There’s an interesting petition online that I think is worth discussing, since I’ve heard this topic brought up many times before.
In this post:
Flight attendants only get paid when the door closes
There’s a change.org petition that now has over 100,000 signatures, calling for flight attendants to be paid during boarding. Essentially flight attendants are only paid their full hourly rate once the aircraft door closes, even though they work hard during boarding (and arguably boarding is the most stressful phase of the flight). At least that’s the case in the United States, as in other parts of the world the compensation structure differs.
Here’s what the petition says:
Flight Attendants are currently not paid for boarding. They are paid what is deemed as “hourly rate,” which is below minimum wage. Until the door is closed and the brakes are lifted flight attendants are paid on average $2.00/hour. Even though they are required by their company and the FAA to be there and perform crucial job-related safety and customer service duties. Airlines are taking more and more of Flight Attendants’ time. In the past decade, boarding has gone from 30, to 35, to 40 minutes. These decisions were made by management and no flight attendants were consulted during this decision-making process.
Please join flight attendants in asking for fair and liveable wages for the work they perform and the sacrifices they make.
The petition is addressed at the president of the United States, and it’s not even airline specific, but rather just calls for all flight attendants to be paid during boarding. It very much feels like a “someone needs to do something” request.
My take on the request for pay during boarding
Regardless of whether or not there’s a petition, I think this is an interesting topic to discuss.
First of all, flight attendants work hard, deal with so many jerks, and make lots of personal sacrifices. Personally I think they’re way underpaid, yet somehow every time airlines hire, they get endless applicants. There’s obviously still some allure and glamour to becoming a flight attendant, even if it might not appear so from the outside.
Next, it seems pretty obvious that this is a bargaining technique to try to increase overall pay. That’s fair enough, but also unrealistic. If it’s important for flight attendants to be paid for boarding, this should be a priority during contract negotiations. Odds are that overall hourly pay rates would be lowered to facilitate that. I can’t wrap my head around why this isn’t a central point of negotiation when airline contracts are up for renewal?
Flight attendants typically only get somewhere around 100 flight hours per month, but that doesn’t mean they’re just working 100 hours — they work a lot more than that. Similarly, everyone’s job involves some level of time commitment while not “on the clock.”
Conversely, flight attendants are sometimes paid when they’re not actively working. For example, on long haul flights, flight attendants get paid even during their rest period, which on an ultra long haul flight could be several hours.
Lastly, while I think the concept of wanting to be paid during boarding is fair, what is it with some flight attendants literally informing passengers that they’re not being paid during boarding? Over the years I can’t count the number of flight attendants I’ve heard tell passengers during boarding that “well I’m not even being paid right now, so…” Oddly it always seems to be the less great flight attendants who make this a direct passenger issue.
Bottom line
There’s a new change.org petition requesting that flight attendants be paid during boarding. Most airlines in the United States only start paying flight attendants the hourly rate once the door closes, meaning they’re only paid a very small amount during boarding, even though it’s one of the most stressful parts of the job.
I of course understand the general frustration with not being paid during boarding, but you can’t get paid your much higher pay rate unless the boarding process gets completed. I think it’s reasonable for flight attendants to request to be paid during boarding. I just think this should be a central point of contract negotiations, rather than something addressed at the president of the United States.
What’s your take on flight attendants working for “free” during boarding?
Only delta is paid for boarding get informed flight 42 years. Why would anyone work for free
Much higher wages? I’m a first year flight attendant and will make about $19,000 this year at a national main line. They don’t explain how you’re paid during the interview process. The rate is $20/hr btw.. and that’s just for the hours we’re paid for. It’s a revolving door.
Even tho I don't fly much, I still think they should be paid while folks are boarding the plane and exiting, until their job from that flight has been completed
As a customer service agent, I feel FAs need to be paid during boarding. This idea in America that people should work for free is obnoxiously wrong. FAs perform critical safety checks onboard, prior to boarding, and given this responsibility, they need to be paid. To pay someone $2-3 an hour is more ridiculous than my hourly rate of $15.33 per hour.
Former FA Guest, I have no idea when you used to work as a flight attendant or for what airline. I am currently an American Airlines Flight Attendant and we DO NOT get paid for boarding, airport time, delays, getting to the airport 1 hour to 1.15 hrs earlier, or to the airplane 35-50 mins earlier, or for connection time between flights at airports at all!!! Unless you are talking about the 2$-3.75$ per hour...
Former FA Guest, I have no idea when you used to work as a flight attendant or for what airline. I am currently an American Airlines Flight Attendant and we DO NOT get paid for boarding, airport time, delays, getting to the airport 1 hour to 1.15 hrs earlier, or to the airplane 35-50 mins earlier, or for connection time between flights at airports at all!!! Unless you are talking about the 2$-3.75$ per hour per diem (I don't know exactly what amount we are at right now but it is along the lines of that amount, and it is the same for pilots, although at least pilots can make up for that in flight with their well deserved higher salaries). Those few dollars an hour from sign-in till sign-out don't even add up to proper meal money during our trips. So please refrain from talking about subjects that you are clearly very outdated about. Thanks Roger Ludwig for acknowledging we should get paid. Boarding is one of the busiest most important times in the day or night of an FA. We take your/our safety very seriously, so apart from checking for functioning safety equipment, we are observing for suspicious behavior or substances, greeting passengers, crushing ice, counting meals, organizing the galleys for food and beverages, setting up the entertainment system, adjusting the lighting, the temperature, assisting with overhead bins' space, greeting people, ensuring seats are correct, dealing with needs of passengers, assisting those that have special needs.... I can keep going. They even expect for us to serve pre-departure drinks, so cocktail waitressing for free!!!
I never knew they were not. Of course they should be paid. What if they are hurt during the process? Are they insured while not being paid? Do they have to comply with the company behavioral expectations? Could they be terminated for not meeting airline expectations? Yes,yes,yes yes - they should be paid.
Yes,
We can still get fired anytime in uniform- even if we’re not on duty.
It’s a great job though - 32 years for me!!
I find a lot of my colleagues take themselves too seriously.
No wonder airlines have staffing problems. This explains a lot. What cheapskates !
Flight Attendants may not realize what they are asking for.
On average, flight attendants work 15 days a month. Assuming 2-3 legs a day and an average hour in boarding and deplaning for each leg, that’s 30-45 more paid hours per month.
The top rate at American Airlines is $68.25/hour. With a current average of 80 hours/month, the monthly pay is $5460. If the 30 hours was added in at that rate, it...
Flight Attendants may not realize what they are asking for.
On average, flight attendants work 15 days a month. Assuming 2-3 legs a day and an average hour in boarding and deplaning for each leg, that’s 30-45 more paid hours per month.
The top rate at American Airlines is $68.25/hour. With a current average of 80 hours/month, the monthly pay is $5460. If the 30 hours was added in at that rate, it would add ~$2000. Or ~$22,000/year increase per flight attendant.
What would happen is the top hourly rate would be dropped to ~$50/hr so that the 110 hours would come out to $5500/month.
It would be too much of a competitive disadvantage for AA to pay $22k/year more per flight attendant if competitors are sticking with the current pay method.
The union would negotiate a pay raise based on the new pay system, not the old system, with its $50 top hourly pay rate.
It is not a red herring. We get per diem, like most of the world, when traveling on bus and on layover. We have a million ways of calculating our pay, so to say we’re paid for sitting is also misleading. We may get paid with a formula that includes duty period, if it’s longer than actual flight time. It’s incredibly complicated to write in a comment, so I won’t, but saying we are paid...
It is not a red herring. We get per diem, like most of the world, when traveling on bus and on layover. We have a million ways of calculating our pay, so to say we’re paid for sitting is also misleading. We may get paid with a formula that includes duty period, if it’s longer than actual flight time. It’s incredibly complicated to write in a comment, so I won’t, but saying we are paid for boarding is incorrect. I fly all Europe from U.S.and my break is usually about 1:30, which we didn’t get at all until maybe mid 90s and it’s evolved, yes, because of a contract. My airline merged and I no longer have a union so we have no way to negotiate anything now. As to why it hasn’t ever been accomplished, it’s mainly because managements won’t budge and we’ve always put other items ahead of it. I’d never complain to passengers about it. The petition is good to let people know, but I don’t think it’ll ever change.
if you're on the clock you should be getting paid from the moment you clock in, end of
I am a flight Attendant and can tell you we are underpaid at 18.00 dollars an hour. We literally expose ourselves to all the crazy people that we carry on board. We have delighted passengers and very nice and comprehensive ones too. We start working when we sign in at the crew room, have to do a briefing with the crew, then go pass all the security checks, get into the aircraft, do our security...
I am a flight Attendant and can tell you we are underpaid at 18.00 dollars an hour. We literally expose ourselves to all the crazy people that we carry on board. We have delighted passengers and very nice and comprehensive ones too. We start working when we sign in at the crew room, have to do a briefing with the crew, then go pass all the security checks, get into the aircraft, do our security checks, prepare the galleys for service and then board....we are well underpaid.
Then get a job that pays more if you're dissatisfied.
Awww wow well look at you… just being a patriarchal myopic bigot. “Just get another job if you dont like this on…”
—- “Dont bother fighting to make things better so you can enjoy the job you originally signed up for. QUIT and make it someone elses problem. Trickle Down Economics RULE!!” - Says Chris
HOW ABOUT PAY HUMANS THEIR FAIR WAGES ALL THE TIME. Regardless of your deeeply biased & flawed moral code that says.
First, the article states flight attendants get paid while resting (on the airplane). Silly argument for f/a s not getting paid to board and deplane passengers. I have been employed as an oil refinery operator and as a cargo handler for a major airline and many times I was not actively working but still at the refinery or airport. I still got paid for every minute the company required me to be at the work site.
Flight attendandants HAVE TO BE PAID the minute they REPORT TO WORK ON THE AIR PLANE BEFORE PASSENGERS ARE STARTING TO BOARD(equivalant to "CLOCKING IN" of HOURLEY EMPLOYEES). THEY ARE SEEING TO IT THAT WE BOARD THE PLANE IN AN ORDERLY, SAFE, AND TIMELY MANNER !!!!
They are getting paid server pay of $2.35 an hour til the planes takes off but boarding and getting 159 or more people settle and ready is the hardest part with the lowest pay. Servers however are paid $2.35 per hour + tips = $minimum wage (guaranteed) or $higher. These flight attendants are not getting tips on top of their $2.35 for boarding and unboarding. So they are being forced to work for a few...
They are getting paid server pay of $2.35 an hour til the planes takes off but boarding and getting 159 or more people settle and ready is the hardest part with the lowest pay. Servers however are paid $2.35 per hour + tips = $minimum wage (guaranteed) or $higher. These flight attendants are not getting tips on top of their $2.35 for boarding and unboarding. So they are being forced to work for a few hours every flight for 1/3 of minimum wage of $7.25. ISNT THAT ILLEGAL in the USA. It's called Fair Standards Labors Act
Just a little feedback from a 43 year career veteran. Not all flight attendants are Union. So there would be no negotiations. If you fly a 6 day trip you are paid flight time not time away from base. This equates to 125.05 away from home. You are paid expense per dium. You are given 50 hours a year in Sick/PPT a year that would equate to approximately 2 sick calls a year. If you...
Just a little feedback from a 43 year career veteran. Not all flight attendants are Union. So there would be no negotiations. If you fly a 6 day trip you are paid flight time not time away from base. This equates to 125.05 away from home. You are paid expense per dium. You are given 50 hours a year in Sick/PPT a year that would equate to approximately 2 sick calls a year. If you work 4 legs a day you board 4 flights that you aren't paid for. You aren't paid on your layovers only per dium. We do cpr,difuse difficult situations that escalate, lightning strikes, hit animals on take off and landing, decompressions,fight fires, try to assist if someone is having a heart attack,seizure,stroke or die, numerous emergency landings,the mile high masterbaters, sex traffickers, clean vomit and feces, help unaccompanied minors, get physically attacked by a customer on PCP,and serve food and beverages, just to name a few I have personally attended to. I love my job!! I think we should be paid for boarding. I am a trained safety professionals professional that treats everyone with love. Safe travels.
Thank you ✈️
The reason why this petition is happening and addressed to the president for change is that we have been fighting for this to happen with our pay negotiations for many years. Airlines have been taken to court over this time abd time again and they refuse to budge. It takes one airline to do it first in order for the others to follow and create change. During boarding I had to take care of a...
The reason why this petition is happening and addressed to the president for change is that we have been fighting for this to happen with our pay negotiations for many years. Airlines have been taken to court over this time abd time again and they refuse to budge. It takes one airline to do it first in order for the others to follow and create change. During boarding I had to take care of a medical emergency and I did not get paid for that. The only pay we get outside of flying is Perdiem, which is less than two dollars an hour, to go towards our food during the trips.
If the flight attendants are REQUIRED to be there and are performing a "work function", they should be compensated at whatever their hourly rate is. This goes for ALL MANDATORY training as well.
We finally get paid for recurrent training.
We get paid 6 hours at hourly pay during a 10 hour class - yes, they aren’t paying us for all 10 hours, but at least we finally started getting paid.
The airlines should comply with usual labor laws.
The airlines are abusing attendants by not giving them full pay while boarding and while waiting for delayed flights as they are required to be at the location.
And attendants abuse passengers....so it all works out in the end.
This guy
Yes paid them ...they always are so nice and helpful and the Airline makes alot of money on us .
Tell me, would you show up at work two hours to three hours early and not get paid for it? Would you stay after two or three hours and not get paid? Would you sit around in a room doing nothing because some thing is delayed and you can’t do your job and not get paid for it? All of those answers would be no I’m guessing. We do not negotiate it in our contract...
Tell me, would you show up at work two hours to three hours early and not get paid for it? Would you stay after two or three hours and not get paid? Would you sit around in a room doing nothing because some thing is delayed and you can’t do your job and not get paid for it? All of those answers would be no I’m guessing. We do not negotiate it in our contract because it is an old act of the railways. It doesn’t even come up because it is industry wide. It needs to. I’m sick of working 14 to 16 hour days away from my family and getting paid for 5 to 7 hours.
We should start be paid from the report time usually 45 minutes before , the time you check in , we should be paid.
Flight attendants are paid 4 hours if they have a 8 hour “sit” in the crew room. They are not paid for boarding or deplaning and pre-Covid that meant giving drinks to first class,helping with luggage,announcements, pre-flight inspections, and countless other duties. Then when the door closes we get our hourly. If you think the 2 dollar an hour per diem is alot then think again. Many FAs have to pack there own meals, go...
Flight attendants are paid 4 hours if they have a 8 hour “sit” in the crew room. They are not paid for boarding or deplaning and pre-Covid that meant giving drinks to first class,helping with luggage,announcements, pre-flight inspections, and countless other duties. Then when the door closes we get our hourly. If you think the 2 dollar an hour per diem is alot then think again. Many FAs have to pack there own meals, go up to 14 hour days to get paid for 7. We out paid twice a month. One check is just 1/2 of our guarantee and the other half has our per diem on it.
Flight Attendants risk there lives to save passengers. We spend about 1/2 an hour on service and six weeks learning about safety protocols,cpr and self defense.
No one should work for free. That’s why it’s called work. The end.
There is so much misinformation here.
We are not paid during boarding because we are still under the laws if a railway contract written in the 1930s, not because of our unions. So yes, a petition could help
And we are already extremely underpaid so we are not asking for our pay rate to drop and for us to get paid for our time. We need to be paid AT LEAST the same...
There is so much misinformation here.
We are not paid during boarding because we are still under the laws if a railway contract written in the 1930s, not because of our unions. So yes, a petition could help
And we are already extremely underpaid so we are not asking for our pay rate to drop and for us to get paid for our time. We need to be paid AT LEAST the same rate for the time we work. The other day I was required to be checked in at work for 10 hours and ended up working 10.5. I got $17 per hour that day and I am 3 years in. I am at an $6 higher rate than new flight attendants in my company, who would have been paid $14/hr that day. i work for one of the top 7 in the usa. This is not a minimum wage job and we should not be paid as such.
We need your support
Delta Airlines F/A's are the only non-union group that receive boarding pay . The rate per boarding is based on seniority say for example if you board a flight 10 times in a 3 day rotation at 20.00 per boarding that would be 200.00 in additional pay. Delta announced that the carrier would begin paying its 26,000 flight attendants during boarding at half their usual hourly rate. “Our new boarding pay component – an industry...
Delta Airlines F/A's are the only non-union group that receive boarding pay . The rate per boarding is based on seniority say for example if you board a flight 10 times in a 3 day rotation at 20.00 per boarding that would be 200.00 in additional pay. Delta announced that the carrier would begin paying its 26,000 flight attendants during boarding at half their usual hourly rate. “Our new boarding pay component – an industry first – further recognizes how important your role is on board to ensuring a welcoming, safe and on-time start to each flight and for each customer,” the company said in a memo flight attendants.
Dear OMAT:
As a working flight attendant(regional) I applaud your effort to at least get a conversation going about this, petition or no.
Boarding is without doubt the most stressful time of the entire flight process. There is pressure to get everyone seated and their belonging stowed in as little time possible, and if the arriving aircraft to be used is late you are expected to still depart as scheduled. I often get...
Dear OMAT:
As a working flight attendant(regional) I applaud your effort to at least get a conversation going about this, petition or no.
Boarding is without doubt the most stressful time of the entire flight process. There is pressure to get everyone seated and their belonging stowed in as little time possible, and if the arriving aircraft to be used is late you are expected to still depart as scheduled. I often get as little as 25 minutes between departures to turn - an unfair and unreasonable scheduling, but done with the ultimate goal of profit for the airline.
So: the company benefits from my unpaid labor on a regular basis. To the comments who speak otherwise, I would say you have not been in my position or you worked in a very different airline world than it is today. Turn and Burn is THE way of this incarnation.
I would welcome any effort to compensate myself and my colleagues more fairly, and we can start with boarding.
They aren’t, the union negotiated nothing of the sort. The “former FA” is blowing hot air or is stating an old airline rule.
Of course they should Get paid! They are working! This is wrong on so many levels!
This is a very intense part of my job. This is where I received 2 of my surgery requiring injuries. I support flight pay during boarding.
So....You're one of those perpetual workman's comp cases.....
Of course they should be paid during boarding. It is the most stressful and they do a lot of work during that time. We need to stop this slave labor shit in the US.
I have been a flight attendant for 32 years and have had sweat pouring down my face trying to help customers find luggage space and get them seated so the entry door could be closed on time.
If not, the delay is blamed on the flight attendants and reported to the company.
We finally reached $2.10 hourly for time away from base after the door closes and on overnights, but not during boarding.
Pay should start after check in, but it does not
I thought the flight attendants stated that they were not there for primarily passenger comfort but their safety, That being said, the safety of the passenger is dramatically decreased when the doors of the aircraft are open.
So true! In this case, flight attendants should just be required to show up right before door closure and passengers can just navigate a disastrous boarding and deplaning all on their own. Surely they’re capable of doing that without causing any delays. Oh! And the preflight safety checks of medical and safety equipment flight attendants are required to complete before door closure.. who needs them!? Genius comment Jeffrey Chang!
Hey Jeffrey,
Everyone I know would spring into action to help someone in need until paramedics get to the plane to take over.
I can see your point though-
Fortunately, most of the work is service related, but going through safety training every year for 32 years has enabled me to evacuate a plane with my eyes closed / I think - I hope
No wonder so many planes are being diverted from their original routes to other airports, before reaching final destination. For all we know and can imagine, crew members might just be trying to extend time so they can be paid. What's next?
This is so unfair and it is also a disadvantage to flight crew. They should be paid from the time they set foot unto the aircraft. Doesn't matter how long that plane...
No wonder so many planes are being diverted from their original routes to other airports, before reaching final destination. For all we know and can imagine, crew members might just be trying to extend time so they can be paid. What's next?
This is so unfair and it is also a disadvantage to flight crew. They should be paid from the time they set foot unto the aircraft. Doesn't matter how long that plane remains on the ground they should be paid for the time. Also when the plane reaches it's destination, there should be at least a 2 hour time allotted to them to disembark.
they should be paid for boarding time and stan by between 2 flight it look easy to be an attendant but they have to deal with all kinds of people
air line makes millions a year thanks to the attendant so give them what they deserve
Work= getting paid. That's pretty petty for a corporate or union to argue and withhold such a minimal amount
Yes, they should be paid during boarding. Yes, this should be accomplished by their union during contract negotiations.
If they are required to be there then they MUST get paid. They help people to their seats, they put luggage away etc. I pay enough $$$ for my plane tickets the airlines can afford to pay them.
I am not an attendant but I agree with all of the wonderful groups of people that protect people they don't even know. that first boarding is the part where they make sure people are who they say they are. "PAY THEM" what they deserve AIR CANADA wake up these people are very important to us Canadians!!!
NO ONE should EVER have to work for FREE!!! It’s just NOT fair! It’s time to change a long overdue old Policy.
Flight attendants AND pilots are not paid flight hour rates during boarding. Airline crews contracts (if they’re unionized) fall under the Railway Labor Act. In the beginning of commercial flying the terms were set that flight pay begins and ends when brakes are lifted and set. Companies do not want either group to be paid flight hour rates during other times as it would be very expensive, however as a flight attendant I believe flight...
Flight attendants AND pilots are not paid flight hour rates during boarding. Airline crews contracts (if they’re unionized) fall under the Railway Labor Act. In the beginning of commercial flying the terms were set that flight pay begins and ends when brakes are lifted and set. Companies do not want either group to be paid flight hour rates during other times as it would be very expensive, however as a flight attendant I believe flight hour compensation should begin at sign in time. We are paid our per diem rates at all other times while on duty even when sitting around for hours between flights, delays, etc. Some crews are on duty for 14 hours but only receive 6-7 hours of flight pay.
The moment you set foot on that aircraft you should be on the clock...and as for the fatty getting booted...bad move for airline...they paid outrageous rates for privacy which they were denied..resulting in not being able to do their job..for the queen no less...airline is in trouble : (
Comment to the former FA who said we get paid on layoyovers, while on the bus, in our hotel rooms, etc. my question to you, how former are you? You must be over 70
What she should have said is that we are paid $2.00 an hour when on duty but not actually flying.
Not nearly enough for the boarding process though.
Of course flight attendant should be paid at all times they entered to an aircraft!! It’s fair though and it should be law!!
Pilots should get paid for preflight!
In the US, Flight crew are governed under the Railway Labor Act, which differs from other labor laws. The petition is likely aimed at lawmakers to amend the RLA to force employers to pay us for time we “work” for free, since unions have been unable to do it through contracts.
What your article doesn't address is that when there are delays are and you are waiting for your plane to arrive 8 hours later than scheduled. You end up working a 10 hour day and only get 2 hours of pay. It happens alot more than you would think.
Flight Attendants pay structure consists of 4 calculations: 1) minimum daily guarantee 2) daily calculation using all hours on duty from report to release (including briefing, boarding and sit time) 3) trip calculation based on all hours report to release including briefing, boarding, sit, and layover/sleep time or 4) flight pay for actual hours flown. FAs are paid the greater of these 4. While flight hours are used as a unit of pay, the calculations...
Flight Attendants pay structure consists of 4 calculations: 1) minimum daily guarantee 2) daily calculation using all hours on duty from report to release (including briefing, boarding and sit time) 3) trip calculation based on all hours report to release including briefing, boarding, sit, and layover/sleep time or 4) flight pay for actual hours flown. FAs are paid the greater of these 4. While flight hours are used as a unit of pay, the calculations consider all time on duty (and on time away from base) in two of the four ways to determine pay. Pay ultimately covers all work from report to release by applying the measurement that produces the most.
From personal experience the pay does not cover all work from report to release.
I, being a union person of 50 years, think it's a contractual issue that should be addressed. However if administration is unwilling to work at a reasonable outcome then it needs to go higher. Providing for flight comfort, safety and confidence is imperative in airline success. Flight attendants should be paid "boarding" duties. Think about it; a free for all getting seated, no order whatsoever in luggage/carry-on, seats disputed, passengers moving all over to get...
I, being a union person of 50 years, think it's a contractual issue that should be addressed. However if administration is unwilling to work at a reasonable outcome then it needs to go higher. Providing for flight comfort, safety and confidence is imperative in airline success. Flight attendants should be paid "boarding" duties. Think about it; a free for all getting seated, no order whatsoever in luggage/carry-on, seats disputed, passengers moving all over to get priority places. I agree it should have been addressed and exposing it publicly as a "poor me" situation often yields unwanted reaction. Do it right, trying not to affect air fares (airlines say well if we have to pay attendants for boarding its an incurred cost we'll have to pass on to consumer).
As a F/A, when you add all the compensation, flight attendants can't complain. Yes, boarding is stressful, but adding the compensation package to a regular 9 to 5. You are better off as a being a F/A. Here and actual number from a low-cost airline. Last month's pay for me 125hr and 14 days off months 70hr @ $56.13 = $ 3928.01 + 55hr @/$76= $4180. Total $8109.00 This is not counting time $2.35 time...
As a F/A, when you add all the compensation, flight attendants can't complain. Yes, boarding is stressful, but adding the compensation package to a regular 9 to 5. You are better off as a being a F/A. Here and actual number from a low-cost airline. Last month's pay for me 125hr and 14 days off months 70hr @ $56.13 = $ 3928.01 + 55hr @/$76= $4180. Total $8109.00 This is not counting time $2.35 time away from the base until you get back even when you sleep; this could be a total of 325hr. Plus hotel pay and transportation. And I get almost 13 to 14/days off for the month. Plus, free flight benefits anywhere in the world for myself and my family with every airline. Pay just tax. I think entitlement is was killing this country. And you could work up to 150hr some airlines allow you to work as many as 200./the 100hr rules is for a pilots fatigue rule under FAR.
Just curious, how are you getting 56.13/hr for part of your pay and 76.00/hr for the other hrs flown? Is this International pay? Hotel pay and transportation??? For a low cost carrier, your per diem is higher than some majors
As a FA working in an Asian airline..and have worked for a few others its incredible that the American FAs dont get paid till doors closed.No wonder you dont see the American FAs in the cabins or at the door to greet passengers.Its beyond ridiculous.
At every airline i worked for we are paid the moment our reporting/briefing time until half an hour the aircraft chocks on.
Yes they should be paid from clock in to clock out time which should include immigration and such. Your statement that they aren’t working during rest periods is false, they are there for emergencies. That’s like saying cops aren’t working unless they are arresting someone.
They should be paid as they arrive to work from their home until they leave to go home. Wow!! That's terrible not being paid when not in flight. I see them working and dealing with people before take off and after landing .
So many comments on here
Yes should be paid
They should get flight pay from boarding time and til the last passenger is off the plane
They should be paid fully from the moment they check in for the flight until they are totally finished and leaving work!
Haven't read all the comments yet, but to me it is a resounding yes. They should be paid the moment their briefing starts before they even step on the plane. I don't understand why getting critical information about the safety and conditions of a flights isn't considered work, it would be like going into the office and not getting paid during meetings.
And I think the point in the article saying that conversely they...
Haven't read all the comments yet, but to me it is a resounding yes. They should be paid the moment their briefing starts before they even step on the plane. I don't understand why getting critical information about the safety and conditions of a flights isn't considered work, it would be like going into the office and not getting paid during meetings.
And I think the point in the article saying that conversely they get paid during their break is moot: maybe they don't have to actively work during that break, but they are still 'trapped' in their workplace, and it's not like they can go hang out with their kids or something so for all intents and purposes they are still working.
Didn't mean to reply to this comment, it was meant for the main thread but I'm on a phone and the layout of the comment section makes it confusing.
It is ludicrous to expect flight attendants to work without pay. The minute they enter the airport they're on duty. They are representing their airline whilst navigating to the correct concourse. They WORK before the aircraft doors are closed. They assist passengers in numerous ways, they ready the plane cabin and galleys, count passengers, and so on. This nonsense of low pay must end. I'm sick of the fat cats in ivory towers making millions...
It is ludicrous to expect flight attendants to work without pay. The minute they enter the airport they're on duty. They are representing their airline whilst navigating to the correct concourse. They WORK before the aircraft doors are closed. They assist passengers in numerous ways, they ready the plane cabin and galleys, count passengers, and so on. This nonsense of low pay must end. I'm sick of the fat cats in ivory towers making millions of dollars off the backs of hard working people. Pay them a decent salary!
What a shame…….of coarse they should be paid for dealing with the animals who are boarding and de boarding the plane…..so many people are rude with too many carry ons…..I fly a lot and never knew this……pay them from the second they swipe in the terminal…..
Yes why not. They have to be there.
Flight Attendance should be paid from the time thay sign into the air port till the time they leave the airport to go home.
At my airline, a new flight attendant makes $23CAD an hour. We have a pairing which is a 13.5hr duty day, but we are only paid for 9.25hr, due to amount of time spend on the ground deplaning, grooming, and boarding new passengers. (Yes, we have to clean the plane for free). So when you do the math, we are actually only paid around $16 an hour. Only $1/hr above minimum wage. For you Americans,...
At my airline, a new flight attendant makes $23CAD an hour. We have a pairing which is a 13.5hr duty day, but we are only paid for 9.25hr, due to amount of time spend on the ground deplaning, grooming, and boarding new passengers. (Yes, we have to clean the plane for free). So when you do the math, we are actually only paid around $16 an hour. Only $1/hr above minimum wage. For you Americans, that’s about $12.5/hr.
The way companies take advantage of flight attendants is disgusting, because they know that this is a passion industry. No matter how bad the working conditions are, people will still apply as we all have passions for aviation. It’s a disgusting industry standard that needs to be changed.
We are highly trained, safety oriented, customer centric employees. We “are the face of the airline”. We deserve better.
where else can i pay an employee 2.00 per hour .. if the flight gets cancelled they get nothing
I find this a little ridiculous. Can you imagine how many more flights would be canceled if pilots and flight attendents got paid a salary vs hourly. Getting paid for air time ensures the airline stays in business. Besides, paid flight hours are designed to compensate for boarding and all the BS flight attendants and pilots have to do on ground.
Should be paid for boarding time
Flight attendants should be on full pay from the moment they clock-in for work, no ifs or buts. Why not?
Disclaimer: I am not a FA, never have been and never will.
If they can't be doing what they want to with that time then they should be paid by who is dictating what they are doing. Time is their product that they are selling. Don't steal their product.
Everyone should get paid for working. If you aren't paid you are a volunteer.
Pay them from the time they arrive at the gate. And until landing and walking out through the gate. Overtime included.
What a ridiculous question. Of course they should be paid-especially during boarding. I can't believe anyone would think any different.
From what I just looked up, they get payed between $31-47 an hour, I'm sure they'll be just fine
When we are informed boarding has started from the gate agent our pay should start. We are threatened by the company that we will be paid less if they pay us for boarding which is also ridiculous. And the saying “it’s always been that way” is a horrible excuse.
Boarding is easily one of the worst parts of the job as we are pressured to board quickly and sometimes even early by gate agents...
When we are informed boarding has started from the gate agent our pay should start. We are threatened by the company that we will be paid less if they pay us for boarding which is also ridiculous. And the saying “it’s always been that way” is a horrible excuse.
Boarding is easily one of the worst parts of the job as we are pressured to board quickly and sometimes even early by gate agents and we are supposed to do our safety checks, get passengers seated, luggage stowed, deal with seat dupes, and also monitor passengers for odd behaviors such as being drunk or look out for ones that could be harmful. And we get paid next to nothing - how this has been legal for so long will always perplex me. Change is needed now…
FAs pay structure consists of 4 calculations: 1) minimum daily 2) daily calculation using all hours on duty from report to release (including briefing, boarding and sit time) 3) trip calculation on all hours report to release including briefing, boarding, sit, and layover time or 4) flight pay for actual hours flown. FAs are paid the greater of these 4. While flight hours are used as a unit of pay, the calculations consider all time...
FAs pay structure consists of 4 calculations: 1) minimum daily 2) daily calculation using all hours on duty from report to release (including briefing, boarding and sit time) 3) trip calculation on all hours report to release including briefing, boarding, sit, and layover time or 4) flight pay for actual hours flown. FAs are paid the greater of these 4. While flight hours are used as a unit of pay, the calculations consider all time on duty (and on time away from base) in two of the four ways to determine pay. Pay ultimately covers all work from report to release by applying the measurement that produces the most.
I didn’t know they were hourly.
How about CEO’s only get paid when they are at their desk working and pay stops when they get up from their desks. That goes for all airline employees that makes these rules including those execs who get free rides and who knows what perks they get! By the way I am not nor ever was an airline employee I am 81 years old and a retired Nuclear power welding inspector.
It’s about also changing the Railroad labor act which also includes airlines. This has not been amended since airlines were added to it in the 1930’s.
Ok. Simple answer. Average the time/pay rate out for the whole flight including boarding and deplaning and make that the new hourly.
I think they should be paid when broading and deplaning!
"should be a part of contract negotiations" infers every FA is covered by a union.. this is not the case, some airlines' FA's are not union.. even though, arguably, they should/need to be..
I think it’s absurd that flight attendants are not paid during boarding. That is probably the most stressful time on the job, especially now. Either make them all salaried employees, or start paying from the minute they get to the airport and until they leave.
Nice anti labor sentiment. This is like saying office workers should be paid less for the time spent in meetings. Or fire fighters should be only paid their regular pay when actually putting out fires. Putting the onus on the union to rectify pay issues is absurd. The reason unions exist is exactly because of this type of game played by employers. Perhaps you should be asking why companies are prioritizing executive pay and shareholder...
Nice anti labor sentiment. This is like saying office workers should be paid less for the time spent in meetings. Or fire fighters should be only paid their regular pay when actually putting out fires. Putting the onus on the union to rectify pay issues is absurd. The reason unions exist is exactly because of this type of game played by employers. Perhaps you should be asking why companies are prioritizing executive pay and shareholder compensation (usually these are literally the same people) over the employees who make the company's operations possible.
They absolutely should be paid from the time they check in with the agent . They have to clear security and the agent has to clear them to walk down that jetway to aircraft. Once on board they have security equipment checks and job related duties. All pertain to their jobs.
To be clear on even the past starts for the airline I work for is after the plane pushes back from the gate not even the doors close. Also, say the flight is diverted due to refueling the pay stops once aircraft is parked for fueling. Then starts once plane moves again. On average I loose 15-16 hours per month equivalent to $1100. per month.
Typical corporate behavior!!!! How much does the CEO earn? Hell yeah they should be paid for boarding.
Of course, they manage the flow of passengers moving, helping with bags, children, the seniors. It's nice to see a friendly face.
I’m a Canadian flight attendant and we don’t get paid until the aircraft moves. It is mandatory that we arrive 1 hr or 1hr 20 minutes prior to scheduled departure time. This hour or hour & 20 minutes we do a flight briefing, flight/cabin checks & passenger boarding - we are not paid anything for any of this time!
I bet you have a pension still . No u s airline has a pension for f /a s . This job f /a has a lot of turn over .
Did you not know this when you accepted the job? If you didn't know, is the information not available, and were they conspiring to keep the information from you?
That is very unfair to the flight attendant!! If they are doing a service for the benefit of the customer!! That is indeed unfair payrights!! Management did not consult the flight attendant because they are greedy corporate and cheating people out of there minimal is what they for !! Not to mention not paying flight attendant for going to Training school and Only Receiving 20.00 dollar Vouchers a day to eat all day long ,!!...
That is very unfair to the flight attendant!! If they are doing a service for the benefit of the customer!! That is indeed unfair payrights!! Management did not consult the flight attendant because they are greedy corporate and cheating people out of there minimal is what they for !! Not to mention not paying flight attendant for going to Training school and Only Receiving 20.00 dollar Vouchers a day to eat all day long ,!! While in training is In humane!!This is a embarrassing and Shameful on the Airlines Corporate And SHAREHOLDERS !! Shame! Shame On you !!This a Absolute Disgraceful To The Airlines!! The flight Attendants Should Start A Class Action Suit !!
I believe once the flight attendant checks in at the gate, they should start getting paid. If you have a punch clock or a start time you would want to be paid from that moment forward. The same with leaving (punching out). On their exit once they pass the gate agent then off the clock.
As comparing to teachers there is no comparison. Teachers are 10 month employees and get paid a 12 month salary!!
Another poster stated they lose 15 to 16 hours of pay per month, and that equates to around $1100. That means they earn around $70 an hour. So you are quite right, there is no comparison to teachers. If teachers pay was converted to hourly pay using only the 10 month school term for calculation, it wouldn't come to $70 an hour.
To save you the time of doing the math: With a standard 8...
Another poster stated they lose 15 to 16 hours of pay per month, and that equates to around $1100. That means they earn around $70 an hour. So you are quite right, there is no comparison to teachers. If teachers pay was converted to hourly pay using only the 10 month school term for calculation, it wouldn't come to $70 an hour.
To save you the time of doing the math: With a standard 8 hour work day, there are 2080 work hours during a 12 month work year. So that would be 1733 work hours during a 10 month work year. 1733 X $70 = $121,310.
They already have a per diem. If they want to be paid for boarding then they should be responsible for anything that happens during boarding. What most people don't know is that during boarding, any blame or responsibility is given to the Customer Service Agent aka the gate agent; which is why the FAs always defer to get one when there is an issue during boarding so they don't have to deal with the issue....
They already have a per diem. If they want to be paid for boarding then they should be responsible for anything that happens during boarding. What most people don't know is that during boarding, any blame or responsibility is given to the Customer Service Agent aka the gate agent; which is why the FAs always defer to get one when there is an issue during boarding so they don't have to deal with the issue. If they want to get paid for "boarding" then they shouldn't be calling on a gate agent to handle things they don't want to deal with. Also FAs already make about 2x up to 5x what a gate agent makes.
Not sure what your experience is in on board flight while at the gate but indeed the flight attendants are responsible fr events while boarding. If a medical emergency, fire or other event occurs they have to perform specific duties to resolve that issue. Only time a agent is required to interact on plane is possibly when a customer has no seat assignment, removal from plane or when flight might have oversold flight to seek...
Not sure what your experience is in on board flight while at the gate but indeed the flight attendants are responsible fr events while boarding. If a medical emergency, fire or other event occurs they have to perform specific duties to resolve that issue. Only time a agent is required to interact on plane is possibly when a customer has no seat assignment, removal from plane or when flight might have oversold flight to seek volunteers for later flight. Flight Attendants can also be reprimanded or fired for actions that they partake in while boarding too. Furthermore the agents have not any formal training va airlines for emergencies whereas flight attendants do. Agents are as well paid from the time they clock in until clock out. They also are paid in-between flights which spans from 30 minutes to hours some days. This also allows them to make personal calls and do as they like until next flight. Flight attendants can't and if reported while on duty again can get remanded.
Lol SO - you do not understand the rules of the plane, don’t spread misinformation if you don’t know 100%.
FA’s are in fact responsible for what happens during boarding. The agents only get involved if it escalates and we need to remove someone.
Gate agents and other ground workers are paid for every hour they are on the clock and OT after the regular schedule is over. F/A’s are only paid for inflight hours…(nothing but $2.00+ per diem for non flying hours). You may be gone 60 hours for a 3-day trip, but only get paid for 20 hours flight time. Being away may sound glamorous, but it doesn’t pay the bills. Not all F/A’s are at the...
Gate agents and other ground workers are paid for every hour they are on the clock and OT after the regular schedule is over. F/A’s are only paid for inflight hours…(nothing but $2.00+ per diem for non flying hours). You may be gone 60 hours for a 3-day trip, but only get paid for 20 hours flight time. Being away may sound glamorous, but it doesn’t pay the bills. Not all F/A’s are at the top of their airline’s pay scale.
I just retired after 26 years with an airline, flying 20 of those years. I loved my career, but many things didn’t make sense. Aviation is big business and without unions all employees would be worked to the max without consideration for rest or health needs.
Not only should F/A’s be paid for boarding and deplaning, I feel that they should be paid more than per diem for ground time between flights and overnight stays.
Am I correct to understand that -on your example - pay is calculated at
60 x $2.00 = $120
20 x say $40.00 = $800
Total = $920 for 3 day trip
That's $306 per day divided by, say, average of 8 hours per day = average of $38 an hour.
I'm not in the aviation industry so grateful for clarification. Thanks
Very rarely an 8 hour day. The new law says 10 hrs duty time (like truckers) but F/A’s are only paid full pay for the inflight time in their duty day. Travel time from hotel to airport or airport to hotel, sit time in airport waiting for connecting aircraft or bad weather delays are part of duty day, but not paid at flight pay. You figure all the hours you’re away from home and not...
Very rarely an 8 hour day. The new law says 10 hrs duty time (like truckers) but F/A’s are only paid full pay for the inflight time in their duty day. Travel time from hotel to airport or airport to hotel, sit time in airport waiting for connecting aircraft or bad weather delays are part of duty day, but not paid at flight pay. You figure all the hours you’re away from home and not flying..that really makes the actual hourly pay a lot less. Those who do this job as a career, truly love it and appreciate not having to work in a 9-5 environment. It still doesn’t make certain practices fair or right!!
Yes....they are working. .aren't they??.? It's not like the board just as the plane is taking off. They greet you..assist with some on board luggage and unruly children AND unruly passengers...
I think flight attendants most definitely deserve to be paid during boarding. They greet passes with a smile, help direct them to their seats, answer questions, assist with carryon luggage. They make sure everyone is seated, buckled & the aircraft is safe for takeoff. They deserve to be paid fairly for that time
Of course they should be paid ANYTIME they are working! Certainly during boarding!!
They are working...thus they should get paid. This actually seems it should be a labor issue and should be illegal. They are underpaid and abused as it is. Treat them will a little respect.
No wonder they are grouchy when you board
What is the job worth. If they make a very high rate once doors close, it must satisfy the needs of a “living wage” and balance out.
Any time an employee must be on the job they should receive full pay..no exceptions..
Yes it's called captive time
Of course they should be paid!
They're working aren't they!!
Not all airlines have a contract or union representation. This is an outdated industry standard that creates many disparities. Sr flight attendants may do one boarding for international qnd are also the only ones to get paid for any kind of Crew rest, but regional carriers and Jr flight attendants (majoraty) can do anywhere from 4 to 8 boardings in a day! Food for thought if you think the hourly pay somehow justifys this continuing to occur.
Did not realize that. Should be paid full hourly wage the minute they walk through security.
I absolutely agree that flight attendants should be paid during boarding. People are so slow to get to their seats and are so demanding!
As s former regional flight attendant that didn't make enough money and was eligible for State assistance because I was so underpaid. Someone stated flight attendance make $80,000 per year. Not true. I agree flight attendants work very hard during the boarding process and a lot of the customers. Especially in First class expect Exceptional Service during boarding, after boarding and during the flight, so a lot of work goes into making sure their taken...
As s former regional flight attendant that didn't make enough money and was eligible for State assistance because I was so underpaid. Someone stated flight attendance make $80,000 per year. Not true. I agree flight attendants work very hard during the boarding process and a lot of the customers. Especially in First class expect Exceptional Service during boarding, after boarding and during the flight, so a lot of work goes into making sure their taken care of and provided with Stellar service.
Absolutely Flight Attendants should be paid during boarding.
I feel flight attendant should be paid from time they reach the plane, since now they are on duty. Walking down the concourse no. They at that point still Going to work. Not till they reach the place of work, than they are on duty.
This is crazy. They are working during boarding and should be paid. What does the DOL say about this?
Disgusting. Yet many support this! Stolen wages, that go straight to shareholders. The absolute greed of these reptiles.
Signed.
for $80k on average per year, it is certainly not theft.
And for those that argue how great it is in other countries, how about we hold US flight attendants to the same service standards that other countries have.
And how about we also post the average salaries of flight attendants in other countries; I can most assuredly tell you that the vast majority of those countries don't have average FA salaries as high as...
for $80k on average per year, it is certainly not theft.
And for those that argue how great it is in other countries, how about we hold US flight attendants to the same service standards that other countries have.
And how about we also post the average salaries of flight attendants in other countries; I can most assuredly tell you that the vast majority of those countries don't have average FA salaries as high as US FAs.
If you want to throw out the system, then let's give them what they want - pay for boarding and lower pay and benefits for everything else.
NO, I don't have a vendetta about anything. I do find emotionally driven, fact devoid comments disgusting. If you want to ask for something, do your homework and put all of the facts on the table - that has been devoid in most of these posts
Thank you.
You must be every Flight Attendant’s favorite passenger?
It’s corporate greed, labor theft, and barely a living wage today.
They need to be paid the whole time they are working. When I fly that's when I have the most inter reaction with them, and they are working. I think that's very unfair.
Well this Little rule for FA can be easily fixed! Pay them based on actual number of people that board each Flight. This should compansate for how they get paid now..... Only thing is all Airlines will not take a hit in any new income alloted. So expect fares to go up.... You know its not fare to someone that would make less PROFIT then before .......
During my time working at Southwest, I was able to see what FA’s do during boarding which is next to nothing. With that being said, the real flight attendants at United/American/Delta/Spirit/Frontier/JetBlue do deserve to be paid during boarding but not at Southwest. They also barely do anything during flight but cry about everything.
Should they be paid for during boarding ?
They should get 10 times more when they have to smile and greet the kind of demanding SOBs that they have to deal with on some American flights.
Here in Europe nobody would ever think of such a question.
Regards
B Phelan
Switzerland
This topic is a red herring. FAs are paid for boarding. And for sitting in a crew lounge on ready reserve waiting for an assignment, even if they don’t get one. They are paid at layover hotels and while in transit in crew busses. They are paid for training. The formulas used to determine this pay are all negotiated by their unions. It all comes from the same slice of “pay pie.” If they want...
This topic is a red herring. FAs are paid for boarding. And for sitting in a crew lounge on ready reserve waiting for an assignment, even if they don’t get one. They are paid at layover hotels and while in transit in crew busses. They are paid for training. The formulas used to determine this pay are all negotiated by their unions. It all comes from the same slice of “pay pie.” If they want different compensation, or to slice their particular pay pie differently, they need to negotiate it. Change.ORG petitions don’t negotiate contracts.
Exactly...
I don't know what airlines you are talking about but FA's do NOT get paid while on busses or staying at a hotel for layover! They are also NOT paid for training until,if, they pass at the END and it is less than $900 for the entire training.
Hi! What former lifetime were you an FA in!? Because THE PER DIEM FAs get on LAYOVERS is like $2.00 an hour, while we are grateful! What's your point? At some airlines, if you sit reserve in the airport 8 hours- you get paid maybe 4-6 hours. Sometimes, when you sit home reserve on call for 12 hours- that is unpaid time of waiting around to be scheduled and assigned or sleeping- just in case...
Hi! What former lifetime were you an FA in!? Because THE PER DIEM FAs get on LAYOVERS is like $2.00 an hour, while we are grateful! What's your point? At some airlines, if you sit reserve in the airport 8 hours- you get paid maybe 4-6 hours. Sometimes, when you sit home reserve on call for 12 hours- that is unpaid time of waiting around to be scheduled and assigned or sleeping- just in case u are assigned. Also, EVERY airline does NOT HAVE A UNION for their FAs and TBH alot of airlines prefer not to have them, so they can take advantage of their workers. So, this pay negotiation thing comes with alot of time and work- its not always realistic and it's not always available. Not to mention, boarding can take anywhere from 10 mins to hours. Most airlines, don't pay crew until the aircraft pushes back from the gate, not when the door closes, So please
Article is off point, flight attendant have basic salary plus flying hours (in most cases) so boarding time comes under basic salary.
Some airlines should stop paying their staff with change money for basic and there should be a set minimum wage!!
Dont put decent companies in the same bracket, fix shitty ones!!
You know this wouldn’t be news if they gave the full story… come on now, haven’t we all learned… if there is no news, let’s tell some half truths so we can create some news… yeah!
I think the airlines need to quit their whining, give people their money it's funny because when they're boarding people they're working, so now the new norm is while you're working you don't get paid until you move your left arm. Airline companies aren't going broke, They've been greedy for too many years. Come on airlines give up your lamborghini or your super yacht, start paying people money, quit being greedy. and so the rich...
I think the airlines need to quit their whining, give people their money it's funny because when they're boarding people they're working, so now the new norm is while you're working you don't get paid until you move your left arm. Airline companies aren't going broke, They've been greedy for too many years. Come on airlines give up your lamborghini or your super yacht, start paying people money, quit being greedy. and so the rich keep getting richer. I find it hilarious that an airline company wants their workers to treat people right but when it comes to treating their own people oh they disrespect them because they don't want to give them an extra $5 or dollar or whatever amount it may be. Give all the workers in the world a break get away from your stupid politics give them their money.
I definitely argue that flight attendant has to get pay during boarding because they're not sitting during boarding and let passengers help themselves. The flight attendant is doing a duty by assisting passengers during boarding. As long someone is perform a duty as work they should be compensated except if that person is on break. This is not only an exploitation of labor for the flight attendant not to get pay during boarding it's slavery....
I definitely argue that flight attendant has to get pay during boarding because they're not sitting during boarding and let passengers help themselves. The flight attendant is doing a duty by assisting passengers during boarding. As long someone is perform a duty as work they should be compensated except if that person is on break. This is not only an exploitation of labor for the flight attendant not to get pay during boarding it's slavery. the western world so call the free world is fast to criticize China while the same practice is happening right under they nose and close a blind eye about it. This a big hypocrisy.
How about the delays, when FA spend 2-3 hours with passengers on board and have to attend to all passenger questions and needs and at the end the flight is cancelled? FA spends way longer hours at work, which are not paid (some EU airlines) and then flights get cancelled and you go home wasting all day at "work" and you are not compensated for it, while your family is at home wating for you....
How about the delays, when FA spend 2-3 hours with passengers on board and have to attend to all passenger questions and needs and at the end the flight is cancelled? FA spends way longer hours at work, which are not paid (some EU airlines) and then flights get cancelled and you go home wasting all day at "work" and you are not compensated for it, while your family is at home wating for you. Some kind of moral compansation should be made in my opinion. A thought for thinking
They actually are being paid for onboard delays. If the door is closed. they are paid regular hours. If it’s open, they can request ground holding time.
In the rest of the developed world, employees are paid from sign on to sign off. Flight attendants or not. These ment amd women should strike until they are paid for all of their time... not just bits amd pieces.
This simply unfair. The flight attendants full clock should start ticking the moment their legs move from the rest area or their schedule time to board the aircraft, whichever comes first. Their should be be some different formulas for the legally required pre-boarding time they have to be reported in the airport. In other words, there are working hours (that is very wide, and can be split into different categories, like standby time, on call...
This simply unfair. The flight attendants full clock should start ticking the moment their legs move from the rest area or their schedule time to board the aircraft, whichever comes first. Their should be be some different formulas for the legally required pre-boarding time they have to be reported in the airport. In other words, there are working hours (that is very wide, and can be split into different categories, like standby time, on call time, rest time, training time,... Etc, and there is a duty hours which is the moment they get on the craft and prepare for a flight).. Yet, there is time where the FA is fully off the grid, just like the weekends and holidays for any other worker.
I understand the the calculations could be different from off board duties and on board duties, but the definition of Onboard duties need to be re-written. The bottom line, it is not their fault if the they were at the airport waiting area but their trip got delayed or canceled! They showed interest and reported to work on time. The same applies when they are in the sky and for whatever reason the landing gets delayed, as they are still fully responsible for tge flight safetyas well as facing and serving the passengers!
Flight. Attendants are no different than any other occupation. They should start their pay the moment they report for work. Whether that is at the check in counter, boarding gate, or the moment they get on the plane. It should not matter whether flight leaves, gets cancelled, delays. That's not the flight attendants problem. There deserve to be paid the moment they start performing any work activities, including boarding, and also the final sweep of...
Flight. Attendants are no different than any other occupation. They should start their pay the moment they report for work. Whether that is at the check in counter, boarding gate, or the moment they get on the plane. It should not matter whether flight leaves, gets cancelled, delays. That's not the flight attendants problem. There deserve to be paid the moment they start performing any work activities, including boarding, and also the final sweep of aircraft, after the flight. Also includes any additional time they must put in for reports or any other matters.
Sure. We’ll be happy to pay you whenever you’re actually working. But you’ll have to agree to “clock out” during crew rests. Fair?
Flight Attendants only get crew rest on long haul International Flights! They work hard for that break.
I entirely agree, flight attendants should from the time they start working, not when the doors are closed.
Absolutely! They’re working aren’t they? They are responsible for the safety of that aircraft from well before the first passenger steps on board until long after they leave. Preflight and post flight duties are work.
Flight attendants should be paid the moment they step on the airport property to start their shift. If that's not feasible, then pay them the moment they step foot on the airplane. Flight attendants start working the flight before the door even closes by meeting and greeting passengers upfront the airplane and those in the back prep for passenger intake. With that being said, they should be paid the moment they step on the airplane.
Of course they should be paid while boarding. The moment they show up and board the plane.. they are at work on the job. They answer questions go it passengers, help with seating and luggage, assisting elderly and disabled. Out never occurred to me that they are not paid during boarding time. Are pilots paid during the same period? Or does the pilot have to be in the Air before hit job time starts? This...
Of course they should be paid while boarding. The moment they show up and board the plane.. they are at work on the job. They answer questions go it passengers, help with seating and luggage, assisting elderly and disabled. Out never occurred to me that they are not paid during boarding time. Are pilots paid during the same period? Or does the pilot have to be in the Air before hit job time starts? This is a really silly question. It's like saying a surgeon isn't on the time clock until he makes the incision!
Lol
In Australia all workers are paid and given protections. No intership scams, no trial work, paid on attendance, penalty rates etc. And add 10,% compulsory super contributions for retirement. The USA is a basketcase. Low paid workers without benefits and the crime of expecting customers to tip in place of wages. Prices arent that cheap anyway.
Absolutely they should be paid for boarding of the passengers
Flight Attendants are "on point" to evaluate EVERY. SINGLE. PASSENGER who boards a flight. Anyone who doesn't think they should be paid, and paid well, for this crucial aspect of safety, should have his, her or their head examined!
"on point".....what are you the Israeli Mossad now?
Tell me you’re a republican without saying “I’m a republican.”
As a retired flight attendant, I'll add a few comments.
While it may seem on the surface that it's unfair, it's just a different way of slicing the pie.
Any company is only going to allocate so much money towards each employee, or each employee group. If the flight attendants want to be paid for boarding, then they'll be paid a lower hourly flight rate to compensate, or less vacation days, or some other...
As a retired flight attendant, I'll add a few comments.
While it may seem on the surface that it's unfair, it's just a different way of slicing the pie.
Any company is only going to allocate so much money towards each employee, or each employee group. If the flight attendants want to be paid for boarding, then they'll be paid a lower hourly flight rate to compensate, or less vacation days, or some other concession. In other words, we were paid pretty darn well while we were flying, in exchange for that 30 minutes of free boarding. And we continued to be paid that same rate between services while we basically just maintained and monitored and weren't actively working. We got that same rate while we ate. We got the same rate if we sat in a seat watching movies if we were lucky enough to deadhead (not commuting to/from work). On the longer international flights, we even got that same rate to sleep during our break. There aren't too many jobs were you not only don't get fired for sleeping on the job, but you actually get paid for it.
So, before the flight attendants push too hard for boarding pay, think about what you want to give up on exchange for it. We were worth a fixed dollar amount to the company. If you want more somewhere, it's going to come out of somewhere else. You can't keep everything you have and expect the company to just keep adding on top without getting anything back. It's that way with any job.
It strikes me that pay should start immediately upon the commencement of duty. Pilots were paid from wheels up and down, taxi ,checklist time was unpaid. Pretty ridiculous expectations by an airline for either attendants or flight crew
Whether or not this is a play for an overall wage increase is beside the point. Workers should be paid for all the time they are on the job, period. Even "rest periods" which are required by law and they can't leave for. Anything less than that is simply exploitation and I'm shocked to hear that the airlines are even allowed to get away with this B.S.
I will support this if they deserve it. However since coved19 took over they became nothing but assholes
How do you know Anon doesn't do any of that? Have you ever flew with him/her? Or do you even know that person? Or have you ever been on a plane requiring emergency evacuation? These people are more than just flight attendants. They do alot more than you think. You try taking the tests they have to prepare for before becoming a flight attendant and see how well you do. Next time you travel on...
How do you know Anon doesn't do any of that? Have you ever flew with him/her? Or do you even know that person? Or have you ever been on a plane requiring emergency evacuation? These people are more than just flight attendants. They do alot more than you think. You try taking the tests they have to prepare for before becoming a flight attendant and see how well you do. Next time you travel on board an aircraft with them tell them "thank you for all they do" because their jobs are not that easy.
Why do you say they become nothing but assholes since Covid--19? Is it because they politely ask you and others to wear your mask? Smh
This is absurd. They should be paid their regular rate, period. If they are required to be present and working, they should be paid fairly.
You have cabin crew who want more money!
What about their manners maybe the airline should give them a class before asking for more money.
I know first hand if you're a first class pasenger your treated alot differently then those who are not
For example they will give a warning about your mask and the others they will be all over them and would rather stop the take off and give you the boot. Maybe they should learn the word respect before asking for more money.
Yes they should be paid during boarding, they are there on the job, aren’t they?
Of course they should be paid. I never dreamed that they were not. They are WORKING-providing a benefit to their employer
And we have to “clock in” prior to even boarding the aircraft without pay! What other job does that to their employees? Plus we can be penalized if we don’t clock in on time! Where’s the justification in that ??
An employee should be paid from when they are required to be at work, until they are off for the day. So once a flight attendant reports for duty, pay them. They are the first line of defense for safety and customer service. No, I am not employed by any airline but I fly a lot and am appalled the men and women who offer professional and personal service might not be getting paid!?
Flight attendant should be paid from the time they cross the threshold into airport terminal.
Once flight attendant walks through the terminal in uniform representing the airline the flight attendant should be paid.
It is also very important to note, Flight Attendants and Pilots stop being paid once the aircraft parks at the gate at the end of a flight. Even though safety, security, and emergency responsibilities continue for the 20 minutes of deplaning passengers and the required aircraft security checks that follow are completed before the crew can leave the aircraft.
incorrect if they are away from base.
Stop this nonsense that crew members don't get paid.
And, just like pilots, flight attendant work rules were well known before they took the job.
If they wanted to be paid for every minute they were on company property, they should not have become a crewmember.
The rules have not changed. They are exactly as they were when they took the job WRT ground pay.
Tim Dunn, who is your connect to the airline industry? You seem to have a very serious vendetta against flight attendants or maybe it’s that you want to make money for the CEO’s? I’m just confused so please fill me in, thanks <3
To Tim's previous comments on work rules. Most people when looking for jobs and are finally hired get caught up in the moment of being hired so they will tend to agree with all the work rules but not necessarily agree with them per say. They are excited to get the job and to get a pay check so some rules although not agreed with at the time of accepting the job offer will be...
To Tim's previous comments on work rules. Most people when looking for jobs and are finally hired get caught up in the moment of being hired so they will tend to agree with all the work rules but not necessarily agree with them per say. They are excited to get the job and to get a pay check so some rules although not agreed with at the time of accepting the job offer will be accepted by them. So you talking about work rules to me seems very inconsiderate of others who are pushing for change or tweaks that should be made to the work rules or you probably are making a whole lot of money so changes like this seems petty to you and does not affect you.
so you gloss over the rules of the system because you somehow think it will be better - but it hasn't changed in decades?
Should I tell my boss that I, as a salaried employee, don't calls at 10 pm?
Some of you can't grasp the concept that US FAs ARE PAID just as nearly all other US workers have some period of their time when they don't get paid.
If I am required to be there, punitively, I deserve to be paid accordingly. Period. There are times when we have to sit in airports for 3 hours or more to work our next flight. I can’t leave the airport, but I’m also not being paid to be there. If I am on duty for 12 hours and only getting paid for 6 of those, you’ve essentially cut my salary in half. It happens all...
If I am required to be there, punitively, I deserve to be paid accordingly. Period. There are times when we have to sit in airports for 3 hours or more to work our next flight. I can’t leave the airport, but I’m also not being paid to be there. If I am on duty for 12 hours and only getting paid for 6 of those, you’ve essentially cut my salary in half. It happens all the time to junior flight attendants. Say a junior flight attendant who starts at $28/hr is scheduled to work a trip from JFK to SEA (5.5 hrs), sit in the airport in Seattle for almost 4 hours, then work a 2.5 hour flight to LAX. That’s an hour unpaid in the morning from sign-in to pushback, 3 hours of unpaid time in the airport, and another 45 minutes of unpaid time boarding that LAX flight. Trips like these are very common. So by the time you’ve gotten everyone off the plane, you’ve been on duty almost 13 hours, and you got paid for 8 hours. This just became a $15/hr job, and you have about 10 hours until you have to do the whole thing in reverse. This is an HOURLY not salary position. If I am required to be there and my employer can dictate how my time (even when I am not being paid) is spent, I need to be paid accordingly.
Modern age jewish slavery!!!
What happens if a loaded flight is delayed for 4-8 hrs and the airplane just sits at the gate with doors wide open??? SCREW THAT!!!
All airline emoloyees should punch a time card when they enter the airport and get paid as their work location in the airport is subject to change daily!!!
PAY ALL AIRLINES & AIRPORT EMPLOYEES WHEN THEY ENTER THE AIRPORT, THEIR WORK PLACE!!!
Yes they should be paid
Now I know the reason FAs in the USA don't help passengers with their luggages. It is very obvious that FAs are only there during boarding to greet passengers and eye on passengers if they do something that might jeopardize safety and not help with the boarding process. Is they don't get paid until the door closes.
F/A's hourly rate "block time" is $25-30 an hour and can reach $60 hour. F/A's have a union who have negotiated their pay rates and benefits for decades. I do not view this much differently than teachers. Educators argue there are many unpaid hours grading papers, lesson planning and more. Unions negotiate a total compensation package for their members. This hourly rate issue is a layer of the proverbial onion which, when you peel is back, is not what it seems.
MOST* FA’s have a union. Don’t forget the ones that don’t :)
MOST**** FA’s have a union. Don’t forget about the ones that don’t!
Someone needs to look outside their bubble. 27 states are right to work, in which Teachers cannot form a union. Also, not all FAs have unions.
Lots of applicants because there are no more appearance requirements...except for the top rated airlines.
They should have a sign in area as soon as they enter the airport! That gives them pay 15 minutes before and after they enter the plane!! They are in uniform and in a airport representing there company! Plus the fact that there in a airplane for a living! Of course some 40 million $ a year ceo will bitch that all that money cost him his 10 th vacation house!
this is an asinine take. the idea that people can be on sight performing duties and not getting paid because “they are paid even while not actively working in flight” is repulsive. corporations are making immense profits and this kind of treatment is inhumane and absurd. im disgusted
Their annual salary would remain the same either way. Their current hourly wage is higher than most other frontline airline employees to make up for the fewer hours they’re paid for.
If they get paid for more hours (i.e. boarding time) their hourly wage would decrease. It’s all about the annual salary and benefits package, not specific moments they’re receiving salary.
Crew vs ground pay scales are apples and oranges so can’t be compared.
Most people paid by the time they go into the office to go out of the office.For FAs their office door is the gate.But things like delays should also be taken into account.So maybe a fixed boarding time payment add to the contract?
Interesting difference here between USA where I can see why you view the departure gate as the office door - pre 9/11 generally anyone could go to the gate.
In Europe, higher security requirements (initially for immigration purposes, as nearly all flights are international) meant that everyone would regard the equivalent of the office door as the staff security door. And I don't think anyone here would expect clocking-in time as being anything other...
Interesting difference here between USA where I can see why you view the departure gate as the office door - pre 9/11 generally anyone could go to the gate.
In Europe, higher security requirements (initially for immigration purposes, as nearly all flights are international) meant that everyone would regard the equivalent of the office door as the staff security door. And I don't think anyone here would expect clocking-in time as being anything other than at that point.
Post 9/11 TSA security and Schengen in Europe have brought the setup in the two places to largely the same.
I agree flight attendants should be paid during boarding and onboarding. They help passangers so kindly while boarding and airline should pay them for job well done. Do pilots get paid from time they board the plane. So grateful this attendent are there during flight boarding. Imagine if they were not to keep things orderly. Expecally now a day. I so appriciate them. So should the airlines. With all they put up with these days.
The flight attendants who realize they are being underpaid and undervalued and speak up about it seem the be “less great” to you. Interesting. Noted.
It’s ok to complain about their agreed-to contract to customers who ask for help? Yes that sounds “less great” to me.
If it’s ok to speak up about being undervalued should they all get on the PA and announce it to the whole passenger cabin? Nothing unprofessional about that, right? What’s the difference between that and saying it to individual passengers?
I worked for a subsidiary of American Airlines for five years part-time and I agree that FA should be paid during boarding and de-planing.
They should start getting paid when they walk on the plane till they exit the door. Come on man you fat cats living in your fancy homes and driving those fancy cars. Do what’s right and pay those people right.
They should definitely get paid for that !
What other profession can you think of, that when you report to work you don't get paid for an hour or two? I can't think of any. Let's say you report at 6 a.m. but the flight is delayed and you don't actually leave until 9 a.m. you are sitting unpaid at the terminal or even on the plane for 3 hour's. That is your time and your obligated to stay near the gate. It's absurd to say the least.
please let us know what flights you or your spouse has worked that take 2 hours - let alone 1 - to work?
If you are not at your domicile, you are getting time away from base pay if you work for most US airlines.
So the entire notion that you are working for "free" is incorrect except for, depending on company work rules, the first departure of a rotation from your base
Most airlines have holding pay if a flight is delayed as well.
This is absolutely untrue. So many flights take more than 2 hours to work? And do you think TAFB being $2/hr is just and not working for free? If a FA’s flight is delayed for hours or they are sitting at an airport for hours waiting for your next flight, $2 an hour feels like enough pay is to survive?
Teachers.
They should be paid the minute they arrive at the airport, clock out when shift ends or salary annually.
if someone wants to work a shift job, why do they apply for a transportation job that is specifically NOT regulated as it is for shift workers and that has been the case since the beginning of the airline age in the US?
I'm still waiting for ONE person to tell me that they were paid to board a flight and now no longer are.
Why should the rules suddenly change because a bunch of flight attendants complain that they don't like the system?
you’re clearly either a virgin waging pro-capitalist war from his never left bedroom or else a wealthy man. probably profit off of sweatshops
Seriously??? Have you even thought about inflation or the cost of living increase lately??? FA’s have always complained but recently it’s gotten to a point where it would make such a significant different if their quality of life that they can’t just sit by and be complacent anymore. You should be supporting them.
They might attract more sympathy if they were nicer to passengers. After the last two years. I couldn't care less about flight attendants.
This is the apologist line for the privileged class. "Workers knew what they were signing up for". This kind of crap is why unions were formed. There is no power balance between the airlines and the flight attendants. That's why labor laws were created in the first place to give employees rights that stop them from being exploited.
I hope you are not a union rep because workers would not get what they deserve when issue like this presents itself and need to be changed. And if you are a CEO or someone who is in a position to make positive change for workers, God help those workers because you lack in reasoning and decision making skills.
I think you either are management for an airline or you work at McDonalds and resent anyone making more than you. Why on God’s green earth would you ever be against a working person not getting paid what they deserve? You are what is wrong with the human race.
Flight Attendants are paid for flight time once the Pilot’s release the brake at departure and engage the brake at arrival, not when door is closed.
What the airlines do to flight attendants is called wage theft. In most other professions paid hourly, workers are paid for preparation time as well as time spent on their primary duties. In the case of flight attendants, they are working as soon as they check in for their flight. Hope this injustice is addressed soon.
Regardless of the system, they get paid plenty the way it is!
Just call it a salary and stop the whining!
If I can get $80k per year and call it theft, sign me up
All of the people popping off about how underpaid flight attendants are would do well to know that the AVERAGE flight attendant compensation package - salary and benefits - is close to $80,000 according to data which the top four airlines have filed with the US DOT.
This is an AVERAGE. There are a whole lot of flight attendants that clearly have salary and benefits over $100k.
The issue is HOW the compensation is structured, not that ANYONE works for free.
As soon as he or she boards the plane automatically should start getting paid..... these people are very nice courteous as you are boarding.....
Can you tell that to my W2 that’s states I made 30,000 after being with a major US airline for 4 years? Or would you like me to show you the day that I worked 15hrs and only got paid 4hrs of flight time because of delays, we definitely work for free a lot.
You've never "worked" 15 hours. Read magazines, played with your phone for 15 hours....maybe.
Really! That's all you see when you fly on a plane? What about the good work they all do for you and all the other passengers onboard the airplane? Think about and see that for a change! I bet you also see the $100 or other compensation you receive when the flight is delayed. Don't you?
Obviously there are a whole lot of other flight attendants at YOUR airline that make a whole lot more than you do.
Why aren't you doing all you can to topple them so you can move up faster and make more money?
And since you self-identified as a flight attendant, can you tell us when your airline last paid for you to board a plane?
You took a job - as did every other US...
Obviously there are a whole lot of other flight attendants at YOUR airline that make a whole lot more than you do.
Why aren't you doing all you can to topple them so you can move up faster and make more money?
And since you self-identified as a flight attendant, can you tell us when your airline last paid for you to board a plane?
You took a job - as did every other US airline flight attendant that now wants to be paid for the time you spend boarding the plane and yet your airline NEVER paid you to board that plane?
Yeah and one point there were segregated bathrooms. Just being it is (was) the standard does NOT make it right and you speaking out against workers speaking up for their rights says a lot about you as a person.
You can't filter Compensation in with their base pay. That is separate. You can't pay mortgage, car payments, utility bills, childcare, cellphone bills, etc. from Compensation. If you are doing so with yours then maybe you should share the secret here with them. Everyone deserves and should desire more money on top of what they are making. If you are not one of those persons desiring more money then maybe you should stop commenting on this platform.
How do you know how much these people make? It seems like you applied for a position as a flight attendant and was not accepted so now you are bitter with all flight attendants.
1....I'm on A LOT of flights.
2...I interact with A LOT of these minimally skilled losers quite regularly.
3....They're paid just fine for their "skills" (lack thereof)
Oh look, it's another guy who is flying on his company's dime which is the only reason he has cubic zirconia status and thinks he is entitled to berate flight attendants because of it.
Either that or he's a pilot. And now you know why flight attendants don't like to interact with pilots. Don't worry Chris, we're still going out even though we told you we were staying in this layover, and we're going to have a good time laughing about you at the bar.
Rest assured, we have nothing but contempt for you losers and prancing queens.
And yet, after 20 years of flying the same airplane, you still have no idea how the coffee maker works. Imagine that. You can have contempt all you want. While you're on your third alimony and still paying off your student loan from flight school, I'm buying my second home student-loan free and don't look like I ate the person on my crew ID.
You are WAY off. WAAAAY off. That would require you to top out in pay, which requires you to have done the job for 13 years, and you would have to work an average of about 80 hours a month (which is really like 160 when you factor in all the unpaid time and time spent in airports). Junior flight attendants would fly 120 a month (like working 240 hours on the ground factoring in actual time on duty) and might get 55k a year with a mainline flying a brutal schedule.
Waiting time is work time when you are directed to wait by the employer. It's that simple. You can't board if the stewardess and stewards are not present. They are working. They deserve to be paid.
My take? Isn't it odd that yet another job staffed largely by women, much like being a server in a restaurant, has arranged to screw their employees on compensation?
YES!!!!!!
This is another female dominated profession getting screwed like teachers, librarians, nurses, office workers. Etc. Call them “Honey” and don’t pay them.
Flight attendants should be paid the minute they come to work and even while boarding is taking place...
Flight attendants should be paid from when they are REQUIRED to be at work and paid until they leave the plane. If they are staying on the plane for another flight they keep getting paid.
Yes most definitely!!!!!
From the very first passenger they should be paid. A lot of the hard work is done before the doors shut.
Your wrong when you say we’re paid when the door closes! We can sit at the gate for an hour, with a full AC due to ATC hold, weather, etc!!….. if the brake isn’t released, we’re not on the clock!! So if there is an emergency, passenger passes out, cardiac arrest…. Whatever the emergency is…. We’re NOT a getting paid if the brake isn’t released! At American Airlines anyway! Boarding is the hardest part of...
Your wrong when you say we’re paid when the door closes! We can sit at the gate for an hour, with a full AC due to ATC hold, weather, etc!!….. if the brake isn’t released, we’re not on the clock!! So if there is an emergency, passenger passes out, cardiac arrest…. Whatever the emergency is…. We’re NOT a getting paid if the brake isn’t released! At American Airlines anyway! Boarding is the hardest part of our job! It’s stressful for all of us, helping passengers, stowing bags, closing 40lb bins with luggage, fixing problems that arise, accommodating passengers who aren’t seated with their family…. It’s endless!! We’re NOT getting paid!!
I can't believe the airlines get away with this! A travesty.
I think they should get paid during boarding
If they are away from home staying in hotels etc then they should get paid from the time they leave their hotel till the time they walk through their front door at their home.
More important than how it is calculated is the amount the people get paid. I do not know the figures in the US. Finnair publishes its own. The median salary of a cabin crew is ca 4.300 USD per month which is taxable income. On top of that comes taxfree travel allowance that usually varies between 300 and 800 USD per month. The average flying hours vary between 100 and 120 hours. Everyone deserves a fair pay for their work.
It helps to understand from where this practice stems. Airlines in the US are covered by the RLA (Railway Labor Act). Flight crew contracts and the way they are negotiated have followed the outline set by that piece of legislation since the airlines were incorporated into it in 1936. The legislation has remained largely untouched since that time. Not to be obvious, but airline travel has changed IMMENSELY since that time, as has the flight...
It helps to understand from where this practice stems. Airlines in the US are covered by the RLA (Railway Labor Act). Flight crew contracts and the way they are negotiated have followed the outline set by that piece of legislation since the airlines were incorporated into it in 1936. The legislation has remained largely untouched since that time. Not to be obvious, but airline travel has changed IMMENSELY since that time, as has the flight attendant job. It is long overdue for some of these "past practices" to change.
Honestly they should be paid as soon as they enter the airport. Having to go through an airport security etc is a job in its self. Maybe we should start tipping?
As a flight attendant, I still can’t understand how I can be in uniform, be on an airplane, meeting greeting and screening passengers-and not be paid. I can’t think of any job where you would be expected to do your job, on “company time” and not be paid.
The rest of the world pays F/A’s from sign on to sign off - I can’t imagine how a US f/a exists and is able to feed their families
As soon as he or she boards the plane automatically should start getting paid..... these people are very nice courteous as you are boarding.....
How is this legal? Don't we have minimum wage laws? This is crazy...
They’re salaried employees based on the flights they work. Each flight is worth $X dollars. You bid for the flights you want. You know exactly how much you’ll make to fly that trip. Calculate it however you want but the medium income for flight attendants is around $80k for about 100 hours a month. Or about $72 an hour with a month of vacation thrown in for good measure.
You have to be topped out in pay, or work for 13 years to make that hourly wage. Don’t conflate things. And no, we are not salaried employees. We are paid by the hour.
They are working by greeting , taking care of passengers as they board, I would say that is on the job at work.
Of course they should be paid once they step into the aircraft. That is their work place.
Shocked this seems to be debatable.
I find that interesting as we the passengers are never allowed to board until the crew is on the plane first so the basic assumption is they (crew) have to be in place and working. Seems a simple case of unfair labor practice that should have been resolved years ago?
Yes they should get paid the minute they go into the plane because they are working and asissting passengers who sometimes can be very nasty and rude to them 100% they should get paid
Yes at the moment they are working why not
It is ridiculous that this happens (in some countries). My partner flies for Qantas (Australia) and he is paid from the moment he signs on, which for Canberra base is 45 minutes. This gives the crew time to review the manifest, etc, walk to the terminal & gate and set up the boarding process. Once landed they are paid for 15 minutes after the last passenger disembarks.
If they are required to be on the plane, then they are performing a service for the company THEN THEY SHOULD BE PAID FOR THE WORK BEING REQUIRED OF THEM!!!
Hell yes they’re working right? Maybe they should let people board the planes and then show up and start working!
Should people be paid while they work?
This is just another consequence of very weak employee protection laws in the US. In most of the world is completely unthinkable to not pay people while they're at work.
Yes, they should get paid while boarding. They are responsible for safety as soon as the passenger steps on board. So I believe they should be getting paid.
And just so that everyone is aware, every airline doesn't have a union to negotiate! Sometimes a flight attendant can be on the clock for several hours before a flight as well, not just scheduled time. If we are delayed, there's a mechanical, or anything else, flight attendants aren't paid but required to be present. That's a LOT of time too.
Of course they should get paid. Being able to fly by standby isn't enough.
It seems pretty simple to me. If they are required to be there they should be paid.
I would hope the reason it's being stated is one, to inform people of something that truly is not right. Two, maybe to explain that they also despise delays as they aren't being paid, so don't yell at them over something they cannot control as they aren't even getting paid. And three, to explain why they can't help with luggage. If they aren't being paid, they aren't protected if they get hurt. They have people...
I would hope the reason it's being stated is one, to inform people of something that truly is not right. Two, maybe to explain that they also despise delays as they aren't being paid, so don't yell at them over something they cannot control as they aren't even getting paid. And three, to explain why they can't help with luggage. If they aren't being paid, they aren't protected if they get hurt. They have people come on and act like it's their responsibility to lift passenger's heavy luggage and it is not. If they get hurt they ger no worker's compensation, and are out of a job for however long it takes to heal.
Source: I'm a flight attendant family member
As a flight attendant some important things to know is that we fall under the railway labor act, which is why it needs to be brought up to the president instead of just in contract negotiations. Our unions can only do so much when we fall under a act that was made in the 30’s! Also most flight attendants make closer to 80 hrs a month, not a 100. I don’t think anyone should have...
As a flight attendant some important things to know is that we fall under the railway labor act, which is why it needs to be brought up to the president instead of just in contract negotiations. Our unions can only do so much when we fall under a act that was made in the 30’s! Also most flight attendants make closer to 80 hrs a month, not a 100. I don’t think anyone should have to settle for less pay to be paid for their entire time on the job, why do we need less hourly wage when airlines make billions of dollars, I’d argue that they can afford to pay us our hourly for boarding. If you were to do the math on what a junior flight attendant makes it would come out to less than 30,000 a year. Some of the most challenging times happen during boarding and deplaning, we are also completing our safety checks to ensure we can keep everyone safe when we are 30,000 feet up. Finally, I think it’s important that passengers know we aren’t getting paid during boarding and deplaning, especially during delays, I think it helps everyone be a little more empathetic toward each other because we are just as frustrated as you sitting there unpaid.
You're already overpaid for reading magazines and playing on your phone.
Ok and when you or a loved one is experiencing an emergency 30,000 feet up or have to evacuate a plan in less than 90 seconds, come back to me on how we already get paid enough. I VERY rarely have free time to sit and read, I have to monitor the cabin every 15 minutes, on top of completing my service, helping the pilots with bathroom breaks, refilling beverages, assisting to every need a passenger experiences while on board.
You do absolutely none of those things.
Bitter, party of one
Calling, Bitter party of one
How privileged you are to never have experienced any of those things during flight. Also. You have no idea what it is to be on four planes a day 21 days out of a month. I TRULY HOPE you or anyone you love never experiences an emergency in the air, Mr. Chris.
How do you know Anon doesn't do any of that? Have you ever flew with him/her? Or do you even know that person? Or have you ever been on a plane requiring emergency evacuation? These people are more than just flight attendants. They do alot more than you think. You try taking the tests they have to prepare for before becoming a flight attendant and see how well you do. Next time you travel on...
How do you know Anon doesn't do any of that? Have you ever flew with him/her? Or do you even know that person? Or have you ever been on a plane requiring emergency evacuation? These people are more than just flight attendants. They do alot more than you think. You try taking the tests they have to prepare for before becoming a flight attendant and see how well you do. Next time you travel on board an aircraft with them tell them "thank you for all they do" because their jobs are not that easy.
Make you a deal. We’ll pay you for when you’re standing up and actually working if you give up your flight benefits/passes. Deal?
Next time you on an airplane and you think the flight attendants are reading or playing on their phones, tell you what, you make sure you get a seat next to the plane engine and every so often you peak your head outside and check the plane's engine to see if you see any smoke or flames coming from them. You do just that to assist them and the pilots without you getting paid then...
Next time you on an airplane and you think the flight attendants are reading or playing on their phones, tell you what, you make sure you get a seat next to the plane engine and every so often you peak your head outside and check the plane's engine to see if you see any smoke or flames coming from them. You do just that to assist them and the pilots without you getting paid then come back and respond to this comment. I bet you didn't know that as a passenger on an airplane that is one of your responsibilities as well as if you sit at an exit door of a plane to assist in case of an emergency.
Is boarding not part of the flight?
What happens when here is a delay? Clever trick not the pay workers for their work. I call that exploitation.
Of course to they should get paid, they are technically working while greeting passengers and helping them get settled in.
I would say if you are at your job and duty station ready to work when it is boarding time, of course you should be getting paid. Perhaps, the cost of flying would be increased, but that is only fair to the crew. Also paid until everyone has deplaned at minimum.
As far as I'm concerned, the current practice is illegal. There can be a different rate for ground time, but it should be at least the minimum wage...not free.
How is it illegal?
YES! The minute their shift starts, they are on the clock and should be paid!!
Flight attendants should be paid from the moment they step foot in the airport
I believe flight attendants should be paid during boarding. People are demanding and nasty to them during boarding and the flight! They do much more work than even required by boarding. People don’t realize that these fight attendants can save their lives and should be compensated for that knowledge also.
Yes, pay them but cut their pay, which takes the boarding process into account. Don't laugh. Medicare often cuts doctors' pay. It's to the point that some no longer take Medicare. Many have long stopped seeing Medicaid patients. I read that if you do surgery on a Medicaid patient, you won't get paid enough to buy a tire or just enough to buy 2 fillups of gasoline.
Do you know that flight attendants can save your life? My Granddaughter is a flight attendant and can shock your heart, has been trained to fight terrorists, stop bleeding, stop fires, etc. You don’t think they should be paid for the training under their belt and all the crap folks dole out everyday?
Totally!!!
Oh grandma....
Your granddaughter suffers from a superiority complex, has control issues and an over-inflated sense of self importance.
Please just drive everywhere you want to go. I dread having someone like you on ANY flight I would ever work.
Oh Chris! I think you are suffering from over-inflated and non-sensical comments and your sense of comprehending and seeing the truth is over compensated by your lack of understanding to further accept that what Linda is saying about her granddaughter is the truth.
I keep reading about yearly cuts in Medicare payments. So if Linda claims that FA can save your life, they should get their pay cut, just like Medicare.
The Flight attendants should be paid the minute they walk in the plane. If not they are working for free. I fly and I have asked for a seat belt extender and was given one during boarding. The Flight attendant is also getting things ready for the flight during boarding. As soon as they are on the plane they are on company time. So pay them.
Flight Attendants get paid when the aircraft moves, not at door closing. That means when there are delays, the free time for the company can turn into many hours. Yet the FAA states that once passengers are on board, there must be minimum crew, 1 FA per every 50 seats or fraction of 50, onboard until every passengers has deplaned.
YES...Flight Attendants should be paid the moment they step on the airplane for preflight duties.....hours & hours go into training of these critical functions...Airline management should include this as compensation. Per diem will start at check in for duty...1 hour before departure.
Yes they should be paid as soon as they clock in , including boarding..absolutely!!
You you be paid from the time you clock in to the time you clock out because this is what the airline instructs you to do. If the plane departure is delayed for 3 hours the flight attendants should do this for nothing ? Outrageous exploitation. Does the boss not get paid when he is traveling to a meeting ? Of course not !!
Actually, no. The boss doesn’t get paid generally while traveling. Per diem is a separate topic. “Bosses” are usually salaried without overtime for most of those types of “boss” positions. So no, they don’t get paid extra for taking a 6am flight and finishing a meal with clients at 10pm.
Yes me as gate agent working closely with flight attendants from the moment i begin a boarding once those passengers pass thru the door flight attendants are already helping passengers either locate their seats or help with carry on luggage etc so yes they should get paid from the moment passengers start boarding
They should be paid from the moment they arrive at the airport and their scheduled shift starts. Like every other employee.
Absolutely!!!
No! Do not change the way airlines pay them. They get extra bonus ie: free travel for themselves AND family, less we forget.
.they started this career knowing full well what's the terms!
Do you know that flight attendants can save your life? My Granddaughter is a flight attendant and can shock your heart, has been trained to fight terrorists, stop bleeding, stop fires, etc. You don’t think they should be paid for the training under their belt and all the crap folks dole out everyday?
LMAO, Free travel? As if there is a flight not completely full. That was a perk when you could easily get on a plane. Nowadays we buy tickets just like you!
They absolutely should be paid from the time the company requires you to be at the airport!
LOL Elaine obviously got rejected for a flight attendant interview. Bitter is not a good taste. Your proposal - even though there’s room for improvements, they shouldn’t fight for it because they knew what they were getting into? what a reductive idea
No....we're mostly just road warriors who see flight attendants for what they are......worthless.
Worthless? Then stop flying with them then and just drive or don't travel by plane. Period! How ungrateful!
That seems unreasonable , perhaps a rejection at an F/A interview or one of those other mentioned passengers
US flight attendants are criminally underpaid and under-appreciated by their employers and passengers alike. The last two years have been insane. The job deserves hazard pay at this point! If this is what it takes to even get a discussion going, then I’m all for it. But I fear this is only going to trigger lots of comments about flight attendants barely working at all. But under the conditions they’re working these days I can’t...
US flight attendants are criminally underpaid and under-appreciated by their employers and passengers alike. The last two years have been insane. The job deserves hazard pay at this point! If this is what it takes to even get a discussion going, then I’m all for it. But I fear this is only going to trigger lots of comments about flight attendants barely working at all. But under the conditions they’re working these days I can’t really blame them.
I used to fly for Swissair back in the day and sure, it was a different era and an airline that cultivated and emphasized customer service. We prepped the plane before passengers boarded and when boarding started, the purser greeted each passenger at the door while we positioned ourselves throughout the cabin to welcome each person as they walked by us and helped with stowing bags and finding seats or extension belts or anything that came up. It set the tone. It created an atmosphere. It didn’t feel like boarding a city bus.
For us the clock of the hourly compensation started at take-off. Not push-back. Which meant that if we had to return to the gate and possibly waited there for some mechanical issue to be resolved, we served refreshments and chocolate and tried to be available throughout the cabin for questions or assistance and weren’t paid anything extra. And most times we still completed the flight. Our max. duty time was significantly higher than the pilot’s. This type of hourly compensation is on top of the base salary and is actually a flat rate reimbursement of expenses. The clock kept ticking from take-off in Zurich to touchdown in Zurich. On a day of two short-haul turnaround flights, it could be up to 10 hours, on a day of just one flight from ZRH to FRA, it was possibly not even 3. But on a 5-day rotation where you spent the night in a different city each day, that clock started and stopped with each departure or landing at our home base, but kept running all night, while we slept in a posh hotel.
It was designed to be fair. You had expenses to and from work when you slept at home, which you didn’t if you stayed at hotels abroad. Breakfast was always included, but we paid for meals and tipped the hotel staff and we needed to regularly replace our beaten up luggage. Sometimes we had to get a shirt laundered or a jacket dry-cleaned if something happened on a flight. Obvious, common and less obvious or unusual expenses that happen when traveling for work. I never added it up. It seemed fair. I never heard anyone complain about it. It was designed to balance out over the course of a month with the mix in everybody’s flight plan.
With multiple hubs and the differences between turnarounds and types of point-to-point flying, different route networks and the rarity of night stops domestically, I’m not suggesting that this system is the right one for every airline, but it’s misleading to take those $2 per hour that are deliberately tied to an officially recorded time stamp by a third party and pretend that it makes this a job that is paid by the hour. However, it is the ridiculously low base pay that forces flight attendants to mentally add this extra compensation to their salary in order to even get to a number that makes it economically feasible to do this job. That’s not just ridiculous, it is outrageous.
Btw, the hourly expense pay at Swissair in 1992 was about 3 Swiss Francs. That corresponded to approximately $2.25 to $2.75, depending on the exchange rates then. That was 30 years ago! And trust me, neither Swissair, nor any other airline ever went under because they paid their flight attendants too much for expenses…
How are they not paid? That's strange. They should paid the entire time they are scheduled to work
Well I travel southwest and I really believe they should get paid...and even give them a raise.. they are so friendly and helpful....and at times they get treated bad by plp...
I say YEs ..pay them
What the hell? That's unacceptable, and would never fly with me. These people have a ton to do do before the door closes. This needs to change. The second they arrive to start setting up for the flight is the second they need to be getting paid.
If the flight attendant is in uniform and on the aircraft they should be paid. They are the first one you see when you are boarding for your next trip .
It is a fantastic idea. The current practice means the flight crew gets paid more after pushback and contributes to flights staying on the tarmac and delays for everyone. The crew is in no hurry to return to the gate for any reason. I know because I have been a flight crew member for years. Sitting away from gate is flight pay and adds to my monthly accrual tarmac or in flight it is all the same.
Flight attendant contracts are collectively bargained by FA unions and airlines, both exceptionally experienced and sophisticated parties in these matters. If the FAs and their unions want a change, they can seek it in their next round of contract negotiations.
This petition is effectively asking the government to intervene in and supersede the agreed-upon terms of FAs (through their union) and airlines.
How would people feel if the petition were reversed, and someone...
Flight attendant contracts are collectively bargained by FA unions and airlines, both exceptionally experienced and sophisticated parties in these matters. If the FAs and their unions want a change, they can seek it in their next round of contract negotiations.
This petition is effectively asking the government to intervene in and supersede the agreed-upon terms of FAs (through their union) and airlines.
How would people feel if the petition were reversed, and someone was asking for the government to intervene on behalf of the AIRLINES in their contact with FAs? You would laugh, of course.
This situation is no different—neither sophisticated party that agreed to the current work terms needs outside help.
The petition should be ignored.
I completely agree with this. Flight Attendants should start getting pay from their report time until the end of the flight. Is not fair not only they got to report at least an hour or more before the flight, they also have a lot of preflight preparation to do even before the boarding begins. Also how about when you show up at your report time and your flight is delay? Just because for whatever the...
I completely agree with this. Flight Attendants should start getting pay from their report time until the end of the flight. Is not fair not only they got to report at least an hour or more before the flight, they also have a lot of preflight preparation to do even before the boarding begins. Also how about when you show up at your report time and your flight is delay? Just because for whatever the reason might be the flight is delayed doesn't mean that they should seat at the airport and wait for free. Let's do the right thing and give them what they deserve.
flight attendants should get paid more they are so under payed do a great job
Only the most pie in the sky fools would imagine that being forced to pay for boarding time wouldn't cause the average hourly rate for FAs to be lowered (either now or in future labor agreements) to compensate.
OK if your argument is "FAs should be paid more, period", but that's not the issue here.
Like any other job they should start getting paid the minute they step into the airline office and check in. No brainer!
Many times when I fly from east to west and I walk to the back of the plane I see the flight attendants doing cross word puzzles or reading books, so they get plenty time free and getting paid so if the airline doesn’t pay till doors closing why petition for a raise. They are not forced to take the job rather they eager to have this job.
How can an employer expect an employee to perform required functions, but not pay them? I thought that was illegal.
That said, if you begin to pay at the time of sign in or boarding, does this impact the legality of time a FA can work in a day?
Flight attendants should get paid @ boarding time, they are waiting on the passengers; I believe they are also doing a " visual passenger check" they are assisting the pilots! Pay the attendands, their base pay is already low.
Let's have a moment of realism: the union understands that including boarding in "flight pay" would result in a reduction in the hourly rate to balance the equation. Unions almost always act to preserve the benefits of senior members at the expense of new hires. The high-seniority FAs that get a 15-hour transpac would take a pay cut in favor of their newer colleagues who spend half their work hours off the clock on short...
Let's have a moment of realism: the union understands that including boarding in "flight pay" would result in a reduction in the hourly rate to balance the equation. Unions almost always act to preserve the benefits of senior members at the expense of new hires. The high-seniority FAs that get a 15-hour transpac would take a pay cut in favor of their newer colleagues who spend half their work hours off the clock on short domestic hops. The FA unions would never, ever push for this.
Exactly.
This is the most astute comment right here. Unless we as passengers are willing to pay more to put more money into the FA pay pool, this is really about re-arranging who gets which piece of that pool. Say that the pool stays the same, and the additional hours of boarding get thrown in and the hourly pay is lowered to keep the total compensation pool the same. In this case, what matters is the...
This is the most astute comment right here. Unless we as passengers are willing to pay more to put more money into the FA pay pool, this is really about re-arranging who gets which piece of that pool. Say that the pool stays the same, and the additional hours of boarding get thrown in and the hourly pay is lowered to keep the total compensation pool the same. In this case, what matters is the ratio of time spent in boarding vs time spent in the air. A senior FA who spends 1 hour in boarding a 777 and then 15 hours in the air would lose a lot. And a junior FA doing 5 30-45 minute hops and spending 30 minutes in boarding at each stop would see a jump.
The unions (and FAs for that matter) are not stupid. They understand this dynamic, and are happy to continue it because it favors senior FAs. FWIW, I'm not judging whether they *should* favor seniors over juniors. Someone will always get the short end of the stick, so it's up the the unions and their members to decide who it is. But they can't complain then about the decision they made.
This sums it up perfectly. Their hourly rates are higher to compensate for the times they’re not being paid (during boarding, waiting for flights). If they got paid during boarding their hourly rate would decrease accordingly to keep the annual pay rate the same.
They absolutely should be paid during boarding, just as pilots should. Before the doors shut, FA's are very busy preparing the aircraft for pax and welcoming/assisting pax get onboard. During the same time, the pilots are preparing the aircraft's systems for flight by programming the FMC, going through their checklists, etc. The fact that this time isn't paid for either of these groups is ridiculous considering it's one of the busiest and more stressful times...
They absolutely should be paid during boarding, just as pilots should. Before the doors shut, FA's are very busy preparing the aircraft for pax and welcoming/assisting pax get onboard. During the same time, the pilots are preparing the aircraft's systems for flight by programming the FMC, going through their checklists, etc. The fact that this time isn't paid for either of these groups is ridiculous considering it's one of the busiest and more stressful times of the flight.
Yes, they absolutely should. Greeting the passengers is one of their duties, therefore they are working and should be paid. I'm shocked that this is even up for debate.
I think they should get paid during boarding, why shouldn't they.. They need to deal with rude and uncontrollable people wether on flight or (boarding), I don't see anyone else getting spat on, hit, punched, and called names when nut cases are flipping out on board a flight or boarding a flight. Yes, of course they should get paid as well during boarding time.
Have a nice weekend everyone! :)
When your are on the clock you should should be paid. :PERRIOD:
You should learn how to spell...PERIOD:
While I wasn’t aware of this discrimination; I am now. So until this crime resolves itself; I will hand the greeting fa $20 each time I board. Unfortunately; I only fly about every five years.. Steve from Utah
From a pilots perspective...when the union negotiates our contract with the company, obviously they know we aren't on the clock until the door closes (more precisely, when the brakes are released afterwards). That's how they figure out what to bargain for when it comes to the hourly pay rates.
If the clock starts when we sign in at the airport, then that would mean the hourly rate will get reduced since the amount "on the...
From a pilots perspective...when the union negotiates our contract with the company, obviously they know we aren't on the clock until the door closes (more precisely, when the brakes are released afterwards). That's how they figure out what to bargain for when it comes to the hourly pay rates.
If the clock starts when we sign in at the airport, then that would mean the hourly rate will get reduced since the amount "on the clock" will go up. The company doesn't negotiate "We'll pay your union members $50 per hour", they negotiate the total amount they want to spend for the work group, or how much of a raise (%) they willing to give...knowing how much it's going to cost the company overall.
Flight attendants are among the most poorly paid relative to their skills, workload, and stress.
The idea that you don't get paid until the aircraft door closes is also bizarre. You would not tell a nurse or teacher that they only get paid for the actual hours a patient is in a room or students in the class.
The solution, as others below have said, is to have FAs be regularly salaried employees; with...
Flight attendants are among the most poorly paid relative to their skills, workload, and stress.
The idea that you don't get paid until the aircraft door closes is also bizarre. You would not tell a nurse or teacher that they only get paid for the actual hours a patient is in a room or students in the class.
The solution, as others below have said, is to have FAs be regularly salaried employees; with some sliding to allow for number of hours worked/flights flown.
Other than teachers I can't think of
They do get paid for all their time... It is just calculated differently.
If it is a 2 hour flight... add 30 minutes on either side... 3 hours of duty.
Right now... $30/hour for the 2 hour flight... $60.
Change it to $20/hour for the 3 hours duty time... $60.
Pick what you want.
Or keep it $30/hour for every hour worked.
Reading a magazine during the flight... no pay.
On...
They do get paid for all their time... It is just calculated differently.
If it is a 2 hour flight... add 30 minutes on either side... 3 hours of duty.
Right now... $30/hour for the 2 hour flight... $60.
Change it to $20/hour for the 3 hours duty time... $60.
Pick what you want.
Or keep it $30/hour for every hour worked.
Reading a magazine during the flight... no pay.
On your phone... no pay.
Gab fest in the galley... no pay.
Maybe that is the best idea... FA's that actually work the whole flight make more money as they are now getting paid for 30 minutes before and after.
Exactly. I can see how this type of bargaining would go:
Union - we want to be paid for time spent boarding, etc.
Airline - ok, then the hourly rate needs to go down because the hourly rate / flight hour includes compensation for boarding. etc.
Union - no it doesn't
Airline - yes it does.
Are you nuts? I don’t know of any job that docks pay while at the water cooler. Flight attendants are on duty from the first customer coming through the door until they all walk up the people eater to go home or to their residence. And no; I’m not a flight attendant! Steve from Utah
Maybe that would make a little bit of sense if it were actually 30 minutes here and there. But if I have a 9 hour flight day, I basically have a 13 hour duty day. Give or take, but for arguments sake, let’s round it. That’s FOUR extra hours per work day that I’m required to be there and not get paid. If I work 3 days per week (not typical) then that’s TWELVE hours...
Maybe that would make a little bit of sense if it were actually 30 minutes here and there. But if I have a 9 hour flight day, I basically have a 13 hour duty day. Give or take, but for arguments sake, let’s round it. That’s FOUR extra hours per work day that I’m required to be there and not get paid. If I work 3 days per week (not typical) then that’s TWELVE hours per week of unpaid time. Twelve hours is more than most people work in one day.
So let’s just say if we were following your recommendations and it’s my time of the flight where I’m having “a gab fest in the galley” and I’m in the middle of my unpaid time; let’s say you have a heart attack. At that point, should I state that I’m “off the clock” and that this very crucial part of my training doesn’t need to come in to play at this point?! **not that I would ever do that - because I’m a very caring, compassionate and helpful person**. But let’s just say that’s the way it worked out? How do we determine when our down time is and when the no pay time is? We’re on the edge of our seats, paying attention to every single thing that’s happening in that cabin the entire time we’re on that plane, regardless of anything else we may be doing. That’s what we’re trained for. I’m still there not doing things I would be doing if I were really “off”. Should we not be allowed to eat lunch because we’re in the air and getting paid? If I am eating my lunch (typically teetering on my lap beside the continuous opening and closing of a bathroom door) and you rang your call button, I would quickly gather it all up and sit it aside so I can come help you with whatever you need. I do work the whole time I’m on the plane, it’s just broken up into crazy little increments!! Do you ever take a personal phone call at work, or go to the bathroom? Should you be docked that 3 or 4 minutes each time? If you had a client that took up 3 hours of your day while you were at home trying to do your own thing, wouldn’t you eventually be like “this is crazy, I’m not getting paid for all this extra time!”? It all might add up pretty fast. I could go on and on with these scenarios. I can understand (as much as it stinks) not being paid for delays and such while we’re in the airport and off the plane. But if there’s a delay and we’ve already boarded and the passengers are on the plane, we should be getting paid. Boarding and deplaning are part of the job. It’s still the required time that we are required to be there. We obviously aren’t out running errands, doing laundry, spending time with family etc. so we should be paid accordingly for that required time.
Know how much sympathy I have for flight attendants (jail guards) after the last two years?...NONE. You hate us and we hate you back.
seems like a simple solution would be to make FAs and pilots normal, salaried employees. A yearly salary plus bonus. Their work hours are then limited by FAA safety rules, and whatever union negotiates, if any.
Well, they don't do anything in while the air....so we'll just call it even.
You must be referring to some foreign airline. America’s flight attendants work their butts off waiting on nimrods who complain about the airline deciding not to serve alcohol to having to keep their mask on. You would be crying a river if there weren’t flight attendants pampering you. And no, I am not a flight attendant. I just appreciate their work. Steve from Utah
Flight attendants do nothing these days because they're "too afraid". Their pay should reflect that. Funny how they're not "too afraid" to be drinking maskless at the Rock n Brews outside MCO.
Yes flight attendants worked their ass off years ago. Don't know what world you're living in. 98% of the flight attendants today would not make the cut for flight attendants years ago. 70% can't fit down the aisle. Pampered? You must have a very low bar.
Having to resort to a petition by a work group that is unionized by all US large jet airlines except for Delta highlights how ineffective flight attendant unions actually are - and perhaps explains why Delta flight attendants have voted down unionization more times than alot of Americans vote in a presidential election in a lifetime.
And the petition is not even accurate, many (if not most) flight attendants and pilots are paid for...
Having to resort to a petition by a work group that is unionized by all US large jet airlines except for Delta highlights how ineffective flight attendant unions actually are - and perhaps explains why Delta flight attendants have voted down unionization more times than alot of Americans vote in a presidential election in a lifetime.
And the petition is not even accurate, many (if not most) flight attendants and pilots are paid for time away from their base and there is also holding pay for delays that exceed a certain time.
and the biggest irony of all of this is that flight attendant unions are asking for the government to intervene in the collective bargaining process after US flight attendant unions - nearly all of them - have spent the last 2 years arguing about why they can't provide service.
Last I checked, there is not a shortage of flight attendant applicants esp. for the large jet US airlines although that is not true for pilots and mechanics. There are plenty of people that absolutely would love to have pass benefits and see the world in return making a few passes through the cabin, doing a safety demo, and dealing w/ the rare bad person - which also happens at the grocery store, restaurant, or the reception desk.
That would explain why I witnessed a flight attendant help an elderly lady place her small bag in overhead bin by just standing there saying “ you almost have it..push it .. a little more to the left.. you’ve almost got it” and not once put her hands on the bag to assist the lady..nor did those passengers around her.. shameful!..sitting 15 seats back I wanted so much to push my way up to help
You could hear that converstion from 15 rows back? I wish that I had your hearing.
When a flight attendant shows up for work they should be getting paid according. If you have a person getting 15 an hour for makings french fry then take care of the flight attendants .
I’m for it, iff they also commit to serving PDBs. If they’re going to sit and chit chat or play on their phone then no.
All of the AA Donnas love telling us that they are only there for our safety, so the current pay seems perfectly reasonable to me. And, by the way, no one forces them to work as a cabin crew member.
This is quite disappointing to read this. No only is it wrong, it’s morally unethical. This should be addressed immediately by congress or who ever in government is responsible for wages.
Like it or not, if this happens the Execs aren't simply aren't willing to take a paycut, they'll raise fares...
I personally think they should get paid as soon as they stop foot in the airport.
FA's are paid pursuant to the terms of contracts negotiated by a very successful and aggressive union. The bargain the union struck calls for payment only after the door is closed. This no doubt visits inequities on FA's who work shorter flights rather than long hauls. And, no doubt, the more senior hag FA's cherrypick the flights with the most post-door closed time at the expense of more junior FA's.
That inequity is something...
FA's are paid pursuant to the terms of contracts negotiated by a very successful and aggressive union. The bargain the union struck calls for payment only after the door is closed. This no doubt visits inequities on FA's who work shorter flights rather than long hauls. And, no doubt, the more senior hag FA's cherrypick the flights with the most post-door closed time at the expense of more junior FA's.
That inequity is something for FA's to sort out amongst themselves.
Spot on!
It's the same as pilots. They get paid from brake release to brake set.
I think this is ridiculous on the pay front. They should be paid the second they clock in at the gate. If they are required to be there, they should be paid. Period. It is their time you are paying for. If you were an accountant, would you be ok with being paid only when you completed your worksheet and not the research that had gone into it? Would you be ok notbeing paid for...
I think this is ridiculous on the pay front. They should be paid the second they clock in at the gate. If they are required to be there, they should be paid. Period. It is their time you are paying for. If you were an accountant, would you be ok with being paid only when you completed your worksheet and not the research that had gone into it? Would you be ok notbeing paid for setting up the counter or restaurant before it opened only getting a wage when your first diners come in?
Seriously. They should be asking for far more.
They should petition their union rather than the President.
Yes the fat cat that is the union. It’s literally their job to protect the workers interest. The union should be held liable for negotiating on behalf of FAs.
Of course they should be paid for that time.
As you note, if this change were implemented, the pay rate for flight hours would surely lower. But while the average pay might stay about the same, the distribution would change. Senior FAs flying long hauls might have only a single boarding for a 12 hour flight. But a junior FA flying back and forth between DFW and Houston might have have to work a dozen...
Of course they should be paid for that time.
As you note, if this change were implemented, the pay rate for flight hours would surely lower. But while the average pay might stay about the same, the distribution would change. Senior FAs flying long hauls might have only a single boarding for a 12 hour flight. But a junior FA flying back and forth between DFW and Houston might have have to work a dozen boardings for those same flight hours.
Which explains how we got here, and why this push for change is coming from a grass roots petition and not a union negotiation demand. The current system benefits the senior FAs and most hurts the junior ones. And the senior FAs control the unions.
is not the hourly rate part of the negotiations?
Not our issue. When someone accepts and continues employment the terms shouldn’t matter to anyone else as long as they are legal. Anyone who has travel as part of their employment only gets paid for a fraction of their day.
This "anyone" blanket statement is false. Salaried employees like myself get paid for travel days regardless.
YES we DO get those WONDERFUL Benefits but its JUST that BENEFITS!!! Im SURE when you start your job you get paid from the moment you check in. The POINT of this is to say that WE WORK OUR ASS OFF during boarding. If you fly enough you see FIRST HAND what goes on. Would you do that for NOTHING? This is not a conversation that has not just started its been one we have...
YES we DO get those WONDERFUL Benefits but its JUST that BENEFITS!!! Im SURE when you start your job you get paid from the moment you check in. The POINT of this is to say that WE WORK OUR ASS OFF during boarding. If you fly enough you see FIRST HAND what goes on. Would you do that for NOTHING? This is not a conversation that has not just started its been one we have brought to the airlines for years. LESS YOU FORGET ELAINE! People are NOT as cooperative these days....have you SEEN the news what passengers have done to Flight Attendants during boarding nevermind in flight. Your statement sounds like you'd be that BITTER BITCH IN 26C that would have a tantrum when told to put your DAMN MASK ON. Before you say what ANY Flight Attendant doesn't DESERVE, try being in their shoes. I wouldn't give you a HOUR! I am not only a Flight Attendant I am a private pilot. My family traveling or myself on MY TIME has NOTHING to do with me not getting paid during boarding. TRUST WE ARE AWARE what we signed up for. That DOES NOT MEAN THINGS SHOULD NOT CHANGE.
How many hours does a typical FA work in a given week/month? What is the typical salary for a FA with 10 years experience?
This is very much a US-centric practice. Most of the world calculates a duty period from sign-in time (usually between 60-90 minutes prior to first departure) until sign-off time (usually between 30-60 minutes after final arrival). There may be higher pay for actual flight hours in addition to this.
OMG. WTF? LOL!
Come on, this is an irrelevant argument that ought to be settled within the flight attendant unions.
The flight attendants are getting paid. It's just a question of how the pay is being calculated. Unless the flight attendants think that they are living in Lake Wobegon where everyone is above average, and think that the pay rate will stay the same and everyone will get an extra 40 minutes of pay per flight, let's...
Come on, this is an irrelevant argument that ought to be settled within the flight attendant unions.
The flight attendants are getting paid. It's just a question of how the pay is being calculated. Unless the flight attendants think that they are living in Lake Wobegon where everyone is above average, and think that the pay rate will stay the same and everyone will get an extra 40 minutes of pay per flight, let's assume that the total flight attendant compensation will stay the same, and that the hourly rate will be reduced by exactly the right amount to allow the compensation to be calculated starting when passengers board, or even when flight attendants report for duty... would the flight attendants still care for this change? In fact what that would do is to shift some compensation from long haul flying to shorter flights. Do you know why this won't happen? It would shift compensation from the flights that high seniority FAs prefer to flights that low seniority FAs tend to staff. Basically the reason it works they way that it does now is that it penalizes the low seniority and makes them put in their dues so that the system benefits those with increased seniority.
If there is FA whining about this, they need to resolve it in their union and then negotiate it in their next contract. Given that the manner of pay is negotiated between the union and management, this is a union issue.
Be careful what you wish for. If I were an airline I would actually prefer to pay the FAs from the time they report for duty. It seems more fair and creates increased incentive to report for duty on time. And maybe not pay during rest periods. I might prefer the federal government to set these rules. And I will push to keep monthly pay the same by paying a lower hourly rate.
Maybe they should be paid for actual flight time flown and not block time…
It’s not significantly more time for the company to be paying us for boarding. It’s 30-45 minutes per flight, and should begin as soon as the first passenger scans their boarding pass. It is illegal for me to step off of the plane, I should be compensated accordingly.
It would also act as disincentive for the company to board planes that they know aren’t going to depart anytime soon. Often the gate agent will...
It’s not significantly more time for the company to be paying us for boarding. It’s 30-45 minutes per flight, and should begin as soon as the first passenger scans their boarding pass. It is illegal for me to step off of the plane, I should be compensated accordingly.
It would also act as disincentive for the company to board planes that they know aren’t going to depart anytime soon. Often the gate agent will fight with the crew to board an airplane we all know isn’t going anywhere, just so they can get passengers out of the boarding area and out of their hair. If there is financial disincentive to do this, it benefits the passenger as they are not trapped on the airplane sitting at the gate waiting for updates. They can remain in the lounge or access the airport amenities and be much more comfortable not squished into coach for an extra 2 hours.
At the least, they should be paid minimum wage during boarding/deplaning (currently the national minimum wage is $7.25/hr). I’m not sure how it’s legal that they aren’t. They are clearly working. I think bumping it up to minimum wage during boarding makes it so they wouldn’t t have to lower their “door closed” rate of pay. The airline and ticket prices to the customer should be able to absorb this with very little net change...
At the least, they should be paid minimum wage during boarding/deplaning (currently the national minimum wage is $7.25/hr). I’m not sure how it’s legal that they aren’t. They are clearly working. I think bumping it up to minimum wage during boarding makes it so they wouldn’t t have to lower their “door closed” rate of pay. The airline and ticket prices to the customer should be able to absorb this with very little net change in price.
Again, this is the “at the least” solution for this. I would love to see them get paid their regular hourly rate during boarding/deplaning.
If the laws can be changed to make sure they receive at least minimum wage for this part of the flight process, it will also avoid a union negotiation and go into effect when the law goes into effect.
When I worked at AA in 1990s, the SVP of Flight Service explained the FA compensation model to me... He said essentially that the monthly pay is calculated based on flight hours, but the crew are on duty from the moment they sign in for their first leg, until arriving back at base after the final flight. So they are indeed compensated for time on duty. I've heard the whining also about "not being paid...
When I worked at AA in 1990s, the SVP of Flight Service explained the FA compensation model to me... He said essentially that the monthly pay is calculated based on flight hours, but the crew are on duty from the moment they sign in for their first leg, until arriving back at base after the final flight. So they are indeed compensated for time on duty. I've heard the whining also about "not being paid for boarding," but it just demonstrates the lack of understanding about how pay is calculated.
Carl,
You can say they’re being compensated for time on duty, but the reporting needs to be changed then and the “true” wage needs to be stated. Flight attendants make $28+ an hour while in air. So you’re arguing that they don’t have an “understanding” about how they are compensated. What it really is, is they are being paid, let’s say $17.50 an hour all in, and that’s how it should be stated. Essentially, you...
Carl,
You can say they’re being compensated for time on duty, but the reporting needs to be changed then and the “true” wage needs to be stated. Flight attendants make $28+ an hour while in air. So you’re arguing that they don’t have an “understanding” about how they are compensated. What it really is, is they are being paid, let’s say $17.50 an hour all in, and that’s how it should be stated. Essentially, you are saying that flight attendants should understand that their hourly rate is bogus and is being disguised as better than it really is.
Agreed. A much fairer compensation model would be to pay an hourly wage based on the entire trip, from sign-in, to home arrival. Or possibly ground time at one rate, and then a higher rate the moment they step on the aircraft? Like much of the legacy airline industry, the current model is evolutionary based on 1950s operations. A revamp is probably long overdue.
Carl you are not necessarily incorrect, but the crew compensation model you are referencing means we are guaranteed 50% of the time we are on duty. That means I could be at work for 14 hours, only fly 5 hours, and be compensated for 7. No other industry pays staff 50% of their wage just because they weren’t doing a specific task while they were uniformed and on duty.
No....we're mostly just road warriors who see flight attendants for what they are......worthless.
FA’s should be paid as soon as they clock in at the airport, with all the prep they do prior to passengers boarding it’s ridiculous that companies are taking advantage. However I think the layovers need looking at on long haul flights. Virgin Atlantic crew have recently complained that the layover on east and west coast US flights has been reduced from 2 days to 1 which I think is reasonable.
This is the case even in the UK I believe so not USA specific. As doors can be kept open if there's a long delay I feel they should be paid from when they turn up at work. (yes, I'd pay more for my fare to make this happen).
I think flight attendants should be paid for every moment they are required to be somewhere by their employer, IE: the second they have to be at the airport. That’s what happens at virtually every other hourly job…and it’s appropriate. I’m guessing anyone (not talking about salaried or those paid by day/project) would go ballistic if they weren’t paid for time they were working.
Why shouldn't flight attendants be comparable to salaried workers? Their overall salary is not so low .
Some make less than 18k a year
As a retired flight attendant, Hell Yes they should be paid.
You state they are "way under paid" without ever listing average salaries or hourly rates. From the article I have no idea if that is true. Do some actual research before writing something like this.
American labor laws never cease to amaze me... Of course they should be paid during boarding!
All the best from Yurp.