The Wall Street Journal is reporting that a draft of a new Executive Order on travel has been circulating through the State Department and other agencies, and notes that a “replacement order is expected to be issued as soon as Tuesday.”
For those that haven’t been following closely, the Trump Administration chose not to appeal a 9th Circuit Court decision to block enforcement of his original travel ban. Instead, the White House is starting from scratch with a new order entirely.
As opposed to the chaos of the original order, which was poorly implemented without any advance notice, stranding passengers in transit, and generally creating a mess, the revised version appears to be going through the proper channels and procedures.
This means that the order will likely be tighter legally, and somewhat less susceptible to legal challenges. From the article:
The State Department memo makes clear the White House is seeking a careful and deliberate rollout of the new executive order, with government lawyers requesting its implementation seven to 14 days after Mr. Trump signs the document. The lag period is designed for government lawyers to deal with any legal challenges to the new order before it is implemented, the memo explains.
It’s key to note, however, that the 7-14 day implementation isn’t guaranteed, so there might not be much more than a 24-48 hour notice to avoid people getting trapped in transit like last time.
The fundamentals of the order, as they relate to travel, appear mostly unchanged. Nationals of Iraq, Iran, Syria, Libya, Yemen, Somalia and Sudan will be at least temporarily banned from travel to, or transit of, the United States, regardless of previously-issued visas.
If the draft can be relied upon, the key differences are that Green Card holders should be specifically excluded from the ban. That being said, if you are originally from of any of these seven countries, I would not expect an easy airport experience even if you are a permanent resident. Ideally the more careful implementation will lead to better training guidelines for CBP agents, but based on what we’ve seen in the past few weeks I wouldn’t count on it.
Ultimately, if you, or your family members, are from one of the seven countries listed and intend to travel to the U.S. in the near-future on currently-issued visas, I would strongly consider moving your trip up if you can.
Those residing in the U.S. with long-term visas, or conditional (but not yet permanent) resident status should strongly consider the necessity of international trips in the short-term. If you’re abroad currently, get home.
Finally, if you’re the child of an immigrant from one of the seven countries, and your parents have Green Cards but not yet citizenship, talk to them about their upcoming travel plans, and make sure they know their options and rights if they are detained by CBP. Again, if they’re abroad, I would try and get them home just to make it easier for them. The new order should exclude Green Card holders, but that doesn’t mean the re-entry process will be simple for people originally from one of these countries.
Overall, it seems that this version of the Executive Order is being properly vetted (as it should have been in the first place). There may still be legal challenges over time, but I would not expect emergency overnight stays this time around. Consider that when making or adjusting your travel plans.
Bill Clinton, 1995, in his own words:
https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4351026/clinton-1995-immigration-sotu
Good thing Hillary didn't get in -- she might actually follow through with Bill's plans.
Trying to explain facts and nuances to some people almost seems futile including our president. I'm sure most of these people also believe that 2016 election saw the biggest electoral college victory since Reagan. The "nuance" that 426 and 365 and 332 are larger than 306 is lost on them :-).
No, Tiffany, I didn't say anything was "the same". I said "When in fact this list of 7 countries comes from the “Terrorist Travel Prevention Act of 2015”, a bipartisan bill passed during the Obama administration".
Time for me to stop now, since we can't even seem to agree on the meaning of a simple sentence. I don't want to end up debating what the meaning of "is" is... :(
Sure Tiffany, you can find many Very Liberal MSM outlets, whose reporters are basically 'Democrat operatives with bylines', (remember how one of them secretly gave Hillary debate questions in advance, one of them even submitted his stories to her campaign to be approved before they were published, a number them cried on air as the election results were announced), who will make a big deal about how this is a "false equivalence" (sic). This is...
Sure Tiffany, you can find many Very Liberal MSM outlets, whose reporters are basically 'Democrat operatives with bylines', (remember how one of them secretly gave Hillary debate questions in advance, one of them even submitted his stories to her campaign to be approved before they were published, a number them cried on air as the election results were announced), who will make a big deal about how this is a "false equivalence" (sic). This is Fake News, just like the news story about how Trump removed the MLK bust from the Oval Office (not true), was in the process of calling up 100,000 National Guard soldiers to round up Millions of illegals (not true), that Senator Sessions is a racist (not true).
“The seven countries named in the Executive Order are the same countries previously identified by the Obama administration as sources of terror.” President Trump's statement regarding executive order, Jan. 29, 2017
“He is calling for extreme vetting from seven countries that President Obama first identified. All he did was take his lead. He didn’t even add to the list.” Kellyanne Conway, counselor to the president, interview on MSNBC’s “Hardball,” Feb. 2, 2017
It's not a 'false equivalence'(sic) because no one I know ever said they were identical. Same countries, yes, similar EOs, of course not. Strawman arguments don't "help anyone's cause" either.
But what YOU posted is wrong: "there is a profound difference between slowing the processing of refugee applications due to a specific concern about inadequate vetting, and banning people based on their national origin."
Because it's not a BAN at all, it's a several month Pause, to allow increased vetting to be put in place for people coming from failed states where active Terrorist training is taking place. And Obama's 6 month "ban" on Iraqis was indeed "directed at people based on their national origin". Iraq is a nation, n'est pas?
So let's see: slowing processing by 4 months, (check), due to concern about inadequate vetting, (check). But "banning people based on their national origin". (false). As you said: "Nuance matters"....
I take from your comment that you feel that "everyone", except for (racist alt-right sites (sic) like "Breitbart"), knows in their heart that Trump's EO is un-American. Again, that's what most MSM "stories" will tell you, but as usual it's just more Fake News. I've got two polls on that, done on DJT's original (admittedly poorly drafted) EO:
"The Reuters/Ipsos poll found that 49 percent of Americans agreed with the order and 41 percent disagreed. Some 53 percent of Democrats said they "strongly disagree" with Trump's action while 51 percent of Republicans said they "strongly agree."
And the typically more accurate Rasmussen Reports (Reuter/Ipsos predicted "If the election were held today, the project estimates that Clinton has a 60 percent chance of winning by 18 electoral votes" whereas Rasmussen Reports predicated Hillary would win the popular vote by 2%) found this:
"A new Rasmussen Reports survey finds that 57% of Likely U.S. Voters favor a temporary ban on refugees from Syria, Iraq, Iran, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and Yemen until the federal government approves its ability to screen out potential terrorists from coming here. Thirty-three percent (33%) are opposed, while 10% are undecided."
So the original EO, even though so poorly drafted, was favored by 10% more than the @47% who voted for Trump.
Not un-American, not xenophobic, not unpopular... Well, except with anti-Trump partisans, like the people who post here that anyone who disagrees with them is "obviously stupid".
@ Robert Hanson -- Actually, what I posted is correct. Obama slowed refugee admissions from Iraq. Refugees don't travel on the same types of visas, as a start, in case you're not familiar with the difference. Visas were still processed and approved for other Iraqis, like those serving our troops as interpreters, and some students -- the pause wasn't based on national origin. And even with the slowdown, there wasn't a single month in 2011...
@ Robert Hanson -- Actually, what I posted is correct. Obama slowed refugee admissions from Iraq. Refugees don't travel on the same types of visas, as a start, in case you're not familiar with the difference. Visas were still processed and approved for other Iraqis, like those serving our troops as interpreters, and some students -- the pause wasn't based on national origin. And even with the slowdown, there wasn't a single month in 2011 where Iraqi refugees weren't admitted to the US.
You're the one who said they were the same, they are demonstrably not. Why is this even a source of disagreement?
@Charles S - "Clearly trump won because the liberal elite didn’t think about working class Americans, and rather than addressing that they are just calling them stupid. "
Yes the anger of the working class Americans is understandable at the so called "liberal elite". But the reason Trump supporters are stupid is because they were so easily conned by a conman. One has to just look at how he has screwed working class Americans his...
@Charles S - "Clearly trump won because the liberal elite didn’t think about working class Americans, and rather than addressing that they are just calling them stupid. "
Yes the anger of the working class Americans is understandable at the so called "liberal elite". But the reason Trump supporters are stupid is because they were so easily conned by a conman. One has to just look at how he has screwed working class Americans his whole life. But unfortunately his supporters still can't see that he doesn't care about them even an iota. I know it is too much too ask of "stupid" people, but just look at his appointees. Name one who has been a champion of the working class people ever in their lives. Actually most of them are just the opposite.
Also, can't understand how people are ok with a Russian hack as president. Without any other reasonable explanations available, the only one that seems plausible is that people are stupid.
@Tiffany - Thanks for the excellent responses. Though I'm quite sure the nuances you are trying to point out are beyond the comprehension of most Trump supporters (here and else where). If they could, they would have seen it long time back.
Also, to all those claiming how Americans are loved world over, you need to understand this. Just like Trump supporters here, there are people in all countries who are ignorant, ill-informed, blow-hard...
@Tiffany - Thanks for the excellent responses. Though I'm quite sure the nuances you are trying to point out are beyond the comprehension of most Trump supporters (here and else where). If they could, they would have seen it long time back.
Also, to all those claiming how Americans are loved world over, you need to understand this. Just like Trump supporters here, there are people in all countries who are ignorant, ill-informed, blow-hard nationalists (in other words right wingers). These are the people who mostly hate Americans because they don't have the ability to understand that the actions of the US government doesn't necessarily represent all its citizens. It is exactly the same way, how most Trump supporters hate whole countries.
And similarly there are liberals all over the world who do understand these nuances and hence don't hate all Americans.
I find it comical that people who hate the idea that a liberal Republican got elected POTUS now consider this PAUSE in immigration from 7 failed states to be some how a form of xenophobia and fascism. When in fact this list of 7 countries comes from the "Terrorist Travel Prevention Act of 2015", a bipartisan bill passed during the Obama administration. Nor is anyone mentioning that Obama banned anyone coming in from Iraq for...
I find it comical that people who hate the idea that a liberal Republican got elected POTUS now consider this PAUSE in immigration from 7 failed states to be some how a form of xenophobia and fascism. When in fact this list of 7 countries comes from the "Terrorist Travel Prevention Act of 2015", a bipartisan bill passed during the Obama administration. Nor is anyone mentioning that Obama banned anyone coming in from Iraq for a full 6 months in 2011.
The other comical idea is that all of the world hates us. Yes, all of these people trying to immigrate here, some legally, some illegally, are all doing so because they hate the US. I guess they, like Kevin, want to move here so they too can hang their heads in shame. ;)
If the US was to start handing out Green Cards like candy, probably half a Billion people would move here next month. But we can't do that because (1) we can't afford to support that many new people, and (2) while 99% of those people would come here because they like the US, but 1% truly do hate us and would come here to destroy us. We have enough of a problem with people already here becoming radicalized, without letting in people who have been trained in Terrorism by al Qaeda and ISIS.
"The constitution is not a suicide pact". This was said in various formulations by Thomas Jefferson and Abraham Lincoln, and stated in a couple of Supreme Court decisions. Wikipedia has a post with that title giving the details.
@ Robert Hansen -- No one (other than Breitbart) is mentioning Obama doing the same thing because it's not the same. Nuance matters, and there is a profound difference between slowing the processing of refugee applications due to a specific concern about inadequate vetting, and banning people based on their national origin.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2017/jan/30/donald-trump/why-comparing-trumps-and-obamas-immigration-restri/
Reasonable people can disagree on the merits of various actions, and to do so is healthy and necessary for a democracy. But...
@ Robert Hansen -- No one (other than Breitbart) is mentioning Obama doing the same thing because it's not the same. Nuance matters, and there is a profound difference between slowing the processing of refugee applications due to a specific concern about inadequate vetting, and banning people based on their national origin.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2017/jan/30/donald-trump/why-comparing-trumps-and-obamas-immigration-restri/
Reasonable people can disagree on the merits of various actions, and to do so is healthy and necessary for a democracy. But creating false equivalencies doesn't help anyone's cause.
@Tiffany fair enough on executive orders. I never really looked into those numbers just what people would say about it. I agree congress should pass laws but happens when congress does nothing ever. Time to adopt 3-4 parties, get rid of term limits, etc which will not happen as the system is rigged. What I should have added though is I am 100 percent behind immigrants, especially ones who assisted US soldiers, coming to this...
@Tiffany fair enough on executive orders. I never really looked into those numbers just what people would say about it. I agree congress should pass laws but happens when congress does nothing ever. Time to adopt 3-4 parties, get rid of term limits, etc which will not happen as the system is rigged. What I should have added though is I am 100 percent behind immigrants, especially ones who assisted US soldiers, coming to this country from those 7 countries. So my last comment should have added. I would gladly take those immigrants and give them the place of those who don't want to be here.
@IV. That's odd as my laptop was confiscated and searched/read/emails poured through four years ago at the Blaine crossing into Canada by Canadian authorities.
I have said this multiple times. I really do think one of the major reasons many countries hate the US is because we are like the Yankees. Everyone hates us cause we are number one ( no need to post a response of typical American arragonce on this one, I know I am being that way). On a more serious note, I too cannot believe the comments on both sides. Clearly trump won because the...
I have said this multiple times. I really do think one of the major reasons many countries hate the US is because we are like the Yankees. Everyone hates us cause we are number one ( no need to post a response of typical American arragonce on this one, I know I am being that way). On a more serious note, I too cannot believe the comments on both sides. Clearly trump won because the liberal elite didn't think about working class Americans, and rather than addressing that they are just calling them stupid. Conservatives have forgot one of the things that has made this country great, religious freedoms and immigration. Both sides here are crazy, why was it okay for Obama to make the most executive orders and now it's not okay for Trump. Just like it's okay for free speech, but only if it supports my political party. But I do love what Tom said. Regardless of who is President don't be ashamed of where you are from. That being said don't go overseas wearing some giant American flag USA number 1 type shirt, saw that super weird. But if your shame is so great then go through the process of renouncing your citizenship. Because why would you want to be part of a country you are so ashamed to be associated with?
@ Charles S -- Not disagreeing with you, but want to inject some facts regarding Executive Orders because I keep hearing that Obama had the "most" and it seems people don't know the actual numbers. I don't personally like the concept regardless of who is President, but Obama issued fewer than the GWB or Clinton, and fewer on average per year than anyone since Cleveland: http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/data/orders.php
@malithus - "There are only three reasons to support 45’s actions…greed, dogmatic purity, and stupidity."
Very well put. Unfortunately, all 3 abound in US lot more than I had imagined.
@Tom - "In a Kingdom now in the Middle East. Simply put – they LOVE America! They LOVE Americans. (Was in Europe last week, same thing. Asia two weeks ago, yup, USA #1.) Unlike some Americans, the rest of the world can separate our Presidents/Congress from us. Anyone who says different, simply has not travelled much internationally."
This comment shows how a lot of (not all) Americans are so ignorant. Just because you met some...
@Tom - "In a Kingdom now in the Middle East. Simply put – they LOVE America! They LOVE Americans. (Was in Europe last week, same thing. Asia two weeks ago, yup, USA #1.) Unlike some Americans, the rest of the world can separate our Presidents/Congress from us. Anyone who says different, simply has not travelled much internationally."
This comment shows how a lot of (not all) Americans are so ignorant. Just because you met some people in these places who told you that they "love" Americans you have concluded everyone in the world loves us :-).
You got to realize that the minuscule sample of people you have met does not in anyway represent the populations of the countries you have visited.
Hahahahahaha Tom
Most of us in europe do not love america. It is an object of ridicule.
We do want your credit card bonuses though.
One of the primary reasons the original travel ban would have likely been ruled unconstitutional was its preference to prioritize visa processing for non-Muslim citizens of the seven named countries. News did not cover that aspect of the original travel ban in much detail.
Let's see if that religious differentiation is part of the next travel ban.
@Kevin - Speak for yourself. You do NOT speak for Americans. I am proud to be American, not ashamed. I am not thrilled with our President, but like it or not, he IS our president. So Kevin, you can head your head in shame, we Americans will not.
@callum - I do agree that if I had family or friends in those countries, I would have done everything possible to get them here and keep...
@Kevin - Speak for yourself. You do NOT speak for Americans. I am proud to be American, not ashamed. I am not thrilled with our President, but like it or not, he IS our president. So Kevin, you can head your head in shame, we Americans will not.
@callum - I do agree that if I had family or friends in those countries, I would have done everything possible to get them here and keep them here already. The immigration 'advice' of a travel blogger borders on comical.
@Seriously - Feel free to leave the USA if you are worried.
In a Kingdom now in the Middle East. Simply put - they LOVE America! They LOVE Americans. (Was in Europe last week, same thing. Asia two weeks ago, yup, USA #1.) Unlike some Americans, the rest of the world can separate our Presidents/Congress from us. Anyone who says different, simply has not travelled much internationally.
I know Callum. Hes a dick on the internet and an ass in real-life.
Welcome to the banana republic of the usa
And yet William Y., most Americans do hang their heads in shame, deeply embarrassed by people like you, who put their personal enrichment and the illusion of safety ahead of basic humanity.
There are only three reasons to support 45's actions...greed, dogmatic purity, and stupidity.
William Y. - I'm more scared of "you people" going on yet another mass killing spree with automatic weapons...
I think you've identified some common ground there though, well done. I would also prefer to live in the US than in Iraq. I have a feeling many people would agree with that.
Marcus - How does stating the obvious make me a bad person? If it didn't occur to these people that the temporary suspension of a ban on them travelling to the US was temporary, they're idiots.
I don't really believe any of them can be that stupid, I was merely pointing out the idea of giving them that advice was incredibly pointless.
Shame on you america this will create only more global hate towards you pathetic souls.
It will only unleash further hate crimes and attacks just what ISIS want another excuse!
Trump has handed them another reason.
I never though I would see the day where so many people ( on both sides of the political spectrum ) would act like such imbeciles.
The current State Dept, DHS etc. is being run by Xenophobics and Bigots and Tyrants. The USA we all know if "coming to end in front of our own eyes".
We intelligent and moral common people need to stand up to Tyrants or dark days will follow soon.
The more Tyrants want power and spread fear/lies/misinformation, the more we need to protest and standup against the Bully.
@williamy you must be suffering from jetlag from being at the Sweden attack last night
FU
>The D.C. cluster-fvck continues. We Americans hang our heads in shame.
And some of us are proud we're having a President that fulfills his promises. The more you people slander us and beat us up at your violent protests, the more we'll stand with our President.
I prefer America over those 7 countries. And I don't want any of their citizens here. At all. They're shitholes for a reason.
I have already put in my name to join the SS. I will defend this fatherland from the immigrant vermin. Only the purest of pure white blondes will occupy the top position in the society.
Heil trump.
In other news, trump has spent more money in security in a month than Obama did in a whOle year. Hypocritical republiturds say nothing to keep dictator trump in check.
In other other news because...
I have already put in my name to join the SS. I will defend this fatherland from the immigrant vermin. Only the purest of pure white blondes will occupy the top position in the society.
Heil trump.
In other news, trump has spent more money in security in a month than Obama did in a whOle year. Hypocritical republiturds say nothing to keep dictator trump in check.
In other other news because America won't let some Muslims in, so they will join the terrorists. If that is their flimsy reason then they were already terrorists. Liberals stop assuming the rest of us are idiots. Haven't learned anything since the gore fiasco. You deserve everything you are getting.
In the court defense, the government offered to allow people with valid visas and had previous valid visit to the U.S. and valid exit, may be permitted to enter.
@Stuart,
The US was the first country to demand access to people's laptops and smartphones. Other countries just followed.
I would never defend this order or anything remote to it. However, again, not justifying it and find it appalling, but Canada, Germany and other countries have routinely gone into people's laptops and emails at border patrol stations globally. In one instance I was held in an office in Blaine, WA while headed to Vancouver for meetings for over two hours as Canadian officers took my phone and laptop and asked for access so as...
I would never defend this order or anything remote to it. However, again, not justifying it and find it appalling, but Canada, Germany and other countries have routinely gone into people's laptops and emails at border patrol stations globally. In one instance I was held in an office in Blaine, WA while headed to Vancouver for meetings for over two hours as Canadian officers took my phone and laptop and asked for access so as to review my work and correspondence. As well, all was done out of site and without my supervision. While on the one hand I would never support this in the U.S. or any country, we should also not be so held in shame that we are the only ones doing it.
Cullum is either simply not a nice person or having a bad day...
"Ultimately, if you, or your family members, are from one of the seven countries listed and intend to travel to the U.S. in the near-future on currently-issued visas, I would strongly consider moving your trip up if you can."
Is that not INCREDIBLY obvious to absolutely anyone? If you're a national of those countries, want to get into the US any time soon and haven't brought forward the trip already then you're a bit of...
"Ultimately, if you, or your family members, are from one of the seven countries listed and intend to travel to the U.S. in the near-future on currently-issued visas, I would strongly consider moving your trip up if you can."
Is that not INCREDIBLY obvious to absolutely anyone? If you're a national of those countries, want to get into the US any time soon and haven't brought forward the trip already then you're a bit of an idiot... In fact, if you haven't already entered the US now (and have been physically able to) then you're a bit of an idiot.
Yea CBP has been quite aggressive about going into people's phones even of american citizens and not just the ones you read about in the media either, this includes people crossing land borders from canada.
CBP should also be expected to ask for email/social media logins, and access to locked phones and laptops.
Has been happening, and wouldn't be surprised if it became more widespread.
The D.C. cluster-fvck continues. We Americans hang our heads in shame.
It would appear this is all for show.