As much as Delta Air Lines often gets credit for being a “premium” airline, the reality is that many of the carrier’s long haul aircraft don’t have particularly competitive interiors, especially in Delta One business class.
Along those lines, there’s at least some positive news when it comes to a subfleet of aircraft that Delta has been flying in recent years…
In this post:
Basics of Delta’s ex-LATAM Airbus A350-900s
In 2019, Delta announced plans to invest in LATAM, which was a major development at the time. Unfortunately the timing didn’t prove to be great, given the pandemic. In May 2020, LATAM filed for bankruptcy protection due to the pandemic, and as part of that, the airline announced it would retire its entire Airbus A350-900 fleet.
Delta took advantage of this opportunity to grow its own fleet. The airline picked up nine used LATAM A350s. The planes were still very new, and given that Delta had retired its entire Boeing 777 fleet during the pandemic, the airline saw value in using the planes to grow capacity (which was wise, given the strong demand we’ve seen in recent years for long haul travel).
So over the past few years, we’ve seen these planes phased into service, though unfortunately the experience left a lot of passengers disappointed.
For context, Delta’s standard A350-900s have historically featured 306 seats, including:
- 32 business class seats with doors, in a 1-2-1 configuration
- 48 premium economy seats, in a 2-4-2 configuration
- 226 economy seats, in a 3-3-3 configuration
Meanwhile the former LATAM A350-900s feature 339 seats, including:
- 30 business class seats, in a 2-2-2 configuration
- 63 extra legroom economy seats (not premium economy), in a 3-3-3 configuration
- 246 economy seats, in a 3-3-3 configuration
As you can see, these former LATAM jets featured a pretty uncompetitive experience, as they don’t have direct aisle access from every business class seat, and don’t have premium economy. Furthermore, they didn’t initially have Wi-Fi, but that has since been installed.
Delta had committed to reconfiguring the ex-LATAM A350-900s to feature the standard Delta interiors, though the process of reconfiguring these planes has been anything but quick. Fortunately there’s now a positive update…
Delta has almost completed its A350 retrofit project
Over the past year or so, Delta has slowly been reconfiguring its A350-900s to feature the carrier’s updated interiors. So far, seven of the nine ex-LATAM A350s have been reconfigured. There’s now a positive update, as it appears that all of the A350s with ex-LATAM interiors should be out of service by late October 2025, coinciding with the end of the IATA summer travel season.
As flagged by AeroRoutes, the last ex-LATAM A350 flight has been scheduled for October 25, 2025. So while there’s still a chance you might end up on one of these planes, odds are small.
Keep in mind that these planes are being reconfigured not in Delta’s original A350-900 layout, but instead, in the new premium layout. In 2024, the Atlanta-based carrier revealed it would introduce new lower density A350s. Rather than featuring 306 seats, they instead feature 275 seats. Essentially, these planes have 40 business class seats (rather than 32), 48 premium economy seats (rather than 40), and 195 economy seats (rather than 226).
So I’d say that this is all great news. Now if only Delta could do something about its Boeing 767-300ER fleet, as those planes otherwise have the worst international, wide body business class product of any “big three” US airline (and please don’t “BuT tHoSe PlAnEs WiLl Be PhAsEd OuT oF iNtErNaTiOnAl FlYiNg By 2030” me).
Bottom line
In 2022, Delta began flying some ex-LATAM Airbus A350-900s, which the airline opportunistically acquired. While the added capacity was good for Delta, unfortunately the onboard experience left a lot to be desired.
In recent times, we’ve seen Delta start to reconfigure these jets into the standard Delta layouts, and there’s now some good news. Only two of the planes remain in their original layout, and the expectation is that they’ll be reconfigured by late October 2025. So Delta passengers will only have to deal with these planes for a couple more months.
What do you make of this update about Delta’s ex-LATAM A350s?
To all the trolls named below in previous posts …. please do not count me amongst your pathetic attempts to violate the sanctity of this church website. I certainly do not believe in the supernatural and I do not worship at the alter of Tim Dun. Poor Ben, Tim gets more fan mail than Ben does …. xxxx
Great job speedballing Dunn’s narcissism, Ben.
Ben is smart enough to know that I would have no power if other people didn't respond.
and you highlight precisely that people give me power by fixating on me.
The subject is DL's 9 ex-Latam 350s and their competitive product offering. Think you could contribute to the subject?
"I would have no power if other people didn't respond."
That's the truest thing anyone's ever said here, and something many of the dumb@sses who complain about you (even when you DON'T post) can't seem to get through their heads.
There's a unique power all its own in getting Tim to waste his entire day with one sentence.
there's even more power in my ability to get you and others wrapped up so that YOU waste your time replying.
the topic is 9 DL widebodies, Max.
count your paragraphs, loser.
I'm sure not the one wasting his entire life in a comment forum.
you can only wish you were as efficient as I am.
instead, you are jealous that I take the stage as much as I do.
The green eyed monsters who troll Tim Dunn, are about as intelligent as the bacteria dripping from the end of their noses.
One has to have pity for their poor demented souls …. xxxx
So, the article starts with an incredibly misleading headline that is designed to have you click on and read the article. At that point, you've been had. First off, the A350s aren't being phased out, despite what the sensationalist headline says. That's misleading and you find that out as you read this. What you'll also see here is a whole lot of whining about (and exaggerating) a not-as-competitive-product-as-it-could-be....that is actually not that bad.
And,...
So, the article starts with an incredibly misleading headline that is designed to have you click on and read the article. At that point, you've been had. First off, the A350s aren't being phased out, despite what the sensationalist headline says. That's misleading and you find that out as you read this. What you'll also see here is a whole lot of whining about (and exaggerating) a not-as-competitive-product-as-it-could-be....that is actually not that bad.
And, again, the A350s aren't being phased out (which made no sense, which is why I read this). No, just refurbished.
I'm going to file a lawsuit if you don't stop spoofing my account!
The focus on “direct aisle access” and closed doors over actual comfort is mind-boggling to me. For me, the most important feature of business class is a comfortable bed and it’s really hard to beat these “old” LATAM seats (which I think are basically the same seats used on TK 777s and LO 787s) in this department.
Getting quickly into the aisle and playing with the door is something to do while stretching away from the uncomfortable reverse-herringbone seat.
Because some of us value privacy. I'd much rather deal with a narrower space for my feet than with another person next to me. Especially if I want to sleep. Also, on a 14 hours flight, I usually leave my seat dozen or more times, and having to bother someone to let me out each time is not great.
Mike, it's a standard Delta marketed extensively: "All aisle access" and "doors on suites".
Whether or not they matter isn't really the point. The point is the hypocrisy of Delta in marketing these things as the "first" then being the first to ditch any standard in product when it was convenient for them.
But good for Delta to finally get these planes to somewhat of a brand standard.
max,
of course direct aisle access matters. It isn't just DL and not even just US airlines that have almost entirely converted business class to a direct aisle configuration.
and whether you or anyone else thinks suites that include doors matters, it has become the product attribute that matters and distinguishes business class product types.
Of course the ex-Latam are comfortable planes and do not have direct aisle access or doors -but it was...
max,
of course direct aisle access matters. It isn't just DL and not even just US airlines that have almost entirely converted business class to a direct aisle configuration.
and whether you or anyone else thinks suites that include doors matters, it has become the product attribute that matters and distinguishes business class product types.
Of course the ex-Latam are comfortable planes and do not have direct aisle access or doors -but it was known from the day Delta bought them that they would be converted. It has taken years to get the supply chain lined up to convert them - but, again, what other airlines have successfully converted 9 or more widebodies head to tail?
The point about the ex-Latam 350s is not whether they have doors or direct aisle access but the incessant attempts that some people - almost entirely UA fans - to trash talk what DL does while thinking way too highly of what UA offers.
They argue that only widebodies matters and yet AA and DL and most other global airlines don't fly 757s or any narrowbody on 7.5 hr and longer flights.
They argue that UA's domestic configured 772s are different and yet they do compete against AA and DL widebodies esp. to Hawaii.
and then we have people like Ben that incessantly need to throw the 767-300ER into the conversation despite the fact that plane has nothing to do with the ex-Latam 359s.
If some people could simply accept facts and quit looking for a reason to argue and one up someone else, we might have a more peaceful internet - but that is probably not what Ben really wants.
I'm with you on this one, Mike. Love these seats on TK 777s. I sleep so well! It's much easier to roll over in bed and find a great sleep position with this kind of seat than those with narrow footwells.
I care a lot more about leg room in flat bed mode than I do about doors, or WiFi (which I rarely if ever use on a plane), or even direct aisle access (I...
I'm with you on this one, Mike. Love these seats on TK 777s. I sleep so well! It's much easier to roll over in bed and find a great sleep position with this kind of seat than those with narrow footwells.
I care a lot more about leg room in flat bed mode than I do about doors, or WiFi (which I rarely if ever use on a plane), or even direct aisle access (I can climb over my husband if I'm on the inside side). I do get why lack of direct aisle access is sub-optimal if seated next to a stranger, but since I'm mostly a leisure traveler, I'm usually flying with family or friends.
I like the curtains in AirFrance La Premiere, but a door someone standing can see over? What is the point?
Plane Jane, Julie, Julia, Eskimo, Mason, Dim Tunn, all the other usual trolls.
We are all the same person (but that should be pretty obvious by now!)
Notice how we all use the same language and signal boost our comments with likes that regular people wouldn't care about at all? It's a very obvious pattern from our history.
i resent this so much. i invented the dim tunn bit and i am NOT one of you.
You need help Tim & Aero
We are not the same person. You, however, certainly seem to know something about that Tim/Aero/Mason. Tim has been noted by Ben as using multiple names in his most recent OMAAT ban. But nice try with your gaslighting. It was a pretty lame attempt.
The pathetic prolific poster promotes profanities particularly from others of its kind …. xxxx
The day OMAAT jumped the shark.
This is perhaps the worst article in a while, It was a great deal for Delta but they didn’t update the interiors fast enough for you. Quit whining.
Like a few other people here, I don’t think the old LATAM business class is that bad. Flew it Miami to Santiago de Chile and back last year. Plenty of leg space, comfortable overall. I’d say the bed was more comfortable than Polaris. Not much privacy, but for an overnight flight, who cares really.
Why the hell is someone impersonating me?
Are you asking why Tim and Aero are mentally deranged? That seems obvious.
It's confusing how you state "the last 350 with ex-LATAM interiors will be phased out:. The plane won't be phased out, its interiors will be updated to current Delta 350 standards...
@ImmortalSynn
Incredibly well said and totally agree with your ever word it’s just getting ridiculous that the site is just a DELTA baiting exercise now to get a rise from that person and the continuing and relentless barrage of back and forth - no longer a fan
And keep in mind that the entire article is based on at least two factually incorrect items.
I have followed the airline industry, long enough to know that there are people that desperately want Delta to fall.
Ben is smart enough to throw just a little bit of red meat out there and let the wolves have at it.
My role is simply to provide the truth, which a lot of people don’t...
And keep in mind that the entire article is based on at least two factually incorrect items.
I have followed the airline industry, long enough to know that there are people that desperately want Delta to fall.
Ben is smart enough to throw just a little bit of red meat out there and let the wolves have at it.
My role is simply to provide the truth, which a lot of people don’t want to hear.
The irony is that American has the most consistent wide body fleet, not Delta and not united and yet these articles always focus on Delta and United and it stems directly from United’s CEO who incessantly compares his company to Delta. It is honestly pathological.
If a company is really good, they don’t need to tell the world because the world already knows it.
This post needs 100 comments.
I have nothing particularly insightful to add, but I sincerely hope one of these renovated A350s gets deployed ATL-DUB at some point in the not-too-distant future.
One can dream.
That won’t happen.
For those who are fond of this configuration (seemingly quite a few of the commenters) can still enjoy it on Edelweiss, which also purchased some of the Latam planes … Edelweiss claims that the configuration is preferred by couples. As a matter of fact they are a premium leisure airline, so this might actually be true for them. But for DL which is also aiming at the corporate market, this is arguably not the case.
Not just Edelweiss, but THAI have got their hands on 2 NTU LATAM A350s that went originally to Hainan then SAA, HS-THQ & HS-THR, flying regional routes out of BKK, often reported that the beds are more comfy than on their own, 1-2-1 config birds.
Although those 2 birds will funnily enough leave the fleet in 2026 and go to Edelweiss.
Lucky, have you flown on these LATAM A350s?
I think not.
They may be unpleasing to the eye, but these are THE MOST comfortable flat beds out there.
No privacy? No direct aisle access?
No matter!
I flew on these jets with Qatar Airways years ago (DOH to Munich).
Those Qatam flights were so awesome.
I slept so well.
So bottom line Lucky.
Don’t knock ‘em till you tried ‘em!
Peace out.
I 100% agree. I flew on one of the 2 that THAI have in this config in J. And yes, while not as aesthetically pleasing, in terms of comfort as a seat and a bad, they beat almost any reverse herringbone config. Being both wider and longer.
Only flew it on a short 3 hr flight from BKK to Jakarta but would happily take it on a long haul leg too!
Exactly! You can find the same seats on TK 777s and LO 787s and they are amazing for sleeping!
I'm laughing so hard right now
and please don’t “BuT tHoSe PlAnEs WiLl Be PhAsEd OuT oF iNtErNaTiOnAl FlYiNg By 2030” me
I just flew ICN-DTW a few weeks ago...pilot was so proud to tell us the plane was only a few days old in rotation...no wifi the entire flight...
obviously i love trolling (in fact, i live for it) but i simply cannot imagine getting as worked up as some do over seats on airplanes...(and i fly 100k+ miles/year BIS!)
you do realize Ben wrote the article?
was he worked up?
seems like a whole lot of people that think Polaris is something special are the ones that are worked up
I don't usually agree with you, but 1000% on Polaris. What is people's obsession over it. The Lounges are fine, the seats are nut cutting edge and the food onboard is terrible.
Good news for me. I can easily book a DL J flight not on a 767 and know one won't be swapped in (late at least). I didn't previously have a guarantee the Latam 359s might not be swapped in for the 359 I originally booked. And, I must say I have great affection for the 2-3-2 Y seating and the 2-2-2 PE on the 767 from my days of cheaper tickets.
DL has kept the ex-Latam 350s "fenced" from the original DL 359s from the beginning.
They simply did not swap ex-Latam 350s for original DL 359s on an unscheduled basis.
If anything, original DL 350s flew ex-Latam 350 flights but not the other way around.
Tim, what's your real name? What is your position with Delta? Communications Director? Social Media Public Relations?
You are clearly an employee. No one can be this conversant with Delta Ops and this anal about deflecting any criticism of Delta unless they are an insider.
Well, no, I am not an employee, but I do know there has been an incredible fixation with these nine aircraft since the day that Delta acquired them. I can absolutely assure you that if Delta swapped 350 types, the Internet would explode.
The only thing I defend is the truth and some people absolutely can’t stand that. Delta got a screaming deal on nine very lightly used high technology new generation aircraft and they...
Well, no, I am not an employee, but I do know there has been an incredible fixation with these nine aircraft since the day that Delta acquired them. I can absolutely assure you that if Delta swapped 350 types, the Internet would explode.
The only thing I defend is the truth and some people absolutely can’t stand that. Delta got a screaming deal on nine very lightly used high technology new generation aircraft and they have managed to convert them to their new standard configuration while very few other airlines in the world have been able to do a nose to recondition nine or more widebody aircraft since Covid.
I flew an A350-9L ATL-TLV. I was in C+. The plane was very nice, comfortable, and the service excellent. I have no complaints, and I knew they would be upgraded eventually. I was just thankful that aircraft enabled DL to open the new route. Admittedly, the return flight TLV-JFK was on an A330 and I was in a much nicer, more comfortable PS seat. Still I will not complain about the ex Latam plane. And...
I flew an A350-9L ATL-TLV. I was in C+. The plane was very nice, comfortable, and the service excellent. I have no complaints, and I knew they would be upgraded eventually. I was just thankful that aircraft enabled DL to open the new route. Admittedly, the return flight TLV-JFK was on an A330 and I was in a much nicer, more comfortable PS seat. Still I will not complain about the ex Latam plane. And the cabin crew made up for not being up front. It was clean, fresh, not old and warn looking. No hate for the ex Latam A350!
This thread is a mindf#ck of psychology:
The author engagement-baiting a single individual, with full cognizance of how it will be received, and how the individual will be responded to by others; in a cascading effect of engagement that always delivers increased click-through.
That target individual, fully taking the bait, in a way any fisherman would be jealous of.
The people who pretend to hate that target's contributions, but who will also endlessly complain about...
This thread is a mindf#ck of psychology:
The author engagement-baiting a single individual, with full cognizance of how it will be received, and how the individual will be responded to by others; in a cascading effect of engagement that always delivers increased click-through.
That target individual, fully taking the bait, in a way any fisherman would be jealous of.
The people who pretend to hate that target's contributions, but who will also endlessly complain about his absence if he DOESN'T show up to do the ranting that they claim to hate.
And lastly, another individual talking back and forth between his/her own self under different screen names, but making the exact same grammatical errors in all of them.
Just wow, lol.
It's a big yikes for sure
Ben knew exactly what was doing.
It is the at-least-once-per-week DL vs UA pil789ung match.
And I enjoy it because I get to highlight how delusional so many UA fans are
Mary's post below proves it.
I'm waiting for someone oo let us know WHY Polaris didn't get on that list of best business class seats.
DL has about half the wide body business suites as UA and less than a third of the number of D1 suites as UA has Polaris suites. It's a credit to DL marketing and inflight that they make up for Delta's inability to modify aircraft interiors in a timely manner. Heck, they started adding Delta One Suites eight years ago. Maybe they should wait for the suites on the 35Xs in 2027.
the reason why I come back is because of arrogant people like you, rebel.
UA has NO widebody suites if suite is defined by a business class seat w/ a door.
It speaks volumes about UA's strategic decisions that they introduced a high density lie flat product at the same time DL introduced suites w/ doors AND then they copied the same new generation seat that AA rolled out.
UA is one of the...
the reason why I come back is because of arrogant people like you, rebel.
UA has NO widebody suites if suite is defined by a business class seat w/ a door.
It speaks volumes about UA's strategic decisions that they introduced a high density lie flat product at the same time DL introduced suites w/ doors AND then they copied the same new generation seat that AA rolled out.
UA is one of the VERY FEW global airlines that has tried to have a standardized business class product and the result is a product that is far from best-in-class.
Social media never reflects reality but when there are keyboard warriors like you that can't accept that real customers do not see Polaris for anywhere close to what real customers say, it is clear you are as delusional and detached from reality as they come.
and you are emblematic of so many UA fans.
Tim Dunn says, "UA has NO widebody suites if suite is defined by a business class seat w/ a door."
A three-foot door offers little additional privacy in an airplane. I'll take the larger more comfortable lie flat seat/bed, but marketing being what it is United is joining the party. And if the past is prologue UA customers will be able to expect a more consistent premium product sooner and throughout their international wide body fleet well before the US competition.
I usually find Ben complaining about AA routinely before being critical of DAL occasionally.
I think it's because AA is just usually dreadful. DL, despite the 763 and 764 tends to have great crews....just my own observations
I don't really care if Tim posts or not, but when you can make someone spend his entire day writing endless paragraphs in response to about two sentences from me, why not? Tim's time seems to mean very little to him so long as Delta is defended. He's far too easily baited and has no idea no one takes him seriously.
The situational awareness is rather low with Tim.
you do realize that I voice dictate a whole lot of stuff I post on social media?
you are the fool if you actually spend time typing replies
LOL that makes it 100000x funnier.
picture timmy hunched over his phone shouting "NO I SAID PREMIUM SEATS!!! I WAS TALKING ABOUT RASM NOT CASM!!!!!!"
It’s worse; Ben isn’t doing it just for fun; he’s being manipulated by phrases like “Ben’s smart enough to know…”
Hopefully he’ll wake up in time to save his site.
Obviously there's much more to customer satisfaction than the very latest hard product. DL is consistently ahead of UA and AA (OK, that's no feat at all) in all large scale surveys (e.g. JD Powers) or specialized business-class specific rankings (e.g. Skytrax).
https://www.jdpower.com/business/press-releases/2025-north-america-airline-satisfaction-study
https://www.worldairlineawards.com/worlds-best-business-class-airlines-2025/
Show me one where UA is ahead of DL. Until then, people have spoken.
Obviously there's much more to customer satisfaction than the very latest hard product. DL is consistently ahead of UA and AA (OK, that's no feat at all) in all large scale surveys (e.g. JD Powers) or specialized business-class specific rankings (e.g. Skytrax).
https://www.jdpower.com/business/press-releases/2025-north-america-airline-satisfaction-study
https://www.worldairlineawards.com/worlds-best-business-class-airlines-2025/
Show me one where UA is ahead of DL. Until then, people have spoken.
Here are some interesting facts
UA: 9,328 Polaris suites of its 9,988 total wide body business class seats
DL: 2,164 Delta One suites + 714 D1-like suites (764s) = 2,878 of a total of its 5,480 wide body business class seats.
UA: 37 763s + 16 764s = 53 767s
DL: 39 763s + 21 764s = 60 767s
first, you and others fixate on business class while failing to accurately note that the 767 has more coach room than the entirety of AA or UA's 9 abreast 787s or 10 abreast 777s
Polaris was a competitively outdated product the day it was rolled out and yet people like you still think it is the greatest thing since sliced bread.
It is a high density business class product that is far less spacious than...
first, you and others fixate on business class while failing to accurately note that the 767 has more coach room than the entirety of AA or UA's 9 abreast 787s or 10 abreast 777s
Polaris was a competitively outdated product the day it was rolled out and yet people like you still think it is the greatest thing since sliced bread.
It is a high density business class product that is far less spacious than AA or DL's non-suite products such as on the AA 777 fleet and the DL 330CEO fleet.
Polaris is a better product than the DL 767-300ER product but vastly inferior to DL's Delta One Suite product on the A350s and the 330NEOs - of which there will be more than 80 aircraft by the end of the year when the ex-Latam 350 fleet conversion is complete.
And what is most laughable as you and others tout Polaris is that the advantage of Polaris being available on all of UA's widebodies ends THE VERY MOMENT that UA takes delivery of its newest 787s.
and we haven't even talked about UA's 757 which doesn't even offer direct aisle access -and there are far more of them than the 9 ex-Latam 350s and UA's 757s fly much further legs than DL's 757s which fly no flights to continental Europe or the UK.
If only Delta agreed with your definition of "Europe", Tim.
They do not. And yes, per their JV, Delta does fly their 752 to Europe per their own contractual definitions of it.
if only you could read and not try to manipulate.
I said the UK and continental Europe and you can add Ireland.
Feel free to list the DL flights that operate on 757s to those locations.
Tim Dunn says, "you and others fixate on business class while failing to accurately note that the 767 has more coach room than the entirety of AA or UA's 9 abreast 787s or 10 abreast 777s"
As I said above UA just seven fewer 767s than DL. Apples to apples.
now tell us the size of UA's 757 fleet and the size of their 777 domestic high density fleet that competes with AA and DL's internationally configured widebodies. AA and DL have no domestic configured high density widebodies.
You wouldn't know apples to apples if it hit you up the side of the head
Delta does fly their 752 long distances and under the umbrella of their European JV.
Let's dispense with the idiocy, Tim.
United's high Density 777 fly to Hawaii, not much else unless it's an aircraft sub.
Get your facts right before you speak. I'd say you wouldn't know apples to apples but you've already been dropped on your head many times in life, it seems.
Tim Dunn says, "now tell us the size of UA's 757 fleet and the size of their 777 domestic high density fleet that competes with AA and DL's internationally configured widebodies."
You might want to read your own post. UA's "777 domestic high density fleet" doesn't compete internationally and the routes UA's 757s flies long thin int'l markets. If DL wants to use their relatively scarce wide body assets to low yield markets like Hawaii...
Tim Dunn says, "now tell us the size of UA's 757 fleet and the size of their 777 domestic high density fleet that competes with AA and DL's internationally configured widebodies."
You might want to read your own post. UA's "777 domestic high density fleet" doesn't compete internationally and the routes UA's 757s flies long thin int'l markets. If DL wants to use their relatively scarce wide body assets to low yield markets like Hawaii that is more a function of limited higher yielding options. Suffices to say since United has 28% more wide bodies, nearly twice the number of business class seats and three times more Polaris Suites than DL's D1 suits that it has more than enough assets to compete in any premium international market that it deems appropriate.
Some more facts.
UA: 227 WB, 188 WB/501 NB aircraft on order, 15.6 average fleet age
DA: 177 WB, 29 WB/246 NB aircraft on order, 14.9 average fleet age
RIP. It was the most premium inferior product except all the inferior products outside the US.
Right Samo!
Delta …. 22 DOWN 1 place on last year!
United …. 51 Down 7 places on last year!
American …. 83 poor American down another 5 places on last year!
As we say on the right side of the pond Samo, put those facts in your pipe and smoke them!
Suck it up old bean, suck it up!
Not our resident "Brit" obsessed with Delta and US airlines again?
how surprising except it's not because it's just another fake Tim anonymous login. Or I'm starting to think 1990 from VFTW since they both have the same horrible grammar and desire to throw out random terms and slang in their posts.
Loser.
Yes John, you have quite correctly identified Plain Jane as one real unmitigated “Loser”, how astute of you old bean …. :-)
the real story here - whether Ben or anyone sees or says it - is that DL managed to acquire a fleet of 9 low time new generation widebodies during the pandemic AND is successfully reconfiguring them.
Given that Ben has talked endlessly about supply chain issues impacting aircraft retrofits for MANY airlines, it is to DL's credit that they have managed to complete (or will later this year) a retrofit project that few other...
the real story here - whether Ben or anyone sees or says it - is that DL managed to acquire a fleet of 9 low time new generation widebodies during the pandemic AND is successfully reconfiguring them.
Given that Ben has talked endlessly about supply chain issues impacting aircraft retrofits for MANY airlines, it is to DL's credit that they have managed to complete (or will later this year) a retrofit project that few other airlines have succeeded at doing.
And, for those that think it is a diversion to talk about other airlines as part of this subject, the title is a comparative statement.
AA simply chose to get rid of its A330, 757 and 767 fleets during the pandemic and has lost out on multiple opportunities to open new markets that have helped DL and UA access strong international revenues. AA has said for years that it will retrofit both its 321T and 777W fleets but have completed neither fleet.
UA chose not to retire any aircraft, has the oldest fleet including among widebodies among global airlines and still has not received a new aircraft with new generation suites. AA beat them to that and AA followed DL by almost a decade. Even "excusing" the 757s and the 737s which are used on flights longer than AA or DL use narrowbodies for international routes, UA has made no commitments to retire international aircraft.
Airplanes have hard time limits without very expensive overhauls so UA faces a massive retirement and replacement process over the next 5-7 years.
and, ultimately, airplanes equip their fleets to make money; as much as some people want to deny the accuracy of the data, DL simply makes far more money flying the Atlantic than either AA or UA does. There are solid reasons.
The 767-300ER is a flex summer seasonal aircraft and a domestic widebody -the way it was intended; Boeing just built a plane that could support enough range for the 767 to become a huge part of the US carrier widebody fleet over 5 decades.
DL can see the end of life coming for the 767 and is and will be upgrading and replacing its 767 fleet with larger widebodies, including potentially the 787.
9 paragraphs just to look like a freaky obsessed Delta fanboy.
Imagine being this much of a loser about a plane configuration for an airline that proved they don't care about any product consistency and from an airline that fired you.
And also using all your fake logins to go full-court press throughout the comment section to seem like people agree with you.
Just how unbelievably sad and tragic that a human being like this exists.
no, dear, 9 facts to give you and others the facts that you can't accept despite the fact that they are categorically true.
the only thing that is sad and tragic is that people like you are wedded to lies.
I, at least, believe what is true.
If I were wrong, you and others could counter them w/ facts.
@Plane Jane, do you ever post anything of substance? Just curious.
Thank you for the grin Redacted, for your information, the very Plain Jane would not recognise “Substance” even if it slapped the poor dear between the eyes.
oh no. Not Aero posting as an anonymous login again with his usual fake syntax and grammar? If you're going to pretend to be a Brit, at least learn how to speak like one rather than like 1990 on VFTW.
@redacted
Do you?
Tim Dunn says, "DL managed to acquire a fleet of 9 low time new generation widebodies during the pandemic AND is successfully reconfiguring them."
Successfully? They announced the deal in 2021 and are just now planning to send the last two in for interior modifications and less than half of DL wide bodies have D1 suites?
How many 'delivered' brand new DL A321neos are sitting over on a ramp in Europe without engines after DL...
Tim Dunn says, "DL managed to acquire a fleet of 9 low time new generation widebodies during the pandemic AND is successfully reconfiguring them."
Successfully? They announced the deal in 2021 and are just now planning to send the last two in for interior modifications and less than half of DL wide bodies have D1 suites?
How many 'delivered' brand new DL A321neos are sitting over on a ramp in Europe without engines after DL took delivery? Reportedly, DL went with a new vendor that installed materials that don't meet FAA combustibility standards.
Tell us how many XLRs AA and UA have received or will receive on time
and then tell us how many other airlines have successfully reconfigured 9 or more widebodies nose to tail. It isn't a long list.
hypocrite.
Tim Dunn says, "Tell us how many XLRs AA and UA have received or will receive on time"
And here I thought we were talking about Neos, but United reconfigured its entire international wide body fleet of 204 aircraft with a consistent premium product including far more seats in Polaris, Premium Plus and Economy Plus in less than seven years and will be introducing the next more refined version including Polaris Studios beginning this year....
Tim Dunn says, "Tell us how many XLRs AA and UA have received or will receive on time"
And here I thought we were talking about Neos, but United reconfigured its entire international wide body fleet of 204 aircraft with a consistent premium product including far more seats in Polaris, Premium Plus and Economy Plus in less than seven years and will be introducing the next more refined version including Polaris Studios beginning this year.
UA: 30 wide bodies/year in new configuration
DL: 10 wide bodies/year in new configuration
There is a big difference between OEM delays and taking delivery of planes S321 Neos, immediately parking them and removing their engines.
Looking back do you think Delta should have kept their 777 fleet and retired some of their 767s instead?
Delta could only be considered "premium" to a popular as myopic and uncultured as Americans. The entire rest of the world sees it for the trash it is.
Check your spelling.
Check your vagina.
I found it fine coming back from NZ in business class. With my wife do aisle access wasn’t an issue. Seats are much roomier than AA 772 or 789.
Count me as no fan if doors, they just make things tighter.
Hopefully we'll see curtains in lieu of doors. Doors can be a pain in the ass to open and close. At least with curtains, you just slide it accordingly. If you do a google search, you'll see some post-pandemic business class concepts that include curtains.
"(and please don’t “BuT tHoSe PlAnEs WiLl Be PhAsEd OuT oF iNtErNaTiOnAl FlYiNg By 2030” me)."
ROFLMAO... I so did not expect such a comment.
wake me up when they phase out their industry-trailing loyalty program, or at least their inferior, uncompetitive service standard lol
ily ben
Never cared for LATAM after they merged the LAN and TAM operations. Best thing that happened was they exited ONEWORLD...........I would rather fly any of the low cost operators in Latin America than that current shitshow called LATAM. Garbage.
Love the blog to death, Ben, but come on, you’re better than click/ragebait.
But who do you blame? The person posting the rage/clickbait or the people who respond to it?
I need to take accountability as someone that actively fans the flames
I am a massive troll!
Oh look someone who posted as me twice in repsonse to my original comment…wonder who that could be…was it Tim? Aero? Someone else?
Oh nevermind, that was me! I forgot that I posted three times. Wait, four times. No, five times now!
Forgot to take my meds, lol
"Julia"
You realize you just seem like the world's biggest loser spending your day in a comment section assuming other usernames to make yourself (tim Dunn) look crazy?
Get a life. Your current one in a basement at your mom's house is beyond tragic.
Tim, surely you have some modicum of self-respect? No? no surprise.
Actually Ben can verify how other people are posting under my name by chekcing the emails used. Some will have the same email that has been used for years on here, while others will have a newer email. But thats something you seem to know about, “Plane Jane”…
Why is “Julia” pretending to be me?
Definitely not me darlink, some of us had ‘domestic bliss’ tasks to perform during the false posts …. besides, I would much prefer to face those I ridicule. Only the spineless numpties hide behind appropriated login names …. right, Plain Jane? …. :-)
For Delta apologists
Teacher - Sir, your kid is performing poorly in the class. I see very good potential in him/her but there are few things (s)he needs to work on.
Parent - But, that other kid is also performing poorly. Why don't you complain about him/her, why only my kid.
You perfectly captured the past 25 years of human history.
To echo a line which has previously been posted …. I too love your editorial piece headline Ben. You have certainly ‘woken up the peasants’ and because I have dared to post this piece on a U.S. airline subject, the Plain Jane will have something to troll about now …. watch this space …. :-)
Your obsession with me is noted. Thank you. Who knew you'd raise me in a simple post where I have nothing to say.
Who's the troll again?
Loser.
The only good thing was that since there was no PE cabin, a GUC would book directly into D1 instead of PE. But oh well, it was good while it lasted.
To be honest, as an economy passenger, I quite like the 767s. Always pretty comfortable and spacious with the 2-3-2 layout. It also gives me fond memories of the good old days of flying before 9/11
Yeah fwiw the 767s are great economy planes. 2-3-2 and 2-2-2 in economy or premium economy.
If Ben didn't only fly business class, he would think more about how the majority of the people fly.
I agree. Ben should post an economy review for each time he posts a business review.
Delta's 767s have slimline economy seats that are about has hard as concrete. Our rear-ends were in so much pain the last time we flew on one to Europe that my fiancée and I changed our routing on the way home to avoid it.
Surely can't be worse than United/American's 777 and 787 aircraft?
Delta really needs an answer fast for their ancient 767-300ER problem and right now they don't seem to have one. In my opinion they only have two maybe three options. The first order the A330-800NEO, the second order the 787-8 or the third would be order a mixture of either A330-800NEO/787-8s along with some A321XLR and be done with it. Why is it taking so long for this airlines to come up with a concrete...
Delta really needs an answer fast for their ancient 767-300ER problem and right now they don't seem to have one. In my opinion they only have two maybe three options. The first order the A330-800NEO, the second order the 787-8 or the third would be order a mixture of either A330-800NEO/787-8s along with some A321XLR and be done with it. Why is it taking so long for this airlines to come up with a concrete plan that they can announce publicly for their 767-300ER fleet?
My god… I know there are options that does not make sense. These three options you gave are the worst of the worst lol
They're up-gauging their fleet.
B767-300ER goes up to the B767-400ER or A330-900
B767-400ER goes up to the A330-900 or A350-900
A330-900 goes to A350-900 (and possibly future A350-1000)
I forgot to add that the A330-200/A330-300 also work towards replacing the B767-300ER
all well stated.
and it is also worth noting that the most common station for the 767-300ER is JFK.
data shows that DL boards 20 more passengers on the average international flight from JFK than AA does from JFK or UA does from EWR.
Both AA and UA talk about not having the slots (or airport capacity) to do what they need in NYC - and yet, DL, with the most slots at flights...
all well stated.
and it is also worth noting that the most common station for the 767-300ER is JFK.
data shows that DL boards 20 more passengers on the average international flight from JFK than AA does from JFK or UA does from EWR.
Both AA and UA talk about not having the slots (or airport capacity) to do what they need in NYC - and yet, DL, with the most slots at flights in NYC, uses the largest average aircraft size on international flights while AA and UA are both talking about using A321XLRs from the NE to Europe while DL has committed to an all widebody international fleet.
DL has clearly run away from AA, B6 and UA in domestic share from NYC; as they all use narrowbodies, even new generation 321NEOs, it is hard to not see how DL's international share will continue to grow esp. from NYC.
Their 767-400s are 24-25 years old and should follow the 767-300s out the door in 2030. That only leave them with 13 or so A330-200s. While not nearly as old as the 76s they aren't exactly young either.
Delta has what 40 767-300ERs still in service they only have 2 maybe 3 A330-900NEOs left to be delivered and 4 or 5 A350-900s. Unless Delta intends to dramatically cut a lot of Transatlantic routes, they...
Their 767-400s are 24-25 years old and should follow the 767-300s out the door in 2030. That only leave them with 13 or so A330-200s. While not nearly as old as the 76s they aren't exactly young either.
Delta has what 40 767-300ERs still in service they only have 2 maybe 3 A330-900NEOs left to be delivered and 4 or 5 A350-900s. Unless Delta intends to dramatically cut a lot of Transatlantic routes, they don't have a publicly announced plan to replace their fleet of 41 767-300ERs followed by their 16 767-400s which will be 30 years old come 2030.
Even with 20 A350-1000s on order that still isn't enough to cover the retirement of every single 767 in Delta's fleet. Delta is going to need a widebody aircraft in the 220-240 seat range not every route currently on the 767-300 or even the 767-400 has the demand to warrant a 282 seat A330 which is what many of you want people to believe. Delta's current order of A330-900s has really allowed them to expand their international reach. Delta is operating more long haul international routes today than they didn't before covid thanks to A330-900s and A350-900 deliveries. Some routes have been upgauged but they've been in pure growth mode since covid. Now they are getting to the point where they'll need to replace a significant piece of their international fleet their entire 767 fleet. I believe they will either order the A330-800NEO or the 787-8 as their replacement for their entire 767 fleet.
Give this post an hour, and the comments would be flooding with the fluff, the fluff's BA apologist alter ego, a mad woman obsessed with the fluff, etc.
Happy commenting everyone.
Yes, I am indeed obsessed
Eskimo in drag or Plain Jane intoxicated?
See, all three of them are here.
My new alter egos
@Julia
You wish.
And in rolls Tim and his fake logins and usage of other usernames.
I wish it surprised anyone but, as usual, it just shows him for the troll and loser he is.
clearly, this isn't looking like a very busy news week so Ben had to throw a grenade out.
actually, ALL of the ex-Latam 359s will be converted to the 275 total seat/ 40 Delta One configuration.
and the first of the "original DL" 306 seat 359s is being converted to the 275 standard now.
and, no, the most uncompetitive business class product is UA's 757s which fly as far as continental Europe, something DL does...
clearly, this isn't looking like a very busy news week so Ben had to throw a grenade out.
actually, ALL of the ex-Latam 359s will be converted to the 275 total seat/ 40 Delta One configuration.
and the first of the "original DL" 306 seat 359s is being converted to the 275 standard now.
and, no, the most uncompetitive business class product is UA's 757s which fly as far as continental Europe, something DL does not do. UA's 757s do not even have direct aisle access; coach on the 757 means 1/3 of passengers have aisle access in coach while it is 57% on the 767.
and DL's 767-300ERs are being pulled from international service by 2028 and from all service by 2030, according to DL's most recent statements.
and DL IS retiring older widebodies; UA is not so far. all of the growth that the UA fankids think is coming will be heavily needed for replacements of UAs 767 and 777-200 fleets
a nice business class cabin doesn't change how much fuel any aircraft burns or the mechanical reliability or not of that model.
about half of DL's 763 fleet flies domestic flights and are competitive with UA's high density 777-200s which do not even
Deflect much. You deflected to UA in your reply to Jacob as well
It’s his middle name…
Ben said the DL 767s are the most uncompetitive international widebody. You cant just ignore one of the two adjectives to deflect.
You can argue the 757s are the most uncompetitive international biz class by a US airline (and are probably correct) but that wasn't Ben's claim. And you know it.
Being pedantic here, but shouldn't the headline say something like "retrofitted to new business class" instead of "phased out," which implies that the planes are permanently leaving the fleet?
Similarly, "There’s now a positive update, as it appears that all of the A350s with ex-LATAM interiors should be out of service by late October 2025..." also suggests these planes will not be flying again, when it's just the interiors being changed out.
“BuT tHoSe PlAnEs WiLl Be PhAsEd OuT oF iNtErNaTiOnAl FlYiNg By 2030”
You already know someone has probably pre-prepared a dissertation to make this exact point and more.
I know the answer to this. :D How long until he shows up?
He never disappoints. He’s like Candyman, except you don’t need to say his name.
no, the question is when Airbus will deliver enough 321XLRs to UA to remove the 757s from service and when UA will retire its domestic configured 777s which carry twice as many people with half the comfort per passenger.
Frontier has less pitch, so there.
"...(and please don’t “BuT tHoSe PlAnEs WiLl Be PhAsEd OuT oF iNtErNaTiOnAl FlYiNg By 2030” me)."
LOL! That was awesome.
you gotta love it when someone tries to be cute and gets the basic facts wrong
Yet here you are reinforcing how predictable you are, Tim. As are your usual troll bots you use.
Mason?
Aero?
Don't you have anything better to do?
@Plane Jane
I'm Tim Dunn yet I say Tim Dunn's pointless posts a fluff.
Your level of snowflakism quite threatens that of Aaron.
A woman thinking she's any better than a jobless man fluffing all day around, by coming back to all of his fluff.
Totally setting yourself apart from Tim Dunn.