This week, American Airlines CEO Robert Isom announced that he was prepared to give pilots massive raises, which will see some senior captains making $590K per year. Not surprisingly, other work groups want big raises as well.
In this post:
What American flight attendants are demanding
American flight attendants have been negotiating a new contract, but haven’t yet come to an agreement with management. The Association of Professional Flight Attendants (APFA), which represents all flight attendants at American, has now unveiled a new proposal. The union is requesting:
- A 35% pay increase as of the day the contract is signed, with further 6% annual pay increases in subsequent years, for the duration of the contract (which is three years)
- An increase in reserve guarantees, so that when a flight attendant is on reserve for a month, they get paid for a minimum of 82 hours, rather than 75 hours
- An increase in premiums paid for language speakers, for international flights, and for those working galleys
- Boarding pay, whereby flight attendants are paid 50% of their regular hourly pay during boarding
- New night pay, whereby flight attendants are paid extra when working domestic flights at night
- An increase in per diems, so that flight attendants receive more money for each hour they’re gone from home
- An increase in profit sharing, from the current 5%, to 10% of pre-tax earnings up to $2.5 billion, and 20% above that
For those curious, below is a chart that shows current hourly flight attendant day, plus the proposed pay starting the date the contract is signed.
My take on the flight attendant union demands
It’s not surprising to see the flight attendant union use this opportunity to try to negotiate a new contract, especially given how serious management seems about giving pilots a new contract. Admittedly this is just a proposal, and you can almost certainly bet that there will be some negotiating here.
What’s my take? On the one hand, I can’t blame flight attendants for aiming high here. Why wouldn’t they? It’s kind of a slap in the face to other labor groups when pilots (already the best paid employees at the airline) are being offered absolutely massive pay raises, while flight attendants continue to have not-great pay.
With the new contracts pilots are getting, a senior captain would make about seven or eight times as much as a senior flight attendant. That’s… quite a pay difference.
On the other hand, on some level this reflects supply and demand. The reality is that there’s a never-ending list of applicants who want to become flight attendants. Training takes several weeks, so the potential labor pool there is quite large.
Meanwhile at the moment there’s a pilot shortage, and they also can’t easily be replaced. Training to become a pilot from scratch takes years, so realistically that shortage will continue to exist for some amount of time. Simply put, right now pilots have a lot more leverage than flight attendants.
Bottom line
The union representing American flight attendants is demanding absolutely massive pay increases. The union wants 35% pay increases across the board, then 6% annual pay increases after that, then boarding pay, then increased profit sharing, and then increased pay for all kinds of functions, ranging from language speakers, to night flying.
I can’t blame American flight attendants for making all these requests, given what pilots are getting. All these pay increases seem unsustainable. As I explained in a separate post, the incremental pay American pilots will be getting is greater than American’s annual net profit during the “best of times” (pre-pandemic).
What do you make of this request from the flight attendant union?
We only get paid flight hours we don't get paid for staying in a hotel for boarding for flight delays we could be gone 50 hours and only get paid only 10 hrs. so when you think about it we're getting paid minimum wage. We only get paid for the time we're in the air not sitting around
Envy makes people say very stupid things (especially those people not in the industry)—all the whining, and complaining, and the spewing of hate ...wow... for what I did for over 30+ years (recently retired, and still looking quite the hottie, FYI): tending to your entitled sorry @rses.
"Waitressing" in the air got me around the world plenty, and I saw with my very own eyes what you will (probably) only see in a National...
Envy makes people say very stupid things (especially those people not in the industry)—all the whining, and complaining, and the spewing of hate ...wow... for what I did for over 30+ years (recently retired, and still looking quite the hottie, FYI): tending to your entitled sorry @rses.
"Waitressing" in the air got me around the world plenty, and I saw with my very own eyes what you will (probably) only see in a National Geographic magazine. My world travels, all the while looking after y'all's moaning & groaning & bitching ...every single ...flight, have afforded me the best life experiences that none of your cockamamie degrees (if you have one) can top. Keep calm, and continue to enjoy your cubicle 9-to-5. Cheers.
The current management is a result of BK and the 2013 merger. They will pretty much stop at nothing to get what they are after. Even to the point of collusion, nepotism and bribing Union officials. To understand you can read:
https://callingonthedoj.wordpress.com
If you want to know what it takes for the flight attendants to obtain the contract they deserve, read " The Great Stewardess Rebellion: How Women Launched a Workplace Revolution at...
The current management is a result of BK and the 2013 merger. They will pretty much stop at nothing to get what they are after. Even to the point of collusion, nepotism and bribing Union officials. To understand you can read:
https://callingonthedoj.wordpress.com
If you want to know what it takes for the flight attendants to obtain the contract they deserve, read " The Great Stewardess Rebellion: How Women Launched a Workplace Revolution at 30,000 Feet ". I have known many flight attendant for American for 4o years.
What about passenger services gate agents do a lot of work and we want more money as well since we have to deal with a lot more than flight attendants
After the pilots get paid there won’t be much profit to be shared by anyone.
I can recall when Bob Crandell was running AA, new flight attendants were eligible for food stamps and other government benefits, their incomes were so low.
There seems to be two arguments here. How much should an FA earn, and how to change the culture so that they are more attentive? The wages will be worked out by the marketplace (see what Delta will pay to keep their FAs non-unionized.) Culture is a more difficult issue to address. No ideas for that one.
Give them whatever they want / hazard pay too/ nightmare being a flight attendant now / getting teeth knocked out : stabbed in neck with spoon yesterday : people trying to open airplane door : not the Job I had in 70s
The FA hourly pay rates per hour both existing and proposed sound great!
But, and it's a big but, I understand that their paid time only kicks in t
when they are on board, and even then only when the door closes. Are there any FAs reading this who can elaborate?
IMO this is not a casual job, and as such should come with an annual salary, with appropriate bonuses and allowances...
The FA hourly pay rates per hour both existing and proposed sound great!
But, and it's a big but, I understand that their paid time only kicks in t
when they are on board, and even then only when the door closes. Are there any FAs reading this who can elaborate?
IMO this is not a casual job, and as such should come with an annual salary, with appropriate bonuses and allowances for extra flights flown and suchlike. It is demeaning to be paid highly variable casual-like hourly rates for an occupation some may view as a career.
It's true we only get paid once the doors closed and the plane is moving we don't get paid for sitting around for 4 or 5 hours that they report we're in a hotel for 20 or 30 hours a lot of people have families and I'd rather be home with their family that's sitting in a hotel people just want to get paid for their being away from home
CUT THEIR PAY!
Just flew AA... FA's spent the flight on their phones and complaining about the company. Almost no service in business class. What ever they are being paid now... it is way too much!
Or pay them when they work. Sit in the galley? No pay. On your phone? No pay!
Surely you would be the last one down the slide! Yes they get paid for the knowledge and technique to deliver your baby and your drink within the same hours. And keep you breathing and throw your sorry ass down the slide when the plane is on fire ! Hello !
They will never get that because there are no real skills needed to be a flight attendant unlike a pilot and the airlines would rather they only stick around for 3-5 years to keep them fresh and enthusiastic about the job.
@Jj…and you think they’re going to be more enthusiastic about the job when they’re all on here reading the trashy comments. HAAAA!!! I love the ones that call all of us older ones sky grannies. You’re lucky if you have us on board. Some of the younger ones don’t put up with the crap you all spew. They’ll pull your butts right off the plane and not think twice about it. A lot of these people commenting on here are just certifiable nuts. HAAA!!!
We're not in the least bit lucky. You're an appalling wreck. Most of you are physically incapable of doing the job. Most of you are ugly as sin. The younger ones are going to start getting prosecuted for that crap, stay tuned.
You're the problem, sky waitress. Shut the hell up and get me a beer.
Watch out guys we got a real badass over here.
@Fred…from this skywaitress to A*****e get me a beer Fred, have a Fabulous day…run along little one.
Lmfao. Meanwhile; I'm amazed that a decent amount of you sheeplike PAX can even dress yourselves before arriving at the aircraft.
You've had one too many; no beer for you, boomer. Here's an imported artesian seltzer instead.
I agree with reasonable cost of living increases, combined with a reasonable profit share across almost all industries (though I also believe there's a cap for the value of any job position, whether it be a wage or salary based position; endless increases for sticking around...nope). Of course, remarkable circumstances such as the pilot shortage will naturally impact compensation requirements.....but I'm not seeing how this % increase is sustainable.
The proposed profit share is...
I agree with reasonable cost of living increases, combined with a reasonable profit share across almost all industries (though I also believe there's a cap for the value of any job position, whether it be a wage or salary based position; endless increases for sticking around...nope). Of course, remarkable circumstances such as the pilot shortage will naturally impact compensation requirements.....but I'm not seeing how this % increase is sustainable.
The proposed profit share is laughable, as how will AA ever make such profits if this agreement is accepted, not too mention the other work groups who will of course demand significant increases as a result.
These raises are only keeping up with inflation
I retired after 31 years at AA as a flight attendant. I still get the emails from the union, the APFA, and nowhere does it state "demands". The union calls it an "economic proposal", which is exactly what it is.
I don't know why I torture myself by reading the comments here because it just raises my blood pressure. Even after all the years of dealing with many terrible human beings I'm still amazed...
I retired after 31 years at AA as a flight attendant. I still get the emails from the union, the APFA, and nowhere does it state "demands". The union calls it an "economic proposal", which is exactly what it is.
I don't know why I torture myself by reading the comments here because it just raises my blood pressure. Even after all the years of dealing with many terrible human beings I'm still amazed at the things people choose to write and publish on sites like this.
Someone mentioned here that flight attendants are just standing around chatting during boarding and this couldn't be further from the truth. If you are following AA procedures the boarding process is actually more labor intensive than any other phase of flight after the door closes, the brakes are released the the pay clock starts ticking. I worked mainly in the aft galley and First Class and I can tell you I was never standing around chatting. The FC F/A, for example, is setting up the galley and meal carts, checking catering, dealing with unaccompanied minors and wheelchairs, monitoring overhead bin usage, making PAs, hanging coats and jackets, taking pre-departure beverage preferences, checking emergency equipment, dealing with "seat dupes" (yes, those still happen), etc., etc. All of this is unpaid and actually more stressful than after the door closes and the flight begins.
So yes, their proposal for boarding pay, even at 1/2 pay, is way overdue. I wish them well but realize what they are up against. I loved my job but loathed my employer and now that it is all the penny-pinching America West holdovers running the airline it is actually, unbelievably worse.
It's sad that the author thinks FAs have less leverage due to a high labor pool... all we want is living wages for the hard work we put in and don't get paid for. Why is that such a hard concept to grasp? Currently, you can make more money at a minimum wage job where there is no training required and you get a guaranteed meal break. Here, it's normal to put in a 12-14...
It's sad that the author thinks FAs have less leverage due to a high labor pool... all we want is living wages for the hard work we put in and don't get paid for. Why is that such a hard concept to grasp? Currently, you can make more money at a minimum wage job where there is no training required and you get a guaranteed meal break. Here, it's normal to put in a 12-14 hr day to only be paid for 5-6 hrs of it, if you're lucky. At least with pilots' pay, they can make an actual living for all the hours that aren't paid. We can't. It isn't an absurd idea for us FAs, especially those of us who are educated and have our own debts to pay just like the pilots do, to be paid appropriately for our time. We take pride in our work and are highly skilled safety professionals. We should get paid the moment we check in for our trips and are through security, same as a person with a 9-5 gets paid the moment they step into the office. We don't even get paid the federal minimum wage if you account for inflation and time spent with the door open/parking brake set. Things need to change if they want FAs to be as passionate and attentive towards the job as the job demands.
More pay is earned. They want more pay while having less requirements.
How about bring back weight checks and then discuss higher pay.
@staradmiral….have you been living under a rock sir? Obviously you are either 14 yrs old or never fly. Less requirements? When I started flying 40+ yrs ago I didn’t have to know how to cuff a person. Grow up and start walking a mile in other peoples shoes.
Lots of discussion on other posts that pilot pay is market based. As there are many more applicants for FA jobs than openings it would seem that market based pay for FAs doesn't show a need to be raised.
I'd like to see how the AA FA and pilot pay compares to non US major airlines. Exactly the same job and skills required on BA, AF, LX, QF, SQ. London, Paris, Zurich, Sydney and Singapore sure aren't inexpensive places to live.
First and foremost there's not any realistic way to do objective performance reviews on flight attendants. Second, decades ago contracts were negotiated that didn't pay for boarding time but made it up in the hourly wage. However, decades ago flight attendants did little other than stand in the gallies, smile and maybe find a blanket and pillow for passengers asking. (And of course the premium cabin FA served drinks). Today it's become a stress factor...
First and foremost there's not any realistic way to do objective performance reviews on flight attendants. Second, decades ago contracts were negotiated that didn't pay for boarding time but made it up in the hourly wage. However, decades ago flight attendants did little other than stand in the gallies, smile and maybe find a blanket and pillow for passengers asking. (And of course the premium cabin FA served drinks). Today it's become a stress factor for FAs and therefore I think they should be compensated. It's airline management that has turned boarding into the total cluster it now is.
No shortage of vitriol here for flight attendants. They deserve a raise just like the rest of us in the current economic climate. I’d be willing to bet large sums of money that it won’t approach the high increment lift that the pilots are getting. The opening salvo seems extreme.
No one "deserves" a raise. Raises are earned. FA's by their entire actions show they haven't earned jack.
Seems like a non-starter given the recently announced austerity plan at AA and the CEO's mantra (in 2022), "We can't spend a dollar we don't need to". I don't think it's reasonable to expect AA can cost cut its way to profitability.
Sky waitresses are already lazy and overpaid. This is stupid.
Fred you're a moron. Let's see you do a half an hour trying to revive a heart attack victim in-flight, dealing with people trying to open a door inflight! Or even accommodation obnoxious people their children and pets. Better yet I invite you to apply for a flight attendant position I would bet that you would not make it thru the first round of interviews. Flight Attendants are professionals and deserve better pay and benefits.
Why don't we simply pay everyone the same, for all jobs? Isn't that the Truly Fair solution?
To cover these and the pilots raises fares are going to need to increase dramatically and that is going to kill bottom of the barrel demand, particularly for the ULCCs. What I see is another round of Chapter 11 filings.
Time to phase out Flight Attendants ? Reduce the number per flight ?
Install self service kiosks and vending machines in the galley . Give out meals on the jet bridge during boarding. Safety videos at the gate. Car sensor type alarms in each individual seat if a passenger does not have their seatbelt fastened.
Who would handle a medical emergency? Who would guide passengers during a aircraft evacuation or crash-not every flight is going to have a doctor, nurse or EMT personnel on board. And people generally do not pay attention to safety videos.
@jedipenguin…don’t even bother responding to D3kingg. He sits on his couch all day long and loves to make himself feel better by trashing everybody else. Makes him feel good.
More than deserve, the FA work hard and the cost of living due to the inflation is too high.
OK, shill.
And yet their service will still be fake and crap lol
Performance Based Only! No complaints, positive reviews, you get a raise!
If the pilots wanted to look just a smidge less greedy they would publicly support the FA's demands. For that matter, they should even offer a sympathy strike if it comes down to it. Otherwise the pilots look like egotistical jerks who only care about themselves while they make vast amounts of money and everybody else is left behind. At very best the optics are horrific.
Just like doctors look like egoistical jerks when they don't support the cafeteria staff's salary demands? High-paid professionals have more leverage. Serving drinks and acting out skits (safety demonstration) is an easily replaceable function.
@Andrew
We don’t even need Flight Attendants for that. People are capable of of getting a drink themselves. People with disabilities can opt to be given their beverages for the flight at the gate before boarding. People can watch a safety video or read a leaflet or be required to watch a video at Checkin.
Persons might be capable of many things, but "people" are not capable of a whole lot. You can't even count on people to not start fights, pee on their seat mates or not bring their carry-ons with them when they have to evacuate from a plane.
I certainly don’t blame flight attendant union for trying. If they do get close to that kind of salary bump, then we are looking at bankruptcy court when times become bad. Their salary will be renegotiated down with benefits stripped. This is kinda like borrowing from future for near term gains. But then again, unless you want to be a career flight attendant, near term gain is beneficial to ones who are in this for three to five years.
lol, for all the lazy, grumpy, obese US3 grannies
Last I checked AA was highly leveraged, and has only made in the low single digit profit margin in the best of times. Curious how employees expect AA to be raising wages by 35% while interest rates rise on their debt.
For all of the garbage flight attendants put up with during the pandemic. This proposal is pretty reasonable
Tell me you're a lazy POS FA without telling me... They didn't put up with anything - they just had to actually work for a change.
Anybody see health care workers get a 35% raise due to their actual work during the pandemic?
I support anybody, in any position, demanding a pay raise, as long as they’re not expecting it to come out of my own pocket. Which is not an unreasonable expectation as I don’t employ anybody.
@YinDaoYan
You should ride a bicycle back to the village for your next family reunion as airfare will soon become unaffordable for you.
Especially when the new CEO doubled his own pay and the company is extremely unethical. Read for yourself.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/tedreed/2016/01/09/american-airlines-hires-former-union-leader-as-consultant-stirring-controversy/?sh=5f63a30351b1
Damn right they should get that pay raise! Especially boarding pay which to this point has been compensated at exactly 0 dollars per hr. With what flight attendants have been putting up with for years!!
How many hours of flight pay do FAs normally get a year? Is it 900 like pilots?
I’d imagine it depends on how many flights they work on…
To be a little less than snarky, a lot of flight attendants are effectively part-time as they have other jobs like nurse, chef, etc. (just to name a few I’ve heard of firsthand)
@Brian - I have an AA FA friend who does 70 hours per month but I’m not sure if that is the top limit.
For AA there is no “top limit”. The base salary is based on 70 hours….but flight attendants can, and many do, fly over 100 hours plus… if you’re flying “high time”, the only restrictions are work rules. Many can fly up to 140-150 hours/month.
Thanks!
40 hrs minimum required per month. Most of my colleagues fly 100+ hrs- some as high as 160
With pay raises like these for the pilots and (possibly) flight attendants, airline profit margins will obviously get squeezed unless/until they can pass on these (significantly) higher labor costs on to passengers in the form of higher fares. Leisure air travel has rebounded nicely over the past year with the relaxation of Covid controls domestically and abroad, but higher U.S. interest rates are likely to put a damper on the economy and consumer spending by...
With pay raises like these for the pilots and (possibly) flight attendants, airline profit margins will obviously get squeezed unless/until they can pass on these (significantly) higher labor costs on to passengers in the form of higher fares. Leisure air travel has rebounded nicely over the past year with the relaxation of Covid controls domestically and abroad, but higher U.S. interest rates are likely to put a damper on the economy and consumer spending by the end of the year. In which case airlines will see falling demand immediately after locking in these higher costs. Hard to see U.S. airline stocks in a favorable light now, given these circumstances.
The old joke/adage still holds, the best way to make a small fortune in the airline business is to start with a large fortune.
Disagree on airline stocks in the short-run. The customer type that the legacy airlines are targeting has changed from a business traveler to a wealthier leisure traveler with savings or retirement. Agreed this will hurt the southwest and ulcc market, but the legacy carriers seem to have the market where they want.
I agree. I have watched the change since the start of COVID, as passengers came back I noticed the type of traveler up front changed and the prices went up at the same time. My colleague just hit Exec Plat for the first time and I haven’t the heart to tell her the good times are gone.
Gee only 24 hours ago on OMAAT I said AAFA would be bitter with the pay disparity. 1) No matter what the top of the pay grade is, airline personnel are never ever happy. 2) The second the economy crashes, airlines CEOs cry poor. 3) Airlines then layoff employees. 4) Airlines get a bailout from the Federal government. Wash, rinse, repeat.
LOL a glorified waitress in the sky who is supposedly there for safety demands a 50% pay increase over 3 years.
All these waitresses have to do is go in the military for 8 years and serve their country. Leave their families behind. Then spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on training and having huge debt just to get into the first year of a low pilot salary.
They all have the opportunity if they...
LOL a glorified waitress in the sky who is supposedly there for safety demands a 50% pay increase over 3 years.
All these waitresses have to do is go in the military for 8 years and serve their country. Leave their families behind. Then spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on training and having huge debt just to get into the first year of a low pilot salary.
They all have the opportunity if they want to do it. Unfortunately they would rather just put on makeup and sling pasta and make tons of money. NOT. Next we're going to be paying people at 7-Eleven behind the counter $100,000 a year.
Nailed it.
Replace FAs with robots.
Very greedy. In contrast, Medicare payments to doctors are being cut and is commonly cut most years or is just increased 1%, way below inflation. Of course, that may because doctors are banned from unionizing except in a few exceptions.
Derek-
One other issue- even if doctors can unionize, they can only negotiate with their employer, not Medicare. You can lobby the government a little to decrease those cuts, but Medicare doesn't negotiate. In any negotiation, they just shoot the hostage.
Fee-for-service Medicare is a scam on patients and it’s a good thing payments to doctors are down under this payment model.
I feel for all workers at the airlines/airports. I really do. That being said, air travel is the most expensive it's been in my 38 years on the planet, service/amenities are the worst, and I just can't imagine how this is all sustainable. I see a bankruptcy in the next 5 years of all of the airlines. And another BIG bailout.
"That being said, air travel is the most expensive it's been in my 38 years on the planet"
Nonsense.
On an inflation adjusted basis, there's no chance that 2023 is peak US air travel cost.
For those of us who've been around a little longer than your 38 years, US air travel was *much* more expensive on an inflation adjusted basis prior to deregulation in 1978,
Exactly Mr. KNOW IT ALL. I said in MY years here, which would have been after 1985/1986.
But you are wrong. Even post deregulation, prices have trended consistently down. Fares might be higher than last year but they are not higher than the last 38 years. So unless you are a toddler, prices are still down in your flying years.
Guess you haven’t been paying for your own tickets much lately. Fares are horrible.
@Never In Doubt - Agree. Back in 1985, I routinely spent $500 on a discounted fare to fly cross country. In today’s money that’s close to $1500.
JFK-LAX for Friday 3/31 is $369. $1500 seems either a walk up fare, business cabin, or incorrect
She's saying that back in '85 she paid today's equivalent of $1,500 to fly cross country, showing ticket prices were relatively more expensive back then, since as you just mentioned you can find a flight for $369.
I see no future in your investment or asset management career.
Nothing like.being paid almost $100 an hour to stand around the galley gossiping, whilst at the same time have a four demeanour towards the passengers.