Los Angeles International Airport (LAX) is unique in that it’s an airport where American, Delta, and United, all have a hub. It’s the only airport in the country where that’s the case. Over the years, we’ve seen the airlines take turns trying to beat out the competition, only to hemorrhage money, cut their losses, and go back to a more reasonable level of service.
Earlier I covered how Delta is investing in its lounge network at LAX, and wondered just how big the carrier’s plans at the airport were. Well, we’re now getting more of a sense of what this could look like.
In this post:
Delta’s plan to become LAX’s number one airline, by far
JonNYC has some insights on Delta’s latest strategy at LAX. It’s pretty clear that LAX is the new hub that Delta is most focused on. He shares a screenshot of the following text (I’m not sure who it is from, but I’d assume it’s a reliable source):
Delta has a once in a generation opportunity to accelerate leadership position at LAX. American, historically the leader, stepped back in recent years. AA has shed 10 points of corporate share and has a disruptive six-year terminal renovation underway. Meanwhile, Southwest is pulling back, JetBlue has shrunk to half its former size, and Alaska is shifting its focus to San Diego. United is the only remaining viable competitor but is limited by gate constraints and sub-par facilities for the foreseeable future.
That narrative is completely right, and there’s nothing there that I disagree with. So, what will Delta’s growth at LAX be centered around?
- Shortly, we’re going to see Delta launch flights to Hong Kong (HKG), and in 2027 we’re supposed to see a new route to Manila (MNL)
- Delta also reportedly plans to increase Shanghai (PVG) flights to daily, make Auckland (AKL) flights year-round, and also launch service to Seoul Incheon (ICN)
- The goal is also to have a much more comprehensive network within North America, including serving business markets, higher yield leisure markets, etc.; for example, we’re talking markets like LAX to Chicago (ORD)
- Given that the airline industry has evolved, one would assume that a primary motive is to also massively increase loyalty and credit card revenue in the local market
Delta’s goals are probably possible, but are they profitable?
I think everything Delta is suggesting is fair for the most part. Delta definitely has the best facility at LAX, and there’s no denying that the airline could increase its lead at LAX, though obviously the airport will never turn into a fortress hub.
The question isn’t whether Delta can grow its presence at LAX, but rather it’s a question of whether this is the best use of resources, and how profitable this could be in the long term.
As much as markets like Los Angeles and New York (JFK) sound sexy, they’re typically not actually very profitable for airlines. They’re expensive airports to operate out of, and airlines can’t scale their networks to turn them into fortress hubs. For that matter, coastal cities aren’t ideal for efficiently funneling connecting passengers (at least if you’re not connecting over an ocean).
American loves Charlotte (CLT) and Dallas (DFW), Delta loves Atlanta (ATL) and Detroit (DTW), United loves Denver (DEN) and Houston (IAH). These are all massive, super efficient, fortress hubs, with great geography. Furthermore, thanks to the dominance each airline has at those hubs, they’re also super lucrative for credit card revenue, due to the popularity of co-brand cards.
Great, so what’s my issue? Well, I just question what the end goal is here for Delta?
- Yipee, Delta adding Seoul Incheon flights is a nothing-burger, since joint venture partner Korean Air operates that route multiple times per day; Delta has a much higher cost structure, and if you’re going to tell me otherwise, please explain why Delta doesn’t fly from LAX to London (LHR)
- Delta is going to bleed money on its new Hong Kong route and Manila route when it launches, and I’d love for someone to argue that there’s any planet on which Delta flying year-round to Auckland is going to be profitable
- The amount of international competition among so many airlines at LAX greatly suppresses fares, and that’s why the “big three” have struggled with making LAX interesting
- From a loyalty and credit card perspective, I think Los Angeles is too scattered of a market in terms of consumer travel patterns for any airline to be truly dominant with credit card revenue
That’s my take, at least. Sure, Delta can grow there, but I don’t think Delta can get to the point where it says “yep, we’ve made LAX work, and now we’re printing money here.” Some will certainly argue that sometimes there’s a strategic interest here. But again, that’s also the case in Seattle (SEA), and to a lesser extent, Austin (AUS).
Bottom line
Delta really seems to be serious about growing its presence at LAX. We’ve seen the airline already announce some new long haul flying, and it sounds like there’s more on the way, along with a more comprehensive domestic network.
That’s all fair enough, and this growth is possible. My only concern is that I don’t think LAX is a market that can be “won.” Of course the “big three” US carriers all see the importance of having a presence there, but actually operating there profitably is challenging, given the amount of competition.
It just seems like all the long haul flying that Delta is looking at adding will be rather unprofitable, given that it’ll go head-to-head against foreign carriers with much lower cost structures, all while having to price attractively, and not actually having majority market share at the airport. This will definitely be something to watch…
What do you make of Delta’s LAX goals?
At this point I’m convinced Tim is a United plant
that's funny right there.
I do manage to flush out the UA nut jobs, don't I?
LTD says, "DL's operating profit in the 1st quarter of 2026 was larger than UA's."
It is amazing how consistently and demonstrably wrong you can be.
Q1 2026 Operating income ($m)
UA: 998
DL: 501
https://ir.united.com/static-files/ae05c4dc-5732-41bb-82d8-c0bc7bc4797f
https://d18rn0p25nwr6d.cloudfront.net/CIK-0000027904/b3340125-41e1-4a7c-98b3-93db57cdfd87.pdf
it's pathetically sad that you don't know what this line means
Special charges (credits) (389)
DAL also includes MRO and refinery expense in its income statement.
again, your incessant and desperate attempt to cherrypick data to prove me wrong proves only how insecure you are.
let's not forget that UA STILL was working at the benefit of underpaid labor in 1Q2026 and before fuel prices surged.
DAL outperformed UAL on profits by $1.6 billion...
it's pathetically sad that you don't know what this line means
Special charges (credits) (389)
DAL also includes MRO and refinery expense in its income statement.
again, your incessant and desperate attempt to cherrypick data to prove me wrong proves only how insecure you are.
let's not forget that UA STILL was working at the benefit of underpaid labor in 1Q2026 and before fuel prices surged.
DAL outperformed UAL on profits by $1.6 billion in 2025 and you think a few accounting tricks for both DL and UA in 1Q2026 change the outcome?
How about you tell us how well UA will do relative to DL by the end of 2026, son?
And the relevance of all of this is that you desperately want to believe that UA has the financial strength to stand up to DL as DL grows LAX.
The ONE airline that UA has consistently not responded to is DL.
If there was any "stand my ground" that UA should have done, it would have been DL's addition of LAX-ORD and LAX-HKG.
That is as much of a sucker punch as DL can give or UA can receive - but UA did nothing.
DL is coming for UA's jugular at LAX.
I am fully prepared for you and everyone else's manipulations and misstatements over the next 5 years and esp. the next 3 but I can assure you that DL will be a substantially larger airline on the west coast and esp. at LAX relative to UA.
UA simply does not have the financial strength to stand up to DL and no one at UA has indicated they are going to take on DL; they are fighting AA, WN and all of the ULCCs, though
Wow! Lot of words to distract from the fact that you were completely incorrect when you said, "DL's operating profit in the 1st quarter of 2026 was larger than UA's."
Wrong again & again & again. So much LTD misinformation.
UA: $998m v DL: $501m operating income. For Tim, 998 > 501.
DL 44% higher cancellation rate than UA in Q1 2026
Wrong on how many aircraft UA has & how many...
Wow! Lot of words to distract from the fact that you were completely incorrect when you said, "DL's operating profit in the 1st quarter of 2026 was larger than UA's."
Wrong again & again & again. So much LTD misinformation.
UA: $998m v DL: $501m operating income. For Tim, 998 > 501.
DL 44% higher cancellation rate than UA in Q1 2026
Wrong on how many aircraft UA has & how many WBs are in temp storage.
LAX is not United's biggest feeder for SFO. It is mostly pt to pt traffic.
UA does not use 737-900ERs on EWR-LAX.
Poor little Tim can't seem to make sense of things. The cognitive dissonance must be excruciating for the little fella.
In your glee to prove me wrong, you FAILED to note that UA had higher operating income in the first quarter of 2025 - and yet ended the year with $1.6 billion LESS NET income.
Wanna explain how that happened?
I have been playing in the aviation internet space for a quarter of a century.
More significantly, I picked the airline that I thought would have the brightest future over 50 years.
...
In your glee to prove me wrong, you FAILED to note that UA had higher operating income in the first quarter of 2025 - and yet ended the year with $1.6 billion LESS NET income.
Wanna explain how that happened?
I have been playing in the aviation internet space for a quarter of a century.
More significantly, I picked the airline that I thought would have the brightest future over 50 years.
Delta, at that time, was the 6th largest airline and primarily a southern, domestic airline.
Delta today is the most profitable US airline and has the highest market cap and total revenue of any airline - even though other airlines fly more capacity.
United, on the other hand, has a long, rich history but has consistently bounced between underperformance and never-quite-enough-to win.
Scott Kirby came along convinced he could break UA's cycle and send the company to the top of the airline industry - and yet 10 years later, UA is still an also ran to DL.
UA's internet active employees, just like Kirby, are some of the most arrogant and insecure people on the planet - convinced they are right and yet consistently unable to explain why UA can't and doesn't lead the US airline industry
Instead, UA runs mid-tier operations and is smack between AA and DL in profitability when you consider that UA has had a huge labor cost advantage for 5 years.
THat advantage is coming to an end, high fuel prices mean growth is going to be much less possible, and UA has massive commitments coming both from new aircraft and new facilities - which is why they are resorting to more and more sale/leaseback transactions. UA's cash flow will fall dramatically.
As hard as it is for you to accept, DL has UA exactly where it wants it for DL to be able to go for the most choice parts of UA's network - the Pacific and esp. from the west coast.
DL committed to the 35K while UA was fighting with Rolls Royce so UA will have no ultra long haul capable large widebody for at least 5 years - and likely even longer.
Whlie you ruminate on how UA managed to outperform DL in profits a year ago and yet end up w/ $1.6 billion less profits for the year, you might want to finally let it soak into your thick head that DL just might have checkmated UA.
More projection and verbose distraction. I recommend you stop making assertion after assertion that are obviously and demonstrably false. While you are at it you might consider not making absurd predictions also.
TD's top 10 worst predictions/falsehoods.
1. DL can get Boeing delivery slots whenever they want them.
2. DL doesn't need aircraft in the near term.
3. DL is going to get Riyadh Air's close-in 787 delivery slots.
4....
More projection and verbose distraction. I recommend you stop making assertion after assertion that are obviously and demonstrably false. While you are at it you might consider not making absurd predictions also.
TD's top 10 worst predictions/falsehoods.
1. DL can get Boeing delivery slots whenever they want them.
2. DL doesn't need aircraft in the near term.
3. DL is going to get Riyadh Air's close-in 787 delivery slots.
4. DL's A220 delivery delays are a swap for Air Asia's cancelled A339s slots.
5. UA permanently lost NYC share leadership after spring 2025.
6. DL Tech Ops headed to $1B profit in next few years. Currently, $71m.
7. Amazon LEO will be better than Starlink. When?
8. DL leads BOS in market share.
9. UA uses 739s on EWR-LAX transcons.
10. DL is the leading US airline operationally and financially.
UA: $998m v DL: $501m operating income. For Tim, 998 > 501.
DL 44% higher cancellation rate than UA in Q1 2026
Wrong on how many aircraft UA has & how many WBs are in temp storage.
LAX is not United's biggest feeder for SFO. It is mostly pt to pt traffic.
as I previously noted, you are incapable of admitting the big picture - which is that UA has not been able to eliminate the earnings gap w/ DL despite having the best setup over the past 5 years - low fuel costs, a weak ULCC sector, and billions of dollars in "loans" from labor that are now set to be repaid.
because you can't admit that UA has not and will not be at parity...
as I previously noted, you are incapable of admitting the big picture - which is that UA has not been able to eliminate the earnings gap w/ DL despite having the best setup over the past 5 years - low fuel costs, a weak ULCC sector, and billions of dollars in "loans" from labor that are now set to be repaid.
because you can't admit that UA has not and will not be at parity with DL, you nitpick on details as if that will ruin my credibility.
Newsflash, son: I have nothing to do with DL's strategies. They will do what they do regardless of my input or yours.
You might think you are accomplishing something by shutting down a DL fan - (Max can't explain how someone that got fired from DL is their supposed #1 internet fan) - but your keyboard banging accomplishes nothing.
I am just cheering for the airline that I was convinced decades ago had the brightest future - and I was right.
and the sad thing is that you truly don't even realize how wrong you are about so many of the things on your list - even w/o manipulating what I said to try to make yourself look better.
just.
walk.
away.
You are a fool and you are cheered on by a bunch of fools that still cling to the notion that UA is and will be a true contender to DL.
DL will clean UA's clock in LAX and in the TPAC west coast market.
I have been waiting for years for this to happen and can't wait to see it play out.
"I have nothing to do with DL's strategies. They will do what they do regardless of my input"
Admitting it is the first step. Good for you.
"I am just cheering for the airline that I was convinced decades ago had the brightest future - and I was right."
Yikes! Best of luck with your issues.
and yet you can't explain how UA managed to outperform DL LAST year in the 1st quarter but ended up with a $1.6 billion earnings deficit by the end of the year.
now, tell us again, how UA managed to skid from a 1st quarter earnings advantage to earning just 2/3 of what DL earned for the year.
And I am certain you won't tell us how far ahead UA will be in earnings for...
and yet you can't explain how UA managed to outperform DL LAST year in the 1st quarter but ended up with a $1.6 billion earnings deficit by the end of the year.
now, tell us again, how UA managed to skid from a 1st quarter earnings advantage to earning just 2/3 of what DL earned for the year.
And I am certain you won't tell us how far ahead UA will be in earnings for all of 2026, now will you?
You're a hypocrite looking for the speck in someone else's eye while being incapable of seeing the log in your own.
You
are
to be
PITIED
we managed to break the 200 reply post.
Now the fun part will be watching this all play out.
DL will use its financial strength and its unmatched track record of building hubs in competitive markets to grow TPAC and esp. from LAX.
DL will be ready to add anything from SEA that AS tries to add but AS simply does not have the bandwidth to add much if any new international flights.
UA made...
we managed to break the 200 reply post.
Now the fun part will be watching this all play out.
DL will use its financial strength and its unmatched track record of building hubs in competitive markets to grow TPAC and esp. from LAX.
DL will be ready to add anything from SEA that AS tries to add but AS simply does not have the bandwidth to add much if any new international flights.
UA made just 2/3 of what DL made in 2025 and has to contend with much higher fuel and labor costs in 2026 and commitments to growing other hubs.
DL is seizing an opportunity that no other carrier can match esp. at LAX.
fun times ahead
I cannot calculate how much more profit United made in the 1Q this year vs. Delta - because you cannot divide $900M by zero.
Oh - wait. I'm wrong. Delta didn't make "zero" profit. They actually posted a LOSS of $214M.
as usual, you and others want to cherrypick a single datapoint to overcome a clear and obvious trend over a larger period of time.
DL's operating profit in the 1st quarter of 2026 was larger than UA's.
DL took a hit because of the value of its equity investments - a non-cash charge.
UA got a "bonus" because it did sale/leaseback transactions - which added debt but made its income statement look better. I...
as usual, you and others want to cherrypick a single datapoint to overcome a clear and obvious trend over a larger period of time.
DL's operating profit in the 1st quarter of 2026 was larger than UA's.
DL took a hit because of the value of its equity investments - a non-cash charge.
UA got a "bonus" because it did sale/leaseback transactions - which added debt but made its income statement look better. I would hardly argue that adding debt in the long term to show higher income in the short term is a great financial move. It is what UA had to do given its massive order book and reduced cash flow and they will undoubtedly be doing more of the same.
DL has consistently been a more profitable airline and that will expand on an apples to apples basis in the quarters ahead as UA pays more for fuel and labor.
My mistake.
Never get into a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.
It is fun to get into a fight with sTD on comments because he ALWAYS loses since he just makes statements with no backup and is easily shown to be an idiot on just about anything. Who amongst us doesn't enjoy an easy win every time?
The irony is I genuinely don't think he has the mental acuity to realize how dumb he looks.
But you do have to have the easy day for...
It is fun to get into a fight with sTD on comments because he ALWAYS loses since he just makes statements with no backup and is easily shown to be an idiot on just about anything. Who amongst us doesn't enjoy an easy win every time?
The irony is I genuinely don't think he has the mental acuity to realize how dumb he looks.
But you do have to have the easy day for it because Tim has no life whatsoever and just will try to reply with 100 unrelated comments to attempt to extinguish the absolute dumpster fire he creates for himself when a child could prove him wrong.
it is even more fun to argue w/ people that are convinced they are right and the evidence is flat out against them.
the most pathetic part is that Max incessantly turns discussions into personal attacks because HE, not me, is incapable of discussing the facts.
see below for a discussion of the facts of the case.
The fact that you can't accept them speaks volumes about you two, not me.
Wow - he didn't even call you out by name.
And yet, somehow you knew...
when he says the same thing a million times by name, it is clear who he is talking to.
and when he is dead wrong in the assertions he makes, I will be the one that calls him out.
Manipulating what was said in order to try to prove someone wrong may look good to them but that is precisely what I will fight back against.
I do think this article misses a key marketing point that Delta can potentially drive with LAX (and seems apparent in the way they are building out their LAX presence), which is the fact that they could potentially command a material revenue premium and passenger preference out of LAX by establishing themselves as the 'premium' US carrier at LAX. If they successfully leverage their established brand, paired with the material investments in Delta One lounges,...
I do think this article misses a key marketing point that Delta can potentially drive with LAX (and seems apparent in the way they are building out their LAX presence), which is the fact that they could potentially command a material revenue premium and passenger preference out of LAX by establishing themselves as the 'premium' US carrier at LAX. If they successfully leverage their established brand, paired with the material investments in Delta One lounges, the Delta One experience at LAX, etc., I could definitely see them becoming the preferential airline of less price sensitive travelers (business and leisure), leading to them achieving more of a revenue premium that could justify an expanded flight presence and increased marketshare.
United could attempt this but the structural challenges they have with their setup limit the ability to successfully execute that strategy and I think they would be more likely to lose money on that approach than Delta.
you are correct but the bigger issue is that DL has access to gates now including via the TBIT which no other carrier can match. AA and AS have gates closed for rebuilding.
UA is on the "wrong end" of the airport in terms of gates.
and then there are the financial and competitive reasons below.
DL simply has a LIST of advantages which no other carrier can match
Your mistake is assuming the other airlines won't respond with changes themselves. If Delta produces some growth in LAX, the other airlines WILL respond with similar growth also.
How, with limited gate space? Spirit's demise left gates to fight over. United leased gates to Alaska in Terminal 6 many years ago, but that wasn't permanent, and could get them back. New gate space is coming, and maybe even new terminals in the years to come...
Your mistake is assuming the other airlines won't respond with changes themselves. If Delta produces some growth in LAX, the other airlines WILL respond with similar growth also.
How, with limited gate space? Spirit's demise left gates to fight over. United leased gates to Alaska in Terminal 6 many years ago, but that wasn't permanent, and could get them back. New gate space is coming, and maybe even new terminals in the years to come (terminal "zero" and terminal "nine" plans are still on the books, but just not funded yet). Space remains to use for international arrivals in the West remote parking. Airlines can upgauge flights (Southwest can concentrate -800s/Max8s in LAX instead of the -700s, for example). There's lots of ways to counter Delta's moves in LAX. If Delta tries to grow too much, too fast, the FAA/DOT could even step in and cap flights, stopping Delta's growth in its tracks, just like they did in ORD.
Bottom line, the competition to Delta (all the competition - not just United or American) will not just sit by and yield market share in LAX. They will make moves of their own. No business operates in a vacuum.
I know you want to argue but gate space is only part of the issue as I highlighted.
WN is not growing LAX.
Your dreams about LAX overgrowing are what has happened at UA hubs, not because of DL's growth.
DL is ready to focus on growing LAX and has the financial strength to do so.
Nobody expects anyone to sit by and allow a competitor to grow - but other airlines do not have...
I know you want to argue but gate space is only part of the issue as I highlighted.
WN is not growing LAX.
Your dreams about LAX overgrowing are what has happened at UA hubs, not because of DL's growth.
DL is ready to focus on growing LAX and has the financial strength to do so.
Nobody expects anyone to sit by and allow a competitor to grow - but other airlines do not have the strategic or financial bandwidth to do what DL is proposing to do - even as much as we know.
It is clear that you cannot accept that DL very well might succeed at what I predicted years ago but why don't you sit tight a couple years and then come back and tell me if I am wrong? I expect you will have moved onto another user name by then.
It doesn't really matter how much you bang the keyboard in protest about DL's plans or that it was what I have been predicting for years. DL will do at LAX what it has done in multiple other competitive hubs.
@ Tim Dunn -- We're waiting to learn which EWR-LAX frequencies UA operates with 737-900ERs, please!! These are the important details!
"...what I predicted years ago but why don't you sit tight a couple years and then come back and tell me if I am wrong?"
Please. We all know who is the expert at ignoring what was predicted and when it turns out they are wrong.
Take a look in the mirror, my friend.
first, I am glad you can call me friend.
And second, I have every right to state that I have said for years that DL would build its TPAC operation and it would focus on LAX as part of that process.
Those are both happening.
the problem you and others continually make is that you continue to manipulate what I actually have said in order to pretend that I didn't accurately say what I...
first, I am glad you can call me friend.
And second, I have every right to state that I have said for years that DL would build its TPAC operation and it would focus on LAX as part of that process.
Those are both happening.
the problem you and others continually make is that you continue to manipulate what I actually have said in order to pretend that I didn't accurately say what I did.
I do appreciate that you are accepting that internet social media including me and you isn't going to have any influence in the outcome of what DL does at LAX and what anyone else might or might not choose to do in response, no matter how successful they might be.
Ah, yes. Delta orders planes, and you successfully predicted that the Delta hub with the lowest market share would be a target for growth. Brilliant!
What you are also predicting - and what I think most commenters disagree with - is that:
1) Delta will dominate LAX
2) Delta will turn LAX into a hub similar to United in SFO
3) Delta will have more Asia/Pacific flying and/or traffic than United
Is that...
Ah, yes. Delta orders planes, and you successfully predicted that the Delta hub with the lowest market share would be a target for growth. Brilliant!
What you are also predicting - and what I think most commenters disagree with - is that:
1) Delta will dominate LAX
2) Delta will turn LAX into a hub similar to United in SFO
3) Delta will have more Asia/Pacific flying and/or traffic than United
Is that correct? Because those highly optimistic predictions are what we'd like to hear about in 3-5 years...
Still waiting.
1) Delta will dominate LAX
2) Delta will turn LAX into a hub similar to United in SFO
3) Delta will have more Asia/Pacific flying and/or traffic than United
Are those your predictions I can reference later?
start w/ accurately reading and quoting what was said, not what you want to have been said so you can argue against it.
1. Ben, not me, used the word "dominate" to describe what DL wants to do. It is right in the title.
I specifically said that no carrier has dominated LAX.
2. nowhere did I say that DL at LAX will become anywhere close to UA at SFO. I have said -...
start w/ accurately reading and quoting what was said, not what you want to have been said so you can argue against it.
1. Ben, not me, used the word "dominate" to describe what DL wants to do. It is right in the title.
I specifically said that no carrier has dominated LAX.
2. nowhere did I say that DL at LAX will become anywhere close to UA at SFO. I have said - repeatedly which is all the more reason to be concerned about your mental acuity - that DL is going to pick off the top markets and that is a concern for UA because LAX is by far the largest feeder market for UA at SFO.
3. Nowhere did I speak about total TPAC but rather about LAX and even with the flights that have already been announced or planned by DL execs, DL will have more TPAC flying from LAX than UA.
You would do well to reference what was said - not what you want to have been said so that you can argue against what I said later.
and, btw, DL is already the largest US carrier outside of CA to E. Asia because of DL's size at HND and its size to ICN; DL has flights from SEA, MSP, DTW, and ATL to each of those cities right now. DTW also has PVG. LAX has HND and SLC has ICN.
UA has doubled and tripled down on California to Asia which is why DL's moves are hitting them where they are most vulnerable
DL will continue to grow from the eastern US but will take away a portion of UA's advantage from CA.
you two would do well to watch what happens...
In this thread - you said the following:
it will be a great couple years to watch as AA stays put in ORD and DL cleans UA's clock in California
Please define for us what cleaning UAs clock in California means in your terms so we can actually then track this over the next 2-3 years.
UA is the largest international carrier at LAX right now; that will fall.
LAX is a huge flow market for UA's hub at SFO. DL will pick off more and more of that traffic.
Great - I dont know if that meets the bar of cleaning their clock but at least something we can evaluate in three years time.
"Start w/ accurately reading and quoting what was said, not what you want to have been said so you can argue against it."
Okay. My summation of your points, vs. what you've actually said.
1) Delta will dominate LAX
You said: "1. Ben, not me, used the word "dominate" to describe what DL wants to do."
Um, okay. Quote:
"Tim Dunn Diamond
June 5, 2026, 10:27 am
...As hard as it is for...
"Start w/ accurately reading and quoting what was said, not what you want to have been said so you can argue against it."
Okay. My summation of your points, vs. what you've actually said.
1) Delta will dominate LAX
You said: "1. Ben, not me, used the word "dominate" to describe what DL wants to do."
Um, okay. Quote:
"Tim Dunn Diamond
June 5, 2026, 10:27 am
...As hard as it is for you and others to accept, DL will move into a more dominant role at LAX than any other US carrier has had for years, if ever."
Quote:
"Tim Dunn Diamond
June 3, 2026, 4:39 pm
LAX has never been dominated because no airline has had the financial wherewithall to gain the share necessary to win over the market. DL is set to do that - and use its unique financial benefits from Amex, the refinery and the MRO - which its JV partners do not have, btw - to do what no US airline can do."
Wow. Found you claiming Delta will dominate LAX twice, this thread only. Next...
2) Delta will turn LAX into a hub similar to United in SFO
You said: "2. nowhere did I say that DL at LAX will become anywhere close to UA at SFO."
Um, okay. Quote:
"Tim Dunn Diamond
June 4, 2026, 6:42 pm
The UA butthurt is only going to get a whole lot worse over the next 3 years as DL not only will become the most international flights to go with its airport leadership of domestic travel but DL will siphon off UA's biggest feeder market for SFO."
Quote:
"Tim Dunn Diamond
June 4, 2026, 4:28 pm
And United’s San Francisco hub will have its biggest flow market switch sides to Delta"
So you expect Delta to increase LAX at the expense of United in SFO - but are going to stick with the claim that you DIDN'T say Delta would turn LAX into a hub SIMILAR to SFO? Even though you believe Delta will have a huge international presence there? (See your #3)L:
3) Delta will have more Asia/Pacific flying and/or traffic than United
You said: "3. Nowhere did I speak about total TPAC but rather about LAX"
Quote:
" Tim Dunn Diamond
June 4, 2026, 8:25 am
I love that fluff and you can’t admit that Delta Albert took American at LAX as the largest airline and is going to submit its lead as the largest international carrier as well"
(no qualifier that you meant "LAX international carrier")
Quote:
"Tim Dunn Diamond
June 3, 2026, 4:39 pm
...and the implication is that UA's hub up the road at SFO will be much less certain given that there will be a 2nd genuine global hub in California...DL will have a much more global network."
(No qualifier that you were talking about an "LAX International" network)
Your words, not mine. And I didn't even have to search the other articles' comments to find your inconsistencies. As usual.
Your move.
@TD: (quote) "start w/ accurately reading and quoting what was said, not what you want to have been said so you can argue against it. ... You would do well to reference what was said - not what you want to have been said so that you can argue against what I said later."
Challenge Accepted. Here's what I said to sum up your views and predictions, and here's what you actually said in posts....
@TD: (quote) "start w/ accurately reading and quoting what was said, not what you want to have been said so you can argue against it. ... You would do well to reference what was said - not what you want to have been said so that you can argue against what I said later."
Challenge Accepted. Here's what I said to sum up your views and predictions, and here's what you actually said in posts. Let's see if I got it right.
I'll do it one-at-a-time (one per post) to be sure you don't miss any details.
***********
I summed your views as: 1) Delta will dominate LAX
You countered with: "Ben, not me, used the word "dominate" to describe what DL wants to do."
(Quote:)
Tim Dunn Diamond
June 5, 2026, 10:27 am
"...As hard as it is for you and others to accept, DL will move into a more dominant role at LAX than any other US carrier has had for years, if ever...."
(Quote:)
Tim Dunn Diamond
June 3, 2026, 4:39 pm
"...LAX has never been dominated because no airline has had the financial wherewithall to gain the share necessary to win over the market. DL is set to do that - and use its unique financial benefits from Amex, the refinery and the MRO - which its JV partners do not have, btw - to do what no US airline can do..."
(Quote:)
Tim Dunn Diamond
June 4, 2026, 1:46 pm
"...But we are talking about Los Angeles right now and it will be Delta that will finish off united at Los Angeles"
(Quote:)
Tim Dunn Diamond
June 4, 2026, 2:53 am
"...this is about DL gaining the upper hand at LAX and it is primarily about DL taking that opportunity from UA forever."
(Quote:)
Tim Dunn Diamond
June 5, 2026, 4:37 pm
"DL is coming for UA's jugular at LAX."
******
I'd say a summation of your prediction, after reading your posts, is you think "Delta will dominate LAX". You even used versions of the word "dominate" twice, so...
@TD: (quote) "start w/ accurately reading and quoting what was said, not what you want to have been said so you can argue against it. ... You would do well to reference what was said - not what you want to have been said so that you can argue against what I said later."
Continuing, let's look at #2.
I summed up your predictions with: "2) Delta will turn LAX into a hub similar to...
@TD: (quote) "start w/ accurately reading and quoting what was said, not what you want to have been said so you can argue against it. ... You would do well to reference what was said - not what you want to have been said so that you can argue against what I said later."
Continuing, let's look at #2.
I summed up your predictions with: "2) Delta will turn LAX into a hub similar to United in SFO"
You countered with: "...nowhere did I say that DL at LAX will become anywhere close to UA at SFO...DL is going to pick off the top markets and that is a concern for UA because LAX is by far the largest feeder market for UA at SFO."
Well, I'd certainly argue against "LAX is the largest feeder market of UA at SFO"... but let's go to the tape on what you actually posted about this one.
*******
(Quote:)
Tim Dunn Diamond
June 5, 2026, 2:50 pm
"UA is the largest international carrier at LAX right now; that will fall."
(Quote:)
Tim Dunn Diamond
June 5, 2026, 8:54 am
"As I noted years ago, DL would grow LAX and its Pacific network to remove the one structural advantage that UA has had... DL is now focused on overtaking UA at LAX and buiding a viable competitive hub to SFO at LAX."
(Quote:)
Tim Dunn Diamond
June 4, 2026, 8:24 pm
"...Just like United’s horrible baggage handling, you’ll accept that Delta will take out united in California"
(Quote:)
Tim Dunn Diamond
June 4, 2026, 6:42 pm
"The UA butthurt is only going to get a whole lot worse over the next 3 years as DL not only will become the most international flights to go with its airport leadership of domestic travel but DL will siphon off UA's biggest feeder market for SFO."
(Quote:)
Tim Dunn Diamond
June 4, 2026, 8:25 am
"I love that fluff and you can’t admit that Delta Albert took American at LAX as the largest airline and is going to submit its lead as the largest international carrier as well"
(Quote:)
Tim Dunn Diamond
June 3, 2026, 4:39 pm
"...and the implication is that UA's hub up the road at SFO will be much less certain given that there will be a 2nd genuine global hub in California."
******
So your own words say United's SFO hub will be "much less certain", that Delta will be the "largest international carrier as well", Delta will "take out United in California" and Delta will siphon off United's SFO traffic.
Tell me again how I was wrong again in summing all of your points as, "2) Delta will turn LAX into a hub similar to United in SFO"?
Maybe I was wrong because you think Delta will build LAX into a hub BIGGER than United in SFO?
I don't have time right now for #3 right now - but, trust me. You've said Delta will have more Asia/Pacific flights than United.
Since it was mentioned below:
it's 6 month old info but still as of 1/1/2026
AA: 1,013 Mainline aircraft; 567 regionals = 1,580
DL: 989 Mainline aircraft, 325 regionals = 1,314
UA: 1,066 Mainline aircraft, 424 Regionals = 1,490
We know you are hellbent on trying to argue against what I predicted would happen - this announcement but none of what you post matters one iota regarding LAX.
DL's opportunity at LAX is related to its growth potential across the Pacific and the ability to add domestic markets that it believes it needs to serve.
We have a pretty good idea what international TPAC markets DL will focus on from LAX because they have...
We know you are hellbent on trying to argue against what I predicted would happen - this announcement but none of what you post matters one iota regarding LAX.
DL's opportunity at LAX is related to its growth potential across the Pacific and the ability to add domestic markets that it believes it needs to serve.
We have a pretty good idea what international TPAC markets DL will focus on from LAX because they have said so.
SIN is still a wildcard but I am betting that DL is focusing on MNL first because they can get in there now and want to keep SEA-SYD and SEA-SIN on the possibility list if AS decides to announce them.
There are a number of other airline hubs that DL does not serve from LAX as well as some midwest markets that DL has served but doesn't now.
DL will be growing LAX and has the financial strength to do so.
As hard as it is for you and others to accept, DL will move into a more dominant role at LAX than any other US carrier has had for years, if ever.
Tim
you need mental help when you reply with 7 paragraphs to me on a post about fleet size lol
"As hard as it is for you and others to accept, DL will move into a more dominant role at LAX than any other US carrier has had for years, if ever."
Let us know where they're finding those gates.
Pending orders:
AA: 300 (22 WB/278 NB)
DL: 322 (85 WB/237 NB)
UA: 643 (180WB/463 NB)
Delta will remain 3rd in fleet size.
again, meaningless regarding LAX.
and you still can't or won't address the fact that DL generates more revenue by flying less capacity but getting more revenue.
and specific to fleet, DL's 35K order can and will do more for competitive TPAC routes than what any other airline has because the 35K is simply the most capable and efficient ultra long haul capable aircraft. no amount of 787s will do what 20 35Ks can do from...
again, meaningless regarding LAX.
and you still can't or won't address the fact that DL generates more revenue by flying less capacity but getting more revenue.
and specific to fleet, DL's 35K order can and will do more for competitive TPAC routes than what any other airline has because the 35K is simply the most capable and efficient ultra long haul capable aircraft. no amount of 787s will do what 20 35Ks can do from LAX - and the size of DL's 35K fleet is certain to grow larger than 20 aircraft - which are coming pretty quickly over the next 3 years
"DL generates more revenue by flying less capacity but getting more revenue."
Not true. Another falsehood issued by TD. Delta earned $340 in revenue per passenger in 2025. United earned $355 in revenue per passenger in 2025. Delta's higher total profits came from flying more passengers, not by earning more money per passenger.
Time to put that lie of yours to bed with all the others. You are entitled to your own opinions, but not your own facts.
again, you ignore and manipulate the data that you don't like.
I said nothing about number of passengers carried.
I did talk about capacity.
You - under any number of other user names - incessantly talk about capacity as measured in ASMs.
UA's total revenue per ASM trails DL.
it is so fun to argue with you because you think you can get by wiht manipulating data and yet consistently get caught.
YOU...
again, you ignore and manipulate the data that you don't like.
I said nothing about number of passengers carried.
I did talk about capacity.
You - under any number of other user names - incessantly talk about capacity as measured in ASMs.
UA's total revenue per ASM trails DL.
it is so fun to argue with you because you think you can get by wiht manipulating data and yet consistently get caught.
YOU are the liar and it is all rooted in your inability to accept that DL runs a superior business and airline to UA
the irony of a guy fired by Delta constantly coming on to the website to claim credit for what they do...
Called out by Rebel for being wrong on about 8 separate predictions to include what he's mentioning below..
but still doubles down on the same idiotic statements...
And without any mental comprehension or situational awareness to admit when he's wrong or to do basic math or the difference between a basis...
the irony of a guy fired by Delta constantly coming on to the website to claim credit for what they do...
Called out by Rebel for being wrong on about 8 separate predictions to include what he's mentioning below..
but still doubles down on the same idiotic statements...
And without any mental comprehension or situational awareness to admit when he's wrong or to do basic math or the difference between a basis point and a percent
what a sad sad life...
Mr "Delta is consolidating its West Coast to Latin America dominance"... by pulling back 30% yoy lol
what a buffoon.
the stupidity of someone thinking that I was fired by a company and then becomes their supposed #1 internet fan.
You never make sense about anything, microbrain but that assertion is the dumbest of them all
So you were NOT fired by Delta? You're still getting paid by them?
They are not getting their money's worth.
as I've always said... it's an easy thing to prove. There are plenty of your former coworkers that attest otherwise.
Your time on a.net was a laughing stock for everyone. Everyone has an internet history, Tim.
Yours just was a laughing stock to everyone at Delta too
once again, you resort to personal attacks because you can't accurately debate the facts of the discussion.
As I noted years ago, DL would grow LAX and its Pacific network to remove the one structural advantage that UA has had.
After overtaking AA in both NYC and LAX, B6 at BOS, and matching AS's international growth route for route at SEA, DL is now focused on overtaking UA at LAX and buiding a viable competitive hub to SFO at LAX.
Of course, there are and will be mental midgets that can't stand...
As I noted years ago, DL would grow LAX and its Pacific network to remove the one structural advantage that UA has had.
After overtaking AA in both NYC and LAX, B6 at BOS, and matching AS's international growth route for route at SEA, DL is now focused on overtaking UA at LAX and buiding a viable competitive hub to SFO at LAX.
Of course, there are and will be mental midgets that can't stand to hear that I was right all along but this is yet another chapter in DL's growth and it will play out in the US' largest single O&D market and where no carrier has been able to sustain a long term competitive advantage.
DL is methodical and thinks long term in an industry dominated by players that are driven by emotion.
this will be a very exciting chapter for US aviation.
I trust Ben will cover DL's LAX-ORD and LAX-HKG inaugurations as well as the certain announcements about new DL growth at LAX.
to be fair, I'm not sure there was even an article about AA's pullback of a half dozen southern CA routes as part of the ongoing AA-UA pi90ng match in which UA gains the upper hand right now.
You do make people laugh. Delta has the least growth in absolute or percent growth in LAX this year vs AA and UA but you still say the dumbest things ignorant of just about everything lol
"DL would grow LAX and its Pacific network to remove the one structural advantage that UA has had."
This is a perfect example of the common mistake (as seen here by TD, this article, and even JonNYC) when making a projection about "the [airport] market looks like [condition] today, and after [any airline] does [whatever] it will look like [final result]!"
The mistake TD is making is applying the changes (Delta) while assuming the other...
"DL would grow LAX and its Pacific network to remove the one structural advantage that UA has had."
This is a perfect example of the common mistake (as seen here by TD, this article, and even JonNYC) when making a projection about "the [airport] market looks like [condition] today, and after [any airline] does [whatever] it will look like [final result]!"
The mistake TD is making is applying the changes (Delta) while assuming the other airlines won't respond with changes themselves. IOW - TD might get excited about 10% growth but ignores the fact that other airlines may find ways to also grow by 10% also, negating the expected gains.
United even made this mistake in ORD (ignoring that American will respond - both with flight plans and legal maneuvers - and even forgetting how the FAA/DOT could respond, which they did, changing the anticipated benefits by limiting flights at certain times of the day).
How can this apply in LAX? Spirit's demise left gates to fight over. United leased gates to Alaska in Terminal 6 many years ago, but that wasn't permanent, and could get them back. New gate space is coming, and maybe even new terminals in the years to come (terminal "zero" and terminal "nine" plans are still on the books, but just not funded yet). Space remains to use for international arrivals in the West remote parking. Airlines can upgauge flights (Southwest can concentrate -800s/Max8s in LAX instead of the -700s, for example). There's lots of ways to counter Delta's moves in LAX. If Delta tries to grow too much, too fast, the FAA/DOT could even step in and cap flights, stopping their growth in its tracks, just like they did in ORD.
Bottom line, the competition to Delta (all the competition - not just United or American) will not just sit by and yield market share in LAX. They will make moves of their own. No business operates in a vacuum.
of course other airlines will try to respond.
You can't accept that DL has the financial strength to build LAX just as it has NYC, BOS and SEA.
AA and UA are fighting it out at ORD.
UA is finally being forced to pay market labor rates - or will by the end of the year. It isn't a surprise that they are deciding to settle now while high fuel prices mask the decrease in...
of course other airlines will try to respond.
You can't accept that DL has the financial strength to build LAX just as it has NYC, BOS and SEA.
AA and UA are fighting it out at ORD.
UA is finally being forced to pay market labor rates - or will by the end of the year. It isn't a surprise that they are deciding to settle now while high fuel prices mask the decrease in profits from labor cost increases.
AA and WN simply don't have the financial strength to fight multiple competitive battles including going premium.
AS is digesting a merger that is becoming more and more costly by the day.
UA is spending enormously on growth across its network. and it still made just 2/3 of DL's profits in 2025 despite flying 10% more ASMs.
DL's greatest strength is financial and it will once again be that strength that will allow it to grow LAX while others cannot.
Max does get one thing right and that is that DL uses its profits from its hubs - not just ATL, DTW, MSP and SLC - to grow in other markets.
Not a single other airline has done as much hub building post deregulation as DL. none.
LAX is just DL's next stop for growth.
You need only look at BOS and NYC to see what DL can do on the west coast.
"AA and UA are fighting it out at ORD."
You've argued yourself that the ORD fight is over, as the FAA/DOT has capped flights. United will need a place to fly the planes it thought it would operate in ORD anyhow. Simple upgauge in LAX would be an answer. Again - it's already happening. United is flying 737s from LAX into MRY, which hasn't seen mainline aircraft since they flew 757s in there back in...
"AA and UA are fighting it out at ORD."
You've argued yourself that the ORD fight is over, as the FAA/DOT has capped flights. United will need a place to fly the planes it thought it would operate in ORD anyhow. Simple upgauge in LAX would be an answer. Again - it's already happening. United is flying 737s from LAX into MRY, which hasn't seen mainline aircraft since they flew 757s in there back in the mid 1990s.
"UA is spending enormously on growth across its network. and it still made just 2/3 of DL's profits in 2025 despite flying 10% more ASMs"
"DL's greatest strength is financial and it will once again be that strength that will allow it to grow LAX while others cannot."
Yep on the first part. Delta made $6.2B GAAP pre-tax income vs. United made $4.3B GAAP pre-tax income in 2025. Now do 2026 1Q (Hint: United made $1.1B more, and Delta reported a loss). So United has $5.1B to play with, while Delta has $6.0B. Both are very strong. And Delta does clearly have the financial strength for growth, including in LAX. Never denied that - don't put words in my mouth.
But "Nope!" on the second part. United has plenty of financial strength to respond (and they are one of the "others" you claim cannot do it). So I disagree that Delta is the only airline that can grow in LAX, and I especially disagree with your belief that Delta will both "take over" LAX and be bigger than United in the Asia/Pacific market.
Also funny you see United's growth as a drain on their financials (a negative) but don't see the same for Delta's growth plans (it's a positive!).
"AA and WN simply don't have the financial strength to fight multiple competitive battles including going premium."
Possible. I'd agree they can't fight "multiple" battles right now. But they each can fight one. American made the mistake of ignoring ORD, which is why United made a growth thrust there. But American pivoted, added flights back, and halted United's aggressive growth plans. American can now do the same thing in LAX if they feel legitimately threatened there. Stop worrying about any DFW/MIA/CLT growth and push it all into LAX. Defend their turf. Southwest can do the same, especially when they finally start getting new MAX-7s, expected to be certified within months. Either of them can fight a single battle, and could easily pick LAX for where it happens.
"You need only look at BOS and NYC to see what DL can do on the west coast."
Different dynamics. BOS to some degree, and NYC to a greater degree, can be used for East Coast "North-South" flights as domestic connections. LAX doesn't have that same geographic positioning, so it doesn't work well for West Coast "North-South" itineraries. It works somewhat for connections across the Pacific. It doesn't work as well for other domestic flight connections. IOW, flying in there from somewhere else on the West Coast to domestically "head East" can easily be countered by United in SFO, Southwest in OAK, and American in PHX (not to mention all three in LAX already). LAX works more as a "destination" hub than a transient hub.
Time will tell, as you've said. I just disagree with your analysis, as past airline business behavior has shown. Delta won't get to grow in LAX in a vacuum.
see above regarding 1Q2026
just because the FAA capped flights doesn't mean that AA and UA are singing campfire songs together.
and UA has to face a stronger and more premium focused AA and WN; DL simply has the least overlap with each of the other big 4 than any other airline -that is the result of DL's, wait, wait, hub dominance.
quit arguing and let time tell its story. You are deathly afraid that...
see above regarding 1Q2026
just because the FAA capped flights doesn't mean that AA and UA are singing campfire songs together.
and UA has to face a stronger and more premium focused AA and WN; DL simply has the least overlap with each of the other big 4 than any other airline -that is the result of DL's, wait, wait, hub dominance.
quit arguing and let time tell its story. You are deathly afraid that I just might be right.
I do give you credit for engaging in an honest discussion here without personal attacks.
sTD is an idiot and will stay awake all night to defend delta despite no data and no desire to pretend it exists in anything he says
Is anyone surprised by this buffoon?
the only dumb one here is you that can't figure out that you can have a 30+ hour day if you cross the Atlantic and you can put some serious change in Ben's back pocket if you fly an airline that has free high speed WiFi. Clearly, my connection worked just fine for over 12 hours on 2 flights.
and the only buffoons are those that can't admit that DL would use its wealth...
the only dumb one here is you that can't figure out that you can have a 30+ hour day if you cross the Atlantic and you can put some serious change in Ben's back pocket if you fly an airline that has free high speed WiFi. Clearly, my connection worked just fine for over 12 hours on 2 flights.
and the only buffoons are those that can't admit that DL would use its wealth and income to grow its position in the largest global markets including LAX using the advantage that is even larger now.
The refinery will very likely boost DL's profits relative to its peers by $1 billion this year, not another carrier in the world has a credit card deal as lucrative as DL-Amex, and the MRO is going to get really busy dropping high margin revenue into DL's bank accounts as no other US airline can match.
buffoonery is not being able or willing to admit I said years ago that this is how it would play out.
You, mini brain, are the definition of buffoon and no one should be the least bit surprised
We can get to 200.
I've had a 30+ hour day today thanks to crossing the Atlantic.
DL is still set to whip some serious competitive backside at LAX.
I said it would happen and I couldn't be more thrilled to see the plan unfold.
"We can get to 200"
I assume you mean WB aircraft? Yes, Delta can. United will welcome you into the club, since United is already operating 231 WB aircraft. But United will have formed a different club by then.
Where will this end up? Even if Delta keeps all of the unreliable, 35+ year old 767-300s it uses, Delta will finish with 262 WBs. To make the comparison realistic, since United doesn't fly planes once...
"We can get to 200"
I assume you mean WB aircraft? Yes, Delta can. United will welcome you into the club, since United is already operating 231 WB aircraft. But United will have formed a different club by then.
Where will this end up? Even if Delta keeps all of the unreliable, 35+ year old 767-300s it uses, Delta will finish with 262 WBs. To make the comparison realistic, since United doesn't fly planes once they get unreliable, assume United keeps planes that are only younger than 35 years old (and retires some of the older 767s at or just past the 35 year mark) - United would still end up with 406 WBs.
406 > 262.
406 WBs is 55% more WBs than 262.
I'd save this, and gloat about it in 5 years, when Delta still has a smaller international footprint than United - but you'll ignore the data again, or you'll deny you ever said Delta would pass United in LAX, in the Asia/Pacific market, or anywhere.
How is Denver a "fortress hub?"
Until recently, it was the only airport in America to house the largest operation of 3 separate airlines (now, ATL is slightly larger, for Frontier).
That's the OPPOSITE definition of a fortress.
United has >50% market share of Denver. Southwest is significant but just under 30%. Frontier is only ~9% market share.
If a smaller airline's largest operation is at an airport, that doesn't mean it's competitive... Frontier having a large presence (for Frontier) does not diminish United's dominance of Denver.
IMO Southwest is the only relevant player in the Denver market aside from United and then are only competing for domestic (and regional international) traffic....
United has >50% market share of Denver. Southwest is significant but just under 30%. Frontier is only ~9% market share.
If a smaller airline's largest operation is at an airport, that doesn't mean it's competitive... Frontier having a large presence (for Frontier) does not diminish United's dominance of Denver.
IMO Southwest is the only relevant player in the Denver market aside from United and then are only competing for domestic (and regional international) traffic. This doesn't change the fact that United still dominates in Denver...
LTD says, "it will be a great couple years to watch"
It certainly will be.
Fleet plans
UA: 1,107 aircraft, (231 WB), Orders: 180WB/463 NB
AA: 1,013 aircraft, (133 WB), Orders: 22 WB/278 NB
DA: 988 aircraft, (177 WB), Orders: 85 WB/237 NB
United Next completion, Starlink (90+ NPS), 36 new IAH gates, 14 new int'l IAD gates, 50 A321XLRs with lie-flat suites, 50 A321NEO Coastliners with lie-flat suites on JFK-LAX/SFO...
LTD says, "it will be a great couple years to watch"
It certainly will be.
Fleet plans
UA: 1,107 aircraft, (231 WB), Orders: 180WB/463 NB
AA: 1,013 aircraft, (133 WB), Orders: 22 WB/278 NB
DA: 988 aircraft, (177 WB), Orders: 85 WB/237 NB
United Next completion, Starlink (90+ NPS), 36 new IAH gates, 14 new int'l IAD gates, 50 A321XLRs with lie-flat suites, 50 A321NEO Coastliners with lie-flat suites on JFK-LAX/SFO which will extend UA's NYC lead, best app/IT infrastructure on the cloud and record credit card & Mileage Plus subscriptions among other initiatives.
Enjoy Viasat and those 44 recliners.
United has dozens of aircraft grounded. Their fleet is nowhere as large as numbers indicate
None of which changes that Delta will kick United’s butt at LAX while UA tries to get back into JFK
Get out from under the desk
Scotty has been checkmated
Wrong again. United has 1,129 aircraft if you count those that are in temporary storage.
Tim doesn't use numbers. He just likes statements.
Baby pilot Paul
The numbers I am using are Delta‘s $1.6 billion in higher profits in united in 2025
Delta has a track record of building hubs, which no other airline has matched.
United is in Delta‘s crosshairs at Los Angeles and there isn’t a thing that United can do about it
Just like United’s horrible baggage handling, you’ll accept that Delta will take out united in California
Hey Tim, my friend:
Do we also get to use Delta's 1Q 2026 GAAP pre-tax LOSS of $214 million compared to United's 1Q 2026 GAAP pre-tax PROFIT of $900 million for your assumptions?
I know math isn't your strong suit, but that's United with $1.14 Billion higher profits than Delta so far this year.
And there absolutely is something simple United "can do about it" in LAX - simply upgauge flights. EMB175 becomes a 737,...
Hey Tim, my friend:
Do we also get to use Delta's 1Q 2026 GAAP pre-tax LOSS of $214 million compared to United's 1Q 2026 GAAP pre-tax PROFIT of $900 million for your assumptions?
I know math isn't your strong suit, but that's United with $1.14 Billion higher profits than Delta so far this year.
And there absolutely is something simple United "can do about it" in LAX - simply upgauge flights. EMB175 becomes a 737, 737-800 becomes a 737-Max 9. 767-300 becomes one of the many 787s United is getting this year. Same gate space, more ASMs. United has already done it between LAX and MRY and my money says it's just the start.
What now? Back to the 0.35% difference between Delta and United in mishandled baggage rate this year?
Tim shot his mouth off again and was wrong!
"None of which changes that Delta will kick United’s butt at LAX while UA tries to get back into JFK"
They literally have four more gates than UA does. How exactly do you see them kicking UAs butt with that? You're honestly just lost on the sauce on this one buddy.
I will say... that's a rather selective fleet number, Rebel ;)
We aren't comparing Southwest to Frontier or Jetblue.
In case you missed it, the mainline carriers use regional aircraft as part of their network strategy and UA is behind AA on total aircraft in the fleet.
Point taken, but with wholly owned vs code-share RJ partners, it is more difficult to make such comparisons. Feel free to provide those comparisons if you wish. My numbers were mainline only.
I'm tired but they're In the 10-k
doesn't matter what it's in the 10K or not.
We're talking about LAX, not any airline's total system or fleet.
How you could have spent hours banging the keyboard and not have figured that out is truly amazing.
8 hubs, old fleet, relatively few close in orders. Let’s see if he can add 2 + 2.
you can't even get the basic facts right.
UA's fleet age right now is older than DL's. UA has more planes grounded for parts than any other US airline. DL generates more total revenue and profits.
DL has and will continue to have more than enough orders; it has never needed to order aircraft a decade in advance or cash in discounts because of its suppliers' delays as UA has done because of MAX and...
you can't even get the basic facts right.
UA's fleet age right now is older than DL's. UA has more planes grounded for parts than any other US airline. DL generates more total revenue and profits.
DL has and will continue to have more than enough orders; it has never needed to order aircraft a decade in advance or cash in discounts because of its suppliers' delays as UA has done because of MAX and 787 delays.
UA has failed in its strategy to push AA out of ORD, the FAA has had to rein in UA at UA's 3 largest hubs.
and UA generates less revenue and far less profits using the same business plan that DL uses.
the next couple years for you will be really hard, rebel.
get back under the desk and satisfy you and Scotty because actually discussing the industry will be bloody difficult for you
and yet you cling to the notion that UA can or will ever
United made more revenue per passenger ($366) than Delta did ($340) in 2025.
But Delta has lower cost, non-union employees so Delta's better profit margin comes off the backs of workers.
"UA's fleet age right now is older than DL's. UA has more planes grounded for parts than any other US airline. DL generates more total revenue and profits."
United's average fleet age: 15.2 years
Delta's average fleet age: 15.0 years
With United having 2x the order book that Delta has, where do you think those numbers are trending? Soon, when United's average fleet age is younger than Delta's, can we remind you about...
"UA's fleet age right now is older than DL's. UA has more planes grounded for parts than any other US airline. DL generates more total revenue and profits."
United's average fleet age: 15.2 years
Delta's average fleet age: 15.0 years
With United having 2x the order book that Delta has, where do you think those numbers are trending? Soon, when United's average fleet age is younger than Delta's, can we remind you about how much that matters?
FYI: United's 10 oldest planes - 35.2, 35.1, 35.1, 35.1, 34.2, 33.9, 33.9, 33.8, 33.7, and 33.6 Years Old (all 767-300s)
Delta's 10 oldest planes - 36.9, 36.1, 36, 35.9, 35.5, 35.5, 35.4, 35.4, 35.3, and 35.2 Years Old (mix of 757s and 767s)
Delta seems to keep older planes longer (source: planespotters)
Profits, we've already discussed (but you didn't respond to) - so we'll do it again. Your claim is not true as of this year.
2025 full year, GAAP, pre-tax profit:
Delta, $6.2B
United, $4.3B
1Q 2026, GAAP, pre-tax profit:
Delta, -$214M
United, +900M
And which way do THOSE numbers seem to be trending, hmmm?
Now do Cancellations and On-Time arrivals!
"needed to order aircraft a decade in advance or cash in discounts because of its suppliers' delays"
How'd that supplier delay on the fancy seats for the 321's turn out again?
The UA butthurt is only going to get a whole lot worse over the next 3 years as DL not only will become the most international flights to go with its airport leadership of domestic travel but DL will siphon off UA's biggest feeder market for SFO.
it will be a great couple years to watch as AA stays put in ORD and DL cleans UA's clock in California.
lmao
you are good for a laugh, Tim
seriously.
So United, currently operating 231 WB aircraft, with pending orders for 180 more, will have fewer international flights than Delta - who operates 177 WB aircraft, and only has orders for 85 more?
Again, math isn't your best subject. Here's some simple addition/subtraction to try:
Even if United retires EVERY SINGLE current 777-200, 767-300, and 767-400 for each new 787 delivered (and they're not), United would still net 53 additional widebodies out of those 180...
So United, currently operating 231 WB aircraft, with pending orders for 180 more, will have fewer international flights than Delta - who operates 177 WB aircraft, and only has orders for 85 more?
Again, math isn't your best subject. Here's some simple addition/subtraction to try:
Even if United retires EVERY SINGLE current 777-200, 767-300, and 767-400 for each new 787 delivered (and they're not), United would still net 53 additional widebodies out of those 180 deliveries, giving them 284 WB aircraft.
And, even if Delta DIDN"T RETIRE a SINGLE ONE of their widebodies (unlikely - 20 A330s are over 20 years old, and 8 767s are over 30 years old), they would only finish with 262 WB aircraft.
(Hint: 284 is more than 262)
So United does a 1-for-1 retirement on new deliveries, and Delta doesn't retire a single one, and Delta still has 22 fewer widebodies? That's more WB airplanes at United than the Delta A350-1000 order you're so excited about!
How again will Delta have fewer planes, but have the most international flights again?
Boy, math is hard!
Please tell me that you don’t have a US pilot license
Nowhere did I say anything about the size of each anirlio entire network.
This conversation is about Los Angeles and it has nothing to do with total fleet size.
answer his question, numb nuts. How will Delta have more international flights with a significantly lower wide body aircraft count today and in orders?
You have such a TELL, when you know you made an idiot of yourself you try to pretend you didn't say something and not answer the question.
btw. For a guy that's been awake since 1am Atlanta time sitting in the middle seat of a Delta 763 in economy, why...
answer his question, numb nuts. How will Delta have more international flights with a significantly lower wide body aircraft count today and in orders?
You have such a TELL, when you know you made an idiot of yourself you try to pretend you didn't say something and not answer the question.
btw. For a guy that's been awake since 1am Atlanta time sitting in the middle seat of a Delta 763 in economy, why are you still awake?
Answer: ANYONE can make you spend hours making a fool of yourself here lol
see above, micro brain.
We're not talking about the entire system.
We're talking about LAX.
and 20 or so of UA's supposed widebody count is that horrid 777-200s that are grounded because parts aren't made for the engines any more.
UA's widebody fleet is the oldest of any global airline in the world.
You keep clinging to fleet size. Any reasonable person - including alot of folks in downtown Chicago - know that UA will...
see above, micro brain.
We're not talking about the entire system.
We're talking about LAX.
and 20 or so of UA's supposed widebody count is that horrid 777-200s that are grounded because parts aren't made for the engines any more.
UA's widebody fleet is the oldest of any global airline in the world.
You keep clinging to fleet size. Any reasonable person - including alot of folks in downtown Chicago - know that UA will be retiring a whole lot of planes in the next few years
Their order book is newer and larger than delta in total , numb nuts
How are you so stupid
LTS says, “ 20 or so of UA's supposed widebody count is that horrid 777-200s”
Try 11. You just make stuff up, don’t you? Another swing and a miss for tiny Tim.
Delta cancels 44% more flights than United. Delta won't "win" LAX with that kind of poor operational performance.
DL cancelled 1% more flights than UA. Your math as usual doesn't math
But don't let up - United lost 40% more bags than Delta even though Delta carried 20% more bags
United’s baggage handling remains the industry’s worst
anything to avoid admitting that reality is clearly your theme.
Pilot Paul says, "Delta cancels 44% more flights than United."
LTD says, "DL cancelled 1% more flights than UA. Your math as usual doesn't math"
Absolutely wrong as usual LTD. It's simple math. Explains why LTD is wrong all the time.
Q1 2026 Cancellations/cancellation %
Delta: 14,328/3.7
United: 9,204/2.57
14,328 - 9,204=5,124, 5,124/9,204 = 56% more raw cancellations
3.7%-2.57% = 1.13, 1.13/2.57 = 44% higher cancellation rate by Delta
https://www.transportation.gov/sites/dot.gov/files/2026-05/May%202026%20ATCR.pdf
Pilot Paul says, "Delta cancels 44% more flights than United."
LTD says, "DL cancelled 1% more flights than UA. Your math as usual doesn't math"
Absolutely wrong as usual LTD. It's simple math. Explains why LTD is wrong all the time.
Q1 2026 Cancellations/cancellation %
Delta: 14,328/3.7
United: 9,204/2.57
14,328 - 9,204=5,124, 5,124/9,204 = 56% more raw cancellations
3.7%-2.57% = 1.13, 1.13/2.57 = 44% higher cancellation rate by Delta
https://www.transportation.gov/sites/dot.gov/files/2026-05/May%202026%20ATCR.pdf
You do realize that Delta is a larger airline in terms of operating more flights, don’t know?
That's why I included cancellation rates also. You know, percentages. Do you understand how percentages work in making apples to apples comparisons?
Timmy doesn't know the difference between percentage and basis points...
God... no wonder your website makes sure to say "don't pretend to take us seriously" in their disclaimers
their worst writer doesn't even know basic financial math.
they're both expressed in percentages, micro brain.
You just don't understand or won't accept that the difference between DL and UA's on-time and cancellation rates and their baggage handlign is as big as the Pacific ocean.
UA is dead last out of 9 US airlines with a ratio of baggage mishandling that is 70% worse.
DL's on-time and cancellation rates are 1%+ different than UA's.
UA runs a far worse operation than DL -...
they're both expressed in percentages, micro brain.
You just don't understand or won't accept that the difference between DL and UA's on-time and cancellation rates and their baggage handlign is as big as the Pacific ocean.
UA is dead last out of 9 US airlines with a ratio of baggage mishandling that is 70% worse.
DL's on-time and cancellation rates are 1%+ different than UA's.
UA runs a far worse operation than DL - but thanks for allowing me to continue to publicize that fact while you try to blow your usual smoke out of your backside
LTS says, “ DL's on-time and cancellation rates are 1%+ different than UA's.”
Absolutely wrong again. LTD doesn’t understand percentages. Amazing! Delta’s cancellation rate is 44% higher than United in Q1 2026. DL has cancelled over 5,000 MORE flights than UA.
Which flight number does not offer WiFi on this route, tim?
https://www.flightaware.com/live/findflight?origin=PHNL&destination=RJTT
Which flight on this one offers gogo internet on mainline?
https://www.flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL1391
Ok. I cheated. It’s just domestic delta mainline without free WiFi or high speed WiFi ;)
Poor little mini brain can’t admit that American doesn’t offer a single flight across the Atlantic that offers free high-speed Wi-Fi for every passenger.
Meanwhile, I’ve had a lovely eight hours, pulling his chain and a whole lot of other people’s.
And out west, Delta will do to United what it has done to American at both New York and Los Angeles.
The next three years should be absolutely delightful here
try reading the responses to your own question, idiot. Anyone can see the responses.
I gave you an entire route. ;)
PHL-LHR -- all free wifi for all pax
ORD-LHR -- all free wifi for all pax
If you're going to claim victory, it's always worthwhile to read responses before you make an *ss of yourself lol
Delta is operating 737-900ERs between LAX/SFO and JFK.
You can find what days/flight numbers in flightaware.
lovely. really.
AA has to buy new aircraft to figure out how to install free WiFi.
DL operates another 150 flights/day over the Atlantic that have it.
get the chip off your shoulder. DL offers far superior coverage free WiFI coverage across the globe.
AA is a low class airline that not even Wall Street wants to have anything to do with as evidenced by their dump from the index.
still waiting for your wifi answers, Tim.
Do you not want to play your own game? ;)
As usual, you start a game you lose at...
Imagine an airline that flies their WORST product into HND coupled with no wifi... Delta
indeed, imagine that AA and UA have Panasonic WiFi that just doesn't work for good chunks of time.
THAT is just dreadful customer service.
LTD says, "THAT is just dreadful customer service."
Here is Delta's wifi coverage map. Talk about 'dreadful'. Check out the hole over the Pacific.
https://www.delta.com/us/en/onboard/inflight-entertainment/onboard-wifi
And nothing on those 717s and those 33 73Rs.
This is a fun game, tim
Which flight does NOT offer WiFi on this route?
I’ll bet you can guess…
https://www.flightaware.com/live/findflight?origin=KLAX&destination=RJTT
Delta is operating 737-900ERs between LAX/SFO and JFK.
You can also find what days/flight numbers those are in flightaware.
not to be confused wiht the 777-200ERs that AA pilots taxi in front of other aircraft or the 321Ts that AA strikes the runway with
No class in your glass house little man.
it's cute that sTD loves to talk about free wifi but can't answer simple questions about ANY wifi on a VERY high value flight like LAX-HND.
His response? a 4 month old near miss between planes.
https://www.cnbc.com/2024/09/10/delta-airplane-struck-tail-of-regional-jet-faa-investigating-.html
There's a tale in the bible about looking at a spec in someone's eye while ignoring the plank in your own...
Try again, tiger.
Why does Delta focus so heavily on LAX, given its limited number of gates compared to SLC—which will have over 50 gates dedicated to them? Mind you, don't roast me... I'm just a beginner with a question.
The size of the local market.
LAX is the largest single market at any US airport
Then why is Delta operating 737-900ERs between LAX and JFK?
Look in flightaware - you can find them there.
you're just confused - to no surprise
those are **339s** - the aircraft type that AA could well end up buying after DL showed them what a great aircraft they can have for far less money.
Nope. They are Delta 737-900ERs between LAX and JFK. You looked at the wrong part of flightaware.
Look again. They are there.
What is that American flight number, Max, that has free high-speed Wi-Fi for every passenger across the Atlantic?
Before you ask anyone about flight numbers, how about this flight number?
@ Tim Dunn -- We're waiting to learn which EWR-LAX frequencies UA operates with 737-900ERs, please!! These are the important details!
The answer to my claim can be found on flight aware. The answer to your question is zero
That answer is also zero you dolt.
Just give it up - you went to flightaware, looked up EWR-LAX, saw a B739er and just assumed it was UA, when it was AS.
You continuing to just tell people to go to flightaware is just embarrassing (more so than usual with you)
Always amusing when you say such dogmatic things about your free WiFi and have no idea about the competition
As an example, every AA flight shown here would have free WiFi. It’s not exclusive to this route but every AA flight here has free WiFi.
https://www.flightaware.com/live/findflight?origin=KORD&destination=EGLL
Look at you learnings things, sTD
Do you have that United 739 lax-ewr flight number for us yet? ;)
And I’ve had a delightful eight hours on Delta’s free high-speed Wi-Fi across the Atlantic, something no other legacy airline offers on every flight
And I can’t wait to see how much American will retreat as Delta kicks backside just a little bit more out west
And United’s San Francisco hub will have its biggest flow market switch sides to Delta
Fun times!
"And I’ve had a delightful eight hours on Delta’s free high-speed Wi-Fi across the Atlantic"
Lucky it wasn't the Pacific. Check out the hole in Delta's wifi coverage.
https://www.delta.com/us/en/onboard/inflight-entertainment/onboard-wifi
Yikes!
Since you seem to enjoy this game, here's another route where every AA route with free high speed wifi on all the AA flights shown:
https://www.flightaware.com/live/findflight?origin=KPHL&destination=EGLL
Still waiting for that specific flight number on United EWR-LAX with the 739... tik tok
You really can just admit you made it up and move on. The fact that you're trying to hide behind an entire website but unable to provide a SINGLE LINK is quite amusing though
Since you seem to enjoy this game, here's another route where every AA route with free high speed wifi on all the AA flights shown:
https://www.flightaware.com/live/findflight?origin=KPHL&destination=EGLL
Still waiting for that specific flight number on United EWR-LAX with the 739... tik tok
You really can just admit you made it up and move on. The fact that you're trying to hide behind an entire website but unable to provide a SINGLE LINK is quite amusing though
Why is Delta now operating LAX-JFK in 737-900ERs?
You can find those flights in flightaware.
"Voice dictation has its limits
By the way, I’m enjoying posting compliments of Delta’s free Wi-Fi across the Atlantic"
-- Tim Dunn
And I thought I'd read some of the worst flight experiences ever from one of Gary Leff's articles:
"this passenger had their bare feet on the bulkhead picking dead skin off with their headphones not on blaring polka music while simultaneously finding a mouse in their salad and noticing their NIH...
"Voice dictation has its limits
By the way, I’m enjoying posting compliments of Delta’s free Wi-Fi across the Atlantic"
-- Tim Dunn
And I thought I'd read some of the worst flight experiences ever from one of Gary Leff's articles:
"this passenger had their bare feet on the bulkhead picking dead skin off with their headphones not on blaring polka music while simultaneously finding a mouse in their salad and noticing their NIH seatmate transporting the ebola virus in an old can of beans and then your other seatmate tries to open the plane door while choking a flight attendant. " -- almost all semi-real stories from VFTW the last few days (not the mouse) ;)
But then...
In case anyone missed this little gem... imagine you're on a Delta 763 enjoying the premium experience of Delta's finest product across the Atlantic. You get on board absolutely disappointed with what the onboard product is and the "premium" you paid for it but then...
Your seatmate, a guy with a nametag that says "Hi, my name is Tim Dunn (not really, but that's what my nametag says)! GO DELTA!" spends the entire flight loudly using voice dictation extolling the awesomeness of Delta Air Lines and talking gibberish about LAX dominance into his phone... The smirks to himself and constant laughing about his awesomeness while high fiving the Delta Flight Attendant -- GO TEAM, RIGHT?! -- as they walk by the last row in coach by the toilets
Yikes... I'm actually not sure which is worse. I might take the feet, dead skin, polka music, mouse, ebola, and choking experience.
At least some people are into feet, polka, and choking for fun...
You have fallen off the wagon in your deep hatred that someone understands the industry better than you.
Just walk away, Max
Delta took out American at New York and Los Angeles and is now ready to take United out at LA too
You’re so weird lol
Everything is black and white to you in your simple little world :)
If Delta is taking LAX from United, why is Delta operating 737-900ERs between LAX/SFO and JFK?
You can find what days/flight numbers in flightaware.
Just shows that no airline has been able to build any West Coast fortress hub comparable to what UA had in SFO. Shame for AA that they walked away from their SJC hub...
AA simply just couldn't get it to work with UA up the road. They did have London, Paris, Tokyo and were going to start Taipei. The "dot.com" implosion and 9/11 kind of put a kibosh to that. I guess they did ok in the late 80's out of SJC.
DL has great leverage at JFK, LGA, and BOS because they can route travellers through convenient DTW or ATL if they don't have a nonstop. At LAX their only backup is fairly weak and geographically suboptimal SLC, and then a whole lot of nothing until MSP or ATL. They are going to struggle to offer LAX travellers good options to lots of places west of the MSP-ATL line (including Latin America). The routing advantage DL...
DL has great leverage at JFK, LGA, and BOS because they can route travellers through convenient DTW or ATL if they don't have a nonstop. At LAX their only backup is fairly weak and geographically suboptimal SLC, and then a whole lot of nothing until MSP or ATL. They are going to struggle to offer LAX travellers good options to lots of places west of the MSP-ATL line (including Latin America). The routing advantage DL has on the East Coast (DTW+ATL) is the advantage UA has on the West Coast (SFO+DEN+IAH). Even AA can offer PHX and the almighty DFW, plus the Alaska alliance. UA will also get JFK flights from LAX next year. I expect UA to hold serve against anything DL throws at them at LAX.
Delta gets far higher average fares from Salt Lake City than United does from Denver. Delta also gets far higher fares from Minneapolis than United does from Chicago. It is precisely Delta‘s higher fares from its hubs that allow it to develop new hubs like Delta has done in Boston, Seattle, New York and Los Angeles. The airline industry was deregulated at the same time for Delta American and United but Delta has clearly figured...
Delta gets far higher average fares from Salt Lake City than United does from Denver. Delta also gets far higher fares from Minneapolis than United does from Chicago. It is precisely Delta‘s higher fares from its hubs that allow it to develop new hubs like Delta has done in Boston, Seattle, New York and Los Angeles. The airline industry was deregulated at the same time for Delta American and United but Delta has clearly figured out how to get more revenue proceed than any other US airline.
And despite your inability to see it, Delta has a western US triangle with Salt Lake City, Los Angeles, and Seattle that covers a larger portion of the country than united does with its West Coast triangle
> And despite your inability to see it, Delta has a western US triangle with Salt Lake City, Los Angeles, and Seattle that covers a larger portion of the country than united does with its West Coast triangle
Are you really asserting that DL at LAX + SLC + SEA offers better coverage of the country than UA LAX + SFO + DEN + IAH??
We are not talking about the whole country. We are talking about coverage of the west. Delta by far carries more passengers in the United States then United does.
There is far more of the United States north of San Francisco than there is between Denver and Salt Lake City
Delta‘s triangle of the West is superior to United’s
No, what I'm saying is that UA has more options to route passengers from LAX to destinations west of MSP to ATL.
Plus, United isn't using 737-900ERs to fly between LAX and EWR.
Unlike Delta, which is using 737-900ERs between LAX and JFK.
Just look in flightaware - you can find those flights there.
Tim, why are you so focused on the size of DL in LAX when, in all the other stories about DL shrinking in NYC and being overtaken by UA in NYC, TATL, TPAC, not to you say size doesn’t matter?
That’s all in addition to DL seemingly giving up on SEA and their distant second place to a strengthening AS, an even more distant second place in AUS with all of the RJs, and a...
Tim, why are you so focused on the size of DL in LAX when, in all the other stories about DL shrinking in NYC and being overtaken by UA in NYC, TATL, TPAC, not to you say size doesn’t matter?
That’s all in addition to DL seemingly giving up on SEA and their distant second place to a strengthening AS, an even more distant second place in AUS with all of the RJs, and a MIA focus city that never worked out.
DL does well with their fortress hubs without even a cross-town competing airport, and with credit card revenue (though Kirby recently said UA credit card earnings will double with the new Chase contract).
But when you go on and on about DL’s size in one city, it reveals the insecurity you feel about their size elsewhere.
The butthurt is clearly painful
It is only in your dreams that Delta is giving up in Seattle
Delta serves all three New York airports and very well may be adding the Los Angeles to Newark flights that I have predicted
Delta already has more flights from New York City than any other airline
This is United’s checkmate, and it clearly hurts for you to admit it
DL will not do well on LAX-EWR. Thats a recipe for disaster.
like United on JFK LAX
Yes, like United on JFK-LAX.
I, unlike you, am OK admitting the faults of my preferred airline.
Delta isn’t trying to get back into an airport it stupidly left.
But thank you for admitting that UA will never succeed as an also ran to Delta at JFK
UA’s return to JFK will lead to DL starting EWR to LAX
As with LAX, it will come down to financial staying ability and Delta will win that contest every day and twice on Sunday
"Delta isn’t trying to get back into an airport it stupidly left."'
No, delta's issue is trying to get back into an entire state that it stupidly left, Texas. lol
Your reply above might be the most idiotic thing I've seen you write here today.
But your "Delta triangle" vs "united triangle" was up there on stupid understandings of airline networks too.
Most people this ignorant don't post to show it-- you sure do, sTD lol
"Delta isn’t trying to get back into an airport it stupidly left."
This is true - DL can of course draw on their massive existing EWR presence where they fly to all their fortress hubs that, check notes, your mythical EWR-LAX route will overfly.
And before you tell me about how DL can then draw on the loyal passenger base in the EWR catchment area that fly to MSP/DTW/ATL/SLC on DL - well, by that...
"Delta isn’t trying to get back into an airport it stupidly left."
This is true - DL can of course draw on their massive existing EWR presence where they fly to all their fortress hubs that, check notes, your mythical EWR-LAX route will overfly.
And before you tell me about how DL can then draw on the loyal passenger base in the EWR catchment area that fly to MSP/DTW/ATL/SLC on DL - well, by that logic UA has a similar built in customer base in the NYC catchment area with their LGA operation, which carries more passengers than DL does at EWR.
I fully admit UA should not have left JFK the first time, and further admit a standalone JFK operation that is just JFK-SFO/LAX will probably not do well. (though at least with JFK-SFO, they are only facing an established competitor hub in one of the two markets). But the idea that DL can make a significant dent into EWR-LAX is laugahble.
Every argument you make about Delta at Newark applies to United at JFK.
It all comes down to who is stupid enough to think the other won’t match them
It won’t be Delta that will start this next battle but Delta will finish it
But we are talking about Los Angeles right now and it will be Delta that will finish off united at Los Angeles
Again, I am fully admitting UA will almost certainly not get JFK-LAX to work. You are the only one blindly thinking somehow DL can get EWR-LAX to work, whether by itself or in some made up retaliation sceanrio.
Also still unsure how DL is going to *finish off* UA when they have a similar number of gates, and it isnt like DL is going to suddenly get a bunch more.
Wow Tim predicts DL operating EWR-LAX.
But the real question is will Delta operates with 737-900ERs, please!! These are the important details!
Delta is operating 737-900ERs between LAX/SFO and JFK.
You can find what days/flight numbers in flightaware.
Tim Dunn: And, no, Delta hasn’t admitted anything about Seattle. That is just your wishful dreams.
Hopefully asking the third time is the charm. Why did Delta pull out of the Seattle to HK route? Was CX too premium for DL? Don’t tell me about profits and other routes or JVs or other things. Just see if you can try to focus on answering this direct question. Nothing against Delta. It is just your obsession...
Tim Dunn: And, no, Delta hasn’t admitted anything about Seattle. That is just your wishful dreams.
Hopefully asking the third time is the charm. Why did Delta pull out of the Seattle to HK route? Was CX too premium for DL? Don’t tell me about profits and other routes or JVs or other things. Just see if you can try to focus on answering this direct question. Nothing against Delta. It is just your obsession with Delta and how they can do nothing wrong and everything is a success with it. If you can manage to answer this question, then I know you need to be asked one question at a time to make things easy for you.
You're chirping about a route that ended 7 years ago as if that's some kind of big revelation in 2026.
What're you going to bring up next the old NRT hub? Get with the times. Delta has only expanded and invested in SEA in the recent years.
@yolo It is a big deal because TD has yet to answer this question even though he keeps telling us how DL is/going to be so strong with its west coast operations. So yeah, it is relevant. And now the two of you think DL will succeed and be the most dominant carrier at LAX but once again I asked Tim this and he never answered it: would most people choose DL over CX on...
@yolo It is a big deal because TD has yet to answer this question even though he keeps telling us how DL is/going to be so strong with its west coast operations. So yeah, it is relevant. And now the two of you think DL will succeed and be the most dominant carrier at LAX but once again I asked Tim this and he never answered it: would most people choose DL over CX on this route so is DL going to steal market share from just other U.S. carriers? And yeah it ended 7 years ago because DL could not make that route work so how can they make LAX to HKG work? Yolo, you get up to speed and realize not everything DL touches turns to gold and yeah history has proven that.
YOLO is right
Some people desperately want to see Delta and me fail
Alaska’s long haul aspirations from SEA are far more at risk than DL’s entire SEA hub.
I don't think anyone cares whether you succeed or fail, Tim ;)
You're just a laughing stock and are constantly proved wrong.
Haha, thrice again. Tim sure fails to answer a direct question and the other questions posted by Ben and the others when he knows he is wrong about Delta. His refusal to answer just means DL cannot go head to head with CX and other Asian carriers which is why DL failed the intra-Asia flights as well left over from Northwest airlines. Hmmm…..Delta One (business class) or CX first class from Los Angeles to Hong...
Haha, thrice again. Tim sure fails to answer a direct question and the other questions posted by Ben and the others when he knows he is wrong about Delta. His refusal to answer just means DL cannot go head to head with CX and other Asian carriers which is why DL failed the intra-Asia flights as well left over from Northwest airlines. Hmmm…..Delta One (business class) or CX first class from Los Angeles to Hong Kong roundtrip….personal money for DL TD and YOLO and the rest CX first class.
You are fixated in trying to prove me wrong.
Delta has the financial strength and the track record to build in Los Angeles what no other airline has done.
Check back in five years and let’s see who is right.
Let’s not forget that United didn’t even succeed at pushing American out of Chicago and was too stupid to stay at JFK
"Delta has the financial strength and the track record to build in Los Angeles what no other airline has done."
And yet yesterday you were telling us the same thing about Delta, LAX, and Latin America... Until somebody reminded you Delta is actually running full speed away from LAX/SEA> Latin America lol
Here are the fun facts.
YoY LAX> Latin America Delta is flying:
21% fewer flights
22% fewer seats
...
"Delta has the financial strength and the track record to build in Los Angeles what no other airline has done."
And yet yesterday you were telling us the same thing about Delta, LAX, and Latin America... Until somebody reminded you Delta is actually running full speed away from LAX/SEA> Latin America lol
Here are the fun facts.
YoY LAX> Latin America Delta is flying:
21% fewer flights
22% fewer seats
and 29% lower capacity.
To translate what that means for you, Tim. Delta cancelled 21% of their flights to Latin America from LAX, they also slightly lowered the gauge on the flights they kept and the ASM portion means they knew they couldn't compete on longer flights so they also shortened the distance they were willing to fly to Latin America from LAX.
Your credibility is zero. Because you truly post out of absolute ignorance hoping for the best and everyone realizes it. When you're called out on it like Stanley did, you literally can't back up anything you say with any data.
And Stanley is right. No person in their right mind is booking Delta over CX if the company is paying the bill. Sure, Delta may fly some low yield people to HKG just like they do on HNL-HND where they also have the weakest point of sale on each end.
I have to admit one thing to you, Tim. I don't think I've ever seen anyone in life get knocked out by punches over and over and over again yet come right back knowing they're going to lose and be proven wrong over and over.
You are a loveable loser, for sure.
@Tim you need to admit it. @Max Power got you beat. He uses logical thinking and facts and you don’t.
Tim you are proved wrong over and over. Just not answering about Seattle again reminded you how wrong you were.
Do you hope with all this posting you can get your job back at Delta?
Now DL is going back to LAX-YVR against AC and UA.
Are these on 175s again?
DL will get knocked out again. This is an old WA route
few would argue that a 175 is an uncompetitive aircraft but it is a whole lot better than the CRJ550s and 450s that UA is deploying all over their network. Surely, you don't think that UA has a competitive advantage against DL mainline?
and, DL is using the A319 LAX to YVR
Heathrow is the largest hub in Europe. If Delta want extra traffic for Auckland given the number of Brits who visit, plus to compete with Cathay, Qatar etc who fly east, London is a no brainer. Delta has to look at where they can generate extra traffic from outside the US if they want to be profitable. Also more competition from Qantas.
it'll be interesting to see if the revenue sharing "JV" that AA and AS are discussing comes to fruition.
If that happens, Delta will instantly become a distant third on the west coast.
LAX will become OneWorld territory -- and even if that share isn't overwhelming -- which it won't be -- the OW share at non-LAX SoCal share will be the largest of the US3 given the AS coverage up and down...
it'll be interesting to see if the revenue sharing "JV" that AA and AS are discussing comes to fruition.
If that happens, Delta will instantly become a distant third on the west coast.
LAX will become OneWorld territory -- and even if that share isn't overwhelming -- which it won't be -- the OW share at non-LAX SoCal share will be the largest of the US3 given the AS coverage up and down the west coast coupled with the connections to AA's better mid-con hubs -- there's nothing wrong with ATL and MSP but UA hubs at DEN/IAH and DFW for AA are massively better for anyone connecting out of Southern California. UA will become the competitor while Delta retreats from SEA and LAX is just another memory like AA's "Win LAX".
Delta just simply is in a bad position and I appreciate the chutzpah and hubris as much as anyone else -- but it's just that. Delta just doesn't have the natural advantages that AA and UA do -- assuming an AA/AS JV goes through.
it took all day for you to realize that AA might be permanently sidelines to last place?
first, AA and AS aren't growing anything international from LAX. AA tried it and failed miserably. AS, as noted by others, continues to shrink at LAX because it is too small - just as in NYC.
DL is committed to growing international and domestic together.
and second, you cling to joint venture partnerships to fix AA's strategic...
it took all day for you to realize that AA might be permanently sidelines to last place?
first, AA and AS aren't growing anything international from LAX. AA tried it and failed miserably. AS, as noted by others, continues to shrink at LAX because it is too small - just as in NYC.
DL is committed to growing international and domestic together.
and second, you cling to joint venture partnerships to fix AA's strategic mistakes just as UA fans do on the east coast. Joint ventures between two domestic carriers - or any other companies even outside of the airline industry - have antitrust concerns and could be limited in scope esp. to/from AA or AS hubs.
Let's wait and see what, if anything, AA and AS get approved.
this is about DL gaining the upper hand at LAX and it is primarily about DL taking that opportunity from UA forever.
DL has the right terminal space, no competing CA hubs, the right aircraft including the 35K to develop the Pacific, and most of all, the financial strength that UA won't have esp. now that UA is paying (or will be) market rates for labor on top of the fuel cost advantage DL has.
LOL. You clearly know nothing. American has the most gates at LAX over Delta and United. It will be the largest airline by volume and has already committed to rebuilding LAX as its gates come back online in 2027 and 2028 (it will have all its gates by May 2027). Alaska had to temporarily shrink because it has temporarily lost 6 gates at LAX. It will start adding back flying (look at the November 2026...
LOL. You clearly know nothing. American has the most gates at LAX over Delta and United. It will be the largest airline by volume and has already committed to rebuilding LAX as its gates come back online in 2027 and 2028 (it will have all its gates by May 2027). Alaska had to temporarily shrink because it has temporarily lost 6 gates at LAX. It will start adding back flying (look at the November 2026 schedule where it brings back triple daily to Newark and Cancun, for example). It also has ~100 new frames coming in four years and guess what airport it has the most room to grow at? LAX.
Will it took all day for you to realize...
@ Tim Dunn -- We're waiting to learn which EWR-LAX frequencies UA operates with 737-900ERs, please!! These are the important details!
You still haven’t become familiar with flight aware
"You still haven’t become familiar with flight aware"
!!!! Yes! sTD is going for not just a double down, I think this is now an "octuple" down!!!
I'll help since I am familiar with flight aware. ;) You don't seem to be, Timmy.
Point to the flight number where UA is flying the 739 on LAX-EWR! Or the historical one. we'll wait.
Helpful hint, Alaska Airlines is not United ;)
https://www.flightaware.com/live/findflight?origin=KLAX&destination=KEWR
https://www.flightaware.com/live/findflight?origin=KEWR&destination=KLAX
Give...
"You still haven’t become familiar with flight aware"
!!!! Yes! sTD is going for not just a double down, I think this is now an "octuple" down!!!
I'll help since I am familiar with flight aware. ;) You don't seem to be, Timmy.
Point to the flight number where UA is flying the 739 on LAX-EWR! Or the historical one. we'll wait.
Helpful hint, Alaska Airlines is not United ;)
https://www.flightaware.com/live/findflight?origin=KLAX&destination=KEWR
https://www.flightaware.com/live/findflight?origin=KEWR&destination=KLAX
Give us the data and the links, son!
@ Tim Dunn -- We're waiting to learn which EWR-LAX frequencies UA operates with 737-900ERs, please!! These are the important details! …. Eskimo asks.
If Walter Mitty Dunn, had a modicum of self respect for himself and those who post upon this website, he would not fail to answer the question posed by Eskimo.
"DL taking that opportunity from UA forever"
Just like how they took the lead position in NYC forever last May?
sTD
Mental comprehension of what others write will help you out a lot when you try to reply to others.
"it took all day for you to realize that AA might be permanently sidelines to last place?"
It really seems like you 1. don't know how to read or 2. Read a post of mine then take 6 shots of off brand Belarusian vodka before replying.
1. Delta may work with LAWA to get...
sTD
Mental comprehension of what others write will help you out a lot when you try to reply to others.
"it took all day for you to realize that AA might be permanently sidelines to last place?"
It really seems like you 1. don't know how to read or 2. Read a post of mine then take 6 shots of off brand Belarusian vodka before replying.
1. Delta may work with LAWA to get more gates -- currently AA has a permanent lead on LAX gates. Delta is not the first airline to try to win LAX but LAWA has yet to give any permanent lead to any US airline via gates. I don't see any indication yet that LAWA is trying to change the competitive dynamic at LAX but I certainly won't be dogmatic in saying that could never happen.
2. Delta is in a permanent second place in SEA and there's no sign of that changing. They're half the size of Alaska and have been unable to change that. what does that mean? The OneWorld Pacific hub that OW has always wanted and needed -- the writing is more than on the wall -- it's written in permanent ink.
3. JV partners -- OneWorld partners out of LAX? Including JV partners that Alaska wants to join? They all align with the biggest international markets out of LAX -- Oceania, Japan, and London. VS is a nice help but all Delta has been able to prove with the VS partnership is that the VS partnership does nothing to help Delta metal on LAX-LHR which has continually tried and failed. United has similar advantages on the West Cost with two Oceania partners (including swiping VA right from under Delta's nose) and the stronger of the two Japan JVs -- and let's not forget how badly Delta tried to have a Japanese JV partner and how even KE sees Delta as weak in SEA with the new AS codeshare partnership potential.
4. Even without an AA/AS revenue JV, Alaska and AA's corporate sales have the ability to sell the most complete domestic network and as mentioned above, a much more useful partner network out of LAX. OneWorld has hubs at every major city on the West Coast and is already the largest alliance at LAX. You love to simply turn a blind eye to that reality but it is one
"and second, you cling to joint venture partnerships to fix AA's strategic mistakes"
And pray tell... what are AA's strategic mistakes in LAX? updating T4 and T5 to once again be the largest carrier at LAX? lol. AA has certainly made many mistakes but terminal renewal at LAX is not one and AA and UA have enormously larger natural advantages at LAX than Delta
The reality is that Delta has no other option on the West Coast than LAX at this point and is clinging to the tried, tested, and failed "win LAX" strategy that they've tried before and other airlines have too.
"this is about DL gaining the upper hand at LAX and it is primarily about DL taking that opportunity from UA forever."
I admire you childlike understanding and optimism. It's cute but as others have ridiculed you for it -- you truly are hilarious and idiotic if you think Delta's upcoming LAX-HKG is any real threat to United and OneWorld on the route. AA is not about to lose corporate customers buying on CX to Deltas since the OW partner dominates frequencies on the route and United has a very long and proud history in HKG, in general. You'll recall that United didn't run away from Tokyo and HKG like Delta did years ago ;)
Wherever you are in the world, there's little more amusing than you pretending to be on vacation while you do nothing more than the exact same basement-dwelling low-light keyboard banging like you do at home to protect a company that fired you...
what a weird life.
I love that fluff and you can’t admit that Delta Albert took American at LAX as the largest airline and is going to submit its lead as the largest international carrier as well
Let us know how your great aspirations of all of American‘s friends bailing out AA work
We love that fluff and the fact that you can’t admit that Delta has considerable faults, just like yourself Walter. American at LAX is the largest airline and is going to increase its lead as the largest international carrier as well.
Let us know how your great aspirations are turning out as far as being a truthful OMAAT commentator? As you are aware, you have no Delta friends bailing you out now Walter.
"Delta Albert"?
Did you take 6 more shots of off brand Belarusian vodka?
Voice dictation has its limits
By the way, I’m enjoying posting compliments of Delta’s free Wi-Fi across the Atlantic
Sure won’t find that amenity on American or united
*(Aircraft Wifi comes up as a topic)
TD: "I'm texting on Delta's free Wifi over the Atlantic, a feature United and American don't have!"
*(United's much earlier Starlink Wifi installs vs. Delta's LEO installs comes up as a topic)
TD: "Nobody picks their airline based on the Wifi service offered."
Are you a stowaway Walter? I trust that you are en route to mainland Europe, before boarding a cross channel RIB with the other free loaders coming to Great Britain?
I had better warn Jeeves to pull up the drawbridge, heat the jars of oil and tension the catapults. Prepare to repel boarders, yes?
"By the way, I’m enjoying posting compliments of Delta’s free Wi-Fi across the Atlantic"
I love that you allow others to ruin your flight so easily and spend HOURS posting nonsense on an aviation site. lol
But yes. You actually will find that exact free wifi across the Atlantic on quite a number of AA flights to LHR.
Let's hope for your sake you aren't connecting on a 717 so you'll keep the free wifi going ;)
I am having all kinds of fun. Don’t you worry.
No, American does not offer Wi-Fi across the Atlantic on its entire system
Wow the Timcel is taking an a$$ beating today on OMAAT
DL grew partly due to AA concourse rebuilds (on going) now that Spirit is gone, and AA has TBIT gates rights, AA will have more gates for mainline and international service. I foresee AA going hard as LAX destination and Asia Pacific supported by PHX hub domestic connects and AK for expanded west coast partner (similar to how B6 would have worked in NYC if the short sighted Dem didn't blow it up). It Think...
DL grew partly due to AA concourse rebuilds (on going) now that Spirit is gone, and AA has TBIT gates rights, AA will have more gates for mainline and international service. I foresee AA going hard as LAX destination and Asia Pacific supported by PHX hub domestic connects and AK for expanded west coast partner (similar to how B6 would have worked in NYC if the short sighted Dem didn't blow it up). It Think UA will be the odd man out eventually and retreat to San Fran again. Big AA and Oneworld opportunity for 2028 and beyond.
To sum up Tim Dunn:
1. Anecdotes/Anecdotally speaking
2. Cherry picking
3. Goes off tangents when he can’t refute the real facts and research
4. Just completely ignores the posts/questions when he knows he cannot win the argument/discussion
5. All in agreement except for Tim obviously
Stanley, to me Walter Mitty Dunn presents a simple Delta Airlines business analyst prospective and is incapable of accepting that many contributors herein are looking at the worldwide aviation industry from a passengers perspective. It is true that he posts no evidence of any personal passenger experience onboard any airline or aircraft.
Walter Mitty is a well deserved nickname for Tim Dunn. Ben’s tame click-bait generator perhaps?
IOW,
you can't counter that DL has a unique opportunity at LAX just as it has successfully taken in other competitive hubs including NYC, BOS, and SEA where it has done what no other US airlines have done in the number of new hubs that have been built, let alone over the past 20 years.
In other words Walter darlink, it is you who “Can't counter” the impression which Stanly and I have expressed about you in our posts above.
Thank you for your graphic display of gobbledygook posted in response to a totally unrelated subject. As Del Boy would say …. “What a plonker” Walter!
IOW,
@ Tim Dunn -- We're waiting to learn which EWR-LAX frequencies UA operates with 737-900ERs, please!! These are the important details!
"hubs including NYC, BOS, and SEA where it has done what no other US airlines have done in the number of new hubs that have been built, let alone over the past 20 years."
1. no one considers SEA a win for Delta.
2. Delta has also closed more failed hubs and focus cities than any other US airline in the last 20-25 years. 3 hubs and 2 (3 if you count their hubris...
"hubs including NYC, BOS, and SEA where it has done what no other US airlines have done in the number of new hubs that have been built, let alone over the past 20 years."
1. no one considers SEA a win for Delta.
2. Delta has also closed more failed hubs and focus cities than any other US airline in the last 20-25 years. 3 hubs and 2 (3 if you count their hubris around MIA that hasn't panned out much) focus cities have been Delta failures.
You Love to count the wins while ignoring the failures. And delta has already all but admitted SEA has no future as a success with their new LAX push.
It doesn’t matter what anyone thinks. The fact is the Delta has built more hubs in the past 20 years than every other US airline combined.
And, no, Delta hasn’t admitted anything about Seattle. That is just your wishful dreams. Delta is waiting for Alaska to announce it’s next moves and Delta will be right on top of it.
" Delta is waiting for Alaska to announce it’s next moves and Delta will be right on top of it."
oh... ok. I'll give you that. Delta is clearly a follower of whatever Alaska does with no actual Delta strategy to change that or the lopsided Alaska size advantage in SEA and up and down the West Coast.
What a network strategy for the great Delta airlines -- we're half the size of the hometown...
" Delta is waiting for Alaska to announce it’s next moves and Delta will be right on top of it."
oh... ok. I'll give you that. Delta is clearly a follower of whatever Alaska does with no actual Delta strategy to change that or the lopsided Alaska size advantage in SEA and up and down the West Coast.
What a network strategy for the great Delta airlines -- we're half the size of the hometown airline and our new Seattle strategy is just copy Alaska...
now there's a winning strategy ;)
Keep digging that hole, sTD
You do realize Delta flew from Seattle to Tokyo and Seoul long before Alaska did but nobody copied anything, right?
The name mini brain is yours for good reason
With basic economy now not getting any miles, they are depending on business travel and travelers who don't mind spending more and also fly often.
The pandemic + basic economy getting zero miles + my reduced business travel means I now have zero loyalty. That is not good for the airlines. Now, my business travel is maybe 3 times a year. I can slowly add to any of my 5 airlines (UA, DL, AA, WN,...
With basic economy now not getting any miles, they are depending on business travel and travelers who don't mind spending more and also fly often.
The pandemic + basic economy getting zero miles + my reduced business travel means I now have zero loyalty. That is not good for the airlines. Now, my business travel is maybe 3 times a year. I can slowly add to any of my 5 airlines (UA, DL, AA, WN, AS). If basic economy got even 10% miles or 1 mile per dollar, it could tip the scale towards loyalty.
@ Tim Dunn -- We're waiting to learn which EWR-LAX frequencies UA operates with 737-900ERs, please!! These are the important details!
LAX: Delta’s Waterloo
Will Ed be visiting Saint Helena, too?
No, only Elba.
makes a ton of sense for them to shift things down to LAX from Seattle for TPAC in particular. Especially if one of the primary motivators is growing the AMEX portfolio. Going from 20% share to 25% share offers a much bigger gain than trying to slug it out to go from 25% share to 30% share in Seattle. LAX is always going to be difficult to make money "flying planes" but Delta has proven...
makes a ton of sense for them to shift things down to LAX from Seattle for TPAC in particular. Especially if one of the primary motivators is growing the AMEX portfolio. Going from 20% share to 25% share offers a much bigger gain than trying to slug it out to go from 25% share to 30% share in Seattle. LAX is always going to be difficult to make money "flying planes" but Delta has proven that's not where they actually make money so it would make sense to try to build out LAX as much as possible unless some of the routes are absolutely hemmoraghing money. Which is still possible!
I just see absolutely no reason for them to grow at SEA (which has proven to be difficult and where AS is growing) relative to LAX (which is much larger and has something of a competitive opening). Yes flying TPAC from LAX is brutally competitive but again the goal is to juice AMEX spend, if you can limit losses on the flying you can make up for it elsewhere
It's wild the way people parrot this nonsense.
Nothing is being "shifted", SEA has only grown flights both longhaul and domestic over the last year. In fact? they just built a D1 Lounge at SEA and added multiple routes. Is it impossible in your mind for an airline to grow multiple hubs?
When BOS gets new routes, no one squawks about Delta "shifting" flying or giving up in JFK. Delta has multiple hubs and are growing them all.
it's honestly kind of sad that some folks still cling to SEA out of nostalgia despite the bloodbath - PNW was always a hail mary given their network, and the other guys caught it. i really want to see DL succeed, so i am hoping they take the L and move on to bigger and better things
you clearly can't admit that DL is able to make SEA work as a niche player just as AA is going to do in ORD.
the difference is that DL has a robust international network from SEA that AS is unlikely to ever be able to match; and AS has far from proven that it can make SEA longhaul work esp. since DL has pretty well matched everything AS is doing
AS is the also...
you clearly can't admit that DL is able to make SEA work as a niche player just as AA is going to do in ORD.
the difference is that DL has a robust international network from SEA that AS is unlikely to ever be able to match; and AS has far from proven that it can make SEA longhaul work esp. since DL has pretty well matched everything AS is doing
AS is the also ran in SEA international. and DL still has large portions of the US where it generates higher fares than AS - esp. to the eastern US.
Regarding about people thinking delta would most likely lose money on lax-hkg and lax-mnl, and wanting to give lax-LHR another try despite failing the first 2 times can sense having more premium configured planes is a game changer for delta on certain long and expensive routes.
Back on delta’s first 2 tries flying lax-LHR it flew 767s and a339s with like 30 business class seats, not ideal for a premium market. Regarding northeast to Asia,...
Regarding about people thinking delta would most likely lose money on lax-hkg and lax-mnl, and wanting to give lax-LHR another try despite failing the first 2 times can sense having more premium configured planes is a game changer for delta on certain long and expensive routes.
Back on delta’s first 2 tries flying lax-LHR it flew 767s and a339s with like 30 business class seats, not ideal for a premium market. Regarding northeast to Asia, back when delta flew jfk-nrt from 2009-2016 it flew 777-200s with 37 business class seats and no premium economy and northwest inherited 747-400s that initially had angle flat 2-2 or 2-3-2 seats up front and no seatback tv in economy (later refitted to 48 reverse herringbone lie flat business class seats and seatback tv in economy). A few years ago on routes like lax-LHR and jfk-Asia the questions were “can we fill this profitably” considering cost of operating the flight, competition, partners (if any around), and in the case of jfk cost of crewing in a standalone a350 flight. With more premium configured aircraft the question becomes “how many seats up front can we sell” to generate high yields.
To be fair LAX LHR isn’t a failure. It’s part of the JV with VS AF and KL. It’s more likely aircraft utilitisation.
VS has two flights a day from. Lax-lhr. Lol is Delta going to use its planes for one of those because it can seem to make its own flight work
UA loves IAH and DEN, but it also loves ORD (and SFO). A lot. Even though AA also has a hub at ORD, they have been rapidly outpaced by UA over the past several years. And I think UA has more seats out of ORD than any other single airport.
That can't be possible because DEN is UA's largest hub.
Interesting they mentioned AA being constrained by terminal construction, as if Delta didn't just go through 10 years of that themselves. I'm happy to see the expansion, and T2/T3 are nice terminals, but they simply can't compete against international carriers and will have to lower prices to compete domestically against AA and United. The best thing about LAX is the consumer choice.
Plus the quality of TBIT that most in international carriers get to use. Might be the nicest terminal in the US.
I am an LAX based flier, but had to land at JFK and IAD recently from overseas flights.
I was shocked how old and dilapidated their international terminals were. At least with TBIT, everything looks new and the terminal itself is expansive.
Between JonNYC's scoops and his insights, he seems like the most prolific scoop-getter and prognosticator in the industry. Smart, insightful guy Jon is. He really leads the way.
‘That… that’s bait.’
*cough* Tim…
Nah, yo give him too much credit.
While he deserves the credit, he's the goto propaganda puppet for airlines.
He's the person airlines goes to officially "leak" insider news.
Then the public aka. "our" reactions would allow airlines to unofficially test our opinions. It's also used to control the narratives of the release too.
"Alaska is shifting to San Diego" isn't even remotely relevant for LAX.
SD is further from LA than Philly is from NYC so the only relevant point is that Alaska is reducing LAX as a priority, nothing to do with SAN.
@ OxyTrojan -- Correct, I think the point is that Delta views Alaska as shifting capacity out of LAX and to SAN. Where the capacity is going isn't necessarily relevant, but the point is that they're going for another SoCal hub.
No they are not. Alaska has temporarily lost six(!) gates at LAX and was forced to reduce. As gates comeback online, they will add back the LAX flying. LAX-EWR is back to triple daily in late fall. LAX-CUN is back. More flying will return. They aren't moving anything to San Diego, where Alaska is performing horribly and losing their shirt. They do quite well at LAX, where they carry more international traffic than either Delta or American.
If delta can do LAX-ORD nonstop, then we have something to talk about. Without that, I can’t move over there from AA.
@ Lindsay -- You're actually getting that in just a few days:
https://onemileatatime.com/news/delta-los-angeles-chicago-route/
Enjoy yourself in Terminal 5, the Eighth Circle Of Hell, with the human dregs that fly F9.
At least T5 is a lot closer to ConRAC on the ATS than T1.
Delta plans to relaunch LAX to LHR with their A350Ks. They had an exec interview with Business Traveler where they talked a lot about LAX growth plans.
Personally speaking, if you just the Delta One check-ins and other ground facilities at LAX, it definitely feels way more elevated than anything United or AA have put out. The only thing close to it in the US is the JFK Flagship check-in with the expedited security lane,...
Delta plans to relaunch LAX to LHR with their A350Ks. They had an exec interview with Business Traveler where they talked a lot about LAX growth plans.
Personally speaking, if you just the Delta One check-ins and other ground facilities at LAX, it definitely feels way more elevated than anything United or AA have put out. The only thing close to it in the US is the JFK Flagship check-in with the expedited security lane, but Delta's JFK and LAX check-ins put you right into the lounge after security, it's a very thoughtful design.
@ yoloswag420 -- There's absolutely no denying that Delta's ground experience is by far the best. How that translates into profits remains to be seen.
I'm not about to go all Tim Dunn here, but clearly Delta is seeing success with the upgraded experiences at LAX.
Nominally speaking, all of their LAX premium transcon and domestic D1 Hawaii fares have skyrocketed.
I imagine Delta is tapping into that "premium" LA traveler that enjoys that high end feeling ground experience.
I'm can't say whether or not that's going to work for them, but that seems to be what they're trying to...
I'm not about to go all Tim Dunn here, but clearly Delta is seeing success with the upgraded experiences at LAX.
Nominally speaking, all of their LAX premium transcon and domestic D1 Hawaii fares have skyrocketed.
I imagine Delta is tapping into that "premium" LA traveler that enjoys that high end feeling ground experience.
I'm can't say whether or not that's going to work for them, but that seems to be what they're trying to do, and it seems to have some level of viability.
Who cares about LAX-LHR? Every other airline already flies it and VS is Delta partner on the route already.
Delta definitely seems to be winning in New York broadly, and JFK and LaGuardia specifically. New York suffers from all the same issues you describe (i.e. can't be a fortress hub). I would imagine they intend to do in LA what they did so successfully in New York.
@ 747-400 -- You're exactly right, they're hoping to do at LAX what they've done at JFK, with a similar percent market share. But I think LAX is much more difficult than JFK.
If you view EWR and JFK as distinct markets, keep in mind UA doesn't fly to JFK at all, AA is extremely weak, and B6 is competitive domestically, but lagging otherwise, and isn't really a very good competitor to DL.
So I...
@ 747-400 -- You're exactly right, they're hoping to do at LAX what they've done at JFK, with a similar percent market share. But I think LAX is much more difficult than JFK.
If you view EWR and JFK as distinct markets, keep in mind UA doesn't fly to JFK at all, AA is extremely weak, and B6 is competitive domestically, but lagging otherwise, and isn't really a very good competitor to DL.
So I think in terms of loyalty, DL has been able to saturate the NY market more than it can do in LA. The other thing to keep in mind is that I would guess that JFK isn't actually a very profitable hub for DL, and instead, the airline just values having a big presence in such an important city.
feel free to provide the data on profitability by hub - for any hub for any airline.
What Scott Kirby says is meaningless.
AA and DL beat UA by a country mile in loyalty program and credit card revenue.
TO no surprise, UA excludes that revenue from its models - but it can easily be applied to specific hubs and even markets.
NYC is a very profitable hub for DL just because of the...
feel free to provide the data on profitability by hub - for any hub for any airline.
What Scott Kirby says is meaningless.
AA and DL beat UA by a country mile in loyalty program and credit card revenue.
TO no surprise, UA excludes that revenue from its models - but it can easily be applied to specific hubs and even markets.
NYC is a very profitable hub for DL just because of the Amex relationship.
add in that DL serves a number of domestic markets where it has the only service from NYC and they get a premium that is far larger than UA's unique markets from NYC - many of which are flown on a seasonal basis on domestic configured aircraft or 757s.
do provide the data you use, Ben.
Otherwise accept that DL does well enough in NYC that it is willing to invest in LAX to do what it achieved in NYC.
And also tell us what other airlines have been doing for the past 48 years that they can't build hubs in competitive markets like DL has done in NYC, BOS, SEA and LAX
Walter, you continue to display your data analysts mentality by failing to turn on the automatic capitalization function on your computer. Your reluctance to apply this typing aid is rather indicative of one who cares less about one’s personal presentation. It therefore brings into question the accuracy of your data and weakens your credibility old bean …. Yes?
"NYC is a very profitable hub for DL just because of the Amex relationship."
I say to you, just as you said to Ben: "feel free to provide the data on profitability by hub...do provide the data you use."
You can include announcements about AMEX revenue from the overall deal, but be sure to provide the actual data on how much of that revenue is assignable to NYC, as well as how much Delta makes...
"NYC is a very profitable hub for DL just because of the Amex relationship."
I say to you, just as you said to Ben: "feel free to provide the data on profitability by hub...do provide the data you use."
You can include announcements about AMEX revenue from the overall deal, but be sure to provide the actual data on how much of that revenue is assignable to NYC, as well as how much Delta makes from NYC flying, and importantly its costs (not just flying, but CAC, etc.).
It seems you are very sure. But you can't demand data for an assertion you don't like, make the opposite broad sweeping assertion, and provide no data yourself.
"NYC is a very profitable hub for DL just because of the Amex relationship."
I say to you, just as you said to Ben: "feel free to provide the data on profitability by hub...do provide the data you use."
You can include announcements about AMEX revenue from the overall deal, but be sure to provide the actual data on how much of that revenue is assignable to NYC, as well as how much Delta makes...
"NYC is a very profitable hub for DL just because of the Amex relationship."
I say to you, just as you said to Ben: "feel free to provide the data on profitability by hub...do provide the data you use."
You can include announcements about AMEX revenue from the overall deal, but be sure to provide the actual data on how much of that revenue is assignable to NYC, as well as how much Delta makes from NYC flying, and importantly its costs (not just flying, but CAC, etc.).
It seems you are very sure. But you can't demand data for an assertion you don't like, make the opposite broad sweeping assertion, and provide no data yourself.
@Ben I recall some discussion that winning at JFK/LGA drives a huge amount of CC spend, as well as corporate contracts. UA/Kirby have famously mentioned the amount of contracts UA lost just because they pulled out of JFK. I can see LAX having a similar factor, and with LAX-JFK being such an import route, I can imagine the extra effects of LA corporate headquarters, high spend customers, and synergies with the existing network being good for DL.
Ben, it's also that New York travelers essentially have their airport "dictated" based on where they live. It is not realistic/practical (unless you live in lower Manhattan) to choose EWR or JFK based solely on price.
Nonetheless, wealth/corporate contracts and premium leisure alike are not overly concentrated towards one or the other's catchment area. As such, Delta at JFK and United at EWR can both have dominant hubs with fairly healthy pricing power.
If it...
Ben, it's also that New York travelers essentially have their airport "dictated" based on where they live. It is not realistic/practical (unless you live in lower Manhattan) to choose EWR or JFK based solely on price.
Nonetheless, wealth/corporate contracts and premium leisure alike are not overly concentrated towards one or the other's catchment area. As such, Delta at JFK and United at EWR can both have dominant hubs with fairly healthy pricing power.
If it were easy for most people to get to either airport interchangeably, I have no doubt that UA and DL would have to scale back in New York or else they would bleed money fast (sort of like what looked like was going to happen at ORD with UA and AA before the FAA stepped in).
as I have been saying for years.
DL is all about executing on a continuous upward direction in the best timing in contrast to its competitors (well one anway) that are totally fixated on 0-100 with the certaity that the wall will be hit.
LAX has never been dominated because no airline has had the financial wherewithall to gain the share necessary to win over the market. DL is set to do that - and...
as I have been saying for years.
DL is all about executing on a continuous upward direction in the best timing in contrast to its competitors (well one anway) that are totally fixated on 0-100 with the certaity that the wall will be hit.
LAX has never been dominated because no airline has had the financial wherewithall to gain the share necessary to win over the market. DL is set to do that - and use its unique financial benefits from Amex, the refinery and the MRO - which its JV partners do not have, btw - to do what no US airline can do.
and the implication is that UA's hub up the road at SFO will be much less certain given that there will be a 2nd genuine global hub in California.
AA gave LAX the best shot but concentrated too much on China and HKG.
DL will have a much more global network.
this will be fun to watch
@ Tim Dunn -- "no airline has had the financial wherewithall to gain the share necessary to win over the market." To put that in plainer terms, you're saying that DL can afford to lose a lot of money at LAX for a long time?
no. DL has slowly invested in building hubs by building markets.
AA tried to rapidly grow LAX and lost money.
UA has thrown tons of capacity into its TPAC and TATL markets pre and post covid and has supressed its earnings. DL makes far more on its international network than UA even though UA flies more capacity.
DL takes a measured approach which means allowing each route to develop - no different than what other...
no. DL has slowly invested in building hubs by building markets.
AA tried to rapidly grow LAX and lost money.
UA has thrown tons of capacity into its TPAC and TATL markets pre and post covid and has supressed its earnings. DL makes far more on its international network than UA even though UA flies more capacity.
DL takes a measured approach which means allowing each route to develop - no different than what other airlines or restaurants or stores do - and will win in the end.
Don't take my word. Just revisit this conversation in 2030 and let's discuss whether DL has achieved at LAX what it has done in NYC.
@Tim - what are we defining what DL “has done in NYC“ that you want to then compare what LAX becomes over a 4-year window against?
Daniel, shh shh shh, specifics are hard…
“achieved at LAX what it has done in NYC”
You mean shrink while UA grows, cutting domestic and international routes?
"(A)nd the implication is that UA's hub up the road at SFO will be much less certain given that there will be a 2nd genuine global hub in California."
There is practically NO chance DL is going to come even close @LAX as to what UA does at SFO.
We've seen this dance already. Next economic downturn, all gains will be lost, then UA or AA will fill in the void. Rinse and repeat.
you do realize that it is DL that has gained at the expense of AA over the past 15 years.
DL is now gunning for UA and DL will use its financial strength to win where UA has been the strongest.
Scotty just got checkmated.
Me: *(Putting "Delta Checkmates United in LAX" on my "Things Tim Dunn Was Wrong About Again" Bingo Card)
So DL is checkmating UA with:
- Transcon flights with so big a NPS hit, DL is pleading with their pilots to help make up the difference
- Being way late in installing next-gen Wifi, planned to begin in 2028, which may be further delayed after the only New Glenn launchpad was just destroyed
- Flights on 767-300s with poor reliability that need to be retired
- Narrowbody business seat plans that...
So DL is checkmating UA with:
- Transcon flights with so big a NPS hit, DL is pleading with their pilots to help make up the difference
- Being way late in installing next-gen Wifi, planned to begin in 2028, which may be further delayed after the only New Glenn launchpad was just destroyed
- Flights on 767-300s with poor reliability that need to be retired
- Narrowbody business seat plans that just got abandoned, putting DL at the end of the supply chain order bank for the same thing AA/UA is getting
- Completely eliminating any cabin service on shorter flights
- A350-1000s DL is only starting to get next year, vs UA's 787-9s with the elevated interior which UA has now (6 and counting)
Um, okay.
Don't forget Delta is also using their worse on-time rates, higher cancellation rates, and higher number of consumer complaints in 2026 to "checkmate" United.
But Delta's 0.35% better Mishandled Baggage Handling rate will put them over the top!
So much cope, such little time.
And I want to have intimate relations with a half-dozen hot bears on the flaming wreckage of Delta, but that apparently is just a pleasurable fantasy. Just like Delta dominating LAX.
Hot bears you say……?