Former United Employee Sues Marriott For Getting Him Fired

Former United Employee Sues Marriott For Getting Him Fired

140

A former United Airlines flight attendant is suing Marriott for snitching on him to his employer, leading to him being fired. I can’t decide whether he has a good case or not, though there are some important details that are unknown.

A United flight attendant’s problematic quarantine

Jonathan Ray was a United Airlines flight attendant for 20+ years. He’s also a Marriott Bonvoy Titanium Elite lifetime member, apparently from all of his travel for United (which I’m confused by, because I was under the impression that airline crews generally don’t earn elite nights for hotel stays, but I could be wrong, and that’s besides the point anyway).

In April 2020, Ray tested positive for coronavirus after working several international trips. After landing at Newark Airport from an international trip, he was informed by the airline that he had tested positive.

At that point Ray checked into the Marriott Courtyard Wilmington Downtown to quarantine. According to the lawsuit (you can read the whole thing here), which was filed on Monday:

Even though there was no business reason or other justification for doing so, Marriott repeatedly reached out and communicated with United, by way of email and otherwise, to inform United about Mr. Ray and to interfere with Mr. Ray’s employment and continued employment with United.

According to the lawsuit, hotel employees contacted United in writing and:

  • Claimed that Ray “did not take quarantining instructions seriously,” that he had been “sitting in the lobby without even a mask,” that he had “thrown” items, and that he created safety issues for other guests by blocking emergency exits near his room
  • Claimed that Ray had been “sitting in the lobby without even a mask,” and that he and the gentleman staying with him hadn’t been adhering to Marriott’s policies, even though there were none formally in place at the time
  • Claimed that Ray and the other gentleman weren’t taking the hotel’s policies and procedures seriously, and that he was putting “the safety and security of all guests and associates” at risk
  • Claimed that Ray had told the hotel he wasn’t sick with coronavirus
  • Claimed that Marriott told Ray and the other gentleman not to leave their hotel, even though staff had never told them such a thing

Because of these allegations, United suspended Ray without pay, and then sent him a termination letter shortly thereafter.

Wow, what a case…

Obviously I’m no lawyer, so I’m just sharing my general (non-legal) take. It’s hard to know what exactly to make of this:

  • It’s not entirely clear to me if Ray booked his own hotel and just informed the staff that he worked for United, or if United booked the hotel for him to quarantine in; if the latter is the case, I suppose United would have more of a right to know what’s going on, though it’s definitely a blurry line
  • The complete disagreement over basic details makes it hard to have an informed opinion — the hotel claims he was sitting in the lobby without a mask, throwing things, and blocking the emergency exit, while he claims none of that is true
  • This was early on in the pandemic, and I totally believe there were a lack of policies in place; after all, this was at a time when people weren’t wearing masks, and when hotels also weren’t even requiring them yet
  • If Ray was in fact acting the way the hotel claims, then I feel like the priority should have been reporting him to local health authorities, rather than his employer
  • If the hotel was literally making up lies about Ray that got him fired then of course he is in the right, while if what they say is true, then the case definitely isn’t as strong; I wonder if the hotel still has any video footage from his stay, or if it doesn’t go back that far

There are a lot of unanswered questions here, though this sure is a strange case.

Bottom line

A United Airlines flight attendant contracted coronavirus after working an international trip. He ended up quarantining in a hotel, and the hotel claims he was acting out of line. The hotel decided to report him to his employer, leading to him ultimately being fired.

I’m not sure what exactly to make of this — if United set up this hotel as a quarantine facility for him then it seems like it wouldn’t be totally out of line for the hotel to report back to the company if he’s acting inappropriately (which he denied), especially since they weren’t disclosing any private medical information. However, if he set up this quarantine on his own, then it seems totally out of line for the hotel to contact his employer.

What do you make of this lawsuit?

(Tip of the hat to LoyaltyLobby)

Conversations (140)
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  1. James P McGovern

    @steve

    You failed big time to keep it real.
    If you took a few minutes to read all the posts you’ll see people insulted me personally for my “opinion.” It is my “response” to them that doesn’t go down well with folks like you.

    Why are you taking it so personal? Guilty conscience? That’s your problem.

    Sorry if I distracted you with the truth but it’s not about me. It’s about Jonathon. And...

    @steve

    You failed big time to keep it real.
    If you took a few minutes to read all the posts you’ll see people insulted me personally for my “opinion.” It is my “response” to them that doesn’t go down well with folks like you.

    Why are you taking it so personal? Guilty conscience? That’s your problem.

    Sorry if I distracted you with the truth but it’s not about me. It’s about Jonathon. And the truth is you don’t know what happened.

    My wife of 31 years and my two grown children find it hilarious that you’ve painted me as Jonathon’s F*** Buddy.
    What a class act you’re not. My gay and lesbian friends are rolling on the floor laughing at your ignorance. You’ve proved my point better than anybody so far. Thank you!

    There are a few cowards on this blog.
    I predict you’re the next. Every time I’ve called bullshit on them they squirm and quiver like gagging maggots in a garbage can and disappear off the blog never to come back and respond.

    Why?

    They fear sunlight and disinfectant. It’s a short life span for them if I’m around. They either die in their own pus or move on to another garbage can.

    Which type will you be?

    Keepin it real,
    Jimmy Mack

  2. KevyB

    Obviously United put him up there, otherwise Marriott wouldn't have just magically known who to call. I'm sure it's a hotel United uses all the time and there's some sort of procedure in place for Marriott to call when there are problems, like someone trashing a room or stealing items, or breaking quarantine. And I'm sure United has a code of conduct for its employees when staying in these hotels, just as they would for...

    Obviously United put him up there, otherwise Marriott wouldn't have just magically known who to call. I'm sure it's a hotel United uses all the time and there's some sort of procedure in place for Marriott to call when there are problems, like someone trashing a room or stealing items, or breaking quarantine. And I'm sure United has a code of conduct for its employees when staying in these hotels, just as they would for employees in their workplace. Also, ya think Marriott doesn't have cameras EVERYWHERE? So good luck with this lawsuit...

  3. Steve

    Jimmy Mack,...with all due respect, you do hurl insults , singling people out. Try reading forums/ threads such as this one as a way for people to simply express opinions without confrontation. You might enjoy it! I personally enjoy reading a variety of opinions. I find your extreme “vested” interest in this matter to be a bit obsessive, as you’ve returned to this conversation on numerous occasions to make personal attacks. It makes me wonder...

    Jimmy Mack,...with all due respect, you do hurl insults , singling people out. Try reading forums/ threads such as this one as a way for people to simply express opinions without confrontation. You might enjoy it! I personally enjoy reading a variety of opinions. I find your extreme “vested” interest in this matter to be a bit obsessive, as you’ve returned to this conversation on numerous occasions to make personal attacks. It makes me wonder if you are the unnamed “gentleman” friend, a family member, or just a “F*** buddy?” Then, I guess I would understand why you are so passionate about an article that most of us are commenting on based on the hypothetical, ( with little to no facts), but you seem to have access and privy to facts about this story that are not found in this article for us to read. The fact that you keep returning to this thread really makes me wonder what exactly is your “vested” interest?
    Just keeping it real...Steve

  4. James P McGovern

    @kieran

    Thanks for reading my posts. Glad they struck a nerve with you.

    Cling to the reasonable ones and I won’t hurl personal insults at you like you just did here to me.

    That better?

    Keepin it real,
    Jimmy Mack

  5. Kieran

    Jimmie, you always are pompous and arrogant. Once in a while, there is a reasonable sentence in one of your posts. But few and far between.

  6. LL

    I fly a lot and have certainly seen terrible behavior by passengers, leisure fliers as well as business people. The business people generally start sounding off about ‘who they are’ as far as their status on the airline. Can you imagine a United employee contacting the passengers employer about their employees ill behavior during a flight? No, neither can I.

  7. Ekstar

    I wonder whether he was given proper warning by not only marriott BUT also by United Air? And did marriott proactively report to UA or did UA initiate the inquiry into Ray's behavior?

  8. James P McGovern

    @suresh baldonchani

    The good lord surely did NOT bless you with the gifts of compassion and empathy. Or is there some other reason why you lack those basic human qualities?

    What’s wrong with serving fries if it helps someone support their family?
    Why would you denigrate anyone who’s trying to do that? Was that a lame attempt at humor? Or is that how you roll in this world?

    Kharma Police will find you dude....

    @suresh baldonchani

    The good lord surely did NOT bless you with the gifts of compassion and empathy. Or is there some other reason why you lack those basic human qualities?

    What’s wrong with serving fries if it helps someone support their family?
    Why would you denigrate anyone who’s trying to do that? Was that a lame attempt at humor? Or is that how you roll in this world?

    Kharma Police will find you dude. Won’t be hard for them either. Your superiority complex makes you glow at night.

    Keepin it real,
    Jimmy Mack

  9. James P McGovern

    @kevin

    If keeping it real for dumb asses like you makes me an antagonistic asshole then yes, I am.

    Thanks for reading my posts. Hope you read this one too.

    Keepin it real,
    Jimmy Mack

  10. Jalyn Breeze

    As a current FA, we do get points for stays at some properties. Additionally, if this guy was working as a FA for 20 years, he doesn't just wake up and decide to be a bad FA.

  11. Kevin

    Jimmie Mack, are you always such an antagonistic ass, or is today just a special day?

    (I think the former … I’ve read lots of your opinions and been overwhelmingly underwhelmed)

  12. Suresh Balchandani

    I think getting fired was well earned by this fellow. The hotel staff was well within their rights to inform United (their business associates) of their employees reckless conduct in the middle of a pandemic. United’s decision to terminate him was a good decision. This man displayed poor decision making & bad conduct which in case of flight emergency could result in costing lives. This person should never be employed where good decisions matter. He...

    I think getting fired was well earned by this fellow. The hotel staff was well within their rights to inform United (their business associates) of their employees reckless conduct in the middle of a pandemic. United’s decision to terminate him was a good decision. This man displayed poor decision making & bad conduct which in case of flight emergency could result in costing lives. This person should never be employed where good decisions matter. He should only be working at establishments where he asks if the customers will have fries with that!

  13. James P McGovern

    I’m still confused on when and where he was tested and when he was confirmed positive. Details are sketchy and it’s none of my business but did he fly that last trip infected? Was it determined he was positive while he was away, and United waited until he returned to Newark? That would be irresponsible of United.

    Im told International crews were quarantined in place wherever they were once the airline determined who was...

    I’m still confused on when and where he was tested and when he was confirmed positive. Details are sketchy and it’s none of my business but did he fly that last trip infected? Was it determined he was positive while he was away, and United waited until he returned to Newark? That would be irresponsible of United.

    Im told International crews were quarantined in place wherever they were once the airline determined who was exposed. I’ve heard of one airline in Texas where Covid broke out in the training center and folks were told days after they’d been exposed. Half of them were already out flying.

    I also know of one who was told in Hawaii he’d been exposed at training. They let him work the flight back! 4 days later he nearly died in intensive care. They made him use his sick time.

    What about the rest of Jonathon’s crew? And the passengers on his flight? Did United alert all of them they may have been exposed? We’re they made to quarantine as well?

    United is not off the hook here by any stretch in this saga. Neither is Marriott.

    Anybody want to work for an airline these days?

    Come fly with me. Come fly, come fly away.

    Keepin it real,
    Jimmy Mack

  14. Heather Johnson

    Our company has an insurance policy that strictly says if you contract the coronavirus while on a job then they are responsible for putting you up in a hotel food etc during your quarantine. While I'm not positive I would imagine this is the very same case with United airlines and since he contracted the coronavirus while working for them they probably covered his hotel stay and perhaps maybe they even needed to know information...

    Our company has an insurance policy that strictly says if you contract the coronavirus while on a job then they are responsible for putting you up in a hotel food etc during your quarantine. While I'm not positive I would imagine this is the very same case with United airlines and since he contracted the coronavirus while working for them they probably covered his hotel stay and perhaps maybe they even needed to know information while he was in quarantine I'm not sure how Marriott got involved with that. I would think unless Marriott has video surveillance footage that it would be inadmissible in court.

  15. mac282

    Nope, to many unknowns here to make an assessment. However, if he was such a "problem" management has the ability to evict him from the property. They just have to document the infractions and ask him to leave. Management of a National chain also have District Managers, Regional Vice Presidents and a Corporate legal department they could have handed it to.

  16. Susan Cardinale

    He may have earned titanium elite from his spending on a marriott branded credit card.

  17. James P McGovern

    @hHan

    Tell us what you saw Jonathon do at the Courtyard Marriott that was so egregious. Try to use real facts and not what you think is “obvious.”

    Next, we’ll discuss your knowledge of hotel/airline Covid policy as it existed in April of 2020.

    Are you willing to get on a witness stand and back it up?

    What’s that? You weren’t there?
    Never mind.

    Keepin it real,
    Jimmy Mack

  18. Jennifer

    I hope he's also suing UA since the are the ones that actually fired him. I hope everything works out. As the author mentioned, it was early during the pandemic and guidance was not clearly defined. Everyone was confused especially with Trump in office.

  19. H han

    The hotel would not have contacted the employer unless the employer was paying for it .That's part of their privacy policy its obvious he was staying per their requirements. Everyone else has to obey the rules why did he think he's exempt and titanium status does not apply when it's being paid for by someone else

  20. James P McGovern

    @chet

    You need to read up on the story. He wasn’t on a layover, ok? It’s an important aspect of the story and you need to comprehend that. I’ll say it again. He was not on a layover. It was a 14-day mandated quarantine from his ungrateful employer who likely got him sick in the first place. Far from a layover.

    There are over 3000 flight attendants who’ve contracted Covid on the job. At least...

    @chet

    You need to read up on the story. He wasn’t on a layover, ok? It’s an important aspect of the story and you need to comprehend that. I’ll say it again. He was not on a layover. It was a 14-day mandated quarantine from his ungrateful employer who likely got him sick in the first place. Far from a layover.

    There are over 3000 flight attendants who’ve contracted Covid on the job. At least 20 dead now. Yeah, let’s chill.

    @Tspesrs

    Just remember you don’t have both sides. Unless you’ve spoken with Jonathon?

    Whatever you’re “reading between the lines” the rest of us can’t see. It is not reality and the end of your post is pure fiction. Stop guessing. Stop smearing.

    The only alcohol involved here just might be you.

    How’s it feel to get smeared by a complete stranger?

    Keepin it real,
    Jimmy Mack

  21. James P McGivern

    @Chet

    You really need to read up on the story before you invent your own version of it. He wasn’t on a layover.
    OK? I’ll say it again. He wasn’t on a layover. Everybody got that part?
    It might be the only fact we know for sure. Nobody lays over in Wilmington, DE that I know of. Great town. No layovers.

    He was on a mandated 14-day quarantine by his ungrateful employer who...

    @Chet

    You really need to read up on the story before you invent your own version of it. He wasn’t on a layover.
    OK? I’ll say it again. He wasn’t on a layover. Everybody got that part?
    It might be the only fact we know for sure. Nobody lays over in Wilmington, DE that I know of. Great town. No layovers.

    He was on a mandated 14-day quarantine by his ungrateful employer who likely got him sick in the first place. Nobody remembers this now but in the beginning of the outbreak flight attendants were being disciplined for wearing a mask in the cabin!!

    Let that sink in y’all.

    There are at least 3000 known flight attendants who’ve contracted Covid at work. Over 20 dead now. If Jonathon had died in that hotel would anybody here know about it?

    Maybe Lefty knows who the latest one was. He’s on it I’m sure. I hope he doesn’t invade anybody’s privacy this time.

    @Tspesrs

    I just want to remind you that you don’t have both sides. Unless you’ve spoken with Jonathon?

    Whatever you’re “reading between the lines” no one else sees. It is not reality and the end of your post is pure fiction. Get the facts. Stop guessing. Stop smearing.

    The only influence of alcohol here just might be you.

    How’s it feel to get smeared by a complete stranger?

    Keepin it real,
    Jimmy Mack

  22. Chet

    Hmmmmm,....won’t mention names, but someone on this thread needs to “chill!”
    Everyone here has an opinion, and it’s okay to “agree to disagree.” Sometimes, a different opinion helps one understand a different point of view, a different perspective that one would have not thought of. It makes me wonder how some people make it through the day getting so upset over opinions being shared......
    “It must be difficult being you.”

  23. Chet

    We don’t know all the facts,...but if he was on a layover, he is definitely on company time, therefore, his termination is more than justified. During the height of COVID19...hotels do have an obligation to report those who violate quarantine. Many hotels implemented a o e time key access inorder to make it more difficult to break the rules. Our society has become one that rules don’t apply to oneself,... and the attitude that “it’s...

    We don’t know all the facts,...but if he was on a layover, he is definitely on company time, therefore, his termination is more than justified. During the height of COVID19...hotels do have an obligation to report those who violate quarantine. Many hotels implemented a o e time key access inorder to make it more difficult to break the rules. Our society has become one that rules don’t apply to oneself,... and the attitude that “it’s my right” is a bigger pandemic than COVID19.

  24. TaraG

    People are saying this isn't a HIPAA issue, but in fact it could be, but likely more so for United than the hotel. If the employee disclosed to the hotel that he was there for a COVID quarrentine, that would mean HIPAA wasn't an issue, but if United disclosed to the hotel that he had a positive COVID diagnosis, then they violated HIPAA.

    I am not speaking on his behavior, but it depends on...

    People are saying this isn't a HIPAA issue, but in fact it could be, but likely more so for United than the hotel. If the employee disclosed to the hotel that he was there for a COVID quarrentine, that would mean HIPAA wasn't an issue, but if United disclosed to the hotel that he had a positive COVID diagnosis, then they violated HIPAA.

    I am not speaking on his behavior, but it depends on his contract with United as to whether they were the ones to inform the hotel of his COVID diagnosis and if they had authorization to disclose his health status. I find it hard to believe that airline staff routinely sign away their HIPAA rights, so if the hotel reported him for violating quarrentine policies based on their knowledge of his COVID status, it all comes down to who informed them of his health status. If United did it first when they booked the quarrentine stay and if United doesn't have record of his agreement to waive his HIPAA rights, then they violated HIPAA. If nothing else, he could have legal recourse against United for that.

    And if United violated HIPAA, a lawyer could argue that United can't act on any information reported by the hotel directly related to his health status, without taking into account the HIPAA breach.

  25. Tspears

    It's tough to tell with both sides having different stories...

    I doubt Marriott would go out of their way to target a random FA staying, but if he was booked under the United group rate, and was misbehaving, then it makes sense to let UA know. He is representing UA when he's staying there, and is getting a steep discount for the partnership.

    Reading between the lines a bit, it seemed like he may have...

    It's tough to tell with both sides having different stories...

    I doubt Marriott would go out of their way to target a random FA staying, but if he was booked under the United group rate, and was misbehaving, then it makes sense to let UA know. He is representing UA when he's staying there, and is getting a steep discount for the partnership.

    Reading between the lines a bit, it seemed like he may have tried to get special treatment for his status, which he wasn't eligible for, and then potentially wasn't following the hotel/airline quarantine requirements... I'm guessing him having a date, throwing things, and blocking exits probably means there was alcohol involved.

  26. James P McGovern

    @Sean

    Just an amazing post Sean. You clearly know ZERO about the facts here, like most of us. And you clearly know ZERO about hotel/airline contracts, like all of us. But seriously, get a grip on yourself.

    “...the behavior was so bad the manager had to take time from his day...”

    Good lord man where do you get this? What evidence do you have Sean? You weren’t there dude!! What the hell do you...

    @Sean

    Just an amazing post Sean. You clearly know ZERO about the facts here, like most of us. And you clearly know ZERO about hotel/airline contracts, like all of us. But seriously, get a grip on yourself.

    “...the behavior was so bad the manager had to take time from his day...”

    Good lord man where do you get this? What evidence do you have Sean? You weren’t there dude!! What the hell do you base that on? Just incredible that you spit that out there and you know ZERO of what you speak of. Holy crap!

    I’m not trying to insult you but a guy contracted Covid and lost his livelihood for what could be a wrongful termination. And you find this amusing? You’re gonna try to pass that by me? No. Sorry Sean. You make ZERO sense.

    Why would Marriott be lying? For the same reason you’re lying here. Because they can.

    “...I lived this same situation...”

    No you didn’t Sean. That’s a lie. You’ve never been in this situation.
    Never. No one has. Only Jonathon. And the lack of compassion for this guy is disgusting. He didn’t deserve this.

    I pray he’s recovered so he can get a chance to spend Marriott and United’s money. I hope he leaves them with ZERO.

    Keepin it real,
    Jimmy Mack

  27. Sean Randel

    This former employee has ZERO case against Marriott. They did not tell United to fire him. The ONLY way a hotel knows where you are employed is if you are using your connection to them for a discount OR they are paying for it. Once that happens, Marriott is well within their rights to contact an unruly guest.
    The other thing I think is forgotten here, is what does Marriott have to gain from...

    This former employee has ZERO case against Marriott. They did not tell United to fire him. The ONLY way a hotel knows where you are employed is if you are using your connection to them for a discount OR they are paying for it. Once that happens, Marriott is well within their rights to contact an unruly guest.
    The other thing I think is forgotten here, is what does Marriott have to gain from lying? The behaviour was so bad the manager had to take time from their day to contact United because of it. The idea that the manager wanted to kick out a guest for no reason or just for shits and giggles is stupid.
    Finally, I have lived this exact situation when traveling for my company. Out corporate offices have a contract for rooms at a hotel near the offices. While in town for a training many employees think it is party time away from home on the company dime. Many drink way too much and come to the training hung over or barely able to stay away. One of the guys in a session I attended several years ago got drunk in the hotel bar. He decided to make a complete ass of himself and was inappropriate with a server. The hotel sent a ,message to our HR department and that guy was no longer employed the next day. I actually was required to give a statement on what I saw of his behaviour. So YES, when they pay, you follow THEIR rules.

  28. DaveS

    1. Why was he quarantined in Wilmington and not Newark?
    2. Regardless of whether Marriott had rules posted, the airlines have rules for quarantined employees that employees must explicitly follow; incidentally, this includes not having a companion stay with you.
    3. I don't think his Bonvoy status is relevant to how he is treated or how he acts. However, while a Bonvoy member can obtain Titanium status on a yearly basis, Platinum is the highest lifetime award.

  29. Judi

    Maybe acting erratically due to Covid? I agree with above hotel would be a difficult place to isolate and would others be allowed to know to help protect themselves?

  30. Chereli

    Two things: 1.) If the hotel knew he was positive for the Covid but said he denied it how would they have known he indeed had Covid? United must have paid for the stay & informed the hotel it was with purpose for him to quarantine. quarantine. Health officials don’t call hotels to inform them a person with Covid is staying there, and 2.) I once stayed at a Marriott property using a family members...

    Two things: 1.) If the hotel knew he was positive for the Covid but said he denied it how would they have known he indeed had Covid? United must have paid for the stay & informed the hotel it was with purpose for him to quarantine. quarantine. Health officials don’t call hotels to inform them a person with Covid is staying there, and 2.) I once stayed at a Marriott property using a family members discount. I had reason to believe a Marriott employee had stolen my wallet so I loudly complained to the hotel. They basically threatened that if I kept complaining they would contact my family member & due to my “bad behavior” they could be fired. So, yes whomever pays for your stay or helps with a discount can be notified of your bad behavior & Marriott won’t hesitate to do it.

    Lastly he was probably “blocking the exit” by either standing by an exit door in an attempt to smoke or get outside for a few minutes. This seems legit to me.

  31. Sherroy Johnson

    What I Think. He About To Be Paid & Get His Job Back.

  32. Cindy Rich

    What I don't understand is, if he flew into EWR, why did they have him quarantining in Wilmington, DE- about 3 hrs away?

  33. James P McGovern

    @Jon

    That phrase caught my eye as well.

    “Blocking emergency exits” is an airline term and not a hotel term. Flight attendants are trained to make sure the exit is safe and operable if that moment should ever arise. You don’t send people to an exit that won’t work for some reason. There’s not a lot of time to determine why or how to “fix” the problem so the exit gets “blocked” and folks...

    @Jon

    That phrase caught my eye as well.

    “Blocking emergency exits” is an airline term and not a hotel term. Flight attendants are trained to make sure the exit is safe and operable if that moment should ever arise. You don’t send people to an exit that won’t work for some reason. There’s not a lot of time to determine why or how to “fix” the problem so the exit gets “blocked” and folks get re-directed to other exits.

    At hotels, exits are commonly referred to as “Fire Escapes”

    Some hotel guests, like me, might use the fire escape staircase rather than wait for a slow elevator. Possibly that dude used something to keep a certain exit open and available to leave and re-enter on his own. Possibly... we don’t know. He would need to answer for that if it’s the case.
    Doesn’t sound like a capital crime to me, but it’s wrong to tamper with their property.

    But I would think a hotel like Marriott has seen that move before and there’s a better way to address that with a guest than destroying someone’s career.

    I’m just curious to learn if Marriott calls or emails the employers of all its unruly guests. Or is that only deployed on airline employees?

    Keepin it real,
    Jimmy Mack

  34. Jon

    Hmm, "blocking emergency exits", maybe that translates to smoking in the stairways under the 'No Smoking' sign.

  35. James P McGovern

    @Jose
    I’m beginning to lose all hope in you. I thought maybe a sliver of rationality would seep into that troubled brain of yours, but each of your lovely posts reveal you’re incapable of self-reflection.

    Your first post started like this:

    Jose May 20
    [email protected] P McGovern, the US has many idiots like you that is the reason why so many people got infected...”

    And later: “[email protected] P McGovern, allow me...

    @Jose
    I’m beginning to lose all hope in you. I thought maybe a sliver of rationality would seep into that troubled brain of yours, but each of your lovely posts reveal you’re incapable of self-reflection.

    Your first post started like this:

    Jose May 20
    [email protected] P McGovern, the US has many idiots like you that is the reason why so many people got infected...”

    And later: “[email protected] P McGovern, allow me to make you realize how dumb you are...”

    And one more: “..,@James P McGovern... starting to get out of your parents basement or pay rent, don’t forget to take responsibility of cleaning the toilet bowl instead of having your parents do it for you...”

    Hell you’ve even got me at the January 6th insurrection as a Trumper!!

    Who knew you were so eloquent and charming and all-knowing? Such a compassionate guy too!

    All this because I stated my view on Marriott’s role in this. That clearly struck a nerve with you and you haven’t slept since.

    Don’t you wonder how that flight attendant is sleeping these days? The guy went to work one day and contracted the virus. Ten days later he’s unemployed after 20 years with the airline because Marriott employees felt uncomfortable around him and wanted him gone. They got sick of dealing with him. Clearly they knew why he was there and assumed, wrongly, that United was paying. Oops!! Better call the lawyers.

    I want to assure you right now that when this is over your beloved Marriott will be just fine. So will United Airlines. They may have to cut a big check at settlement with this guy who as you insist is “...roaming around infecting people...” Gee, I wonder who roamed around and infected the flight attendant? Was it you Jose?

    Again, nobody knows what really happened at the hotel but when the Marriott employees finally get deposed by the plaintiff’s attorney you may need a big towel to wipe the egg off your face. Send us a picture, please.

    Keepin it real,
    Jimmy Mack

  36. [email protected]

    United don’t pay for flight attendants to quarantine. They send them home. Especially not elite nights. He paid for his own. They had no right to contact United. He had no right to act ugly if he did indeed behave in an unsatisfactory manor.

  37. James P McGovern

    @jeff shilling

    I just read your earlier post and thanks for the legal insight. As an attorney could you elaborate further on your opinion that “... I do not believe, especially a flight attendant, has a right to privacy when their conduct is public...”

    Why “especially a flight attendant?”

    Do you apply your standard to other occupations, or only flight attendants?
    What is it about the occupation that leads you to conclude that a...

    @jeff shilling

    I just read your earlier post and thanks for the legal insight. As an attorney could you elaborate further on your opinion that “... I do not believe, especially a flight attendant, has a right to privacy when their conduct is public...”

    Why “especially a flight attendant?”

    Do you apply your standard to other occupations, or only flight attendants?
    What is it about the occupation that leads you to conclude that a flight attendant is not entitled to privacy rights?

    That’s an interesting position particularly when this alleged incident apparently did not happen on an airplane or in an airport. In fact it likely didn’t happen “in public” at all.

    I could be wrong but I don’t think Marriott considers their property as a “public place” such as a playground or a park or an airport. Their bellhops and doormen seem to do a great job keeping the drifters and homeless off their property. As a guest we expect that. In essence, a hotel protects our privacy as we stay on their property.

    If Marriott now claims (under duress of litigation) that their hotels are public places that would surely be a convenient change of stripes, eh?

    A hotel lobby can be a busy place with their guests, but that shouldn’t imply it’s a “public place.” I can’t walk in there off the street and unfurl my sleeping bag next to the piano.

    I’m not picking a fight. Just seeking some clarification on how you arrived on your position regarding flight attendants and their privacy.

    I have a suspicion other attorneys would disagree with you.

    Keepin it real,
    Jimmy Mack

  38. Jose

    @James P McGovern

    First of all I must make that clear I did not know your partners passed away 20 years ago and by no mean I am putting your parents down and I have not done that in any of my comments toward you.

    Yes. I did say that the United Employee should be jailed for attempted murder and I will say that again. I tried to ignore you on that but I see...

    @James P McGovern

    First of all I must make that clear I did not know your partners passed away 20 years ago and by no mean I am putting your parents down and I have not done that in any of my comments toward you.

    Yes. I did say that the United Employee should be jailed for attempted murder and I will say that again. I tried to ignore you on that but I see that you must be very hurt for what I have said about the United employee and nagging like a loser and continue to bring it up what I said "You want a person jailed for attempted murder and you have no clue what happened". Yes. I will say it one more time the United Employee should be jailed for attempted murder, are you happy now and what are you going to do? I suggest you go see a psychologist that may help your issue and feeling.

    How many people got infected with Coronavirus and died, if you know you are tested positive and still roaming around and have a great chance to infect others and potentially killing other people, so you are saying the same for people who know they have AIDS and it is ok for them to have unprotected sex. Are you that dumb to even understand this simple logic or I guess you must be very selfish to think about yourself only???

    You said "I have no clue what happened. There is no victim, no crime. Nobody who posted here yet has any clue what happened, I find it very sad that this United employee is forced to sue to get justice, As for Marriott, they just gave me a reason to never stay there again".

    You are sound like you know the fact and Marriott is in the wrong. How do you know no one got infected at that Marriott because of him? You said no one has any fact for sure what the blogger said is 100% true and criticized what I said is wrong, this proved you are such a hypocrite, do you have the fact what the blogger wrote is wrong? I did not make you laugh but you are doing a great job yourself.

  39. James P McGovern

    @JBrit

    Just imagine for a minute if flight attendants could call or email the employers of some of the wack jobs they encounter every day.

    Here’s an idea: Let’s gather everybody’s employer info before the flight and put everybody’s livelihood on the line and hold them all accountable for their behavior on the flight, just as people do to flight attendants, or gate agents.

    Might just even the playing field a bit and make...

    @JBrit

    Just imagine for a minute if flight attendants could call or email the employers of some of the wack jobs they encounter every day.

    Here’s an idea: Let’s gather everybody’s employer info before the flight and put everybody’s livelihood on the line and hold them all accountable for their behavior on the flight, just as people do to flight attendants, or gate agents.

    Might just even the playing field a bit and make it a better experience for all.

    What goes around comes around.

    Keepin it real,
    Jimmy Mack

  40. JBrit

    A hotel telling on a guest to their employer sets a horrible precedent. Marriot screwed up here. Hotels are meant to be escapes from day to day life. Of he was being an obnoxious cv19 idiot, then kick him out, but don't tell his employer.

  41. Rich

    As a very long time hotel manager, I was always appauled at how abusive SOME (not all) airline crews would be when they did overnights at the hotel. Some crew members never ceased to amaze me about their bad behavior and bad attitudes. SOME....NOT ALL!

    I too had to get on the phone many times to report bad behavior to the operations people at various airlines. ( interestingly only domestic airlines...the international crews NEVER...

    As a very long time hotel manager, I was always appauled at how abusive SOME (not all) airline crews would be when they did overnights at the hotel. Some crew members never ceased to amaze me about their bad behavior and bad attitudes. SOME....NOT ALL!

    I too had to get on the phone many times to report bad behavior to the operations people at various airlines. ( interestingly only domestic airlines...the international crews NEVER gave us issues. The international crews were always polite and well behaved.)

    So again.. I'm not surprised if Marriott's version of the events are deemed accurate. I bet our Marriott friends only reported the behavior as a last resort and didn't take the issues allegedly observed lightly. I would also hopr that their report to United was because United was billed for the room.

    To all the airline crews that work hard and know that respect is a two way street , you ARE appreciated. To those of you with bad attitudes. Get over yourselves! Really!

    I don't think this guy's status is relevant, but we would not allow crews to use lotalty programs. The contract rates were too low to be giving perks.

  42. Karen

    Thank you Karens for all your comments.

    The next time we witness someone do something we don’t like on a plane, or
    at a hotel, or
    at a conference, or
    at a restaurant, or
    at a bar,
    check if that person is there on business, and if they are, immediately report them to their employer. Or call 911.

    SKAAT
    Several Karens At A Time

  43. James P McGovern

    Who passed Covid onto the flight attendant? A United passenger?
    Shall we find that person and arrest them for attempted murder? Or does that only apply to flight crews?

    Where does it stop and compassion begin?

    Might as well just rename this blog
    “One Speculation At A Time”

    If there’s anyone here on this blog who tested positive for Covid at their workplace, then got told to find a hotel and stay...

    Who passed Covid onto the flight attendant? A United passenger?
    Shall we find that person and arrest them for attempted murder? Or does that only apply to flight crews?

    Where does it stop and compassion begin?

    Might as well just rename this blog
    “One Speculation At A Time”

    If there’s anyone here on this blog who tested positive for Covid at their workplace, then got told to find a hotel and stay away from everybody... indefinitely I should add..., then got fired by their said employer for a set of hotel grievances that no one can factually verify... please, raise your hand.

    Nobody. I didn’t think so. This guy was treated badly by his employer, and then the hotel. If he went a little stir crazy in his confinement, I can’t blame him. It’s not normal is it?

    I hope he gets justice.

    Keepin it real,
    Jimmy Mack

  44. Misty S Branch

    My question is this: Did the hotel staff address any of these issues with Mr. Ray before reporting him to United? If United paid as we assume is the situation here, then they are the client with Marriott but even if thats the case, why not talk with him and come to a resolution before calling United??

  45. John in san diego

    Its pretty clear the most accurate comment is "we dont have all the facts".
    A point no one raised is it could be argued that his behavior was caused by being sick from covid! I know when I have the flu I can be a miserable SOB. In that case termination is just wrong.
    On the flip side if a person knows he has covid and is behaving in a way placing others...

    Its pretty clear the most accurate comment is "we dont have all the facts".
    A point no one raised is it could be argued that his behavior was caused by being sick from covid! I know when I have the flu I can be a miserable SOB. In that case termination is just wrong.
    On the flip side if a person knows he has covid and is behaving in a way placing others at risk, intentionally, unecessarily, some would argue thats attempted murder.
    I dont know what really happened so wont make that call.
    Yeah, if you have an active infection, and cough on an 80 year old, theres a good probability theyre dead in a week.

  46. James P McGovern

    @Jose

    You made me cry today. Tears of laughter at your bone-headed comments. Also, I’m not interested in your politics just so we’re clear on that. Nobody is frankly. Let’s try to address the subject matter.

    “...The flight attendant should be jailed for attempted murder...” —Jose

    Other than hating on America (except our Marriotts) you seem to lack any human soul. You want a person jailed for attempted murder and you have no clue what...

    @Jose

    You made me cry today. Tears of laughter at your bone-headed comments. Also, I’m not interested in your politics just so we’re clear on that. Nobody is frankly. Let’s try to address the subject matter.

    “...The flight attendant should be jailed for attempted murder...” —Jose

    Other than hating on America (except our Marriotts) you seem to lack any human soul. You want a person jailed for attempted murder and you have no clue what happened. There is no victim, no crime. Nobody who posted here yet has any clue what happened. Even the guy who writes the blog warned everybody he didn’t have all the facts. That didn’t stop you. You just want the flight attendant in jail.... Do they do this stuff in that country you live in?

    Marriott handled this poorly and United did what they always do, fire the employee first, then ask questions.
    Both corporations have some explaining to do. Unless this flight attendant tried to burn the hotel down or assaulted the other guests, they have no defense. So far the dude has been accused of weird behavior.

    Ironically, if weird behavior was a violation of some statute there would be thousands of arrests at the airports every day.

    Jose, why do you keep bringing my parents into this? They’ve been gone 20 years bro. What’s up with that tactic? What did they do to you?

    Better yet, what did your parents do to you to make you such a hateful human being? Not that I care to know all that much. But, there’s still time to get professional help for you.

    Keepin it real,
    Jimmy Mack

  47. Brian

    In your opening paragraph you state your confusion over his status (assuming he is earning when crew is staying). Did you ever think that he might use his flight benefits to travel a lot when not working - which requires hotel stays that are paid for out of pocket? Not unreasonable and could easily earn status that way.

  48. Ray

    I love staying at the Marriott, my family and I have been staying at their hotels for years and now will need to find another hotel to say at. Marriott wrong for this.......

  49. G. Palmer

    I seriously doubt that the hotel had any deal in place to “manage” someone’s quarantine. There just a hotel and have no standing as a healthcare agent. Why would the hotel even get involved in this? If they become the “gatekeeper” they could be held responsible for someone’s behavior. Would they really want the responsibility of overseeing an individual’s behavior? Seems like the hotel has no business getting someone fired. As companies routinely stay away...

    I seriously doubt that the hotel had any deal in place to “manage” someone’s quarantine. There just a hotel and have no standing as a healthcare agent. Why would the hotel even get involved in this? If they become the “gatekeeper” they could be held responsible for someone’s behavior. Would they really want the responsibility of overseeing an individual’s behavior? Seems like the hotel has no business getting someone fired. As companies routinely stay away from giving any kind of negative reference, the hotel seems a little out on a limb to me.

  50. iamhere

    I wonder how he will be able to prove that he was not engaging as the hotel claimed.
    If this was United booked and paid for, the question becomes if they have the right to know the details.
    Marriott's corporate rate rules policy may also come into play because I wonder about the policies regarding employer booked and paid stays

  51. John

    Some clarifying remarks. I hope it helps.
    1) Mainline United doesn't serve Wilmington, DE., so he wasn't on a layover there. I don't think Wilmington, DE is served at all, not even Express, at least not now.
    2) Therefore, he was almost certainly staying on his own dime. I, too, have a Marriott Bonvoy VISA, and get Marriott points from my VISA purchases. I was Titanium at some point, now Platinum Elite.
    ...

    Some clarifying remarks. I hope it helps.
    1) Mainline United doesn't serve Wilmington, DE., so he wasn't on a layover there. I don't think Wilmington, DE is served at all, not even Express, at least not now.
    2) Therefore, he was almost certainly staying on his own dime. I, too, have a Marriott Bonvoy VISA, and get Marriott points from my VISA purchases. I was Titanium at some point, now Platinum Elite.
    3) When I check in at a Marriott, I always give them my Bonvoy number, layover or not. This usually gets me into their Club Lounge, and if I purchase something and charge it to my room, then I'll get some points and might get a stay.

    If you use TVL code on the reservation, you don't get points. He may have been staying there on points accumulated by his Bonvoy VISA, which I have done as well.

    The rest is up to litigation/speculation.

    @Gray, one thing you said above, "Also curious is that the /hotel/ (well, hotel chain) is the defendant and United is not joined with a wrongful dismissal complaint."

    Let me say that your comments overall were very informative, but consider that Ray is an airline employee governed by the Railway Labor Act. I believe any such "wrongful dismissal complaint" would be thrown out in civil court because the proper venue would be through the union grievance process which may ultimately end up before a System Board of Adjustment (arbitration).

    @M Casey. "In some instances a company chooses to hear only 2 cases per month,...". This depends on the CBA in place. Not sure about AFA, but at least one union I know ;-) determines which cases go to System Board, not the company. Moreover, usually all disciplinary cases go to SBA if not resolved through grievance at the lower levels, because if a union failed to take a disciplinary case to System Board, then the union may be liable to a Duty of Fair Representation suit, which would indeed be held in a civil court. Depending on the facts of the case, if it's not a clear-cut misconduct, of course.

    As an aviation professional, it's always humorous to see how the media misreports aviation stories. This one is no different. Lots of holes and misinformation.

  52. Steve SEA

    @Eskimo. That quote is from Delta's anti-union campaign. It was a major flop then too.

  53. Steve SEA

    As a recent former crew member, I say this: it is unlikely that hotel staff deliberately set out to attack this crewmember (even though hotel staff generally dislike air crew the most as they tend to be primadonnas). If the employee is on the company's time he's still working. Even if it is just per diem.

  54. Jose

    @James P McGovern Thank You for letting me know that you couldn't even handle the loss of the election for the one you have supported, you were too depressed on Jan 6 that's the reason you were too busy crying on your mom's shoulder like a loser that day. That's ok being a loser and cry like a loser, let it out at least you feel better and it is healthier for you.

    I feel...

    @James P McGovern Thank You for letting me know that you couldn't even handle the loss of the election for the one you have supported, you were too depressed on Jan 6 that's the reason you were too busy crying on your mom's shoulder like a loser that day. That's ok being a loser and cry like a loser, let it out at least you feel better and it is healthier for you.

    I feel so sorry for you that you are so hurt that I agree with what the Marriott employee did, it must not easy for you to handle it....remember cry like a baby you will feel better that way.

  55. Marla

    As a hotel manager , back up video will be witness. If the room was being paid for by United then yes, I would inform the guest that if policy wasn’t followed we would contact the person paying or ask him to find other accommodations if he was truly doing these despite policy. It is a private business and they can impose policies. These types of cases go through insurance generally.The man will get something...

    As a hotel manager , back up video will be witness. If the room was being paid for by United then yes, I would inform the guest that if policy wasn’t followed we would contact the person paying or ask him to find other accommodations if he was truly doing these despite policy. It is a private business and they can impose policies. These types of cases go through insurance generally.The man will get something no doubt as a settlement from insurance with or without video.

  56. Eskimo

    @M Casey

    Your comment,
    "In some instances a company chooses to hear only 2 cases per month, 12 a year; meaning a fired employee is still out of work"

    So what's the point in paying union dues if they can't defend you but the union leader is buddies with management.
    Sounds like this quote is still valid.
    "Union dues cost around $700 a year. A new video game system with the latest hits sounds like fun."
    No wonder PS5 is sold out everywhere.

  57. 1Aplease!

    @Tyler, I am Lifetime Titanium w Marriott. I am also Travel Industry and rarely get ppoints when traveling on an industry rate (same thing as crew) but I have travelled lots.....more than enough to qualify for Lifetime Titanium after the merger since I had 990 nights and 13 years Plat (you needed 750 + 10 years (I think) for the LT designation.

  58. James P McGovern

    Jose
    As usual you got it all mixed up. We are glad YOU are not an American and YOU don’t live in our states. There’s no more room for haters like you.

    Sorry to disappoint you but I wasn’t at the insurrection on Jan 6 and I could never vote for that loser. Did that just crush your fantasy?

    Jose, you suggested jailing a flight attendant for attempted murder for sitting in...

    Jose
    As usual you got it all mixed up. We are glad YOU are not an American and YOU don’t live in our states. There’s no more room for haters like you.

    Sorry to disappoint you but I wasn’t at the insurrection on Jan 6 and I could never vote for that loser. Did that just crush your fantasy?

    Jose, you suggested jailing a flight attendant for attempted murder for sitting in a hotel lobby without a mask, (as alleged by unknown Marriott employees). They were your words. I read them. Others did too. Don’t try to walk them back now. Attack me all you want but you own that comment.

    Jose, if you’re honest with yourself (try real hard), your mirror will show you 3 faces... an idiot, a hypocrite, and a guy who surely needs a spelling class or two.

    Keepin it real,
    Jimmy Mack

  59. LivingInTheRealWorld

    @D3kingg: while off-topic, I call B.S. on your statement: "Texas now has zero COVID deaths after re opening and ending the mask mandates two months ago." According to two major COVID tracking sites, John Hopkins and WorldoMeter, over 3,800 people have died from COVID-19 in Texas between March 19 and May 19 2021. These were real people, with real lives and real friends and families who are grieving their loss. On behalf of them, and...

    @D3kingg: while off-topic, I call B.S. on your statement: "Texas now has zero COVID deaths after re opening and ending the mask mandates two months ago." According to two major COVID tracking sites, John Hopkins and WorldoMeter, over 3,800 people have died from COVID-19 in Texas between March 19 and May 19 2021. These were real people, with real lives and real friends and families who are grieving their loss. On behalf of them, and the families and friends of the over 600,000 Americans who have died from COVID in the past 16 months, piss off.

  60. Jose

    @James P McGovern

    Glad that I don't live in the States and I am not an American. Please be a man and keep your promise to never stay at any Marriott again as I love Marriott hotels. You have already degraded the USA and please don't do the same to Marriott.

    By the way did you visit capitol hill on Jan 6th? You must felt lucky that you did not get caught I guess. And if you want to know who is the idiot just look at the mirror and you will definitely see one.

  61. James P McGovern

    Jose
    You are right. I was wrong. You’re not the hotel guy. That was Jason. My bad.
    I appreciate the pity.

    However, that still makes you the idiot who suggested jailing the flight attendant for attempted murder. Thank you for reminding us who you are.

    Jose, only an idiot at your level would offer a post that he “...makes more money, has a better job..., cleans toilets better...”, etc.

    Are you...

    Jose
    You are right. I was wrong. You’re not the hotel guy. That was Jason. My bad.
    I appreciate the pity.

    However, that still makes you the idiot who suggested jailing the flight attendant for attempted murder. Thank you for reminding us who you are.

    Jose, only an idiot at your level would offer a post that he “...makes more money, has a better job..., cleans toilets better...”, etc.

    Are you sure you didn’t clean hotel rooms with Jason? You seem fixated on sanitation issues. When did that start? And speaking of doctors... you really should get your anger issues resolved. Not a good look for you.

    Maybe Jason will help you?
    Wear a mask when you go.

    Keepin it real,
    Jimmy Mack

  62. Jose

    @James P McGovern....Allow me to make you realize how dumb you are. I am certain I have much more money and have a better job or business then you have......

    Staringt to get out of your parents basement or pay rent, don't forget to take responsibility of cleaning the toilet bowl instead of having your parents to do it for you since you are already eating and living there for free.

    I highly suggesting you...

    @James P McGovern....Allow me to make you realize how dumb you are. I am certain I have much more money and have a better job or business then you have......

    Staringt to get out of your parents basement or pay rent, don't forget to take responsibility of cleaning the toilet bowl instead of having your parents to do it for you since you are already eating and living there for free.

    I highly suggesting you to see a doctor as you can't even read properly. Did I ever mention I have worked at a hotel? I feel pity for you.

  63. James P McGovern

    @Jose

    My apologies for naming you Jason.

    Keepin it real
    Jimmy Mack

  64. James P McGovern

    @Jason

    So nice of you to reach out to me. Now that you’ve made a fool of yourself with your posts, allow me to respond directly to you.

    Clearly you’ve got a problem with flight attendants that dates back to your cleaning hotel room days.
    “...pilots were never a problem, flight attendants were horrible..”

    It must be a bitch Jason when the customer tells you that your hotel is shoddy and lacking in towels....

    @Jason

    So nice of you to reach out to me. Now that you’ve made a fool of yourself with your posts, allow me to respond directly to you.

    Clearly you’ve got a problem with flight attendants that dates back to your cleaning hotel room days.
    “...pilots were never a problem, flight attendants were horrible..”

    It must be a bitch Jason when the customer tells you that your hotel is shoddy and lacking in towels. And the hotel van is always late.

    And it’s got to be challenging to monitor their phone calls and keep track of the ladies and gentlemen who came and went as you performed your hotel duties.

    You poor thing. It must be the most difficult job in the world. No wonder you need help.

    Jason, a quick glance of your own posts will reveal to you that the only idiot here is you. So far you’re the only poster who’d like to see the flight attendant in jail for attempted murder (your words).

    Jason, should the hotel industry ever spit you out unfairly I’m giving you free advice here... don’t become a judge.

    Keepin it real,
    Jimmy Mack

  65. Amy

    Marriott employee.

    They're not SUPPOSED to get Elite nights, but depending on how the payment is set up, may get them anyway. I've been yelled at by many a traveler about how "every other hotel" gives them credit.

    If a company is paying for a stay and their employee is mistreating my staff and not complying with direction, being disruptive, etc., you better believe I am informing the paying party.

    The hotel may...

    Marriott employee.

    They're not SUPPOSED to get Elite nights, but depending on how the payment is set up, may get them anyway. I've been yelled at by many a traveler about how "every other hotel" gives them credit.

    If a company is paying for a stay and their employee is mistreating my staff and not complying with direction, being disruptive, etc., you better believe I am informing the paying party.

    The hotel may be a franchise that has its own mandates at the time, it's hard to know.

    Much more information is needed to draw any conclusions here.

  66. Sergio Hernandez

    There's way too many details missing to draw a logical conclusion, and even then, it's all relative to where this case will be tried.

    The only reason I feel that Marriot would have reported him is because UA was paying for it, (and he in "quarantine" in a location not his home) so they couldn't kick him out due to contract "obligations." If this wasn't the case, I don't understand why the eff Marriot...

    There's way too many details missing to draw a logical conclusion, and even then, it's all relative to where this case will be tried.

    The only reason I feel that Marriot would have reported him is because UA was paying for it, (and he in "quarantine" in a location not his home) so they couldn't kick him out due to contract "obligations." If this wasn't the case, I don't understand why the eff Marriot even reached out to UA. Unless this dude was acting all high and mighty with the whole "entitled" attitude, so they "snitched" him out as "payback."

    Whatever the case in getting my kernels ready and pulling the butter out of the fridge, can't wait for people make it about politics!

  67. K. Minor

    Seems like another person acting like an a$$ during the pandemic and not being considerate to others and the local hotel manager had enough and probably had guest or employee complaints. I.e. Mr Guest if you want to be an a$$ and effect my business then I’ll do the same to you.

    One alternative angle that might also have occurred. I’m sure he probably booked the room under a United employee rate which implied...

    Seems like another person acting like an a$$ during the pandemic and not being considerate to others and the local hotel manager had enough and probably had guest or employee complaints. I.e. Mr Guest if you want to be an a$$ and effect my business then I’ll do the same to you.

    One alternative angle that might also have occurred. I’m sure he probably booked the room under a United employee rate which implied he was “on the job” so the hotel manager reported him. If that’s true then it makes sense. If I’m the hotel manager, I’d not want to give special rates to people who aren’t appreciative. And if I’m considering revoking the discount, I contact the company to let them know why. Once United gets a call that their special discount might be revoked, it was all downhill from there.

  68. alex

    I used to work at a Marriott who had a contract with Delta. We were told we could add the crews Marriott number to their reservation and give them their level amenities. We were also told to inform them that they wouldn't get any points or night credits for that stay if they asked, which I later found out was not true. Turns out if you add their Marriott number our system wasn't set up...

    I used to work at a Marriott who had a contract with Delta. We were told we could add the crews Marriott number to their reservation and give them their level amenities. We were also told to inform them that they wouldn't get any points or night credits for that stay if they asked, which I later found out was not true. Turns out if you add their Marriott number our system wasn't set up to distinguish who gets night or points credits so the flight attendants were getting them. I was their for about two years, it was the same when I left.

  69. ChrisC

    SD says:
    May 19, 2021 at 5:53 pm

    I’m still not clear on why Marriott was e-mailing United, even if United were footing the stay. If a guest/patron is exhibiting questionable behavior, it’s up to the health and/or police authorities to determine if someone is being egregiously out of line. Whether he was conducting the bad behavior or not, his employer is not the proper authority. If it wasn’t bad enough to call the...

    SD says:
    May 19, 2021 at 5:53 pm

    I’m still not clear on why Marriott was e-mailing United, even if United were footing the stay. If a guest/patron is exhibiting questionable behavior, it’s up to the health and/or police authorities to determine if someone is being egregiously out of line. Whether he was conducting the bad behavior or not, his employer is not the proper authority. If it wasn’t bad enough to call the cops, then why was it bad enough to tell his employer?

    ***********

    We don't know if the cops were called or not - it's not mentioned in the law suit.

    We don't know if the local health authorites were called or not - again it's not mentioned in the law suit

    Absence of mention is not absence of action on those and other issues on the hotels part.

    This is the claim from the employee in the lawsuit. He and his lawyer will only put into that things that will make their case look stronger.

    If we ever see the reply brief you can bet your bottom $$ that they will mention if the police and / or the health authorities were called.

    And the hotel informing United of any bad behaviour is of a different standard to that used by law enforcement. If say he left trash on the floor of his room or the lobby is that a crime? No it's clearly not but it would be against the standards of behaviour the hotel expects of its guests and could be against the standards United expects of its employees. There is likely something in staff contracts about not doing anything to harm United reputaion.

    Perhaps the hotel contacting United was their way of trying to deal with the situation quietly - after they tried abd failed to moderate his behavioour - hoping someone at United would call him and tell him to behave rather than calling the cops on him.

    The problem is we just don't know about any of that because we only have his side of the story.

  70. HDJr

    As the article presents the case, there are no proven facts from either party. As written, it’s a he said, she said case. The case will be thrown out is no proof is presented. Is there video evidence supporting Marriott’s defense? Are there third party witnesses who will testify for either party? My guess is that there’s more to this suit than was presented in the article. Not enough for me to develop an opinion.

  71. stogieguy7

    Based on the way the story is told here, it seems to favor the flight attendant. HOWEVER, I get the feeling that there's a lot more to this. Tons of gaps here. Those details will be necessary to get anywhere near the truth. Even the details that United used to justify the determination seem to be lacking in the story as told by the flight attendant.

    The FA's Marriott status is a weird detail that...

    Based on the way the story is told here, it seems to favor the flight attendant. HOWEVER, I get the feeling that there's a lot more to this. Tons of gaps here. Those details will be necessary to get anywhere near the truth. Even the details that United used to justify the determination seem to be lacking in the story as told by the flight attendant.

    The FA's Marriott status is a weird detail that doesn't make much sense. If he flew into EWR, why was he quarantined to a Marriott in Wilmington, DE? That's odd. Why would the hotel claim that he wasn't masking (back before that was required) and that he blocked exits (which is a bizarre claim)? In other words, none of this adds up.

  72. Jeff Shilling

    Attorney (not actively practicing in this area) casual comments (not necessarily facts):

    Perhaps the most important thing I would tell someone in reading a situation like this is that I believe Marriott and the employees at Marriott have a right to share anything they observe with an airline employee where they feel such behavior calls into question the ability to do the job. United would certainly need to have a reasonable belief of its truth...

    Attorney (not actively practicing in this area) casual comments (not necessarily facts):

    Perhaps the most important thing I would tell someone in reading a situation like this is that I believe Marriott and the employees at Marriott have a right to share anything they observe with an airline employee where they feel such behavior calls into question the ability to do the job. United would certainly need to have a reasonable belief of its truth and take into account likely multiple factors to show sufficient cause to terminate. I do not believe, especially a flight attendant, has a right to privacy when their conduct is public.

    I would also point out this is not a HIPAA issue. HIPAA does not apply to public conduct and HIPAA is limited to health care workers, insurance, employers, and those that handle the protected information.

    The case is predicated on an underlying claim that Marriott staff made false statements for which they knew were false. This is perhaps the key issue. If they were in fact known false, and if United relied on those as the terminating event, then there is a definite claim. The lawsuit is for Defamation: defense will be the truth. Tortious Interference (with employment): defense will largely be the same - truth but also concern related to employment or a legitimate public concern. Emotional Distress: This will be a no-brainer if the above are resolved in the plaintiff's favor).

    In my opinion, the only real question will be the truth, particularly since this is brought up numerous times in the lawsuit filed. If true, that case crumbles. And determining facts, including truth, is the epicenter of what a jury is for.

  73. Jose

    @James P McGovern, the US has many idiots like you that is the reason why so many people got infected. Regardless how the employee got infected he should be quarantined without any contact with anyone until he is tested negative or sick with symptoms then transfer him to the hospital.

    You said how is it fair for him to be locked up in the hotel, did you ask yourself how is it fair for other people get infected because of him roaming around?

  74. David

    @ M Casey
    Usually airline crews rooms are charged to a master account… Rarely will an airline crew member need to leave a credit card except perhaps for incidentals.

    Having worked for an airport hotel at the front desk for many years, usually the hotel would be informed each day how many crew rooms to expect. When the crew member checked in the billing for room and tax to a master account was already...

    @ M Casey
    Usually airline crews rooms are charged to a master account… Rarely will an airline crew member need to leave a credit card except perhaps for incidentals.

    Having worked for an airport hotel at the front desk for many years, usually the hotel would be informed each day how many crew rooms to expect. When the crew member checked in the billing for room and tax to a master account was already all set up and all we needed was the crewmembers name and sometimes a credit card for incidentals but that was usually based on whatever the contract stated. If the crew member left the hotel without paying for incidentals we could bill the airline and the crewmember would get in trouble with the airline.

  75. M Casey

    @Gorforride

    Your comment,
    “Moreover, he actually gets fired, it’s after a long and tortured union process.”

    Not always the case. Termination can occur before any union actions. Arbitration is where the union can return the employee back to work, but the company gets to chose which arbitration cases they want to hear. In some instances a company chooses to hear only 2 cases per month, 12 a year; meaning a fired employee is still...

    @Gorforride

    Your comment,
    “Moreover, he actually gets fired, it’s after a long and tortured union process.”

    Not always the case. Termination can occur before any union actions. Arbitration is where the union can return the employee back to work, but the company gets to chose which arbitration cases they want to hear. In some instances a company chooses to hear only 2 cases per month, 12 a year; meaning a fired employee is still out of work and will settle to a lesser reward such as coming back to work, without lost time pay and a high level of punishment.

    Arbitration can be the first time the union was involved.

  76. Jose

    Being quarantined and sitting in the lobby, he is lucky that he only got fired from his job, he should be locked up in jail for attempting murder.

  77. Jason

    Right out of university I worked for Westin hotels for 12 years. Mostly in the rooms division. I can tell you that when Westin was Japanese owned, and also when it was owned by Starwood, airline crews - On stays paid by the airline usually for layovers or cancellations - could not and would not accrue nights, points etc. If the crewmember was staying on their own i.e. paying on their own even if on...

    Right out of university I worked for Westin hotels for 12 years. Mostly in the rooms division. I can tell you that when Westin was Japanese owned, and also when it was owned by Starwood, airline crews - On stays paid by the airline usually for layovers or cancellations - could not and would not accrue nights, points etc. If the crewmember was staying on their own i.e. paying on their own even if on a airline discount rate, then points and nights would accrue.

    I will tell you that pilots were never a problem… But flight attendants were horrible. If the shuttle bus from the airport was three minutes late they would come in screaming at The front desk. If a towel was missing they would write nasty comments… Flight attendants overall were a headache… And I can tell you many a time a flight attendant would call down to the desk and say that a gentleman caller would be coming by and to give them a key… So this doesn’t surprise me!

    But there must be more to the story. If UNITED or any employer paid for and covered the quarantine costs for the employee then yes I would imagine Marriott can report whatever they deem necessary. If the conditions of the stay were that the guest be quarantined to his room and not leave… Then yes if Marriott witnesses the guest not following instructions, then yes UNITED or any employer in the situation should be informed.

  78. Jason

    Right out of university I worked for Westin hotels for 12 years. Mostly in the rooms division. I can tell you that when Weston was Japanese owned, and also when it was owned by Starwood, airline crews - On stairs paid by the airline usually for layovers or cancellations - could not and would not accrue nights, points etc. If the crewmember was staying on their own i.e. paying on their own even if on...

    Right out of university I worked for Westin hotels for 12 years. Mostly in the rooms division. I can tell you that when Weston was Japanese owned, and also when it was owned by Starwood, airline crews - On stairs paid by the airline usually for layovers or cancellations - could not and would not accrue nights, points etc. If the crewmember was staying on their own i.e. paying on their own even if on a airline discount rate, then points and nights would accrue.

    I will tell you that pilots were never a problem… But flight attendants were horrible. If the shuttle bus from the airport was three minutes late they would come in screaming at The front desk. If a towel was missing they would write nasty comments… Flight attendants overall we’re a headache… And I can tell you many of time a flight attendant would call down to the desk and say that a gentleman caller would be coming by and to give them a key… So this doesn’t surprise me!

    But there must be more to the story. If UNITED paid for and covered the quarantine costs for the employee then yes I would imagine Marriott can see and report whatever they deem necessary. If the conditions of the stay where that heat were to be quarantined to his room and not leave… Then yes if Marriott witnesses the guest not following instructions, then yes UNITED or any employer in the situation should be informed.

  79. M Casey

    For those that said, if UA paid, then they had the right to know. How do you pay for your travel (hotel, rental cars, and airline)? Do you use a corporate card, get a corporate discount? Reimbursed?
    If you didn’t follow everyone of the hotel’s rules are you willing to accept his outcome?

    As for loyalty points...
    Working in sales, I’ve seen some pretty HUGE discounts, even better than airline staff rates,...

    For those that said, if UA paid, then they had the right to know. How do you pay for your travel (hotel, rental cars, and airline)? Do you use a corporate card, get a corporate discount? Reimbursed?
    If you didn’t follow everyone of the hotel’s rules are you willing to accept his outcome?

    As for loyalty points...
    Working in sales, I’ve seen some pretty HUGE discounts, even better than airline staff rates, where the loyalty rewards goes directly to the person - staying, driving, or flying. Interesting, some chains can refuse to offer loyalty rewards if you use a 3rd party website.

    Lastly, how will this end for the fired employee? If he wins... do you think Marriott will still honor his status, or points?

  80. James P McGovern

    I find it very sad that this United employee is forced to sue to get justice, and meanwhile, gets smeared by a sketchy story in desperate search of facts. It's impossible, based on what we read here, to accurately determine what happened. Must have been a boring day for Lucky to pursue this one, but he asked us to comment.

    So a United flight attendant contracts Covid. I'll make a wild assumption here and suggest...

    I find it very sad that this United employee is forced to sue to get justice, and meanwhile, gets smeared by a sketchy story in desperate search of facts. It's impossible, based on what we read here, to accurately determine what happened. Must have been a boring day for Lucky to pursue this one, but he asked us to comment.

    So a United flight attendant contracts Covid. I'll make a wild assumption here and suggest he got it from a passenger. He lands in Newark and is told by his employer that he's positive. United then essentially jails him in a hotel.
    Why is that fair? How did United know he tested positive? Did they test him before his trip and then let him fly the trip? If he's truly positive why couldn't they get him home? What if he died in that hotel? If he's actually staying there for the airline that would be a good reason for the hotel to call them, no?

    Instead, the hotel (if reporting is accurate), burns the guy for dubious reasons, and United spits out a 20-year employee like a pumpkin seed.
    And all of this is for our amusement?

    As for Marriott, they just gave me a reason to never stay there again. Would they do that to some sales rep on a business trip? Or is snitching and fabricating stories only reserved for airline crews?

    Keepin it real,
    Jimmy Mack

  81. Sam Vero

    Regardless of the truth this sadly reminds us of the "social police" in Cuba, in Nazi Germany and Soviet Union. Just for that the Hotel should be found guilty and pay big money to the guy. We are spiraling down to a very ugly place.

  82. Anonymous

    I think maybe if he was this kind of person the ,it would of been known after all of his hotel stays . 20. Yrs ? Plus. Maybe somebody doesn't want to give pension ?

  83. Ron

    "and there are HPAA concerns as well since we’re dealing with an individual’s health…"

    But the hotel is not a HIPAA Covered Entity (basically doctors, nurses, dentists, etc and insurance companies/workers and relates entities are), so I wouldn't see any HIPAA violation there

  84. Debbie Donella

    Marriott absolutely had quarantine guidelines in place as quickly as was possible and we were wearing masks in April and May. We also had strict policies on leaving your room, housekeeping services, garbage pickup, deliveries from the front desk and outside the property, as well as sanitation of areas after you left your room and under no circumstances were you able to go in public areas. Your employer could book a stay to quarantine and...

    Marriott absolutely had quarantine guidelines in place as quickly as was possible and we were wearing masks in April and May. We also had strict policies on leaving your room, housekeeping services, garbage pickup, deliveries from the front desk and outside the property, as well as sanitation of areas after you left your room and under no circumstances were you able to go in public areas. Your employer could book a stay to quarantine and cover the cost but you could not just walk in off the street and quarantine yourself. With that being said it is very possible the property has a contract with United and your damn Skippy if one of their employees acts out I'm calling HR.

  85. Gray

    Where does one begin with this? *whistles*

    Some of the (alleged) comments seem like there was a bad game of telephone. In particular, the claim "that Ray had told the hotel he wasn’t sick with coronavirus" might be something as innocuous as "Yeah, they told me I have to quarantine but I don't feel sick". "I have tested positive" doesn't necessarily map to "I am sick with". The former does not require symptoms while the...

    Where does one begin with this? *whistles*

    Some of the (alleged) comments seem like there was a bad game of telephone. In particular, the claim "that Ray had told the hotel he wasn’t sick with coronavirus" might be something as innocuous as "Yeah, they told me I have to quarantine but I don't feel sick". "I have tested positive" doesn't necessarily map to "I am sick with". The former does not require symptoms while the latter does. So I'd be inclined to suggest that reporting that (at least on its own) was questionable (at best) on the part of the hotel/their employee.

    Next, the status of policies is...well, a mess. Based on the statements, he was out of the hotel by April 24, 2020. Delaware didn't institute a mask mandate (as far as I can tell) until April 25, 2020. So there's no state law violation, and I believe that Marriott didn't have a formal corporate mask policy until mid-July. I can't speak to the hotel in question, but I feel like what happened here was a hotel reviewing remarks after-the-fact and perhaps mapping earlier behavior onto later policies.

    I'll admit, I'm also bothered by the idea of a franchisee being able to tattle on someone for vague complaints and alleged violations of policies which don't seem to have existed at the time. File this under "issues with various Marriott franchisees" (most of those being, admittedly, related to things like resort fees or slashed amenities).

    The other thought that I have is a big one (and IANAL TINLA applies here): The lawsuit seems flawed insofar as it does not either name the individual hotel or its owner as a defendant. I would have expected them (and/or the employee) to be named as a co-defendant.

    My best guess is that this is because the plaintiff went forum-shopping. The idea that a plaintiff based in Maryland could sue a hotel chain ALSO based in Maryland (Marriott's corporate HQ is in Bethesda, MD) for alleged misbehavior in Delaware in court in Illinois is kind-of silly. There's a line of logic there, but it feels tenuous to base the choice of forum on the fact that United's HQ is in Chicago when United is not a party to the case (at best some subopenas might go their way), but by the token of Marriott "happening to do business" in Illinois this suggests that he might as well sue in Hawaii (where Marriott also does business).

    Curiously, the case seems to avoid federal diversity jurisdiction as long as it's this guy vs Marriott since they're both "resident" in Maryland. If he had named the hotel or the employee as a defendant, then I'm guessing diversity jurisdiction might kick in and trigger easy removal to federal court.

    Of course, Marriott's deeper pockets probably play a role in a lot of these decisions (since if the hotel were joined as a defendant, a court might just decide that Marriott International isn't at fault and the franchisee might just "bankrupt out" after the last year or so).

    Also curious is that the /hotel/ (well, hotel chain) is the defendant and United is not joined with a wrongful dismissal complaint.

  86. Traveling Consultant

    Not a lawyer, but if he was there under corporate rate, regardless of whether or not United booked it, Marriott was likely authorized to contact United. As a consultant to various large companies, I've had to sign documents with several clients that, in part, indicate that I acknowledge that using the corporate rate makes me a representative of the company (regardless of who's paying) and as such hotel may notify my client about any issues....

    Not a lawyer, but if he was there under corporate rate, regardless of whether or not United booked it, Marriott was likely authorized to contact United. As a consultant to various large companies, I've had to sign documents with several clients that, in part, indicate that I acknowledge that using the corporate rate makes me a representative of the company (regardless of who's paying) and as such hotel may notify my client about any issues. One client made it clear that the first question they would ask if a hotel contacted them was if I was there on the company's contract... If I was not, they would politely end the call.

  87. Dre

    You can't be an A hole when on company business. Stupid

  88. KEVIN

    If he stays in his room as required for public health and safety, then this whole thing wouldn’t happen in the first place. Even without camera, I say something Is off with this guy. Hotel staffs is extremely unlikely to make up stuff such as he was in the lobby without mask on if he was actually quarantine in his room like he’s suppose to be. Fault started with this guy for sure. But I...

    If he stays in his room as required for public health and safety, then this whole thing wouldn’t happen in the first place. Even without camera, I say something Is off with this guy. Hotel staffs is extremely unlikely to make up stuff such as he was in the lobby without mask on if he was actually quarantine in his room like he’s suppose to be. Fault started with this guy for sure. But I guess the question is however bad his action is, does it merit a termination? I’m sure United HR dept have consulted with their highly paid attorneys before sending him packing.

  89. Jacky

    Do not know about this particular case, but in general, requiring covid-infected people to quarantine in hotels seems like a not particularly smart idea, similar to sending sick patients to nursing homes. Whenever possible, people should quarantine at home, vs in crowded hotels where other guests could potentially get infected even via ventilation systems (there were documented cases that it's possible). Sounds like it's something you want to do to spread the disease, not stop...

    Do not know about this particular case, but in general, requiring covid-infected people to quarantine in hotels seems like a not particularly smart idea, similar to sending sick patients to nursing homes. Whenever possible, people should quarantine at home, vs in crowded hotels where other guests could potentially get infected even via ventilation systems (there were documented cases that it's possible). Sounds like it's something you want to do to spread the disease, not stop it.

  90. FlyGuy

    Answering a question you posted early on...Depending on the hotel and the contract that they set up with the Union, points are often given to the traveling flight crew. At the very least, we are often given credit for the stay if points are not given. Remember, most of the time, the hotel is chosen from a list by the Union for the Flight Attendants and Pilots, and it is chosen based on the agreed...

    Answering a question you posted early on...Depending on the hotel and the contract that they set up with the Union, points are often given to the traveling flight crew. At the very least, we are often given credit for the stay if points are not given. Remember, most of the time, the hotel is chosen from a list by the Union for the Flight Attendants and Pilots, and it is chosen based on the agreed upon terms. At the legacy airlines, points are typically given. For the regional airlines and low cost carriers, it is hit-or-miss. (Southwest Airlines even negotiates a drink discount at the hotel bar for the flight crews. That is why most every crew member will tell the bartender that they work for Southwest, or ask for the JetBlue discount in the Caribbean).

  91. Goforride

    If UA is paying for the room, he's on the clock. That is longstanding policy and is no surprise to anyone.

    Moreover, he actually gets fired, it's after a long and tortured union process.

  92. Geist

    He would have been there under United’s dime since he was on a work trip when he contracted covid and also probably contracted it because of his employment. While there he is a representative of the company so if there is any issues then yes Marriott would be well within their means to report it to his company. I definitely don’t think a person should be fired without due process, but I have no idea...

    He would have been there under United’s dime since he was on a work trip when he contracted covid and also probably contracted it because of his employment. While there he is a representative of the company so if there is any issues then yes Marriott would be well within their means to report it to his company. I definitely don’t think a person should be fired without due process, but I have no idea if there was any kind of actual investigation. What I am definitely against is me being a constant representative of a company even in my off time. So if for example he was on vacation on his own time and dime I do not think any of this would be appropriate

  93. The Original Donna

    I wonder if there was video of him blocking exits and throwing things? I’m always a little shocked at the bad behavior of people in public places. Who does this? Ok, so he didn’t wear a mask, not a huge deal that would merit being fired but the other stuff is clearly a bit crazy. If United was paying for his quarantine stay, I think they have a solid case if the claims are substantiated. If not, I believe the case is a lot weaker.

  94. Lajuan Clark

    Hotel Manager here,

    I've had to deal with this issue more than once. We contract with Southwest Airlines and sometimes, their employees break policies. If Southwest Airlines is paying for their employees' stay, whether it is overflow, quarantine, layover or whatever, we attempt to get understanding with said employee first. If it continues, we have no choice but to notify the employer. They are representatives of the company. The reason for the employee being there...

    Hotel Manager here,

    I've had to deal with this issue more than once. We contract with Southwest Airlines and sometimes, their employees break policies. If Southwest Airlines is paying for their employees' stay, whether it is overflow, quarantine, layover or whatever, we attempt to get understanding with said employee first. If it continues, we have no choice but to notify the employer. They are representatives of the company. The reason for the employee being there is irrelevant.

    If the employee is paying for his/her own stay, we still attempt to get understanding with said employee first. If it continues, the employee would be asked to vacate the property. The reason for the employee being there is again irrelevant.

    Keep in mind that this happened April 2020. Mandatory mask mandate had already been in effect, same within the airline.

  95. pelican55

    FYI >> airline employees always earn elite nights when commuting the night prior to their trip and spend money out of their pocket... and sometimes, we have to stay night after the trip, as there's no flight to commute back home.

  96. Tom Dooley

    Depends on who was paying for his stay (and how'd he even GET from EWR to Wilmington, safely?), but there i a thing called 'contractual interference'. If the hotel/management group intentionally sought out his employer-- and there are HPAA concerns as well since we're dealing with an individual's health...

    So, it's far from clear cut as to why the hotel's beef wasn't with the guest, but instead with the guest's employer- who he had a binding contract with.

  97. Rjb

    They are both awful companies.he should be grateful he doesn’t work for United any longer.

  98. echino

    What a sloppily written lawsuit!

  99. Tyler

    Probably fake, there’s no such thing as lifetime titanium status. Only silver gold and platinum at Marriott, you cannot be lifetime titanium or ambassador status.

  100. Fly4Food

    We do not know what Mr. Ray's employment file looks like. Was he already on some progressive step of discipline? Was this just the final straw for his employer?

    There is so much missing from this article to make a fair judgement call.

  101. D3kingg

    Oh it’s just an FA for some reason I thought it was a Captain.
    Fact ; the stay at home mandates , mask requirements, and quarantines proved to be ineffective against COVID.
    Case at point Texas now has zero COVID deaths after re opening and ending the mask mandates two months ago.
    The FA was not on duty while staying at the Marriott. Therefore he should not have been terminated by his employer.

  102. Karen Wu

    @Travelingnewyorker This is NOT true. I know my buddy earned his titanium status through his work layovers. We just talked about it yesterday. He still needs 3 more ‘stays’ to renew his status for next year. Only a handful of hotels that would allow this and Renaissance Newark Airport and Sheraton Honolulu to name a few.

  103. K Kelly

    There is a reason his union did not take this to Arbitration.

  104. JS

    If I were the manager at the Marriott, I would've done whatever I could to get this blowhard to behave when he's risking the life of my staff and customers and possibly the bottom line of my hotel if an outbreak starts. Calling his employer, who arranged for the stay and who has a lot more power to get the knucklehead in line sounds about right to me.

  105. dan

    Security camera's don't lie. Lets hear from everyone.

  106. Henry

    My take on this, if it is business trip paid by United, I think it is reasonable to report to UA, however, if it is a personal trip, MRT should not relate this to his employer even that man did so bad, as ultimately it was a personal thing, instead, should go to public health or legal authorities depending on what that matter belongs to at that given time.

  107. Chel B

    Most hotels have video monitoring...the truth will come out.

    I remember in the early days, Airline security would check our rooms, and trash for items from the plane...

    My feeling? If you're on a trip, you are representing your employer. Act with excellence!

  108. SD

    I'm still not clear on why Marriott was e-mailing United, even if United were footing the stay. If a guest/patron is exhibiting questionable behavior, it's up to the health and/or police authorities to determine if someone is being egregiously out of line. Whether he was conducting the bad behavior or not, his employer is not the proper authority. If it wasn't bad enough to call the cops, then why was it bad enough to tell his employer?

  109. Concerned

    Why would you stay at a hotel if you know you've test positive for Covid. Mind you you have to be there for 14 days and you are exposing employees. Think of the front desk and Room Attendants. AFTER 5 days without service they have the right to do a wellness.

    When a employee as contracted Covid the employees are given written and email notifications. They are not by law told whom that person is.

  110. S

    I’m a flight attendant for a US airline. It really depends on the airline and hotel franchise. At our airline, we earn elite nights and sometime points at a limited amount of Hilton properties.

    As far as COVID quarantine protocols, if a flight crew was notified by the airline they’ve been exposed or tested positive out of base, the airline would put them up in a hotel for the quarantine period, usually extending a food...

    I’m a flight attendant for a US airline. It really depends on the airline and hotel franchise. At our airline, we earn elite nights and sometime points at a limited amount of Hilton properties.

    As far as COVID quarantine protocols, if a flight crew was notified by the airline they’ve been exposed or tested positive out of base, the airline would put them up in a hotel for the quarantine period, usually extending a food credit per day. The flight attendant would get a key card from the front desk that would only work once to open the door. If you needed a card re-keyed, the hotel would know you left your room, breaking quarantine requirements, and would notify the airline that you broke quarantine rules.

  111. Bill

    " if the latter is the case, I suppose United would have more of a right to know what’s going on, though it’s definitely a blurry line"
    - Umm not really seeing the blurry line here at all. If a company is booking employees into a property and that employee starts jeopardizing the safety of the staff and other guests the hotel has every right to notify the company. Actually given the fact this...

    " if the latter is the case, I suppose United would have more of a right to know what’s going on, though it’s definitely a blurry line"
    - Umm not really seeing the blurry line here at all. If a company is booking employees into a property and that employee starts jeopardizing the safety of the staff and other guests the hotel has every right to notify the company. Actually given the fact this alleged behavior was happening in PUBLIC he had zero expectation in privacy and the hotel is free to calI his employer to complain. If he was acting this way I am totally fine with him being fired. His whole lawsuit is basically claiming they are lying about everything. Does that make any kind of sense at all?

  112. Lexi

    I don’t necessarily think it’s right, but people get fired for this kind of thing all the time—just not in this particular setting. If an employer sees someone being rude and inappropriate online, they sometimes terminate because the employee’s actions don’t align with the company’s values or whatever. This sounds akin to that.

    Assuming Marriott is correct, I can’t imagine how frustrated and scared their employees were in having to deal with this guy, and...

    I don’t necessarily think it’s right, but people get fired for this kind of thing all the time—just not in this particular setting. If an employer sees someone being rude and inappropriate online, they sometimes terminate because the employee’s actions don’t align with the company’s values or whatever. This sounds akin to that.

    Assuming Marriott is correct, I can’t imagine how frustrated and scared their employees were in having to deal with this guy, and if he was there on United’s dime, that’s a totally poor representation of the airline.. if he was on his own dime, then calling him out was out of line.

  113. Segments

    Another question... if United notified Mr Ray that he tested positive after landing at EWR, why did he quarantine at a hotel more than 100 miles away in Wilmington, DE? Was his companion traveling with him and therefore also quarantining due to proximity to someone who tested positive?

  114. Jetjock64

    The hotel had information on an airline employee that the airline had a right to know. It matters little how the hotel learned of the employee's conduct and who was paying for the room. What matters is that the hotel was reporting on conduct it probably reasonably believed to be detrimental to the airline and quite possibly to the public. You can think of the hotel's act as a public service of the type that...

    The hotel had information on an airline employee that the airline had a right to know. It matters little how the hotel learned of the employee's conduct and who was paying for the room. What matters is that the hotel was reporting on conduct it probably reasonably believed to be detrimental to the airline and quite possibly to the public. You can think of the hotel's act as a public service of the type that can almost never be successfully sued upon. An exception would be where the plaintiff is able to prove that the hotel was either lying or mistaken--probably not likely in this case if the hotel has documentation and witnesses. Ex-airline pilot, lawyer.

  115. AC

    2 issues here (both of which work against him and will likely have this thrown out) -

    1. He was a representative of United (likely in a room booked by United since that is almost always the way flight crew rooms are handled). They didn't spy on him but simply reported to his employer (who he was representing) that he was causing issues.

    2. There is a concept of contributory negligence. To the extent he...

    2 issues here (both of which work against him and will likely have this thrown out) -

    1. He was a representative of United (likely in a room booked by United since that is almost always the way flight crew rooms are handled). They didn't spy on him but simply reported to his employer (who he was representing) that he was causing issues.

    2. There is a concept of contributory negligence. To the extent he was responsible for the situation either by getting COVID (don't know the circumstances but it will come up in the deposition) and/or his actions at the hotel any judge would easily rule he is primarily responsible for the situation. That coupled with item 1 above (no real right of privacy in public and especially when you represent a company) and this is a meritless lawsuit.

  116. Alan Robert Young

    This sounds so very much like the early years of HIV.
    Regarding his alleged behavior, it is a concern for the public health authority. However, a flight crew member blocking "exits" and "throwing things" just sounds fabricated in this instance.
    No, he should not have been separated from employment for this - I think the actual cause and rational for separation is the real story.

  117. ChrisC

    SEM

    No I won't say it because the situations are totally different.

  118. MW

    Former airline pilot here...when on duty (and you're technically on duty when the airline is paying for your accommodations) anything you do at a hotel that doesn't represent the airline well can be used against you. We had people get fired for taking towels and pillows that were reported by the hotel to the airline.

    And yes, we can generally get rewards points on our stays. Most hotels were good about this. Probably gets...

    Former airline pilot here...when on duty (and you're technically on duty when the airline is paying for your accommodations) anything you do at a hotel that doesn't represent the airline well can be used against you. We had people get fired for taking towels and pillows that were reported by the hotel to the airline.

    And yes, we can generally get rewards points on our stays. Most hotels were good about this. Probably gets them some business by having loyal fans that connect with hundreds of travelers a day.

  119. Ryan

    To those of you aircrew saying “never “ earn points or stay credits … false. I am still in the regionals but SOME hotels credit points for stay on the airline master bill , some don’t.
    Wyndham - almost always
    Marriott - 25% of the time
    Hilton / Hyatt - 0%
    IHG - rare but it happens

  120. SEM

    @ChrisC

    Say it with me, hypocrite...

    Here, I'll go slowly for you, H Y P O C R I T E . . .

  121. Craig

    As indicated, many unanswered questions. If in fact the airline paid for the room, then said guest can be seen as a agent for the airline and the hotel has every right to notify the payor.

  122. Bertram Glenn Moshier

    Marriott lawyers will be reaming the hotel management and employees a new one. They opened the hotel up to both negative publicity and, obviously, a potentially expensive settlement or judgment.

    When I traveled, even on the company's time, it was never the responsibility of the hotel to act as a baby sitter or provide the status on my behavior. Reports on behavior, more than likely, would come from fellow employees.

    Only time will tell the...

    Marriott lawyers will be reaming the hotel management and employees a new one. They opened the hotel up to both negative publicity and, obviously, a potentially expensive settlement or judgment.

    When I traveled, even on the company's time, it was never the responsibility of the hotel to act as a baby sitter or provide the status on my behavior. Reports on behavior, more than likely, would come from fellow employees.

    Only time will tell the tale. For privacy and guest rights, I hope the plaintiff wins (either in court or out of court settlement). He shouldn't take a "stop bothering us amount," but one to pay for rest of his United career (salary, bonuses, full benefits, plus lawyer fees, and punitive damages).

    Please, keep us up to date on how this case proceeds.

  123. Nonrev

    United may be involved because he might have used a corporate discount code provided to United employees for leisure travel.... because of that potential link, perhaps Marriott reached out to United as he was utilizing a benefit Marriott granted to employees of United.

    If you use a benefit provided by your employer (eg United), then you're representing that employer. So bad behavior = your employer may be notified. Simple as that.

  124. Denise M

    If the member is staying as a representative of the company (which most road warriors have in their company handbook) the company has a right to terminate the employee for not projecting a good image. Is it the nice thing to do to tell on your guest? no, is it in United's travel policy, probably; since they are paying for your stay. I am pretty sure that this was a contracted stay, I would guess...

    If the member is staying as a representative of the company (which most road warriors have in their company handbook) the company has a right to terminate the employee for not projecting a good image. Is it the nice thing to do to tell on your guest? no, is it in United's travel policy, probably; since they are paying for your stay. I am pretty sure that this was a contracted stay, I would guess that the staff had little recourse but to report. I have spent years as a road warrior, and being "sick" on the road is awful, but; you just grin and bare it. If you act in a hotel with disregard for others around you then it will eventually come home to roost, one way or another.

  125. SeaK

    Unless he's paying for his stay then he's not Marriott's customer, United is, and they have every right to contact them regarding behavior of a guest on a United reservation, just as they would contact you or I if we booked a room for a friend and they started misbehaving and didn't respond to staff.
    The guy was acting inappropriately, he continued to after being told to stop, good riddance. His lawsuit isn't going anywhere.

  126. Ole

    I don’t think we know the full picture. However, based in what is presented here, if United did pay for his quarantine, then they absolutely had a right to know if he was following the rules/guidelines. Imagine the news headline, if one or more Marriott guests or employees would have died after getting infected by him.

  127. ChrisC

    Just because it's not mentioned in the law suit it does not mean the hotel didn't contact their local health authorities
    .
    An absence of mention is not an absence of action.

    @D3Kingg - so what. difference case. Cuomo was with his family at their home not in the lobby of a hotel throwing a strop.

  128. Joe

    Like others, even if it's true, that doesn't sound appropriate.
    I don't think the termination itself is wrongful (if the allegations are true), but I think Marriott mightve been in the wrong here to contact United.
    Let's say that instead of Marriott contacting United, a video went viral exposing his alleged antics, and United decided to fire him over that... there'd be nobody to sue.

  129. Ian

    My dad is UA capt. and has lifetime Titanium from leisure travels. Working crews do not collect nights or $pend towards elite status. That's a fact. When traveling for work, he gives hotels his loyalty info insofar as they may extend lounge/breakfast/upgrade. YMMV (I don't think the hotel is under any obligation to extend elite perks to people staying on negotiated/contract rates).

  130. Mike

    Dear Marriott,

    Snitches get stitches

  131. Esquiar

    I feel like there’s not enough facts to know who was right, but this is proof that it pays to be nice. Jerks sure do have bad luck…

  132. Eskimo

    Let's not get too fixated on the lifetime Titanium status not that should it be relevant at all to start with.
    20+ years with nonrev benefit doesn't make it impossible to earn Lifetime Titanium on your own. Remember pre-merger requirements don't have years as a requirement just nights+points.
    FWIW, maybe he spent a previous furlough travelling nonrev full-time.

  133. Travelingnewyorker

    Lucky - United flight attendants do not ever earn Marriott Bonvoy Status on work trips - it’s part of the contract United has in place with the hotels as it gets them lower group rates. I know this *for sure* as an insider. So, just an FYI, and to be crystal clear, he earned titanium status on his own - NOT from work stays. I am 100% certain of this

  134. Duck Ling

    I am aircrew and we definitely do NOT get elite nights during our stays during layovers with Marriott....nor any other hotel program.

    Some of the hotel programs (like Marriott) will still extend certain benefits to top tier members during layovers (such as free breakfast) and we can generally earn points on any additional spend we make in the hotel (ie meals, room service). But in terms of our nights qualifying as 'stays' nope.

  135. SMR

    Quarantining an employee is extremely out of line. Wouldn’t you say?! God help us all the day our employees can quarantine and confine is. Shame on all involved (including Ray) but he shouldn’t be fired.

  136. Brad

    The union will get his job back. If drunk pilots can resume flying then this case will be resolved quickly.

  137. D3kingg

    Wrongful termination. Not saying I agree with how the guy acted.
    Remember CNN anchor Chris Cuomo tested positive for Covid 19 and was out and about with his family building a new home in the Hamptons without wearing a mask. Why wasn’t he fired from CNN ?

  138. Kevin

    This should be entertaining. At least Mr Ray had a gentleman caller to help pass the time! :)

  139. Eskimo

    What do you make of this lawsuit?

    It makes lawyers rich and everyone else lose.

  140. endre

    throwing popcorn into microwave and getting salted butter... this will be interesting

Featured Comments Load all 140 comments Most helpful comments ( as chosen by the OMAAT community ).

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James P McGovern

@steve You failed big time to keep it real. If you took a few minutes to read all the posts you’ll see people insulted me personally for my “opinion.” It is my “response” to them that doesn’t go down well with folks like you. Why are you taking it so personal? Guilty conscience? That’s your problem. Sorry if I distracted you with the truth but it’s not about me. It’s about Jonathon. And the truth is you don’t know what happened. My wife of 31 years and my two grown children find it hilarious that you’ve painted me as Jonathon’s F*** Buddy. What a class act you’re not. My gay and lesbian friends are rolling on the floor laughing at your ignorance. You’ve proved my point better than anybody so far. Thank you! There are a few cowards on this blog. I predict you’re the next. Every time I’ve called bullshit on them they squirm and quiver like gagging maggots in a garbage can and disappear off the blog never to come back and respond. Why? They fear sunlight and disinfectant. It’s a short life span for them if I’m around. They either die in their own pus or move on to another garbage can. Which type will you be? Keepin it real, Jimmy Mack

KevyB

Obviously United put him up there, otherwise Marriott wouldn't have just magically known who to call. I'm sure it's a hotel United uses all the time and there's some sort of procedure in place for Marriott to call when there are problems, like someone trashing a room or stealing items, or breaking quarantine. And I'm sure United has a code of conduct for its employees when staying in these hotels, just as they would for employees in their workplace. Also, ya think Marriott doesn't have cameras EVERYWHERE? So good luck with this lawsuit...

Steve

Jimmy Mack,...with all due respect, you do hurl insults , singling people out. Try reading forums/ threads such as this one as a way for people to simply express opinions without confrontation. You might enjoy it! I personally enjoy reading a variety of opinions. I find your extreme “vested” interest in this matter to be a bit obsessive, as you’ve returned to this conversation on numerous occasions to make personal attacks. It makes me wonder if you are the unnamed “gentleman” friend, a family member, or just a “F*** buddy?” Then, I guess I would understand why you are so passionate about an article that most of us are commenting on based on the hypothetical, ( with little to no facts), but you seem to have access and privy to facts about this story that are not found in this article for us to read. The fact that you keep returning to this thread really makes me wonder what exactly is your “vested” interest? Just keeping it real...Steve

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