For many years, United has differentiated itself from both Delta and American with its global route network. The airline simply operates on a different level when it comes to the scope of its international network, especially across the Pacific.
We know that Delta is trying to grow across the Pacific, as we’re seeing the airline pursuing a “once in a generation” growth opportunity in Los Angeles (LAX). The airline has just launched flights from there to Hong Kong (HKG), and Manila (MNL) flights are expected as of 2027 as well. Just how big are Delta’s aspirations across the Pacific, though? Well, bigger than we may have expected…
In this post:
Delta wants to become leading US carrier across Pacific
Leslie Josephs at CNBC had an interesting interview with Peter Carter, Delta’s new President (who recently replaced Glenn Hauenstein), at the current IATA AGM, in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil. One of the main topics involved Delta growing across the Pacific, where he shared the following aspirations:
“We want to become stronger, better, faster in the trans-Pacific, and we want to become the leading U.S. carrier” across the Pacific, Carter told CNBC in an interview here during the International Air Transport Association’s annual meeting. “Ultimately … the real goal is to become the leading global carrier, which is a pretty audacious goal.”
The U.S. air travel market — the world’s largest — is mature, meaning there’s little room for significant annual growth. “Really, when we think about the future, it’s all about international,” Delta’s Carter said.
The other noteworthy thing here is the comments from United CEO Scott Kirby, which can only be described as rather competitive, along with Carter acknowledging how United is increasingly becoming a competitor (Delta executives have historically taken the approach of basically not acknowledging United by name):
On the sidelines of the same conference, Kirby said he has “a lot of respect for Delta, and what they have done, and I take it as a huge compliment that Delta is beginning to acknowledge that they have an equal that they’re worried about and trying to compete with us.” When asked what he wants to beat Delta on, Kirby replied: “Everything.” Carter said in the interview that Delta can’t rest on its current success. “We always have to be hungry to win, and I say that because I know United is out there competing against us and replicating the playbook a little bit,” he said. “Bring ’em on.”
Will Delta more than double its transpacific capacity?
Admittedly airline executives make all kinds of questionable claims with words like “leading,” “premium,” etc., so perhaps things shouldn’t be read into too literally.
However, I think suggesting that Delta will become the leading carrier across the Pacific lays out some pretty clear aspirations… and that will require quite the ramp-up.
Doing some very rough math, it looks like Delta’s Pacific revenue last year was around $2.8 billion, while United’s Pacific revenue was around $6.9 billion. So if Delta actually wants to surpass United in terms of size, it’ll need to grow its Pacific revenue by roughly 150%, and that represents a lot of new service. Now, a few points:
- I’m sure someone will be along shortly to point out that Delta has better margins across the Pacific than United; that’s true, because the carrier’s network is so much smaller, and United’s Pacific strategy is much more about building a portfolio of routes that make the airline appealing overall, rather than each and every route being mega profitable
- Delta acknowledges that some of its “leading” position across the Pacific will come from its joint venture with Korean Air, and admittedly that’s a bit larger of a transpacific joint venture than United has, with All Nippon Airways
- It’s interesting to see Kirby and Carter be so direct with their competitor commentary, with Kirby saying he wants to be better than Delta at “everything,” and Carter saying “bring ’em on”
- United has the major structural advantage of having a mega hub in San Francisco (SFO), the most lucrative West Coast market for Asia, where the airline has a ton of connectivity, and I don’t think Delta can fully replicate that success in Los Angeles, and splitting things with Seattle (SEA) doesn’t help either
Anyway, it’ll be fascinating to see what comes next. Beyond the new Hong Kong route that was just added and the Manila route that has theoretically been announced, what more could we really see? We have reason to believe that Delta’s LAX strategy includes adding flights to Seoul Incheon (ICN), flying year-round to Auckland (AKL), and possibly upping Shanghai (PVG) flights to daily. We also know that Delta is at least considering flights to Singapore (SIN).
However, that still leaves Delta a long way from matching United’s Pacific network. So either Delta has a lot more growth planned across the Pacific, it’s relying a lot more on Korean Air to make it “leading” than it’s suggesting, or this is just a lot of talk. Also, are you really a global airline if you don’t fly to Greenland or Mongolia? 😉
Bottom line
We’ve known that Delta wants to grow across the Pacific, especially with the airline seeing a lot of potential at LAX. However, the extent to which the airline plans to grow is quite something, as it claims it wants to be the “leading” airline across the Pacific, beating out United. United currently has around 2.5x the Pacific revenue that Delta has, so Delta has quite a bit of catching up to do.
It remains to be seen how literally means that it wants to lead across the Pacific, and to what extent it’s using Korean Air as a crutch to make that claim.
The trash talking associated with this is quite something as well, with United CEO Scott Kirby saying he wants to beat Delta at “everything,” and Delta President Peter Carter telling United to “bring ’em on.”
What do you make of Delta’s goals across the Pacific?
If you aint flying big to Australia and NZ you can't make the claim thay you're dominant in the Pacific!
Flights to Korea and Japan and China and so on don't represent any more than a quarter of the Pacific.
According to LinkedIn before retiring Tim Dunn was an Information Technologies Analyst at Delta Air Lines for more than 30 years.
to no surprise, a whole lot of UA fans are in meltdown mode as a result of a series of exec comments from normally competitively quiet DL.
While UA has trash talked every other airline except DL for years, DL has apparently decided that it not only intends to focus on the single advantage that UA has - its TPAC size and grow in the region where DL via the NW merger was once the...
to no surprise, a whole lot of UA fans are in meltdown mode as a result of a series of exec comments from normally competitively quiet DL.
While UA has trash talked every other airline except DL for years, DL has apparently decided that it not only intends to focus on the single advantage that UA has - its TPAC size and grow in the region where DL via the NW merger was once the largest airline.
DL now believes there are multiple factors that make this contest in DL's favor including DL's financial strength, greater US coverage to Asia, and fleet.
Few would have expected DL to say it expects to be at parity with UA even though it was clear that DL is going to re-add "dots and lines" to its Asian route system at a pretty fast clip in the next few years.
whether people like or dislike ICN and KE, it is simply a superior connecting hub to deeper in Asia than Tokyo NRT. as a result of the KE/OZ merger which will be concluding in the next year or so, DL and KE have a whole lot of opportunity to redeploy capacity not just to/from ICN to allow DL to start new ICN routes but also to add new DL nonstops deeper into Asia.
this should be a fun couple of years - for everyone except the UA fans.
Is it true you didn’t know the difference between book value and market value of equity? Really sloppy from a financial writer if so.
not sure where you ever came up with that idea but it certainly doesn't change the reality that DL is going to aggressively grow to Asia and they are now making some pretty bold claims about taking on UA.
It isn't a surprise that the personal attacks have intensified on me even as DL has been more and more clear about its growth plans on the west coast and across the Pacific. Some are...
not sure where you ever came up with that idea but it certainly doesn't change the reality that DL is going to aggressively grow to Asia and they are now making some pretty bold claims about taking on UA.
It isn't a surprise that the personal attacks have intensified on me even as DL has been more and more clear about its growth plans on the west coast and across the Pacific. Some are clearly terribly wounded to think that their "fortress" is under attack even though they have been happy to see "their company" launch wave after wave of virulent comments about other airlines for years running.
sEeKiNg ALpHa...
feel free to reply to the article there
Tim, have you actually flown through ICN and NRT? Having done both fairly recently I can’t imagine how you could claim ICN is the superior hub. One of the most disorganized security situations I’ve ever seen, with multiple lines merging in a massive, horribly understaffed free-for-all. NRT and HND, by contrast, have been quiet, efficient, and thoughtfully designed, as I’d expect. They also offer mostly complete route networks, whereas to get to PUS or CJU...
Tim, have you actually flown through ICN and NRT? Having done both fairly recently I can’t imagine how you could claim ICN is the superior hub. One of the most disorganized security situations I’ve ever seen, with multiple lines merging in a massive, horribly understaffed free-for-all. NRT and HND, by contrast, have been quiet, efficient, and thoughtfully designed, as I’d expect. They also offer mostly complete route networks, whereas to get to PUS or CJU from ICN, you need to take a train to GMP. My wife remarked that even flying through DEL was a superior experience to ICN. Korean Air’s premium product is remarkable, as are its lounges, but not exactly far ahead of JAL and ANA. ICN is a differentiator, but not in a good way.
The problem with Delta’s strategy is that connecting through Seoul is horrible compared to connecting through Tokyo like it used to. I have found the connections to be inconvenient, requiring long layovers often. If you buy a ticket in business or premium economy that status doesn’t continue on the connecting flight in Korean. The one difference is that Korean treats me better as a Diamond than Delta does. But the bottom line is I hate...
The problem with Delta’s strategy is that connecting through Seoul is horrible compared to connecting through Tokyo like it used to. I have found the connections to be inconvenient, requiring long layovers often. If you buy a ticket in business or premium economy that status doesn’t continue on the connecting flight in Korean. The one difference is that Korean treats me better as a Diamond than Delta does. But the bottom line is I hate traveling to Asia on Delta and am actively looking at alternatives, including finding ways to use Singapore Airlines.
I am aware of the fact that departure and destination points are important factors when choosing an airline to travel on, however, in my opinion, if SQ works for you then you are unlikely to be disappointed.
Walter Mitty Dunn, in response to a 1990 comment, posts “You are one of the few sane people that I get to "tangle with”. Is Dunn pretending to be a psychiatrist now?
He pretends to be a pilot, an analyst, he was the Mayor of Lilburn and is a Shepherd of a local ‘flock’, but pretending to be a psychiatrist is pushing your credibility Walter …. Yes?
Yet, the one thing which he will...
Walter Mitty Dunn, in response to a 1990 comment, posts “You are one of the few sane people that I get to "tangle with”. Is Dunn pretending to be a psychiatrist now?
He pretends to be a pilot, an analyst, he was the Mayor of Lilburn and is a Shepherd of a local ‘flock’, but pretending to be a psychiatrist is pushing your credibility Walter …. Yes?
Yet, the one thing which he will not deny is that he was fired by Delta. Do you class me as being insane Walter, just because I ask for the truth about the real Tim Dunn?
Carter vs. Kirby cage match! Bring 'em on!
More competition is good for consumers, right?
Call me when they start LAX to Vietnam, that would be awesome to see
SFO-SGN on Vietnam Airlines is probably better… (SkyTeam still.)
You're going to be waiting for a very long time.
SFO-SGN was literally the (not "a," but THE) lowest yielding longhaul departure from the continental US, for the full year ending 2025, per cirum.
Average yield was less than 0.06. And that's on a carrier with a far lower cost structure than Delta or United, and is government-backed.
UA offers own-metal service through Hong Kong, but it's Very VERY unlikely that either US carrier is...
You're going to be waiting for a very long time.
SFO-SGN was literally the (not "a," but THE) lowest yielding longhaul departure from the continental US, for the full year ending 2025, per cirum.
Average yield was less than 0.06. And that's on a carrier with a far lower cost structure than Delta or United, and is government-backed.
UA offers own-metal service through Hong Kong, but it's Very VERY unlikely that either US carrier is going to be offering a nonstop to Vietnam, any time soon. The fares are atrocious.
it's also notable that UA started SGN to help boost traffic on its 4X daily HKG flights, two each from LAX and SFO with the LAX couple being by far the weakest.
The yield on UA's SGN service isn't any better than VN's and probably worse.
and it is precisely the excess capacity that UA has in the TPAC market that keeps its profit per seat mile lower than DL's.
Given that DL earns...
it's also notable that UA started SGN to help boost traffic on its 4X daily HKG flights, two each from LAX and SFO with the LAX couple being by far the weakest.
The yield on UA's SGN service isn't any better than VN's and probably worse.
and it is precisely the excess capacity that UA has in the TPAC market that keeps its profit per seat mile lower than DL's.
Given that DL earns a substantially larger profit over the Atlantic while flying about the same amount of widebody capacity - UA is larger because of its narrowbody operations on old 757s and domestic configured 737s - proving that size is actually what is UA's liability.
The trend is similar to Latin America where UA doesn't make money and hasn't for several years.
KE will serve alot of secondary Asian cities including SGN and they will do so with a lower cost structure than DL and the ability to connect traffic from a larger TPAC system than any other US airline JV.
DL will serve the largest and richest markets up and down the Pacific rim nonstop from the US - which is a huge accomplishment since the TPAC system that DL acquired from NW and largely dismantled outside of Tokyo, Seoul and PVG was NRT based. Many cities including in SE Asia will be served from both gateways.
It is also worth noting that there remains a huge US carrier hole on the east coast to E. Asia since UA pulled down all but Tokyo from its eastern US hubs. They added EWR-ICN due to startup competition - but that only supports DL/KE's argument that there is ample competition in the NYC-ICN market.
And DL's 350s including the 35K have the ability to fly to all of E. Asia from NYC.
Don't be surprised to see DL build out JFK to Asia; DL's first target for growth is LAX but they will be shifting to other hubs including NYC and ATL in the not-too-distant future.
This will be fun to watch and result a lot of low fares for consumers. DL's options to make this happen are:
1. Lose money trying to duke it out in SEA against AS, which they've already been doing for 10 years. Now AS has 787s in addition to its longstanding gate space and domestic feed advantages over DL.
2. Lose money building up LAX in a two-front war against Asian carriers with...
This will be fun to watch and result a lot of low fares for consumers. DL's options to make this happen are:
1. Lose money trying to duke it out in SEA against AS, which they've already been doing for 10 years. Now AS has 787s in addition to its longstanding gate space and domestic feed advantages over DL.
2. Lose money building up LAX in a two-front war against Asian carriers with superior product and lower cost structures on one side, and other US carriers making it hard to generate sufficient domestic feed on the other side. UA's recent TPAC expansion out of LAX (at least the new routes that lasted, HKG/PEK) is essentially little more than filling the void left by AA's retreat.
3. Lose money using the old Northwest playbook of dumping low fares to try to fill additional ICN flights out of DTW, MSP, and ATL because few O&D passengers want to go there, while high dollar traffic overflies these hubs on UA or Asian carriers' nonstops to Chicago/NYC/DC, etc. Unless Russian airspace miraculously opens up, they're pretty much limited to trying to stuff additional ICN frequencies with double-connecting pax.
4. Lose money doing something stupid not on anyone's bingo card like trying to recreate the PDX hub from the 90s or add capacity into TPE expanding codesharing with CI, which would cannibalize some Korean JV traffic flows while competing against BR and JX.
5. Force more traffic through ICN and make Korean Air the largest TPAC airline (KE is already #2 behind United by ASMs). We know which of the two airlines does the heavy lifting network-wise in the JV and can generate revenue premiums from the ICN point of sale.
and, of course, the most likely option is for DL to add flights to E. Asia from LAX as well as its hubs in the eastern US - including JFK and BOS which have no current DL metal service to Asia, for the DL/KE JV to benefit from the reallocation of capacity that has been flown by OZ to new markets as DL replaces some OZ flights (such as to LAX and JFK) and for...
and, of course, the most likely option is for DL to add flights to E. Asia from LAX as well as its hubs in the eastern US - including JFK and BOS which have no current DL metal service to Asia, for the DL/KE JV to benefit from the reallocation of capacity that has been flown by OZ to new markets as DL replaces some OZ flights (such as to LAX and JFK) and for DL to benefit from its larger and more capable fleet of A350s inlcuding the A350-1000s which not only can reach deeper into Asia with more seats than any UA aircraft but also carry far more cargo out w/ far better economics.
It will be tough for a lot of people over the next few years as DL's TPAC strategy unfolds.
It is most notable that they are releasing these claims just weeks before the summer 2027 TPAC announcements will be made.
Despite UA's statements otherwise, there really isn't much UA can do esp. given that DL's financial advantage will certainly grow in 2026 and likely into 2027 compared to 2025
DL doesn't have any financial advantage. You're full of fluff again Tim.
All I'm seeing is DL loosing money and UA in the best position to conquer TPAC markets.
well, yes, DL is the financially strongest US legacy airline with higher profits and a stronger balance sheet than UA
and this year and probably into 2027, DL will have a considerable fuel cost advantage.
and DL has a track record of hub development that has built on its profits.
Yes, DL has a financial advantage.
Whether you or anyone sees it or agrees that reality is immaterial.
1990
you do realize that DL's...
well, yes, DL is the financially strongest US legacy airline with higher profits and a stronger balance sheet than UA
and this year and probably into 2027, DL will have a considerable fuel cost advantage.
and DL has a track record of hub development that has built on its profits.
Yes, DL has a financial advantage.
Whether you or anyone sees it or agrees that reality is immaterial.
1990
you do realize that DL's international system is far more profitable than UA's even though UA's international system is larger?
DL is going to grow its Asia/Pacific network because it sees profit opportunities in part because DL has advantages which it can build on and in part because Asia continues to be a faster growing market than other parts of the world
In 2025:
- McDonalds made more profit than Five Guys, In-n-Out, and Whataburger
- Hyundai made more profit than BMW, and Hyundai made more profit than Subaru, Porsche, and Ferrari combined
- The most profitable sports franchises for the four most popular US Sports were the Dallas Cowboys (missed the playoffs), Golden State Warriors (eliminated from playoffs in play-in series), Edmonton Oilers (lost in first round of playoffs), and the NY Yankees (lost first series...
In 2025:
- McDonalds made more profit than Five Guys, In-n-Out, and Whataburger
- Hyundai made more profit than BMW, and Hyundai made more profit than Subaru, Porsche, and Ferrari combined
- The most profitable sports franchises for the four most popular US Sports were the Dallas Cowboys (missed the playoffs), Golden State Warriors (eliminated from playoffs in play-in series), Edmonton Oilers (lost in first round of playoffs), and the NY Yankees (lost first series in playoffs).
"More Profit" does not automatically equate with providing a quality product to customers. It has everything to do with providing a good return to investors.
nowhere did I equate profit with quality.
but DL did end 2025 with the best metrics of the big 3 in the DOT's air travel consumer report metrics.
and several other consumer metrics of quality
and DL was also voted as one of the best places to work for by its employees who enjoyed over $1 billion of its employees in profit sharing even though most DL employees do not own DAL stock.
DL...
nowhere did I equate profit with quality.
but DL did end 2025 with the best metrics of the big 3 in the DOT's air travel consumer report metrics.
and several other consumer metrics of quality
and DL was also voted as one of the best places to work for by its employees who enjoyed over $1 billion of its employees in profit sharing even though most DL employees do not own DAL stock.
DL is just a better run business and airline than AA or UA - and, it is indeed the financail metrics that will give DL the ability to do things over the Pacific that other airlines cannot.
but baby pilot Paul, perhaps you can tell us what other airlines have managed to build more hubs post deregulation than DL.
DL has a pretty good track record of buiding its network organically and that is what they will use to succeed in their TPAC expansion.
Where did you get those Delta track records?
Flightaware?
Yep - Delta did great last year! If only I could go on line, today, and book a flight on Delta in 2025. But I can only find flights for 2026. And Delta's 2026 stats say Delta isn't doing as well, as they have fallen significantly behind several airlines in what matters to me, when I'm a passenger: being on-time, not cancelling flights, and not generating complaints.
But, again, you're right:
- If I want...
Yep - Delta did great last year! If only I could go on line, today, and book a flight on Delta in 2025. But I can only find flights for 2026. And Delta's 2026 stats say Delta isn't doing as well, as they have fallen significantly behind several airlines in what matters to me, when I'm a passenger: being on-time, not cancelling flights, and not generating complaints.
But, again, you're right:
- If I want to invest in an airline and buy their stock, Delta appears to be a smart choice.
- If I want to work at an airline, Delta is a great place to apply.
Neither of those mean Delta provides a better passenger experience.
TD: "nowhere did I equate profit with quality."
NOW we're getting somewhere! I'm glad you agree! Therefore, perhaps you can stop harping about Delta's profits as if it DOES mean they provide a better service than anyone else.
TD: "it is indeed the financail [SIC] metrics that will give DL the ability to do things over the Pacific that other airlines cannot"
McDonald's, with bigger profits, isn't providing a better burger than the competition. Hyundai, with bigger profits, isn't making a better car. The Dallas Cowboys, with the biggest profits, isn't fielding the best team. You can claim Delta will use it's profits to "do things over the Pacific that other airlines cannot." (<<< your words) That's just being wishful on your part, not insightful. United has the financial strength to defend the Pacific (with established, money-making routes instead of having to lose money trying to build them), whether you want to admit that or not.
TD: "perhaps you can tell us what other airlines have managed to build more hubs post deregulation than DL."
Oh - I see. At first I though you believed "profits" meant one airline is better for consumers than another. Now, it's not even the "number of hubs" one airline has (because American, with ten, has more than Delta, with nine). It's got to be the number of RECENT hubs that makes an airline better for the consumer than another.
And, I know, you are trying to imply that Delta has shown it can build hubs, so LAX is next. Well - LAX is already considered one of Delta's hubs, so they wouldn't be building a "new" one, just expanding on an existing hub. That's gate constrained. And has the highest competition in the country. And already has airlines building capacity (American) with others sitting on plans to expand (Southwest with Terminal zero, and United with Terminal nine). And a 5th (Alaska) that's entrenching itself up and down the coast, and won't just sit idly by. And while Delta is flying LOTS of NB 757s, 320s, and 717s well over 25 years old that will need to be replaced which reduces Delta's ability to expand with their pending orders...
(Hint: here's how you do this part... Source for old Delta's planes: fleet details on planespotters.net, found here: https://www.planespotters.net/airline/Delta-Air-Lines)
TD: "that is what they will use to succeed in their TPAC expansion."
Aha! Moved the goal posts a little! You've gone from "taking over from United" and "dominating the Pacific", to simply "succeeding." Better to set the bar a little lower, or make the final goal more vague, so you can say you were right.
Anyhow - time will tell.
Finally, you set the baseline on hubs at "post deregulation". Do we get to count the hubs Delta closed? It's four, including CVG, DFW, MEM, and NRT if you don't recall.
I’m starting to think… Delta might… lose money on this…
When did these airline articles become so partisan. Cranky does a much better job using facts and data, instead of it just being a vibes based article designed to ragebait.
Based on TPAC ASMs, Delta is weaker than United across the Pacific, it's indisputable, but that being said, DL/KE do have a strong JV. It may not be sexy flying, but it is efficient and profitable. The ICN hub is very efficient, KE is upgrading...
When did these airline articles become so partisan. Cranky does a much better job using facts and data, instead of it just being a vibes based article designed to ragebait.
Based on TPAC ASMs, Delta is weaker than United across the Pacific, it's indisputable, but that being said, DL/KE do have a strong JV. It may not be sexy flying, but it is efficient and profitable. The ICN hub is very efficient, KE is upgrading their product significantly.
The major vulnerability for DL, beyond the tired old DL vs AS conversation at SEA, is that the Seattle metro is suffering immensely, crashing home prices, massive tech layoffs, stagnating population growth (most of it is coming from foreign residents). SEA was in hyper-growth mode for the past few decades, but is taking a huge beating right now. The two local tech giants Amazon and Microsoft are not well-positioned for the current AI wave, I'm not sure SEA can sustain much more flying.
"instead of it just being a vibes based article designed to ragebait"
You've lost sight of what the intent of these articles are.
Rage-bait = views/clicks. If your revenue model is based on ad views and/or clicks, why would you NOT want to do it this way?
“No politics… we just want the jobs the comet will bring…” (Don’t Look Up, 2020).
Cranky is a former airline employee who knows how to use data.
He is unique in the airline blog space.
That doesn't mean that Ben, Gary, and Matthew and others don't serve very useful information; I follow the airline industry pretty closely and consistently find out things from Ben.
as for the Pacific, there is no doubt that DL is smaller than UA TPAC - infact, the ratio is approx that DL is twice the...
Cranky is a former airline employee who knows how to use data.
He is unique in the airline blog space.
That doesn't mean that Ben, Gary, and Matthew and others don't serve very useful information; I follow the airline industry pretty closely and consistently find out things from Ben.
as for the Pacific, there is no doubt that DL is smaller than UA TPAC - infact, the ratio is approx that DL is twice the size of AA and UA is twice the size of DL.
DL is not content to keep that relationship - which only developed as DL pulled down the NRT hub - which was precipitated by the opening of HND.
Not also discussed is that DL has had to sit on the sidelines of growing its TPAC network while KE has worked through a very long merger approval process to acquire OZ.
OZ will cease to exist later this year and into 2027 which means that KE will spend a whole lot of time reworking the combined KE/OZ network.
Part of DL's pilot contract requires DL to increase the amount of DL flying on a global basis in order for KE to add the capacity from OZ to the DL-KE JV.
It isn't a surprise that this huge growth surge for DL across the Pacific comes as KE restructures its combined OZ network which will open some flights for DL to operate on DL metal such as LAX and JFK and maybe BOS.
DL and/or KE will start new flights to new US destinations including those that do not have any service to E. Asia
and DL's own metal flights to Asia - S. Asia, the Middle East and E. Asia - will be part of the flights added to the capacity count that DL has to maintain.
And DL's greatest advantage is that it is already the largest US airline to E. Asia outside of CA; few appreciate how much DL has because of how concentrated UA's TPAC network is at SFO.
The A350 is a much better plane for flying deep in the US to deep into Asia and from CA to the "ends" of the Pacific Rim.
as for SEA, just remember that AS is staking its international growth in a hub where you rightfully note that the business climate is clearly deteriorating. When Starbucks starts growing in Nashville, your hometown companies are not as loyal as you hoped.
AS has much more to lose with a sluggish local SEA economy and hyper competitive airport than DL does.
“I follow the airline industry pretty closely…” reminds me of "You know, I'm something of a scientist myself." —Norman Osborn (played by Willem Dafoe) in the 2002 Spider-Man film.
I know some may not agree with me but I just do not see why people throw in profitability as a factor for liking an airline unless they are investors/shareholders. As a customer, I would be thrilled if my favorite airline or airline alliance flies to more destinations and with more frequency especially on their own metal. How would airline profits sway me one way or the other from a passenger perspective? As a flyer,...
I know some may not agree with me but I just do not see why people throw in profitability as a factor for liking an airline unless they are investors/shareholders. As a customer, I would be thrilled if my favorite airline or airline alliance flies to more destinations and with more frequency especially on their own metal. How would airline profits sway me one way or the other from a passenger perspective? As a flyer, I would care more about the passenger experience. Also, DL may make more profit than UA at the moment but UA flies to more destinations than DL (373 destinations worldwide with UA, 353 destinations worldwide on AA and and 303 destinations worldwide on DL since the summer 2025 schedule. Also, UA is not that far behind in terms of overall profits compared to Delta. Generally speaking, it seems that UA’s cabin is better than DL’s. Also, with all that money DL makes I wonder how much is really given back to elevate the passenger experience when compared to its foreign competitors. I mean would I be more happy flying CX in long haul first class or with Delta wait DL does not have international first class and yes neither does UA, so no matter how you look at it DL and UA pales in comparison especially with the Asian carriers.
Well, for some, like Tim, it’s not so much that Delta wins, as United loses…
(For real, though, as a frequent flyer, I want reliability, good value, great service, and usually healthy competition with robust guardrails produces that…)
but, I’m sure Tim will re-educate us shortly.
nowhere have i said that UA has to lose.
I know you love to stir the pot but please at least quote what I said
You are one of the few sane people that I get to "tangle with"
I have repeatedly said that DL will eliminate the advantage that UA has... it is as much a shock to me as it is to the UA fan base that DL now says it is ready...
nowhere have i said that UA has to lose.
I know you love to stir the pot but please at least quote what I said
You are one of the few sane people that I get to "tangle with"
I have repeatedly said that DL will eliminate the advantage that UA has... it is as much a shock to me as it is to the UA fan base that DL now says it is ready to surpass UA.
yeah, all that those things you want are what customers should want.
DL also just happens to have a better track record of doing that stuff better than the competition and making more money in the process.
AA has more of a trans Pacific network than Delta. They'll have to surpass last-place AA before they think about United. Delta is no longer premium and doing anything to come up with a new strategy.
Maybe restarting DTW-NGO is a good start for business customers. From NGO, DL used to fly to MNL but it could fly to CAN, DLC, TPE, TSN, USN, etc.
That’s pointless since Korean does all the connecting traffic via Seoul.
That’s true except for the Nagoya region (automobile hub). DTW-NGO was valuable. One-stop connection to many cities that have tier 1 and 2 auto suppliers and OEMs. ICN was backtracking, and HND domestic to international terminal connection is done by bus, and it is annoying. DTW connection was much easier.
https://x.com/xJonNYC/status/1890085727154892849?s=20
UA is part of the largest JV across the Pacific (and Atlantic), not DL.
In fact One World has the largest trans Atlantic JV followed by SkyTeam
"In fact One World has the largest trans Atlantic JV followed by SkyTeam"
No idea where you got that from, but it's not true by any measurement.
The SkyTeam's j/v is larger than OneWorld's in terms of number of TATL nonstops served, number of passengers carried, amount of available seat-kilometers, and percentage of market share.
There's not a single category in which OneWorld is larger.
Glenn Hauenstein is scheduled to be a guest on this week's "Airlines Confidential" podcast. That should be interesting to say the least.
And ‘he’s been CEO of how many’… oh, wait.
If I remember correctly, Hauenstein was Delta's president, not its CEO.
Yeah, yeah, I recall… just following-up on your ‘bit’… interestingly, Isom is CEO and President at AAL. I guess he doesn’t like sharing roles. (Mine! They’re all MINE!!)
Reading the comments is just a reflection of how society, decorum and the truth have gone to the toilet. What a time to be alive.
Could you be a little more specific with your criticisms…
in the competitive hot air dept., we can certainly put Scott Kirby at the top of the list.
Just since the first of the year, we have heard him say that UA would push AA's ORD hub out of Chicago.
Then he said that UA would buy AA.
Now, he says that UA won't participate in consolidation - which is what most of us expected from the big 3 anyway.
He does...
in the competitive hot air dept., we can certainly put Scott Kirby at the top of the list.
Just since the first of the year, we have heard him say that UA would push AA's ORD hub out of Chicago.
Then he said that UA would buy AA.
Now, he says that UA won't participate in consolidation - which is what most of us expected from the big 3 anyway.
He does say he will pick up the scraps of any carriers if they become available.
The feds are saying they will only allow NK's LGA slots to go to LCCs or ULCCs - so is it possible that UA's plans to acquire B6 JFK slots is a viable plan even if part of their joint marketing agreement?
Is it possible that, if B6 fails, none of the big 3 grow in NYC through asset acquisitions at all?
Is it also possible that a fed prohibition on big 3 growth in NYC will open the door for a WN acquisition of B6?
as for DL and the Pacific, the participation of KE can't be underestimated. As I have noted, Tokyo is not a growth market to the US - HND acess is tightly limited and local Tokyo demand goes to HND, making NRT not viable for long haul international growth.
ICN has enormous growth potential and the KE/OZ merger will create the opportunity to remove some duplicated capacity while redeploying other capacity. Some of that will be for DL serivce from LAX/JFK and possibly BOS to ICN.
in addition, DL/KE will be the only TPAC JV that will be able to add service from new non-hub cities to E. Asia for the first time.
There is enormous growth potential not just for DL but for the DL/KE JV
To me your missives read less like an objective industry analysis and more like the views of a fairly knowledgeable aviation enthusiast. Maybe even an industry observer who is particularly optimistic about Delta’s trans-Pacific prospects and their ambitions to take chunks out of the other airlines.
Is that why Delta fired you Wayne?
Tim, no one cares. Also “as I have noted…” - you constantly note inaccuracies in many of your posts. You love to post false claims with no evidence or data. So why should we believe you this time if you note something? lol
feel free to list those, Andy.
YOU are the one that argues that there is no such thing as profit per ASM but yet think that PRASM, TRASM and CASM are real things.
Seriously, let's discuss this so called data that you think I get wrong.
What you WANT the industry to be vs. what it actually IS and will be is the real issue.
In this case, DL believes it has a decent...
feel free to list those, Andy.
YOU are the one that argues that there is no such thing as profit per ASM but yet think that PRASM, TRASM and CASM are real things.
Seriously, let's discuss this so called data that you think I get wrong.
What you WANT the industry to be vs. what it actually IS and will be is the real issue.
In this case, DL believes it has a decent chance of being a similarly sized competitor to UA across the Pacific.
I have never made that claim.
Try to shoot me because you don't like what DL says is the epitome of shooting at the wrong target
Would be nice if the Pacific growth was on KE or any JV airline.
That way, they wouldn't cancel as many flights as DL currently does - and maybe they'd be more on time too.
Touché Paul.
Is that why you are a pilot and Dunn was fired by Delta?
@Tim, so you’re saying if you want to fly to Asia from the US, you’re most likely going to have to connect via ICN. And outside DTW, LAX, SEA, ATL and SLC that will force a double connect.
Sorry, the AMS strategy sucks. No thank you.
nope, DTWNYC, I didn't say that at all.
It is no surprise that you have to manipulate what I said because you don't like what I actually said.
and baby pilot Paul,
We are still trying to have you explain how DL falling 2 ranking positions below UA - at best - for a couple months - is worse than UA's baggage handling which has been 4-6 positions below DL for years.
and,...
nope, DTWNYC, I didn't say that at all.
It is no surprise that you have to manipulate what I said because you don't like what I actually said.
and baby pilot Paul,
We are still trying to have you explain how DL falling 2 ranking positions below UA - at best - for a couple months - is worse than UA's baggage handling which has been 4-6 positions below DL for years.
and, if you follow updated operating data, DL has already returned to running a more reliable operation than any of the other big 4.
WN is cancelling fewer flights (lower percentage) but has a lower on-time.
DL once again is leading the big 4 in overall operational performance.
Once again when Delta Dunn is shot down in flames, he reignites another fire elsewhere to take the heat off himself here.
Is that why Delta extinguished your contract Wayne?
@Tim,
Sorry, I guess I misunderstood this entire point
“ ICN has enormous growth potential and the KE/OZ merger will create the opportunity to remove some duplicated capacity while redeploying other capacity. Some of that will be for DL serivce from LAX/JFK and possibly BOS to ICN.
in addition, DL/KE will be the only TPAC JV that will be able to add service from new non-hub cities to E. Asia for the first...
@Tim,
Sorry, I guess I misunderstood this entire point
“ ICN has enormous growth potential and the KE/OZ merger will create the opportunity to remove some duplicated capacity while redeploying other capacity. Some of that will be for DL serivce from LAX/JFK and possibly BOS to ICN.
in addition, DL/KE will be the only TPAC JV that will be able to add service from new non-hub cities to E. Asia for the first time.”
Sure sounds like your talking about routing through Seoul.
@ Tim Dunn -- We're waiting to learn which EWR-LAX frequencies UA operates with 737-900ERs, please!! These are the important details!
Ben — a bit of a tangent, but why doesn’t Delta (or UA or AA) build up South American capacity at LAX? I understand the geography is a bit better from the eastern US, but it seems like there should be plenty of traffic from the LA metro area to support flights to São Paulo, Buenos Aires, Santiago and/or Rio de Janeiro.
I keep thinking this too. AA briefly ran a LAX-EZE service pre Covid, LATAM Argentina collapse & Delta stake in LATAM. I keep thinking there'd be decent demand for at least AA or UA but presumably premium yields are poor vs South Pacific or Atlantic (like other Deep South American routes). And UA/AA prob think they can service both coasts better via DFW and IAH. Even Latam only runs 788s to LAX. I wish AA would run a service out of LAX though.
It is clear to me that Delta Dunn is well ad truly DONE.
I believe that what you were trying to say Wayne is that Delta Airlines is positioning itself to become the dominant U.S. carrier across the Pacific, challenging UA. You claim that Delta’s earlier Asia strategy via Tokyo Narita has failed. Were you working from Delta at that time, I understand so?
You go on to say that the airline is now rebuilding...
It is clear to me that Delta Dunn is well ad truly DONE.
I believe that what you were trying to say Wayne is that Delta Airlines is positioning itself to become the dominant U.S. carrier across the Pacific, challenging UA. You claim that Delta’s earlier Asia strategy via Tokyo Narita has failed. Were you working from Delta at that time, I understand so?
You go on to say that the airline is now rebuilding with a stronger approach. Could that be because they now have more informed and less blinkered analysts on board?
The key advantages you stress include higher revenues and margins. Stronger corporate and eastern U.S. traffic. Significant fuel-cost savings from its refinery and a modern long-haul fleet centered on the Airbus A350.
Delta’s planned delivery of 20 larger A350-1000s, combined with its partnership with KE, you predict will drive substantial growth in Asia-Pacific markets. You also predict an aggressive expansion through the decade and believes Delta could reclaim leadership across the Pacific while potentially establishing a stronger Texas hub.
In summary Wayne, lots of words and predictions in your original screed to say very little. Is that why Delta sacked you?
and yet you can't explain how i managed to become DL's #1 internet fan booster if I was sacked.
but then Max hasn't been able to explain it in years of making the assertion - probably because it isn't remotely accurate but that hasn't stop any of the people that lodge personal assertions
Wayne, has it never occurred to you that you may well possess a wealth of valuable aviation knowledge, but you do not have any idea how to communicate that information to any readers.
Is that why Delta fired you?
"and yet you can't explain how i managed to become DL's #1 internet fan booster if I was sacked."
sTD, no one has ever accused you of being sane or smart in your life. Anyone this attached to a public company has mental issues to start with. One sacked by them with your incessant need to feel needed/wanted in the world? That would actually sync up really well with your clear autistic tendencies and a...
"and yet you can't explain how i managed to become DL's #1 internet fan booster if I was sacked."
sTD, no one has ever accused you of being sane or smart in your life. Anyone this attached to a public company has mental issues to start with. One sacked by them with your incessant need to feel needed/wanted in the world? That would actually sync up really well with your clear autistic tendencies and a deep need to feel valued by the company that fired you.
"but then Max hasn't been able to explain it in years of making the assertion"
and yet you've never denied it either... Tell us your story then. Have you worked for Delta? Do you work for them now? I trust my sources. but tell us your side, timmy.
why? Because you have a documented internet history under about 3 names I know of as did your Delta coworkers. ;) You were banned from multiple websites at times but one, in particular, as you kept trying to rejoin under different screennames but were banned under every possible way.
But as ever, there's a very easy way to prove what you say. You've claimed to have met Gary Leff in Person before. send a real photo of your ID to him with your name and a link to what you do. I don't care what you do but you can have someone like Gary prove that you aren't who your delta coworkers all said you were. ;) Hell, Ben & Gary can see our IP addresses and emails anyway.
YOU are the one that made the accusation and yet you can't logically why anyone would do what you detest - support a competitor by knowing more than you do about the industry.
again, I have been saying for years that DL would make a big move to Asia. I have said that I expected they would add the primary cities and grow including with their KE JV.
DL, not me, said they are...
YOU are the one that made the accusation and yet you can't logically why anyone would do what you detest - support a competitor by knowing more than you do about the industry.
again, I have been saying for years that DL would make a big move to Asia. I have said that I expected they would add the primary cities and grow including with their KE JV.
DL, not me, said they are now aiming for parity plus with UA.
You love to pull up quotes from the past. How about you find the comments I have made about DL's future Asia position?
You can't stand that I am right and desperately want to tarnish my name with your accusations.
and if Gary and Ben can see IP addresses, then THEY know you are full of horse crap
And yet again... no denial of his own past by sTD nor any desire to prove me wrong -- why? Because we all know where that would go ;)
"You love to pull up quotes from the past. How about you find the comments I have made about DL's future Asia position?"
As much as I enjoy doing your work for you... go for it yourself, champ. You've put yourself in about every position...
And yet again... no denial of his own past by sTD nor any desire to prove me wrong -- why? Because we all know where that would go ;)
"You love to pull up quotes from the past. How about you find the comments I have made about DL's future Asia position?"
As much as I enjoy doing your work for you... go for it yourself, champ. You've put yourself in about every position imaginable so I'm sure you can find what you want just like anyone on here could find your 6 other positions you've taken to squirm out of indefensible arguments you always make.
"and if Gary and Ben can see IP addresses, then THEY know you are full of horse crap"
oooh, are you suggesting I live in a barn? You know... I'll take that over your spot in your mom's basement but thanks ;)
Again... a VERY easy way to prove me wrong about your past, Tim. Think of how delicious it would be to prove me wrong with Ben and/or Gary backing you up?! No one cares who you truly are but if I'm wrong about your past, work with one of them to prove it. ;)
When people tell their kids nowadays "Hey, careful what you put on the internet... it follows you around for the rest of your life". You should've heeded that advice long ago. Your past is well known, Tim.
Max, it is very easy to explain away the obsession Wayne has with Delta. He believes in the supernatural, Delta satisfies his need for worshipping idols.
Another thing I CAN'T explain.
Maybe you can.
@ Tim Dunn -- We're waiting to learn which EWR-LAX frequencies UA operates with 737-900ERs, please!! These are the important details!
“sTD” …Ooof! Got’em!
Maybe they'll just serve ICN from every airport in the US.
lots of big words from Delta but I still don't see where the gates are to do anything from the West Coast to Asia unless they have a good side deal going with LAWA at TBIT. They sure aren't getting any more gates in Seattle.
But hey, proof is in the pudding whenever it shows up beyond fancy words.
Fancy words... "Oh hey, great name... Yeah, isn't it? I got it off a hair dryer."
I like a man that can poke fun at himself. Oh hey, my 1p cancelled. Have you had any lunch?
Within the context of these blogs, I think "Fatso Goes Nutso" is wildly appropriate, too. It's from The Simpsons episode "Politically Inept, with Homer Simpson," in 2012. YouTube it.
Also, "that's the way Max Power is... decisive, uncompromising, and rude!"
"Nobody snuggles with Max Power. You strap yourself in and feel the G's.!"
…. And it doesn’t stop in the bedroom. Oh no. I’m taking charge!
I wonder how many times Ben used "admittedly" in the 43+ million words he wrote so far in his blogs! :) My comment is "admittedly" unrelated to this article, but I just wanted to show that some words add nothing to a sentence other than increasing the word count.
Good comment, but you should have padded it with "I can't help but wonder . . ."
Poor Tim is going crazy.
now, it is the UA fan nuts that are on the verge of meltdown.
DL is fairly reserved in its competitive comments, certainly compared to UA.
and Ben is right that DL and UA have largely stayed in their own orbits while feeding off of other carriers. Now DL is explicity stating that its target is UA and its west coast and TPAC advantage. I don't recall when DL specifically mentioned any carrier like that.
...now, it is the UA fan nuts that are on the verge of meltdown.
DL is fairly reserved in its competitive comments, certainly compared to UA.
and Ben is right that DL and UA have largely stayed in their own orbits while feeding off of other carriers. Now DL is explicity stating that its target is UA and its west coast and TPAC advantage. I don't recall when DL specifically mentioned any carrier like that.
For DL execs to state multiple times over the course of a week that they intend to grow the one region where a competitor has a distinct advantage and then come out and say that they intend to surpass that competitor will lead to some major conversations at Willis Tower this week.
DL simply has "once in a generation" advantages that they intend to take advantage of not just at LAX but across their network.
so, no, I am quite happy. The meltdowns are those that are realizing I have been right all along in saying that the Pacific would become DL's primary focus.
Given that Asia is fastest growing, DL will take a disproportionate share of the growth even as it eliminates UAs advantage.
TO be clear, neither I or DL are predicting UA's demise - just that DL will now have an advantage in every part of the world and eliminate the deficit to UA
Ok! Mr Big brain, while you are looking West towards the Asian market, the rest of the world is looking East. The rest of the world is taking big chunks out of the pie while the U.S. carriers are thanking chunks out of each other.
It is about time that you took your blinkers off Wayne, yes?
Delta will go to SE Asia and gobble down the vile SE Asia food , get the Delhi belly and the Saigon belly , and cancel the flight home .
Delta must grow by only 70% to pass United, if all of the growth is at United's expense. They both would split their $9.7 billion total market share. Since it's unlikely that Delta will convince 150% more people to fly to Asia, the goal is to take the existing customers away from the major competitor.
Wow this Carter chump seems like a low T beta wimp. Tiny Timmy D, your fluffing skills may be needed soon!
poor you.
Wake up to find out that DL has checkmated UA and your week and year and life just fell apart.
You are too parochially minded Wayne in both senses of the word. Is that why Delta fired you?
Go Knicks! Go!
(And, if you’re attending, be sure to save your voice for a loud “boo!!” when you-know-who visits for a few minutes then flees back to his bunker…)
Will the new DL A35Ks be able to do ATL to AKL, BNE, MEL, and/or SYD?
They'd probably need a ULR (900, like SQ, or the new 1000, like QF's Project Sunrise, recently tested on June 2!), but, you ignore my comments, so we'll have to just let our resident Delta expert correct us... everything is possible with Delta!
not known yet because we don't know the technical specs for these aircraft but they are likely the most capable 350-1000s that Airbus can build and ATL to the S. Pacific could be in range if DL sees value in those markets.
DL doesn't need 20 hour capable aircraft and QF is going to get that range by flying about 50 less seats than DL - but DL's 35Ks will be well below average...
not known yet because we don't know the technical specs for these aircraft but they are likely the most capable 350-1000s that Airbus can build and ATL to the S. Pacific could be in range if DL sees value in those markets.
DL doesn't need 20 hour capable aircraft and QF is going to get that range by flying about 50 less seats than DL - but DL's 35Ks will be well below average in number of seats.
AA and UA are much more getting range for its 789s by getting the number of seats down below 240 or 225. DL has 275 seats on its 359s and 315ish seats on its 35Ks. the newest 359s and the 35Ks should be capable of doing 18 hour flights - and still carry far more cargo than any AA or UA aircraft.
let's also keep in mind that AA and UA both had 350s on order; AA walked away from the 350 years ago and that made sense given how little TPAC network AA has. UA continues to hold onto 777s and while the 777-300ER has incredible capacity, it burns $50,000 more in fuel per trip than the 35K carrying similar amounts of cargo - and slightly more pasengers - and the 35K can go much further.
UA seems to think they should get 350s at 10 year old prices which will preclude the 350; the 777X will simply not be as capable at similar costs.
DL's move to grow the Pacific is undoubtedly based on its fleet advantage.
Tim, as expected, super optimistic in Delta's favor, but not likely technically viable with the mere a35K, non-ULR. Sure, newer Airbus may be better than the aging 777s. But, for better or worse, United still dominates S. Pacific. UA uses 789/78K for SFO/LAX to AKL/SYD/MEL/BNE/ADL. Personally, I hope Delta does compete even more here, because that'd benefit us consumers.
We're having quite the field day on TPAC networks of late. I have to admit even I haven't thought that DL would dream, let alone execute to become the largest carrier over the Pacific.
First, DL was the largest carrier across the Pacific for a short period post NW merger. that size was based on the NRT hub which didn't work financially. DL started to pull down NRT and many spokes "came off" NRT...
We're having quite the field day on TPAC networks of late. I have to admit even I haven't thought that DL would dream, let alone execute to become the largest carrier over the Pacific.
First, DL was the largest carrier across the Pacific for a short period post NW merger. that size was based on the NRT hub which didn't work financially. DL started to pull down NRT and many spokes "came off" NRT and DL became less and less relevant to Asia. UA used DL's drawdown to grow TPAC but UA did so by operating its TPAC system at just breakeven size. Post covid, UA made the right decision to re-add capacity and its margins are decent across the Pacific but, yes, DL gets more per ASM.
second, AA is not relevant in this discussion. Kirby is right that there is really only a place for 2 legacy carriers to Asia and DL intends to challenge UA.
third, as noted, UA is focused on size and the vast majority of its TPAC route network is from SFO which is a geographic advantage but the western US but is a liability from the eastern US where DL is already the largest US carrier to E. Asia. There are scores of cities - small and medium sized - that DL serves from ATL, DTW, and MSP that UA does not serve from SFO. and if I am paying for premium service, I don't want to fly halfway across the US before getting into a lie flat seat or premium select.
fourth, DL is not higher margin because it is smaller; it is higher margin because it gets higher revenue across its entire system including domestic, Latin and TATL where there is far less of a size difference. DL carries more corporate traffic, more domestic traffic, is larger in the eastern US, and has more non-transportation revenue including Amex revenue which do add to DL's bottom line even if Kirby wants to exclude it because UA is #3 out of 3 US global carriers in credit card revenue.
fifth, DL has a significant fuel cost advantage that will continue. We will find out how big it is in about a month when DL and UA report a full quarter's worth of operations under a high fuel cost environment. I have previously said that DL could save $1 billion/yr on this Iran war that shows no signs of ending and DL's $300 million/year estimate for Q2 fuel cost savings because of the refinery is very much in line wiht my estimate. a $1 billion fuel cost advantage is huge and subsidizes a huge amount of growth.
next, DL has some notable holes in its TPAC network including JFK to Asia as well as potentially BOS; ATL can make just about any route work and the 350 can make just about any route to anywhere work.
finally, DL's greatest advantage is its TPAC fleet which currently is operating almost entirely on A350-900s, larger and more capable than the 787-9 which is UA (and AA and AS') best aircraft for ultra long haul flights. But DL has 20 A350-1000s, the first of which will be in service in a year - and they will apparently all enter service within a couple years for a very aggressive fleet buildup. DL is buying them for the Pacific and S. Asia, not to fly to partner hubs in Europe which the 787-10 willl do. that is a lot of capacity and capability coming online in a pretty short period.
and the engines on the 359 are getting more efficient by 1.8% thanks to improvements by Rolls Royce. even a 1.5% improvement is huge on TPAC routes.
and KE and DL will work together across the Pacific including providing new acces to Asia from cities that have no E. Asia routes at all.
this will be an exciting end of the decade as DL aggressively grows TPAC.
Glen Haenstein undoubtedly knew this plan was coming as he went into retirement. Anyone that thinks that DL was going to do nothing now that he is gone are clearly mistaken.
Joe Esposito's legacy will undoubtedly be regaining DL's position as the leading airline across the Pacific and in building or acquiring a Texas hub; I'm not convinced that there isn't a N. Texas hub again in DL's future
this will be fun to watch; indeed, bring it on.
Oh, so, United-bad, Delta-perfect. Got it.
For real, though; good on Delta for at least trying to leverage its a350 to close the massive revenue gap that United currently enjoys across the Pacific.
Time will tell... *Delta launches service to Ulaanbaatar* jkjk
Seems that you were quite right about the toilet 1990. The analyst has just ‘dumped’ its first load. It’s a pity that I must walk the dog before getting down to the stench …. :-)
Aero, it does feel good to 'drop the load' and re-fuel. So, I say, bring it on. Let's go for another round!
This comment section is going to be a total sh!tshow… *pulls up a chair*
It must be taking the data analyst a lot longer than usual to ‘massage’ the figures …. we will just have to be patient before having a laugh.
Ben is naughty but nice! …. :-)
More like, pull up (to) a toilet and down some Ex-Lax...
Seems that you were quite right about the toilet 1990. The analyst has just ‘dumped’ its first load. It’s a pity that I must walk the dog before getting down to the stench …. :-)
And, if the Ex-Lax doesn't do it for ya, double-up by snorting some Metamucil... and, if that still has you backed-up... SNL recommends: Colon Blow! "I think I get the picture!"
US airlines having a competition with each other is like watching 2 overinflated bros talking about which one of them can run faster with their backs against the olympic games.
Having just flown LAX HKG on DL. And on UA and CX in the past year in business.
I have to say it's CX > UA > DL.
They don’t have the hubs for it
What are you talking about?
They're hubbed in 3 of the 5 largest US-Asia markets.
Delta is finally back to growing their transpacific flying. They finally have a nice scheduled to Australia including Melbourne and Brisbane. Their service to Tokyo is good (though they do not fly to JFK, which is a major hole in their network).
Tokyo is the single biggest destination for US airline customers in Asia and Delta is without a partner there. That leaves that at a major disadvantage. Sure, they do have Korean Air,...
Delta is finally back to growing their transpacific flying. They finally have a nice scheduled to Australia including Melbourne and Brisbane. Their service to Tokyo is good (though they do not fly to JFK, which is a major hole in their network).
Tokyo is the single biggest destination for US airline customers in Asia and Delta is without a partner there. That leaves that at a major disadvantage. Sure, they do have Korean Air, but flights to Korea take ~2 hrs longer. That’s a big deal.
Delta is far ahead of American, though very behind United in the pacific. Delta can add some more and fill its network in but it won’t catch United anytime soon.
No ADL though? Aww, shame. At least United flies there. Better wines than MEL, anyhow… *farts audibly in a crowded elevator*
That’s cute.
Delta:
SEA-ICN
SEA-PVG
SEA-TPE
SEA-HND
LAX-HKG
LAX-MEL
LAX-PVG
LAX-HND
LAX-SYD 1
LAX-SYD 2 (seasonal)
LAX-AKL (seasonal)
LAX-BNE (seasonal)
ATL-ICN 1
ATL-ICN 2
ATL-HND
DTW-ICN
DTW-PVG
DTW-HND
MSP-ICN
MSP-HND
SLC-ICN
HNL-HND
United:
LAX-HND
LAX-NRT
LAX-PEK
LAX-HKG-BKK
LAX-HKG-SGN
LAX-SYD
LAX-MEL
LAX-PVG
SFO-AKL
SFO-ADL...
That’s cute.
Delta:
SEA-ICN
SEA-PVG
SEA-TPE
SEA-HND
LAX-HKG
LAX-MEL
LAX-PVG
LAX-HND
LAX-SYD 1
LAX-SYD 2 (seasonal)
LAX-AKL (seasonal)
LAX-BNE (seasonal)
ATL-ICN 1
ATL-ICN 2
ATL-HND
DTW-ICN
DTW-PVG
DTW-HND
MSP-ICN
MSP-HND
SLC-ICN
HNL-HND
United:
LAX-HND
LAX-NRT
LAX-PEK
LAX-HKG-BKK
LAX-HKG-SGN
LAX-SYD
LAX-MEL
LAX-PVG
SFO-AKL
SFO-ADL (seasonal)
SFO-CHC (seasonal)
SFO-CTS (seasonal)
SFO-PEK
SFO-BNE
SFO-HKG 1
SFO-HKG 2
SFO-MNL 1
SFO-MNL 2
SFO-MEL
SFO-KIX
SFO-PPT
SFO-PVG
SFO-ICN 1
SFO-ICN 2
SFO-SYD 1
SFO-SYD 2 (seasonal)
SFO-TPE 1
SFO-TPE 2
SFO-HND
SFO-NRT
SFO-SIN 1
SFO-SIN 2
IAH-NRT
IAH-SYD (seasonal)
ORD-HND
ORD-NRT
IAD-HND
EWR-DEL
EWR-NRT
EWR-HND
EWR-ICN
DEN-NRT
HNL-MAJ-KWA-KSA-PNI-TKK-GUM
NRT-CEB
NRT-GUM
NRT-KHH
NRT-ROR
NRT-SPN
NRT-ULN (seasonal)
GUM-NGO
GUM-TPE
GUM-KIX
GUM-HND
GUM-NRT
GUM-MNL
GUM-YAP
Good luck, Delta. And nobody cares, Tim.
How many of those are profitable? I would say Pacific is a good reason why United is behind Delta on profitability each year. Sexy routes don't pay bills. Winning isn't always by quantity.
I'd say "Jetiquette" is TD in disguise, when profits are used to say Delta is better. But the post was too short.
Ben said: "United’s Pacific strategy is much more about building a portfolio of routes that make the airline appealing overall, rather than each and every route being mega profitable".
$6.8B in revenue for the Pacific seems like enough to support a few sexy routes to encourage customer loyalty, which is UA's strategy. And...
I'd say "Jetiquette" is TD in disguise, when profits are used to say Delta is better. But the post was too short.
Ben said: "United’s Pacific strategy is much more about building a portfolio of routes that make the airline appealing overall, rather than each and every route being mega profitable".
$6.8B in revenue for the Pacific seems like enough to support a few sexy routes to encourage customer loyalty, which is UA's strategy. And I don't care about small differences in profitability. I care about convenient flights where I need to go or want to go, at the best price I can get.
Let them ROR!
Don’t forget HKG-BKK and HKG-SGN.
In other words, this is an admission that Delta’s retreat from Narita and intra-Asia routes for a JV with Korean out of Seoul was a huge mistake. Delta flying to Singapore would be a return of something they haven’t done since pre-pandemic. It’s been almost 10 years since Delta has flown New York to Tokyo. Delta had an incredible Asian network. Even credit cards in Guam!
FTN, it is worth holding one’s breath for the retort …. :-)
Aero, let Tim have coffee and a piss first. Sheesh!
"In other words, this is an admission that Delta’s retreat from Narita and intra-Asia routes for a JV with Korean out of Seoul was a huge mistake."
You might wish to familiarize yourself with the term "anecdotal conclusion."
"Delta had an incredible Asian network."
And was losing their ass on it. By their own admission, nearly 80% of NW's intra Asian routes were losing money on a per-segment basis, at the time of the merger....
"In other words, this is an admission that Delta’s retreat from Narita and intra-Asia routes for a JV with Korean out of Seoul was a huge mistake."
You might wish to familiarize yourself with the term "anecdotal conclusion."
"Delta had an incredible Asian network."
And was losing their ass on it. By their own admission, nearly 80% of NW's intra Asian routes were losing money on a per-segment basis, at the time of the merger. Continuing to operate that model, without a Japanese partner nor a j/v partner in Asia overall, would've been financial suicide.
Oh, lordy, yes, what a Tim-ism: your opinion is “ancedotal”… whereas his opinion is “data” and “facts.” *smh*
I am unconvinced by your data and facts submission 1990. The numpty is very economical with all of the facts and uses the data to substantiate is version of the fact, don’t you know?
Thank you for 're-educating' me, Aero. I feel like I've taken a roundtrip to Xinjiang!
So you knew all the time? You know what he’s like then, do you think that he is currently trying to justify why Delta have allowed United to dominate them in Asia? Perhaps it was he who proposed the hub move from Japan to Korea and was sacked for it?
I don't know. Narita is good for connecting, but Haneda is so much more convenient if you're staying in Tokyo. I do not miss having to take a 50+ minute train to Narita. Haneda is only 20 minutes from where I typically stay. It would depend on which customer base you are trying to serve.
Jetiquette, 100%. Not to mention, HND has that awesome upstairs flight-seeing deck! Av-geek paradise!
Jetiquette is correct.
NRT's doom as a hub came when the Japanese government decided to allow HND open enough to serve the majority of US Tokyo demand.
Even now, JL and NH's NRT hubs lack most of the local Tokyo revenue because it flows to HND. UA's attempts to add a bunch of narrowbody spokes onto NRT isn't about the great local markets to secondary and tertiary cities that UA is flying but...
Jetiquette is correct.
NRT's doom as a hub came when the Japanese government decided to allow HND open enough to serve the majority of US Tokyo demand.
Even now, JL and NH's NRT hubs lack most of the local Tokyo revenue because it flows to HND. UA's attempts to add a bunch of narrowbody spokes onto NRT isn't about the great local markets to secondary and tertiary cities that UA is flying but an attempt to keep the total amount of revenue that goes through NRT from further falling.
and let's keep in mind in this whole discussion that DL is essentially building a TPAC operation from scratch - one based on US hubs. UA bought Pan Am's TPAC network 40 years ago that had a lot of TPAC routes to other than Tokyo. DL and NW had only a few of those and most were from DTW or ATL.
Tim, glad you've had your coffee. Maybe take a few more sips, though, or switch from decaf to caffeinated, because you're forgetting Northwest. Delta was handed a turn-key Pacific network in 2008 and spent a decade dismantling it to build their current model (ICN JV). Sure, sure, ignore Guam at your peril. Meanwhile, United is still printing money on underserved routes using high-yield fifth-freedom rights that Delta willingly threw away.
Submission 1990, if you please?
It occurred to me that it was because of the Delta flawed analysis of the Asian market that Delta Dunn was fired?
Xi told me ….
Ahhh, so... that's what Xi said... ;-O