shows what revenue that aircraft can generate.
Chat GPT counter shoeguy’s simple true observation with a mult paragraph retort to the extent of engaging in a strange spin into Emirates 380neo references as well as Ek current and future fleet types to the point the post is insanely mockable!
Interesting points. I see the economics and potentially even the passenger comfort in economy on 767s but I just can’t help but think DL’s older planes have very sterile and tired interiors (ex-Delta One with doors). Perhaps it’s the current boom in aviation that’s making people overlook this to the point that even sub-par experience is good enough to bring the revenues, but I can’t help but think this can’t be good for business class...
Interesting points. I see the economics and potentially even the passenger comfort in economy on 767s but I just can’t help but think DL’s older planes have very sterile and tired interiors (ex-Delta One with doors). Perhaps it’s the current boom in aviation that’s making people overlook this to the point that even sub-par experience is good enough to bring the revenues, but I can’t help but think this can’t be good for business class yields especially if you view this vis a vis superior cabins such as Air France, Polaris, etc. Right now though even in the front of the plane there’s enough demand for everyone to be successful.
Once again, every airline that has multiple fleet types knows where it can deploy each fleet type. Delta does not use the 767-300ER - which arguably has a lower quality product in Delta One - in JFK exclusively to primary European destinations. Even in markets like JFK-FCO where DL has a 767-300ER flight right now, it is supplemented by flights on other aircraft including on the A330-300.
DL does use its 767-400s in premium...
Once again, every airline that has multiple fleet types knows where it can deploy each fleet type. Delta does not use the 767-300ER - which arguably has a lower quality product in Delta One - in JFK exclusively to primary European destinations. Even in markets like JFK-FCO where DL has a 767-300ER flight right now, it is supplemented by flights on other aircraft including on the A330-300.
DL does use its 767-400s in premium business markets so it clearly has the data to compare its business class performance to AA and UA's and knows what it can do with the products it has.
Let's also not forget that DL, for years, has been the most profitable airline across the Atlantic.
There simply is no large global airline that has a 100% consistent product across its fleet. Neither AA or UA have doors on their business class seat. DL has more aircraft that have their best business class product = on the A330-900 and A350 - than Air France does - and they do use them to Paris.
Much of your comment is about style and preference for it. That is subjective and not at all the way every person will see it.
The fixation with specific aircraft types is, quite frankly, juvenile. Airlines have enormous amounts of data that we don't.
And it still comes down to the fact that the 767-400 is the smallest aircraft in the combined AF/DL fleet which has a premium product.
Yeah the main difference is ecnonomy or business. I rather overnight with a bed. I hate going to the airport early in the am.
You don't often consider why. For example, you have not considered why there are mostly night flights to Europe and day flights on the return and why there are not day flights to Europe and/or the opposite.
Aircraft utilization is much better with the eastbound redeye followed by a short morning turn in Europe returning to the US that afternoon, which enables that airframe to start all over a few hours later that evening.
It is only useful for those originating in New York. As you said it wastes a day and a night. Once you arrive you are paying for that night in the hotel but you don't arrive until perhaps midnight based on the flight arriving at 10PM
Love these daytime flights. I used to take United’s IAD-LHR all the time when I was a 1K and then American’s daytime ORD-LHR flight. Both were super productive flights and then straight to bed on arrival. I was able to function well at work the next day in London. Sometimes when flying from West coast, I’d actually overnight at ORD or IAD just to take these flights the next morning — sleep was that precious!
I aswell love these daylight eastbound transatlantic flights, was on BA from BOS to LHR lat month, leaving BOS at 7.30am and arriving at LHR at 7.00pm which allows limited connections at LHR to mayor european cities like FRA, AMS,BRU,CPH. Yes, you get there late, but no jet lag, and mostly these flights are not fully booked.
Answered prayers. I even would go to JFK and overnight to eliminate jet lag like the morning departures to LHR do.
Answered prayers. I even would go to BOS and overnight to eliminate jet lag like the morning departures to LHR do.
I'd love to see more daytime flights to Europe. I understand the limitations to connecting traffic, but maybe the 321XLRs coming to US fleets might make these more viable for O&D.
As noted in the article, this is not very useful for people continuing on from Paris. That demographic would be best served by AF restoring the JFK-ORY flight.
ORY has canceled most domestic if not all France domestic flights. This flight seems timed for overnight flights to Southern Africa and to a lesser extent some Middle East/Asia flights that leave Paris at night
It's a shame that they can't time this to work with connections from 6am flights along the seaboard. 0830 is cutting it too close, especially if you are coming in on an RJ in the high 40s or the 50s at JFK T4. Adding the cost of a JFK airport hotel to a ticket makes Delta less competitive, especially since Delta's PE prices are generally higher than it's competitors across the Atlantic.
I have mixed feeling about these daytime eastbound transatlantic flights, which I've taken in the past. I liked not arriving in Europe bleary-eyed. But I found it difficult to go to sleep when according to my body clock it was only early evening. I tossed and turned in bed, sometimes lying awake 'til 4 or 5 a.m. Then fell into a deep sleep - just a few hours before needing to get-up. The result was that I felt exhausted all day.
100% agree. If anything, these flights make it harder for me with jetlag. After a red-eye, I can muscle through the day (and agree with the others saying a walk and sun helps), sleep well that first night, and I set an alarm for no later than 8am the next morning and I am on the time. Yes, the first day is rough but it's not too bad and I'm on the new time right...
100% agree. If anything, these flights make it harder for me with jetlag. After a red-eye, I can muscle through the day (and agree with the others saying a walk and sun helps), sleep well that first night, and I set an alarm for no later than 8am the next morning and I am on the time. Yes, the first day is rough but it's not too bad and I'm on the new time right after it. After a day time flight I just end up being tired the second day because I can't fall asleep that first night, since my body thinks it's ~5pm...
If I'm flying in business class, then I'd prefer overnight. With a flatbed seat, I can sleep reasonably well and getting to the city in the morning means I haven't wasted a day. Don't really need to check into the hotel early if I'm well rested and spend the day doing stuff.
OTOH, if I'm in economy, agree that short redeyes can be brutal. You don't sleep, and the next day all you want to...
If I'm flying in business class, then I'd prefer overnight. With a flatbed seat, I can sleep reasonably well and getting to the city in the morning means I haven't wasted a day. Don't really need to check into the hotel early if I'm well rested and spend the day doing stuff.
OTOH, if I'm in economy, agree that short redeyes can be brutal. You don't sleep, and the next day all you want to do is sleep anyway so you don't really save any time. Much better to fly out during the day, stay awake, and then sleep in a nice bed that night.
Regarding jet lag, personally I find the best way to cure jetlag (for me) is to be in the Sun. It resets my body clock. So arriving in the morning after a redeye (especially if I can sleep on a nice flatbed), and spending the day outside or in bright rooms gets me over the jet lag quite quickly. OTOH, taking a day flight and arriving at a hotel at night when your body still thinks it's daytime means I often can't sleep until basically early morning, which means I don't get much rest regardless of having an actual bed.
Absolutely agree with the sun. When I was a F/A we always would put on our "play clothes" and head out for as long as possible. OK sometimes a quick nap and shower but the sun exposure was vital. Business types may not be able to do this, sadly... and we didn't have a presentation to do in LHR, CDG, etc. Tokyo was a beast, however !
Given the enormous transatlantic travel demand right now and the size of the US-France market, it makes alot of sense that Delta and Air France - which jointly decided to operate the flight - are doing it now.
As for the past, I don't think either American or United have operated a daytime flight to continental Europe. The fact that Delta will be doing a daytime east transatlantic flight now isn't really related to what...
Given the enormous transatlantic travel demand right now and the size of the US-France market, it makes alot of sense that Delta and Air France - which jointly decided to operate the flight - are doing it now.
As for the past, I don't think either American or United have operated a daytime flight to continental Europe. The fact that Delta will be doing a daytime east transatlantic flight now isn't really related to what any other airline has done with London which is a different market and in a different time zone.
The reason why AF/DL are using the 767-400 is probably because it is the lowest cost and smallest aircraft that can support a competitive premium cabin product.
As for the return, it is currently slotted in between AF's 8.30 am CDG-JFK - the first in the market - and the 10.30 a.m. Other than at 9.30 - which DL will now fill - AF/DL will have nearly hourly flights mostly on the half hour from 8.30 a.m to 7.30 pm which is pretty impressive.
Eastbound, AF starts at 12.30 a.m. and then the next flight this year is at 4.30 pm so the new DL flight actually fits about halfway in between.
I am sure that DL will be watching the demand for this flight and if it works, they will consider something similar from ATL. DL has a number of flights that land by 7.30 a.m. so a 9 a.m. departure at the latest could be fed by many more flights than from JFK - although this flight will still get connections from other flights.
Chat GPT please write 5 paragraphs on the genius of Delta’s new daytime flight to Paris
chat GPT
please ignore the trolls that are fixated on people instead of facts and content
Chat GPT, why didn't you respond to @Roberto's request to write about the genius of Delta. You just rehashed what the blog said in a way that make you look knowledgeable.
You even make fluff up like the "size of the US-France market" as this flight schedule would mostly serve "New York-Paris market" because 8.30am works for O&D (a keyword you missed that would make you look smarter if used) or few Westcoast geeks who...
Chat GPT, why didn't you respond to @Roberto's request to write about the genius of Delta. You just rehashed what the blog said in a way that make you look knowledgeable.
You even make fluff up like the "size of the US-France market" as this flight schedule would mostly serve "New York-Paris market" because 8.30am works for O&D (a keyword you missed that would make you look smarter if used) or few Westcoast geeks who would rather fly hours longer from a redeye. Let's not forget the 10pm arrival would also work beyond Paris for geeks who would want to connect to Asia or South America, the wrong way. O&D or enthusiasts who would spend 36 hours to fly SEA-LAX-JFK-CDG-NRT rather than taking a 10 hour SEA-NRT flight.
Some readers see though your AI fluff Chat GPTim. You're doing it all the time so keep up the good fluff, it's still entertaining.
Ouch!!! (probably something living rent free in my head is banging my skull for seeing right through the fluff)
Chat GPT, or maybe Ben, please banish the moron Eskimo (and his alter egos Roberto, CecilO and David) as they have yet to make a post that isn't completely useless
@Erikoj, @ErikOJ, or @Erik OJ whatever your name.
Got you to read again, LOL.
All of a sudden chat GPTim seems to have a guardian.
They are calling you names further below, you gonna put up with that? I can’t believe you haven’t addressed such insolence!
The Delta 767-400ER features the updated Delta One cabin/suite, but the product, from A to Z is vastly inferior to the Air France business class product, specifically the newest version, now flying on some of the JFK-CDG turns, and eventually on all. Even the previous iteration of the AF business class product outshines DL.
Delta went from 1 to 3 daily on its own metal on JFK-CDG and has dumped capacity because it flows more...
The Delta 767-400ER features the updated Delta One cabin/suite, but the product, from A to Z is vastly inferior to the Air France business class product, specifically the newest version, now flying on some of the JFK-CDG turns, and eventually on all. Even the previous iteration of the AF business class product outshines DL.
Delta went from 1 to 3 daily on its own metal on JFK-CDG and has dumped capacity because it flows more connections over CDG than AMS these days and yes, the demand is strong, for now. Will all that continue? Maybe, maybe not.
@Shoeguy,
Now you’ve done it! Your gonna subject is to a multi paragraph AI response from Timothy now! If he had any control he’d just let u have the last word…. But he can’t!
UA did use to operate a daytime JFK-LHR flight, but that was of course many years ago. I flew on it twice...I loved the daylight service.
Also, check your facts (which you are usually excellent doing!)...the hourly operation cannot be described as between 8:30am to 7:30pm...it's mainly from 4:30pm to 12:30am (they only miss the 8:30pm slot)...it is indeed an immense schedule!
Well 1st of all you information is wrong. Back in 2008-2009 Delta flew day time flights to LHR from JFK because as a flight attendant I worked those flights. It left JFK around 8am and arrived in LHR around 9pm. It was an 18 hr layover.
I do not live in New York City but I would fly to Paris on Delta just because of this. I flew a Virgain Atlantic daytime UK bound flight from NY a few years ago and it was great. A little secret...I will not fly buysiness class on such flight because economy is so restful. Those with generous expense accounts will still do it.
Small correction: Around 2009, Delta had an eastbound LHR daytime flight. It only lasted about a year or so, but this CDG flight is definitely not the first for DL...
Indeed correct!!!
This is amazing news, as this is my primary route and despise the short red eye flight. I would much prefer flying Air France than Delta, hopefully that'll incentivize them to resume it as well?
Oh no, something living rent free in my head can't wait to say something good about this even most the fluff has nothing to do with it.
Amazing he hasn’t been conjured up yet at the mention of Delta! He’s got good self control today!
No doubt he would say it's the greatest invention in aviation history.
Ahh he has finally spoken, of course making sure he has the longest post… what a narcissist!
Wish they did this out of Atlanta , West Coast clients can go the night before .
Will not work for passengers connecting from the west coast. Not sure your jet lag theory will work for most passengers. Six times zones will take a few days to work through regardless of an evening arrival.
West Coast passengers already have the best options to Europe (your flights all land in the afternoon).
They already have multiple evening departures from the east coast to connect to instead.
Neither will there be any connections in Europe. But that's fine, these flights exist for O&D traffic. There's plenty other flights for connecting pax.
I'm a bit sceptical as to whether Paris can generate enough passengers for one destination in the US but I imagine Delta has some data on it.
Most people don’t want a half day when connecting to overnight flights such as Southern Africa and middle east
I used to prefer the daytime eastbound transatlantic flights... Nowadays I think I like the late evening / night departures - 10 PM or so. Spend a full day in New York, eat either in the city or at the lounge, skip the initial meal. It works great with Virgin's arrivals lounge if going to LHR - if you can get there by 11 AM or so, you can get a shower, late breakfast, and get to your hotel by 1:30 PM or so. Usually the room is ready, or there is a short wait.
The daylight JFK-CDG service has been tried (and failed) in the past, by both TWA and Air France (more recently). It will be strictly O&D (with some connections at JFK) on the Eastbound leg. If anyone can make it work, it is probably Delta.
The return timing is incorrect. DL 267 in April leaves at 9:30am from Paris. The plane will simply sit overnight and be the first aircraft out in the morning.
DL267 leaves CDG at 9:30am from Apr 1.
@ leol -- Oops, thank you! Sorry, my brain isn't working correctly today. I stupidly looked at the schedule in the other direction on March 31, and not April 1. My mistake!
Are you saying this is the only 767-400 that will be at CDG on delta? Assuming that’s not the case, the inbound flight to Paris will turn some other flight the next morning, and the late flight from Paris will be made up of some other airplane. There’s no way the plane will turn itself and just sit for that long.
The inbound flight from jfk which gets in at 10:30pm probably operates the 9:30 am flight the next morning back to JFK.
Delta has a late night flight from JFK that arrives CDG at 12 noon. That airplane probably sits 5 hours and makes up the 5:30 pm cdg-jfk flight. Seems like a long ish sit but UA and Aa do similar things at LHR.
@ Jason -- Sorry, I made a mistake! The schedule changes the next day in the other direction, and now makes more sense. Whoops.
Actually the flight that gets into cdg from jfk at noon is an airbus but there is a 9:30 am arrival from jfk. That’s probably it. Long sit but not uncommon