Historically, Delta Air Lines has shied away from ultra long haul flights, with a limited number of exceptions. However, that’s slowly starting to change. Delta recently launched flights to Hong Kong (HKG), and Riyadh (RUH) flights are expected soon as well.
A few months back, Delta revealed in a regulatory filing that it plans to launch yet another route to Asia. The airline has now shared internally that this route is in fact launching next year, and a formal announcement is expected next week.
In this post:
Delta confirms 2027 launch for flights to Manila, Philippines
In late October 2025, a Delta executive revealed to employees internally that the airline plans to add flights to Singapore (SIN) and Manila (MNL), though stopped short of providing a timeline for the launch, or sharing out of which airport the airline would add this service.
Then in March 2026, Delta submitted a filing to the Department of Transportation (DOT), in reference to Philippine Airlines’ plans to fly to Chicago (ORD), which have since been approved. In this filing, the airline revealed that starting in the summer of 2027, it plans to launch daily Manila flights out of Los Angeles (LAX), using the Airbus A350:
Delta respectfully urges the Department to defer action on PAL’s application until Delta’s entry is assured by the Philippine Government.
Delta does not oppose PAL’s requested authority in principle. Delta recognizes that expanded service between the United States and the Philippines can provide public benefits, including enhanced consumer choice and increased trade and tourism between the two countries.
Delta is likewise committed to advancing these same public interest objectives. In furtherance of that goal, Delta is pursuing plans to launch its own Manila service next summer (2027) with daily Airbus A350-900 service from Los Angeles. Delta’s service would provide additional competition, new routing options, and expanded connectivity for US and Philippine consumers alike.
One certainly wondered if this was a bluff or not, but the airline has now confirmed internally that this route will in fact launch next year, and an announcement is expected to be made next week.
I’m curious to see how Delta’s Asia growth strategy plays out
It’s an interesting time for Delta when it comes to its Asia network:
- Historically, Delta’s Asia network has been based so heavily around routing passengers through Seoul Incheon (ICN) with connections on joint venture partner Korean Air, which means Delta’s actual list of nonstop Asia destinations has been very limited
- With Delta now taking delivery of a good number of long haul planes, including new “flagship” Airbus A350-1000 aircraft, the airline has big growth aspirations for the plane
- Delta’s West Coast strategy has been a challenge — for a while we saw the airline growing in Seattle (SEA), setting that up as a transpacific gateway, but that airport is pretty maxed out in terms of capacity, and Delta is in the number two spot behind Alaska; now we’re seeing Delta try to grow greatly in Los Angeles (LAX), which the airline sees as a “once in a generation” opportunity
- Los Angeles is probably the most competitive West Coast market among Asian carriers, and capacity is seemingly endless, and as a result, yields can be really rough; that’s why none of the “big three” carriers have been able to achieve a dominant position at the airport
I’m excited to see Delta’s long haul network get more interesting, but there’s no denying this strategy also faces some challenges. For one, US carriers have among the highest operating costs in the world for ultra long haul flights, given labor costs at US airlines.
Beyond that, it’s hard for Delta to be the leader across the Pacific, when they’re competing against United, which not only has a very well established network, but also has a mega hub in San Francisco (SFO), which has a scale that Delta simply can’t replicate in Los Angeles or Seattle.
The Manila route specifically is also interesting, given that Philippine Airlines is joining the oneworld alliance, so might become a more competitive option for some. For that matter, the airline is also improving its passenger experience in premium cabins, with new planes and seats. United also added San Francisco to Manila flights in late 2023, though United is also a lot further along when it comes to the size of its Asia route network, and San Francisco is also a much bigger hub for the airline.
So we’ll see how this plays out. Admittedly airline economics have changed over the years, and routes no longer need to be wildly profitable directly, but instead, loyalty programs are also a big consideration. But still, I’m curious to see how this whole Asia network growth plays out for Delta.
Bottom line
Delta has confirmed that in the summer of 2027, it plans to launch daily nonstop flights between Los Angeles and Manila, and the expectation is that the flight will be announced next week.
Frankly, I’m excited to see Delta grow across the Pacific, given that United basically had Asia to itself among the “big three” US carriers, in terms of the size of its network. However, I’m just not convinced that Delta has a winning strategy here, at least in terms of this being profitable in the long run.
What do you make of Delta’s Manila plans?
Any new capacity across the pacific should be celebrated, though I can only imagine how many skypesos the J seats will be.
first, "historically" DL served E. Asia through its PDX hub which, at its peak, served more destinations than DL now serves. The PDXette hub didn't work and then DL "historically" merged with NW which was the largest airline across the Pacific but whose network was heavily centered at NRT where it operated a hub which flowed widebodies down the Pacific Rim and across the Pacific. The NRT hub didn't make money despite NW's size and...
first, "historically" DL served E. Asia through its PDX hub which, at its peak, served more destinations than DL now serves. The PDXette hub didn't work and then DL "historically" merged with NW which was the largest airline across the Pacific but whose network was heavily centered at NRT where it operated a hub which flowed widebodies down the Pacific Rim and across the Pacific. The NRT hub didn't make money despite NW's size and DL started to pull down the NRT hub before covid.
"historically" UA was #2 across the Pacific until DL decided to start pulling the NRT hub down and then UA started dumping huge amounts of capacity across the Pacific despite operating a hub at SFO - and its own smaller hub at NRT on its own metal along w/ its JV partnership with NH. Despite being almost twice as large as any other carrier across the Pacific, UA operated its TPAC network at just breakeven profitability for 3 years post covid as part of its quest to become the largest.
Then "historically" as in post covid UA recognized the opportunity to grow its TPAC network faster than its Asian competitors which locked down much more aggressively. UA, like most US carriers, predominantly carry US originating passengers but some routes including in E. Asia carry large percentages of local Asian originating traffic. UA had an advantage.
DL's TPAC network has never been predominantly centered at ICN. It offered more flights to HND than ICN until early post covid and also has continually served China. TPE was added early post covid - to the cries of people who cried that DL couldn't make it in that market but they are still there.
HKG was just restarted from LAX about a month ago (along w/ LAX-ORD) and it is clearly meeting expectations because DL continues to move forward with TPAC route growth including via exec statements most recently intend to become the largest TPAC carrier along with KE - a clear shot across UA's bow.
DL has and will continue to develop a two hub west coast TPAC network w/ the growth focus for now on LAX which is the largest O&D market on the west coast and where DL is already the largest domestic carrier.
DL will certainly use its A350-1000s, which will be the largest and most capable aircraft in the US carrier fleet, to grow capacity to ICN via upgauging and new routes as well as to open new routes but ICN does not appear to be the largest end of a route on DL metal anytime soon as DL continues to grow its own new/restarted routes. JFK will gain new/restarted service to E. and S. Asia as well as other eastern US hubs where DL is already the largest carrier to E. Asia from east of the Rockies.
DL just announced its 2nd quarter earnings and appears to be unchallenged as the most profitable US airline. It has the financial bandwidth to grow its network with a focus on the west coast, esp. LAX, and across the Pacific, areas where UA has "historically" been stronger.
UA dumping TPAC capacity = what a bunch of losers, not profitable, can’t last
DL dumping TPAC capacity = brilliant move, profitability be dammed, will dominate west coast soon
No objectivity and thus no credibility
when you are the largest company in any market and you operate at only breakeven profitability, you are dumping capacity.
DL's TPAC profitability far exceeded UA's post closure of DL's NRT hub. DL still makes more per ASM on its TPAC network than UA although UA makes more total TPAC networks.
It has only been post covid as UA's TPAC growth potential is tapped out and as DL takes delivery of the A350-1000s...
when you are the largest company in any market and you operate at only breakeven profitability, you are dumping capacity.
DL's TPAC profitability far exceeded UA's post closure of DL's NRT hub. DL still makes more per ASM on its TPAC network than UA although UA makes more total TPAC networks.
It has only been post covid as UA's TPAC growth potential is tapped out and as DL takes delivery of the A350-1000s that DL clearly believes it has strategic advantages which UA cannot overcome.
the only lack of credibility and objectivity are from those that lack the ability to know and accurately interpret data to tell a story which they don't want to hear.
UA launching first TPAC nonstop to Sapporo (plus new or renewed markets in previous years) clearly shows growth not tapped out.
Likely why DL fired you = terrible analysis, no objectivity, bizarrely blinded to a corporation. You’re past your prime Lil Timmy.
CTS will be winter seasonal; just like Mongolia and other narrowbody beyond NRT markets, they only work when there is no better alternative for use of an airplane.
Just say it. DL runs a better business and airline than UA. All UA succeeds at is size.
DL is set to challenge UA in the largest and most significant markets but has no intention of trying to maximize dots on a route map.
You...
CTS will be winter seasonal; just like Mongolia and other narrowbody beyond NRT markets, they only work when there is no better alternative for use of an airplane.
Just say it. DL runs a better business and airline than UA. All UA succeeds at is size.
DL is set to challenge UA in the largest and most significant markets but has no intention of trying to maximize dots on a route map.
You bet on the wrong horse and are finding your loyalties are requiring more and more irrationality on your part.
for 2 decades, DL has succeeded by feasting on AA and B6 and WN markets but is now shifting competitive focus to UA. Even what UA has succeeded at is no longer "safe" from DL's strategies.
“Bet on the wrong horse” - wow Timcel quite the reach. I can fly just about anywhere from EWR and have a few LGA nice options to. Far better loyalty program. Lead horse!
I’d rather be a patron of a bigger airline with broader global scope, than a smaller one flying from more profitable monopolistic hubs. As would just about everyone else round these parts.
Too bad you can’t fly the oil refinery nor AmEx sides of the DL biz - wildly successful! Chump.
I have never challenged anyone’s right to make their own choices – but your comments, including bragging about CTS which originates on the west coast has nothing to do with NYC.
You just look for any reason to trash DL and do so without any logic or reason – while failing to deal with the real issues which you are against which is that DL runs a better business and airline.
Do better next time.
DL a perfectly fine airline. So is United. Differences at the margins.
I am very well aware of the UA flaws. Not perfect. Pretty damn good though!
You, OTOH, are a dogmatic wanker who slurps the DL juice by the gallons, with zero ability whatsoever to be the tiniest bit objective.
Maybe join 47 on one of his bi-monthly Walter Reed visits sometime, might do you some good.
UA is indeed a pretty good airline.
If you look at metrics, however, DL is simply a better run business and airline.
You, OTOH, are incessantly incapable of admitting that reality.
Either quit focusing on how great a company is or accept that UA is a runner up.
Timcel I don’t invent my own alternative facts to make my case. You do. Thats the difference.
Did you ever make Assistant to the Senior Analyst with DL before being fired, or did you just end up as Junior Analyst? Inquiring OMAAT minds want to know!
you and your ilk just deny factual reality which you don't want to believe is true.
NW was the largest TPAC airline for years, DL inherited the role but didn't keep it for long because neither NW or DL for its short run as the largest TPAC airline made money on a consistent basis, UA saw an opportunity to become the largest TPAC airline and gained the title by operating its TPAC network at breakeven...
you and your ilk just deny factual reality which you don't want to believe is true.
NW was the largest TPAC airline for years, DL inherited the role but didn't keep it for long because neither NW or DL for its short run as the largest TPAC airline made money on a consistent basis, UA saw an opportunity to become the largest TPAC airline and gained the title by operating its TPAC network at breakeven profitability until post covid. UA now makes decent money but DL makes more per seat mile over the Pacific than UA.
You love to denigrate me for bringing facts to the table but you can't accept that DL runs a better business and airline; when pressed for the reasons that DL makes so much more money than UA - even w/ UA's lower labor costs - your ilk invariably says it all comes down to DL monopolizing its hubs.
DL simply does not see the need or benefit of dumping capacity into any market to gain market share. you and your ilk love to talk about the metros in which UA hubs are located but can't admit that UA has a much lower market share in those hubs and thus pricing is much more competitive.
and in international markets, you and your ilk love to tout all of the destinations that UA serves that no one else does - but then you can't accept that all of that extra capacity and all those extra destinations result in UA being much less profitable.
the facts are all there but you violently and viciously attack anyone that dares tell you the reality that you just don't want to believe.
Lie to yourself if it makes you feel better. everyone else - including UA execs know the reality.
DL is growing its TPAC network because UA has little ability to keep growing, TPAC is profitable, DL is making strong enough profits that they can incrementally add new destinations, and DL has structural and strategic advantages including its larger corporate travel business, its larger Amex partnership, more gates and more domestic flights at LAX, and a larger presence to East Asia outside of CA than any other airline.
I'll believe it when I see planes landing and taking off. Delta has previously announced Seoul to Manila.
DL's previously stated intent to fly ICN-MNL was because the S. Korea-Phillipines air services treaty had been maxed out in number of flights which S. Korean airlines could operate
With the KE-OZ merger, there are not only undoubtedly more frequencies than KE needs on ICN-MNL but DL also sees the value of operating nonstop US-MNL flights as part of a balanced own metal-JV partner network just as UA does.
Welcome back to MNL, DL! PAL is left with a high-density old C class product. Only time will tell if this new route will force PAL to adopt an A350 or at least a premium C-class product.
As I fly to MNL quite often I can tell you it has long been the sweet spot in low fares to SE Asia. It is becoming a hidden city of premium airlines, all of which are heavily discounting. This is only going to get better. The one problem, of course, is the awful aspect of any transfers there. With a slight upside being the new (and quite nice) Hotel Okura that opened adjacent to...
As I fly to MNL quite often I can tell you it has long been the sweet spot in low fares to SE Asia. It is becoming a hidden city of premium airlines, all of which are heavily discounting. This is only going to get better. The one problem, of course, is the awful aspect of any transfers there. With a slight upside being the new (and quite nice) Hotel Okura that opened adjacent to T3 - if that works for an overnight transfer.
TPE and MNL are going to reshape the market in SE Asia even more. This is going to be a hard sell from North America for airlines like SQ, KE, and CX that have long charged a premium - and in turn start to drive down pricing over the entire region. Good. Now if we can only find a way to do that TATL!
There’s also legacy. Northwest was a big presence in Manila back in the day. Several times I saw two NW 747s there…
Once again, it’s obvious UA is a better managed airline & the rest are just catching up.
It took 2 daily UA flights to MNL (+1 year) b4 they took action.
P/S I didn’t say UA is a good airline for pax, FYI.
Congrats Delta, with your new flight to one of the world's worst airports.
It will be interesting to see how SEA develops. It’s such a small (physical space) airport and very busy. It seems to be very full.
Boston is kinda similar. It’s full. Delta is the #2. JFK is a bigger hub.
DL is now the largest airline at BOS, just as it is at JFK and LGA.
DL is still the largest international airline at SEA. Let us know when AS succeeds at surpassing DL as the largest international airline at SEA; that will take years given that DL has matched and exceeded everything AS has announced in new international routes since AS decided it wanted to start flying widebody international routes from SEA (and from HA's HNL hub)
Guest user @yolo
Bring your critiques
Tim Dunn is too nervous so please bring your guest thoughts ;)
Aww, are you mad that everyone is noticing how obsessive you are over Tim Dunn?
Those people aren't me, it's just a fact. I know you have a hard time contending with them, when they aren't in your favor.
Genuinely, you're everywhere he goes, even other blogs, it's not normal.
Lil Timmy D’s sociopathic behavior is the definition of “not normal”. Every regular reader sees it. The community does right by calling out his misinformation and bombast.
you're right @UA-NYC
DL, AA, and UA have so many great attributes. It's honestly amusing that so many get so wound up about all this.
DL and UA make more money than AA and anyone can have a spirited debate about why that is. :)
lol
says the guy that replied to me 9 minutes after I summoned him.
refresh much? ;)
you're so much like your daddy.. but he has a diamond account and you're just a guest user... weird since it's like you don't want to be bothered by changing logins?
"Summoned" that's rich coming from you, given how you spam refresh to reply to Tim Dunn and cry when he doesn't and have been doing this for years.
Like please take a look in the mirror and reflect on your own deranged behavior.
3 minutes later... I will. ;)
The reflection is looking... F-I-N-E!
I should create a couple dozen more OMAAT accounts and like this post dozens of times.
Max is deranged but most pathologically wounded people are usually incapable of seeing themselves for what they are.
Nice route to have for US-PH travellers, I think this route will actually do alright given the massive PH diaspora in the US, even if fares tend to be a bit on the low side. Makes more sense than LAX-HKG imo.
Now let's see when Alaska will announce SEA-MNL...
happy to be proven wrong but AS won't announce MNL. This just reeks of a Delta-hubris route beyond any measure. Love my Filipinos as much as the next guy but this just is not a high yield diaspora group yet -- no doubt they will like every other diaspora group historically but they aren't right now...
I guess I should say that the AS/HA A332 LOPA is pretty perfect for MNL service from the US but I don't personally think AS will start it. Much better market left to PR labor costs
Alaska doesn't need to fly SEA to MNL, they already have a partnership w/ PAL, which flies that route. And PAL is joining OW, so even less incentive to split the traffic.
Based on internal decks, the next Asia route for Alaska is likely to be SEA to HKG, even with CX flying it.
Oh I know @yolo
But it’s easier when you prove my point for me
Thanks, sTDjr
Yields will be trash. It's mostly VFR and some light-ish corporate traffic for all the call centers and back offices situated in the Philippines.
Yields will be trash, but maybe the 35K can make it work.
Yields will be trash. It's mostly VFR and some light-ish corporate traffic for all the call centers and back offices situated in the Philippines.
I’m touched
Truly
The new paid delta analysts are talking up Timmy — ladies, I appreciate it. Delta is known for this paid social media guest drivel. Make your money!
I don’t need to be referenced on a comment section. I have a job and I wasn’t fired by delta. Find a new hero to beg to come back
Seriously? How pathetic is this? Lol you can’t possible be this infatuated with tim Dunn? Lol
Lmao look at this deranged crash out to the wrong comment. Genuinely delulu
Then why the f**k is PR have so many frequencies out of the West coast Toronto and jfk ? Why does UA now have twice a day service ? You don’t understand the Filipino diaspora and tourism - obviously something is working it’s just Delta is LATE to the game !
Bro why is no one pointing out that MaxPower is just an inverse Tim Dunn, the dude just spergmaxxes against Delta on every Delta post/article
He is obsessed by Tim Dunn and lives for Tim's Comments. Get a life already..
This is the truth, he'll act unbothered, but in reality he responds to TD in real-time and salivates waiting for the reply.
Awww
@yolo
Did sTD let you free for the night? I’m thrilled for our freedom
I’m touched
Truly
The new paid delta analysts are talking up Timmy — ladies, I appreciate it. Delta is known for this paid social media guest drivel. Make your money!
I don’t need to be referenced on a comment section. I have a job and I wasn’t fired by delta. Find a new hero to beg to come back
Seriously? How pathetic is this? Lol you can’t possible be this infatuated with tim Dunn? Lol
So I point out that you sperg out on Delta every time (20 posts on this article alone lmao) and your takeaway is I’m infatuated with Tim Dunn? So not only are you obsessed, but retarded as well? Congrats!
Any predictions on how fast Delta ends this money-bleeding route?
the airline that can't even fly LAX-LHR (failed twice) and started "year-round" LAX-AKL quite loudly with a lot of marketing at how awesome that they'd be year-round... only to pull back about a month later once Delta seemed to all of a sudden realize how seasonal the market is.
..
all of a sudden they're fighting against PR for flights to MNL... good luck! I'll be amazed if this flight lasts long. It...
the airline that can't even fly LAX-LHR (failed twice) and started "year-round" LAX-AKL quite loudly with a lot of marketing at how awesome that they'd be year-round... only to pull back about a month later once Delta seemed to all of a sudden realize how seasonal the market is.
..
all of a sudden they're fighting against PR for flights to MNL... good luck! I'll be amazed if this flight lasts long. It seems like just a short term flight to make their stupid reply to AA/PR at the DOT look less anti-competitive.
Max, you can't blame 'em for trying. Sure, UA already flies SFO-MNL, and to Ulaanbataar, and Nuuk... and Bangcock... so, DL really needs something spicy...
@1990
Then let them fly to Sichuan!
Bangkok? Hmm...
LAX-AKL is not only seasonal, it's also saturated. Over-serviced, even. Kiwis will reflexively travel with NZ, or on UA metal codeshare. Visitors from the US have a number of options. Delta might not have made a great decision in joining the fray.
The problem with Delta on previous attempts on routes like LAX-LHR and JFK-TYO was the lack of premium configured aircraft at the time those routes were flown by Delta. With standard configurations question is can the flight be filled profitably considering cost of operating the route, competition, absence or presence of partners, and in the case of JFK cost of crewing in a standalone a350 flight. Now that Delta has more premium configured aircraft coming...
The problem with Delta on previous attempts on routes like LAX-LHR and JFK-TYO was the lack of premium configured aircraft at the time those routes were flown by Delta. With standard configurations question is can the flight be filled profitably considering cost of operating the route, competition, absence or presence of partners, and in the case of JFK cost of crewing in a standalone a350 flight. Now that Delta has more premium configured aircraft coming in part of the question changes to can delta fill enough seats up front to get corporate contracts.
https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/delta/151528-network-rumors-facts-68.html
Some post alleges Delta will apply for JFK/BOS-HND if slots ever open up. Don't know how accurate that rumor is.
All three won't be renewed and they'll gaslight people into thinking it was everyone else's fault but their own
You’re going to need an industrial strength nose plug to take that flight.
Why? Is it because YOU are taking that flight? ... -_-
No that’s spirit and southwest and frontier racist bro .
And Philippine Airlines just ordered some 78Xs on top of more A35Ks!
https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/philippine-air-order-15-boeing-787-10-nine-airbus-a350-1000-2026-07-10/
Your articles always come across as pedantic and frankly racially coded.
Do you not understand the part where the filipino diaspora is huge in the US? Do you not understand that PAL flies twice daily from LAX and SFO - basically capturing the market. Delta used to serve MNL where it was lifeline for many filipino /Fil-ams in the past...with better planes it can serve that again.
You're not filipino nor are you working for Delta so your "concern"/opinion doesn't fly.
^ this comment blows.
Would love to understand how this article is racially coded
Please quote a line in the article that is racially coded. I can't see one.
If you’re going to criticize an article for being pedantic or racially coded you should cite an example.
For instance, you sound incredibly arrogant when you twice used the phrase “Do you not understand…”
Because we the legacy northwest crowd with million milers and the hundreds of Fortune 500 travelers in Manila are sick and tired of going to Korea and people thinking I can’t get your strategy why we would want to decrease excess 4 hours travel into high temperature Korean airport that doesn’t like anything below 75F.
We don’t need a winning airline at LAX. Better that all three compete annd succeed. Especially if you happen to live in SoCal. Likewise at ORD. UA winning and AA losing isn’t beneficial to the majority of fliers. Further, those that wish AA would disappear altogether will rue the day.
Haha Not exactly High yielding? In what way, there are a lots of filipinos residing in LA, so not high yielding? Are you joking?
if you look at the Delta nonstop wide body route map out of LAX. You're going to suggest that MNL is the next best option? lol
C'mon now?
DL is not a total novice in Asia. Once upon a time, Northwest Orient had a huge presence in Asia, even flying many intra Asia routes in competition with the local carriers. So to see them come back to their old playground isn't something totally out of left field at all
This feels more like a political play for Delta. Since they can't get slots at MNL, they will appeal to the government to intervene to force their way into the market. That's the only reason to bring up PR's ORD request. Even though airport slots and bi-lateral open skies agreements are entirely separate entities, Delta realizes it has a friendly, protectionist government willing to hear the argument. If we can't fly, nobody can fly.
Huuuuuge and upwardly mobile Filipino population in Los Angeles and Orange Counties
That plane will smell worse than an Air India flight. Lol
If you have to end with LOL, you're the only idiot who thinks it is funny.
Bring on the Balikbayan boxes!
LOL ! ... You must be 'ex-NWA' ???
Yep!
"I can’t really make sense of Delta’s Manila strategy"
California is home to about 1.7 million Filipino residents. That is roughly 4–5 % of the state’s total population (given California’s ~39 million residents), and about 38 % of all Filipino Americans in the U.S. live in California
Years ago, NW had a loyal following in the Philippines (even if Japan was your final destination) and even had a partnership with Cebu where you could also earn miles with the latter.
I wonder if that following still exists and transferred over to Delta after the merger or it's pretty much non-existent.
Honestly have no clue, but I bet that sadly went away when DL abandoned the legacy NWA NRT 'Fugu' hub operation....among its many other 'interport' routes there...
LAX is just a way bigger market for MNL than SEA is, plus SEA already has service. Given that DL wants to focus on building loyalty and AMEX spend (building their whole portfolio, rather than individual routes), it makes sense that they'd fly this from LAX. Maybe MNL is a borderline destination, but if they can breakeven flying it and boost their AMEX revenue at the same time, it's worth doing.
Reading the tea leaves...
LAX is just a way bigger market for MNL than SEA is, plus SEA already has service. Given that DL wants to focus on building loyalty and AMEX spend (building their whole portfolio, rather than individual routes), it makes sense that they'd fly this from LAX. Maybe MNL is a borderline destination, but if they can breakeven flying it and boost their AMEX revenue at the same time, it's worth doing.
Reading the tea leaves from Delta I suspect they'd also choose to fly SIN from LAX for the same reasons. Maybe if those routes are a hit they'll add SEA later, but LAX growth just seems much more sensible at this point.
let's not forget that LAX is a major feeder market for UA's SFO hub.
Providing nonstop service from LAX not only taps into a generally larger local market but also cuts off other carriers from hubs further north up the coast including UA at SFO as well as what AS might do at SEA
No its not really... Show us the data before you spout nonsense again.
I do note that DL's TPAC JV with KE apparently does not include the Philippines - so much so that they don't even *codeshare* on flights to Manila. That might explain why they're interested in it. The letter to USDOT mirrors one from United a few years ago, and is not surprising.
That has more to do with the limitations of the South Korea - Philippines bilateral agreement, than anything to do with Delta and Korean. Same thing with their flights into mainland China. They WANT TO, but can't.
All of this boils down to whether DL will be able to dominate the premium traffic at LAX where others have failed in the future (similar story in SEA).
Most expected DL additions like SEA-TPE, LAX-AKL, LAX-MEL, LAX-BNE, LAX-LHR, etc. to fai, but outside of LAX-LHR none have been cut which would seem to illustrate that they are doing OK.
However, those with access to this information note that routes like LAX-AKL, SEA-TPE, and others...
All of this boils down to whether DL will be able to dominate the premium traffic at LAX where others have failed in the future (similar story in SEA).
Most expected DL additions like SEA-TPE, LAX-AKL, LAX-MEL, LAX-BNE, LAX-LHR, etc. to fai, but outside of LAX-LHR none have been cut which would seem to illustrate that they are doing OK.
However, those with access to this information note that routes like LAX-AKL, SEA-TPE, and others are still money losers for DL. For some of those routes like LAX-AKL, DL is only roughly break-even for ~2-3 months of the year even with margins really improving after cutting ~4-5 months of service (yet yields remain an issue).
DL has the finances and wherewithal to continue trying out routes like these and LAX-HKG (where UA does terribly), but the proof will be in the pudding on if it can make those routes viable.
So far that hasn't happened - we'll see how long this willingness to compete lasts especially if oil prices remain high. After all, this has been the exact same story at LAX over and over again once a player makes a move to dominate.
“ Most expected DL additions like SEA-TPE, LAX-AKL, LAX-MEL, LAX-BNE, LAX-LHR, etc. to fail, but outside of LAX-LHR none have been cut which would seem to illustrate that they are doing OK.”
Not really.
Lax-Lhr is the most premium route out of lax and delta failed twice on it — and recently
Lax-akl was announced as year-round (and trumpeted as such loudly here by a certain someone ;) )and very quickly cut to...
“ Most expected DL additions like SEA-TPE, LAX-AKL, LAX-MEL, LAX-BNE, LAX-LHR, etc. to fail, but outside of LAX-LHR none have been cut which would seem to illustrate that they are doing OK.”
Not really.
Lax-Lhr is the most premium route out of lax and delta failed twice on it — and recently
Lax-akl was announced as year-round (and trumpeted as such loudly here by a certain someone ;) )and very quickly cut to seasonal due to how badly it was doing. My mom could fly lax-akl in season profitably
Lax-bne is a subsidy and we’ll see if delta keeps it going once the subsidy is over
Sea-tpe is certainly going — good for delta but if anyone thinks that’s profitable, they need their heads checked. Every other airline on that route has a better soft and hard product on the route with a lower cost structure than delta. Delta employees on a.net constantly note how it is not profitable
Lax-Mel is new this year (really late late 2025) so we don’t really know whether it’s going to last
LAX-HKg? United has a real presence in hkg. Delta does not. AA is more than happy to put their passengers on the 3x/day Cathay flights and let them earn their loyalty points on a better product across the board than delta.
We do know that delta is in the worst strategic position in Oceania with no JV or real partner there like VA. As much as people pretend that sudden growth makes delta the biggest at anything in lax, they aren’t — loyalty penetration included. Their higher gate position is temporary while AA redoes their terminal and there’s really little to no advantage delta has on any major business route out of lax aside from Mex and that JV seems to be going away
It says a lot about delta in lax that delta has twice failed at flying lax-Lhr despite a JV partner in LHR. They don’t have a JV partner in any of these other cities you mention to hand off unprofitable flying to
Delta has plenty of money and is welcome to spend it in LA. Delta isn’t the first company to try and “win LA” and they won’t be the last. But they are in the worst strategic position of the US3 at lax. That’s not even debatable. They are. But they are certainly spending money to lower the entrenched disadvantage
Some truths, some misrepresentations in this.
LAX-LHR is a very different market than South Pacific and Asia flying, we can all agree to that. The failure of Delta to run a single daily year-round to Europe from LAX is significant. It's something that both AA and UA manage to do. But being weak for TATL on a West Coast hub is not indicative of if they can be successful TPAC.
Agreed, LAX-AKL likely performs...
Some truths, some misrepresentations in this.
LAX-LHR is a very different market than South Pacific and Asia flying, we can all agree to that. The failure of Delta to run a single daily year-round to Europe from LAX is significant. It's something that both AA and UA manage to do. But being weak for TATL on a West Coast hub is not indicative of if they can be successful TPAC.
Agreed, LAX-AKL likely performs very poorly, hence the massive cutbacks in schedule and the dirt cheap fares.
Broadly speaking, BNE is massively over capacity, the problem isn't even unique to Delta. BNE international traffic is 1/3 of SYD and 1/2 of MEL, the market simply just isn't there. LAX-BNE likely goes away over time, as MEL will be going daily soon.
Delta's "struggle" on SEA to TPE is largely overstated, I'm not sure I would trust random people on the internet to cite individual route profitability. Factually, all we can know is that Delta has kept up with the competition in terms of loadings, the same can be said for UA's SFO to TPE performance, yet it seemingly gets little to no scrutiny, despite the massively higher seat count that SFO to TPE sees compared to SEA to TPE. Delta's TPE flight serves US point of sale, hence being a daytime flight to TPE. The Taiwanese carriers are focused on East and Southeast Asia connections, both are seemingly coexisting just fine.
@yolo
“ Delta's "struggle" on SEA to TPE is largely overstated, I'm not sure I would trust random people on the internet to cite individual route profitability.”
I don’t trust randos like yourself. Plenty of delta employees constantly out what they do if you go far enough in their post history on a.net ;)
The difference is, you are the random person making claims about that route's profitability, I am not, I have said it's inconclusive, there's nothing to trust or not trust about my statement because it's factual.
It's pretty clear unless you can read their internal data, which you are not privy to, making assumptions about a route's profitability is just pure speculation.
@yolo
I’m not the one claiming it. I specifically said delta employees say it’s unprofitable and noted that they have outed what they do on other websites. Nice try to say I said it though. No. I did not.
However, you also don’t have to cover your eyes and hold your nose to consider a route’s profitability and pretend like “guess we’ll never know” and play dumb.
Delta easily has the worst product...
@yolo
I’m not the one claiming it. I specifically said delta employees say it’s unprofitable and noted that they have outed what they do on other websites. Nice try to say I said it though. No. I did not.
However, you also don’t have to cover your eyes and hold your nose to consider a route’s profitability and pretend like “guess we’ll never know” and play dumb.
Delta easily has the worst product on the route and the highest costs. Another carrier on that route with a much better product across the board happily codeshares with an airline twice delta’s size in Seattle and even more than twice the domestic capacity in Seattle than delta.
You’re welcome to pretend that “gee. We just will never know” but that’s just sticking your head in the sand to purposefully ignore reality and vetted posters on other websites that are happy to share internal delta data.
Your choice to ignore the world around you is your own. I’d recommend reevaluating your choices though. ;)
You try and hedge, but you're still literally making claims about the profitability in this response.
If you need to write that much to pretend you're not citing unverifiable sources, but that you still agree with them, then you've lost the plot.
"Lax-Lhr is the most premium route out of lax"
Based on what?
I don't have numbers beyond 2023 (Cirium 4Q23), but it was the single lowest yielding longhaul route in both Delta, Virgin, AND United's entire long-haul system. For BA, the only North American route for them with lower average fare and yield over distance, was San Jose (CA), which they ended that year.
LAX to Heathrow has limitless aggregate demand, and plenty of First...
"Lax-Lhr is the most premium route out of lax"
Based on what?
I don't have numbers beyond 2023 (Cirium 4Q23), but it was the single lowest yielding longhaul route in both Delta, Virgin, AND United's entire long-haul system. For BA, the only North American route for them with lower average fare and yield over distance, was San Jose (CA), which they ended that year.
LAX to Heathrow has limitless aggregate demand, and plenty of First Class demand, but the yields in all 3 other cabins are actually pretty terrible for every airline flying it.
Very interesting.
Any theories as to why LAX-LHR is such a low yield route for all of these airlines?
This is the paragraph that most matters
"DL has the finances and wherewithal to continue trying out routes like these and LAX-HKG (where UA does terribly), but the proof will be in the pudding on if it can make those routes viable."
Nowhere did DL ever said it intended to be a distant #2 to UA to Asia after it had to pull down its NRT hub.
As much as some people argue...
This is the paragraph that most matters
"DL has the finances and wherewithal to continue trying out routes like these and LAX-HKG (where UA does terribly), but the proof will be in the pudding on if it can make those routes viable."
Nowhere did DL ever said it intended to be a distant #2 to UA to Asia after it had to pull down its NRT hub.
As much as some people argue that financial data isn't public, the DOT DOES report profitability by global region and UA used DL's TPAC pullback to throw tons of capacity into the market while AA has basically become a niche TPAC carrier from DFW and to Japan.
UA cannot keep adding a bunch more TPAC capacity and the events of the past 2 weeks make it doubtful that UA can even continue with the market share grabbing strategies it is engaged in at the same time it has to bring tens of thousands of employees up to industry average wages.
DL said that it is increasing adding routes based on the total impact of routes to DL's revenue including Amex and SkyMiles revenue. LAX is a huge market and DL is already building on a very solid domestic position to add more international service.
DL played conservatively coming out of covid and is generating the profits to endure the current crisis better than competitors; given that the refinery, once again, will be a key determinant of the ability to survive and overcome this crisis, DL is very likely to use the next few years to focus on rebuiding its TPAC network as its primary strategic focus - and that might have been the case even before Feb 28.
SEA isn't going anywhere but winning LAX matters more than adding SEA routes that will largely be connections.
and let's also not forget that Asian jet fuel prices are much higher than in the US so the ability of Asian carriers to maintain what they have, let alone add, will be much less than for US carriers and esp. DL with its fuel advantage.
The age old question.
At what point does “strategic” flying become unprofitable flying? With much of delta tpac flying we’ll find out one day.
ask United.
There is no reason other than UA's overfocus on "strategic flying" that they fly 10% more ASMs than DL but get less revenue and 2/3 of DL's profits - despite a $1 billion labor cost advantage.
DL isn't fighting wiht any other legacy carrier for any domestic hub. DL isn't focused on size.
Let's also not forget that the vast majority of AA's network is "strategic flying" given its very low profit margins.
...ask United.
There is no reason other than UA's overfocus on "strategic flying" that they fly 10% more ASMs than DL but get less revenue and 2/3 of DL's profits - despite a $1 billion labor cost advantage.
DL isn't fighting wiht any other legacy carrier for any domestic hub. DL isn't focused on size.
Let's also not forget that the vast majority of AA's network is "strategic flying" given its very low profit margins.
DL can add lots of "strategic" flying and have nowhere near the financial risk as others.
and DL makes more per seat mile flying the Pacific than UA even after DL's addition of some of the routes that some have noted don't make money.
@tim
Predictable response
Deflect deflect deflect
Change topic. Bring up other airlines to obfuscate the conversation
All on a topic where no one cares what you think because you only have about four things you ever say and repeat like a broken record player
“Strategic” flying is fun until your shareholders start asking when it becomes “unprofitable” like much of it is
Since you’re both so worried about delta’s finances in...
@tim
Predictable response
Deflect deflect deflect
Change topic. Bring up other airlines to obfuscate the conversation
All on a topic where no one cares what you think because you only have about four things you ever say and repeat like a broken record player
“Strategic” flying is fun until your shareholders start asking when it becomes “unprofitable” like much of it is
Since you’re both so worried about delta’s finances in lax and sea. It’s worth saying I do think delta has mostly if not all Profitable flying to Asia from east of the Mississippi River.
But there’s no reason for anyone to pretend that new longhaul flying from cities with no natural delta advantage are profitable
Sydney probably is but the rest outside of lax-hnd… debatable
But then again. By the Kirby standard of “credit cards pay for it all and make us profitable everywhere”, it may be
and yet, you are certain DL is losing money in so many places but can't reconcile that DL generates more revenue and makes more profit on a system basis.
You, max, and a whole lot of other people are all over anything where you think DL underperforms but never asks the real questions as to where OTHER CARRIERS underperform - and yet that clearly happens.
Other people can see your hypocrisy, Max.
UA and...
and yet, you are certain DL is losing money in so many places but can't reconcile that DL generates more revenue and makes more profit on a system basis.
You, max, and a whole lot of other people are all over anything where you think DL underperforms but never asks the real questions as to where OTHER CARRIERS underperform - and yet that clearly happens.
Other people can see your hypocrisy, Max.
UA and AA clearly have managed to convince their boards and shareholders of the validity of strategic flying - and yet miss profits.
Maybe it is all about credit cards - but UA and AA can't seem to offset their direct operational losses.
DL is not moved by your babbling.
and the rest of us laugh at what pours off your keyboard.
"Lax-Lhr is the most premium route out of lax"
Based on what?
I don't have numbers beyond 2023 (Cirium 4Q23), but it was the single lowest yielding longhaul route in both Delta, Virgin, AND United's entire long-haul system. For BA, the only North American route for them with lower average fare and yield over distance, was San Jose (CA), which they ended that year.
LAX to Heathrow has limitless aggregate demand, and plenty of First...
"Lax-Lhr is the most premium route out of lax"
Based on what?
I don't have numbers beyond 2023 (Cirium 4Q23), but it was the single lowest yielding longhaul route in both Delta, Virgin, AND United's entire long-haul system. For BA, the only North American route for them with lower average fare and yield over distance, was San Jose (CA), which they ended that year.
LAX to Heathrow has limitless aggregate demand, and plenty of First Class demand, but the yields in all 3 other cabins are actually pretty terrible for every airline flying it.
Max's MO is to make unsubstantiated claims like that, and deflect to other sources to pretend he's not in the wrong.
and, more significantly, he can't reconcile all of his "but, but they can't" statements w/ the bottom line which clearly shows that DL can put it all together in a successful package better than anyone else.
and the incessant LAX-LHR example always forgets to note that UA doubled their capacity when DL started on its own metal and then UA dropped back to single daily as soon as DL went back to solely relying...
and, more significantly, he can't reconcile all of his "but, but they can't" statements w/ the bottom line which clearly shows that DL can put it all together in a successful package better than anyone else.
and the incessant LAX-LHR example always forgets to note that UA doubled their capacity when DL started on its own metal and then UA dropped back to single daily as soon as DL went back to solely relying on the VS JV.
and yet UA has dropped LAX-AKL on its own metal, LAX-BNE, and hasn't fought back to DL's adding LAX-MEL on a year round basis or adding LAX-HKG.
Perhaps DL knows that UA really has stretched itself too thin fighting too many battles while also knowing that UA will never win in any market against a DL 35K which many of these routes will see in time.
So much hate and vitriol lol
Fellas, it’s a comment section lol
Enjoy a lack of critical thinking. I really don’t care if you agree with me and I don’t need to repeat what I did and did not say nor explain what is a reasonable assumption vs stating as fact from other sources. It’s a comment section.
Everyone knows Tim’s credibility. Fired by delta.
Yolo. I know nothing of your background but...
So much hate and vitriol lol
Fellas, it’s a comment section lol
Enjoy a lack of critical thinking. I really don’t care if you agree with me and I don’t need to repeat what I did and did not say nor explain what is a reasonable assumption vs stating as fact from other sources. It’s a comment section.
Everyone knows Tim’s credibility. Fired by delta.
Yolo. I know nothing of your background but given how much you’re trying to deflect and deny simple reasoning on a discussion around route profitability, it doesn’t seem to be related to anything on this topic
Immortal. Welcome. I’ll really enjoy you trying to convince the aviation community that lax-lhr is not a premium route. What an unusual a weird place to take a stand. Yes. It’s widely regarded as a premium route ;)
All the best to everyone. I’m thrilled you all found common cause and comfort in complaining about me to each other. It truly warms my heart
if there is hate, it is from you.
We got through this just about every time DL announces anything.
You are convinced that DL can't do anything right while other airlines walk on water and yet you can't explain how DL manages to generate more revenue, more profits and run an operationally better airline.
and you prove you can't win the debate every time you resort to personal attacks.
You are a loud, obnoxious, low...
if there is hate, it is from you.
We got through this just about every time DL announces anything.
You are convinced that DL can't do anything right while other airlines walk on water and yet you can't explain how DL manages to generate more revenue, more profits and run an operationally better airline.
and you prove you can't win the debate every time you resort to personal attacks.
You are a loud, obnoxious, low quality participant in social media. Anyone with a halfway objective perspective can see that.
Personal attacks, huh?
It’s a personal attack to remind others of your credibility?
1. Fired by delta
2. Banned under multiple usernames on a.net
3. Banned here for a time as well
If mentioning that delta’s biggest fanboy was fired by delta and banned on other websites than I raise my hand agreeing with you
But I’d regard calling you a loser and idiot as more of a personal attack. Your...
Personal attacks, huh?
It’s a personal attack to remind others of your credibility?
1. Fired by delta
2. Banned under multiple usernames on a.net
3. Banned here for a time as well
If mentioning that delta’s biggest fanboy was fired by delta and banned on other websites than I raise my hand agreeing with you
But I’d regard calling you a loser and idiot as more of a personal attack. Your credibility, work history, and internet background is what you’ve done with your own life and your own life choices. You should celebrate it ;)
Happy Thursday everyone
Really is funny how bent out of shape the delta fanboys get about their claims of eternal greatness when challenged
It’s a great airline as I’ve said many many times. But it is not starting profitable routes on day 1 from every hub and there are many things that are just a marketing sheen, not reality
Seriously. Get out of Atlanta one day. It’s a big world out there!
You can't compete in the marketplace of ideas so you attack other people.
We get it.
I don't live in Atlanta. Have told you that for years but you are convinced I am not telling the truth.
You believe what you want. Everyone can see that.
You lost the plot a long time ago, max.
I feel like such a bad navigator losing the plot so often.
Or am I bad story writer losing the plot to my own carefully crafted story line? Oh wait… it’s a comment section, not my short story for the New Yorker
“Bad Max!!!”
Be more proud of your background, tim. There’s no reason to run from your own life choices unless you think it destroys your own credibility?
Max, you simply seem to be unable to reflect or engage in reasonable discourse. In fact, I started off by agreeing with most of your points, and shared what was flawed reasoning for one of them.
You decided to double down and lash out and make ad hominem attacks. You could've simply said "I do trust the unverified Delta employee's claims on a.net" and agreed to disagree.
You have a continual pattern of behavior where...
Max, you simply seem to be unable to reflect or engage in reasonable discourse. In fact, I started off by agreeing with most of your points, and shared what was flawed reasoning for one of them.
You decided to double down and lash out and make ad hominem attacks. You could've simply said "I do trust the unverified Delta employee's claims on a.net" and agreed to disagree.
You have a continual pattern of behavior where you do this, where you are unable to contend with people having different perspectives.
Oh Yolo…
You’re right. I don’t care if you agree with me on a comment section or whether you think I’m reasonable
It’s a comment section. It’s just fun banter until I’m busy again. I think it’s plenty obvious how serious I take this unlike others.
Per tpe, your counter was “well, load factor…”
I’m just noting as I’ve now said several times what others that do work for delta have said...
Oh Yolo…
You’re right. I don’t care if you agree with me on a comment section or whether you think I’m reasonable
It’s a comment section. It’s just fun banter until I’m busy again. I think it’s plenty obvious how serious I take this unlike others.
Per tpe, your counter was “well, load factor…”
I’m just noting as I’ve now said several times what others that do work for delta have said about the route. If you don’t like that… ok? I never said it was my data but I then did note that having the costs and worse product on a route normally isn’t a great combo for profitability. You haven’t replied to either comment with anything factual aside from Load factor.
I’m glad you and tim can commiserate together about me now 22-23 comments down from the original comment
I hope it provides you comfort.
This really is a waste of both our time. You don’t go to a bar and introduce yourself as “hey, my name is YOLOSwagPotDude” and I don’t introduce myself as “MaxPower”
I don’t think I’m a click getter for Ben but I sure hope he got some clicks from our silly banter. He works hard on this website and great material. Glad we could both minimally boost his article click numbers today
Let’s stop taking everything so personally.
You are the one taking it personally it seems, based on this response.
I don't even know what you're talking about this point, with going to bars and introducing yourself. Deeply unwell behavior.
“ I don't even know what you're talking about this point, ”
You should probably lay off the 420 for a bit then. That lack of normal brain function is pretty typical from someone doing too much weed. But hey, you only live once, right? (I hope that wasn’t too tough for you to comprehend)
Also. Thank you for the 4th reply without any substantive response to what I actually said about TPE. Noted.
All the best
Might need to turn your brain up to Max Power, if you can't figure it out. You've gotten very substantive responses already.
seems not since we're up to the 5th response now where all you've said is "but the load factors..."
but enjoy your evening and the weed.
Tim why is Delta's flying less profitable than United then? Less loyalty and the refinery (both are non-flying segments) Delta is less profitable than United so please stop with the crap about Delta's flying being more profitable when it is plainly not. Yes it has a better loyalty deal with Amex than United has with Chase but adding loss making flying doesn't make its flying more profitable hahaha. Your lack of understanding of airlines never...
Tim why is Delta's flying less profitable than United then? Less loyalty and the refinery (both are non-flying segments) Delta is less profitable than United so please stop with the crap about Delta's flying being more profitable when it is plainly not. Yes it has a better loyalty deal with Amex than United has with Chase but adding loss making flying doesn't make its flying more profitable hahaha. Your lack of understanding of airlines never ceases to amaze me - it is like the dunning-kruger effect or something.
I wonder how much longer Delta is going to keep its unprofitable Seattle hub going. All of its new long haul routes have been in LAX recently, which seems like a sign. Plus with Alaska having a growing 787 base in the same airport, a bigger connecting network, and way better local loyalty, I suspect things are only going to get worse in SEA for Delta.
Given they just opened up multiple brand new lounges less than a year ago and added multiple new longhaul and domestic flights, I expect it to be for quite some time.
And somehow everyone fails to understand hub economics vs airline profitability. When the revenue is now primarily driven by loyalty spend, the profitability of individual routes and stations matters much less.
"Given they just opened up multiple brand new lounges less than a year ago..."
And still no D1 lounge in ATL, and AUS is getting new lounges too. Which hub do you think is more profitable? Too funny
"I wonder how much longer Delta is going to keep its unprofitable Seattle hub going."
Why do you people persist with this trope?
Delta has formally stated (multiple times) as a fiduciary to investors, that Seattle is profitable for them. If they aren't telling the truth, then that's both a felony and massive tort.
YOLO and immortal
It must bother you so much that you can’t just try to have mods delete a comment about delta like you and your ilk do on a.net lol
wait, what? you come to OMAAT because a.net won't let you push your non-sense there?
I come to omaat and a.net because I’m not banned on one those sites, unlike you.
You’re stupid. Stop showing it off with your comments
Despite your differences, can the lot of you at least agree 1990 is the most annoying commenter on OMAAT?
no
@ dave
I'm rather shocked he hasn't tried to jump in, I'll give you that.
There are over 600000 Filipinos in the Los Angeles area and over 200000 Filipinos in the San Diego area, where drive in becomes a factor. Seattle is less than 150000. This market makes all sorts of sense for Delta
Pretty much the entire southern half of California and Nevada.
Yes, but most of that will be low yielding VFR traffic. I don't think there's much business or corporate traffic between the two, although there might be cargo.
I recognize that these days, even VFR customers are buying up to higher classes and more expensive fares, but I don't think any airline is yet at the point of planning routes based purely on O&D VFR traffic, especially on ULH routes like this (business O&D yes;...
Yes, but most of that will be low yielding VFR traffic. I don't think there's much business or corporate traffic between the two, although there might be cargo.
I recognize that these days, even VFR customers are buying up to higher classes and more expensive fares, but I don't think any airline is yet at the point of planning routes based purely on O&D VFR traffic, especially on ULH routes like this (business O&D yes; VFR connecting yes; but VFR O&D? I don't think so. Happy to be proven otherwise if there are indeed examples of this).
LAX has tons of great 1-stop connections (not to mention a direct flight with PR itself), whether that's through Asia hubs, ME hubs, or even a short hop up to SFO and SEA for direct flights from there. All of them will have better CASM economics than a nonstop from LAX, just based on pure geography. Which means Delta will need to compete on convenience and/or loyalty, both of which are less of a factor for VFR traffic than it is for frequent business travelers.
That said, Delta's approach has always been more opportunistic than the other big airlines, adding flights away from their hubs when they feel it might be profitable. So we'll have to see. But to me, it seems like this route will not be sustainable long term.
There's a significant and growing presence of business now. Aside from BPO of course, you have tech, finance, and manufacturing. Certainly a much bigger presence now and still growing compared to years past with the country being more business friendly.
It seems obvious that Seattle will add flights to NE Asia and maybe India once airspace allows, and Los Angeles will serve destinations with high demand (HND, PVG) in NE Asia, plus SE Asia and Oceania. I'd expect PKX to eventually be added back to SEA but HKG or any further south seems unlikely. I wouldn't expect PKX to be added to LAX, but SIN, MNL and maybe SGN much further out seem reasonable. The...
It seems obvious that Seattle will add flights to NE Asia and maybe India once airspace allows, and Los Angeles will serve destinations with high demand (HND, PVG) in NE Asia, plus SE Asia and Oceania. I'd expect PKX to eventually be added back to SEA but HKG or any further south seems unlikely. I wouldn't expect PKX to be added to LAX, but SIN, MNL and maybe SGN much further out seem reasonable. The demand from LAX is likely that much bigger to warrant trying from there versus SEA.
I'm so lost, why does the addition of one route to LAX, automatically mean they are not growing another hub? For example, does BOS getting a flight mean Delta is no longer growing JFK?
Delta has invested substantially in SEA, adding new routes, investing in D1 facilities, all throughout last year.
SEA is a smaller station, I wouldn't expect Delta to funnel 100% of its flights to it, that's part of network planning. You anyways...
I'm so lost, why does the addition of one route to LAX, automatically mean they are not growing another hub? For example, does BOS getting a flight mean Delta is no longer growing JFK?
Delta has invested substantially in SEA, adding new routes, investing in D1 facilities, all throughout last year.
SEA is a smaller station, I wouldn't expect Delta to funnel 100% of its flights to it, that's part of network planning. You anyways saw the other notes and rumors that SEA is also slated for Asia expansion, things happen sequentially, not all at once.
DL is in the process of creating two TPAC W.Coast hubs, SEA and LAX, in a few years LAX will emerge as the leader.
LAX already is "the leader." It's not even close.
SEA - Delta serves Tokyo, Shanghai, Seoul, and Taipei, from Seattle.
LAX - Delta serves Tokyo, Shanghai, Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane, Auckland; with Hong Kong and Manila announced publicly, and Seoul confirmed internally.
Singapore was also internally announced the same time as Manila, but not clarified from which gateway.
“ and Seoul confirmed internally.”
And we have another delta employee!
No wonder you didn’t refute my comment about sea-tpe profitability though it does explain why you have the expensive subscription to cirium ;)
You have a massive stereotype of the Philippines. You come off as ignorant.
Manila and the Philippines have a booming economy.
More and more American tourists are going to the Philippines to enjoy the amazing beach islands which are much better then Hawaii. And a good amount of them are premium travelers.
Maybe you should go to the Philippines and check it out yourself since you have never been to the Philippines.
"Maybe you should go to the Philippines and check it out yourself since you have never been to the Philippines."
He has been. He even connected from T2 to T1 on a bus and has flown PR's A359 to Toronto!
If you go to the Philippines, and all you see is parts of downtown Manila and the airport terminal (s), you've kind of missed the point.
I don't understand the confusion
1) In terms of LAX vs SEA, Delta flies more passengers to/from LAX than SEA. From what I can tell, Delta did about 14 million passengers to LAX in 2025 vs closer to 12 million at SEA. Delta also has newer facilities at LAX after the most recent renovations. LAX is a much larger city. Delta flies to most major markets from LAX, often with better/newer planes than it does...
I don't understand the confusion
1) In terms of LAX vs SEA, Delta flies more passengers to/from LAX than SEA. From what I can tell, Delta did about 14 million passengers to LAX in 2025 vs closer to 12 million at SEA. Delta also has newer facilities at LAX after the most recent renovations. LAX is a much larger city. Delta flies to most major markets from LAX, often with better/newer planes than it does to SEA. LAX is a clear hub for Delta. I would put it right below ATL, JFK/LGA, and I guess one of DTW/MSP. It's more important to the airline than SEA and SLC at this point, and has been for a while
2) The Philippines is a large country with a highly mobile population, and there probably is a lot of cargo involved as well. In terms of other Asia destinations, it seems like it is a better choice than places like Thailand and Vietnam in terms of consistent traffic.
Mike says, "UA has said MNL is a great success, it went to 2x daily very quickly, 2x 777-300 packed full with pax and cargo."
Best US to Asia hub/gateway, perfect plane (more seats & cargo), right times and incumbent advantages.
Not sure why you're confused. LAX is a huge market and DL's intention to maintain/grow its investment has been sufficiently demonstrated. One cannot compare the decisions made in an era of 767s deployed from SEA to one with more efficienet aircraft and changes in economic/demographic factors.
IMHO, LAX will be the primary gateway, where Asia growth will take place, particularly given its role as an Australasian gateway (LAX feed can serve multiple regions). Accordingly,...
Not sure why you're confused. LAX is a huge market and DL's intention to maintain/grow its investment has been sufficiently demonstrated. One cannot compare the decisions made in an era of 767s deployed from SEA to one with more efficienet aircraft and changes in economic/demographic factors.
IMHO, LAX will be the primary gateway, where Asia growth will take place, particularly given its role as an Australasian gateway (LAX feed can serve multiple regions). Accordingly, SEA will only see destinations demonstrably sustainable given the feed structure DL chooses to maintain and competition from AS/oneworld.
It would probably make more sense to fly Honolulu to Manila since there are so many Filipinos in Hawaii. But Delta served Manila via Tokyo until the pandemic. I believe they briefly pivoted to Seoul-Manila or at least announced it but never flew it.
That would make ZERO sense.
1. because the Filipino (first+second generation) population in Greater Los Angeles is more than 3x larger than metropolitan Honolulu (600,000 vs 214,000)
2. because DL would have to rotate the aircraft into HNL before they could send it to MNL (since the latter wouldn't be already served in a potential W-pattern), and there's no way they're going to do that with an A359
Hawaiian flew to Manila from 2008-2013, but were run out by PR due to the latter's aggressive pricing as well as high oil prices at the time. Oil prices being volatile right now doesn't help.
In the meantime, PR has applied to codeshare with AA with the latter's code on flights to LAX, SFO, SEA, JFK and upcoming ORD service while they already codeshare to HNL.
While Hawaii has a huge Filipino diaspora (multiple generations...
Hawaiian flew to Manila from 2008-2013, but were run out by PR due to the latter's aggressive pricing as well as high oil prices at the time. Oil prices being volatile right now doesn't help.
In the meantime, PR has applied to codeshare with AA with the latter's code on flights to LAX, SFO, SEA, JFK and upcoming ORD service while they already codeshare to HNL.
While Hawaii has a huge Filipino diaspora (multiple generations even), not many return back home hence PR using a mere A333.
I'll simply add ... corporate travel, cargo and Delta's loyalty base at LAX will make this a likely success. Unlike United (Kirby), Delta does not enter a market willy-nilly just for show. It is as calculated an airline as they get. I'm sure DL is forecasting success with HKG, MNL, and SIN long term with the A350 frames.
Did they forecast success on the Europe routes they cut? Anyone can forecast anything doesn’t mean it’s reality.
"Delta has put effort into growing in Seattle, especially across the Pacific, but that’s no longer the case." I would imagine Alaska and Delta have very limited options for the most part in Seattle given the space/gating constraints.
Morning, Ben,
feel free to post the data you used to come to the conclusion that MNL is trash yields. What you read on a.net isn't fact.
NW was the largest airline across the Pacific and at MNL for years. Their knowledge didn't just go away esp. since they have had access to MNL through their JV w/ KE.
As for the whole SEA vs. LAX hub, DL is the only carrier that has...
Morning, Ben,
feel free to post the data you used to come to the conclusion that MNL is trash yields. What you read on a.net isn't fact.
NW was the largest airline across the Pacific and at MNL for years. Their knowledge didn't just go away esp. since they have had access to MNL through their JV w/ KE.
As for the whole SEA vs. LAX hub, DL is the only carrier that has the potential to have two true west coast gateways to Asia at both LAX and SEA.
No one has ever doubted that UA has the TPAC superhub at SFO - but there is enormous opportunity to develop hubs elsewhere as well as to carry traffic from the interior US to E. Asia - something DL does better than any other US airline - and KE only builds on that for DL.
Even in UA's most recent leaked presentation, UA acknowledges that DL is the largest carrier at LAX. With ICN, DL would have become the largest int'l carrier at LAX. Adding MNL and/or SEA only adds icing to the cake.
The A350 is simply the better aircraft for LAX to deep into Asia and LAX will likely see a large share of the A350-1000s.
DL will do just fine in MNL, just as they will in HKG, and then keep adding.
oh, and DL will add whatever they do from SEA as soon as AS announces anything.
should be a fun day here....
So more BS and no facts, from dumbtim
"oh, and DL will add whatever they do from SEA as soon as AS announces anything."
If only Delta wasn't half the size with half the ability to match Alaska... facts are fun
"with half the ability to match Alaska... facts are fun"
Sure, but you're not doing yourself any favors either, with statements like that.
Delta actually has more access to widebody-capable gates at Seattle than Alaska does (they both can use C.U.T.E. gates in concourse-S, but Delta has several of its own at concourse-A that Alaska doesn't), in addition to more widebody aircraft. So how does that leave it with "half the ability to match Alaska"...
"with half the ability to match Alaska... facts are fun"
Sure, but you're not doing yourself any favors either, with statements like that.
Delta actually has more access to widebody-capable gates at Seattle than Alaska does (they both can use C.U.T.E. gates in concourse-S, but Delta has several of its own at concourse-A that Alaska doesn't), in addition to more widebody aircraft. So how does that leave it with "half the ability to match Alaska" in reference to long-haul?
Oh immortal
you are entertaining that you think AS won't have access to wide body gates when they want them as, by far, the largest tenant at SEA and already having coordinated with SEATAC about their longhaul expansion (with widebodies)
"Delta actually has more access to widebody-capable gates at Seattle than Alaska does "
seriously. Where do you delta fanboys/employees come up with this type of thing? Of course Delta has more access...
Oh immortal
you are entertaining that you think AS won't have access to wide body gates when they want them as, by far, the largest tenant at SEA and already having coordinated with SEATAC about their longhaul expansion (with widebodies)
"Delta actually has more access to widebody-capable gates at Seattle than Alaska does "
seriously. Where do you delta fanboys/employees come up with this type of thing? Of course Delta has more access today to wide body gates lol. They fly more widebodies than AS out of SEA today. That means nothing for next year.
""Delta actually has more access to widebody-capable gates at Seattle than Alaska does "
seriously. Where do you delta fanboys/employees come up with this type of thing?"
Seattle "S"-gates are CUTE, and DL has several converted gates in "A" that are its own proprietary use.
I understand that extrapolation isn't everyone's strong suit, but pretty sure that you're capable of figuring out how that comports to what I said. One would hope, anyway.
So DL’s strategy in SEA is to copy whatever AS does, but less successfully? Got it.
How is DL copying Alaska if Delta has more longhaul flights already?
That doesn't make any sense. Does Alaska fly to BCN, PVG, TPE, CDG, or AMS?
"oh, and DL will add whatever they do from SEA as soon as AS announces anything." -- Tim Dunn
Yolo, you and Tim really need to coordinate your responses. These replies about who is copying who...? They started because Tim Dunn
1. Believes Delta has the ability to match anything Alaska does in Seattle. They just do not which is also why they're half the size and why AS is bigger in market share...
"oh, and DL will add whatever they do from SEA as soon as AS announces anything." -- Tim Dunn
Yolo, you and Tim really need to coordinate your responses. These replies about who is copying who...? They started because Tim Dunn
1. Believes Delta has the ability to match anything Alaska does in Seattle. They just do not which is also why they're half the size and why AS is bigger in market share in SEA than before DL started their hub there
2. the entire premise from your buddy, Tim, that you've weirdly latched on to (good luck with that strategy) is that Delta can and will just copy anything Alaska does. Even your reply is ironic since one of the destinations you even mentioned was started by DL out of SEA because of the rumor of Alaska starting it lol -- but I noticed you were careful enough to exclude FCO from you list. Good thinking ;)
UA fought forever to get MNL slots and only got them with DOT help when PAL wanted to start SEA. DL is wisely doing the same thing, if PAL wants to start ORD we get to start LAX. The whole MNL yields are trash thing is overblown, UA has said MNL is a great success, it went to 2x daily very quickly, 2x 777-300 packed full with pax and cargo. DL will do great on this route.
Agreed. Cargo (and bag fees) alone do not a success make, but that revenue will certainly offset any low yields.
Yep need to consider cargo in the yield discussion.
On the pax demand side, 40% of the US Filipino diaspora is in California, esp LA, SF and San Diego. LAX is therefore a better option for premium fares with OD tickets vs connecting flights through SEA.
Don't forget Nevada especially Las Vegas alone.
True but that's a connecting flight, there's no specific advantage to connect in LAX vs SFO or SEA.
I don't get a hat tip for saying this for months if not years?! lol j/k
Anyway, the Philippine economy and incomes are steadily rising, and with the abundance of the Filipino diaspora in Southern California, it's not surprising to see more flights being added. I wouldn't be surprised if they increase their frequency once they do get going.
Aside from the entire region of Southern California, DL can grab connections from Nevada along with...
I don't get a hat tip for saying this for months if not years?! lol j/k
Anyway, the Philippine economy and incomes are steadily rising, and with the abundance of the Filipino diaspora in Southern California, it's not surprising to see more flights being added. I wouldn't be surprised if they increase their frequency once they do get going.
Aside from the entire region of Southern California, DL can grab connections from Nevada along with Texas and Seattle even with PR in the market.
In similar news, apparently PR plans to codeshare with AA on all of its U.S. flights. While I doubt it will be a precursor to oneworld, one can certainly speculate.
Tim Dunn is not happy.
say what?
I've been saying for years that we would see DL rebuild its TPAC network pretty aggressively.
We're now at a new route announcement every 4-6 months.
2 routes in 12 months and Tim says there's a new route every 4-6 months - United announced Sapporo a month ago and then Cartagena a week or so ago - you don't see anyone saying United is launching new international routes every 3 weeks!
Your logic is just soooooooo bad Tim.
A new route announced every 6 months and profitability not the same thing.
Delta has to make LAX work. It has spent billions.