Introduction
Review: Qantas First Class Lounge Los Angeles
Review: British Airways Business Class A380 Los Angeles To London
Review: The Park Tower Knightsbridge, London
Review: British Airways Galleries First Lounge London Heathrow
Review: British Airways Business Class 777 London To Los Angeles
What Did Ford Think Of British Airways Club World?
As I’ve written about in the recent trip report, my boyfriend Ford and I went to London for Thanksgiving, and flew British Airways there. I shared my thoughts on the experience, though I thought it would be interesting for Ford to share his perception of the experience as well.
For a bit of background, prior to this trip, Ford’s only “true” premium cabin experiences were in Emirates and Cathay Pacific first class. So perhaps it’s my fault for taking him in two of the world’s best first class products to begin with, and then taking one of my least favorite business class products. Oops. 😉
Stay tuned for more from Ford, and in the meantime you can follow him on Instagram.
Ben and I flew to London for Thanksgiving (perhaps the least patriotic of locales to celebrate) to see a number of my close friends. Most of them hold Thanksgiving dinners despite being foreign. It’s refreshing to know gratitude and thankfulness are international traits. So I will say that Ben and I are both grateful for the privilege to fly and travel, at all, let alone primarily in premium cabins, before I descend into a little rant. On that note…
After flying British Airways’ Club World, their Business Class product, I literally couldn’t help but write a post. Seriously, I cannot internalize these feelings any longer or I might get high blood pressure.
When we stepped aboard British Airways’ BA268 from Los Angeles to London, my first question was, “if this is business, what is economy?” Upon our return on BA283, my question became even more relevant, when the configuration in the cabin went from a disappointing 2-3-2 to a shameful 2-4-2. Seriously, can you get any worse than that for business class? People ostensibly paid thousands of dollars for a seat in what I would call a flatbed premium economy, at best. To be honest, British Airways should be embarrassed to hold themselves in such high esteem with such an egregious product. Didn’t anyone tell them that hubris is a Cardinal Sin?
Upon return on BA283, the gentleman seated in 10K, a window seat, in front of my aisle seat, 11J, was shocked to discover that he would have to climb over me in order to use the restroom or access the aisle. “This isn’t any good. Something is wrong here!” I explained that something was indeed very wrong, a realization I had only had after flying to London a few days earlier. He had his wife switch with him since she was a bit more nimble, but she still woke me up when she got up to use the restroom, despite doing her best not to. I don’t blame her at all. I blame the airline!
I recently had a friend who was outraged when she missed a flight from Boston to London on BA and was rebooked in Business as opposed to First Class, which she had initially reserved. While I adore this friend, she is admittedly a tad of a princess, so I thought she was exaggerating the difference in quality between Business and First. When I arrived in London and explained how thoroughly unimpressed I was with BA’s “Club World,” she gasped, “See! Now you understand why I was so bloody pissed!”
Beyond the details of the crappy seat, which Ben has enumerated in other posts, I was also amazed at the quality, or lack thereof, of the onboard service. Where do I begin?
To be honest, it’s hard to keep track since pretty much everything that can be wrong with the service was wrong – on both flights. I will say, however, that on the return flight the attitude of the flight attendants was a tad friendlier, although they still remained clueless and confused as to what was on the menu and looked at us as though we had multiple heads if we ordered a “salad” for the main course, as was printed as an option on the menu. Perhaps they should take 60 seconds to read the menu before they ask people what they’d like to eat from it?
On our flight to London, the flight attendant literally asked the man seated across from me to get out of his seat and close the bin because she couldn’t do it herself. I won’t take this opportunity to bash the fitness of the crew, but I will say that it isn’t so much a single act, like asking the man to close the bin himself, that is so atrocious as it is the lack of professionalism and service in the aggregate – her cluelessness as to what was on the menu, the way in which she tossed Ben’s mini liquor bottle at him, her condescending attitude whenever we asked for anything, and her clear desire to do nothing other than make sure our seatbelts were fastened for takeoff and landing. Remember folks, BA flight attendants are primarily there for your safety, and they’ll let you know it!
In summary, don’t waste your money or miles on BA Business Class ticket unless it’s practically free or your expectations are a glorified economy class. In that case, it would only be a slight letdown. Given what we paid, I’d say it was quite a good value… but we did only pay marginally more than what economy would have cost.
I strongly feel that this review only paints such a negative picture because it was written in the heat of the moment while you were angry and annoyed at the flight. As a future tip, good journalism in any field involves not being overwhelmed by your emotions and taking time out to write a considered response.
For the record, I have travelled in every long haul BA cabin from WT to F. I definitely...
I strongly feel that this review only paints such a negative picture because it was written in the heat of the moment while you were angry and annoyed at the flight. As a future tip, good journalism in any field involves not being overwhelmed by your emotions and taking time out to write a considered response.
For the record, I have travelled in every long haul BA cabin from WT to F. I definitely agree with you on some fronts, their service and hard product can be extremely lacking, especially when compared to some of the other offerings out there. That being said , anyone who has spent 9 hours plus in WT will tell you they would pay anything if they could to upgrade to CW. If you think the legroom, pressure on your knees, general claustrophobia, inedible food and screaming children is not that different to an experience in CW then you are deluding yourself.
It is also important to not make generalised comments based on one experience of bad service. I had one of the most insufferable crews ever when flying BA First , with a CSD who had the cheek to tell me to be quiet when I asked for a drink of water and refused to bring me an extra pillow when the one they had gave me was flimsy and flat. Safe to say I too was very angry after that flight , but at the same time appreciate it is not reflective of their general service. Indeed, when I flew WT+ a few months later I had an excellent crew that happily brought me whatever I needed.
Another thing I think needs to be stressed in such reviews is not to fall into the trap of making false comparisons. If your first experiences were in emirates and Cathay first then naturally the bar has been set as high as it can for commercial air travel and any further experience is likely to be worse. But comparing the two is impossible. For starters if you're flying BA J then the likelihood is that you are not paying anything near what you would pay for F in Cathay and Emirates. Secondly , when flying transatlantic out of London you don't even have the options of those carriers. It would be much more practical and useful if you compared the product specifically to other carriers servicing that route and furthermore based on value as well , which is a hugely important consideration. If money and route was no objected then of course we would all fly EK or SQ first, but at the end of the day we are not in some sort of air travel utopia. If I had the choice to fly BA J for a few thousand pounds less than the 'best' offering, I would probably choose it and the lower service and product reflect that.
This trip report is a joke. You have flown a couple of times on some of the top airlines premium cabins, so they cannot be compared anyway. How you can compare BA Club to any economy seat is beyond me, it beats AA and United hands down, has a fully lat bed, decent food and mostly a friendly crew.
Try fly MH A330 2-2-2 angle flat
Try SQ A330 2-2-2 angle flat.
Not nice when you depart at midnight and land in Australia after a mere 4-5 hours "sleep"
Try US airways trans Atlantic 757
Try AA transatlantic 757
Then complain about BA.
So where is the engagement of Ben and Ford with the readers/commenters?
Let's face it. This was all planned to generate page views and $. We all fell for it!
Loved reading these comments - such fun. I do agree that the new AA 77 J experience crossing the pond is better than the BA J experience, but otherwise...
Oh Ford...
I don't think there's that much homophobia on here - and I've been at the receiving end of it for many years so sort of know it when I see it. As an old Queen myself I also know a Princess when I see...
Loved reading these comments - such fun. I do agree that the new AA 77 J experience crossing the pond is better than the BA J experience, but otherwise...
Oh Ford...
I don't think there's that much homophobia on here - and I've been at the receiving end of it for many years so sort of know it when I see it. As an old Queen myself I also know a Princess when I see one. Or read one.
I did find the travel4b's comment regarding Ben rather throwing Ford to the wolves with this piece interesting.
SMH at most of the comments on here.
On a brighter note, brace yourselves for the big airline news coming any day now :-)
From the number of comments on here, their readership seems to spike sky high from each one of these BA related posts. Am I the only one here to read the comments? Quite amusing actually.
That been said, I'm dying to read an economy class review on OMAAT especially Lucky's last AA trans-atlantic upgrade was cleared.
Perhaps all those irrationally infatuated with Lucky who continually post "if you don't like it, don't read it" would like to take their own advice and stop reading the comments?
While it's rare that I'll find a relevant article for me on here any more, they do still exist and I (just about!) still like reading the opinion pieces like this. I therefore see no issues with continuing to read the site and voicing...
Perhaps all those irrationally infatuated with Lucky who continually post "if you don't like it, don't read it" would like to take their own advice and stop reading the comments?
While it's rare that I'll find a relevant article for me on here any more, they do still exist and I (just about!) still like reading the opinion pieces like this. I therefore see no issues with continuing to read the site and voicing any disagreement on here. Several people are completely out of line, but the vast majority are just giving a negative opinion of the articles - which as a Lucky is effectively a professional journalist who has been made rich from this, seems a perfectly valid thing to do. No matter how much you may obsess over him!
"Lets focus on the issues( airlines services, hard products in different classes, aircraft types and pricing) rather than personality, sexuality, race or gendar."
That ship sailed a long time ago. And not just from the comments section, but also from Lucky's actual posts themselves. Granted, race not so much. That is how he has chosen to brand and market his image and blog.
@Shannon: One of the main reasons people love Lucky's blog is the lack of censorship in the comments section, which speaks to Ben's maturity and confidence. He sets the bar very high (or rather ... low) for what's tolerable. As long as comments do not venture into violence, threats or the grossly obscene, they're passed. A few of us use words like "queen" or "princess" in reference to some of these guys' picky tastes and...
@Shannon: One of the main reasons people love Lucky's blog is the lack of censorship in the comments section, which speaks to Ben's maturity and confidence. He sets the bar very high (or rather ... low) for what's tolerable. As long as comments do not venture into violence, threats or the grossly obscene, they're passed. A few of us use words like "queen" or "princess" in reference to some of these guys' picky tastes and dispositions; these words are not derogoratory and are not used to attack their personal character. Rather, the criticisms are all related in some aspect to the referenced article. I can refer you to some truly homophobic terms if your head is buried that deep in the sand.
Wish list for Lucky's 2016 reports:
1. Go Go dancers on LH F class during next year's Berlin gay pride week.
2. Stage dancers (female) on Brussels Air for Tomorrowland 2016 ... mere DJ's are just so passé.
C'mon Shannon, this was no worse than when his mom wrote the post including the quote "maybe she was on her period"... If nothing else, the standards have remained consistent since then. :)
A new low of this blog. If you can't maintain basic standard for this blog, please shut it down.
Of all the things that were said in this comments section, I got an especially hearty chuckle from this one:
"5. FA’s 30% above average, 70% below average."
I am pretty new here. I have to say I am amazed with different comments. Lets focus on the issues( airlines services, hard products in different classes, aircraft types and pricing) rather than personality, sexuality, race or gendar. End of the day we all passionate about flying, don't we?
Btw I found Ben and Ford are pretty cute!
I am disgusted at some of the comments on this post! If you don't like Ford's comments please choose not to read this blog anymore, I don't see why it matters that Ben and Ford are gay, I think some people are so low.
The best part of posts from Ford are the comments.
@Aaron,
Thank you for saying it first.
@Mark F.,
Puhleez. If 90% of those comments that have gotten you all jacked up weren't from gay guys I'll give up Bravo for a year.
Ben, I'm surprised you are attracted to him. But we all are attracted to different kinds.
I used to be a regular reader, but rarely visit anymore. This entry is a prime example... it shows how creatively spent Lucky has become.
Wow - the trolls are out in force today.
Ford - good job calling out a subpar product. Anyone that argues otherwise is lying to themself.
@Mark F.
As a gay man myself, all I can say is "Oh honey, cut the drama".
Oh, Ford, I think you would be better off saying BA failed to meet expectations. (This is how I always feel when I step off of UA Global First, or, for that matter, the pathetic Global First lounge at IAD - I'm not that high maintenance, and often manage nicely in Y, but when I am built up for something special, I am disappointed when it is not delievered.
BA trailblazed business class 15 or...
Oh, Ford, I think you would be better off saying BA failed to meet expectations. (This is how I always feel when I step off of UA Global First, or, for that matter, the pathetic Global First lounge at IAD - I'm not that high maintenance, and often manage nicely in Y, but when I am built up for something special, I am disappointed when it is not delievered.
BA trailblazed business class 15 or so years ago, changing the game entirely, but they have not kept up. And from what you and Lucky have indicated, the help was "having a bad day", so to say. To that end, I note that you say "Seriously, can you get any worse than that for business class?". Um, yes you can - think any business class cabin in the air when you were in grade school.
Fred, above, said:
"SingLah says: …. 'I’m just curious who is the top/bottom in your relationship?'
"Wow, no matter what you think of the review or this site, this is totally uncalled for. This review should be deleted and the author banned from future comments."
I think, at bottom, whether to delete is within editorial discretion. My opinion is that so long as words do not solicit violence, it is better to keep them up...
Fred, above, said:
"SingLah says: …. 'I’m just curious who is the top/bottom in your relationship?'
"Wow, no matter what you think of the review or this site, this is totally uncalled for. This review should be deleted and the author banned from future comments."
I think, at bottom, whether to delete is within editorial discretion. My opinion is that so long as words do not solicit violence, it is better to keep them up as examples of what vulgar things craven people, hiding behind their computer screens, are willing to say. Otherwise, we would hardly know it actually occurs.
Just seeing the guys Picture and reading the first three lines (and stopping to read) I knew comments would be good! Was not disappointed,
The post was useless, OK, no big deal. The issue is we all had a GF that messed us up a bit, and the fact that Ben allowed this post to make it on the blog is not good in my opinion. You can see clearly this is a bad business / pleasure mix up.
be strong Ben!
I wonder how so many took for granted that Ben paid for the ticket, instead of Ford himself. Just by Ford's physical appearance, perhaps?
Back to the article, I feel the service indeed sounded worse than most of economy class I've flown, though the seats were better. So overall I don't see anything wrong with the Ford's comparison of BA CW to Y, since personally I value service a lot, even in Y.
@Mark F:
+1
@Stephan: You wrote "Ford can state his opinion here if Ben wishes, but the replies are just as valid."
"THE" replies? All of them?
How convenient for you that none of them were offensive to you. Some were, to me.
Mean people suck.
@Stephan and others;
What is getting old is when people criticize gay men by calling them 'princess' and 'queen' and discuss their sexual habits in posts about an airline review. Do these same posters use the same terms to refer to straight bloggers that they disagree with? If they disagreed with Tiffany's husband on a review, would they ask him his sexual position? That's ridiculous. If they disagreed with a straight blogger's opinions on...
@Stephan and others;
What is getting old is when people criticize gay men by calling them 'princess' and 'queen' and discuss their sexual habits in posts about an airline review. Do these same posters use the same terms to refer to straight bloggers that they disagree with? If they disagreed with Tiffany's husband on a review, would they ask him his sexual position? That's ridiculous. If they disagreed with a straight blogger's opinions on here (like Mike's), would they refer to them as 'entitled queens' or 'a bit of a princess'?
I find that insulting to gays, and I don't accept being referred to that way in person, nor do I think its ok in a blog in 2015 to consider these derogatory terms as a perfectly acceptable way to refer to gay men that one disagrees with.
You find the claims of 'homophobia' tiring? I find the actual derogatory comments towards gay men on here even more tiring.
"Didn’t anyone tell them that hubris is a Cardinal Sin?"
Trying to be ironic, are we?
I cannot enumerate how often I've seen egregious being used recently, but it's getting to the point of being egregious in itself.
PS: See that - it's "in itself" not "in and of itself". Tut!
Thank you Ford and Ben for sharing your personal experiences on BA. It helps as I didn't know what to take between BA and AA for my coming transatlantic flights. A 2-4-2 configuration in 2015 is a disaster.
I do share Ben and Ford comments on their BA experience! I had some bad experience with BA economy in the past. So I decide to try BA club world, same experience! Finally I tried BA first, guess what? Similar service experience!
The hard products are different between economy, club world and first, but the BA long haul crews are making sure you feel you are nobody across all classes! I have to say...
I do share Ben and Ford comments on their BA experience! I had some bad experience with BA economy in the past. So I decide to try BA club world, same experience! Finally I tried BA first, guess what? Similar service experience!
The hard products are different between economy, club world and first, but the BA long haul crews are making sure you feel you are nobody across all classes! I have to say BA domestic and Europe staff are different. Club world has 2-4-2 arrangement, I don't think any other major airlines have same configuration in business class!
Everyone is entitled to have a view on their travel experience including inexperienced premier cabin flyer like Ford!
Lol the BA apologists are out in force. I thought I was on the FT BA board for a moment.
Ford, how dare you have a negative opinion of BA CW. It's a crap product with crap service. What's not to like?
I actually agree with Ford regarding British Airways' Club World. I actually choose to fly Premium Economy over Club World on a number of transatlantic flights on BA because CW simply doesn't worthy of that extra $$$. Out of all the OW airlines, BA's Club World remains my least favorite. I have one upcoming CW flight but it is just because of availability on this Finnair's YYZ/JFK to BKK fares, but at least it is...
I actually agree with Ford regarding British Airways' Club World. I actually choose to fly Premium Economy over Club World on a number of transatlantic flights on BA because CW simply doesn't worthy of that extra $$$. Out of all the OW airlines, BA's Club World remains my least favorite. I have one upcoming CW flight but it is just because of availability on this Finnair's YYZ/JFK to BKK fares, but at least it is only six hours long from YYZ to LHR. For the rest of the three long haul segments, I get to fly Finnair A350 suites and A330 lie flat seats.
However I am actually surprised to read about the F/As, which is unfortunate.
Thanks Ford for sharing your comments!
Adrian
Ok some of the comments here are just dumb.. I have only flown in SQ Biz and Eva biz and I can tell you right now without sitting BA biz that it is crap... any config that is not 4 in a row max is crap... end of story.
If Ford gets to ride Lucky's tailfeather (pun intended) and enjoy J & F classes for free, I reckon Ben's "topping" more often than not.
Both are privileged, entitled queens but that results in the highly detailed reports coming out of this blog, which are appreciated by many.
I never planned on flying BA b/c of fuel surcharges, but for the 7 1/2 hour flight I took 2 weeks ago from ORD-LHR, I was completely content with BA as my first business class long-haul. Really great food, comfortable seats, and attentive service. I wished the flight had been longer.
@Michael above summarizes BA J nicely. That's pretty much all one needs to know.
The rest of this was a whole lot of hyperbole. No two ways about it, and it DOES reflect a change on this blog of late, as others have pointed out.
And...can we drop the whole "homophobia" BS please? It's getting old.
Ford can state his opinion here if Ben wishes, but the replies are just as valid.
As a HR professional (yep dull as it gets), a little advice; always separate the professional from the personal. Nothing against the gent in your life however employing a family member, never ever goes well.
I read all 96 comments and I regret I'll never get those brain cells back.
The only thing I can fault Ford and Lucky for is flying to LHR in the first place.
Nothing good comes from British, including this piece of crap airline British Crapline.
"Ford is only writing about his experience in J class. He paid for it and whether is was $50 or $50k"
Didn't Lucky pay for it?
I'm glad people are saying they appreciate Ford's opinion, but what has he offered in his revie...sorry, opinions, that Lucy hasn't already?
Joe is right. Lucky is smart a guy. I think he purposefully picks not only items which post, but the tone of the post as well,...
"Ford is only writing about his experience in J class. He paid for it and whether is was $50 or $50k"
Didn't Lucky pay for it?
I'm glad people are saying they appreciate Ford's opinion, but what has he offered in his revie...sorry, opinions, that Lucy hasn't already?
Joe is right. Lucky is smart a guy. I think he purposefully picks not only items which post, but the tone of the post as well, to maximize as many people clicking and commenting as possible. The more we do, the more money he gets. Someone mentioned Lucky should take down certain comments. Yeah, right! Every comment he removes means less revenue from this site. He gets paid per number of comments and adclicks, regardless of whether or not the comments are positive. Financially, better to have 80 negative comments than 20 good ones, I suppose. If anything, Lucky is probably laughing all the way to bank while reading the comments section here...
Yes, Lucky is free to do what he wants. But this "rich kid of Instagram lite" shtick might get him revenue now, but we'll have to see how it affects things for this site in the long term.
Wow, so much hate and vitriol. Come on, let the guy have his opinion. BA is complete trash. Anyone who is a frequent flyer to London knows this. Heck, I am a frequent Aeroflot flyer, and even their business class is better than BA, which is a joke. Those of you bashing Ben or Ford about "travelling for free, so they shouldn't be so critical" are clueless. Let me tell you, flying is never free,...
Wow, so much hate and vitriol. Come on, let the guy have his opinion. BA is complete trash. Anyone who is a frequent flyer to London knows this. Heck, I am a frequent Aeroflot flyer, and even their business class is better than BA, which is a joke. Those of you bashing Ben or Ford about "travelling for free, so they shouldn't be so critical" are clueless. Let me tell you, flying is never free, even on points or miles. You have to spend money to earn them. How many countless times has Ben paid for business or first-class tickets? Quite a few times. If you pay for a product, be it with cash or miles, you should receive good service....Bottom line. If the service falls below the norm or expected standard, you have a right to be critical. As much as Ben is critical, he also points out countless times when the service is excellent. I use his reviews to decide which product to fly, and I personally want to know which airlines have good services and hard products, as well as who doesn't. Thanks for the honest reviews, and keep them coming!!!
Ford, Ford, Ford!!!! C'mon!!!!! Your name is Ford, not BMW or Porsche. You cannot compare a Ford to a Porsche. They simply are not comparable. Thus, please do not compare any business class seat to an economy class. Next time fly BA cattle class and I cannot wait for your review. :)
I've read the blog for years and love much of what's on here, including many of the reviews. Yes, I realize they are to places/hotels and in cabins I will never fly, but that's part of the appeal for me. But, and maybe it has something to do with the introduction of Ford, I've found the content to rival that of TPG of late (I blog I used to love and now cannot stand). Too...
I've read the blog for years and love much of what's on here, including many of the reviews. Yes, I realize they are to places/hotels and in cabins I will never fly, but that's part of the appeal for me. But, and maybe it has something to do with the introduction of Ford, I've found the content to rival that of TPG of late (I blog I used to love and now cannot stand). Too much outsourcing to lots of other people without the same amount of talent and experience as Ben/Brian, and way too much of the "look at me, my life is so amazing!" variety. Maybe that's also why I'm finding Ford's contributions to be more galling to me as well - it's part and parcel of the "OMG I'm in a relationship this is so amazing now!"
Ben, stick to what brung you here.
Finally, and unfortunately, all of the negative comments on here (mine included, I realize) are just feeding the fire and providing more clickbait/revenue. If we all are so upset, we need to stop reading and supporting that lifestyle. And supporting other lifestyles that involve, you know, actually working for a living.
My only comment is that BA is a profitable airline with no hidden subsidies.
They are clearly doing something right.
My goodness, so many insecure people bashing Ford. Why would anybody care what Ford thinks about BA Business Class. Who cares???
After flying BA Business Class this past June (SFO-LHR), I do agree with his assessment. Fortunately for me the service was not bad. I am used to flying CX and SQ Business Class to Asia, so I did not have my hopes up when I flew BA. What annoyed me was how narrow...
My goodness, so many insecure people bashing Ford. Why would anybody care what Ford thinks about BA Business Class. Who cares???
After flying BA Business Class this past June (SFO-LHR), I do agree with his assessment. Fortunately for me the service was not bad. I am used to flying CX and SQ Business Class to Asia, so I did not have my hopes up when I flew BA. What annoyed me was how narrow the seat was and how bad the quality of the monitor was. Thankfully I flew First Class on the way back and it was FAR superior. Unlike on SQ where I don't think there is much difference between Business Class and First Class.
You write beautifully Ford (another reason Ben is called "Lucky"). Looking forward to your next review.
After reading Ben and Ford's reviews and some of the comments of their fanboys I can understand why FAs can sometimes be miserable.
Imagine having to cater to these self-obsessed, pretentious whiners.
Someone earlier suggested that Ford might have expected better service because the FAs were generally older gay males. I would imagine that older gay males have seen this kind of bitter, ugly guy and have absolutely no use for catering to such nonsense.
For those bashing young Ford for having the audacity to compare BA Biz to "glorified economy", the truth is, he's right. BA's business class product is only a bit better than most premium economy products, albeit with lie flat seats). Certainly, the service described can only be called abysmal. I've had better service in economy. Hell, I've had better service on Frontier (and that's saying something). Certainly, if I'm going to pay a 700% premium,...
For those bashing young Ford for having the audacity to compare BA Biz to "glorified economy", the truth is, he's right. BA's business class product is only a bit better than most premium economy products, albeit with lie flat seats). Certainly, the service described can only be called abysmal. I've had better service in economy. Hell, I've had better service on Frontier (and that's saying something). Certainly, if I'm going to pay a 700% premium, I expect a better experience all around. Perhaps the issue is that BA's economy product is so bad that this horrible biz class IS a 700% improvement, in which I have only two words...Virgin Atlantic.
Holy,
Some of you need to relax. The article was one person's experience. That's all. Trashing someone's write up about his personal experience is idiotic. If you didn't like the article, go to the next one or take a nap. You don't have to bully someone for zero reason.
I may be way off base here, but I'm a little sad about this review.
It seems to me that Lucky, as "teacher", shared his expert criticisms right off the bat to try to teach Ford about trip reviews/critiques. (It may seem like a good experience, but it's really not and here's why you shouldn't be tricked.) Ford is bright, and has observed these shortcomings right away, as a quick learner. He now points out...
I may be way off base here, but I'm a little sad about this review.
It seems to me that Lucky, as "teacher", shared his expert criticisms right off the bat to try to teach Ford about trip reviews/critiques. (It may seem like a good experience, but it's really not and here's why you shouldn't be tricked.) Ford is bright, and has observed these shortcomings right away, as a quick learner. He now points out faults nearly as quickly as his teacher.
The part that's sad? Lucky never let Ford go through the organic "OMG, this is amazing" phase that - fess up - we've all gone through when moving up front. It's only over multiple flights that the jaded comments start to develop, if at all. He had to immediately jump to critic status, it would seem.
It seems that Ford has been robbed of that "WOW" experience and has gone directly to whiner. How sad.
Dang! I did it again. Wasted 15 minutes of my life reading the comments when I knew how vapid they'd be after a post like this. No one to blame but myself.
I'm reading these comments and I am getting a chuckle out of it. Looks like BA got their friends and family to write these comments. Seriously, it is these bloggers opinions. That is it. They are not advocating anarchy or threatening the lives of the FAs. They felt they had crappy service and the plane seats weren't configured well. Whatever. Anyone wants to sing the praises of BA? Get your own blog and tell people...
I'm reading these comments and I am getting a chuckle out of it. Looks like BA got their friends and family to write these comments. Seriously, it is these bloggers opinions. That is it. They are not advocating anarchy or threatening the lives of the FAs. They felt they had crappy service and the plane seats weren't configured well. Whatever. Anyone wants to sing the praises of BA? Get your own blog and tell people how awesome your experience was or post how awesome your experience was on the comments section. It's so childish to attack these guys for writing their personal opinion. If people are too sensitive, don't read the blogs. Everyone is so butthurt today and I don't know if it's funny or sad. Maybe a little of both.
Jesus.
I don't think I have disliked the comments section to a post more than I have this one--and I have been reading this blog a long time.
Did Ben say this was a review? No. Did Ford admit that this was a rant? Yes. Do I find the conclusion not to waste my money / points on BA a reasonable one? Yes.
I have generally enjoyed Ford's posts, and I hope that the reaction to this one doesn't deter future ones.
Nice review Ford. Not going to join in the comment kerfuffle but will pop some corn to watch the drama. All I'll point out is that photo of Ford on the top...looks like someone didn't feel like taking one. ;)
I don't understand. Sure, business class is well above many people's budget. Flying in business class (even if it is not Emirates or Singapore) is miles ahead of any economy class product. Part of the appeal of posts like this is that people who fly almost exclusively economy (like myself) know which business class products are worth redeeming.
There's nothing snobbish or pretentious about this.
I am cornholio.
Dylan I'd read your reports. Sorry to hear about your food poisoning. Dreadful business.
Pros & Cons Club World
Pro:
1. UD on A380 window seats have side lockers. Lots of storage and a better sense of space.
2. Seat in recline mode for Westbound trips very comfortable, like a comfy recliner
3. Footrest is really good design. Feet are not confined in compartment. Flexible placing of legs/feet feels like sitting on sofa. Best design of any J product.
4. Food & drink quality are...
Pros & Cons Club World
Pro:
1. UD on A380 window seats have side lockers. Lots of storage and a better sense of space.
2. Seat in recline mode for Westbound trips very comfortable, like a comfy recliner
3. Footrest is really good design. Feet are not confined in compartment. Flexible placing of legs/feet feels like sitting on sofa. Best design of any J product.
4. Food & drink quality are above average
5. Great storage for shoes - convenient tray with easy access
Cons:
1. Climb over design. Really Awkward.
2. Facing seat mate, retractable screen. Shitty, uncomfortable and effects service quality when sitting at window. FA's even struggle with it.
3. Seat shell has a fixed plastic barrier in the headspace blocking window and/or creating sense of boxed in claustraphobia.
4. No overhead personal lighting, only a small LED reading light built into headspace of seat. Dark on nightflights.
5. FA's 30% above average, 70% below average. Unispiring service generally, also they seem harried and dont behave very J like - coach mentality. And I agree they often do not know the food and drink menu at all.
For TATL EU trips Compare BA CW to AA, LH, UA, VS, NZ, LX, AF, KL, DL. I would choose NZ, LX if EU carrier or UA, AA if US carrier.
Well Ford, since there ain't that many difference in BA Y and J, why don't you and Ben save some money and fly economy instead? You know, it is not that much different.
Oh wait, maybe you are flying because you are crediting this to AA or AS to earn elite status and get more points so you can redeem for your truly loved EY and EK!!
Can't believe you started complaining after...
Well Ford, since there ain't that many difference in BA Y and J, why don't you and Ben save some money and fly economy instead? You know, it is not that much different.
Oh wait, maybe you are flying because you are crediting this to AA or AS to earn elite status and get more points so you can redeem for your truly loved EY and EK!!
Can't believe you started complaining after so little time in premium cabin!!! Remember your days in economy? Well, I thought that was what you are going to write.
And by the way, don't compare J to F - it's like comparing economy to business... Everyone knows there is a huge difference... Oh wait, you though BA j and Y are not that different...
Damn y'all demolished that boy. Not saying he doesn't deserve it but wow. Generally speaking I like the posts from Ford, giving a perspective from the lay person regarding premium travel, but he tried hopping Ben's bandwagon on this one against BA and seemingly fell on his face.
I hope he reevaluates his position.
Um, this is not the author's third time in a premium cabin. With the obvious silver spoon he grew up with, I doubt he's ever even seen coach.
Saying people who dislike this post are homophobic is absolutely ridiculous and completely non-sense. Defensive people, get a life.
Ridiculous hyperbole does nothing to help your case, Ford. "egregious" and "shameful" to describe a Business Class airline product?? I truly hope the remainder of your life is as pampered, sheltered, and easy as it apparently has been thus far, if a not-quite-perfect Business Class experience garners such adjectives. I hope you never have to seen children orphaned by war; villages decimated by disease; animals abused for profit; people executed for political beliefs, and many...
Ridiculous hyperbole does nothing to help your case, Ford. "egregious" and "shameful" to describe a Business Class airline product?? I truly hope the remainder of your life is as pampered, sheltered, and easy as it apparently has been thus far, if a not-quite-perfect Business Class experience garners such adjectives. I hope you never have to seen children orphaned by war; villages decimated by disease; animals abused for profit; people executed for political beliefs, and many other things that deserve language like that.
Opinions are just that and Ford is entitled to his. But if Ben intends to continue and grow OMAAT as a professional entity with *useful* and *rational* trip reports and product reviews, I'd advise against more posts such as this one.
Oh and the remark directed towards BA about the Cardinal Sin is hubris, certainly shows that Ford lacks any sense of irony.
To be honest, I didn't even get to the end of this piece, but if this is the new standard of writing on OMAAT I won't be coming back, totally infantile. BA CW is well into the bottom half of the long haul J's globally (speaking as a BA Gold!) but I'm afraid the comparisons here make you sound like a spoilt brat.
Wow, BA Club is far from being the worst business class product out there and a million miles from an economy or premium economy product. Don't like climbing over someone's legs to get out, try sitting in the window in a 2-2-2 configuration or worse the dreaded middle seat in a 2-3-2 config still found on American.
Yes the BA seat is getting dated now, but the airline hasn't had the benefit of Chapter 11...
Wow, BA Club is far from being the worst business class product out there and a million miles from an economy or premium economy product. Don't like climbing over someone's legs to get out, try sitting in the window in a 2-2-2 configuration or worse the dreaded middle seat in a 2-3-2 config still found on American.
Yes the BA seat is getting dated now, but the airline hasn't had the benefit of Chapter 11 to allow it to write of debts and invest in new aircraft and seats, it's becoming profitable the hard way. There have been plenty of reports of new seats being patented by BA so clearly they are looking at improving but for now it is a perfectly comfortable and serviceable Business class seat.
And it's not as is you didn't know what you would be getting when you booked it so this whole shock and appealing act feels a little put on to me and degrades the value of the blog and makes me wonder if the poor service reported is being exaggerated somewhat to complete the BA is terrible picture trying very hard to be painted. Poor.
@Amtexfly~ BA awards are freely available all over the place all the time due to their horrendous surcharges, plus the fact they are generally the airline of last resort if you have left your travel to the last minute. Nothing to do with BA generousity!
Yep, Ford provides a very accurate description of Bloody Awful Club World. It's truly horrible, and if you actually paid rack rate for the seat you'd consider yourself truly short-changed. BA personnel generally have an (unwarranted) high opinion of themselves, and regard their paying customers as an inconvenience. It has been like this for decades. I would have thought that Ford might have been singled out for favorable attention by the older gay FAs though!
Having flown BA F and J on several occasions and AA J there is no question that AA J is better by a mile than BA J, however, the service is marginal with many AA staff being equally clueless or unfriendly. I like the BA F product and then the AA J offering, followed by BA J. However, there is no way that anyone can compare BA J to BA economy and it only being...
Having flown BA F and J on several occasions and AA J there is no question that AA J is better by a mile than BA J, however, the service is marginal with many AA staff being equally clueless or unfriendly. I like the BA F product and then the AA J offering, followed by BA J. However, there is no way that anyone can compare BA J to BA economy and it only being a step up. Seriously, someone needs to get a reality check. I suspect that someone needs to write some column inches to make a story that has some impact but in this case, it is not a positive one. Suggest that rather than writing such a lame piece the OP doesn't bother writing at all since it ultimately adds nothing - other than to create another useless piece here.
@elijah, a lack of sleep from getting food poisoning last night may certainly have given me more time than normal, and left me a bit more irritable than normal, pun intended. :) Still, it amazes me when people cannot do basic math and repeat the same misinformation repeatedly. Guess it's time to start my own "mathematically correct" travel blog, though I doubt anyone would read about my adventures in paid J and F where things go smoothly 98% of the time. :)
Another long term reader here who won't be coming back. The BA reviews are tedious. First is 'The Best Business Class out there' so it's little surprise to hear Club World reduced in the same terms.
Let's be clear, BA's two products aren't perfect and everyone is entitled to their opinion, but Ben's view has always been selective.
In Ben's review, CW's perceived lack of privacy is repeatedly mentioned but oddly that didn't get...
Another long term reader here who won't be coming back. The BA reviews are tedious. First is 'The Best Business Class out there' so it's little surprise to hear Club World reduced in the same terms.
Let's be clear, BA's two products aren't perfect and everyone is entitled to their opinion, but Ben's view has always been selective.
In Ben's review, CW's perceived lack of privacy is repeatedly mentioned but oddly that didn't get the same level of prominence when he reviewed Lufthansa's current First or Business products. Likewise seating density and hoping over your neighbour, or indeed having a neighbour. BA have had individual flat beds in First since 1995. Lufthansa binned their double seats in First relatively recently.
Sure, Lufthansa knocks BA out of the park when it comes to ground service. It always has, but it's the selective nature of the reviews in what is mentioned and what gets ignored that makes them the bit I have increasingly ignored.
Ford's view is clearly heavily tainted by yours. Now that's not unexpected, but it perhaps puts some perspective on this post.
Ben, this blog was better (for me) before you had been there and done that. It's charm for (again, for me) was when you had some wide eyed innocence and tried products for the first time. I'm sure it's still useful, informative and entertaining for many and good for both you and them. Good luck.
"Homophobia!"; "You are haters!"
Let's be real. Neither homophobia nor hate has anything to with it.
This way-over-the-top "opinion" practically invited the visceral response that it got because it reads like a clueless and sophomoric essay by a 'rags to riches' guy, who suddenly feels entitled, even though he'd only had just two prior “true” premium cabin experiences...
I second the view that OMAAT has of late taken a "southern" detour from its intelligent bread...
"Homophobia!"; "You are haters!"
Let's be real. Neither homophobia nor hate has anything to with it.
This way-over-the-top "opinion" practically invited the visceral response that it got because it reads like a clueless and sophomoric essay by a 'rags to riches' guy, who suddenly feels entitled, even though he'd only had just two prior “true” premium cabin experiences...
I second the view that OMAAT has of late taken a "southern" detour from its intelligent bread 'n butter travel blogging that drew so many to it, including this detractor...
Seems like this article is getting an inordinate (and undeserved) amount of abuse. I suspect there are BA-trolls a-lurking.
C'mon people - lighten up. The perspective he has shared gives us a fresh look at how BA stands (or not) with the bona-fide premier cabin providers, regardless of the number of times he has flown.... one need not be scalded 10 times to know that fire is hot.
Was on BA First Class some...
Seems like this article is getting an inordinate (and undeserved) amount of abuse. I suspect there are BA-trolls a-lurking.
C'mon people - lighten up. The perspective he has shared gives us a fresh look at how BA stands (or not) with the bona-fide premier cabin providers, regardless of the number of times he has flown.... one need not be scalded 10 times to know that fire is hot.
Was on BA First Class some years ago when there were ongoing industrial relations issues. The plane halted midway through taxiing, following which they disembarked everyone (luggage too) there and then on the tarmac. Add salt to wound - we had to haul ourselves, lock-stock-and-barrel, back to the terminal. Explanations were terse.
Useless airline, through and through.
I'm not sure why people feel the need to jump to the rescue of Ben/Ford. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, this is a blog after all and not an impartial review that is obligated to be objective but it is possible to convey an opinion in such a manor as not to come across as entitled and/or pretentious. This post manages to come across as both.
I don't think that anyone would argue...
I'm not sure why people feel the need to jump to the rescue of Ben/Ford. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, this is a blog after all and not an impartial review that is obligated to be objective but it is possible to convey an opinion in such a manor as not to come across as entitled and/or pretentious. This post manages to come across as both.
I don't think that anyone would argue that BA J isn't one of the best business class products on the market but on the LHR-LAX route the market is far more limited. It would seem that most agree the new AA business class is the most preferable but it's also the most limited when it comes to reward availability. BA's J availability, along with the companion voucher make it a pretty attainable way for a couple of people to cross the Atlantic on a flat bed rather than crammed in cattle class. Ultimately, isn't that the point of 'the hobby'?
Come on Blog Police. It's just a posting, not a Supreme Court decision. Geez.
Buggery is the Cardinal Sin
Oh no i didnt
1) Been reading the blog since 2009 (?)
2) Love Ben, the writing, travel tips, credit card tips and opinion's.
3) Guest writers get trashed on this blog ( some, for VERY good reasons)
4) I'm taking a break from OMAAT and going to the dark side ( the tall guy;)
RR
Etihad's 777-300ER two class has eight across business class. If you don't believe me look it up on Seatguru.
"What Did Ford Think Of British Airways Club World?" asked no one, according to these comments. But, let's try to stay constructive.
Ben appears to be falling in love with Ford, which is wonderful and we should all be so lucky. However there is a difference between personal life and professional life. OMAAT has historically been a professional blog. Readers seemingly don't know what to expect going forward. Perhaps Ben needs to make a decision...
"What Did Ford Think Of British Airways Club World?" asked no one, according to these comments. But, let's try to stay constructive.
Ben appears to be falling in love with Ford, which is wonderful and we should all be so lucky. However there is a difference between personal life and professional life. OMAAT has historically been a professional blog. Readers seemingly don't know what to expect going forward. Perhaps Ben needs to make a decision one way or another and communicate that to readers.
Since the bloggers on this site are all obviously a tad jaded when it comes to reviewing any airline's front-of-plane offerings, maybe they should take a break from downing their endless flutes of Krug and try discovering "best economy class" options. That information would most likely be far more useful to the majority of readers than more fawning reviews of first class aboard Emirates, Cathay, et al.
I wouldn't have a clue Mark. I'm from Oz stray aaaaaa.....
Dylan you need to get out more mate. Seriously
@Elijah - thanks for the laugh. Your last sentence is hysterical (although you probably don't understand why).
I have also flown J and F on the airline I worked for and the service has been hit and miss. I had to report one FA as her attitude to me was totally disgusting because I was staff. BA and other airlines read this blog and if it helps to improve service for the better I'm all for it. Keep doing what you love Ford and I appreciate your honesty. It's nothing to do with you being a bitchy queen.
Some of the comments have expressed surprised at the negative tone of many of the responses. What do you expect?
The post is poorly written, hyperbolic, and repetitive of what was already posted by Lucky. It adds nothing new to the previous review of the same flight and seems to be an opportunity for his boyfriend to display his self-absorbed, whiny personality.
Ben,
I hope that Ford has as thick a skin as you say you do when it comes to comments. Otherwise, why in the world would you put this on the blog? Why let him walk right into this buzzsaw? And BTW, sorry but I fail to see any homophobia in the comments. I'm sure Ford is a great BF, but this was not OMAAT's best moment.
Mark you are one positive guy lol. "Not" you probably just take the greyhound bus. Ford is only writing about his experience in J class. He paid for it and whether is was $50 or $50k one would espect good if not excellent service. I've been traveling for over 20 years and have travelled on a hell of a lot of airlines. Since I was on non rev most was in Y but I was also very fortunate to be UPG to J. I have
Thanks Ford for your interesting post, I am embarrassed that this is British Airways, the flag carrier of the United Kingdom. If I had paid over a £1000 for this flight I would be very annoyed, if I had swapped miles for this flight I would be just as annoyed. As I said in Ben's post the other day so many people are desperate to be cabin crew, if you don't love your job give...
Thanks Ford for your interesting post, I am embarrassed that this is British Airways, the flag carrier of the United Kingdom. If I had paid over a £1000 for this flight I would be very annoyed, if I had swapped miles for this flight I would be just as annoyed. As I said in Ben's post the other day so many people are desperate to be cabin crew, if you don't love your job give it to someone else. I wouldn't hesitate to complain if I received bad/rude service for the money that the flight costs, even in economy I would complain. A crew member that cannot reach an overhead bin is a danger, how can she swing a plane door open in an emergency if she cannot simply reach up and close a bin. Keep the blogs coming Ford, good to hear your comments.
I don't understand how this post generated has generated so many negative comments this quickly. Ben & Ford are entitled to their opinions regarding the products that they review. I don't think they were attempted to do a "hit job" on BA rather just they shared their individual prospective on BA's business product.
I flew the new club world right when it was first introduced and I thought it was great. Fast forward to...
I don't understand how this post generated has generated so many negative comments this quickly. Ben & Ford are entitled to their opinions regarding the products that they review. I don't think they were attempted to do a "hit job" on BA rather just they shared their individual prospective on BA's business product.
I flew the new club world right when it was first introduced and I thought it was great. Fast forward to 2015, and it is simply not that great, in fact it's probably one of the worst ways to get across the Atlantic in business.
One more thought - does BA get points for consistency? If you fly BA J international, you ALWAYS get the same lie-flat product. That is worth something to me.
Even as a slight airplane nerd, I find it extremely annoying and slightly confusing to figure out which business seat I will get on American. And then what if there's an equipment swap or I looked it up incorrectly?
I guess my point is,...
One more thought - does BA get points for consistency? If you fly BA J international, you ALWAYS get the same lie-flat product. That is worth something to me.
Even as a slight airplane nerd, I find it extremely annoying and slightly confusing to figure out which business seat I will get on American. And then what if there's an equipment swap or I looked it up incorrectly?
I guess my point is, how does the average BA J seat compare to the average AA J seat? Not just the best AA seat that anyone can find on one particular model of aircraft. Most people don't want to figure out if their plane is the 777-200 vs. 300 to figure out what product they are paying for.
At least I commend BA for a consistent, flat seat. No-brainier for most.
It's not wrong to point out that this is Ben's blog, and therefore he's entitled to post whatever he wants. However, I remember, like many of the commenters here seem to, the days where this blog was more technical, more finessed. This was several years ago, and I was relatively new to the miles and points game, so OMAAT felt like raw, unadulterated information; it was helpful advice and strategy in its purest form.
...It's not wrong to point out that this is Ben's blog, and therefore he's entitled to post whatever he wants. However, I remember, like many of the commenters here seem to, the days where this blog was more technical, more finessed. This was several years ago, and I was relatively new to the miles and points game, so OMAAT felt like raw, unadulterated information; it was helpful advice and strategy in its purest form.
The trend of late in many forms of media has to increase the use of hyperbole, and this blog has been no exception (many of the 'better' BoardingArea blogs have done the same). I personally hate that, but I can tolerate it. But what's so unfortunate about this type of post is that here hyperbole and shock value have devolved into pure rubbish thinking, thinking that -- whether intentional or accidental -- seriously detracts from the overall experience.
I think there's very few commenters on here who would herald BA's business class product as a sight to behold; certainly I've found it more average than most, perhaps even lackluster. But keeping all things in perspective, it's certainly, even if only by definition, more comfortable than a flight in economy.
This isn't meant to be an attack on Ford, so hopefully it doesn't come off that way. But I think this post is the culmination of a change in attitude on this blog. It's not even that you weren't fond of BA that bothers me, but it's the lack of finesse in explaining that opinion; the decreasing number of 'helpful' posts overall and the increase in meaningless hyperbole. For me, OMAAT has always been a key part of my strategy to get more value for the same spend (or even less in some cases), it's been about maximizing the experience through smarter, not necessarily harder work. Now, it feels more like a tabloid.
I feel like I've rambled on enough; of course, this is simply my opinion, and Ben and Ford and every other commenter here is entitled to their own.
Too much hyperbole for me I'm afraid, which makes the whole review less believable.
Clearly there were some service failings on this flight, thankfully not something I've experienced in CW before but inexcusable. However the hard product is also clearly much better than Y and also than angle-flat biz or most US domestic F. I don't find the seats particularly narrow and more importantly have found them very comfortable to sleep or relax in...
Too much hyperbole for me I'm afraid, which makes the whole review less believable.
Clearly there were some service failings on this flight, thankfully not something I've experienced in CW before but inexcusable. However the hard product is also clearly much better than Y and also than angle-flat biz or most US domestic F. I don't find the seats particularly narrow and more importantly have found them very comfortable to sleep or relax in (an upside compared to those that need to be flipped over). The adjustable footrest is particularly good. Clearly direct aisle access is preferable, but I've never found it that difficult to hop out from my window seat. I've been in SQ biz and Suites and they're much better products for sure, but it doesn't mean CW is premium economy!
BA also are clearly doing something right given IAG recurrently turns in decent profit figures, as opposed to the state-subsidised ME and US airlines (Chap 11 bankruptcy etc).
Thank you YYZgayguy, this is one of those times I am disturbed by the comments as well. Its almost embarrassing to read.
As for the actual review, I love reading the opinions and take them for what they are, opinions. Pictures help, and now I fully understand what will be available if I choose to fly BA. Take the possibility of getting a dreaded center seat, and the outrageous charges for choosing a seat...
Thank you YYZgayguy, this is one of those times I am disturbed by the comments as well. Its almost embarrassing to read.
As for the actual review, I love reading the opinions and take them for what they are, opinions. Pictures help, and now I fully understand what will be available if I choose to fly BA. Take the possibility of getting a dreaded center seat, and the outrageous charges for choosing a seat in CW, and I will avoid BA unless I have to. I still pay for my trips as I don't have enough miles yet, so these reviews really help me in deciding where to spend my hard earned money. Delta One and BA at the same price? The answer is even more obvious.
"I literally couldn’t help but write a post". Or Ben forced/suggested you do so he could write off the trip as a business expense. Congratulations, you found a tax exemption on your lifestyle. Ever wonder why there's constant posting of the same content and reviews of the same product, not only on this blog, but others as well? Here's your answer.
SingLah says: .... "I’m just curious who is the top/bottom in your relationship?"
Wow, no matter what you think of the review or this site, this is totally uncalled for. This review should be deleted and the author banned from future comments.
This is yawn, yawn, yawn. Comparing BA Club World/Biz to a glorified premium economy or economy is ridiculous. If you stopped eating cashew nuts or whatever you preoccupied yourself with on that trip, you would notice that while BA is not the most modern flatbed biz class, you can lie down, fully flat and fully horizontal to the floor and get a good nights sleep. If you actually have any accurate info about which economy...
This is yawn, yawn, yawn. Comparing BA Club World/Biz to a glorified premium economy or economy is ridiculous. If you stopped eating cashew nuts or whatever you preoccupied yourself with on that trip, you would notice that while BA is not the most modern flatbed biz class, you can lie down, fully flat and fully horizontal to the floor and get a good nights sleep. If you actually have any accurate info about which economy class you can do that on, then that would be really useful info and I'd love to have it, so I could reduce my air-travel bill by about two-thrids.
Also you don't seem to understand square feet per seat and number of seats across the cabin. Haven't you notice that Cathay's seats are diagonal? What does that tell you about how many seats they can fit across the cabin if they are diagonal instead of lengthways?
Thank you Ford for your inputs. I have flown BA Y many times long haul especially LAX-LHR, and as a BA Gold (OWE) I have always been greeted with proper champagne glass for pre-departure drink, multiple checkups throughout the flight and even order meal option before anyone else. BA offers great service in Y.
I enjoyed reading Ford's blog post. I did not enjoy reading the comments.
I can't remember a time I enjoyed the comments so little.
I sincerely prefer that any post containing a personal slur (princess, top/bottom, etc) be deleted without delay. I think that's a good place to draw the line. Lucky, if you're too busy to do this promptly, I think it's a responsibility that should be covered by others when you're unavailable. Your...
I enjoyed reading Ford's blog post. I did not enjoy reading the comments.
I can't remember a time I enjoyed the comments so little.
I sincerely prefer that any post containing a personal slur (princess, top/bottom, etc) be deleted without delay. I think that's a good place to draw the line. Lucky, if you're too busy to do this promptly, I think it's a responsibility that should be covered by others when you're unavailable. Your blog is bigtime and the tone of the comments should meet your standard. The trashtalk herein should not sit there for many hours, waiting for a grownup.
Thank you Ford's dad.
If you don't like what you read then stop reading but attacking Ford or Ben is childish. Grow up. There are things that are written by both of them that I do not agree with however I don't have an urge to tell everyone how screwed up they are ad nauseum.
"A fair few of your readers, I know, ended up in a lot of debt because of those credit cards you sold them on."
Ooh, juicy. Do tell.
Back to the views on BA CW ... When the current seats were introduced about 10 years ago ("New Club World"), they were amongst the first flat bed products in business class. Their design (one facing forwards/one backwards) allowed to optimize the width, which is bigger at shoulder level and smaller at leg/feet level. Even today, the only downside I can see is the lack of direct aisle access for the window and middle seats....
Back to the views on BA CW ... When the current seats were introduced about 10 years ago ("New Club World"), they were amongst the first flat bed products in business class. Their design (one facing forwards/one backwards) allowed to optimize the width, which is bigger at shoulder level and smaller at leg/feet level. Even today, the only downside I can see is the lack of direct aisle access for the window and middle seats. But on the other hand side, it is much wider around the feet than most of the more recent products. So: Yes, I prefer BA CW over many (not all) products.
I'd like to give you guys a math lesson. Seat density is area per seat, which is two dimensional. To compare like for like, compare the 4 class 773 on CX vs. BA.
Between doors 2 and 3, CX has 45 business class seats (11 rows of 4 and an extra seat) whereas BA has 56 seats (7 rows of 8).
I don't hear any complaints about how CX has so many rows of seats...
I'd like to give you guys a math lesson. Seat density is area per seat, which is two dimensional. To compare like for like, compare the 4 class 773 on CX vs. BA.
Between doors 2 and 3, CX has 45 business class seats (11 rows of 4 and an extra seat) whereas BA has 56 seats (7 rows of 8).
I don't hear any complaints about how CX has so many rows of seats in such a small space. ;)
BA is 22% more dense with this configuration (not 100% more dense as the 1-2-1 vs. 2-4-2 argument implies), but I find the BA seat better for sleeping and a lot less hard than the Cirrus seat. I find the shoulder width to be fine though I usually get a nice upper deck window seat on the 747. I also find the slanted upright position during taxi takeoff and landing in CW to be the most comfortable of any J seat ( and far better than the airbag seatbelt on the cirrus seat).
CW is far from perfect, but maybe sticking to facts based on math would be more credible?
I've been reading - and benefiting - from this blog, pretty much since the beginning. (I remember when you used to get excited about staying at a Holiday Inn, Ben...) I'm seriously grateful for all the advice. But I think, alas, this blog and I, we've grown apart...
Thankfulness has to mean something. Not just a cut and paste paragraph, before the complaints. Something that changes you and your life. My partner spent most of...
I've been reading - and benefiting - from this blog, pretty much since the beginning. (I remember when you used to get excited about staying at a Holiday Inn, Ben...) I'm seriously grateful for all the advice. But I think, alas, this blog and I, we've grown apart...
Thankfulness has to mean something. Not just a cut and paste paragraph, before the complaints. Something that changes you and your life. My partner spent most of this year working in a slum in Africa. She almost died a few times. She got back safe. I'm thankful for that. Not that my ******* mimosa's served with a smile.
Ben, you're incredibly successful, and you've earned every bit of it. If you're not a millionaire, you will be soon. But many of us readers haven't had that journey. I used to fly up front - now my money goes to taking care of my parents. I'll take coach any day, and roll my eyes only a little, at such complaints as yours. I'm still one of the lucky ones. A fair few of your readers, I know, ended up in a lot of debt because of those credit cards you sold them on.
Paying a thousand bucks for a hotel room? Calling a $1500 flight 'cheap'? That's your life, but not mine. I think you've forgotten that most of us can't live like that. Yep, BA J is pretty bad. But the poor little rich boy pose - well, if's played out.
Thanks for everything, and best of luck with the world.
To get back to the topic...the "2-4-2"-config is not really all that bad? If, say, Etihad were to use the same numbering plan, their A380 config would be 2-4-2 as well. It may be a bad product, but it is more like a 1-2-1 config (an idiotic one, given the fact that not everybody has direct aisle access - i agree on that)
Having said that, I can remember when BA was praised for...
To get back to the topic...the "2-4-2"-config is not really all that bad? If, say, Etihad were to use the same numbering plan, their A380 config would be 2-4-2 as well. It may be a bad product, but it is more like a 1-2-1 config (an idiotic one, given the fact that not everybody has direct aisle access - i agree on that)
Having said that, I can remember when BA was praised for having innovative flat bed products, which I believe were the same seats we now all moan about. 15 years ago, business class in many cases meant "recliner seat" and "mini TV screen pops out of armrest" :)
Great review. On occasion, I like hearing different perspectives other than those of Lucky. I'm just curious who is the top/bottom in your relationship?
Please, enough with the "you're haters!" or "you're homophobic!" counter-arguments.
Its one thing for Lucky to give an assessment of BA, since he's actually flown on various airlines and did the actual work (whatever you think of his methods) to get the points/money/whatever to fly premium. But, when its your third trip, on someone else's dime, as others have pointed out...a little humble pie isn't a bad thing. There is a way to criticize BA's...
Please, enough with the "you're haters!" or "you're homophobic!" counter-arguments.
Its one thing for Lucky to give an assessment of BA, since he's actually flown on various airlines and did the actual work (whatever you think of his methods) to get the points/money/whatever to fly premium. But, when its your third trip, on someone else's dime, as others have pointed out...a little humble pie isn't a bad thing. There is a way to criticize BA's J class product with coming off like an entitled elitist, and comparing it to economy isn't the way to go about it.
Maybe Lucky needs to arrange for a roundtrip LAX-LHR trip for Ford in economy on BA to see how it really is.
For someone who has only flown two other premium first class products, you certainly are very opinionated.
You ask 'if this is business, what is economy?' Well economy is what you've been flying all your life - don't tell me you've forgotten after 3 flights?
And it's rich you calling your friend a 'princess' when you sound like a spoilt brat yourself
I love how people think a blog is somehow not the opinion of the author. Let's all attack Ford for giving his opinion. Obviously he's a spoiled princess, whilst those who fly C or F 30~50 times across the pond aren't.
The haters need to calm down. I took my boyfriend on a few quality business class flights from Asia to Europe for the first time earlier this year; Qatar, Cathay. Now he is criticises everything on every flight. "That steak wasn't as juicy as Qatar"... "These seats aren't as comfortable as Cathay". It happens. Expectations rise very quickly and suddenly everyone's a critic. Very soon club world really *does* feel like economy class. And common,...
The haters need to calm down. I took my boyfriend on a few quality business class flights from Asia to Europe for the first time earlier this year; Qatar, Cathay. Now he is criticises everything on every flight. "That steak wasn't as juicy as Qatar"... "These seats aren't as comfortable as Cathay". It happens. Expectations rise very quickly and suddenly everyone's a critic. Very soon club world really *does* feel like economy class. And common, we all know that BA flight attendants don't care to provide any quality service. Big surprise!
Wow....just take these reviews as what they are folks - opinion. I do concur - having flown all possible products trans-atlantic into London multiple time (sans Kuwait and La Compagnie) - BA is the worst in terms of Hard Product (assuming we say AA has no more Barcaloungers on the London flights). 2-3-2 on the 787; 2-4-2 on the 777; 2-4-2 on the 747...it's crazy tight in terms of seat width, privacy and aisle access....
Wow....just take these reviews as what they are folks - opinion. I do concur - having flown all possible products trans-atlantic into London multiple time (sans Kuwait and La Compagnie) - BA is the worst in terms of Hard Product (assuming we say AA has no more Barcaloungers on the London flights). 2-3-2 on the 787; 2-4-2 on the 777; 2-4-2 on the 747...it's crazy tight in terms of seat width, privacy and aisle access.
BA gets away with it because they control so many slots into LHR. If there was opportunity for greater competition - you would see better products out of BA. In the meantime - enjoy the AA 777-300 while they are still on the LHR routes (not sure yet about the AA reconfigured 777-200...avoiding it while I can).
It's an opinion, an independent review, you don't have to like it or read it - to be fair, if Ford is new to the review scene or premium travel , congrats and spot on!! BA are atrocious in all classes, are the nasty comments that border on bullying and homophobia thst attempt to to descridit your honest experience whether it was the first or last "premium" experience are typical of what we see when...
It's an opinion, an independent review, you don't have to like it or read it - to be fair, if Ford is new to the review scene or premium travel , congrats and spot on!! BA are atrocious in all classes, are the nasty comments that border on bullying and homophobia thst attempt to to descridit your honest experience whether it was the first or last "premium" experience are typical of what we see when BA are in the firing line??? A smile, common courtesy and decency can go a long way to make up for service shortcomings - bad attitudes, negative vibes and clear disinterest will never make up for Kruger, caviar, or the like.... Its cultural, it comes from the top and translates to poor management and training - squeeze high fare paying passengers into impossibly tight and ergonomically ludicrous quarters and its frankly shocking air rage isn't at pandemic proportions! For those quoting coach as a point of reference - lets me honest, with bucket shop prices and a low benchmark once expectIons tend to be at rock bottom and not aspirational. Keep the reviews coming Ford!! Well done!!!!
Have to agree with the majority.
My experiences with Club World have ranged from 'meh' to good. It's certainly not my favorite business class but it will always beat the hell out of anyone's economy product.
Reading about the comically atrocious service Ben & Ford received on the outbound flight made me think of a parody I once saw of a BA TV commercial. This was way back before BA's privatization. I can only remember...
Have to agree with the majority.
My experiences with Club World have ranged from 'meh' to good. It's certainly not my favorite business class but it will always beat the hell out of anyone's economy product.
Reading about the comically atrocious service Ben & Ford received on the outbound flight made me think of a parody I once saw of a BA TV commercial. This was way back before BA's privatization. I can only remember the parody's ending: a stereotypical English gentleman pompously proclaiming...
"We're British Airways. We don't care. We don't have to."
Agree with most of the others. Get a grip!!
This is an airline that actually flies business seats to make a profit (probably unlike some of those you compare it too)!!
Come on, if you don't like what Ben writes or are just homophobic, please don't read the blog. Comments which are along those lines are tiresome.
Ford - you seem a tad pompous and arrogant, and whether Ben is rubbing off on you, or you're rubbing off on him, I'm not enjoying this blog as much anymore.
Ben - where's the humility?
Way to go Ford. Way to go Ben. Many thanks for the review! These are opinion pieces, naturally!
If the alternative for a non stop London flight is limited to US Air now AA, BA is a clearly preferred alternative. On the 777 configuration from PHL, I find the Club seats very low to the floor requiring a major pull up to stand.
Cabin staff are always professional and responsive.
Does BA's business class product suck? You bet. Eight across is just nuts. That said, it still beats the hell out of coach. Interestingly, your responses remind me of my wife in that she also has limited experience with premium cabins, but now feels comfortable criticizing them, despite that lack of experience. My own fault, I suppose, for not sticking with coach. In your defense, the purpose of this blog entry is to provide your...
Does BA's business class product suck? You bet. Eight across is just nuts. That said, it still beats the hell out of coach. Interestingly, your responses remind me of my wife in that she also has limited experience with premium cabins, but now feels comfortable criticizing them, despite that lack of experience. My own fault, I suppose, for not sticking with coach. In your defense, the purpose of this blog entry is to provide your perspective. In fact, providing a personal perspective is pretty much what this blog is about. If some people, myself included, think that maybe you took things a touch far, we should either shut up and deal, or at least try to offer some constructive form of direct criticism.
Wow, that is a weak argument, Chris. If you think thats the only reason people are complaining...
Just came here for the comments.. *grabs popcorn* ;')
Appears to be a lot of BA Fanboys on today!
Wow...lots of hate for ford....but he deserves it for acting like an entitled princess so add me to the list of haters
By the way, he "literally couldn't help but write a post".
Ford - if you want to write, learn a bit about language. The over- and misuse of the word "literally" is a big liability and demonstrates your serious lack of command of the English language.
I'm getting a little bit sick of this. It's bad enough that these reviews seem to focus on bashing BA and their crew, but now you're posting the views of someone who has flown in 1% of other premium products and portraying it as an "expert review", and then if that wasn't bad enough, your little clique of sycophants post baiting comments like "oh cue the endless 'post something useful'/be greatful'..."
Ben you're just devaluing...
I'm getting a little bit sick of this. It's bad enough that these reviews seem to focus on bashing BA and their crew, but now you're posting the views of someone who has flown in 1% of other premium products and portraying it as an "expert review", and then if that wasn't bad enough, your little clique of sycophants post baiting comments like "oh cue the endless 'post something useful'/be greatful'..."
Ben you're just devaluing your own reputation. Sure, Ford is entitled to his option as much as anyone else, but it's just that - an opinion.
For the record, I've flown BA C/W about 30 times in my life. I've had 1 less than perfect experience in it. Also BA 1st is a wonderful product and just because AA have a similar seat in their BRAND NEW J cabin does not make BA F "the best business class product" - as much as you love to dine out on that strapline.
Of course Emirates & Etihad A380 suites, apartments and The Residence are better but you are in a very privileged position to judge these. Those airlines and aircraft don't fly to every destination in the world.
Anyway, we get it.. You're not a fan of BA. Just don't fly them any more!
I wish I could express just how little I care for this dude's opinion.
@Dennis - You might want to do that?
I have to agree with the others, that BA is still fine for J if you compare it to angle lie flat (try flying MU in J sometime!), and certainly should never be compared to the back of the bus! C'mon! You and Ben have no idea what that is about anymore;-)
However, in terms of what is available by the competition that yin-yang J is an...
@Dennis - You might want to do that?
I have to agree with the others, that BA is still fine for J if you compare it to angle lie flat (try flying MU in J sometime!), and certainly should never be compared to the back of the bus! C'mon! You and Ben have no idea what that is about anymore;-)
However, in terms of what is available by the competition that yin-yang J is an embarrassment and so out of date in 2015. The fact that they put it in their new B788/9s and A388s tells you all you need to know about where BA is going. Heck, even LH has changed out their old pathetic angle flat J that was initially installed in their A388s.
That said, when I fly on a reward or a discounted fare, my standards are adjusted accordingly. I'm just happy to get some sleep and some free chow, while thanking the stars that I'm not in 3-4-3 Y!
I think most here commiserate (especially about the sad service), but unless you fly full-fare paid J, one shouldn't really complain too much IMO.
There seems to be an increase in hyperbole recently.
I just can't honestly believe it's as "egregious" as the picture you paint.
First, BA J is still a huge upgrade over any Y seats. U lose credibility if u are going to insist anything but.
Whether BA J is competitive priced vs say CX J or SQ J is another story.
But to say BA J is one of the worst J ever is also not fair. I know for one, i will take BA J's flat bed over any angled flats, despite the tight 2-4-2...
First, BA J is still a huge upgrade over any Y seats. U lose credibility if u are going to insist anything but.
Whether BA J is competitive priced vs say CX J or SQ J is another story.
But to say BA J is one of the worst J ever is also not fair. I know for one, i will take BA J's flat bed over any angled flats, despite the tight 2-4-2 seating.
Of cos, sq j's 1-2-1 wins hands down but give me ba j over angled flats of 2-3-2 or 2-2-2s j fr other airlines. Really.
Fly more biz class before u comment in such a manner. Its not fair comparing F w J (given ur other premium exp r in Fs), and u need to appreciate BA J vs angled flats or even premium econ to know how impt it is to hv a flat bed.
You have lost a lot of Credit with this post , Ford! Every Business-Class on this world is better than Economy!! Ben just flies for the sake of flying, is a Krug addict etc, but real Business men value the extra space and the flat bed.
Thank you Ford. You have demonstrated why I would love the see the demise of frequent flyer-related upgrades. I'm tired of people who don't pay for J or F sitting in those seats and who become instant critics and whiners.
Seriously, J and F would be a better experience for those of us who can afford it if the wanna-be types would stay behind the curtain. I get that money doesn't buy class, but apparently these programs breed trash.
I really hope you flew premium before you hooked up with Lucky. Otherwise, if this is only your third time...damn, you can give your friend some lessons in being a princess.
And yes, @Dennis, when you're flying premium on your boyfriend's dime, you should be at least a bit humble and grateful.
Lucky = Gretchen and Ford = fetch.
@Amtexfly: Word :)
Although I havent had the opportunity to sample BA's J product myself (and now, thanks to this blog, I know its not a thing worth trying) I am still sure that it is infinitely better than any economy seat.
If I wanted to read a story about how much BA Business sucks I would have just read Ben's review earlier. This post is just a complete regurgitation and offer nothing new. Also.....try sitting on that same flight in economy and I doubt you will whine again about BA Club World.
Before you started dating Ford how much had he traveled in Business and First? I think that would be useful to know.
I understand this is his opinion but my experiences on BA are the complete opposite. I just flew LHR-DFW yesterday on the UD. Fantastic and friendly crew, a steak cooked rare as requested and wonderful afternoon tea service. The service is hands down above AA. At least on every BA aircraft you...
Before you started dating Ford how much had he traveled in Business and First? I think that would be useful to know.
I understand this is his opinion but my experiences on BA are the complete opposite. I just flew LHR-DFW yesterday on the UD. Fantastic and friendly crew, a steak cooked rare as requested and wonderful afternoon tea service. The service is hands down above AA. At least on every BA aircraft you know you are getting a lie flat seat. Until AA has lie flat across the board in business I won't be changing any of my travel patterns. I could have chosen the 77W with AA but I prefer UD on 747.
Were you a bitchy queen before or after you met Ben?
To compare this with premium economy is laughable. While I certainly agree it's a terrible product and one to avoid, you need a reality check. Here's hoping you're stuck in long haul economy sometime soon. Would love to hear you bitch about that!
C'mon, after Emirates anything seems bad :P
Just what I was waiting for!
Thanks, Ford.
No offense, but as this is only your third time in a premium cabin, how can you say BA business class was awful? You don't have enough experience to know what worse business classes are out there. Strictly speaking only on hard product, any normal person that have limited premium cabin experience would say it's amazing. I have friends who would say angled lieflat is amazing because they don't have any other experience to compare...
No offense, but as this is only your third time in a premium cabin, how can you say BA business class was awful? You don't have enough experience to know what worse business classes are out there. Strictly speaking only on hard product, any normal person that have limited premium cabin experience would say it's amazing. I have friends who would say angled lieflat is amazing because they don't have any other experience to compare to except economy. Put it another way, had you flown this first instead of emirates or cathay, you would say it's amazing because all you have is compare it to economy class. No one with limited premium cabin experience would even think to say that climbing over another person in business is unacceptable. Makes me wonder how you are providing negative critiques already. Is it truly your own thoughts or heavily influenced from Lucky.
Cue the endless "post something useful" and "be thankful blah blah" comments. Ha.
Clearly this is a bit of hyperbole.
As bad as it may be (and I've flown on BA J several times), it deserves no comparison to economy class. The whole issue with economy class is the lack of space with your knees jammed against the seat in front of you and your neighbors legs and arms touching you.
I just flew a longhaul redeye on AA in economy, and if someone came to...
Clearly this is a bit of hyperbole.
As bad as it may be (and I've flown on BA J several times), it deserves no comparison to economy class. The whole issue with economy class is the lack of space with your knees jammed against the seat in front of you and your neighbors legs and arms touching you.
I just flew a longhaul redeye on AA in economy, and if someone came to me 6 hours in during my uneasy sleep with my tail bone aching and my ass falling asleep asking what I would pay for a flat bed BA business class seat, I would have parted with a large sum of money.
No doubt, BA CW is bad for business class, but when you drink free booze, eat a little food, and lie down for a night's sleep on a flat padded surface, it is NOTHING like economy class. If you two flew Y over and J back, I think the reviews would be tempered a bit.
"You get what you pay for"?;)
C'mon..until some months ago you very used to fly cattle-class and now you already write in Ben-BA-bashing-style! Ofc BA C is surely far from perfect and there are many better C-products, but I still would have expected a little more humility from your side,
If you think BA club world is glorified economy class than you clearly haven't flown long haul in the back.
You might find club world lacking compared to other J class products but try sitting in the middle isle of economy and I assure you that you would love to be in BA J.